The way he said that, like speaking to a child
#assassination
fringe estuary
I was under the impression they were nature damage, doesn't mean I didn't read the tooltip
Honestly, flat out aggression is alot better than being a condescending fuck
so yeah its better
Regardless, ty for the help sleighavre
spice bolt
Even if bleeds did nature damage you would still not want to cast it during tb.
fringe estuary
why not?
lost horizon
Applying a bleed doesnt do instant dmg
safe matrix
immediate damage vs overtime damage
fringe estuary
wouldn't that actually be better 30% more bleeds, vs 30% more envenom? (if it did nature ofc)
safe matrix
it doesnt snapshot
lost horizon
^
fringe estuary
ah
lost horizon
Not a lot of things snapshot
safe matrix
only three things snapshot in sin
-bleeds from stealth with nightstalker
-garrote from stealth with SS/subterfuge/NS
-exsang with haste
errything else is dynamic
fringe estuary
Gotcha
lost horizon
I mean even without considering the haste interaction, exsang snapshots that bleed to be increased tickrate
But yeah @fringe estuary that's all for snapshotting
Other than meld+garrote for SS but that's niche
fringe estuary
true
safe matrix
after years of complaining about horde and BEs, alliance now have the strongest m+ racial
with shadowmeld
it allows for a lot of cheese
lost horizon
Feelsgoodman
safe matrix
also human racial is solid cause there are a ton of non avoidable stuns in dungeons
lost horizon
Human racial doesn't work on a lot of them though, which sucks
lost horizon
Everyone plays horde anyway
cobalt gyro
they did because warmode was unplayable since 1 week into bfa for alliance
doing a world quest 10 steps outside boralus?
horde raid.
fringe estuary
never played alliance, guess i never knew it was that bad
safe matrix
it was real bad
cobalt gyro
i'd be stealthed next to a world quest waiting for there to be no horde around so i could do it
usually took 15+ minutes
safe matrix
tbf I was completely merciless for the first month and would gank people constantly
i could never get world quests done though 
cobalt gyro
oh same, i got horde slayer/conqueror of azeroth
trying to do anything without a group tho, good luck
static hedge
So i keep hearing for high m+, crit way better than haste. Is it worth changing gems and enchants and such into crit? should i keep any sort of a haste % ?
quick fog
Haste is still good for bosses so don't be too worried about switching it up. Most players won't have enough gear to hard swap stats.
But still prio crit/mast for +s
dark crag
Enchants will never be the culprit for huge dps variances
lost horizon
Weapon enchants can be significant
dark crag
That is the exception
I say 99% use the crit weapon enchant + x
The most stats to alter your gear are on rings. Get a few decent rings and you can test all kind of combinations. I favor crit over haste
Crit and haste both do the same in a different kind of way. They let you produce more cps
In aoe you have multiple bleeds up that give energy, bleed spread is amplified by crit
What do you do in general ingame?
narrow hull
Can the dungeon slice raidbots setting be trusted for stat weights? It has haste as my highest which seems odd
marsh fjord
is this still updated?. because i've been tought to only spend rupture or envenom with 4 cp and if you follow this you will rupture with 3cp.
safe matrix
just look like three more actions down
you do that first one so you get a rupture going, then in a bit later you do another one so it pandemics it and has a longer duration
marsh fjord
So do we rupture with 3 CP then?
safe matrix
no
marsh fjord
Ah just for the dot
safe matrix
-Pandemic this term relates to reapplying buffs/debuffs. When a debuff (like garrote) is refreshed, its remaining time (up to a cap of 30% max duration, so 18x0.3=5.4s for garrote) will be added to the new buff. Primarily used to give leeway to reapply bleeds, however can also be used to make bleeds last longer.
longer bleed for exsang means more deeps
marsh fjord
Hmm thats interesting
safe matrix
its amazing what information the pins have 
marsh fjord
HEE i was looking at the website i forgot the pins, don't be like that 😦
paper heron
any of the new tradeskill gear worth going for?
solemn mason
we can use cloak on fetid right?
safe matrix
!tips
prisma monolithBOT
Uldir tips and tricks: http://www.ravenholdt.net/uldir-tips-tricks/
solemn mason
oh thanks
dusk sun
running with 2EB 1 SS is with Subterfuge is okish
I find it really nice and balanced between aoe an ST 😄
fading vigil
Nothing person Bette than blightborn?
dusk sun
i havent tried it mate
fading vigil
Bloghtborn infusion is sinning 100more dps for me
But I had seen a video of Dakar an talking about how this is a really strong trait for nothing personal
Can someone give me a look? Tell me what you think bro
fading vigil
The shoulders comparison with my chest
steep obsidian
😛
I mean I'd trust the sim
change durataion and number of targets to get an idea too coz there aren't many pure st fights
stable pine
^lol
marble hemlock
😄
i mean
assa is the king of aoe right now
so its okay to drop ST
other classes can do better on that who dont have as high an aoe potential
spice surge
Anything that isnt short burst aoe assa will be significantly better than outlaw
civic palm
and just about everyone else.
raven mica
civic palm
Having that much AGI isn't really fair.
dark token
but "king of aoe" implies something lol
spice surge
That it's the best spec for sustained aoe
civic palm
Correct.
spice surge
Which is undoubtedly true
dark token
its not tho
civic palm
_>"
spice surge
Which spec is better?
spice surge
??
civic palm
Nope.
civic palm
10k AGI < Blade Flurry
dark token
other classes also does better
spice surge
What does outlaw do then
civic palm
If you are not running Scent you are sabotaging yourself if your group isn't a bunch of babies.
dark token
wait 10s till its back up and do way better aoe when its up
marble hemlock
both scent and EB are really damn good
dark token
i dont run scent because triple SS crushes bosses and mobs
civic palm
This is going to be even dumber come Season 2.
safe matrix
also doesnt outlaw actually have really bad ring combos next tier?
spice surge
From raids yeah
marble hemlock
ye
paper heron
how do you decide between scent and eb in m+
spice surge
But there is residium and pvp
marble hemlock
meanwhile assa can get 3eb1scent1ss1ttk just from raid 😃
paper heron
ive got ss, twist, and then scent or eb
dark token
rolls make not much difference
dark token
king of aoe is not sin lmao its pretty bad in sustained aoe without a niche build that makes it bad for the rest of the dungeon
spice surge
And also np+dd for st, pretty silly how amazing the traits are for assa
dark token
its good for burst aoe and cleave
marble hemlock
what does that even mean soviet
spice surge
Burst aoe????
dark token
yes
spice surge
Eb isn't for burst
dark token
6 garrote and then everything ties
marble hemlock
"its not the best for aoe, except with a build thats good for aoe and then performs well on aoe"
dark token
dies*
spice surge
You don't take MA and Eb
dark token
its good on sustained 2-4 targets
marble hemlock
i guess
dark token
other classes win sustained cleave and outlaw does too
civic palm
Seems BAD.
