I mean at 8.0 sub was great😂
#assassination
trim forge
lost horizon
cause if not then it's probably just unusable
@royal lantern i actually feel you
i fucking hate ES
languid ore
Give them preparation back and make it into a little PvP spec and shove them in a corner
Spec fixed
rancid elbow
@lost horizon It's actually updated, and works with my DH and my warrior really well!
lost horizon
yeah i remember lmao
you're best off looking for support from whoever developed it @rancid elbow
it's possible rogue is unsupported in the addon or something
but you'll be hard pressed to find specific info on it here
trim forge
I would be fine if sub was a pvp spec.... I mean I would prefer for the dps only classes for each spec to have a niche
lost horizon
rework it into a ranged spec, throwing stars and shit
which then forces all rogues to play the ranged spec
e z
trim forge
Wait ... I thought outlaw was our ranged spec!?! Pistol spam ftw!
lost horizon
nah the niche was prio spam not ST
royal lantern
why do so many people say turn spec XYZ into a ranged spec
lost horizon
uldir sin beat out sub on ST
royal lantern
if rogue had a ranged spec
you would need too play the ranged spec
look at druid/hunter/shaman
trim forge
Yeah, I guess I am saying that if Blizz unapologetically binned things class balance wouldnt be such a .... show
royal lantern
ranged spec avaible->you need too play it
unless its REALLY fking bad or the melee options are OP as hell
but its wow, ranged is OP all the time, if ranged is avaible for your class you are forced too play it
lost horizon
just give rogues 30yd melee range dude easiest fix
trim forge
Wait ... shaman have a spec that isnt ranged?!?
royal lantern
spamming lavaburst in meleerange on jaina
cus you need too stack near the melee group(if you have one lul)
trim forge
Of course I play elem for the same reason I play outlaw😆
stuck knoll
@rancid elbow if you're looking for a rotation helper try Herorotation or Hekili
rancid elbow
Which one's better?
stuck knoll
I know rawr uses Hekili so I'd say give that one a try first
rancid elbow
I like maxdps helper cause it doesnt create icons it only highlights which spells to use on my own action bar
Ive just seen that those 2 create additional icons right?
stuck knoll
Yeah afaik
lone junco
herodamage used to be just a single icon that flips based on need.
hekili is like in a row.
rancid elbow
Herodamage? @lone junco
stuck knoll
Herodamage is a sim site he meant hero rotation I assume
fringe epoch
you shouldnt use an addon to tell you what to press dude
near pilot
Let the man live
thick galleon
Kimbul's Razor Claw does the leech part work for all dmg or the trinket dmg?
stuck knoll
Trinket damage
halcyon tulip
anyone get the cabal pants? are they any good?
ripe portal
If they proc enough, yes
obsidian sierra
does some1 know why sometimes on kingsrest 3rd boss, when he charges upon you it works to take it with evasion
sometimes you get the dmg
its 50/50 for me, never know if it works or not
obsidian sierra
i had this often sincei play mplus
sometimes work sometimes not
right now i used 2 sec before chartge
dead
desert vault
Ugh I need that new trinket. I am so over using gcb. The mastery trinket should be decent in m+ as well?
marble hemlock
you need to stand still/move back after the boss starts its charge
he hits all the players that help soaking as he charges through them, but the player being charged gets the damage at the end of the charge, and the boss hits from that position. so if you move forward after he started the charge, he hits you in the back
untold current
Does the new trinket do dmg to yourself?
spice surge
Yes
lost horizon
Sorta depends on trait set up
DD traits increase the number of targets before you'll actually FoK
EB traits do the opposite
lost horizon
Abbreviations, double dose (trait) fan of knives (ability) and echoing blades (trait)
lost horizon
Go through the pinned guides
And there's an abbreviation list now too that you may wanna check out
rancid elbow
no guides for CoS yet?
midnight flower
dont die kill boss
royal lantern
1st boss needs some pulls too understand the right way too do it(2x trident 2xcrown 2xvoidstone is how we did it, i focused on cc the adds cus fk beeing melee dps on that fight)
2nd boss is pretty straight forward, not really hard imo
desert ibex
So is there anything BiS in the new raid?
fleet whale
i kind of feel that the first boss might actually be harder in a pug
and Lurker's Insidious gift is really good, bis if you can have good uptime
near pilot
so i have plumage macro'd to vendetta, does order matter? i don't think is snapshots
solar rose
it does not matter
near pilot
thx!
placid dawn
With MA i always do Vanish TB Mut Env right?
or is it better to do vniash env mut env?
civic palm
@placid dawn Vanish - TB is more consistent than Vanish - ENV, but if you wanna gamble a little > _> Vanish - ENV :3
placid dawn
allright, thanks
what do i do when i have cds coming up but tb is coming 10 seconds after?
civic palm
Which CDs? Vendetta is 20 seconds.
civic palm
No you should be vanishing during vendetta and using tb when it comes up
zinc canopy
Im wondering if i have TB up but CDs in like 10/15s should i delay TB?
civic palm
No. That's wasting an entire duration of TB and holding it for almost 50% of its entire Cooldown.
