It's a good set up
#assassination
rigid mango
if you have it
Just depends what your other pieces can become 😄
if you go on raidbots and go to to top gear and screenshot
I can help
charred lantern
i have the set but instead of 1 Ttk i have Scent of Blood dunno if thats good
okay
thatd be great
uhm should i post here ?
solemn meadow
btw I have 3x shrouded since I am progressing Cabal can I just use those for 8/9 aswell?
charred lantern
these are the pieces i have
rigid mango
You can use 3x shrouded for first 6
and be really well of
last 3 bosses are imo rly MA heavy fights
solemn meadow
cuz reforging is kinda meh doing that all the time
and I will tank jaina anyway
Our tank left 
I see thx
charred lantern
xD
charred lantern
i see
charred lantern
yea im trying to get bettr ilvs
thank you tho
do i need more crit for EB setup ?
charred lantern
i see great thanks guys!
modern forge
!auras
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
honest lily
Why do people in some videos use garrote, rupture and then garrote again instead garrote, garrote, rupture?
rigid mango
In what situation?
crisp steppe
on singletarget?
lament dove
ah never mind
vast forum
there is no situation where garrote garrote rupture is better
garrote rupture garrote prevents CP overcap in opener and allows the longest possible empowered garrote
honest lily
dont u get more combo points for ur initial rupture then?
solid nova
?
worldly iron
you don't lose damage by doing a 3p rupture
honest lily
Oooh
honest lily
So the damage numbers on rupture are just higher because it's a longer duration
thanks haha
crisp steppe
garrote rupture garrote will not waste any combopoints. it will give you longer uptime on the empowered garrote dot.
its slightly less energy efficient on the rupture. but rupture costs barely anthing
vast forum
you overcap on pull anyway
honest lily
It makes sense now ^^
crisp steppe
yeah
fading wigeon
Does this mean three combo ruptures are fine after opener?
strange python
Hi guys i have 406 ilv and i have 3x DD and 3x NP my stats are 20 % crit, 22,51 % haste, 4% vers, 35,63% Mastery. And I'm simming with 24k is that ok for my gear?
dark crag
true sky
I know outlaw is the king of m+ but how is sin on dungeons?
dark crag
It's as good as outlaw if you have the needed azerite and good crit/mastery values
lean thorn
Hey guys
I'm coming back after half a year break, was playing only on the start of the expansion. During that time I was mainly jumping between Sub and Outlaw and loved them both.
Now I'm really looking towards assa but after trying it out for 1 night of dungeons I feel extremely weak on aoe.
I read the guides and I know the general rule - apply garrote to 3 targers from stelth with subterfuge, apply Rupture to as many targets as possible etc.
However after the (mostly) straightforward aoe rotation from other 2 specs I always feel like I'm not doing enough, especially if the poison bomb doesn't proc.
Is there a guide/in-depth thread with all the tips for assa aoe that I can learn from?
Ty in advance
strange python
@lean thorn watch him: https://www.twitch.tv/incarnated
solid nova
Echoing blades.
strange python
he is a good Assa m+ player.
cinder shuttle
Echoing Blades trait fixes everything
cinder shuttle
aye
dark crag
Keep enough bleeds for a beefy energy reg, helicopter spin to win
Use envenom for prio target dmg
lean thorn
The trait may be the problem as I obviously don't have any assa gear atm
cinder shuttle
yep
lean thorn
Ty guys will try to grind for it and see if it'll be better
cinder shuttle
Wish you the greatest of luck finding some good azerite pieces!
lean thorn
Thanks ❤
tropic ocean
@true sky outlaw and assa are pretty equal it comes down to the individual controlling the character (and the gear obivously)
I did ur 14? i think earlier and outdpsed similar geared outlaw by flat 7k
if you look at streams where theres similar assa and outlaws in key (e.g. seli or flawless) the dps difference isnt really big
but the "art/quality of dmg" varies
lethal heart
assa and outlaw dps output can be same if assa goes for pad traits
Outlaw aoe and st traits are always same tho
royal lantern
it deepens on the key/dungeon/how high the key is
+14 key/tyran week? the outlaw will probably pull much higher numbers in most packs cus the stuff is dead before you can start the FoK spamm
buoyant coyote
would MP be better then EB at any point
I want to try something new kinda gettinb bored with same talents for all of bfa XD
hollow stone
Mp is passive. Not sure how that makes gameplay more fun. That being said, its not THAT behind ep so if you wanna do it and dont care about being optimal, do it @buoyant coyote
buoyant coyote
i care alot about being optimal :S
hollow stone
Well 🤷♂️
uncut maple
is Master Poisoner better for heroic BoD most fights? or elaborate planning for sure
cobalt pelican
master poisoner is not better at.. anything
buoyant coyote
Man I wished we had more options on our talents...playing with the same talent since the exp started is just so boring after awhile
have choices that matters....but i guess not
Right now its EB or no dps at all
royal lantern
its better in pvp
buoyant coyote
cobalt pelican
that largely depends
royal lantern
no dps at all....over react much?
