omggg
#assassination
bleak spoke
.... lol
bleak spoke
Why would you use that
dark lantern
I always forget about it as well and it confuses me, that's why I've finally started to remember it exists lol
vital haven
i sometimes use it for 3s comps
edgy pawn
is it best to use tb with 3-5 cps?
bleak spoke
Use tb on cooldown
bleak spoke
If you get the envenoms then it doesn’t matter
Tb can build up to two countries
Cp *
What an autocorrect
edgy pawn
you sure tb can trigger seal fate?
sturdy python
Yes
edgy pawn
thought it was like garotte
bleak spoke
Very
dark lantern
Any crit can
edgy pawn
garotte cant
dark lantern
Oh yeah, dot crits can't, my apologies
sturdy python
Garrote cant crit
bleak spoke
Any crit where you apply upfront damage and build cp
edgy pawn
not sure about tb
bleak spoke
Garrote doesn’t have an upfront hit
raven mica
Tb does
edgy pawn
aight, so tb can crit
so in best case -> tb at 3-4 cps
and then get 2-3 envenoms in the window
bleak spoke
Which is why it’s safe to dot the snek with lightning shield in temple with etc
sturdy python
Yes, and bleeds last the entire time ofc
bleak spoke
Exsang master race
edgy pawn
bleak spoke
It feels like it doesn’t matter when you tb if you’ve got enough energy to do the relevant envenoms/mutis tbh
At least meters don’t reflect any difference
edgy pawn
"relevant" means at least two env?
bleak spoke
Yeh
edgy pawn
gotta be prepared for all kinds of azerite drops
bleak spoke
So usually I just sit at like 2 or 3 cp pooling energy
edgy pawn
i guess if i get 2 dd traits tb will sim higher
bleak spoke
It’s kinda afk
and then when tb comes off something like env mutis env mutis env
And for the last one I try to do it at the end of ep window
edgy pawn
sounds good
bleak spoke
Though most times it’s not even like I have the choice given the energy situation
solid nova
Yes
shy dust
Yes
untold current
So apparently ppl are running M0s and replacing 370 peices
Could it honestly be that much dmg over 390 pieces?
primal gazelle
its very minor
iron plover
say what?
honest needle
what u mean m0s give 390
primal gazelle
its gonna depend on each piece
honest needle
is there a video on what we should be doing to prepare for the new content. I dont even kno what im suppose to be doing
primal gazelle
got a 370 piece with NP and SOB on it, was a 200 dps loss over my 390 archives
untold current
I get that it depends? But for me 8/8 with all mythic pieces, i really dont see how a 370 piece could be that huge a diff
elder gulch
any interesting things CoS can remove or avoid this raid?
primal gazelle
a 370 with DD + NP probably stronger than any 390 piece
but you should do m0 anyways for tidalcore if youre JC
kill 2 heroic bosses and 15 mythic dungeons, you can craft a 400 ring with a socket, today
honest needle
do u need jc to get the ring ?
primal gazelle
yes
sturdy python
Even with array off?
primal gazelle
sorry i forgot to click on overwhelming power for my 370 piece
370 np dd > 390 archives
fading wigeon
Quick question..why is vanished paired with vendetta as per the guide?
shy dust
Most likely for the empowered garrote from subterfuge
marble hemlock
because vanish increases the damage of your next garrote (when specced into subterfuge) or rupture (when specced into ns) and you want to stack that increased damage with even more more% multipliers like vendetta
rose perch
yeah or it gives you increased crit chance if you're specced Master Assassin which you also want to pair up with vendetta
basically they're two abilities that increase damage by a percent, so you want them together so that they multiply with each other
rather than separately where they wouldn't
fading wigeon
Oh man I've been using vendetta wrong :(
rose perch
that's not a 😦 that's a 😃 because now you know!
rose perch
@strange python the exact sequence depends on your talents and traits but yeah i think they all vendetta before vanish
strange python
aye, sweet! thanks mate 😄
rose perch
https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-rotation-guide this resource is really good for openers and rotation
fierce field
anyone else running into a bug that sometimes doesnt allow you generate combo points
primal gazelle
you probably got parried
fierce field
no i checked that its only when im in open world vs general mobs
marble hemlock
had a similiar issue a few times when doing incursions
game was just lagging like crazy
cause its a smol indie company
kindred cedar
Whats best? go with a SS trait in chest or without any SS traits at all and go dagger in the back trait instead in chest?
saw on rankings alot of people are using SS trait?
primal gazelle
anyones sim actually went up?
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/nWoDcvRVXZubazWMkgR3bH
even with double traits on all 3 slots im down from 19.6--> 18.95
safe canopy
you guys popping out of stealth like crazy?
kindred cedar
And is there any bis list out there for the azerite gear in BOD ?
solid nova
If you want a generic listing you can use droptimiser. Other drops are in the spreadsheet in #announcements
WF/TF Make bis list obsolete
Wowhead have a listing too
solid nova
Which, i mentioned 3 things :d
halcyon axle
hmm
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
solid nova
😄
kindred cedar
Thanks!
coarse carbon
So many top rogues making the switch to TB. Feel like i'm behind the 8-ball sticking with exsang.
TB never sims higher for me though, so i'm hesitant to switch.
fair blaze
@coarse carbon I know your feeling PepeHands
nimble tartan
jaunty crystal
looks like MA/TB is simming top for me now. Wondering if dropping SS for an extra 150 dps is worth in this raid tho.
jaunty crystal
fair enough.
