what is your ping in raid?
#assassination
wise star
desert night
Have any fun off-brand trinkets y'all enjoy? I've this fun 385 trinket that's Agi with like... 750 haste on a 1min CD I enjoy using for WQs
Got it from a Tortolan daily reward.
hushed maple
I have no idea, what my Ping is in raid :/
lost horizon
Yeah definitely try adjusting spellqueue window to see if that'll help
If you're getting fps drops check if you have outdated WAs
lone junco
@rigid yacht the most impactful portion of your fight will lean on the vendetta vanish, open and at 220 resync. and then proper tb usage.
lone junco
light jacinth
frank fjord
Does kidney shot work into your rotation if you spec internal bleeding?
lone junco
@rigid yacht stuff like this is gonna murder your deeps.
@frank fjord cant use on bosses.
but in 5s Internal bleeding does good dmg, but I use iron wire.
the vanish string from nibren is sad crit
unless he is overcapping for DD hits.
idk.
negative
civic palm
luckyboi
hushed maple
Did they buff nothing Personal?
civic palm
Nope.
hushed maple
bloodmallet says its #1 now O.o
civic palm
uhhuh
civic palm
@hushed maple SIMC was not calculating Haste into the NP DMG portion, so it got fixed and gained on the charts.
fast nacelle
hi @lone junco
yeah it was whatever...we just cleard fast for jaina it just happened
rough agate
Does galecallers effect bleeds after its gone
like does the garrote snapshot off the haste
lethal heart
@fast nacelle 👋
rough agate
ty
outer rune
u are about to cap energy with 3cp and tb on 2 secs cd u muti to not cap and get 2 cps whats the right thing to do envenom tb or tb and overcap cps and envenom afterwards with almost full energy
to get more envenoms inside tb
solid nova
You can TB at 5
visual quartz
agree, losing a cp on TB is better than envenom, get 4cps again and TB possible being low on energy and not getting your 2-3 env in TB window
outer rune
ye whenever i run in a situation like this it always feelsbad but i felt like tb envenom is better
just wanted to see if it actually was worth and nit just my 2 nuts' feelcraft
civic forge
i thought sims showed otherwise?
cause i had this question the other day when i swapped to TB and from what i saw the APL just did tb after 5 pt env
hollow matrix
pretty sure the consensus is that when u find yourself in that less than ideal situation, its acceptable and optimal to waste a cp with your TB. Probably are some exceptions like if the boss is gonna die in less than 20sec(no more TB's) or some other big CDs timers
outer rune
i see
lone junco
at the 2:20 ish mark depending on subterfuge vs ma you hold vendetta a bit to line them back up.
tired shell
ok thanks 😃
chilly hazel
wait what happened with nothing personal? why does it sim so high now?
is there a hotfix i missed?
supple hearth
just changed the way it sims
chilly hazel
huh
civic palm
SIMc didn't factor Haste into NP previously, does now.
chilly hazel
intersting
civic palm
If you say so.
chilly hazel
atomic willow
why does blood mallet now show 3 stacks of nothing personal as best ST now?
civic palm
Scroll nowhere, the answer is on your screen.
hollow matrix
i think, at least for raidbots, that they were not factoring in your haste and/or mastery to increase dmg of NP. Now that it's been adjusted its obviously gonna sim better
cant say for sure about blood mallet
hollow matrix
xD
idk about most people, but i never got into using blood mallet or hero damage
just seems completely arbitrary since its not based on your other gear, so idk how it's even remotely applicable
maybe im just missing something 😐
civic palm
Well what you do, is realize that it's creating a baseline and giving results that can then be used by you to make choices.
hollow matrix
i feel like that just means "this skill is gonna be this good, unless you are wearing any other gear then it could change"
like lazy man's sim
grave elk
For m+ i have 3 SS traits. On mobs I always garrote 3 targets then CT then fok to spread rupture right? That’s pretty much the basic of m+ mobs?
tacit steppe
I mean it gives you a pretty good idea between things too. Trinkets are a good example. If two things are really close then obv you gotta dig a little further but looking at that chart you can say “oh this mydas talisman is actually garbage compared to harlans” it’s not completely arbitrary lol
civic palm
Most people do use it for trinkets and as a bit of a quick look thing.
strange python
can you evasion coin shower in mythic opulence?
solid nova
Not solo no
steep obsidian
newp
deterrence icelblock bop work
i think blur might as well too
and palli bubble
lone junco
@hollow matrix charts are good for targeting pieces. else how will you know what to expect on a global scale. like. is sin a dog shit spec compared to others with the best raid gear available?
grave elk
on conclave do u guys sprint around rupturing all raptors if u can
civic palm
No
grave elk
just stick on boss?
civic palm
No just don't go running around.
crude bay
Internal Bleeding, kidney the one that gets close to boss, to help team, then rupture it if its not dead, but stick to your target
ez
civic palm
PotW is also bonkers there
crude bay
if you actually dps them after, sure, but i usually dont, maybe a garrote -> kidney then switch back
fresh robin
anyone know how well the dungeon slice setting works for m+ sims? or is hectic add cleave still the best choice?
safe matrix
hectic add cleave was never the best option
typically most did patchwerk 3-6 targets 20-40 seconds
tacit steppe
https://i.imgur.com/SNdShgc.png Ive been bamboozled pepehands
the one time i get a sweet tf xD
steep obsidian
you can pretend you are a bad outlaw rogue in legion tho
bleak spoke
Prey on the weak is only good if the stunned target takes 10x as much damage as your internal bleeding hit
Also you lose energy regen because IB triggers venomous wounds
grave elk
For m+ i have 3 SS traits. On mobs I always garrote 3 targets then CT then fok to spread rupture right? That’s pretty much the basic of m+ mobs?
grave elk
yeah i have no EB @bleak spoke
primal gazelle
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/kqcEuEXBqtc3kjscNQQ4vs
i have high crit on every slot, 2x unstable flames, mekk crit trinket
my fok procs are insane lol
the only haste i have is on my neck rip
rigid yacht
@lone junco @fair blaze thanks so much for the help, now i got something to look out for 😃
grizzled jay
Imo 3EB is overdoing it. But it is fun padding
primal gazelle
padding is life
grizzled jay
With your crit the TTK toxic blade build would be very sexy
primal gazelle
i hardly trust aoe sims because its not using optimal sin aoe rotations
only linked sims to show the crit/mas gear
2t+ target sims for sin tells you to keep garroting on cd and keep up ruptures on all targets even 6+
which you will never actually do in a pull
optimal rotation is to keep fok fok foking but sims wont let you waste combo point
crude bay
change apl then
quick ice
I swear someone actually looked into that a few weeks back, but it's not in tc-research
quick ice
1st one depends on traits, second I'm pretty sure at least 3, might even be higher?
