assassination

[velvet kernel]

makes him number 1

xD

[thin trout]

guys atm I'm rank #109.092, so i guess i won't be that picky

[proper zealot]

@velvet kernel I'm Canadian. : )

[inner pecan]

https://raider.io/mythic-plus/season-bfa-1/world/leaderboards-character/rogue/all

[velvet kernel]

pogchamp i love canadians

[inner pecan]

You can go down this list and click, most have streams linked

If you want to check high m+ gameplay that's a great way to do it

[floral frost]

what settings should i use in raidbots for m+/aoe sim?

[velvet kernel]

6 targets 40 sc

[proper zealot]

6 targets, 40 seconds, buffs off.

[velvet kernel]

patchwekr

fuck me i can't spell

[floral frost]

thanks

[obtuse ruin]

whats the ideal talents now for m+?

[sharp nova]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[strange python]

@obtuse ruin check the guide

[round harbor]

Tldr it's dungeon and group dependant

[fiery mauve]

Dungeon and group dependent? Isnt it usually between exsang and tb

Which is mostly prob if its fort or tyrannical

[daring imp]

i think you meant pb/ct

[frail wasp]

^

[fiery mauve]

Ct is pretty poop unless you're doing very large pulls no?

[daring imp]

how many is "very"

[near current]

i use ct in most m+ dungeons

[fiery mauve]

I'd assume around 6+ maybe 5+ packs ct pulls ahead

[frail wasp]

To my understanding, CT pulls ahead at 3-4+

[fiery mauve]

Hm, well, shit

[frail wasp]

I've found better results running it in those scenarios, more so with more mobs

[haughty flame]

is it still wise to use 3x SS

340 ilvl with SS over 370 without?

[limpid willow]

sim it

though i think it depends on fight length? i havent been up to snuff on sin but there might be value in that in m+ though since you can throw up buffed garrotes every trash pull

[fiery mauve]

Prob depends on 370 trait and if its m+or raid

[young flame]

Do you guys use Tab targetting to multi dot with Rupture ?

[spring chasm]

not always

[young flame]

What's the best way to go about it?

[lone junco]

@daring imp fun fact. I tested Ct vs env in st. And with GC and exang. A single Ct is worth substantially more than an env. Made me lol.

[marble hemlock]

a mix of tab-targetting, having good nameplates that you click, and a /cast [@mouseover] Rupture macro

[spring chasm]

how did you test that

[lone junco]

Specifically the first one. Not sure that uptime is worth it. But yeah.

[young flame]

Do ElvUI nameplates count as good nameplates @marble hemlock

[marble hemlock]

whatever nameplates you think are clean enough for you to click the one you want quickly

its just an issue of visibility, so you can quickly distinguish certain mobs based on their name, aswellas seeing the important debuffs

you can do that with pretty much any nameplate addon

what works for me might not work for you, and vice versa

[young flame]

Alright, thanks 😃

[velvet kernel]

It’s testing them basically

[spring chasm]

i have bigger Nameplates for targets that arent debuffed with rupture, makes it easier to see for me which target is ruptured and which isnt

[marble hemlock]

do you catch yourself missclicking nameplates somewhat regularly or cant see which mobs are casting or click on a nameplate only to realize it already has the dot on it that you wanted to apply? thats usually the point where you may wanna think about configuring your nameplates a bit more

[velvet kernel]

Drjays nameplates are good too

Very good for m+

[lone junco]

When you do 1 Ct you get a hit and series of ticks. Values ranged around 12k total at about 25% crit.

Env averages after 2-3 mins were around 9k with big crits but low crit rate.

It is very intuitive to me. That the GC. Exang overlap may benefit the Ct.

But the env loss over time really lowers the DP rates.

Aka. I doubt the apl ever tried to use just one Ct. right before exang.

You sacrifice the full rupture pandemic to gain the Ct. but it might be worth looking at when we are stuck in m+ with Ct.

[marble hemlock]

good nameplates should enable you to distinguish mobs by name, see the important debuffs (in assas case that would be garrote, deadly poison and rupture), have a highlight for mobs that are casting something and/or fixating you and/or you have aggro on

[young flame]

Can't fine Drjay on the twitch client tho

[marble hemlock]

so if your nameplates do all of that, theres no reason to switch

[young flame]

TIL I have terrible nameplates

[marble hemlock]

if they dont, theres no reason to download someone elses, when you can just configure the ones youre already using to help you with any of those issues

all nameplate addons let you white-/blacklist debuffs and buffs, enable you to scale the size based on certain conditions like threat-level or whether theyre casting

[spring chasm]

plater e.g. has pretty good presets for important casts in dungeons

[lone junco]

When we talk about Ct value. Make sure the ep uptime is held.

[vestal wren]

i prefere a seperate addon for namplate aura tracking like ** fly plate buffs** or nameplate auras

[marble hemlock]

also a good option. it really comes down to preference

i like tidyplates

other people like plater

or threatplates

or standard nameplates with custom weakauras that anchor to them

plenty of options

[vestal wren]

best nameplate addon i found is nameplate kai for performance

if it comes to performance its kai > kui > platter > rest

[marble hemlock]

the only thing everyone should do is make sure that their nameplates are stacking, not overlapping

[vestal wren]

tho i modified kai a bit, so its not vanilla version

[strange python]

ElvUI nameplates actually trigger me in Tol Dagor

Since i can click on mobs that are a level below me

[vestal wren]

i rly like the mob coloring of kai

in dungeons/raids

[frosty violet]

@lone junco so when I mathed it out some time ago,

CT did 21.6% AP instantly and another 54% AP over 12 seconds
Envenom did 80% AP instantly

(Assuming 5 CP). What is the piece I'm missing? Even if you bleed them faster with Exsang it shouldn't add up to more

[marble hemlock]

yeah michee, thats an unfortunate side-effect that i dont think any nameplate can get rid off

[vestal wren]

if performance is no discussion use whatever you want tho

[marble hemlock]

i think plater has a range-restriction but nameplates clipping through walls or floors/ceilings isnt something you can get rid off

[strange python]

Performance as in FPS @vestal wren ?

[vestal wren]

yes and no

[strange python]

🤔

So dps and fps?

😄

[marble hemlock]

anyway, back to the original topic about whether to tab target on aoe or not, its really a combination of both

[vestal wren]

its cpu time

[marble hemlock]

usually you can work with tab-targetting fairly consistently, it even seems to prioritize mobs with higher health over mobs with lower health, or casters over melee

[spring chasm]

nameplates cant check LoS

[vestal wren]

e.g. as an example kai takes around 1/2 of the cpu time kui does

[marble hemlock]

atleast thats the feeling i got

[spring chasm]

blocked by API

so you cant hide them when theyre levels below

[noble verge]

just noticed that if i swap my weapons, my tooltip damages change by around 3%. Any idea why that is the case when on wowhead our abilities are supposed to only scale with attack power? (for the record, i have 395 wep in MH and 380 in OH)

[marble hemlock]

but you should make sure that youre precise in your mouse movement/clicking

[strange python]

I wonder how CPU heavy is the whole ElvUI

[marble hemlock]

playing osu with your mouse helps with that 😄

[vestal wren]

elv ui is quite bad for performance

but so is weakauras 😛

[marble hemlock]

i dont even think any addon is really so power hungry that it should s low down your PC

the only issue ive ever had with addons interfering with performance, was a weakaura that scanned combatlog every frame

[spring chasm]

well yea if you dont use sloot WAs

[marble hemlock]

like

[vestal wren]

if you have enough cpu power or dont run a high fps monitor it usually dont matter tho

[frosty violet]

The biggest feature I want from a nameplate is to make the nameplate smaller for mobs with significantly less health. When I'm multidotting I accidentally select mobs that die in a few seconds when I mean to select the big mobs

