Yeah jaina is fun, until you realize there is soooooo much rng to the fight
#assassination
spice surge
fresh robin
lmao
royal lantern
and people still fail p1 sooo......
final stone
when i get to there im sure i will too haha @royal lantern
dude p1 fails are so baaad!!
royal lantern
intermission is shit too
the orb hitbox is wonky as hell
happens so many times
final stone
we are still trying to get intermission down
marble hemlock
well
servers are lagging, at least for me
playing assa with 250world ms
is fun
fresh robin
thanks again for helping me out... i just looked at my 9% mekka parse on our kill
the other rogues NP traits did 1.1 mil dmg in our guild, mine werent even on my meters
unreal
rigid mango
Aye did it, thanks
Does mekka trink sim lower than it actually performs?
feels as if I shouldn't lose 600 dmg from a 415 version of it compared to my 420 ML trink
final stone
i have a meka trinket 415 with a socket. sims better than every other trinket too its pretty aids since you can only use it on opener if your lucky and it times just right lol
my current set up
fleet whale
at least it's better than G'huun's trinket!
spice surge
Mekka trinket isnt that good because it never consistently lines up with anything
lunar tangle
it lines up with toxic blade
spice surge
Its a decent stat stack, but not worth more than say, spyglass or dice
Not really, tb has 25s cd and this has 32
Sure, sometimes it lines up
solar rose
heck that trinket
slender urchin
Hi guys...I've been playing a Ret Pally most of this expac, but I recently rerolled to a Sin Rogue. I've caught up gear-wise (409 ilevel), but my Rogue still sims almost 2k less than my Paladin. Was hoping someone could take a look and see if there's any glaring hole in my gear, specs, or traits. I'm a frequent simmer...I follow my stat weights closely. Just trying to maximize my damage potential for mythic prog. Thanks!
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/us/proudmoore/vicewind
spice surge
You have two quick navigation, mediocre chest/shoulders and fairly bad rings since they dont have a socket
Most of your gear is okay, but nothing spectacular
slender urchin
I simmed two masterful nav at a small loss of DPS.
lost horizon
You need to have 2 different enchants
It's only worth stacking the same enchant on both if that particular stat is valued like insanely higher than any other
Not something you'll really ever see tbh
spice surge
Not even shadowpriets have those weights so
lost horizon
Just sim stat weights and pick your 2 top, or even better do a sim with all the different wep enchant combos
Via top gear on raidbots to make it easy
@spice surge even mastery on old Zul build for sub wasn't there 🤷
spice surge
Ye exactly
Im actually running crit+mastery now, too much baseline haste and 3x op 😄
lost horizon
Might have been with this ilvl but nope
My haste is hella low, I think quick+masterful is an upgrade for me but I use the same dagger for outlaw
So I just keep it crit
slender urchin
Oh, I didn't know that it was worth it to have two different enchants. Awesome.
spice surge
There is heavy diminishing returns on having the same enchants
rigid mango
You running crit/mast for raid?
nimble tartan
haste/mastery sims like 40 dps higher but ya boy is critgodx
im tryna crit every envenom brother
slender urchin
Wow...yeah 1.2% dps gain. Thanks, that was a huge tip!
nimble tartan
gamers rise up!
round harbor
How can we rise up when we are oppressed
bleak spoke
1% of players have 45% of the io score in the game, this is unequal, this is unfair
we must rise up
delicate rivet
damn @final stone that sim rofl, make a ele shaman and at ilvl 400 ish it will sim around the same hehe
spice surge
Most fights are 95%+
stuck knoll
final stone
@delicate rivet yeah my sims no bueno next to one haha
atomic willow
yea check out Incarnated
grim canopy
thanks
strange python
what traits this week for atal?
marble hemlock
triple footpad, so you have even more movespeed with sprint to run out of the dungeon and not come back before next weeks affixes
strange python
LOL
marble hemlock
id still play ttk
unless youre on orb duty
just do exsang/pb with ss+eb traits then to envenom orbs
and still do decent aoe/prio/st thanks to ss
marble hemlock
😄
marble hemlock
😦
strange python
dw wasnt my key
heavy haven
for ST is there a trait/stat threshold that you take certain talents or should i just sim all the ones that hte guide shows as either/or
marble hemlock
just sim, its the most reliable thing you can do
for some MA is better even with multiple shrouded pieces, for others subter is better despite no SS
so simming is the only "surefire" way to get an answer thats tailored to your specific setup (or potential setups)
spice surge
@marble hemlock Triple footpad never worth
marble hemlock
sure is
spice surge
Speed diminishes too hard
marble hemlock
22% speed with triple footpad
spice surge
After second
civic palm
zoomzoom
spice surge
Yeah and 21% with 2
spice surge
😄
civic palm
ZOOMZOOMzoom
cobalt gyro
I mean, worth it if you run with slow classes
fleet whale
i feel like the range is so small that you outrun most classes anyway when using sprint
spice surge
Be a teamplayer and dont outrun them 😉
marble hemlock
footpad certainly helps on some of the shroudskips that are a little tighter
like atal, temple, siege
golden relic
tripple footpad for the flame on opulance 
so your r word raiders can run around faster
visual quartz
wow
heady raven
on 4 targets would it be worth running echoing blades over double dose on a chest?
(tanking adds on boss on champs)
marble hemlock
the 2 small adds die really quickly, and EB without a decent chunk of crit is kinda pointless, since youre mostly playing EB for the passive fok-damage increase then
which scales neither with haste, nor mastery, our preferred stats for singletarget
youd be better off running SS and garroting boss+the big add
cobalt gyro
you'd get pretty good value out of SS on champs if you're trying to pad like that
heady raven
Ye thats the plan lmao
too lazy to reforge champs helm to SS then back after champs though
scenic shale
how much energy do u usually pool before using toxic blades
plush remnant
Should you put bleeds on both bosses on conclave?
cobalt gyro
bleeds on the boss that heals is subtracted from your dps on wcl, so no, probably not
plush remnant
For energy
cobalt gyro
if you want to get extra nrg it'd be better to snipe ruptures on adds
plush remnant
kk thanks
mystic charm
Anyone know if cloak is busted on mythic jaina ? I was soaking hand of frost coming from avalanche in p2, and i got stacks from it, but no damage though.
