cuz add only spawns once 😄
#assassination
strange python
cosmic forge
m+. 2x ss and 1x EB or 2EB and 1 SS?
spice surge
Well yes, if you have good dps
Or well, it spawns twice but you can just ignore the second one
But yes, dont use vanish nor vendetta on the intermission adds
Save em for the boss+add, use vendetta on add if you need damage on it, otherwise vendetta boss
strange python
stable pine
How often is assault? Daily?
strange python
scenic nacelle
I’ve seen a couple top parses of Mythrax using vanish on the Big add during intermission
sonic marten
assault is daily yes and i know of people who have gotten 395 belts and other random gear with sockets so it's not only azerite
assault countdown here on this site: http://assaulttimer.com/
solid lava
sonic marten
anyone know the available loot table for the cache from assaults?
is it anything from here? https://www.wowhead.com/item=163857/azerite-armor-cache#comments and i can get 385 azerite or is it just 370?
sonic marten
only 370?
wise star
Since when do hearthstones not break stealth?
lost sentinel
ya know, I don't remember but I think this is true - it doesn't break stealth only when you have subterfuge?
wise star
i just wondered cause i could use it w/o breaking it, got Subter though
lost sentinel
cause I had subterfuge off testing echoing blades... and it was knocking me out
I turned subterfuge on and it stayed stealthed
wise star
OP talent
visual quartz
I ran 2xSS 1xEB on motherload yesterday and it fellt nice
primal gazelle
i smoked another sin rogue that was using 1 ss 2x EB vs my 3x EB in a FH10 yesterday
17k overall vs 20k overall lol
he crushed me during bosses tho
flint swift
EB seems really crunchy for M+. Any idea what % of your DPS is from FoK @primal gazelle ?
Overall I mean.
flint swift
Holy hell haha
primal gazelle
i use MA tho
primal gazelle
its fun on shrine as well when you can pad on the slimes/tectacles/and those little mobs before 2nd boss
and eels
obviously its not like meaningful damage but its just fun to pump dps lul
flint swift
Yeah I really like shrine tbh. A lot of rogues I’ve talked to hate it, but I think it’s an example of really well done trash mobs
primal gazelle
the sims apl doesnt really sim eb correctly either
tawny shell
anyone else having an issue where their combo points show up delayed?
lone junco
Assuming it has multiple targets in range at start. Did you check it on 6t40?
And no SS.
It def won't want to fokfokfok. Took 3 months to get a ggg out of it.
primal gazelle
yeah i checked even at 10+ targets
always opened with garrote fok tempest
i think cos its trying to do dmg to the "priority target"
also ran sims for 5-10+ target sims and all time variations, tempest came out on top over pb/HB every time even with MA/3x echo
ocean sparrow
Incredibly envious of all you rogues with multiple EB pieces
woven crypt
im running 2 EB and 1 SS, only because its all i have
normal spear
hi, can someone give me CD management advice on vectis (toxic blade)? when do you vanish/vendetta?
unkempt karma
1EB + 2xSS with subt and hidden? Or CT?
kindred cedar
Do anyone have a weakuara to track rupture & garrote on focus target?
like a progress bar
primal gazelle
hidden isnt good
it was good with eb pre-nerf but doesnt sim as high as ct anymore
patent topaz
gimme
tender quail
I 'm not doing good parses on ghuun ><
normal spear
for what? SS is good for single target and godly in m+
it also changes your rotation a bit
i personally can't stand assa rotation without SS
terse hinge
If we're talking Uldir, would it be a good idea to get x2 Double Dosage, or x2 Shrouded Suffocation? I've been juggling with the two ideas, both poison mutilate, and bleed build sound promising but for Uldir I'm honestly not sure which of the 2 do more on average. Naturally I'd have 1 piece with Archive, so not going x3 either of them.
normal spear
DD is better on pure ST, SS gets much better when there's more than 1 target
uldir has only a few pure ST bosses, so i'd run 2 SS or 1SS 1DD (whatever sims higher)
shrewd vine
So DD over Twist the Knife? I believe Herodamage had 2x Archive and 1x Twist as best combination for ST in Raid
normal spear
herodamage/bloodmallet use a default character "model" and judge traits according to that default model
for more precise information you should use raidbots.com to sim your own character
shrewd vine
Ah ok tks
spice surge
@shrewd vine What you're talking about is stricly using raid gear
Which isnt actually the best
Since a lot of azerite from outside of the raid is better
sacred ore
@normal spear do you stack your SS traits? or Just keep one at least?
normal spear
i don't have a SS helm, so 1SS 1DD 1archive
sacred ore
Thanks! At the moment I have 2 Archives and 1 SS
honest needle
is the 85 main stat food better than the 55 haste food ? I kno its not better than feast
pliant nest
hey where do you get the 85 main stat food?
honest needle
cooking trainer
spice surge
There is no 55 haste food, its been 70 since week 2 of bfa
Tooltip's just been scuffed
pliant nest
tbh i dont think theres much of a difference between 70 haste and 85 agi
depends on your stat weights tho of course
desert vault
I wonder what I'm doing wrong reading rogues doing 17k overall on FH. Crazy.
grim blade
dps in an add heavy instance like FH also depends on your tank's willingness to pull a lot at once
coupled with good AOE azerite and or CT can put up some huge numbers
primal gazelle
@desert vault almost 20k in a FH 🤔
normal sphinx
What's that Ret Paladin doing, he should be much higher if their are big pulls!
spice surge
He said hes running MA, so yeah you wouldnt garrote then 😉
primal gazelle
fok with eb is like 40-50% of my dmg lol
lone junco
clearly means CT isnt going to last once you can get scent
spend your time tabbing that ass.
primal gazelle
trinket + pot --> fok fok fok ct--> fok -> rupture (lowest hp add so you get full energy bar back) --> get 100 energy --> vanish -> fok fok fok = burst for 80k
lone junco
not with 3scent though.