zinc canopy
Alright thanks
placid dawn
i mean vendetta on cd
and DURING vendetta wait for tb to come up for vanish
so, say 10 seconds in i vanish tb
tribal marlin
use vanish + TB as soon as you can during vandetta with EP buff up
the more energy you'll spent inside TB+Vendetta windows the best it is
it is worth delaying vendetta for a few second to make sure you do it the right way, unless you know you'll loose a Vendetta cast if you do so
last egret
tropic ocean
@midnight flower double bind garrote wut
peak saffron
more than likely a focus garrote
steady quartz
can the application of NP be parried/miss
steep obsidian
it has never happened to me that i have noticed so i dont think so
steady quartz
hmm
spice surge
Not in usual circumstances. If you vendetta a target that is immune then yes
steady quartz
maybe its just a bug with ptr tbf
spice surge
But you shouldnt vendetta a target that is immune to begin with
steep obsidian
oh that is interesting
i havent tested those traits on ptr but i was looking
cdr on vendetta too look op
spice surge
They're nerfing it so you only get 10 seconds of np instead of 20 everytime it procs
But idk its probably gonna be the best anyway. Its really awkward that the +crit one is 90s cd when vanish is 120s
steady quartz
@gusty kestrel
from what I saw
it does not extend
so for example if you vend
and you get a proc, the first np is still going
but then if the NP is proced by vision, if you get another proc
it resets the duration
and its the same for most specs I saw, your legit cooldown vs your proc is kinda different
unless for some specs like outlaw where adrenaline rush, hell even vend keeps extending but only the energy gain
and the debuff of vendetta itself
mighty elm
wtb uunat trinket
minor thicket
Hey guys so I have galle boon, Harlan’s dice and spyglass for trinkets if I want to focus moreso on AOE
Should I just use spyglass and dice?
opaque stump
Which talent are best in m+? Poison bomb vs crimson tempest, sim says crimson tempest but guide says poison bomb
minor thicket
I’m using crimson for m+
real bay
always used pb,rather use those cps on prio envenoms with ttk
minor thicket
What about my trinket question
tropic ocean
harlans and spyglass
gcb is a really bad choice for a aoe dmg in m+ due to the nature of the static buff
spice surge
Haste is not good very for aoe regardless
Generally you use poison bomb in m+ unless you know your gonna pull REALLY big, then CT is ok
lost sentinel
I wanna try ct with sob and the mastery trinket
outer kernel
got a question guys do we need a higher key for mythic plus chest or 10 is enough?
grave ruin
@outer kernel you get more residuum from doing higher keys in your weekly chest, but same ilvl
strange python
question, why does my current gear sim higher than seafarer's with TwK/ NP? due to overwhelming power? if so, should I wear the one with NP and ignore the .9 dps loss? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vStt7zMhjoEazaf3LmShLk
sullen pagoda
No u should wear highest sim
strange python
Is there a specific amount of haste I should be aiming for, or just get all I can?
visual quartz
just sim yourself and it should tell you.
outer kernel
@grave ruin Ye i Know but thought cause of new mythic raid they will raise that itemlevel from the chest
grave ruin
Nothing changes from that
rigid mango
@strange python because bbi is top tier, better than 2nd NP
NP gets outsimmed by DD and bbi after 1st one probs, sorta debatable after
strange python
is it even worth to have 2 on-use trinkets?
like activate lurker on pull
and after 30s galecaller?\
simple meteor
on retri paladins yeah here nah
marble hemlock
might be worth with exsang, idk
if you lurker first, then gc 2nd exsang
something like that
but i doubt itll beat running a dice in 2nd slot
strange python
yeah I agree
simple meteor
yeap
scenic saffron
How good is the new raid trinket? If I get it on heroic would it replace my 415 KR trinket ? And how do I sim that trinket, the uptime ?
spice surge
You can get a good hunch by looking at herodamage
Currently there is no easy way to do it on raidbots, if you really want to you can check the header on raidbots where they tell you how to do it in advanced
If you want to mess with the uptime
scenic saffron
I believe the sim in herodamage includes the whole uptime. I heard talks about a cancelaura after vendetta is over. That was why I am curious. Will get busy with raidbots then, thanks ^^
scenic saffron
Checking now, they added that recently i believe didn't see that like 3 days ago. Sorry for wasting your time
spice surge
Dw
rigid mango
Is it not worth keeping up after vendetta for healers' sake?
strange python
who cares about healers sake
spice surge
There no "for healers sake". Either you take enough damage that it will kill you, in that case you take it of, or you dont, in which case you keep it
strange python
just ask hpal to keep glimmer on you all the time
and it'll be more than enough
paladin can pad hps on you and you deal more damage
both sides win
marble hemlock
its less of an individual issue, and more of a "its fine if i do it, but if all the other 6 people with the trinket do it too, it might be too much"
royal lantern
it all deepens on the situation
jaina p1? you should be able too keep it up for 30sec with 0 problems
p2 with like 5 stacks? you deserve a kick in the face if you dont cancle it, there is allready a shitton of dmg going on
slow mortar
I thought i saw someone say cloak removes the dot, is that true?
tropic ocean
why would you not use it in p2 :^)
royal lantern
did i say not use the trinket at all?
slow mortar
O that ruins my big brain, use the cloak azerite trait
tropic ocean
p1 p2 are probably the only phases where it wont matter to use it dmg taken wise
slow mortar
Leeching poison eh? I'll trust you on this, but just this one time
civic palm
Don't.
slow mortar
(I was joking to)
I trust no one here
strange python
does feint work on trinket dot?\
civic palm
Elusiveness probably does.
tropic ocean
tropic ocean
😄
royal lantern
it should work, cant confirm, not on my pc right now
tropic ocean
yeah fk healers
elfin valley
for the new trinket wouldnt u want to use it 10 sec before u pop vendetta? so then its ramped up to the high mastery by the time u pop vendetta
or does it not ramp
strange python
its 900 mastery on use
elfin valley
gotcha
elfin valley
yeah i mean that makes sense then
strange python
u can use it for vendetta-tb window only?
