assassination

[random edge]

getting mixed reviews

[lone junco]

most likely 3ss. I sim 4t20 6t40 (no raid buffs) and 1t2min with lust. If you pull packs of 8-10 often, ss starts to drop off.

[random edge]

thanks

[molten moon]

I've seen 2 ss and 1 archive be strong if you can stay alive and keep your stacks up

[fierce violet]

26% of haste, but it still sims better than agility, is it normal?

[molten moon]

hard to sim that in a M+ environment, since you cant adjust your stack for a 40-60 second sim

[ripe nimbus]

U drop the turnip toy before u start the M+ and get max stacks and ur pretty much at max stacks the entire dungeon.

[ionic charm]

wait does that actually work? because I reeeeeaaaaalllly don't want to have to do that for every key

[proper zealot]

It works.

[waxen cobalt]

What is that turnip trick? 😮

[slate jacinth]

Any tips for mythic Vectis? Is my first time here.

[proper zealot]

@waxen cobalt It's just about getting your Archive stacks to 20 before the Mythic+ keystone starts, and you do this by being in combat either through killing mobs at the beginning of the dungeon (think The MOTHERLODE!!) or by using something like the Turnip Punching Bag toy.

[waxen cobalt]

So using the turnip before activating the key locks you at 20 stacks? Geez, thanks, thats gonna make life easier lol

[spice surge]

No it doesnt lock you at 20 stacks

But it makes you have 20 stacks when the key starts

[strange python]

low key broken

[spice surge]

Or when you put the key in, so like 17 or 18 when you actually start fighting

[dense quest]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[waxen cobalt]

ah, so it makes the first pull faster

gotcha

[radiant carbon]

basically u start fully stacked and have the chance to stay at 20 stacks the more u kill as u progress through the m+ run.

[mystic marten]

Are there any good guides per fight for heroic/mythic?

I feel like a lot of my parses are coming down to not knowing when to use cooldowns

(other than stalking warcraft logs, of course)

[pallid spruce]

which one you would pref Dooms Wake Or Dread Gladiator's Medallion ?

[strange python]

Prefer for?

[pallid spruce]

for raiding ?

mythic +

[wheat zealot]

Sim

Yo

Self

[strange python]

Depends on ilvl

But yeah, sim urself

is it just me or is assa kinda bad at zul ?

[fleet whale]

I wouldn't say it's bad it's just that sub is too good

[strange python]

i gotta get into sub i guess

kinda thought its complicated

[devout glen]

anyone know if bag ilvl maintains while its inside the bank?

like applying to groups rather

[strange python]

@fleet whale would you say its easy to get into for aoe cleave

[fleet whale]

I don't think it's too complicated but you might have better luck in the sub channel, in fact there is a zul guide pinned there

[strange python]

oh thank you 😃

im pretty new here but this sub helped me out a lot already

[vital haven]

guys

why does outlaw suck so much?

[sacred yarrow]

Does it ?

[safe matrix]

👉 #outlaw #wow-general or #off-topic

[quiet spruce]

guys. which race best for rogue in alliancE? im stuck between NE and Dark iron

[safe matrix]

there are sims on herodamage in the pins

[vital haven]

but what about my freeze peach

[sacred yarrow]

Is it just for pve or also pvp?

[vital haven]

YOU CANT CENSOR ME

[quiet spruce]

both pvp (arenas) and pve (M+ and raid)

im thinkin NE, since those restealths and gar in M+ can be huge

[safe matrix]

I actually can, so take your stuff to a relevant channel @vital haven

[vital haven]

feelsbadman

[quiet spruce]

and in arenas, i can use it to stop CC and restealth

[vital haven]

night elf

shadowmeld is god racial

and godlike with subterfuge and SS

[quiet spruce]

shadowmeld doesnt work in raid boss fights right?

[spice surge]

For m+ yeah, for raids it doesnt actually do anything

Correct, it doesnt allow you to restealth during raid bosses

[safe matrix]

it allows access to stealth abilities and for whatever reason if you cast garrote from shadowmeld it gets SS

[vital haven]

ye forgot to clarify for m+

[little sparrow]

Is pooling important for TB or just case on CD ?

[lone junco]

both. ayy

[spice surge]

You can do both

[little sparrow]

sorry if it's been asked a billion times lol

[spice surge]

Cast on CD is more important though

[safe matrix]

use on CD, but plan ahead

[little sparrow]

I just had to swap to it, finally got 385 archive shoulders

[vital haven]

wait so you can take advantage of it even in raids?

[little sparrow]

thanks for the insight

[vital haven]

the NE racial i mean

[safe matrix]

it gets SS but not subt

[little sparrow]

also hi @lone junco

😃

[safe matrix]

this was found out recently

[vital haven]

rtace change here i come

[past harbor]

heyo when running Exsang do you always want to time up your vendetta with an exsang?

obviously for the opener you will, but you would want to wait an extra 15-20 seconds for it to line up again right?

[sturdy python]

As long as you arent losing a cast it's ok to hold vendetta/vanish for exsang

[safe matrix]

you delay vanish/exsang for 2:25 ish for the third exsang

[past harbor]

I know vendetta debuff lasts 20 seconds

if you cast exsang near the end of the debuff

does the 20% damage apply

or does it only apply as long as the debuff is active

[safe matrix]

it does not snapshot

[spice surge]

Only as long as the debuff is active

[safe matrix]

^

[past harbor]

sounds good thanks guys

Cast log from one of my rogues in my guild, does it matter whether or not he uses vendetta before or after the exsang?

[lost sentinel]

pretty sure with exsang u want to do G, G, R, V, E

[eager linden]

The opener on the screen makes no sense

[high wadi]

hey everyone

would anyone mind checking my logs?

[eager linden]

you can pm me

@past harbor Tell your friend to check the guide to get his opener right, but you always Exsang after Vendetta

[weary granite]

When you use vanish at approx. 20 seconds in to reapply empowered garrotes, do I then hold vendetta for 20 seconds at the 2 minute mark so i can get empowered garrotes off before I use my 2nd vendetta?

[spice surge]

it doesnt make sense, but its also not much worse

Yes @weary granite

[weary granite]

ok

[past harbor]

Yeah I linked him the guide

G->Rupt->G->vend->mut->rupt->exsang

[waxen arch]

Yo, should I really go with 2xArchive? https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jnB9ty5LQ5FZgKrnG63kUJ

wtf

[molten moon]

yes, i believe double dose / archive outclasses SS in raid

[pallid spruce]

interesting dooms wake at 370 and Dread Gladiator's Medallion at 370 , dread medallion does more DPS but bloodmallet says different

[lost sentinel]

we're talking .1-.2%, I go with what you'd like

[safe matrix]

your personal sims > the generic ones

[pallid spruce]

bloodmallet says wake does 1092 and medallion 993, sims says other wise

[wheat zealot]

Bloodmallet just gives you a general idea using a default profile

Its not set in stone. You still have to sim everything

[past harbor]

Does elaborate planning buff your garrotes after theyve already been applied?

