its highly affected by when you kill the boss I suppose
#assassination
tropic ocean
against how many other ppl you get listed
so 1 log in week x can be 95 while lower dps log week y can be 99 i suppose
cobalt pelican
maybe i'm just stupid and missing something obvious
it's likely, i just woke up
yeah it says compared against the last 2 weeks of logs
but the number doesn't change at all between my raids
tropic ocean
i had some orange logs that would barely be purple now
cobalt pelican
it's 679 on april 28th and 679 on may 2nd which definitely isn't right
tropic ocean
just for killing a boss early
cobalt pelican
unless the gods of COINCIDENCE are around
cobalt pelican
there's quite a few i've noticed randomly while looking at logs but i just learned to not look at anything during a wipe besides cast timeline
tropic ocean
i killed jaina 25th april
which was same id
and got listed against 1,2k other rogues
so
we should get matched against same amount of parses I suppose?
cobalt pelican
maybe? no idea, really
tropic ocean
or does it match against daily parses?
cobalt pelican
i always just assumed it was comparing against something that isn't the full kill l istings
but what that was i have no idea
cobalt pelican
that's why i thought it might be using like
the same thing as log compare
where it tries to match
traits, ilvl
etc
tropic ocean
how can you get listed against less ppl when u killed it later from my logic there should be more parses
i dont think traits/ilvl matter for global %
cobalt pelican
nah they don't
tropic ocean
its just really wird
weird
inside the log it shows I got listed against 679 ppl
cobalt pelican
i'm sure someone more experienced with wcl knows what's going on i just never really looked into it too much
tropic ocean
maybe if u open the log it compares you against current standings
and in the overview it compares you against historical standing
that would explain why overview logs are still orange when inside the logs they turned purple or blue idk
fickle viper
if you hover over the percentile in the Analyze > Damage Done tab
But if you go to the Rankings tab, or check your char overview, I think it compares to all logs
(Public ofc)
so its 95% parse vs past 2 weeks' parses, but 96% parse vs all logged parses
tropic ocean
but theres more than 1,1k parses (global)
fickle viper
unique logged parses* presumably as well
fickle viper
It might be snapshot of the past two resets, idk if those dates would make that make more sense
tropic ocean
could it be possible that it only accounts best parses
e.g. if u have 95 log jaina
and rekill u do 80
fickle viper
tropic ocean
it wont add ur 80 parse to the comparison parses?
fickle viper
tropic ocean
cuz that'd made sense
fickle viper
You can click between those two as well at Rankings, I think thats the main difference
So Rankings is vs unique best parses
and PArses is vs past 2 weeks public parses
tropic ocean
yeah makes sense
u can be good vs last 2 weeks
but bad overall
gj @fickle viper
fickle viper
And I would imagine it snapshots the resets, so not 2 weeks before X date but just the past 2 resets orso
Still no idea how the wipe parses work exactly tho
tropic ocean
it definetely snapshots
once u got an orange parse u wont lose it anymore
but if you open the log you see that it can be worse against last 2 weeks
fickle viper
In your personal char overview yes
same with R1s, it will keep a 100% logged there
even if you get beat later on
tropic ocean
yep
fickle viper
In that one overview page you linked as well:
you have the Hist % snapshotted and # of parses it was compared to
and Todays %
cobalt pelican
there's still some fucky shit
fickle viper
with all current parses
tropic ocean
but teh hist% is wrong tho? in my character overview it shows 31
oh
no im stupid I guess
the 31% is the one I got right when I killed it
and hist % is after period of 2 weeks %
fickle viper
idk if its after 2 weeks frotm that point per se
It is a bit weird
theres some disparities sometimes
tropic ocean
it would make sense since I kileld it early in the id
cobalt pelican
quite big ones, it must be something to do with how the 2 weeks is managed
fickle viper
Yeah, it could be as it fills up that week's reset ID
So that it snapshots to your page on the moment of kill
cobalt pelican
ie. it's not a rolling 2 weeks it just hard resets randomly
fickle viper
but HIst % based on the end of that week
tropic ocean
yeah
maybe its tied to the id
like u kill boss at wednesday and would orange log, snapshot you got orange log but by the end of theid it would only be purple
disparities could come from the different id resets
us/eu/china
fickle viper
Theres some weird shit tho
A Public log of Fayzs from vodkaz (prot pala), r1 dmg on Cabal on kill (first kill), hes r1 on the rankings page for the boss as well currently, but then "compared against parses" hes at a 98%
cobalt pelican
yeah not sure
i see stuff randomly like this
not really great comparisons but they're both y esterday
understandably fight length drastically different
or well, not length in time i guess but %
but 22 is 71% on the 20.4 is 73%
one is eu one is na, maybe? no idea really
like i said i'm sure it's something simple that someone who understands how this stuff works could explain all i know is i see fucky shit on wipe logs all the time and am just like eh whatever
fickle viper
Wipe logs for sure differentiates between phases afaik
So there youve got a P4 vs P5 wipe
but then Id imagine its also basing the % off of all wipes in that phase or something
but that seems wrong too
cobalt pelican
hm, that makes sense actually
fickle viper
It might even just be comparing it to the same 2 week parses (existing, complete ones), but then compared to those parses' dmg in the same phase
Wipe parses are useless is the main takeaway point
cobalt pelican
yeah
the more i look at things the more i just get confused i think i need breakfast
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/j6AZBMW8T279Vtxg#fight=3&type=damage-done does this just not get marked as a p3 pull because it was kinda scuffed?
oh well i think i have decided i am just idiot and numbers are stupid
dark crag
Why do you want parses of wipes anyway?
