I didnt see it
#assassination
solar rose
im not even at 29k 
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cgP5yosNExMSbdMTJz8uYB
mossy ferry
Show off
spice surge
So new epic gems are 60 and agi gems are 120?
mossy ferry
Cba
vast forum
that's gud
spice surge
@solar rose Insidious gift is cheating π
spice surge
But tisu
solar rose
I got it on my birthday, was a v nice present from blizzard
prime quail
Good old rng game wow
spice surge
Its still fairly close between agi and secondary gems
mossy ferry
Flawlesss im coming for your big io score
spice surge
Well yeah, but new essences should make it more
solar rose
I haven't upgraded a key in weeks, haven't pushed in awhile, the grp I push with now do MDI stuff π¦
prime quail
What ilvl drops in normal 8.2?
bold hearth
spice surge
And right now its 276 dps for agi and 216 dps for secondaries atm
bold hearth
Just changing to MA build with jadefire shoulders
vast forum
i just want a 425 dagger π¦
prime quail
Isn't it worth to have an alt rogue to boost him a +10 every week
To enhance the rng game ?π
rigid mango
@solar rose you push w jb and them right?
solar rose
its easy to get a 425 dagger, just get one π
vast forum
thanks flawless π
solar rose
yea
rigid mango
Hm
solar rose
those r my boys
rigid mango
So you didn't find another team for mdi?
Or are you backup sorta thing for them or smth?
prime quail
Guess makes it easier when you in a mythic guild xD
solar rose
don't want to do MDI, those guys practice all day and put in a lot of work, not something im interested in
rigid mango
Ah ok fair enough
Sorta thought it was weird seeing you so often and suddenly darkee was in instead
solar rose
what are you @
rigid mango
So you don't push at all or?
spice surge
But yeah unless our best essences are ones that scale with agi were still not gonna use one. @gusty kestrel
spice surge
Idk if they do scale with agi, like the mother one
mossy ferry
I feel it
rigid mango
Do you push when they have mdi downtime?
distant lava
you have blood siphon on one piece 
spice surge
@gusty kestrel If you find out rppm and/or other stuff pls let me know xoxo.
I cba playing with 250 ms
solar rose
the leech OWNS
mossy ferry
I play outlaw for wq okay
rigid mango
pastel vault
WQ are the most important content after all
mossy ferry
π¦
nimble tartan
solar rose
I always play whats best for the key, I just HEAVILY prefer assa
π¦
@mossy ferry I still have a 22 freehold and 22 atal which are free af on 24 π¦ Just haven't pushed
rigid mango
Bursting saurids 
flint fable
flawless a community figure 
rigid mango
He wrote an outlaw guide ok?
distant lava
nono
rigid mango
H e r e t i c
distant lava
he wrote THE outlaw guide
rigid mango
Ok yeah sorry, it is amazing
solar rose
β€
mossy ferry
@solar rose im just messing with you :c
distant lava
what's ur problem with outlaw man 
mossy ferry
No flame only love from a fanboy
rigid mango
Nothing, I'm the same
rigid mango
At my r.io people don't accept me if I'm sin, even more so if I'm making the group
- outlaw is simple and sorta enjoying to play
More fast paced enjoyable gameplay to swap it up at times
solar rose
a class or spec being boring is subjective, I think it's fun, when you get crit. When I see the other rogue blast and I'm over there with my true bearing I ask him what buff he has and he says crit. I get sad..........
solar rose
I go assa and go EB + SS and AoE blast
mossy ferry
Big brain single target and aoe
solar rose
I have 3 ss and 3 eb and OWN aoe
mossy ferry
I wanna go tripple eb but the boys arent happy with thtat
pulsar goblet
3 SS 3 EB is pretty fun
rigid mango
Not as good as otl tho
pulsar goblet
Pretty close
solar rose
debatable, really depends on the affixes and ndungeon
rigid mango
Myeh
pulsar goblet
8.2 wits Nerf might change it
solar rose
I beat outlaws in overall in world first keys as assa
solar rose
3 eb is useless on ST yeah, but good thing dungeons are mostly made of trash.... that need to die.... and the difference on single target isn't THAT big
mossy ferry
look at my big kr
pulsar goblet
Flawless what do you think of all the ttk builds
solar rose
I think that build has its use and is good, Seli prefers it, I prefer 3ss 3eb.
but im a 
π
pulsar goblet
Agree!
tulip mist
Only prob i have with assa is that groups want to chainpull. And If you donβt get into stealth.....rip
mossy ferry
just meld dude
solar rose
it sucks but if you are running 3eb it's not the end of the world
like last season
if tanks did that shit
tulip mist
Nelf 
solar rose
tulip mist
Nelf nerf inc anyway???
pulsar goblet
The tanks I run with kind of understand how much damage can come from garotte so don't mind waiting a second but I'm only running like 16 17s
solar rose
it's toxic if the mob is at 10% and they chain pull, if the plan is to focus one down and then chain im not too upset
solar rose
yeah I mean if you don't get restealths, 3TTK + 1 ss + 2 echoing is actually a nuts setup for M+
pulsar goblet
I'd rather just play outlaw if I wasn't getting re stealth
distant lava
the dream build
lone junco
ugh.
distant lava
aoe and st 
swift timber
is 2 ttk 2 ss 2 eb any good
lone junco
sure
swift timber
or not worth going sort of a hybrid
solar rose
3 eb 3 dd MASSIVE 
lone junco
yeah. thats why ive been playing outlaw. primo kit there.
solar rose
any varation of ttk ss and eb are good in M+
distant lava
it like having 2 uldir sets
solar rose
I ran 2/2/2 for awhile
swift timber
222 seems quite pug friendly
solar rose
I just love to aoe blast so I run 3ss 3eb
but I'm also playing with tanks that let me restealth
distant lava
i just want conclave chest and i'll go sin in some keys
solar rose
if I was pugging I would remove 2 ss and run ttk or something
lone junco
honestly I would love scent if it were vers instead of agi.