elfin valley
was thinking it was a risk/reward situation where it ramps as u take dmg
civic palm
o _o
strange python
they could do it like it's ramping up for 15s, then mastery buff decays for 15s
and u start taking dmg while it decays
strange python
but they would have to make it more than 900 mastery
if it was to ramp up for 15s
idk maybe not
civic palm
strange python
havent really tested the trinket too much
atomic willow
don't worry blizz didn't either
tropic ocean
wat why
strange python
1 buff for over 70% of entire fightg
dark crag
What buff?
strange python
the few times i had double buff during this fight
civic palm
Fortitude :3
strange python
was cd and energy regen
dark crag
Outlaw?
tropic ocean
oh outlaw struggles
dark crag
I was assa and my second vanish just broke
tropic ocean
bbi can be fkin strong
strange python
havent seen it proc yet
it is strong
sim tells me its much stronger than 2nd np
civic palm
Magical Christmas Laaaaaaaand
dark crag
Fuck all this rnd shit, i go back to sub
tropic ocean
like its really rng but
when it procs good u go from 85ish purple log to
bbi carry
strange python
isnt sub rng too? 🤔
royal lantern
@dark crag how many melee attack combo points did you get:?
strange python
i kinda need to test the trinket on sub too
dark crag
Sht is not really rng
strange python
might be fun with that amount of mastery
tropic ocean
I mean on that particularly try I had 32% critrate on envenom so thats not that much I guess
considering I have 24% out of combat
tropic ocean
on patchwerk?
tropic ocean
for me it just tells me to go mastery
dark crag
I have 3 dd 3 np, gorak doesn't want to drop
dark crag
I didn't even know what was going on in cos, i multidotted everything, spammed muti and envenom in the boss with skull
dark crag
I was so ready to full ss garrote the bosses, but nope
civic palm
Bingo
strange python
around 7-8k hp
dark crag
A few more agi and better dmg effects
spice surge
around 500-600 simdps
languid ore
🤔
spice surge
Total, for all 3 combined
spice surge
Obv depends on how good traits you have
languid ore
The best ones I think
dark crag
You get it automatically
tropic ocean
didnt they say u can unlock everything right on the start
spice surge
Yeah you do, but you're basicly gonna get 50 by doing a weekly m+ and raid
tropic ocean
so I assume u cant preunlock
strange python
oh so
people rush 50 on neck right now for extra 4 crit haste and mastery
gotcha
spice surge
Its a bit of agi too, around 30-40 simdps per level
Mostly its to feel finished i'd wager
spice surge
Its not even pushing that hard tbh. 49-50 is like 50k total, when people were pushing 43 before bod people were hitting 200k+ per level
1 week of WQ and you get it
strange python
true
dark crag
I am on vacation, i started with 49.2 and am now 49.5 just using the app missions
strange python
cba going for it anyway
missing 10k for 49
but i wnat to puke when i think about wq/islands
tropic ocean
i dont think its hard at all
I do 0 wq only weekly island, ship missions and m+/raid
and im close to 48 😄
dark crag
On monday i loot my chest, do islands and 1 key for next week
strange python
i havent done island since 8.1 @tropic ocean
tropic ocean
i only did wq to the point needed for pathfinder
im not even exalted with anything except honorbound due to island weekly
tropic ocean
wq is just cancer
strange python
reps are different for me
i was hyped at the start of bfa
i got exalted with most of it in like a month or so
been doing every single WQ on the map
still doing emissary because of paragon rep
it gives 2500 azerite so
tropic ocean
5k 😄
languid ore
I'm at heart rank 43. Feels bad
tropic ocean
I log in early, buy all of the items from auction house needed and just x10 the price
and go back to sleep
whole ginkgo
for M+, i have been recommended to try 3x TTK, 2x ECHO, 1x SS, poison bomb for TB nuke on priority targets. I can run 3xSS 2xEcho 1xNP or 2xSS 3xEcho with 1xTTK. Feels unconvincing. Hard to get my triple envenom well in my TB window without dropping bleeds on multiple targets
i think i'd rather just bin TB and run exang with normal setup if i really want the priority nuke
kindred chasm
whole ginkgo
just uninstall dude you won the game
solar rose
u won the game
bleak spoke
Leeching poison 
distant lava
on a rank from gloomblade to snd how much meme is leeching poison ? 
bleak spoke
closer to snd than gloomblade i'd say
strange python
If i dropped my last SS, i'd have 3 DD 2NP and 1TTK would i then switch to MA too?
tropic ocean
@serene flare i like the cape
serene flare
gear, dps to ilvl, talents
tropic ocean
Use elaborate planning instead of master poisoner
Use elusiveness/cheat death for raid/m+
lusty narwhal
Yeah cant say I agree with master poisoner. Frenetic trinket is average too
tropic ocean
its a sim so cant really rate your dps
If you pull off similar number on st, thats great
serene flare
ok
leaden kayak
so i just got both of the trinks from normal uu'nat but I also have the trink from normal mekkatorque (the crit stacks on) and a 385 version of harlan's loaded dice
which of the 4 should i be using for raiding?
tropic ocean
Sim them vs each other
leaden kayak
was gonna do that but thought I should just ask here anyway
tropic ocean
Not sure without knowing your stats anyone can give a correct answer
Probably harland + mastery use trinket will be the best combination
Will see from sim
leaden kayak
yeah ill do that now lol
serene flare
any opener suggestions?
civic palm
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
serene flare
lol ty
civic palm
:3
rancid elbow
Is there any stat cap I shouldnt go further?
civic palm
Not really.
civic palm
Almost never.
cobalt gyro
when your sim tells you it is
flint jetty
https://i.imgur.com/Ix0lmkS.png Well, this looks very interesting
I really wonder how that's gunna work out. If they change it to a chance to proc or maybe add an internal cooldown.
