I may be min/maxing too much as a 403/404 rogue though.
#assassination
hasty brook
spice surge
Cabal is not a full ST fight
Not at all
So no, singletarget sims are not applicable to a boss with multiple targets constantly :p
hasty brook
Gotcha. I break to silence adds and such but mostly go from one boss to another until aggro is established and I can multidot for faste.
haste*
I will try switching to more NP then
marble hemlock
In general its just a boss where you play a lot around your 2min CD dps burst
By utilizing the promises of power Debuff and pop CDs during that, and then just play safe when shit is happening around you. Thats why NP+SS works very well, since youre boosting your 2min burst the most by running those 2 traits (and theres multiple targets for SS)
hasty brook
"promises of power Debuff" being the small swirlies right?
spice surge
Its the 90% hp reduction and 90% damage increase
marble hemlock
a player gets a debuff called herald of xyz
and then they have a circle around them for 10seconds, at 5 and 0 sec left, people standing within that circle get the debuff that the healer has in shrine on last boss
so utilizing that and timing your big CDs around it is pretty huge
hasty brook
ah ok. I have gotten it before randomly on me but I just run out of raid range
I can cloak that no? VS waiting for a dispel?
Sweet. ty all
sick cradle
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
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solemn meadow
heyo
tribal marlin
You should be safe without having to cloak debuff.
Better save cloak for some shitty timing (around void stone) so you can clear both Bubble and Crush
wispy kernel
2x EB or 2x SS? Which stacks better for mythic+?
tribal marlin
2xSS
wispy kernel
Ty mate
tribal marlin
I mean, EB is fine but it does not have any value in ST and have very limited value under 3targets
little forge
It depends on the dungeon and how big your pulling
tribal marlin
Best is both ofc but if I had to choose between 2xSS or 2xEB I would definitly take 2xSS
tribal marlin
Run 2xSS and try to find 1 EB (at least) on the 3rd piece
wispy kernel
Cool! Yeah i have the choice to have both but have the choice to either run double SS or EB
tribal marlin
well 1xSS 1xEB might be fine too for fortified week but anyway you'll not have an optimal setup without a combination of at least 5 EB and SS
wispy kernel
Yeah! Thanx tho’! I will sim it tomorrow to make sure 👍🏻
little forge
I’d prefer to go 2 of either and commit to that trait if I had to choose
Probably SS and try for priority damage if group has good aoe from other sources
rigid mango
@wispy kernel You want atleast 1 SS and 1 EB minimum, I'd recommend aiming for 2+ SS traits but sticking to 1 eb, 2+ TTK's if possible
ivory parcel
Is Fan of Knives still the best combo point generator for multiple target scenarios? I can't seem to find the talent or whatever that mentions that you build points w/FoK
Or is it just about getting poisons on stuff now
Found it, Seal Fate
rigid mango
There's no talent
With EB traits (echoing blades) you FoK at 2 targets+
With DD (double dose, raiding) you FoK at 4+
With neither
you FoK at 3+
ivory parcel
Thanks!
tribal sand
ss for M+ still right
rigid mango
"You want atleast 1 SS and 1 EB minimum, I'd recommend aiming for 2+ SS traits but sticking to 1 eb, 2+ TTK's if possible"
finite yarrow
dense blaze
Is there a macro I could use to swap targets on Cabal? One that only cycles between the two bosses without targeting the apparition
coarse quartz
did the jaina kick macro break?
/cast [target=Jaina's Tide Elemental] Kick
not working for me
summer valve
that should have never worked in the first place
you can't do target=npc
what can and should work is target=boss2
spring iron
17%haste am I doing well now, coach?
cobalt gyro
I literally just use focus target
strange python
The top traits is x1 EB, x2 SS.. what more?
bronze kelp
otp?
bronze kelp
top build for what
m+ ?
nearly any combination of EB SS or TTK is good, but 1 SS + 1 EB are mandatory
strange python
Yes, I do m+ and raid
bronze kelp
then take one of the above
TTK for better prio target, SS for better low target count cleave, EB for AoE
a 2 ttk 2eb 2ss build is good thing to aim for
spice surge
Assa just cant have à set that works well in both raids and m+
You just need multiple pieces to swap between.
real bay
be prepared for hefty respec costs if you don't have many pieces yet
strange python
With these traits you can do m+? @cobalt gyro I saw ur raidbots
cobalt gyro
nope, not running m+ with those
rigid mango
Just try to get a mix of ttk/ss/eb @strange python
Safe bet, will work out
You can minmax later when you get more pieces
strange python
:)
leaden garden
Weap enchants = 1 haste procc and the other crit or mastery? For st
spice surge
Whichever sims the highest
leaden garden
Another question, all guides says use tb on cd, but a mate told me to never use if 1 or 2 cp, only 3+ to get a envenom of directly after, is this correct?
deep meteor
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spice surge
Both are correct
You ideally want to have as much resources available as possible when pressing tb, but delaying it to build resources isnt worth it
Since if you delay it by 5s every time you'd lose a cast every 5:th cast
spare dust
Better to misuse it than to not use it at all
cobalt gyro
You'll have to be playing out of your mind to get it perfect at 5CP every time, and since that's unlikely, using it on cd is the better choice
Assuming you'll get full use of it anyway
vast forum
crit RNG somewhat prevents us from planning cp usage
leaden garden
Thanks for the replies guys! Much appreciated
tribal marlin
playing assa on cabal is so coolxD
I can spam everything without any concern and being full energy most of the time ....
tbh you don't loose that much dps (if any) using TB at 5 or at 0 cp
if you only fit 2 evenom in TB, you'll probably fit more mutilate so more DD procs (maybe) the damage difference is pretty low
but you'll loose tons of dps if you miss some TB cast so better not delay it at all
raw arrow
hey , i just got into 120, what would be a good haste percentage to pursuit? im at 10% with 350 ilvl
mint peak
There is no magic number just get as much haste as you can
solid nova
At that item level, stats are largely irrelevant. Better off just getting gear as item level will largely outweigh secondary's
solid nova
Not anywhere close to having to need to optimise stats tbh
And when you do come to that point, you should just top gear sim
There's no % points to aim for
raw arrow
ok , yes i was thinking that too, need to farm some gear before to get into stat comparision 😃
thanks
broken crypt
lol nice, i just got a 425 socket cannonball runner and it beats my sin trinkets hard
distant lava
hate to break it to you bud but cannonball is a fraud
distant lava
but 425 w/ socket is a LOT of stats
broken crypt
it doesnt proc properly eh?