[marble hemlock]

the cc tracking WA i had tracked for 10 different CCs every frame, in the raid that lead to horrible lag

[ripe nimbus]

If an addon is slowing down ur PC u are on a Pentium 2. Me and fuu had this discussion before so I'm not gonna get into it again lol

[spring chasm]

that is not true

[marble hemlock]

almost every nameplate lets you do that deathshiver

[frosty violet]

I tried to find it on Elv and couldn't

[vestal wren]

btw. i found raven (very popular buff addon) beeing extremely bad for performance

[strange python]

@ripe nimbus WoW also runs on 1 core 😄

2018

[marble hemlock]

WAs can be incredibly hard on your CPU, but thats really the only one

i dont think any buff bar or nameplates or w/e are actually slowing your pc down

[ripe nimbus]

It runs on 2 actually. And in 8.1 will run multi thread

[strange python]

Since when does WoW run on 2 cores

[vestal wren]

wow is quite cpu heavy

but if you have enough cpu power you probably can care less about addon cpu time

[marble hemlock]

@frosty violet http://puu.sh/BROv0/277981f0f5.jpg

tidyplates lets you scale by health

[frosty violet]

low-health means low max hp or just enemies in execute range?

[marble hemlock]

but its not a "the less health, the smaller the bar" scaling, its just once they drop below a certain amount you can make them bigger/smaller

[frosty violet]

I was thinking more along the lines of "We just pulled 10 things, 3 of them have 1m hp and 7 of them have 100k max hp"

[marble hemlock]

you can also color them differently based on health if you want to

[frosty violet]

I want the 7 to be half size based on relative max hp

[marble hemlock]

as far as im aware theres no possiblity to track actual hp values, only percentages

[frosty violet]

I mean, my Elv nameplates show HP values on the nameplate, so I know it's possible

but I want it to be visually obvious for fast multidotting

[marble hemlock]

that has nothing to do with actual tracking though, its just the way the values are shown. but you cannot color a bar differently based on "this mob has 100% hp and 100k hp, this mob has 100% hp and 1mil hp, lets color them differentely"

[vestal wren]

you can

[ripe nimbus]

@strange python wow had always run on 2 physical cores and can use 2 hyper threading lanes. It's a game from 2004 not 1996 lol

[vestal wren]

but it would require you to change lua^^

[marble hemlock]

for enemies fuu? i know that you can do it for players, but enemies? im not sure about that

[frosty violet]

That's the piece I want to avoid, I could probably do it but it just feels like a problem that someone's solved before

So if someone knows a nameplate that does it, would be helpful

[vestal wren]

btw. direct x 12 optimization in 8.1 will be quite a breeze

[marble hemlock]

and it wouldnt really help you, since the moment you go up or down a key, those t hresholds might be different so your nameplates would show differently just based on that

[frosty violet]

I was thinking you would make the filter based on player hp

shrink the health bar size of mobs with less hp than the player

less max hp

[marble hemlock]

so having a size-scaling based on % is really the only "useful" thing

at least from my point of view

[ripe nimbus]

It a nice. 8.1 optimisation for multi threads is 🔥

[frosty violet]

Any mob with enough HP to survive a DoT would definitely have more HP than the player in dungeons

Most "AoE trash" has less

[vestal wren]

wemm its an improvement 🤷

[marble hemlock]

idk, i just know by name which mobs have higher health and which dont

but i dont think its possible to highlight (or fade out) nameplates of enemies that have less than, say, 200k hp

fading out mobs that have less than 20% hp however is certainly possible

[spring chasm]

the only real issue i have is Siege

where some non elites have giga HP

[marble hemlock]

yeah but you know their names, usually

its the wavebender, commanders and marksmen :<

[ripe nimbus]

Then use custom name plates and disable them for the mobs that's have low hp

Done

[marble hemlock]

so just use this

http://puu.sh/BROGR/6725d9a6c9.jpg

for those mobs

or the ones you dont wanna show

[lone junco]

@frosty violet likely the GC component.

It may not be a massive gain. But I got annoyed by the blind trust. So I looked into it myself.

When it comes down to the rotational specifics it may not work out.

[marble hemlock]

i think the biggest problem with the CT before exsang is the loss of rupture ticks

[lone junco]

The rupture is there. In st.

[marble hemlock]

so the slight damage gain over envenom that youre seeing, is most likely off-set by the damage loss in rupture

i mean its there, but even with pooling before the rupture>mut>mut>ct>exsang you lose out on 2 exsang rupture ticks

[lone junco]

Which. If the Ct is worth 12k ish. That's probably fine.

[marble hemlock]

i certainly agree that in some situations ct might be > envenom simply due to the fact that it scales better with certain stats than envenom does

but i dont think we've hit that point yet

[frosty violet]

That's a thought, CT gets value from haste AFAIK, but then again Envenom buff gets more auto applications from haste too.

[marble hemlock]

and while CT scales with haste and envenom doesnt, the subsequent auto-attacks do and having more haste would lead to more potential poison procs too, not to mention potential interactions with traits like double dose

[frosty violet]

Did you try simming to confirm that loss of envenom buff was worth it?

[lone junco]

I don't know how to sim micro changes. This would be prior to exang only without delaying anything. Likely in the first 20sec only. And also. Sim won't account for mob moving away from GC. Ct snap vs haste DP applications.

Anyway. Mostly Just a fun thought.

[marble hemlock]

ct snap vs haste dp applications+loss of exsang rupture ticks

but yeah, i agree that its definitely something that would be interesting to see the actual comparison

[lone junco]

I trust my intuition typically. I'm often wrong.

[marble hemlock]

i think most people would agree that the envenom seems a lot more likely to win out in that comparison, but it'd still be interesting to see by how much exactly

[lone junco]

Maybe on a boss drag you choose.

And the exang value in flat foot is only squeezing it into the 6sec for full GC.

Play is a bit awk as well.

[frosty violet]

I reserve judgement until I get some time to ask the simulator. When I change the APL to test these, I've often found that things I thought would make a big difference end up being small losses.

[lone junco]

But people made it sound like Ct is only 4K and env is 12

And. I run high haste still.

Cause we don't giga pull.

[frosty violet]

CT is a great skill to be sure, and their direct damage is comparable

[lone junco]

So a lust GC exang at 70% haste will make a diff.

I just want to see it a gain at the 40sec st range. Maybe even 1min.

New subject:

@marble hemlock Do you think fixed gear sets is good for the state of M+, or does it completely eliminate some classes due to secondary splits from aoe to st.

[marble hemlock]

i think blizzard believes that in order to have better balance, they need to force a singular gearset for m+ in order to collect data and then apply changes based on that data

i also think that no one realized that blizzard doesnt balance around m+

like

ever

so their justification for changing this is hamfisted at best, and i do think that swapping gear allowed for more diversity, not less

[lone junco]

SS was depressing for the rest of my group. Lol. Not mad it was nerfed.

[marble hemlock]

ss ditn get nerfed because it was so great for aoe though, it got nerfed because it was by far the strongest ST trait too

it still is absolutely insane compared to any other trait when it comes to aoe

so if that was the intended purpose, to nerf it for aoe, they failed

[lone junco]

True. The new ggg sim is clear. lol scent. 3ss to the end.

Maybe hps would be a better gauge of dropping one.

[marble hemlock]

so basically, id would be nice for almost all classes to switch between a singletarget and an aoe set for trash/bosses respectively

and especially healers would really appreciate being able to swap from dps to healing gear

for when they truly need the healing, and stick to dps gear for the rest

[lone junco]

Right. And I think summon stone to allow spec changes is bullshit.

[marble hemlock]

yeah

[lone junco]

Grats bypass

Outlaw giga. Sin st.