mystic charm
True, but I think i got additional stacks from soaking them with cloak, added to the stacks i already had before
maybe i just fucked up somewhere hmm
cobalt gyro
no you're just not supposed to be able to ignore stacks entirely
at least onb mythic, the last set of nerfs made it on hc and lower you can drop them with cloak/immunities
spice surge
There is a spreadsheet on what abilities work against jaina mythic in #wow-general pins
Generally though, cloak prevents damage but not stacks and feint is useless on jaina
cobalt gyro
imagine wanting your damage reduction cd to work on a fight
spice surge
Imagine fire on the ground not being aoe 😄
But its not just jaina though, feint is pretty useless in all of BoD
torpid oar
is the new trinket from the raid going to be good, i used the sim but seemed it was beaten out by my dice and deadeye
spice surge
I dont think its implemented in simc yet
bleak spoke
Ayy
brittle lantern
!tb
am i insane or is there a bot command to yell TB O NCD
need it for a friend
bleak spoke
the 98 progress parse https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/yn4DYBqrK6wZQ7Rd/#fight=last&type=damage-done
supple hearth
@brittle lantern you would just macro it. those things have generally been frowned upon because they get annoying.
so if youre using it for a specific person u can make it
fleet whale
Just got done my first 15 and 16 for the expansion tonight... both on time
grizzled jay
Gratz dude. Better late than never 💪
lost horizon
@fleet whale nice! pain in the ass affixes (at least for NA) so good job dude
fleet whale
honestly i didn't mind the affixes too much, granted we had insane key rng
start with FH 13, plus 2 to AD, after that, 16 freehold...
and that key turned into a 17 freehold
also, i ran with a 2x SS, 2x EB set up. Other traits was TTK and incite the pack. Before i had to run a standard raid set up with just one SS
lost horizon
traits are really important for sin so that definitely helps
lost horizon
nice man, feels good to get those new personal records
M+ in bfa is actually pretty cool now with reaping
and with rogue being as good as it is right now, best time to get into it
fleet whale
Most rogues seem to go outlaw, but people sleep on assassination (at least if you don't plan to do MDI)
lost horizon
both have their place imo
sullen garden
What are best Sin traits for PvP?
visual quartz
I dont mind feint on grong tantrum and mekka smash down thing
tacit lance
Good morning lads,
Short question: how does cloak interact with the orb on stormwall? Will it prevent me from picking it up? Will using it make me drop it instantly?
royal lantern
allright, cant confirm it with 100% cus i didnt do the orb, the dh did it, but i THINK cloak will drop the orb and spawn the add cus you lose the debuff
but like i said, cant say if it is true
high siren
@bleak spoke nice ! did you get lucky about shrunk / orbs, or are you just insane? 😄
bleak spoke
gotta get decently lucky to parse well i think
soft island
Can anyone answer dumb question?
On herodamage in pins, the azerite trait SS is second with exa build. There is icon with ss exa and subterfuge talent.
Then there is ss without exa and subterfuge. Why can't I see ss with subterfuge and without exa?
Or am I blind?
soft island
Yeah but combination with toxic blade and subterfuge and ss is more common than ss without subter
Yet the first mentioned is not there
Just felt weird
bleak spoke
410 plumage we did ittttttt
bleak spoke
wait what is this mutilate rupture mutilate stuff i'm seeing on logs
this seems a little depleted
small island
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sd9j2xMdd8xXjmitDT3Fnb pretty decent for 412
obtuse cedar
7 sockets wow
strange python
Is there any way to see or to fix the traitbugg? Like 50% if the pulls we had last night, even after reequiping or relogging 1 of my taits on my chest did not work. It is a lot of damage to just lose a trait
spice surge
Reforging always fixes it
dark crag
"Sry guys need to reforge, port me back" a problem that should not exists
spice surge
🤷 basicly check the logs/damage meter
Well, as long as it does some damage it's working
It very rarely happens, most of the time it's after being dced
Well, that's prob him having more mastery/having a better on-use trinket
strange python
My rogue mate in the guild without TTK critted for between 64k-71k. I did more but almost same. So I was thinking... how can I crit the same with 1 TTK? I did the steps got it to work. Started critting for 88k-93k. Next pull...69k
So it just turns on and off sometimes?
strange python
No, so that is why I was between like 69k-77k. But the pull after I relogged I was allways between 83k-93k
And even so. With 1 TTK there is no way that for 25 pulls straight my mate had full mastery procs every time
I mean there is a way. But feels very unlikely
dark crag
On and off is unlikely
Maybe you got good crits and did more 5 cp envs instead of 4 cp ones
When i had the problem nothing worked, no dd, no np and no op procs
prime quail
So if you run mulitple SS traits and sub would you deffo run exs ?
strange python
why rip?
prime quail
guide says in raven its useless
since it doesnt stack
Nothing Personal: A great one point wonder as the energy regeneration portion does not stack with multiple traits.
prime quail
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/eJaedppo2WEEKPKrwdAXK7 rip my trinkets
cobalt gyro
It gives a massive amount of burst damage
strange python
Energy doesnt stack, damage does.
prime quail
alright i guess calling it a one point wonder is kinda weird
in addition of mentioning stuff that doesnt stack
cobalt gyro
The energy regen makes it quite strong at one stack
That doesn't stack when you add another, but, the damage does
prime quail
mhm ok ty hows it for you is 1 more SS trait most likely better than 2nd NP ?
strange python
It all depends on your gear, and what content you gonna do. What traits is best for you
Best way to check it out, is to sim yourself.
tropic ocean
with 1 ttk
cobalt gyro
What sims best for me might not necessarily sim best for you
tropic ocean
@strange python
without mastery/versa increase your same cp envenom will most likely do the same dmg, thats how u can check
e.g. my 5 cp tb vendetta venom always crit 90kish
with 1 ttk
cobalt gyro
But that being said, no, DD/np traits is what my sims told me to stack
spice surge
You dont have to reforge to sim
tropic ocean
i cant even bother to reforge for playing not think about for simming
genius who came up with non portable reforge-ability
prime quail
weird even that more stats trait for beeing over 50% wasnt better for you?