lone junco
distant lava
solar rose
maybe I make assa guide for M+ too, just need a break after writing that outlaw one
71 pages was just too much 4 me
lone junco
dont blame you
distant lava
see you in a month flawless
lone junco
you get dollars for that shit?
solar rose
they do indeed pay me
hollow stone
Phd in rog
lone junco
good
distant lava
although tbh the longest part must have been dungeons, which you can reuse most of it
tulip mist
lone junco
olive wharf
Does NP count as poison for the sake of Mastery?
atomic saddle
Does anyone have a WA that plays a sound and announces the target that has "Dark Herald" to get the buff?`
solar rose
ya I already have the foundation, I can just find and replace between the eyes with kidney shot and remove gouge, and riposte w/ Evasion. The way those two work with mechanics are generally the same in M+ out of a few exceptions
lone junco
i liked seeing seli overcap cps with eb in cleave with balanced mob hps
cause TTK would pump too hard
I would love 3ss 3eb. but its not in the cards right now.
solar rose
I got the shrine head 2 weeks ago was super 
swift timber
just get a better one 4head
frigid kestrel
I have fun with just running 3eb, but I can run 3ss.... just can't run both.
swift timber
4head
frigid kestrel
But I also don't do mythic+ often either.
solar rose
3 eb is BIG blast
I salvaged a 410 one 2 days ago π
I don't really like EB in kings rest or temple tho, I'd heavily prefer SS or TTK and fill with EB
swift timber
why salvage just post it on AH, oh wait world of BoPcraft
pulsar goblet
π€
solar rose
wants it to be like the diablo auction house, rip that
languid ore
So everyone can have all the gear
swift timber
well why should boe's only be useful for the first month
pulsar goblet
Pay-to-win baby
They are still useful, they just don't feel every slot and probably shouldn't be weapons
lone junco
cant wait for all loot to be Soulbound cause guild loot was "bad"
swift timber
loot sharing now only works if you bought a blizzard token within the past 30 minutes
lone junco
extreme sarcasm. I did however get carried on my hpal from 260 to 398 in about 8 days.
260 to 375 in 1 night.
solid nova
#wow-general is that way
red zealot
frigid kestrel
Sooo is AMR not a thing anymore?
solid nova
Never was
solid nova
Wouldnt recommend
It's a long story but credibility and accuracy is always disputed.
You'll be fine with raidbots 
frigid kestrel
π
rose wharf
Doas cloak cancel the orb on Grong?
distant lava
no
strange python
what the name of that site that checks your log and gives a quick rundown on whats wrong or not
my memory is bad
wowanalyzer, thanks anyway fellow girls!
atomic saddle
Does the damage in p1 on rastakhan count even tho he is "immune" as long as adds are up due to Bind Soulds (redirects damage you deal to him to his adds)?
civic palm
e z p z
lost sentinel
that is your mastery with the new trinket?
PTR?
oh ok
I mean, I think I could get my mastery up to like... maybe 70-80% range with that mastery trinket in the game right now heh
107% is pretty nuts lol
echo cargo
for the heart trait that gives Vendetta a chance to proc
does that activate NP?
jfc lol
civic palm
lol
distant lava
390 oof
simple meteor
x2 eb x3ss x1 bbi all the way ;;p
harsh sphinx
is this for the new raid
civic palm
lol
bleak spoke
Notlikethis
subtle drift
So i read the opener https://i.imgur.com/PIzOyjo.png
But my garrote is like ~10 seconds left
Should i play normal rota and vanish with 0cp before garrote runs out?
lone junco
still +2 wtf
bleak spoke
Nice job 8D
bleak spoke
@subtle drift exactly as it says you vanish when garrote runs
dry thicket
"Vanish WHEN garrote runs out"
subtle drift
Okay, so i can fill 1 or 2 envenom in it
cobalt gyro
You repeat the last 2 actions until garrote is about to fall off, basically
subtle drift
Thank you
rancid elbow
Guys whats the sap macro to sap any hidden close target?
sonic root
@rancid elbow #showtooltip
/cleartarget
/targetenemyplayer
/cast Sap
hollow stone
that's more of a pvp question, but that's your answer
fringe epoch
it isnt bad?
spice surge
Slightly better than SS on ST
fringe epoch
sim it, single target 1 ss and 1 ttk is usually higher by a little
ripe geyser
Hmm assa lads, how do you feel about playing assa in m+ rn? talking about 14-17 keys
spice surge
Its good
fringe epoch
ye its very good
ripe geyser
Been playing outlaw straight for 2 weeks now and i want to end my life
autumn stag
I used to main outlaw, but I prefer assa actually
ripe geyser
Assa is way more fun
autumn stag
roll the bones ruins outlaw
spice surge
π€· RTB is mostly feels anyway, most of the rng is from pistol shot procs
bleak spoke
pistol shot rng is everything
spice surge
But yeah, assa is definitely very strong in m+
There are plenty of cases where its better than outlaw. Generally things need to live for a bit for assa to be strong
Or rather, assa is doing 100% consistent damage, no cooldowns or anything on aoe
ripe geyser
Haven't played assa in m+ since SS was scuffed back in Uldir
spice surge
Its always gonna do its high sustained dps, whereas eventually outlaw will drop bf uptime
ripe geyser
Is it just FoK and rupture on big pulls?
spice surge
There are a lot of things you can do, its definitely harder to play than outlaw
ripe geyser
Keep garrote on maintarget
spice surge
Na, dont garrote on aoe (outside of stealth)
ripe geyser
kk u had me at "assa is definitely very strong in m+", going big dick assa on my 415 pieces
thx for answers :))
autumn stag
How do you feel about vers as assa?
