^
#assassination
strange python
dark crag
With too much passive cleave people, outlaw would kill it
dark crag
= more cleave
spice surge
As long as it doesnt die it doesnt matter
dark crag
Thats true
hollow stone
Thats what i would have said if i cared to explain that in depth ❤️ eleem
Its zul all over again
People cleave for more st. other cleave for more epeen
spice surge
Most casters actually get more damage from cleaving too though
strange python
what traits for temple this week?
wise star
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
mint peak
Destro locks gonna be pissed at you cleaving that ele so their flashpoint goes inactive
Although it worked fine for BDG
fossil slate
@dark crag thanks for tour input on the pooling stuff dude
smoky bluff
Glory to Sinkind
jolly fable
what traits should i be running for m+ with sin?
rigid mango
Ttk ss eb bbi
vestal wren
ss is rly strong, rest depends
rigid mango
Normally 1-2 eb
A couple ttk wont do harm, and bbi is really good if you're lucky enough to get goraks
primal gazelle
3 Eb minimum
vestal carbon
So whats the best 3 dungeons to farm a dagger
primal gazelle
Depends what stats u want
hollow stone
Just for a mh or are you looking for stat optimizing too?
primal gazelle
Shrine for crit/verse - pad spec
hollow stone
And stats for raid or m+?
primal gazelle
Kr for haste/mast for ST
hollow stone
Pretty sure ad has a dagg too and i think its the crit mast one. But need that to be confirmed
So for m+ youd want shrine and wherever the crit mast one comes from. Again, i thinj its ad but may be wrong
vestal carbon
Cool thanks 👍
atomic willow
do FH and KR both have a good dagger trink
old knot
When do we go PB/CT/HB? For M+
atomic willow
top 3 to run for daggers is 100% fh (dagger and dice) Kr( dagger and plumage) and Shrine (dagger and boon) @vestal carbon
just for the tf proc on a BiS trink
atomic willow
wowlucky
tropic ocean
they both have the same loot table
freehold is vers/mastery, tol dagor is crit/haste, underrot is crit/mastery, atal is haste/vers, kr is haste/mastery
atomic willow
^^^^ agreed if your ONLY looking for dagger
cosmic prism
should i have a wa for envenom?
clever niche
Ideally yes, you don’t want to overlap too much
lost sentinel
I want any 410 dagger to drop =/
tawdry rune
Hey so I don't know what it was I changed but my garrote out of stealth used to generate 2 combo points but now doesn't, was that a talent or azerite trait?
inner pecan
undone sand
Hello, I have a small question about my rogue assasination !
I would like to know why on a rotation that I try to learn, the person advises me to put a potion at the start of my fufu and another on my vendetta ..
earnest token
one for pre fight another for when vendetta comes off cds most likely
royal lantern
tbf, you mostly use #2 pot with hero anyway
undone sand
If I understood correctly, it's when my vendetta is not up for the fight ??
undone sand
Okey ! thanks 😃
earnest token
if you in theory are doing m+ and vendetta isnt up you would still prepot and then either hold vendetta or just press it when it comes off cd. if it doesnt line up with pot its whatever
unless you know the timings of how long the fight will last and can wait to line up potion with vendetta
atleast thats how i see it
obsidian ruin
Q: crucible items arent properly implemented in raidbots yet re they?
bleak spoke
If vendetta isn’t up for the start you hold vanish for when it comes up in m+ usually
In a lot of tyrannical fights where you get a second vendetta and it drags on for a while after that it’s not really much of a loss
shy dust
Is there a benefit to using toxic blade before you vanish with MA talented?
shy dust
the opener on ravenholdt states that you open with TB in the window
thats considered better dps wise?
bleak spoke
higher variance if you use vanish after tb
nimble tartan
pearl bear
whats the single best way to improve your dps? im stuggling to maintain 15k dps at 397
dark crag
Getting better gear and understanding the fundamental functions of your spec
strange python
read guides
umbral fiber
pearl bear
hehe why im here
dark crag
Most mistakes are too many muts, cp wasting, bleeds dropping and key spamming
pearl bear
i think thats my main problem is too many muts, but when ya get bleeds and everything rolling ....
dark crag
You need to chill as assa
Spamming buttons is for outlaw and subs in shadowdance
When you have bleeds up and cps. You pool a bit, finish with envenom and inside eb/env you build cps again.
pearl bear
hmm never thought of slowing down, ill give that a go
dark crag
You only lose dps when you waste exccessive amounts of cp (muti at 4cp), dropping bleeds, capping energy and misuse of cd (tb not on cd, vanish vendetta heavy desync)
Like you build with muti to 4+ cp and at 40 energy you finish.
Don't try to play around eb outside cds
atleast 2 envenoms inside tb and try to muti with eb/evn up without losing track of bleeds
Example: 3cp, tb, 4+ cp, Envenom, muti to 4+cp, wait for eb to get to like 0.1 sec, envenom again, without capping energy. If you have the energyreg (np trait, lust, haste trinket what ever) you will ofcourse use more envenoms and mutis because capping energy violates rogue rules.
pearl bear
ok thanks so much
civic belfry
can I have a completely unbiased answer - what's the best spec atm?
pastel vault
sin
lone junco
@undone sand that second pot needs to be at a vendetta vanish later in the fight.
civic belfry
which talent should I put for level 75 (internal bleeding, iron wire, prey on the weak)? they all look really good imo
oh and master assassin vs subterfuge
civic palm
For what content?
Iron Wire is very good in Dungeons, IB and Prey are nice in raids when there are targets that you can stun.
lone junco
SIN GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ FAQ IN PINS-->
civic belfry
and i'm levelling still so dungeons also
civic palm
If you are still leveling then probably Iron Wire.