I can always re-forge I guess if we're stuck on a mythic boss where SS might be btter
fair blaze
Yeah and also having some SS and TC pieces can be very usefull for m+
But i'm not sure if TC>EB in AoE scenarios
primal gazelle
sob = TC at 2.47 targets
nimble glacier
does anyone have a list of which boss drops what artifact traits?
solid nova
dapper wraith
So, I haven't played TB since legion, I'm assuming you pool a little before each TB and try to get 2-3 envenoms per TB?
solid nova
TB on CD, 2+ yes
solid nova
Battle for Dazar'alor Quick References
Battle for Dazar'alor Azerite Drops https://bit.ly/2V0PwlJ
8.1 Dungeon Azerite Drops https://bit.ly/2R9NXmd
Azerite Season 2 changes !Azerite in the relative spec channel
Guide http://www.ravenholdt.net/battle-for-dazaralor-a-rogue-dps-guide/
Is Raidbots and Herodamage up to date with T23: Yes, check #tc-updates for more details
hollow jungle
how does shadowmeld work? does it act like vanish in combat?
ruby idol
First raid with MA/TB tn 
civic palm
O _O GL
rose perch
it's a poggers build you'll love it
just close your eyes after you garrote on opener and don't open them until you mutilate and you won't miss SS
ruby idol
I am ready
jaunty crystal
I'm waiting for me to get 0 crits on the opener
ruby idol
3x DD the dream
jaunty crystal
and then immediately talent out of MA
ruby idol
G m r v tb m to 4 vanish e m e? That right drat for opener?
rose perch
hell yeah brother
jaunty crystal
yea I think that's what the guide says
rose perch
try to crit your master assassin globals
it works a lot better if u do
actually just try to crit all the globals tbh glad i could help
ruby idol
Do i let the 2nd envenom rip regardless of cps to fit it inside vanish?
ruby idol
Yikes
rose perch
oh hang on i think the opener might be
uh yeah that
vanish TB
and then mut and then you almost definitely have 4+ for the env
so you get 1 TB 1 Envenom instead of 2 Env in the window
ya that one you had was the outdated one sorry i'm used to it too lol
idk if u just crit your mutilates you can do it the other way 😉
i like to just wipe the raid if i don't crit the muts and that way you basically always do crit if u think about it
jaunty crystal
genius
still low but I started the day at like 17.4 so whatever
is bonded souls alright? Simmed highest for me but it was against a scent which sucks for ST obviously.
old knot
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
shy escarp
SS/DD helm out my emissary cache, that'll work for now. looks like i'll be rolling 2x SS, 1xDD and 1x NP for the raid tonight
serene hinge
which azerite pieces are we going for in raid? we trying to end with 3x DD and SS?
vapid dock
does rogue take emerald stone on opulence?
worn kayak
which five bosses should we use our seals on? 😄
delicate gull
everyone back to exsg?
ornate gazelle
Do you need to swap to the adds on Opulence to get the stacks with the opal gem or is it just cleave?
quick ice
probably not?
solid nova
Herodamage
marble hemlock
cleave/aoe is enough, just need to actually "hit" the add to get the opal stack
honest needle
i dont see new trinkets on there
honest needle
ya
i dont
so none of the new trinkets form new raid r good ?
i dont see any at top
solid nova
Link me what you're looking at
honest needle
i found it
u guys think its worth using bonus rolls on normal
im trying to find out what bosses r best to roll on
shell wind
rerolling on normal is not very advisable imo, unless you think you can't clear much heroic this week
as for the bosses, kinda situational, try using the droptimizer on raidbots
or whatever it's called
quiet horizon
between MA and subterfuge, which is better?
sturdy python
Depends on traits and situation
shell wind
you're gonna have to sim
wild mural
has anyone made a tracker for the vigor trinket yet?
solid nova
@wild mural https://wago.io/rJJfEyh3E
woeful moth
double dose or ss?
stone fable
yes
woeful moth
Thats what I thought
sullen sphinx
Are we still using archive?
hollow stone
Me thinks we gon' get a lot of use of the "sim yo self" reaction
solid nova
Standard new raid release innit
hollow stone
Yupyup
solid nova
The quick reference pin will gradually get longer until it merges with the others 😂
hollow stone
Lol, will allow more use of 
marble hemlock
only 1dps per side takes red
honest needle
not much talk on discord im suprised since new raid is out
marble hemlock
most people will pick up opal
solid nova
1 red, rest opal
marble hemlock
first add wave spawns 30sec after you engage the actual boss, every subsequent wave spawns 1min after
solid nova
You split the raid
marble hemlock
first phase of the fight is going through a gauntlet on 2 sides, left and right, and you split the raid in half
you want one dps on each side to pick up a ruby for the damage increase on those adds, but multiple reds dont stack
honest needle
so i should always grab opal
marble hemlock
your RL is most likely going to assign the people who will take ruby, amethyst and topaz
which is the damage debuff, shadow absorb and critbuff respectively
and the rest will most likely grab an opal
marble hemlock
a ranged will pick up topaz, so unless the RL wants you to pick the ruby, you just grab the opal
amethyst is for healers
primal gazelle
anyone know if the monk boss on jadefires still take dot dmg when he flies up to do the tank mechanic?
happens like 20 secs into the fight
fringe phoenix
would echoing blades be a useful trait for dazar'alor?
wary moon
i cant find a sim for fathoms this patch
sturdy python
can sim it yourself
trail bronze
Question about pooling energy between envenoms - best to try to keep elaborate planning up (envenom per 4s) or envenom uptime (reenvenom when envenom fades?)
sturdy python
Envenom during envenom doenst do anything. Clipping EP would be the play but sims have shown its negligible
young meteor
what gem are folks taking for upulence?
quiet horizon
im taking red
solid nova
1 dps per side takes red for damage buff
Opal if not that assigned person
honest needle
on king ras is it better for rogues to stay top or go bottom ?
jagged sorrel
static temple
ty ❤
polar fjord
Is it best to reforge gear from Uldir since Reorgination Array is no longer active?
sullen sphinx
Are we takin opal most likely on opulence?
coarse knot
Feels bad got all 3 double trait azerite with 2 SOB and a echo blades
Where’s my st azerite
marble hemlock
so on opulence, which jewel are we taking?