spice surge
Crit is the best stat for aoe
autumn stag
I thought in general
iron pine
Blizz pls
spice surge
Gz
iron pine
You can almost totally nullify the damage by popping cloak at 25 stacks
spice surge
The damage goes through cloak, so no
iron pine
No it doesn't.
honest vessel
Why would it?
honest vessel
Weird that they would specify damage type and have it go thru immunities
iron pine
Well if I don't use cloak I go down to 26% health, if I do use cloak I only go to 75%.
autumn stag
I think they fixed that
iron pine
If you cloak at the right time it barely tickles
spice surge
I linked it earlier today too :^)
marble hemlock
well, its not stalking until the person being stalked notices
iron pine
lol
spice surge
Because when i was gonna look it up i cba searching for somebody that had it when i know you had it π
marble hemlock
π
spice surge
Ye theres not really any other trinket that is close to the strength of a full 30s lurker
marble hemlock
tbf, galecallers isnt that amazing in a TB build
cobalt gyro
it's more the socket being why i was running it before
marble hemlock
ye
civic palm
Compound actually having to USE GCB > _> easy better.
Though useless in M+ past 20 seconds?
Depends on keys/etc.
cobalt gyro
seems risky in m+
as well as, at least if you're running TTK/EB, mastery isn't as useful
if i get a socket and run my boots from cos
i get almost 28k
pog
marble hemlock
wdym
running ttk means
mastery has big value
due to the higher frequence of direct-damage finishers
that mostly scale via mastery
so far it didnt seem like having the dot run full duration was an issue today
cobalt gyro
envenom scales on mastery?
marble hemlock
marble hemlock
you can always cancel it after vendetta runs out if you want
that cuts the damage you take from it by like 50%
marble hemlock
well
its inconsistent anyway
since the mastery says "increases damage by your poisons"
so does master poisoner
marble hemlock
oh nvm, they changed it to "weapon poisons"
marble hemlock
still not the greatest tooltip on our mastery
couldve just gone the TB way
"increase your bleed and nature damage"
(which would lead to the same confusion once you have a trinket or trait that deals nature damage)
cobalt gyro
interesting
so would you say i should stack more mastery for a TTK build, then? I was focussing more on vers/crit on my set, but the mastery thing might change it a bit
marble hemlock
ye
well
its just a matter of where you wanna focus on more
vers shifty the damage distribution more towards fok/echoing blades
spice surge
The only thing that doesnt really change is that you want crit
marble hemlock
mastery more towards bleeds/envenom
so if you want more prio/st, get more mastery. if you want more aoe, get more vers
distant lava
np over bbi in the shoulders , interesting
cobalt gyro
i deally i'd have 2 eb 2 ss and 3 ttk
bleak spoke
hard to have 7 traits :^)
harsh sphinx
ya i dont think thats doable
bleak spoke
but yeh i think 3:2:1 ttk eb ss
harsh sphinx
but you are nelf so running more ss prob better
i usually run the 3/2/1 like rtb said https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/majUBr9KJDDtft7oVgYF5c
even though SS setup sims a fair bit higher https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/iLhGcauiauoKaPTb1j9prP both are fun though imo
timid cloud
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fehv69rKUsPVMZ3p1gJGB9 Why is my sim so low?
cobalt gyro
because th at's patchwerk and the sims just posted are dungeon slice
somber hill
Are there any sims for the heart forge essences?
timid cloud
For ST. Not asking about Dungeon Slice, sorry, should've clarified.
I already have a nice M+ set.
cobalt gyro
26k isn't really low lol
spice surge
@somber hill They came out like 3 days ago and are very far from finished. They are not yet implemented in simc
@timid cloud Its not really that low as he said, but you have 415 azerites, 415 weapons, no zuldazar set, an agility gem (?) and just few sockets in general
timid cloud
I was going by what my sim had said, it said to run an agi gem for whatever reason.
spice surge
When i sim your character i get 0.2% higher with haste instead π€·
timid cloud
I'm doing a gem replacement as we speak.
somber hill
is there any way to sim Lurker's Insiduous Gift uptime at less than the full duration to see how it would perform if u dont go the full 30 seconds?
hollow stone
Herodamage has generic sims for that so not specific to your char. I dont think theres an option atm in raidbots
civic palm
Yeah HD has 10/20/30 second sims.
bleak spoke
jc ring is nutty https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9WpJeaaZ8WPAoP9TsAaqhB
atomic saddle
dat gear tho
bleak spoke
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/xunWVpAbhSJ5UoEbPB8Atg better with galecallers 8D
solar rose
that dice
spice surge
Just get lurkers and ez +500 dps
harsh sphinx
without zulduzar set bonus too pretty damn hot
obsidian cipher
how good are the legs off first boss?
harsh sphinx
almost double digit sockets too fkn sexy
solar rose
Good assuming you get average procs, I've had some kills where it did 50k damage and others with 300k+
bleak spoke
i definitely need to roll on uunat
hmm, how hard would this trinket kill me on stormwall prog :^)
steep obsidian
lol are they REALLY going to do the CDR on vendetta thing again
c'mon
not that im complaining CDR is op as hell but still
they keep giving it to us and then having to nerf it coz its too strong every time
strange python
toxic blade or exansuinate for world pvp with x3 SS traits?
sturdy python
TB
strange python
okok
sturdy python
Can ask in #pvp for a more detailed answer but TB has been the pvp talent, I assume because of nature damage
short token
is plumage macro'd to toxic blade?
bleak spoke
to vendetta
rancid elbow
Whats going on with the max dps addon?
civic palm
Β―_(γ)_/Β―
civic palm
That's too high for the SpellID for Stealth.
rancid elbow
wdym?
civic palm
These are both "Stealth".