cobalt pelican
i don't, really, just kinda curious how it works
marble hemlock
every intermission counts as an additional phase on jaina/uunat
so it shows as p5 wipe
golden relic
Not even 29k 
bleak spoke
I wish I had nice stuff from crucible that looks hella dam
cobalt pelican
i just kept re-running it and rolling on unat the first week
didn't end up with the boots still though
sleek iron
yeah the boots were about 200dps, leggings 150 and the trinket was like 600dps boost
pretty insane tbh
came back to sin as my sub was simming 1.5k lower :/
even with bis traits
real bay
how much you sim without using zuldazar set
bleak spoke
I want the trinket and boots pretty bad but I don’t think it’s worth on jaina
cobalt pelican
the trinket is super worth, the boots are useless though
bleak spoke
Maybe when we down her and reclear I can try to make nice numbers with them
bleak spoke
The healers are already struggling kinda
cobalt pelican
eh, that's fair i guess
real bay
ok
sleek iron
i replace zuldazar items with two other items with socket.. total 9 sockets
cobalt pelican
the only time it really coincides with raid damage is the 3rd vendetta on the 2nd barrel really though
real bay
27.850 here but not ceph and 6 sockets
bleak spoke
I could make it work if I played better but yeah that’s where we’re struggling
cobalt pelican
if you have other good ass trinkets it's probably fine 2 skip
bleak spoke
On the second barrel
cobalt pelican
yeah that's the only one i ever cancel early depending on the timing
bleak spoke
Plumage actually saved my life lol, I survived a siegebreaker with less than 1k hp
But maybe the situation will be different when we start getting to the wall
cobalt gyro
I've been using lurkers on jaina. 2nd barrel is fine, when it's getting high in stacks you're just about to drop yours so the damage is way less spooky
cobalt pelican
the timings are a little different between guilds, and personally delayed if you're running shrouded (+20s)
i think it's usually fine regardless but it's understandable to be conservative during progress if people are struggling
wide stone
Hey i have a quick question, if i have 3x SS 1xDD, 1x Meticulous and 1x NP should i run Subterfuge + Exsan?
or still TB
or should i get 2x Twist the Knife instead of 2 SS
dense quest
sim it, it will tell you exactly what will give you more dps
undone sandal
Still sin top tier for rogues? Or is outlaw more competetive for m+ and some casual raiding?
eager spire
Anywhere you guys can see me improving here? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/94aULYJVJWL94ECYU8V4US Thanks 😄
visual quartz
not sure I see too many Asn using DS
past marten
You should replace on of the on-use trinkets with another trinket (if you have anything decent) and you should replace Deeper Stratagem with Vigor
eager spire
only other trinket I have in my bags right now is a 405 Chargestone of the Thunder King's Court and its trash? Anything you'd recommend from mythic+'s ?
visual quartz
Dice from freehold is very nice
past marten
Why would you say the 405 Chargestone is shit? I just simmed it vs. your medallion and it's a 475 dps increase
eager spire
Bloodmallet :x
drifting cloud
it is shit, but 2 on use trinkets are even worse
past marten
Indeed
eager spire
Would a 375 Dice beat the 405 Chargestone?
spice surge
You can sim yourself and find out
past marten
eager spire
dope thanks fella
obsidian cipher
oshit I forgot about essences, anyone wanna recommend one for the imminent PTR testing? lul
shy dust
You can swap easily as long as you have tomes
stable plinth
Were void crashes on uu'nat feintable?
stable plinth
Ah that's the post I was trying to find cause I remember seeing it lol
Forgot to check that channel
delicate crater
Is there any value in running 3x TTK? I have 2/2/2 TTK/SS/EB currently
Not sure how to sim it to see the difference
past marten
I don't think a sim will help you with that, it's more or less a matter of playstyle and what kind of goal you have. If you wanna pump prio damage, 3x TTK is nice.
rigid mango
@delicate crater it just moves your damage order to your envs
You'll notice 1 target dying faster with it
Whilst your higher target damage might lose a bit, boss dmg and prio dmg will go up, do recommend
tropic ocean
this week 3ttk should be decent if u have 2 other aoe blasters
tropic ocean
i used 3ttk in some motherlode yesterday
and could actually manage to trim the peacemakers fairly well down
i mean obviously your overall will be not as competitive but
ppl with brain will realize what benefit you bring
also 200k envenoms are sick on 1st boss motherlode
tropic ocean
yeah
spice surge
You can get like 115k on regular mobs/bosses too if you have lurkers and 3x ttk
And some decent mastery
rigid mango
Yah ofc
prisma monolithBOT
First research 8.2 Sin Essence notes Thank you Tisumi: https://tinyurl.com/y6ouut2o
random scroll
the vendetta relic makes t2 talent so awkward
having to either blanket vanish or delay vendetta making the minor passive useless
strange python
guys to AoE on m+ you recommend me to have x1 EB and x1 TC?
rigid mango
Not tc
real bay
EB yes
rigid mango
But min 1 eb
tame tangle
Hi y’all. Rerolled to sin from ret recently. Question about elaborate planning while playing toxic blade. As far as I know, I envenom as much as I can within vendetta and toxic blade, but without either, pool energy for next toxic blade. So during the pooling window , I won’t be hitting the elaborate planning bonus, right? So, do I need to even really track it, or is it just a nice bonus when it lines up?
Ret has a similar mechanic with Righteous Verdict, and the play there is to basically ignore it. Idk if elaborate planning is the same or if you need to really try and chain the buffs
civic palm
You can't keep EP up at all times, so try and make sure that it is up during your windows of high burst.
tame tangle
Ok so for example when vendetta is up, I’m not going to overcap energy, and I’m sitting at 4-5 CP with 2 seconds left on EP, I should wait to envenom last second to keep it chaining? Am I understanding correctly? Sorry for dumb questions still new to rogue
civic palm
Sounds fine, just don't overcap energy without doing something with the energy. This happens with Outlaw but not with Assassination usually.
tame tangle
Ok great thanks so much. Yeah after playing outlaw for m+ but sin in raid, sins energy seems to come back at a much slower rate , and as a new player I don’t mind as I can plan things a little better while waiting on energy
civic palm
Yeah it's a management spec so you tend to spend most of your time planning.
tame tangle
One more question. This is very specific so not sure there’s an exact answer. Let’s say on mekkatorque, his knock up is coming. My rupture is not new, but it’s not at pandemic range either. Is it worth to refresh a little too early, just INCASE I get polymorphed, so that it won’t fall off? I guess whatever the answer is here could be applied to many similar raid mechanics
Also thanks so much for the help so far , really appreciate it
strange python
apply it.
