Yeah there you go
#assassination
tropic ocean
i got rejected for not being outlaw some times as well, funny thing by ppl with 200-300 rio less than me ๐
rigid mango
What's ur score at?
tropic ocean
2188
tropic ocean
not kicked just rejected ๐
velvet comet
well the only time i can understand it is on skittish
tropic ocean
some ppl are just metaslaves so
rigid mango
same thing
tropic ocean
who gives a shit
raven osprey
@tropic ocean yeah it is, but everyone who can play their class is fine
velvet comet
outlaw just burst aggro tank with tricks
tropic ocean
the higher u get the less it will happen
velvet comet
if i use tricks on pull as assa is kinda pointhless because my dmg comes after like 5 sec
rigid mango
I mean atm
tropic ocean
some time ago in motherlode they asked me if I can play outlaw cuz assa is trash
then they cried
rigid mango
Outlaw is a better pure aoe spec
velvet comet
who said that?
raven osprey
I wanna go for a 2nd SS or 2nd ttk (probably ttk cause of chain pulls)
tropic ocean
but it happened regularly that ppl just say play outlaw pls assa is shit
fun to prove em wrong
raven osprey
my luck with shoulders is as good as winning the lottery
rigid mango
hm I mean
real bay
most ppl likely haven't played with a sin who is actually good, tbh, it's harder, but u an keep up with outlaw , some times he wins sometimes me
rigid mango
getting a balance between ttk, ss and eb
raven osprey
its super fun when it's reaping and you do 100k+ while they suck it at 40-60k
rigid mango
While who?
if u have outlaws doing 40-60k on reaping
You should be kicking said outlaw
tropic ocean
I mean depending on affix its a different kind of utility you bring to your group and as someone mentioned yesterday also really depends on group setup
raven osprey
not outlaw, dh, mages
tropic ocean
but especially in fortified u can easily keep up with outlaws
rigid mango
That's why it sorta sucks
tropic ocean
in non fortified it will be harder due to burst vs dots
velvet comet
well i can get easily get to 100k on reaping as assa, but knowing a good outlaw could also do 150-200k kinda sucks
tropic ocean
guess it gets a lot better when you get into higher rio/keys
rigid mango
^
real bay
this is exactly why I never pug just own group
velvet comet
there been a few sin in mdi
rigid mango
yeah
I need to pug
I look for groups, but pug mostly
I've got some peeps that I regularly run with
but like, most pugs just see outlaw take outlaw
It's simple to play, and I get rewarded for pressing 1 button
wee woo
tropic ocean
i basically pug everything
sometimes annoying but also very efficient cuz if someone rips key u just leave and go next
so no time effort to up keys again
๐
velvet comet
best are the groups that dont show any mdd route and just expect u to randomly shroud when they want u to and start flame if u not instantly do it
velvet comet
or if they wanna shroud stealth detection mobs
tropic ocean
I guess the one that goes well together
rigid mango
well aye
but tank n healer are already set
everyone knows which ones are going there
tropic ocean
like if u check current top runs some asians pop up with ret and hunter so
velvet comet
well tbh
cosmic pier
player synergy is better than meta comp up until 22+
velvet comet
rogue brings nothing but dmg and shroud
tropic ocean
I guess its not really tied to the classes if you synergize well
cosmic pier
boomie OMEGALUL
rigid mango
Nah
strange python
ye
rigid mango
Boomie is bad
strange python
no he makes you look better
solid nova
tropic ocean
boomie is good in certain circumstances
strange python
that's why u bring him
rigid mango
๐
tropic ocean
but overall dmg is non competitive sadly
velvet comet
boomie is ok
solid nova
-> #wow-general
tropic ocean
2 stuns
rigid mango
cc
tropic ocean
short cd kick
velvet comet
well, i mean we have no buff, no cr, no aoe stun
rigid mango
Yeah?