Can you change the Spell ID of the Spell it's trying to tell you to use?
civic palm
and it's throwing an error.
rancid elbow
Apparently I can't change the id so..
civic palm
Already tried dragging the spell back onto your actions bars?
rancid elbow
yeah
unborn root
Any gear in the new raid worth looking out for?
I guess I shouldve checked the pins, but it doesnt look like there's anything there
warm drift
Trinket
unborn root
the nzoth trinket from the 2nd boss? I don't think I'd run it in mythic
civic palm
Don't have to.
unborn root
Jaina already hurts
distant halo
Random question, does elusiveness affect bursting?
unborn root
Only the gloves feel kinda decent
The vendetta heart of azerite trait looks super strong though
having detta randomly pop off and give you energy
seems super broken
unless it doesnt do the energy part
warm drift
Tunings might come
civic palm
Also super not released yet, but as it is it does everything.
unborn root
It's also one of the easier traits to farm too
civic palm
For now O _O
unborn root
I could see outlaw becoming even more of a dominant spec, with the same trait. Random adrenaline rushes and bonus cooldown reduction is pretty huge for them, but I also imagine that outlaw is getting a bit swing with the nerf bat come 8.2.
i dont mind either way, I really dislike playing the spec. I miss my sub, but that's not comming back any time soon. Lul
solar rose
CDR on a lot of classes major cooldowns as well as random procs on them are huge, don't think that makes outlaw an outlier
warm drift
Outlawer
unborn root
Do we get access to all the minor powers?
civic palm
Outlawyer O _O
sleek iron
so boots and trinket are the ones to aim for
civic palm
Maybe leggings, not sure.
winter gale
Guys I have one off the subject question. Is it a good thing to save residuum? I have my bis items and already collected 5k for next patch.
somber hill
Anyone actually using deadly on their weapons at all or just for aoe? maybe i am behind on crit: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gu89c2vwLs2XnPUhixGx5t
harsh sphinx
that lurkers 
keen elk
Should we be pooling to like 100+ energy to envenom while stacking DD traits? My thought is to fit more mutilates in the EP window but Iβm not sure if Iβd actually be losing out on mutilates pooling so consistently.
bleak spoke
you never lose mutilates really as long as you have uptime because you're gated by energy not globals
you want to fit the mutis in EP if possible yes
you shouldn't really ever pool at low cp
like the pattern is to fit the mutilates required for next env in the EP window, then to clip EP if energy/crits allow it, or to pool again
warm parcel
I always had crit on one hand
shy axle
@bleak spoke so you mean -> mut mut -env - Mut mut in ep window, wait til it is nearly done, finish and so on until you cant "chain" those EP windows anymore. Then start pooling and do it again?
shy axle
ye i try, thanks
bleak spoke
i'd say envenoms in tb > env buff mutis > ep mutis > ep envs
shy axle
the way i am doing it for now is if inside Vendetta/Tb to not pool (only very slightly, e.g. not overwrite an EP buff if i wont get any other cast into the buffwindow of ven/tb anymore) and try to get as much envs out there as possible. I remember doing this EP clipping way back in legion - do you mean exactly that like in nighthold if im remeber correctly? I am trying to pool ~ 80 e for Tb window. Always trying to improve. Logs are kinda okay, at least the ilvl% (407), but the general parses in myth are quite low. Idk if it is because i just do sth very wrong, are just not that geared yet or/and other people in the raidgrp are not doing that great as well "pulling everyone down", as harsh as it sounds
real bay
for most bosses you need a zerg strat/cheese combo of traits to parse well
also higher ilvl
because that's what the top ones do
swift timber
as long as you're not like full grey parses I wouldn't worry too much about them
shy axle
ilvl % at around 90, overall at ~ 60 maybe middling 50`s
sleek iron
one COS run.. trinket with socket, boots and leggigns
wow
boots and trinket
800dps upgrade
can simc be trusted rofl
spice surge
It assumes full uptime on boots, which happens some fights and not other fights
Trinket you can have up for 30s if you're not gonna die
But yes, the trinket is an absolute monster
rigid mango
How's the value of forging on the trinket, is it a piece were forging could be better than sockets or sockets still king?
spice surge
Generally a socket is worth 5-10 ilvls on a trinket, depending on how good the trinket is. If its bad it could be worth even more
sleek iron
so its just the mastery lasting 30 seconds that makes it good eh?
i almost killed myself on the training dummy
bleak spoke
If I got the trinket at 410 Iβd sim 28 I think
spice surge
The trinket is still amazing if you only have it up for 20s
So if you're worried about dying just turn it of after 20s. The trinket does 50% of its damage during the first 21 seconds and the other 50% during the last 9
marble hemlock
well, the trinket is pretty accurate i think
the problem with boots is that the sim doesnt consider you taking damage at all, so they have 100% uptime
which is very very unlikely to be the case in an actual encounter
and significantly lowers their value
spice surge
Well seli, most damage doesnt break it
marble hemlock
i guess only stuff thats considered a hit does?
spice surge
You can have 100% uptime on conclave for example
and mekka if you dont get bombs
Its pretty RNG
Which mechanics remove stacks
marble hemlock
ye, judging by the tooltip i was assuming that every damage will break them
spice surge
Rasta 100% too if you dont take balls
Its the same as overwhelming power
Same "on damage" proc, so boots are absolute garbage on jaina
marble hemlock
scorching detonation/plague of fire dont break it?
spice surge
Nop
marble hemlock
thats weird for sure
spice surge
Generally, if you can feint the damage
It doesnt remove the stacks
Or well, plague might now that you mention it, the log i watched didnt get it
marble hemlock
i guess its mostly avoidable damage then that will break it
spice surge
It sortof ties in to the "feint not working" problem
Or it being the cause of it? Idk
marble hemlock
but ye, that definitely makes the boots a lot more attractive
spice surge
Mostly for early bosses though, they're bad on both jaina and blockade
Havent checked crucible yet, possibly good there
marble hemlock
so theyre breaking on feintable damage, and dont break on non-feintable?