tabbing out all the ruptures will exceed the CT
so it will come down to HB vs PB on drag trash.
lost sentinel
I think I gotta try all in on eb
lone junco
sure. Just do someone elses key
primal gazelle
i dont spam CT tho, i just refresh every 12 secs
lost sentinel
I don't know if I have a shoulder piece with it yet
primal gazelle
should have energy to still fully rupture everything and cast CT
strange python
Do you ever cast envenom?
lost sentinel
founda piece, it'll be all 370 gear heheh
primal gazelle
i do, only at the end of the pull when everything is fully ruptured and ct'ed, i do TB, fok enveom, fok evenom, fok envenom sub style
strange python
you should use ct instead of envenom at 5+
primal gazelle
end of the pull usually means theres only 2-3 mobs remaining
primal gazelle
yes tb
strange python
Why?
primal gazelle
i dont run ss or sub, so no exsang for me
lost sentinel
seems like exsang would be better, just for the energy regen
primal gazelle
its not worth the global imo
strange python
Its worth the initial energy regen
which u will need
because ur 3 first abilties wont generate anything
primal gazelle
i dont garrote anything so exsang just 1 rupture feels useless
lost sentinel
you using EP or or master poisoner
primal gazelle
ep
primal gazelle
cost of using exsang = 2 globals cos garrote/exsang, instead i couldve casted FOK-> 5 pt rupture
fok dmg + additional rupture > energy gain from exsang
strange python
You can't always assume fok > 5cp
primal gazelle
i have 37% crit and get it easily with big pulls
strange python
And if you exsang early in the fight you will get in more casts
lost sentinel
that's neat, hitting 60k+ spikes on 4 target dummies lol
strange python
And what kind of use does TB even have in multitarget lol
primal gazelle
exsang just doubles your energy regen on "one" mob, which is kinda the same as getting another rupture off on a 2nd mob
lost sentinel
is there even a point to spamming CT since your FOK initial damage is higher than CT's? lol
primal gazelle
i dont spam ct, i only refresh
primal gazelle
would you agree that mana regen from rupture->exsang, is the same as rupture->fok->rupture?
@strange python
strange python
Because if ure running EB u wanna do big pulls
@primal gazelle No its not
2 globals != 3 globals
primal gazelle
tbh the key to the highest sustained dmg is to dot up lower hp mobs
for that instant 150 energy regen
for more fok spam
strange python
Yeah but thats not gonna happen at the beginning of pulls
3 ma foks arent going to bring mobs down to 5%
So you start with 3 foks > ct > fok > rup > exsang > fok and tab rup
primal gazelle
okay you run a m+ with me and we'll duke it out 😃
lost sentinel
might be better to rupture/exsang b4 ct
primal gazelle
you know what ill let sims handle the question 😛
this is 6 target 60 secs
10 target 60 secs
cobalt gyro
3x eb?
lost sentinel
what kinda base crit you got?
primal gazelle
35% before food
lost sentinel
I'm only at 28 atm
I do have 3 unstable flames traits, plus harlan's loaded dice tho
and wep enchant of course
definitely need more crit though
doesn't help lagging in boralus dummy area a lot heh
ok, 30% with gemslot changes
primal gazelle
sadly i dont think eb is usable on tyrannical
the ST is literally pathetic
embarrassing almost
strange python
Tol?
primal gazelle
fat damage on 1st and 2nd boss yes
strange python
Have u even tested it?
primal gazelle
yes ive completed a 15 tol this week
strange python
with 3 eB?
strange python
naaa not really
primal gazelle
esp if you plan to do skips at the end, you would pull the entire beginning of crocs and crabs
uhh ya lol
thats like 4-5 packs at once
1st and 2nd boss is add heavy
strange python
You're talking about the 1st packs b4 the 1st boss
After that you're not pulling big packs
strange python
lmao no
primal gazelle
- alot of neutrals
lost sentinel
trying underrot heh, some big pulls with teeming
strange python
Underrot with eB?
primal gazelle
@strange python whats your highest completed tol
cobalt gyro
i mean the cannons scale now
idk if those old routes are worth
you can mass pull that whole section
scenic vessel
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
lost sentinel
meh, underrot with EB was weak lol
maybe it was me though, first time trying that MA/eb stuff
the pulls weren't big enough
too many 1-3 packs
I did less dmg then what I assumed was a subt/ss rogue on the same run, didn't actually look at his gear/talents though
lost sentinel
looked at logs, EB was useful only on like 5 pulls, but they weren't pulling in a way to maximize my build anyway... I should test more
ruby idol
MA is a trap
primal gazelle
does anyone remember on the first week of heroic uldir release, did they cap m+7-10 rewards to 365 instead of 370?
tardy hearth
I’d save yourself the trouble and just run 3 SS. I don’t see pugs being nice and doing pulls based around a rogue
nimble tartan
Its not worth at all right now for eb
U lose too much st
When the double ring comes out
And u can get triple ss triple eb then we talkin
civic palm
Meebee
tardy hearth
Sounds too good to be true XD
primal gazelle
or meme hard with 3x eb and 3x dd
fading cipher
find triple EB kinda sucks, have 2x375 & 1 x 360, prefer 2x375+ 1 SS.
wide bolt
primal gazelle
ct
coral brook
!m+
prisma monolithBOT
Use the fight style Dungeon Slice (Beta) for a M+ simulation on Raidbots.
cunning urchin
anyone know what pvp talens to go now?
neon thunder
shrewd vine
So all of my sims for ST and Cleave say to gem/enchant for Crit, but icyveins says to load up on haste. Am i missing something?
marble hemlock
statweights can change depending on gear/azerite traits/talents etc.
the sim takes all of those into account to give you as accurate a result as possible, whereas the guide is a general guideline for people who are just starting to get into the spec
for most people haste is the best secondary stat
shrewd vine
oh ok ty
marble hemlock
CT
if you have the luxury of owning multiple azerite pieces, you generally only play EB in keys with a lot of trash where you pull big, like freehold or motherlode. in those you wanna play CT in combination with EP
if you "have" to run EB in dungeons like atal or even kingsrest aswell, id opt for poison bomb instead
jovial fractal
pastel wasp
just ran a siege
with EB/PB
overall EB didnt do that much
think ill go back to 3 SS
15*
pastel wasp
lol
lone junco
my guild has small peen and the healer couldnt handle more than 4-5 mobs.
so EB mad me sad.
