Even if you don't play around it
#assassination
vast forum
low junco
strange python
ye but higher sim numbers 
slim socket
why you dont it lines up perfectly with vendetta
forest jetty
will HB stack up during a trash fight? you just fok into envenom/rupture, right?
full pagoda
Hey guys, what traits are you using for this week's affixes in M+? I got 3EB + 3 SS but I have been told 1 NP is always good and that also scent might good this week, so I'm not sure what to do.
sterile iris
boys can i use a sword in offhand as assa without losing anything?
dark crag
No
sterile iris
unluko
bronze kelp
@full pagoda nope, NP is not woth using it in m+ also SoB is not the best choice, usually people run different combinations of EB/SS/TTK
heavy skiff
I run 3xss 2xeb 1xbbi
full pagoda
@bronze kelp Are you 100 % sure? This is the 2nd or third time the guy who gives me tips makes it wrong for me, even thought he is like 2.5k M+ player x.x. Also, considering I currently got no TTK traits in a combination of the others, is it still worth going 3EB+3SS
golden relic
Hardly never worth to run NP in m+ Aya
full pagoda
He says NP is really underestimated lol.
golden relic
I mean some people do it if theyve got nothing else to use, but its nothing to aim for
bronze kelp
but why would you choose NP ? the vendetta uptime in a dungeon is not worth it
golden relic
if u are talking what to aim for in m+ traits
bronze kelp
NP brings nothing on trash, except u prio dps on target down, but this will barely live the 20 secs
and on bosses on tyrannical, you can use vendetta one time normally
maybe 2
full pagoda
I've got pretty good choices and yes, I was aiming for NP cos basically it gives burst and good energy regen. on boss fights and when vendetta used? There's no other reason I guess.
bronze kelp
instead you could choose one of the traits i mentioned above and have much more value from it
eb -> great trash value , ss -> great overall value, ttk -> great prio burst +ST value
full pagoda
Sure, thanks a lot guys, I have always been in a conflict with his tips as it's easy to see why it isn't good but I was like, he prolly knows better. It sucks when people mislead you.
umbral fiber
what about NP over T Convenant in M+ ?
I could have either 2 Np or 1 Np and 1 T Covenant
full pagoda
1 np and 1 covenant I'd say
slim socket
go with covenant
forest jetty
will HB stack up during a trash fight? you just fok into envenom/rupture, right? <- anyone? how do you play HB properly?
spice surge
Hb provides the same damage if you spam and if you let it stack
Assuming you don't overcap the stacks
forest jetty
but it takes 2s to build up a stack, 2s sounds like a long time
vast forum
2s is 2 globals
spice surge
Although i wouldn't recommend running hb
vast forum
If u spam fok-envenom or smt, every fok is buffed 20%
spice surge
20% on two foks is the same as 40% on one fok
vast forum
Yea
It was a comment to his "2 sec is a lot of time"
Also, it's pretty good for when you have to cast other stuff and it stacks passively
Like 3 garrotes and rup in opener
Is at least 2-3 stacks
forest jetty
hm yeah
vast forum
Idk, i don't see many arguments against hb
I'm not saying it's 100% the best choice
But it doesn't lose any value with downtime, unlike the other 2
Any time you want to shroud, you just get 8-9 stacks
Anytime someone dies and your healer has to res you get stacks
You die and release to run back quickly, gain stacks
It is in every way better in the real world than on sims
stuck knoll
I think the main argument is if you're running it why nkt run outlaw
vast forum
I mean
forest jetty
cose i really really hate the rng factor in playing outlaw
vast forum
Pb is a passive 3-5% increase
Pb is extremely underwhelming and requires mobs to stand still and stacked
vast forum
Ct costs cp which can be used to rupture instead
Pb in sims is a best case scenario while hb in sims is a worst case scenario in reality
Ct idk
It's just not a popular pick in the current meta, at least according to seli
And i'm inclined to agree with him
stuck knoll
I'd say you'll probably see a lot more HB if Outlaw gets nerfed
vast forum
Also ct is 0 st value unlike the other 2
tropic ocean
ct is really nice for trash and trash buffed weeks especially
and for me and my personal experience it just outvalues the little st gain from poison bomb
but to teach its own
severe current
Ct doesn't trigger the energy gain, right?
tropic ocean
it doesnt yea
severe current
Wasn't sure
tropic ocean
basically just a nice aoe dps increase, on packs I just 3x garrote 1x ct then start spreading ruptures and fok spam
while ct already ticks on all mobs
vast forum
Your talent and trait choices will be impacted by your group comp, affixes, level and which dungeon it is
But i strongly believe ct is the worst overall option on the 3
Call it feelycraft but it has more downsides than the other 2
tropic ocean
idk its doing pretty good numbers for me and I dislike the rng of poison bomb
really enjoy having an on demand aoe dot
vast forum
It does good numbers at the cost of ruptures
cobalt gyro
CT feels worse and is much harder to get value out of, IMO
vast forum
You can't just look at ct dmg and ignore the fact that each ct cast cost you a full rupture and a potential pb
cobalt gyro
It's not worth it until there's a decent amount of mobs, and even then, you need to spend on ruptures until you're energy capped
vast forum
And they need to live the duration
cobalt gyro
There is a point where CT initial damage > envenom
vast forum
Like if you have 5 mobs and they're all 10% hp do you even cast ct?
cobalt gyro
But again, to get to the point that is worth it, you need lots of ruptures
vast forum
Yea but fok does more than that on high enough mobcounts
cobalt gyro
Yeah, especially with EB traits
vast forum
A single fok could outvalue a full ct with 3 eb traits
unborn gate
Exsang , is it single target or does it work on all targets with bleed?