cobalt gyro
It wasn't, no
prime quail
like everywhere i go no matter what class they always recommend that trait
spice surge
TC is a decent trait but there are better options
Especially as you get better gear, since agi doesnt scale well
prime quail
true
swift timber
is eb always the way to go in m+ or is it just a lower key dps padding build?
cobalt gyro
Agi has been my worst stat tor awhile
you want as many SS and EB traits as you can get
SS is insane
tropic ocean
@swift timber it gets better the higher the key gets
for this week not the best choice tho
swift timber
so for something like this week I would just want SS + some random dmg traits?
tropic ocean
well i personally use 2x eb 1x ttk 3x ss
if i had different chest i'd use 2x ttk 3x ss 1x eb
generally prioritizing focus dmg over bad aoe
distant helm
Personally think TTK is realy good this week to even out the packs, so bolstering wont be a problem
swift timber
NP is considered a bad trait for m+ right
tropic ocean
well its a single target trait, while you spend most time aoeing
if u lack singletarget, it can be fine (in your group)
swift timber
yeah I suppose
thanks for the answers!
ah btw any streamers doing high m+ keys with assa to learn from?
most I could find were playing outlaw
swift timber
cheers
strange python
i feel its very hectic trying to keep rupture and garrote constantly up on 3 different targets without any debuff downtime, is this normal?
since garrote is on a cd
woven summit
Why keep it constantly?
just put 3 from stealth
and then take it slow
no need to feel hectic about it
strange python
i just assumed 100% uptime is vital to my dps overtime
bronze kelp
garrote only out of stealth
you need 4 bleeds running for a good constant energy reg
on aoe
and to keep track of that, there are various WAs or good nameplates where you can configure that
and if you really want to keep up both bleeds on 3 targets, train it on dummies ^^
torpid oar
how come i see more assassination rogues use master assassin on the later bosses on mythic, is it better than subterfuge on single target?
cobalt gyro
can be
bronze kelp
depends on your traits
strange python
how important is it to get in envenoms inbetween everything during aoe?
bronze kelp
with 3DP/3NP its better in most cases
if you got your 4 ruptures running feel free to use other finishers
you rupture not for dmg but for energy reg
if you rupture to many targets you start overcapping energy a lot
if you rupture not enough -> energy starvation
strange python
also when i come out of stealth to garrote targets, those 3 garrotes will pretty much fall off at the same time and there will be a big gap of garrote downtime on the 2 other ones where im waiting for garrote to come off cd to reapply, is waiting my only option or am i doing it wrong?
bronze kelp
you dont reapply garrote on all targets
only on your prio target
3 targets -> 3 ruptures, 1 garrote -> enough energy reg to fok -> envenom
strange python
oh.......
i thought i was supposed to constantly keep rupture and garrote up on 3 targets
bronze kelp
if you see yourself starving cause of whatever -> garrote another target. but there is no need to constantly have 3 garrotes on 3 targets
strange python
hm ok, what about 2 targets then?
bronze kelp
2 target you have both with rupture and garrote
cobalt gyro
you can garrote/rupt both
strange python
okok i get it then
cobalt gyro
but with 3, maintain garrote on the priority
bronze kelp
the base rule is to get 4 bleeds on targets
on 1 target you sure cant, but on 2 ? -> both with both bleeds
broken meteor
Hey guys, i've just come back to WoW after a pretty long break(WOTLK) and im smashing out the rogue just wondering if anyone could tell me what traits to get and if someone could explain the rotation. im having trouble understanding the sin guide on ravenholdt
vestal wren
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
vestal wren
there us also a rotation part on the page
broken meteor
So do you stack the highest trait?
vestal wren
depends on the situation
broken meteor
Raiding/pvp? 😃
vestal wren
stacking 3x ss is usually the "nothing can go wrong" choice
broken meteor
idm being mediocore in keys since i only do my +10 weekly so far
vestal wren
ss is super strong in m+ and is one of the strongest in raid
you can look at wcl at most used traits
broken meteor
Ah the ravenholdt guide didnt tell me the reason for going garrote>rupture>garrote but the WoWhead one does haha
Was so confused when it told me to do it
vestal wren
yes wowhead is more in detail
broken meteor
So after you vanish the first time with SS and vanish comes off CD
You do it again? 2x garrote?
languid ore
Yea
idle vigil
Ss is pretty shit in raiding
Dd np both much better options
Ss can be good on multi target fights because you can garrote from vanish on multi targets
But for pure st which is most of the latter half of the raid, MA without ss starts to shine
lament dove
yeah, when you actually crit with MA
the number of 4 CP envenoms after MA vanish+TB+mutilate is just too damn high
latent gazelle
4 is better then 3.
tropic ocean
@idle vigil are we still talking about bod?
cuz for majority of bosses ss is top choice 😄
cosmic pier
is there a maximum range for venomous wounds? is it both me dotting up the add before they swap boats?
on stormwall
spice surge
No there is no maximum range on your bleeds once they are applied
Although you will not keep getting energy for the entire bleed duration since deadly doesnt last as long
But yes, you should be refreshing your rupture and possibly garrote before they swap
broken meteor
So what traits would be best for casual raiding just heroic 😮
haughty lily
broken meteor
Haha
Sounds like a plan atm im running 2SS and 1 NP because its all ive got so far
languid ore
That's fine. A lot of top parses are with ss because you can just garrote multiple targets. Most of it is cheese though. You wanna do MA for actual progression tho
idle vigil
@tropic ocean ss is really not good past conclave
Look at pdots explanation for why top parses May have it
But for meaningful damage it falls behind other traits
broken meteor
None of my other azerite pieaces have DD or NP 😦 which is sad
I could probably get some low ilvl ones how low of an ilvl would you go under your higher geare just for traits?
latent gazelle
Depends how bad your traits are on your high level stuff and how much higher ilvl it actually is
lament dove
if you don't raid mythic you can just check herodamage.com and see a rank of traits (you can change the display from ST to dungeon etc.) and follow that without simming yourself, it's a good enough indication for heroic
broken meteor
Traits confuse me reee haha
broken meteor
So MA is the main goto talent for majority of things?
spice surge
For raid yes
broken meteor
unless you're running SS?
