legit gigatilted earlier cuz i forgot and couldn't find a kick
#assassination
bleak spoke
sonic bridge
@vestal wren Ty
vestal wren
setting spellqueue window to low can even be harmfull, this was the rule for dfa back in late legion :
marble hemlock
basically, with a queuewindow of 200ms, you can input the next ability while you still have 0.2sec of your GCD left, and itll immediately use that ability once the GCD is ready
winter gale
So if I have 47 solid internet that is not jumping but stays in that range, likee 46-53 max, and I spam keybinds. What should I press not to fuck up my rotation.
marble hemlock
if you smash keyboard, 150 should be fine for you
winter gale
@bleak spoke YES!
vestal wren
my rule of thumbs is at least 20 above your ping (if you have stable internet)
solar rose
I smash my keyboard 😃
marble hemlock
its just a matter of trial and error really
winter gale
And I play like that fuu
bleak spoke
usually on lust pull during first bits of vendetta
timid cloud
YEAH RIGHT @bleak spoke I’ve had that before too.
bleak spoke
and only then
golden relic
you are a rogue ofc u smash your keyboard and run around the boss in a circle for more dps no??
bleak spoke
but still really really frustrating
timid cloud
I thought I was crazy
marble hemlock
put 150, see if you still have issues with "changing your mind" as to what ability to use and the queuewindow still executing the older input
if that happens, lower it
timid cloud
Being the only one that it happened too, I play on 30 ping.
cobalt gyro
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/d2HuxzkryeUj8agqvPssW i can't even get 26k 
marble hemlock
@golden relic nah, i use a button once every second and just queue, more relaxed gameplay
cobalt gyro
it's rly just shit azerite
cobalt gyro
what is
timid cloud
No one is playing boon in 2019?!?
timid cloud
Kidding.
marble hemlock
less prone to tilting/raging 😉
vestal wren
just dissable game sound 
winter gale
my ms is 47, feels best when I put spell queue window at 60
golden relic
what ms u play at seli
marble hemlock
~15
timid cloud
It’s 6am & you guys are making me wanna play again. I haven’t slept at all.
winter gale
Snort some @timid cloud 😄
vestal wren
a high spellqueue shouldnt be an issue
winter gale
So u are telling me higher will make it more smooth?
vestal wren
the main issues usually come from setting the value to low
timid cloud
I’m not tired. That’s why I’ve been sitting here. Lol.
marble hemlock
like, 60ms queue means you ahve to hit the button once within 0.06sec of the GCD becoming ready, or youll lose a tiny bit of efficiency
bleak spoke
definitely would miss inputs with it being that low right
winter gale
This is why i preffer to ask here rather than contacting support
vestal wren
the 20 above your ping is the minimu value you should set it to, it is not a rule to set it so low
winter gale
Guy told me i need to reset my router 😄
timid cloud
I’ve had it to where I had an evenom queued & it went into another mutilation
marble hemlock
ye, the lower it is, the more likely it is that you miss "uptime" with inputs not being within the queuewindow
the higehr it is, the more likely that you use an ability that you input first, even though you changed your mind prior to the GCD being ready
winter gale
So. i would need to play at 100 if my ms is 45-55?
timid cloud
Like it did the animation & technicaly “lagged” me into it.
bleak spoke
i should probably be higher than your ms no matter what innit
marble hemlock
so you just find a balance somewhere in the middle
golden relic
Might acctuallly try higher, i do tend to get like tired spamming past months
vestal wren
the default is 400 and i did not run into issues with 400 iirc
marble hemlock
for people who spam buttons, ping+100 is fine
vestal wren
(with a ping of ~50-80 usually)
marble hemlock
for people who like to queue more and only press a button once or twice, ping+200 is fine
timid cloud
Do you really need it if you play at 30 ping?
marble hemlock
ping has less to do with it than how often you hit a button
bleak spoke
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rw7s6CayL5dS3Qk1mrMgKr wtb set bonus, more sockets, blightborne, etc etc etc
marble hemlock
say you just used an envenom, next ability is mutilate. do you immediately hammer the mutilate hotkey after casting the envenom?
vestal wren
no, if your ping is good spellqueuewindow is usually 🤷
marble hemlock
and hit that button like 10times within a second?
or do you wait half a second, just press the mutilate button once and then wait for that to cast until you queue up the next ability
if you hammer buttons, you can get away with lower queue. thats pretty much it
timid cloud
I hit it right after if I’m in a TB window.
vestal wren
ppl where quite confused bc. it was very visible in my subtlety guide in ToS/AtbT, hence the mentioned issue existed.
see:
timid cloud
Since I want a minimum of 3 Envenoms per TB, no?
marble hemlock
for melee, spellqueuewindow literally is only about the 1second window after you used an ability, in which you cannot use another ability
bleak spoke
and proper pooling really
marble hemlock
with a window of 700, you could hit that next ability in your rotation half a second after the previous ability, and it would be cast properly
golden relic
lol imagine if TB window and envenoms was determined on spamming buttons, lmao
dead inside
bleak spoke
then it'd be an AR window :^)
marble hemlock
with a window of 100, you need to hit the button 0.9sec after the previous one. if you do it too early, your input will not be registered and not queued, potentially making you miss out on 0.1sec of using an ability if you happen to only hit the button once every 0.2sec
marble hemlock
theres no reason to have a spellqueuewindow be as low as possible, itll only force you to hit keys as close to the GCD becoming available as possible, with a higher risk of that input not being registered for queue
bleak spoke
if you disable it then you're guaranteed to lose time
unless you play mechanically perfect to the millisecond?
marble hemlock
the only reason to not have a high queue, is that sometimes you decide to use one ability, and then change your mind. if you have a queue of 500, you spam envenom, and 0.2sec before the GCD becomes available you decide you want to rupture instead, it will still cast the envenom since it was queued first
unless that happens to you, theres no reason to lower the queuewindow
vestal wren
if your ping is good enough it would still use the env
vast forum
maybe instead of looking through settings, try to improve your gameplay by not being a spammer? 