civic palm
flint jetty
Sure it needs tuning still but that If you deal nature damage then you deal nature damage combo is kinda funny. Plus with poison ticks and envs lol. Imagine if it procd off every instance of nature dmg for sin
jaunty crystal
acoustic yew
Hey guys ive searched the icy veins, and also the ravenholdt guide but i still search for one answer : never envenom before the old envenom buff runs out. Right?
strange python
you cast envenom whenever you have atleast 4CP
worldly iron
don't overcap on energy, try to get two mutilates in your EP window after envonom
so don't hold for too long
dense nest
acoustic yew
Ok but i loose 1-2 Sec of the buff When i overwrite it, didnt i?
acoustic yew
Aaaah pandemics. Thanks Man
cobalt pelican
uptime isn't super important as long as most of your muts fall inside the buff
steep obsidian
is there any way to sim the uptime on the buff for crucible boots?
like how many times you have to restack it or whatever
hmm
lost horizon
Not sure, but tbh the drawback on those seems a bit rough
steep obsidian
yah
i havent even done a proper sim on them yet but they dont seem worth
top gear said was 200 dps upgrade over socketed boots i have
¯_(ツ)_/¯
spice surge
Depends on what fight youre doing
Not every damage you take break the boots
For example, boots are worthless on jaina because the chilling touch removes the boots, but none of the aoe effects on conclave remove the boots
So on conclave its easy to have 99%+ uptime, whereas its impossible on jaina
mossy ferry
Is like to see unavoidable damage not break them. Punish me for making a mistake, not just for whatever.
near pilot
^
shy dust
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
compact haven
hey, on wich trait numbers do i focus? 3x Shrouded Suffocation, 2x Double Dose and 1x Nothing personal?
strange python
depends if you are going to raid or do mythic+
compact haven
for ST dps
spice surge
Dump all of those Shrouded
strange python
the best option is 3x double dose
then nothing personal/blightborn infusion/ttk
if you want to play with subterfuge take one shrouded
compact haven
actually i play with subterfuge
strange python
the best way to find out is to sim
compact haven
alright, thanks man ❤
strange python
np, in perfect world you want 3x double dose, 1x nothing personal (or 2) and blightborne/ttk
with 3x overwhelming power
that is if you play with master assasin
instead of subterfuge
spice surge
Well in a perfect world you would want 3x overwhelming, 3x NP and 3x DD
But those pieces dont exist
strange python
hell no
compact haven
why blightborne and not treach?
strange python
3x np doesnt sim that well
strange python
@compact haven both blightborne and treach are good
compact haven
NP stacking is just to increase the dmg of the poison right? it wont increase the reg?!
strange python
just take the one that sims higher
spice surge
Yes, damage/healing/stats always stack, never anything else
strange python
NP is better than ttk I agree
but a single ttk sims much better than 2nd NP for me
I guess it's different for everyone depending on stats and gear
compact haven
seems so
spice surge
But yes, the ideal setup atm is helm from raid/gorak shoulders/cepha chest
pseudo finch
Hey guys, me and my guild are gunna start progressing mythic Jaina and i was wondering if cloak works during the intermission to be able to run ahaead and interrupt an add
oblique copper
with 3 double doses do I use the mutilate instead of TB in the MA window?
or its just more of a dd proc highroll
spice surge
Yes, its generally prefered to have a ranged (warlocks pet can interrupt from unlimited range) interrupt
But you can do it @pseudo finch
pseudo finch
ah thanks 😃
compact haven
one more question, i use vendetta first after i applied rupture after pull on the target correct?
spice surge
Yes, the openers are listed in the guide in the pins
compact haven
why shall i use rupture on 4 CPs? and not on 5?
spice surge
You can use it at 4 and 5
compact haven
okay 😃 i just switched from outlaw to assa, thats why im not that sure actually with that spec 😉
dark crag
Why switch now when cos is outlaw pad fiesta
tropic ocean
anyone used the pants already?
civic hinge
Whats the Feelycraft Opinion on Hidden Blades in M+ instead of PB? It sims 0,8% higher for me, in Dungeon Slice.
Any shenigans i can pull of for example?
spice surge
Thats the boots, pants are just a random proc
civic hinge
Oh cool, you know who or have a Video link maybe?
civic hinge
ty
spice surge
Mast
long marlin
ty
crystal barn
You guys think it's safe to tricks the ranged tank in cabal in order to get an empowered garrote off on both bosses?
fierce sierra
Hey, anyone that can answer a few rotation questions?
spice surge
Just toss em in here
fierce sierra
Elaborate planning/ envenom buff always wait for both to drop off? or clip the ends?
spice surge
Sometimes you can clip it, but its better to have energy after envenom rather than clipping it
Generally you shouldnt play much around either of those buffs
You dont need to cast a spell right away unless you have a short buff that will end (like TB) or you will cap energy
fierce sierra
yah I'm more curious if for example i should rupture at 1 sec planning for the 10% boost.
and same for envenom, or if its a bigger loss to not wait for envenom buff to run out
spice surge
EP only buffs abilities by 10% when it is up
fierce sierra
as in not finishers?
spice surge
Yes, but only for the duration, so rupture cast during EP will not buff all of it
fierce sierra
wait - it doesn't clip anymore? (i haven't played rogue since cata)
spice surge
Almost nothing in this game snapshots now. Since WoD
shy axle
only NS rup
fierce sierra
oh...