spice surge
yes
I wouldnt say SS is very good for stormwall, because typically when the add is remotely close to the boss it should be dead (or close to)
But yeah, if you dont have good ranged and the add always lives long then sure
broken meteor
<_< i just did an item recovery and got some items back so i can run 2xNP and 2xDD but the ilvl difference is around 25 of the chest and 15 for the helmet O_O
spice surge
idle vigil
It’s not good for rhastakhan
Add damage is meaningless
And stormwall you are never leaving single target as as a melle
But anyways sim yourself to decide
royal lantern
its true?
if you have problems killing the adds on rastakhan, you have BIG problems in your raidgroup
broken meteor
The ilvl difference with the different traits was only like 200dps between each other
tropic ocean
not having problems, but calling add dps meaningless is just meme
after intermission fight is basically tank spank
spice surge
It is fairly meaningless though? As long as you kill the big dude before the second jump
It doesnt matter how long it takes to kill the other two
tropic ocean
why would you not want to kill them as fast as possible :^)?
royal lantern
because that doesnt kill the boss faster?
spice surge
Because it reduces your damage to the big dude?
royal lantern
its great you have more dmg on the adds
but that means the ACTUALLY enemy that needs too die too get the kill takes less dmg
royal lantern
and best logs on rogues use outlaw with aoe talents
tropic ocean
speed
royal lantern
that means i need too play outlaw with aoe talents too get kills
lament dove
Rastakhan speedrun
worldly iron
if you want logs you pad
tropic ocean
"metric dmg done to boss"
worldly iron
oh, I only peeped it briefly on my phone
spice surge
On a fight such as rasta you can pad by dpsing rasta too
Just tunnel him in p1 and dont care about adds
But SS isnt bad on rasta
tropic ocean
you can this, you can that, but they didnt and majority of top boss dps assa rogues use ss traits on rasta fight so
telling different is just false information
golden relic
are you in love with the trait or why is this argument even happening
brisk forge
Well looking on top logs is kinda meh tho
tropic ocean
not sure liking/disliking something correlates with mispreading information
golden relic
did you stop to think that its his opinion speaking in a public forum like this
and since the option is open to use both
he may think its worse in his opinion
You have people in here talking shit about MA still when so many ppl use it , yet they are not wrong in what they say either becuz its partly useless if you dont get the crit. So someone saying SS is useless on X boss is perhaps there perception of it
Thats why we have a discord like this to keep things open for discussion, you are just as biased saying that its good cause most ppl use it on rasta when its clearly not needed for some people
royal lantern
nobody here ever said MA is ussusles
tropic ocean
how can I be biased on something when its based on accesible data
royal lantern
hell, i dont like MA cus im a unlucky fucker, but i still use it
tropic ocean
opinions can be biased, something that everyone can see and check is not
I mean, you can't deny logs no?
golden relic
you linked data, the rank 1 isnt using SS
tropic ocean
yeah
golden relic
and hes rank 1 , does that not prove
that you can do both
and still be around the top
tropic ocean
and what I wrote is "majority of top dmg boss log rogues use ss"
instead of "ss is not good on rastas"
so 1 statement is correct
while other is straight up wrong
golden relic
Yes, I know , but my point is still that the guy saying it was useless might aswell be someone who dislikes it
spice surge
No
royal lantern
things get heated in the SS vs MA fandom
spice surge
He said damage on adds is meaningless, which it is
You linking boss damage rankings doesnt change that
tropic ocean
ColleoToday at 4:30 PM
It’s not good for rhastakhan
Add damage is meaningless
if you can't make the transfer that when majority of top dpsing players use it for boss x, its not "not good" then Idk what to say
spice surge
Whats best for logs and whats best for killing the boss when progressing is different things
tropic ocean
I think if you answer a question to someone that actually seeks advice you should either phrase correctly or answer it correctly
golden relic
Someone saying that id assume they mean is that , some other X class can do more add damage without sacrificing a trait setup for that, and you as a rogue are put in for boss damage, hence the logic add damage is meaningless
so yes add damage is useless when you could be doing like 30% more boss damage then some classes as a rogue playing full ST
tropic ocean
I never denied that, yet ss is really still top tier for boss dmg on rastakhan fight
royal lantern
people say add dmg is ussules cus the adds should die without people hardfocus them anyway
golden relic
what logic is that though, all of those people clearly took those traits
not for the boss damage
but the fact that they can vanish garrote the totem, the adds
for overall dmg
tropic ocean
i'm not sure what you are trying to argue
tropic ocean
the majority of top boss dmg rogue logs, have dealth more dmg to boss with 3x ss to boss than others with 3x dd 3x np
golden relic
u say its good cuz look at boss dmg logs
when if ppl wanted pure boss dmg they wouldnt run SS
tropic ocean
not worth arguing
spice surge
Nobody plays traits to rank high on boss damage
People play traits to rank high overall
tropic ocean
ss is also a solid choice due to the sheer fact that you can use it to increase your dps when you need to run from rastakhan
tropic ocean
yeah
tropic ocean
i don't know what you're trying to prove to me
spice surge
Well yeah, if you vendetta and vanish when you're gonna miss 50% of it
Then SS is better 😄
tropic ocean
I mean following your logic
the ones using ss traits are superior players to the ones using pure st traits
and thats the reason they outperform them?
spice surge
The logic we are following is that for ST SS is not the best trait
golden relic
exactly
tropic ocean
and I never denied any of that
yet its really good for rastakhan fight
both for boss dps, and add dps
golden relic
and for progression perhaps going full ST on rastakhan is better if adds are dieing fast anyway, which is why ppl tend to say "add dps is meaningless" like the guy
hardy mural
is tradewinds really that good of a trait?
it sims almost 2% higher than ss+subt
idle vigil
@tropic ocean how are you still going on about this
royal lantern
mastery is quite good as a stat and tradewins gives a huge bunch of mastery soooo....
idle vigil
The top parses are cheesing
spice surge
Yeah tradewinds are decent
idle vigil
If you want to look at proper top parses look at top boss damage
That’s damage that matters
idle vigil
Clearly not
golden relic
15
idle vigil
Like read what you post
golden relic
xd
strange python
If you think SS is better for boss damage than DD then you're a bit of a thinking
idle vigil
Like what?