1 time we had about 10mobs on accident, and i was a monster.
pastel wasp
we had big pulls
my FOK is no.1 overall
cos of EB
but EB itself didnt do that much
lone junco
sure
yeah, but eb has the fokker
the HB tho popped for 25k ST hit on bosses.
made the open weird
lone junco
yeah. m r m g vanish Env FOK mut.
super wonky
the aoe was fokfokfok r g exang
going in the fucking bin.
3ss 3scent till i die
8 rupture vanish GGG
lone junco
my group is a bitch. no giga pulls here.
pastel wasp
with 7-8 pack pulls
lone junco
so the 2t pulls fucking killed me
I protested by sitting in stealth
whereas with ss, you ggg
marble hemlock
siege is a really bad EB dungeon
lots of small trash that dies instantly, and then youre left with 1-3 highhealth mobs, which is horrible for EB
how much crit are you running skor?
EB scales insanely well with crit
marble hemlock
mh yeah, that might be the reason
ive had pulls in freehold with 10 mobs where fok was 15%, eb20%
but im running 35% crit baseline, spyglass and 3x unstable flames
so getting more crit would prop your EB up higher in those aoe pulls for sure
lone junco
my 3fok have 3 unstable flame
pastel wasp
i dont have spyglass 😦
marble hemlock
unluck
lone junco
yeah. 27% as well.
pastel wasp
are u running CT with EB?
lone junco
nbd. no skill required to be top deeps with SS
pastel wasp
or PB
marble hemlock
yeah im playing CT
as i see it right now, id play 2EB 1SS+CT in freehold/motherlode, 2scent+1ss in stuff like underrot, and then singletarget with 2-3SS+PB in kr/temple
EB doestn have huge value when you dont do gigapulls all the time
so if you dont have many different azerite pieces and have to play EB in something like underrot as well, id play PB with it instead
ruby idol
Its important that people realize dropping below 1xSS and subterfuge is never the play
marble hemlock
oh yeah, depends on the killtimes obviously
if stuff dies too quickly, 3xSS is usually the way to go
marble hemlock
and then pop in EB for the bigpull dungeons like freehold/motherlode
ruby idol
^
lone junco
yeah. freehold was the one i just did. was the saddest of sads
marble hemlock
EB only pulls ahead significantly when you can spam it, disregarding your CP/dot uptimes because you have enough ruptures already
that usually doesnt happen until ~15-20sec into the pull, so if the mobs are dead by then or close to dying, EB isnt that amazing
but you can easily sustain 70-90k on a 10mob pull if they live for 30sec for example
lone junco
we must be playing a different game
marble hemlock
sounds like you would be able to push higher keys if you wanted to tho
pastel wasp
normally 1 rupture and the die
they
ya, but we just raid mostly
and do keys for weekly
its a big AOE group
primal gazelle
SS requires more ramp up time than EB does lol
marble hemlock
yeah, its hard to optimize damage when you run with 2 aoe blasters already
pastel wasp
ya
marble hemlock
no clue
lone junco
raid traits
ruby idol
They are in thw dungeon journal
lone junco
M+ i feely that 3ss+3scent will be nice
ruby idol
In the game
pastel wasp
oh
lone junco
but I dont see a double ST other than DD/Twist. but thats lame
marble hemlock
dunno
lone junco
and neither of them benefit from the haste stack
primal gazelle
you will easily get 3 SS from raids i think
marble hemlock
raid has a bunch of council fights
scent might actually be pretty damn good
other than that, 3DD 1TTK 1SS +X
something llike that
thorn fjord
im running 2 DD 1 Archive for both m+ and raid i dont have anything good with ss
civic palm
Just remember how much fucking AGI SoBx3 is in relation to your AGI and plan accordingly.
nimble tartan
Really noobe i feel like rogue has some of the best synergy
spice surge
I mean, there is no one trait that makes another trait better for assa, which is what i assume he means by synergy
Whereas for example outlaw. If you have deadshot then ace will get better because you're using bte anyway (and vice versa)
vapid moth
I'm all for being top dps. But the fact that it seems like the traits seem like they provide no synergy is good imo. It means we arent stuck doing one build for eternity and it provides more options for min-maxing
It also means blizz did kinda hit the goal for azerite traits. Slightly different gameplay without being overbearing. At least for sin aoe (st still has almost no differences)
primal gazelle
juicy double pulls in FH
drifting elbow
on what minimum mob amount that new aoe trait is good at? 
coarse knot
If it’s less then like 4 mobs it’s very useless
I’d say like 6+ is wheee it’s good I don’t use it but that’s what I assume
sweet flame
4-5 targets is definitely where it starts to feel good
anything above that and it's very noticeable, second or third highest damage source
sacred ore
guys what pvp talents I should go for?
sweet flame
I used it on an ML this week and could hit 50, 60, 70k even on some pulls
and my pieces/stats aren't at all optimized
2x echoing blades, 1x SS
shy drum
is archive of titans needed for m+?
