The lion dude in the warfront
#assassination
outer depot
been wanting to play assa in my M+ grp for a while now and cant 😦
warm geode
at least i dont pvp
inner pulsar
At this point my Outlul sims higher than my Sin
hollow stone
I just play outlaw in m+ cause my traits and weaps are better 😦
ionic charm
I keep getting first dance pieces so at least my zul damage will be lit after being underwhelming on every other boss
outer depot
yeah samew
warm geode
4 weeks in a row with pvp nerfs .-.
outer depot
i dont want to play outlaw
hazy sphinx
We needed the PvP nerf.
outer depot
but i have 385 deadshot chest, 370 ace shoulders and 370 laser matrix hat,
kinda have to
hazy sphinx
We were def overtuned.
hollow stone
Any time double rogue 3s is viable at above 2k means we need nerf lol
warm geode
i suck at pvp, didnt even notice we r strong xD
hazy sphinx
Hit some poor kid with a buffed up sharpened blade straight in the eye socket.
inner pulsar
Hahaha
hazy sphinx
Dude just left the arena.
hollow stone
But turbo cleave....
full mural
Valentine I feel you my outlaw sims 2k higher then my assasination
vivid mist
The system shock nerf was needed but the flat 6% seems like a bit much
ionic charm
System shock by 33% tho? Rip my wm dps bonus for wq elites lmao
outer depot
at least in legion we got leggos for our class, right?
azerite is such a garbo system
hollow stone
Deadly and sbomb are mandatory
hazy sphinx
and system shock/cripplin
hollow stone
So you only had 1 choice, really
hazy sphinx
the system shock is nice for when you get that full burst kidney
SB
MfD envenom
Honestly, I switched it depending on what i was fighting
ionic charm
You’re making me wet
ionic charm
No pk for the 5 cp?
hollow stone
All bout dat mfd kidney opener
hazy sphinx
pk?
inner pulsar
Penalty Kick?
ionic charm
Poisoned knife lol
hazy sphinx
what
rather fok than that
so since im SS
I open up with a cheap shot
if they are both together
vivid mist
Pk is good for a quick and cheap cp
inner pulsar
Can't post it here, but y'all should look up that guy doing the backflip penalty kick that happened recently
I would quit
velvet kernel
@inner pulsar how do i use second vanish?
hollow stone
G g kidney opener for st is spicy w ss
hazy sphinx
i get another cheap shot and garrote my target. rupture and muti
yeah apple but i try and get soem CC rolling
hollow stone
Depending on your comp. obv
hazy sphinx
Before the kidney.
hollow stone
Yea
hazy sphinx
On 2s, i just drop it and have it on CD
Cause i have internal bleeding
in 3s, im prey so
I dictate the damage.
hollow stone
On 2s its all aboot that mongo life tho
inner pulsar
@velvet kernel Mut to 4 CP > Vend > TB > Vanish > Env > Mut > Env
ionic charm
I hate internal bleeding with a passion
hazy sphinx
sorry, rough
inner pulsar
Same as before
warm geode
i just want one sword to play outlaw pvp, i saw pshero stream, seams good
hollow stone
Yea. Our survivability is terrible in arena now
hazy sphinx
i have yet to see an outlaw rogue over 1900
unreal sundial
Does Battlefield precision work on raid bosses?
velvet kernel
@inner pulsar ty
hollow stone
Ive been playing my mage more in arena of late
warm geode
@hazy sphinx pshero xD
warm geode
he is playng outlaw pvp since before deadshot nerf
inner pulsar
Getting off topic guys with this outlaw talk
warm geode
oh
hazy sphinx
hahahhahahahahah
inner pulsar
Indeed
hazy sphinx
honestly
i think my favorite thing in the world
is getting another sin rogue
pop evasion
shadowstep kidney
hollow stone
#bringback9seckidneys
hazy sphinx
and just watch him look at his healer with fear in his eyes
warm geode
@hollow stone when that was a thing?
hazy sphinx
cause he knows that im about to shoot my load of blind into his friends eye
hollow stone
Revealing strike outlaw or combat rogue. I think it was wod
hazy sphinx
Dark Angel and dmg with the disc priest.
hollow stone
Rogue history all kind of blends together
inner pulsar
@hazy sphinx You can certainly paint quite the picture Zid, master of the language
hazy sphinx
Damn right. Nothing in this game satisfies me more than killing someoen in the smoke bomb.
hollow stone
Fucking disc priests man
hazy sphinx
Just watching them trying to target their healers.