(generally speaking, with exceptions)
guess thats due to most non-feintable stuff being coded in a way that its not an aoe hit, but every play individually losing health
or taking ticking damage, even if its just a single tick
as is the case with siegebreaker for example
would make them pretty bad for m+ then, since a lot of the stuff in dungeons is still feintable, albeit with quite a few exceptions to that rule
bleak spoke
The stat budget on them is so enormous I might try to make it work anyway if I get them
bleak spoke
I think the other way it can be seen is βat x stacks itβs better than equivalent ilevel bootsβ and then add on stacks for sockets and such
Basically I think if itβs not damage you have control over they tried to make it so you donβt lose stacks
sleek iron
at 7 stacks its better than my 410 w/ socket
bleak spoke
How long to get a stack again
sleek iron
one auto attk
bleak spoke
So like basically every second
bleak spoke
So like 4 stacks every 3 seconds?
sleek iron
yeah
bleak spoke
So unless thereβs constant ticking dmg itβs gonna be better
sleek iron
i like the way you think
thanks
if i can keep it up for longer than 6+ seconds
between taking dmg
then its worth it
bleak spoke
What does it stack to
sleek iron
220 crit [410ilvl]
bleak spoke
That is very crit
sleek iron
lol
bleak spoke
I think worth tbh
sleek iron
this comparison is compared 410 version with a 410 boots w/ socket
presumably itll be even better for a non socketed boots
bleak spoke
But boots donβt necessarily get much better stat wise
So if you can keep going for like a second or two more then itβs better than 425s with socket
sleek iron
i also got the leggings.. sims better than haste/mastery 415 leggings crafted
that one should be easier to keep up.. above 60% hp
bleak spoke
Once youβre under and waste the proc itβs very unfortunate though
That might be a bit closer than the boots imo
bleak spoke
Yeah basically if you lose a single proc youβre donezo
bleak spoke
Ironically itβs more important not to get hit with the legs I think
Wait @spice surge how do boots interact with trinket
Thatβs the million dollar question
bleak spoke
Okay thatβs big
bleak spoke
Hmm, I wonder if you actually delay TB vanish with ma
Wearing the boots
Probably not but
bleak spoke
For them to stack up
sleek iron
get 10 stacks first you mean
bleak spoke
You can do the janky muti opener
bleak spoke
Like m r m g v env m Tb vanish env m env etc
bleak spoke
Thatβs the unlucky opener tho
bleak spoke
Like if you get the crits itβll be g m r v m tb vanish e m e
sleek iron
wait.. what?
bleak spoke
Like you had to do another muti after rupture right
sleek iron
ya
spice surge
Boots doesn't break by the trinket
bleak spoke
Thatβs pretty unfortunate
bleak spoke
Yeee it seems good
spice surge
And trinket
sleek iron
yeah @spice surge i just tested it
bleak spoke
Eleem have you seen the muti rupture muti opener
Like where you open muti out of stealth and if you only get 3 cp you do m g r
But if you get do you do m r m g
sleek iron
using ma to take advantage of getting seal fate procs?
instead of g m r
that makes sense sort of
bleak spoke
I thought maybe that might be the play with boots cuz you delay naturally
Cuz after vendetta youβre gonna be at 4 or 5 barring a disaster
So you envenom immediately, muti, tb and then youβre either the least lucky person and have 3
But itβs fine cuz you have env buff rolling for the muti and itβs the last global from the envenom ep
sleek iron
why dont we do m r m g already instead of the g m r m
is there a reason for that normally
bleak spoke
Cuz itβs slower
Also I guess if you get fucked hard itβs much worse
Like if you muti and have 2 then you probably want to do m g m r
And then youβve actually just eaten a global and youβre down like 50 energy
sleek iron
yeah i guess its about the consistency
bleak spoke
I think if you get 4 out of the gate itβs better
If you get 3 youβre down like 7 energy
If you get 2 itβs very unlucky
bleak spoke
9% chance of that, napkin math says
sleek iron
i actually prefer high crit its more fun to play with
instead of this slogfest with haste/mastery
bleak spoke
And you delay like 2-3 globals via rotation
I mean if you do g m out of stealth and have 3 thatβs kinda scuffed anyway
Thatβs the one where if you take all your envenoms in Tb you risk rupture falling off kinda
spice surge
Thing is, the opener isnt actually very relevant
Its been simmed before trying to open mut>rupt>mut and it has been either equal or slightly bellow the standard one
The difference is just so small
sleek iron
leggings dmg proc can crit
the heal doesnt seem to
for one whole kings rest run leggings proc 35 times
strange python
WIth my current gear
I am able to go 3ttk 2eb 1ss
or I can also go 3eb 1ss 1scent 1np/1ttk ( which seems like to be a build alot of people run)
I know the rotation for the later build, get imp. garrotes off then Rupture 4-5 mobs and continue
How does the rotation for 3ttk differ? Especially during reaping? Should I not worry too much about putting ruptures up?
spice surge
You dont need garrotes and 4-5 ruptures
You need a total of 4 bleeds to not go energy negative
After that you can either use envenom if you want priority damage or you fok for aoe damage
strange python
oh okay
and it depends on how big the pack is i'm sure, but it is possibly w/ 3ttf that just spamming FoK is more DPS than using the 4-5cps for an envenom?