distant lava
it procs
but doesnt do dmg if there is elevation / the boss moves
it sims good cause in sims it always does its full dmg
that doesn't happen in m+ and not very often in raid
balmy snow
During bosses like Jadefire or Rasta, is it more efficient (more dps) to open on just one or to DoT up everything then go into the opener sequence? I find myself a little lost for the first 15 secs as it feels wrong to to just stick to ST as to get my opener out of the way, but see that the other mobs/boss don't have my DoTs on them D:
balmy snow
With x3 SS do I garrote boss A then B then A then open on boss A? and no
not subterfuge
bleak spoke
Always play subterfuge with ss
balmy snow
oh no sorry i am
bleak spoke
Ah okay
Garrote 1 Garrote 2 Garrote 1 Rupture 2 Vendetta 1 muti 1 until you can rupture 1 then get to toxic blade is how I play it
balmy snow
i see
bleak spoke
It’s also fine to rupture target 1 first and just vendetta right there and toxic blade it
But try to not cast any ruptures in tb
balmy snow
then what about on rasta, since you can get 4 garrotes out before it goes on cd, do I garrote everything then open on the first mob or do i just stick to focusing on DoTing up 2 mobs max in opener?
bleak spoke
Don’t Garrote 4 times
balmy snow
yeah, worth asking just incase xD
bleak spoke
It’s g1 g2 g3 r1 vendetta then you fok to 3+ Tb the vendetta target and spam fok envenom
Then when target 1 has 6s of Garrote you vanish and g1 g2 g3
A properly done assa opener smacks like every spec in the game, even outlaw sometimes
balmy snow
Got it, that makes sense
I have noticed that even at like 340 ilvl I was opening at 21k dps
bleak spoke
Yeh ilevel scales intensely
balmy snow
ngl was very confused for a good few days
bleak spoke
When you get a bunch more gear you’ll do like double or triple that doing the exact same thing
balmy snow
Right now I'm at 387 trying to find better trinkets and weps, and better stats than just mastery and vers constantly
bleak spoke
Mastery is incredibly strong for multitarget so don’t be too worried
I’d work on ilevel I think at 387 ;o
Trinkets are sadly hard to come by, but freehold, kings, siege and shrine are where you want to go
balmy snow
Yeah... I've been simming everytime i get a piece of gear, just to make sure and I bag it if it's better ilvl but worse stats
bleak spoke
As to weapons, main hand ilevel is king
balmy snow
I think my trinkets are okay, First Mate's Spyglass 365, and Mekka's trinket at 385... ya, I've been unlucky with weps
bleak spoke
Be on the lookout for weapons cache emissaries
And luckily the dungeons that drop good trinkets all have daggers I think
balmy snow
Yeah I've been doing my best to chase wep WQs/emissaries or rolling on trinkets/weps
bleak spoke
And also Tol Dagor has a dagger, always need a rogue there 😃
balmy snow
Yeah I should probably spam some m+... actually since this is my first time ever somewhat "Maining" a dps in a raid as opposed to just playing dps offspec... since I main healers and have never really DPS'd in a raids much as I will on this char, is there anything I need to know?
other than sim everything
xD
bleak spoke
People expect rogues to know how to do everything on the downside, but we can actually do almost anything in dungeons
I recommend you watch guides from dratnos on m+
There’s an assa guide from season 1 but most of it is still relevant
The rotations etc haven’t changed
balmy snow
I have noticed that I know people say assass rogue is kinda pooper in m+, I still manage to keep up with everyone else so I'm beginning to question it, unless those people are meaning specifically for higher end +15 and above keys
bleak spoke
I play assa in 22s :x
balmy snow
or im playing with bad people
bleak spoke
People probably have bad experience with assa rogues at low keys cuz lots of times it’s a get it or don’t get it kinda thing with good assa dps
Like every time you figure out what you need to do in a situation your damage will climb
balmy snow
Yeah I'm starting to get used to it and get a good feel for the spec in m+
bleak spoke
Most rogues I know love assa in m+ even the ones who only play outlaw
dense quest
3x eb too good
bleak spoke
Just keep in mind any spec can be made to work in keys under bleeding edge ones
balmy snow
Oh here's another thing I've noticed, sometimes I end up being energy starved in 2 targets, and the only time i end up being able to cast envenom is when TB is up, (or sometimes before, depends on CP gain from muti), is that normal?
royal lantern
the problem is like
bleak spoke
You need to bleed both with rupture and garrote in 2t
Your problem is probably dropping bleeds
royal lantern
when they have a sin rogue in the group they will probably be mush harsher with it cus outlaw is ''better''
bleak spoke
Your e regen is tied to bleeds ticking on poisoned targets
balmy snow
I typically don't drop bleeds but they do drop to 1 or 2 secs sometimes T_T
royal lantern
so when there is 1-2 add pulls where the sin rogue does slightly low dmg its because they dont play outlaw etc....people love too blame stuff^^
balmy snow
ah i see
royal lantern
its pretty much the same for everything tbh
bleak spoke
Yeh
dense quest
it depends on the group
royal lantern
tank died? would not happen with a warrior!
balmy snow
yeah everyone I've talked to about assass rogue in m+ all say its really bad
dense quest
and the ppl in it
bleak spoke
My problem with assa is vanish utility tbh and not having gouge
dense quest
Ive never had problem with m+ group saying assa is bad
bleak spoke
But I also have a problem with outlaw in that I can’t silence stuff
royal lantern
eh, doesnt happen anymore
royal lantern
but at the begin of 8.1 and people noticed how broken outlaw with wits is
i actually got kicked from groups for not playing outlaw(ofc it was 12-14keys)
bleak spoke
People who cant give a specific reason as to why outlaw is better can’t be trusted
royal lantern
but people somewhat understood now that sin with EB is really fking strong too
yeha
dense quest
I think during the beginning of the tier its kinda different
royal lantern
2x OUTLAW!!!