buoyant coyote
I mean i lose 2k dps with Blindside
royal lantern
EB doesnt give you 8k dps by chosing it lol
buoyant coyote
Which sounds like a fun ability when reading it
royal lantern
cus blindside is 100%shit and flawed by desing
buoyant coyote
and the fact we didnt get anythign at 120 is mingblowing to me, I just want something new and fresh
cobalt pelican
play a new class then
honestly it's not a rogue specific problem that classes don't have that many meaningfulchoices to make
buoyant coyote
I would if...I wouldnt have to grind another neck to 50 and get mythic gear on that one aswell
royal lantern
wtf are you doing
world first pushing?
neck lvl goes up by itself without ever touching a single WQ or island
buoyant coyote
Well my raid leader wont take my 407 hunter with 32 neck 😛
royal lantern
then gear your hunter up for the next tier
royal lantern
that is soon
royal lantern
cus all gear you get now will have no use anyway
royal lantern
my frking herbalism alt is 47, and the only way he gets ap is by the mission board
buoyant coyote
@tropic ocean You also gotta keep in mind if i go my hunter thats a huge downgrade in dps until I get gear + correct traits again
buoyant coyote
for mythic
royal lantern
sup
desert pelican
Spamming fok instead of using Tempest is a thing now with eb?
tropic ocean
yes
visual quartz
padding in M+ isnt a thing, things have to die. Padding is watching a shadw priest 2target entire concalve fight....
desert pelican
Just use tempest for dot uptime?
strange python
is TC worth?
tropic ocean
^can't answer that
strange python
it sims higher for me.
tropic ocean
in general its a good trait
strange python
compared to NP
tropic ocean
if you are not at 60%+ for a lot of time its bad, obviously
while np is just guaranteed dmg
personally i'd take np over tc anytime
for st at least
strange python
yeah i think so aswell
royal lantern
EB sound intesifies
tropic ocean
i need some wa that plays unreal tournament sounds when mobs die to eb
brisk frost
why do you speak like it's cool to play suboptimal spec for m+ lul
shy axle
because it ain`t suboptimal. It is different. iirc it even has a higher dmg-potential -Outlaw is just easier to gear, definetly very very good AOE. It is just, a lil nerf to outlaw and everyone and their mom is going to switch back to assa and state "ah lul outlaw suboptimal"
royal lantern
for like 99%of all groups it doesnt make a difference if you play outlaw or sin
like really
tropic ocean
even in high keys its not a big difference, it depends on your groups goal
royal lantern
the only reason outlaw is so dominat in the MDI is because they pull 1000000 add packs at once
tropic ocean
and chain 24//
visual quartz
yeah MDI is a different world that 99% of normal players dont live in
royal lantern
in some weeks sin is probably even better cus it has a aoe slow, wich helps with kiting if you dont have another good aoe slow avaible
+pull silence is good too
tropic ocean
it also heavily depends on group
in this week in pug
you'll smash outlaw, as outlaw can't indefinetly sustain aoe
at least at my lvl 2,3~2,5k ish groups
brisk frost
like you did on the screenshot above?
brisk frost
and yeah yeah. assa can do good on m+ too, but its just stupid to say that they beat outlaw, otherwise MDI wouldent be full of outlaws for example
royal lantern
scroll up
and read wath i said like 2min ago
no normal group plays like they do in the MDI, and pulls 2 packs with reaping into bosses
brisk frost
imo its still better to compare specs on optimal teamcomps and routes, rather than "normal groups" AD 10 where people just play with what they get
you can kick asses with feral there but it doesnt make it great
brisk frost
cant deny that, without charts and statistics its just my opinion which is kinda bla bla, but dont really care that much 😁
tropic ocean
brisk frost
cobalt pelican
there's nothing on warcraftlogs to indicate the specs are particularly even, and generally people in this channel overrate ttks 'non pad prio dmg' pretty significantly
that said using mdi comps for comparisons is just kinda pointless
and either spec is perfectly fine for the majority of situations
royal lantern
i just dont like the howl'' why play a suboptimal spec lul'' thing cus its stupid
cobalt pelican
i don't think he said why play it more like
this channel gives off a very sort of
hipster vibe to outsiders
the comment is still probably unwarranted but it's not hard to see where he's coming frmo
dam chek meo ut outlaw sheeplees getting phoont [dabs]
royal lantern
naah, i dont hate outlaw or something like that, i dont like the gameplay myself, but thats pretty much all
+the community shit you get sometimes for not playing outlaw sometimes
(well, ingame, not here)
brisk frost
the comment was like 90% joke, i really dont care which spec people plays, because be4 really high level it really doesnt matter
and im not a outlaw fanboy, only play it on m+'s because i "have to"
tropic ocean
@brisk frost points =//= dmg just saying
obtuse cedar
Hey, how would you sim for Restless cabal ?
