maybe on reaping packs
#assassination
ionic matrix
cobalt gyro
can be
drifting cloud
the level 100 talents in m+ for assa dont make a huge impact
so all 3 are viable, just depends on other factors
like affixes, key level, pulls
sullen hedge
gotcha
i like poison bomb, might just stick to that
better single target too id assume
drifting cloud
yeah
it depends alot on what keys and how high they are you do for crimson honestly
probably flawless would know alot more than me
sullen hedge
i gotcha
drifting cloud
I just pug my weekly, I dont care about crimson when im still beating people by 10k on overall
ionic matrix
I think the main issue with my gear is that I have no choice but to run at least 1 ss. If I could drop the ss and get a dd or nothing personal, then I could drop subterfuge and then it probably would sim better.
civic palm
Poison Bomb also wins if you are playing a prio. damage build.
as you're fucking mashing ENV
solar rose
poison bomb is a good default choice, higher keys ct and hb are really good
also varies on pulls
if I'm pugging, I usually just take PB
civic palm
Does HB demand 3xEB? @solar rose
solar rose
if you're going for that style of gameplay, I'd highly recommend 3xEB yes
civic palm
👌
cobalt gyro
personally been using a lot of PB lately, because i've been running a 2 TTK build
civic palm
Yeah.
solar rose
I usually run 3xEB 3xSS and run HB in almost every key, run more single target oriented stuff in TD/Siege/Temple/Kings Rest
civic palm
Course.
short wasp
So I have x1 NP, x1 DD, x 2 SS, x2 EB. Is this decent for all keys?
cobalt gyro
seems like a waste to run HB or CT when I'm going TTK
cobalt gyro
you generally don't want DD for keys unless you don't have anything else to replace it with (or the other option is trash)
solar rose
DD and NP are relatively bad for M+ and I'd look to get rid of those, more so DD than NP
cobalt gyro
yea, the extra energy from NP isn't too bad
short wasp
I guess my real question is, should I go all in on EB and SS and just scratch any ST traits?
solar rose
it's just the value you get throughout the dungeon vs what you could get with SS or EB or TTK
cobalt gyro
also helps a bit on bosses because you usually run low haste
and sin with low haste feels real bad
civic palm
Unless you are pushing keys the worry isn't huge, and you should focus on doing your role correctly.
Whether it be EB | SS and do AoE or TkT | etc. and do ST/AoE.
solar rose
I would, there's no point gearing for bosses when 90% of M+ is the trash, if you are doing relatively hard keys with hard bosses, you can then swap out some AoE with single target traits. Just an example, I'd take a NP and 1-2 TTK traits in a 22 KR cause if we wipe to the first boss it's GG anyway.
ionic matrix
if were being honest, if youre really pushing keys, shouldnt it be as outlaw
cobalt gyro
ye and no
civic palm
Not 100% IMO.
cobalt gyro
depends what your group needs
solar rose
I've done world first keys as Assa, it's really good still and under valued, the damage you can do is pretty nutty
cobalt gyro
sin is just as good as outlaw for cutting edge keys
solar rose
I've timed a 24 temple, that was WF
drifting cloud
people just think since outlaw is so busted that makes assa poop, but assa is probably still top5 for melee
short wasp
Dang I enjoy M+ more than raiding but I’m so devoted to assassination...I’ve been considering changing to outlaw...but meh...I don’t like outlaw playable
cobalt gyro
meanwhile, even if sin is a bit lower in overall, they don't fall off when mobs don't die in 5 seconds
🤷
solar rose
I don't even think it's lower overall, I usually beat outlaw rogues in overall as assa 
ask @rose perch 
cobalt gyro
that one hero sub rogue, though
civic palm
Probably a rounding error.
rose perch
???? @solar rose
solar rose
Love u ❤
cobalt gyro
fair enough. I usually don't run with multiple rogues so i'd not experienced that
rose perch
🗒
cobalt gyro
limited playerbase on ally 
rose perch
but yeah real talk the flawless build is insane for maximizing overall dps
solar rose
People default to outlaw because it's really easy to gear relative to Assa. Given the right azerite and key level you can really shine
rose perch
yeah i mean you still are also asking for restealths and not vanishing mechanics which is a drawback that is hard to see on the meters too
solar rose
Ya I run 3SS 3EB with a very high crit/vers setup, single target isn't that bad either
cobalt gyro
I'm lacking a 3rd SS or EB with my sets
solar rose
The one thing I like about outlaw in keys is not being so reliant on using your vanish for damage, also gouge is massive, but if you are ok with having neither of those, assa is nuts
ionic matrix
@solar rose obviously you are trying to get 3-4 garrotes up, but how many ruptures are you getting up before you start envenom spam in m+?
solar rose
with 3ss 3eb unless there's a priority target, I'm not using envenom
royal lantern
wich, ofc, means sin is bad, and you should never play it /s
solar rose
I get my 3 garrotes up, 3-4 ruptures, and literally spam fan of knives
cobalt gyro
when I'm running TTK
I usually go g > g > g > r > fok > r and then start dumping envs
solar rose
well yeah, if you're running any kind of TTK you envenom priority target, there's basically 2 assa playstyles right now
ionic matrix
seems like envenom would be worth because it can proc poison bomb, but i guess the fan is just better @solar rose ?
cobalt gyro
he's running HB
solar rose
I run HB or CT
cobalt gyro
so PB is not a consideration on that spam
solar rose
If I'm ever in a situation where I'm using Poison Bomb, I'm also not taking 3ss 3eb. That's a trap, 3eb is kind of a trap in dungeons like KR or temple or even siege
ionic matrix
when you say ttk, what does that mean
cobalt gyro
twist the knife
ionic matrix
understood
solar rose
I go with a kind of weird setup in KR, I take 3ss 1 blightborne 1 NP 1 echoing
cobalt gyro
1 NP is the weird part
harsh sphinx
I wanna try that setup in raid but -EB +ttk at least for a few fights
solar rose
Well, when you're doing a 22 KR or a 23, you really want the extra damage, but you can't sacrifice too much aoe damage to get ST otherwise you'll literally run out of time on the key.