bleak spoke
And not ones like “outlaw does more damage hurr durr “
royal lantern
everytime i read this im whispering the leader if he is planning too pull 8 packs at once
dark crag
12-15 key pugs are the most toxic
royal lantern
^
bleak spoke
For example, I recommend outlaw in freehold cuz you can outrange the spin
royal lantern
my mate doesnt get into 13keys with his priest on a 2,1k score cus they want restro druid
bleak spoke
12-15 keys have people who think they’re good but they aren’t
royal lantern
like really, if he doesnt do his own key or with the m+ group, he cant get into a single key
dense quest
is he disc priest?
royal lantern
deepens on the week
dark crag
Best are td pugs. Whatever you do with canon, it is wrong
royal lantern
in weeks with wounds disc as an example tends too be a bit sucky sucky
ye, had that today again lol
we reach cannons, dh rushes into the cannon and dies, tank blames me for not doing the cannon
dense quest
just shoot w/e then at the end say you got big dps
bleak spoke
On voice with cannons I count out 3 2 1 and make the tank mark himself
If they don’t clear I shoot them
Cba
dark crag
I tricks the tank solo the groups with canon, noone took dmg, priest flames me i do it wrong, he takes next, kills the tank and dies
dense quest
honestly just shoot w/e as long as you dont do the kb on ur mates its fine
tribal marlin
Sin can do as much if not outperforming outlaw in a lot of keys as long as you don't pull mobs 10 by 10
dense quest
blame the healer for not toping them up
bleak spoke
Sin actually can pad as hard as outlaw too
Like
The more mobs the harder eb scales
bleak spoke
I don’t like ct I think ct is trap
dense quest
where outlaw with wits need to pop ad
royal lantern
eh, nobody really plays CT since EB is avaible tbh
bleak spoke
If you’re ever in aoe for more than like 55-58 seconds then outlaw runs out of damage a lil
royal lantern
well, yeha, the problem is that you do more dmg by just spamming fok
bleak spoke
No what ct is terrible on reaps
^
The dpet is higher on fok with large packs
Ct is good for like 4-6 target cleave without giga crit
royal lantern
you actually lose dmg by using CT cus the FOK cast you could have done does more dmg most of the time
bleak spoke
Problem with ct is that it’s energy negative
dense quest
well fok doesnt exactly give you any energy if you have no bleed up either
sturdy python
CT doesn’t give energy either
dense quest
that be op
bleak spoke
Actually mongo yeah
dense quest
ppl would probably run ct in st
bleak spoke
Yeah
Cuz maintaining ct would be e positive
Same way you always ib kidney stunnable targets in your rotation
royal lantern
if we could apply internal bleeding on bosses with kidney and it would not stun
would it be used on cd...?
bleak spoke
Cuz higher dpet than envs
royal lantern
i mean, the bleed dot is quite strong and ticks really fast for energy
dense quest
it would
dense quest
but thats not happening
bleak spoke
On the gripping
royal lantern
implying you can actually stun the gripping
royal lantern
cus every time i do siege 4people spam 2sec stuns on it at once and it gets stun imunnity ._.
bleak spoke
Yeah you can ib kidney it in Tb and get all 3 envs guaranteed
It’s kinda troll
Cuz the e regen will refund the points from muti and from the kidney
balmy snow
this is going to sound 
but what is CT and what is EB
bleak spoke
Err the energy from muti rather
royal lantern
crimsont tempest, 100 talent
bleak spoke
Crimson tempest and echoing blades
dense quest
crimson tempest and ecoing blades
royal lantern
and echoing blades, azerite trait
balmy snow
ooh
royal lantern
why does venomus wounds not show IB in its tooltip baseline btw
bleak spoke
Who knows lol
dark crag
You need to spec it
royal lantern
feels like that many people dont really know that it works with IB, cus it only shows when you take the talent
royal lantern
it says IB,but only when you take the talent, wich is stupid
bleak spoke
Like something dad asked me last season when I was evangelizing for ib was like “what is the only pack in fh that can wipe you if a cast goes off”
Etc
Reason why I get ib in siege is cuz I hearth out and spec assa with master assassin when we don’t play spotter anyway lol
tropic ocean
lol
dry wren
Is it worth running the CoS legs on Jaina? I assume not as you're quite low for the burn phase
flat ocean
Do you think we will run memory of lucid dreams as a minor trait?
Could replace vigor
bleak spoke
tried it a bunch with deeper strat
it felt really bad
maybe with mfd it's different
cuz with DS you really uh
flat ocean
Energy starved too much or?
bleak spoke
it's more so that if you get lucky with muti it's not enough
to finish i mean
and if you don't get lucky with muti then it's really lame
flat ocean
Yeah true
bleak spoke
or don't get at least 3 from one of them
flat ocean
What do you think will be bis essences for patch werk
flat ocean
If traits/talents stayed the same
royal lantern
hard too say cus there will be tuning, but blood seems op
bleak spoke
the big hit in your vendetta window just smacks
like blood of the enemy into a nice tb window
flat ocean
Yeah blood looks pretty dope esp with MA
bleak spoke
and you shit on everything
flat ocean
extra 35% on MA env
royal lantern
like, with blood of the enemy your vendetta/envenom crits feels like legion sub rogue dfa crits
bleak spoke
it does yeah
bleak spoke
like wearing current gear + blood + MA it's overcap crit for me
royal lantern
wait, you can crit during ma?
flat ocean
lmao
bleak spoke
just because you're right doesn't mean you're correct tryan
bleak spoke
me too xd
royal lantern
ik that it doesnt happen that often etc....but it feels soooooooo fking bad when it does
bleak spoke
for sure
flat ocean
do we only get 1 major essence?