vestal wren
the only purpose of the setting is to reduce the impact of higher latency
marble hemlock
while there certainly is one to having one that is too low
vestal wren
so if you have a good ping the setting is largely irrelevant
marble hemlock
and id actually agree with yoppa, if youre hitting keys 10times a second, thats generally not something you should be doing anyway
golden relic
i re installed my AIO and the spellQ didnt reset now btw seli
marble hemlock
esp in a game like wow where you really dont have to do that
golden relic
when logging out and restarting
vast forum
people who look for addons and settings to fix their mistakes instead of actually learning to play baffle me
vestal wren
spamming inputs shouldnt cause issues
marble hemlock
itll cause issues for your keyboard
timid cloud
Well not anymore in comparison to legion.
marble hemlock
why hit a button 10times, when hitting it once at the right time is enough?
winter gale
If u are not here to try to hlp me stay back 😉
marble hemlock
your gameplay is more controlled that way
winter gale
When I need a comentary I watch football games
timid cloud
Since we have 15% haste now. Not 30 or even like even more than that in a certain timeframe.
That’s fair enough.
storm drift
what flask's are good for rogues
marble hemlock
bleak spoke
Haste doesn’t affect your gcd tho
marble hemlock
ye
timid cloud
Talking legion where we could mash & not get punished.
marble hemlock
rogue gcd has always been 1sec
ever since release
assa in general doenst have punishing mechanics where we need to fit as many abilities into a certain window without running into resource-issues first to begin with
thats different to sub, who want 4 abilities per shadowdance, or outlaw that wants as many abilities used during AR while possible to minimize energy-overcapping issues
bleak spoke
Maybe lust with galecallers to not cap
vestal wren
only thing that changes gcd is AR from outlaw
bleak spoke
But kinda outside scenario
storm drift
well?
marble hemlock
only issue really is a BL+galecaller+OP opener where you can actually fit 9 GCDs into TB
timid cloud
🤔
marble hemlock
and even then, thats not nearly as ping/queue-problematic as something like shadowdance for sub
bleak spoke
Yeah that’s the scenario where I’ve fucked myself over after getting a cp mutilate and the muti queuing again
vestal wren
oh ye iirc vendetta gcd is hasted
bleak spoke
You hate to see it tier
marble hemlock
ye it is fuu
timid cloud
I see. So instead of trying to play like a DH. I need to just slow down.
marble hemlock
for whatever reason 😄
vestal wren
always forget about that
bleak spoke
Oh yeh you can get 3 ss and vendetta out or something from stealth right
bleak spoke
Kinda weird and pointless right
marble hemlock
not that it matters 😄
bleak spoke
Given the setup we want to do?
marble hemlock
theres no reason to ever do that, no
spark pike
that spell queue window have been a problem for me as long as i can remember thank you guys !!!
marble hemlock
ye, if the queue is a problem, its really just
missing inputs? -> increase it
older inputs being executed instead of newer ones? -> lower it
bleak spoke
Kinda weird thing to ask but does np snapshot nightstalker and what would it take for that to be relevant @vestal wren
marble hemlock
psure i tested it when the haste-scaling GCD was discovered, and it doesnt snap
bleak spoke
Oh
marble hemlock
it also doesnt snapshot the hastevalue you had when you use it
bleak spoke
That’s supremely uninteresting then 
marble hemlock
ill test it real quick just to be sure
vestal wren
i think seli is right
bleak spoke
Thought maybe there could be some meme with vanish vendetta
marble hemlock
i actually think its hardcoded to not snapshot though
since you can use vendetta from stealth without breaking it
so you would be able to get 2 nightstalker-abilities out
bleak spoke
Wait does nothing personal not break stealth
timid cloud
Wait, but wouldn’t that put us in combat because of NP?
marble hemlock
getting into combat doesnt automatically destealth you
marble hemlock
nah
you can dot someone up and then vanish
and the dot-ticks dont break your stealth
vestal wren
if it snapshots you could potentially use vanish together with vendetta
bleak spoke
Yeah was thinking that
marble hemlock
bleak spoke
When I asked what type of stats would it take for that to be a thing
marble hemlock
first is vendetta used from stealth
second one is vendetta outside of stealth
so no snapshot
bleak spoke
Damn
crystal vessel
If that’s the case, why not vanish>vendetta>TB>mut etc for MA build?
vestal wren
well rip snapshotting dream 😉
bleak spoke
Disappointing haha
crystal vessel
Instead of vendetta>vanish?
marble hemlock
because you can just use the vendetta before vanish
without potentially screwing up your MA window if you lag out for 1/10th of a second
bleak spoke
Would be kinda cool to have nightstalker be a more consistent possibility over ma
spice surge
Like subterfuge? ;)
timid cloud
I’ll stick to my Nightstalker empowered Ruptures tyvm.
bleak spoke
Shush you
timid cloud
LOL
marble hemlock
if you use vendetta with the scaled GCD within MA/Subterfuge windows, you have less than 0.2sec at the end of these windows to use the fourth ability
which would normally be your third one
so if you lag a bit or mess up your queue, you lose out on one of the three abilities being boosted by MA/Subterfuge
vestal wren
first ma build is ~2% behind subter/ma on st (on herodamage)
bleak spoke
Yeh that’s true
marble hemlock
its really just NS being behind right now due to assa not having an azerite trait that scales rupture damage
vestal wren
i mean its close
marble hemlock
NS probably higher up if you compare an exsang build
would most likely be subter>ns>MA then
vestal wren
azerite also plays a role
marble hemlock
since subterfuge with garrote is a bigger dps gain than NS with a rupture
its just the bad scaling on rupture this expac
bleak spoke
Hmm with ns would you do like
marble hemlock
and poisons, for that matter. that make stuff like ns/mp less relevant
bleak spoke
Garrote muti to 5 vanish rupture
marble hemlock
NS typically is used on a 5cp rupture with max pandemic, into exsang
marble hemlock
yup
ive tried NS in keys for a bit with DS, opening on a pack with 6cp (saved from previous pack) to get NS-CT on the pull
but its not worth
singletarget suffers quite heavily
and CT having ~40% of its damage in the initial hit, not the DoT, makes snapshotting CT kinda less important
assa without vigor rn just doesnt work
we need the extra max-energy to ramp up without downtimes
bleak spoke
Yeh was gonna say wouldn’t that feel slow as hell
timid cloud
Rip venom rush
marble hemlock
its the same issue with all the other potentially strong builds
no subterfuge = no early energy sustain
and subterfuge without vigor = no early energy sustain
so until we find solutions for sustaining energy on an aoe pull without running dry first, theres no way around running subterfuge+vigor
and thats not gonna happen, the only reason we could do it in legion was because of t-sets giving us extra energy or reducing energy-costs of our abilities
timid cloud
Garrote energy cost reduced by 25. Good times.