To shadowstep
MUAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA
and then our healer MCs his dude
hhahahahahahaha
oh shit, you aint my bud!
heal me! dead
inner pulsar
I don't know about any of this PvP stuff. I log in, enter raid, don't get loot, log out
hollow stone
Oh yea. Ive been playing the mage in rmp and our smoke bomb set ups are tiiiiight. Gotta be like 70% our wins to bomb a dps
hazy sphinx
Rogues control that group man.
A full dr kidney with smoke bomb without trinket is death.
even better to blind
vanish and then sap em right when they come out
hollow stone
Yea. Full kidney into bomb and any cc on healer, they dead
hazy sphinx
i can feel them striking their keyboard with impunity when I do that.
hollow stone
But rogue AND mage nerfs so gg
hollow stone
Time to go back to legion hero cleave
hazy sphinx
Mages are so hard to play against as a rogue sometimes.
hollow stone
Mage should be fine, they shifted the power. Its just annoying to have less burst
hazy sphinx
If you don't kick that poly you are screwed.
hazy sphinx
Get out of here traitor.
hollow stone
😎
mortal basalt
Rip burst of speed
hollow stone
Those were the days
Yea... dw. Next xpac will have no feint cd again
Blizz cant make up their mind
hazy sphinx
2s is very fun though.
I'm thinking of just picking up a warrior or a enchancement shaman
hollow stone
More work to be done. Zug zug
Lol. My rogue n i were joking about running turbo too...
My other rogue. Lol
cerulean walrus
Feint got hit so damn hard though feelsbadman, 35 energy, GCD, and 15 second CD for 40% aoe reduction
hazy sphinx
It's life saving though
cerulean walrus
Yeah, every 15 seconds on a GCD lmfao
hazy sphinx
Still, better than running cheat death
cerulean walrus
Cheat is very good mang
hazy sphinx
in pvp?
inner pulsar
Wait, we AREN'T supposed to use CD in Pvp?!
slate jacinth
Im trying exsanguinate tonight because we're rolling through HC. What is the correct timing to use exsanguniate during the fight? ( I know pull rotation ), and should I wait with refreshing an exsanguinated garrote and rupture till they are completely run out?
hollow stone
You are forgiven, hero of the people
cerulean walrus
I mean cheat lets your OP disc get a mega heal off on you so you don't die
hollow stone
Lol
cerulean walrus
God damn everything's gonna change
slate jacinth
Sorry to bother, but could someone be so very kind and elaborate exsanguinate for me? 😃 ❤
strange python
Faster bleed ticks
warm geode
lol
inner pulsar
@slate jacinth Well, I can answer the last part, never overwrite a buffed garrote or rupture
So yes, let those run out
safe matrix
You don't want to refresh exsang'd bleeds early because you're overwriting a buffed bleed with a non buffed one
hazy sphinx
asdfsdfjdbsgsbehdbsg has spoken
safe matrix
Exsang also snapshots based on haste when cast, so if you have a haste buff you should use it before you can exsang
cerulean walrus
How long did it take you to type that perfectly?
cerulean walrus
Oh, megamind
inner pulsar
@cerulean walrus Smarter not harder my dude
cerulean walrus
200 IQ guess I'm stupid AF
inner pulsar
@slate jacinth So in much the same way as the opener, get pandemic garrote and rupture up, hit that Galecaller's Boon and then Exsang ( I think, I play TB, because SS doesn't exist for me)
hazy sphinx
God I can't wait to raid tonight.
hazy sphinx
I'm telling you, full ORANGE on both sides tonight.
inner pulsar
@hazy sphinx LFR doesn't count bro
slate jacinth
That makes sense. But how about during the fight? Say, I have 8 sec left on garrote and 13 sec left on rupture, and my exsanguinate just came off cooldown. Do I let these two dots run out, refresh them, then exsanguinate, or do I refresh them at their current timings to use exsanguinate asap?