spice surge
Depends on if you want priority damage
strange python
ok
spice surge
If there is 1 big dude and multiple small ones, you envenom the big dude, if everything is the same health you fok
Not same health % but absolute numbers
strange python
Now the 3ttk build.. are you to run HIdden BLades? or Poison bomb?
spice surge
If you go ttk you do it for ST and priority damage instead of just full aoe blast
Are you gonna take a full aoe blast talent or a ST and priority damage talent with that?
strange python
ah
mmk
It depends I guess... Maybe I want the poison bomb for bosses on tyrannical week.. but still have 3eb for a dungeon w/ lots of big pulls, ie waycrest?
bold hearth
Trying to figure out what the best azerite combo is for 2-3 targets is killing me
desert orchid
echoing blades stack right?
spice surge
Yes, damage/stats/healing always stack
Anything else never does. With all traits in the game
tribal crypt
Are we better than Outlaw in terms of ST damage?
stuck knoll
Yes
tribal crypt
If my main goal is M+, should I take Assassination or Outlaw if I love them both?
tribal crypt
It's hard due to Azerites and weapons
vast forum
hard is not impossible π
cosmic pier
get 3 deadshot and 1 wits, ez damage
spice surge
Definitely possible, it just takes a few seconds to set it up
stuck knoll
Assa is very close to Outlaw in m+
And with the affix swap next season will likely become the go to again
tribal crypt
I see. I just love my slow so much:-)
simple meteor
bring back legion sub
dark crag
RotS, Rise of the Subs
strange python
stuck between keeping all my gems the same for the ocd but also wanna mix match like raidbots says π
spice surge
Because a jewelcrafter and do the JC quest
Remove gems from their sockets for free EZ
strange python
I didnt even know that was a thing pog
bold hearth
I get to finally play SS again next week
visual quartz
@gusty kestrel whats next season looking like?
edgy pawn
afaik there is no hint at the seasonal affix yet
they said they dont want another aoe-festival tho
hollow stone
Theres prob a few mobs throughout the dungeon with a naga debuff that makes them spawn naga when they die that disease other mobs w the debuff and heals other mobs in proximity
Something original like that
royal lantern
when you sim with the CoS trinket, it goes for full 30sec?
or is there allready a option for only 20sec?
spice surge
Raidbots doesnt have the option, if you really want to you can press the "More Info" thing on the top of raidbots
And do it in advanced
Or you can get a hunch based on the herodamage sims
royal lantern
@spice surge you linked that list with the dmg taken from the trinket once right? cus something is weird
i just tried it out, and after the full 30sec i was at like 42%hp with 0 healing
simple meteor
maybe tf mythic version
royal lantern
the tooltip on the trinket itself says its starting 354 dmg, but the 1st stack gave me 120dmg, and 20dmg more on each stack?
the hc version starts with 60dmg and gains 20 with each stack
apperantly
thats weird
spice surge
Idk the logs i've seen are pretty consistent with the tooltip
spice surge
Well how much damage does it actually do
royal lantern
3stacks
royal lantern
lowstacks
strange python
I have the normal version so its higher
strange python
testing now
227k hp total
108k after trink
119k dmg with the normal version
spice surge
Yeah, 305 per stack, roughly the same as the 307 the tooltip of a normal trinket
royal lantern
yeha, combat log shows other numbers too, but the list you seend once is not right
spice surge
Well, it was based on the mythic version, not the hc one
royal lantern
i somewhat doubt that the mythic version will make THAT much more dmg...?
spice surge
Like, 25k more?
spice surge
If you are refering to the one that said like 260k, that was before they nerfed the mastery and the damage
real bay
its fine, you're helping healers parse
lost horizon
Honestly the damage is pretty manageable
royal lantern
yeha, still wont use it for longer then the 20sec, but its way lower then i thought
atleast if not everyone is using it stupid in high dmg phases
lost horizon
I was honestly thinking it'd be to the point where without healing you'd have to cancel it or you'd die
spice surge
It used to be like that, before the nerfed it. During early ptr
It did like 260k overall and gave like 200 more mastery
lost horizon
Ahh fair enough
royal lantern
yeha, that was probably why i was confused
didnt got the memo that the dmg was actually nerfed
but losing ~50%max hp is way more easy too handle
strange python
Can you or can you not cloak the stacks away?
hollow stone
Cant cloak the stacks or the dmg
winter gale
Anyone knows is it good to save titan residuum for 8.2 ?
Or I can maybe go obtain assa mythic + gear since I have raiding and Outlaw items.
spice surge
Sloot said the costs are probably gonna be 25x what they are now
winter gale
Y, so this shit that I gather wont worth a dime π
spice surge
So 5x per +15 ilvl insted of 3x per +15 like it is now
solar bramble
:(, seeing as how 7k is already really damn high for a specific piece
why not add a specific 400 in for the price of a 415 random and so on
winter gale
I am not sure what to do. I have bis assa for rading and bis Outlaw for mythic +. I saved 5k residuum atm
spice surge
So the expected cost of a random 445 item should be around 40-45k
spice surge
Well, you're gonna get 25x as much
real bay
you get a lot more in new season
winter gale
Y. Like, what I gathered so far u will get in one week π
spice surge
From doing a +10, now you get like 600
real bay
do a 15 in season 3 and you get more than half the cost of random
hazy geyser
did someone run the numbers? will that make it easier or harder to get azerite pieces?
cobalt pelican
it's only worth saving if you have nothing else you want this tier really
royal lantern
yeha, im saving cus there is 0 reason for me too buy anything
got m+ gear, got raid gear, why waste it now
hazy geyser
i am trying to maintain both assass and outlaw so i am basically buying a piece everytime i can >_>
spice surge
Its gonna be exactly as hard as it is right now
hazy geyser
ok thats not so bad
coral tusk
guys,would you go 415 one piece with TTK POB or 400 with EB/TTK and SS in m+ this week
hazy geyser
i would have atleast 1 SS
coral tusk
i have in 1 piece,i have 1 TTK 1 SS 1 TC and 1 EB
spice surge
POB?