[marble hemlock]

its ridiculous to disallow gear-swapping but then have summoning stone be a thing

but hey, warlock didnt have enough unique utility yet, so theyre getting 10% stamina buff with 8.1 aswell

[frosty violet]

I didn't see any news on SS nerf, is that a thing?

[marble hemlock]

so for assa it would be quite signinificant actually, to be running something like 3xSS with crit/mastery gear for aoe, and swap into a haste/crit gear with 1ss/2dd for example

and im gonna assume it would be the same for most other specs

[lone junco]

@frosty violet just the previous nerfs.

[marble hemlock]

and "harder to balance" cant be the reason for not allowing this, when they literally dont balance m+ unless its really broken, and even then they nerf after the fact

[lone junco]

I was ticking 25k crits at 350ilvl. Now 12k ish.

[marble hemlock]

like the explosive orb situation in underrot or temple. it was like that on beta, everyone complained. everyone was talking about it for weeks prior to the first explosive week and how it would be a shitshow. but they didnt bother fixing it until NA had 12hrs to have to deal with that shit on live

so really the only reason they dont wanna have gearswaps in m+ is so the nifty tool they have for twitch that shows the characters equipment during MDI is actually useful

[lone junco]

Hahah. "Um. Our hud doesn't update when they swap"

[warm cove]

was there a nerf today? i sim lower today than yesterday

[lone junco]

No. There was a booger in the st apl for SS

Are you using nightly?

[warm cove]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/k1XbKG7Sz88wgaUtXWqQGr cant go higher than 16990 now it seems, but went above 17k the last few days i simmed

and not with the crit 370 ring either, but with the 365 vers one that now sims lower

[cobalt pelican]

there's variance regardless of iteration count, resimming nightly with no changes in gear is kind of futile

[noble verge]

Quick qustion: just noticed that if i swap my weapons, my tooltip damages change by around 3%. Any idea why that is the case when on wowhead our abilities are supposed to only scale with attack power? (for the record, i have 395 wep in MH and 380 in OH)

[spring chasm]

https://www.wowhead.com/news=281913/battle-for-azeroth-new-formula-for-calculating-ability-damage

[noble verge]

thanks 😃

[ripe tendon]

saw someone saying that ss is much better than scent of blood

but i have a 355 of both and scent comes out ahead acorrding to sims

[jaunty ginkgo]

anyone know if matters which hand you have a specific enchant on?

i.e. will it change dps output if I have quick nav on main hand and deadly on off?

and vice vers

[warm geode]

higher ilvl/mainhand put crit, offhand put hast for ST mastery for AoE

[vale helm]

I recently picked up an Assi Rogue as an alt and I'm liking it alot. One question tho, how good is the darkmoon deck actually? On herodamage, bloodmallet and my own sims it's showing as a 0.2% upgrade or even a downgrade vs a Azzerok's Heart + Permafrost-Encrusted Heart yet I see absolutely every rogue use it

[jaunty ginkgo]

I've had 2 trinkets drop from mythic uldir and they're both downgrades compared to fathoms

so it's pretty good

[vale helm]

Yet a downgrade to a 365 world boss trinket?

[spring chasm]

what scenario are you simming with which talents @ripe tendon

[paper bough]

i know simming is the answer but in general terms, what have you guys been doing when you find your gear at an awkward stage for m+ ie no SS traits on your 370+ azerite

wear the 340s and 355s or just suck it up and wear the 385s with ditb and shit

also what parameters should i use to get an accurate sim for m+

[next tendon]

Do you guys run poison bomb or CT for underrot keys?

[marble hemlock]

CT

[wheat zealot]

KR is the only pb dungeon imo

[mental fiber]

is there any info out there for hidden blades usage?

[marble hemlock]

temple, not KR

but yeah

KR is kind of a mixed bag, id say this week PB > CT for KR, in forti weeks id go CT tho

frankly this week im playing PB in almost all dungeons since im the orb-slave

[wheat zealot]

Yeah, i feel like i just dont have enough cp to handle orbs and keep ct up

[marble hemlock]

@paper bough the answer is almost always "play SS"

scent of blood/archive might be competitive at much higher ilvls though

[runic maple]

there isnt much difference between sin and subs performance against zul hc right? guild wants me to go sub but I beg to differ :p

[marble hemlock]

so if youre running 340 ss and got 385 archive, the archive might lead to better results, but its hard to pinpoint where exactly the threshold really is

[karmic ingot]

I’ve been running PB almost exclusively in dungeons for the last 2 weeks simply to be lazy. PB ends up being low on overall damage (3-4%), but my damage doesn’t seem to be much worse than with CT since I’m getting more energy from rupture earlier on pulls and getting SoB stacking up earlier as well.

[paper bough]

what sim settings for m+

[lone junco]

@runic maple heroic Zul can not cleave crags well

[marble hemlock]

to sim traits?

[lone junco]

They die too fast.

[marble hemlock]

you shouldnt really sim aoe for traits, cause its very unreliable

[karmic ingot]

Actually, I should rephrase that. In general, I think I get better performance out of PB. I probably suck at playing CT though.

[marble hemlock]

yeah, CT increases the difficulty and lowers the room for error on aoe, so unless you have enough crit to be able to sustain CT properly, and get more comfortable with the rotation in general, PB will most likely yield better results

[lone junco]

H Zul a good 3G open. Then boss tunnel. And vanish g the crusher + Zul.

[karmic ingot]

I also mostly run with PUGs. Mostly running 9-10 keys pulling 1 pack at a time. Definitely not the type of environment for CT to shine.

[lone junco]

It's not bad tho. Mostly due to tank drag.

[karmic ingot]

CT for tank drag you mean?

[marble hemlock]

yeah, CT starts getting better and better the more mobs you get per pull

which is why for example in a dungeon like temple, where you never pull more than 3-4 mobs, PB becomes pretty competitive

[lone junco]

If your tank never settles then pb just gets lost as well and that will never show in a sim.

[warm sable]

3g opener realy ?

[lone junco]

For Zul?

[warm sable]

Ouu

I do that but on 3 different targets

Krusher Hexer and Zull

[marble hemlock]

tbf, tank moving the mobs doesnt really matter for PB nowadays

[karmic ingot]

I run MA/TB for heroic Zul. I rupture anything that’s in melee range and not almost dead and then just tunnel boss. It’s been working pretty well for me lately.

[marble hemlock]

with a 2sec duration the tank cant even pull the mobs out of it fast enough before its already over anyway

[karmic ingot]

@warm sable that’s what Noobe meant. You don’t GGG a single mob ever.

[lone junco]

@warm sable Open is hexer. Crusher. Zul. 3 separate g. Then vendetta with a vanish refresh on Zul.

3G is never on the same target back to back to back.

[round harbor]

I find myself running pbomb alot on weeks like this where we can't chain pull and pulls usually arnt more than a few mobs

[lone junco]

When we pull small m+. 4t 20 is probably more ideal. But that is so overwhelmingly 3ss, it's not even funny.

[warm sable]

Do u spam mutilate on Zul or do FoK ?

[lone junco]

I FOK at about 4t.

So when they crags are in

[round harbor]

Damir u talking heroic right?

[warm sable]

Yea same they die 2 quick

Yea mythic is sub ....

[lone junco]

I ran sub tornado one time on heroic. Was worthless.

[round harbor]

Just checking

[lone junco]

Got one round.

[karmic ingot]

I use FoK when crawgs spawn so I can get DP on them and tab rupture to get more energy.

[lone junco]

Tbh. I FOK the crags for tricks more than cps.

[round harbor]

The real trick is playing sub sectec in heroic lol

[karmic ingot]

I hit tricks for crawg spawn too.

I think I should go slum through some M+ running tornado to get some practice in for M Zul. My guild will be starting on him next week.

[lone junco]

Tbh. Lfr Zul is fine. Nothing ever dies.