cerulean walrus
Depends on if they're SS empowered
torn hinge
guys with no SS traits do i still use garrote 2x in the opener or not worth?
round harbor
No
inner pulsar
You let those get into pandemic range, refresh them, then exsang
slate jacinth
@cerulean walrus They are only empowered if made from vanish, yes?
slate jacinth
Ok so its fine to have exsanguinate ready to wait for dots to pandemic
inner pulsar
@torn hinge If you were still using Subt, I believe the answer is yes, but with no SS, MA is most likely optimal
torn hinge
i sim with 0% difrence with MA
inner pulsar
Well then you do you boo, play it either way
main blaze
For uldir does 2x DD feel worse than 2x SS?
I swear it feels like I do more damage with SS
fleet whale
well, SS does allow for a clean opener
main blaze
I havent had many pulls with DD since I just got it this week
it sims better but it doesnt seem better
fleet whale
Also there is some rng to DD so keep that in mind
main blaze
Maybe I just was unlucky
fleet whale
while there is hardly any for SS
main blaze
Not a whole lot of samples to choose from
inner pulsar
The MA opener is clean, it is just different
round harbor
^
main blaze
Yeah the opener is alright with MA
round harbor
I enjoy it more
main blaze
I do like SS opener more but that could just be because Ive done so many M+ and had SS for awhile now
fleet whale
Though if I had three archive pieces I would probably just use the three of those and then use the MA build
for uldir
main blaze
Well I know the initial burst will be different with SS vs DD but even against the other rogues that Im usually ahead of. With DD I just feel behind
hazy sphinx
I've never particularly cared for burst.
cerulean walrus
Yet you play a rogue?
main blaze
behind over the course of the fight I mean
hazy sphinx
Yeah.
I don't look at my meters during a fight.
I don't look at my meters period.
If I see a yellow line on the corner of my eye, everything is good.
main blaze
lol
inner pulsar
Zid is more of a slow and steady guy, a gentle lover for sure
hazy sphinx
Very. But in the end I get what I want.
hazy sphinx
In comparison to other classes?
main blaze
Oh no against other rogues
hazy sphinx
Ah ok.
main blaze
idc about beating the hunter or DK or w/e
round harbor
Shit I will kms is I lose
main blaze
Although I do dislike seeing a mage #1 dps on the meters for Zul
hazy sphinx
I also paly a with 2 98 overall mages all the time.
round harbor
I hate losing period. Don't care what class I'm playing against
main blaze
frost mage*
cerulean walrus
I feel like I gotta be top otherwise I feel useless to my guild
ionic charm
95 avg FDK in my raid beats me every fight and there’s nothing I can do about it.
hazy sphinx
If you are winning in most fights @round harbor , your raid comp isn't doing what it should be.
mossy hazel
Is there anyway to track exsang at all?
round harbor
I'm not top, but near the top on all fights
mossy hazel
I found last night during zekvoz that I kept losing track of whether I need to let my bleeds tick out or refresh them
hazy sphinx
That's what Iwas saying though
round harbor
Only lose to rank 5 arms warrior on vectis for example
main blaze
I just need my raid leader to let me stay on Mother the whole time to have a 90+ average
mossy hazel
So many things going on that fight I kept forgetting
hazy sphinx
But how did you do in comparison to other rogues?
round harbor
Top
cerulean walrus
Lol
round harbor
Rank 19 world
hazy sphinx
I'm gonna answer everything like that.
cerulean walrus
He's a top
round harbor
For vectis
hazy sphinx
You hungry? Top.
inner pulsar
Yeah, other classes don't exist in this channel
hazy sphinx
That's dope though, nice parse man.
inner pulsar
I'm rank 4 LFR
hazy sphinx
Can you link a log? Wanna see you in action.