cobalt gyro
ya KR is a key where running out of time is a thing
rose perch
wow twinsies flawless
i play 3ss 1 blightborne 1np in KR also
and temple
although this week i go outlaw in temple
harsh sphinx
Have you tried it on something like rhasta or champs?
cobalt gyro
I haven't done any good keys this week
solar rose
I just go outlaw in every key this week cause you just flurry off orbs and 
I suppose I could go with a 3ss 3eb combo and take PB and just env orbs, wouldn't be terrible
rose perch
ya same i only sin this week in KR with another rogue already playing outlaw
cobalt gyro
last explosive week i wanted to die bc i didn't do any high ones, so all explosives died to the first strike of SS
i wasted almost all my double strikes with wits 
ionic matrix
running double treacherous in raid seems like asking to die. Agree?
real bay
damage taken doesn't stack
ionic matrix
ahhhhh
real bay
if it did yeah haha
royal lantern
just dont lose hp
real bay
just don't take dmg
lurkers interrupting mounting or interacting with quest stuff is p annoying tbh, even out of combat
bleak spoke
Hard to play sin without another outlaw this week, someone’s gotta protect the president @rose perch
royal lantern
doesnt prot warrior get a victory rush proc for killing explosive too?
modest violet
@ionic matrix it’s also worth noting how TC works, you have to take an attack that takes you below 20%, then take -another- for it to have any effect
I.e. most of the time you’re taking damage from a mechanic and you’re below 20% already you’re just dead anyways
bleak spoke
Yes tryan
royal lantern
problem solved, let the lesser party members(AKA healers and tanks) do the mechanics, me wanna do big dick deeps
i hate it sooooo much when that happens lol
civic palm
over here stabbing shit peaking yer trash like it ain't happenin
civic palm
tru
royal lantern
''cries in puglife''
spare dust
Is there an easy way to target explosives? /tar explo doesnt seem to work
little forge
They’re blocked from being targeted by macros
steep obsidian
a good nameplates mod helps
there are also a few weak auras taht interact with nameplates to make them easier to spot
rigid mango
Just make others do it 😄
steep obsidian
i mean if you are a rogue you might just be that guy
rigid mango
if you're an outlaw*
It's always 2 melee minimum for higher keys for me atleast
and dh/outlaw/monks are always in that 2nd spot, and those are all really good at dealing w them
hot urchin
As others have said, the in game name plates work fine for me, you can also make them larger
spare dust
Having only explosives be larger would be nice
edgy pawn
i'm using platers and it automatically marks explosive nameplates
as in they look kinda exploding
hot urchin
For rupture, do you want to only use it at at least 4 combo points ?
I guess 1 or 2 doesn’t make sense but sometimes shit happens you know
rose violet
Combo points don’t increase the damage of your rupture only the duration afaik
tropic ocean
they increase the damage, not the dps
lol
@hot urchin generally at 4 but its fine to refresh with a 3cp rupture for rotational fluidity
rose violet
What does increases damage but not dps even mean
stuck knoll
Yeah that just seems like you're being arbitrarily confusing
What READ said is the best way to describe it
marble hemlock
should combine it
using more combopoints on rupture does not increase its dps, but does increase the duration
leaving more room for other abilities before you have to refresh it
indigo mica
Hey guys i saw a sin doing 240k + dps on reaping yesterday in +15 KR. He played hidden blades and was dpsing also pretty hard on single target. Im wondering because i thought its bretty meh in the long run. You guys go poison bomb for the most party or crimson tempest on fortified reaping keys?
rose violet
@marble hemlock I think this one is for you
rose sky
for ST is 3x Double Dose, 2x Nothing Personal and 1x Treacherous Covenant good to have or would it be good to switch and bring a shrouded suffocation?
tribal marlin
it's a very good setup (the one I use)
rose sky
what do you burst at for dps and then usually stay at after?
marble hemlock
@indigo mica Theres a couple of different builds out there for Assa, each with a specific focus. The one you're describing is most likely running 3 EB traits and then focuses heavily on AoE, which is why youre speccing HB for that as well
I personally am not a big fan of it
But its certainly one way to play if your group lacks AoE damage
For a more balanced approach, I'd suggest playing PB+TB, playing SS+EB or putting in a few TTK traits for more prio damage
Assa shouldnt be expected to carry the AoE on reaping, so if thats something the group requires, playing Outlaw is usually the better way to achieve that goal without compromising singletarget/cleave too much, which is what you are doing by running 3EB+HB
lost horizon
There's an argument for not going outlaw in that situation if you're pulling a shitload of trash back to back, like ML
Cause you'd just starve BF charges
But tbf there's an argument to justify most choices, just try to figure out what works best for your group
maiden siren
Does anyone have the macro with cancelaura for CoS trinket on second press handy?
vast forum
/cancelaura (buffname)
/use lurker's insidious gift
Just don't spam it when activating
tropic ocean
@crude summit highly depends on amount of targets and pull frequency, and well poison bomb procs
vast forum
Shrouded is the best st trait at certain fight lengths
dark crag
Shrouded is good for padding when adds live long enough
vast forum
Shrouded is king on short st fights where the target dies in ~1 min or ~3 min where you get to use vanish twice
dark crag
You sure about that? Why should ma with 3dd 2np 1 bbi be worse?
Ma always aligns vend and vanish, the first supter vanish is a bit delayed in st
spice surge
NP is better than shrouded at bursting
spice surge
Using both at The same time is giga burst
tropic ocean
and yeah depending on key height and affixes with 3x ss and some np with exsang ull go mental on boss
vast forum
Ss is better on shorter fights cuz you get an aditional ss value in opener
So on a really short fight you get the value from opener and vanish, while with np you only get 1 use
2 min later, you get a full np and only vanish value, so the longer the fight, the smaller the opener impact of ss
Basically on 3 min fight, you get 50% more value out of ss than a 1 min fight, whereas, you get 100% more value of np
visual quartz
I mean thats kinda off. A 1min champs kill with 3DD and 3NP burst way higher than the same with 3DD and 3SS+subt
tropic ocean
u dont use dd in short fights
at least not in m+
in 1min kill with 3ss u will use exsang
vast forum
Champs kills are mostly 1.30+ where ss loses value
You can try simming a 1 min fight with 3xss subt exsg
Or a 3min fight
stone mesa
about to progging on jaina should i avoid using 425 lurkers and just use a 410 plummage?