obtuse cedar
Yeah thought of working with 2 targets but didn't know wich fight style I'd chose
Thanks for the help tho
tribal marlin
Well running 3xSS 3xNP is the key for this fight
you want to do big damage during your vendetta which should be lined up with the 9xStacks
obtuse cedar
Don't have SS NP shoulders, that's why I wanted to sim stuff
Using NP TC instead with heed
tribal marlin
seems to be a good choice
If you want to "maximise" vendetta damage trough sims you can sim 2 target 30sec.
obtuse cedar
I'll try it, thank you very much
tropic ocean
MikihisaToday at 7:51 PM
"suboptimal spec" they said
FoKing for life
think he refered to #subtlety
strange python
Are gorak'tul shoulders good for Sin M+ ? I cant figure out what to use w/ them, taking Blightborne and Shrouded from the shoulders limits my abilty to take 2xttk and doesn't allow me to take 3xttf at all
rigid mango
They're good
tropic ocean
yes
flint jetty
It's a lot of vers and it lines up with Vendetta so you just macro them together and don't have to worry about it.
coarse plank
Okay.
flint jetty
Also unlike GCB you don't have to worry about positioning
coarse plank
So it’s normal that I’m still running Plumage and Dice
flint jetty
I had been using GCB for quite sometime since it was my best option next to dice or spyglass, but I got a 415 Lurker's with socket right after killing Jaina. Excited to get into raid with it since I wont have to worry as much about standing in the galecallers puddle.
ionic dome
How garbage is My'das Talisman.? It still simming lower than my Plumage and it's literally 25 iLevs higher and socketted in comparison to my Plumage
Is that normal, or is Talisman just ass
lost horizon
Talisman is complete ass
ionic dome
Fackk. Okay. Thanks
rigid mango
Smth like that
ionic dome
K ty
sick cradle
Does azerite powers scale with mastery?
rigid mango
If you're referring to NP, yes
sick cradle
Was thinking of both NP and DitB
sick cradle
ok thanks
wispy iron
any at least top 150-200 guild looking for rogue ? I'm 9/9M pre-nerf Jaina (417 item lvl), if so DM me to discuss details 😃
rigid mango
Not the place
Go to recruitment if you can find something there, if not there are places that aren't this discord.
civic palm
_>
coarse plank
When soaking on JFM, do I just Cloak and run through them?
rigid mango
Yep
coarse plank
Okay thank you
rigid mango
You'll still get the debuff
coarse plank
Yeah I did it and it still shot me in the air
rigid mango
that increases damage, so you can't face tank any outside of cloak
coarse plank
I must’ve timed it wrong lol
rigid mango
Yeah I mean, just use it before running in and no issue should be had 😄
coarse plank
😂😀
rigid mango
@glacial jasper no you don't need 3x but it's a good way to keep up in dmg to outlaws if that's the way you wanna play
glacial jasper
So long as I’m not a wet noodle on a boss fights works for me”once I get some dagger”
Look for best of Both worlds you might say, not sure is possible but then you would look 3 NP 3 EB
glacial jasper
Or.. 1 np 2 dble dose as I’m sure part of the sun strength of NP is from energy regent which doesn’t stack
modest tendon
For mythic +, 3xEB and 3xTTK, do you think this could work? Just interested to see if you could make up the damage without any ss
obtuse cedar
Mainly the dmg tbh
glacial jasper
Going full bore aoe seems shitty, there are plenty of times you need some single target
rigid mango
I don't really think it's an argument
yeah
you go ttk
and ss
to get st/cleave
DD/NP are hot garbage for m+
because DD counteracts EB and NP is barely ever used to its full potential outside of bosses
bleak spoke
SS isn’t bad for ST
rigid mango
whicih means very suboptimal trait
bleak spoke
Why do people think that
rigid mango
idk
rigid mango
yeah obviously
tall basalt
but it isn’t bad with only one target
bleak spoke
SS is significantly stronger than any trait with 2 or 3 targets but it’s not significantly weaker than any trait on one target
tall basalt
^
bleak spoke
I.E in kings rest ss is probably the strongest trait full stop
You run subterfuge in dungeons regardless because the iron wire silence is what makes assa insane
crisp steppe
it also starts you off with great energy regen
vast forum
SS is better than DD and NP on short ST fights
visual quartz
yeah non tyranical weks with 3SS the burst is nuts
vast forum
i know 13 keys are not a good reference point but i just did a 13 ToS with 3xSS, 2xEB, TC and i did 38k dps on 3rd boss cuz it died in under a minute
fresh coyote
Does 3x SS and 3x EB work for 20+ tyrannical? Just switching from outlaw
vast forum
yes
rigid mango
It does
vast forum
but TTK might net you some more value if you pull reaping on top of bosses or if it's a dungeon with a bunch of mobs with different health pools
rigid mango
buit I wouldn't recommend going full aoe blast
for those higher keys
swapping out 1-2 ss's for ttk's
will probably net you more valuable daamge
fresh coyote
Better to swap out SS than EB?