grave elk
No eb traits if thats what u mean
quick ice
Also depends on DD traits.
grave elk
Double dose? that effects the aoe rotation?
civic palm
Having DD makes hitting Mutilate stronger, so the number of targets to get FoK to deal more damage than Mutilate (along with the CP generation and finishers/etc.).
grave elk
gotcha that makes sense actually. yeah i just have 1 DD stack
bleak spoke
Hard to sim for rupture sniping for energy
grave elk
i hate that feeling when ur energy is just starved in a boss fight
after the opener is gone and done, it feels like pooling to 60 ish doesnt make it very fluid. i sometimes gotta wait till im like around 90 energy just so it doesnt feel so bad for next few combos
pastel vault
sim still refreshes rupture during TB pretty often but ppl say "good rogues dont do this" so who's right? 🤔
obv if there's a choice to delay the refresh without rupture dropping off that's better but
vestal wren
dropping rupture is bad, dont do that
pastel vault
I dont think refreshing rupture earlier than 7.2 seconds is worth before a tb is it?
vestal wren
no, unlike with subtlety refreshing rupture early for tb/vendetta is not good
pastel vault
I dont see any logic like the sub rogue nightblade early refresh in asa APL
vestal wren
we tryed it but it resulted in damage losses
rupture is to diffrent to use it in the same way
pastel vault
ok ty
grave elk
wait so what ur saying is if TB comes off CD. always refresh the rupture if u can before you use TB? @vestal wren
grave elk
ok gotcha
i just wanna make sure at the end of opener with SS. you wanna vanish garrote garrote then either envenom or rupture if its falling off right?
@vestal wren
balmy quest
Does cloak stop Thief's bane on Opulence mythic?
atomic compass
Yes
raw tusk
Is there anyway to look up leaderboards for a specific mythic + key level and dungeon worldwide?
Like to see best times for an atal 7 worldwide without scrolling through pages on raider io
raw tusk
It just changes class population for that key
Still starts leaderboards at top level and time
grave elk
Is crimson tempest must have for m+?
strange python
No Loti it is not. I normally only play PB on tyr and some dungeons on fortified. And CT on Fortified
grave elk
Okay so it’s more of take it in heavy adds/tough adds
In tyrannical it makes sense to get better dmg for boss
round harbor
Pb in every dungeon besides FH and ML
Imo
CT is becoming more and more shit with the eb high crit builds going around
You won't want to be wasting energy on CT when you could be foking
strange python
So what do you spend your CPs on @round harbor
round harbor
Ruptures or envenoms lol
Depending what needs to be done
Posion bomb is literal free dmg
No globals or energy spent to get it
Or cp
grave elk
Makes sense
edgy pawn
Can anyone explan to me why so many rogues with top logs use the feather from kings rest instead of galecallers?
i even simmed some of them and in every case haste sims higher than versa
and you even get more haste than versa
round harbor
It has no conditions
quick ice
you don't have to stand in it
round harbor
You press it and do big dmg
quick ice
lots of movement out there
round harbor
Also it's for the full durations of vendetta so even tho galecallers give more stats it's a shorter duration
edgy pawn
but you get two galecallers instead of one feather
steep obsidian
galecallers is hard to use on some fights
someties you cant just plant your feet for 10 seconds
round harbor
But the one inside the vendetta window is more valueable
Gc is one use half of vendetta, then during no cds
The use outside of burst window is not very valueable
Even though the trinket still is good and Sims good. I wouldn't use it unless it was like actually 425
strange python
How would you guys concider Dead-eye Spyglass for M+? I should be very strong with the Crit on EBs
round harbor
Top tier trinket
Pair that with a plumage and ur set
Or just go Harlan's/deadeye. Both are good combos
steep obsidian
yah just make sure you monitor the proc and stick on the mob to get stacks
spice surge
mekkatorque trinket is also amazing for m+
steep obsidian
never seen one
strange python
Well right now I am sitting on a 415 Dice and a 400 GCB. Have been farming SoB and KR but still no luck :s
knotty dew
mekkatorque trinket gives nice extra crit and independent of one target like dead-eye
summer marten
Luckers with dice and spyglass... been doing just freehold and siege m+ for weeks, and coining it but nothing
but did get 410 feather from weekly chest
covert crag
Is it not worth holding envenom til EP runs out? According to sims i should just use it asap
real bay
no
spice surge
Spyglass isnt very dependant on one target
You hit it for like 1 sec and you get full stacks
then you hit that target again 10s later and youre still full stack
strange python
Well I feel I want a Feather 400 rather than a 400 GCB for raid(even if it Sims lower) and a Spyglass instead of GCB for M+ due to EB now
raven mica
tbh its more like a conch than for example legion marksman marked shot window
prime bison
Is crimson a good pick for the next week?
strange python
At first I was so happy with the GCB but it is so situational to get the full potential. Kinda wish I farmed the other two
raven mica
I thought CT was always a good pick this season cuz of reaping.
raven mica
INTeresting.
raven mica
I'd only have one EB if that's the case
the rest would be SS and SoB
is this during normal packs as well or just reaping?
spice surge
It also depends on your crit and stuff
But fok does more damage the more mobs you have
raven mica
Need to prep myself for the inevitable swap to sin when I hit the mekkatwerk wall
spice surge
More damage per mobs* up
raven mica
Quadratically like unholy, or linearly like ya know: most AOE
strange python
Speaking of Crit. How much crit do you guys have? I think I might have overdone it on Mastery. I have 30/14/38
tribal marlin
it's linear because only 5 wave can be thrown at 1 time
spice surge
I mean, until you get 5 fok crits every cast
Its only linear after you always get 5 crits
raven mica
So !ct is right, got u
amber temple
Hey everyone. Wondering if I should reactivate my rogue these days. I see on herodamage that Double Dose trait x3 is the best combination. Is that the case? I used to run SS in Uldir and that performed quite well.
quick ice
SS got a lot of nerfing
vivid bone
isn't simming still best?
amber temple
Yes, I know I need to sim. But rather than going out and trying every possible combination with all the bad traits, I am looking for a good starting point
So, which starting point would you recommend (I guess is my question ;))
raven mica
simming doesnt take that long
vivid bone
also there's not that many traits
raven mica
Dont sim the traits that are obviously gonna be shit
amber temple
Okay. Pretend I have 0 gear :P Which pieces would you recommend?
amber temple
Thanks :)
raven mica
for M+ conclave chest and then residuum
weak isle
best use of exan after opener?, after both dot refresh? or on cd?
strange python
Hello. I'm switching to Assa from Sub as I'm starting to push "higher" keys and want to be more viable. Is there a list of traits that stack and don't stack? I wasn't able to find an answer online.
rose perch
Shrouded Suffocation and Echoing Blades are great, Twist the Knife and Scent of Blood are also pretty popular M+ options
winter moss
best try on jaina? 
rose perch
58% : )
winter moss
nice! good luck, hopefully can tune in on your next stream
strange python
ok thanks, those were the one I was going for, but I wasn't sure if Shrouded Suffocation stacked.
rose perch
the damage increase does, the combo points don't but that's nbd
strange python
i see
strange python
!aoe
winter moss
what are you looking for sander
robust cloak
!ct
prisma monolithBOT
There is no specific week or affix that makes one or the other more viable.