winter gale
Could u tell me once again only. I am at 47ms and set it up on 100. Is it ok?
Feels nice on 100*
marble hemlock
does it feel okay to you? then its okay
😛
if you feel like you need to redo an input cause it didnt get registered and despite the GCD being ready, youre not using abilities? -> its too low
winter gale
Ty m8
tropic ocean
@marble hemlock so the better your ping the lower?
dark crag
There is a reason it was renamed spellqueue and not lag tolerance anymore
marble hemlock
exactly. its not about ping as much as it is about how much time do you lose between inputs. which lag obviously affects, but its more about how often/close to a GCD being ready you hit your keyboard key
dark crag
1 sec gcd, spell queue on 250ms means you can hit the key at 750ms from 1000ms gcd and it will queue
timid cloud
A friend mentioned it to me awhile back, is there a way to look at the rotation that the sim DPS raidbots do?
tropic ocean
I just lowered it from 400 to 250 and it feels a lot better
might try to lower it some more even tahts 25msish
marble hemlock
how do you notice a lower spellqueue?
dark crag
The original queue was 250, i bet many played with it before the reset to 400 default
tropic ocean
it feels less laggish when spamming keyboard
winter gale
Ok. I think I may say something too. I tried it for like last 3 days since I got new, much better internet. Previous to this it was default to 400 as for everyone. With new internet my delay was huuuuge, pressed ability would shine (that shine for a pressed abilty) for like 1,1.5 sec before used. I then set to 200-nothing, 150-nothing. Then I read about equal to ms and i set it up to 60 and it was fine. But for example, when I get 5 buffs as outlaw It felt like huuge lag, nothing was used. Not I set it up on 80(my ms is 47) and i tried it on outlaw and assa, got 5 buffs as outlaw and it works best like this.
tropic ocean
might be placebo tho idk
dark crag
If you spam buttons a lower
queue is not wrong
marble hemlock
ye
but it shouldnt change anything
there literally shouldnt be a change in terms of how it "plays"
you still get an ability off every GCD
dark crag
It just alters the time your key registers before gcd is finished
Ar from outlaw reduces the gcd
I played with 250 since ever and my ping is 20 to 30
tropic ocean
how did/do you do get yourself off smashing buttons?
its somehow in my automatism gaming, playing for 14yrs+ and in other games I played there was no ability queue so its somehow muscle memory :/
if I didn't use push to talk you'd probably think im morse-coding something 😄
dark crag
Prior to the extra 50 energy buff to ar, i had a few times under lust and ar that i triggered a ss instead of finisher. Coming close to energy cap triggered the spam in me
marble hemlock
idk, whenever i notice myself smashing keys again i conciously remind myself to not do it
think its not really something you can control
but when youre more relaxed and focused, in a relaxed environment, you start to not smash keys anymore
spice surge
I personally have setup some macros on my computer so I can hold down a botton and it will be spammed
leaden garden
Hey guys, is asa a lot about energy pooling?
marble hemlock
in general its about managing your resources, energypooling is a part of that yes
leaden garden
mainly pooling before TB right?
royal lantern
yeha
leaden garden
another question, is asa decent in m+ or is it all about outlaw?
royal lantern
its good, probably better then outlaw in some weeks
leaden garden
Thanks
dire sparrow
So didnt play since season 1, hello everyone again. Anything changed, buffs/debuffs. A real short summary would be loved
❤
royal lantern
nothing really changed
we got echoing blades, wich is a really good m+ trait
thats pretty much it
leaden garden
guys if i have 2 double dose, and 0 echoing blades traits, do I mutil or FoK at 2 targets?
vast forum
@dire sparrow with the removal of infested, and addition of reaping, outlaw is now the preferred spec for m+ (not in all cases, but in general)
leaden garden
Ah okay, thanks Eleem
alpine rain
Assassin or outlaw for Waycrest this week?
flint jetty
Do I actually have all BIS sin azerite pieces or are raid chest shoulders better? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/uBm9umo9UgW9aWwmyjdxX7
@alpine rain I'd say outlaw personally esp since fort
alpine rain
thanks!
flint jetty
Yeah triple OP is nice lol. I guess I thought that there was still a bitter dungeon chest or the mekka chest would be better, but simming I don't think so now.
rancid bobcat
But no there aren't really any better pieces in raid
spice surge
Overwhelming power is just so much better than anything else in that row in general
The only exception being gutripper on a fight like jaina, where execute damage is key (ontop of op being roughly half as good on that fight)
flint jetty
Yeah that's a good point I'll have to remember that when we get there.