spice surge
Subterfuge and nightstalker (only the bonus damage, not anything else) are the exceptions for rogues
fierce sierra
ok other question at what point is it worth a 2nd mutilate - 2, 3, 4 cp? assuming toxic is down/garrote doesn't need refresh
spice surge
If you have less than 4 cp you mutilate
If the guide in the pins dont go indepth enough for you the wowhead guide is also really good
fierce sierra
I'll check it out, ty
weak zenith
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
spice surge
Yes mobius, a lot of damage doesnt break it
But there doesnt seem to be a consistent way to know if it breaks the buff besides testing
dense blaze
Anyone know if Chilling Touch resets Untouchable stacks, the boots from CoS?
strange python
it does
desert orchid
is there any descent combo of azerite traits for both raiding and m+?
dense blaze
Big yikes
strange python
@desert orchid for raid you want 3x double dose and nothing personal/blightborne/treach traits
for m+ 3x echoing blades, 1x shrouded and 2x ttk
desert orchid
but you want the eb for m+, I was afraid of that
bleak spoke
Playing 3 SS and some ttks will perform in both
But you want some DD to raid and some EB for m+ and there at complete odds in the other content
strange python
depends how mythic fights will look
if they are not too different from HC I think 3x dd, 1 ss and np/blightborne/treach
inland path
alright
inland path
lol wtf i am rank 10 on hc logs
was tryna see what other ppl are doing
3head
well idk what is good then
marble elm
I think ss subt is going to be a troll on 2nd boss
marble elm
If the adds have mega hp maybe
spice surge
Assa is probably just gonna be the SMOrc sit on boss specc anyway
Like it has been for BoD
marble elm
Yeah
It’s going to be bod 2.0 bet
Irrelevant adds
And people will still play subterfuge ss on prog
strange python
as top boss damage spec you are kinda obligated to tunnel the boss
🤷
and let spriests pad on the adds
spice surge
I'd like if there was some sub 🧀 going on with tanking the adds close to the boss, but im not expecting anything
feel like playing some sub tbh
marble elm
I don’t even think spriest will be very good on the 2nd boss unless the adds have massive hp but like in heroic it’s super overrated
strange python
yeah but still there are not enough adds
i feel like
ideally you'd want 4 adds next to the boss
spice surge
Well yeah, assuming its the same amount of adds on hc and mythic
strange python
or even 5
marble elm
Ele will be the best ranged spec on uunat mark my words
spice surge
Well, thats not a very controversial opinion
strange python
or destro
spice surge
Ele is the best ST caster
marble elm
So many people think spriest is op on uunat
spice surge
Spriests and warlocks just pad on adds
strange python
destro pad with havoc on add is gonna be fun too
steep reef
fire mage is what will be best and sin rogue
icy mango
Hi everyone i just have a question is it best to play assa or outlaw for raid?
mighty elm
if youre korean id go outlaw
stuck knoll
The difference is incredibly small
prisma crescent
Play both if you can swing it
strange python
I can't stand the rng of outlaw in raid so I play sin in raid, and outlaw in m+
spice surge
Assa RNG is also incredibly high though
prisma crescent
MA non-crits 
spice surge
MA or subt doesnt really change overall variance, its still high regardless
icy mango
ok thx for your awnser guys i think i will try to switch between two spc 😃
versed mica
Should I go poison bomb or crimson temp for reaping in m+?
spice surge
I assume your doing other things in the dungeon besides only killing reaping, so probably poison bomb
gleaming viper
!opener
prisma crescent
gleaming viper
ahah ^^
cursive dune
someone decide for me, level 2nd rogue as outlaw or sin
gleaming viper
saying sin instead of assa , go for outlaw :p
stuck knoll
Outlaw or sub are bother better for leveling than assassination
hardy mulch
!help
marble hemlock
who doesnt like ass tho
wooden fog
Woot got AoTC with a 1 shot pug group with a 33 rank parse for rogues and got the 410 bis trinket with boots!
fringe epoch
the trinket and boots are serious
rigid mango
@marble hemlock 3 ttk 2 eb 1 ss or 3 ss 1 ttk eb bbi?
rigid mango
Hm ok
marble hemlock
just go 3ttk if you want more prio/aoe due to the 2eb
or run the 3ss in dungeons where you know pulls are gonna be smaller
rigid mango
Feels as if tho ttk heavy might be better this week
marble hemlock
so ive been running 2/2/2 for the last few d ungeons and felt better about it
rigid mango
Been away entire week and getting back tmr so
I just wanna set shit up and grind
Bbi is so nice, wish there was a piece w ttk and bbi :/
marble hemlock
well, theres a ttk/ss/op helmet from temple
and swirling sands is kinda like BBI
slightly less crit, longer duration tho
rigid mango
Yeah that'd be nice
I just feel bad not using goraks
Since bbi feels so insanely nice to play, I do love it whenever tos/kr runs come around and triple ss feels amazinf
marble hemlock
i wish i had some 😦
rigid mango
Some what, goraks?
marble hemlock
ye 😦
rigid mango
But you're going for the swirl head right?
marble hemlock
still undecided
cant buy them next week anyway, short ~700residue
so ill just see how hard raid is
if i need gorak for progress, ill go for them
otherwise i think ill get the helmet instead
rigid mango
I'm still rolling, should prob save up for a specific piece though
marble hemlock
not talking to SP mains
rigid mango
I think swirl head is the only piece I know I want
solar bramble
slightly curious about a minor rotation thing. . . .. . . assuming 1 TTK trait, TB, elaborate planning . . . . . do you use envenom, and space out your 2 mutilates before the 2nd envenom within a TB window. to maximize uptime on bonus poison application within it. . . or do you quickly envenom > mut x2 > envemon to have an elaborate planning boosted envenom?
marble hemlock
what if you gamble my hardearned residue away tisu?