bleak spoke
like i always go env muti env
yeah 1 major + 3 minor
1 of the minors is also your major
flat ocean
yeah the slot doubles up
bleak spoke
i think all things being equal you'll probably play something like blood + engine + lucid + idk
err, there's no + idk cuz that's three xd
basically engine gives you insane mastery and lucid when it procs is both versa and energy cost refund
so you'll go very fast and hit very hard
very consistently
with some huge burst potential
royal lantern
sin rogue with high apm?
bleak spoke
no
royal lantern
wath year is it
bleak spoke
still very low apm
but like
apm's the wrong way to look at it
cuz like
we still play the same probably
where we pool at the times we pool
royal lantern
yeha, ofc, just faster
bleak spoke
just the times when we're active it's just active longer
like when we open vendetta we actually go pretty fast
flat ocean
if you run 3x overwhelming sin plays pretty fast atm
royal lantern
tbf, sin rogue is the 1 spec where the low apm feels good, cus its based around it
bleak spoke
i think the raw stat ball from engine of ceaseless progress will probably win in the end tbh
like
you can get some stupid mastery with that
flat ocean
i think you might swap vision with lucid depending on energy regen in 8.2
bleak spoke
nah i think vision is a trap
unless you can line blood of the enemy with every vendetta
then maybe you play vision minor blood major
actually that might be it
cuz 16.5% off 2 minutes is uh
flat ocean
about 1:40
bleak spoke
yeah 1:40
blood activation is 1:30
but you'd probably delay to 1:45 or 1:50 so it'll be active for vanish window
and then you'd sync vendetta with 2nd vanish anyway
for a shorter fight
flat ocean
Atleast theres a lot to theory craft for sin
bleak spoke
big issue is that stuff might be hopelessly de-synced
and we might just play nightstalker
flat ocean
Kinda like the essences if theyre tuned well
bleak spoke
it's only like 3% behind for me right now
flat ocean
what do you even do with NS?
bleak spoke
then you'd just vanish for empowered rupture
bleak spoke
like the way you play ns i think is you gmr vendeta and then muti to 5 and vanish rupture or something
i guess you'd do blood muti tb after or something
kinda like a lame MA
except when you hit you hit giga hard
royal lantern
well, yeha, but like i said, stuff will get tuned
royal lantern
cus i honestly dont see blood going out like that right now
its bis for pretty much everyone
flat ocean
Even if blood got nerfed tho i think sin is maybe the best spec for it after ele
royal lantern
naaaah, many people would love more and bigger crits pal
firemage too
or destro locks
bleak spoke
mastery's actually better for destro right now
bm hunters love crit though cuz of that trait
flat ocean
Yeah true but do they have more synergy with it outside big crits?
like we have MA to pair with it
royal lantern
well, as a stat yes, but more and bigger crits with chaos bolt?
crits are great for everyone, doesnt matter if the stat itself is good for you too build around or not
bleak spoke
yeah chaos bolt is guaranteed crit with dmg scaled to crit%
flat ocean
True destro probs pretty good with it too then
I think if tuned properly it might still be bis for classes with synergy like assass ele destro etc
royal lantern
is it great for sub btw?
flat ocean
if it's retuned probs not
I think vision will be great for sub
better dance windows
when it procs
flat ocean
Mmm true
if it's good at all it will be good for sub
it can take advantage of rng procs extremely well with the current build
basically always have a dance window up
royal lantern
you think that sub will still have shadow dance in 8.2?
i thought they gonna remove it too fight against the ranged dot overload
balmy snow
@bleak spoke a +7
royal lantern
tbf, the other dps classes in your group are also heavy based around setup/build up
royal lantern
yeha, thats always good
unholy dk can deal absurd high lvl of dmg if you play around it
but aint gonna happen ever in a pug group
balmy snow
yeah some mob packs he was doing much more than me
sometimes he was on 35k dps
idk
i barely do keys
balmy snow
royal lantern
but,well yeha, you need too play around it, doesnt work in normal key groups
balmy snow
is it worth wasting CP on TB to have all 5 CP so you can 5CP envenom immediately?
royal lantern
yeha, its not perfect, but better then a TB delay
balmy snow
got it
In the ideal world
you sit at 3CP then TB i assume?
Without delaying TB i mean, if you can line it up
royal lantern
3 or 4 yeha
balmy snow
Thanks 😄
bleak spoke
@balmy snow not bad 😃
balmy snow
thanks 😄
sick cradle
Is potion of bursting blood ever worth considering?
spice surge
No
strange python
are stormglide steps that good?
golden relic
they r pretty pog in certain scenarios
dark crag
In sims they are king
copper kestrel
meager nebula
the boots follow the same rules as OP, so the uptime is generally pretty high except for jaina
dark crag
Jaina kills boots because of the frostdebuff, all other fights are ok because even if you drop stacks, they built up pretty fast
peak saffron
are the stormglide steps worth using on Mythic Cabal or is there too much random damage? still not sure what damage knocks off the buff and what doesn't haha
spice surge
Breaks on the add explosion
That seems to be the only thing that knocks it of from what i can see
glass seal
!guide
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meager nebula
fading ocean
that seems like it would actually be decent for sin, no? @modest violet
fading ocean
true
fickle viper
what the fuck tho, isnt that thing like 370 baseline
rapid spindle
world quest trinket dam
modest violet
@fading ocean need another dagger and I'll be sin
coarse carbon
Settle an argument here for me if you brilliant minds would please... When it comes to pandemic effecting rupture, what is our ideal time left to refresh rupture with 4 and 5 CP's?