supple hearth
🔫
static temple
lmao
weak creek
@marble hemlock my guild has rogues take ruby
marble hemlock
makes sense
you want a class on it that can stack it up basically every second
im just assuming that most guilds dictate ruby/amethyst/topaz carriers and then leave it to the rest of the players to decide for themselves which jewel to take
opal is almost always going to be the better choice though, unless you kill the boss in less than 2minutes
emerald kinda sucks, and opal outperforms it fairly quickly, so unless you struggle with p1 dps, theres no reason to have anyone pick emerald
honest needle
does any 1 have a good weakaura that shows what color to do when u get shrunk on high tinker fight
weak creek
whats the break point for tb vs exsang
lone junco
depends on DD traits vs Garrotes traits.
quick ice
yeah, its ab out shrouded suffocation
lone junco
sim your gear with both Subterfuge/MA and TB/Exang
raidbots can pick through them all at the same time.
outer sand
!Azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
idle vigil
strange python
!talents
iron plover
green gem was bugged for us
plain spruce
anyone mess with seductive power yet? im finding it really hard to see bwansomdi
robust ivy
I read somewhere that with 2 target you should be using fan of Knives over multuilate, is that true?
sour wraith
With 2x EB i think that's the case
quick ice
it does
hollow stone
I noticed it had been a while so.. opal
quick ice
afaik Uldir mythic doesn't have 5th ring?
plain vault
got a 400 socketed Invocation of Yu'lon that's outsimming my Galecaller's. Are people using it on CD or lining it up with vendetta?
pastel wasp
no 5th ring
plain vault
For just ST fight
spice surge
Uldir mythic should drop 5 ring gear, atleast it was datamined to have it
Obviously old gear won't have it
nimble tartan
only 1 piece from 6 heroic bosses so far 😿
chrome carbon
ifinally got another Dagger finally able to try sin
round harbor
versed mica
Websites are telling me subterfuge is better than master assassin, but I sim a couple % higher in master assassin. What do I pick?
dapper moat
What ever rotation u play better with the azerite talents u have. Also depends the content.
nimble tartan
im on a journey no ss no subterfuge https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jv7EX61hiG4PeT37GzhgjK
i will never ss this tier u cant stop me
nimble tartan
Treacherous doesnt seem bad at all so far
Only done 6 h though
In terms of living
primal gazelle
after doing 6/9 today i dont think ss is "that" impactful
having strong st with dd might bring more value to your raid
only fight so far where i think its meaningful damage is jadefire
true warren
when raidbots runs, does it still think we have stacks of reorigination array with the uldir azerite traits?
comparing archive of the titans to other azerite traits on bloodmallet... seems like other traits should be higher but archive is still on top
haughty flame
@nimble tartan do u have any link to ur rotation/opener
never tried master assin/DD this exp
ripe nimbus
steep vessel
weak creek
im 390 simming at 18,9k. does that seem normal?
just generally, i know its based on gear obv
grizzled jay
Now that you've lost 750 haste, I'd say that's pretty normal
royal lantern
hollow jungle
What ilvl are 10’s dropping this week?
limpid willow
raid lead kicked me because i called him silly for not letting me pad on conclave 😭
grizzled jay
10s are equivalent to 13 now right?
primal gazelle
Supposedly yes
jovial vault
nimble tartan
dry thicket
Do u like to be hated?
thorn tartan
Wow 👀
spice surge
Well earned!
quick ice
OMR for banned.
hollow jungle
So is MA the way to go now?
untold current
Are you guys buying a 400 piece now with residuum or saving it up for next week?
hollow jungle
Seems folks have bailed on the exhang sub build
floral frost
you play what you enjoy
hollow jungle
Rather do top deeps
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
lofty bone
!Azerite
daring imp
Is it worth doing 2 double dose with one shroudded suffocation or just better to do 3 double dose for the new raid ?
daring imp
Two of the Double dose traits i have also have Treacherous Covenant with them the 3rd double dose has that or Shroudded im assuming you would want at least one shorudded in the raid but not sure
hollow jungle
If your running MA I imagine the TC is better, take SS if running subterfuge
But as always, just sim lol
vast forum
3xSS if you are night elf 👌
nimble tartan
no ss 😡
real bay
does shadowmeld still work
vast forum
Why would it not?
real bay
read somewhere it wouldnt
vast forum
I'll double check when i get home but i don't see a reason (or a way) to really break it while maintaining its base functionality
quick ice
iirc, it applies the SS bonus, but not the subterfuge bonus, when used in raid
its in either #tc-research or #tc-updates
vast forum
Aye
quick ice
don't know if that was pre-8.1 though?
vast forum
In m+ it's basically vanish
I mean i've been using it til now
And i don't expect they would just change it with the new season
shrewd night
@nimble tartan so not only did you get trinket, but you snuck the mount in there 
real bay
yeah it would've been mad good if it worked with subterfuge
visual quartz
I tried shadow meld during the oppulance encounter, do you ahve to wait in meld for a second? wasnt working for me
fickle lion
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
quick ice
you only got 1CP?
visual quartz
alright then
vivid hearth
So is subterfudge onlt viable with stacked SS? With DD its better to go MA or?
raven mica
scenic quail
what opulence buff are ppl targetting?
rose perch
@nimble tartan grats!
ruby idol
I still dont have sharkbait or the kr one!
YOU KNOW HOW MANY KEYS IVE RUN???