[wheat zealot]

Elaborate planning buffs all damage

So yes

[molten moon]

this is probably a noobie question: but outside of cd windows, pooling energy is better than spamming, correct? to try and capitalize on envenom and eb?

[past harbor]

jesus

I was wondering why my garrote ticks for 1866 normally

and with vendetta/vanish/plume it goes to 6k+

[lone junco]

it used to crit for 25k with ss

[past harbor]

How can I see individual tick damage

I'm on the cast & timeline page on the logs but it just shows all the ticks combined

[wheat zealot]

@molten moon pooling is unnecessary

[buoyant ember]

When you finally get a gcb.. then realize it sims lower than your dark moon trinket...

[prime zephyr]

is leeching poison under tuned or do you need flat leech on gear to buff it?

[wheat zealot]

Leeching is meh in almost every situation

Elusiveness or cheat will be better in 99.9% of content

[prime zephyr]

yeah I'm just trying to solo world quests

and with mythic level gear it seems to be very poor

[safe matrix]

oh hey look its the 0.01% of content leeching is relevant in

world content and soloing stuff

[wheat zealot]

^

[safe matrix]

basically its the worst option if you have a competent healer

[proper zealot]

I mean, Leeching Poison still sucks in world/solo content.

[prime zephyr]

yeah thats my point

[proper zealot]

Kill things quicker or get Resounding Protection/Vampiric Speed Azerite powers. ; )

Those along with Crimson Vial should keep you topped.

[prime zephyr]

does adding more leech on your gear buff its healing?

[wheat zealot]

The damage reduction from elusiveness will probably negate more than leeching heals for. If used correctly that is

Idk that for a fact though

[prime zephyr]

It grants you 10% leech, and seems to heal for around what vial is doing in terms of hps without any leech on gear

[past harbor]

@wheat zealot wait, pooling isn't necessary? I thought it was optimal for the reasons RedWhite stated

maximize EP Muts + Envenoms

[prime zephyr]

the tool tip is so simple I'm assuming that it works in some other way

[wheat zealot]

Pooling is 100% unnecessary

It doesnt hurt if your not overcapping

But its not a gain

[past harbor]

obviously you want to have energy for the Vendetta / CD window

but outside of it I've always been pooling

[proper zealot]

If you want better open world sustain then Subtlety with Soothing Darkness might be a better option for you.

I used to like doing open world content as Subtlety, but now I'm just too lazy to switch.

[prime zephyr]

outlaw has pretty decent self heals with double vials

[proper zealot]

Yeah, I won't play Outlaw.

[past harbor]

I read in the TC channel that on the second vendetta, you want to vanish with 5cp so you can rupt from stealth and then double garrote

is that optimal/necessary or can you just vendetta -> vanish -> g->g->rupt

[strange python]

I vanish with 2/3 CP so I can Gar-Rup-Gar

[prime zephyr]

yeah double garrote will always waste a point

also sets up a nice toxic blade with the three combo points from garrote

[rocky notch]

depends if you're talking about exsang or tb

[spring iron]

Weapon enchant reccomendation?

[pallid spruce]

rolf the sims says dooms wake + dread gladiors medallion bot use items and does more dps togeder than halarns loaded dice + medallion or dife + dooms wake

wtf they share CD 20sec

[sturdy python]

Is there a big ilvl difference?

[lost sentinel]

you kinda vanish 20 seconds into a fight anyway, with ss/sub build anyway, doesn't seem bad

I'm using 2 equip trinkets atm, not thrilled with that but I haven't gotten a new GCB since 345 nor the one from king's rest

I got a 370 harlans loaded dice a week ago and this weekly cache I got a 380 version of it 🤔

[glacial grotto]

oh boy

have i made a massive error by using master poisoner over elobrate planning

[sturdy python]

IDK about massive but EP is pretty good

[glacial grotto]

I should be using EP for m+ though yeah

[pliant nest]

whats EP?

[crisp steppe]

elaborate planning

[austere scarab]

EP vs. MP for raids?

[spice surge]

EP

[austere scarab]

oh wow

I've been spec'd into MP this entire time

and no idea why

[wheat zealot]

Read guides pls

[elder gulch]

does our mastery apply to rezan's fury

[marble hemlock]

no

why would it

[elder gulch]

it does a bleed

[gloomy dew]

Finally got daggers last night, gonna be switching over from outlaw for a while I think

[elder gulch]

"...causing them to bleed for x damage over 12 seconds"

[civic palm]

Right but what does our Mastery say?

[elder gulch]

increases the damage of our poisons and bleeds

[civic palm]

Yeah they should be more specific, it's usually stated as damage from "your abilities".

Though for all we know Mastery DOES increase the damage.

[elder gulch]

hmmmmm

has anyone tested it?

[strange python]

?????

The trait doesnt scale with mastery

[willow mulch]

so ive hit a point where trait weights (bloodmallet) and sims are pointing me to not using a raid trait. (archive or laser) on any of my pieces. sims are showing a dps gain. was just under the assumption i needed a raid trait to unlock reorigination array?

sharpened blades x1 double dose x1 and dagger in the back x1

[primal gazelle]

question, does our dots snapshot the one use agi pvp trinket?

or is it dynamic

[warm zinc]

Would a 385 usurpers with scent of blood be better than 370 shoulders with suffocation for m+

[spice surge]

@primal gazelle Dynamic

@warm zinc Pretty certain no

[primal gazelle]

my feelingcraft would say no bc SS is king

[warm zinc]

yea i just wasn't sure because usurpers are pretty insane but wasn't sure if they'd be better than a 370 shrouded

the 370 has overwhelming too

[cold dragon]

@spice surge thanks to u I parsed blue on first Fetid down 😃

Edit for those interested: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/rqRDcyLVfZwnvGNH#fight=55&type=damage-done

[spice surge]

😃

[dark crag]

@willow mulch 100% do you not sim the same with and without the array stacks

We are at 9 stacks, even 6 or 7 is a huge boost

[civic palm]

Huge is an understatement really.

[dark crag]

Huge like in huge stat gain

[civic palm]

It's huger than huge though.

It's like...

huge.

[dark crag]

Humongous?

[civic palm]

Monstrous?

Outstanding?

Broken?

Exceptional.

What are we at 800?

[dark crag]

Cataclysmic

[civic palm]

That's fucking DOUBLING your stat in some cases.

[cold dragon]

675

[civic palm]

Right cap is 750.

So 600 is is gonna be more than 50% of the stat it is boosting in some cases.

Which is a tremendous amount.

[dark crag]

Doing all lfr bosses in mirrored order gives an extra life

[civic palm]

The worse gear you have the better the bonus is o _O

[spice surge]

No

Stats give more dps the more of them you have

[civic palm]

What am I going to do with an extra life?

[spice surge]

Multiplicativity and such

Or well, the % increase on stats is higher

But the actual dps increase isnt

[civic palm]

Unless you have too much of a stat due to your weapon enchant and itemization and having more of the stat is worse for you, but I do not think we have that issue with Haste specifically.