civic palm
If you're going to cap or it's going to fall off/or be at risk of falling off, just reapply it.
tame tangle
Ok great. So it’s worth to reapply a tad early , to not risk falling off during a mechanic that will be happening soon. Really appreciate it y’all
This is so much more fun than playing ret lol I’m having a blast. Wish I rerolled sooner
trim forge
If I am reading Hero Damage right for M+ stacking SS & EB is the way to go .. when you cant NP & DD?
spice surge
DD is absolute garbage for m+
civic palm
Taking something like Scent of Blood or many of the generic traits will end up better than DD in M+
spice surge
NP is bad, but usable in niche cicrumstances
You want a mix of SS, EB and possibly some twist the knife for m+
Whereas for (most) raid bosses you want 3x DD and atleast 1 NP
civic palm
@spice surge Would you say that while the DungeonSlice isn't perfect, it does at least show a decent representation of the traits for M+?
spice surge
For assa i wouldnt say it does
trim forge
thanks
civic palm
TtK seems low mmm
visual hemlock
can someone link macro for interrupt on first boss in tos?
civic palm
and now that I look over this yeah I don't think this is, all too great.
strange python
how many shrouded suffs do i want for ST
strange python
ah its only good for aoe?
spice surge
up to 3 target cleave, not very good for big aoe
@civic palm For example, if you sim with TB and 3x twist the knife, it does max 1 envenom into the tb debuff
Most of the time 0
civic palm
Right so there are APL issues.
trim forge
as I play with hero damage and raidbots I am encouraged to see I have a bunch of really horrible 420 pieces!
civic palm
Still weird that it would only do 1 ENV, though I suppose it's busy AoEing.
spice surge
The sim always refresh when the debuffs reaches pandemic, so if you have 2s left of tb and 5cp, but a rupture on another target gets to 7s it will refresh
spice surge
Although i do think dungeonslice is fairly good for outlaw, since it has less complex aoe decisions to make
civic palm
Yep.
stone mesa
ty
cyan loom
hey guys anyone good with macros?
civic palm
Maybe
cyan loom
#showtooltip
/cast [stealth] Cheap Shot; [nostealth] Kidney Shot
i wanna put a midifier in there so i can press the modifier in stealth and make it kidney instead of cheap
civic palm
Is there an issue with using the stealth bar?
cyan loom
no so as that currently is
when im stealthed
it cheapshots
when i am not stealthed
it will kidney
i just am running outa key binds lol
civic palm
Yeah that's how those abilities work, put them on the same button and you won't mess that up.
cyan loom
so im trying to make the macro do what i want it to lol
yeah - but
sometimes u want to kidney from stealth
with MFD
so i need a modifier so it doesnt cheapshot with that macro ahaha
civic palm
Could just make a MFD+Cheap Shot macro for those circumstances.
cyan loom
nailed it
#showtooltip [modifier:shift] Kidney Shot; Cheap Shot /cast [stance:0][modifier:shift] Kidney Shot; [stance:1/2/3] Cheap Shot
civic palm
Sure
bleak spoke
@civic palm I’m assuming it’s also hard to tell a sim that there’s a prio target that doesn’t have to die but needs to be made even in hp with the mobs around it before you can cleave normally
civic palm
I am not even sure if SIMC is capable of doing the math of having targets of various health values without making an entity that is Large, Medium, Small and having different HP values attached to them.
IIRC there are averages taken for group dps/clear times and those are used in some cases to simulate DPSing in a group.
humble crane
@rose perch Sorry we had to break up because you are a cat person. We had a good thing going on
silver wagon
i'm moving from outlaw to assination (i REALLY enjoy the assination playstyle) what sims (HAC? multiple bosses 1min?) are people using to get azerite options for an m+ environment?
also in something like reaping - do we just spam FoK? or FoK > Finsiher > FoK > Finisher?
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
stable plinth
!wa
silver wagon
@real bay ty mate. much appreciated.
modest raft
ty erttu
bronze kelp
damn, i got another EB/TTK piece. i guess going 3 EB 3TTK is not that good. could do 3ttk 2 eb 1ss but 2 of those pieces are 400. or 3eb 2ttk 1ss 🤔
visual mesa
How is elemental whirl value compared to blood siphon?
crimson condor
is 3x eb 0x treach a significant step up over 2x eb 1x treach in m+? sitting on 10k resid and wondering if it's worth it to buy the piece for 3x eb
robust cloak
is scent of blood still okay for m+?
hollow stone
Its probably worth. Its likely 8.2 will be late june and the saving tr wont give you much of a head start due to the aggressive scaling of tr prices in 8.2. If you wanna push keys before 8.2, id go for it @crimson condor
Tc is annoying for m+ but its not TERRIBLE
Scent is ok but you want ss eb ttk in general @robust cloak
crimson condor
thanks apple
robust cloak
don't have a ttk unfortunately 😦
tropic ocean
Eb is massive increase over tc
Getting more ttk/ss over 3rd eb is more efficient though
short pivot
tropic ocean
np is not really worth it
Any mix of ttk/ss/eb is fine
i‘m running 1 eb 2ss 3ttk atm
tropic ocean
I mean sure you can use np for bosd but you will lose a lot of dmg throughout the dungeon
Majority of the dungeon even with tyran is trash
bleak spoke
There’s outside use for 1 np in kings rest
Where you play 3 ss exsang and you can blow up the second raptor on dazar before second fear
But that’s only relevant in really high kings
In that scenario you don’t have vendetta on pull and you save vanish vendetta and the third exsang for the raptor spawn open ggg r vendetta on king exsang then rupture raptor and you have enough dots rolling with low haste to have mutis and envenom to kill raptor in 15-18 seconds
cobalt gyro
@bleak spoke don't need NP for that
tropic ocean
why would you open with 3 garrote? :^)
cobalt gyro
Vanish > ggg , 2 on add, 1 on boss, rupture add, then just pump envenoms into the boss without targetting the add again, fucking explodes
tropic ocean
oh, maybe i misunderstood cuz what he wrote made 0 sense to me
bleak spoke
NP makes having nearly no haste feel not terrible on that
especially if you've just pumped the other raptor
timber meadow
just picking up assasin and goin through some top logs ive found to figure out what to do right and had a question about this particular one
i noticed there's some random periods of pooling outside of tb coming off cd and was curious what this is
64 seconds to 69 seconds and 71 seconds to 75.5 seconds
were the two big ones i saw that i was curious about
happens again 90.5-99.5
rose sky
What would the top azerite trait setup be for raid evironment?