CT vs PB is mainly down to your group, the dungeon itself and your pull sizes, with PB naturally having an edge in boss fights.
It's mainly the combination of affixes and dungeons that favour one or the other. High Tyr KR/Temple favour PB in general, due to low pulls and harder bosses.
In terms of Exsang vs TB; Exsang wins since it works well with SS traits and it's only 1 global on your priority target for some burst damage and extra energy.
TB usually locks you to that target to gain the most out of it.
thorn tartan
rose perch
@thorn tartan
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Ghjzq7VZF2y8dn6C#fight=4
Your opener is a little weird - generally you want to open with Garrote mutilate rupture and then vendetta before rather than after your toxic blade.
It's strange to see these periods where you're spamming Fan of Knives as well - with Double Dose traits you want to only use Fan to spread poisons unless there are 5 or more targets.
You're also mutilating at 4 or 5 combo points a few times - try to avoid doing that!
This fight also went long enough for you to get 3 galecallers uses, but it looks like you're only using it with vendetta - its cooldown is short enough to fit in a use between each vendetta as well!
rose perch
yeah it takes some getting used to 😃
heavy skiff
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
lone junco
@primal gazelle your Fok apl talk is what seli has been talking about since EB came out. The sim over ruptures and pegs E. but as Mistler has said before
so i doubt they care or will do anything in the apl about cleave.
it took like 4 months to get the GGG open in cleave.
ruby oxide
Say you don't have any EB traits, but have 2-3 DD. Is there a minimum number of targets where FOK will outperform mutilate? Is it still 3+?
vestal wren
apl is simple logic everyone with a somewhat reasonable/minor technical edjucation should be able to do it 😉
so "They" is no entety, its everyone who is willing to contribute in their free time
rose violet
Didn’t join this discord to get roasted by you @vestal wren
vestal wren
i mean with recent #tc feedback, a lot of those "optimizations" that where suggested dont impact the output, while they still get served as facts in the channels
if you complain about sth not done in x time, why not grap the apl, open the wiki and start working
rose violet
I’m not complaining tho 
wary ice
@ruby oxide i think w/DD and no EB, you mutilate to like 5+
rose violet
I appreciate the work you do
vestal wren
i just see this topic about "apl beeing wrong" or "not reassambling my gameplay" lately from som folks
while i think its reasonable to think of improvements, it does not help to bluntly complain
lone junco
its not complaining, as much as managing expectations. the apl has been, in the time i've been here, prioritized for ST.
because M+ cleave was not a priority.
vestal wren
thats wrong
lone junco
and getting the GGG to overcap when it was a CLEAR and belligerent gain took a long time.
but I'm kinda new. so I may be missing some stuff.
vestal wren
i dont claim the apl is perfect
lone junco
it has always been very good for ST. thats is my point.
vestal wren
you get the point wrong
lone junco
excessive conditional mob counts have not been micro managed.
which makes sense. in the end, APL management is an unpaid effort.
vestal wren
if you find mistakes, feel free to make a post in #tc-research
i, koji or mystler usually take a look at them sooner or later
lone junco
👌
vestal wren
but complaining "this took them x to fix" is just stupid
lone junco
again. it is not complaining. just reminding realistic turn around time for reworks that dont have to do with ST.
and that was even pre nerf ss.
vestal wren
i still think ss is to strong
wary ice
wait did ss get nerfed again?
lone junco
no
vestal wren
it should tbh
lone junco
negative
wary ice
I want it viable as a 1x
lone junco
you get 3 targets.
vestal wren
well EB was also very well thought through :/
lone junco
and also quoted Mystler to remind that he doesnt care about high target 40s sims.
but thats that.
afk
vestal wren
well
if you reduce the fight to 3 secs
the apl might be not optimized for 3 sec fight lengh 😉
to make an extreme example
wary ice
The real question is during a 3s st fight is it worth it to Envenom at 4cp or do you dot he 2nd mutilate for a 5cp envenoms ince you wont get a 2nd in no matter what
vestal wren
i know 40 sec 6 boss targets is usued to sim m+ for whatever reason, but its not a good estimate
in fact <10% of trash packs fall into that categorie, and even they die within those secounds
vital haven
what do you guys think about using to on use trinkets?
i got a the jadefire masters trinket but i already have an on use trinket
it sims higher but just the thought of having two on uses kills me
lone junco
I enjoy 1 on use. 2 is messy
and it dropped GCB for bijou at a tiny loss, cause fuck that circle
especially since i dont run exang anymore.
rose perch
What's your other on use? If it's mekkatorque that doesn't actually put other trinks on CD
vital haven
its a 405 pearl diver compass
weak isle
best use of exan after opener?, after both dot refresh? or on cd? (its not in the pins 😃 )
vital haven
make sure to maximize your dot timers beforehand
uhg thank god ive switched out of exsang
rose perch
@vital haven ya if the sim says it's best it probably is but it's understandable to not want to run 2 on use
lone junco
the ones that matter are the vanish GG exang
vital haven
its like 0.1 or 0.2
lone junco
@vital haven look at the % loss to swap into a non use.
vital haven
so ye probably just keep 1 on use
i have a hard enough time remembering to use one 😋
rose perch
Get yoself a big annoying weakaura 😃
lone junco
Pearl diver is 1.5min too. thats bullshit.
vital haven
ya i hate 1.5 min
lone junco
I guess you could line up every other exang
vital haven
i know @rose perch lol
lone junco
but not the vanish.
vital haven
honestly if i was gonna get extremely lucky with a wq trinket id rather it be a first mate spyglass
lone junco
if you got a 400+ Bezerkers juju it could be used at the same time as GCB.
they didnt cd each other.
and both 1min
i play outlaw fine, but I wind up tunneling UI and miss mechanics. aka. not good at it.