If you do not have enough Haste to get it over Crit then you might run into a problem.

[dark crag]

It might be worse but never useless like classes with breakpoints

[civic palm]

But it can't be BAD for us.

It's always good but could be better so long you don't have whack stats.

[last parrot]

hi, I have first mate spyglass and lustrous golden plumage, both of them together simming best for me. but 2x USE trinket means cooldown on the other.

should I open with the spymate or lustrous trinket?

[lone junco]

When we swap to crit stacking azerite will be really nice.

[last parrot]

lustrout 20sec combined with vendetta 20sec?

[cold dragon]

Sin just operates on a lot of energy usage. More energy = more mutilates = more finishers = more EP

[civic palm]

Crit is pretty bad for me atm.

[dark crag]

The fun begins when we enter the new raid without array

[lone junco]

It is. But I trust no one. Balances will come and go on new traits.

[civic palm]

Yep, one thing at a time.

and while this isn't BAD, Crit is not good for me at this point; https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923750073499648/507049584787324948/unknown.png

[lone junco]

But the top gear tool is really helping fish through the shit. ESP with tb/exang. Ma/subt. As iterations.

[civic palm]

Yeah.

[lone junco]

That looks like 2ss with 19% haste?

[civic palm]

and TBF those stats are so fucking close that it really doesn't matter.

DD 2xRO with 17% or so IIRC

[lone junco]

Mine flipped once I got dd. Tb shot up.

[civic palm]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923750073499648/507054550121709569/unknown.png

Yeah wtb more mastery please.

Wonder how the mastery enchant is for me noooowww

[lone junco]

I like the idea of dd. Maybe 1twist 1dd.

[civic palm]

Yeah I want 1 TtK

[lone junco]

I have it. Just not coming out on top. Archive shoulder would let me run dd and twist and archive.

[civic palm]

mmm

[lone junco]

That subscription top gear is keeping me sane.

[civic palm]

hahaha

[safe matrix]

whats the max combination number for patreon?

[civic palm]

Just run ROA/SS/SS with SUB/EX and cheese everything.

ez parses

[lone junco]

-0.0% and I take the 2nd strongest that keeps archive in a spot to let me keep 3ss for m+

[civic palm]

All kills must be within 3 minutes.

[lone junco]

12M

[thorny jasper]

pretty sure its 11m or something

[civic palm]

whalp

[lone junco]

I can select every reasonable trait. Plus ma/tb. Exang/subt.

[civic palm]

gimme my .2% haha

Also, love the completely useless icon for comparing.

lol

The mouseover works but just at a glance.

Nope.

[lone junco]

Then after that I select the top two and pick every 370+ item I own And 3best trinkets.

Got my reforge down to 10g.

[civic palm]

👌

[thorny jasper]

rupture during tb = still bad right

[civic palm]

reroutes RB to home domain, dodges 5USD charges

Honestly it's poor play but I doubt you will see any difference doing a Rupture during a TB from time to time.

Better than Rupture falling, for sure.

[thorny jasper]

k making sure

[civic palm]

Just make sure you are getting 1-2 Envenoms in the TB window and things will be fine.

[thorny jasper]

did something happen with double dose or was it always good

[spice surge]

It was always good

Just that SS was broken before it got nerfed, so nobody really cared about other traits

[civic palm]

Yeah other things got reigned in.

[spice surge]

And DD is fairly hard to get high ilvl on as well

[last parrot]

short advice for exsan usage on longer fights? opener is clear (thanks to ravenholdt) - but how to later in the fight? every time renew dots (undependent of pandemic) then cast exsan? or just use it on cd with dots on target?

[spice surge]

Both

[civic palm]

There was an issue in SIMC that undervalued DD iirc, that was a while ago though.

[balmy perch]

why is mother such a B****

[spice surge]

Renew rupture if its under 20 seconds and garrote on pandemic, but still use exsang on CD

[civic palm]

Is she?

[balmy perch]

she refuses to give me a weapon

[thorny jasper]

got dd on a 385 pvp piece so thats cool. thanks.

[civic palm]

mmm

[balmy perch]

use 2 rerolls on her every week

[civic palm]

She do that.

GL next try bud, don't let the randomness tilt ya as best you can :3

[balmy perch]

it just sucks being at the point rng is the only wy to increase my ilvl

[civic palm]

Welcome to MMOs

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[balmy perch]

not all mmos

[civic palm]

Welcome to MMOs that are still alive.

and not...

uhhh...

Runescape?

[balmy perch]

FF14 has a bad luck protection

[thorny jasper]

u'll get there bud

[balmy perch]

dont even get me started on titan forging

which i have yet to get a piece of

[civic palm]

If you get triggered by TFing you need to chill > _>

That shit needs to be removed but it's far past being angered by it.

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

[primal gazelle]

blizz needed titanforging to make the playerbase continue chasing the carrot on a stick

[balmy perch]

i think i need a snickers ☹

[civic palm]

WoW has BLP in raids in the sense that OTHER people will EVENTUALLY get what you want and will be able to trade it to you.

[lone junco]

TF is the only way we beat new content over time

[civic palm]

That and later in the content vendors tend to iron things out.

[lone junco]

keep grinding the same shit, bump ilvl beyond curve. and ding we win.

[dark crag]

Peasant mobile user

[lone junco]

I have 6 sockets

[civic palm]

Most of the time people clear content well over the intended item level.

TFing or not.

[balmy perch]

yep

[civic palm]

TFing is just the icing on the cake as far as I care, if I get some then sure, if I don't then whatever.

[primal gazelle]

what are those peasant enchants

[civic palm]

I don't like icing that much to begin with.

What is that peasant BfA income?!

[dark crag]

Thats just hc stuff

[civic palm]

Yeah I ain't spending 4k on HC gear > _>

So...

anyone else have weird routing issues the first time they try to access their character page on armory?

[primal gazelle]

let me raise you with 9 sockets

[civic palm]

Will either null out and go back to google or to the the WoW landing page.

[lone junco]

i took the ench from my g bank.

[civic palm]

shhh

[lone junco]

but it was a 0 dps gain

neat

[civic palm]

Can I unpeasant this peasant ass weapon enchantment glow?

[lone junco]

thats actually amazing

[dark crag]

Sockets are too powerfull i can't get rid if my 360 ring

[balmy perch]

i actually do have 1 titan forge

[lone junco]

20 haste from enc. and 0 dps gain on avg

grats

[civic palm]

Pretty much.

it's +10

ooo

Which is ~20dps per enchant.

[lone junco]

I knew i checked it before and it was like 30 dps.

[thorny jasper]

sockets on rings > all

[civic palm]

Sockets are bonkers, for sure.

[thorny jasper]

u

[civic palm]

THAT FUCKING TRANSMOG

JEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEZUZ CHRIST

[thorny jasper]

will probably hold that 360 ring until u get a higher ring w another socket

[lone junco]

16344 to 16377

[dark crag]

I have a 370 with socket but thats my sub ring

[thorny jasper]

i made a mistake and pressed the gem button in top gear

chrome almost crashed

ITERATIONS: 261,120,000 / 4,000,000 (52,224 COMBINATIONS)

[lone junco]

was sad to use a 355 socket offhand over 370 offhand, but offhand is fairly worthless.