Just to help with keeping things silenced so the tank can get things to where they want them.
civic belfry
ok thanks ^^
civic palm
👌
hoary copper
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
ionic dome
Do you keep Rupture up on all targets assuming they live for the duration.? Or do you just rupture Priority Target and Garrote everything.?
civic palm
In which setting? Raid, Dungeon, PVP?
vestal carbon
echoing blade or double dose?
civic palm
For which setting? Raid, Dungeon, PVP?
tranquil silo
EB is only good for aoe
civic palm
0xDD for dungeons, 3xDD for raids.
1+ EB for Dungeons, 0xEB for raids.
NP is better in raids than Dungeons, but is fine if you have no options.
vestal carbon
cool thanks
icy girder
outlaw nerf
feral solstice
Will still be broken in m+ 😋
civic palm
Probably not.
rigid mango
Wits being nerfed that hard and not any other rogue utility should leave sin as the best spec for m+
One can hope atleast
civic palm
Probably not.
robust light
dark crag
how is that meant? 5% per bf use?
rigid mango
What, the nerf?
dark crag
yes
rigid mango
The big nerf is to the stack gaining i believe
So it should mean sin should probs be the best, seeing as how wits was keeping sin as the best
civic palm
You have a higher chance per BF swing to gain a stack, but way fewer chances per AA to trigger WITS.
marble hemlock
imagine thinking assa isnt already up to par with outlaw currently 😃
rigid mango
Well, in a pug situation
Where people pull like maniacs
Outlaw is simpler to play, and with the pug mentality, more wantee
languid ore
they're all simple to play. just less apm as sin
civic palm
much apm
near pilot
elder gulch
Streaming and MDI makes m+ so weird at times. I was bored and wanted to do a 10 KR to farm for Plum. I have 1700 io, and he asked me if I was outlaw. when I said "no i'm sin" he declined me
lost horizon
Yikes
marble hemlock
yeah, pretty sad
community perception always sucks
everything thats not fotm, is automatically assumed to be bad
lost horizon
That's 100% someone who's never played rogue
fathom viper
there's like legitimately so few specs at a time that are actually bad
and especially for a 10 there's none
marble hemlock
well
fathom viper
everyone wants to be Method or an MDI team, kinda yikes
marble hemlock
always gotta keep in mind, if youre applying for someone elses key
warm parcel
Sub 
lost horizon
I honestly play sin in KR over outlaw anyway
marble hemlock
you getting declined, is not about you
its about the group/leader wanting someone else instead
fathom viper
absolutely
marble hemlock
who might be a "better" fit
so if youre getting declined, that doesnst mean that he doesnt think that youre worthy or capable of finishing the key, the leader just assumes/thinks that by taking someone else, he has better chances
lost horizon
My personal record for overall is with sin 🤷
fathom viper
in his specific scenario the decline was due to him being outlaw
marble hemlock
lots of people think "i got declined, is my score not good enough?" when thats the wrong question 😄
elder gulch
well the thing is, he basically thought "1700 io sin is far worse than a regular +10 io outlaw"
fathom viper
I mean, theoretically it is
warm parcel
People are just placing arbitrary values to things when picking pugs
elder gulch
lol
marble hemlock
well, timing keys isnt really arbitrary
warm parcel
You might not pick the russian if a nonrussian signs up cause you feel he might perform better
fathom viper
Seliathan's premise is that they have all the right to pick a better fit to time their key
marble hemlock
when 20+ people apply for a key, the leader just needs to find a way to filter to find the person that he thinks would be most capable of timing the key as quickly/safely as possible
fathom viper
for a 10 I just take whoever has an item level
lost horizon
Sometimes pickiness is justified, like 'oh our group doesn't have a brez so I'm looking for a brez class'
fathom viper
tbh
warm parcel
But thats 100% assuming random things about randoms
marble hemlock
so if he picks one of the 20
that doesnt mean that the other 19 wouldnt have been a good fit too
lost horizon
Shit like that I get
marble hemlock
its just that one person seemingly being the best fit
so getting declined just isnt about you not being good enough to be invited
marble hemlock
no
lost horizon
Being declined after an additional interaction though is rip
fathom viper
so if you don't objectify it, isn't it arbitrary?
marble hemlock
its not arbitrary at all
marble hemlock
arbitrary would be picking someone at random
or because
of the server he comes from
which has no relation to his potential performance
fathom viper
yeah, my premise was that if you just PUG a random 10, it's going to almost always be arbitrary
but that doesn't line up at all obviously, right?
lost horizon
I usually pick people who have the best sounding names if I'm doing lowbie stuff
fathom viper
fair
lost horizon
Gotta have a system 👌
marble hemlock
pretty sure theres people out there who just pick 4 players that all have the most girly-sounding names in order to creep on women
that would be arbitrary
fathom viper
I mean
marble hemlock
since it has no relation whatsoever to whether you time a key or not
but as a group leader, you just want the group with the biggest room for error
fathom viper
yeah there's going to be some method
I think the results with those methods will lead to random results at the low end
marble hemlock
in todays age due to tf and stuff, ilvl isnt a good indicator of player skill
neither is rio score, but its the best we have
fathom viper
yeah but at 400 ilvl they can auto attack the boss and do 10k DPS
which wen I do low keys is all I really care aboutt
elder gulch
more important than io in my opinion is how many 10-14 keys timed, 15+ timed etc... More experience has lower chance of failure
marble hemlock
it doesnt matter what level we're talking about though, if its mouth-breathing gameplay levels or the highest caliber, having higher ilvl and/or higher rio score indicated that youre the one-eyed king within a bunch of blind peasants
cobalt gyro
you get what you put into it
lost horizon
I mean tbf current m+ is much more punishing to mechanical failure
marble hemlock
whenever i actually check for peoples score
lost horizon
Missed interrupts are a way bigger deal than in legion
marble hemlock
i usually check whether they got their score all within one week only
if they did, i decline
fathom viper
interesting, why?