cobalt pelican
if there's no specific reason to be spending energy you shouldn't be up until fairly close to cap
and for traits, whatever does damage, nothin personnel/double dose/treacherous/whatever, sim your gear
cobalt pelican
you just have to get used to thinking of your damage coming in cycles, you very rarely want to be envenoming on really low energy and then getting very little out of the buff uptime because you have no energy
you want to fit as much of your energy expenditure into envenom (and by nature, ep) as you can, and use as little as required outside of it
as little as required meaning maintaining bleeds and not capping, more or less
timber meadow
gotcha so just like maximizing your various windows - so if your sinking envenum with no energy - you can't do much with the buff afterwards
so better to pool and then envenum when you can take advantage of buff
while mantaining bleeds
kinda smae way you wanna pool a lil before tb, you wanna pool a lil to make sure you maximize finisher buff
cobalt pelican
yip, you'll notice on the log you linked as an example at 63ish sec, he could envenom earlier but then the 2nd mutilate at 70seconds would be outside the elaborate planning window with basically nothing gained
in that case it'd still be inside the envenom window, but in some cases if you envenom at 0 energy and 4cp it won't be and that's a pretty significant loss since the chance of dd proccing is much lower
timber meadow
interesting this is super helpful
might need to grab a wa to track some of these windows
tropic ocean
@rose sky at current gear, gorak tul shoulder, stormwall helm (or champions) and cephalohide jacket
for st and on cleave fight pick as many np/ss as you want
severe bough
hey, i've a question
do most abilities scale with offhand dagger too?
cause i kinda want to try assass with a 400 dagger MH and a 360 OH but i dont know if it would be too terribel
bright quartz
just sim it. with gear compare. put a 400 dagger in OH in the second gear set
strange python
Hey all, new to the discord and good to be here.
Question for all you assassination rogues. I got a guy I started at level 30, and so far it’s going smooth. But I’ve never levelled a rogue to max. I’m interested in doing some raids maybe, but never done them before. What’s the best advice you guys could give a new assassin rogue to do wel in raid settings??
bleak spoke
Learn the class and how it plays? You’re not going to be in a raid setting for a little while
hot urchin
The ravenholdt website has everything you need to know to get you started
strange python
@bleak spoke learning the class and all, That’s a given I think. I got a lot of time to level up and learn so I’m not worried bout that.
I was more wondering if there’s some fundamentals that anyone needs to know going into raid settings in general, specifically a rogue. But I’ll take @hot urchin suggestion and check out the website and see what’s on there. Thanks guys.
hot urchin
You’ll be comfortable if you level that way in no time as well, it’s not a difficult spec to play. Biggest thing is to pool energy, don’t mash mutilate.
If you like fast specs that is not for you
strange python
I’m happy with whatever sort rotation to be honest. I don’t mind a bit of forethought and strategy in playing. Makes it more rewarding.
visual quartz
Tricks the tank pre-pull, make sure your stealthed before pulling, make sure your psns are applied to weapons.
tribal marlin
Rogue leveling is quite a tough tbh since you won't have any aoe ability before lvl 63. I'd recommend you to start with Assa spec for multi-doting in the very early lvl and swap to Subtely at lvl 30. Once you hit lvl 50 you can go back to Assa if you want (Assa is unplyable before lvl 50 because the lack of poisonous bleed).
Past lvl 63 you can swap to outlaw for faster leveling thx to Blade Flurry
stable pine
Anyone got macro for binding Vendatta with Lurker when lurker is equiped?
red plaza
spark temple
How terrible is EBx3 and TTKx3 for m+?
civic palm
Not terrible, but could use 1 or more Shrouded Suffocations.
spark temple
I could go EBx3, TTKx2, SSx1 if that's a better spread
civic palm
Yep.
pure valley
@primal elk
wanton glade
Anyone has tried to macro Blood of the Enemy with Vendetta on PTR ?
onyx rock
BotE = 1,5min CD, Vendetta = 2min CD and both have a gcd... so no
wanton glade
I don't understand how their cd times is relevant to my questions, but thanks
onyx rock
Well you would waste BotE Casts if you macro it with Vendetta.
winter gale
Good morning guys. I wanted to ask u wich trait setup is best for Jaina progress ?
Pure ST one with 3x DD or shall I play with one SS?
onyx rock
All relevant dmg is Singletarget so 3xDD is perfectly fine
solemn meadow
How is warmode still a thing?
civic palm
yNot?
solemn meadow
I have not had a single 1v1 this expansion
even at the start of bfa I had allies gank me to death at worldquests
mysteriously enough I didn't have that in legion even tho I was on a pvp realm
are there any good honor talents for assa?
solemn meadow
well war isnt raids farming single people or am I wrong 🤔
civic palm
It is when I am bringing my shit throoooooooooough.
civic stag
Should I wait with TB to pair it with vendetta?
civic stag
Thanks
winter gale
Is there also any important wa that I should get or some tip u guys have for Jaina mythic? I got all the abilities wa's and one for barrel explosion, ray bait...
onyx rock
Heart of Frost yelling Weakaura is good and the Ele interrupt wa but since we can just kill the ele after the nerf you wont need that one anymore i guess
opal meadow
Just got destroyed by a blood dk, any tips?
trail cypress
don't 1v1 tanks
shy axle
anyone got a Wa that displays the ruptures I have on every target? Kind of a rupture/garrote counter to add
tropic ocean
royal lantern
eh, #1 is #1
marble hemlock
i mean
you basically won the game
can quit now
getting rank1 simdps on wowprogress is literally THE DREAM
buoyant coyote
how isnt that an upgrade https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hEihHJZiT9bKqudDPg1vzn ?