brisk forge
Dunno why someone thinks SS is best for ST 😏
strange python
idiots will be idiots -_-
idle vigil
I bet those 15 parses are also all night elf
strange python
You're actually trolling if you think SS is the best ST trait over DD and NP
dark crag
If adds are involved 1 ss gains a huge value
tropic ocean
I never said ss is the best st trait, I said ss is really good on rastakhan fight, both for single target and add dmg
and logs prove it
so keep your flames to yourself
strange python
SS isn't better ST for rastakhan than any other fight
brisk forge
SS stil cant be better overall on Rasta on ST there is some logs
strange python
I'm confused as to why you think SS magically becomes insane on ST Rastakhan and not any other fight
ruby idol
Boss downtime
tropic ocean
ss has its value on rastakhan due to the mechanic of the boss
which I explained earlier
dark crag
Adds
tropic ocean
if you killed the boss yourself you should know that as well
strange python
if you're using Vanish to garrote him when you run away
instead of in vendetta
then idk
dark crag
On mythic melees stay up, adds again
ruby idol
What
tropic ocean
just check top boss dmg logs to rastakhan
ruby idol
Downtime means a higher percentage of your uptime on boss is during empowered garrotes
tropic ocean
can't say more than that
ruby idol
Not that you vanish garrote during fate
dark crag
Maybe we should choose a fight that he did. With ss you can abuse the adds at champ of light
ruby idol
Any boss with periods of downtime that vanish CD is ticking while you do nothing starts to bring the value of SS up
Is all ausgeles point is
spice surge
Which is valid, but even then, NP does that exact thing but better
strange python
but then you would still line it up with vendetta??
idle vigil
Like wtf
strange python
because that's vanish cooldown
spice surge
But yeah SS obv does add damage too
ruby idol
Coincidentally fights like that also lower the value of DD
strange python
not garrotes ticking on a boss that you're not hitting
ruby idol
For sure NP is nutty in those situations
idle vigil
Np with ma is nuts compared to ss
And you linked logs
And only 15% of top logs had any ss lol
strange python
and surely the minimal downtime increase isn't better than SS+Vendetta together
idle vigil
Idk why this guy thinks he’s right
strange python
and vanish being on cd would only matter if you get another vanish in
dark crag
Ma is a 3 sec +50% crit window, what if you crit without ma?
tropic ocean
@idle vigil must be trolling
strange python
ruby idol
I'm just trying to add a bit of value to ausgeles point. Because it exists. Im sorry ive forgotten to preface every individual message with "NP is obviously insane on Rastakhan"
strange python
"can SS him whilst u run away"
tropic ocean
yeah you can
idle vigil
LOL
spice surge
You dont SS him while you run away
strange python
^^
spice surge
You dont hit him for a while
Which makes SS/NP better
Since DD and the likes get worse in comparison
strange python
but vanish being on cooldown only matters if you get another vanish in right?
ruby idol
What
spice surge
? You still vanish and vendetta together, when you hit the boss
Not when you run out
strange python
spice surge
Yes
strange python
I'm confused what this means
spice surge
If you dont hit the boss, DD does nothing
ruby idol
It means that other traits lose more by not hitting boss
spice surge
Whereas if you dont hit the boss, vanish cd still ticks down
strange python
yeh
so my point is
Vanish cd ticking down in p3 doesn't matter if you don't get another vanish in
spice surge
You're missing the point
ruby idol
Okay assume a 1 minute fight with 20 seconds of downtime
strange python
oh right nono iget you
ok yeh i get u
SS is gonna do more than DD in that case
yeh
strange python
yeh i just misunderstood what u were saying
ruby idol
So because theres a good amount of downtime on rasta, the value of SS rises some
tropic ocean
kinda funny that arguments get better if a better player tells them
tropic ocean
yeah and?
strange python
is about 500000% different from "SS value increases because you don't need to hit boss"
idle vigil
Still don’t think it matters
And logs show it
Top boss damage for 85% of people at top 15% show no ss traits
tropic ocean
yeah and there you see a lot of ss right?
idle vigil
Dude there’s 15 ss out of top 100 logs
tropic ocean
and you see a lot of ss outperforming ma+ddd npnpnp
strange python
I mean when everybodys running an SS on the fight and then you look at boss damage ofcourse majoritys gonna have SS there aswell
tropic ocean
true
strange python
And ss isn't useless on pure ST
tropic ocean
but they also outperform quite a few ppl using ma with 3 dd and 3 np so either they are just better players
and i never said that ss> dd or np
just that its a very decent choice on rastakhan
and many other fights
scenic saffron
Do I have to vanish just after Vendetta when playing MA or can i just do sometime in vendetta window ? with NP
fossil helm
How do you guys handle reaping with assa?
lament dove
you can do it in the window, but if you play MA it pretty much aligns
scenic saffron
by resepeccing to outlaw
spice surge
Preferably you vanish in TB too
@fossil helm Spam fok, try to rupture targets that will die fairly fast to get the energy refund to spam more fok
And have echoing traits obv
scenic saffron
2nd question: is it better to TB at 0 cp when EP is up then mut-mut-env or TB+env when EP is not up
dark crag
Tb on cd
fathom viper
TB on CD, as long as you're not sacrificing crazy envenom/EP string try and pool before TB comes up
you do a lot of damage with envenom buff up + TB
there's a few exceptions but I don't know BoD well enough to discuss when
first boss in ML is a good example, can delay because the damage bonus is so large
frigid sleet
do we know how many vanish we can pair with TB before vanish CD is not synced with vendetta anymore ?
dark crag
Vanish is 2 min, vendetta is 2 min
fathom viper
it would be news to me if you're delaying vanish for TB inside of Vendetta
actually you should do that if it's the last vendetta of the fight you'll get
frigid sleet
thats why i'm asking because I guess its a win to delay it if you dont end up having it desynced with vendetta I guess
dark crag
Tb is 25 sec cd
fathom viper
as long as you do not lose a usage
of vendetta/vanish
it should be fine
and you don't ever want to lose a TB usage
frigid sleet
I could do the math but I was wondering if someone had the number I mean
dark crag
Ma window is 3 secs long
spice surge
As long as you dont lose a cast of vendetta/vanish its worth to line em up
scenic saffron
Luhmi you are just saying numbers
spice surge
Which means that a lot of times it worth
fathom viper
yeah
the most you want to delay vanish inside of vendetta would be 17s tho right?