solar bramble
wait, we get 25x as much residuum in 8.2? so you mean we'll basically be able to pick and choose the 415's we wanna start with if we don't already have them? likely better than a random 430 (assuming you aren't doing mythic and getting 445's)
coral tusk
25Ρ More?is it official?then no point to store residuum now?
stuck knoll
Uhh
Depends I suppose but you should be able to get random 415s in all slots before 8.2
solar bramble
well, i'll still be storing residuum atm for some base 415's. but ya if it's 25x as much on a weekly basis, theirs literally no reason to store up.
real bay
pretty much like last season end
solar bramble
well a random 415 vs a specific 415 is massive. a 25x as much would give me over 30k a week. that'll let me pick 3 specific 415's based entirely off of the ones i want. that would require the 445 randoms to be close to 30k. (a weekly 10+), and specific 445's at like 150k+
so i'm pretty skeptical the growth will be that high
but it's almost the only way to keep people from stockpiling using the current raid split runs and stacking up
real bay
dont think you can buy specific only the highest ilvl is specific
solar bramble
and throwing off the balance of the first race
spice surge
Yeah when the 400 and 415 were released they removed the specific 385
So i assume they will do the same
solar bramble
sure it won't end up as just 400's ?
solar bramble
the thing about specific 415's is you can get the 415 versions from the dungeons. which for some is BiS over raid. . . . .
stuck knoll
BiS piece < 30-45 ilvl
solar bramble
well it would be 415 vs 430 . . . . 445 is only viable if your doing raid i'm pretty sure.
solar bramble
not if their like this tier traits. i sim higher with 2 pieces at 15 lvls under. one of my sets i have a 25 ilvl drop on one piece that sims higher (only slightly because agility). strictly because the traits on the 30 (including genaric) is abyssmal. . . . so it's trait specific. if the higher ilvl has some of your horridly worst traits for your class . . . . . . yuck
stuck knoll
Yeah but you're not guaranteed worst piece first time
And it's only if it's like the best piece vs the literal worst
solar bramble
my healer has 2 traits 15 under (mw) strictly because they have a specific trait relative to the higher pieces that lack it . . . . . . if your not doing mythic raiding i'm assuming 430 is the highest piece (heroic) that you'll have access to. if that's the case a 415 specific could easily end up better
solar bramble
that's the point i'm getting at. a specific 415 set, that you can completely customize would probably be better than random 430's outside luck . . . .
spice surge
Idk what you're arguing about
solar bramble
i'm at school atm so i can't go over the specific comparison
were arguing that specific 415's are better/worse than completely random 430's
spice surge
Because a random 430 is gonna be roughly as expensive as a specific 415 anyway
And you should save for random 445s instead
Anyway
stuck knoll
Np @gusty kestrel I got you
solar bramble
i'd rather have specific 445's lol. but blizz doesn't want you to have access to the traits you get
if i'm saving 3-4 weeks for something, i don't want it to be so h yper random lol
real bay
have to save like 1.5-2 months for specific
spice surge
Depends on what level of content you do
solar bramble
same . . . . 7.1k takes me about 7 weeks
assuming 1200ish from my weekly cache
with the occasional i hate this week, lets just do a basic 10
vast forum
1200ish from weekly cache would mean doing a 30 or smt
distant lava
you get 1k for a 21
vast forum
and ~20 per level from there iirc
so 31 for 1200
or was it 30 per level?
yea 20 as i thought
so @solar bramble you need to do a +31 to get your weekly 1200 π
lost tree
did anyone tested Idol of Indiscriminate Consumption ? not listed on BM
lost horizon
I mean technically there's a damage component assuming it prefers hostile targets
lost tree
okay i guess its not good then ._.
lost horizon
But if you're not using that thing to kill your friends you're using it wrong imo
vast forum
yea that thing needs a massive buff to ever be worth using
lost horizon
kill your friends with it
Then get the other trinket to kill yourself too
Easy game
Lmfao
I swear I didn't hold it to intentionally use it after the tank had 1% health!
stuck knoll
Someone said earlier it does prefer enemies but even still it's a big yikes
spice surge
How much does yulon do?
lost horizon
65k if 7 targets or more
languid ore
Most of the time it's more than 7
stuck knoll
7 targets or your healers got more work to do
lost horizon
But honesty seems like it's supposed to be for tanks
It's the self heal that's actually valuable for tanks, the dmg it deals to friendlies is pretty negligible
mossy ferry
I got a 410 socketed one. Very disappointing it wasn't the other trinket.
lost horizon
Compare it to like, bandages and it's aight
1min is fairly short CD too
Though bandages have the advantage of being a shield
solar bramble
well, i only get like 12's on the high end lol. but 7 weeks either way. @vast forum
lost horizon
oh for real? can you block?
i got one but never actually used it lmao
that's fucked
solidifies the leech trinket as being pretty decent imo
just used bandages but didn't get 'stunned' or anything
sweet rampart
Welp just came back from a 4 month absence, how are rogues at the moment? Middle of the pack?
spice surge
Top of the pack
lost horizon
very strong in raid, unreal in M+
languid ore
Sub is number 1 again
sweet rampart
Haha i donβt believe you π
Unreal in M+ is that outlaw? I know that was pretty good back when i played, did it get better??
languid ore
Nothing's really changed
stuck knoll
Outlaw and Sin are 1st and 2nd m+ specs
lost horizon
sin's honestly nasty for M+ too
languid ore
Come back for 8.2. Unlimited cooldowns apparently
lost horizon
it's less played than it's output deserves tbh
sweet rampart
Oh dang, now i remember sin was very good at cleave because you just put bleeds out right? But once it became 5+ outlaw starting pulling ahead more. Same concept?
lost horizon
not really
they're both good for mass AoE, sin is just pickier about gearing for it
stuck knoll
People aren't playing it because they over value how good outlaw is
sweet rampart
Is it waiting for poison bomb to proc? Or did they add a mechanic to sin?