Down with omr!
nimble tartan
ok heres the thing guys it was a crop
languid ore
10 weekly is 400?
nimble tartan
2 harlans dropped mine was only 385
marble hemlock
doesnt make us hate you any less
nimble tartan
but it made the picture perfect with a crop for the mount and tf
marble hemlock
theres just some thing you dont joke about
ruby idol
marble hemlock
when seb linked me a 390 spyglass months ago, i instantly unfriended him
turns out wasnt his, and he just reposted to bait us
but we will never be able to get past that
worn kayak
i'm guessing it's now better to use new 370 ilvl azerite gear with extra traits, instead of our "old" 385 gear?
marble hemlock
yes
nimble tartan
the druid went feral to trade me the trinket and he ended up gettin the 415 u hate to see it
marble hemlock
there might be some fringecases where its better to still use the 385
sleek iron
i got the dot trinket today.. it feels underpowered compared to what simulationcraft is saying
bleak spoke
Holy moly King’s Rest is pretty hellish this week
Belf racial doesn’t work on minions of zul anymore
Spit gold hitting 70k on a 12 fortified
bleak spoke
That bug where the lady with the raptor shoots you even if you’re stealthed if you’re closer than the tank still isn’t fixed
quick ice
belf worked just fine for us
bleak spoke
Wtf
I did it twice on mass entangled ones and it did nothing
Might be some weirdness cuz I did do the raid beforehand
marble hemlock
wouldnt surprise me
bleak spoke
And the racial swap could have fked some things?
Also the bullet hell from half the things being minibosses in there is something special on reaps
marble hemlock
wonder if htey fixed temple
the big elementals, that spawn 5 stacks of sanguine, used to spawn 5 big reaping mobs on PTR
bleak spoke
... nice
marble hemlock
so killing the 3pack gave you 15 of those
bleak spoke
LOL
i wonder if poison bomb's still the play
but i was playing with a brewmaster so it's hard to say
maybe with mass grip might be different
quick ice
doesn't work day1
fallen ginkgo
which are our BiS traits now? is it worth farming 370 pieces from M0s for the added trait?
devout jolt
I believe that it's a yes to getting 370 from m0 over 385 due to 5 traits.
blazing tulip
@fallen ginkgo Yes it is worth.
devout jolt
BiS traits depend on spec, so Sim will answer that
strange python
While speccing DD/MA/TB. After the opener Vanish you cast TB. Then what?? With the critrate higher from MA you most likely will get 2 CP from the TB. Do you then cast a 2CP Envenom or do you cast a mutilate and have the risk of overcapping with 6 CP on a double crit on the mutilate? Going into a 6 CP Envenom then 1 mulitale then Envenom. Or how would you get as many Envenoms in as possible?
devout jolt
I go tb - Mut - Env
yes there may be overcapping but a full envenom is worth it over the 2 cp one
strange python
So. Classic opened with MA. Then after the first TB... Mut - Env - Mut - Env? Are you risking getting the 2x crit on the mut due to the MA 50%? Can you even get one more Envenom in?
Or would you go .. TB>Mut>Env>Mut>Mut>Env?
quick ice
depends on CP 😃
dry thicket
You only have 3 globals during MA anyway
strange python
Hmm.. true
devout jolt
This is the guides opener, looks to get 2 envenoms in the Tb buff:
Garrote
Mutilate
Rupture
Vendetta
Toxic Blade
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Vanish
Envenom
Mutilate till 4+ combo points
Envenom
strange python
I think he means both;)
devout jolt
yeah, just mentioned the TB buff as its before the Vanish
solid nova
That's not up to date
solid nova
If you're talking tb ma
solid nova
Yeah that just takes away that factor
I haven't simmed a comparison to see the loss %
Might be very minimal 
devout jolt
always dreaming big
strange python
We will notice tonight. HC raid time :)
leaden garden
Does asa look good for BoD?
gleaming zealot
Does someone know which Dungeons Drop best azerith gear, dont know how To Look it up on the phone
spice surge
spice surge
or in pins
solid nova
To make life easier innit
@gleaming zealot
Battle for Dazar'alor Azerite Drops https://bit.ly/2V0PwlJ
8.1 Dungeon Azerite Drops https://bit.ly/2R9NXmd
Azerite Season 2 changes !Azerite in the relative spec channel
gleaming zealot
@solid nova ty
strange python
@solid nova The one you posted. Don't you spend 1 GCD too much on TB? If you vanish before? Loosing the chance for an extra Envenom instead during the uptime or MA? Not at my computer so I cannot sim or look at my char, just askin
solid nova
Its so you get 1 TB 1 Envenom instead of 2 Env in the window, but you're going to be subject to crit rng right?
strange python
True. But going into Vanish>MA with 0 CP and a GCD on TB feels slow. Might sim best. But it looks slower than it needs to be.
solid nova
Bare with, on my phone, lifes slow
rose perch
If you come in with full CP you don't get access to any different combination of abilities except envenom mutilate envenom
but that has the huge vulnerability of mutilate crits
this combination changes an envenom in the window into a toxic blade
and the upside is the chances of a bad case are dramatically reduced
you'd have to miss 3 chances at a crit to not reach 4CP, rather than having to hit 2 to get there
solid nova
Exactly, it removes a large amount of the RNG factor
strange python
Ah. Then I understand how you mean. It is safer then. Trying to take some RNG out
solid nova
Yeah i'd like to see a simmed difference between the two
I cant imagine its anything substantial 🤔
rose perch
I bet the more crit you get, the more the yolo one works well
solid nova
Yeah exactly
nimble tartan
ye in uldir i just RA crit and all crit gems and it felt decent but sometimes u got scuffed
strange python
Yes ofc. I have 31% +the 50% from MA so. Will be fun to try this out. This is all assuming you have atleast two DD, correct?
leaden garden
Master assasin is better than subt for st? Playing tb
rose perch
as long as you don't have SS traits at all @leaden garden then probably
sim yourself to be sure
leaden garden
No ss traits no..
leaden garden
Okay thanks mate. It changes playstyle a lot?
rose perch
a little, just a different opener and vanish/vendetta plan
opener becomes Garrote Mutilate Rupture Vendetta Vanish/TB Mutilate Envenom and then normal rotation from there
vanish just changes to be muts/envs with a TB if it's up instead of garrote
nimble tartan
hmm that trinket from tinker isnt implemented in simc yet?