elder gulch
push weeks are a thing
cobalt gyro
and never do keys after that
lost horizon
Boostybois
marble hemlock
because its almost exclusively people who only play once every 4-6weeks whenever a good pushweek comes along, basically only playing when its easiest
cobalt gyro
so they hardly know the routes/dungeons/etdc
fathom viper
okay, we're literally talking about two different levels
I absolutely agree with youo
lost horizon
Tbf though who wants to push score upgrades on explosive
cobalt gyro
it's understandable that a good player will have a lot of their good runs on the same week
fathom viper
and the level does matter
marble hemlock
so theyre neither regular m+ players, nor can i expect them to be capable of dealing with some of the harder affixexs in the correct way
cobalt gyro
but you also gotta look - are they running lots of keys?
are they just running weeklies and pushing on easy weeks? etc
marble hemlock
id rather take someone with 2k score who did their keys during a week like the current one, than someone with 2.6k who only plays during volcanic/raging
cobalt gyro
^ same
fathom viper
right, but what about the 3k people who one upped all their keys for 3200?
marble hemlock
(overexaggerating a little bit)
lost horizon
That takes a bit more rigor to check tbh
marble hemlock
but theres certainly a tendency for some people, esp in bfa, to only push during easy weeks
and not play year-round
lost horizon
Cause everyone ends up with their best keys on easy weeks anyway
marble hemlock
some keys are easier in some weeks than others
cobalt gyro
but if they're coinsistently playing, you'll see stuff liek that
marble hemlock
theyre not all easiest within the same week
lost horizon
Yeah but it's relative to the dungeon
marble hemlock
so someone who plays regularly and pushes even in harder weeks, will end up with a decent spread of affixes on all their best runs
lost horizon
Any fort week is easy for TD
cobalt gyro
tyr/teeming/volcanic, one of those runs in that image is a motherlode
volanic is easy, but teeming tyrannical ML isn't a joke
marble hemlock
like, i dont expect to see 4-5 different affix-combinations
but atleast 2 would be nice
cobalt gyro
Ya, shows they at least run somewhat consistently
marble hemlock
(and havnet been boosted :>)
since rio boosts are generally done in a package within the same week 😄
lost horizon
I guess if their entire board is same week that's a bit sketchy
marble hemlock
well, it makes me question how much they play outside of those weeks and how theyre able to handle difficult affix combinations
lost horizon
My argument is that most of the time you won't push for an upgrade if you've already done that dungeon on an objectively easier week
marble hemlock
well
lost horizon
Unless some other factor has changed
marble hemlock
thats as much reason for me to decline them
lost horizon
Between then and now
marble hemlock
i dont wnana play with people who only play for score
cobalt gyro
my group had 4 KR 22's simultaneously
marble hemlock
thats the worst kind of players honestly
marble hemlock
people who only play to get score
cobalt gyro
or we were done for the week
lost horizon
My goal with my group is to push for higher keys, which is the driving point for score
marble hemlock
i wanna play with people who enjyo pushing keys in general, no matter the week, no matter whether its an upgrade or not
lost horizon
If someone's got a low key we'll try to get em a higher one
cobalt gyro
agreed
marble hemlock
people who still give it their best despite it not being a score upgrade
cobalt gyro
somethin people gotta realize at lower levels
marble hemlock
but plenty of people just dont give a shit about whether they time a key or not if its not an upgrade
and that leads to worse gameplay
cobalt gyro
you run whatever, you time it, fail another key, re-roll it to something else
get something easy as fuck like a tol or FH
+2 it
then gain 200 score
marble hemlock
that just makes for very unenjoyable experiences
lost horizon
Idk, for me when I run with my consistent group
We try to push our keys to dungeons that are upgrades
I don't think that's abnormal
cobalt gyro
indeed
bleak spoke
i don't udnerstand why people play like shit when it's not "score" for them or whatever
cobalt gyro
once you're at the +20 range or so, some dungeons become undoable that week
marble hemlock
oh definitely
lost horizon
I don't really pug for score
cobalt gyro
but if it's all you got, you gotta run it
bleak spoke
like how do you even get better in that case
marble hemlock
but youll burn yourself out if you only play keys that are upgrades
cobalt gyro
see: 22+ KR's on tyrannical
lost horizon
Yeah, I mean I'm only 2500
marble hemlock
you need some more "relaxing" keys in between push-hours
or people will start tilting
if you deplete 4 potential upgrades back to back
(which is absolutely normal)
then people may not handle it too well
if you deplete 2, time some lower keys to get more tries for upgrades, and then deplete another 2
that evening of pushing just feels different
bleak spoke
i'm glad my team got past the first night we just depleted everything 
lost horizon
I don't really tilt if it's with my group tbh
bleak spoke
^
marble hemlock
ye
marble hemlock
people generally dont talk about what to improve when they time a run#
lost horizon
If something that's a potential upgrade gets depleted, we just run another key until we're out of good shit
Then run the crappy stuff to hopefully get redemption keys
marble hemlock
ye idk, i dont like that approach very much
cobalt gyro
was it just shit rng? (happens sometimes), did we play bad? etc
marble hemlock
cause then, after inevitably deleting everything, youre left with shitty keys no one has any drive to play
but obviously everyone is different 😉
or rather, every group is different
lost horizon
Had 2 ML 20s on that teeming volc Tyr week
marble hemlock
im not even used to playing in the same group all the time
lost horizon
Did the first one and couldn't chest despite no deaths or big fuck ups
cobalt gyro
I've been trying to run with the same group but, tbh at this point it's pretty hard
#ally problems
bleak spoke
yeh we keep losing our 5th person
marble hemlock
i actually heavily dislike running with the same group
part of what made highkey pushing in legion s o great, was that everyone was playing with everyone else
nowadays everyone is in their own group, maybe exchanging one player if someones not there
but it feels much more disconnected
😦
cobalt gyro
yeah, feels like a community
marble hemlock
its mostly due to how the design of dungeons/m+ in general has changed
drifting cloud
farm some wqs instead for that neck lvl seli 
drifting cloud
48 or bust
marble hemlock
would be too easy if i had 48
marble hemlock
ye
handicap myself
in any case, i really miss pugging within the "highkey" community
needed a monk+boomy? just take one of the 3-4 options you had, literally didnt matter which one
tired shell
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste is that valid for echoing build mythic +?