16?
because of master assassin
frigid sleet
sounds right
cobalt pelican
the difference between tb and no tb in the ma window is negligible
like super negligible
fathom viper
uhh
frigid sleet
really ?
spice surge
Wdym
dark crag
If you keep tb on cd, it will align itself pretty much. The few secs will not make you lose casts
spice surge
Its 30%
fathom viper
I don't know about that dude lol
spice surge
You wouldnt delay vanish for 17s after vendetta
Since if you're delaying anyway, might as well delay vendetta so that you have an entire tb inside
frigid sleet
that make sens
fathom viper
yeah I think that's the consensus as well
it's pretty hard to lose a vanish/vendetta usage
scenic saffron
To sum up, cast vendetta and vanish always together but delay vendetta/vanish if tb is not up. Did i get it right ?
spice surge
Not necassarily, if you know you wont lose a cast you can delay
So that you have the entire tb in vendetta, which means you can vendetta when tb is at 10s left
It doesnt need to be up immediately
dark crag
Tb with 30 sec cd would fit much better
scenic saffron
yea blizzard just nerf it to 30s end my misery
scenic saffron
monkaS
dark crag
5×25 is 125, vendetta is 120. Second tb is up around 5 sec after vend
frigid sleet
did some napkin math they would desync at the 5th cast so after like 8 mins so I guess you can easily never miss a vanish +TB inside vendetta
fathom viper
wow
I had no idea
I remember seeing Method's rogue
Yilajio?
delaying Vendetta for a very long time on Jaina prog
I'm assuming that's why
spice surge
Well no
On jaina you delay it because you need dps
In that phase
And you need it in the next phase
cobalt pelican
i doubt you'll see anyone delaying specifically for tb on prog unless they know their encounter length within a margin of like 5 seconds..
the upside is literally tiny compared to the potential downside
dark crag
I am currently at jaina prog, second vend is ready right when she uses frost aoe in p1, i could cloak but i need to clear the path for the ♿
fathom viper
well on a fight like Jaina where you know you need Vendetta for wall and at P3
not sure why not*
cobalt pelican
if you're vendettaing the wall i
spice surge
You cant vendetta wall
cobalt pelican
like
dark crag
It delays it all but makes it ready for wall
cobalt pelican
what
spice surge
After nerf
You could before, but you would only get like 10-15s in p3
Which isnt worth
fathom viper
I vividly remember Yilajo vendetta'ing wall during prog. I don't know if that's how they killed it
spice surge
It wasnt
fathom viper
whether or not it's correct isn't what I'm saying
spice surge
Yeye np
ruby idol
Vendetta wall lets ranged get free dmg on jaina during that intermission
dense blaze
We have one rogue vendetta wall, works well, big fan
ruby idol
No reason not to vendetta wall really
fathom viper
well their strrat at the time revolved around using the bare minimum CD's on the wall
anyways, I don't know if it's correct or not just remember seeing him press vendetta on wall :X
@ruby idol makes sense thoio for sure
ruby idol
Well the idea is what makes p3 shorter. Usually you vendettaing wall during lust lets more ranged plow jaina for free during lust
So shes lower going into p3, thus shortening p3
tropic ocean
@dark crag are you not using cloak in first ring
to keep dps?
spice surge
Why would you cloak first ring for dps, cloaking second is better
Since you have vendetta ready
dark crag
No, i am the saviour of the ♿
tropic ocean
Cuz i need cloak to pretu. Kick intermission
ruby idol
Need to cloak first to have cloak to clear circles in intermission
tropic ocean
Prerun*
cobalt pelican
the wall intermission is timed though
it's not like the quicker you kill the wall the more time you get on jaina
spice surge
Idk im not cloaking anything in intermission 🤷
cobalt pelican
infact it's more or less the opposite
ruby idol
The less ranged have to hit the wall during intermission
spice surge
Well more ranged can dps jaina
cobalt pelican
no ranged should have to anyway..
dark crag
I cloak to prevent blocks
cobalt pelican
if you have a handful of melee and an mm hunter on the wall
it's not like it's tight
spice surge
But for my guild we had all of our ranged hit jaina and still made the dps check on the wall
So it wasnt needed at all, so i just saved
ruby idol
Well then you dont have to vendetta wall
spice surge
Ye, it just depends
ruby idol
Like its comp based
strange python
do you guys reapply garrote before you go up in the air on jadefire or before
after*
stray imp
Hey guys always wondered why the feather trinket from KR is so good for assa. Vers is one of my worst stats. Why is it so strong?
royal lantern
its around ~10%vers, wich is a flat 10%dmg increase wich is actually huge
and its hard too fuck up because the cd is the same as vendetta, so you just use the trinket togheter with vendetta and its fine
stray imp
K thanks
royal lantern
gcb as an example is stronger in theory, but can become bad because you need too use it on cd for the full value, but movment has a high change too prevent that
cobalt gyro
It's a little weaker than gcb, but you can lose out on gcbs value more easily
spice surge
If gcb had a 2 min cd it would be bonkers for assa
And well, the crucible trinket looks to be basicly that, with a bit of downside but eh
tropic ocean
would still be really scuffed by movement sadly I guess crucible will be really really strong
mastery is my best stat atm on st
so 985 for 30sec gonna be huge
spice surge
Probably not gonna use it for the full 30s on progress, 20-25s is good enough most of the time and makes you take A LOT less damage
tropic ocean
for pants im not that confident that confident if the dmg will proc frequently enough to make up the 2ndary stat loss
spice surge
tropic ocean
so
just remove buff after 25s I guess
i mean thats a lot of xtra dmg if several persons use that trinket
cobalt gyro
to be fair, you do get GCB with every vendetta
spice surge
Well yeah, but it is weaker than it would be if it had 2 min cd
cobalt gyro
yeah i assumed that's what you meant tbh
ifi t was 2:00 cd and lasted as long as a plumage
it'd be insane
20 seconds of 20% haste
candid jasper
Interesting, 3x doube dose and 3x nothing personal is simming higher than 3x double dose, 2x nothing personal and 1x TC
tropic ocean
do you garrote/rupture the elemental in p3?