[dark crag]

How can your browser crash? Its just a website

[lone junco]

im running one now with crit/haste./mastery and same of ench

[thorny jasper]

its ok bud just means u can use it in mainhand for ur mt set

[lone junco]

tbh, I was hoping garrote scaled with wep dmg, I would be using fat mace for wep in M+

alas.

[civic palm]

It's pretty easy to crash a browser page.

pages are easy, the whole thing not so much.

[dark crag]

A page yes

[thorny jasper]

im a simple man i press the gem button chrome stops responding

[dark crag]

Was it the ram button?

[lone junco]

ive never missed the sin bracers until our ghuun work this week.

too bad blindside is such trash.

[civic palm]

yeaaaaaah

Sitting at 8% for 2 minutes O _O

Please.

Die.

[lone junco]

i kept coming in at 99% each time we wiped. best is 2%

[dark crag]

Are warris executing?

[civic palm]

Fucking...

executes

[lone junco]

bottom warrior is carrying the orb.

he dies a lot too.

[civic palm]

,<

_>

Pick it up... other Rogue.

[dark crag]

Is that mythic?

[civic palm]

No.

I would probably be on the Lock if it were.

[dark crag]

Oh

[lone junco]

this gem/ench sim is actually pretty funny. mut be like 50 options in the -0.2% range

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fRrLgXkb1XXRuXiHzqsdKz

[civic palm]

Yeah.

[lone junco]

a billion iterations, still comes back with all haste

[civic palm]

Yeah just get more Haste bud.

[balmy perch]

i need to try to use Toxic blade more

[civic palm]

Time to poll the fucking Galactic Computer.

[balmy perch]

only used it 8 times in a 5 minute fight. granted part of that i wasnt able to attack mother

[dark crag]

42

[civic palm]

GC: Haste... my dood.

droning noise

[woeful sentinel]

anyone got good weak auras for tracking garrote / rupture on your target?

[civic palm]

!WA

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[civic palm]

no comment

_>

I like mine the best > _>

[cobalt gyro]

Hmm sounds like bias

[civic palm]

What nooo, no no no.

If I found something I liked more I would use it > _>

[strange python]

Hey guys, i just came back to Wow, it's been a month and half and I just want to know if there are BIG changes (like big big biiiiiiiig) or if the game (as a rogue) is pretty much the same

[civic palm]

SIN GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ FAQ IN PINS-->

[strange python]

(like do we still receive violent insult as Assa rogue in wpvp ? aha=

[tepid orchid]

is NE master race for assassination in pve?

[royal lantern]

alliance race? best race for something?

[civic palm]

Probably not.

[warm heath]

ive looked at the guide is there any better thing towards how traits rank or is those the few we really need to get?

[fierce knoll]

whats the predictions for Siege of Zuldazar? is sin still going to be the top dog or will sub take over the spot?

[civic palm]

🔮

[thorny jasper]

hey why do people cast rupture during vanish subterfuge if it doesnt get empowered

see a lot of it on top end logs

like they'll overwrite it

[safe matrix]

like you mean

garrote rupture garrote?

[balmy perch]

i always assumed garrote rupture garote was to proc elaborate planning

[safe matrix]

no

its to pandemic and extend out the bleeds

[balmy perch]

of ya that also

[thorny jasper]

yeah but i dont understand why ppl overwrite the rupture if it isnt empowered

thats nightstalker only ya?

[lone junco]

The double rupture is for the lust GC exang.

[rocky notch]

yeah

[thorny jasper]

toxic blade not exsang

thats definitely not right, right

[lone junco]

Then you wouldn't double rupture.

[thorny jasper]

hold on ill find an example

[lone junco]

Just run your sim and read the apl.

Traits. Talents and trinkets matter.

[untold terrace]

I've been trying to save toxic blade for at most 5-6 seconds so I can fit 2 envenoms in it

is that bad? should ir eally just be hitting is as soon as its off cd?

[harsh sphinx]

so you don't open like this because you want the G-R-G to pandemic and extend bleeds?

[lone junco]

@untold terrace dont delay the TB. pool prior or fire away. Losing out on 1-2 TB casts for the fight duration is way worse than not buffing a few Env.

[inner cairn]

Guys, is anyone else getting Mastery as primary stat in raidbot sims?

I ran a sim today and it told me to change gems and enchants to mastery

[lone junco]

what was the gain? most likely +0.1 or less.

[inner cairn]

0,3% +

[lone junco]

I ran a sim of all gem combos. and there were 50 soultions less than 0.2%

weird. on the mastery though. both SS and TB are haste for me.

[inner cairn]

It's probably related to my itens

[lone junco]

@harsh sphinx the apl is g r g vendetta mut rupture gc exang. now. Idk the exact gain of ggr vs g r g mut mut r exang.

@inner cairn i did hit a point of 23% haste before the Archive, so i can see haste dumping if you kept that up

[harsh sphinx]

i was just messing with it in uldir it felt like it was a bigger opener but i'll have to try more

[inner cairn]

That makes sense

Thanks, @lone junco

[lone junco]

the pandemic push on a 3cp rupture + a 4/5cp rupture. vs a 5cp rupture.

idk.

3 + 5 = 31 sec

5cp is 24s

[cyan gyro]

Quick question on sims - Is there a way to sim racials in raidbots?

[true rapids]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6SDeFnuht4v4LvxLkxeG4r

There is such a thing as too much haste

[mystic charm]

Fight Style

HecticAddCleave

[drifting elbow]

that mode deserves to be deleted

[true rapids]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7Wm5sr7i1HJyZhPf2JJ97X

k fixed

[quiet horizon]

question, i have harlan's dice, fathoms and lion's guile, which trinkets should i use?

[drifting elbow]

sim

[true rapids]

are they all the same ilvl?

[quiet horizon]

besides for fathoms, the other 2 are 370

[drifting elbow]

can already guess that for aoe, dice and guile is better

[rich crow]

Hey new player here, I cant keep my dps up on the raid and I just found out about logs and they are saying I dont have a good dps performance for my ilvl but idk what im doing wrong 😞 https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/8fzrPWJk1ZpqbhKC/#fight=last&type=damage-done

[drifting elbow]

complains about u but not the actual shitters under u?

[vernal sequoia]

ho does one get a 99 parse on fetid

how*

[drifting elbow]

hc?

[rich crow]

yeah

[drifting elbow]

just nuke it death on 1min mark

[vernal sequoia]

what

[rich crow]

Is there a way for me to see what I can improve because idk I fell like im not playing it wrong but clearly I am

[vernal sequoia]

mark for death?