So I guess OP would put that chest over the mekka even though TtK is generally speaking worse than a 2n stack of NP right?
spice surge
Yeah
rancid bobcat
Fairly small improvement but yes
I ain't worrying too much about azerite these days
spice surge
I mean, there's nothing else to worry about in terms of gear so 🤷
flint jetty
Yeah I can buy a piece so I was just looking into what I should get when I realized that sim wise I've probably got bis pcs for sin lol. So I guess I'll just close my eyes and pick one for OL or maybe save it for later idk
rancid bobcat
Just save unless you actually want to play outlaw
near pilot
I’d save it, cause at some point changes will be made, traits will be tuned and who knows what will be top dog
rancid bobcat
By the way are the double rogue dungeon comps 2 outlaw or 1 and 1
flint jetty
Yeah I've been enjoying it in m+ a bit I just get annoying changing traits, but not my only pc that overlaps between the sets are my shoudlers
rancid bobcat
Can't check time trial details
flint jetty
And when I've seen doubles rogues it's been 1 and 1 but who knows
I'm not super good at OL or anything but I feel like their st is a bit unreliable
rancid bobcat
That's what the other 2 dps are for
flint jetty
lol yeah but then if you're counting a second ol rogue in there is where it could get shakey I feel like, but I guess it would also depend on the key and affix too.
shy axle
Just to clarify if i am doing it "right". Inside dmg-buff windows (Vendetta/TB) I try to do as much Env as possible, not really pooling energy. 8If thats the case to do), do you try to not overwrite EP tough? or just as much finishers as possible? Outside Vendetta/TB I try to pool ~ 80e before finishing to make sure both Mutilates/finisher are buffed by EP.
vast forum
you could pool inside of TB as well as long as you don't miss a global
for example if you know you're gonna fit ~6-7 globals into TB, you could delay your GCDs for EP uptime
it's not a major gain either way
fallow estuary
can you soak jaina p1.5 orbs with cloak?
i've got a feeling i don't get blocked
but they keep floating trough me
tropic ocean
the ones freezing ppl?
fallow estuary
yes
tropic ocean
should be y, not 100% sure tho
patent flame
Can someone tell me a lvl 20 rotation for assas?
vestal wren
build with sinister strike, finish with evi
keep rupture and garrote up
marble hemlock
can soak those, yes
they have a grace period after spwaning
where they cant be soaked
~1sec
tropic ocean
@vestal wren build with sinister strike finish with evi oki doki
vestal wren
i doubt you have a lot of options
lvl 20 opens up rupture so if the enemy survives long enough you can keep it up
tropic ocean
especially when you use sub and outlaw spells in assa 😄
tropic ocean
im just joking you listed sub and outlaw spells 😛
vestal wren
true
weak garnet
If I'm triple stacking EB I should be using FoK starting at two targets, right?
bleak spoke
you don't get muti and env until a while later ye
and yeh fok at 2+
unless there's a prio target
weak garnet
K thanks
rigid mango
What're you guys doing for 2nd boss in FH, valuing muti's on jolly or just FoK'ing?
My example situation would have 3 EB
dark crag
I press bf and win
rigid mango
So do I now, but I'm just curious
visual quartz
@fallow estuary yeah cloak blocks those orbs, should be using rogues to do the interupt as there is no chance you can be blocked
giving your team comp I guess
spice surge
Ranged should always be the interrupters lol
visual quartz
we have no good range 😛
spice surge
Especially warlocks, as they have "unlimited" range
visual quartz
Im actually desinated interupter
deep meteor
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
thick galleon
If i rotate a mob with steath detection away from me can I go by it closer?
sturdy python
yes
vast forum
you can literally walk into it's hitbox from behind
if you're just 1 pixel behind their center pixel
bleak spoke
wait distract is that good?
stuck knoll
Distract is really good
bleak spoke
gosh
hollow stone
Hang on. Lemme open my spell book
ocean cave
would it be better to take MA over sub if i dont have any SS traits?
vestal wren
ss is rly strong in m+ you usually want to take ss there
ocean cave
gotcha
vast forum
o shit
my bad
i misunderstood
the "detect" was "distract" in my mind
hahaha sorry for wasting your time 
you resubbed for this
can't wait for july when my sub expires 😃
i hope 8.2 is before july so i get to try it and hate it before it expires
so i don't get the itch to return
solid nova
pale agate
on ML in the pack right before final boss, is it better to use vendetta there or save it for boss?
cobalt gyro
Depends on the key difficulty, your group, and how you've been pulling already
desert vault
Huh, fun to actually see what it is like to do a FH with real pulls, did 39k overall ... and I died on two of the reaping packs
tank was a maniac, pulling nothing less than 10 mobs at a time, was fun
turbid zealot
any tips of how i should pool for tb without not using abilities for 2-5 seconds
rigid mango
When running MA, is it ok to wait 5-10 sec with your TB for it to align with your vend+vanish CD?
or is it just more worth while pooling and using on cd
marble hemlock
its usually better to delay the cooldowns with a long cooldown, since its less likely that you will lose out on one entire usage of the cooldown
if you delay TB instead, its fairly likely youre doing one less TB than you could've done
rigid mango
Fair enough
marble hemlock
if its 10sec and you have to refresh garrote/rupture soon anyway, you can just delay that TB tho
marble hemlock
if the CDs come up in 10sec and you dont have to refresh garrote/rupture yet, its very likely you will have to once those CDs become available, further delaying your TB, so just use it then and there
you get 2 vendettas in P2
marble hemlock
killtimer depends on strat, when you use BL etc.
marble hemlock
ye, no way
rigid mango
Also how much energy do you pool for each tb?
marble hemlock
you generally get one on pull, one at the start of p2, and then one with BL after ~4min
rigid mango
Aight
but like TB, I get that it depends on how much haste I have
Where should I be aiming at to pool to
desert vault
@marble hemlock Why can't all tanks pull 8-12 mobs at a time? That makes Sin so fun! Heh, I never get to see it cause I almost only pug, but if I would have been paying attention I might have cracked 40k in a Freehold
marble hemlock
theres no magic number, its really just "pool whenever you dont have to take care of any of the other priorities"
desert vault
running 3x EB/SS of course
marble hemlock
padbuild peepoChrist
rigid mango
Well
desert vault
it was pretty fun though, it was only a 12 or 13 I think
marble hemlock
the basic goal is to always get 3 envenoms into your TB
marble hemlock
should be like
50-80
hard to say
with stuff like overwhelming power procs etc.
