thats good I guess
#assassination
obtuse ruin
inner pecan
the trait isn't bugged it's just old raids being weird when solo'd
hollow stone
Yea
obtuse ruin
im guessing it wont bug out if someone else pulls before I garrote
inner pecan
no
hollow stone
@strange python i think youre in the wrong spot. This is specific assassination rogue discussion. If you want info about sin rogue, here's the place but if its general info like how to power level, youre in the wrong spot
strange python
@hollow stone where should i go?
sorry im really new to this game ;-;
Btw, The defensive traits. Is there any that stick out, except for The Shield and Vampyric? Or are they just bad? Footpad? Self Reliance?
hollow stone
Start with google or reading guides on wowhead. Then you can either use this disc, #wow-general, or a spec specific channel depending on the questions you have. Good luck!
strange python
i found this place via google
vestal wren
fastest way to lvl is to buy a lvl boost, what spec you lvl with does also not rly matter. In fact i think sin is maybe slightly worse then the other 2 for lvling
delicate crater
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
limber plover
anyone having an issue where vendetta breaks stealth? I can't figure out what's doing it. it's not a macro
strange python
Hey, anyone have a short list of which azerite pieces have both SS and EB?
limber plover
I'm not using a trinket.
it's not macro'd at all, dragged from the spellbook just to be sure
shy axle
@strange python IV or wowhead guide, myth+ section
limber plover
I've noticed it proccing my wep enchants too which is peculiar
hollow stone
Idk what the prob is since you shouldnt be using vend from stealth anyway (maybe in arena)
limber plover
you use it the gcd before opening. since its on the gcd now it's a loss to push it after combat begins
cobalt gyro
@strange python FH shoulders/Shrine helm
hollow stone
That is very wrong information
vagrant trellis
What happened since Nothing Personal sims higher than anything else
hollow stone
I suggest you check out the openers in pins or found on ravenholdt
The sim was correctly updated @vagrant trellis
No change to the trait
Or other traits
limber plover
that's irrelevant to the actual problem anyway
its not supposed to be breaking stealth
delicate crater
So looking at Herodamage's revised NP stacking, it should be bis to stack this 3x?
cause Raidbots isn't giving me that result
limber plover
vendetta doesnt do damage
inner pecan
it does if you have NP
cobalt gyro
^
hollow stone
Could be that the np trait is breaking it
cobalt gyro
it is only with the NP trait
hollow stone
But again, if you do the correct opener its a non issue
limber plover
ahhh fuck. that'll be it won't it? my bad, just resubbed so the trait's new to me
hollow stone
@delicate crater check that youre using nightly sim first. If yes, check time on the sim. Keeping in mind that a 5 mins fight does not allow for a 4th vend
delicate crater
so with NP, especially stacking it, wouldn't I want to TB before popping Vendetta?
inner pecan
why do you figure that
hollow stone
Ideally, you want tb as your first gcd in vendetta cause tb hits hard and youd like it to benefit from the vend dmg
But. Tb withint vend window at any time is fine as long as you get the full tb window in the vend window
inner pecan
either way, using it before would mean 8s of TB-buffed NP dmg, using it after means 9s of TB-buffed NP
delicate crater
yeah i think it might be a wash
inner pecan
naw it's not a wash
delicate crater
3x NP buffed by TB or the other way around
inner pecan
it's strictly better to use after in all situations
NP lasts for 20 seconds
TB lasts for 9s
so as long as you TB in the first 11s of your vendetta you're getting full value from it
delicate crater
makes sense
inner pecan
Using it before would completely waste 1s of it as well as wasting a GCD in your TB window doing absolutely no upfront dmg
zinc zephyr
is 3SS + 3EB the best possible m+ gear?
delicate crater
so im still going to get the max benefit to NP dot using TB after Vendetta
PLUS ill get a vendetta buffed TB
inner pecan
as long as it's in the first 11s yes @delicate crater
golden relic
primal gazelle
sounds fun af
inner pecan
what you could do instead is not hold TB
vendetta on CD
TB 10s into your vendetta, then vanish
it's a free extra TB
primal gazelle
why not hold vendetta/vanish for 10 secs instead of tb for 15?
or what famo said above
nimble tartan
Well I've found myself in situations where my TB up and vendetta vanish up in 15 secs and in my head it felt nice to wait and just vend tb vanish and rng
But yeah I would get another TB I overlooked the fact that youd forsure get another cast of Tb in vendetta cause I wanted to get the Tb in my ma buff
inner pecan
yeah you'd just hold your vanish for the late TB like I said
nimble tartan
Yeah that makes a lot of sense to me
strange python
guys...which talent build i should play with 2x DD 1x NP 2x covenant and 1x DitB ?
on singletarget
serene basin
toxic blade prob
strange python
and second tier, doesnt change?
serene basin
ya prob MA as well
primal gazelle
does MA make NP ticks crit? 🤔
inner pecan
yes
nimble tartan
I need a bigger plumage 😭
strange python
jeez i cant sim it yet, bcs that azerite piece is not upgraded
inner pecan
@delicate crater yes it should
nimble tartan
Famo are u a vanish tb in opener boy or a tb vanish env boi
inner pecan
NP 2nd and 3rd trait are not worth as much as TC, you can hover over Herodmg rankings and see @delicate crater
NP 2nd trait is 4.11% increase, TC is around 4.3% per stack
primal gazelle
then how come you use 3 NP?
inner pecan
I don't have TC in the slots where I have NP on any of my gear
but on Jaina prog I prefer not to use TC anyways
primal gazelle
ah
inner pecan
@nimble tartan Vanish Env Mut Env is what I do because with triple DD my Mut hits harder than TB
So even if I miss the crits I still gain more from Mut than TB in MA window
nimble tartan
👏 👌
primal gazelle
would you use throw knife to gain that 5th combo point before your vanish envenom->mut->env?
nimble tartan
Dont do that !
inner pecan
never tried or simmed it but
primal gazelle
so finish at 4? or mut again for a 5th
inner pecan
with 3DD if anything I'd rather mutilate again for 10 more energy
but right now I just finish @ 4
primal gazelle
ic
hollow stone
"The only sub rogue ive seen all tier is the follower from my boat"
mint peak
Mutilating again at 4CPs when you could just envenom-mut-envenom or envenom-mut-mut-envenom makes no sense
Don't do that
hollow stone
@primal gazelle having flashbacks to sitting in vanish w lego shoulders... ma during np discussion
sturdy python
Is that a thing people are talking about?