tropic ocean
i mean in bolstering week I even off tanked matron with evasion :^)
raven osprey
i really love silence tho xD
tropic ocean
sin has multi silence as well as -15% dmg
tropic ocean
or 10% dmg increase on prio target if needed (kidney)
strange python
Blind sap
rigid mango
saying that rogue only has dmg and shroud
is so insanely incorrect
it's mind boggeling
tropic ocean
raw dmg and shroud def no the only reasons rogue has so high pickrate
rigid mango
Just because we don't have aoe stuns no cr and no buff
that are specifically some classes
and limited to said classes
cosmic pier
i mean it is a large part of it, look at late legion meta. dh and monk were way more desirable than rogue because their damage was busted
tropic ocean
but with warri tank druid heal meta do you really need much more aoe stuns? ๐
tropic ocean
monk wasmeta cuz dmg was crazy broken ๐
rigid mango
Aye
tropic ocean
cuz it will outvalue all the utility
solid nova
Can you take the various m+ class discussion to #wow-general if its not sin related thank you
velvet comet
what i wanted to say is that other classes have maybe a better kit than rogues do. aoe stun is really great if tank is about to die or necrotic. mdi was just full of outlaw cause they bring like the most dmg, which u can do if u play perfect. but sham ele or boomie trees are also a great utility for tanks when they about to die on reaping for example
rigid mango
Yeah
but rogue still has so many things
Boomies have trees, but they don't have several stuns, silences etc
You can't say that rogue, esp sin, doesn't bring more than shroud and dmg
velvet comet
yea, my wording kinda been wrong
rigid mango
Just because some classes have things that others don't
rigid mango
^
tropic ocean
for me iron wire is one of the greatest tools of sin
i can take care of double spritzer and reduce dmg of 3 mobs
its insane
velvet comet
yea thats true, -15% dmg on 3 mobs
tropic ocean
i always tell my groups let me kick first 2 casts
its like having 2 extra kicks in start of a pack
super value
velvet comet
well, problem is that ppl dont value that
solid nova
Disagree
tropic ocean
ppl don't value a lot of things when its not meta
rigid mango
HARD disagree
tropic ocean
i timed 18 sots 19 wm with druid tank, was decent other ppl decline everything but warrior
as said, guess it gets better the higher you get
velvet comet
im sure i can outdps most of the average outlaws
vestal wren
the point is that warrior is just so much more efficient in keys
velvet comet
and yet still get kicked sometimes for not playing outlaw
solid nova
I think any group worth their salt knows the value of sin/rogue utility in general
vestal wren
so why would you use a druid instead
rigid mango
But does is ur dmg value though
Like
Playing trip EB
Is like sacrificing all your dmg to do outlaw dmg on aoe
When you could be doing valuable prio dmg
Killing the things that matter rather than padding on everything
Outlaw doesn't sacrifice anything to have prio dmg, they press BF and do ST rotation on 1 mob
solid nova
Why 3eb when you can 1 bi 2 eb 3 SS and still perform on ST 
solid nova
Not tried the nelf life for ss
velvet comet
i havnt seen any sub rogue the whole year
solid nova
Can you actually get value of 9 ss targets?
velvet comet
not even open world
tropic ocean
atm using 3x ss 1x ttk 2x eb
rigid mango
I mean
tropic ocean
and its fine
solid nova
Curious as not played alliance for years
rigid mango
and keep SS shit up for ages
vestal wren
sub is played in pvp atm, outside of that well^^
solid nova
Yeah fair point
rigid mango
I'm ally atm and debating swapping to nelf
vestal wren
5x nightelf -> free reaping skip
solid nova
Definitely going to occur but it'll still effect ss regardless
So rogues wont suffer
Imo
vestal wren
just dont drop combat -> easy fix
solid nova
Ye i dont think it'll be too difficult if they want to go down that route
vestal wren
we already have nightelf meta at mdi ๐
rigid mango
Yeah
distant lava
nightelf was broken with infested aswell tbh
solid nova
Theres always one
vestal wren
void elf meta next?
vestal wren
inb4 you can skip reaping with the v elf tp too
primal gazelle
theyll need to somehow fix the NE skip, otherwise there wont be any non-NE classes in future MDI
distant lava
they were some dwarf rogues at least
primal gazelle
ya that sham didnt work out too well for them either
solid nova
Whats the benefit of dwarf > nelf for sin tho
primal gazelle
what are some non-ne classes besides sham and rets?
solid nova
There's literally no reason not to take nelf atm if you're wanting to push
rigid mango
idk
If ur playing outlaw
vanish barely does anything
so
you can run dwarf
and get that juicy racial
solid nova
Fair point
rigid mango
That's why undad was running di dwarf
on shit like, 3rd boss UR where you have a guaranteed usage
it's nice
And seeing as how neraly all rogues in mdi were outlaw, I can see why
esp when you have wits stacks and you don't use vanish whilst in BF
solid nova
Channel topic straying 
but yeah you right
I didnt actually check sin traits in mdi runs
rigid mango
Yeah, I know ๐ฆ
nor did I, fair point
I was hyped to see them
I'd assume it'd be prio build tho
solid nova
After watching a few i didnt expect to see it
distant lava
richard is leading us of topic 
rigid mango
Aye
strange python
One ran 2xBBI, 1xEB, 2xSS
rigid mango
and a what
strange python
3xSS
solid nova
2bbi 1 eb
strange python
Sorry
solid nova
really?
rigid mango
Ah
solid nova
2nd bbi > 2nd eb?
rigid mango
how do u even get 2 bbi?
strange python
The itemlevels were set
rigid mango
Ah
strange python
So they got the head from the thingy 415
strange python
Why tho? 1BBI is god
rigid mango
but why have 1 when you can have 2?
strange python
And no I didn't want to type good.... it is god
strange python
I dunno I, personally think that TTK and EB are better to have 2x of
solid nova
Tricky as unless you could tourney realm couldnt test
I've heard 2bbi is giga for st with 1 eb 3 ss
But not seen it
strange python
what is bbi by the way
rigid mango
Yeah
solid nova
Yeah but as we cant get it on live 
strange python
ty
rigid mango
that one
strange python
I mean say you have 1.9k crit + 1.3k (1 BBI ) + Deadeye you will almost if not be at 100%. Why waste a BBI and get 120% crit
rigid mango
rng baby
strange python
I roll shoulder next week
sullen pagoda
Just loot it 4head
strange python
watch me get it 
sullen pagoda
It sims basically the same as getting 3rd np for me
velvet comet
3 ss 2 eb + bbi so much better than 3 ss 3eb?