The resonating heart is pretty garbo
and new trinket i got from WQ is agility and pure dmg
sullen pagoda
It is 300dps
sullen pagoda
Nope
buoyant coyote
pepehand
buoyant coyote
maybe its better then my current idk lets sim i think so
I would say NP can be better then Tradewinds
sullen pagoda
Than current ye probably, sim it
sleek iron
man it must suck having zero sockets lol
buoyant coyote
abit ye
sullen pagoda
you need lurkers gift trinket
that thing blasts
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/t78EucZ4HY8QCHq8mhcQMG it was "small" upgrade
shy axle
which setup yould you use for rasta "progress"? Normal MA+ 3xDD/2xNP/1x TtK or Subt+ 2x SS/2xTtK/2xDD
real bay
pure st is likely most useful
dark crag
Go outlaw because you will kill adds 2 times and extra range is nice when the other melee fuck up fire
cloud iris
For like an 18 KR this week 3xSS + 1xeb/ttk/sob is the dream right?
rigid mango
Sob is never the dream
I'd say 3 ttk 2 ss 1 eb, 2/2/2 or 2 ttk 2 ss 1 eb 1 bbi are better
1 ttk isn't worth playing around
@cloud iris
More worth having the trait at 2+ traits than just a one of
cloud iris
But i like sob 😞
And ttk cause its not bad on st and one eb to have some sort of aoe
And 3xSS feels mandatory in kr
bleak spoke
there's almost no advantage to having sob over ttk
if there was it would be in a giga pull dungeon and not kr
but it would also mean that you're pulling enough mobs in a way where fok is less damage per execute time than rupture
spice surge
Well, sob does give far larger aoe damage
Than ttk does
But eb is still a lot better than sob at increasing aoe damage, so there is no point getting sob unless you already have 3x eb
And at that point, do you really need more aoe damage?
tribal marlin
do you guys still play exs / ct in m+ ?
or do you run pb / tb and just spam FoK on packs ?
shy axle
pb and tb/ex depends. You might want to use exe if you use 3x Eb/3x SS but maybe even then TB, need to sim
rigid mango
even at that, it's hard to make exsang work tbh
GCB makes it better, but GCB is bad in m+ so
🤷
strange python
Hey all quick question;
After looking on the ravenholdt site for assassin rotations, I’ve been using said rotations as I level up. However in groups, often times (as in most of the time) targets get killed before my DOTs become effective, thus wasting energy/combo points.
Do you guys even bother with Garrote/rupture on regular mobs, or just build combo points to burst damage only?
rigid mango
What level are you talking?
strange python
Like 30-40. Just early game still.
rigid mango
Yeah then it doesn't matter
It's not comparable to max level
You can't really do the regular rotations in lvl 30/40 content
Shit dies in mere seconds
strange python
Well yeah since a lot of regular rotation abilities are not even useable yet.
cobalt pelican
leveling is just different really, like as sub you just go mfd and eviscerate things and they die
strange python
That’s what I mean, things die in seconds. Lol
rigid mango
Until possibly what
80+?
idk when you get most of your core abilities anyways, but rotationally wise, you should rly just start focusing when reaching levels where it's similar to max
cobalt pelican
at max level against mobs that die really quickly you wouldn't garrote, and rupture you would only use for the energy return rather than the damage but still rarely use, if that helps
rigid mango
and ig that's like 90-100+
brittle plume
is 3 double dose > shrouded suffocation ?
brittle plume
alright - if i got 3 ss and only 2 dd should i go 3 ss?
cloud sandal
how many do i try to manage dots on
spice surge
For ST you dont want SS at all
spice surge
4 dots is enough to be energy neutral
brittle plume
thx eleem
shy axle
DD is better than DD sure, but if you just got SS its perfectly fine to use it tough
SS°
spice surge
Triad?
spice surge
No
desert kelp
aight
strange python
@rigid mango @cobalt pelican thanks for the advice guys. I just wanna play the spec to it’s full potential and not wasting energy/combo points. Thanks again!
rigid mango
Ye I mean all that'll matter much more later when the rotation is an actual rotation 😄
strange python
Haha. Yeah that’s true, I’m getting too excited without having all my tools to even practice!!
delicate crater
is 2/2/2 TTK/EB/SS optimal for most affixes or should I be trying to stack one of them to 3
I "can" run 3x SS or 3x TTK. Can't run 3 EB yet. 2/2/2 feels pretty good this week.
tropic ocean
2/2/2 is pretty much fine for everything
sometimes u want 1 eb and 1 more ttk or ss to increase prio dmg
or sometimes you want more aoe
i played 2ss 3 eb 1ttk before until I could go 2/2/2, now i usually go 2/2/2 and for weeks like this with bolstering I switch to 3 ttk 2 ss 1 eb
plucky plover
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
delicate crater
I can definately do 3ttk 2ss 1 eb
tropic ocean
(you will do mostly less overall than rest of your group but trimming the high hp mobs so they die shortly after the bombed mobs is just super value and any half decent group will realize it)
personally I roughly do 27-32k overall(depending on dungeon) with 3ttk setup, against 30-38k (depending on dungeon) with 2/2/2 setup I usually do
but I think especially this week your prio damage just has super value
with clap tank and mostly dh/hunter/mage I never had the feeling we lacked aoe anyway
amber quail
I’m 3xEB and 3xSS, only change stats on gear between the tirannical/fortified. More crit for fortified and more haste in tirannical.
Would try 3xEB and 3xTtK
jolly fable
what bosses is it not worth taking the untouchable boots?
tropic ocean
they are free at conclave
distant lava
jaina
jolly fable
ok thanks
cloud sandal
what to use breath of bwonsamdi on?
rigid mango
Going 0 ss is fucking horrendous @amber quail For m+ atleast
timber meadow
anyone here use wow analyzer for assa?
spice surge
Its not properly supported so i wouldnt suggest it
bright quartz
does faint work vs the crushing doubt dmg when someone else has to carry it away from the raid?
spice surge
Check the pins in #wow-general for what feint works and doesnt work against
But no, it does not
autumn stag
Are there anyone who's running 20+ keys as Assa here? I've played a lot of Outlaw, but I really DIG the assa multi bleed AOE atm.
autumn stag
Just wondering if its viable on high end keys compared to Outlaw.