marble hemlock
archive is a good allrounder
easier to acquire than SS, which also fits that role, but for pure aoe theres better traits out there
which are also hard to get at high ilvls
thats why you oftentimes see people run archive, since its usually preferable to run archive at 390 than, say, ss at 355 or scent at 375
shy drum
what trinkets do you guys recommend
winter moss
i run dice + gale callers/ spyglass
marble hemlock
any of those 4 (dont play 2 on-use trinkets at the same time tho)
spyglass is pretty much bis for m+
shy drum
ive got a 370 dice, 375 dead-eye, 380 lions guile,
winter moss
^tru
spice surge
For absolute Bis setup on ST (including overwhelming power) you only need to buy 1 azerite item for assa, 0 if you're fine with heed/gutripper instead of op
Whereas outlaw only has one such piece
winter moss
dunno gutripper is sick aswell
spice surge
And it also has some pieces with SS/scent and SS/eb
winter moss
heed is good for m+ also
if you get every single azerite piece from the raid you have enough for the rest of the addon
spice surge
Also since theres so many from the raid, getting residium to buy good pieces for other speccs will be fairly ez
marble hemlock
its mainly just the fact that theres 9 different azerite pieces, 3 per slot, just from raid
spice surge
Not only that seli, for example outlaw has only 1 with ace+ds
winter moss
AW YIS
marble hemlock
so its gonna be fairly easy to get decent pieces just through raiding
yeah
some specs have been shafted
winter moss
synergy max
marble hemlock
but thats more of an issue with trait balancing
robust spire
Guys, there is no haste cap, right? Only exist value weighted like simc calculation. That means sometimes higher haste is good for raiding not m+.
winter moss
pretty much
marble hemlock
theoretically, theres a point where you have so much haste, that you generate more energy than you can spend even on singletarget
practically, you do not hit that point
robust spire
Because it affects to like dot dameage
civic palm
Which OTL piece has ace + deadshot?
winter moss
someone linked a google doc before with every rogue piece
spice surge
Oh wait you're right
civic palm
Yeah I did, probably, but there's no Tier 1 DS/Ace + Tier 2 DS/Ace.
spice surge
mb there is 0 pieces with it
winter moss
give links pls mizzle
spice surge
Yeah just a lot of pieces with DS/ace in the outer row
civic palm
winter moss
thank you kind sir
spice surge
Pvp also got a lot more pieces in season 2, 4 instead of 2
But that requires you to pvp to 2.1k and get lucky though
civic palm
Nice.
robust spire
@marble hemlock yeah, right thks
hazy iron
honestly not feeling Nothing Personal despite it simming well for me
vestal wren
oh the new raid looks good for sin, the first fights offer good traits
stable pine
Tried running 2xEB and SS - meh doesn’t feel right
royal lantern
and why...?
vestal wren
well EB offers burst aoe and wants MA talent, its likely that either the dungeon, the tanking strategie or the talent switch did not fit his expectation
royal lantern
well,i mean you dont need MA for EB, it gets more value for 3sec, but thats it?
why isnt MA 100%crit by the way
i love it that im somewhat able too still only do 1 crit with 76%crit, instead of just making the talent 100%
spice surge
I mean it does have higher burst aoe if you're using MA, but ma isnt mandatory for it to be useful
vestal wren
yes but i dont see a point into picking EB without it
runic basin
gear looks gut but the raid isn't good for meele dps 😛
vestal wren
given you want to increse your burst aoe if you take it over ss
royal lantern
a raid that isnt good for melee dps?
i act suprised now after uldir´´take 1 dh 1 warrior and bench every single other melee dps for afflocks!´´
runic basin
🤖
spice surge
Idk why people are saying the new raid is melee unfriendly, from what i've seen its less unfriendly than uldir
vestal wren
well raid design was always pro ranged
spice surge
Which, to be fair, was very melee unfriendly
vestal wren
blizz even stated that in a blue post at a time
spice surge
Just because a fight has mechanics that make you go out of melee for a couple of seconds doesnt make it melee unfriendly
vestal wren
melee suffer from downtimes that ranged dps do not, so if a ranged dps can output equal dps reguardless of uptime (so overall more dps due to lower downtime) the melee is useless unless you need him for a specific mechanic
royal lantern
its hard too make a raid that is more melee unfriendly than uldir tbh
i mean
look at fking fetid
runic basin
u'r right @royal lantern - 1x warri, 1x DH for buffs...and inv sub for zul (in progress times...)
vestal wren
fetid as ranged is not any bad
royal lantern
i mean pre-nerf fetid ofc
ruby idol
MA is a trap, i repeat, MA is a trap! 1-2 EB can be the play depending on dungeon but you always run at least 1 SS + Subt.
vestal wren
just watch a mage pov f.ex. standing in the same spot casting spells 24/7
ruby idol
MA is a trap!
royal lantern
after the egg hp nerf he is a joke
spice surge
But yeah, new raid has more things where you go out of range of the boss, compared to uldir where you couldnt stack
vestal wren
🎉 high parse
robust spire
Sorry for other topic. I changed guild recently. When it is updated in wcl?
vestal wren
you can go to your profile and hit update
robust spire
Yeah, i did. But character info update is ok. Guild name no change.
I do not know why
robust spire
Ah, okay thnks
odd wing
Anyone have a weakaura for deadly poison that doens't show when im playing sub/outlaw?
solid nova
You can change the trigger within the WA to spec specific
vestal wren
^ yes just change it to require asssassination its 2 clicks away
chrome cedar
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
runic basin
i think assa will be very strong with ne next raid. but y...not the best for the mechanics in this raid i think.