[karmic ingot]

Oh yeah? Maybe I’ll try that.

[lone junco]

Waves and waves of shit.

[karmic ingot]

lol

[lone junco]

At first I was confused how tornado worked. I was mashing storm as well. Derp.

But the storms are super limp if they don't get full cps.

[karmic ingot]

Yeah, like you, I tried it once in heroic and it was a total shit show.

[lone junco]

Once i realized you just mash evisc 4 times it cleared that up.

Imagine tomb host with that shit.

[karmic ingot]

Me not being used to an awkward ability + everyone padding on adds = shit DPS.

[royal lantern]

you just need too have enough energy for the 4x evisc after you used tornado, thats the only´´complicated´´ part about the talent

[lone junco]

I mean. If the warriors and dh gib the trash in 2 sec, then it becomes a st 2t fight.

[paper bough]

what parameters for m+ simming
6boss 40s patchwerk?

anyone?

[proper zealot]

Mhmm, and turn buffs off.

[sick eagle]

At how many target should fan of knives be used?

[buoyant ember]

3 or 4+

[strange python]

@sick eagle #tc-updates

Sim

or check herodamage

[stray root]

is it just me or does anyone else also feel like they are more energy starved since reset?

havent swapped gear or talents but feel way more energy starved in m+ this week

[shy blaze]

i've felt the same but I honestly just thought it was me

[proper zealot]

@sick eagle 3+ when you need to (re-)apply poisons, 4+ otherwise.

[shy blaze]

on higher M+ keys (12+) on aoe pulls is re-applying garrote worth it or just keep up rupture?

[proper zealot]

You don't worry about Garrote outside of your first three (from Subterfuge) with >5 targets. You just maintain Rupture for the Energy regeneration through Venomous Wounds, and use Crimson Tempest as your finisher.

[shy blaze]

thanks. thats what I thought but wanted to confirm

[remote kraken]

eyy guys - do you wait with 2nd exang 15 sec for Galecallers? is it worth?

[drifting elbow]

u dont delay

unless u know that u r not getting another cd use

[jaunty ginkgo]

think I've just found a bug but not sure if intended

when you break stealth by using a damaging ability it triggers subterfuge

but when you unstealth yourself it doesn't trigger it

[drifting elbow]

its not bug in itself

if some ability hits u while being stealth, it can negate sub buff period cuz u r not doing anything than running

[jaunty ginkgo]

seems a bit silly

[drifting elbow]

🤷

[remote kraken]

thanks

[strange python]

why is it silly

[jaunty ginkgo]

well because it's still breaking stealth

and you don't get the buff

[candid oracle]

what is i that decides wether TB or Exsang is better?

[marble hemlock]

www.raidbots.com

[violet yew]

Personal preference too. If for some reason you don't like/can't use exsang then you'll get more use out of tb same for the inverse.

[strange python]

Only if the dps difference is little

[violet yew]

The difference for me has been miniscule lately so I just play exsang because I enjoy it more.

[candid oracle]

thx

[dense wadi]

I've got a quick question. Maybe one of you can help? Is there any site with Macros for our class?

[strange python]

wowhead has a few

[dense wadi]

I've looked at those. There are very little there. But ty for the reply!

[violet yew]

I dunno if the ravenholdt guides have them but I can't think of anything that would be useful. Focus tricks, shadowdance shadowstrike etc are fairly obvious.

[dense wadi]

Yeah I checked there. They do not have anything on there site. But ty!

Is it possible to macro in Vial with other attack's?

or do you have to make a modifier macro?

[safe matrix]

No

[violet yew]

I think that's gcd limited

[dense wadi]

Ok , That's what I was thinking. I tried it every way I knew how. LOL! Thanks!

[violet yew]

You could macro to feint and spam it to use both

[safe matrix]

There aren't really a whole lot of macros you need as assassination

Maybe some mouseover stuff

And cast tricks at focus target 🤷

[strange python]

Only macro I use is for redirect on tank

and thats it lol

[tired thistle]

What is the new Sap macro that actually works

[proper zealot]

This is the best macro I have:

#showtooltip
/cast [talent:6/2] Toxic Blade
/cast [talent:6/3] Exsanguinate

[strange python]

oh yeah and I use that

[dense wadi]

Yeah I use a lot of mouseover macro's

I do like startattack macro's as well

[tired thistle]

So i have a Trait question just got a the Honorbound Chest at 370 and have DD on it But i dont know what to take Either Heed My Call or Gutripper they sim out the same since i already have a 385 Heed on my Helmet

So is gutripper worth it in the long run or just another stack of Heed?

[strange python]

Sim it?

[tired thistle]

I did

[shut basalt]

If it aims the same flip a coin

[tired thistle]

They sin the Same

[dense wadi]

He said they sim about the same.

[strange python]

And the result was?

Heed is better for AoE

[tired thistle]

No literally both 1.1%

THe Same

[proper zealot]

I'd stack Heed My Call.

[tired thistle]

Thats what i assumed

[dense wadi]

Take heed cause it is good for aoe as well and gut is not. imo

[tired thistle]

Just didnt know if Gutripper would be better

[dense wadi]

If they sim that close, I'd take heed to get the benefit from the aoe as well.

[tired thistle]

Sounds like a plan

Thanks guys

[proper zealot]

Sap + Pick Pocket is another good macro, but not at all relevant for any content like raiding or Mythic+. Pick Pocketing also sucks in BfA, so...

No one is allowed to make gold, ever.

[violet yew]

EVER!

[proper zealot]

I used to make so much gold just by playing in Legion. Now my gold doesn't move. : /

[violet yew]

Just buy tokens

[proper zealot]

Oh, I don't need more gold, I'm just sad that I'm not making any just from playing. :p

I still have over gold cap right now.

But it'll slowly go down over time.

[golden mulch]

Hey guys does anybody have the unitid of explosive orbs?

[violet yew]

It's classed as a totem apparently if you are trying to make a targeting macro

[golden mulch]

i try to make the nameplates look different with elvui stylefilter

[violet yew]

https://www.wowhead.com/affix=13/explosive#comments:id=2626115

There is some info in those comments but it's mostly regarding tidyplates

[golden mulch]

Yeah think it should work just naming them "Explosvies"

[slim olive]

You can also use this weakaura https://wago.io/explosiveorbs

Works ok

[stray root]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[full vigil]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[fathom wyvern]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.

[violet yew]

!spam

[fathom wyvern]

Best talents for lower m+ where shit dies fast?

[violet yew]

Outlaw

[fathom wyvern]

dont have swords or something

only daggers

so what talents?

[tidal jetty]

i would say sub if things die fast

[fathom wyvern]

bolstering tho

[tidal jetty]

deeper strat, dark shadow, sectec

if it dies fast enough for assa to not-be-worth, you can ignore bolstering 😛

[fathom wyvern]

for assa? as the dh in grp will nuke smaller ads and bolster one big

[safe matrix]

what level of key, sin tends to scale with difficulty when their dots actually have time to stick

[tidal jetty]

and sub is a pretty good counter to bolster anyway

[violet yew]

Just play outlaw

[fathom wyvern]

i dont have swords

cant play outlaw with daggers

[violet yew]

Snek you can.

Only need one anyways

Do a wq or buy a 330 off ah

[spring chasm]

only do shrine keys

then you just auto play sub

[safe matrix]

but typically for sin you do 2210032 for m+

if you say adds are just dying ASAP though then PB may be better

[lunar tangle]

hello

[karmic ingot]

Why is shrine auto play sub?

Also, running the standard M+ talents with PB is just fine for lower keys. Your triple garrote opener will still wreck packs.

[spring chasm]

Bolstering Shrine

you have some packs with pretty hard hitting guys, like the ritualist

you cant aoe because youll bolster the shit out of everything

and you need good single target damage to deal with those specific mobs

sub is the best at both

[karmic ingot]

I still ran it as Assassination this week. Didn’t have any trouble with bolstering.