rigid mango
yeah probably
vast forum
if you do reaping without bosses and if it's a dungeon with almost no priotarget
rigid mango
3EB isjust like
vast forum
3xSS and 3xEB is probably best
vast forum
i also wouldn't recomment TTK to people who aren't as familiar to assa, as it requires understanding of when to envenom and when not to
rigid mango
that's also true
vast forum
with 3xSS 3xEB, you can blast without thinking much
just don't overwrite emp garrotes and spam fok while keeping enough bleeds up to be energy positive
fresh coyote
Is there a writeup somewhere about optimal ttk usage?
rigid mango
if you want genuin help
go to seli's stream
You can see he's streaming on the right
and ask there, he's a really good assa rogue
fresh coyote
Got it. Thanks
short token
have there been any nerfs in the past week? i feel like i'm down 2-3k dps on jaina
civic palm
Nope.
short token
fuck me
civic palm
Nothing Personal, if you have one.
cobalt gyro
@bleak spoke tbh the amount of damage you get on KR last boss with SS is actually insane
bleak spoke
Yeah dratnos plays exsang and an np for it and the raptor dies before second roar
Actually busted af
rigid mango
Np for m+ 
bleak spoke
What classes could even come close to bursting it that hard
Monk probably
With the dragon punch cheese
And tod
rigid mango
pre nerf demo lock
bleak spoke
Okay that’s not current though
rigid mango
or wait, I'm thinking wrong it's the demonic tyran trait
when they stacked that shit
and you see their dps increase instead of decreas 🤔
bleak spoke
I mean if you soft open on dazar your damage goes up with the raptor too
Like you always should anyway cuz vendetta needs to be used on zul
bleak spoke
Yes even more so
Cuz dazar only has kill pressure if your healer ooms or if the raptor gets second fear and it lines with blade combo
rigid mango
hm ok
bleak spoke
That’ll go into your tank’s back and do almost a million damage in 3-4 seconds
rigid mango
I mean
rigid mango
I meant less on soft start more on using np on zul
but maybe it's the same thing tbh
short token
if i am bugged with NP how do i fix it?
drifting cloud
relog and reequip azerite
short token
so remove/ relog / reequip
feral pelican
hey wanted to see if i could get a quick answer. On mythic mekka. I got Sapphire of Brilliance, is that better to use than potion of agility when its available?
bleak spoke
not for assa nah
opaque tree
okay so... does ss just not sim right on st?
i do more damage on st with ss than I sim for
not sure what's up with that
crimson condor
15 shrine - should i run more ST or AoE?
harsh sphinx
you mean you do more than when you try MA?
untold crater
civic palm
tb
granite rampart
can anyone thats killed mythic uu'nat answer a question for me
lost horizon
That's a pretty small group you're trying to get a hold of
Hopefully someone gets back to you
granite rampart
yea i know
civic palm
Yeah extremely small, what's the question though?
granite rampart
so, when i get unstable resonance, and step to the relic that i need to clear the debuff, if theres someone with another debuff in the path of my shadowstep, it kills them. i want to know if thats intended.
step being a teleport it shouldnt act like that since im teleporting, not actually running through someone with a different debuff
granite rampart
wow thats pretty stupid. since you can use teleports to go through the gaze of n'zoth, i figured you should be able to step to the relic you need to.
median roost
Are the CoS pants any good?
civic palm
ye
median roost
how do they compare to equal level other pants? like 10 ilvl better?
granite rampart
i have them at 420, and they sim 200 higher than 425 crit/mast pants for me.
robust ivy
For Mythic Mek, I see that most are running Master Assassin over subterfuge. Why is this?
granite rampart
MA is generally preferred for a pure single target fight.
shy dust
MA is a stronger ST talent
cobalt gyro
most likely also sims better for them
white basalt
in the offhand, is a 415 crit vers dagger better than a 400 haste mastery dagger w/ socket?
lost horizon
Sim @white basalt only way to be sure
If I had to take a random guess, probably socket (worth a lot in OH and haste for me at least is valued very high still)
But it's gonna depend on your own gear
lost horizon
Top Gear to easily compare items in your inventory
Gear Compare to input specific items even if you don't have them
Assuming you're using raidbots.com (which you should)
white basalt
damn, actually a large downgrade
lost horizon
Did you input gems and weapon enchants?
white basalt
Can i add an enchant to a wep?
lost horizon
Yes, go to the enchants/gems section (right below where all the gear is) if using top gear
white basalt
Hm, its saying to put my new 415 with shitty stats in main hand, and my 410 with good stats in offhand. makes sense i guess
actually no, it wants the 400 w/ soc ket in OH over the 410
strange python
jesus, just did a 13wcm and garrote did 16.3% of my damage. so i guess it's not a bad idea that im running 3eb/2ss/1ttk
my boss damage was still 22-26k also, with huge ass reaping dps (100k+)
warm drift
strange python
absolutely love sin in m+, feels so much better than outlaw imo
woven rock
royal lantern
for ST? pretty much the normal 5min no movment all buff sim
its wath most people do
if you want too be realistic with stuff like treacherous covenant, put the uptime at ~80%, but like i said, most people just do the 5min patchwerk sim
vast forum
There is no fight where your tc has 80% uptime unless you play like shit
90-95% is most realistic
royal lantern
i always go with the worst case :c
royal lantern
2k IQ right there
vast forum
Also change apl to overcap cp
lost horizon
I mean you did say 'realistic'
80% is too low to be realistic
Unless you're 1 healing a 30man raid to get that phat healer parse idk lmao
vast forum
Overcapping cp due to player error is more likely than a fight with 80% tc uptime
shell wadi
what are the 6 azerite traits do i want for m+?