severe current
How many targets does it take to make ct do more dmg than rupture? And even then you loose the energy regen and a global that, at the same target# would have been env for at least the buff, not to talk about pb or even ttk
vast forum
St @unborn gate
unborn gate
Oh okay
cobalt gyro
I could see an argument for HUGE pulls to run ct
vast forum
I would still consider hb better there
Cuz still some st value>0 st value
I just don't see it being better
cobalt gyro
At that point it depends what your group would need
vast forum
Maybe on really long living big packs
But if you are pulling massive, your tank needs to survive
So a high level key will not allow for such pulls and mobs don't live long enough on lower level keys
cobalt gyro
Eh. We did several 10+ mob pulls in underrot tonight
Comes down to if your tank knows when they can live or not
cloud iris
Wait hb isnt a meme anymore
tropic ocean
in high keys you pull big as well
double triple pack
on tyrannical even 4 pack
and for plain numbers @cobalt gyro ct > poison bomb, and rupture as well
(at least in trash heavy dungeons)
in overall dmg poison bomb makes up somewhat 4-5%ish while rupture is ~somewhat equal to ct 10~13%ish
spice surge
Keep in mind
That CT also removes a large part of your other finisher damage
So its not 5% VS 10%
tropic ocean
ofc not
spice surge
The only dungeon i think you could run CT in atm is freehold and if youre pulling really big
Its just not really worth it imo
tropic ocean
on most packs you lose out on 1-2 finisher
for using ct
but if you look on logged 20s where ppl used ct and compare it vs runs without ct
the dmg gain is superior
(as good as you can compare different players/runs)
@spice surge its not only freehold, its really fine for motherlode too or underrot
tropic ocean
not sure you would use ttk I guess theres more combinations that are fine
and even with ttk, it doesnt make ct trash
just check some motherlode/freehold/underrot logs from assas that used ct in higher keys
for motherlode on 18+ its even top talent from logged runs
cobalt gyro
If I had the traits to run ttk 3x i would for ML
spice surge
Oh m+ logs
cobalt gyro
It's not really the same kind of damage
tropic ocean
and top logged dmg run for motherlode is undäddy
can't compare top keys that are not logged
I mean why would many players on high scores/keys use it
when I mostly read that its not worth it
theres no black and white 😃
tropic ocean
I didn't sort it, I just let it show all logged runs 20+
tropic ocean
its his highest dps, highest keystone lvl for that dungeon that is logged
highest raw dps: https://prnt.sc/n7esjf
distant lava
the most important thing in ranking of m+ logs is the key lvl
vast forum
Sometimes, 20k st dmg is more valuable than 50k aoe
I mean, on the last 2 screenshots, top runs aren't running ct
So go figure
tropic ocean
I mean each player takes his own decision but from looking at logs all 3 talents are obviously a viable option
@vast forum yeah but there are several top 10 runs using ct
sullen pagoda
Its ML bosses arent that pain in the ass
tropic ocean
and its same for freehold too
distant lava
i'd argue 3rd boss is a good pain in the ass
vast forum
Let's make 1 thing clear
cobalt gyro
That poor 3hr long 22 lmao
cobalt gyro
I mean if you're running TTK traits you're going to be running TB
and if you're running TB
bronze kelp
lol in the last screenshot i found myself XD
distant lava
@cobalt gyro i didn't see that lol
bronze kelp
nice ^^
cobalt gyro
You're running PB.
vast forum
Based on math, experience and logic
tropic ocean
but where is the data to show that?
all I read is just personal opinions
logs clearly speak different
and also some days ago some of world bests assa rogues explained similar so
idk
vast forum
Ct is also a lot of pad dmg
spice surge
Where and what did some of the "world best assa explain similar"
sullen pagoda
"based on math experience and logic" so you are saying based on 2 personal feelings and 1 thing u didnt actually calculate
tropic ocean
like what data to base it on?
from all logged timed 21 freeholds
noone is using pb
but that doesnt mean pb is shit
vast forum
Idk, a lot of people don't log m+
sullen pagoda
I remember the good days when feelycraft was bannable 😂
tropic ocean
it just shows theres other viable options and u cant just say "use pb"
and you can only determine stuff on accessible data
and not "i feel like its better"
cobalt gyro
What I can say is if you're running ttk, you're running TB and PB
tropic ocean
if thats your opinion, fine
cobalt gyro
Because anything else just doesn't work with ttk traits
vast forum
21s can be completed suboptimally
tropic ocean
zZzZz
vast forum
This is like talking about arena comps at 2.1k rating and viability
tropic ocean
nah
bronze kelp
if you run ttk you would have more synergies of tb + pb
vast forum
Look at 24s, not 21s
tropic ocean
theres no logged 24s
cobalt gyro
I've timed a 21 with boss resetting at 1%
vast forum
Hmm why is that?
marble hemlock
well, you can run CT with ttk/tb, or even exsang+ct with TTK, but at that point youre not using the synergy that makes ttk such a high value trait for higher keys
sullen pagoda
@vast forum there is 7 total completed 24 freeholds can you not make a fool out of yourself
cobalt gyro
That's what i mean, seli
vast forum
I can not
tropic ocean
i never argued or said that you wouldnt use tb and pb with tk traits
im just saying ct is more than viable for higher keys
and logs prove it
cobalt gyro
If you're running ttk and not TB/pb, it's not playing the strength of the traits
vast forum
No1 said it's not viable
bronze kelp
sure its viable
tropic ocean
too have more accurate data theres just not enough top keys playing assa at all to make a good base on it
cause everyone is playing outlaw
sullen pagoda
obviously you can't if you think 7 runs is enough data to have accurate presentation for discussion
tropic ocean
thats just your assumptions
sullen pagoda
do you also put 7 iterations per sim combo when u sim?
tropic ocean
you can't base discussion on stuff that goes on in your head
bronze kelp
m+ logs are no representative data for statistics ...