[strange python]

ofcs

its tyran

[karmic ingot]

Yeah, that’s kinda my thought process.

I wouldn’t say the run went well though since it took like 50 minutes. The tank and the other 2 DPS were pretty bad for that run.

7k DPS survival hunter in a +9 😦

[fathom wyvern]

so how do i properly aoe as sub?

[strange python]

Im just doing a daily +10 a week and not playing until 8.1

@fathom wyvern Go in #subtlety and ask there

[karmic ingot]

I like running M+ though.

I joined a new guild recently and they’re much more active in M+. Definitely better than pugging 100% of keys.

[fathom wyvern]

oh my bad, wrong channel

[lone junco]

there is a sub guide.

and I keep up with dhs as SS. so w/e if they kill stuff too quickly, run harder keys, or enjoy

[frosty gyro]

I was already doing really good as SS and I didn't even realize you can restealth out of shadowmeld on trash 🤔

[proper zealot]

Yeah, it's like a poor man's Vanish. Just make a macro and it works really well.

[frosty gyro]

Doesn't work with a macro I don't think?

Maybe a castsequence would work

[proper zealot]

Pretty sure it does. At least it did on my Druid, with Prowl.

[tall widget]

guys is it worth to swap 370 laser matrix for 355 SS ?

[frosty gyro]

For M+? Yes

[tall widget]

ye for m+

[frosty gyro]

@proper zealot just /cast Shadowmeld /cast Stealth 2 lines?

[proper zealot]

Should just be able to go:

#showtooltip
/cast Shadowmeld
/cast Stealth

[frosty gyro]

Yeah that doesn't work on Rogue

idk why

[proper zealot]

And that'll work as long as you aren't moving.

Oh, that's super weird.

[frosty gyro]

My Shadowmeld has been that macro the whole expac I have to manually hit stealth every time

Although if I just make it a castsequence and spam the button maybe that will work better 🤔

[proper zealot]

I'm going to go check and see that it still works on my Druid then. I shall report my findings!

[civic forge]

equal ilvl in mythic+, azerokk's Resonating Heart (motherload trinket) vs Lion's Guile (doom howl trinket). thoughts?

[frosty gyro]

I'd use the heart personally although really you'd have to guess

[proper zealot]

@frosty gyro So it works perfectly fine on my Druid... I'm sitting there in Cat Form, outside of Prowl, and using my macro pops Shadowmeld and puts me into Prowl.

[frosty gyro]

Well I hit

#showtooltip
/cast Shadowmeld
/cast Stealth

And it breaks me out of stealth apparetly?

Probably just rogue stealth being buggy like it is every expac with things randomly breaking stealth

Blizzard never fixes it

[proper zealot]

That sucks, man. It works perfectly fine on my Druid, so you'd think it would work the same way for Rogues. : /

[frosty gyro]

Yeah just went to hit a dummy hit the macro and I shadowmeld but don't stealth

Spamming a castsequence works 🤔 I wonder why just having them back to back doesn't work they're both instant

[proper zealot]

What does a cast sequence macro look like?

I don't remember off the top of my head.

[frosty gyro]

/castsequence reset=X ability, ability

[proper zealot]

Ah, so that allows you to just mash the button?

[frosty gyro]

Yeah

TBH could probably mash it without the castsequence since it will skip shadowmeld due to cd

[proper zealot]

Yeah, that would make sense.

[civic palm]

Can't normally macro things that are on GCD.

[frosty gyro]

Was just thinking castsequence would be slightly faster since it doesn't have to do the cd check on shadowmeld buyt I have no idea how the backend code works

Yeah you can what?

Also neither of those are gcd

[hardy veldt]

anyone have the link to that one google doc that shows openers based on spec?

[civic palm]

You can Shadowmeld while GCD is current?

[hardy veldt]

want to make sure im doing exang opener correct, wanna try it out

[civic palm]

SIN GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ FAQ IN PINS-->

[hardy veldt]

it was different than that one

[frosty gyro]

Yeah shadowmeld is off gcd

This is a fancy one

#showtooltip [combat] Shadowmeld; Stealth
/stopAttack [stealth]
/cast [combat,nostealth] Shadowmeld
/cast [nocombat] Stealth
/stopAttack [stealth]

[hardy veldt]

and i believe it threw out the vendetta in another spot

[civic palm]

Could have just been out-of-date.

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[frosty gyro]

What are your traits TB vs Exsang, Sub vs MA and how many SS do you have

[hardy veldt]

1 ss, 1 uldir, one rupture.

[civic palm]

Also, I Shadowmeld then Stealth all the time, dunno why it's kicking you out of Stealth that iiiis weird.

[frosty gyro]

It's not shadowmeld then stealth

it's hitting 1 button and getting both

Gotta read the whole conversation

[civic palm]

Yeah I get the macro.

[frosty gyro]

You're saying you have a 1 button macro that shadowmelds you then stealths you with 1 press that works all the time?

@hardy veldt are you using Sub or MA and Exsang or TB

[hardy veldt]

sub and exang

[frosty gyro]

And you want a ST opener?

Or M+

[hardy veldt]

used to TB - but with the 385 galecallers that dropped, think exang might be better

sims around the same, so why not try

and st

the ravenholdt one will work, just interested in why they vendetta so soon

[civic palm]

all of the time no, especially not when moving.

[frosty gyro]

g>r>g>ve(gc macro)>m>r>ex>m>m>e>m>m>e>m>m>e>m>va>g>en>g>r>m>m>e>m>m>r

if you have hero you might be able to slip in an extra mut or two in there somewhere

[proper zealot]

@civic palm You can't Shadowmeld while moving.

[frosty gyro]

But you're saying you sometimes push 1 button in combat and go into shadowmeld and then stealth?

[civic palm]

Yeah I know.

Lemme find some monster AI real fast.

[frosty gyro]

you can just use a dummy

[hardy veldt]

perfect. thank you!

finally, should i be saving exang for my galecallers? (wasting 15 seconds)

or just exang on cd, galecallers on cd?

[frosty gyro]

depends on fight length which you can't usually predict so just do w/e

[hardy veldt]

understood

[frosty gyro]

I guess I'll explain

Basically your vanish+vendetta comes back up if you save for gc at like 2:25

[civic palm]

dummy doesn't share AI with mob AI, it's similar but also not a situation that matters.

[frosty gyro]

But if you use exsang on CD you have to wait for like 2:45

[civic palm]

If it's only an issue on a dummy then it's just weird but uninteresting.

[hardy veldt]

wait an extra 20 seconds, but get one more exang in right?

[frosty gyro]

Not exactly

Again fight length is what matters

If you have a fight that only lasts 2:40 or 4:40 you aren't going to get a 2nd/3rd combo if you are using exsang on CD

But if yhe fight lasts like 20-30 seconds longer than those you will

Raidbots/SimC use 5 and 6 min parses which is why using exsang on CD shows up as better

But it really just depends on the fight you have to judge for yourself

[civic palm]

So, hitting;

#showtooltip
/cast Shadowmeld
/cast Stealth

triggered SM in combat, hitting it again put me in stealth, no movement.

[frosty gyro]

Yeah but we were talking about hitting it 1 time and it doing both

Because that's what it used to do

[civic palm]

Right but you can't do that anymore.

You can mash it fast enough to get both though

[frosty gyro]

It hasn't since BFA maybe they changed it in legion idk I quit halfway through Legion

[civic palm]

Just not too much or Stealth is cast again.

[frosty gyro]

Well yeah but that wasn't the point...

[civic palm]

I do think that this is one of the weird ones that should cast in sequence.

Probably some potato Shadowmeld issue.