warm geode
with time u look less, just play more 😃
lone junco
muscle memory for sin is ez though and performs well. and I dont have to get a swerd.
god Im jumping threads
ugh.
chilly goblet
i'm comfortable with sin and really enjoy playing it - i've had a lot of comments in m+ about "why aren't you playing outlaw," is current outlaw in m+ that significantly better than sin?
sorry if that's been asked a million times
lone junco
if your team pulls small like 3-5 sin does very very well with ss traits. if they pull mongo, you will need to slide to a crit stack with some EB. Ive seen seli sustain 100k for 25 seconds as sin. so w/e.
outlaw cleave is very easy to do and doesnt need a restealth. just need the blade flurry trait.
chilly goblet
gotcha, makes sense - thank you for the answer
lone junco
outlaw is probably better at short duration massive packs.
sin needs time to garrote 3, rupture 4 and then roll into fok env spams.
lone junco
I looked at the logs for top rogue dmg. and sub is so far behind.
like 5k or something.
fast nacelle
not even talking about dps
just the way it plays
i really think the legion sub was so much fun... sad we couldnt keep it
eventhough dfa fucked up some times i miss it
but at least we have assa now in a healthy spot
i remember the AP times where you would never target switch bc you'd be fucked.
aoe came just from random pb procs
but yeah.... def not in best place right now :D
languid ore
hexed sail
What's your best min max move?
warm geode
simulate and get the best stats the is saying
winter moss
simcrafting and feelycrafting
hardy spire
i got galecallers boon, should i just pop it on cd? obv stack with vendetta but if theres like a 30 sec difference for whatever reason, should i delay it?
ruby oxide
Personally, when I ran it, I got very good results making sure it had 100% overlap with toxic blade, especially during vendetta
brisk forge
is it worth to drop 1 dd and sims like 400 above 1 SS? there is some cleave in BoD :S i mean the feelcrafty seems worth to rather use one SS and be higher on deeps on like jade, king etc
ruby oxide
It sims above 1 SS in single target, most likely. Sim yourself a 2 boss fight with moderate movement and see what it spits back
spice surge
Movement in sims isnt overly optimized
Feel free to play with ss if you like, but dd does more damage on basicly every boss except those you mentioned
arctic harness
Well people say survival is in a good place and no one is playing that either 🙅
primal gazelle
@vestal wren the apl for 6t 40 secs is exactly the same for 5 mins tho
lone junco
wonder what the Damage pre fok curve looks like with 30% crit graphed vs mob count.
tbh, I wish I had 3twist to try out.
1ss 2eb 3 twist.
vestal wren
why would it be diffrent?
lone junco
would find the mob count for 1 fok is better than a 5cp env.
fokfokkfokfokfokfokfokf
assuming the ruptures are out.
prob never tbh. esp if you can get a 70k-100k env crit
+pbomb
night wolf
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
ruby oxide
Aside from getting a GCB what can I hope for aside from 400 Harlan’s and 400 Plumage?
carmine lynx
hello , I would like to get some tips and some help to further improve as a rogue , if anybody could lend a hand and tell me if/what I am doing wrong it would be greatly appreciated , i have used wow log analyzer but I don't feel it is really that helpful , if anybody could take a look and point out my mistakes it would be greatly appreciated , thank you very much in advance (https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/id/27458178#difficulty=4)
strange python
can you cloak coin shower on opulence?
lone junco
@ruby oxide there is a Tortillan trinket from the emmisary box that is a 1min haste trinket "bijou" similar to gcb just no circle on the ground. lasts longer, a bit lower haste.
sand whale
nope you can't cloak coin shower
vast forum
by "a bit lower", you mean ~40% lower, noobe?
dapper wraith
So I don't have the right gear to go 3x EB and 3x SS for M+ - which direction should I lean? EB over SS?
vast forum
or like 20% idk
depending on level of keys you do
but SS is the best pick in general if you get restealths
it has value in ST, amazing for small pulls with pugs
strange python
@sand whale thanks 😃
lone junco
@vast forum lower value, lasts longer. same cd. no circle.
and 'Aside from getting a GCB what can I hope for'
hollow stone
lone junco
i think mine is 405
unkempt shoal
Is it possible to do a macro that would change a spell when more than x targets are nearby ?
Would like to do that with Fan of Knives and Mutilate
dapper wraith
I would say no, but there are weak auras that do that for explosive, and they tell you how many are up, so...maybe?
lost sentinel
sounds super lazy lol
unkempt shoal
Kinda @lost sentinel xD
lone junco
🇱 🇦 🇿 🇾
brittle knoll
https://gyazo.com/212bff197dacea71f943bc514d6a3e36 @lone junco @ruby oxide This is the trinket Noobe was referring too. I didnt get lucky with a WF/TF on it sadly.
ruby oxide
@lone junco @brittle knoll thanks fellers. Guess I’ll pray to rngesus
wispy plaza
so is NP and DD over DD and TC now the way to go for azerite traits?
hoary crown
Is delaying Vendetta and vanish for a TB window when playing with master assasin any good ? :S
spice surge
Only the first NP is better than tc or DD
lone junco
@wispy plaza gonna be a blend based on ilvl. NP DD TC are all good choices. then 1ss if you want to run subterfuge.
rigid mango
I bet 10000 people have already asked this, but what made NP so good out of sorta nowhere
It was already good, but it seems nuts now
wary ice
Wasnt it simming incorrectly when it was released, or something
thats what i had thought at least 🤷
lone junco
@rigid mango the tick rate is now modified by haste.
it always did that, but now sims that way
cobalt pelican
depends on the alternatives in your gear really
lone junco
if you look at the charts. 1 is great. 2 and 3 are about as good as the other options.
cobalt pelican
the first is still more valuable than the rest
lone junco
3dd 1np then maybe tc or np or ss.
rigid mango
Coolio
I was just looking over the highest parsing guy on conclave hc and saw his NP was dealing an insane amount of damage
sour helm
whats better talent to use for m+ crimson tempest or hidden blades?
sour helm
yeah i thoug maybe with 3x echoing blades it would be good
lone junco
worst case you can sim with dungeon slice to see numbers. but it is bad for St.
sour helm
ah thanks
tired jewel
So when pooling energy, how much is you’re preference...
dusk pond
Has anyone sim’d the 415 Eternal Alchemists Stone? Any good?
lone junco
yes. it is not as good as the best. it is on the charts
dusk pond
Any charts? Didn’t see it on Wowhead class page
dusk pond
Ty ty
lone junco
but a 415 alch is on par with the 385-400 better trinkets
it is much better for outlaw cleave than sin st
dusk pond
I made one just because if nothing else it’d be nice for open world content. Currently wearing 385 dice and 400 kim razor. Looks like it’s the tinniest upgrade, maybe only just the same as the 400 razor.