hollow stone
I hope not
He just asked "does ma make np ticks crit?" Im predicting the next stage of that question
nimble tartan
Yooo sitting in vanish forever crit big brain
hollow stone
Im assuming it wont be a thing now because of how much dmg AAs and DP does
But who knows...
primal gazelle
that was a thing in legion? lmao
hollow stone
It sure was
hollow stone
Yup
100% crit on dots was more dmg than autoing. At least at some points, i dont member the details. Deleted from brain
primal gazelle
epic gameplay
stable oxide
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
round harbor
Nah the better play was the throw knife opener and then the take mutilate off your bars build tbh
Those there way fun
sturdy python
It sort of was, if you waited too long you risked being knocked out of stealth
nimble tartan
i wish they kept the knife throw azerite
hollow stone
Was that the ns "snapshotting" dp for the whole fight?
@nimble tartan i think youre alone on that one :p
lone junco
nah. hes talking about the stack to 30 and throw for mega knife
hollow stone
Oh boo
nimble tartan
with ma WOOO
lone junco
I liked the NSDP. was pressure to keep that up for fight duration. like turn and throw during mechanic
round harbor
I was talking about DP gaining strength as the fight goes on
lone junco
150k knife time
round harbor
Do like insane dpsnon gorothi
lone junco
step/knife fokfokfok
glass seal
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
untold stream
Do you play with Master Assassin with 3 double dose and no Shrouded ? I just dropped my 3rd and it makes me remove my SS, so I'm wondering, since I've played with subterfuge since the beginning of BfA
tacit wing
NP simming higher than SS now?
opal minnow
they adjusted the values in simc a couple days back so that it corresponds more closely to real world values
stable pine
So NP is now the most wanted trait?
opal minnow
you'd still want to sim yourself, but i imagine 2 or more NP traits will sim better than previously
hearty juniper
Serious question here, anybody having energy regen problem?
Im serious having problem just keeping garrote and rupture up.... wtf
opal minnow
are you using vigor?
hearty juniper
yes
spice surge
You only want 1 Np still
The rankings of the trait didnt change at all
Its better than some other traits, but not better than the best ones (tc and dd)
hearty juniper
well im on 4 both on BOD, and 3 first bosses it was all fine. Now after I cant regen for shit
boss*
im almost auto attacking cause I cant regen
opal minnow
did your poisons fall off lol
hearty juniper
no
wild mural
Are your daggers broken
hollow stone
Its best if you link your log so we can actually answer
hearty juniper
I relogged and it worked... dunno what that was
hollow stone
As for the energy starved, its all a matter of perspective. You can play sin with 0 haste and it'll still work (wont be good, but it still works). Keep rupt and garr up as your top priority. Only envenom when you know you can still keep your bleeds at even if you get back to back non-crit muts. Sin is a slow spec, dont expect to be pushing a button every gcd
hearty juniper
ty anyway=)
inner pecan
@valid cipher Not an NP bug just a general Azerite trait bugged, sometimes they randomly stop working in the raid
valid cipher
really?
inner pecan
You need to unequip and reequip the item
valid cipher
ah
hearty juniper
Whats the best trinkets atm?
hollow stone
On use: gcb, plumage, or pvp trinket. On hit: deadeye or dice. But its best to check out bloodmallet/hero dmg and sim your own char
T23 now, aint it?
hollow stone
!ct
prisma monolithBOT
There is no specific week or affix that makes one or the other more viable.
CT vs PB is mainly down to your group, the dungeon itself and your pull sizes, with PB naturally having an edge in boss fights.
It's mainly the combination of affixes and dungeons that favour one or the other. High Tyr KR/Temple favour PB in general, due to low pulls and harder bosses.
In terms of Exsang vs TB; Exsang wins since it works well with SS traits and it's only 1 global on your priority target for some burst damage and extra energy.
TB usually locks you to that target to gain the most out of it.
hollow stone
Also. Eb changes the math
So depends how many eb you got
And the key. And your group. And your tank's pull size
hushed maple
whast eb?=
opal minnow
Echoing blades
hushed maple
aaaaaaaah
lost sentinel
I got 3eb+2sob+1ss, so I've been going with hidden blades or poison bomb, poison bomb so far this week but haven't ran much
hollow stone
I have the same set up, i also go pb
zenith stone
is 22% crit to low or does it really not matter
i have 22% crit 22% haste 33% mastery
lost sentinel
crit helps but a large portion of EB damage is just the added damage itself
and crit will be your highest stat weight with EB for sure
I mean, it typically is for M+, but no contest with EB
zenith stone
ah right thankyou
primal gazelle
your crit is waaaay too low for m+
primal gazelle
then thats fine, sim yourself to be sure tho
zenith stone
i will have a play with some sims
i currently sim at 22,857 DPS but i dont think thats to good at 401ilvl
valid cipher
@inner pecan thanks for the tip btw
hearty juniper
21.5K Here with 399
wild mural
You can always run a stat weight sim and see what secondaries your build is currently leaning towards.
nimble tartan
2 np is more than fine shouldnt tell people they only want 1
My 2nd np and 2nd tc are within like 20 dps of each other at 100% tc uptime
So I just put on another np
3 dd 2np 1 tc my setup atm
warm geode
tc can help with more then 1 target, np not .-.
fiery cradle
i was simming at 20.8k @ 406 ecksdee
scarlet sequoia
well traits make a massive difference, i was 407 simming 21.8k, now i got some good azerite i sim 24.6k with 409 ilvl
fiery cradle
ye i'm 409 with decent azerite now and i'm like 24.3
elfin plaza
Simming high af at 401 23.8k
elfin plaza
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/64Qp6UMWRgJy15wyfDGFru
have a "couple" sockets and set bonus for raid
primal gazelle
@sullen pagoda can u swap to 3 dd 3 np and link the sim?
buoyant coyote
^
sullen pagoda
@primal gazelle https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/enJMm34ReVgwo9jnd9tzfe
primal gazelle
hm ty
strange python
Hey guys i am having a little bit of a problem with simming azerite traits. I have two double dose traits(with Master Assasin) but not a single SS-one. I could however change one double dose to SS. Two double dose sim higher than one double dose and one SS, but i know that the SS-snapshotting was not simmed correctly on raidbots.