[drifting elbow]

....

kill it in 1min

thats all

[vernal sequoia]

that sucks

[rich crow]

well... shit =/

[vernal sequoia]

i got a 99 on ghuun and mother tonight

[drifting elbow]

im surprised that u got that high melee dmg champ

[vernal sequoia]

pretty happy about that

oh no 87 on mother 99 on zek

97*

[rich crow]

lol ty

I felt something was wrong but I guess sin dmg just drop down the longer the fight?

[drifting elbow]

no

its very stable after burst

unless u r literally running around

[vernal sequoia]

it always will if you are prepotting

[drifting elbow]

ofc it does

[rich crow]

hmm

[drifting elbow]

are u using FoK without 3+ mobs?

[upper island]

are you apsallar?

[drifting elbow]

there is only one rogue

[upper island]

moonkas

your uptime is rough for garrote and rupture

[oak tangle]

@rich crow a big buff would be to use an uldir azerite trait

[drifting elbow]

u r using way too much fan of knifes lol

[oak tangle]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/pQ1jaBY7XctxgwhR/#fight=20&type=damage-done&source=36

is my logs for a heroic zek

[upper island]

look at that uptime

mmmmmmmm

[oak tangle]

im by no means great, but i did get a purple

[rich crow]

hmm

I have a chest but then I have to give up ss

I just fell like it would be weird

but i'll try I guess

[drifting elbow]

yeah, less FoK uses without 4 mobs stacked, get raid trait in, sharp up ur rupture+garrote to 90+% uptime

[oak tangle]

it'll be a slightly different playstyle, but you gain like 500 haste

[drifting elbow]

should be seeing more dps next time with little study

[oak tangle]

depending on RA stacks

[drifting elbow]

but really, biggest problem is those dps under u

🙃

[rich crow]

okay

will do

thanks guys ❤

[upper island]

do you have a weakaura or something tracking bleeds?

[oak tangle]

me or champs

[upper island]

champs

[rich crow]

I do

but sometimes I reaply too son

its my bad

[oak tangle]

i have a weakaura that shows pandemic timers

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923750073499648/504883548428304395/unknown.png

[spring iron]

what weapon enchants are we running?

[rich crow]

Im going with deadly and quick

[drifting elbow]

more like, u r dropping bleeds too often

normally haste and crit, clubbins

[thorny jasper]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[half tartan]

Got lucky with triple SS, would Crimson Tempest / Escang be > Poison bomb / TB for general M+?

[onyx rock]

Yes

[half tartan]

TY

[thorny shore]

poison bomb only rest and sethralis

[half tartan]

Thanks!

[balmy perch]

is assasination on par with sub for M+ or does sub overtake sin?

[half tartan]

Would general opener on trash be Garrote*3, Rup on prio, Exsang, Fok to 4-5, CT? 4-5 mobs

[thorny shore]

sin better on most high keys 13/14+ , but sub its better on some cenarios.

[safe matrix]

Depends on the dungeon

They're both strong

[balmy perch]

i need to find a steady M+ group

this pugging stuff is brutal sometimes

[drifting elbow]

depends on skill levels

even guild grp can be really brutal

🤷

[cloud grove]

hmm

trying to sap a warlock

says invalid target

[grand trail]

Sometimes I wonder how much I can trust those Sims

Was looking at chest from fetid but SS and archives simming lower (by lot) than unstable catalyst I have

[drifting elbow]

....

did u see the differences those traits has

[vernal sequoia]

finally simming 17k dps

[drifting elbow]

do u really want to stand still with catalyst trait when mechanic is happening

[vernal sequoia]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/q5qRuqwyB38VWEXBrYCXht

finally feeling up to par

still using cheap enchants and gems like a peasent

[grand trail]

I don't, but if it simming 200 dps more I take it

[drifting elbow]

sadly its probably under 17k due to not having dagger uptime behind target 100%

u can take it sure, but dont expect to get full use on that with movement situations

its quite annoying trait to have

though idk how u r getting more dps from that trait than archive when they are practically same dps at equal ilvl azerite

[grand trail]

Yeah I have no idea

I'm using raidbot

The secondary trait is the same unstable flames for both

Ilvl is 385 on both

[drifting elbow]

are u sure u r not missing second ring traits

[grand trail]

You can try for me

Use Gossipek from drakthul

And you will see

[weary arrow]

Does using exsang affect all targets that have your bleeds on them or only your current targets bleeds?

[drifting elbow]

only one target

[arctic zinc]

hi : D a little thinker, has a little hard to decide which trinkets to use, I have plumage 380, dooms wake 370, azerokks 370, dead-eye spyglass 370 with the socceT and a galecallers boom 370 soccet and do not forget about the darkmoon deck , what would you use?

[drifting elbow]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/8asRzEsJEL4e9BEgcVmag3

[icy hare]

how do you open on an AoE pack with exsang, CT, and SS?

[drifting elbow]

@grand trail practically same dps as catalyst in movement fights

ggg-r-fok to 4+cp-CT

on 4 mob pack

[icy hare]

even though you would be over-generating combo points before the rupture because of SS?

[candid mica]

yes

[drifting elbow]

SS boost garrote dmg a lot

[candid mica]

garrote dmg is insane

[icy hare]

and if i have marked for death, do i skip the fok to 4, and go straight into CT?

then exsang on the primary target?

[dusky fulcrum]

Wait wtf is CT

[icy hare]

crimson tempest

[candid mica]

you shouldn't be running mfd

in the first place

[dusky fulcrum]

I honestly forgot it existed

[drifting elbow]

u want to spread poisons to make sure tho with FoK

[icy hare]

yeah

[candid mica]

ct can apply dp

[dusky fulcrum]

is it better than bomb in high keys?

[icy hare]

i think what confuses me most is when to exsang

[candid mica]

so go right into ct in that case

[drifting elbow]

u could spare marked skill for new rupture on exsang target

its pretty straightforward

exsan is 45sec cd

so its practically only one per pack average

just put long dot times onto exsanguinated target

though, remember to let garrote drop first before u put in new garrote for exsan

[icy hare]

alright so then,
g-g-g-r-fok til 4cp-ct-mark-r-exsang?

[drifting elbow]

-mark-r-exsan works well on 4th target that has not buffed garrote

looks to me that u use too soon for other targets due to first garrotes being already on low counts

exsan use that is

u can practise on those multitarget dummies those rotations

[grand trail]

@drifting elbow even if its breakeven

My point is that at hero dmg its listed very low

So its not suppose to break even vs top traits

[drifting elbow]

yea but they are not ur personal sims

they are just guidelines of their values

[grand trail]

UnsTable catalyst is pain in the ass, was dropping on floor when I was running from target to target

But in most of cases, I'm able to take full advantage of it

[formal jasper]

what sim options do you use to sim m+ stats ?

[drifting elbow]

4-6 targets 40sec time, unbuffed

[last parrot]

@drifting elbow why let drop garrote before exsan? I only get eysan usage in the opener lol 😂

Rest is mystery

[drifting elbow]

because of priorities u have on opener on pack of mobs, time left in first garrotes that are buffed from subterfuge talent are on low/last seconds left

using exsang on low/last seconds is just waste

simply better to have whole fresh durations on bleeds for exsang

[last parrot]

Yea thats clear

So you talked blut subt-buffed-garrote

Thought you mean every time. Usually re-garrote in pandemic then exsan thought

Blut=bout

[drifting elbow]

well topic originated from opener so yeah most of comments are about that duration

[cursive dune]

@drifting elbow "though, remember to let garrote drop first before u put in new garrote for exsan" why this?