tired shell
i only have 2 😦
lone junco
yay for timewalk season.
marble hemlock
but the difference is fairly minor
lost horizon
I'm alliance side too, idk I much prefer consistent group cause you get to work around people and figure out what works
marble hemlock
so jsut get like 33-35% crit, ~30% mastery, and then split the rest between vers/mastery
fathom viper
that image makes me uncomfortable
lone junco
ok
cobalt gyro
@lost horizon it gets quite hard since there's much less pugs to be had
in terms of numerical amount
marble hemlock
anyway, time to sleep. make sure to make fun of every outlaw-colored doomsayer coming in here to inquire about assa stuff just because of the outlaw-nerf announcement 😉
lone junco
normally run sephuz over belt. but healers tend to be shit.
drifting cloud
thank god I never have to do tws again
lone junco
hoping to see soul cap pop during a belt window on a boss.
meh. 4p20+ss makes for some lolzy shit.
drifting cloud
I did over a thousand of them in wod
now dont even have to do the weekly for the bonus roll since its removed
its a blessing honestly
lone junco
i did them weekly for the bug mount.
now im just bored. and hoping for a socket tf something
drifting cloud
bug mount? you mean the drake
drifting cloud
oh the mop reps
lone junco
I dont do asthetic things. yeah just for the water walker
lost horizon
I don't really pug for that reason @cobalt gyro
Takes forever to fill
Cause of how dead ally side is
drifting cloud
🤔
steep obsidian
i ran 3 deadshot and greenskins outlaw in timewalking this week the burst is pretty insane better then i could get with any sin set
strange python
Anyone here good with creating their own weakauras that I could pm in search of some help
lost horizon
Probably better off just crowdsourcing, most people will lend a hand in open channels
Otherwise you can check out the weak aura discord
steep obsidian
im pretty sure there is a weak auras discord
at least there used to be years ago
they were helpful last time i went there
if you have no luck with someone helping here
lost horizon
Yeah, as I mentioned it's still around
steep obsidian
oh reading i shard
lost horizon
Damn ouch
steep obsidian
well 350 dh
lost horizon
Official WeakAuras Help Server
Invite link: https://discord.gg/wa2
@strange python
lone junco
@steep obsidian DS greenskin is good but doesnt beat my janky setup
steep obsidian
i hadnt even min maxed it like if i cared id farm old tier and shit again and get like the items with a billion sockets
it just seemed op
lone junco
i tried Greens + insig
steep obsidian
and i ended up tanking everything
lone junco
with 1 wits. 3ds.
lone junco
def lazy easy
lone junco
yeah. the 4p20 + 2ss is gross.
ive got it memed pretty well
actually made a guildy sad last time I ran with him "why am I even here"
which made me happy
civic palm
Image not PMing me for WA help O _O, at least before sending them to that discord O _O
lone junco
I still meme with moonglaives.
steep obsidian
i know you are nice miz
but i dunno i dont seen random people to others 😛
i feel if you want to help youd reply
lone junco
work for free nerd!?!z
steep obsidian
was just curious
tawdry rune
Is echo blades still a thing?
civic palm
Yes
midnight flower
its solid still
tawdry rune
How do I get it)
rose perch
it's an Azerite Trait, Rastakhan and Conclave drop good pieces with it for M+
lone junco
I regret everything.
tawdry rune
Ty
solar bramble
curious what traits some people are using for raid. since m+ is all echoing blades/SS and one nothing personal. . . . is their enough AoE to justify that same setup in raid?
unkempt phoenix
check warcraftlogs assassination only logs, it shows the triats they use
brisk forge
dont use NP in m+ tho
cobalt gyro
*unless your option is worse
prime quail
Or You top broke to Switch Sets between raid and m+ 😅
shy axle
@solar bramble mostly 3x double dose , 1-3 NOthing Personal, TC or tkf
slim solstice
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
hollow stone
@lone junco up to your usual tw shenanigans?
Lol as i scroll up and see you link a log
Attaboy
candid jasper
I'm seeing really good results from the mekkatorque trinket actually
didn't think it would be that good
south lagoon
mekka trink is very good
it just depends on your playstyle
if you dont wanna use it then dont
it just depends on how you want to play
rigid mango
Does anyone know their TC uptime on jaina kills?
steep obsidian
you can check some logs on warcraftlogs there
to find out exact answers to your question
im guessing its gonna vary
solar bramble
@south lagoon which sim for the bosses though. hectic add cleave. add fight. etc. for ST i'd assume as many double dose as possible, 1 NP, and other traits. . . . I'd even consider Shrouded Suffocation for stuff like stormwall, jadefire, etc. When i can apply the double shrouded garrotes.