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/d7yaeFY5qz7JosKnom8vjJ
so i am not sure now if i should take two double dose or one double dose and one SS
raw tusk
Do you guys use your energy soon as its available and pool for certain things or do you sit at like mid energy at all time
strange python
i am mostly using it as soon as it is available tbh
except i know when there is a situation where i need it
like add spawns
opal minnow
i really only pool a few seconds before tb
raw tusk
that what i do but i just clicked on perfecto's stream and methods raiding and he sit at like like 60-100 mostly
sour sonnet
I pool before using TB
raw tusk
wish i could see their logs
dapper wraith
on opulence do you guys grab opal or emerald? assuming opal but I could be wrong.
raw tusk
thats what ive been taking
had another rogue take emerald and swears by it but unless you got a big grip and slow for adds it drops fast
round harbor
Opal or Ruby are both good
feral flower
what u guys think spending TR on? Chest or Shoulders?
If both are equal atm before 415 purchase
feral flower
Well isn't our BIS chest a bit deep in the instance? So I guess chest would be better ideally atm
feral flower
..
granite rampart
you generally want to take opal if you’re getting 3 sets of adds on opulence. if not take emerald. but on mythic as assassination you’ll probably be stuck with ruby either way so 🤷♂️
feral flower
yeah i had to go ruby for our kill
wooden fog
Sub Tub, I'd recommend spending it on chest because the first 2 bosses drop our bis helm and shoulders, the chests in BoD isn't that great
dapper moat
Yeah im on ruby duty 24/7 🤣
cloud iris
Is treacherous covenant supposed to sim higher than nothing personnal even after the apl change?
feral flower
@wooden fog Yeah that's what I figured
Running 400 mekka atm but would like one with SS
Since any of my pieces with SS atm are sub 3% decrease via sims
lusty narwhal
TC is fine
feral flower
415 helm is throwing me off too... scent, DD and OP... yuck
lusty narwhal
I sim higher with more tc than np atm 🤷🏻♂️
jaunty crystal
try putting TC at 80-90% uptime if you havent
feral flower
what telnts u simming as?
Make sure you're using correct talents .. that could be the culprit as well
stiff crag
trying to improve my cleave dmg, I do have 1+ SS traits any tips other than garrote on 3x targets during opener?
spice surge
So what you're gonna do is garrote 1, garrote 2, garrote 3
feral flower
Nice grabbed a Raiment 415.. not bad
stiff crag
just started doing that, then I focus main target and FoK to keep deadly poison on the others
peak saffron
are you asking for m+? @stiff crag
stiff crag
sorry no, raiding
cleave fights that last several minutes I guess
or longer than m+ trash packs
peak saffron
applying 1-3point ruptures to targets that live along enough to get value out of it will help with cleave as well. you just need to gauge their health pools and decide if it's worth it or not to apply a low combo rupture to them
stiff crag
I'm trying to learn at how many mobs do I just spam FoK and envenom at full CPs vs keeping my bleeds rolling on all targets. Where is that line
thorn juniper
I'm pretty bad a Rogue, I know my starter sucks and my rot sucks
When I read online, they say the rotation but many times I comes short of 2 CP
hollow stone
once you have 5 ruptures out, you will be energy capped
does that answer your question?
peak saffron
I believe it's at 4+ targets without any echoing blades traits is when you want to FoK adds, while envenoming main targets
stiff crag
👍 I'll make some adjustments and see how it goes, thanks
peak saffron
yeah. it's all about gauging if it's worth applying rupture to off-targets or not
stiff crag
only 4-5 CP ruptures?
peak saffron
depends on health pools
thorn juniper
I start off by doing garotte, then mut, then rupture, mut, mut , env
stiff crag
or okay to do 1-3 CP Ruptures on off targets
thorn juniper
Is that ok ?
stiff crag
k
hollow stone
I think the "fok rules" are in the pins but.. with eb and no dd: fok @ 2 targets.. with dd and no eb: fok @ 4 targets
peak saffron
^
dull wraith
Hey guys just got the mekkatorque trinket last night? What’s the best way to use this trinket? Specifically with another on use trinket with a 2min CD. Do I use the oscillator on CD with when it reaches max stacks or do I try line it up with a vendetta and use them together?
spice surge
Use it at max stacks
hollow stone
you will energy cap with 5 ruptures out. If you aren't capping energy or over capping CPs, you're not losing potential dps
dull wraith
Is it worth delaying tb for it or vendetta?
fluid mist
Getting a 425 trinket from second boss and The shit stats bracers from 1st 4 kills 4 coins on both bosses on mythic No bloody azerite
spice surge
TB no, vendetta yes if you are 100% sure you will not lose a cast of it
fluid mist
Don’t we all just love rngesus
dull wraith
Okay thanks ! Also simmed myself and it recommends my 400 oscillator and my 395 lions guile which is has a 2 min CD, if I’m using two on use how best do I optimise these cds? Previously I’ve just been using my lions guile with vendetta on CD
spice surge
The oscillator does not share cd with other on-use trinkets
dull wraith
Oh so I can just pair them together
elder cypress
hey can someone help me with my sim? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/tSbC7JL3bgWFxQ47qUWyd2 i dont know if NP or treacherous trait
crystal vault
sim top gear ?
finite yarrow
Whats the best opener for 3x dd and ma,tb
lone junco
its in the guide
finite yarrow
O rite, my b
fading wigeon
How high can the first mate spyglasses titanforge?
quick ice
Same as anything else. Up to 425, but you need godly luck
tired thistle
Is hidden Blades worth it for M+ over Poison Bomb?
strange python
No, PB or CT
tired thistle
Do you use CT in like a macro with Envenom i would hate to have another Hotkey i need to remember i have so many 😦
lone junco
no
what
i use 6 for rupture and shift 6 for ct. figure it out.
you cant macro Ct to envenom.