solid nova
It gives you more ST
rigid mango
I'd say so
solid nova
- crit
meager basalt
whts a good head w ss and eb
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
rigid mango
nvm that did not have what I wanted
solid nova
Sec i got link
rigid mango
yeah got it in pins
solid nova
rigid mango
Is there not a command for that`?
solid nova
Can make one, usually we made them for like really frequent faqs (like offhand for outlaw)
rigid mango
^
velvet comet
weird its about 300 dps behind on bloodmallet
velvet comet
yea true
velvet comet
anyhow, gotta afk. thx for all the help guys
meager basalt
why ttk?
rigid mango
Ttk is rly good for prio dmg
running shit like, 2ttk 2 ss 1 eb 1 bbi
is pretty good
or more Ss heavy, etc
meager basalt
yeah i got 420 engineer helm for ttk rn
and barrage of bombs m+ be like vietnam bruuuuuuuther
idle vigil
Ss masterace
meager basalt
yeah its gonna hurt to save up this t.res
rigid mango
hm yeah
I mean atm I'm playing outlaw because it's just easier in pugs
but whenever I get around to getting an actual group to push consistantly, and I'm soon at the point where that's nearly needed
I'll start running prio assa again
tough skiff
I sim higher with Scent of Blood than ttk ๐
royal lantern
for m+/aoe?
tough skiff
yeah
royal lantern
or st
well
the thing with scent for m+ is
you need too do REALLY high keys for it too actually be worth it imo
tough skiff
whats an high key for u?
royal lantern
18+ imo
lethal mauve
What about swirling sands+bbi 3dd 1np for st?
royal lantern
where you start too need too actually look at the team comp etc....
tropic ocean
@meager basalt i changed my clapper to engineer too just cause the bomb animation is so nice
good morning vietnman
vietnam*
tough skiff
the eng helm with ttk and bombs arent helping me at all
tough skiff
patch 6b 1m
fallen bay
Do i spam Crimson tempest on Forti week ? and do i use it on ST aswell ?M
sinful cypress
I just saw that most people pick cheat death instead of elusiveness at grong. Is the Death Knell ability considered as aoe dmg and thus mitigated by a degree with feint?
strange python
I don't know -- but considering you want it to be, probably not
dapper laurel
Hi guys, is it normal that i'm often out of stamina ?
Or do i lack talent and haste ?
My single target has garrote and rupture on; poisons too and trying to dump with envenom
sinful cypress
70%?
idle vigil
People take cheat death because theyโre stupid
40% from aoe reduction
30% from elusiveness
sinful cypress
I really dont think that they're stupid, thats why i am asking
worldly iron
I don't even have to use feint, I trust in my healers
cheat death doesn't cost energy
idle vigil
I mean one reason why rogues are the most survivable classes is because of feint
worldly iron
idle vigil
Like one of my biggest pet peeve
Is people taking cheat death
Actually so stupid 99% of the time just to avoid using your brain
worldly iron
my pet peeve is people calling other people stupid in such a rude manner
sinful cypress
But if Feint in general decreases 40% of the dmg you really dont need to take elusiveness, thats why im asking
my question was if death knell is considered as an aoe ability and thus mitigated by feint
idle vigil
It is
worldly iron
or you use your brain even more to prevent it from proccing and keeping it for emergencies
sinful cypress
ty for the answer
idle vigil
??? lol
The only fight you would ever take it on is maybe stormwall
Incase you fuckup or have to soak solo but thatโs it in my mind
worldly iron
you can go elusiveness all you want, it's really good
idle vigil
Every other case having a significant damage reduction on a 15s cd is by far superior
worldly iron
but try changing your attitude into being more helpful
rather than bashing everyone
"people who pick cheat death are idiots"
worldly iron
how about "I think elusiveness is objectively better because X"
idle vigil
I literally explained my reasoning
And you came back with a response of I trust my healers lol
Some quality reasoning
idle vigil
I expect if you disagree to provide evidence
rigid mango
"voicing opinion" isn't th same as saying "people who do X are stupid"
idle vigil
Not white knight on the internet
rigid mango
You can voice your opinion without being an arse about it
worldly iron
^
vast forum
Colleo, not only is your attitude out of place, you're also plain wrong
Elusiveness only reduces non-aoe dmg
Aka dmg normally not mitigated by feint
hollow stone
So here's the thing about feint. Feint costs energy. Energy is potential dps. Usually if you are going to die to a mechanic, elusiveness wont be the saving grace. So most people tend to take cheat in a raid setting as a default option
sinful cypress
The tooltip says all incoming dmg @vast forum
worldly iron
all incoming non-aoe, right?