main blaze
@mossy hazel I personally like having a buff bar addon like Raven to keep track of all the bleeds. You can do the same with a WA but its just a little easier with an addon that tracks that stuff
cerulean walrus
LOL GOTTA HAVE THOSE OP LFR PARSES
inner pulsar
hazy sphinx
i have yet to do anything outside of wing 1 in LFR
cerulean walrus
Damn dude we got Method Sco over here
inner pulsar
Sorry, that was misinformation, I'm part of the Purple Parse Nation
mossy hazel
@main blaze I have a WA for my bleeds (it's one of the ones from !wa) but exsang just cuts their timer in half so then during zek with 15 mechanics going I lose track of whether those bleeds were exsanged or not. Lol
round harbor
hazy sphinx
Wow your name is rawrzillazor
inner pulsar
I mean it just is what it is, I know what I'm supposed to do, I guess I just don't actually do it in the fights
hazy sphinx
dont know what i was expecting
round harbor
Fair
hazy sphinx
Love your transmog though
round harbor
My enhance shamans name is crankgodxxl if you like that better
main blaze
@mossy hazel Exsang only speeds up the bleed on the target you cast exsang on. I would just exsang either ZV or the Caster adds
cerulean walrus
Cause you need to be on crank to enjoy shaman?
main blaze
that way you always know
hazy sphinx
Your parses. ughhhhh
cerulean walrus
We're gonna be pushing Zucc'Voz today, last of the 3 stooges before Zulul
round harbor
I need a talk parse badly
solar fog
Got a 370 helm with SoB in chest 
round harbor
Taloc
mossy hazel
@main blaze Oh yea, definitely, it's more like I drop exsang, then do a couple mechanics, get back to stabbing, look at my bleeds with liek 5s left and I can't remember if I need to let them tick out or if I should refresh them. Lol. It's not a huge deal, mostly just my brain farting out because I'm not used to mythic raiding
round harbor
But I sit every week for people to gear up their alts
hazy sphinx
I'm gonna @ you tomorrow rawr, so you can look at my new and improved logs from tonight.
main blaze
Nice rank Rawr
mossy hazel
Thanks anyway though, it's not a huge deal. WAs just curious if anyone else was doing anything like that
main blaze
I got this last night https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/dwacJ8Lj9trbfFBx#fight=20&view=rankings
with a dumb use of my potion 😢
hazy sphinx
Your other rogues did really well though
mossy hazel
At 366 I shouldn't be expecting much more than greens... Right...? Or am I really just that bad
main blaze
haha one died cause a tank died and the other has really unfortunate job
inner pulsar
Good good, then I'LL @ Zid, and he can use his new knowledge on me, and I'll be twice as good
main blaze
They both do well too usually. Just not a good pull for them
@mossy hazel Just aim for green+ parses.
round harbor
I'm on my phone and can't see in-depth, how many people do you have sit on the big add?
errant mauve
Green + parse?
inner pulsar
And get any other rogues kicked from your guild so they don't make you look bad@mossy hazel
main blaze
oh wait 4
cerulean walrus
Well damn @wheat zealot Guess I better go FDK
main blaze
I forgot one guy. Me, other rogue, lock and spriest
mossy hazel
Oh the other rogues in my raid group do a wonderful job making me look bad already
Way too late for that
cerulean walrus
tfw you're the only sin rogue in the entire guild so you get put into every M+ group
Comfy AF
main blaze
lol
little frigate
Guys, am I reading the sims wrong if i conclude that y ou want 3 times archive (or lazer) now even for m+?
mossy hazel
I can stand my ground with the other sin rogue in M+ becasue I still run SS and he doesn't. Lol
vestal abyss
Is it true that bosses dont have a backside?
main blaze
@little frigate No, you want SS for m+
cerulean walrus
Wait he doesn't run SS in M+?
vestal abyss
or rather, dont have a frontside?
cerulean walrus
Is he stupid?
ionic charm
@little frigate the m+ sims have archive with uldir stacks for some reason. Ss is still bis for m+
little frigate
ah okay, so still SS
main blaze
Herodamage should remove the +5 / +10 laser matrix / archive from the herodungeon sims
little frigate
3x SS?
cerulean walrus
For lower keys
little frigate
man im really starting to hate this fucking azerite shit
main blaze
oh wait they did remove it
acoustic cave
yo guys what do you think about hidden Blades I feel like its good for aoe and single both
cerulean walrus
Bait is bait
lost wharf
17k club 8)
cerulean walrus
Nice! what traits you running?