marble hemlock
🤷
dark token
like frost mages
marble hemlock
weird then, that im even beating frostmages on the TD bigpull with 2EB1SS
but i guess those 2.5k mscore mages dont know how to play /s
dark token
and what your overall dungeon dps
marble hemlock
hard to say in TD
since cannons pad
22k in waycrest, 24k motherlode, 25k freehold
dark token
on what difficulty keys
marble hemlock
17-20s
dark token
yeah ok dude
safe matrix
i mean literally almost everyone in #subtlety has come to that realisation at this point
dark token
im not arguing sin is overall superior
civic palm
hahaha
dark token
im saying
marble hemlock
you literally said it has bad sustained aoe
dark token
king of aoe isnt exactly what i would describe it as
safe matrix
what if he called it "multidotting kings"
marble hemlock
sure, if you run 3xSS, thats somewhat correct, and thats why 3xSS is a good build for dungeons where the parameters are exactly that, like temple, KR or even underrot to a degree
dark token
there is no scenario when you only have to do sustained aoe and nothing else
marble hemlock
in dungeons where you can do bigger pulls, you have other options, by running scent or EB to get much more value on sustained AoE
dark token
in my experience EB doesnt make up for the dmg difference for having more dps on big pulls but less everywhere else
civic palm
Yeah M+ is almost all AoE > _> the higher the moreso that is true.
dark token
thats not m+, its 25% sustained aoe, 50% cleave, 25 % bosses
marble hemlock
thats why you prioritize improving aoe dps above all else, cause saving 10second on every trashpull easily makes up for losing 10sec on every boss
spice surge
Depends on how you pull
marble hemlock
even so, 2EB1SS works incredibly well even on 3-5mobs
marble hemlock
i mean no one logs m+
dark token
there are some pretty high ranked people that do
marble hemlock
name one
dark token
and also youtube vids
tawny nova
Link?
dark token
dylemma
civic palm
Tis ain't that bad either.
marble hemlock
different strokes for different people
but the consensus currently definitely moves towards 2EB
only toprogue whos not jumped on the EB train so far is ashine, and thats cause he plays with the 2 biggest padders on the planet
people are still under the assumption that rogue is the one who should hold back on aoe so other, better, classes can take care of that while the rogue provides more targeted damage
but at this point i am questioning that attitude, because its dumb to put your strongest aoe dps on hold just so classes who used to hold that spot can do their thing
dark token
alright, i looked at some more stuff from this week, you're right, most of my testing was right at the patch launch post nerf
where i wrote it off as it didnt seem like a higher dps combo
civic palm
Yeah at that time people didn't try the new stuff, and didn't touch it because of a 75% damage nerf.
marble hemlock
theres still a lot of testing to be done
at the beginning i didnt really like EB for more than motherlode/freehold
dark token
although im not sure it will do more dmg for me even tho i have 2 of the traits since i typically just pug 15-17s
safe matrix
did someone just say that they were wrong on the internet
dark token
and dont have a consistent groups
marble hemlock
its surprisingly good even on smaller pulls or pulls that dont last very long
dark token
actually rip i have one 390 one the other is 375
civic palm
Yeah considering the DMG is instant and not like CT, and it doesn't dip into Mastery you do tend to have 30%+ crit.
dark token
do you run Ct with that or the fok talent
marble hemlock
https://clips.twitch.tv/AmericanMiniatureBeeHassaanChop thats a ML16 we did earlier this week. i actually forgot to spec CT for that one, and didnt get PB procs, still insanely good burst aoe
CT
gonna try HB as well at some point, since a lot of the value of EB actually doesnt come from the echo itself
but the fok base-damage increase
marble hemlock
2traits is ~900basedamage increase on an ability that usually has ~2.5k basedamage
thats pretty significant
dark token
ill try running one on the dungeons with bigger pulls
marble hemlock
and that basedamage increase gets scaled by HB, yeah
the echo itself doesnt scale with HB tho, and CT just works very well as a filler between fok spams
once you secured your energy sustain, you just spam fok, overcap CP, and fill with CT to keep up EP
pretty dull
but then again, so is 3xSS 😄
although i do prefer the scent gameplay, it seems EB is just straightup better in most situations right now 😦
dark token
fok overcap over ct 🤔
marble hemlock
yeah
ct initial damage is like 3k
per target
so on a 10pull mob thats ~30k dpe
fok easily hits 50-80k with max echoes on a pull that size
spice surge
Nightstalker+hb combo?? Pog
civic palm
nostahpnothappening
marble hemlock
i played around with NS+DS for a while
didnt seem worth it in the current state
even when keeping 6CP from previous pack, opening with NS CT and then building ruptures, you just starve energy on every pull
civic palm
Yeah =\
marble hemlock
subterfuge+vigor+ss is just too good an opener in terms of energy buildup and ramp-up
spice surge
I meant with hidden blades to meme with ns, skipping the CT &ds
spice surge
I know
marble hemlock
https://clips.twitch.tv/SmoothMushyToothBCouch same pull with CT in case youre interested
civic palm
Stop favoriting this crap.
marble hemlock
hitting 100k before i die to aggro 😦
marble hemlock
2EB1SS actually made me enjoy the game again until last night
civic palm
_>
marble hemlock
when we did Tol Dagor and mobs fell through the floor again
after ring of peace
and pulled half the dungeon
that then hit us through the floor
civic palm
=\ =\ =\ =\ =\
marble hemlock
3months in that shit still hasnt been fixed ><
civic palm
The floor targeting being gigaShit.
marble hemlock
mobs just get knocked up in the air
and then they clip through the wall or fall through the floor
civic palm
I am starting to think that that shit is such a fucking nightmare to fix that it just takes for fucking ever.
marble hemlock
land one floor lower
pull shit you skipped there
and since those mobs you skipped have shadowstep, they just shadowstep through the ceiling into you, which is nice when one of them is infested 😄
dark token
although im not sure if running EB sin is better than sub on some of these dungeons
vapid moth
I still only have 1 EB and it seems I'll never get anaothe till new raid
marble hemlock
sub struggles a lot right now
since its lost its identity
i mean, its blasting on singletarget with the new FD
but with how packed dungeons are with trash, ST just isnt a concern
in legion you usually got 2 dps classes, one sustained one burst, and one ST blaster
dark token
it still has decent aoe->st conversion
marble hemlock
since bosses forced you to kill them before you ran out of CDs/externals
dark token
same overall dps just less tunnelled
obsidian girder
is it worth to do rupture on almost dead adds to get energy ?