vast forum
No it doesn't
dark crag
Elusiveness only reduces nonaoe dmg
rigid mango
So
vast forum
It says non area of effect
worldly iron
that's golden
rigid mango
he's voicing
idle vigil
Eusiveness stops all dmg
worldly iron
lmfao
sinful cypress
Sry, youre right
idle vigil
All damage
sinful cypress
@vast forum youre right, pardon, it says everything except for aoe dmg
hollow stone
Its the energy cost. Let's be real
dark crag
With elu you have 40% aoe and 30% notaoe dmg reduction
vast forum
So when you feint with elusiveness you get 40% reduction to aoe and 30%nonaoe
worldly iron
that's hilarious
hollow stone
Either make feint cost energy with no cd, or make it free with a cd. The current feint state is poop
vast forum
Also the energy cost is rarely worth it
rigid mango
hahahahaahahaha
dark crag
Elu doesn't increase the aoe reduction
vast forum
All the best players in the world are idiots
Fuck you mdi players
Colleo knows better
rigid mango
He's the new TC god
worldly iron
all he did was voice his superior opinion, guys
vast forum
That isn't as far from truth as colleo's superior opinion
hollow stone
By speccing poison bomb instead
rigid mango
^
CT isn't worth playing
if ur new
Stick to PB
it's simpler, no complication of your rotation
and the difference is mininmal
If you're new, that difference won't matter what so ever
You're way better off playing sin and learning, and delving into CT when you feel truly comfortable with the spec
mint peak
Can also play HB for the memes. The difference on ST is not that big and it can be more fun to 1 shot the risen souls in a FoK
edgy pawn
i agree with playing pb in the beginning, but if you wanna go ct, gop check out dratnos. he has a very nice video series on assa rogue
sullen pagoda
fuck i missed a feint argument ๐ฆ
worn violet
on tyr weeks when pulling large isnt it better to rup 3x EB + hidden blades? I'm pretty sure I saw a rogue running that set up hit ~43K overall in FH+21
rip*
worldly iron
feint argument
sullen pagoda
with build like that on tyra sure you can hit big numbers but thats just racing with other dps whos gonna kill low hp mobs for pad
aint really overall useful
mint peak
On Tyrannical if you need the boss DPS then obviously its better to go PB. It depends on 100 factors. There's no set way and each viable build has its own merits
sullen pagoda
PB really isnt that big of a factor for ST imo its really gutted dmg since legion
its more of a choice between azerites
mint peak
It's not a huge factor but it is probably a couple % points of DPS which may be the difference between a wipe or not a wipe.
sullen pagoda
eh you can't look at things as maybe wipe maybe not
mint peak
Or just spending more time, getting another phase in last boss shrine for example
sullen pagoda
PB is picked more cuz of its synergy with playing TTK and TB
or to reword it non synergy between CT and TTK/TB
mint peak
If by synergy you mean doing more priority target DPS then yes that's exactly my point.
Sometimes you need that push and sometimes you don't
worn violet
Well tyr weeks you're still shooting for overall damage - faster kill times during pad sessions = more time to tear into bosses - reaping excluded since people just pull reaping with bosses half the time anyways.
iirc the guy ran 2x SS, 1 NP, 3x EB and finished out the dungeon looking pretty good.
sullen pagoda
that depends on dungeon @worn violet
worn violet
oh 100%
sullen pagoda
like lets say high KR 1st boss you want fat ST before you run out of rotating defensives for spit gold
I personally prefer running CT still
but yea depends on ur azerites
worn violet
agreed, which is why I'd run Sin on that Vs. Outlaw - rng of outlaw rolls make that fight interesting.
Even running 2x SS + 1NP I'd feel more comfortable with the sin's single target reliability over outlaws.
sullen pagoda
yea ive changed my mind about outlaw tbh
mint peak
On Tyrannical the fight is long enough your roll RNG isn't really that much of a factor. More of a factor is fight length. If you're ending soon after Vendetta then Assa will do more. If you're ending right as its coming off CD you're prob doing more as Outlaw
Or close enough that it doesn't matter
worn violet
I dunno, I've been pretty dicked on fights as outlaw before. ๐
re-roll #7 here we go
mint peak
It can be pretty bad if its like 1 min or 1.5 mins. But like 4 min tyrannical bosses you're prob getting a couple good keepers
sullen pagoda
i had a jaina mythic pull with like 6 rerolls in a row all of them that shitty skull for sinister %
lets just say that was my last outlaw try on that boss ๐
worn violet
I spent the entirety of the sharkboss' fight in free hold rerolling once. Would alternate between true bearing and buried treasure
I specifically remember at 30% thinking to myself " why am I still rerolling, I should probably just accept it at this point"
dark crag
The better your raid gets at jaina mythic the lesser outlaw is worth
When you wipe in low % and guess who rerolled too much
sullen pagoda
yea
spice surge
People vastly overestimate how RNG outlaw is tbh
Assa has incredibly high variance as well
mint peak
My opener can vary like 15k DPS with fucking MA
Although even as Subt the Mutilate crits can fuck you
sullen pagoda
MA giving 50% crit was probably biggest troll of this expansion
spice surge
MA has a very small impact on the overall rng of assa
worldly iron
my assassination opener can either be 30-40k on a bad or average pull, or 50-60k on a good one
(highest one with bl of course)
spice surge
Its mostly that it feels bad to reroll a lot
But dispatch barrely does damage anyway
So it doesnt matter all that much
worldly iron
getting 2cp with MA mutilate makes me giga sad
spice surge
But looking at the standard simc profiles. We can see that outlaw variance is 5.2% and assa variance is 3.8%
strange python
getting 1 cp with ma mutilate
spice surge
Sure, thats a big difference, but assa is among the highest speccs in the game
standing infront of the boss
worldly iron
by the way I of course meant not critting at all with MA mut
strange python
outlaw variance is extremely overstated due to the ability to roll 5 buff rolls
if you remove that, outlaw variance drops
so comparing the two
it's unwise to compare without recognizing that outlaw variance statistics are flawed
languid ore
The bottom end of outlaw will always be around 5% because you'll always have crit or 2 buffs
And sure there are pulls that you'll have a juicy high number with 5 proc
worldly iron
let's talk more about assassination and less about outlaw 
stable pine
MA is the go to trait for ST
timber swan
Ss
stable pine
Yes
worldly iron
MA is talent
timber swan
Kk
stable pine
I mean talent
worldly iron
the go to talent is whatever sims the best for you with your current gear, more or less
but yeah, MA is better in general for ST
oh and yeah, especially if you don't have SS
fossil helm
Is assa competitive in m+? What traits do you guys recommend? Right now Iโm trying 3 SS and 3 NP, Iโm not really sure how to balance aoe and st... do I need some echo in there? Or Scent or dd?