hazy sphinx
Fuck u and your trinkets
main blaze
Hidden blades is decent for initial burst on something but its not always the best choice for anything where you FoK multiple times.
mossy hazel
Ugh, my trinkets are garbage
lost wharf
@cerulean walrus double archive and 1x SS
hazy sphinx
I hope you stub your toe on the coffee table later.
acoustic cave
I mean I dont like poison tbh dmg feels really low I am talking about for bosses btw since its tyra week for M+
acoustic cave
I meant poison bomb
night prawn
hi guys should i use galecaller's boon in or out of vendetta ?
rocky notch
gotta be bigger
cerulean walrus
So many socketss @lost wharf jfc
signal sonnet
has the garrote bug been fixed yet?
cerulean walrus
Old news
wheat zealot
@signal sonnet check pins
inner pulsar
@mossy hazel You should be running it using the nightly build btw
cerulean walrus
Yes
wanton wagon
My friend got 395 GC on his fucking monk tank
signal sonnet
i saw it was supposed to be fixed, has it been taking into affect yet?
main blaze
SS is fixed
signal sonnet
@wheat zealot or, just say "yes", "no"
hazy sphinx
?
cerulean walrus
Nice reaction dude
lost wharf
@cerulean walrus Yea, just spammed m+ for everything except azerite
safe matrix
Yes the bug has been fixed as of October 4th
mossy hazel
@inner pulsar Ran nightlight, went down 1dps. Thanks for that
cerulean walrus
That's a really OP chestpiece btw hope you like it
mossy hazel
Lol
marsh bloom
is 82% haste too much in my opener?
mossy hazel
Ahaha, nightlight... *Nightly
marsh bloom
with lust ok
marsh bloom
lmao yea
inner pulsar
@mossy hazel Well, just trying to help you out friend, that way you are benefiting from the most recent changes to the apl
hazy sphinx
I'm gonna go get a puppy and call it Dopple. Then I'm going to resent it for having those trinkets.
wheat zealot
Are you a troll too @marsh bloom?
hazy sphinx
I'll love it, but not as much as a regular pup.
inner pulsar
@wheat zealot That kid of talk is not helpful, and just serves to derail the conversation Indicaz
main blaze
0
nimble tartan
👀
main blaze
Im slow as fuck right now
hot coyote
sudden sigil
Does anyone know if archive of the titans stack?
safe matrix
Yes it stacks
hazy sphinx
They all stack!
inner pulsar
Oh shit, someone posted a big dick sim, so here comes Omr
hazy sphinx
Unless you run sharpened blades
safe matrix
More agi per stack of the buff
hazy sphinx
ANd Blizz nerfs you to the ground
nimble tartan
im just here to watch
frozen pecan
hello
cerulean walrus
OMR only shows when people break 17k
frozen pecan
keen inlet
Memes, off-topic
nimble tartan
liavre i like the new name
safe matrix
How about all the people stoking the fire just skidaddle or stay silent? xoxo
hot coyote
nimble tartan
aww what a cute emote
frozen pecan
cloud iron
Wait he sims that high and he’s using subterfuge? How I switch to that and I’m losing like 450 sim dps
nimble tartan
dang liryns emote is low tier it doesnt even move...
lost wharf
I can't keep up dude, I'm raiding right now Dx
safe matrix
Anyways, please resume your #assassination talks
If you wanna talk memes or emotes head over to #off-topic
nimble tartan
i only play with tb sin and master assassin no matter what how does that make us feel
slate jacinth
Is there like a rule of thumb how many secs there has to be left on garrote and rupture (non-empowered) before you can exsanguinate? Or is it just always wait for them to pandemic? Because sometimes garrote might be on 7 sec and rupture 23, when exsanguinate comes up, and that leaves alot of waste.
twin hatch
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
nimble tartan
for a very short while yes
i was in nurfed on the same server
for like 8 months or somethin like that
round harbor
Gotcha. That's where then
surreal halo
Is assass DogShit in M+ without a SS trait?
bright shale
No
ionic charm
Triple subterfuge garrote is strong without it, just less so
hollow stone
You wanna refresh g and r to full pand before xsanging so try to plan ahead as best you can and if you get f'd on timings, just waste the extra ticks to get them to "full power" before xsang @slate jacinth
inner pulsar
@slate jacinth Welp, Applejuicce beat me to it
round harbor
What is the peach name mean?