sullen pagoda
jesus christ
vast forum
Exactly my point
vast forum
M+ logs are almost worthless
bronze kelp
that means not that the data is usefull
sullen pagoda
m+ logs are worthless but your "watch 24 keys only" is 10x more useless
vast forum
I'd rather base it on experience of the top players than m+ logs
tropic ocean
well one of the top assasination players notflawless is regularly using ct
bronze kelp
=1000 data sets is representative with same or similiar circumstances
vast forum
Good
bronze kelp
all three tier 7 talents are viable
sullen pagoda
@tropic ocean but did he run CT in 24 freehold Kapp
tropic ocean
😄
bronze kelp
but what you choose depends on what your group needs
cobalt gyro
I said that awhile ago
bronze kelp
if you got 2 aoe blasters, i guess you dont need a third aoe blaster
marble hemlock
theres benefits to each talent, obviously
if you need/want more AoE, go for CT. if you need/want more prio or synergy with TTK, go PB
tropic ocean
@bronze kelp that sadly totally speaks counter against current meta
where ppl use 3 aoe blasters
spring yoke
Cause its 18 keys? LUL
tropic ocean
im not talking mdi
bronze kelp
MDI is not meta
marble hemlock
and to quote flawless after i told him to play TTK in a key once:
-before the run: "is this a meme?"
-2min into the run "this is good, how?"
-10min into the run "youre a wizard"
bronze kelp
XD
golden relic
he wont admit that 
cobalt gyro
Do you prefer more EB traits with TTK or a mix of ss/eb?
tropic ocean
and currently theres a lot of heavy aoe blaster comps in top keys
marble hemlock
he had fun with it, screaming "im a subrogue now" foir the next 2 runs
tropic ocean
e.g. these chinese?korean? using ret double rogue for example
marble hemlock
in any case, saying the meta is 3 big aoe blasters is kinda disingenious when i can tell you of runs that were timed exactly because there werent 3 aoe blasters
its not as black and white
cobalt gyro
Why do you think some ppl are running ele sham, it's not because it has godtier aoe
marble hemlock
if we had this conversation a few weeks ago, one could counter your argument and "factual" basis by saying that the only timed ML23, which is arguably a trash heavy dungeon, was done with a 3TTK assa rogue that didnt play CT
cobalt gyro
It's usually coupled wiry some aoe blaster
marble hemlock
so its important to recognize that theres benefits and downside to all talent choices
tropic ocean
ofc
marble hemlock
and apply that knowledge to the current situation youre in to decide which one might be the best choice for you, individually
sturdy python
Also need to specify whether we are talking MDI blasting 18 meta or pushing 24+ meta
marble hemlock
but fact of the matter is, if youre running TTK, running TB+PB gives you more synergy
than TTK+TB+CT
tropic ocean
nevertheless when looking at the current leaderboards on highest keys played/timed the non heavy aoe blast comps are a minority
compared to the high aoe blast comps
spice surge
The major downside of CT is that it is makes a hard spec to play even harder, which is why pb is the goto recommendation when newer players ask
marble hemlock
its also barely better if you play a heavy TTK prio build. you usually end up with ~6% PB damage, in dungeons where you would normally get like 8-9% CT
bronze kelp
u have not only to have a look at the classes, but also on the talents and traits they are running
marble hemlock
and thats not counting the opportunity cost of running CT instead of PB and the loss of envenom damage
tropic ocean
@bronze kelp i know :p
marble hemlock
think of it this way: compared to season 1, nothings changed in regards to how keys are played. if sub didnt get gutted via the removal of shuriken combo, people would still play sub for highkeys
bronze kelp
just have a look at erebaws in musclebrahs team .. he runs triple single target trait, so he is not an aoe blaster per definition
tropic ocean
I do
and hes pretty much on par with dh
I mean not sure how we ended up here but aoe blast is clearly favoured this season
and backed up by first 5 pages of leader board
😄
marble hemlock
its the same as us running 1 or 2 EB cause theyre easy and strong AoE boosts, but not investing heavily into AoE itself
spice surge
Muslcebrah has also used 3DD, 1SS and 2NP with CT for tol dagor +24
bronze kelp
only for first boss
spice surge
Ye after first boss
bronze kelp
after that he went out and specced outlawl
spice surge
He swapped to pb
bronze kelp
XD
spice surge
N
marble hemlock
in that sense, CT definitely fits the bill. its easy aoe for little investment, compared to PB
spice surge
No he swapped to pb
bronze kelp
yes but that was before he went outlaw overall
spice surge
Na
marble hemlock
and keep in mind that the high-key pushing scene right now is not as competitive as it may seem
spice surge
It was "him trying assa out again"
tropic ocean
besides all that @cobalt gyro for people that ask what talent they need to use pb probably is the best answer since if they knew they didn't need to ask :p
spice surge
And then he came to the conclusion that assa is shit
marble hemlock
thats definitely true ausgelebt, i generally recommend PB first to keep the rotation a bit simpler, and once people are more comfortable with the rotation and gameplay in general, they can choose to play CT if it helps them time a key faster
and at the end of the day, thats an informed decision everyone needs to make by themselves
(id still disagree with the assessment that its only aoe blasters out there)
tropic ocean
not only, but highly favoured
marble hemlock
even outlaw has pretty significant prio damage. they dont have to gear for it, since it happens automatically by just playing 1 wits, but its still an important part of why theyre a valuable choice
tropic ocean
you basically see a minority besides rogue dh warri in the higher keys
cuz of the strong aoe
marble hemlock
its usually the flexibility to go either full aoe or have high st/prio damage thats valued so highly
and if the prio damage is strong enough, historically speaking its always been picked over big aoe
the only m+ time id consider to be an actual aoe blast-fest was ToS-era legion
and even there you ran warrior/subrogue/wl, 2 of which had insanely strong prio damage if they so wanted
arctic venture
guys what is more important, item level or better traits combination?
400 to 415
Kind have 3 x double dose one it.
1 nothing personal.
and 1 filthy transfusion.
Actualy I have 3 415 pieces.
all of it with double dose.