little crow
think i hit the sweet spot 
little crow
21% crit 15%haste 39%mastery 2%vers
brisk forge
To low haste for my taste 😁
signal summit
How much u sim
coarse knot
Yeah that haste seems really low unless that’s for m+
signal summit
Is Whats more intressting imo
high siren
brisk forge
Might have low ilvl aswell
royal lantern
meh, im at 15%haste too
little crow
yea its without any buffs, i can check in a sec how much it simmd but wasnt that much
was simming my rogue alt and wishd i had weights like that on my main xd
patent topaz
Sub 1% wipes on ghuun now, gonna die on wednesday, has to
coarse knot
Get em grizzled then scream like hell when he dies
Then do it all over again the next week
royal lantern
nah
when you kill ghuun you wipe on mother 5x or shit like that next week
or you need 3hours for zul cus everyone wants too pad for logs now
patent topaz
Wed is last raid until next year
Our warrior died at the start of p3, would have killed him otherwise
quick ice
@royal lantern are you in my guild? both of those happened the week after ghuun for us
royal lantern
i gurantee you that this stuff happens too every guild that re-clears after ghuun lol
mostly because most people dont give a fuck after CE anymore
quick ice
I mean, some of us barely gae a fuck before 😃
spice surge
A lot of guilds dont even bother to reclear g'huun
quick ice
pretty sure some of the people in my guild who missed 1st kill would bail if we didn't get them CE
spice surge
Well yeah, you reclear for CE, but outside of that
maybe not a lot anymore after the nerfs
marble hemlock
not like ghuun drops any particularly good loot
spice surge
Nor a mount
marble hemlock
no mount = no incentive for most guilds to reclear unless they need the azerite
boosting helps with that
spice surge
Also spending like 10 minutes preparing your spreadsheets before actually attempting to kill the boss is yikes
patent topaz
0.7%, if we dont kill its going to haunt my dreams
marble hemlock
we usually have 1 or 2 buyers in that pay for bosses or CE
and if people fuck up a particular boss, they lose their cut for that boss, or if its a regular thing, they lose their cut for the entire run
keeps people in line
patent topaz
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/12A3nKmcybxCFpGv#fight=57&type=damage-done best try, 4 people died to one growth wave
marble hemlock
yikes
but thats normal for progress
melee who arent in meleerange trying to get close and "risk" it etc.
when really all you need in that phase is to stay alive
we had 200k penalty if you died to shrooms after ~15 p3 wipes
so people just played safe, stayed alive, boss was dead 3 tries later
quick ice
over 1/2 my guild would be broke from that
patent topaz
3 of them were warlocks actually 😄 our warrior seems to die early often, maybe because he is a tauren
marble hemlock
people being broke usually helps
since it really makes them consider to just not fuck it up
quick ice
not just because of them dying, but because that's more gold than a lot of them have
patent topaz
somehow im topping damage in p3 a lot of the time
spice surge
Being alive does more damage than being dead
jaunty arrow
Until u are undead 🤔
patent topaz
at least next raid is on wednesday so people should still remember how to do stuff
brisk forge
Dont count on that xD
fast nacelle
@vestal wren why do you "need" MA for EB
vestal wren
you dont need it
tepid night
Dont be too sure about that, next id will be 4th or 5th time we lock ghuun.
vast forum
They obviously synnergise well
vestal wren
you are maybe right
tepid night
1-2% wipes everywhere
vestal wren
i think in the current situation with 3 traits aviable using EB without Ma might be not worth it
patent topaz
if they nerfed ghuuns hp by a few % he would die so hard
fast nacelle
i think subterfuge + 1 ss will always be core (especially since new pieces have ss on mass)
2 EB 1 SS is good for big packs like in freeholdt for example
also with kiting becoming more and more a thing EB will be quite decent on bigger pulls but we'll see
but i dont like EB that much
vestal wren
i think its good if you need burst aoe
fast nacelle
yeah for raw dmg but you lose also good amount of ST on bosses
vestal wren
else, why not pick ss it just outdoes all other traits overall
fast nacelle
i mean OL would prob do at least as fine on AOE
and more ST than 1 SS Assa
not sure though - idk.
i dont play much atm... but i think people are distracted by overall dmg and dont notice how they fall behind on bosses
(which is kinda like outlaw... you can do 120k dps on a pull but with "bad rng" fall a bit behind on bosses)
vestal wren
ppl always go for overall, thats one issue of the metric
fast nacelle
yeah but if you go for overall you could play outlaw anyway
vestal wren
understanding that the game is not always about you doing the most overall damage and logs is sth fundamentally lacking when i talk to ppl
fast nacelle
2x EB 1x SS feels like sub with worse ST (and maybe a bit higher aoe burst) or outlaw with worse ST
but i ll wait for double traits b4 i m trying to find anything cool
vestal wren
i know ppl who just whipe the raid if they get targeted by mechanics that would screw their logs
and thats in not cutting edge guilds
with 6 traits going 3x ss, 2x eb 1x np maybe not sure yet
fast nacelle
2x eb feels good ye - i feel like 1x eb is gaga
vestal wren
6 traits will open up more varity and mixing traits seems more interessting
fast nacelle
3x ss 2x eb looks like overall sick balance between cleave burst and sustained aoe
and good st
vestal wren
the raid pieces also look suprisingly good for sin
fast nacelle
scent of blood seems nice too but idk seems like fully abusing EB and using scent maybe could "counter" each other
ye
royal lantern
you....know that you still need too use your combo points and pump out some bleeds for energy right?
fast nacelle
with 4-5 rup you can start spam foking
royal lantern
and how much agility do you get with 4-5 rup and 1x scent?
vestal wren
for raid i assume you go dd instead of EB
fast nacelle
yea talking about m+
royal lantern
yeha, raid i try too get 1xSS for the smoth opening, then stack DD
fast nacelle
there are 2 pieces with SS and DD iirc
spice surge
And pieces with DD/NP
royal lantern
yeha, good trait choice this tier
spice surge
and pieces with SS+EB/SoB
royal lantern
1xss 3xdd 2xnp for singletarget should be possible
spice surge
God trait choice this tier rather
spice surge
And outlaw doesnt have a single ace+ds piece from raid 😄 😄
vestal wren
i think sin has rly great pices
fast nacelle
what about sub
vestal wren
outlaw/sub has decent ones but sin seems overall better
fast nacelle
need to check
dh has sick traits aswell
boomies too
i m looking forward for the balancing of double traits
like how specs change in power
assa seems already go to spec lol
(not like its smth new)
vestal wren
there is for example only 1 pice with inev + tfd
royal lantern
some stuff will be broken
fast nacelle
boomies seem bonkers
vestal wren
sub has only those 2 top tier traits
fast nacelle
fell only inev and tfd, no?