lost horizon
I mean you can
But it'd be horrible
Sin already has like barely any buttons, find another key for it
tired thistle
I have 22 Keybindinds right now on my Rogue
sturdy python
How would you even macro that
lone junco
it would use the first /cast. and not have cps for the second
sturdy python
Thats still another bind
You can do that for any abilities, make one macro with 3 abilities - base, ctrl and shift
But its still the same amount of binds
lone junco
i dont have flask bound.
lone junco
evasion is z
lost horizon
So again, only pressing a few regularly
lone junco
I even have room for smoke bomb, and i dont use it
and the stealth bar is a copy of the first bar
sturdy python
Anyways the answer is yes you can macro them and add a modifier
lone junco
get a razer naga. or equiv, and never run out of binds again
tired thistle
Lol i have a Hex and have binds on that aswell
tired thistle
Dont have any garbage KB's all used often
lost horizon
Often
lone junco
then dont use ct I dont care
lost horizon
2min CDs
lone junco
PB works
lone junco
this is it. cheapshot is on stealth 3. feint vial are on the right side.
do you only have like 3 fingers on your left hand? that would make a difference.
nvm i only use 3 for dps really.
zempai clicked his stuff even
lone junco
i have had that 2nd trinket bind since BC. and its never a use lol
pvp binds get out of hand with blind 1/2/3. and kick 1/2/3
if thats the problem, then meh. not my problem.
lol i still have garrison utility and garrison hearthstone on my bar
havent used cannibalize since like 2010 prob lol
gotta have a bind for lockpick too. yikes to click that one
desert vault
Ugh, SS has fallen so far behind in my sims, sad times
and I really don't want to play with Unstable Catalyst either ... so much work!
visual quartz
I know when using Exang, you should use GCB before as it snapshots. Does garrote and Rup just increase there speed when GCB is cast or should I cast it right before reapplying?
sturdy python
Exsang is an exception, most stuff does not snapshot
Theyre dynamic, so will change as buffs and debuffs apply and go away
honest needle
do u guys think its worth getting the random 415 azerite from the vendor or save for the better 1 of your choice ?
honest vessel
Random
raven mica
random until you have 415s that arent shit garbage in all ur slots
(A shit garbage piece would be something like the Waycrest chest for outlaw)
Actually even then its still probably worth it to keep doing randoms
raven mica
4 1/6 chances to get the piece you want by the time you get a specific
finite crow
yeah just take random
honest needle
ok
raven mica
what's ur mythic progression look like rn
finite crow
chest or shoulders
since helm you get from 1st boss and its bis
IF you are playing assa
raven mica
Well even for outlaw, head/shoulders from cotl/jadefire are close enough to BiS
strange python
i dont see any hotfixes for Vendetta trait why is it all of the sudden simming top??
lost horizon
Horde do grong 2nd yeah?
finite crow
yes
raven mica
yea
so we get the harder of the 2 first
plus alliance have the cheesiest warlock gate on jadefire
finite crow
allys succ )
nimble glacier
hey guys, on opulence, do u want to dot up the spirits, or just use fan of knives to generate more combo points and go ham on the boss
delicate crater
Does Bursting Blood compete with AGI Pot ?
lone junco
you can swap potions in the raidbots menu.
finite crow
its shit
lone junco
if it were unreasonably cheaper, I might consider it. but i doubt.
raven mica
idk i pop prolonged anyways cuz im cheap as shit
lost horizon
Ally gets a juicy lock gate for jadefire, but an annoying af pillar too
Realistically though none of those first3 matter
lone junco
@raven mica ha. same. 250x left. thanks to my friend applejuice
dark crag
My crit is back on track and keeps my versa in check
raw tusk
@nimble glacier I’m actually curious on that too
finite crow
adds wont live long enough that dotting them would be a good idea
atleast in my experience
civic forge
got the galecaller trinket. i thought you were supposed to start using exang every 1 minute instead of on CD, but sims tell me to use it every 45 sec
is it wrong now to hold exang for galecaller?
steep obsidian
civic forge
i've definitely read here that's what you did before. idk. ill just use exang on cd tho. thanks
hollow stone
Youre not crazy rolia. But that was like september when we were still figuring things out :p
grave elk
is stacking 3 shrouded traits bad?
and also that many shrouded traits seems like exsang would be better then toxic blade?
paper heron
is nothing personal as good as it sims?
grave elk
its kinda nice. with my current gear i can have 3 shrouded subs for single target. and if i go into m+ i have 2 echoing blade traits
paper heron
@buoyant flicker what do you mean
buoyant flicker
well double dose only does damage when ur actively on the boss
and when u dont have 100% uptime it loses value
so traits that require no uptime on heavy movement fights are really strong
like SS/NP
grave elk
with 3 SS traits should i run exsang over toxic blade?
buoyant flicker
sim it
grave elk
quick navigation and deadly navigation still the go to enchants on weapons?
buoyant flicker
sim it
scarlet sequoia
🤣
grave elk
so ive never used exsang. but when i watch ppl use it on streams it fucking melts. and ive never really had a reason to use it yet since it never sims well on me
so if i was gonna sim for m+. im assuming i should swap talents to my echoing blades from my ss correct? so it gets a proper reading?
buoyant flicker
wouldnt drop ss for eb tbh
grave elk
forreal?
buoyant flicker
ss is super strong
grave elk
lemme sim for m+ with ss. whats the best way? hectic add cleave? or what
prisma beacon
especially in m+
buoyant flicker
i usually sim 5 target 1 minute
prisma beacon
dungeon slice should be
buoyant flicker
for m+
grave elk
so on mob pull. do u just tab garrote the whole lot then focus one?
buoyant flicker
well i usually open on the casters
3 garrotes into CT
then start spreading ruptures with fok
until i maintain energy then i spam fok with a few EB traits
grave elk
ah ok. i have no EB traits atm unless i drop SS on my pieces
buoyant flicker
then just keep ruptures up and spend on CT
grave elk
okay got it
im 375 but i just got my dh to 381 and trying to decide which to main between the 2
grave elk
yeah dh just seems to get really dull. since its really bland.