Shoulder with 1 nothing personal 2 ring.
they say NP do not stack
worldly iron
who are they
prime merlin
Damage stacks, energy regen doesnt
worldly iron
they are wrong because yes, damage stacks
strange python
Who wants 3xNP? Lol
arctic venture
soo ravenholdt must fix it on the guide
Nothing Personal: A great one point wonder as the energy regeneration portion does not stack with multiple traits.
solid nova
Thats correct though
strange python
The damage stacks the energy doesn't
rigid mango
It's still nuts for ST as a stacked trait
the first one is just valued way over the others
strange python
I know I know. But 3xOP inc. BBI. Is king
rigid mango
Check bloodmallet if you want to see for yourself @arctic venture
You'll see the first one being worth an insane amount
strange python
I had it all (only have 2xOP but I have BBI) proc at the same time yesterday. Omg it was insane
strange python
Ye... like I am lucky I have Spywarp. But then again I have gotten Spywarp 4 times in 4 weeks now so :s
rigid mango
I'm stuck at a shite chest
strange python
Inc the 1 I have so 5 x Spywarp
real bay
it's not totally shit tbh, catalyst has huge uptime, but yeah
rigid mango
I mean
real bay
at least it has OP
rigid mango
I don't like it because it's like having even more GCB's
real bay
y
languid ore
Why is 3xNP better when raidbot telling me 1 tc and blightborn infusion better
languid ore
I have 1 as well
rigid mango
1 TC could be better, but idk, depends on fight and how much uptime you can have
NP is guaranteed damage
real bay
I'd drop TC out of those
languid ore
2xDD 1xSS TC and BBI
rigid mango
hm I'd just run 2x NP instead of the TC if that's your choice
I mean
BBI is better than 2nd/3rd Np, right?
languid ore
I can go MA with 3xDD but I've been cheesin
rigid mango
Sims higher for me though
languid ore
SS in raids is just doing great
rigid mango
SS is sorta a flavour thing
strange python
That is my point kayZer. I am pretty sure that statement is false. It is Not the ideal setup so saying that is wrong
rigid mango
Also if you're a nelf it's even better
worldly iron
@arctic venture as stated earlier, damage stacks, not the energy regen they're mentioning in that text
strange python
It is a good setup, even very good but not ideal / optimal
dark crag
3dd 2np 1bbi 3op
spice surge
Yeah bbi is nuts when it proccs
But sometimes it just doesnt 😄
Last night i had 0% uptime on our champion kill
And this http://piclair.com/data/hogox.jpg on our stormwall kill lol
Still not rank 1 😦
dark crag
I reequip my azerites before raid, last night i raided with noazerites at all
For 2 tries
bronze kelp
lulz
dark crag
No gutripper, op, 1 dd and engi proc
arctic venture
@dry dawntaus well done.
strange python
@dark crag I ran Mekka with SS and MA.... missclick god.... sadly people can see it. I feel bad
dark crag
I had all azerite equiped but i had a dc and sometimes it stops working
First time that all were disabled
strange python
Ah... lol that sucks
marble hemlock
-irontide captains with ss+ttk+op
-gorak tul with ss+bbi+op
-vestments with eb+ss+heed
rigid mango
no bbi?
rigid mango
yeah I was wondering lol
rigid mango
so not even 1 eb?
cobalt gyro
You think 1 ttk would be worth?
rigid mango
Irontide with TTK + EB and then Vestments with TTK + SS?
That'd give me 2 TTK atleast
2 ttk 2 ss 1 eb 1 bbi
marble hemlock
well, thats one option
rigid mango
idk
marble hemlock
i just think that with the opportunity to run 2op and bbi, id probably prefer going all-in on the SS; play exsang
marble hemlock
can definitely give it a shot
but my perception is skewed since i only ran 3SS on TR as a nelf
and i cant even try it myself on live
so im not sure how much worse itll be on live
with only 1bbi and no nelf
marble hemlock
the 2ss2ttk1eb1bbi definitely sounds like a good middleground
leaves room for more flexibility
rigid mango
but 3 ss + nelf + exsang'd be better you think?
rigid mango
hm
I sorta wanna try it
Shouldn't lose anything from swapping to nelf tbh
how do you play exsang and nelf in that case?
I'm a velf atm
Can't be non elf/human
Honestly hav eno clue how to play exsang though
arctic venture
me neither
strange python
A dude in my guild has Ironhide, Gorak, Ceph. I told hon to run 2xTTK, 2xEB, 1xBBI, 1xSS, 3xOP. I Think that is godtier godtier roght
rigid mango
hm
I could reroll and see if I could get ceph
Toss some old crappy pieces
Grongpelt vest isn't really good for anything is it
arctic venture
@strange python that for m+?
rigid mango
Yeah it is
rigid mango
Swedish 
Is it even worth trying to roll for ceph?
Or is it just a better idea to wait for a guaranteed ceph?
strange python
Depends on a lot of things mate. Like what piece you have now. How much TR you have stockpiled and what you mostly wanna do with your rogue. Raid / M+ or both. But I want Ceph badly for both.
rigid mango
I do both, I've got good pieces already, aight pieces atleast
Lacking chest for raiding though
But hopefully getting it off of mekka reclear on sunday
strange python
Well Ceph is very strong for raiding so.... I would go for it personally :)
rigid mango
idk, I've got enough to RNG one atm
but I gues like, I get 2 or so pieces per raid
and normally finish 19~'s so what about 950 dust or so
Idk I guess I get 1 reroll per week, or another 5 weeks until a guaranteed one
lethal heart
spice surge
Well yeah. Thats around average
strange python
Not reclearing sucks. :( I want 425 dagger chance and the TR
hollow stone
Just kill jaina. Then you can reclear. Easy
strange python
Ye, well all 20 or atleast 18 needs to think it is easy.... rip
spice surge
It has 25% chance to procc without envenom, 64% with envenom
tender cedar
which loa buffs are the best for sin rogues singletarget?
glass seal
tribal mason
hey is it worth stacking overwhelming power? does it increase uptime or proc rate?
spice surge
With every trait in the game. Stats/damage/healing always stack, never anything else
tribal mason
makes sense, tyvm.