vestal wren
for outlaw, you dont even have a pice with ds + ace
fast nacelle
idk how far behind bits is
spice surge
First piece of bits is good
fast nacelle
is the nb trait for sub fixed?
how good is it - kinda sad that sub still has no aoe trait
tfd is not bad but only cause of the haste part so you can run NS
cp is wasted
fast nacelle
(however we are better now on 3 targets for first finisher cause it gives enough cps for sstorm - finisher)
meh
vestal wren
sub still has no good aoe trait
spice surge
Perforate will probably be used as well, if it lines up well with the fight
royal lantern
cant wait too never get the helmet from the 1st boss anyway
vestal wren
that roots in sub's new design strategie that means you need to dot everything, so overall a more effort sin with lower return
royal lantern
cus fuck my luck
vestal wren
EB might have been a good sub trait given it would have synergysed well with the damage up on storm for dance
royal lantern
ssshhh...cant give sub good stuff
vestal wren
giving it to sin just nails the coffin for sub even more
royal lantern
or they remove feint or something like that from it lol
fast nacelle
sub could implement a new trait - impatient customer: reduces the CD of SecTec and Shuriken Tornado by 0.5s per CP spent
vestal wren
to op
fast nacelle
obviously
vestal wren
secret's biggest issue in m+ is the slapped on cdr
this is mainly due to not constant big group sizes, so planing around secret is a horror and can easy end up using it wrong
fast nacelle
but the overall dmg didnt change much - and sub is still viable
oh wonder all the "sub is dead i unsub" dudes were wrong.. what a surprise
vestal wren
sub got a slight buff for st
given how overtuned tfd is atm
to take it into perspective it outdoes a full stacked archive
royal lantern
aaaaaaaaand the nerf is comming
night vale
anyone got an in depth assasination guide, the one in the pins is good but wanted to know if there was anything else out there?
Maybe that covers energy management and stuff in more detail?
fast nacelle
i have a feeling that they wont change tfd - bc they would need to work on other things as compensation
vestal wren
so ye, sub is not dead with a overtuned tfd
royal lantern
poor sub rogues cant catch a break
vestal wren
without it will still be playable but less reason to take it
with it, you can take it on high uptime fights bc. it does compatitive damage
dfa shd clipping was not bad overall, the issue was it was kind in conflict with encouter design
patent topaz
I liked dfa except when you jumped into aoe and died
vestal wren
the main issue was that you where locked into it when you used dfa, that was one of the big reasons you did prefere to not play it (a lot of boss mechanics did punish you or your whole raid for it)
i like that sin is not 100% pb procs anymore, that change was nice 👍
patent topaz
so much better for progress as well, allows for more downtime to do mechanics / play safer
royal lantern
holy shit, legion PB was such a bullshit mechanic
try too explain your raidleader why the other rogue does 15%more dmg on some pulls, and he doesnt belive that it is rng on a overtuned proc
quick ice
try to not cry when you wipe at 1% with 25% PB damage
fast nacelle
yeah assa is actualyl upgrade over legion (imo just cause of SS and CT)
however KB additionally would be cool but not rly needed /significant
royal lantern
yeha, Kingsbane would be cool, but not really a lost
you used it like toxicblade anyway, get your bleeds up, pump out as many envenoms as possible
fast nacelle
it became pretty "whatever" after the removal of AP anyway
also without double dipping
so its dmg variance between good and bad usage
was small anyways
like - even if you messed it up the overall % dmg was not big enough to make a difference
prob a good thing to remove it overall
royal lantern
im more happy with CT tbh, its a good aoe finisher, but they could have replaced PB as a talent with KB imo for singletarget fights
would feel better then a passive proc, i like extra skills too use
fast nacelle
yeah i think current PB is better than legion (cause of the small variance it has now)
however its lame
kb would have been at least something active
even if it just does 5-6% overall
it would have been at least a real ST talent
royal lantern
it is not hard too be better then legion PB lol
royal lantern
´´yeha, i MAYBE have insane aoe or no real aoe at all beside multidotting, pray too rngesus man´´
fast nacelle
would also be more meaningful when to use CT or PB
if we would have smth like KB
with PB its whatever
you can use it in kings rest - yeah
royal lantern
would probably still be the same thing
fast nacelle
but even with CT its like w/e
jade chasm
Is there breakpoint in number of targets where CT beats out Poison Bomb?
fast nacelle
nah i think with a real ST talent
jade chasm
Or just consistancy?
fast nacelle
you d use it more often in some dungeons
royal lantern
you only use CT when stuff is alive for a decent time
fast nacelle
its not about the time but the targets
you dont need CT for long fights
we are fine with using ruptures for sustained fights
its all about how many targets mostly
jade chasm
Gotcha, thanks
olive moth
Evenin, I've got 375 twist the knife, or 375 azerite goggles. What's the dealio for M+?
marble hemlock
goggles
dreamy fiber
olive moth
eb sorry?
olive moth
ah gotcha
strange python
vestal wren
!sims
prisma monolithBOT
BfA Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html
lament dove
does the herodamage chart for m+ take into consideration multiple applications of scent of blood?
lone junco
if it is using the dungeon slice sim, there is a boss and small trash, and big trash.
it ruptures per the apl.
so yes
lament dove
thanks
acoustic quartz
Is anyone doing assassination for zul or it's sub still the way to go
wide delta
Sub fam
acoustic quartz
Lol
ocean root
hey guys. Can you please tell me if its ok the following gear for raids (in general except zul) and if yes if its the right one for ghuun progress 😃
solid nova
@ocean root Simming your stat weights, you can definitely drop your crit for haste and your mastery gems/enchant
Crit sims lowest for you, not sure why you're gemming it
Unless you're on some AoE hype 🤷🏼
ocean root
@solid nova i did it 2 weeks ago cuz that what top gear told me to do, but yeah i do m+ with sin too
patent topaz
I like my double archive, ss for ghuun
ocean root
yeah but for me its kind of difficult cuz i dont have 385 azerite pieces. Only 1 with dd
so if i need ss and archive i will play with 375 pieces only
winter gale
My friend tells me some top m+ assass are playing with 4% haste?