dark token
like 30% less tunnel
marble hemlock
is replicating still bugged as hell? was wondering how itll play with replicating
depends on the situation amazingJD
dark token
idk havent heard
marble hemlock
if its a giga aoe pull, definitely
you dont wanna spend 3-4 ruptures to sustain energy, when you can just spam other finishers/abilities that deal more damage per GCD and sustain energy by just hitting that one well-timed rupture to refill your entire energy bar
so if you have a choice between sustaining ~4ruptures for passive energy regen vs burst energy-refills, you definitely want to play around the refills
vapid moth
Are you on a keyboard?
obsidian girder
think i still got to low haste because i run out of energy lets say if there are 2 targets. if one is almost dieing i cast rupture on it to get everything back on my main target
marble hemlock
thats by design
youre not supposed to sustain energy on 1-2 targets
you can barely make due on 3
wdym xae?
obsidian girder
okay. and i always want to have garrote on long living adds ?
vapid moth
You type fast
marble hemlock
not the only thing i do fast
only if its necessary to sustain energy amazingJD, so on 3targets? yes
on bigger aoe pulls, no
you just pop your 3xgarrote in your opener since those are empowered, and then you dont garrote at all unless theres a priority target
dark token
on aoe pulls you 3x garrote and then only snipe rupture? 🤔
marble hemlock
nah, i multi-rupture
theres not that many pulls where you can get by by just sniping ruptures on low-health mobs
works well in waycrest
but thats really the only dungeon
opener works pretty well like this: g g g ct fok rup fok rup fok rup fok rup fok ct fok fok fok fok ct repeat
and refresh ruptures that are about to drop
obsidian girder
think i failed with garrote there.. tried to cast it on kinda everything in aoe fights. everytime its up ._. stupid^^
lost sentinel
I think you use it on cd if the target will live long enough for the damage to matter
vapid moth
At certain points you wouldnt
marble hemlock
depends on the size of the pack
vapid moth
Depends on if fok would do more damage or not
marble hemlock
its just a matter of calculating whats better in the current situation
say your garrote deals ~18k damage over its full duration with ~33% crit
so youre sitting at ~24k damage for a full duration garrote
meanwhile your fok deals ~3k damage per target
so 4k with that amount of crit
then you just calculate the damage per gcd, and get a rough estimate on where the threshold is to use fok over garrote
thats obviously just a pure numbers comparison, fok also generates more CP which is pretty significant
lost sentinel
if you're already energy flush, sure, fok might be better for pure damage
marble hemlock
but even with current numbers garrote is barely worth it on 4+ targets already unless youre running very low crit
garrote is a bad energy generator
since you multi-rupture anyway, that takes care of all your sorrows
for the same reason haste is a bad stat for aoe, it doesnt actually impact our energy regen since we're generating "unlimited" resources through multi-rupturing
you can also approach the rupture vs ct issue the same way really, once youre already capping/sustaining energy, at what mobcount do you want to cast a full-duration rupture (if it runs full duration) vs just refreshing CT prior to its pandemic time
assa on aoe is almost entirely about reading the situation and using either an ability that most efficiently generates resources you will need, and once that priority is taken care off for the next ~5seconds just using whichever ability provides the most damage for that single GCD
civic palm
and remember that Garrote does the same DMG per Tick as Rupture but does not have the same duration as Rupture.
If you can get away without casting Garrote outside the opener do it.
marble hemlock
fok is usually superior from a dpe pov
civic palm
time to stack crit/vers and just FoK our brains out JK
marble hemlock
36% crit certainly feels great 😄
with spyglass/3x unstable/weapon enchant procs up
you hit ~65% crit
civic palm
Yarrr
marble hemlock
id love to try the darkshore WB trinket 😦
safe matrix
just get it 
marble hemlock
😦
civic palm
wtb (but not really) big ol fat stat stick trinkets please
marble hemlock
from the sounds of it that trinket looks almost like a stat-stick
since the crit-value it provides is pretty low
civic palm
Yeah.
grizzled jay
Did they buff eb or smth after the 75% nerf ?
spice surge
At the same time they nerfed it by 75% they also made the extra waves always crit
So its closer to a 50% nerf
civic palm
Yeppers.
grizzled jay
I got 2 390 with EB and a 375 SS one. Fun
Just running 3 SS has become a bit boring to me
wary anchor
How many mobs needed before it’s better to spam ct over env?
civic palm
However many it takes for the initial DMG of the CT to deal more damage than a singular Envenom.
This is going to differ due to your AGI/Vers/etc.
grizzled jay
Isn't having one envenom up good anyway for the deadly poison procs?
civic palm
DP isn't very impressive atm and the raw damage from FoK and CT make up for it.
grizzled jay
Ah okay
civic palm
If you're having worries about using CT incorrectly then just use Poison Bomb though.
grizzled jay
Interesting
civic palm
Remember that Mastery scaling was almost halved going into BfA due to adding Bleeds to its' scaling.
So while DP was 👌 in Legion it's different now.
grizzled jay
I prefer CT cause I do high-ish keys. Pb only for temple and king's
civic palm
w/e works best for you 👍
grizzled jay
Wish they removed PB. Give me kingsbane
civic palm
Nah it's fine, has to be a passive/no frills option on the talent tree and Poison Bomb is at least usable.
grizzled jay
Btw you guys think it might be straight up better to farm M0 ( world tour ) once Season 2 begins for 370 azerite with 5th ring? Cause Im guessing having one more trait is better than more agi
civic palm
Depends on where the item level is, you're probably not gonna sack 30 levels over a trait but I do not know for sure.
Just do the raids, tons of Azerite.
and extremely strong combos for Assassination.
grizzled jay
Yeah seems sin is getting better and better and better
Vendetta trait makes things pretty smooth so it will be nice to have it without sacking another trait
civic palm
It's also a shit ton of damage.
chrome stag
yo guys, just got 385 helm from world boss with an interesting trait - deep roots that give me versa when standing in place or 570 healing per 0.9s when moving or rupture trait. I currently wear hc uldir helm, but was wondering if this one with healing might be better for bg and open world pvp?
queen fjord
Hello lads! https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qVk9kmCgnSJWDiGpsAbTiD Here is my top gear sims. What im wondering is, now that i got finally a double dose trait, how come exang still beats toxic blade. Whats the factor that changes the fact that TB overruns exang? another rogue on guild constantly sims more with TB even with 1 SS on. Cheers
grizzled jay
Boon and you running one SS
Boon is usually the one making exang better
Sim with other trinkets and it should yeild other results but similar
grizzled jay
Using boon effectively with exang throughout the whole fight is pretty daunting in mythic difficulty. But if ure pro you can. Id rather lose the fake 100 dps which wont matter and play TB
velvet kernel
you know you only really line up boon and exsang roghly twice
roughly
because you never delay exsang for boon
queen fjord
Hmm. deadeye 370 or overcharger 370 and go TB even with 1 SS? i mean it sims less but might result better in actual mythic enviroment
Or should i drop all SS and go double archive double dose then if i swap to TB?