crit-RNG also plays a big role
rigid mango
I normally aim for ~80 ish
Yeah, I also try to use GCB every 3 TB's
Not that I know how good GCB is now
marble hemlock
but yeah, tanks pulling big is always more fun
even if it leads to a wipe sometimes
but i loathe running keys with tanks that never try to do more
rigid mango
What're you running for the general m+
trait wise
you seemed like you don't like the triple eb ss
lone junco
@marble hemlock you retire keys until S3?
marble hemlock
nah
flip wants to push highkeys again, so gonna build a grp
but @lethal heart says hes quitting the game, so im not sure
lethal heart
lone junco
🏓
lethal heart
triple eb ss is wrong way to play assa
imo
but i'm not gonna go into this topic
i'm too biased 
lethal heart
its just if you go for triple eb triple ss
you're pretty much
weaker version of outlaw
lower aoe
cobalt gyro
so what would you run
rigid mango
ig TTK?
lone junco
its prob my small Mh. but my outlaw is small carrot compared to my sin
lethal heart
coz most of keys i've been playing were with @marble hemlock
so idk
never bothered playing assa myself that much
when i did i played sth like
2 eb 2ss 2 ttk
coz that was trtaits i had
or was it 3eb 1 ss 2 ttk
nto sure
odd hatch
People really sleeping on ct
civic palm
Nope.
marble hemlock
not sleeping, its just that with the current TTK build CT is kind of in the way
you dont want to spend CP on something thats not a rupture or envenom
civic palm
Do note that if your comp. allows you to not play TtK and you're just AoEing to have a fun time, CT is great.
marble hemlock
you can go 3EB 3SS with CT and probably out-pad an outlaw
if thats what your group needs, go for it
assa has the flexibility (if you have the gear for it) to tailor their traits to what the dungeon/group/comp asks of it
odd hatch
No I mean running full st with Ct as the only aoe talent still pulls a ton of aoe. Really just depends on group tho. Not saying run 3eb n ct lmao
marble hemlock
so talk it over with your group, or for a pug just run like 3ss 2eb 1ttk or 2/2/2 and youll never run into any issues
well, problem with that is that 1EB is such high value already
civic palm
Also running CT while ST focused makes no sense.
lethal heart
@marble hemlock you wont outpad me 
marble hemlock
and CT makes the rotation harder, while not providing a signfiicant dps increase
dude
lethal heart
i dare you
odd hatch
Totally makes sense
lethal heart
civic palm
oof
civic palm
,<
lethal heart
wasnt set up properly
marble hemlock
excuses
lethal heart
no
civic palm
Who knows what mongo shit next MDI will have > _>"
lethal heart
too pepega for game
marble hemlock
in any case, using the tools and talents that assa has is the most important part, so CT is definitely a strong option for AoE, if thats what your group or heart desires
can you stop being emo/depressed nonstop
thats my job
lethal heart
marble hemlock
civic palm
OTL is now SUB, SUB is how SIN is now which is old SUB, SIN is Havoc.
marble hemlock
ye, assa can kinda choose between going full padlaw or full prio-sub
naive cypress
I am being told to play outlaw for Opulence by my mean GMs. I am literally falling asleep in front of the monitor
civic palm
Netflix.
marble hemlock
thats a new one
civic palm
Do it.
marble hemlock
ye
spiral escarp
“padlaw” I like that 😄
marble hemlock
just netflix and chill during opulence
civic palm
It's impossible for someone to die during the hallways.
You would think.
So, just AFK.
marble hemlock
nah
hallways are still lethal if people put fire in shitty spots
or if dps sucks and you gotta do the dance
civic palm
IF you AFK there's a lesser chance of telefragging someone as well.
civic palm
Imagine doing my DPS but being in Mythic... yikes.
naive cypress
Oof
harsh sphinx
Did he make you a ruby boy as well?
lethal heart
sub god 
civic palm
That's a fact.
harsh sphinx
First time off ruby duty I got rank2. Got swooped up by some hidden blades EB pad God tho
lethal heart
😄
harsh sphinx
Ya.. Swapped perfectlty 5 times. Think 31k in phase 1 lol
civic palm
lol
marble hemlock
farm-parses are kinda meh anyway
harsh sphinx
Prog parsing with my guild is ughh rough to say the least lol
But ya the dream https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/BnLbgmTwVAhWJrx4/#fight=22&type=damage-done&phase=1 don't think I'll get that lucky again
tropic ocean
well idk how you play opulence but for me its just
if you're lucky and get one of the first 3 coin shower u can parse
if not, rp
rip*
civic palm
Get 0 gold == win game
tropic ocean
cuz we sacrifice coin showers
civic palm
Yeah hahaha
harsh sphinx
Held my vendetta for a few seconds thinking I'll prob get swapped. Sure enough swapped 8 sec later or something
marble hemlock
well i hold vanish for double subterfuge garrote
but this week i literally didnt get swapped once in like 4 tries
felt bad
then i use it after opener, getting instaswap
harsh sphinx
Rough. I'm usually left side.. Getting orb on the opener is just annoying af
tropic ocean
just cloak it into raid and blame someone else
vital haven
yo with shrouded suff, should i hold on vendetta for the second vanish or n?
civic palm
Try to line them up as much as possible.
vital haven
how about toxic blade?
civic palm
Spam it, 2x+ ENV each.
proud gust
3x shrouded suffocation or 3x double dose? Or a combo? Sims says 3x double but I kinda like ss
civic palm
What's more important to you?
What you like;
or
What performs better.
proud gust
A mix lol. Might do 1 ss for the extra combo point and then 2x double dose
civic palm
If it's a mix then it doesn't matter, do whatever you like :3
tropic ocean
what boss? don't forget the nothing personal 😄
sharp gazelle
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
sick monolith
reading the ravenholdt guide. I haven't played since thankgiving. Is crimson tempest still viable in mythic + or just poison bomb for multi targets
civic palm
!ct
prisma monolithBOT
There is no specific week or affix that makes one or the other more viable.