lost horizon
NP is an ST trait
EB is your strongest option for AoE
SS for ST/cleave/some priority dmg
TTK for ST+priority dmg
Sin on higher keys can keep up with or even outperform outlaw in some situations
fossil helm
I see how do you like to balance and blend that for m+? I have all of those somewhere. Iโm experimenting with ss np for boss damage and smaller pug pulls atm but Iโm also new to rogue
lost horizon
In low keys sin might struggle a bit, mainly cause the AoE shines when sustained
But generally stuff like NP and DD should be avoided
mint peak
You need a separate set for M+ as Assa or spend a lot of gold reforging. If you're trying to mix and match raid and M+ traits you're gonna be better off just going outlaw
lost horizon
Since they provide 0 AoE increase
TTK is unique because some people will use it to funnel damage into a priority target during AoE
But that's a pretty niche set up
fossil helm
Would triple echo and scent be ideal m+?
zenith gust
whats the best horde race/racial for rogues?
lost horizon
Scent doesn't really get played a lot, it's usable but you gotta run around rupturing a lot of shit to get value out of it
For pure AoE 3EB 3SS is the go-to
zenith gust
m+ mainly
royal lantern
probably belf cus of aoe dispell/1%crit or pandaren cus of foodbuff and incapitate on a 2min cd for a ''oh shit''interupt i gues
royal lantern
derp sorry
tropic ocean
aoe interrupt was so NICE
pulsar goblet
But still probably the best
royal lantern
it was broken and its good that its gone
tropic ocean
h8r
pulsar goblet
Yup
royal lantern
its still always belf ok
tropic ocean
but dungeon design was terrible ๐
royal lantern
horde is and will always be the generic elf faction, when the zandalari hype dies down you will see more belf again
tropic ocean
but with the dungeon design of bfa
belf still has high value with all these purge mobs
royal lantern
yeha, its still ridicolous(too)strong, but not the bullshit that the aoe interupt was
fossil helm
With triple echo do you run hidden blades in m+? What about the first 2 tiers for talents? Mp and sub? With ss
royal lantern
MP is not that good in bfa
it only boost your WEAPON poison, not all poison dmg, and in bfa you dont do 99%of your dmg with poisons like you did in legion
you should still take EP cus you still do finishers
visual quartz
Simmed myself and finally MA is simming higher. So confused about why 3s of big crit every vanish cd is better than the huge overpowered garrote
spice surge
Because the garrote isnt huge nor overpowered
royal lantern
its a boosted garrote vs (hopefully) 1vendetta+TB boosted crit envenom, crit mulitate, crit envenom
visual quartz
yeah getting no crit TB and a 3pt mut during MA window is crushing hah
but still works
mint peak
try 2CP mut
visual quartz
I've seen it, secretly hope the pull is a wipe when it happens
radiant nest
So I was going to main outlaw because people say it's better for m+ and raiding, is assassin fine? Outlaw has good aoe, but my st seems low compared to other classes, what should I do? I'm around 370 ilvl
I'm trying to compare them I want more opinions
I feel energy starved allot as assassin and outlaw, once I get more gear does it feel better? My haste is like 10%
vestal wren
assassination is better for raiding
outlaw is overall better for m+
assassination is still very strong in m+
radiant nest
I don't really want to play two separate sep specs :x
vestal wren
if you want to play sin, play it
its good in m+ but will peform worse esp. in lower keys
in high keys both become very close
spice surge
^ Just play what you enjoy the most, both specs are incredibly strong atm
mint peak
At 370 you're prob gonna want to play whatever you end up with better azerite for until you have enough gear that you can make the choice between which you prefer vs. which is more effective
vestal wren
with 370 you want to get gear, gearing is usually fairly fast
you wont peform extremely good reguardless of spec
mint peak
Getting good azerite isn't very fast unless you're getting carried in full heroic clears and some mythic bosses
vestal wren
you get 385 azerite from worldquest and 400+ itemlvl from m+
once you are not extremely bad from itemlvl you can just pug the first mythic boss and bonusroll there for 2x chance of a 415 head one
with decent itemlvl you can also pug heroic and get 400 ones, chances are not terrible ppl can trade it
mint peak
Yes and you're likely going to end up with 1 or 2 azerite pieces that are much better for one spec than the other
vestal wren
the head from first boss is bis
so you only need 2 other ones
chances you will get sth good for either in the other slots are high
polar prairie
What traits should you stack for max dps?