spice surge
For raids just go with what Sims the highest or what you prefer to play
queen fjord
the thing is. i sim quite a bit more than our second rogue. But he plays TB and performs better in several cases. Either i play wrong, and cant realise where, or TB plays a bit better in situations like ghuun and so on
IDK mby ill try TB with 1 SS
coarse knot
Most likely just depends on the fight
He could be having more uptime on the boss and stuff
shy axle
are you garroting on cd in myth+ trashpack if the mob lives long enough ?
brisk forge
Ofc else u miss out one spell totally 😳
shy axle
okay thx, i did it but not on cd if someone dies or is lowhp, were just spamming env after 3 gar/3 rup
just wanted to check if i could do something better
bleak spoke
How many ruptures should we put up before it’s better to just spam ct
In a large pack
ruby idol
5+ targets you are NOT reapplying garrotes outside of the opener or vanish
magic mural
@bleak spoke triple garrote -> 1x CT (except you wanna exsang a huge guy, then rupture and gcb, vendetta etc) -> fok to 4+cp & rupture, until CT is about to drop. Reapply CT then
Depending on how lucky you are with crits, you are gonna have 3-5 ruptures between those to CTs. You should have 4-6 ruptures (depending on your haste and lust) before you start fok & CT spam (and enough target, otherwise envenom is worth more)
violet sonnet
Reorig ray over shrouded for raiding right?
obsidian girder
why does the darkmoon deck 355 always sim higher than doom's wake 370 ? like 1k dps
cobalt gyro
Because fathoms is op
obsidian girder
trolling or are you serious ?
echo night
Fathoms is amazing and overtuned :)
obsidian girder
oh okay .o
spice surge
It shouldn't sim 1k above, then you're simming wrong
The trinket itself barrely adds 1k
obsidian girder
ye was a little bit exaggerated. was kinda disapointed that my 370 trinket is so useless 😦
so the freehold farm goes on
royal lantern
i have a 380 boon and 370 dice, fatoms still beter then the dice for pure st pal
hollow stone
Can anyone help me to fully understand eb? If fok1 crits 5 times, does eb proc fully then? Or can it only proc 1/5 each cast. And it resets each combat i take it?
spice surge
If your fok crits 5 times you get 5 extra waves, if it crits 3 times you get 3 extra waves, if it crits 16 times you still get 5 extra waves
hollow stone
Perfect. As usual you do not disappoint my friend
spice surge
Its per cast, nothing to do with combat
hollow stone
When does it "reset" tho?
Cause its not like it only procs on the first pull of m+ and then never again lol
spice surge
The waves comes from the enemies not you
hollow stone
Yea
spice surge
Therefore it only proccs on the first 5 you hit
hollow stone
Yea
spice surge
Crit *
hollow stone
But per combat?
hollow stone
Ohhhhh
spice surge
The first 5 of every cast
royal lantern
deepens, its good when you are actually spamming fok, but ussules for single target
paper heron
Any trait combo want me to fok at 2 targets ? I play eb ss twist. It’s hard to tell if I do better dps with envenom or fok
simple meteor
this trait apothecarys concoctions is it so shit as bloodmallet says boys?
spice surge
Use topgear on Raidbots.com
halcyon dawn
and hoiw does that work lel
thorn fiber
Is Bloodmallet accurate?
simple ocean
Supposedly herodamage is better
thorn fiber
Cause it’s telling me spyglass 355 ilvl sims higher than the 385 razorleaf trinket from darkshore
@simple ocean thanks Herodamage just confirmed my suspicions that bloodmallet was wrong on that (though it’s still pretty close)
spice mango
If I have two of the nothing personal traits does either of the effects stack?
I always have trouble figuring out if traits stack or not
Thank you tisumi
wooden crown
for 1v1 duels do you guys think poison or bleed is the way to go?
vapid moth
Depends on who you're facing
I wouldnt use bleed on a pally cause so many immune. On a warrior sure
spice surge
You never use exsang in pvp, always tb
vapid moth
Its 1 v 1 though
crude agate
question, I tried simming the engineering 385 helm vs scent for blood 385 on dungeon slice
barrage of many bombs came out way ahead
is the eng helm actually viable?
undone verge
Who never uses exsang in pvp ....
vapid moth
timid python
TB or Exsan in mythic uldir
strange python
wary anchor
whats the opener with subterfuge + toxic blade without SS?
tranquil wolf
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
narrow hull
should you use crimson tempest on 2 targets?
obsidian ridge
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
strange python
Has there been any theorycrafting behind azerite pieces in Battle of dazar alor or w/e its called?
lusty gale
on mythrax on theory it should be better to use the exsanguinate instead of tb?
cuz you can put up ur empowered dots and use exsanguinate right before it disappears?
is there way to sim it or does anyone have knowledge on this matter?
spice surge
Using exsang right before the add dissappears would be a waste, as the dots stay anyway
vast forum
both TB and exsg are great on mythrax
it's 50-50 on what the highest logs use
or was when i last checked
actually, TB seems to be quite a bit ahead atm
dark token
tb tends to be better on mythrax
and on longer duration fights in general
even for me with 2 390SS and full haste gear TB is verrrry close on 8 min fights
rare sleet
how much haste are sin rogues running right now? looking to switch from outlaw going into the new raid in Jan?
tepid ridge
anyone who got a good weakaura who track empowered garotte from subterfuge and / or empowered bleeds by exsag?
can't find anything decent 😦
rough phoenix
3x EB is pretty fun
nimble tartan
If you dont use MA tb u are not CHAD
tepid ridge
still no answer about empowered bleeds tracking? 😦
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
leaden garden
Is asa still good for raids?
dark crag
Yes
leaden garden
And for m+? Like 10-15keys
vast forum
depends on the tank
lost horizon
Any spec is fine for 10-15
dark crag
Assa becomes better when tanks become worse
lost horizon
Worse?
dark crag
Yes
lost horizon
I'd say a tank that can play around their comp is better, but whatever you say 🤷
dark crag
I say assa doesn't suffer much when the tank is bad
lost horizon
It does if you're using SS and they mongo chain pull before you can restealth
dark crag
Sub suffers more, outlaw without bf charges is not even a spec
lost horizon
How does sub suffer more?
fluid mist
Guys, could somebody be so kind to look at my Sim and tell me why i am simming this low compared to other rogues my ilvl? Very much appreciated!
dark crag
Mongo chaining means the tank or heal have gear, bad tanks tend to pull small, or cc groups and pull 1 by 1
lost horizon
@fluid mist reorigination array
@dark crag honestly I think 'bad tank' covers a lot of shitty decisions
fluid mist
I put The stacks on 10 tho.. does that make all The difference?