[frosty gyro]

Just add a nostealth condition to casting stealth 🤔

mash away

[civic palm]

Yeah, ezpz.

[frosty gyro]

Or actually that doesn't work because nostealth checks shadowmeld hm

[civic palm]

hrmmm

BLIZZARD PLEASE

[frosty gyro]

Might be able to do it with stance conditions idk if shadowmeld is a stance

[civic palm]

Can you make a macro check for a buff? I think Shadowmeld is its' own dumb thing.

[strange python]

Dont think so

[frosty gyro]

Did they change the APL again?

I went up 400 DPS for no reason after going down 200 DPS for no reason the last time they changed it

[somber moon]

Well they probably fixed what they messed up for one

[frosty gyro]

I wonder if I can make it into the 18k club next week 🤔

[strange python]

2 weeks no upgrade club EZ

[keen hound]

18k sim?

5m patch single target? that's pretty thicc 😂

[strange python]

😬

[lunar tangle]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2Ho3s97mXHaAVuEGhVQaee

is this set up good for raiding?

[proper zealot]

Looks fine, though I'd run Cheat Death over Elusiveness. Personal preference, though.

Do you know that Subterfuge is better for you than Master Assassin?

[lunar tangle]

yeah]

thats what i am running

im trying to get into raiding since ive been running m+ mostly

but want to get back into raiding so any tips

would be great

[royal lantern]

listen too your raid leader, ask wath addons your guild is using, look up wich fights drop items you want so you can bonus roll on them, look up the fights on your own too be prepared

and be ready for a shitton of wipes if you want too do mythic

[frosty gyro]

@keen hound I'm at 17.8k patch ST 5min right now

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/56W7LpFvDypN373Z2oXCor

[keen hound]

That's pretty thicc

[frosty gyro]

Yep

[lunar tangle]

wtf

lol

there is like 9 ilevel difference between us and the dps diff is huge

[civic palm]

Just drop 2min off the SIM and get that 18k 👌

[proper zealot]

Not bad, considering I don't raid Mythic at all.
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6QhXL6u4Y5MraRwiN9aakT

[civic palm]

M+ does wonders, and sockets.

Get more sockets.

[proper zealot]

Yup. I have seven sockets. : )

I wanna gem and enchant for Mastery, but I don't want single-target or raids to be Hell.

[civic palm]

Yeaaaaaaaah

[candid wraith]

370 Deadeyes or 385 Electro jar?

jar sims higher but bloodmallet and hero dmg put deadeyes above it

[quasi pewter]

Own sim always most accurate

[candid wraith]

alright

[fading spade]

Top Gear sims on raidbots is a wonderful tool. Especially when trying to combo trinkets @candid wraith

[vale helm]

How do you guys gem (to the people that do both m+ and a bit of raiding)? Not sure if I should gem crit for a good balance or just go haste and deal with being a bit less effective in m+

[fading spade]

I always gem for my highest secondary stat

[vale helm]

Yes but it's different in m+ vs raids

[fading spade]

For me that's usually haste. It's never a bad thing to have

If you're worried about min max to that degree then get 2 sets of jewelery

[vale helm]

Not really looking to min max. More trying to drag down as little as possible on my alt :p

But eh I'll just go haste gems then :p

[fading spade]

Honestly in m+ 80 extra mastery wont make or break you. Even in cleave

The bigger things for m+ is azerite traits.

2 SS and maybe a Scent is a good setup if you want good cleave

[proper zealot]

It depends on how many sockets you have. It can add up.

Switching my seven sockets from Haste to Mastery, along with my ring enchants, would make a noticeable difference.

Even more of a difference in raid, because it would affect Reorigination Array.

[wary reef]

Could you not balance it out a bit, raids tend to have adds so the additional mastery wouldn't hurt

[proper zealot]

You could, sure. Mastery is still good for single-target, too, it's just that Mastery is way better for AoE and that Assassination with low amounts of Haste feels bad for single-target.

[civic palm]

Due to ROA mastery is poking its' head up > _>

and even the seemingly high crit rates > _>

[proper zealot]

I think that's the first time I haven't seen Versatility at the bottom. 😮

[civic palm]

Just get more crit, hahaha.

That was with 7ROA as well, have to redo it > _>

[proper zealot]

Well, either get more Crit or drop the Versatility I have. ; )

[civic palm]

😄

ROA8

Get more Haste Want more Haste

ezpz

[proper zealot]

How do you paste in like that? Without a link. : /

[civic palm]

on windows 10 you can use the snipping tool shortcut;

WIN+SHIFT+S, box what you want, paste into Discord

[fading spade]

7 sockets? Jesus. I only have 2. Lmao

[civic palm]

Yeah I only have two as well, what peasants we are.

[proper zealot]

I've been relatively lucky with gear so far. I was going to say that I don't get much in the way of Warforged/Titanforged and that I get sockets instead, but I have 395 legs, so that wouldn't be terribly accurate. : S

[civic palm]

I started the expansion with like... 8 WF'd pieces, nothing now though 👌

[proper zealot]

Slightly out of date.

@civic palm Thanks for letting me know about the Windows 10 snipping tool. : )

[earnest hedge]

So why is Sub performing better than sin these days?

[civic palm]

It's getting removed in the Oct. update IIRC but replaced with a better Screenshot feature.

Cheese, empowers both sandwiches and parses.

[earnest hedge]

Cheese on what though? I thought zul was the only fight you could really cheese in mythic

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/19/#dataset=90

This seems to point towards sub being the 4th best performing spec while sin is 9th

[civic palm]

That's... not really a difference at all, 2pt difference?

w/e

[flint swift]

You’re not the syzygy from RuneScape are you?

[hard cove]

not a fan of the m+ affixes this week not gonna lie

have only managed 1 13 in time this week

and many many waycrests that have went so badly xD

[strange python]

lads

which weapon should i enchant with haste

or doesn't it matter

[hard cove]

main hand

[strange python]

k

[hard cove]

off hand with deadly

[strange python]

ye, that's how i have it

sick

do you guys vendetta on the lift in taloc mythic

or or just use it when you get off it

[hard cove]

i use it at start

[tall dagger]

opener and closer

[hard cove]

and at bottom with bl

[strange python]

ye

ty

any tricks for the spread/stack mechanic

or is there nothing much we can do

[hard cove]

not really

[strange python]

cool

[hard cove]

best thing on that fight is cloacking the sanguin crap

[strange python]

ye

[hard cove]

so you can keep dpsing xD

[strange python]

that's what i do

[hard cove]

good times

[strange python]

the lift triggers me a bit

[tall dagger]

Does SS stack?

[strange python]

either our tanks suck or i have to go on teh blood too much to hit the slimes

[hard cove]

the damage does

[tall dagger]

ok cool

[hard cove]

but not the extra combo points

but its not worth stacking them outside of m+ imo

there are better triats for raids

[tall dagger]

SO, Double Archive would be beteter in raids?

[proper zealot]

@strange python @hard cove It doesn’t actually matter which weapon enchant goes where, just use your two highest-simming secondary stats.

[strange python]

Im gonna be running into Mythic Uldir as a trial next week. Done up to Zek'voz., but there my experience ends.
Do you fine fellas have any tips for Zek ? Gearing, talents, whatever tips ya got.

[hard cove]

i usually just go full single target for zekvoz

[strange python]

Got 95%> avg logs on hc. So I got the basic

[hard cove]

and use it to make sure we push before 3rd add wave without bloodlust

so we can keep bl for last phase with orbs for sick damage

[strange python]

Any focus at all on the small fuckers that spawn or just focus boss?