lost horizon
Tons of set ups you can run
vast forum
Mix of eb ttk and ss
lost horizon
2eb/ttk/SS is popular
vast forum
For players that are new to assa, i recommend 3eb 3ss
lost horizon
But yeah any of those 3 in different proportions depending on week/instance
vast forum
Until you get familiar with when to use envenom in aoe
shell wadi
gotcha
queen herald
guys whats ttk? xD
solid nova
Twist the knife
real bay
same as always subt pb
bright smelt
2x DD and 1x NP or 3x DD for raids? getting about the same results on sims (+-20dps)
shy axle
while ausgelebts version is (mostly) bis atm, you are fine with combinations out of DD(3 are best tough) 1-3 NP, TC, TK.
bright smelt
currently aint possible on my subparly itemized azerite but will aim towards it
stable oxide
Kinda depends on what your role in the raid is :P If they want you to go pure single target then the above is optimal
But there are alot of bosses where Subterfuge and SS is still really good
perhaps not over DD, but having SS on bosses like Grong, Jadefire and Rastakan is almost always better
and Champions if you do the padding tactic
rigid mango
Yeah but ss damage on like rasta, can be giga pad
You might aswell go dd and just blast the actual target
worldly iron
same for jadefire, might as well blast monk
distant lava
yeah tbh the only fight where SS could actually be better is JFM
stable oxide
Well, the adds need to die :P woudn't really call it padding
distant lava
cause you don'tneed add dmg on grong
rigid mango
I mean it's not padding
night vale
Yeah don’t really agree that it’s pointless pad on Rasta
rigid mango
It's just that after initial usage, ST blast is just as good ir not better
worldly iron
oh right, rasty
night vale
Not if you’re in the realm with the adds in p3
We had real trouble getting them down on progress
rigid mango
?
stable oxide
On Rastakan I use my M+ gear xD
worldly iron
sounds a little 
rigid mango
Idk, ss isn't far worse than ma dd, but so many bosses where i just feel hard blasting the actual boss is just more worthwhile
bright smelt
current setup I have is 2x DD 1x NP 2x SS 1x TC
stable oxide
On most bosses I use 3DD, 1SS, 2 NP
stable oxide
on hard cleave I swap things around
rigid mango
Cephalohide is better
solemn meadow
oh where is that from
solemn meadow
really? okay
lament dove
shrine I think
rigid mango
Yeah
solemn meadow
its siege
rigid mango
Bec op makes up
lament dove
ah yes, siege, sorry
rigid mango
For diff of 2nd np and ttk
solemn meadow
oh wow I just realized
rigid mango
Since it's better to have op than suboptimal 3rd ring
solemn meadow
Mekka is worse than spymaster?
rigid mango
I do but not on pc so
strange python
Cepha is Nice for both raid and M+ tho ;) .
Raid: DD, TTK, OP
M+: EB, TTK, OP , Vampyric
gleaming crater
What traits would you peeps go this week for M+?
rigid mango
3 eb 2 ttk 1 ss for me
gleaming crater
Dont you wanna go full ST since its tyranical?
night vale
i wouldnt
gleaming crater
I can go 3x EB, 2x SS and 1x TTK
night vale
idk if its just me, but i really struggled to get the best out of TTK... i feel if you run 3EB then theres too much value lost in TTK as you tend to just spam EB.
And on bosses, the 3xSS was really nice dmg. I could have been playing ttk wrong tho
rigid mango
I can get high value off of ttk
Would 't recommend many ss during tyr weeks
Cuz might aswell go ttk in that case
strange python
I'll go
3xEB,2xTTK,1xSS.... or
3xTTK, 2xEB, 1xSS. Not sure yet. Depends what I feel like :)
gleaming crater
Well, I can go 2x ttk, but then I cant go 3x EB
real bay
you don't need 3x EB ever
rigid mango
But 3 eb is super good this week
gleaming crater
I can go either 2x EB 2x SS and 2x TTK or 3x EB 2x SS and 1x TTK
solemn meadow
would be my sim but I need to sim gems + enchants on weps
solemn meadow
well its kinda RNG
solemn meadow
for raid?
lament dove
bbi sims better but I'm not a fan of it, OP procs just proc usually at the worst times
lament dove
yeah, if you can convince it to proc in time for TB:)
scarlet hinge
Is 3x DD, 3x NP generally a bad idea (in raid) ?