CT vs PB is mainly down to your group, the dungeon itself and your pull sizes, with PB naturally having an edge in boss fights.
It's mainly the combination of affixes and dungeons that favour one or the other. High Tyr KR/Temple favour PB in general, due to low pulls and harder bosses.
In terms of Exsang vs TB; Exsang wins since it works well with SS traits and it's only 1 global on your priority target for some burst damage and extra energy.
TB usually locks you to that target to gain the most out of it.
sick monolith
oh, Thanks KPOP.
civic palm
No, I am Me.
heavy skiff
do bleeds check 4 haste at aplication or do they update at all time?
spice surge
They update all the time
civic palm
Dynamic.
heavy skiff
ok ty
vapid delta
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
stone crescent
2nd NP or 1 NP 1 Blightborne? Blightborne infusion sims like just a little bit higher but people have told me NP doesnt sim very accurate
strange python
raidbots telling me to go mastery gems, guess i have alot of haste lol
haughty mulch
Is there a wa just specifically for empowered garrote and nothing else?
pastel vault
havent seen one but you could prob copy feral druid rip snapshot WAs
civic palm
put that somewhere
pale agate
how would you calculate what percentage TTK added to your envenoms?
(combo points spend on envenom) * 577?
and then how could you figure out how many cp you spent on env?
lone junco
Wut. It's not like you are running ttk or nothing. Just sim the differences. Then use big brain.
pale agate
trying to decide between 3 ttk/1 eb or 2 ttk/2 eb (last 2 traits are eng and ss)
last week the 1 EB felt like it wasn't enough but for this week i'm not sure. my foks are doing too much damage to the lower hp mobs and i feel like i'm not getting the hp down on the biggest hp guys quick enough
i would just swap them back and forth to try it out but it would cost 165k lol
prisma crescent
Anyone have the Shroud countdown wa?
civic palm
hollow sky
this the most optimized I can be with traits?
should i switch the extra NP and go for that DD
and how should i finish the SS path
cobalt gyro
Sim it
unkempt phoenix
you can optimize how you ask questions by not flooding 3 screenshots
past spruce
You have to much crit imo and to low mastery but i am at that point to cuz gears sucksy
civic palm
Depends on what you are doin
hollow sky
ST
rustic ether
Np in m+ is yikes
hollow sky
I swapped one of them out for dd
hollow sky
I have 1 SS, 1 DD, 1 NP, 1 SOB, 2 EB
solar rose
1dd has like no place in m+ unless that’s literally the only trait you have
hollow sky
the other option is NP
hollow sky
which is also ass
solar rose
I’d go with the np
hollow sky
LOL
rustic ether
like i didnt start pushing keys as sin until i got 3EB 3SS 3HMC
cobalt gyro
Ya just run outlaw with a single wits and you'll do more than that fiesta of traits
rustic ether
which dont get me wrong was lucky as all fuck
hollow sky
ok what about for ST Sin
hollow sky
I just feel I got F'd on traits
rustic ether
if there are adds you might wanna consider an SS like on mythic grongg you can get 3 strong garrotes
hollow sky
1 SS, 1 DD, 1 NP, 1 SOB, 2 EB
I think this is the best setup i can run with available traits rn
round harbor
@hollow sky for what?
St sin is so vague
Like u wanna raid with those, st a little in dungeons?, Do world quests like what
woeful dagger
should i stack x2 shrouded suffication or go for a swirling sands my rogue enthusiasties
just want ppls opinions 😃
tropic ocean
for which kind of content
worldly iron
far too vague 
bronze kelp
what is the rest of your traits ? what content do you play most of the time, if m+ how high are you with your keys? etc. pp.
bronze kelp
SS has more value if you have many pulls that last exactly the duration of an empowered garrote
the longer a mob lives, the less value has SS
TTK outvalues SS at some point, cause its always strong. but has not that much value if all mobs die while you are still rupturing for energy reg
that are some corner points about it in general
but the exact value for sim purpose is something only sims can tell you
candid jasper
Playing with meld in m+ makes SSx3 incredible
meld-stealth, reapply garrotes
Unfortunately you can't do this in raids but it works great on trash.
I'm tempted to see how well echoing blades x3 goes in practice
warm sable
U can do it in raid but u need to do it str8 from meld ... u will get 3cp from it on 1 target
candid jasper
@warm sable unfortunately you don't get the subterfuge bonus though as it's not considered 'stealthed' whilst shadowmelded
It's especially good in m+ due to being able to get that restealthed 3x ss
warm sable
Yea but at least u get cp 😂
bronze kelp
hm... im still pretty not sure how much haste i should run on tyra weeks. i got a set with 35% crit and 17% haste, mastery and versa about 200-300 rating. if i go down with haste, i also go down with crit, cause i got so many crit haste pieces :/ what is a good haste value to aim for ?
on fort weeks i got 36% crit and 8% haste, but somehow i guess its a bit too less haste for tyra
worldly iron
I'd go 35% crit and 17% haste over 36% crit and 8% on any week 
unless the mastery suffers, I guess
simming is best, but that 1% crit is like nothing compared to that much haste, I'd say
works fine for me in 18 keys at least, dunno about higher ones
bronze kelp
problem is, that there is no sim that really suits the situation
dungeonslice sim always favours haste, cause of the boss fight in it. patchwork with high enemy count always favours crit/mastery :/
bronze kelp
yeah i know that
wary ice
🤷 so when u want more st build more haste
bronze kelp
but there is not "sim for tyra week" "sim for fort week" fightstyle
wary ice
yeah u gotta use ur :brain:
if ur tryna optimize at that level of specificity, generically, you're going to get a pile of poo for data
bronze kelp
and thats why im asking here, and most of the time the answer is "sim it"
you see the dilemma ?