nightly apl never uses it 
strange python
With that trinket. Or crit stacks on 2nd opener the Yolo version would prolly work better with two Envenom. 1st opener 1 rotation. 2nd opener another? Having 100% crit with MA means it is not even Yolo anymore? @rose perch thoughts?
rose perch
yes if you have 100% crit it's not even yolo that's definitely true
in fact
if you have 100% crit you burn a combo point for sure with the "safe" way
so i imagine those two openers have a level of crit where one becomes better than the other
idk what it is probably a simc solution to solving that
strange python
So opening on boss you would do the safe. When 2nd CD come up with hero you do "yolo" opener?
rose perch
yes definitely do envenom mutilate envenom if you have 100% crit
I don't know how much crit you need to want to use the other one but i bet it's somewhere in the 90% range
maybe 85-95 would be my guess
strange python
With Enchant, 3rd traits and some trinket that will be almost every 2nd CD I think. Ye I think you are correct. Just speculating. Have to wait for the Sims :)
rose perch
yeah it'd be interesting to see it simmed :]
tender cedar
hey guys
strange python
Looks interesting and fun. Having 2 opener based on if it is during right or beginning of fight. I like it
rose perch
hi phexz
rose perch
i think 3DD 1NP 2TC is going to end up being best for pure ST
for M+ i'm thinking 3SS 3EB maybe
nimble tartan
im in the lab with the galecallers and tinker trinket....
tender cedar
iam playing with german client what is NP and TC ?
proven gyro
should I use galecallers on CD
or hold on to it and line it up with exsang every time
rose perch
Nothing Personal and Treacherous Covenant
tender cedar
ty !
strange python
btw do anyone know if the 15% inc. Dmg stacks (30%) or multiplies (32.25%) from 2x TC?
spice surge
Damage/healing and stats always stack
nimble tartan
the increase damage taken by us doesnt stack
spice surge
Anything else never stacks
spice surge
So the damage amp does not stack
rose perch
yeah the drawback shouldn't stack
strange python
That is really good to hear :)
nimble tartan
but what if it did
rose perch
nimble tartan
then we elusive boys...
strange python
Then I have more time to blame my healers. Damn, wish it stacked! ;) all jokes aside. I like this new assa
rose perch
i don't think we need to worry about it tbh how often do you take damage while that low on hp
i was looking at progression logs from last tier TC would basically never damage you and would have very high uptime on the upside
quick ice
tbh if you take damage while at 20% it usually kills you 😃
scenic quail
it usually procs your CD*
quick ice
ah yes, that
feral ridge
Am i wrong if i think Fathom trinket is no more good? I dont see Fathom in Bloodmallet chart.
haughty flame
yay me 😄
winter moss
grats
elfin fossil
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
drifting hare
any bis list for the new raid?
elfin fossil
dunno, I did my own
drifting hare
could you share?
solid nova
Wowhead has a list and droptimiser on raidbots is a thing
Not much point in making an entire bis list as wf/tf makes most obsolete
It is indeed
Sub suffering that much? 😄
solid nova
Toxic blade, on cooldown.
elfin fossil
ROfl
Easy enough.
So now the go to is MA and TB instead of EX and SUB, with DD and TC traits?
blazing tulip
Hero Damage puts SS+Sub way higher than blood mallet
BM shows with a different talent
The results are really discrepant
winter moss
herodamage > bm
stable rover
is there any good 370 azerite piece to get from m0?
spark pike
should galecallers boon be used on cooldown ?
spark pike
ahh there sorry 😄
quaint sequoia
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
copper kestrel
At how many targets do I stop TB/Mut and just Fan?
fair blaze
Are you talking about m+ scenario or in raid with adds?
With EB traits 2+ targets, otherwise 3+
exotic widget
Is more than 1 nothing personal not optimal ?
fair blaze
It's optimal when you have nothing else to pick, but it won't grant as much dmg as for example TC or something similar
But in the most of cases you want to have only one
fair blaze
I assume that you are talking about ST, so NP will be better than SoB
exotic widget
NP the damage adds but does the energy regen?
fair blaze
Only dmg
According to HeroDamage
1st trait of SoB on ST is 1,18% increase, when 2nd NP trait is 1,45%
So 2nd NP is slightly better but try to get DD, TC or even SS for this
exotic widget
i have 1ss, 2dd, 2np and 1 tc atm
could even drop the ss for 3rd dd but i like the combo from ss
fair blaze
So try to pickup another TC cause it's quite stron atm
exotic widget
this is purely for tonights raid only
fair blaze
Yeah i know that feeling 😄
Im trying to get some pieces from dungeons now, but i have got only crap so far ;/
Sorry not crap
12 Titan Residuum
exotic widget
did all m0s earlier with 2 other leathers so got some nice stuff and 385 from tw
jade grotto
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
copper kestrel
Is bloodmallet still a good site for information? It seems to not value things like EB (assume bad rotation) and doesn't have secondary azerite traits (unless I'm looking wrong for something like "overhwelming power"
fading wigeon
Anyone have a sec to look at my logs from last night to see what I'm doing wrong lol
fair blaze
But most of rogues use herodamage
copper kestrel
nice - thank you!