[drifting elbow]

....

its same answer as i told to amko

[vestal wren]

mystlers wowhead guide is 👍 btw.
https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide

[cursive dune]

my point is why not double subterfuge garrotes then exsang

[drifting elbow]

why u would do that to single target when its pack of mobs

spreading garrotes to 3 target with buffeted garrotes should be more dps

[vocal harbor]

how is harlan's loaded dice for us?

[drifting elbow]

one of the best

[oak tangle]

outlaw roleplay

[vocal harbor]

i just got a 375 socketed dice

[vestal wren]

gz

[vocal harbor]

i've been using 375 on use agility pvp trinket

[solid nova]

[vocal harbor]

but this will probably sim higher

[solid nova]

Socket life

[grizzled jay]

Damn you got good trinkets

[vocal harbor]

still no galecaller's

[grizzled jay]

Cant complain got 380 Harlan with leech and 375 Galecaller

[oak tangle]

385 dead eye spyglass and a 375 dice for me

[vocal harbor]

i'm still using a fathoms

[grizzled jay]

Nice

[oak tangle]

bige +10 titanforge

[grizzled jay]

Well fathoms still sims just 80 dps lower than 375 Boon

On my char that is

[vocal harbor]

is it possible to generate statweights for a topgear sim?

i basically want to generate stat weights for a gearset of traits i don't currently have

so i don't have to spend gold on reforging

[drifting elbow]

that feature is not going to happen same time as other functions

statweights will only be seen when u have chosen single gear setup with stat weight sim

[edgy latch]

What do you do with vendetta on pull

on ghuun

I'm finding that it's getting misaligned when p2 starts if we do p1 too quickly

which leads to exsang being delayed for adds

[drifting elbow]

u just adapt if u cant do consistent phase times

[edgy latch]

ive been trying out on skipping vendetta on pull

since i only have time for 3 envenoms before expulsom hits me

and i'm in 2nd orb group

[frosty pewter]

hello there, new rogue player, wanted to ask acouple of question to the veterans here 😄

do you guys still use shrouded suffocation? and what opener-rota would you suggest for exsanguinate with/without ss trait?

[grizzled jay]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/

[solid nova]

It's covered in the guide my man

Along with other FAQs that might be of benefit to you

As well as the pinned messages

[frosty pewter]

i checked it out but saw it said 8.0 for assassin so figured i'd ask here for ss

alright, ill check em out, ty!

[supple hearth]

Can also check sims from herodamage (link in pins) to see general trait values and should sim yourself to see what combinations you have that work best

[vocal kindle]

Shadowcraft still up to date or not needed now due to raidbots

[solid nova]

@vocal kindle http://www.ravenholdt.net/news/shadowcraft-wow-rogue-dps-optimizer-casts-final-vanish/

[vocal kindle]

Thanks, such a good website, helped me out loads over the years

[zinc zephyr]

385 secrets of the deep vs 370 archive for m+? Can some1 help me decide? 😄

[slow cedar]

hey friends, on the assassination guide on the ravenholdt website I saw there's garrote > rupture > garrote in the opener with 1-2 SS traits. I'm unsure why that's the case.. wouldn't it be better to go garrote > garrote > rupture since both run out roughly at the same time so both can be re-applied after vanish again

with the suggested opener rupture runs out much earlier so it doesnt really line up

[quick ice]

you don't lose a CP the G-R-G way

[gusty yoke]

Isnt G-G-R still better? You lose cp but you get a stronger R

[supple hearth]

how is it stronger

[gusty yoke]

Longer duration?

[quick ice]

doesn't matter if they line up tbh

and if you're playing exsang, you apply a 2nd 5CP rupture after the GRG

[winter fog]

afer applying the first rupture you get to 5 cp and apply it again for full pandemic exsanguinate

[grizzled jay]

Yep

[winter fog]

so G R G is the same thing duration wise, but doesnt lose cp

[tidal sedge]

if you want to be real saucy mut for 5 cp then exsang

5cp CT*

[buoyant ember]

^

[grizzled jay]

Then Muti to 5 and use bleed kidney on prio add and watch it blow the fuck up

[supple hearth]

even if not using exsang the duration is longer your way but the damage is the same

[tidal sedge]

i used to not believe in CT but after using it a lot in m+ i don't think i can go back to PB honestly

[supple hearth]

CT in raids gross

[tidal sedge]

good thing i dont raid

[buoyant ember]

Couple of fights make good use of it

Also, it's not bad in some m+

[grizzled jay]

Yep its good just need to know how and when to use it. I wish they removed bomb. Ad give us a choice of kingsbane or CT

[vast forum]

They don't want st vs aoe talents on same row

[buoyant ember]

Ironically that's how I see Fuge v. MA and PB v. CT....

[lone junco]

@vocal harbor sure. You can use top gear or gear compare to build a profile set. Then copy the profile data to paste into stat weights or top gear

@gusty yoke g r g m r gives you 3cp + 5cp for 31 sec max rupture.

Given SS.

[gusty yoke]

At this point i just press all my buttons and see what rngjesus deems the right skill to use

[tropic shadow]

RNG all of the things

[turbid stratus]

is it worth wearing a 355 helm with double dose instead of a 370 one with archive (i already have archive on shoulders)

[proud surge]

Sim dudes simmm

Dd will only help u on single target

[drifting elbow]

well it was very interesting topic about top 500 runs not updating with newest runs for raider io

those irl guys are so dumb

[strange python]

do our dots snapshot elaborate planning?

[spice surge]

No

[strange python]

i guess the uptime is high enough that it wouldnt matter much anyway

[native saddle]

blood rite or scent of blood for m+?

[supple hearth]

Sob

[knotty spruce]

hey guys. I know sims about SS in M+ scenario are kind of iffy, so I will ask here: Is it worth to equip 2x 345 SS peaces over 2x 370 SB peaces?

My 3rd peace is 370 SS Armor

[delicate egret]

Question: Should I save up energy before using vendetta?

[normal spear]

vendetta gives you energy. why would you want to overcap on energy?

[delicate egret]

Well, it generates it over time, no?

[wheat zealot]

60 energy over 3 seconds

No reason to pool for anything

[frail wasp]

It generates a good chunk over a short period

[delicate egret]

Right, thanks.

[quartz rune]

@knotty spruce probably yes. For fort weeks for sure. As SB does not really grant you anything on trash. SS is just so strong in m+

[knotty spruce]

guessed so, but it feels strange to wear 345 ilvl ... 😄

thanks for the quick responce!