rigid mango
I just run 3 dd 2 np 1 bbi 2 op 1 whirl
No it isn't
3 DD is very good, 1 minimum np
Rest can be np, bbi, ttk
lament dove
especially good if you have a 2min CD trinket for it
stable oxide
Using ttk in raids makes pooling energy more important right?
real bay
8.2 already pls so the discussion of which is better is over 
can't wait for every outlaw to swap and be like how do you play this
scarlet hinge
it does sim higher yeah
rigid mango
Ye then take it
stable oxide
I assume that the value of envenoms effected by Toxic blade and Elaborate planning increases cause of ttk.
vast forum
@night vale ttk's value isn't obvious on the meters
stable oxide
you don't really have to pool energy alot to get eleborate planned DD's
Pooling energy is only for those elaborate planned envenoms
stable oxide
yeah but the envenom window is pretty big
rigid mango
Ye obv
stable oxide
especially with ttk
rigid mango
Makes dd even better
stable oxide
I think I might only lose abit of envenom uptime when I need to reaply garrote and rupture
cobalt gyro
Sims can't really reflect the strength the extra length envenom has
night vale
@vast forum yeah i just mean, i always run 3 EB... so for me its like TTK vs SS
and i just think SS works better in trash cause its not competiting with TTK (ie should i use a global on FOK of Evenom)
and i didnt notice it too much on bosses, like i feel SS was better overall.
However it probably helps kill prio targets in packs, but having said that i didnt notice my evnenom hitting that much harder? but i could have been playing wrong
vast forum
Idk, i play without ttk but the theoretical value is in bursting down prio targets
Not in boss or overall dmg
rigid mango
^
cobalt gyro
Bbi is really good
rigid mango
Idk
vast forum
Bbi's value will depend on your crit
rigid mango
Wair
tropic ocean
178k pretty hard
warm drift
That's a freehold right @tropic ocean
rigid mango
Double on use?
tropic ocean
yea
solemn meadow
I thought double on use was gud for assa
warm drift
Show me with no dmg buff
solemn meadow
well it sims higher than my dice
cobalt gyro
Don't think the on use of mekka starts cd?
warm drift
90-100k triple ttk?
real bay
imo with TTK you give up too much overall for some prio gain and you can prio without TTK anyways when needed so 
just SS your prio mobs and blast ass
rigid mango
Ah ye
tropic ocean
2 ttk
tropic ocean
90~100ks with enchant and trinket up
cobalt gyro
Mekka trinket is def ok to run 2x on use because it has it's own cd that doesn't proc
warm drift
Well i have no options for ttk 
. So 3xSS
vast forum
Also, in the bbi vs np discussion, np's value varies based on fight length, whereas bbi is pretty consistent
rigid mango
Ah ok then that makes sebse, muh bad
solemn meadow
how much of mekka is lost when you dont use the on use often?
idk why I sim so horribly low too
tropic ocean
time of run/trinket cd -ur usages
vast forum
If u get a 6 min fight, bbi might outperform 2nd np, but if you get a 4.30 fight np might outperform bbi
vast forum
Do you have 8 sockets?
meager nebula
zuldazar set/crucible gear/sockets are op
tropic ocean
at current state I even think that non cos trinket vs cos trinket has higher value than 5 ilvl weapon up
night vale
@tropic ocean yeah thats what i mean i played with a TTK trait and my biggest ENv was like 47k or something... idk if i was playign it wrong
solemn meadow
use lurkers at cabal 
tropic ocean
47k is very low
rigid mango
1 ttk isn't worth
tropic ocean
probably don't utilize tb/eb enough or bad stats/weapons
even with 1 ttk i hit 90k evenoms on jaina
night vale
yeah maybe i just played it wrong, im like 415 equipped, i wanted to try TTK in m+ and just found it underwhelming
tropic ocean
avg is somewhat 40k avg crit 60k~
but in vendetta tb trinket easily 100k+
which just makes it super strong to burn down targets, like the assassins in ml or the healers in sots etc etc
with fok building so much cp can constantly chain 5cp envenoms
real bay
better off using extra EB or SS in m+ , 1 ttk is just weak and you eat your overall damage trying to prio with that
tropic ocean
^no
night vale
yeah i get prio damage is important, i just think at the key levels i do it never makes a big difference.