lost horizon
Not just slow pulling or chaining badly
@fluid mist you need an uldir piece to have RA active
Archive or laser
dark crag
You have 4 mobs, 1 infested. Cc the infested, i cry everytime
lost horizon
Cc the infested and pull another pack with the 3, e z
But for real there's too many 'bad tank' scenarios
dark crag
Kill all until only infested are left pull them all
lost horizon
Ideally, but that fucks sin over if you have to stagger
Cause you won't get restealth
dark crag
Kill 3 infested, run away when ghuuns spawn
fluid mist
@lost horizon thanks!
dark crag
I didn't know ghuuns hit with no targets to infest
dark crag
The best are dk tanks in ad who mc, break cc they call and flame grp for bad cc
lost horizon
I love bdk controlling the infested though, so clean if they know what they're doing
And you can restealth after when you gotta kill it
dark crag
"Guys we skip kr trash before first boss, oh i died, heals alive, trash after boss dead, here deal with all trash, i am better than illidan"
That dh was the greatest, 1.5k score
Thanks volcanic
lost horizon
LOL did he pull everything or what?
dark crag
Yes
He died at the last guy of the 4 room after 1. Boss
Heal cast rezz, dh releases felrush to trash pulls all
Tank leaves dungeon
Kr 14
lost horizon
Smooth run
earnest pumice
prolly simming low cause most people sim with 10x reorig 😛
vast forum
pandemic i guess you mean
fringe estuary
ahh yeah
pale agate
on AD, after you kill the totem boss, typically you go down the stairs afterwards. in the pack at the bottom, is it possible to sap the infested mob despite the truesight?
i thought distract might work but didn't want to risk it
rustic ether
azerokks resonating crystal any good for m+?
i assume the procs are slow due to the huge agi proc
cobalt gyro
It's about 1 rppm
fresh dock
!m+
prisma monolithBOT
Use the fight style Dungeon Slice (Beta) for a M+ simulation on Raidbots.
strange python
@pale agate yes
pale agate
you just distract the two shieldbearers in the opposite direction?
undone verge
and you can blind
fluid egret
best azerite combo for m+?
thick narwhal
I was directing @fluid egret
safe matrix
then he can do it too 
fluid egret
i read through it several times before posting my question, as it asks to do. am i to consult hero damage and / or the m+ guide? was curious as to what y'all run.
young socket
guess you can't go wrong with 3x SS
latent field
If rupture has fallen off and I have less then 4 CPs should I rupture at lower than 4 combo points?
lost horizon
i'd say you should never really be in that situation
but yeah i'd refresh at like 3 if i didn't have enough energy to mut
olive moth
Do we save vanish for vendetta?
latent field
Yup
olive moth
So it essentially lines up with each V after the first
latent field
Exactly
latent field
Yeah, the only time I think you should pop it is if the boss is gonna die before your empowered garrotes would fall off
olive moth
fair call
nocturne gate
someone tried eb on zul ? im the only rogue and the crawgs are exploding so i cant see a good usage for the sub build
spice surge
Its for padding 🤷 It will do more overall damage, but its far worse for actually killing the boss
If your group still makes the push and you want to pad, go ahead, if you want to kill the boss you either go sub or just full ST
nocturne gate
we playin the normal strat with killing the first 2 waves of the hexer
alpine hazel
anyone have any good thoughts about Apothecary's Concoctions trait?
royal lantern
if im right its pretty bad
royal lantern
tbf, i used tradewinds on zul progression too give the other rogues more mastery
but that was the old sub strat+zul sooo.....a bit special
alpine hazel
got it on a 385 chest, but have AoT chest 370 equipped
steep obsidian
old strat for zul? sub strat still works its just not completely bonkers like it was 😛
only do double boss damage instead of like 3x everyone else
thick narwhal
as long as people don't kill your crawgs >__>
royal lantern
thats the problem
those greedy locks/boomkins/dh just wait too pad for dps and burst shit down now:P
thick narwhal
you have to be firm and let them know, the the miniscule dps they're getting from padding their dmg doesn't compare to the massive amount of dps you get from keeping those crawgs alive. and you doing more dps= zul being downed
had a pug with the raid leader practically holding the groups hand on not doing dumb shit during zul fight and it was like talking to a fucking cat
tawny sable
does anyone know of a good m+ resource for each dungeon? showing what mobs need special attention as far as interrupts go and stuff like that?
dont say the dungeon journal
😬
thick narwhal
dbm
honest needle
is any 1 in here good with bartender. I am trying to setup a bar and i took always hide off i unchecked it and the bar wont show up
thick narwhal
will literally shout at you when a mob is casting something dangerous
tawny sable
yeah, im with you. i'm trying to find something that the group can study ahead of time to be a little more knowledgeable going in instead of being reactionary
thick narwhal
in that case just have to run norm mythics
they're easy enough with the same mechanics
tawny sable
yeah
wary anchor
Can a shrouded piece even drpo from the azerite caches?
spice surge
Theres is one shoulderpiece from zandalari and a chest from volduun
wary anchor
i mean the emissary
honest needle
can some 1 help me that uses bartender addon\
spice surge
Yes, the emissaries from volduun and zandalar has 1 piece each that has ss
lost sentinel
is there a list of M+ azerite pieces with the season 2 traits, like the extra ring... not that you can really target any just curious how they stack up vs the new raid pieces
spice surge
Wowhead ptr has them
lost sentinel
k
tidal jetty
@tawny sable You should check out the method dungeon tools addon for that. Its the bomb for looking at what specific mobs do etcetc. (also good for mapping out your pull patterns)
charred sail
does EB trait stack? Is it worth? (i do not have SS yet)
spice surge
Yes, everything that does damage or gives stats always stacks
Whereas the other things doesn't
sturdy python
Whether it's worth just depends on the situation and what else you have, hard to tell
bleak spoke
Azerite.info is like unusable now cuz they have all the outer outer rings but I guess if you want to look at them it’s perfect
Kinda neat how much stuff has SS
left storm
Method dungeon tool even tells you what is infested in a 10 or higher key.
It’s superrr useful.