[opaque grotto]

It’s normal really

I have 2 385 pieces but I wear 3 370s in raid

[polar goblet]

same and feelsbadman

[desert vault]

So I'm running MA/TB on Fetid and on small add duty just trying to see how to be best on it since we are sometimes struggling a bit on first set of adds. The second stomp happens just after the adds spawn right? I saw some rogue POV videos they would pull from boss and head to add spawn just before stomp to be ready to get right at it. I was trying to sort of use stomp to get to add, but wasn't getting on the add for a few seconds after stomp typically

We are using CDs on pull, so no CDs for first set of adds making them the real test cause after that its CDs and Lust for other sets so they will go away quickly

I was using my step for first stomp most of the time unless our DH has debuff so we didn't clip one another. Looks like most every video I've watched it has rogue going to waterfall 1-3s early, seems like the plan

[vast patio]

Is triple shroud still the way to go, or is double shroud + 1 scent good for M+?

[lone junco]

depends. if you would classify your groups pulls as 4t20, then ss is going to win by far. but if you are 8t40s or 10t40s scent starts taking over.

you can sim that with lust off.

if you want to dunk dps for hps, due to ilvl, like 385 vs 340, that is up to you.

[vast patio]

What parameters are typically used to sim dungeons?

All involved pieces are 370, so ilvl isn't an issue.

[strange python]

4-6 targets 40sec-1min

No BL

[vast patio]

Thanks Michee

[lone junco]

this is what I use.

[strange python]

Why no food though

[weary lily]

Regarding rotation, i've read the FAQ and Wowhead/ravenholdt guide but i may be missing something regarding TB. after the opener do i save TB for the envom window (were i know i can get at least two off) or do i just dump it even when building to refresh rupture ?

[vast patio]

because quaking :>

[strange python]

@weary lily Tb always on cooldown

You can refresh dots before

And no, you do not use TB as a builder to spend it on rupture

You're wasting an envenom

Which is your priority in TB windows

[weary lily]

Okay Thanks, so it should all line up so dots are refreshed before the TB is off CD. Sorry new to Rogue and assa just working it out.

[solid nova]

Yeah, refresh prior in pandemic windows and you're good to go with the above in mind

[lone hamlet]

Got 385 sob is it any good at raids ?

[versed finch]

Single target it's not great

Fights with adds that you can multi rupture is where you'll see it do work

[regal pelican]

Hello, new to sin rogue. I see that most resources saying to use FOK over mutilate on 2+ targets but is that only true for a certain crit rating or does the math work out where even for 2 targets at any crit rating, it's a better generator? thanks!

[strange python]

Wrong

General usage rules are now:

1. Use Mutilate at 2 Targets always, swapping targets with Mutilate briefly if needed to reapply poisons to the second target (with or without Double Dose)
2. Use Fan of Knives any time a target doesn't have Deadly Poison at 3 targets (or 3-4 with 2+ Ranks of Double Dose), otherwise use Mutilate on your primary target
3. Use Fan of Knives spam at 4+ targets (or 5+ with 2+ Ranks of Double Dose)

[regal pelican]

oh ok makes sense, thanks

does this change with any level of crit because it mathematically becomes a stronger CP generator or is the damage differential too great?

like for instance over 50% crit (which is almost impossible now) would flip the that on 2 targets

[strange python]

Why would you have 50% crit as sin

[regal pelican]

fair enough lol

thanks

[strange python]

Your crit won't be over 35% ever

You still need some haste and mastery

[crystal vault]

Hello, i got a Galecaller's Boon Wa from wago, it should glow yellow when i am inside, but it doesnt. anyone got a WA that works ?

[safe root]

nop i just made a simple one to track the cd, just make sure i pop it when i know i can sit in its full duration

[hollow stone]

Make a wa to track the buff on you. If the wa doesnt show, it means youre not in it

You can make it glow too if it makes you feel pretty

[crystal vault]

got it

[desert vault]

I don't know why I can't get the stupid WA I made for GCB to work. Just took a CD WA for Vanish and tried to modify it but I'm missing something. Not that good with WA clearly

[spice surge]

You have to change spell CD to item cd

[vale helm]

When are people starting to sim higher on exang or is it a preference? Because from all blues+bad stats to mid 370s with good haste I've been simming TB over Exang

[opaque grotto]

Depends on gear, but more specifically whether or not you’re running SS traits

[vale helm]

With a 385+370 SS piece it's still telling me to go TB

[strange python]

What is the dps difference

And are you running subterfuge?

[vale helm]

Yes to subterfuge and anywhere between 0.6-3%

Which I know isn't anything major. Just wondering why everyone is running Exang when I have what I'd think is pretty solid gear for exang and it's still not overtaken it

All I'm missing is a Shrine trinket I guess

[grand trail]

@vale helm i was simming TB better at 340 ilvl and now at 381.. no matter if SS or not

[strange python]

Not every1 is running exsang

TB is more popular in raids than exsang

[grand trail]

Only difference for me when i have SS trait is that I run sub instead of master assasin

[little burrow]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[bleak star]

is there anyone here to check a taloc fight and see what im doing wrong as ass?

[strange python]

link

[final dust]

^^

[bleak star]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/HDjZfYqwNpL8Gax4/#type=damage-done&fight=1&source=3

[strange python]

https://gyazo.com/8dcb5dfe086fce021e649913d4bfb9f0

Read the guide

Please

[bleak star]

i dont get that?

[final dust]

Also you are not clipping your elaborate palanning

[bleak star]

i didnt spec EP

[opaque grotto]

...

[strange python]

https://gyazo.com/e933d5090469e47b20859d461545500e

[final dust]

You definitely had EP on the log that you linked

[bleak star]

ohh shit i did

thats maybe why it was lower than before

[hollow stone]

@desert vault because the gcb buff doesnt have a duration (at least it doesnt show a duration on your buff bar), you need to click off "show remaining time" in your wa. Im at work so i cant show you but if you dont figure it out, dm me and ill hit you back tonight

[final dust]

Definitely on 59% uptime

[opaque grotto]

You can legit ignore EP and it’s better than the other talents

[final dust]

And almost none is clipped together

[strange python]

Your first vanish is way too late

And you used vanish only twice in that fight

[bleak star]

so with EP i combo at 4 cp?

well its taloc

[final dust]

Yes

[bleak star]

vanish is 2m? maybe i missed it on lift

[strange python]

You missed it at beginning

You used it at 1min 24 sec

when it should be at max 20sec

[bleak star]

how long does double garrote last on opening?

[strange python]

Def not 1minute lol

[bleak star]

okay nice tips so vanish garrote i do suck at

[hollow stone]

I think 22 sec

[bleak star]

and use CP at 4 with EP?

[strange python]

No

U can use at 5 too

Just dont muti if ure at 4

[bleak star]

okay thanks

[strange python]

Just read the guide

Most of it is explained there

[bleak star]

im playing sub at the same time but my parses are like 50-60 so shit

that guide is not openeing for me

its just a graph

[strange python]

what

[final dust]

That’s a picture of your opener

The guide is in the info section

[bleak star]

http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ this?

[final dust]

Yes

[bleak star]

so i dont double garrote open?