fair blaze
Your welcome
strange lichen
Cool thanks
spice sorrel
Got stuck with ruby last night 
winter moss
hollow stone
This is the perfect week to have "your turn" on ruby, just make sure your guild rotates it through people
Each week
winter moss
guess i gotta take ruby all the time
hollow stone
Rip you
spice sorrel
Probably won't. They usually keep it constant after it works
Gotta check what the uptime on the debuff was so I can force then to pick a ranged
hollow stone
Which is a dumb move since the diff between how you do the fight picking up ruby or opal is identical lol
But i get it
Repetition leads to fewer mistakes
winter moss
it's probably who lives the longest
hollow stone
Yea. Thats honestly the most important factor. Give it to people who dont die to dumb stuff
winter moss
yeah
spice sorrel
I was the lowest ilvl at the beginning of raid when they chose me expecting me to be lowest dps
hollow stone
But you'd have the backup of the ruby on the other side too (assuming youre not having issue with the split gauntlet)
spice sorrel
And then I got lucky with drops and ended up being near the top
So we'll see if I keep it next week
winter moss
tbh if your rl is picking by ilvl throw a lamp at him and tell him to lighten the fuck up
spice sorrel
Lol
winter moss
you want ruby on the most reliable source
in mythic you want the buff as long as possible and picking the lowest ilvl is not always the smartest choice
spice sorrel
Well I was like 12 ilvls below everyone else so I probably was the lowest dps
Which was his thought process
I didn't prog with them in uldir because of work so I was pure heroic gear
hollow stone
Its a reasonable thought process but likely wrong. Lower ilvl generally means lower hp and more likely to die and lose the buff. Like mc is sayin
spice sorrel
Oh yeah thaga true
We took two rubies on our first kill, one for each side
Probably going to change
winter moss
probably the safe bet variant
hollow stone
That'll be standard
spice sorrel
You think?
hollow stone
2 r, 2 t, rest op unless struggling to kill minibosses im time then emerald or w/e the 4th is
The roots one
winter moss
emerald
spice sorrel
We tried the 5 yellow gem strat
winter moss
well i cant take emerald
spice sorrel
To have 100% uptime on the buff
winter moss
the reason why i cant play casters
hollow stone
Just play afflock teehee
winter moss
beast master
winter moss
but i still think ruby should be on the most reliable caster
hollow stone
Changing gears hard here. Did anyone figure out what limit was doing in m0. It wasnt just for extra ring 370s. I think it was something to do with bonus rolls..
winter moss
dunno
hollow stone
Nah. It wasnt anything basic like tidals, residuum, or extra ring 370s. Nor was it in hopes of god tier tf trinkets
slate jacinth
When I sim for pure ST for BoD, should I still sim archives? Or sim without it?
hollow stone
Archive is fine to sim. But 0 array
slate jacinth
How do I change that?
hollow stone
Advanced options drop down on raid bots
slate jacinth
Cool, thank you!
hollow stone
Cant take screenshot as im on phone, sry
slate jacinth
Np, ill find it. tyvm!
When simming azerite pieces, you have to select all the azerite traits AND the piece itself, right?
Can the Azerite traits value change based on the rest of my equipped gear? Im having difficulties doing one big sim with all azerite traits + gear, due to iteration limt
hollow stone
If you want to do big az sims, you will need a premium acct. to answer your question, yes, the piece and the traits need to be selected
slate jacinth
I have 6mil iterations (purchased premium) but still having issues with big sims 😛
hollow stone
Damn. Thats like a 20 min sim lmao
slate jacinth
Actually takes less than 3 min when doing top gear sim
hollow stone
Id recommend using bloodmallet to get an idea on "better" traits and then just sim those to compare whats best for your gear
slate jacinth
I dont understand why it would take SS / Archive / Swirling Sands over a NP trait?
lyric pawn
hey guys. im trying to help a raider on my guild that just reroled sin rogue and is pullin very low numbers. from what i've read and analysed on his logs ( https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/hBVRN6pk4LTgHYnm#fight=2&type=damage-done&source=18&view=timeline ), it seems to me that he have very low uptime on garrote and somewhat low on rupture as well. could this be the main reason for the low dps or you guys can spot something else that i may have oversighted ?
scenic nacelle
Dejavu?
blissful tide
@lyric pawn I’m on my phone right now so kinda hard to search through logs but I see he doesn’t have a active trinket, coupled with the fact that he unfavorable traits the one you get from the tree world boss
blissful tide
Yeah like I said on phone but if that happened big oof
solid nova
Best thing you can do for now is give him a guide, because the basics arent there mate
In correct opener, vanish windows wasted, tb windows not being utilised
Traits are poor too
bleak spoke
Been simming very slightly better with exsang, and more comfortable with it, but are there any fights where the dmg profile of tox blade is superior? I have this weird in between trait combo of 2ss 2dd np and ttk
solid nova
I can appreciate what youre doing for your guildie Corgi, but its probably best they come here and we can explain the points properly
So they can take it on board
lyric pawn
hmm i see, i played rogue for a brief time during legion so i have some knowledge of pull/rotation priority. im going to look into it for more details and come back to him. thanks guys
solid nova
Or if he doesnt feel comfortable hes welcome to DM me, i really dont mind fam
lyric pawn
yeah for sure, i'm just looking into it by myself so i can have a better understanding in advance and than ask him to seek you guys help
thanks man 😄
solid nova
Yeah, link him the RH guide http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
Refer to the opener with SS etc
Im sure he'll see straight away what he is and isnt doing
🤞
The wowhead guide is really well written too
lyric pawn
will do it, thanks again 
odd hatch
Is the ss combo point buff supposed to stack if you have two like first dance? I know some azerite pieces are bugged so I'm wondering if mine is as well
Wait first dance doesn't stack does it
Well there is my answer lmao
blissful tide
No combo points do not stack
odd hatch
Right
pseudo hamlet
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
gilded fossil
im at 70% uptime on EP you want to be around 75 to 80 right?
haughty flame
any1 got a nice link to a simple opener guild
i once linked a google doc with it but cant find it anymore :<
hollow stone
@gilded fossil aim for 100%. Settle for what you get. Theres no "this is how often ep should be up" generic %
haughty flame
With Master Assassin and Toxic Blade:
Garrote
Mutilate
Rupture
Vendetta
Vanish
Toxic Blade
this would be for all DD traits correct?
i need a opener without SS
hollow stone
Sim your traits and talents. Then look at the opener that applies to you
Two step process
hollow stone
Zzzz
haughty flame
im running 3x DD and NP
hollow stone
Are you using ma and tb??