hollow stone
No fuck that. Use lurkers
marble hemlock
use lurkers, cancel at 20stacks after vendetta runs out if you feel like the healers are already struggling as is
solar rose
You have a 425 lurkers wtf never take it off 
vast forum
^
tropic ocean
@visual quartz
3dd 2 np 1 ttk
3ss 2 np 1 ttk
https://prnt.sc/nkf62f with exsang
1min 1 target
stone mesa
only reason i ask is cause it does 85% of my life with no healing.
visual quartz
Sorry didnt see we were talking about M+. Ill have to run some sims for short fights again, always loved Exang with SS
tropic ocean
for champions if u want to log 3 ss is recommend anyways and in 1-1.30min kills
3 ss 3 np will probably be ur best
vast forum
Np loses value with exsg cuz the energy is somewhat wasted
Overcapping with lust on pull
tropic ocean
it still sims higher than tb with the setup tho
vast forum
Not saying it's bad
tropic ocean
for a short duration the fast garrotes and vanishing again to buff garrote is just so strong
vast forum
Just that on my char, ss/exsg sims better with tc than np
tropic ocean
in 1min kill?
tropic ocean
well for 3 i guess 3xdd will be superior to ss
vast forum
Not for me
I'm nelf so ss exsg with meld is stronger than for the majority, aka horde
tropic ocean
oh yeah right
vast forum
It took full bis azerite for me to start simming better with tb than exsg
tropic ocean
with 3 stealth ss is strong yeah
tropic ocean
its not buffed by subt?
vast forum
Not on bosses
Meld just gives it the ss bonus
In m+ trash, meld can act as another full vanish
But in raids (both trash and bosses) and m+ bosses, you only get 1 non-subt ss garrote
ionic dome
Which Gem do you get on Opu.?
ionic dome
IDK. First time doing the Raid as my rogue and was just curious
Thanks
So when I vanish to re-apply Empowered Garrotes, do I put three on the boss.?
Or just one
real bay
let the previous emp drop first and do either double garrote or garrote finisher garrote, if you have 2-3 cps when vanishing
leaden garden
Hey all. If one were to play only one rogue specc for hc raiding and m+ (10-17keys) would asa be alright?
leaden garden
I heard outlaw is better for aoe, but falls behind on st?
sturdy python
It’s not as good at single target as assassination all things equal
tropic ocean
for hc and 10-17 play what u enjoy mate
meager basalt
is there anywhere on details meters tht shows the effectiveness of iron wire
shrewd robin
hi does someone have the open with MA talent pls
buoyant coyote
with MA do i let garrote run out the first time in opener for the snapshotted bleed?
rigid mango
NS 
manic quartz
Can get behind that!
rigid mango
near pilot
im happy with my 410 w/ socket but grats!
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6NSHrdMKXUuvax6j7CvZ1F
finally over 27kk sim!
dark crag
You sim less than my sub, pathetic
lost horizon
Oof
spare dust
Just today i passed 27k in sims, thats not a big boy number anymore?
lost horizon
Nah people have simmed over 29k
spare dust
With crucible cheese gear?
lost horizon
I mean most of it is valid
spare dust
Yeah id love to use some, just not sure how reliable the boots and how happy healers are with me using the trinket on blockade/jaina :<
spare dust
Know anything about boots? Im currently wearing 395+socket in feet slot
ocean rampart
NBD?
spare dust
No big deal
ocean rampart
Oh! thanks.
obsidian sierra
are there any theories / sims / recommendations on the new sockets for hearth with 8.2?
*yet
dark crag
Whats the uptime of boots in sims? Every high sim i saw had trinket, boots, bis azerite and countless sockets. My fake 12 socket sim had 29k
hollow mango
Can vendetta trait be stack?
sturdy python
The damage yes, energy no
coarse plank
Lethal poisons are the three poisons you put on your Daggers right?
Wound/crippling/Deadly
tidal jetty
lethal is deadly/wound afaik
so you can have one lethal + another, usually crippling
civic palm
Yeah the only time you would not use Crippling is if someone else is trying to kite something and it is putting something out of sync.
copper yew
if you're running MA what are the ideal traits, and is MA even worth considering without optimal traits?
lost sentinel
Evasion on coin showrr?
copper yew
doesn't work
nimble tartan
dd np blightborne ttk are dece with ma setup
copper yew
what is blightborne
stable pine
Anyone actually playing sin this week? Lol
civic palm
Probably
solar rose
yeah sin is good
nimble tartan
@solar rose you're good
solar rose
ty
nimble tartan
np
topaz rock
so is assassin decent to lvl as?
civic palm
Nope the other two specs are better.
nimble tartan
sub bis leveling spec tbh
can just talent into all energy shit and itll never feel bad and ur strikes from stealth will tele you it feels nice
spring iron
@stable pine I'm actually playing sin this week.
shy dust
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
errant viper
Guys
Anyone got a WeakAura that works for empowered Garrote? Been trying the recommended ones, but wont let me copy the string of some
And others don't work for EMP garrote
civic palm
Yeah mine.
errant viper
For some reason it's not letting me copy the string D:
civic palm
Just remove the aura from the group with the little Left arrow.
or do you mean you cannot get it from the website at all?
errant viper
Yeah, I can't get it D:
I click on copy string
But it doesn't work for some reason
civic palm
Can you paste it into notepad?
civic palm
Still might not work, GL.
errant viper
Thanks 😄
civic palm
Wonderful!
errant viper
Out of curiosity: Guide says you don't overwrite NS empowered garrote or rupture until it's dropped
Is that also true for subterfuge empowered garrote?
civic palm
Especially so, yes.
errant viper
So never overwrite subterfuge empowered garrote, just wait for it to drop?
civic palm
Unless you are overwriting it with ANOTHER Empowered Garrote, always let it drop off.
errant viper
Got it
Is there a simple way to write that weak aura myself? 😮
I kinda wanna tweak it so it fits nicely in my UI
exotic rose
Hey guys, I'm back playing melee since a long time and I don't know yet if still relevant to attack enemies from behind. Is that still a thing? For both pvp and raiding?