[fickle viper]

Is there a way to differentiate between normal Garrote debuff and subterfuge Garrote debuff?

[bleak star]

yes memory

[final dust]

Hurricane the only reason I double garrote is if u have both Sub and SS

Then the opener is Gar>Rup>Gar

[bleak star]

ohh i read somewhere double gar means it has more up time so makes opening better

[balmy perch]

yes but it doesnt have to be back to back garrotes

to be effective

[bleak star]

yeah but then the rup will only have 2 cp?

[final dust]

No

Cause SS gives you 3

[bleak star]

stil why not take 4?

still trying to understand it all

double gar gives 4 and a big super gar then ull have a 4 cp rup

[final dust]

Okay lemme write it out raw

Rq

With SS you get 3 cp per cast so you Gar Rup Gar to #1 get the buffed garrote #2 to start a rupture near pandemic timer you then vendetta must Rup to get the dmg boost for your garrote and get a buffed rupture

Muttilate*

Does that make sense?

[bleak star]

not really,

[final dust]

What doesn’t make sense?

[waxen blaze]

Any tips on when to and how much energy to pool in a single Target encounter?

[bleak star]

for opening you say gar rup gar WITH SS so i get a 3 rup so when im in vendetta the next rupture i cast will be a long super rup due to pandemic time added?

and then i repeat this with each vanish ?

[final dust]

Yes u Gar>Rup>Gar>Vend>Muttilate>Rupture

Then just go to basic rotation

[bleak star]

oaky it makes sense now, but with no SS is it the same?

[final dust]

@waxen blaze I start pooling when I can no longer clip my EP and pool till about 80-90%

[bleak star]

i use no addons

so cant even track EP

[strange python]

Read the guide

Literally

[waxen blaze]

ty for the quick answer @final dust

[strange python]

Please

[bleak star]

ive read the guide

the guide is not simple

[strange python]

It is very simple

I posted your opening

And I posted the correct opening

[bleak star]

yes i understand the openings more so now since fenwig helped

but weaving EP is hard for me thats why i normally use MP since i get more dps

[solid nova]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[final dust]

@bleak star just look at the image that I dmd you

[bleak star]

yeah i got it thanks

[final dust]

👍🏻

[bleak star]

so to literally get better parses i need to dl addons and git gud with EP?

[final dust]

Basically I use a EP tracker

[scarlet condor]

Ep?

[final dust]

To see when is the last second I can clip

Elaborate planning

[scarlet condor]

Ah

[bleak star]

and to clip i would just spend CP?

no matter how many CP i have?

[scarlet condor]

Sorry and thx for answer

[final dust]

Nothing lower then 4 but do not use muttilate if u have 4

[bleak star]

i mean i play lock DH war and sham with no addons

and get good parses

[final dust]

You can use garrote if u have 4 and time on the EP timer

[bleak star]

but rogue needs like a fucking addons robot spec

[strange python]

No it doesn't

WA helps u keep track of things

Without looking in the top corner or w/e

You can have everything under your character

[bleak star]

yeah but EP is 4 seconds unless you have fish eyes you cant really play and loot at the top corner lol

[dense quest]

assa is a dot base spec

you do need to track stuff

[quasi pewter]

only wa you "need" as rogue is a rtb wa for outlaw, everything else is just preference

[dense quest]

especially how many dot buff you do

you really need to keep track of them

[bleak star]

lock is easier than rogue

[dense quest]

where as old DH you just spam

[bleak star]

as u can see the dots its not 4 second buffs

lock is actually ez mode

nothing like rogue

[dense quest]

assa is like a lock but melee

you want to do you use ur legs

dot

[bleak star]

yes but not for EP maximum dps

i sim only 100 less dps with MP

[dense quest]

well if you are good at keeping a mental timer its 5 seconds every time

but thats not the issue its all the other damage windows that you need to keep track of

[bleak star]

its just the pooling of energy and stuff linked to EP that i cant do due to no addons

lock has none of this

u do mega opening then just dot recycle until cds

im getting 60 parses as SUB too so im playing rogue bad in 2 specs

[dense quest]

well if you dont track anything then thats probably why

do you have anything against using addons? are you practicing for pvp tournament?

[bleak star]

yeah i suppose ill have to use WA to get better as i just cant do it otherwise

no i just like a clean UI

[dense quest]

very vague there is tons of "clean ui" that uses addons

[quasi pewter]

what exactly do you have problems with @bleak star ? just tracking EP?

because pooling is not going to be a huge dps increase if ur blue parsing

[bleak star]

well my uptime on EP was 59% on taloc which is not too bad due to lift phase but yes it seems i lose much DPS due to EP management

[quasi pewter]

there is definitely bigger issues

[bleak star]

well i linked my parse

ofc fathoms would help but im not buying it

i just need to see how bad my rotation is

[dense quest]

telling you you play a dot base spec you should keep track of all your dots

[bleak star]

i can track my dots just not my dots buff

[dense quest]

especially assa rogues we have so many windows where we need to buff or do different things

[quasi pewter]

hurricane501Today at 17:41
i can track my dots just not my dots buff

what does that mean 😄

[bleak star]

means EP doesnt show like dots do

also dots are not 4 sec timers lol

[dense quest]

thats the whole point of weakauras

[remote jay]

If I have Galecaller's Boon, and I'm using one SS trait, when do I use trinket in the opener?

[strange python]

before Exsang

[dense quest]

use it with vendetta

then on cd

[strange python]

Use it right before exsang

So it snapshots the haste

[remote jay]

cool, thank you both

[bleak star]

overall how much extra damage does EP gain over MP?

[strange python]

Sim it

[bleak star]

i did sim but 100 dps doesnt seem right

[strange python]

then its 100 dps difference

[rocky notch]

Enough that I've never seen anyone say mp is better

For them

[dense quest]

I really dont know why you think EP is the problem, if you just want to justify using MP no one is stopping you

[bleak star]

EP also buffs fathoms so i think thats why

fathoms is silly op

[rocky notch]

Fathoms isn't even THAT good for sin, relative to others

[bleak star]

well fathoms is doing like 5x my trinket damage

[rocky notch]

For some melee they need much higher ilvl trinkets than we do to replace it

[bleak star]

if we remove both trinkets drom damage done i can normally do more damage than other rogues my level

[round harbor]

Hurricane are u a mythic raider

[rocky notch]

If you can't spend 30k to get a fathoms

[dense quest]

you clip all of your empowered garrotes

with regular garrotes

[rocky notch]

Idk why you're putting in any effort

[dense quest]

worrying about EP isnt your biggest issue here

[round harbor]

^

[bleak star]

i put effort in to all my stuff just because i dont mythic raid on my rogue doesnt mean i shouldnt want to get better

[round harbor]

Not buying a bis trinket is like not buying weapon enchants since it's only a little better

[bleak star]

and relying on a trinket no i can still play better even tho lower dps due to a trinket

its not though

coz next patch there will be better trinkets

i need to learn to play

not be carried by a trinket