hollow stone
Then do the opener you just linked
sturdy python
The opener is in the guide
hollow stone
Like pulling teeth..
haughty flame
u would only ever use MA with DD
hollow stone
Not true
haughty flame
then give me another case
hollow stone
You use what sims higher
If subterfuge sims higher. Youd use it
And open with the subt and tb opener
I dont know how you arent getting this
sturdy python
MA can sim higher in ST pretty much anytime you don't have SS traits
sturdy python
Although traits themselves don't change the opener directly they do because your traits will determine your talent. Just check guide for opener
hollow stone
Right. But you need to sim to confirm that ma is better than subt for your gear..
hollow stone
Clearly yes since ive given you the answer 3 times
haughty flame
ok any1 else got an answer ?
devout osprey
I have a Darkmoon Deck Fathoms. SHould I sell or equip it? Is it really any good at all?
sturdy python
Yes it's very good. Better than pretty much every other trinket until 380ish ones pop up. However, that ilvl is more obtainable than before
vestal wren
normal drops 385
if you need the damage of the trinket now, use it else selling now is probably a lot better
devout osprey
Yeah, thats what I thought. It wasn't a massive upgrade
shy axle
what do you guys think/plan. Staying assa or switching to outlaw because of reaping?
hollow stone
Plan is to stay sin for m+, its gonna be comparable imo. But time will tell
shy axle
ye, doing the same
hollow stone
Prob end up switching it up week to week if i get outlaw weapon tho
shy axle
lets wait and see how it plans out
hollow stone
Depending on affixes
I dont push super high keys tho so maybe outlaw will be better. I think sin will shine more on high keys. This is all speculation, tho, so take from it what you will
Something like 1 ss, 3 eb, 2 sob is prob pretty strong on high keys
tranquil lodge
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
shy axle
i am looking forward 3SS/3 EB combo
oblique jackal
After running BoD i feel like SS performs better than DD
craggy helm
outlaw is just not near comparable in the raid so far (depending on how mythic changes things) - so unless you want astronomical respec costs...
sin the way to go for now
hollow stone
Your sin raid gear shouldnt be the same as your sin m+ gear so i dont agree with that arg; either way you'd be reforging often
cosmic field
what guide should i use/read? icyveins or ravenholdt one?
worn kayak
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
zenith plank
this might seem like a total noob question... but how do you sim multiple enchants on raidbots, cuz i select different ones but it doesnt sim the other options so im confused o.0
sturdy python
Use top gear
zenith plank
thats what i did, i select multiple enchants on weapons.. but when i look at the results down low it doesnt even sim multiple options
not sure why
sturdy python
Can you link it?
zenith plank
sure
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jAmWABw2WtAcisNwLqkT1 its only simming the enchant on the weapon not multiple options
hollow stone
You gotta click the check box off to not use your current enchants
hollow stone
You can delete your own posts in disc, on a completely unrelated note 😏
zenith plank
im gonna blame it not having coffee yet
shhhhh maybe they wont see
we are rogues afterall
open forum
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
bright path
Guys the shroud chest which dungeon drops it?
bright path
Thanks!
solid nova
Kings rest and waycrest manor
bright path
Thanks again
frail escarp
so i was just grinding +6s - whats the best way to dps since the mobs die so fast - i end up garroting around 4 mobs > casting tempest > FoK for combo ponits > getting up ruptures on targets and barely do any damage on trash pulls
final stone
@tranquil lodge my dude!! ❤
rose sapphire
Is there a sheet which bosses in the raid to bonus roll prio?`
final stone
also SS in BoD felt really good Def trait to have and TC is top notch
just look in the journal
first boss for sure cause of axerite with SS
fading wigeon
@rose sapphire hi. Check out the new droptimizer tool on raidbots
light kestrel
Literally put the entrance to the new raid in our hub, and people STILL ASK FOR SUMMONS
What is this sorcery?!
frail escarp
i was just grinding +6s - whats the best way to dps since the mobs die so fast - i end up garroting around 4 mobs > casting tempest > FoK for combo ponits > getting up ruptures on targets and barely do any damage on trash pulls - anyone know if im doing anything wrong?
twilit quiver
NP or EB for BoD in general ? What do you guys think ? got 1 of each already too
fresh coyote
is crafting engineering helm worth it at all?
jaunty crystal
If you have eng leveled and have the mats there is no reason not to
real bay
@frail escarp do you use EB.. no issues with trash damage when I use at least one
brittle coral
MP or EP?
buoyant coyote
EP
hollow stone
@frail escarp i wouldnt worry too much at this point. That being said, i wouldnt run ct if grinding 6s
Next week it all changes when high keys have more value again
gilded oasis
Just aiming for one NP right? Returns from 2&3 are minimal?
hollow stone
@gilded oasis sim. But its looking very likely that that is the case
@brittle coral sim to be certain but almost def ep
brittle coral
getting 15.9k simming with MP
382 ilvl
gonna change to EP and see, how long does the raidbots sim take to update my talents? any idea?
also thank you
buoyant coyote
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/mh9gux24Yu2apzn32Df8Fk and how is Twist of the knife better here then scent?
im abit confused
hollow stone
You can sim multiple talent combos in one sim using top gear. That'll speed things up for you 😃
buoyant coyote
Im really confused atm
gilded thistle
Are you guys multidotting the two bosses on conclave?
buoyant coyote
oh wait....Scent is worse on herodamage
@gilded thistle idk, i got raid at 20:00 so let u know later, but yea probly
@solid nova do you know if Archive is bad or good now, iv heard mixed opinions so idk... what to wear haha
scenic nacelle
I feel like scent is being undervalued vs Seductive Power. How far and how close do you need to get to Bwonsamdi?
fading wigeon
@gilded thistle yes, helps with energy regen
sturdy python
Probably not a great idea
fleet whale
so i picked up the emerald last night on opulence and it's either bugged or just plain terrible. It takes way too long to ramp up, and the stacks reset while standing still
sturdy python
Grab opal it's amazing
fading wigeon
Ruby!