round harbor
rigid sonnet
I need single target rotation advice
round harbor
Lol which one of you is this. Saying ss isn't that amazing in m+ anymore
I swear there is some serious brainlets in r/compwow
rigid sonnet
after doing my normal opener my 2nd TB comes off cooldown with just about 10 sec left on garrote on my target and garrote off cd
this usually ends up with garrote falling off for like 1-2 seconds unless I got crazy energy regen going on
is it better to let TB be off cd and hold on using it until I got all dots applied with lots of time
spice surge
I mean its true, ss isnt very amazing now, unless you're doing very small pulls
rigid sonnet
or do I reapply dots wasting a couple seconds of pandemic effect and keep TB on cd
spice surge
1 is fine for cp and then EB
rigid sonnet
or is it fine like I do now where garrote falls off for 1 sec
I'd imagine using a gcd in TB on a non posion ability would be a pretty huge waste of damage wouldn't it?
smoky fiber
probably wasting more damage not having garrote continuing to tick
you hit tb on cd but sometimes you have to rupture or garrote in it
rigid sonnet
ye I imagined so so deffo gotta change how I handle it rn
smoky fiber
thats just how it be
rigid sonnet
isn't it way more worth to just reapply dots a bit early before u go into TB?
smoky fiber
not sure, sometimes i do reapply dots early but not everything is static in a fight so shit happens
ideally you have both dots refreshed and energy pooled for the tb
but i wouldnt let them fall off at any point if possible personally
rigid sonnet
ye
doin fight where most of the time it's pretty patchwerk for a minute
so tryin to finetune my way of planning rotation to have it down to optimal level
guess I'll probably try to reapply dots a bit early before TB comes off cd
and just keep it on cd
that often drains my energy pretty hard right before TB tho
which leads to 2nd question
do I always want to pool a certain amount of before TB comes back up?
is it ok to not have any envenom debuff and no abilities done for like 3 sec to pool energhy?
obtuse ruin
do you guys use herodamage or bloodmallet?
rigid sonnet
especially pooling energy I'd love to be sure on
got moments where I can just sit and wait only autoattacking the boss for 4-5 seconds before TB comes back and dots have been applied
is it better to keep using abilities like envenom during this time?
or is it good to try and reach a large amount of energy
lone junco
@obtuse ruin raidbots.
dusk pond
@rigid sonnet I personally feel like I’ve felt positive results from pooling to full before a TB
rigid sonnet
I'll prolly stick to pooling energy for TB's then
just dunno if I'm valuing TB windows correctly
are they worth a ton of dmg?
or is missing 2-4 abilities during uptime due to energy starvation not that big of a deal
another thing tho
if I find myself in a situation where I'm capped on combo points and TB comes back up
do I use the 5 combo points envenom before I use TB for envenom debuff uptime during TB which leads to more double dose procs
grave elk
Should i swap rings for 15ilvls but lose like 20 dps? is there any bonus to boosting my ilvl that wouldnt show in a sim?
rigid sonnet
or is it more worth getting that envenom in during TB wasting the 1-2 points generated by TB?
round harbor
Use tb on cd
rigid sonnet
yeah I know that
round harbor
So why are u writing a book about it
round harbor
You use it on cd
rigid sonnet
that don't have anything to do with most of what I'm asking about tho
round harbor
Pooling and doing all kinds of fancy shit to get a global here or there is just a myth
round harbor
People in here that perpetuate that pooling is better and all that are just making shit up and have no factual evidence that it's better
Not saying you, but there is a few
rigid sonnet
so the TB windows are not at all a large amount of what delivers damage?
lone junco
@grave elk ilvl is stamina
rigid sonnet
cause if I can do 30% increased damage on a bunch of ability uses just by planning and using them during TB instead of outside of it that seems like it'll make a pretty large diference
just looking to try and find facts on in depth priority ability usage to add to my memory and use whenever I play the game
lone junco
more important: Use the tb on cd. and dont miss a cast for fight duration
rigid sonnet
that's how I play
rigid sonnet
right
round harbor
Thanks windows are overrated. Just try your best hit it on cd
It's not something 3000 Iq talent
Pretty much you are going to get two envm in the the window just playing naturally no matter what
marble hemlock
and if you pool you get 3
warm canopy
Lol pooling some energy for TB is always worth it
marble hemlock
saying "theres no evidence that pooling is better" after 14years of rogue gameplay have involved pooling energy to utilize resources better is a bit.... disingenuous. or ignorant
warm canopy
^
rigid sonnet
yes but I'd like to know what precisely is the optimal thing to aim for
and then know what to always try to do
marble hemlock
you dont want to have to press garrote or rupture during TB
marble hemlock
and you want to go into TB with as much energy as possible
to ideally get 8 GCDs into TB
which will rarely happen without BL and/or vendetta or insane critluck
rigid sonnet
so is sitting just autoattacking for up to 5 seconds just before TB to pool almost full energy ready for TB fine?
marble hemlock
technically you also wanna pool around EP windows
but that ones not nearly as important
marble hemlock
elaborate planning
rigid sonnet
my head spinning rn
marble hemlock
t1 talent
rigid sonnet
ah yeah
marble hemlock
dont concern yourself with that (yet)
rigid sonnet
what do you mean by pooling around EP windows? if u don't mind explaining.
round harbor
Clipping ep windows
Using an envm or mut at the last very millisecond of the ep buff and making sure you get energy to cast a few things inside of it
rigid sonnet
mm yeah I believe I do that
while outside of TB or other temporary damage buff I don't sit right on the GCD spending energy as soon as I can
try to wait and chill until I'm low on EP
marble hemlock
ye pmuch
marble hemlock
basically trying to get the next 2 styles and finisher into the EP from the previous one
round harbor
Aslong as you aren't refreshing garrote rup outside of pandemic windows u are fine
To achieve that
rigid sonnet
lemme see if thre was anything else I was looking to know
marble hemlock
i.e. cast rupture, get 2 mutilates+the envenom into the EP from the rupture, then get 2 mutilates (or 1 if doublecrit) into it etc.
eventually you wont have the energy to do it
at which point you pool
idle ember
I keep getting 1-2 seconds left on my TB where I can blow out another 4+ envenom JUST as my rupture is about to end.
rigid sonnet
I see well yeah I've always been trying to make as much as possible out of EP so that's good I believe
round harbor
EP is fun but pretty minor
rigid sonnet
back to what to try and do right before TB tho
in log I linked I do my normal opener undisturbed
2nd TB is back up when I have like 10 sec left on garrote
usually leads to garrote falling off
do I sacrifice the 4 seconds that'll be wasted applying garrote early outside of pandemic?