I still believe a practice regular Mythic run is best for a team who hasn’t been together very long.
timid plume
What do ppl do to sim dungeons? I think I saw it somewhere but I cant find it again.
sturdy python
!m+
prisma monolithBOT
Use the fight style Dungeon Slice (Beta) for a M+ simulation on Raidbots.
sturdy python
Also consider 4-6t patchwerk over 40s without raid buffs for long living, bigger packs
timid plume
ty
uneven bolt
Maybe, it's not rly related for here but ill take my shot, I just came back to WoW from a 3month break and rerolled Sin again, and for some reasons, my aoe aint that great...any tips? 😄 Garrote and Rupture adds then envenom, like in legion? 😄
sturdy python
Essentially but need to consider CT too. Watch the method video in pins for a good start
uneven bolt
I tried CT, not really my style, Im on PB atm
tawny sable
@tidal jetty thanks
fluid mist
Just out of curiousity. What dps do you Guys Sim on a quick Sim dungeon slice? At around 380 ilvl?
strange python
12
prisma monolithBOT
Use the fight style Dungeon Slice (Beta) for a M+ simulation on Raidbots.
dark token
@fluid mist 23k, but im 386
fluid mist
Let me rephrase my question. Is this what i should be simming around at my ilvl? :p
dark token
you shouldnt use toxic blade in m+
run a top gear sim with various talents and gear combo waited for more crit + mastery and trinkets
prioritise traits such as echoing blades, scent of blood, and shrouded suffication
if u have a better chest trait try and use that
fluid mist
Thanks for The pointers. I suppose you suggest running exsang?
dark token
yeah
fluid mist
Where does one attempt to enroll in a probable rng shitshow to get myself an eb trait on a chestpiece?
spice surge
I'd say get an ss chest and get Eb on helm and shoulders, way easier as all comes from either raid or emissaries
But there is a chest with Eb from pvp
fluid mist
But The emissaries drop low ilvl pieces isn’t that a problem?
spice surge
Emissaries are 370
fluid mist
Yeah but all The pieces i run now are 385
spice surge
Well you already have good traits except your chest lol
You don't need Eb, it's just a good trait. Ss and scent are also good
So just replace your np chest with either of those and youre gucci
fluid mist
@dark token exsang ct Sims almost 1k lower than tb pb lol
😃 thanks
Can you link me your Sim eleem? Or tell me realm/name so i can Sim it myself
onyx rock
just keep your eyes open for a thick panda
fluid mist
Them Pvp pieces you got. I should start pvping :p
final stone
fluid mist
Well it gives you array within uldir. So if you have No other traits that do and you are in there i suggest using it
floral frost
is dungeon slice accurate when simming? i get the opposite stat weight when doing vs 6bosses 40 sec
sturdy python
Yes, if you go to tc research and scroll up and there's a picture of the exact pulls it sims
The aoe pulls don't last long at all and that's why you're getting that
kind eagle
So I just ran a top gear sim, and its telling me that my shoulders with DD is better than EB, both are 375 pieces. Thoughts?
sturdy python
Simming dungeon slice?
dark token
@fluid mist thats the difference between pb and ct not exsang and tb
ct is undervalued in dungeonslice
pick it based on dungeon pulls and the week
motherload/tol dagor/other big pull dungeons take CT but if its boss heavy or short pulls like underrot/kr take pb
kind eagle
what would be the prefered sim as im looking for mythic plus numbers
halp?
you think so
i was told it was a meh at best sim
kind eagle
depends on the week but usually a pack or two at a time
kind eagle
i'm running a sim right now with dungeon slice to see where it comes out at
normal spear
what do you want to know with simming? better talents/traits?
kind eagle
traits and i have a few pieces of gear that dropped and i'm wondering if they are better than what i have currently equipped
I"m currently running SSx2 and EB. Just curious if the DD shoulders i have are better or not, and some boots and gloves that dropped.
kind eagle
makes sense.
static hedge
It simmed me 500 more dps with TB and PB over exsang and CT with Dungeon Slice with SSx2 and EB.
That doesn’t sound right?? I thought CT was mo betta for m+?
kind eagle
im curious because someone mentioned to me that EB and SS are different playstyles and don't go together.... but when we pull large i would normally open up with 3 garrotes in to a rupture then FoK spam and spening at 5 combo points
normal spear
dungeon slice is not pure trash. it has a boss fight in it
because of that CT has 0 value
on boss
kind eagle
i'm new to rogue...i just started playing rogue a month or so ago
normal spear
and sims lower
static hedge
Does it default to what the affixes are that week? So on fort + teaming weeks, CT will sim higher than weeks like this?
undone verge
@kind eagle , how many ruptures are you getting off by waiting till 5 CP and how long are they lasting on the targets?
normal spear
nope, sim doesn't account for affixes
sturdy python
It doesn't sim lower because of the boss, the 4+ pack lasts only 19 or less seconds
static hedge
Hmm dungeon slice seems kinda funky then.
sturdy python
So yo don't even get value from CT where you should
kind eagle
@undone verge i'll usally get 2 to 3 ruptures off. i usally pop my galcallers as well on trash
thats the newest sim
undone verge
don't wait till 5 cp to rupture if you're missing mobs
kind eagle
really?
undone verge
i'm no rogue pro, but more ruptures > longer lasting ruptures
kind eagle
it may sound stupid, but i am new here
sturdy python
That all depends on the pack and how long they're living
undone verge
no worries, i am newer to rogue and i was pretty distraught at first trying to figure out how to rogue. i was used to warrior/dh
kind eagle
@undone verge yea i also play dh and its been an adjustment coming to rogue......that class fantasy tho LOL
static hedge
If the pack is non elites or dying soon, no point in doing a 5pt rup if it’s only going to get 2-3 tics worth
undone verge
if we were pulling like 4 mobs i'd g, g, g, r, fok, r, fok, r, fok, r
depends on who you run with too, my mobs don't stay up long enough for a 5 cp rupture to last
sturdy python
Of you're running actual difficult content then Max cp rups will be the norm
kind eagle
@static hedge @sturdy python makes sense as i was doing some 11-14 keys last night with some buddies that are floating around 385 ilvl and shit just died so fast my dmg was super low at the end of the dungeon
sturdy python
If things are dying too fast just envenom might be worth more
undone verge
i might not even rupture all, and if i exsang it'll either be for a kill target or a secondary kill target because my asshole dhs are gonna kill everything before i do dot damage
sturdy python
Situational, gotta figure it iut
undone verge
actual difficult content, m12+
ya there is no correct rotation with it, it's situational and challenging. good for hipsters 😉
static hedge
Yeah unless you run with the same crew everywhere and know the dps, be ready to swap up your style often @kind eagle
In m+ at least
undone verge
true. also i normally just got 3x ss for the rgk
sturdy python
It's not just hitting eye beam and blade dance over and over
kind eagle
rgk?
kind eagle
i don't have a 3rd SS piece unfortuneltly
undone verge
not needed, you'll still do good
static hedge
It’s not needed. Preferred maybe but it’s not like you’ll hit a wall without 3 SS
kind eagle
Ok so my dmg was low last night because i had 1900 rated DH and Ret dps in group that where blasting shit down faster than I could get bleed dmg up then
static hedge
You’ll have a lot of improvements to do with rotation and routes before 3 SS will make the hair cutting difference
kind eagle
it came down to me not adjusting my play based off of how fast shit was dying it sounds like
undone verge
at that point you just fok and look cool
static hedge
lol
kind eagle
lol
static hedge
What dungeon were you doing ?