solar bramble
i'll c;heck back for the answer. GoT time
slender urchin
Is sin really viable in high M+?
sturdy python
verbal loom
Been reading the guide to try and tighten up my opener some and it says I should pair vanish with vendetta. Does that mean I should hold vendetta for vanish to come off cd? Or that the next time vanish comes off cd I should hold it for the next vendetta?
wooden fog
Why does the uunat bis trinket and galecaller's sim 1k lower than uunat and the conclave claw trinket combo at same IL? I get that it is 2 on-use but that just seems like there is no 2 bis trinkets are that bad together
no way*
marble hemlock
Thats the reason tho
On-Use trinkets are so good, because their value is much higher when you have strong cooldowns to stack them with. The moment you run 2 on-use trinkets, only one of them will be supporting those cooldowns
wooden fog
That makes sense, thanks for the clarification
strange python
if i use the hidden blades talent and flying dagger pvp one, does the pvp 50% get added to the 400% from hidden blades to 450%? or is it 50% on 400% so 600%?
cerulean walrus
strange python
@marble hemlock Is there ever a M+ or affix where you would run 3xEB?
severe folio
pvp talents dont work in pve
strange python
is scent of blood ever worth runnin gfor m+?
cobalt gyro
it's stronger than a dungeon slice sim would tell you
i'd take it if i have nothing better, but because SS and EB are so strong you need both
strange python
I really can't figure out the best traits to go w/ for M+
I have the option to go
3ttf/2eb/1ss
1ttf/3eb/2ss
2rrf/2eb/2ss
2ttf/2b/2ss***
dark crag
When in doubt go 222
strange python
yeah? I have not even tried 2/2/2 yet
timid cloud
It's safe.
strange python
with 2/2/2 ... or in general.. when do I stop spamming FoK and use my 5CPs on envenom?
and should I be using Poison Bomb? or Hidden Blades?
dark crag
Use env at 5 cp, keeps min 4 bleeds for energy, funnel down your prio target
With 222 you can do everything
strange python
@dark crag Poison Bomb or Hidden BLades?
rigid mango
Pb
Hb is something you can try with 3 EB and the right comp
Would defo not without both criteria @strange python
And I assume by ttf you mean ttk?
light kestrel
What's the difference between Lurker's Insidious Gift (full) and (20s)?
rigid mango
Herodamage has the diff iirc
But it's also just that you keep it up all the way through vend and then turn it off
light kestrel
What differentiates the two? Unless i'm misunderstanding the trinket, isn't it just static?
rigid mango
Nah
It's on for 30 sec
But iirc you can cancel it
And to save damage since the higher it goes the more damage you take, you pop it with vend and cancel after it's over
To get an effective 20 usage but not take the last 10sec of dmg
light kestrel
Ah, so the difference in the sims is literally just having it active during vendetta, as opposed to leaving it on
rigid mango
Well I dunno if sims incorporate that fact
light kestrel
Hero damage just has (full) simming higher than (20s) which is what was confusing
light kestrel
Well, not sim I should say. But the dps gain
rigid mango
Yeah, for classes with a 20 sec major cd it's good to know
light kestrel
That makes sense, I'll just tell my healers I'm doing it for their parse, like I always do for everything else.
rigid mango
Aye, I'm just gonna have a pocket healer st this point
light kestrel
Arms warrior pvp roleplay
rigid mango
Arms 
warrior pvp
timber escarp
hi. I have one question. Do you use any macro on assassination on m+?
rigid mango
Tricks macro for my tank, but other than that no
lost horizon
Focus interrupt macro can be useful
Mouse over for garrote/rupture can also be nice
Ends up being very much based on preference
Though I'd highly recommend getting used to focus interrupt
rigid mango
I wish that set focus macro for tricks wasn't as nice as it is
thick galleon
Hello, what's the addon that tells in chat how much time should has left?
solid nova
It's a weak aura
thick galleon
ok then, ill look it up
solar bramble
sooo . . . . a couple questions about min/max with envenom/tb/rupture. . . . when you use toxic blade and fit in 2 envenoms (1 ttk trait, elaborate planning) is it better to delay your 2nd envenom to increase the uptime of envenoms buff? or do what i have been, and pool energy to envenom > mut x2 > envenom back to back for the 2nd envenom to benefit from elaborate planning? | 2nd question. if you cap cp from a double crit mutilate. and tb is coming off cd (since i plan my tb > 2+ envenom windows before tb comes off cd), is it viable or a bad choice to use tb there at full cp and 80% or so energy to empower the 2-3 following envenoms. or use an unbuffed envenom and follow with tb (potentially only fitting 1 envenom under that tb buff as a reasult
lastly - if rupture is about 16 seconds left (where it'll come into pandemic during tb > 2x envenom window and maybe refreshed at 1-2 seconds after due to low energy) is it acceptable to refresh rupture at about 11 seconds or so to ensure you can fit envenom x2 (potentially 3 since you won't be considering rupture refresh as heavily) under that tb window. without needing to use a 4-5 cp refresh mid tb on refreshing rupture?