ripe geyser
So assa roggos, how do you feel about playing assa rn in dungeons when Outlaw is so strong? Literally puking over Outlaw playstyle
icy ember
why are you puking over outlaw
icy ember
i play asn in the raid and outlaw in M+, AMA
tropic ocean
@strange python assa is nice and competitive 😃
visual quartz
I dunno, Asn is more fun plus I feel like I always out dps outlaw on bosses even if im full aoe traits
quick cipher
i run sin for m+ 3xeb and can still do great single target so i have a good balance
reaping is fun with :0
havent played outlaw (aka combat) since bc
old knot
So 2xTTK, 2xEB, 1xBBI, 1xSS, 3xOP is good for M+? I've got the azerite pieces and wanted to try out assa. Exsang and CT for this?
hollow stone
Tb and pb imo. But the traits sound like a dream
bleak spoke
Yeah that looks gigabis
hollow stone
Tb and pb both have higher value when running ttk. Which is why i recommend them instead of xs and ct
hollow stone
Yeee
bleak spoke
It’s like 2:2:2 but better I think
hollow stone
Those dank bbi procs
old knot
4 bleeds? isn't there just garrote and rupture?
bleak spoke
4 of either garrote or rupture
hollow stone
He means spread 4 bleeds for energy regen, then fok i to finishers
bleak spoke
So you get 35+ energy/global
bleak spoke
If a pack has a prio target that’s what you tb
hollow stone
Yup
bleak spoke
Ideally you want to sink 4 envenoms into it during a Tb window
So you setup your 4 dots, tb fok (or fok Tb) envenom fok envenom fok env fok env whole Tb is up
hollow stone
Mmm 4 in a tb
bleak spoke
Then afterwards it’s like fok fok fok rupture fok fok fok rupture etc
Even without pulling enormous packs with a blightborne proc you’ll probably always get 4+ cp per fok
That’s hawt
hollow stone
Finally got my gorak's last night. Got a proc on pull. 49% crit, was a beautiful opener
Felt so good
bleak spoke
oof
https://i.imgur.com/uNqmVQc.png my setup right now w/pistoleer's and ceph jacket
hollow stone
I was in raid. I like that set up tho
bleak spoke
i think i'm gonna roll for a helm and try to get an EB SS or EB TTK one
cuz pistoleer's can also be SS EB
and run the meme pad build
hollow stone
Helllll yeah
bleak spoke
guild fell apart so no conclave chest though 
rigid mango
Just got mine yesterday, + my goraks this week
- crown
It's been a good week for pieces ngl
bleak spoke
yeah was wondering with 3ss 2 ttk wonder if you run exsang or tb
i miss playing 3 SS
those vanishes were sooo enormous
rigid mango
Yah
I mean I'm still on the fence
of buying a race change, going trip SS and exsang
With nelf
bleak spoke
garrote 1 garrote 2 garrote 3
rigid mango
nelf atm
bleak spoke
garrote 4 garrote 5 garrote 6
garrote 7 garrote 8 garrote 9
9 globals literally doing 180k apiece or something with 3 SS innit
maybe more
rigid mango
It's a good dicking
But at the same time
I'm really starting to like velf mini teleport
😦
rigid mango
Well
It's seemingly gonna get nerfed
I assume alteast
Since it's insane, not just for assa
bleak spoke
i mean they'll probably nerf the dumb bits of it involving cheesing mechs
if they do
rigid mango
but how tho
fossil helm
can i use a mace offhand?
choosing my pvp reward would like to still have a weapon for outlaw
inner plover
mutilate still requires 2 daggers i think?
fossil helm
That is correct, i chose wrong haha
pastel vault
had the sickest p1 rastakhan https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/TwKNBhvFVd9rc13x#fight=17&type=damage-done&phase=1 LOL
trail jewel
whats the reccomended pvp talent set up (all talents not just honor)
cerulean walrus
heady ore
Hey guys, was looking at some top assa logs and saw one that was using a Battle potion of intellect on the pre-pull and a Battle potion of agility in the fight. Is that a thing ?
solid nova
No, its not
vestal wren
probably a warrior alt 😛
dapper wraith
So I don't play a nelf, shadow meld is basically vanish? I thought I read a while back that it didn't trigger subterfuge?
lost horizon
It doesn't trigger subterfuge in boss combat
But you can use meld on trash in M+ to drop aggro and then go into true stealth
vestal wren
melt is vanish outside of bossfights
lost horizon
While in meld if you garrote you'll get the SS buff and CP
But no subterfuge multiplier (while in boss combat)
latent gazelle
Meld in boss combat should give you shrouded suffocation buff
desert vault
Think for Kings Rest this week it is worth giving up my 1x ttk for 1x NP or just stick with ttk?
frigid spade
so my sim was telling me to grab TC instead of NP on helm and NP instead of BI on shoulders but i feel like TC is largely overrated? is the 150-200 dps really worth it? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6LBuNTAd6XyVpUHkkX5yL1
i mostly do prog mythic raiding. i use a diff set of azzy for m+
simple rivet
mine says the same
I just do it, but I hardly play sin, so i'm interested to see what others say as well.
spice surge
Why didnt you link the sim with that then? But your current setup should be far better
Than using tc
Since your current setup is literally the BiS setup
keen elk
hello all. just came back this week after a 2 year break from the game and getting back into my guild's mythic prog next week and am trying to understand our azerite traits. doing sims im noticing that SS generally is better for cleaving while DD comes ahead in pure ST. i spent some time looking at logs and looks like most folks run 2-3ss and 0-1 DD. is that just a result of how many cleave fights exist and the lack of patchwork fights or am i missing logic behind why sims would pick one over the other
inner pecan
The only fights where SS is really required to parse well are Jadefire/Grong/Rastakhan, and maybe Champions to a lesser extent
You're correct in your analysis that DD/NP is Patchwerk-focused whereas SS is cleave-focused
spice surge
Its definitely not required on either of those bosses either way
Most of the "relevant damage" on those fights (besides jadefire) is ST
inner pecan
That's why I said parse
spice surge
And the SS cleaving part is somewhat pad
yeye not refering to you
I'd just recommend getting full ST traits (so DD and NP) if you want to be the as usefull as possible. Might consider getting some SS traits for bigger logs later
keen elk
so if im playing outlaw in m+ it's likely most beneficial from a progression standpoint (only 4/9) to run DD over SS until farm and parses become relevant? lol
oh exactly what you said
lol right on
thanks my dudes. i appreciate the help
desert vault
does any of the stuff on the bridge in KR request distract/sap to shroud?