exotic rose
Either pve and pvp, yeah?
royal lantern
yeha
exotic rose
Cool, thanks!
royal lantern
you should stand behind the boss anyway, cus the fronstide is often tank cleave stuff
strange python
Any opinions on the new Leggings of the Aberrant Tidesage for assassination? Finally got them to drop. They're simming a little higher than my current legs but wanted to get others opinions on proc rate, etc. worth using?
bright quartz
on a 6 min fight my 405 legs from there procced to around 2.6% of my overall dmg. sim dps was around 24k. (my rogue doesnt have the best gear^^). so for me, ... i did not equip them, because from the pure dmg aspect, the legs do not give any dmg when u are below 60% hp. anyways. the uptime should be fairly high in bfd. if your sim says they are betterr, then you should gear them i would say.
floral shoal
I was doing mythic+ yesterday, the leggings did about 2,5% overall damage. Going up to 5% in boss fight when I didn't get much damage. Seems pretty good if I can manage to stay above 60% life.
cobalt gyro
It's basically the same requirement as treacherous covenant
And tc is quite good, so
hot urchin
Anyone here stay assassination for m+ this week with success?
golden relic
Yes ive done several keys, but what do u mean by success
hot urchin
I guess completing a 10 or higher
golden relic
y
hot urchin
Did you stay typical MA build and just FoK and spread bleeds or did you go subterfuge?
golden relic
always subterfuge in m+
hot urchin
Even for tyrannical?
golden relic
yes
hot urchin
TB or ex? And thank you for the insight
golden relic
depends on your trait build, if you are x3 SS EX is prob better than TB, but TB is good with TTK and preferable over ex in tht case
hot urchin
That’s the thing, I don’t have SS at all, I’m built for MA/TB
So I’m hoping subterfuge will still do well for what I have
golden relic
Subterfuge is still worth running for Iron wire
crude summit
i noticed how crit and mastery are the best stats for m+ assass rogue but there isn't any bis list for it?
solid nova
Realistic BIS lists haven't been a thing since WF/TF has existed
subtle karma
Do you know if heed my call breaking stealth was fixed or not yet ?
subtle karma
procs from poison dots
vestal wren
tbh you could generate a somewhat accurate bis list
but i am not sure how interessting that is
subtle karma
so you could be stealthed while having bleeds on targets and it would break if heed my call procs :/
golden relic
Problem is every dungeon and affix bring different obstacles and a BIS list would have to change for every dungeon , also not to mention the composition for your group. Outlaw has the luxury of just running same traits every dungeon but if u wanna min max assa then ye you are gonna have to swap alot
ofc u can just keep a build for everything which I think most ppl are asking when they ask for "BIS list"
real bay
assa is fine this week you just want someone else to get orbs
rigid mango
tbh you can do it yourself, and some pug groups'll probs force you to, assa is normally ok with doing it
just that other specs have such an easy time doing them, namely dh/monk/outlaw
distant lava
lol a dude in a group I was in for a key, sin rogue with good rio tbh
was playing 2xDD 3xEB and 1xSS
telling me he could go 3xEB 2xTTK 1xSS for a trashy build
never left a group faster
spice surge
Tbf i do think ttk is slightly overvalued for most People that dont really need or play around the prio
But dd is yikes
distant lava
true but i don't think 2xDD 3xEB is the way to go
delicate sapphire
Should I still be using Poison Bomb for Mythic Oppulence or are the other two choices okay?
spice surge
Poison bomb
delicate sapphire
I'd go Outlaw, but I can't get any weapons for that spec. 
spice surge
The others are mostly for padding on the adds
near pilot
Only need one non dagger for OL
strange python
Assa is fine on Opulence, i wouldnt respec outlaw for it.
cobalt gyro
If you're having troubles with adds on opulence you're having other problems that swapping outlaw won't solve
strange python
What the owl said.
real bay
@distant lava sounds like he went full pepega
using DD for any week wouldn't cross my mind
hollow jungle
anyone been on PTR? what essences are lookin good for sin?
lethal python
ss is still the go to trait? I'm simming higher with 3x dd, 1x np, 1x tw and 1x tc. Most ppl on logs still have 3x ss tho. Is there something I'm missing?
spice surge
!essence
prisma monolithBOT
First research 8.2 Sin Essence notes Thank you Tisumi: https://tinyurl.com/y6ouut2o
spice surge
@hollow jungle
hollow jungle
ty
vast forum
@lethal python SS is good for cleave, DD, NP, TC are better for ST with MA/TB build
lethal python
Thank you @vast forum
rigid mango
dd AND eb is full 
Idk feels like at that score people should really be able to think hard enough to realise that they're not good together
real bay
@distant lava probably did them as outlaw and tried assa for some reason haha, sounds like he doesnt have a clue about assa traits
zenith geode
New to Ravenholdt / my assassination rogue but after simming was wondering what gems to socket for PvE / M+. I'd assume 1 agility and haste for rest?
short pivot
ive been hearing that outlol is better than Sin on Jaina, can someone explain the logic behind that? and is it rly worth learning the spec for that fight?
obtuse cedar
OL pads on adds while sin is doing pretty much only boss damage
BF cleaves barrels/ice blocks down and balistas
Wich results in more dps but playing sin will most likely end up being better for prog
short pivot
so not worth switching? and do i run m+ gear perhaps for more cleave?
ty for prompt reply btw 😄
obtuse cedar
well if you're progging i'd recommend playing sin
short pivot
too lazy to learn that spec tbh
obtuse cedar
outlaw is fine
at this point you can play anything and still kill the boss
but i'd say sin is the most optimal spec if you're willing to kill the boss
short pivot
nice thanks a lot
obtuse cedar
oh and regarding your question about m+ gear i don't really know since i'm playing sin on this boss, but getting wits must be worth it to gain prio dmg while still taking down ice blocks
bleak spoke
@distant lava why do you think dd eb isn’t the play :^)
distant lava
golden relic
DD 
m+
hollow stone
@short pivot ol is used cause you get wits stacks from bfing onto ele for more st in p3. The specs are pretty equal for the fight. Dont learn outlaw just for jaina
short pivot
tyvm
royal lantern
for raiding in general sin is slighty better overall right now in general
rigid mango
For last 3 in BoD yeah
but would say outlaw is contender for msot fights before those 3
bleak spoke
I like outlaw on rasta and opulence rest I play sin on
rigid mango
It's pretty good for JM
Since you can pretty much always have wits stacks up quite high
rigid mango
for what?