cobalt gyro
Run with whatever set you feel most comfortable with running. I run 33% crit and 12+% haste
cobalt gyro
No specific reason, it's what gear I have that's best, though I'd run with more crit if I could
bronze kelp
first aim for me is to get as much crit as possible cause i run mixes with many EB and TTK
and with max crit 36,4% unbuffed im in a pretty good state 😃
I'll test that next ID, last week i was on 32-33% crit and 17% haste, mastery and versa very low and had 2 ttk 2 eb 1 ss 1 swirling. lot of crit procs possible 😃
rocky ruin
im looking for new WA does someone got good WA
lost horizon
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
rapid pond
My guild is progressing mythic opulence tonight, is there any rogue specific tips to make our lives easier ?
naive cypress
If targeted by ruby beam you can stand still while using feint/cloak
bronze kelp
10 sec turbo burst window with masspull ^^
lone junco
@primal gazelle See. It's how you frame the timestep. "Burst" window is for the user to decide.
primal gazelle
im actually memeing after our convo ya know
😛
zoomed all the way in for maximal pad
lone junco
Granted there looks to be 3 spot a after the decimal.
Like literally 1 HB FOK in trash.
primal gazelle
my udk hit 120 yesterday
lone junco
Oh it's Dk.
primal gazelle
who wants to carry me
solid nova
Wow general can
golden relic
Lmao
primal gazelle
darn it
primal gazelle
ive never seen any of the other purples post here
lone junco
Rip don.
leaden garden
Hey guys, new to rogue and about to do Tol Dagor.... I've understood im supposed to unlock the prisoner cells, but not like all at once right?
naive cypress
All cells with friendly npcs
lost horizon
If you stand to the side you can open them without pulling the mob inside
carmine silo
lost horizon
The best is when you gotta get the one that's beside the 3 pack
Sap one, blind the other, gouge the third, click gate vanish and bail
While having the bridge pat distracted
Feels bigbrain af when you do it
Gouge if outlaw, I guess you'd have to kidney if sin
lost horizon
Oh nice
Glad someone actually put the effort in to make that
Way to go @rose perch
tropic ocean
im too lazy to pick anything besides dmg buff XD
lost horizon
The Mana Regen is huge for last boss
tropic ocean
im rogue NOT MY PROBLEM 😄
bleak spoke
Cheap shot lasts long enough
You don’t have to kidney
The pat also doesn’t have to be distracted
Though it does give you more time if you’re not confident
If the pat sees you try to make it around the corner cuz that’s enough to vanish
Otherwise just die cuz mass rez can get you from a different floor
serene basin
anyone know if it's possible to distract/shadowstep/sap the warden on the top level, after the 3rd boss
bleak spoke
Yes
serene basin
i've failed it everytime
bleak spoke
You don’t need to distract
You don’t even need to step
If you sprint into range of the sap while spamming sap it works
bleak spoke
Doesn’t matter he dumb
primal gazelle
you should still distract to be safe imo
bleak spoke
Yeah you can
Oh also make sure you have a stop attack macro if you have mouseover step
Cuz you’ll stab him first otherwise
primal gazelle
i use a shadowstep sap macro like i do for DH's in arena
serene basin
my ss is mouseover
so i'll never attack
guess I gotta keep trying till it works
or just sprint, sap like you mentioned
golden relic
That tol dagor jail artwork
oof
the detail is intense, i know exactly where to stand
golden relic
I love how tol is one of the most interesting dungeons, yet it is also the most fucking unfinished dungeon, with mob pathing
and pulling through the floor
golden relic
idk how, but yday we pulled the warden and the two casters before jes on the other side randomly , and they TPd and got stuck in the wall and we had to die
bleak spoke
Lol after jes we got some of the watery some casters even though we killed all of them headed to the boss
serene basin
i feel the same way about freehold
such a dynamic dungeon, with paths still left undiscovered
golden relic
the mobs after jes the looter and officer or w/E
dissapeard for us yday
just randomly despawned
got no %
bleak spoke
Like while we were playing the guy with debil shout
Yeah that pack lmao
Also for some reason bursting kills the block warden that’s low hop
And it doesn’t give count
Some weird ass shit goes on in that prison
serene basin
anyone have a good "active potion" wa?
tropic ocean
@golden relic you can knock off reapings, off the top floor with cannon and they will stand around tol dagor on the ground 😄
@serene basin https://wago.io/HytoQ6iVQ/6
i use this
or this https://pastebin.com/Spz5R0ty if you only want the pot one
round harbor
on the note of saping truessight mobs, its for sure safest to distgract away and step sap
bleak spoke
Rawr how’d that temple go yesterday
round harbor
or if outlaw distract sideways then grapple past them on the opposite side of the distract and drive by sap
bleak spoke
I stopped watching to play haha
round harbor
temple 20 easypeasez
i saw u and dayvanie stop in for a moment
rather, someone i didnt recognize their name
bleak spoke
3k the dream next week?
round harbor
maybe
i wanna hit 2.7k tonight
and thatll make it a little easier to get into groups next week
bleak spoke
Yeah
round harbor
thats my theory atleast
round harbor
yeah ive gone from 2.1k to 2.6kish in the past 2 days
bleak spoke
As long as people know how to control their dps I think
round harbor
its more about tank pull patterns
bleak spoke
Isn’t it always though haha
round harbor
like the way tanner does the first pull in Kr is actually so nice, and i dont see anyone else doing it
bleak spoke
Is it the golems with the sbolt volley and two gust slashes
round harbor
nah
bleak spoke
I’ve seen ppl experiment with that but that’s the “wildest” pull u can think of
round harbor
its the caster+ champion until they are like half way. then he pulls the left few mobs
round harbor
since the champ has inifite more hp
bleak spoke
Yeh that’s good for bolstering for sure
round harbor
and it basically is even
bleak spoke
Like my current tank does massive dps but I think I still haven’t played with many tanks who understand classes dps profiles
round harbor
playing with a consistent group is a massive dps increase
bleak spoke
Like trying to explain to ppl that if they pull the machines in motherlode it won’t actually bolster is like
Ugh
Yeh I’m starting to play with a consistent group
round harbor
ive been playing with people for key sessions then kinda not for a while again
bleak spoke
Yeh I feel that
round harbor
like i did like 3-4 hours with that group with tanner/mittbit/lala yesterday then i did a few hours with a diff group
bleak spoke
I never feel like I’m a part of most of the groups I play with
Because everyone can always use a rogue
But we’re kinda interchangeable
round harbor
yeah
bleak spoke
Past a certain io I think we all know the book of tricks kinda
bleak spoke
And everyone outputs the same 40k kinda
round harbor
i feel like i do a little more dmg than most but thats my only redeeming quality
bleak spoke
I think I bring knowledge of what actually kills people kinda
But in terms of actual output I think I’m slightly above average
And not better
I can call kinda but usually tanks are accustomed to doing it
I always feel like I should call when I play outlaw though, because of ppl misunderstanding blind and gouge and the bte stun
bleak spoke
Tol garbaj 8D
round harbor
like if anyone had just said please help on barrels i wouldve gone back
instead we just get over ran
ik u left, but the 22 was the cleanest shit of all time on that boss
like it makes the fight a joke
round harbor
u tok twice?