I very rarely am left with 1 big guy to ST down after the pack dies.
but i only do 17/18s
strange python
I personally like 3xTTK, 2xEB 1xSS best. But I change sometimes based on dungeons and (ofc) affixes
uncut ether
is there a multi dotguide for m+?
like how many ruptures/garrots we need on openers
and on big aoe
and 3 target aoe
and 2 target
tropic ocean
3 garrote
in opener then just spread 4-5 rupture to sustain energy and spam fok
2 target: garrote t1, garrote t2, garrote t1, 3 targets: garrote t1 garrote t2 garrote t3, big aoe garrote t1 garrote t2 garrote t3 (if fresh pull) if its chain/reaping popping and you prepared for it don't garrote at all but fok rupture fok
uncut ether
during sustained aoe when do you choose garrote>rupture?
just on cd?
or are ruptures just better when spamming fok
also are you rupturing on 4 combo points or waiting till 5?
cobalt gyro
Garrote only from stealth or low amounts of targets
with 3 mobs I'd maintain ruptures on all 3, garrote om primary target(if there is one), then with 4 dots ticking i can just spam fok
tropic ocean
any rupture 4-5cp depending on how much your fok rewards you with
only to sustain energy though, so if you see a mob with rupture on it is dying soon don't put another ruptures cause you'll snapshot energy when it dies, smarter to spam more fok
ruptures are better except for opening cuz they cost less energy
and have a longer duration
cobalt gyro
And you open with garrotes because subt + shrouded traits makes each garrote like 100k+ damage
uncut ether
with my current setup i can only run 3 eb, 2ttk, 1 ss
so my garrotes form stealth wont do as much
cobalt gyro
SS buffs each tick so it's a pretty substantial amount of damage, but even if it's not, silences + iron wire is quite powerful on the opener
It also helps kick start energy regen with 3 dots in your first 3 gcds
uncut ether
how does running double ttk change the prio compared to triple ss?
rigid mango
It just means you funnel more env dmg
uncut ether
or is it roughly the same, with an option for prio damage evenom?
cobalt gyro
Your opener will always be the same, the difference will be playstle afterwards
cobalt gyro
With ttk traits you want to get to being energy neutral (about 4 bleeds), then fok > env and dump into the priority target
rigid mango
And just snipe low hp with rup
uncut ether
when above 5 targts i spam fok? otherwise 4 and under I build with fok and env a prio?
rigid mango
To get energy back and then spam again
5+ u just place bleeds
And mongofok
Just spam fok don't care abour finishers
Apart from keeping bleeds up
uncut ether
on 4 and under I maintain bleeds and then move to a env phase?
strange python
i think i'm going to get RSI in my fok finger
cobalt gyro
Or you can dump into a boss or something if it's a reaping > boss kinda pull
uncut ether
icic
cobalt gyro
Ideally tb when you have energy to burn
On cooldown is great but you still want to get as many envs into it as you can
uncut ether
on two target are you guys building CP with fok or mut?
apparently you fok first, and depending on the CP you get you press mut? or is it the other way around
to build CP then spend
real bay
m+ with EB just fok
uncut ether
even on two target?
cobalt gyro
Depends if you want CP or damage
rigid mango
If u have 2 u muti again
cobalt gyro
If you want cp, mut, damage, fok
cobalt gyro
Also that^
uncut ether
icic
rigid mango
Fok does more damahe
But that's how you're most efficient
Since muti is mlre consistant on making cp
Than muti
real bay
dunno, just seem a fok is better unless one of the mobs has higher health
you don't want to end up with one alive for much longer than other
not efficient at all
uncut ether
whats the logic with inner traits in M+?
OP/HMC for ST and Unstable flames for aoe?
im not too sure how to run sims for M+, i mostly play tank lol
uncut ether
apparently unstable flames crit is massive for fok tho
cobalt gyro
You can use dungeon slice to sim for m+, it's a good approximation
crisp steppe
Do what u want tbh
Op is busted st
Eb is busted aoe
Get all busted traits to get a well rounded setup imo
crisp steppe
No idea there's also a pvp channel. They might hook u up
strange python
@proud wren aim for ~20% haste/40% mastery, one shrouded suffocation trait is pretty necessary
3x twist the knife is good for bigger envenoms when you're bursting
proud wren
Thank you
Anyone have one like it I can get the string from?
Now, second thing lol, I’m using luxthos WA, I want a plater and elv ui that isn’t crazy, something similar to this
I like the dots being easy to see and everything seems clean
stuck knoll
You could ask on his stream for his ui
strange python
he asked for pvp
proud wren
I did last night but he ended stream right before I hit enter
meager nebula
If he has a discord it might be available there
proud wren
He only streams when he raids or high mythics so that not until Friday lol
He has nothing in his info either
tropic ocean
@uncut ether any situation where you need fast energy
proud wren
I checked for commands as well but he has none
proud wren
Nameplate stuff and a elv ui
I just like how everything is easy to see when not targeted and all the dots showing above the nameplate
I have weakauras already
I’m using luxthos
uncut ether
Nameplateauras is the addon, it doesnt change anything with the nameplate but it makes the dots really visible and different sizes for each dot
im pretty sure hes using plater+ nameplateauras
uncut ether
elvui is just his unitframes
proud wren
Okay so all I need are those 2 addons
But can I find strings for them? I’m garbage at setting that kinda stuff up
Like I downloaded elv ui 2-3 weeks ago and as soon as I saw everything on the screen I logged out and disabled it immediately
And I figured it would be easier to switch targets with the nameplates being so big
strange python
how much healing reduction is wound poison, with and without the talent that increases its potency?