bleak spoke
Also on the wall if the orbs go in late it hurts outlaw a lot more
rigid mango
ye obv
spice surge
Where do you need to step
rigid mango
but I mean I just assume this is with a decent group
bleak spoke
To my flag when I hit a bomb eleem
spice surge
Just use the portal and then grappling
bleak spoke
FeelsExposedMan
rigid mango
Myeh I mean I feel like outlaw is good/better on jm, opu and rasta
But rest, assa are either equally good/better
rigid mango
I mean it's sorta same on both fights, why you pick it
bleak spoke
On opulence it’s a lil paddy but blade rush as a mobility tool on accident is giga pleasant
Like during transition when you get a bte blade rush when it’s phasing that’s the 
bleak spoke
My adds died before full 30
bleak spoke
And blade rush smacks on short aoe
rigid mango
I just wanna see how well sin does for azshara
bleak spoke
Cuz you never starve with br
rigid mango
ye
bleak spoke
Detection between mutis
rigid mango
Or just quit 
bleak spoke
A lot of them have expressed frustration with their raid or their guilds have died
rigid mango
Idk what I'm gonna do, on tiny server and my guild was 2nd best
and 1st guild don't want another rogue (I think)
so I think it's xrealm if not even faction swapping time
bleak spoke
I would apply to the best guild on my server but I’d get slapped by flawless and anarchy on literally every piece of content in the game :LuL:
real bay
whatever you do dont swap to ally
bleak spoke
Lool
royal lantern
reading how you all need shadowstep for jadefire maze
''laughs in alliance''
the only thing that is better
spice surge
Why do you need step
royal lantern
idk, in the alliance version the warlock gate is enough, you are at the wall then
rigid mango
I mean I'm ally atm
Might swap to horde on one of the bigger servers to try to get into a decent guild 🤷
dark crag
The maze is different for alliance?
royal lantern
yes? the grong/jadefire arena is different for horde/alliance
jadefire is a bit more easy on alliance cus the maze is a absolute joke, grong is better for horde cus the arena is slightly smaller
desert kelp
What daggers are best for assa? as an outlaw player just giving assa another go and holy balls this dmg is just stupid even with not optimized gear and 395 daggers vs 410 Outlaw weapons
dark crag
The highest itemlvl ones you can get
desert kelp
great
me and my shit daggers are doing 3k more dps than my outlaw spec
what a meme
rigid mango
Well they are good at diff things?
desert kelp
I didn't expect my off spec to do that good
rigid mango
I assume you're just hitting a dummy?
desert kelp
No I'm hitting Mythic blockade
rigid mango
Same thing
desert kelp
pretty much
rigid mango
Should be pure ST
And obv sin is much better than the cleave spec that is outlaw
Well, "much"
rigid mango
it isn't
desert kelp
mine is
rigid mango
Then either you're rng on outlaw is garbage and good on sin
or you're bad at outlaw and good at sin
The diff shouldn't be that big, esp if you're downgrading stuff to play sin
🤷
desert kelp
not really downign
distant lava
most likely you're bad at outlaw
desert kelp
I'm simming so it shouild be all the optimal gear
rigid mango
410 weaps to 395
desert kelp
other htan that
desert kelp
Yet the 395 hits way harder
rigid mango
Yeah then odds are you're doing something really wrong at outlaw
desert kelp
also Djamax that's a rude remark I was sure my rotation is pretty good
distant lava
or your fight lasts 30 secs
rigid mango
If you're overcapping on outlaw
desert kelp
or at all*
rigid mango
you're doign something REALLY REALLY wrong
distant lava
the only way it's rng and not you being not that good as outlaw is if the fight is veryshort
rigid mango
Yeah either your rng is is insane on sin and hot garbage on outlaw
or you're bad at one and better at the other, significantly so
distant lava
sry i'm not trying to be mean, i'm just tired of people blaming it on outlaw's rng
while it's the mistakes they make the problem
desert kelp
oh I wasn't blaming
I was rather surprised
I'll do one go for both on logs and link I wanna know if I really am playing wrong afterall
rigid mango
I mean
sin arguably has more Rng than outlaw
so there has to be smth really weird going on there ngl
desert kelp
well I'ma see here I'ma give both a go here
hopefully around the same match duration
I suppose I should've considered more the fight duration though
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/W83p2MqhRwGQzaVB/ but try #13 is a decently long Assa match without cleaving adds and #17 is Outlaw with slight cleave
pearl widget
Personal Question how many stacks of NP would you guys take?
rigid mango
For raiding?
pearl widget
si
rigid mango
Atleast 1, but they're still top tier as 2nd and 3rd
if it's pure ST, 3 DD and several NP aren't bad
Depends on what your other azerite is abit ig
azure basalt
im running 3 dd/2Np/1bbi because it sims harder (not by much) than 3dd/3np
azure basalt
what piece do has dd/np
rigid mango
2 np would be better if there was a dd np op chest
azure basalt
the head or chest?
rigid mango
head
1st boss helm has op too
but ceph has dd ttk op
only spymasters/mekka chest have dd np
and neither has op
azure basalt
ill have to sim it and see if i have it
azure basalt
i need to see what I have as I have a lot of azerite pieces I haven't scrapped or done anything with
rigid mango
Yeah well it's that one peice
mekka/spymasters are the best, if not for ceph that is the best
and if ur running 2 np then you have either of them
rigid mango
have ceph?
shy axle
with 1x TK/3x SS/2 EB - how do you enage mobpacks ? 3x Garrote and then? spamm FOK and imediatly spread 3 or 4 ruptures or just spamm fok until the garrotes end to maximize EB dmg?