spice surge
Not too shocking, its gonna depend on the 3:rd ring trait too
No
You dont gain jaina damage by multidotting
potent oracle
3 nothing personal 2 mutilate 1 shrouded , its good for raid ?
winter gale
Bbi or tc?
spice surge
Bbi
simple meteor
dice/spyglasss work together proper right mates?
spice surge
Yes?
simple meteor
ty 😃
pseudo hamlet
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
brisk forge
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
primal gazelle
ECHOING BLADES FOR LIFEEEEEEEEE
cosmic prism
is there any need to track envenom with weakauras? if so anyone got any good weakauras that do, cant find any good ones
oh i didnt see this wa link lol ignore
spice surge
@prime quail Not really
crystal barn
i use loaded dice and spyglass for trinkets atm - should i delay my first use of vendetta to line up with procs?
inner pecan
@crystal barn no
you want your vendetta in your prepot
and trinkets with rppm will proc in the first couple seconds of a fight anyway
crystal barn
ty
atomic saddle
If you have no EB traits, from how many targets do you use FoK? (e.g Rastakhan)
hollow stone
Without knowing your gear. My knee-jerk reaction is plz dont fok on rasta
spice surge
Slightly dependant on other stats, but those are general guidelines
lost horizon
keep in mind you still need to have DP up on targets to get value if you're multidotting
dark crag
You can fok 1 time to apply poisons
hollow stone
I dont even think thats worth it. But hey, idk. Im speaking feelycrafty
lost horizon
not a guaranteed chance though, just keep an eye on it and tab for some autoattacks
dark crag
Under envenom the chance is high enough. Also i would go ss at rasta mythic to cheese
lost horizon
yeah definitely SS if you're looking to parse
high enough sure, but still worth keeping an eye out for DP drop on a target with rupture
sick cradle
With 3xEB, do I just spam FoK or do I cast Envenom to spend the CP aswell?
hollow fern
Hello everyone! I'm looking for an answer to this, i can't find a definitive one. About SS trait, I know you get the 2 bonus CP only when garrotte is casted from stealth. But is it true for the additionnal tivk damage too?
Is it only when casted from stealth
spice surge
If you want aoe damage you fok, if you want damage to a specific target then you envenom
hollow fern
Or also all the time
tropic ocean
@hollow fern only from stealth
spice surge
You only get the damage and cp bonus when cast from stealth
hollow fern
Alright thanks very much
rigid mango
So when I sim my 2nd NP vs TC at 90% it gives me a -70 dmg, I would guess that jaina has a 95%~ uptime on TC though, would that make up 70 dmg?
heavy skiff
is there a way to do a wa, that makes a ding when i envenom and have ep active?
just want to know how far i can go with clipping xD
flint jetty
I mean I guess you could do like a spell cast success with buff active with dynamic info from first active trigger
But it's not really worth to try and maintain ep
barren dagger
Hey guys, so I've read the pinned Guide as well as one from icy veins and one says Master Assassin is viable for ST and one says it might hold potential for AoE. Which one is accurate ? Since I dont have SS traits yet, I was considering to take it, but I'm unsure because of that conflicting information (P.S. I know I could sim it, but I am interested in the reasoning behind the choice)
spice surge
I wouldnt recommend icy veins
MA is the goto for ST
Subterfuge is the goto for aoe and/or if you have SS traits
rigid mango
Also, eleem
So when I sim my 2nd NP vs TC at 90% it gives me a -70 dmg, I would guess that jaina has a 95%~ uptime on TC though, would that make up 70 dmg?
spice surge
If you want a good guide that is more indepth than the one in the pins i recommend wowhead
Maybe 🤷
barren dagger
Yeah seeing how subterfuge heavily focusses on garrote I figured that too, but I thought I might be missing something here. Thanks Eleem 😃
rigid mango
hm ok
spice surge
Just sim with 95% then? :p
rigid mango
Thought you could only sim with 10% increments on raidbots?
spice surge
Oh maybe, i havent checked
visual quartz
I mean its never recomemded to go MA for AoE at any time but like trash inbetween bosses when you still have MA on I throw my 3xeb traits on, feels nice for those first 3 FoK from stealth, strong burst
islands too feels fun
sick cradle
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
fleet whale
Blood of the enemy "essence" looks nice for assassination
The Heart of Azeroth erupts violently, dealing 38,006 Physical damage to enemies within 12 yds. You gain 25% Critical Strike chance against the targets for 15 sec.
Increases your Critical hit damage by 35% for 15 sec.
i was thinking more along the lines of how it would be with the MA build, but yeah, some synergy right there
flint jetty
Except you can only use one major power essence right? So you wouldn't be able to use both unless I'm missing something
fleet whale
i thought you could get three but i could be wrong
tropic ocean
is there a list of all major?
fleet whale
there is a list on wowhead but it might not be the full list
tropic ocean
u got a link?
fleet whale
tropic ocean
cheers
primal gazelle
Major Power: The Heart of Azeroth erupts violently, dealing 38,006 Physical damage to enemies within 12 yds. You gain 25% Critical Strike chance against the targets for 15 sec.
Increases your Critical hit damage by 35% for 15 sec.
this is insane for echoing blades since it always crits
spice surge
Its insane for most things
I'd be really suprised if it was released with those numbers
primal gazelle
i wonder if blizz will nerf 5% crit on some classes to prevent it going to ridiculous numbers
im at 42-43 rn unbuffed, prob easily get to 50% base crit with 8.2 gear and 450+ ilvl
fleet whale
the only issue that i have with that active is that it's a 1.5 min cd. Would be kind of awkward unless if you just delay it for Vendetta/Vanish in ST
nimble tartan
What's gonna be our class essence bro
spice surge
Its not class based
nimble tartan
Oh is this like a generic avenging wrath
strange python
@marble hemlock
nimble tartan
strange python
are u there master
spice surge
Oh you meant that one, idk if its tank specific
If its for everyone, i assume its vendetta
strange python
what stats do you usually want for MA build for raids?
i guess mastery is important here?