primal gazelle
nah
its cos i evasion dodged the deadshot
and that leaves a dot
didnt know it did that
i soaked a deadshot at like 30% with evasion and the dot extended and killed me
kwokz and ces are good players too
play with them all the time with rapf
primal gazelle
wow and u didnt hit me up with that??
primal gazelle
couldnt time a 22 temple last night cos our outlaw dps did 17k on the 3rd boss and we pretty much died to dps check
me and the ele did 23-25k dps each
primal gazelle
next pull, without lust, outlaw did 25k with us at 22k and killed it
he also somehow had a 5 buff for the pad in the orb room
it was fucking luls
serene basin
sometimes you can't escape the buried treasure
primal gazelle
he did 300k at the end of the pull, 20m dmg
primal gazelle
i rolled 5 for underrot skeletons, pulled aggro and insta died 😦
serene basin
should have asked ur druid to soothe u fam
primal gazelle
i was so hyped too
OH FUCK IMMA PUMP
jk im dead
they were all laughing
the quick change of tone from euphoria into sadness
reef hornet
Is there a haste cap?
tropic ocean
don't think so - probably limited by the gcd to some point but we are far from reaching that numbers yet
iirc with 100% haste you can reduce it to 0.75 and no further
primal gazelle
or when the boss is at 10% and you have 5 secs remaining on the timer
and everybody is just silent because they know we're not making it
golden relic
hahaha
kno the feel
Or When someone says "you wanna finish the key or?" when u kno its depleted and no one wants to be the first to just leave
tropic ocean
the silence when you don't want to flame when everyone exactly knows who just ripped the key
serene basin
not trying to be toxic but
i've learned from trying to do my alt keys, that if they invite you to discord and a girl is tanking
run
primal gazelle
mistakes will happen imo, its just best to not put everybody on tilt cos itll just make them play worse
shy dust
@tropic ocean what do you mean reduce the GCD to 0.75 we are set at 1.0?
shy dust
Rogues don’t have a GCD affected by haste
The only change I’m pretty sure is your GCD is at .8 with AR up
shy dust
Oh wow didn’t know vendetta gcd was affected by haste
tropic ocean
@serene basin my number 1 runners are "trust me" "i saw it on mdi" and "heavy breathing into mic alongside keyboard strokes"
wary ice
those are the same person 3 times though
tropic ocean
😄
serene basin
LOL
serene basin
people with 0 io score pushing KR
tropic ocean
😄
vestal wren
another thing affected by haste is exsang, it snapshots the haste value you have when using it
serene basin
hollow stone
Pretty sure it's rouge. Id know, since i play one
vestal wren
whats wrong with pushing high keys with 0 rio score 😛
hollow stone
🦇
primal gazelle
oh what addon is that
tropic ocean
@vestal wren its very efficient "ok i timed +11, lets go 18, ok ripped 18, lets go 22" gottagofast
primal gazelle
that tells u what class is in the group
tropic ocean
@primal gazelle premade groups filter
primal gazelle
oh nice
primal gazelle
i wish theres an addon that tells u the group's average io or something
sometimes i join a group cos leader has high io, to find the rest of them being plebs
insta leave
tropic ocean
the only thing missing for me is that it doesnt show spec but maybe in future
e.g. rogue - outlaw, mage - frost etc.
otherwise very good addon
serene basin
enhance shaman
tropic ocean
rouge* - outlaw sry
hollow stone
Thats right. Rouge
tropic ocean
playing rouge since release I should know better
tropic ocean
i played vanilla up to temple 40 then quit played some other games
started out as night elf priest then rerolled to rouge cause our dps was terrible
back in the day when dethecus was one of high pop german realms and ally was >>> horde 😮
now im getting nostalgic with old talent trees
.'(
:'(*
serene basin
making clothies wet themselves with a cold blood + ambush/mut eh
tropic ocean
opportunity was bestest
hollow stone
Played gm/hw friend's rouge w weaps back then. Didnt even need the ambush. Jusy cb evis 1 shot from stealth
Balance
hollow stone
I had cool friends, dont mistake that for me being cool
sick cradle
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
golden relic
rupture the ones that walk by u
dont chase them
or if u want damage on raptors specfically then ye rupture them all xP
covert crag
Yeah our guild isnt the best so I need to focus raptors
solar rose
Also take internal bleeding. You could be stunning them as well.
harsh sphinx
i personally only kidney if it targets the tanks, me or a healer sometimes
mint peak
Stun them if you need to help whomever kite them
covert crag
So never kidney purely for damage?
solar rose
It’s usually my top damage done to raptors.
haughty lily
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
spice surge
Internal bleeding does a lot more damage than envenom does
Not as much damage as rupture does over its entire duration, but not that far behind
Especially if you count the energy too
atomic saddle
Is it worth to delay Vendetta for Vanish with 1xSS?