inner pecan
No but distract is always useful especially for your group members who might not be super used to stealth mechanics
Don't think you can really sap anything anyways it's all undead
Basically there's never a downside to throwing a Distract it just makes things easier
zinc willow
quick question - Vendetta before toxic blade? And maximizing master assassin, should I be vanish @4-5 cp, envenom, mut, envenom? or follow normal rotation
spare dust
meager basalt
sup boys just tried olaw for past two weeks in m+ and i did same dmg ruffly as i was when i played assass, every1 still runnin elab planning, subterfuge, vigor, tb and bomb?
ruby oxide
What did you run in outlaw. It's pretty tough to keep up with assassin for overall damage
meager basalt
iim 1800+ io and i had 3 deadshot 1 wits 1 bb
in assass i run 2 ebs 3 ss then whatevr
assass way more consistent too
grand fossil
Hi all, Should I run both Plumage and Galecallers? Sims say yes, and I can easily pair Plumage with Vendetta, but do sims take into account the on Use delay that I would incur? Or should I just play safe and run galecallers with a 395 harlans instead?
ruby oxide
It's safe to run galecallers. it works really well if you can line it up with your second toxic blade, imo. But on very high movement fights it's probably better to swap it out and run the plumage/harlans
And @meager basalt that's what I've seen for ass in M+. if you're able to play more consistently with similar to better output as ass, definitely no reason to be a meta slave
meager basalt
yeah im not being a meta slave
i said hey why not try i fucking love rogue its the same class just diff spec
but really hate going from a consistent output too a rng king
ruby oxide
It took me a while to adjust to outlaw, but i've been pigeonholed. All my gear/forges, etc, have lined up as huge outlaw upgrades. Sim higher too and seem to parse better. I much prefer assassination for raiding, but the game chose for me.
meager basalt
i feel u
ruby oxide
I get a 420 Fist off grong and a 425 ring off jadefire in one night, and a 420 spyglass in my M+ chest the same week. I had no choice.
ruby oxide
Yeah. I actually was able to GIVE AWAY a 415 spyglass in a 15 siege the other night. Felt weird.
meager basalt
lmao pll would kill for tht
ruby oxide
I just opened trade and hit accept. I don't like to ask for gear, so I don't make other people ask me lol
I gave up on assassination when my guildmate got a 415 greeds and 420 amethyst wrists off our first opulence kill
meager basalt
yeah have been bent over and fucked by loot in game
405 main 400 offhand
still grinding tho gonna get it eventually
ruby oxide
Nah, you gotta stand by and watch your guildies' fresh 120 who got carried through a +10 last week get a 420 socket in their chest, while you continually scrap 400 gear infinitely
meager basalt
have done over 150 freeholds for my 415 dice
tribal mason
on mythic mekka is it worth dotting up the adds with a rupture
spice surge
The energy regen you get from dotting up another target amounts to less damage than the combo points you spend
(If the damage on the other target isnt relevant ofc)
strange python
also thorns
strange python
it only rly becomes worth it at like 4 targets iirc
buuut that's for fan spam
which is significantly less energy than mutilate
tribal mason
awesome tyvm
spice surge
?
Its not worth to dot another target for only energy
Regardless of how many targets there are
You dot for the damage primarily
spice surge
Well yeah, it does give energy
But if the damage on the other targets isnt relevant (ie conclave bosses)
Then its not worth, if damage to them is relevant, then its def worth
strange python
makes sense
..is my energy rate supposed to be 13?
cus I know it's sin but it feels abysmally slow
have 17% haste too
strange python
how horrible
is it a dps loss to.. do nothing?
as long as I don't energy cap?
.....is that the point of the spec?
dark crag
Assa does a ton of nothing
meager nebula
It's low apm for a reason
strange python
okay that doesn't answer my question @meager nebula
meager nebula
Sin would be nutty if it could do 60apm the way it is now
zinc willow
whats my goal during adds on mythic opu with a ruby? do i try to fan aoe?
dark crag
You do much stuff every 2 min, a bit stuff every 20 secs (tb required) and nothing inbetween
cobalt gyro
@strange python pay attention to TB cooldown
zinc willow
and just maintain normal finishers on the boss?
cobalt gyro
refresh dots (<15s when TB is almost up, don't bother)
strange python
if you're Ruby you're priority damage
cobalt gyro
think of it like a dot based sub rogue
you spend energy to avoid capping
and maximize burst windows
strange python
I've never played sub
like not once in my entire career since bc
but I get it now
I was just overthinking it
dark crag
You keep bleeds up, have cp, pool a bit, envenom while envenom/ep are up you muti to 4+ cp and pool again
cobalt gyro
remember, as long as you don't waste nrg by being capped, it's not lost dps
dark crag
Every 20 sec you use tb and pump as much 4+ cp envs and muti in as you can
At least 2 envs is the goal
meager basalt
remember to macro /slap into ur garrote
dark crag
Ma assa plays like legion dfa sub minus dfa + another dot
strange python
I macro /tricks on the other rogue on my garotte
assert dominance
anyway I understand
I was overthinking it, trying to get as many casts out
neither of the specs I'm really good at have burst windows
not with any management, anyway
desert vault
how much of the bridge on KR can you skip or is it a bad idea to skip it cause its just messy?
jovial adder
Holy shit boys, I literally just walked up to the TR vendor, and he said you should probably save for that TR piece you want. I looked him right in the eyes and snacked up my Cephalohide Jacket from his lifeless hands
cobalt pelican
random question, does venemous wounds give energy back if creeping venom is on the target (the pvp talent)?
marble hemlock
you mean if CV is up but no deadly/crippling poison?
in case that was the question, no it doesnt
you need an actualy poison
so either crippling, wound or DP
tight meteor
thoughts on 420 gcb vs 400 plumage?
feel like im not getting super efficient uptime on gcb
for jaina specifically
south pike
Can you guys help me analyze my logs and do better? i think a big issue i am having is not pooling energy for my Toxic Blade window
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/fPL9YahRmWKjGtrx/
cobalt pelican
yeah that was the question sorry, thanks
lusty narwhal
@tight meteor too much novement on jaiana, Id settle for plumage
glossy kestrel
snacked it from the ethereal, eh? no snatching here.