I've always ran under the impression that with 4CP's up, we refresh with ~7.4sec left... With 5CP's, we try to refresh with ~5sec left.
crisp steppe
It's on ravenholdr
cobalt gyro
I just refresh 7.4 regardless of cp's
spice surge
7.2 is only if you're refreshing with 5cps
marble hemlock
the maximum possible pandemic durations for rupture are 6sec and 7.2sec respectively
garrote is 5.4
civic palm
Where'd this 7.4 come from > _>"
marble hemlock
its people mixing up garrote and rupture
coarse carbon
Good question Mizerok... Perhaps a number I got in my head some time ago and it just stuck.
marble hemlock
so 5.4/7.2 = 7.4 😄
civic palm
Yeah that's my idea.
marble hemlock
it generally does not matter at all whether you refresh with a 5cp rupture at 5sec left or 2sec left
civic palm
Ye.
marble hemlock
the only times where you want to refresh bleeds at the maximum time possible, is if youre running exsang
civic palm
Just don't let it fall off or interrupt your burst windows.
marble hemlock
and want to get the max duration bleeds up before using exsang
coarse carbon
Exsang is so 2018
drifting cloud
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fleet whale
so Unbound force is definitely broken on ptr lmao
cobalt gyro
broken in w hat way
fleet whale
the minor effect
gives you like 100% crit 70% of the time cause of how fast it stacks
it got a new minor effect
fleet whale
it's suppose to be every time an ability doesn't crits, you gain a stack
and at 20 stacks, you get 100% crit for 6 seconds
problem is i think it's counting autos
bug or not, it is kind of interesting now... reminds me of shoulders
crisp ledge
it's like having Mantle back 😍
lone junco
civic palm
lol
untold jasper
is there a problem with simcraft using 2 on use trinkets?
drifting cloud
no, 2 on use trinkets are just really bad
but not sure how it prioritizies which one to use first
untold jasper
Gotcha, ty
civic palm
2 on use trinkets with the same CD, is bad.
echo cargo
Can you use Crucible boots on Jaina?
cobalt gyro
you can, but after phase 1 you won't get more than 2 stacks
hoary apex
does offhand ilvl matter?
like does a 410 in offhand do more dps than a 405?
or is it just the stats?
cobalt gyro
to an extent but no, not really is the short answer
hoary apex
so just use the best stats?
cobalt gyro
use what sims best
coarse plank
Just gonna drop a couple questions in here. First time in the raid on my Rogue, so please don’t tease. 🙏❤️
On Champions do you put bleeds on adds for energy and padding. Or do I just sit boss. I assume bleeds on the adds?
Jadefire Masters, I just keep bleeds up on both and the spirit add when it pops up and just priority target The monk.
Conclave, do I actually go put bleeds on all the raptors?
Stormwall on Phase 2, do I bleed the adds, or just stay on the Boss.
❤️
tribal marlin
I never put bleed on the adds on blockade, but I only do mythic so maybe you can in hc. I don't think you'll win any boss damage doing it, but it can pumps a bit more overall.
For conclave tbh I think it's a waste, I just use a few FoK and Rupture one if on melee and outside of TB window
rancid spade
it depends on how long the adds live but tl dr:
champions. garrote 2 adds then focus boss
jadefire bleeds on both
conclave garrote 2 bosses then focus one boss (rupture raptors if they are nearby)
stormwall sit boss and shadowtep adds garrote rupture them and come back to the boss (ignore sirens)
tribal marlin
Sorry but I really have bad times reading "blockade" part of your message
You are actually advice him to do useless padding on big add and to ignore the add (sirens) that are actualy a threat for your raid.
I mean, padding is padding ok but damn this mentality 😮 nvm...
rancid spade
in my raid the sirens usually die very very fast so is useless to focus them and only dot the big adds when you have sprint up
hollow stone
You should save step to bait a siren if it targets you imo
When you get tossed off by siren you can step immediately back on
tribal marlin
Well if they are killing it fast enough I guess it's pointless
hollow stone
Yea
tribal marlin
In my raid we melee are killing sirens while Casters are just pumping on adds/boss
hollow stone
Thats usually how it goes. And sometimes you cant swap siren right away cause sea swell lines up with it. I think its the 2nd spawn
Anyway. Og question answer is to just go full st pump on boss and swap sirens if youre group needs it. Dont dot big add (imo)
tribal marlin
I usually goes that way too in most scneraio I avoid unecessary movement especially during progress
But if you feel confident doing it well why not
I still pretty sure it's a waste of ressources, boss damage wise.
I mean, you feel like you get more energy regen so you win boss damage, but in fact you are using more energy than you recover
marble hemlock
Multidotting for energy is a very minor dps increase on the maintarget, so for fights like Blockade or Champions, its usually just a question of whether your damage on the add is needed. If so, do it. If they die without your interference, its rarely worth to multidot in situations where you have multiple targets in meleerange, so when you actually have to run over to mobs to dot them up (i.e. elemental on Blockade being far away) it is not going to increase your damage to the boss itself
tribal marlin
I do put Rupture on the add spawned by Zaxsaj but I don't put garrote
marble hemlock
Thats why all the high-ranking blockade kills, filtered for boss-damage only, have 0 or maybe 30-50k damage to energized storms (the adds in p2) and just blast the boss really
tribal marlin
It fucked my garrote rotation to do so
marble hemlock
Ye
Keeping a second garrote on a mob is usually fine and a minor increase, i.e. garroting the elemental on Jaina P3, but the main issue is the maintenance of the poison on that second target. You will have to either style that mob or atleast autoattack it for a while, and that is a dps loss that is rarely made up for by the additional energy you get
Not to mention the resources you use to get those bleeds up in the first place
So most people I know either don't multidot for energy to gain more singletarget at all, or if they do, only right before TB comes up to have more energy to spend during TB
tribal marlin
Ye I see, that's why I do on M Cabal but not on jaina for exemple.
Because I play with 3xDD on Jaina and I don't want to use FoK
while I do use FoK outisde of TB on M cabal anyway
restive inlet
Not to derail what you guys are talking about, but I have a question about the master assassin opener. is the reason why we do vendetta-vanish-tb-mut so vanish and vendetta stay synched? Because you could possibly get two envenoms inside with other globals. I'm just curious, I don't doubnt that the guide opener is the highest simming option
subtle drift
Hey guys, i just read the season 3 affix will mostly be https://i.imgur.com/i0P4U4Q.png which means burst damage for a specific target is pretty good. My question is: do you think that assa bleed build will be superior in M+ since outlaw get a nerf anyway? Or is it to soon to think about it?
My thinking is that exsanguinate will be awesome for this kind of affix
tribal marlin
Well if you do Env Mut Env you have 50% of doing Env Mut Mut insteed :/
Plus you have to open Gar Mut Rupt (Vendetta) Mut Mut then TB, mean you might be energy starved during TB, unless you pool a bit and do Vendetta as 6th global, in which case you will waste 5 precious second of your potion.