I mean, toe to toe with outlaw, is Assa viable in high end keys?
rigid mango
It's arguably better
In some dungeons, definetly
People have this view on thed iff between the two specs
They're really quite close
tropic ocean
assa is just as viable as outlaw
here you have a list of rogues playing assa in 22s
real bay
even more so next season
outlaw has the fotm factor so a lot of ppl just play it
cant wait for reaping to go away
languid ore
They really need to fix feint to work for all aoe. Rogues are lacking in defensives
They should really fix it tho
@real bay even without reaping outlaw still viable tho
unkempt shoal
Is 25.6k Sim with 412 ilvl too bad ?
royal lantern
ilvl doesnt really mean much for dps
stats/sockets/azerite pieces push your dps by a ridicolous amount
spare dust
when im forced to choose between potting during BL or during vendetta, what do i do?
rigid mango
Probably BL, it's normally better afaik
rigid mango
Does it? I thought it was just better value to use it during BL than vend, pretty sure I asked the same question several months back
spice surge
Well, ideally you line up vendetta with BL
rigid mango
ideally
tropic ocean
@rigid mango well it depends on the fight
rigid mango
Of course
tropic ocean
and yes its better value during bl
rigid mango
for example, my stormwall kills where at 6.20
tropic ocean
and when you use bl
rigid mango
When we get off the boat
tropic ocean
so you save 2nd for vendetta
cobalt pelican
some guilds wait for 3mins
rigid mango
oh yeah
cobalt pelican
depending on comp
tropic ocean
on jaina you wont use 2nd pot with bl
spice surge
Thats really stupid
spice surge
Since 4m is just stricly better than 3m
real bay
@languid ore yeah it is but not bonkers for reaping like now
spice surge
na
rigid mango
I mean it litearlly is better for a lot of people
cobalt pelican
depends a lot on raid comp
cobalt pelican
generally a 2min timer is better than a 3min timer but eh
spice surge
and boom everybody is happy
tropic ocean
on stormwall we save long cds anyways
rigid mango
so my vend's never lined up w bl
tropic ocean
so we dont need to dps stop 1 boat
rigid mango
since it wasn't worth missing 1 for vend + bl
tropic ocean
on left boat i have no problem with that
i vendetta kathrine
vendetta after transition
and vendetta with bl
in 5.35 kill
charred lantern
should i get 3x Echoing blades for m+, or 3xss? Also are there gears which have SS and EB at the same time ?
rigid mango
I'd recommend going 2 ttk 2 ss 2 eb instead
3 eb 3 ss leaves you as a full aoe blaster, with really quite lackluster ST
and at that point, you might aswell play outlaw so 🤷
charred lantern
what s the ttb
rigid mango
twist the knife
tropic ocean
opulence helm, rastakhan shoulder, conclave chest will leave you with
2 ss 2 ttk 2eb
charred lantern
i see is twist the knife > double dose in ST situations?
tropic ocean
and sets you for any affixe
tropic ocean
no, but it has more value in m+
rigid mango
not for raid
tropic ocean
since you spend more time fighting multitarget, than st
charred lantern
3xDD 1x Nothing personal
tropic ocean
again, heavenly depen on your/your raids goal and encounter
charred lantern
i see
tropic ocean
to get highest possible dps on 1st, 2nd and 3rd boss you want some ss
if its the most efficient dps, no
tropic ocean
oh and rastakhan too yeah
charred lantern
okay so is stacking NP worth it?
tropic ocean
depends on encounter
rigid mango
but falls of after 1st one
tropic ocean
and/or if you need burst
rigid mango
you ALWAYS want 1
charred lantern
wow
tropic ocean
i guess for first boss for example if u have a little over 1 min killtime
with 3 ss 3 np you'll blast
with exsang too
charred lantern
i see thank you guys
spare dust
im on blockade :p
and i dont know what the kill timer will be exactly, but our dps is very low
tropic ocean
for blockade u surely want dd nps
spare dust
so i think if i hold for BL i lose a vendetta
tropic ocean
if u lack dps
spare dust
i mean the BL question
tropic ocean
dont hold
spare dust
yes, dont hold. but do i use pot on vendetta or BL?
drifting cloud
vendetta
spare dust
ok, so i might as well just pot+vendetta asap when getting off the ships
spare dust
oh oh, discrepancy in opinion!
rigid mango
dude
If u use it flat out
in a vacuum
it's better with BL
We've already had this conversation, you're free to look through it @drifting cloud @spare dust , it's literally 5-10 min ago max
It all depends on the situation you're in, but if you compare it flat out, you're wrong.
spare dust
are there any sims for this?
rigid mango
🤷
spare dust
or how would i sim for this
rigid mango
Like the convo says, with BL is higher dmg, but you want vend + bl + pot
idk when you guys hero so
spare dust
yes, but the entire point is, i wont get all 3
spare dust
yes mythic, after the double adds
rigid mango
Wait, isn't that like SUPER late?
drifting cloud
wait youre lusting on double adds
spare dust
yes
drifting cloud
that sounds super bad
crisp steppe
idk when you would pot but
rigid mango
^
crisp steppe
vendetta is 30% dmg and lust is 30% haste
marble hemlock
and 3min cd classes hold 1min and d ont miss out on one set of CDs
crisp steppe
probably pretty equal
drifting cloud
well seli if they have over 6min kill
spare dust
i should talk to my raidleader about bloodlust
drifting cloud
its better to do it on 3
spare dust
our kill will be over 6min
rigid mango
Yeah
spare dust
our dps is very low
rigid mango
That's fine
crisp steppe
@rigid mango do you know which is better?