25%/30%
ty :)
dunno why it's not on the tooltip but it hasn't been on the tooltip since forever i think
i was told it was 19%/25%
but mby tht wass with old pvp talent? idk
i'm pretty sure that was deadly brew
ya
uncut ether
whats the logic behind hidden blades vs poison bomb in m+?
shy axle
just got gorak tuls, yes man, finally
rigid mango
Just go pv @uncut ether
Pb*
Hb does less damage even w 3 eb for the most part, and pb is nice on bosses/low target
lament dove
less dmg than PB...?
shy axle
iirc Pb is ~ 5% overall dmg while EB ups FoK dmg ~ 3%
rigid mango
What amber said
It ends up being less damage at the end of the dungeon
Esp on tyr weeks there's just not a reason to go hb
uncut ether
apparently the rogues on oce are running HB since it does more overall at the end of the dungeons
distant lava
the rogues on OCE
since when is that where our info comes from
you should see what asian outlaws do 
tropic ocean
saying ti does less is not a correct answer
it heavily depends on your pull sizes
since if you are the level to just spam fok poison bomb will do nothing for you
e.g. my last run freehold:
fok 5,4mil dmg
poison bomb: 1,6mil dmg
flat gain to fok would be somwhat around 1mil dmg, not considering using less envenoms due to not having poison bomb or stacked foks into trash
dark crag
What do asian outlaws do? I am scared
crimson condor
Looks like the new thing is to use PB instead of CT in M+ now?
vast forum
ct does ok dmg but is just not worth the global with multiple EB
vast forum
on higher fortified keys, sure
tropic ocean
imagine only having to press 1 spell every 12 secto get
multi bleed energy
and eb
😄
vast forum
but garrote dmg is much bigger
tropic ocean
ct doesnt change how you use garrote
placid flint
Hey guys, just got my rogue to 120 and im debating what spec to start gearing for. Mostly play M+ so I can see that Outlaw is obviously stupidly strong. But wanted to see how you guys felt assassination would feel after Outlaw traits get nerfed...Think Sin will take top rogue spot with the season rotation?
tropic ocean
sin is pretty much equal for to outlaw rn too
if u just started play outlaw
u dont need to farm 93229 azerite
distant lava
🔮 for specs strenght in 8.2
tropic ocean
sin need mix of eb ttk ss
to be effective while with outlaw
u need 1 wits trait and ready to go
misty edge
You guys think EB will get nerfed in 8.2
distant lava
no reason to
misty edge
I hope you’re right haha 😆
misty edge
So my group runs mid level keys 12-15’s would you guys take a 3rd EB with Scent of Blood and heed my call or one with SS, twisting knife and heed.
tropic ocean
ss ttk
misty edge
That would be my only SS trait
tropic ocean
then the decision is 100% to take the ss anyway
misty edge
Ok awesome thanks man 🙏🏼
rigid mango
Always 1 ss minimum for m+ :D
misty edge
I just got so caught up in the hype when I saw a 3rd EB but then I realized what I was going to loose 😭
tropic ocean
on this key lvl and with thsi week affix
3 eb is just overkill
you can't pull as much, trash doesn't live long enough
either tank will lose aggro
vast forum
what is people's opinion on OP vs gutripper on jaina for progress?
misty edge
Ok sounds good so you’re telling me the sims were correct 🤪 I want it to be wrong just once!
tropic ocean
for m+ sim 40 sec fight 6target
misty edge
Oh shit no dungeon slice. Ok I’ll give that a go when I get back home and see what it says
tropic ocean
3eb is highest aoe but
rigid mango
Compared to what it's actually worth
tropic ocean
at least this week
misty edge
.......so I’m going to have to make a new gear set haha I think right now haste is my second highest stat
Well thanks for the quick good info guys I really appreciate it!
vast forum
nice, i just realised i have helm and shoulder with DD/NP/Gutripper
vast forum
unfortunately, no good chest 😦
tropic ocean
well
you don't really have much wiggle room
since you're dependant on t1 t2 traits as well
vast forum
no chest with DD/NP/gutripper in the game FeelsBadMan
rigid mango
It's sorta betyer than op
rigid mango
Like op is worth barely anythinf as soon as transmission hits
rigid mango
vast forum
i mean
misty edge
I feel so slow with no haste normally but I guess having a few ruptures out helps with that in m+ makes sense.
tropic ocean
just did another freehold
with hb
8,42m fok dmg
vs
5,40+1,6pb
😃
pad pad pad pad pad
misty edge
Duuuuuuuuuude I have 15% I think.....
misty edge
I can’t wait to get home from work now and look at my gear in my bags haha
tropic ocean
so I guess it just heavily depends on how you are pulling
gonna do one with ct now 😄
tropic ocean
nah
the one with pb was 1,7k tank
the 2nd one 807rio 😄
could pad more with bigger pulls i guess
ct timeeee
distant lava
The only reliable way to compare id put 2 sins with same skill and gear in same key
tropic ocean
so you can never compare it 😄
distant lava
You really can't compare overall dmg like that