grave elk
yeah lol. i feel like rogues that are good are godlike cuz it takes skill to min max. orplay at a highlvl. all dh are good atleast cuz its simple and over the top ez to perform
buoyant flicker
the problem with rogue is external factors effect you way more than on dh
stone fable
Does DD change rotation? I'm looking at logs, and fairly happy with them. But I notice several people are getting several thousand more dps out of their DD procs on the same fight. O.o
rustic ether
no dd doesnt
grave elk
external issues? like what tuning?
rustic ether
you prolly arent doing rotation correctly tho
grave elk
isnt dd double dose? isnt that just random?
slow mortar
9% outside of envenom, 36% during envenom
buoyant flicker
i meant mutilate
weak creek
tfw guild wants u to go ruby for some god forsaken reason 
buoyant flicker
assa rogue on ruby 🤢
cunning urchin
because we attack faster
buoyant flicker
only gets applied on spell use
cunning urchin
well your guild hates you then
buoyant flicker
assa high apm btw
grave elk
what gem should rogues be taking?
weak creek
its only spells that apply animus?
frozen karma
grave elk
ok so i see my aoe dps is slightly better if i get one echoing blade and remove an SS. but its not even 70 dps change
what does opal and emerald do?
rustic ether
emerald gives you 30% increased dmg while youre standing still (slowly stacks to 30%) and opal gives you 2% increased dmg for every enemy you deal dmg to
grave elk
oh gotcha
rustic ether
so opal is better if youre overall guild dps is low and emerald is if youre guild isnt brain dead and is killing the boss pretty quick
grave elk
well tbh ive only done the fight once on normal. and i swear i dont remember even seeing adds lol
but then again i wasnt really looking around much since it was normal
feral flower
415 Folly boyzzzz
rustic ether
@cunning urchin well get rid of the twist the knife, and get a 6th trait
thatll instantly get you about 1k dps lol
proven frigate
can you evasion coin shower on oppy?
rustic ether
@cunning urchin your opener is messed up
you need to be opening with Garrote, rupture, garrote, vendetta, mut, rupture, exsanguinate
shows on logs you just garrote garrote rupture vendetta exsang
@cunning urchin also this is pretty hard to do but you could have waited to put your vendetta INSIDE the heroism pop and still got that last vendetta
cunning urchin
ok i understand
my only other chest option is shrouded and echoing/ruinous
scent shrouded/echoing ruinous bolt*
rustic ether
whats your current chest youre running?
cunning urchin
It's twist the knife and shourded
which sims higher st than the other chest
vestments of indominable will
400
fallen rose
is razor claw actually good as a trinket iv heard people say its good and people say it doesnt proc like it should
cunning urchin
i'v seen it proc lots
fallen rose
christ it still doesnt outsim fathoms lol
rustic ether
@fallen rose for what ilvl?
cunning urchin
huh, mine sims 300 higher than fathoms
fallen rose
only normal lol
rustic ether
well yeah 385 trinkets are pretty close to fathoms
heavy skiff
Go fathoms then xD lower ilvl better % in logs
proud spruce
that apm chart makes me sad tbh
proud spruce
True, pressing the same abilities over and over for a higher apm class doesnt make it much more skillful either. Just honestly surprising how low those apm numbers are for all classes
obviously with GCD's and stuff you couldnt reach much higher apms but idk. still seems so low lmao
tame slate
I think it's been mentioned alot already, but losing Kingsbane felt like the biggest hit imo
Not that it changed APM, but at least gave another button
rustic ether
the fact that artifact weapons had multiple guarenteed traits that actually changed the speed or rotation, or even made you THINK for half a second of the trait
was taken for granted
tame slate
My only real issue with artifacts was that you had to level each spec separately. If they had made it to where you just applied AP to all specs, it wouldn't have gotten as much hate imo
But I get why it was the way it was
rustic ether
if they increased the ap requirement per level A LITTLE BIT and allowed for all three specs to absorb ap it would be smoother
plus every level of ap felt more empowering because you had to go to your CH and put in your level trait
tame slate
I'm just glad I got to play a lot during Legion. I don't really care about Ally v Horde, so having Legion focus around classes was the most fun I've had on this game
lucid geyser
Guys, quick question about Echoing Blades. Does stacking the trait only increase the damage of the initial fok, or does it adds to the damage of the echo as well ?
sturdy python
Both yes
lucid geyser
Damn, that's insane. Thanks for the answer
hidden haven
hey on raidbots in the raid buff presets section there is an option called bleeding what is that about?
ocean rampart
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
rustic ether
@hidden haven that might be for i think survival hunters or some sorta trinket that increases your dmg against targets with bleeds on them?
sturdy python
Has no affect on us. Ive is correct with survival hunters
tough whale
ofc thats the mythic weapon i yoink
latent field
No leech? Absolute trash
supple hearth
Proofs
hidden haven
thanks for the help
plush oasis
Why do I have a 395 dagger with better stats (according to my stat weights) simming almost 1% worse than my 385 dagger? Offhand.
I made sure the enchant was there.
quick ice
Socket?
plush oasis
No socket.
quick ice
Same enchant? How close are your stat weights?
plush oasis
All my secondary stats are close right now. The 385 is Crit>Haste, the 395 is Haste>Mastery and Mastery is a bit better than Crit in my weights.
supple hearth
@tough whale but u can't scrap, item restore then scrap it again. I bet u cant
tough whale
@supple hearth OK IM ON IT 
latent field
share the sim Keljran
quick ice
@plush oasis 🤷 I assume haste is ahead of both?
plush oasis
Haste is 2.92 vs Crit at 2.76 and Mastery at 2.88
Of course weapon damage is much much higher than any of those.
Hold on let me figure out how to link this.
latent field
your offhand has quick nav
plush oasis
Ahhh I see
latent field
which is a dupilcate of your main
plush oasis
Let me try to sim it again.
Yep I'm just dumb. For some reason I was assuming my MH enchant would be overwritten by the sim settings. Thanks.