fleet whale
you pick up the ruby if you want to help the raid
sturdy python
Only one person needs ruby
fleet whale
yeah, it's the self-less gem
sturdy python
But we are rouge
sturdy python
Indeed
fleet whale
i actually think the healer one that increases haste would be really strong for sin, but it's highly unlikely we would ever get to pick it up
cerulean walrus
Wipecrew II: Electric Boogaloo is coming up tonight for my guild. First time in, and I have to ARL 20 clowns
cerulean walrus
What is the opal effect again?\
fleet whale
i think it's the one where you damage increases for each new target you hit
cerulean walrus
Ah, yeah that will be extremely beneficial with multidotting
hollow stone
@gilded thistle if you can, yes. When we killed the bosses were far enough apart that multi dotting wasnt a good option
fading wigeon
@cerulean walrus
cerulean walrus
Thank you thank you
hollow stone
Idk if thats correct. Opal performs better than emerald quite quickly. We did no emeralds on our kill. 1 ruby and 1 topaz per side, rest of the dps went opal
Opal is a stacking dmg buff on you
Emerald is a static dmg buff if not moving
dapper bough
is there some guide about all those abbrevations you guys are using ? It's getting hard for me to undestand ^^'
hollow stone
@fleet whale you cant pick up the healer ones as dps
vestal wren
the wowhead guide has one and also http://www.ravenholdt.net/battle-for-dazaralor-a-rogue-dps-guide/ mentioned some
fleet whale
it just takes way too long to ramp up
dapper bough
Oh thanks fuu
hollow stone
Yea. Emerald is bugged but not the effect, idk exactly what it is but emerald (some how) causes other gems to be unclickable by people even if they dont have a gem yet
Maybe the hotfixed that tho, idk
fleet whale
the effect is definitely bugged, stacks would drop off suddenly while standing still
hollow stone
Oh lol. Typical blizzard
sturdy python
You don't even need to multi dot with opal. Fan of knives once and you get the stacks
flat ocean
Hey fuu do you think DS might be better than vigor this tier? simming really close for me atm
fleet whale
i would get to four stacks and it would just drop off
fleet whale
idk if it's damage breaking the stacks
hollow stone
Not sure tbh, didnt worry about emerald since it was basically "not ruby? Not topaz? Go opal" for us
Didnt even try emerald lol
flat ocean
it's whenever it gets to 5 it resets
its a bug in the code probably
has nothing to do with damage
hollow stone
@flat ocean def possible with higher haste ratings available now. Sims will tell, i suppose
pseudo hamlet
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Azerite Season 2 changes: https://bit.ly/2U86I7o
brisk sedge
so now's the time to swap out archive huh?
prisma beacon
which is the best assa gem by opulence?
tulip tide
I'm not sure where it is, but I am assuming there's a comment or post or w/e stating theorycrafting for 7.2 somewhere?
sturdy python
One person needs Ruby, otherwise opal
We just had 8.1 release, no one knows anything about 8.2
tulip tide
well people can still sim right?
and PTR has been up for a while to see at least the lower difficulty raid fight layouts
sturdy python
Do you mean 8.1?
sturdy python
8.2 isn't released
sturdy python
Ok, then there have been sims of 8.1 done already, there weren't any class changes
Herodamage has azerite and trinekt updates for t23
tulip tide
do we have any idea how the different specs do in the raid compared to eachother?
sturdy python
Can check warcraftlogs for some info on it. #announcements has a raid guide with some insight also. Sin seems to be a good choice all around
solid nova
1 person takes red, if thats not you, take opal
sullen pagoda
aight thanks
civic palm
Fuck Emerald that's not the life for you.
vestal wren
time for premium?
spice ice
True
civic palm
time to just run that mess locally wooo
somber mortar
M+ assassination traits, where can i find the bis/guide/ suggestions?
tough vale
Been lazy, any command to a list for BoD trinket rankings for assas?
civic palm
somber mortar
lad, ty.
fleet anchor
@flat ocean DS has been pretty close to Vigor for quite a while.
tough vale
@civic palm Ty
fleet anchor
It is possible these double trait setups could favor DS eventually though with the Envenom trait for example.
Hard to say
Also, Emerald sucks 😄
civic palm
Yeah get that mess out of my life.
fleet anchor
It’s tuned really badly. Doesn’t even math out at all.
1s per 1% stack. Takes 30s to reach max of 30.
Drops 5 stacks per second while moving
Opal will get you 20% by around the 25s mark and keep getting better with no downside.
Emerald needs to either drop stacks slower or stack much higher.
But don’t be like me and accidentally click on Topaz. 200 IQ move right there. 😄
civic palm
ow
yeah either the threshold for dropping stacks need to be greater, or the numbers reduced, so bad
bold hearth
Emerald was bugged for our kill last night, was going to 5 then dropping without moving.
sturdy python
One of our guys kept grabbing the wrong one. People kept saying "tbf the opal doesn't look like one." Lol
civic palm
We had permanent Rubies.
civic palm
Yeah but the buff doesn't trigger outside of Opulence.
bold hearth
Almost broken.
civic palm
Bet if I log in right now I might still have the debuff > _>
fleet anchor
The Opal really doesn’t look like an Opal haha
sturdy python
I have no idea what an opal looks like, I just read the tooltip lol
Then clicked the same spot every time
fleet anchor
My tooltip wasn’t working
sturdy python
Oh well that would make it difficult I'm sure
fleet anchor
So I guess and clicked the one that looked like an Opal. Which is a Topaz I guess.
civic palm
lol
fleet anchor
Oh well, next week 😄
true ingot
Should we take Emeralds or Opals? Opals, right?
hollow stone
@solid nova maybe we need a pin for opulence gems? This is gettin' cray