bleak spoke
@nimble tartan that's kinda hot
spice surge
Your talents doesnt change much what stats you want
marble hemlock
SHOW YOURSELF
bleak spoke
wait but if that was for generic cooldowns that doesn't make any sense
also 8 seconds of vendetta randomly would be pretty hot anyway
turbid oxide
wowhead has that one in the tank only section
marble hemlock
i was pinged. why?
turbid oxide
and it seems very tank oriented with the vers and self heal
marble hemlock
oh, nvm
im not playing MA in raids
or, rarely
i prefer the consistency of subterfuge over the crit-RNG of MA
atomic willow
confirmed outlaw nerf for 8.2
marble hemlock
lets just hope they buff sub
so all the fotm-rerollers swap from outlaw to sub
instead of infesting this beautiful place
frigid sleet
any particular advice on getting the most out of spy glass trinket in aoe situation in m+
fleet whale
Blood of the enemy could be nice with Sec Tech
and about spy glass FoK will give you stacks whether your targeting the mob with the debuff or not. As long as FoK hits that target, you will get stacks
frigid sleet
alrighty
strange python
it was me Seli sorry
marble hemlock
you could show the spyglass debuff on the nameplates @frigid sleet and then melee the mob that has it in addition to using your general aoe rotation
but that basically just means you get to 5stacks a second or two earlier
so its not a big deal if you dont do it
frigid sleet
🤔 okay
marble hemlock
its usually more important to melee targets that dont have a poison up yet from the FoKs you used
atomic saddle
Is there any good gear awaiting us in Crucible raid or is it all trash effects?
zenith gust
anyone doing 18+ keys as assassination rogue? what would be a good trait combination for tyrannical? i usually use the 3xEB + 3xSS, but i guess that's not good enough for tyrannical bosses right?
and if not? would like to try an alternative
i'm checking logs at warcraftlogs
i'm seeing things like
2xEB + 2xSS + 2TtK
3xEB + 2xSS + 1 TtK
ok
i'm fed up with outlaw really, the dice thing pisses me off so much xD
rigid mango
I'd only go 2 tops on EB, I normally go 3x Eb 1x ttk bbi eb
Working out great for 20~ when we already have an outlaw in the group etc
tawdry rune
did trhey do something to assass rogue latley?
lyric vessel
Hi, I came back from some months of not playing. I was using dungeon slice sim and it says that I should go for haste yes or yes. Is this correct? Isnt crit or mastery better for M+ ?
fair blaze
Depends what type of damage do you want to do
You wanna do more aoe dmg? Go crit mastery, you want to compete on bosses more, go with haste
fallen bay
Is this week assa better than outlaw or should is stick. To it?
civic palm
If you're not pushing keys or running into issues, doubt it matters enough to worry about it.
polar dagger
anyone got good knowledge on TtK builds?
hardy sequoia
What Azerite pieces would you recommend for Jains mythic?
polar dagger
how good is the TtK build for m+?
strange python
Depends what your comp needs but I personal play a sort of TTK build and I like it a lot
My group comps normally require priodamage so that is what i provide :)
dull compass
Heyho, stopped playing for 4 months, came back two days ago. It kind of feels that im more energy starved frequently. That they in any way change vigor or Venomous Wounds, or anything else for that matter that could help explain this `?
solid nova
Poisons applied?
civic palm
There has been no change to Vigor or VW since BfA launch.
dull compass
@solid nova yeah lol
solid nova
Hey man, gotta check these things 😄
vast forum
Lack of ra
dull compass
Hmm, strange, maybe its subjective
vast forum
750 haste was huge
Also tb build has overall less energy than exsg
In case you played exsg then and tb now
dull compass
Yeah it seems to be stronger right now, kinda have to adjust to the new meta
but yeah it might be the missing haste
vast forum
Those are the only 2 changes in terms of spec pacing
Also with new np trait u get more energy
dull compass
Alrighty, thanks for the info :>
vast forum
Np
fossil slate
Where do you guys tend to find the balance with sin in terms of not just spamming mutilate and never having energy and pooling too much and losing dps. I feel like atm I just am missing out on so much but at the same time my vendetta and pb burst windows don’t seem to be too effective
dark crag
Pooling isn't losing dps
Capping energy, wasting cp and dropping bleeds is
Build cp, pool a bit, use finisher build cp while ep/env are up, prepare for tb window, watch bleeds, ???, win
soft pond
hey mates, need a hand, we starting jaina progresion today and im not sure if outlaw is better than assa, anyone have first hand info? im no talking purely of raw dps btw
dark crag
Go assa
hollow stone
Theyre both good and both have their uses. Outlaw cheeses p3 w wits and bf onto ele so until you get there, theres no real difference. Play the one you do more dmg with
soft pond
thanks for the advices then
dark crag
Ele hp is so low, with a few dhs you risk its death
hollow stone
Yee. Hes just starting so i didnt wanna dive in too deep too fast :p
hollow stone
Dont be. Its a great melee fight
dark crag
Assa is consistent and very good boss dmg, outlaw can cleave
hollow stone
To add to luhmi, melee job (for the most part) is tunnel boss so in a general sense id also recommend sin, like he did
dark crag
The real jaina fight starts with the icewall
hollow stone
I think my group wasted the most pulls in p1 tbh. Feelsbad
dark crag
Yes p1 is the hardest part, but once everyone knows how it goes it is trivial
Intermission is ♿ mode
P3 is burst the shit out of jaina and we know how outlaw can be. Without cleaving the add you are dead weight
soft pond
i did all the raid as assa if there is no REAL reason to switch i prefer not to
and clearly there is not
so thanks again
dark crag
Yesterday some guildi posted a 3 rogue log, 2 outlaw 1 assa
hollow stone
Yea. Theres no real reason to swap to OL for it
spice surge
Well if you enjoy outlaw play outlaw
I'd actually say outlaw is on average better than assa on jaina
Since the fight timing is so awful for assa. Only getting one vendetta out and the part where damage matters is like 90-110 seconds long, just enough so that you dont get a second vendetta
But they're both very solid, so play what you enjoy the most, if you've been playing assa so far just continue to do that
dark crag
1 vendetta is guranteed good dmg, outlaw without cleave is hit or miss
spice surge
There is cleave though?
dark crag
The ele