Yeah 4 months ago i played outlaw and loved it, i assume it is unchanged. Did just enough to get by waiting for rtb, then when rtb happened you pulled ahead
languid ore
I don't think it's overvalue, more like it's easier to play
And get geared for
1 wits and you're good to go~~~
lost horizon
it's more like undervaluing how much sin can blast tbh
stuck knoll
EB sin doesn't exactly require rocket science
languid ore
I don't think I've ever pulled ahead as outlaw in raid unless I started with a 5stack. And still only managed top 5
It doesn't. But it requires some luck
lost horizon
@stuck knoll what do you mean dude, it requires intense focus to press FoK on GCD
sweet rampart
Fuuβs sin guide up to date?
lost horizon
once in a while you gotta rupture too, it's fucked
stuck knoll
Mate
trim forge
@languid ore same ... that being sais everything evens out over the course of the fight
stuck knoll
My small outlaw brains about to explode
lost horizon
FoK is an abbreviation btw, you wouldn't know about those i guess
royal lantern
doing 5bleeds and spamming fok needs SO MUCH MORE SKILL then pressing bladeflurry and doing the ST dmg rotation!
(its a joke, pls dont reee at me)
stuck knoll
Abbreviations someone should make a list
Nah uh dude
Gotta bind bf to multiple keys
Gives the experience of need multiple keys
lost horizon
yeah i bet someone should suggesthat to some mod or community figure or something like that
trim forge
I havent sin since Legion. I may be lazy but I hate having to put dots on multiple targets
sweet rampart
@gusty kestrel becusse i have been here before in the past when stuff isnβt updated lol it has been mostly but there were some gaps a year or 2 ago
languid ore
I've literally had someone tell me it's easier because I don't have to tab switch. π€·πΎββοΈ
I'm not talking personal experience. I love both
lost horizon
is there anything that isn't in bfa?
languid ore
Nothing in this game is hard
royal lantern
(i like sin aoe more cus the EB sound is π )
sweet rampart
ST both comparable? Pick your flavor?
languid ore
I'm almost positive they were trying to make the game controller friendly for console and gave up
trim forge
Well, if you bind on use trinkets to SS & AR to bones you can get down to like 4 buttons π
lost horizon
sorta @sweet rampart but honestly you should play whichever you prefer
outlaw's fine for ST but sin does have some notable advantages
royal lantern
@sweet rampart sin is slighty better for raids right now, outlaw better for m+ and needs less gear, sin needs gear too get really strong for m+
lost horizon
sweet rampart
I love both specs haha so my preference is both haha
royal lantern
but both are good and vialbe for high raiding and high m+
stuck knoll
I always recommend sin for raid if you don't prefer outlaw
lost horizon
then play both!
@gusty kestrel you but you gotta be like, 12 and two halves to do 95+
pretty huge brain
sweet rampart
Man i had a hard time playing both 4 months ago. Those damn azerite traits, plus weapons that you needed
royal lantern
i mean, the classes are not the hard part in wow
sweet rampart
Had to default to outlaw because i could just NEVER get good sin traits
lost horizon
i miss having some actual depth
royal lantern
the fights are the thing that makes the fight intesting, class gameplay is pretty simple for almost everything
lost horizon
like yeah sometimes complexity can just be clutter but a LOT of the time it added some very much needed depth
languid ore
Wasn't sin even easier back in the day
lost horizon
i'm def with ronkles though re: sin for raid
royal lantern
when i look at the typical dh/druid/warlock
im happy that the classes are simple lol
lost horizon
i can't speak for 'back in the day' since i only started in legion π€·
languid ore
Mut rupture env π
trim forge
I need to try sin in raid soon ... I hated fury play style and outlaw is so chill so thats what I rolled with
stuck knoll
I play outlaw in raid cuz I β€ it but I don't think there's really ever a way that it beats sin without being bonkers overtuned
lost horizon
the way sin works just makes it good for raid flat out
royal lantern
yeha
trim forge
I also think outlaw is awesome for farming
royal lantern
its wow, dots are broken for raids
lost horizon
like if the patchwerk sim is roughly comparable
it's way better
only time i can imagine it falling behind is like
really fucking frequent and gross target swapping where the target doesn't actually die
stuck knoll
Burst, slightly better ST, and downtime not being the worst
lost horizon
fuckin conclave bosses... give me my rupture energy back
royal lantern
404subnotfound
lost horizon
i just want sub to be that juicy high frequency burst window spec again
i wanna blast every 25seconds and then be useless inbetween while i set up for next SoD 
trim forge
I would like Blizz to not nerf a spec into the ground because of pvp
royal lantern
the sad part
lost horizon
and prenerf TFD making NS viable... so energy mattered again... fuuuuuck
royal lantern
sub would have been the same in legion too if DfA would haven been worse ._.
trim forge
My opinion is that sub requires a lot of work to be good ... and good is so bad its not worth the work
trim forge
But sub has neat buttons to push!
rancid elbow
Guys, little problem here with MaxDps Helper addon, can't seem to fix it, any help?
lost horizon
TFD nerf was the last nail in the coffin for me
royal lantern
im somewhat happy that sub is bad right now
because that means i dont need too play current sub
lost horizon
@rancid elbow never heard of that addon, check if it's out of date, and if it's not check if the addon has been updated at all
strange python
Im okey with it not being TF π