do I apply during TB
round harbor
Never apply outside of panfemic
rigid sonnet
or do I accept it maybe falling off for a sec if I'm low on energy after TB is done?
marble hemlock
dont let it fall off, and dont sit on TB too long
rigid sonnet
I felt like reapplying during TB or letting it fall off for a couple ticks would be worse for dps
marble hemlock
if you dont get 3 envenoms in because of it, so be it
its not the end of the world
rigid sonnet
so I thought reapplying outside of pandemic would be the best
marble hemlock
its just a general guideline to do it
round harbor
Think about it like this. Everytime u wait 3 globals waiting on the by the end of the fight ur gonna miss at least one that usage
rigid sonnet
so just don't let it drop off
marble hemlock
but having 100% uptime and using as many TBs as possible is still higher priority
rigid sonnet
if I gotta reapply during TB I do?
round harbor
Yes
marble hemlock
if it lines up in that way, then you just gotta garrote mid-TB
rigid sonnet
so really stay away from doin outside of pandemic and letting them drop off
sounds good, thanks
round harbor
That's why I said pooling isn't great. It's not ideal all the time
But if and when you can do it,sure
rigid sonnet
ok think I learned all I could think of right now then
round harbor
Just playing normally and keeping dots up your gonna be getting 90s pretty easily
rigid sonnet
tyvm for answers and srry for bad formulating of my answers, I always chose to do this inbetween progress pulls which jumbles my brain realbad
round harbor
To get much higher parses it's the tiny things like pooling and ep clipping. But a majority of it is killtimes, group comp, padding, and ability rng
rigid sonnet
yeh I can't really change things and look at dps to see what works better
nimble tartan
tfw all u want is a champions helmet but youll never get it
rigid sonnet
too much rng with extra combopoints and doubledose
lone junco
@nimble tartan you'll always be a champion to me.
rigid sonnet
oh I just realised I've been using my opulence crown azerite pieces cus I was getting the daily gem, Scent of Blood/SS prolly wasn't better than DD/NP 😒
rigid mango
Are you guys using highest statted food or just the sausage?
lone junco
@rigid sonnet equip the hat. pull a gem. then swap back to DD/NP.
timid plume
Noticed on the website ravenholdt for MA opener they want me to, Garrote, Mutilate, Rupture, Vendetta, Vanish, TB. Isnt it bad to use tb after vanish i feel like i lose a lot of MA buff on that=
?
lone junco
Tb crits pretty big. But you'll see logs of tb before vanish as well.
Tb vanish env mut env.
timid plume
Master Assassin talented
Garrote
Mutilate
Rupture
Vendetta
Vanish
Toxic Blade
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Envenom
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Envenom
that opener
i just dont feel like its rewarding enough
the last mutilate doesnt get MA buff
lone junco
Then tb before. And pray for Mut crit.
opal minnow
same idea, half the length and crit
rigid sonnet
blueh
round harbor
@gusty kestrel what I'm saying is that worrying about pooling for tb doesn't matter as much as it's asked in here
round harbor
Lop
marble hemlock
like, you even said yourself
round harbor
Rotation helper btw
lone junco
player mistakes are probably on the order of 10% but thats the diff between Player and sim.
but still blue/purp
lots of ways to have shitty play. and skuffing cds is a good one.
round harbor
I mean
lone junco
biggest one I see is fucking up the vanish. thats huge
round harbor
Anecdotal sure but I can consistently get decently high parses playing with out worrying for one second about tb windows
? My ui
A add-on?
Ok
Your point?
Lol
Go deeper and look at my ret logs or enhance logs without it
If you think I "need" it you are sorely mistaken
marble hemlock
its a dps increase. stop claiming it isnt
round harbor
I use it as a tool
marble hemlock
stop claiming "its 0.1%" when you dont have data to support that claim
round harbor
@gusty kestrel only time I've ever been benched is cenarius
And helya, for other reason
Go ahead and argue that hekili makes me dumb tho
vital haven
with toxic blade and subterfurge/ss, before using the second vendetta should i wait for vanish and then use vendetta or use the vendetta as soon as it comes off cd?
round harbor
And @gusty kestrel ur parses from past tiers are identical to mine so why even bring it up lol
frozen karma
Think the Zandalari will have decent PVE racials?
round harbor
@marble hemlock my claim is that it's so minor, for a player to waste brainpower on it isn't generally worth it
marble hemlock
maybe other players have more brainpower to spare
round harbor
For someone like you who has been playing rogue for eternity it doesn't cost brainpower
round harbor
But for new players asking when to use tb it might be
marble hemlock
"its a dps increase, but for a player whos new to the rotation its not something they should c oncern themselves with from the start"
but multiple times youve been straightup saying "its not worth it" or "its just like 0.1%"
which is false
and thats what people like tisu or me are upset about, people spreading misinformation
vital haven
i mean its not worth it, its just like 0.1%
marble hemlock
theres enough of that to go around with sites like bloodmallet not updating APL or shitty guides on numerous sites
ill ban you next time cornholi
vital haven
WOW
marble hemlock
(on stream)
vital haven
EVEN WORSE
round harbor
I've litterally said almost word for word of that in the past
Pardon me for using different phrasing today
?
Yeah inforgot
Using a tool to do things better is bad. Better uninstall big wigs and weakauars asap
Brb
Gonna take off my glasses too. Can't be seeing the game in 2020 vision either. That's cheating
cerulean walrus
Lmao
vital haven
tisumi makes a good point though i mean with automation looming in the future at some point robots will be playing wow for us
rotation helper is a step towards that
round harbor
I appreciate u checking out my twitch tho @gusty kestrel
Make sure u follow and subscribe when I'm big famous streamer
lone junco
marble hemlock
well thats the problem generally
if youre trying to be helpful, which is generally appreciated
you always gotta be careful about how you say it
or it might lead to misinformation
round harbor
I help people all the time 4head
Half my dm's are people asking me to look at their logs and how to get better. And in those reviews I go really in depth . In general chat not as much
lone junco
I honestly believe that providing the orange parse calculus to a new player is confusing. once they are in the purple range there are things to tweak, but until then, more important things to worry about.
but if people are looking to dial in. specifics are specific. and often very circumstantial answers.
tb is pretty straight forward though.
lone junco
❤
marble hemlock
instead of saying that the advanced gameplay moves arent worth it
lone junco
agree
round harbor
Arnt worth it at the moment
marble hemlock
sry, jaina prog while typing is hard
rigid sonnet
who do I send logs to git gud
rigid sonnet
so I've heard
round harbor
4head
marble hemlock
same
rigid sonnet
also I need reminder pls what exactly is pandemic times for garrote and rupture?