@red zealot what is the question w.r.t. 3rb 3ttk?
timid cloud
What's good Elaborate Planning % uptime?
glossy kestrel
uptime doesn't matter, what you do with it is what matters.
how many env/muts you get in your EP window
timid cloud
Oh I see.
glossy kestrel
that said, 40% is about average for a raid boss
red zealot
if it worth running or just roll back to outlaw
like to mix it up for other keys besides just outlaw
glossy kestrel
you probably have more m+ experience than me, but from what i gather from this channel, it's fine. ttk is for burning priority targets. SS with subt is more preferred for cleave.
bronze kelp
on m+ i got 60% uptime over the whole dungeon inkl downtimes out of combat, if i read my logs correctly
glossy kestrel
edited for clarity
bronze kelp
😃
can someone explain this? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/JCQdpcmHkRYM4haL#type=auras&fight=last&ability=292361&source=5
did i really have such an uptime on paku buff ?
dont think so ^^
civic palm
bronze kelp
hm.. didnt look for that ^^ but what is the other entry for ?
timid cloud
Strange, I thought WoWanalyzer would show my EP windows, but it isn't.
stone crescent
What do you guys think of 2 SS 2 DD 1 NP 1 TC? SS DD seems like a strange mix but it's what rngesus has given me
shy dust
Anyone have any info on how in a sense “good” wowanalyzer is for trying to improve yourself?
bronze kelp
dont know if the assa spec is fully supported, but in the past it was a good tool to see where you can get better. But always have in mind to not take it 100% correct. cause uptimes etc are generic for all encounters, so heavy movement things are not calculated correctly e.g.
the other way would be to compare yourself with logs of top players, which results in the same thing but is way more work, but teaches you how to read logs 😉
shy dust
Yeah it said I was wasting a bit of my toxic blade combo points
But using it at 5 CP is fine right?
worldly iron
ya
bronze kelp
yes its fine
high siren
druids simming so high, I struggle to get to 26k while a gmate boomy is reaching 30k
strange python
Boomy is very nice ye but remember it is 5 min Patchwerk. Meaning they stand still for 5 min and can cast on every GCD. You also sim standing still but as a rogue you can move, a bit, and still do your Patchwerk simdps
tropic ocean
@shy dust what really helps me is looking at top players logs and watch the replay to see movement
Movement decisions greatly improve your dps aka when to move early and when to maybe redot/envenom more and move late - theres many situations where you can actually use cloak as an offensive cd (if youre confident) e.g. not moving out of ring of frost for example
high siren
yeah I know @strange python , but still 😄
strange python
Like so got super lucky with my bomb number on Mekka for example. I could dot up, run to the spot with the bomb and drop it. Then run back with sprint before I even hit Energy cap again. My number was one of the closest ones ;) but still
plain cairn
hi guyz ! Comin back to assa since i played outlaw since bod.. and now all the azerite is messing with my head so i come to you.. wish would be the best azerite trait setup for m+ ? D’you tweak something for fort vs tyra ?
Dont mind the french hehe
strange python
I would personally go TTK /EB on shoulders instead of SS/EB. And then I would go SS/TTK on head.
So total is 2xSS, 2xTTK, 2xEB
real bay
^
plain cairn
Ok ty !! And TB/PB ?
In terms of stats, crit mastery ? How mucj haste is good?
Much*
meager basalt
my sim to about equal currently 27% crit 33% mast
tropic ocean
Your crit is low for m+ be sure to use the correct simprofile instead of patchwork
strange python
I never sim for M+. It over values ST too much and cannot take into account all unpredictable variables.
With 2x2x2 (ttk/ss/eb) so as high crit as possible. Low Haste as possible and then the rest Mastery
Why 8% it is not like you will feel any difference at all. I have 4% even on Tyranical and the crit carries me on ST anyway
tropic ocean
dungeon slice is still in beta might not be as accurate, 27% crit is very low I currently use 34% unbuffed
meager basalt
what do u sim for m+ then?
tropic ocean
You want high crit/mastery for m+
meager basalt
if urnot using dungyslice what are u using for ur sims
actually?
ok ill test it out
strange python
I never sim M+ why would you? Just go Crit /Mastery
meager basalt
weird ive never heard tht b4
tropic ocean
i use stacked bosses, 5-7 to get somewhat better overview for statweights and using 10.000 iterations
Dungeon slice tells me haste is best but from personal experience the more crit i got the better were my results
marble hemlock
multitarget patchwerk for 40-60sec is still not an entirely accurate representation of an aoe trashpull, but its the closest we can do
dungeonslice includes a 2min bossfight and some smaller trashpulls
which is why youll still see haste on a fairly high value
meager basalt
im boutta try this out
tropic ocean
Most part of the dungeon consists of multitarget aoe so yeah
tacit lance
Question regarding galecallers boon vs lustrous golden plumage:
Simming myself puts galecallers ahead, however on warcraftlogs plumage seems to be used far more often. Is this a case of my stats being way off the average assa rogue or ppl making the judgment call that having to stand in the „puddle“ just isn’t worth it?