rigid mango
3DD is pretty standard for near every raid encounter
Atleast 1 NP is more or less a must
south lagoon
you want 1x NP 1xSS for every boss
rigid mango
the last 2 spots can be filled with SS, NP, TC, BBI, TTK
You don't "want" an ss
for each boss
SS is a flavour choice at that point
solar bramble
i personally like at least 1 shrouded. just because i like it's cp generation and acceptable daamge
south lagoon
on mekka i did no SS and MA
rigid mango
but there's not a want for it for bosses
solar bramble
i like to keep 1 ss 1 np regardless
rigid mango
I play no ss ma on every boss now, cba swapping
south lagoon
first boss is ST with SS
second boss is the same
third the same
opulence is a weird boss
it depends on your raid team
solar bramble
ST SS would excell on a burn fight i'm assuming. with DD taking over the longer it lasts
south lagoon
SS is better than DD if you can do more than 1 target
solar bramble
SS + drums is godly
south lagoon
like on grong
south lagoon
Do SS
rigid mango
SS is a flavour thing
south lagoon
cause you have adds
rigid mango
I don't think you need ss on conc or anything after
rasta it's mostly pad dps
not useful if you're progressing
solar bramble
adds definatley to me make ss more valuable. but it would depend on the spawn time of them, and how it lines up with vanish to use SS fully
south lagoon
to be honest i dont have a good conclave log cause i wasnt in the team for the kills
so i dont claim i do well that fight
rigid mango
and the last 3 all don't need SS, I wouldn't ever take SS on stormwall and probs not on jaina
south lagoon
but teh rest i have 99 parses
rigid mango
You have 99 parses on all bosses apart from conc? or the ones you mentioned?
south lagoon
just conc
apart from conc
i think i have 99 on everthing else
but i stopped raiding on mekka
solar bramble
if it's that close, then i'll aim for SS. if only for simplicity of transitioning some gear to m+.
tropic ocean
I guess it heavily depends on boss
solar bramble
while i still have limited access to azerite armor, the more versatile i can make it the better
tropic ocean
since the other dmg doesnt really matter at all
rigid mango
?'
rigid mango
aye
solar bramble
no ss . . . makes MA more valuable i'm assuming
solar bramble
ma is also much easier to play lol
solar bramble
well atm i don't have much choice on traits
my current 385's are worse than my 370's sim wise just because of the trait differences being so extreme
rigid mango
Aye well if you're at that point
tropic ocean
as seen from logs most use any combination of 2,3 dd, ttk/bbi/np
solar bramble
i think i use only one 385 because the traits of the others are horrid
rigid mango
It doesn't matter that mych tbh
If you're only doing normal stuff etc
You don't really have to worry that much about all this stuff yet
solar bramble
ya currently i'm equipped with 3 shrouded, 1 np, 1 echoing, and 1 genaric . . . i forget which
tropic ocean
should be pretty set
solar bramble
it's what simmed highest for me both ST and AoE lol
tropic ocean
I was using 3x ss with subterfuge when we cleared hc
so u dont really need to worry about having the bis traits unless u go for mythic clearing
rigid mango
Aye I was using that too
solar bramble
ya not planning to go for mythic clearing lol
rigid mango
Traits don't truly matter until mythic
tropic ocean
and even in mythic
rigid mango
aus what did you run for jaina?
solar bramble
but the guild i'm in i'm also not expecting to pull a ton of weight per person, so bringing what i can
rigid mango
Myeh fair point
tropic ocean
p1 p2 dmg is basically irrelevant
we dps stop for 3rd barrel cuz we have so much dps
solar bramble
so it's all burn strats on jaina for the last phase?
tropic ocean
yeah
rigid mango
yeah
tropic ocean
u just kick add and burn jaina
solar bramble
what are the core strats in heroic boss by boss if you have the time. I'm just starting BoD and going into heroic later thsi evening
solar bramble
would like to be as little ignorant as i can . . . though i'll need to see them to truely know
rigid mango
Watch fatboss
tropic ocean
heavily depends on your group
rigid mango
if you want to know that stuff
tropic ocean
if you progress its way different than if you just farm
e.g. in hc boost runs we just ignore most of mechanics and burn
solar bramble
ik some strats change over time from when those guides are made. so i wasn't sure what the current are
solar bramble
ya but Aus, you probably have far more experienced pl ayers that are likely to know their rotations + mechanics . . . . i'm not expeccting this group to have their damage that high
tropic ocean
while in progress hc u need to play mechanics properly I suppose
rigid mango
Aye
solar bramble
will do
rigid mango
They'll tell you all you need to know
solar bramble
but ya i'm playing with people that i out dps when their 20 ilvls over me
so i'm not really expecting high execution
solar bramble
i pull about 14-16k at 385
tropic ocean
if you're the strongest in the room you're in the wrong room my man
south lagoon
are you doing heroic prog @solar bramble
solar bramble
ya heroic
i haven't been in there yet. but i trust my ability to adapt to a fight. but still would rather not be fully ignorant. so i'll watch th em
south lagoon
being a top parser isnt about being good at the class
its about adapting to a fight
solar bramble
lol aus. i'm not in the guild because i'm trying to pass heroic jaina or mythic. just a couple people i enjoy playing with. even if the others don't execute highly
rigid mango
I did that
for a long time
but after a while I couldn't do it anymore, guess I'm too competitive
Still relativly new to mythic etc
solar bramble
lol i get competative for certain. but i've just got too much to do for committing to a full mythic guild
south lagoon
being competitive will push you to the next tier
rigid mango
Still great friends with the people from my old guild
solar bramble
m+ keys with 5 is enough to sate my more competative side of th ings
for the time being at least
south lagoon
i quit raiding a couple months ago too
but i just do M+
thats my competitive drive
south lagoon
but all my peeps are 99 parsers in raid
solar bramble
i have a couple people i play with currently that have the potential to reach higher keys. and enough drive to do it. we'll find a couple others along the way