That's my guess.
bleak spoke
@marble hemlock on my ill fated near rank 1 (was so ahead then wiperoni) I remember getting two ruptures that ran full duration on two different adds and refreshed the dot with fok in envenom/vendetta, I think if there’s 3t it’s a slight gain but I could have also been super lucky with crits
I think @cobalt gyro saw that log
restive inlet
Yeah, makes sense. I miss the legendary shoulders:(
bleak spoke
@tribal marlin with my crit it’s more like 35-40%
Env muti muti isn’t bad cuz if you get a dd proc it’s big
Dd crits like 50k+ in Tb vend
civic palm
If we had 100% crit for 6 seconds you'd be spamming MUT with 3xDD
bleak spoke
Like Tb env vanish muti until buff falls haha
civic palm
Vendetta before all that.
bleak spoke
Yeee
I think if blood of the enemy crit chance isn’t nerfed that might be the rotation
I think they’ll probably tune the % dmg increase on crits more likely
civic palm
Depending on how some of the regen traits/essences roll out we might be using fucking Venom Rush at some point, don't quote me on that.
restive inlet
I don't like this washed up MA talent. But it just sims so much higher for me atm
bleak spoke
I love the idea of ns tbh
Yeah I was testing venom rush on ptr
It didn’t feel good
civic palm
But don't you wanna stab... two TRILLION times?!
restive inlet
Venom rush lol. God forbid
bleak spoke
I think engine might get through as is cuz it’s not seen much spotlight
civic palm
Still waiting on that Blindside trait > _>
bleak spoke
I’m dumb
civic palm
8.2, the left-side patch
restive inlet
smoooorc
bleak spoke
That is such a brain dead way to play the spec nooo
civic palm
I doubt it will get there.
bleak spoke
I really hope mp doesn’t start to outscale yet
civic palm
ehhhhhhhhhhhh
cobalt gyro
i have at least one of those azerite shards by me
civic palm
_>
cobalt gyro
at all times
bleak spoke
I think the best treatment of blindside is if they took it off the gcd
cobalt gyro
and made it generate 2 CP.
civic palm
lol
bleak spoke
When EP baseline
civic palm
Blindside to Default Kit, find something else.
bleak spoke
What was ep like in legion
lost horizon
Ago poison yikes
bleak spoke
That’s hot
civic palm
What you don't wanna track AA's to min/max AP?!
Yeah 15% was stupid.
20% EP was when MP buffed PB as well.
bleak spoke
That’s hot
civic palm
Swingest of patches.
bleak spoke
What was this poison bomb meme from legion
civic palm
Use it.
bleak spoke
I keep hearing about it
lost horizon
PB was filthy in legion
lost horizon
Yeah
bleak spoke
O
lost horizon
Especially if it procced in mantle
Essentially it hit way harder but less often
So especially on short fight lengths you could just fly if you procced a lot
civic palm
IMO, it hit more often.
lost horizon
And at the right times
Iirc the changes to normalize it were big dmg nerf but increase in proc rate
lost horizon
It's possible they changed how it procs too
lost horizon
Idk if they shifted it to deck of cards style or something
civic palm
Fuck not even 25%
Useless.
👌
ST opener tastiness
PBOMB did 3.5M DPS in that opener
Seems fine.
Anyway, Poison Bomb was very stupid.
and we're blessed to have what we have now.
OTL fucking obliterated Nighthold huh?
=\
spring iron
do I have too much haste and not enough crit???
I'm noticing a dip in my damage
19% crit
16% haste
tribal marlin
You have not enough crit and not enough haste :3
bronze kelp
what ilvl are u?
spring iron
407
bronze kelp
hm... what are your other stats
restive inlet
spring iron
sims say I should be doing 21k on patchwerk style fights
I was outclassed by a havoc DH
403
drifting cloud
21k at 407 is pretty low
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
drifting cloud
eb is 0 dps trait on st
spring iron
Ruinious bolt is only other opt
bronze kelp
does more dmg than EB on singletarget
fallen bay
is it fcked when you dont have even one SS in M+ ?
bronze kelp
as u play subterfudge in m+, u want 1 ss, to get even more use out of the 3 silence
real bay
triple SS and BBI proc beefy damage
leaden garden
Hey guys, noobish question; I just watched a youtube asa guide by some guy called infexious. He says to pool around your envenom buff, to maximize uptime of it, I never do this, I just evnveom when at 4-5 cp regardless of the buff...is this very wrong? Also I sometimes overwrite my elaborate planning buff...is this a huge dps loss? Should I track these 2 buffs and play around them? Atm I only pool for TB windows..
summer valve
you should pool but you don't need to track the buffs
if you just wait until ~120-140 energy before envenom it'll happen naturally
leaden garden
I dont quite understand you. I pool for EVERY envenom or u mean during tb window?
royal lantern
when tb is close too come up, you pool for the envenom
leaden garden
Ya but outside tb
royal lantern
if TB is just used, you should wait with new envenom cast until the envenom buff is close too run out if possible
leaden garden
Ah ok
summer valve
basically if you always wait until 120-140 energy after you're at 4-5 CP
that'll be around when your env buff runs out
royal lantern
get your mulitates out during the envenom buff and then wait too re-apply the buff
summer valve
it's easier than trying to track the buff
so you env -> muti -> muti (if needed), wait for energy, then repeat
royal lantern
i like that you say 2nd mulitate if needed, even thought you do 2x mulitate 90%of the time
^^
summer valve
well with bbi + deadly nav up in my m+ gear i have like 70% crit lol
so sometimes during tb i just get 4cp muti chains in a row
so it's just muti env muti env muti env
royal lantern
yeha, those juicy 3x envenom TB windows
spice surge
You're using MA with a shrouded trait
solemn meadow
thought you need more than one for it to be good
and I simmed it and it simmed less
so idk
solemn meadow
I simmed with Exsa and Subter and it simmed less
spice surge
Not exsang
But if you arent using subterfuge with SS you're essentially wasting one of your azerites
solemn meadow
damn is stacking NP that bad?
solemn meadow
Do we want Stormwall head or first boss?
solemn meadow
thought maybe you want tc
tyvm for your help
We dropped mekka chest last id but sadly didnt get it
light rampart
On the whole pooling thing. I’ve been actually timing my envenoms around elaborate planning and never ever actually looked at the envenom buff. Should I maybe have a go around?