lament dove
probably the latter
meager basalt
yup mastery n crit
about same
i will say
haste is much lower
so this makes a 415 shrine ring better then 400 hast/mast socket
tropic ocean
@tacit lance is highly fight dependant if you cant fully stand in the buff gcb drastically loses value compared to plumage which has the buff active even while you move - e.g fights like jaina, stormwall, rastakhan where you need to move a lot
strange python
77k 
tacit lance
Aight ty @tropic ocean
real bay
simming 6 targets 1min isn't that common nor useful , can't go wrong with crit mast
velvet comet
always refresh them when they <30min 😛
strange python
I had 2xdd too
velvet comet
anyone good with logs?
solid nova
Link them 😄
velvet comet
general logs are decend but ilvl logs are kinda crap so ive been wondering if im doing something wrong to not get the full potential out of my gear or if its just fight length and stuff
sullen pagoda
Ilvl logs are irrelevant
velvet comet
well i wasnt sure, it just seems like other rogues with my ilvl perform better thats why i wondered if i make any mistakes
solid nova
There's definitely some smaller errors looking at your log
TB into Rupture etc is lost uptime during the window
Could have used second pot with other cds
velvet comet
well, ive read somewhere that u just should use tb on cd always and cant allow rupture to fall off
strange python
just rupture before tb
you know when it's coming
it's a super low apm class
have rupture with 3 or more cp up directly before the tb window and you'll be fine
velvet comet
hmm thats true
strange python
just reverse that order and ur gucci
solid nova
Small benefit for a bit of a stronger tb window
I mean its a 90+ grong long so it'll literally be fine tuning
strange python
grong long 
solid nova
I stand by it 
Your second pot usage could have been better
And you only got half value out of 3rd vendetta, but thats a kill time thing
Well, like 12 seconds out of it.
velvet comet
well i honestly sometimes forget about 2nd pot unless the raidlead calls it 😦
solid nova
I usually have pot WA, and poisons 😄
2 things i would forget all the time if zoned out
velvet comet
i just removed all my wa because i had huge fps drops and diddnt know where it comes from 😄
solid nova
Doubt its the WAs tbh
strange python
depends on the WA
velvet comet
some1 in guild told me it was the wa for him
solid nova
Should disable everything and re-enable 1 at a time
And wait to see what prompts the drop
strange python
some are very intensive if they're calculating really bad things during every frame actions
there's 1 WA in particular I don't remember the name of
but I know people had a lot of problems with FPS
solid nova
But to reiterate your original concern
I wouldnt worry remotely about ilvl logs
They arent a good gauge for anything tbh
velvet comet
well i have drops when theres alot of mobs like big trash pulls, 1st boss, the beginning of p2 on jaina and m+ on reaping i get like 5 fps lately
sullen pagoda
yeah someone can be 410 ilvl with 11 sockets simming higher than a 420
solid nova
Or equally you can have zero gear and parse high because of lack of logs with that level
Means very very little
sullen pagoda
or if you are in higher range of ilvl 417+ you are competing against what 50 rogues max which isnt accurate representation of performance
strange python
I can literally drop 5k dps by wearing the same ilvl gear
strange python
Once I hit 48 I stopped doing WQs lil
velvet comet
i mostly just do worldquest when im stoned thats why its so high 😄
sullen pagoda
i stopped doing anything
solid nova
Like you also could argue
velvet comet
and idk those paragon boxes are like my main gold income for me
solid nova
You've only got 3 sockets
So that'll help too
At a brief glance, TB windows could be refined, 2nd pot remembering (WA), kill timings for better CD alignment and sockets
velvet comet
btw how did u filter it that u see my skill usage?
strange python
literally just get lucky and don't be unlucky with that last one there 
click your name
click spells
solid nova
So open the log yeah, click your name
strange python
or casts rather
then you can change it between timeline and the other one that's also really helpful
velvet comet
ah ty
tough skiff
on reaping whats dps optimal rupture some adds or envenom?
velvet comet
i always rupture some for energy reg
after depends if u play with crimson tempest
on 3+ mobs or reaping i always start with ct tho, after rupture
and on big reaping pulls when u have ct and a few rupture up im not really sure its worth finishing beside keeping elaborate planning and envenom buff up if u have 3x echoing blade
royal lantern
use envenom too kill a priority target faster when all bleeds are out
strange python
:o gz
tropic ocean
now I just need 415 gorak tul/gold tasseled only got them on 400 😄
rigid mango
Got my spymasters yesterday to finish off my raiding set, and got both crown + conc chest on wed raid and goraks last week
I'm in favour with the rng gods I think
velvet comet
i got 4x shoulders of sanguine monstrosity before i got gorak tul finaly 😦
tropic ocean
sucks to extend id all week
velvet comet
they prolly on 400 still better than most of the 415 tho
rigid mango
What, goraks?
velvet comet
yea
tropic ocean
could be yeah
wicked kernel
Quick question, is it worth using a 3 or less CP envenom when toxic blade is about to fall off?
tropic ocean
3 good traits
velvet comet
3 bis traits*
velvet comet
raid
rigid mango
I assume that they'd be better than most shoulders for raiding that don't have dd np
rigid mango
Well ye
velvet comet
im lucky i got 3x eb and 3x ss for m+
velvet comet
but sadly as assa rogue u still straight get kicked on fortified with randoms lol
rigid mango
Well yeah
velvet comet
i would play outlaw if i had some gear for him
rigid mango
But might aswell play outlaw if ur running that
Outlaw is so insanely easy to gear tho
raven osprey
never got kicked even if I would have, most dps are behind me in trash packs
assa rogue is totally fine even in fortified
velvet comet
i get kicked alot, even tho i end up with like 28-30k overall usually depends on group
rigid mango
Also ur a rogue, most parties need a rogue
velvet comet
and got 1.8k score
raven osprey
3EB, 1 TTK, 1 SS, 1 EH (yeah cant better trait so far)
tropic ocean
@raven osprey its just the random pug meta slaves