solar bramble
outlaw . . . idk . . . i just don't like the spec enough to truely practice it's burst window on AoE
south lagoon
and when to use cds
solar bramble
reading paths is the easiest part. that's what MDT is for
solar bramble
i have mine generally down
sometimes i'll lose one or two if i don't know the other dps output
south lagoon
like you gotta have vendetta down to a fucking mint
solar bramble
since i'll be more cautious
solar bramble
i use it on big pulls that are far enough away from a boss
south lagoon
but you need it up all the time
solar bramble
blade furry i wont use if i have a single energy regen buff and need to reroll
i try to save it for when i at least have a decent buff
south lagoon
nah
solar bramble
so i don't outright waste it
south lagoon
just use blade flurry
even if you have a shit roll
im not the best outlaw
but someone here will let you know
solar bramble
well . . . . even if i do that . . . i'll hold it at like 15% or 35% or so if the pull is about to pop reaping
meh i'd read outlaw questions for that one lol
solar bramble
a bit off topic for this
solar bramble
lol
solar bramble
either way i've been up to long and will need a nap. . . . got a couple runs before raid tonight to find a 2nd dagger
south lagoon
take practice to learn
everyone memes
"oh rogue is easy"
but they dont play rogues
solar bramble
ST i find it extremely easy. AoE is a little annoying while also managing interrupts. since tab targettign to spread dots makes it harder. I need to practice setting a focus target and use focus target kick macro's
the hardest part i find about rogues is knowledge of when to use utility. the rotation (ST at least) is rather straightforward
but i may also be playing it very very wrong so who knows lol
lets see what my sim is relative to my actual dmg on a dummy. if it's clsoe or not
south lagoon
@solar bramble https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/frostmourne/rivkaah#partition=1 if you want my traits and stuff
click 8.1
fallen bay
Just make mousover kick macro
solar bramble
i would if i could reliably click a target for mouseover quickly enough
i don't always see their bar and get th rough that many bars fast enough. especially on larget pulls
fallen bay
Do you use nameplate like fade if nothing happening and highlight when casting etc?
solar bramble
3-4 i could probably do it without terrible difficulty. but more than that, and i'll likely not react fast enough
i don't . . . didn't know you could do that lol. I just have nameplates all up
fallen bay
I. Mean you can set 100 % alpha for target and others can be below that
south lagoon
i dont use elvui sorry
solar bramble
elvui is what i have. i'll mess around with that though
south lagoon
so cant help
fallen bay
You can also. Make style filters
south lagoon
but its all fairly straight forwards
fallen bay
In elvui for casting npc I guess
solar bramble
i like the thought of using a focus macro. for now at least while i learn. . . maybe put a macro to set a target as focus, and mark it. so the group i'm with knows what i'm plannning to keep interrupted
and adjust later
over time
south lagoon
the best advice i can give
its
use focus for tricks
and mouse over for literally everything else
fallen bay
I don't use macro, but that is preference I guess I used to main dh since legion pre-patch so I guess I got quick reflexes, but if it helps you use macros
solar bramble
it'll take some getting used to. but if it's that effective i'll practice it
well mouseover interrupt would be a macro
for dh i w ouldn't be as concerned about interrupting at all
fallen bay
Yeah, but that simple, cannot be by myself considered a real macro like the complex ones 😂
south lagoon
@fallen bay you gotta use macros man for rupture, and blind, and like this week you gotta have mouseover envenom for explosive
solar bramble
it's the constant tab targettign i need tto do for maintaining rupture spread that complicates interrupts
if it wasn't for that i wouldn't be worried
fallen bay
I got pre-made group for m+ where dh is one shooting explosive, so that is not a big problem for me
south lagoon
@solar bramble thats why sin needs macros
solar bramble
ya, my tank deals with explosive in my group. i don't like doing it on assassination except once every 25 seconds when TB is up
south lagoon
to easily apply poisons
fallen bay
And for rupture I just use scan target and spamming it and checking nameplates when it goes out
south lagoon
this week is all about mouse over envenoms and mutialites tho
no garrotes on explosives
no ruptures
solar bramble
i can generally keep up with ruptures and getting them out. it's getting back to the interrupt target quickly enough. when he already has a garrote/rupture usually. I can easily lose a gcd or two just getting the interrupt off and rotating back. . . . it's entirely about managing the innterrupts for me. my WA track my ruptures duration and pandemics for simplicity
which is what i need to adapt to
garrote/rupture is worthless on explosive which is kinda why i don't like sin this week. outlaw's cheap ass can blade flurry off the explosive
fallen bay
If you solo pushing that is issue
south lagoon
@solar bramble you need to make a kick maco
a mouse over kick
so you dont have to target it
and focus something else
just kick your mouseover
fallen bay
But if you have pre-made like me and tank calling every kick in group, it's easier
solar bramble
2 people 2 answers. one says a mouseover kick macro. the other says i shouldn't be interrupting at all, and should let the group do it (only thing i can get from "if your solo pushing that's the issue" as an answer to re targetting an interrupt target)
solar bramble
shadow, it doesn't matter if the tank calls the kick target. it's getting back to the target to kick and not lose a gcd that i'm adapting to
south lagoon
@fallen bay i have my tank call every kick too
but macros make it easier to kcik
while focus targeting something
solar bramble
i know exactly what and who i'm interrupting or stunning. it's reaching that target through all the tab targetting to spread dots
on dh, or outlaw, or sub. that's never an issue for me one bit
just the constant bleed spread
fallen bay
You playing with overlapping or stacking nameplates?