rigid mango
BL
crisp steppe
ok
marble hemlock
well, then it depends on when they pop BL
rigid mango
If you're litearlly in a vacuum and nothing gelse matters
marble hemlock
if its 7min kill
rigid mango
BL + pot > vend + pot dmg wise
marble hemlock
you can j ust delay vendetta 1min to line up with bl/pot at 3min
without losing a use of vendetta
crisp steppe
yeah
rigid mango
Yeah I mean sure
marble hemlock
depends entirely on the killtimer, or predicted killtimer
rigid mango
I'm just talking absolute dmg numbers
marble hemlock
and when BL is being popped
crisp steppe
but honestly the dps check on the boss is really easy. wouldn't worry to much about where you use your pot
rigid mango
My kills were at a perfect 3x vend usage
which means I couldn't hold vend for 3 min hero which was what we were doing
4*
4x*
so I just potted with BL instead of any of my vendettas
crisp steppe
but what if you haveo n use trinket
rigid mango
I mean it's less about worrying and more about getting the msot out of it, no?
rigid mango
I mean possibly
crisp steppe
but yeah not worth discussing TBH 😛
rigid mango
I was using GCB I think
So it wouldn't have mattered, maybe if you're running plumage
spare dust
soo my takeaway is, talk to my RL to play around me, which is reasonable tbh
rigid mango
I mean
Talk with him to play around eveyrone
hero 4 min which means 2 min cd classes get it good
crisp steppe
you should hero at 4
spare dust
metamorphosis is 4min?
rigid mango
Just using it at a random point is quite bad
spare dust
we're holding 3min cds for the 2nd guy on the boats
so yeah 3mins are ready at 4:00
but idk how that overlaps with everything
crisp steppe
yeah
tropic ocean
we lust after 3rd? adds i think
and then just tunnel boss
depends on your raid dps tho
spare dust
how high is your raid dps in phase 2 during a kill?
just wondering what a decent number is
crisp steppe
idk but its really not that big of an issue I think
spare dust
yeah thats part of it
spare dust
but i wont go much higher. my guild is quite special lol
crisp steppe
then double adds - all ranged should swap to those since they coincide with sirens and letting them come to close is gonna hurt
after that you'll have a huge amount of time to finish off the boss
spare dust
having BL up for those adds rght
crisp steppe
basicly put the next set of adds in the back slow them and you probably have like 30-40sec? idk
spare dust
hmm
crisp steppe
no need to have it up for those adds
as long as ur ranged swaps
the only issue is thinking you have plenty of time to kill them and then sirens spawn as well and ppl panic. at least in my guild.
spare dust
thanks for the feedback guys
strange python
Which traits you want to have vs jademasters? I am going x1 DD (can't more..), x2 SS, x2 NP
civic palm
meager basalt
kk i checked pins couldnt find it ik its somewhere, looking for info on the new az system comin in 8.2 and which essences we want to target as sin
meager nebula
essences are still being tuned currently so there is little reason to try and find out the best ones
civic palm
None it's still early PTR.
It's still so early that some seem hopelessly broken even.
spice surge
There isnt much "targeting" to be done either, since its very likely you want most of them
civic palm
Yeah.
spice surge
And swap around based on what youre doing
meager basalt
fuck
civic palm
They're also not hard to get.
meager nebula
that and you will get all of them by just playing the game
spice surge
^
meager basalt
tyty both
fresh coyote
Haven't played sin in a while. What trait combos are most people going for high 20+ m+?
civic palm
Some combination of;
Echoing Blades
Shrouded Suffocation
Twist the Knife
meager basalt
3 ss 3 eb youll be fine
meager basalt
dont sleep on haste either
civic palm
Just bleed more things :3
cobalt gyro
haste is p awful for m+
cobalt gyro
ya i run 8%
strange python
Where I can see that @civic palm ? The top traits on each boss
strange python
Thanks
fresh coyote
2ss 2eb 1ttk and 1NP okay?
solid nova
M+?
fresh coyote
yes
solid nova
Yes then
fresh coyote
I can go 3ss 3eb, but im thinking that may hurt ST on high tyran keys
solid nova
Could swap the NP, Depends on alternate choices
fresh coyote
alternative to NP is rezans fury
solid nova
3 ss, 2eb, 1 ttk 
fresh coyote
Also we are stacking mastery for m+ to a certain extent right
civic palm
Yeah get, literally as much Crit as possible.
fresh coyote
gotcha
outer ruin
can you feint crushing doubt dot and area dmg ? I assume no and yes
tropic ocean
There will be a time where mastery will be worth more than crit in m+/aoe situation so sim sim sim
languid shoal
whats the current "build" for sin rogues? talents/azerite
meager nebula
it varies if you're talking raid or m+
raid its DD and NP i believe
m+ its a mix of SS EB and TTK
languid shoal
lets go for M+ and ok 😃
young socket
Why is TTK recommended for M+?
cobalt gyro
it gives you very strong priority damage if you're running TB on top of ity
young socket
Is TTK less desirable w/ exsang?
young socket
I guess what I mean is if you had 3xSS for example, would TTK+TB still be worth running over exsang
vapid delta
Is there any jaina rogue pov vids with legendary logs?
Or I'll take optimal jaina dmg with less padding if I must 
hot flume
Had to switch to sin from OL on Mythic Jaina since the dmg output is less RNG and there is no cleave (if you are not just playing to show how big is ur D). And Sin seems to have changed slightly and I have some questions if you could provide some answers I'd be glad
First things first, Stacking NP trait seems better than stacking TC traits, and still raidbots says that double TC is better than double NP and I can't figure out why. If you see any reason I'd be glad to know.
Second, is it ok to refresh garrote/rupture during vendetta or TB windows or should it be avoided ?