That fixed the problem.
nimble tartan
nope
harsh goblet
knfhgjasdfnjhnsadfhgb
quick ice
@plush oasis for future reference, there's a checkbox in top gear that enables overwriting existing enchants .
quick ice
It's a recent-ish addition that has caught quite a few people out.
obsidian girder
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fimyVD6ELkGWruk2yQPevX
do i really sim so low because i dont have at least 2 DD traits ??
honest needle
can some 1 please help me
proud spruce
Yeah your shoulders/chestpiece dont have good choices for single target.
honest needle
sims are saying not to use any ss traits but i like the ss rotation and im trying to find the best gear out of what i have to wear https://gyazo.com/a8881b9dc476d681fc1f987e50844364
proud spruce
those shoulders are sick for mythic plus
honest needle
most fights have cleave so i feel like ss is good to use but sims for single target dont want me using any ss but theres only real 1 single target fight that dont have cleave
out of the gear i have can some 1 give me an idea for my best option
proud spruce
just stick with SS in your helm instead of DD and then use your best simming
honest needle
shouldnt i use more then 1 ss
looks like warcraft logs show people using multiple ss
proud spruce
I mean, yeah if thats what you want to do lol. You said you just liked the SS rotation so I figured you wanted the minimum amount
really confused what youre asking now
why not just ocpy the people on warcraft logs
if you dont wanna listen to your sims
honest needle
i want the best traits to use out of the gear i linkeds
cause sims are saying some dumb stuff
u cant really go just single target because only grong is single target
elfin fossil
No?
honest needle
so i cant figure out what traits r best for what i have
proud spruce
conclave you only have one active target
elfin fossil
Like 80% of the raid is ST
proud spruce
more than half the fights are single target easily
brisk drum
Does anyone else find it annoying how with SS vanish doesn't line up nicely with vendetta compared to ma
honest needle
but u cleave
elfin fossil
And conclave padding does nothing
proud spruce
yea not on your opener though
elfin fossil
Doesn’t count on logs
proud spruce
youre not cleaving with ss if you arent in stealth
elfin fossil
Since add gets full hp
honest needle
so should i not use any ss
proud spruce
thats why its a really good mythic+ trait, youre getting restealths off between every pack.
I wouldn't if your other pieces are simming higher no
not unless your wanting to run m+'s
elfin fossil
I’m using two SS and two DD, because SS is still super bursty damage.
And since it’s simming high. But 3xDD, 2xTC, 1xNP would sim higher for the raid.
proud spruce
yeah im using 2x DD 2xTC 2xNP that sims highest for me atm (with my gear)
master assassin is simming higher now too, having trouble with that opener
proud spruce
my other option is pretty shite from what i remember
elfin fossil
Looses alot of value on the second one AFAIK
honest needle
so then do u think im better off not using any ss
elfin fossil
I mean in the end it’s also about if your comfortable with the rotation aswell.
honest needle
i mean no ss is jsut default rotation right just garrote build 2 4 then rupture then tb build to 5 then finisher right
proud spruce
Yeah my two other options are scent of blood and echoing blades if I wanted to get rid of my 2nd NP
i guess echoing blades would be nice QoL but NP is simming higher
honest needle
i just wish i can use whats best for raid and m+ im so tired of changing all these traits its so fucking annopying
elfin fossil
Yeah.. guess EB is only really good on Opu
With opal
@honest needle welcome to bfa 😅
honest needle
so this seems to be whats simming best for me with no ss which really sucks https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/xwDXcT3Vh7L9hYQg7wpN9s
proud spruce
yea i agree day it is really annoying, shits gets expensive too
i feel like my warlock is unplayable having to swap between destro and afflic
honest needle
I really like ss
elfin fossil
I had 50k g to change traits before
tough whale
its p simple
honest needle
so u guys think for raid i shouldnt use any ss at all
on most fights like cov and jade u guys keep full dots on all adds right
brisk drum
Is it garrote, mutilate, rupture, vendetta, muti, toxic blade, vanish, envenom, muti, envenom?
proud spruce
Nope. I think the best thing is to learn the new opener that your best sim needs
brisk drum
That's what I've been doing, kinda winging it tho
proud spruce
and jade yes. on conclave you cant really full dot the adds
if youre able to full dot the adds then youre probabbly going to wipe
they shouldnt stay up that long
i usually throw a kidney on one, get an envenom off and back onto the boss
honest needle
what about conclave do u dot both active bosses fulltime
honest needle
im really mad right now i dont like this changing trait thing i wish i can find the best setup for both m+ and raid i dont wanna keep having to change fuckin traits
proud spruce
@brisk drum rotatition seems right
honest needle
this is ridiculous
so this is opener without ss - garrote, mutilate, rupture, vendetta, muti, toxic blade, vanish, envenom, muti, envenom?
proud spruce
yea
not too complicated
thats with master assassin as well
it will sim higher than subterfuge without SS
honest needle
wait im using subterfuge should i not
so the rotation i possted above is for master assasin and subterfuge without ss it works for both ?
proud spruce
without SS no
and yes it works for both it doesnt change anything
MA is just better
actually
youd want to vanish for your garrote later instead of vanishing for crit
honest needle
i see everyone on logs using subterfuge like 90 percent of people with ss\
proud spruce
so your vanish would be after your initial garrote falls off
honest needle
thats why it seems weird using no ss
brisk drum
Ah is empowered garrote even without ss better than the bonus crit on an extra envenom
honest needle
so for both master assasin and subterfuge u still vanish garrote ?
true gyro
No. Only for subterfuge
proud spruce
for master assassin you vanish into a free envenom crit
subterfuge empowers your garrote in the talent as well
so if youre running that instead of master assassin, youre using vanish differently
honest needle
ok
u guys use weekly or nightlybuild
when running raidbots
maybe im using wrong build
I have alot of ss traits so its weird to me nothing with ss is simming higher
proud spruce
whatever its normally set on, weekly is what i use
and yeah im pretty sure DD outsimming SS happened with this new tier so, its weird for everyone
brisk drum
I quite like ma now, took some time getting used to compared to ss+sub
honest needle
is elaborate plannign still best
only talent change is ma
u still use toxic blade right
cause i really dont like exxtangunate
is extang better for m+ ?