vast forum
Basically, clip ep with envenom when you can, use tb on cd (even on full cp)
Don't refresh rupture too early
Refreshing rup 1-2 sec before pandemic to prepare for a tb could be fine but idk if it's recommended
solar bramble
ya i was using tb on cd. and storing energy etc. to ensure maximizing it. just wasn't sure if i should be delaying the 2nd envenom or not which is always at the end of ep for me. so seems i'm doing that correctly. I haven't clipped rupture before pandemic, but wasn't sure if it was doable. . . . i do however let rupture fall off for like 1 second or so in my opener, in favor of a 3rd tb + vendetta + pot buffed envenom . . . generally it doesn't fall off, but on occasion it'll briefly drop as i get the last vestages of energy to press the button
1 second of rupture to me when it's reapplied so quickly anyway, just doesn't feel like it's worth sacrificing that large of an envenom
vast forum
Yea 1 sec of rupure for that env is fine
solar bramble
my 3x envenoms mid fight generally don't occur outside luck . . i could fit them, but then i'd be sacrificing a couple seconds of rupture for it, which doesn't seem worth it. as i'm so energy starved at that point it also throws off the flow of the rotation. . . and can get out of hand
would need a couple haste procs or a random crit to let me do it unfortunately . . . iso: more crit rate lol
vast forum
Don't think about envenoms in tb, just make sure to have a good uptime on bleeds and tb
solar bramble
i set up my 2nd vendetta + vanish with a prior 2+ cp so i can garrote > rupture > garrote tb > envenom (or vendetta > tb > envenom)
my bleeds dont' fall lol
i only make sure i have 2 envenom within tb. and one buffed by ep
vast forum
That's good
vast forum
Also, ma > subterfuge on st
solar bramble
i keep subterfuge since i have 3 ss traits
and no real dd setups to take advantage of ma
the current raid though . . . . . i end up garrote on multiple targets anyway
just as much a comfort thing of 3cp garrote
vast forum
Have you simmed exsg instead?
rigid mango
You don't care about the amount of env inside tb? Or do you just assume you'll get 2 each time you use it? @vast forum
solar bramble
i sim lower on ensang by about 300-400 dps. it's not a big difference. i also have 1 ttk trait that kind of pushes it over
i kind of find tb substantially easier to use. ensang's mid usages are just harder to min/max and get full value out of. especially when it missaligns with cooldowns. where tb always fits with cooldowns and enables a mini burst every 30 seconds
i used to favor ensang, but after a week or two on tb i'm prefering it a little more as i figure out how to use it a little better
rigid mango
I find tb nicer to use, and exsang doesn't outsim until 3 ss +- nelf
Also if you're using gcb exsang can be a bit better iirc
solar bramble
my trinkets are horrid. . . . no active ones yet . . . . rng is really disliking me
cobalt pelican
galecallers + unreasonable amounts of haste on your gear usually make it better/even
after reorigination was irrelevant though it's pretty hard to hit those haste numbers
solar bramble
and i have haste and crit relatively even atm.
rigid mango
Myeh i mean no use is nice tho
I think dice + cos trink is probs one of if not the best atm but dunno
vast forum
@rigid mango i do care about env but it shouldn't be the thing you actively think about while executing your rotation
rigid mango
Hm i just play around so I always get minimum 2 env
vast forum
As long as you don't drop bleeds, pool for tb and use it on cd, you're fine
rigid mango
In each window
solar bramble
@vast forum i think about my envenom more than 10-15 seconds in advance to make sure 2 are within tb window
and not sacrificing dot's
outside tb, i dont' really focus as much on them
vast forum
You will mostly get 2+ but sometimes you might get fucked over by rng
solar bramble
but if i have the opportunity to envenom > mut x2 > envenom under ep i will
i've never had less than 2 whenever i plan ahead of time. . . unless it's forced disconnection on a boss
generally through a phase transition that i'm not already anticipating
cobalt pelican
it's pretty hard to not get 2 to be honest unless you tb at 0 cps on 0 energy
which can happen but is.. pretty preventable with even mild awareness
solar bramble
i tb at 3-5 cp and over 60% energy. tb > envenom > mut x2 > envenom . . . it's like clockwork for me atm
i'll even tb and wait on energy before casting envenom > mut x2 > envenom to aim for the ep
vast forum
I have had situations where i have to reapply rupture before tb and pooling would cause me to overcap, so i had to use 2 muti rup and tb in a row, leaving me at low energy, and then having 0 muti crits
solar bramble
so long as i have over 13 seconds or so on rupture i haven't had that issue yet. i'll refresh at like 2 seconds on rupture instead of pandemic. but it still gets refreshed without loss
was the most difficult thing to get used to . . . is not refreshing rupture immediately on pandemic every time so long as it doesn't fall off, and only if it allows a tb window generally
was kind of engrained to pandemic rupture every time lol
solid nova
xd
cinder sparrow
spice surge
Toxic blade will unfortunately not increase the damage of that zap
Toxic blade doesnt actually increase nature damage by 30%, it only increases all rogue nature damage
olive ibex
spice surge
Are you trying to do single target or aoe?
sleek iron
i am playing troll rogue.. do i pool my zerking for my 3rd vendetta, or use 2nd zerking at 3min and pair it with my 4th vendetta at the 6minute mark/?
does it matter that much
spice surge
@olive ibex Then your chest
And also, you should swap heed my call for unstable flames on your helm (probably scent to twist the knife too)
@sleek iron Depends on how long the fight is
rose perch
yeah if it costs you a berzerking cast over the course of the fight, don't pool, otherwise do
rose perch
ya so for 8 minutes you are only getting 3 berserkings either way
at 9:20 for instance though you'd want to not pool
sleek iron
i guess then, its just a matter of when bloodlust is enabled?
in the case of a 8minute-ish fight
rose perch
hmm i'm not actually sure how lust timings play into it
spice surge
But yeah mostly BL
sleek iron
This one is more correct
so anything between 6 to under 9 minute fights, whatever pairs with lust is best yeah?