solar bramble
stacking
south lagoon
@solar bramble im gonna copy my mouse over to you, i promise once you get used to it
solar bramble
but my reaction time to see the cast out of 10+ mobs
south lagoon
you will wnat it on every spell
fallen bay
Well then it shouldn't be that big issue if it is marked already
solar bramble
hmm you mean /cast [@mouseover] kick
macros i'm comfortable making. i just will need to practice and get used to that one
south lagoon
#showtooltip Kick
/cast [@mouseover,exists] Kick; Kick
obv change it to the spell you want
but its addictitng
solar bramble
and take shadows advice earlier with the fading of nameplates when not casting
hmm? oh ik macro's well . . my druid has every skill on his bar as a mcro
solar bramble
from cnacel auras, to cancel macro during aura, to shape shift if not in x form. to use skill if in x form etc. etc.
south lagoon
kui name plates you can change mouse over colour
but get the macro and tou can kick without evenh targeting
solar bramble
i'll try that
i'll definately mess up for a bit. but learning it in the long run will be good
south lagoon
get a kick weak aura too 😄
solar bramble
i'll start out on some lower keys when it's not detrimental
south lagoon
so you can track what you group has kicked
solar bramble
i have the interrupt aura, as well as full skill tracking for all major cd's in addition to my normal WA's
south lagoon
aite thats good
just mouse over kicks
and tou will acutuallt be the best in your group
solar bramble
ya. i'll mess with nameplates and adjust that
solar bramble
i can learn h ow to use the mouseover kick. i'll just need to adjsut my nameplates so i can clearly distinguish in large pulls
solar bramble
is there a way to set specific colors for specific mobs. or is that well beyound it's boundries . . . would be pretty extensive
i'm doubting it
south lagoon
theres nothing beyong boundaries
solar bramble
figured. but ya i'll experiment with that
wont be for a couple days. as today i'm relatively busy, and it'll take a little bit to fully experiment and see what works for me
south lagoon
you just gotta experirement
find your own ui
everyone has their own ui
all different
solar bramble
I like my ui. my skill bar doesn't even show up lol. only the important things.
though i'll make nameplate adjustments
south lagoon
yeah i like me own ui too
solar bramble
to deal with that mouseover kick
solar bramble
mine is good for all but my healer lol
south lagoon
biggest thing ever
solar bramble
ik mouseover healing but not mouseover kicks. since nameplates keep moving
solar bramble
will do
south lagoon
@sudden brook should he learn mouseovers?
solar bramble
in kui. can you set a color for what your mousing over, one for yoru current target, and one for all others?
south lagoon
yeah you can
solid nova
You can move the generics to #wow-general at this point
south lagoon
my mouseover is purple
@solid nova makes a good point
we are talking about wow generals
solar bramble
he does. but idk . . . i never check general since i don't expect much of it there to be as relevent even if it is
either way ty . . . i got enough to work on for the time being. and had best go get some stuff dones
solar bramble
i've checked them for rotations, talents, builds etc. but not for general ui's. streamers I only watch occasionally. . . . used to watch a fair bit of trellsky when i was playing my brewmaste roften. but haven't watched many rogues
but ya this is getting more general conversationally as richard has pointed out. . . . so ima head out for now . . . ty
lone junco
@hollow stone yeah. I enjoy TW with a guild tank. Speed is important. And q time is brutal.
hexed sail
Not using mouse over on nameplates, since they keep moving. It's fancy but dangerous imo. Plus, feels bas comparée to regular target switch. I use target last target Shortcut, available in défaut settings. I'm shocked how few people use this, as it solves so many issues related to the targets area. Mouse over is more of a niche to me, like tos 1st boss, and should stay that way to me. Try target last target guys. Insane.
tranquil silo
wait you can change the colors of nameplates with ? like target / mouseover / everything else different colors? how?
echo night
So how big is the nerf to Wits ?
solar bramble
@hexed sail for raids i don't have any issue with this. i can reach targets pretty easy. but I find it too slow in m+ on large pulls to try tabbing and such through that many targets when at least 2-3 have priority interrupts
solar bramble
but ya i'm curious about m+ last talent. is CT really that bad atm? i'm simming 800 dps lower on CT than Poison bomb witht he d ungeon sim. . . . it is because you end up with more consistent energy regen when you aren't adding in CT allowing for a more fluid rotation?
would assume CT is higher because of reaping
tropic ocean
3-4% is pretty good for a t3 trait
solar bramble
i have one echoing blades atm
tropic ocean
@solar bramble dungeon slice is not the best to sim for m+
patchwerk 6 bosses 40s is something that comes pretty close
dungeonslice factores in too much small pulls and stuff that you actually dont do
solar bramble
and what's the best to sim reaping?
drifting cosmos
I thought CT doesn't refund energy
solar bramble
my thing with the with 6 boss 40s one that came to mind. was it considers you have major cooldowns (2 minutes included) for each pull
CT doesn't. but you don't need the energy from it when you have so many ruptures out
tropic ocean
if you want just the reaping dmg I guess 10 bosses 20sec beastlord sim
since u cant put > 10 targets
drifting cosmos
Also I heard with enough Eb, fok just does more DMG than CT
solar bramble
;ya, and if CT isn't in the rotation you have more opportunity to maintain ruptures and never have to press another button but those 2
tropic ocean
@drifting cosmos this doesnt really matter since u still need a spender to keep eb up
elaborate planning*
so u wont be just spamming fok
solar bramble
since it does take one gcd every 3rd or 4th rupture you use
tropic ocean
cuz it is a higher dmg spender than envenom or rupture?