(As in pool then envenom at at4/5cb and then another envenom when elaborate about to fall)
spice surge
No, you rarely even play around EP
You only "clip" the last bit of EP with envenom if you know you have enough energy to do another 2x mutilate in the next few seconds OR its near the end of tb/vendetta
meager jolt
Heya,
I have recently come into posession of an azerite armor that made me switch from subterfuge to Master Assassin for the first time.
I know am curious what abilities i should use my vanish on. From the guide i understood that the first vanish should go into toxic blade mutilate envenom chain, but is that the case for all further vanishes as well?
heavy skiff
There are many different ways u can use vanish
Tb mut env is the save one
However u can also du mut env mut in ur vanish
Using tb before vanish
U can go tb mut vanish env mut env
That last one is rly good if u have a ttk trait
But its risky af u gonna hate it more times u love it
@meager jolt
hazy iron
are the crucible feet actually worth it? there's always passive damage going out in raid
vast forum
Not all dmg breaks them
hazy iron
oh nice
vast forum
For example, on mekka, only the bombs and avoidable dmg cancel the buff
royal lantern
deepens on the fight, and there is not always passive dmg going out
vast forum
But on jaina chilling touch breaks and they're worthless
vast forum
Also, apparently nothing on conclave breaks them
hazy iron
nice. I'll do some research and keep them in my bags. thanks for the tips
topaz stag
ok ty
onyx rock
@hazy iron the boots are totally fine except for mythic Jaina
vast forum
I think they break a lot on blockade as well
rocky ruin
Would you guys take 2 NP or 1 NP and 1 TC?
onyx rock
I would sim it but NP is always a save bet so i would go for 2x NP
...if its in the same Azerit
meager jolt
@heavy skiff Thanks for the answer. i think i will try myself through those options.
strange python
This week we can push with these affix, the past week was... ugh
bleak spoke
“Any week that isn’t teeming is a push week” - @ruby idol
royal lantern
wath about bolstering?
distant lava
more like what about grievous
tropic ocean
Bolstering makes ttk even better
royal lantern
yeha but dungeons take ages cus you need too pull so carefully
golden relic
not a bad super shit week , annoying for healers if anything
bleak spoke
Yeah lots of hard healing checks
distant lava
waycrest manor 
prime quail
bleak spoke
My healer got blown the fk out on a 20 waycrest yesterday, was a friendslist healer and not my main healer but holy fk we were play gigadefensive
Tbf we didn’t lust cuz someone trolled and banged the drums on a pack outside
And it was close
distant lava
yesterday was which week for you ?
tropic ocean
TryanToday at 2:08 PM
yeha but dungeons take ages cus you need too pull so carefully
actually nope
you just pull, trim high hp mobs so everything dies equally and stun/interrupt like you normally do
its not the worst weak, annoying for heal thats it
we had the exact same week some months ago and several #1 keys pushed during it
turbid zealot
Or february.. which feels like last year
tropic ocean
???
vestal wren
wrong channel brutal
tropic ocean
or wrong discord?
turbid zealot
Shit thought this was off topic. Whoops
sand gust
hey i know this is guna sound like trolling but im really a noob so i know u need a dagger for assassination an i also know u need assassination spec for raiding and outlaw for mythic plus but do you need 2 daggers for assassination or can u wear 1 dagger in main hand and a fist weapon or mace in the offhand
tropic ocean
u need daggers to use mutilate
solid nova
^
tropic ocean
and outlaw/assa are both fine for raid and m+ so play what you like/are best with
woven summit
Assassination is better for single target but Outlaw is also viable. Play what you want as long as you are not in a top 100 guild.
spice surge
Atm you can play whatever almost regardless of what WR your guild is
woven summit
As there's no progress now, true.
spice surge
The only fight where there is a big difference is uunat
But thats mostly due to shadowstep VS grapple, rather than anything else
strange python
Hi guys! Can someone tell me which is the best combination to go ST and AoE? Because I usually do m+ and raid HC/MM. Or is it a bad idea to go hybrid? Thanks
x1 SS/EB
x1 DD
x1 SS/TTK
x1 NP
or
x1 SS/EB
x1 SB
x1 SS/TTK
x1 NP/RF
spice surge
You can have 6 traits, not only 3
But also, going hybrid as assa doesnt really work out well. The best aoe trait do nothing on ST and vice versa, which makes you have to be mediocre at everything if you want to be a hybrid
Having a 400 azerite piece with aoe traits is gonna let you do more aoe than 415 ones with ST (and the other way around too)
strange python
If it is so bad ... I would like to know then how to combine my traits to be a beast on ST. Thanks
obtuse cedar
You should sim as always, but DD/NP/TTK are generally the best traits for pure single target
SS works very well with subterfuge on fights with adds (Jadefire, Rasta etc)
And EB generally doesn't suit raiding environnement
strange python
Right now I'm going right this, but
x2 SS
x2 NP
x1 DD
x1 RF
Or remove x1 RF (rezan fury) to have x3 SS or x3 NP? Sorry for asking so much
You should sim yourself using top gear. Then you can link your sim here and it is easier to help you :) @strange python
I only knew the Stat Weights section, sorry, I'm going to mess with the Top Gear
full flame
We did it boys, finally got a lurker’s gift trinket. Haven’t tested it in a raid yet. How lovey will the envenom crits be?!
hasty brook
I personally love it @full flame . I pop during open rotation and my burst hits up to 50k ish I am 405
spice surge
How high you burst is gonna depend on your traits, you can get 110k+ envenoms, but that requires 3x ttk which isnt optimal in raids
You can burst like 80k dps if you have 3x NP and 3x SS, even though thats not the best setup for overall dps, it does massive burst
full flame
I’m running 1xttk 2x dd 2x NP and 1 tradewinds
Tradewinds is meh but not much choice on the piece i have. If it procs in my opener though...2k more mastery
desert kelp
are there weakauras so I could display Rupture/Garotte uptime on a target?