[safe matrix]

I mean heroic zek isn't really like mythic zek

[strange python]

Making sure dots are up when we switch to CCd adds

[hard cove]

id say dot the casters

and switch if its required

but for my team usually cleave and beams are enough

[safe matrix]

Cloak doesn't get rid of roiling, but it'll make you immune to the floor zone, so you should use it then to not drop a cloud into the middle of the raid

[hard cove]

yeah

[safe matrix]

And spread for eyebeam

[hard cove]

use cloak and run into the darkness

ez clap for placing rolling

[civic palm]

Eyebeam is like 3x as fast on Mythic as well.

[safe matrix]

Basically, don't do stuff that'll wipe your raid

^

And it hurts

[civic palm]

Veryly.

[hard cove]

yeh it will 1 shot 3-4 people if you dont spread

its good times all round tbh

[safe matrix]

You have half a second to react so you have to pre spread

[hard cove]

do i wanna run 1 SS trait for vectis btw ?

i feel like it would be a slight dps increase with the adds

[safe matrix]

Eh

[hard cove]

atm i have 1 ss 1 DD and 1 archives for my vectis set up

[safe matrix]

You take tb on vectis

[civic palm]

Could just use TB and dump on the adds.

[safe matrix]

It lines up with the add spawn

[rocky notch]

is vectis on farm?

[hard cove]

no progress

[rocky notch]

then yeah tb the add

ss is pretty whatever

[hard cove]

im guessing i wanna toxic blade then ?

[strange python]

Ohh talking about TB, legit never used it. Im guessing use on cds ye?

[hard cove]

and just use it for the add every time

[rocky notch]

you can tb vectis on pull

first add will die

[hard cove]

wtf is tb btw ?

[rocky notch]

just dot it

[hard cove]

toxic blade

yeh

ofc

nvm

i usually run toxic blade anyway

for like every fight so far

usually i use exanguinate on hc fettid though

coz bl @ 50% + exanguinate with assass burst is kinda silly on that boss

[strange python]

Any specific traits that pair good with TB? Dose maybe?

[hard cove]

atm without my shrouded i have 1 DD 1 PW and 1 archive

i kind of like poison wire

[humble carbon]

its all about lazer matrix and double dose

[hard cove]

gives me some nice cheap envenoms quit often

lazer matrix + archive ?

[humble carbon]

why

[hard cove]

or just lazer matrix

[humble carbon]

u only need 1

for reo array

[hard cove]

ok

so i wanna get rid of archive helm and use the chest from ghuun then yeh?

[strange python]

Sim it

[humble carbon]

i mean for sin i think archive helm sims slightly higher st

[hard cove]

well im only simming 15.7k atm

rerolled fairely recently

[humble carbon]

but lazer isnt far behind and its better aoe

[hard cove]

so still working on my gear xD

so i need to get lazer for m+ ?

[humble carbon]

but i would sim and use the best talents u have

[hard cove]

or just go 3x shrouded ?

[strange python]

its not such a simple answer

Some traits will outsim ss if its a big ilvl diff

Just sim urself and check herodamage

[hard cove]

yeah i have been

but been finding in my runs the 3 ss traits tend to make me finnish higher on overall

but it is at the cost of some of my boss damage

[humble carbon]

idk i just use the best i got

i like ss a lot tho

[hard cove]

coz 2 of my ss traits are on 340 gear xD

[strange python]

I run archive + 2SS but only because archive is 30ilvl higher

[hard cove]

ok so i can run archive helm + 2x ss then for m+

[strange python]

no

please read

[hard cove]

yeah i have 370 archive helm and 340 ss helm

[strange python]

Yes but its also because my other SS is 370

[hard cove]

i mean i have poison wire on 370 shoulders

[lone junco]

i have a bunch of 370. but 3ss is best by far for me.

340 ss that is.

thats what sims are for.

385s may beat 340s from raw agi and or hps

[hard cove]

what are you guys running in higher keys poison bomb or crimson tempest

[lone junco]

depends.

[hard cove]

ive been running poison bomb recently since i got a team

and its been going decent

[lone junco]

but I run CT. might try pb for explosive due to st env

[hard cove]

but i run with bm hunter + dh

so they do all the aoe xD

[lone junco]

wot

gl

[hard cove]

what do you mean ? xD

its been going well tbh

we just formed this week

and have already cleared 12's and 13's

might not sound all that great but considering before hand in pugs i was lucky to do 9s in time xD

so it can only get better from here 😛

[strange python]

Been running CT almost all weeks so far. I have a warlock in my maingroup so I gear more towards a mastery/crit build. I think its better on bolstering aswell, smooth dmg on all targets while the other dps focus prio targets.
At around 1.4k r.io (if that makes my opinion carry any weight)

When it comes to trinkets in raid, you guys fancy the Galecaller at all?

[gentle yarrow]

So is stacking DD best for raid progression?

[strange python]

Try simming it, impossible to know when we got zero info about your gear

[grave trail]

How exactly do i sim it?

do i have to do it twice

i wanna know if stacking dd instead of ss is better for my gear

15% haste and 20% crit

[strange python]

I dunno if theres a "simming guide" in the stickys

but take a look here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnnpUCvbxVs&t=285s

[grave trail]

Ok thanks

[strange python]

Simc addon

Raidbots.com

Info from simc -> raidbots -> Top gear -> select what ever trait/trinket/off-set/enchants etc

Would prob recommend doing Patchwerk 1 target 4 or 5

1 target - 4 or 5 minutes*

[grave trail]

so i ran the sims

and double dose stack is better than ss

with the gear i have at least.

100 dps different

from ss

[lean coral]

dd usually wins single target

ss better in multi

[karmic ingot]

DD is typically the strongest single target trait, although not by much.

[strange python]

quick question how much haste is too much

I can get to 30% in raid. Have gale callers boon and is it too much with 30% or is there no limit or what

I have all trinkets except dead eye spyglass

at 370+

I also have fathoms

anyone can answer me before I do this raid?

cuz I was going to bring my haste to 40% base

[zealous lily]

you should be able to model this pretty well just using raidbots

[strange python]

ok

raidbots tells me a crit mastery 380 ring is best

but haste sims highest which confuses em

[zealous lily]

if it's way better than your other rings then it will be best

check your stat weights also

[rose oyster]

From what ive seen written. People are going CT, Rupture on 3-4 mobs for energy regen and CT

[zealous lily]

like these are my stat weights: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5T3CTWczPWLqSRaRCFXYGa

[velvet kernel]

depends how fast shit dies @rose oyster

oops

[zealous lily]

haste is 2.31, highest... vers is 2.04, lowest.

and a lot of the time for sin there won't be that big of a drop off with haste like it does with the other specs in which it goes off a cliff to become really bad

it's not as good in aoe but for ST more haste gonna be more better for forseeable future

[velvet kernel]

rn it looks like haste is getting better with more haste

[rose oyster]

Those stat weights for 5 mobs at 40 sec or patchwork 5 min? Depends what youre trying to achieve

[velvet kernel]

6 mobs at 40 sec

the ones he linked are for st

but they are his

not yours or mine 😄

[rose oyster]

Didn't say they were mine or yours.

[harsh glacier]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/xknpAJTZbDJxzKqYgZtyaF

nearly in the 17k club

need me some weapons

[south basin]

I feel I'm simming really low for my ilvl lmao

but my weapons are pretty good

trinkets are if not bis, close to bis

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/v7S5EeVsKCkfZbShbQg98J

[harsh glacier]

you have no archive/laser matrix and low array stacks

raidbots takes that into account

[south basin]

I need to focus my azerite pieces then?

[harsh glacier]

if you're raiding, yeah

for m+ you probably sim fine

[south basin]

will I need separate pieces for M+ and raiding?

[harsh glacier]

your pieces right now are fine for m+

[south basin]

so I will grind dat raiding azerite set

[harsh glacier]

but not good for raiding, cause you need an archive or laser matrix to activate the reorigination array

[south basin]

tyty

[harsh glacier]

np

[lunar tangle]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/q32Xv7RTKy36c9BDb4eFTF is this good enough for mythic raiding???