vestal wren
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
polar prairie
Thanks!
vestal wren
there is also a list with the pieces on the site
vestal wren
if its for the raid, its mainly bc. of how versetile the trait is
its one of the best st ones and scales so well with more targets
spice surge
It really isnt close to being one of the best ST traits anymore
Its okay, but not one of the best
SS that is
But yeah, its very good for cleaving
But for assa there really isnt a very good "all around" setup, you just need too varying traits for m+ and raids so you just have to try to get two setups
candid jasper
What are you running this week for m+?
near pilot
no matter what spec people choose, you're going to need a set for m+ and a raiding set
spice surge
Not outlaw ๐คท
near pilot
stats are different tho, and DS is less than optimal
spice surge
No and no?
mint peak
Lol...I mean based on what. You always want Crit Vers and 2 or 3 DS
near pilot
i always sim for more hste in ST and crit in aoe, but i dont wanna get into too much OL here wrong channel
frail path
Starting with a rogue, not much experience with WoW, lvl 1 ofc. Hope to learn to play this class and assa is the way to go in the beginning (questing).
shy dust
are you asking if assa is the way to go for leveling?
Outlaw and Sub are usually better when it comes to leveling
frail path
But I've read on Ravenholdt "Assassination is seen as the go to easy mode spec among all classes." And because I have 0% experience I thought this was the way to go.
spice surge
Just play what you think seems fun, dont focus so much on what is easy or powerful
candid jasper
Are people going for 3x EB this week? I seem to be doing a lot more usefuldamage with 3x SS this week
strange python
!affix
prisma monolithBOT
Affixes: Fortified - Sanguine - Grievous - Reaping
tropic ocean
rn im doing 3x ss 1x ttk 2x eb and its very good for me so far
3x eb probably higher overall tho
heavy skiff
fossil helm
Is engineering helm good for m+?
strange python
not bombs
rigid mango
It's ok, but wouldn't reccomend if you can go with traditional set ups isntead
languid ore
You can use your mythic + setup for like 3 raid bosses imo
For outlaw and the rest sin
fringe parcel
(relatively new to assass pve) is the ravenholdt rogue guide up to date in terms of rotation?
sturdy python
Yes, you can check out the wowhead guide by Mystler too
fringe parcel
ok, thank you
solar rose
sounds accurate, sockets are worth a lot generally
civic helm
My 385 rings with socket were worth more than my 425 footbomb at some point
Still use the 425 cuz that stam
warm geode
is a dps gain to go out of jaina and dot balista so u can have all gcds used inside tb? ( 3 envenon and mutilates) , i mean dps gain on jaina, i dont care on overall
doting for energy regen, just to be clear
muted jacinth
usually ranged will nuke it pretty quickly so ive never done it
odd rampart
hey have a few questions that I was wondering if someone could field: 1. can I use TB at 4 CP? 2. there seems to be a few pillars of the assa rotation that you have to work around so to speak. is it more important to a. get as many mutliates in envenom windows b. get as many envenoms in a TB window or c. have as much uptime on EP as possible? I've been playing a lot of assa lately for raid and I keep getting the feeling that these three things conflict with each other and I have no clue which is the most important
cunning galleon
Is EB x3 worth getting ?
warm geode
@odd rampart u can even use tb with 5cp
and is dps gain
assuming caping energy for dat
and not delaying tb
warm parcel
You can achieve all points above if you plan enough
But tb on cd
And if you prepped for that tb, getting multiple envenoms with ep up happens naturally
visual quartz
cloaking first jaina ring, is cloak back up for transistion? assuming it would be, as the go to interupter.
nimble tartan
it will be yes
tropic ocean
@visual quartz y
i always cloak 1st ring
and then use cloak to soak frozen shit in intermission
visual quartz
yeah since getting to jaina is kinda tough Im desinated to blow cloak and kick which is fine. sweet
tropic ocean
if your guild has problems with intermission
might want to try the stack on boat tactic
round harbor
What does that entail?
Rogue just sit on boat or everyone?
We just started prog this week
golden relic
u stack on boat and wait for images to respawn basically
and heal through it and kill iceblocks
marble elm
Stacking on boat to skip intermission is incredibly stupid
arctic night
^
tropic ocean
you make 4 groups
2 groups get frozen
other 2 clear
then switch
until intermission is over
tropic ocean
thats your opinion
arctic night
Doing it the proper way is much better
tropic ocean
yet its really effective
marble elm
Itโs going to make your prog extremely annoying if you have to spend an extra 2 minutes every pull waiting
I mean you can do whatever you want but learning the phase is most likely going to save you time in the long run
tropic ocean
doesnt make sense but oki
marble elm
What?