Between B1 and B2 that is
spice surge
Ye
spice surge
So just on CD then
sleek iron
and we lust at around 6 minutes
so i would B1 in this case
does lust/zerking/vendetta wouldbe the optimal use
spice surge
Yes, stacking cooldowns are always the play if you can
Especially haste which stacks multiplicatively
rigid mango
Your trinkets are legit not fair
sleek iron
ya lol just lucky
rigid mango
Yet to get anythign above 400 dice with like 30-40 runs of FH
And ur rocking 425 with a 410 lurkers
sleek iron
youre gonna hate me.. but i scrapped one 425 dice already
rigid mango
:(
spice surge
Who cares about ilvl, its all about the socket
rigid mango
Myeh i mean sure
But mental trinks anyways
Just gimme anything on my current dice pls
sleek iron
i had 9 sockets at some point lol
rigid mango
Jesus
I mean i have some decent sockets
410 gcb wirh a socket is nice, but I also hate gcb
sleek iron
anyone else here have lurkers and turning off the buff at 20sec?
why do they provide sims for it on herodamage if it aint an option
im down to 40% hp if the buff timer fully runs
nocturne gate
" u guys dont have phones?"
sleek iron
kk ty
marble hemlock
@strange python I ran 3EB/3SS for high Fortified Freeholds
strange python
The trinket does about 50% hp, crimson heals 30% so in total you lose 20% hp wich is nothing
If healers cant heal my through that, wrath will be upon them. Fuck cancelling the trinket 😄
steep obsidian
i mean it depends on when right?
strange python
trinket does more than 50% HP
steep obsidian
seems like it would be worthless in p3 jaina
strange python
in fact it procced my cheat death on target dummy
I had 51% hp left yesterday when i popped it.
languid ore
How much do the pants heal for
steep obsidian
i just popped it on ptr with only standard ooc regen and got below 30% at the end of it
strange python
Right, i had the shield on me. So say 60% then
still totally healable
ofc, just ask hpal or druid to keep glimmer/hot on you for the duration
languid ore
strange python
and its not a problem
languid ore
My napkin math is off by a lot
strange python
do we know rppm on the leggings?
languid ore
Don't have any logs with it yet
I'm not even sure
I know the dmg part procced a lot
300k worth
strange python
the boots proc every ~10s from what ive seen
languid ore
It says "low chance" can't be that often
strange python
no idea about the lgs
languid ore
Actually both say low chance but it procced alot
marble hemlock
"in fact it procced my cheat death on target dummy"
no it didnt, unless you hit the wrong dummy
or are ilvl 380
marble hemlock
the trinket deals 172k at 410 ilvl, and ~190k on 425
strange python
yea i must have been on half hp or something and didnt realize
it deals around 180k each time
tested it just now
vast forum
maybe you hit the tanking dummy 🤷
languid ore
Lmao
karmic ingot
Trinket damage is ((n^2 + n)/2) * (tooltip damage). Where n is the number of seconds the DoT is active.
Also, I don’t have a lot of data on the legs, but I got them on my brewmaster monk and got 12 procs in a 8:17 fight against Uunat. That’s about 1.45 procs per minute.
swift timber
I got 2 leg procs in the entire conclave fight
strange python
anyone have any logs with the boots? tryna see if they worth
bold hearth
Most fights maintain 70-90% uptime
Did the napkin math and you only need like 60% uptime for them to be better than regular boots
steep obsidian
They do stack up pretty fast too
bold hearth
Yea I didn't really take into account stack time, because they stack quickly
golden relic
Hmm intended ? or
would be nice assuming they do seem shit if everything did break them
like all tiny dmg
spice surge
About as intended as feint i assume
golden relic
so they break on damage you can feint, but everything else like chilling touch on jaina is fine
seems ok i guess, makes sense in that case
boots that force u to play better for more dps 
blizzards thought process
spice surge
It doesnt really have any connection to what you can feint
Typically it seems like, if you can feint the spell it generally doesnt remove the stacks
But if you cant feint that doesnt mean it removes stacks
For example, you can have 100% boots uptime on conclave and mekka (besides intermission where you cant melee)
golden relic
hmm ok
spice surge
Getting the bomb removes the stacks on mekka, but nothing else
Or well, nothing unavoidable else
Its really wierd
golden relic
im suprised at how good this trinket is aswell acctually, even at 395 , going into crucible im glad that the boots for example turned out not to be shit, cuz it seemed super boring with all the effects
rigid sonnet
would u guys use a 415 galecallers or a 400 Harlans Dice on jaina?
with all the movements going on
mythic
golden relic
whats your other trinket
dark crag
3dd 3np with subt sims better than 3dd 2np 1ss with subt, what a wierd world
when adds are there ofcourse ss surpasses np
quick wren
strange python
Dont cancel, win.
marble hemlock
/cancelaura Insidious Gift
rigid sonnet
sorry for not responding, other trinket I've been using mainly just cause it's simmed highest in all combinations is a socketed 410 dead-eye spyglass
mint peak
Id use GCB since the movement on the fight is mostly predictable
rigid sonnet
mm yeah thinking I'll stick with it, haste somewhat low and I think I can mostly gain a pretty good usage of the circle unless tanks act like dipshits
visual quartz
relying on tanks not to move boss is what makes me love/hate GCB
rigid sonnet
didn't play assa when poison bomb was crazy but I can understand their hate for tanks moving poorly
visual quartz
I give a pass most times because they cannot see GCB animation on the ground
they dont even know they are making you rage 😛
regal carbon
Lol they pull things out of visible aoe on my other characters....my healer has started to use shining force too
marble hemlock
its not bad, but behind the "trifecta" of ttk/ss/eb
thick jolt
yeah its that or ttk, only played outlaw this season really
stats seemed better for sin
pulsar goblet
Classy name
thick jolt
had a good run but im hearing "reported" alot in 2019
pulsar goblet
Yeah you should probably just change it