hollow stone
It means we are masters of all specs 🤓
inner pulsar
@surreal halo Assassin is Outlul in M+ without SS
round harbor
Gotcha
slate jacinth
@hollow stone Thanks 😃 when you say full pand - what exactly does that mean?
hollow stone
Pandemic dots
inner pulsar
@slate jacinth He means right after you refresh in pandemic range
hollow stone
Google explains pandemic better than i do
inner pulsar
@slate jacinth If you arent sure what that means, that might explain some of the confusion. Google "wow pandemic dots" for a quick rundown
slate jacinth
So at 7.2 sec I have to refresh rupture and at less than 5.4sec garrote I refresh.
According to ravenholdt.
Yeah I did just google pandemic. Seems like a cool mechanic to play around
hollow stone
Yea. But if they are over that, and xsang is ready, use em again anyway so you have the max possible duration on both dots before xsanging
lost wharf
Does it matter if I use pandemic if the boss or whatever isn't gonna live? Like eg dot at 16, exsang to 8 and mob is only gonna live 8sec?
round harbor
I mean if it's a boss then no
surreal halo
@inner pulsar Would you swap a 370 chest with SS in on M+ and get rid of a 385 for with Rezans?
inner pulsar
@surreal halo Yes
hollow stone
No. Ideally, your dots run out exactly when the boss dies. But gl with that crazy rng
sudden sigil
In m+, woould it be better to run 3xSS ?
inner pulsar
Wait
sudden sigil
Or what is the favorable setup with traits?
hollow stone
Or maybe youre some math wizard
inner pulsar
I mean I would use the 370 with SS
round harbor
Doing a higher cost rupture doesn't do more dmg per ticket so if you can predict how long something is gonna live you wanna cast a rupture to just barely clip that, throw the rest of cps into envm
slate jacinth
Thanks for the pointers! Think I got it 😃
wild stone
So curious, I try to play all specs.. But have been playing sub less than assassin and Outlaw.. Are any of the specs better this week in m+ than others?
hollow stone
Yea. But that takes some good will hunting level of mental maths to do
round harbor
They are all good
inner pulsar
@slate jacinth If you aren't using one of the WA setups from !wa, I would look into getting one, because they will help you know when to refresh your dots for pandemic
round harbor
Play what you want and are good at for m+ imo
wild stone
Lol it's hard to choose what spec to use in m+
round harbor
I change based on dungeon
hollow stone
Honestly, for m+, play what youre best at or have the best traits for
slate jacinth
@inner pulsar I am using Fragnance's UI if you know who he is on twitch.
round harbor
TD is good tier for sub, atal and motherlode good for outlaw, sin for most of others
safe matrix
There's also a quick write up of pandemic in the pins
just so people know in the future^^
inner pulsar
@slate jacinth I do, so I believe his WA do in fact light up rupture and garotte when they are in pandemic refresh range
wild stone
@round harbor why td for sub?
round harbor
First, second, fourth bosses sub is god tier
ionic charm
Why 4th?
ionic charm
Oh I guess I’m just so used to the stairs I never shadostep
wild stone
I outlaw in td and never come off last boss
hollow stone
Just use corner cheese strat
round harbor
Can negate a stack of the arrow
wild stone
Oo
ionic charm
Doesn’t sin evasion do that too?
hollow stone
Id say sub best is kr. But thats just my opinion
round harbor
Why
ionic charm
Yeah first and 2nd boss for sure, just didn’t get what you meant by 4th. Just wondering
round harbor
Kr is a sin dungeon for sure imo
hollow stone
Yea. Smaller pulls with prior targets
wild stone
kr is sin to me
ionic charm
The fact that evasion dodges whirlwind off trash after first boss is amazing
wild stone
Ehh less than 5 targets.
inner pulsar
@hollow stone You just cheese everything
round harbor
Kr is all 2-3 target cleave
hollow stone
To me, theyre all sin dungeons but thatd be my arg for sub :p
I wasnt kidding, im the cheese lord
cerulean magnet
Anybody can tell me what to use vanish for outside opener? Refreshing garrote?