marble hemlock
actually
lone junco
@rigid sonnet 0.3 x duration. so rupture depends on cp spent.
marble hemlock
can type while pooling
round harbor
Big if true
round harbor
Ur such big brain u can write m+ guide between EP windows
lone junco
big brain discord while working.
marble hemlock
and 6sec for 4cp rup
lone junco
marble hemlock
i mean everyones thankful and appreciative of the people who go through logs or answer DMs and stuffies
just, you know, dont lie 😄
thats not too much to ask
esp when it comes to pooling, which is an important part of assa gameplay, always has been
pooling, for a top-end player, is the difference between 2 and 3 envenoms during TB
vast forum
Lying is only when it's on purpose
marble hemlock
for a lower-end player, it might be the difference between 1 or 2
knowing what youre saying is wrong is lying
anyway
semantics really
but pooling is an important lesson
for assa rogues
safe matrix
I've learned to stop answering questions when I've been drinking, cause I have definitely give bad advice in this channel before 😬
vast forum
Oh i didn't follow the full conversation, just saying, a lot of people in here say wrong things that they truly believe to be correct
safe matrix
I hate doing log reviews for azerite though since every rotation is slightly different
i miss the days of the one cookie cutter build/rotation in legion
vast forum
Including myself a few times 🤦
round harbor
@vast forum for different situations there is correct or wrong answeds
vast forum
I will follow the path of exsg for as long as it's viable
round harbor
I've seen people argue for like 20minutea about openers in here only to find out that the y don't have 'x' azerite trait
I'm a tb'er for life
vast forum
And it also always sims higher
lone junco
I play tb now. But liked Legion exang.
round harbor
Don't think I've ever used exsang in a raid
safe matrix
Also people often argue about one global, which amounts to like 0.05% dps difference
like bruh
vast forum
Aye
round harbor
Lol
safe matrix
I dunno, druid chat is meh but sub is dead 🤷
vast forum
Wtb proper outlaw azerite so i can go full meme
lone junco
current exang is just energy return. it doesnt do shit for me. no boners or peaks.
round harbor
Noobe even in m+ I don't take exsang. Not optimal but I've never been in a situation where it mattered to me
safe matrix
I don't think I could do that, i'd keep comparing hpal to antorus and isnt it shite
lusty narwhal
425 rastakhan dagger pog
round harbor
Pog
safe matrix
congrats 
vast forum
Gtfo
round harbor
Can't wait to get nothing on rasat
lusty narwhal
I had 1 piece of loot from 11 bosses prior to that
vast forum
Can't wait to never get a dagger above 415
round harbor
I got 415/410 daggers ATM so I can't complain too much, but it's tilting when people get hella gear on their alts Lol
Tuesday loot boxes are just depressing
lusty narwhal
Oath
vast forum
There's people simming 25k+ and i can't break 23k yet cuz 400 weps and no dice after 200 fhs
marble hemlock
when it comes to data-related questions, there is no "right" or "wrong"
its not a moral question
theres only accurate and inaccurate
frozen karma
I have a 425 GCB
sand whale
I want ML back
round harbor
I mean I'm fine with warforging, but Titan forging is too much
lone junco
TF is the time locked boss nerf.
round harbor
+10 is good rng and makes farm fun. People who only clear normal or heroic shouldn't out hear mythic raids
lone junco
I had 8 sockets at the end of last tier
vast forum
+10 on gear (not weps) would be fine
If you could also buy it with valor
I had 9 sockets at one point
Didn't feel good, just a bit lucky
Bring back predetermined sockets
lone junco
meh. I dont mind current tf wf socket shit. but the PL is gross in raid. 15 cloaks each raid and 0 daggers.
vast forum
Pl is just pure cancer for the game
lone junco
was nice to gear my pally in 1 night in a full plate 5man group
vast forum
Aye
lone junco
265 to 375
big fuck you would be to make all gear be personal Soulbound.
grats play your guy and get gear.
vast forum
I'd literally pay 3x the sub for a good wow
round harbor
PL is ions brainchild
lone junco
round harbor
Elitist jerks uses it so reeee let's make the whole world use it
And it didn't actually even solve any of the issues asccoiated with split runs really. Maybe minor but you can still class stack
And do cheeky shit like method and limit did
lone junco
if there is a way, it will be done
kill Rastaboss 35 times? easy
idc really. game isnt getting any better or worse with the PL vs ML. the daily wq grind is still there.
and boy do i hate quests of any kind.
light kestrel
anyone know if the gift of the loa set bonus is active in Battle of Daz?
round harbor
Spend 100m on every mat on multiple servers for minor gear upgrades fuckit sendit
No levels of minmaxing is offlimits and blizzard should've known that
sturdy python
Yes worgan
lone junco
I mean, when they get a bazillion subs or whatnot. and sponsors etc. get that money.
light kestrel
Sweet, I figured it would be, but blizz pulls some wonky stuff
spice surge
@light kestrel Yes, also in motherlode, kings rest, atal-dazar and the world zone
graceful vine
I might be bad. Swapped to Sin earlier and just realized that you can apply two different poisons. If you only apply Deadly, does that give you increase the damage or proc chance or are you essentially just losing out on the 2nd poison?
rigid sonnet
I got 9 sockets
sturdy python
Just losing out on crippling
graceful vine
sturdy python
Can apply 1 letahl and one non lethal poison
rigid sonnet
is worth 16-18 ilvls
round harbor
Crippling isn't a major deal and sometimes u even want to not use it
I think next week is an example where u might not want slows on shit in sanguine. I could have my weeks wrong though
lone junco
only time i turn mine off is the Snake ball in seth. maybe I should but i dont.
graceful vine
That makes sense
lone junco
I trix the tank, and fok like crazy and the snakes clear away quickly
guy picks the ball. I fuck the orb guardian.
round harbor
Yeah my groups generally don't even touch any mobs in there anymore
Death run is fairly standard I think
Or becoming atleast
lone junco
we dont die on purpose. guess thats whats holding us back
hardy anchor
Anyone got any tips on the best way to open on M Rastakhan? Should I be using Vanish or Vendetta on the adds?
round harbor
Yeah there is a few ways to do it. It's mostly to not get the reaping
rigid sonnet
any sweet spot on duration where you wanna be refreshing dots to make it fit well with toxic blade rotation?