[civic palm]

360 is enough for the beginning of Mythic Uldir so long there are no slackers.

[lunar tangle]

do you have any tips you could give me on upgrading my gear?

like anything i could change here and there ?

that would up my dps?

[civic palm]

Nah everything is fine, just make sure you are chasing the right stats.

There's nothing very low item level or anything.

Got another 370 chest?

SS isn't very good for raiding but better than most other things.

[harsh glacier]

idk ss is great on some fights

like vectis

and zek

[lunar tangle]

by the "right stats" what do you mean

[civic palm]

It's fine in some places but that's 2 out of 8 bosses. Like I said it's better than most things, but there might be a better option.

[harsh glacier]

its good on mythrax and ghuun too

[civic palm]

uhhuh

[lunar tangle]

i do have another 370 chest but its either poison wire or filthy trans

[civic palm]

Nah keep SS.

Over that.

[harsh glacier]

ss also makes your opener better

[lunar tangle]

as i figured :p

if im able to get another dd that would be good no?

[civic palm]

Opener is only a part of the equation.

Another Archive might work as well.

[harsh glacier]

dd would be better than ss most bosses yeah

[lunar tangle]

i do have an archive but its a normal piece is that fine?

[harsh glacier]

370 ss would be better than 340 archive if thats what youre asking

[lunar tangle]

no a 355 one

[civic palm]

Yeah, 355 archive might be better for Taloc/Mother.

[harsh glacier]

yeah possibly

probly sim yourself with it

[civic palm]

It's just about seeing where you can abuse Vanish+SS

and I would argue that taking another Archive and going TB is better for Vectis.

[harsh glacier]

I really fall behind the other sin rogue on vectis cause I dont have a high ilvl ss I can use

he gets a ton more damage on the adds than me

[civic palm]

Thankfully there's more than just 1 add on Vectis.

[harsh glacier]

idk I know in my guild the add dies too fast

I basically just get bleeds on it and let the burst dps kill it

Ive only killed it once though, still learning the right timings

[civic palm]

Bleeds probably a waste at that point if you don't have SS, just Rupture and TB combo it.

Probably even like... a 3CP rupture if it dies that fast.

[harsh glacier]

Yeah I need to get the TB timings down better too

on the kill I used TB on the boss basically every time the add spawned and it felt real bad

but cant just save it for add every time or you lose a ton of dps

thinking escang might be more usable

but thats just me not knowing the fight properly yet

[lunar tangle]

yeah i resimmed

still that set up

is the best one

[steep obsidian]

stack haste for single target mastery for multi target

[lunar tangle]

how much haste thats tthe thing

[steep obsidian]

well

alot

i dont think there is any breakpoint

but you can sim

[harsh glacier]

taloc is the only purely single target fight in uldir

[lunar tangle]

how can you sim how much haste you need?

[harsh glacier]

so its always worth valuing mastery a bit more than stat weights say

[lone junco]

hi

[civic palm]

👋 👋 👋 👋 👋 👋 👋 👋 👋 👋 👋 👋 👋 👋

[lone junco]

didnt know my discord number

[prime stirrup]

Haste absolutely has a point of diminishing returns. Anywhere above 22% haste before me walking into raid and it becomes my lowest stat weight. Obviously this is based on my gear/talent/azerite setup. But if you have more than 30% haste with reorganization array you will probably experience similar

For those unsure of my numbers here's a Sim. https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/hh9baTBQwq6u7Z1boiE4gJ

[winter gale]

How to make sim for mythic plus ? 40sec, 1 min? 6 bosses patchwerk?

[prime stirrup]

For m+ Sims most people do no buffs 5 target patchwork 40seconds works well

[winter gale]

thanks

[winter gale]

I wanted to ask

Unbuffed I am sitting on 15% haste. I find that a bit low. I am decently geared, ilvl 376.

I can even feel energy dry somehow when I am playing.

This is my gear that sims best for me

i removed that one agi gem into full haste.

[prime stirrup]

Your build is fine for m+ but you will notice it is pretty energy starved single target. You want haste badly for single target

[winter gale]

Yes

Atleast like 4,5 %

this is unbuffed btw

No food, nothing

[prime stirrup]

Easiest way to move stats around is to have lots of available rings.

[winter gale]

I do, like 5,6 of them high ilvl in my bag atm 😄

was about to test em all 😄

Thank you m8. I am working full time and things arround rogues are fast changing. I appreciate ur help alot :). Have a good morning!

[ornate gazelle]

anyone here have a clean deadly poison, repair, and consumables reminder weakaura string i could have?

[topaz notch]

lol rogues are op, from all trixx this group taught me i went from bottom dpsing to out dpsing people 15 ilvls over me

i can send u the missing poison one if u want to just add it to your group if u want

i usually repair everytime i can mount so i dont have w.a for it and im to cheap for consumables so i rarely use it unless its something progress~

[sacred flint]

i just want 390 freehold ring

[velvet kernel]

and trink

😄

[topaz notch]

yeah 395 loaded dice with socket

yes thanks

[worldly ledge]

@topaz notch i would sck myself gor that

[topaz notch]

lol i would suck myself if i only could, no trinket needed

my wife would have 0 leverage on me after that

[unkempt forge]

My build was good for M+ you think or need more mastery https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/j46FWMrfqxFsdEGwpsXAsY

[velvet kernel]

you need to sim without buffs

[unkempt forge]

oh

[velvet kernel]

also use exsang for m+

[unkempt forge]

some people using Toxic

[velvet kernel]

well toxic is worthless if you are not attacking that target

[unkempt forge]

Check that

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ucz7gxxjoh3U6GMLuh2Fak

[topaz notch]

so glad i just simmed, i didnt realize i had int gem where my agi should be haha

[velvet kernel]

what are your stat weights where you are using an agi gem over haste?

[topaz notch]

agi 1.73 haste 1.71

[velvet kernel]

@unkempt forge why are you not simming patchwerk?

for m+ it should be 6 targets 40 secs patchwerk

[unkempt forge]

Good

[safe matrix]

M+ is typically 4-6 targets 20 seconds on tyrannical and 40 seconds on fortified

[velvet kernel]

is there much point in simming for tyran and fortified

might as well just sim fortified

[unkempt forge]

you got right

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/p3yT8ZmeG8DPQas4abbEMJ

[velvet kernel]

unless you want like 12 sets

[inland flax]

Hey guys, is doubble shroud+archive still the best traits?

[unkempt forge]

i think in M+ 3 shroud

[velvet kernel]

tripple ss is the "best" for m+

but 2x ss and archive is not bad at all

[topaz notch]

double ss and one of those agi / rupture should be best on higher tho

[velvet kernel]

well ppl use 2x archive and 1xss

like it just depends on what your grp wants for higher

and what your job is

[inland flax]

Hmm I see

thanks!

[topaz notch]

how much agi is 2x archive when its on max

[velvet kernel]

idk

and its diff for diff ilvl

[unkempt forge]

not more than 100

[velvet kernel]

it gives way more then 100

[topaz notch]

so 1 Scent of Blood trait on 4 mobs is over 240 agi then

[velvet kernel]

if it was not omre then 100 no one would use it outside of raid

[topaz notch]

no idea why archive would be better

[velvet kernel]

It gives at least above 560

[topaz notch]

lol wtf above 560

[civic palm]

Someone is thinking of the wrong thing.

[topaz notch]

480 agi from 2 archive on full stacks if the item is ilvl 370

[civic palm]

Correcto.

[topaz notch]

so i would still go with 2 ss and 1 scent of blood, but thats just me

[velvet kernel]

well i have 385 😄

[topaz notch]

people as always should play whats more fun in their opinion :p

well 385 puts u at exactly 560 :p