undone verge
just make sure you get stealth between pulls if possible, those garrotes are 35-40% of my damage in dungeons
static hedge
With 1900 io they probably had much better gear than you too likely. Even if they had 10 ilvl more, that’s a huge amount of difference
374 you can def struggle against someone 380-385 that’s optimally geared
kind eagle
Yea, getting stealth off in the SoB was tough. I'm only sitting at 1134ish io , my buddies are all pushing 2k and these keys are a roflstop for them so....i was wondering if they way they were pulling an pumping was a contributor
i'm learning that rogue has a lot more skill cap involved in its play compared to my DH
LOL
undone verge
that's how i see it too.. if it wasn't for all the utility of a rogue and the miserable questing/leveling then i'd maybe switch back. just keep practicing though, rogue is cool.
chilly marsh
Echoing Blades or SS for M+ ?
static hedge
You’ll never do go wrong with SS
spice surge
Either one is fine, depends on pull size
elder quarry
how good is Apothecary's Conconctions trait for pvp/pve?
spice surge
Its on herodamage
elder quarry
never heard of that site, thanks
primal gazelle
finally timed my first +15 shrine, no voice all azralon group, its a christmas miracle
static hedge
Sounds like shrine pugs 
elder quarry
@static hedge I cant find any good info for pvp
static hedge
Oh yeah can’t really help there. I stopped pvping when I hit 1800 cause I got tired of pvp pugs.
primal gazelle
@kind eagle theres a ton of pulls in SOB where the mobs are super low health and just dies 5-10 secs into the pull where your bleeds wont have time to ramp up damage, esp with a DH
supple hearth
@elder quarry its not a good trait for pvp
undone verge
@primal gazelle grats! what's outer traits and stat %s are you running?
I did a pug m+ the other day and the tank said "f$ck your stealth" and chain pulled the entire time
spice surge
That's unfortunate
static hedge
Let me guess, he then complained about why you didn’t do enough dps at the end of the dungeon? @undone verge
Hate tanks like that. Although I’ll get a chain of tanks like that and it makes me want to go Outlaw for the rest of the day
chilly marsh
using 3 EB traints ?
primal gazelle
im a true memer
undone verge
lol
kind eagle
whats the best use of Gallcallers Boon?
undone verge
before exsang
kind eagle
i don't run exsang
undone verge
good looking gear, high crit/3x eb, are you also doing MA @primal gazelle
@static hedge actually i didn't do too bad for no stealths outside of vanish.. but instead I pulled everything i could with tricks
pulsar heron
Hi guys! My dps is a bit low, and i cant find the reason behind why im lackin in both aoe and single target. I dont know if im doing the stat weights wrong or i've chosen the wrong azerite traits.Sry for disturbing you all but im getting pretty annoyed by my lack of dps haha https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/tarren-mill/Vendecus
undone verge
have you looked at raidbot/simc/amr type things before?
pulsar heron
ive done the simc and used raidbots and it says i should be around 13k dps but i fall down sometimes to 10 or even 9k
im not sure what amr is tbh
Haha true my bad, is that an addon to see logs?
static hedge
13 is low for 379
primal gazelle
static hedge
Are you more concerned with m+ or raid @pulsar heron
undone verge
i don't play much these days so i don't know if there are better ways to do it but...
get simulationcraft addon
go in game
type /simc
copy the content into raidbots
press sim
look at the html print out
scroll down and find actions priority list
read what the bot does to be efficient
do that on dummies in game
pulsar heron
Ah ok thats pretty smart thanks @undone verge
static hedge
Do you have a different chest @pulsar heron ?
Echoing blades, shrouded suffocation by chance?
pulsar heron
Yea i have shrouded suffocation on the shoulders
quick echo
monkaS
pulsar heron
traits on chest are atm nothing personal overwhelming power resounding protection and the ilvl boost
solid nova
!ban @strange python NSFW
static hedge
Do you have a different chest with different trait @pulsar heron ? that one isn’t so hot
And yeah what schneidvegas said. When in doubt, sim every piece of loot
Even if it’s a downgrade on ilvl.
pulsar heron
ok thanks for all the advice guys
And how do i get a log? I checked the site that from @primal gazelle but could see any logs at all
undone verge
and i've kept most of my pieces for any tweaks.. my 345 ss shoulders sim the same as my 375 eb shoulders
pulsar heron
ah ok xD ill start saving gear for stat tweakin
undone verge
so people use the warcraftlogs app to upload the combat logs to them, thats how m+ and raids get logged.
you could set it up for yourself and then log in m+, it'll log everyone in game but it just adds content to warcraftlogs
pulsar heron
ah ok thanks
pale agate
what dungeons drop haste/crit rings? I've gotten them from freehold and siege, any others?
visual quartz
theres a cool thing on the bottom right, shows loot from every dungeon/raid in the game. Can't recall the tab name.
honest basin
Adventurer's Guide I think
pale agate
oh good call, I always forget this thing exists
primal gazelle
freehold drops high haste low crit ring
i have a 395 version its pretty pogg, like 320+ haste
wanton mortar
since when cheat death dont reset on death?????????
spice surge
8.1
wanton mortar
damm i didnt see any of that in the patch notes
random scroll
the undocumented patch notes is bigger than the official one lul
fluid mist
Hey Guys, i got a quick question. Isn’t this a bit low for my ilvl with how “optimal” my gear is
Other rogue my ilvl in my guild is simming for 18k somehow
sturdy python
Can't look on phone, did you sim with array stacks?
fluid mist
I put on 10 stacks.
solid nova
Not according to the sim you didn't
fluid mist
Oh well. Lol thanks for looking into it!
sturdy python
Did you have a trait that activates it?
fluid mist
Yes on chest. Forced to run a 375 chest for it since i had to play rdps on fetid
Ah. I see i have logged off with ss trait selected on my chest since i was doing m+
Thanks!
winter gale
neon thunder
Both work. I use CT personally. But it's still a lot of testing this week. Everyone trying different traits and talent combos. Play what you feel comfortable with.
lost horizon
PB is fine for AoE, just much smaller radius
If you get a bdk grip even PB can do decent AoE on a big pull
neon thunder
PB afaik is preferred in ToS and KR where there isn't massive pulls.
lost horizon
If there's any time you're hard pressed to meet a boss DPS check too it can be worth going PB
People generally compare PB % dmg overall to CT and think it's way worse
Without realizing the resource commitment
PB definitely falls behind any time you can't group mobs up tightly though, compared to CT
rose shadow
bleak spoke
Dratnos has some videos that are worth watching
jovial fractal
I dunno whether to stay sin or make a switch to outlaw for new raid. The extra dagger n sword drops are tempting me. Ive been so unlucky for weap rolls
atomic willow
@bleak spoke drantos videos? I Googled and couldn't find anything
safe matrix
Sin is definitely a strong choice
Because it's the least punished spec by downtime, and strongest spec in a lot of situations
velvet urchin
hello guys.. which one is better for sin? bleed or toxic build?
civic palm
No such thing, next question!!
fading wigeon
Hi everyone. Quick question. If we are running exanguinate, should we be using it on cool down like TB?