Third, are we still aiming to have maximum uptime on EP and Evenom buffs ? Or shall we pool Energy for TB windows ?
strange python
Avoid but dont let them drop.
hot flume
OK so I don't bother with pandemic during those windows
cobalt gyro
Ideally refresh early so you don't have to, but yes
strange python
As for the tc vs np stacking, go with what sims best for you and your situation.
cobalt gyro
You don't really care about maximizing env or EP uptime unless you're inside a cooldown window, like tb, and you always want to enter a TB window with as close to full energy as possible
hot flume
OK so that's i've been missing on
strange python
Rup/gar uptime, and aim for 2+ env during TB and you will be fine
hot flume
Shall I save TB to build last combo points and env right after or just press that button when it's up ?
strange python
Mash on cd.
cobalt gyro
Ideally TB on cooldown
So you should prepare for it early so you start TB with as much energy as you can, and as many combo points as you can
hot flume
A while ago we would TB even with full CP to get an env out directly
Is it still worth ?
hot flume
OK great thanks
cobalt gyro
Obviously this changes depending on the fight/mechanics, since using TB then having to run away is worse than just holding it
But for the most part, yeah hit it when it lights up
strange python
^
hot flume
Yeah but the fact is that on Jaina timers are soooo fucked up
You dunno when the bitch is gonna cast her ring of ice and it's pretty annoying
Tried to hold up on TB and ended up losing on a window and tried taking the risk and had to leave with half the TB windows left
cobalt gyro
On M Jaina: I eat first ring with cloak, hold vendetta/TB for 2nd, we don't see third
hot flume
OK will cloak first one if needed then
And I hold vendetta after second as well as it lines up pretty good. We don't get third either
tropic ocean
For jaina, since only really p3 dps matters
You shouldnt sim 5 min patchwerk
But 1-1:30 min patchwerk
Probably np stack >>> tc
hot flume
Hum okay you might be right. Got only two NP sadly and I'm considering saving my residium for 8.2 from now on
Dunno if it's worth to spend them for one trait that I'm not sure to get
tropic ocean
its your personal decision
personally with the increase tr I guess saving residium is only worth if you can instant buy a piece so idgaf 😄
hot flume
Will try all of this tonight to see if I get higher. Might need to practice on a dummy as well to make things automatic and focus more on fight events
tropic ocean
the thing is theres a difference between to possible highest dps or the most effective dps in jaina fight
if you have no dps issues, might as well pad and log
if you have dps issues it will be smarter to focus on jaina dmg in p3
hot flume
We are still stuck on P2. We don't really have dmg issues. I just feel that I can do better that's all
tropic ocean
well then you should try to focus on playing the mechanics correct and optimizing your dmg to jaina
having a higher log/number in details will just work on fools
shouldn't worry about that too much 😃
hot flume
Yep but I have no issues on Jaina mechanics 90% of the time let's say. But needed to know why I'm not getting out the dmg I should. It's more about playing the spec correctly than getting a high number. If you wipe you don't parse anyway so that's not the issue at all 😂
But if it can help skip some mechanics, get the boss faster to 30% then it's a win
tropic ocean
due to the mechanics of the encounter after p3 your dmg will be naturally higher than in p2 wipes (since you cleave elemental, have bloodlust on wall, 2nd pot vendetta etc)
hot flume
Yup agreed
tropic ocean
you don't really need/want to get the encounter faster to 30% I mean, you need to do the barrels anyways and need to wait for the broadsides (unless you are opening all barrels in begin, whcih I doubt) so you naturally have a given time by the encounter itself
😃
hot flume
We usually open the third and second at the same time
And with the nerf coming, we might just kill the elemental before interrupting jaina
tropic ocean
yeah should be ez after wednesday
polar tapir
U kinda have to kill elemental come wednesday, since it's basically free to do so
no point in having the extra strain with interrupts and healing on elemental when u dont get stacks from Jaina anymore in that phase
hot flume
Yeah that's why we are planning on it
We might even wait for Cooldowns to come back actually
marble hemlock
doesnt jaina flash freeze still hit you sooner or later if you dont kill the block?
never done it that way, so im not sure if the flashfreeze has a "max" range where it hits
or if it keeps extending
hot flume
It stops once you kill nathanos
marble hemlock
yeah
but it keeps extending until you do
so you still need to kill the block, at which point you will start getting stacks
polar tapir
no...
hot flume
Yeah, so kill Nathanos stops the spreading, then kill the add. Then interrupt Jaina
polar tapir
stacks don't apply until after u interrupt Jaina
marble hemlock
oh its until players interrupt jaina
polar tapir
ye
marble hemlock
i thought it was nathanos interrupting her
hot flume
From wednesday
marble hemlock
reading comprehension = 0
hot flume
Actually, you start stacking when u kill nathanos. On wednesday you start stacking after interrupting her
marble hemlock
hmye, that makes p3 kind of a joke without having to deal with heart of frosts
polar tapir
you get nathanos out, to stop the shit on the ground, then kill Ele coz it's free, interrupt jaina and chill starts stacking again 😃
vast forum
Also having all cds for p3
marble hemlock
yeah, i thought it was just a tiny delay now where you didnt get stacks until nathanos interrupted flashfreeze
vast forum
Will make it a joke
marble hemlock
but thats pretty big
hot flume
Yeah P3 gonna be a real burn phase
polar tapir
it is, together with 5% nerf, should make it fairly easy, as long as you can execute the strat somewhat well
hot flume
If you are able to handle P2 clean, P3 gonna be a joke
marble hemlock
tbf, dealing with 2 elementals and the heart of frosts in addition to the arcane barrages might still not be super easy
hot flume
Why 2 elemntals ?
polar tapir
when the big one splits
hot flume
It splits into many smaller ones, not just two
tropic ocean
but u kill them before u kick jaina
marble hemlock
if you kill the big one, 2 slightly smaller ones spawn
tropic ocean
it splits into 2
hot flume
You can burn them quick right ?
marble hemlock
they have ~60 or 70% of the hp of the big one
hot flume
Oh okay thought it was many of them.
spice surge
Yeah they have like 2M hp and you probably still have BL
marble hemlock
nah i doubt
spice surge
So they should die fast
cobalt pelican
you don't have lust but they die pretty comfortable
marble hemlock
wall takes like 15-20sec depending on DPS
hot flume
I doubt bloodlust to be honest
marble hemlock
and the big one will take another 20-25sec
cobalt pelican
the split heart of frosts aren't the exact same as the full heart of frost aswell iirc but idk about that cause i only play rogue
marble hemlock
also gotta focus block first, then swap to ele
marble hemlock
in any case, it makes p3 much more comfortable for progressing guilds due to not having to deal with heart of frost there
hot flume
The 2 small eles have the same ability as the big one ? and they don't split further right ?
hot flume
OK thanks
dusk thistle
How do y'all deal with trash packs of 4+? Is it a case of fan of knives-ing and then Rupturing everything? Or just focusing down a smaller amount with Garrote, Rupture, Envenom?
rough yarrow