proud spruce
yeah elaborate planning and toxic blade are still better 95% sure
And im not sure about extang sorry, pretty sure you only use it if youre using crimson tempest though
honest needle
so ma only sims better by 0.4 percent which is only 70dps so im prolly better off with subterfuge right since i kno rotation
this is the gear i have can some 1 give me my best options for both raid and m+ so i dont have to keep changing https://gyazo.com/a8881b9dc476d681fc1f987e50844364
proud spruce
I mean, thats really up to you. It will more than likely just start simming higher and higher and you will eventually have to learn the new rotation
true gyro
Exsanguinate probably needs high lvl galecallers to outsim toxic blade
honest needle
i dont mind using ss rotation or non ss rotation
just like i said i have so many gear with ss traits and all top logs show people using ss so im not sure why sims are showing me not using any ss at all
true gyro
Ppl padding everything theu can for top parses on logs. Thats why they probably using ss more :p
honest needle
u always want to envenom 2 times after using toxic blade right but soemtimes my rupture is about to fall off so do i cast rupture with less combo points or refresh rupture early
proud spruce
i think it would be best to wait 4-5 on your toxic blade
make sure youre not using it when youre about to have to reapply shit
and if you are then pool energy for it
honest needle
so its ok to hold 4-5 sec for tb
true gyro
No
proud spruce
F
honest needle
out of my gear i linked above what random 415 piece should i aim for shoulders or chest
true gyro
Quite sure its dps loss to delay tb instead of reapplying rupture bit early
lone junco
@honest needle if you keep 1ss, subterfuge tb is just fine.
I run 3dd 1ss 1vend 1tc.
can swap that ss to another tc and go MA/tb.
honest needle
u saw the gear i linked right
what 415 random piece should i go for
chest or shoulders
any tips
im afraid of wasting my titanium residue
so i rather ask discord soemthing like this lol
proud spruce
id choose chest but its really not the biggest deal in the world what you choose man, what is more important is hope that you get a good piece for whatever slot you choose
you seem to have enough variety in traits
honest needle
well u saw my gear i posted right my helm is alrdy good
so its between chest n shoulders
proud spruce
yea
honest needle
my chest has dd and trech which also seem good
proud spruce
and your shoulders have 4 good traits
honest needle
so i should go chest
proud spruce
yeah unless im blind its not your chest that has DD and trech its your shoulders
proud spruce
yea so id click chest and cross my fingers
honest needle
its better to go random 415 instead of waiting for a specifit piece right i only have 2100 residue
proud spruce
yes go random
very good chance you end up saving residium in the end that way
even if you do get unlucky a few times (you will)
thorn tartan
It is not 😄
thorn tartan
Np unstable op
proud spruce
well nothing personal is good if its your only one
honest needle
is this piece good for any specs
proud spruce
it lets you run the two better traits on your other pieces
summer cape
+1 @serene hinge
honest needle
u think its better than my 385 for assasination that has dd and NP
proud spruce
100%
serene hinge
you could probably put it through a sim if your'e not sure since that's exactly what it would tell you
but yeah i dont see this being worse than your 385
proud spruce
well it also assumes you dont move
honest needle
should i use that or switch it
proud spruce
so i would assume it has some really unrealistic uptime on that trait
idk ive never used it sorry, just know to be careful with how stuff that youre standing in for dps increase sims
honest needle
I almost feel i should go outlaw now since this piece is really bad for assasination
proud spruce
its not 'really bad'
serene hinge
i mean, it's kinda like aight for both lol
proud spruce
id use it man
serene hinge
and you have no reason to not use it
proud spruce
nothing personal is super good 1 point
honest needle
should i use scent of blood instead or unstable cat
lost niche
Unstable is rly fine for raiding since it procs very often
serene hinge
Nothing Personal isnt that bad, Scent is also aight in raid given how much cleave there is this tier, and Overwhelming Power is top
oh nvm you're using unstable, but yeah still fine
makes it harder to use given how much movement there is
proud spruce
yea i dont think the choice between scent/unstable matters too much, iw ouldnt sweat it
honest needle
so im better off with scent over unstable right
lost niche
still better than Scent of Blood
honest needle
ok
lost niche
yes
serene hinge
scent's just way easier to use
honest needle
unstable cat is prolly 2 hard to worry about
serene hinge
you just get a damage boost for doing what you're already doing anyway
lost niche
Scent is only good if you cleave or in m+ or if you want to go full safe
serene hinge
there's so much multi target in raid though, that it should just be fine
proud spruce
I mean, you really dont have that many ruptures up in this raid lol. But yeah I agree that its good because you dont have to play around it
honest needle
u sim higher then me
thorn tartan
8 ilvl more
honest needle
o thats bad
lost niche
the only fights u get multiple rupture enough longer to make Scent woth is the conclave and the 3rd boss
thorn tartan
2 bis trinket
lost niche
even on those boss if u get triple double dose and one shrouded you should be rly fine tho
honest needle
whats trinkets u think i should use https://gyazo.com/b9e9cd9eee4f08bd93a341a2963afd8c
serene hinge
could always just play outlaw 😄 and play yahtzee
lost niche
just sim all of them
but i think you should aim for the haste trinket at SotS
probably the best one for assarogue atm
honest needle
so dice and plume for me
prolly
with that 415 piece im debating if i should go outlaw i just like assasin much better
dapper moat
Guys what u think, do i handicap myself on raid if i go with 3xdd,1xss and 1 np and covent with subterfuge? As i am so familiar with ss rotation. Tried master ass but messed up rotatin more often..
lost niche
no you don't since you have 1ss
honest needle
must be nice atleast your sims let u use 1 ss
serene hinge
@honest needle going outlaw off one piece of gear is probably not a great move
lost niche
don't follow the sim at 100% you also need to try things by yourself in raid and see if you're okay with it
keep your ss then
honest needle
so if i dont use ss trait on a fight like champions do i only focus boss or do i still put garrote and rupture on all adds ?
dapper moat
Well i use my vanish on boss too?