I couldn't find anything about that in guide unless I am missing something
atomic willow
I like to use when I have just refreshed my bleeds
fading wigeon
@atomic willow thank you that makes sense
atomic willow
@fading wigeon sometimes I'll save it if there's an add that needs to get burned but other then that I use it when I have fresh bleeds
dark crag
On cd, reapply bleeds if they are low, hold exsang when vendetta/vanish come off cd, for a massive combo
karmic ingot
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
dark crag
verbal nimbus
Been away since new POE season, are we still lit?
grim sable
I hit 100k on zul trash
I never thought I would enjoy that platform
Echoing Blades has changed that
lusty gale
is it ok to use CT on 2 targets or is it better to do other finishing moves envenom/rupture?
cobalt gyro
I do if it's gonna live a long time, like tidesages in shrine
strange python
So I looked at the pin, saw the TLDR about 8.1, also looking at Blood Mallet, is SS not the top Azerite Trait anymore? I mostly do Mythic+
civic palm
Don't look at Bloodmallet.
lost horizon
SS is still good
civic palm
https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
They're willing to do the work to simulate multiple talent choices.
strange python
whats wrong with Blood Mallet?
civic palm
Poor methodology and presentation.
SS is still extremely good in M+ and pretty good in some places in a Raid setting.
strange python
oh wow they are completely different
civic palm
Should be higher up the ST list as well if you take SUB, and if you take EX.
Without SUB and EX, in a purely single target encounter with fights taking at least 3 damn minutes, SS doesn't compete with the likes of DD/NP/etc.
strange python
so you pretty much have to have those talents then
civic palm
SUB/EX/SS have even higher value if you are a Night Elf since you have the ability to use Shadowmeld to either get full empowerment for Dungeon trash, or partial empowerment in Raids and on Bosses.
civic palm
You do not have to do anything, there are simply better options, taking something "worse" isn't going to make things terrible for you.
Do take at least 1 SS into Dungeons regardless, as having 1 increases the amount of energy you have at the beginning of each combat by quite a large margin.
As well as being quite a lot of damage.
lost horizon
Honestly triple SS is juicy
Other builds work and have higher potential in certain situations but
SS is straight forward
civic palm
Yeah, SS is very straightfoward.
If you have a group that can pull larger groups then you have other options, but that always includes 1 SS.
lost horizon
As long as you can restealth and tab garrote you're gauranteed value
civic palm
Yeah, huge value even.
lost horizon
Yep
There's still decision making too on what to be hitting in the pack
For the silence and what will last long enough
civic palm
as well as the damage reduction.
lost horizon
Vanish + meld makes it dirty tbh
civic palm
Yeah if you are a NE anyway.
tepid ridge
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
cobalt gyro
playing allt lul
sturdy python
Master race is undead though?
civic palm
Naph
spice ice
cobalt gyro
during king's rest last boss, if you dot the add + dazar after he's mounted up, you effectively deal 2x dot damage during that section, yea?
lost horizon
You'll have 2 targets
marble hemlock
yes odowla, the damage you deal to the boss gets transferred to the raptor
so by multidotting, you help kill the raptor faster
ideally you wanna keep vanish for that phase and get a double subterfuge garrote out
you can also use cloak before the first fear, and be immune to that one
alpine hazel
What are a assi rogue supposed to be on in single target dps ? got 378 ilvl.
shy axle
sim it, depends on your gear
verbal blaze
anyone know if a trinket bleed effect would still be buffed by our mastery? I know most masteries were changed to make that not so, but assassination's is worded so that it may be possible
sacred ore
guys, Galley Banquet or Swamp Fish n' Chips?
dark crag
Yes
normal spear
if you can afford banquets, 75 agility would be better unless you've got some really haste-skewed stat weights
but the difference is negligible and you won't be using banquets all the time xD
agile token
I was wondering if anyone can answer my question regarding combo points.
I'm reading a guide on wowhead and it says I should be using rupture and envenom with 4 or more combo points, which makes sense. But I was wondering what the best way to get to 5 combo point is. Mutilate gives 2 points, so if you use mutilate twice, you're sitting on 4 points.
Should I use a third mutilate, overcap it and use rupture / envenom, or is it not a big deal and just use it on 4 combos
next wolf
random scroll
Wasting combo points means you're wasting energy and wasting energy means less spells which concludes in less damages
magic mural
Mutilate gives 2+1/crit.. So it can give 2,3,4.. Even one, if you miss one of the hits or smth. Same with fok. Only garrote always generates the same amount. That's why you use finisher on 4 and also way there is no optimal way of cp Gen in assassination
agile token
Makes sense. Another question is regarding vendetta.
So according to the Wowhead guide, it says I should never use vendetta and stealth / subterfuge together. Due to the opener mentioned on the same post, Vendetta comes off CD approximately 2 GCDs before vanish.
Should I delay my vanish usage until vendetta falls off, or should I use vanish even if vendetta is active in order to refresh garrote
sturdy python
No, use them together
It's saying don't cast vendetta while you still have subterfuge up, because you should be casting garrotes in that window
And the opener on wowhead has vendetta only 2 secs from vanish?
Doesn't seem correct
sturdy python
Are you using SS traits?
sturdy python
Ok makes sense then
agile token
Should I be?
sturdy python
Anyways, after opener you hold vendetta to line up with vanish
Just depends on what you have
Can't say for sure, gotta sim it
vast forum
Your rotation and cd usage depend heavily on what traits you have
sturdy python
Without SS traits you may want to think about using MA and not subt
agile token
Oh, I'm guessing SS is a 110+ trait, since I dont see it on my list
vast forum
Exactly
sturdy python
But again, you need to sim to see
Indeed
Sorry didn't know you were still leveling
agile token
No worries, I should have mentioned that earlier. Just messing around with rogues to see if I enjoy it
paper heron
With eb do I fok at 2 targets or still 3+
sturdy python
Without traits you'd want to hold vendetta to line up with vanish then do something like vanish>garrote>vendetta
agile token
I was thinking of doing vendetta -> mutilate or w/e I need to do at that time -> vanish -> garrote -> continue on
Or is vendetta worth holding onto
sturdy python
As long as the fully empowered garrote is inside the vendetta and you're not capping energy or holding vanish too long shoukd be fine
No, usually don't want to hold CDs
Only the first usage after opener to line up with vanisj
Or for certain mechanics of course
agile token
Gotcha. Thanks for the help!
sturdy python
Np
dark crag
Don't worry about rotation until you hit max lvl