Is that correct?
Anyone?
brisk forge
Depends on sims
winter gale
Since bleeds regen energy
solid nova
4% isnt a target by any means if thats what you're asking
brisk forge
But 4% sux tho
winter gale
Im asking is that something logical?
past roost
#]
brisk forge
Around 8 is sweet IMO
winter gale
I cant belive that
wary ice
I try and keep 10ish
winter gale
Yes,8,9,10,11,12 Is ok
wary ice
cause it feelycrafts best for me
but haste is big dong for aoe
not a whole lot of reason for it in m+
winter gale
Yes, ofc.
Its ok for me, i just came to ask since for assa 4% sounds like total shit
Nothing but that.
I would say 10,12%
Nothing less
solid nova
Haste loses value on AoE, it could just be a really heavy aoe set for some random reason.
Its by no means a value to aim for
wary ice
Maybe like Teeming Fort in freehold
IF there was ever a week to ignore st its this one
wait its teusday
If there was ever a week to ignore ST its last one.
cobalt gyro
if peopel are at like 4% haste that just means they have very little on gear
but they're probably at 5-6% just from the neck, so
ruby idol
Anything above 10% is usually wasteful outside of like KR and Temple, but thats not like a set in stone thing. Its super relative nased on affixes and dungeons. titanforging also exists so you dont always pick and choose which stats are high for your bis set of gear
signal summit
I heard Nothing personal can crit, do I use MA different if i run NP? So i get the NP in the MA window?
ruby idol
The damage of it is far too undertuned to play around it imo
signal summit
it still sims better than 1 dd so
ruby idol
Your either sacrificing bleed uptime in the opener, or a MA envenom if you play around NP is what im saying
hardy anchor
Is anyone still running Archive in M+?
cobalt gyro
I am because i'm missing a 3rd SS piece
hardy anchor
Gonna try Archive+SS+Echoing here
undone verge
ew echoing
thick mulch
Quick question, for Vendetta on CD do i ever wait for vanish with it so i can get the empowered garrotes out of it, or do i just use Vendetta on CD every time?
normal spear
delay 2nd vendetta to line it up with vanish
dense delta
Let's say we pull 4-5 mobs in m+ and all will live around 30s - on how many mobs would i apply bleeds?
undone verge
i wish my mobs would last 30s
dense delta
Yeah....let's say 20s
undone verge
i'd like to know others opinions, i'm only 365 ilvl and i run with DHs so my aoe looks like shit
but i usually garrote 4 and rupture 4, if i can
winter gale
I dont rupture 4
No time for envenoms then
I garote 3 to 4 then ct out of those combos
winter gale
Thne fok to rupture 2,3 targets, depending on the trash quantity
whole cradle
will 3 nothing personals be the best single target burst traits
winter gale
Then enveom from fok
wary ice
I'd open that pull as g-g-g->CT->complain about bitch pulls while foking 3 ruptures out -> envenom spam down priority
4th garrote is pretty eh, no boosted by sub / ss
you're also capping on cp and burning energy into it
dense delta
so six dots would be like the "ideal" amount of dots for nice energy regen without wasting?
winter gale
Y
wary ice
Like # of rutputres that go out is so dependant on the health pool of your pull that its really hard to just hand out a number
winter gale
- bullfango
wary ice
IE: 2nd pull in Shrine, the 2 casters surrounded by blobs. Its an extreme exmaple, but I would never put out more than the 2 ruptures
a less DUH example would be the pull before the 1st boss room in SEige
where its like a 6-7 mob pull, but 3 arent elite
so rupturing them is wasted CP generally
winter gale
Use them just for foking? 😂
wary ice
yeah sure
Envnom every other global on targets that dont die within an eyebeam seems better than spending time spreading bleeds
honest basin
The thing is Rupturing them if they die fast allow you to regain full energy
winter gale
And do I make a huge mistake by playing TB and CT?
wary ice
TB in m+ is a mistake in itself imo
winter gale
I do 17-20k overall on 13,14,15 dungs
wary ice
Your gear is generally so AoE centric that not having exsanguinates energy regen on bosses hurts imo
refering back to our haste discussion earlier this morning
winter gale
Yes
wary ice
re: regaining full energy its less useful than it sounds
Like if you're energy starved on your opener / in AoE in general, you're messing something up
naemly probably mutilating
honest basin
I'd say it depends on how much of your energy bar you can dump, if you can spam your spells so much that you are below 50, getting a +120 for 4-5 cp when you make 4 per gcd isn't too bad
wary ice
Sure; but again, my point is that you shouldnt strive for a specific number of ruptures
it depends on the pull and how its being done
honest basin
Yes, of course
wary ice
Sometimes i like to refresha 5er on a dying target if the last mob in the pull is near full cause god knows ima need that muta energy
thin ingot
Guys what 110 talent are we taking for M+?
im using 2 EB and 1 dagger in the back btw
undone verge
has assassination always been so uhh.. varying? everyone has different ways to do it.
outlaw is like "get crit/vers, swing bat"
wary ice
but i think the fan of knives one will probs be best for you
noble sierra
Why wouldn't you just hold you energy bull?
wary ice
i like to press my buttons :^) holding is probably smarter though
wary ice
I'd def sim talents; my guess is MA + whatever the fan of knives 100 talent is
that'll probably be best for you
spark oyster
Hidden blade is shit even with 2 EB
spark oyster
It gives way more sustained aoe
You will rarely get full hidden blades stacks in m+ anyway
wary ice
CT + MA felt really meh to me but i also only tried it for like a single dungeon so i probably wasnt playing it right
wary ice
I'd argue that
2xEB + 0ss; my hunch is MA will edge it out by like
4% or so
It super depends on his gear so its sorta a moot discussion
wary ice
fair
I'm stuck in the ancient ways of thought about EB from last tuesday where it was lol build around it nerd
rana quick sim on myself MA > Sub w/2xEB 0ss is ~a 1% increase
for those that want some finality to this exciting discussion
3rd talent was SoB cause i was too lazy to change it
undone verge
i feel like attempting to do really good aoe in m+ as sin is a failure. just my opinion though.
flint swift
If there’s a way to do great aoe as sin I’m definitely not doing it right.