drifting cosmos
Use ttk for priority dmg
CT just feels like padding if you talking about reaping
solar bramble
i can see spamming FoK without CT just because you have an extra rupture or two. but CT in that time
tropic ocean
ct is a really good choice dps-wise so if you like it go ahead and use it
solar bramble
i'm talking the entire dungeon. but reaping to me feels like it would push CT over poison bomb. mobs at least in the runs i had, live long enough for the full CT
or most of it at least
that i can agree with. but it's still going to have higher ST than outlaw without poison bomb . . . . which really doesn't seem like it does much on bosses (more than CT for sure, but still not much)
and fck the rng of outlaw lol. can't stand that
tropic ocean
depends on your group though
if you pull reaping with boss, ct gains a lot of value
solar bramble
it';s dangerous vitalize. but if your group can manage it it's better
drifting cosmos
Not really, outlul is pretty strong atm I think their st is much better than before
tropic ocean
gaining prio dmg is not the only reason to pull reaping into boss
its also a time saver
lol
solar bramble
it's not just padding vitalize. if the damage is all used, and it's not wasted then it's still good. if it's not needed damage then ya it's padding. . . . . but CT as a DoT isn't going to waste it's damage
you also don't waste time just killing a reaping wave
the CT damage and FoK dmg does still damage the boss and the reaping at the same time. so it's not just padding
to me padding = damage that is wasted and un needed but boosts numbers arbitrarily
tropic ocean
ct is just on demand aoe
if u pull reaping with boss and using ct u will basically just ct once
and then fok/ruptures and envenom spam boss
and ct again when its running out ( if reaping is still alive then)
wat
yeah you want reaping to die as fast a possible
??
solar bramble
if 5-6 mobs are left alive then i'd focus the boss. if it's like 15 or so then i'd help kill the trash so the tank/healer doesn't have a lot of work
but if the dmg isn't an issue then ya prio the boss
strange python
People arent really using trash in m+ as the adds was used on Zul for sub rogues.
tropic ocean
the biggest reason to pull trash or reaping into boss is not the single target gain
strange python
Its just that people drag em onto the boss to hit 2 flies with 1 bomb.
tropic ocean
but the time saving capability
solar bramble
the only way sin can use adds on a boss is more CP through crit. or splash damage onto the boss while your killing the reaping you have to kill anyway. . . that's how i see it
solar bramble
you need to kill the reaping either way. why not add some damage to the boss at the same time with the AoE splashj
tropic ocean
they pull it cause doing 150k dps over duration x is superior to doing 40k dps over duration x
solar bramble
i don't see any reason why not
tropic ocean
simple as that
its not like they gain tremendous amounts of st
they just gain time by cleaving constantly
while doing boss
solar bramble
they don't. they just cleave additional damage
they use their normal AoE that they would use on the trash. but hit the boss with it as well
tropic ocean
I mean theres a reason they are using dk 😄
strange python
ofc they gain more ST damage by bringing the adds there aswell. But doubt thats the main purpose of it, more so the time saver.
solar bramble
unholy sucks on ST. but man is their AoE potent
solar bramble
i personally like pulling reaping onto a boss . . . . feels like i'm wasting less time
solar bramble
does fort increase reaping damage output?
tropic ocean
no but the mobs have less hp
I also pulled pack into boss today but need to communicate it very good with vortex/binding shot or stuff
so u can pull boss to not get bolstered
subtle drift
Hey, i'm currently outlaw but i want to try Assa, is 2 EB enough for m+ or do i need 3?
real bay
even 1 EB is fine, depends on ur group
distant lava
what are those numbers
turbid zealot
subtle drift
Yeah, i do have that
rigid mango
I think ttk/eb ss/bbi and ss/eb is probably ur best option
subtle drift
https://i.imgur.com/9rBsd3B.png Head https://i.imgur.com/5F8Or6I.png chest https://i.imgur.com/wmrOnlQ.png Shoulder
Damn, i guess i did shoulders twice
subtle drift
Azerit Power Weights
rigid mango
lul
never seen those bfore I think
generally, ss/eb/ttk and a bbi is the best you can go
I'm running 3ss 1 ttk eb bbi atm, which is super neat, if you want even more prio dmg u go for more ttk, if you want more outright aoe etc you go eb etc
subtle drift
i want to switch for more ST DPS but also have decent AOE
rigid mango
Then you'd want to look into what I'm running ish
subtle drift
Seems good
rigid mango
SS gives decent ST, whilst also giving 3 target amazing damage, bbi is always good, ttk is also good for ST but also prio dmg
lost sentinel
I finally got an appropriate 415 chest piece. So now I am running 3eb, 1ttk, 1ss, 1 sob
lost sentinel
now I'll keep buying shoulders to replace the SOB, but also needed for ST
rigid mango
Gorak's 
lost sentinel
yeah, still the best piece I got for that slot
I bought 2 shoulders so far and they were both the same piece with eb + sob
subtle drift
i could have 2 EB 2 SS 1 TTK 1 NP at once
subtle drift
Yeah
lost sentinel
I can take that trait that gives haste and refreshes on kill, instead of SOB, not sure how good it is though
subtle drift
And SS instead of DD?
rigid mango
yeah
so
dd is garbo for m+¨
It's really good for raiding
I assume this is all for m+ atleast
lost sentinel
I wonder how much next season will change optimal builds once reaping is gone
rigid mango
since you nearly always fan of knives with EB traits, you lose a ton of value of DD
lost sentinel
I kinda want them to make reaping a recurring thing lol
rigid mango
Since the general consensus of using FoK is at 2+ targets with EB, and 4-5+ with DD
Yeah, reap is awesome
hope we get something that's equally hood
good*
so dd and np aren't regularly taken for m+
there are better traits that can give you better stuff for trash whilst always having value on ST
fallen bay
They want more st in m+, guess season 3 affix will be something like harjatan npc spawning every 30% with boss HP and unique mechanics
subtle drift
I got 405 and 400 Weapon on Outlaw (400 is jaina, with ring, so i got the set) and 2 400 daggers
Do you think i can outDPS Outlaw?
lost sentinel
if it focuses more on st, prob a good thing to change it up more