You are afk for like 2 and a half minutes every pull waiting for the intermission to be over
Every single pull
You afk
arctic night
Proper way to do it is to make groups, left and right. Then you have a hunter call for where the adds are . Like: 4-1, 2-3, 5-0 etc
tropic ocean
"proper" way
arctic night
When its 5-0 everyone goes left or right depending on which side there is 4 adds, on a 4-1 u take ppl from the right group over to left so there is 6 on the right
tropic ocean
i guess proper way is doing what you makes you kill the boss
which that boat tactic did for a lot of guilds taht struggled hard on midphase
arctic night
I havnt seen any kill vids using the boat thing
only seen a clip of someone doing it
tropic ocean
some guilds even live streamed it
marble elm
Its just a waste of time
tropic ocean
or at least that how we learned of it
arctic night
Have you even killed Jaina by any chance?
nimble tartan
lol
tropic ocean
still progressing it
arctic night
Its a clever use of game mechanics, that really isnt worth it ๐
tropic ocean
its just so sad that theres always this kinds of trashtalk
always black and white
if u struggle midphase its a good strat
simple
if u dont struggle midphase then u dont need to do it anyway
arctic night
Im pretty sure every guild struggles with intermission
tropic ocean
its not much different to the def cd slt mother strat
stuck knoll
I don't think I could take another boomkin soaking orbs
nimble tartan
tbf its a bandaid to a problem that can come up in the future past this tier if your raiders are having issues so bad in intermission that you choose to skip it entirely
tropic ocean
wellthen you need to reprogress
but taht can happen to any strat
what if blizzard fixes off tanking elemental
u didnt waste anything
marble elm
If it didnโt add so much time to each pull I wouldnโt advise against it
nimble tartan
intermission lasts like what 30-45 secs
stuck knoll
In the end it wasn't up to me or likely Ausgelebt
tropic ocean
nah more
marble elm
Yes
stuck knoll
The RL decided
marble elm
The add cast is 2 minutes long yea?
tropic ocean
around that yes
round harbor
Is it a meme if it works?
cobalt gyro
37k overall in a scuff FH 18
golden relic
imagine argueing against a tactic that your guild doesnt do that you are not affected by 
sullen pagoda
its not a tactic its straight up exploit but hey blizz too busy firing employees to ban anyone ๐คท
bronze kelp
Hm... Only 37k with an aoe boosting talent? Your pulls seem to be not that good ๐
@cobalt gyro
stuck knoll
Any more opinions on the boat strat can go in #wow-general
fallen bay
is it worth to use fan of knives on 2 targets ? seems to me multilate is more reliable for CP on 2 target
spice surge
If you have EB traits its 2 targets.
If you have none of the traits i mention here then its 3 targets
If you have DD's its 4-5 targets (depending on how many you have)
Those are the threshholds when you use fok
fringe current
Hey, could i get some hel
Help reviewing some assasination logs
They re from an apply to my guild
Mostly looking for rotational mistakes , as im already going trough the rest
strange python
My advice, care less about his logs but moreso how he feels when you talk with him.
sullen pagoda
Hes not recruiting for social guild
tropic ocean
he often overwrites buffed garrote and uses toxic blade too little, has not the best dot uptime, overcaps combopoints (a lot) and doesn't use flask/food on all bosses, <90% uptime on garrote/rupture is bad, wastes trinket usages by trying to always line them up with vendetta I guess (usually good but not if u only use ur trinket 3x instead of 5x)
cba to go in depth and see why but if you are recruiting 8/9m exp player it should be your effort ๐
strange python
ah
tropic ocean
just an overview to precisely see why you need to go indepth maybe his buff uptime is bad cuz he needs to do extra shit or stuff idk
rigid mango
idk like 60% Tb seems way low
tropic ocean
hes overcapping combopoints a lot as well
rigid mango
aye
idk when I got recruited
they checked how much i used defensives
not just dmg logs
fringe current
Im not asking for a "carry" on log analysis im just honestly not knowledgeable enough about the spec
sullen pagoda
Wowanalyzer isnt really that good cuz of fight downtimes and shit
fringe current
Hence why i needed help with spec specific analysis
Deaths, personals and overall mechanics i can go trough
@tropic ocean
strange python
Specific spec analysis is so hard to give tho, since you dont know what happend during said fight. And what his assignment was
Not everyone is simply DPS whoring, some take on jobs that hurts your dps/rotations and whatnot
tropic ocean
it gives some overview tho
if u have terrible cp/energy usage and terrible dot uptime on every fight
its not an assingment problem
fringe current
Yeah
strange python
For sure. But thats why i said focus more on what the person says when you talk with him rather than his log parses
strange python
Ask him about it, and see what he says
fringe current
I will, i mostly wanted to be informed before a voice interview
tropic ocean
other than that he doesnt seem to die a lot either so
maybe hes jsut playing too safe
royal lantern
w8, im confused
strange python
And i rather have a person playing too safe, than someone playing reckles for numbers
tbh
royal lantern
using plumage and not using on cd with vendetta?
tropic ocean
hes been using gcb
royal lantern
oh, just saw sorry
tropic ocean
plumage is no prob since it has same cd
royal lantern
well, using gcb in raid is not that good imo
fringe current
There is such a thing as "too safe". Not fucking up is fines but there are number thresholds
tropic ocean
@royal lantern at least not if u dont make usage of it
but yeah i prefer plumage too cause you never know which pleb puts shitunder ur feet
royal lantern
gcb is only slightly better when you use it on cd and have the full buff uptime
thats my problem with it
strange python
Well Stonethunder, what type of guild is this person applying to?