Never save on adds there
Because they will not be on alive the full rotation
honest needle
do i still garrote all adds on first raid boss with no ss traits ?
or just focus boss only
dapper moat
I try to do so but i only parse 88 there..
honest needle
can u still garrote multipe targets from opener without ss ?
im not use to playing without ss
so thats sad i just simmed dungeon slice for m+ and it doesnt even want me to use my new 415 piece i got thats how bad that piece of crap is https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mxLqGgDHXNRoG2o3QK3cy1
honest needle
ya but from 385 to 415
thats alot of ilvl
let me ask this do all u guys atleast use 1 ss trait for raiding
lost niche
yes
warm geode
how much is EB value for m+? im using this for assassin runs
lost niche
Because even with only one ss it's still worth because of the combo point and because you play subterfuge so the damage will be decent
honest needle
ok so let me ask what piece out of my gear should i use 1 ss if i want to use atleast 1 ss
lost niche
@warm geode looks cool for AoE yes
honest needle
lost niche
3x EB 3xSS is insane for m+ actually in AoE week
serene hinge
from my understanding and looking around on raider.io, most people try to run 3x EB and 3x SS
it's extremely good aoe and st
warm geode
when i played i hate using CT
lost niche
3xDd is way too good for single target
warm geode
just rup adds and spam FoK
honest needle
which piece out of the pieces i linked should i replace for 1 ss trait not my helm right since my helm has best traits for single target
serene hinge
if you pick a pair to run for the whole dungeon, this is better overall performance than 3x DD isnt it?
lost niche
Yes but CT is just way stronger than PB for m+
lost niche
Astro i think it depends from the rest of the gear
serene hinge
that's fair
i guess i was assuming heavy crit/mastery since that's what i'm running
warm geode
@honest needle i would say, helm with TC+SS shoulder SS+SoB and chest EB+SS
serene hinge
although right now i copped out and went outlaw <.<
lost niche
day you mean for raid or m+ ?
honest needle
which piece should i replace to add 1 ss
lost niche
ok for raid get the chest out
honest needle
change my chest to wat
warm geode
@honest needle for raid just simm the best and use the guide rotation
if is not SS the best, just change open
lost niche
the 4th on the list
strange python
415 SS, TC or 400 EB, NP/SoB? For m+ this week with tyranical
honest needle
for m+ it wants me to use ss and tidal over ss and scent of blood which i thought was weird
warm geode
@strange python SS always, if can +EB best
honest needle
so for raid u think i should replace my 415 new piece if i want to use atleast 1 ss
strange python
I have 2xSS 2xEB on chest + shoulders. It is just the last piece. Maybe even SS NP is good for tyrannical?
warm geode
@honest needle why u want so much SS for ST?
warm geode
well, part of been better on the game is be able to adapt, just change the rotation
dont handcap yourself
honest needle
according to sims if i want to atleast use 1 ss for raid it wants me to replace my shoulders with ss and tidal surge and its a 1.2 percent loss is that a big deal https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mUu4iKPG2vb4GBPgYCq3Q2
warm geode
MA rotation is much better for prog
u do max damage on burst and can be more safe to do mecanics on base rotation
simm with MA trait to
honest needle
so if i dont use any ss traits for raid do i still garrote all adds on champions fight on opener and still garrote both bosses on jade for raid if i dont use any ss traits
warm geode
well, i dont even bother with first boss adds
i just /dance
and at jade i just want to max dps the monk
honest needle
if your trying to parse and i dont have any ss do i still garrote all adds from opener on champions and jade fight
warm geode
parse mythic?
honest needle
parse in raid. Im asking whats best for most dps
do i still garrote all adds from stealth
thorn tartan
How you garrote w/o subterfuge
thorn tartan
With no ss ma is da wae
strange python
When running subterfuge, should you hold your second vendetta to line up with vanish?
honest needle
with no ss ma is only a 70 dps increase i rather use subterfuge if its only a 70 dps increase
warm geode
@strange python prob yes
serene hinge
and learn to play it correct
honest needle
i alwyas used ss so im use to it. So i am asking if i do not use ss and i still use subterfuge do i still garrote all adds out of stealth on champions and jade boss?
honest needle
parsing is not overated because if u wanna get in a good guild thats all people care about
proud spruce
yea i had a destro lock aoe the living fuck out of the adds on champions of hte light yesterday, was super annoying
they were like 30% hp when we swapped
warm geode
@honest needle hell no
proud spruce
so we had to wait like 45 seconds on the ret phase to end
honest needle
yes.
warm geode
they care about doing mecanics properly and do decent dps
serene hinge
this conversation feels like it's getting so off base....
what are you trying to get out of this at the end of the day day?
🤣
honest needle
well ive applied to some high up guilds n all they ask for is logs and ask what parses u have
serene hinge
see what i did there?
serene hinge
people are telling you what you should do
what gear you should use
but you just keep coming back with "i want to use ss"
honest needle
so if i dont use any ss traits for raid do i still garrote all adds on champions fight on opener and still garrote both bosses on jade for raid if i dont use any ss traits
thorn tartan
You dont
warm geode
@honest needle there is no right answer for dat
honest needle
so with no ss on champtions i dont put any dots or anything on first boss in beginning of fight from stealth on opener?
ocean rampart
You shouldn't use subterfuge if you don't use SS traits, there is no reason to
warm geode
if adds die in 10sec is waste if adds live for 1min is good, if u want to farm, just go to a bad group and farm
serene hinge
🤦
strange python
I don't Garrote the adds. With MA you cannot. I parsed 88 on whole fight 98 on boss damage. And I dont use SS
warm geode
and , no one cares about first boss parse, is a cheese fight, everybody just run down him
honest needle
all im asking with no ss if its better to still garrote all adds and boss lol thats all i wanna kno
warm geode
at this point i think u r trolling
proud spruce
no dont garrote them
strange python
No
proud spruce
stay ont he boss
serene hinge
they've answered as many times as you've asked lol
honest needle
no they told me not to use subterfuge with no ss. but i like subterfuge and i kno the rotation i dont wanna change much before raid
i use subterfuge
thorn tartan
Then you will never raid high end
warm geode
what u r saying , at most of time seams, i dont like to work, how i can be a billionare? everybody here is saying good things to do, good mind sets and u r just, i want to play ss pls tell me everything to do
serene hinge
this is his opener
do what he did
no subterfuge
do not dot adds
go right to boss
hit it
warm geode
parse for most of the time is, farm or boss time kill
serene hinge
^
warm geode
and any mythic guild the have selfrespect dont ask for "good" parses for invite
honest needle
so according to that log u dont even use garrote as your first ability on opner
warm geode
parses generaly r to see if u are not bad, no to see if u r good
warm geode
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
warm geode
everything else is mindset/experience