finding way many situations where I'd have to use rupture or garrote during TB to keep it active
or throw a bunch of energy and wasted duration on reapplying right before TB comes off cd
are there any specific durations I can aim for to make it all fit well without too many of these situations or is it all too much down to rng
fluid mist
I find that it’s just practice tbh i liked fooling around with it and getting a feel for when to refresh and pool for effective tb windows without missing out on a cast. But i’m pretty sure somebody has done The math
Somebody always does :p not all heroes wear capes
open hazel
what's PL
spice surge
Personal loot
fading wigeon
@rigid sonnet nah. Just practice practice. Don't lose out on the pandemic refrshes
wary ice
I mean
Toxic blade is 9 seconds duration; full pandemic rupture window is 7.2 seconds so ur going to need a minimum of 16.2 seconds of rupture uptime for it to not die during TB and still get the refresh within pandemic after it ends
🤷 just tb on cd
Frost's got the idea, def seems like a thing you feel out
rigid sonnet
so when I get myself in the situation I should just stick to using TB and refresh my dots inside TB to make sure they don't fall off?
even if it takes up 2 gcds in TB?
wary ice
I mean yes
But you should also be making a note of that
and reviewing the logs to find out how u got in that situation
so you dont for the future
rigid sonnet
mm
wary ice
Like i personally dont hold envenoms enough
so im super choked for energy come TB time
cause i suck at this class
rigid sonnet
mm been spending tonight trying to re-figure out my priorities
doin more waiting shortly before TB comes back up for energy nd such
feelin pretty good so far but still gotta try n make sure I don't lose too many gcds in TB to reapplying dots
heavy skiff
Is it ok to be at 50-75 energy all the time to burn that in tb window? Instead of only pooling b4 tb
I mean as loong as i dont cap energy it shouldn't be a dps loss
Right?
rigid sonnet
for maximum output u want to try and go sort of up and down while TB is on cd using Elaborate Planning
I believe
lethal mauve
Need help what i do for miss my damage https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/btHAP1Xar84Lxjm6#fight=15&type=damage-done&source=17
Who have nice skill whith logs
rigid sonnet
so basically you try to have lots of energy after TB is done and u basically keep a rolling EP up
not using abilities on GCD but trying to fit things so just before the EP ends u refresh it with another finisher since there's no need to be spamming your abilities asap outside of a TB window
however this is a pretty minimal gain which I'm sure takes quite a lot of effort
chilling at sorta 50% is just fine I'm sure
as long as you don't overcap it's not a dps loss as you said
heavy skiff
And is it worth pooling extra energy to get 3 envenoms inside tb? Altho u overlap ep? Or is 2 envenoms the optimum?
Oh on
Ok
rigid sonnet
nah I'm pretty sure u want to be getting max amounts of envenoms inside TB
ignore overlapping EP in TB
that's just some stuff u can try to maintain outside of it
if u got the energy and time for it in between refresing dots and TB coming back
round harbor
@lethal mauve first things first, your garrrote is 80% uptime, and rupture is 84%
heavy skiff
Ok ty
rigid sonnet
pooling for more envenoms in TB is nice
round harbor
also your missing a vendetta use
round harbor
almost 8 minute fight with boss at 55% and u only used vendetta three times
heavy skiff
Yep i normaly sit at 50-75 energy and try to pool before tb and already having 3 or 4 cp
So i can tb env and try to fit 2 more envenoms inside
rigid sonnet
sounds good
round harbor
you only used 12 TB's in a 7:43 fiight. should be quite a few higher
rigid sonnet
other than keeping your dots up always getting as many envenoms off in TB as possible is the go to idea
heavy skiff
Ok ty
lethal mauve
Ty guys rly help
round harbor
you are using +27 ring enchants instead of +37. which for mythic prog is a no-no
strange python
hey guys i got a question to the opening with master assassin talented. Shouldnt the Vanish be casted after you multilated till 4++ combo points, so that you can do 2 envenoms with the master assassin buff ?
On ravenholdt the vanish is casted immediately after the vendetta
rigid sonnet
I agree with u, can't see using TB instead of a mutilate/envenom during MA being better
and not like putting the vanish on cooldown 1 gcd earlier makes a big difference
strange python
Yeah it makes a huge difference in burst dmg. Also i think that 1-2 weeks ago it was not in the current order 😄
rigid sonnet
I personally always go to 4/5 combo points with mutilate and then Envenom>Mutilate>Mutilate/Envenom in the 3 casts that I get
not easy to calculate which works best ingame either with so many rng factors
but I dunno
rigid sonnet
someone might know better why it says to do it like that on raveholdt
how old is guide?
strange python
I dont know, there is no date written it seems 😄
rigid sonnet
I guess it's just down to hoping for good rng
if u Vanish>TB>Env>Mut over Vanish>Env>Mut>Mut then a crit on TB would do more dmg than crit on Mut
given that the tooltips shows damage correctly and there's no doublehitstuff that I'm unaware of
but since there's the Double Dose trait
a crit with that on your 2 Muts in option 2 would prolly outdo a TB crit by a lot right?
maybe low chance of that critting tho and thus it's overall safer to do TB in vanish
strange python
I dont even think that the multilates have to crit but both envenoms
heavy skiff
I do tb vanish mut env mut
rigid sonnet
yeah in opener 2 theres also the chance the the 1st Mut double hits and u can do another ENV in MA
which I guess is huge
so if you're willing to risk the reward then doing it with vanish after TB can reward the highest damage by far
if that's how simple the abilities work
strange python
Yeah thats my feeling aswell, especially because i think if you have enough haste you can always atleast cast 2 multilates (if one should not hit for 4cp) if needed and still be able to cast the second envenom with master assasin.
if thats somehow plausible 😄
Because currently i always get 2 envenoms off while MA is active
scarlet wing
which m+ to farm for fastest weapons
lone junco
minor thicket
What’s the best horde race for assassination for racial?
rigid sonnet
yeah not sure if u can get the 4th ability in it but I don't feel that a crit TB can outweigh a crit 4CP Envenom or another Mut with good double dose chance
lone junco
Feeeeeeeeeel that env crits can be 50-80k on vendetta.
rigid sonnet
speaking of which
lone junco
So critting tb is baby shit.
rigid sonnet
ye
strange python
Yeah i have the same experience
lone junco
And dd crits can be 30k.
strange python
Yeah and wiht double dose traits, as you already mentioned, it hits really hard
rigid sonnet
when is this guide from?
lone junco
It's up to date. Unless it isn't.
rigid sonnet
hm
strange python
classic 😄
lone junco
I don't like vanish tb. Takes micro management of cps.
rigid sonnet
anyone know if the envenom increased posion application buff increases ur chances of proccing DD?
lone junco
By definition yes.