spice surge
Depends on the pack, you need to make sure you always have atleast 4 bleeds up
But you almost always do 3x garrote
shy axle
okay. Do you just spamm FoK if there is no "special target" which has to die asap or do ne normal 5cp-finisher
spice surge
Just spam fok if there are no need for prio damage yes
shy axle
good, thank you
spice surge
Just need to make sure you always have 4 bleeds, so sometimes you weave in a rupture so you have EP up a bit more
But overcapping cp with fok is not a big deal
rigid mango
ep*
drifting cloud
how do you feel a 300 dps increase
royal lantern
by doing more dmg
drifting cloud
💩
royal lantern
wath answer did you expect...?
drifting cloud
you dont feel it, thats the point
nothing different than getting a really fat ring
unless youre actually looking at all your white hits
royal lantern
you dont need too take everything i say THAT serious, it just feels nice too get a weapong upgrade, thats wath i meant^^
royal lantern
and tbf, white hits are a huge part of your dps as melee in bfa
drifting cloud
youre the one that wrote its such a difference, its the same thing as getting an upgrade in any other slot lol
shy axle
i wrote it and under normal circumstances weap upgrades are exspecially big. (if you aint changin some 350 boots with an 415). No need to be overly pedantic thats all
just chill all
rigid sonnet
you guys got anything set up to track dots on secondary targets, not really feeling liky my nameplates are doing it well enough for me and I'm dropping dots off on multitargeting too often
opal minnow
weapon upgrade is empirically more impactful than an equal ilvl increase on another slot in the current patch.
rigid mango
I'd not use stat weights if I were you @opal minnow
Use top gear instead, stat weights can be inaccurate
spice surge
Mainhand weapon upgrade
Offhand is typically extremly non-impactful, and a 400 with a socket is almost certainly better than a 415 without socket
buoyant coyote
with shoes do i want 10 stacks before i use my cd's in opener?
for the 200+ crit
those
buoyant coyote
fair enough
drifting cloud
even if you dont prepot its probably still not advisable
buoyant coyote
i am running MA aswell thats why i was thinking
Due to it being crit
getting 10 stacks is also pretty fast
slow mortar
@rigid sonnet there's a weak aura to track the number of ruptures and garrote out
civic palm
What nameplates are you using? Are you just finding it hard to see them in general?
dark crag
Blizzard ones with flyplatebuffs handcrafted buff/debuff list
mighty elm
Anyone progressing M uunat that’s found a consistent way to shadow step both beams?
dark crag
Step one who already crossed
Sherlock
dark crag
That's consistent as it can be
civic palm
Get a warlock, step to the warlock.
civic palm
step to a mage? There are options.
mighty elm
@strange python does that work?
strange python
Why wouldn't it? I think I even saw Method doing it, or was it Limit or Aversion. I don't remember
mighty elm
Aight I’ll have to test it out, stepping to locks/monks usually ends up with them being to far away , same with mages
vestal wren
#off-topic is for memes/spam
tiny finch
Gnight friends, quick question
On grong do you guys refresh the empowered garrote on the boss or go straight to the 1st set of adds?
with 1 shroud of suffocation trait
the bleed have like 6 seconds left when adds appear
spice surge
Both?
tiny finch
so keep on boss to use on him and on the 1st add right?
spice surge
Why wouldnt you use on all 3?
tiny finch
hmmmm
cursive dune
vanish and garrote all 3?
cobalt gyro
vanish g boss > step > g > g
cursive dune
agreed, if only i had daggers to play it here and there
tiny finch
@cobalt gyro vanish g boss > step > g1 > g2 > Rupture 2 > rupture1?
inland nymph
Is SS generally much worse on single target? I have a range of gear with traits that I could swap in and out but just wondering how significant the difference is/is the effort worth it to swap gear and talents for specific fights?
cobalt gyro
Pretty much yes
rigid mango
But it's better on cleave
Where you can consistantly get sevearl SS g
So for example rasta
on mythic
inland nymph
So fights like mythic grong, jadefire, rasta would be good candidates?
rigid mango
Yeah
SS is generally quite good on those
but for the last 3 MA with 3DD and ST blast is better
Last 3 in bod that is
inland nymph
So then for an environment like m+ would the right play revolve something around as many SS as possible and a fan of knives trait somewhere?
inland nymph
Gotcha, thanks, I'll play around with it. I want to try assassination on some tyrannical keys instead of outlaw, I suppose my biggest problem isn't the traits but adapting the play style to traits/talents
rigid mango
Stacking too many EB's ends up with pad damage more than valuable prio damage which is waht sin excels at atm
Yeah, stacking 3 EB makes you a worse outlaw
goign 2/2/2
is pretty good
or 3 ttk 2ss 1eb
inland nymph
I noticed the pinned messages only contain a general rotation guide for assassination, is there a more comprehensive guide for optimization available? Such as things to look out for in m+ or what to do/avoiding awkward overlaps with toxic blade CD and garrote/rupture falling off?
rigid mango
I mean the 2nd one is just
a thing you learn with playing and mastering sin
And m+ rotation is pretty much you spread 3 garrotes and then a couple ruptures
4-5 bleeds gives you enough energy to spam FoK and envenoms
and you GCD lock
spice surge
Especially for m+ the rotation is really hard to write in a guide because it depends on soooooooo many things. How long targets live, number of targets, estimated time until the targets die, what traits you run, how many crits you get and other things.
Its actually a really complicated m+ spec
rigid mango
Sin has a bit more to it than just press blade flurry do ST rotation
But a lot of it you'll learn from just playing as you see obvious things that you can do/not do/improve on
lost horizon
Well tbf with HB you just FoK once you're energy capping LOL
I wouldn't try to justify either of the two specs being Giga brain in M+
rigid mango
HB
inland nymph
I'm learning that's the case now, I think I'll try it out a few times and see how it flows and figure out some solutions as I go
lost horizon
PB you just put an env in, very complicated
rigid mango
Yeah
spice surge
You're not supposed to energy cap? 🤔
If you're getting close to the energy cap you probably have too many ruptures out
spice surge
4 is enough
lost horizon
Might just be my haste
spice surge
4 Bleeds*
rigid mango
Pretty much if you're running TTK traits (2 or more) just put out bleeds and do FoK to 4+ -> env -> FoK to 4+
Etc
spice surge
The goal is to get enough energy to not be starved, but still have to spend as few gcds as possible on maintaining it
rigid mango
All you do is pump prio damage into 1 target that will die quickly, especially if you have TB on it
hasty brook
What do you guys think is better. 395 [Lurker's Insidious Gift] or 400[Harlan's Loaded Dice]
cobalt gyro
most likely the lurkers but 
cobalt gyro
It's pretty ignorable damage unless you're doing pvp or your healers are afk
hasty brook
canceling at the end helps 😃 thanks all
coarse plank
For reaping. Do you still throw out Garrotes/Ruptures.? Or just spam FoK?
lost horizon
Need ruptures for energy
ionic dome
Is there a macro somewhere to help with Tricks
Instead of having to click the tank frame
civic palm
@ionic dome Depends on how you want the macro to work.
prepares his load
#showtooltip
/cast [@mouseover] Tricks of the Trade
This macro will cast Tricks of the Trade Icon Tricks of the Trade on your mouse over target.