I do decent aoe but it’s not great
ocean sparrow
I do way better on 4-6 mobs, and feel like I really struggle on bosses because of my energy...and then I read I shouldnt be playing TB..so going to try Exsang. Tonight
undone verge
i think the goal with sin is to burn the targets as fast as possible, ie boss fight. not to try to out aoe fel rush, eye beam, blade dance.
queen fjord
Hello lads
Dungeon slice stat weights says haste. even tough im at 15% haste. Should i trust it or just ignore cos its beta?
flint swift
I like exsang playstyle better but all my high ilvl azerite is SS so I don’t really have a choice lol
queen fjord
Yeah so screw that
undone verge
you don't like exsang with ss?
flint swift
No I love it
primal gazelle
my choices for this week is 1 SS, 2 Scents or 2 EB 1 DD, gonna test the 2 eb 1 dd combo to see if its even worth
flint swift
I’m just saying that even if I wanted to run TB it wouldn’t make sense because all my azerite is ss
primal gazelle
ideally DD > SS on ST
undone verge
ah i see
primal gazelle
2 eb > 2 scents on aoe
wary ice
I still think SS is better
You're gettinga t least 3 garrotes from stealth over a tyranical boss fight
2 during Vendetta windwos
undone verge
without garrote stealth the healer would out dps you
primal gazelle
ill find out tonight when i test it
wary ice
if 1xDD is the difference between the healer outdpsing u i tihnk u got other problems
primal gazelle
just wanna try a new play style than the cookie cutter SS garrote play
ebon garden
Is it worth replacing 1 SS with 1 EB as long as they are same ilvl? i have 3 SS pieces currently
undone verge
garrote stealth, not ss
wary ice
@ebon garden
winter gale
No more CT?
primal gazelle
ideally the pulls this week will be even bigger since the mobs are weaker, which makes EB shine, but your ST dmg will be shit, which im trying to offset by having 1 DD
primal gazelle
alot of the high io rogue streamers use 1 ss 2 eb with standard spes
wary ice
^
primal gazelle
but they do 20+ keys thats optimized for both boss and dungeon dmg
primal gazelle
i personally dont wanna run any EB unless im going MA
winter gale
I can still play 1x archieve 2x SS?
primal gazelle
ya thats fine
winter gale
And I should definitely stop playing TB + CT?
heavy trail
Does having EB change anything to AoE-Rotation in m+?
Currently running 1 archive, 1 ss, 1 eb
wary ice
If you're using SS I'd highly suggest giving exsanguinate a try
wary ice
check the pins for that sick optimal usage guide
wary ice
The short and long is on cooldown, make sure your bleeds are refreshed before doing so
primal gazelle
did anyone run 3x eb last night and could post your dmg meter break downs?
wary ice
ur gunna do sick boss damage, at least
strange python
Only refresh rupture before exsang if its less than 20 seconds, and garrote in pandemic
wary ice
^ thats it
winter gale
And last one from me and before it huge thanks for being patient and responding to all my questions 😃
Poison Bomb is now 4%, use it over CT?
wary ice
I have no idea what that means
strange python
CT works better with big pulls
wary ice
But CT shines when your tank pulls fat
winter gale
So still the same, y
wary ice
If ur using Dungeon slice i think the pulls in it are a little small for cT to do well
if you're pugging everything Just use PB
if you know how your tank wants to pull (and its fat) go CT
wary ice
I personally really like CT in general and mostly just convince my tanks to pull more to compensate for it
On some dungeons thats not a possibility
I think the concesnsus is on KR and temple, take PB always
I also generally take PB on tol
old lagoon
All 385 pieces would you guys play 2x NP, 1x EB or 2x SS 1x EB, or 2x EB, 1x SS this week?
wary ice
2ss1eb personally
wary ice
maaaybe 2eb 1ss if your comp is like a bunch of classes that cant do both AoE and ST damage like warlock
strange python
EB will suck if your pulls arent big
wary ice
If ur pulls arent big are you even m+?
primal gazelle
^
candid mica
even if eb isn't ideal, he doesn't have anything better to take
primal gazelle
every pull should be a double or triple pull or im leaving mid-dungeon
old lagoon
We normally play BM Sin Demo Frost. 3 of those 4
strange python
I mean good luck telling people to run 2xss and 1eb
When that shit sucks on KR
ToS
primal gazelle
should be common sense to not run it there
strange python
Underrot as well
wary ice
i ahvent done underrot sice the detection mobs were added
old lagoon
EB bad in KR but it’s fun on the blob room
primal gazelle
double pulls also possible in KR, the first boss room can be done in 2 pulls as opposed to 4
old lagoon
If you man mode it
primal gazelle
the blob room can be done in 1 pull, excluding the giants
strange python
People don't run CT in KR
wary ice
I think if you pull the giants to the same side they only entomb on that side
primal gazelle
only plebs do 1 pull at a time in KR
old lagoon
If you pull both it glitches and leaves the second stuck until next entomb cast
candid mica
2x ss 1x eb is the best he has for every dung this week
strange python
I bet he has archive to work with
old lagoon
I don’t. Not until the 26th to restore my piece 😂
candid mica
strange python
I mean he could've just not listed
Relax buddy
Not even a 370 archive?
Blightborne?
Catalyst?
old lagoon
Blightborne is on my eb piece I think
strange python
Could use that instead then
old lagoon
Ye. Is possible. Was really just curious on SS vs NP for tyrannical weeks since it then lets you play MA to get the most from EB