That also matters tbh
fringe current
Were on jaina currently and we are usually ranked 600-700
But we dont push for ce
strange python
Ye well, is it a guild aiming to be top100 or is it a guild aiming to get CE whatever rank
Those 2 differs alot, in the quality of players you need to achieve your goals
tropic ocean
just invite him to hc or mythic reclear
and see him perform
will probably save time
fringe current
Ce in a fairly good rank
strange python
Had a guick look at him, and it looked like he had been apart of the firstkills in his current guild. So they atleast seemed to think he was worth bringing to progress
tropic ocean
when I first applied to a ce guild, i had 4 bosses xp and they just put me in reclear first 4 bosses against their main raid rogue and
yeah ๐
fringe current
Main issue is that i run a fairly small roster by design, and melee spots are tights so i just wanted some extra info
strange python
And he got himself to 8/9, playing the way he did. He isnt a major fuck up dude by the looks of it
fringe current
Yeah
strange python
Small rotational/tips can be adjusted within time
solid nova
His rotational errors are certainly there
strange python
Hence, check what type of person he is and how he feels talking with him. And go from there
tropic ocean
@strange python well if you're raiding 8/9 you should at least put some effort to know what to do with your class
its a difference making bad decisions in the encounter
fringe current
Im not recruiting to be a learning ground
tropic ocean
than basically not knowing how to play your class
fringe current
It may sound rough but yeaj
solid nova
-Late vanishes in opener
-Not pairing vendetta and vanish
-Over capping quite frequently (Beyond that of SF procs)
-Vanish windows aren't utilized properly and he's overriding the buffed garrotes early
That's just the basics which are covered in guides. So irrelevant of the guild its factors to be pointed out
Its probably more beneficial for him to be here and using the resources rather than 3rd party advice 
rigid mango
When should you be reapplying when you have buffed garrotes?
tropic ocean
after last tick
rigid mango
ah ok
strange python
@tropic ocean thats true.
tropic ocean
i mean idk the guy but if u have 80-85% ish uptime on garrote and rupture on first 2 bosses if you are not dead
then idk what you are doing
its as patchwerk as the bosses can be
royal lantern
i gues some people drop the bleeds too ALWAYS get 2x envenom with tb?
wich is not good
tropic ocean
idk thats just so wrong
would be smarter to just delay tb a little bit if you are energy starved
or apply 3 cp rupture
strange python
@fringe current Do as you wish, but its harder to find people capable of not dying to random shit. Than finding people that can learn a rotation or two. ๐
tropic ocean
gotta find the right balance between not dying and doing dps
not doing doing terrible dpsis as bad as dying for good dps
royal lantern
or you just pool energy better and can use it on cd and still do 2x envenom ;P
fringe current
I find that systematic rotational issues often indicate a player who has put low effort in learning
Wich is a huge redflag for me
tropic ocean
but usually if you dont even bother to read a guide or check some other players logs youre not the kind of player you want for mythic progression anyways
90% of his issues are fixed by reading ravenholdt quick guide assasination
fringe current
I make a lot of mistakes myself, they happen and thats fine. But if he cant read a guide how can i trust him to even read up on notes we write for fights for example
strange python
Fair enough.
Luckily i wasnt the one applying to your guild, and got my logs torn apart in here ^^
tropic ocean
idk its not a bad thing to be underperforming if youre willing to improve
sadly nowadays everyone sees everything as offense and personal attack
if i do something bad in raid and someone points it out thats great
so I can fix it ๐ธ
solid nova
You can discuss your preference in guild recruitment in #wow-general
tropic ocean
sry sheriff
strange python
Holy moly those logs gave me an aneurism
cloud iris
tropic ocean
yes
strange python
He got hit by crush on opulence, soaked the tank debuff on conclave AND THEN tried to cloak it, got hit by fat flying frog
is that a magma trap mistrigger I see
His pisspoor rotation is the least of his woes when he plays like this on nearly every fight
vapid fiber
Hello, quick question is SS still the go-to trait for raid?
Because both in Ravenholdt and Icy Veins it's still depicted as the go-to, but then the sims tell a different story and almost every other sin rogue I inspect has a DD+NP build
rigid mango
It's a good trait
glass seal
SS for subterfuge and DD with master sin
rigid mango
Especially if you're a nelf, paired with sub it's very good
glass seal
SS has better dps on more than 1 target
rigid mango
But the DD/NP build with MA is generally beter
warm parcel
These are still the go to traits for *Exsanguinate*
vapid fiber
@warm parcel so I should pair SS with Ex?
rigid mango
^
vapid fiber
oh ok I read it the other way
what about traits like scent and twist, are they any good or can be skipped to focus on SS, DD and NP?
rigid mango
not for ariding
vapid fiber
for m+?
spice surge
I mean, twist is better than ss for st generally
But both of them are midtier, especially compared to dd and np
But as soon as you add another target which you can meaningfully do damage to, ss gets a lot better
vapid fiber
ok I'll rearrange the traits accordingly, ty for your answers
dark crag
Dd np for full st, add ss for cleave
lost horizon
If you're just trying to cheese parses SS has a lot of value on most of the earlier bosses
fallen bay
is worth switching zandalari from Belf ?
stuck knoll
Do you like the way Zandalari look?
fallen bay
yeah, but i like Belf Female aswell ๐