#showtooltip
/cast [@focus] Tricks of the Trade
This macro will cast Tricks of the Trade Icon Tricks of the Trade at your focus. This can be useful if you prefer this over the mouseover option.
#showtooltip
/cast [@mouseover, help] [@focus, help] [@targettarget, help] Tricks of the Trade
This macro combines the two macros from above. Also, if you have no mouseover target and no focus, then it casts Tricks of the Trade Icon Tricks of the Trade on your target's target (who is most likely going to be the tank if you are targeting the boss).
/cast [target="Tank's Name"] Tricks of the Trade
Finally, this is a simple macro if you are usually casting Tricks on the same tank before or during each pull.
ionic dome
Dope. Thank you.
civic palm
NP we can also go fucking stupid with it;
TotT Macro Setup;
/run ToT = UnitName("target")
/run if not InCombatLockdown() then EditMacro('TotT', nil, nil, '#showtooltip\n/cast [target='.. ToT ..'] Tricks of the Trade', nil); print('Tricks of the Trade set to : ' .. ToT); else print('Cannot change TotT now!'); end;
TotT Cast Macro;
#showtooltip
/cast [target=Dalrian] Tricks of the Trade
Second Macro MUST be named TotT
Not usable in combat, IIRC.
Note that this stupid macro allows you to have a Focus set to something else while creating a specific macro with your target players name in it.
winter moss
cos mythic mode cabal: so delaying the first set of CDs for the herald buff is completely ok. weaving in herald buffs depending on cloak cd but do i delay another set of cds for the buff? traits: 1ss 2DD 3xNP
and clears throat you could use nnogga misdirect helper if you dont wanna change the macro yourself every key. selloutmonday
civic palm
1buttonsureishard
winter moss
people are lazy
civic palm
:3
solar rose
I use nnogga misdirect helper and it owns, never have to think about it
winter moss
see, even one of our great gods approve
civic palm
Pfffffft, bet he thinks the earth is flat.
winter moss
solar rose
I wish there were more functions for raid in the addon though, I don't think he updated that addon anymore so not expecting that
have to swap the macro to a mouseover for raid
winter moss
thing is, how would you handle that in raid situations
with a preset list of tanks for everyboss?
how would you handle the identification of the bosses? fight id's? little late for md tho...
questions 
solar rose
have a frame pop up when entering a raid instance of the tanks in your raid and just click it and it auto change it
full auto pilot
civic palm
Minus the clicking bits :3
winter moss
given the tanks are in the raid before you
civic palm
I should also change that macro printer to create a macro that has @valid whaleover and @targetoftarget in it.
Maybe.
Apologies for that stupid tagging.
solar rose
ya I think there's multiple ways to implement it, would be cool.
civic palm
I know very few people that use the macro printers though.
winter moss
tbh didnt even know that those existed 
civic palm
They're very rare, only other time I have seen them come up is specifically when someone asked Seli about it I THINK.
winter moss
some documentation about it?
bronze kelp
@solar rose nnoggas misdirection helper is an addon?
tribal sand
shroud over dd? or dd over shroud?
civic palm
No DD in M+, DD in Raids.
tribal sand
k
marble hemlock
for most people, cephalohide chest is simming the highest
has dd/ttk/op, sims slightly higher than the dd/np mekkatorque chest simply becasue mekka doesnt have overwhelming power
desert kelp
aight, I suppose it's worth of my item restoration to take it back then, I do have the mekka chest too tho
marble hemlock
cepha also is a very good m+ option
so yeah, restoring it might definitely be worth 😃
desert kelp
I'll leave playing m+ for Outlaw, Just gonna try playing assa in raids again due to it being simply just better than outlaw in most fights
while on the matter, which Crafted boots is the best option? HasteCrit or just check my stat prio?
desert kelp
While at it returning stuff might aswell pick the best one from my 4010213120 different boots rolls xd
marble hemlock
😄
desert kelp
can't find having a cephalohide, so Mekka chest was the 2nd best yes?
marble hemlock
mhyup
strange python
anyone having problems macroing Lurker insidious gift to vendetta? sometimes it activates, sometimes it doesnt
lament dove
I have it macroed to vendetta and racial (mag'har), no problems so far (you can also put a /cancelaura insidious gift into this macro and cancel the effect with a second press)
and I also have it like /use 13, not the exact name
weary verge
I use it with the name, no issues so far
real bay
just slightly annoying to change the macro for every use trink
put slots and never touch it again
bronze kelp
yep, using slots is the easy way
strange python
do you put it b4 /use vendetta or after?
fringe phoenix
does feint reduce any damage taken from crushing doubt on cabal?
spice surge
#wow-general Has a spreadsheet on what feint reduces
But no, feint barrely reduces anything in crucible
dark crag
First feint got cd gutted, now it doesn't even has a effect anymore
spice surge
Its time for it to be replaced by detection, the best spell
dark crag
Do you know the name of the addon to show traits on the gearslots or is it an elvui thing?
spice surge
Azeritetooltip
tropic ocean
^this yea
dark crag
Thanks
cobalt gyro
fuck your daggers dude
rigid mango
Doesn't everyone?