spice surge
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
desert kelp
aight ty fam
royal lantern
mother of sockets
Didnt you see the +
marble hemlock
😦
royal lantern
bad rng happens
hasty brook
I think the most mine hit for is 45k...
royal lantern
i dont like it that everytime you die while the trinket is up, it shows the trinket as the reason you died
died too avelanche? it says i died too suffering
simple meteor
don't suffer tell them to heal more
royal lantern
tbf, i cancle it at 20stacks in p2/p3
hasty brook
I have simed myself and I can not get anywhere near as high evis as you all seem to be getting
lost horizon
They're talking about envenoms with TTK trait specifically
simple meteor
you mean envenom?you need TTK
strange python
Here you have guys, what info can you get out of here to help me to get more dps? Get azerite 415 and rings and trinkets 400? Anything else?
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sHsiqW6yoNingvqRkn7gCd
spice surge
Should put MA in there also, probably a couple of hundred more
hasty brook
This is the most I got on the simc. I switched to MA for one but it dropped dps by 100ish. If that even matters.
This was using all your items in bag and possible talent choices. idk if it helps. TBH I ignored what it told me for trinket on mine
desert kelp
Do I pool for toxic blade?
hasty brook
odd. I picked that and it didn't go that high. I have the 4mil combination one. Maybe I need to upgrade my sub for more combinations
upbeat maple
What's the best Loa blessing for assassination, i'm using paku currently
simple meteor
need to increase on the free one for us the plebs 😥
spice surge
I mean, i just removed the ones which i know arent gonna sim the highest, no point simming thunderous blast for example
Its 11M for premiums, but most of the sims can be condensed into <4M if you know what to look for
hasty brook
Good point. I only see it needing more if you have several diff types of gear in bags
simple meteor
idk waiting time on 8.2 will be crazy i prolly will sub just to avoid that when new patch is out
hasty brook
Yeah I got tired of waiting 5 minutes for just 350 combinations lol.
simple meteor
desert kelp
if I have 5 combo points and toxic blade is 1 sec from up
do I use an envenom or waste 1 CP and use toxic before envenom?
spice surge
Wait and use tb at 5cp
desert kelp
what about hte pooling, new to assa swapping for raids from outlaw
do I pool for toxic blade at all?
upbeat maple
What's the best Loa blessing for Zandalari Trolls?
spice surge
@upbeat maple Herodamage.com
upbeat maple
thanks
fading ocean
so how exactly does smeld work with shrouded/subterfuge?
vast forum
on dungeon trash/in open world, you can meld-stealth so it's basically a vanish
on bosses/raid trash, you can meld-garrote to only get the SS bonus without subterfuge
fringe epoch
whats peoples thoughts on the new CoS gear? the new trinket is obviously good but the rest?
desert kelp
how "long" is the time I should wait if toxic blade is about to come off CD?
simple meteor
boots aswell works with trinket
you should pool a bit before toxic comes off cd waiting while toxic is up is a waste
simple meteor
2-3 envenoms on tb window yo usally want 3 is kinda hard
hollow stone
@desert kelp dont let rupt or g fall, dont overcap energy, dont overcap cps. As long as thats all good, pool to your heart's content. You dont lose any potential dps
Theres no magic amount of pool time
@simple meteor 4env tb windows or bust. Dont you crit on every mut??
strange python
Thank you @spice surge and @hasty brook . I am checking it
simple meteor
outside of cds no i dont crit in every mut 😄
hollow stone
Pfffff. Just crit more
desert kelp
okay
simple meteor
give me new boots maybe something happens there 😄
desert kelp
but realistically is pooling a dps increase with Toxic?
fading ocean
yes
desert kelp
Aight I'll look deeper into doing that then
spice surge
But that doesnt mean you should delay tb
fading ocean
just hit a dummy, play around with how much energy/combos to pool and see with your amount of haste how hard it would be to hit 3 envenoms
its different for everyone cuz haste/crit values
sturdy python
Someone look at my logs please. I was sucking bad last night and I can’t figure out why.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/RCktnHf3q1GdmcQA#fight=5&source=56&type=resources&spell=104
hollow stone
As long as you dont drop dots or overcap, or delay tb, or delay other cds. Then yes
Theres a lot of "ifs"
sturdy python
I haven’t touched sin for a bit and it’s showing
And losing to the other rogue is an absolute no (nothing personal Jahaa if you’re reading this)
desert kelp
you're goddamn right
hasty brook
Why is it not okay to lose to them?
real bay
losing only if deded
sturdy python
Cause I want to win
sturdy python
Yes
Normally yeah but it’s okay for the opener
Need the rupture out and need the SS pandemic
solemn meadow
I am sorry but what does pandemic mean?
sturdy python
First garrote is 18s but the second cast adds 30% to the new application so it’s about 24s long
solemn meadow
thx
sturdy python
Also why you can refresh bleeds early
solemn meadow
in AOE you just garrote 3 targets right?
sturdy python
In general yeah
solemn meadow
When I use garrote in stealth
and then out of stealth while its up
does the damage get reduced?
or is just the timer longer
desert kelp
empowered gets reduced
sturdy python
You need to let the SS empowered garrote run out
fringe epoch
you need to refresh it with subterfuge up
if you have a garrote up from stealth
otherwise let it tick off then apply new 1
mint kindle
Hey guys, quick question. Hope this didn't get asked multiple times already: So on Herodamage.com, it shows that the Trinket [Lurker's Insidious Gift] is way above the other ones, dps-wise. However, when I try to sim it with my gear, I get a 800 dps decrease. Oddly enough, the trinket I changed was a 395 Galecaller. Anyone knows why? Or has experience with this?
spice surge
Sounds more like you're using 2 on-use trinkets because you accidently swapped the wrong one
mint kindle
No, going 2212221
spice surge
Lurkers should be extremly more powerful than a 395 galecaller
rigid mango
Lurkers is BiS by a fair bit
mint kindle
I know that! That's why I'm confused