bronze kelp
got way to many haste crit items
rigid mango
Good for raiding 🤷
bronze kelp
but i dont raid 😉 just one time for curve
spice surge
You "just" need all of your pieces to be crit+mastery
bronze kelp
^^ and on 415+ with socket 😉
tropic ocean
nah most my pieces are 400-405 with socket
i could eq 419 ilvl but sockets are just so good
rigid mango
If I was still activly playing like I was
I'd try to grind sockets
but legit cba with the luck
distant lava
wdym i like spamming boralus 
rigid mango
idk how many FH's I've done
distant lava
so much that i play with a socketed vigor
rigid mango
yeah got something along those lines
but just cba now tbh
most mind numbing shit I've ever done
Also 2 ppl in my m+ group stopped playing and I hate pugging
so badly
bronze kelp
but cause of that, I guees i could play FH blind 😉
bronze kelp
really? a greased up pig?
distant lava
ALL HANDS ON DECK
rigid mango
Tbh I'm just so bored of reaping
and it bugging the fuck out
I love getting aggro on a critter and tank not noticing so I don't get a restealth for next pack
😄
bronze kelp
hm... im not experiencing many bug with reaping anymore
tropic ocean
78 fh meh
cobalt gyro
you mean TD where one gets stuck outside and foillows you around the whole dungeon keeping you from dropping combat
tropic ocean
laughs in siege of boralus
bronze kelp
in siege, just get your 2nd wave before the boat. since my group does that, i dont have that problem with staying in combat the whole dungeon
distant lava
sometimes i want to play sn
then i remember i mostly do boraluses
where you can't restealth for half the trash
bronze kelp
just play with only one SS, than its not that bad
rigid mango
It still feels SO FUCKING BAD
to not get sub garrotes out at the beginning of medium/large packs
bronze kelp
eb/ttk saves me from bad feelings there 😉
bronze kelp
😉
rigid mango
to not get thta really good energy reg and dmg
rigid mango
I mean you can
As long as you're running 3 SS exsang can sim better
but exsang gets a lot better w GCB and GCB is bad for m+ so
🤷
rose sky
When is the best time to use lurkers insidious trinket with shrouded suffocation opener?
spice surge
With vendetta
tropic ocean
@distant lava depends on key height in lower keys this week exsang is really good
e.g. +13 fh endboss
since the killtimes are so fast exsang with 3 ss is really good
tepid ridge
should we TB before or after vendetta with 1 or 2 NP?
mint peak
Typically you would TB after
spice surge
Why in the world would you tb before
rigid mango
There's no snapshotting
bronze kelp
there is no snapshotting
spice surge
Unless it explicitly states that it snapshots, it doesnt
tepid ridge
yeah yeah I'm not new on the class just wanted to be 100% sure for TB with NP
thanks guys 😄
they put so much strange shit with azerites, last raid my NP just bugged and was "off" (0 damages) 😴
rigid mango
Yeah strange shit /=/ bugs
young jewel
What’s GCB an acronym for?
gleaming viper
hello ! is it ok to spam FoK on Opulence when spirit of gold pop ?
@young jewel its the trinket gallecaller boon
young jewel
Oooh ok
lament dove
@gleaming viper use FoK (have crippling poison up), but pump envenoms into the boss
gleaming viper
ok ok ty
spice surge
Fok, assuming there isnt like 2 targets
But you still need to maintain those 4 bleeds, so typically you rupture whenever EP runs out
Yes, or you envenom a target that needs to die asap/has more health than the others
marble hemlock
You can just do a regular multitarget sim and look at the damage per execute numbers. FoK usually starts pulling ahead on 5-6 targets, depending on the amount of EB traits you're running, so once you hit that threshold of mobs it starts becoming better than using the CP you generated with it
The aforementioned 4-5rupture priority still applies, or envenom for prio damage. But if neither one of those are a concern, depending on target-count, FoK will become better damage per GCD than any other ability
simple meteor
the dream on 8.2 bbi with eb combo on same azerite 
spice surge
Incredibly unlikely since bbi is a drustvar specific trait
leaden garden
Just a fast question...when opening on a pack of 3 mobs, with SS trait, Do I really open with 3 garrotes? Won't that make me overcap on combo points?
Ah okay, thanks
golden relic
BBI 
real bay
garrote 3 and watch you dps fly
or in a bigger pack when you dont need to save vanish for X get 6 garrotes rolling
sick cradle
boys, does the dot on Jaina remove your crit stacks from CoS boots?
hollow stone
Yes
tiny finch
Sims are telling me to stack a 3rd double dose instead of Shrouded suffocation, by 2 dps
on raid situations wich one do you guys prefer?
DD x SF
rigid mango
For heavier ST fights (think last 3 fights in BoD) DD is better
But in any fight where you can get 2+ empowere garrotes off, SS is better
strange python
DD/NPx3 on all bosses cuz im lazy and cba to swap around.
tiny finch
Like grong right
strange python
😄
golden relic
same
or well i swap chest to the conclave one with TTK/SS if i need SS for like rastakhan , thats basically it
cba
tiny finch
Trying ass for the first time in raid
just switching back to outlaw on Opulence and Jadefire
tawdry helm
for AOE damage in M+ is it better to stack echoing blades 3 times or use SS as well as echoing blades?
any advice on best combo of traits?
rigid mango
Stacking 3 EB is like becoming a worse outlaw (imo)
You're better off using a mix of TTK, EB and SS
if you have gorak tul's, BBI + SS is really good
going something along the lines of 2/2/2 is a really stablee build and will do you no wrong
You always want an SS atleast, and 1-2 EB
rest you fill out with more TTK's, more SS or stuff like swirling sands/bbi
slender sonnet
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
woven summit
spice surge
Unstable and overwhelming
Heed aoe is so small its basicly ST
Unless they've been massgripped
golden relic
BDks in m+ in 2019 
civic palm
I think it might be changed before launch but seems a little silly atm.
rigid mango
20% crit on each pack will make EB next gen stupid it feels like
spice surge
You cant fok with it
It cancels whenever you hit a second target
Or i assume it applies to abilities too and not just autos
Could be wrong though
meager nebula
I believe it cancels when a second target is damaged
hasty brook
According to Warcraft logs on The Restless Cabal (normal) many in lowish 400 range pick SSx3 and NPx3. Once in a while someone tosses a TC in the mix. Simc didn't show that to be the best over all. Should I be stacking NP for burst on this fight?