round harbor
Depends on talents
wheat zealot
@cerulean magnet master assassin or subterfuge?
hollow stone
And traits
cerulean magnet
Subterfuge, in m+ i have 1 ss, raiding ive got archives
hollow stone
Still subt in raid w no ss?
cerulean magnet
It sims higher
cerulean magnet
So basically i try to do the opener all over again
round harbor
Not really, it changes mid fight
Since you line up ven/vanish and you already have dots running
lofty sand
After opener you vanish to refresh garrote at 5s, then Vendetta and Vanish should sort of align, almost align
like 10s gap
lime briar
For hidden appearances quest do i need to have the artifact weapon equipped and can only do legion world quests?
hollow stone
You dont want to pand your ss emp garr on opening garr.. this can get really confusing.. im gonna be typing for a while, carry on
In opener, you want your first double ss emp g to fall fully before van to reapply a double ss emp g, pandemicing like you usually would loses valuable seconds of ss emp g
Wasnt as long as i thought..
steel nexus
does stacking gutripper increase proc chance as well as dmg or just dmg?
hollow stone
Situational
modest zodiac
but some situations you have multi target ss
hollow stone
For st raid, id go arch
For m+, id go ss
For cleave fights in raid, depends on your comp
inner pulsar
@modest zodiac Let me ask you, do you have 3xArchive?
hollow stone
I barely ever need to cleave so i dont run ss. Cause my group is boss at cleaving adds
inner pulsar
Gotcha, ok, just wondering
modest zodiac
what do you think of CT on mythrax?
hollow stone
Mythic?
modest zodiac
heroic
modest zodiac
right.
modest zodiac
tbh it feels like vectis is the only boss where i might go 2x arch and 1xss instead of 3 arch
inner pulsar
Go Outlul and be a cleave monster
hollow stone
Even then, that add should die in 10sec or less
unreal kayak
what is better for m+ 370 with scent or 340 with SS
unreal kayak
no i have 2 others
hollow stone
What level keys do you do?
hollow stone
Sob would be better imo. Anyone else chime in?
unreal kayak
TY for answer
inner pulsar
👌
inner pulsar
Have a stack of Reorg Array from another piece?
inner pulsar
Might be that, can you link?
steel nexus
link simc? how do i do that
inner pulsar
Do you use raidbots?
steel nexus
no
inner pulsar
RIP
steel nexus
only use simc
eager haven
So I’m interested in this MA build.. I checked out the guide, we don’t vendetta/vanish/tb anymore, I’m curious as to why 🤔
steel nexus
hang on ill try raidbots
inner pulsar
Well, with that limited information, its hard to help
hollow stone
Idk what your question is @eager haven
inner pulsar
Yeah
eager haven
The rotation used to say use vendetta, vanish, toxic blade right? Is it just a dps loss now? Cause I thought the whole point was to get a TB crit with the MA talent or something.
inner pulsar
Oh
eager haven
Or at least it was discussed here a few days ago.
So I’m just trying to understand why it changed.
inner pulsar
So, we tested yesterday, and TB > Vanish is a minor increase in DPS
So minor that it really doesnt matter
hollow stone
33 dps baby
eager haven
I seeee.
inner pulsar
@steel nexus Well, that jives with what I would expect, but just make sure that you check the "Use nightly build" option in the future, to insure you are getting the most up to date build
steel nexus
what is use nightly build?
steel nexus
that on raidbots?
eager haven
Interesting. Thanks for the info @hollow stone @inner pulsar
hollow stone
Anytime
inner pulsar
@steel nexus Under options, fartherst right dropdown
inner pulsar
No problem, yes on raidbots
I don't know how to use gyazo to do one of those fancy gifs
steel nexus
now im questioning which one is more accurate
raidbots or simc
ive always relied on simc
inner pulsar
Well, Raidbots USES Simc
steel nexus
why would it give me a completely different result then?
quick portal
update your simc with the nightly build
safe matrix
raidbots
inner pulsar
Perhaps because of the buffs that were enabled in Raidbots?
mortal slate
hello guys, quick question, regarding the rotation, if i have a rupture on the target with 4 seconds left, do i build 4+ combo points to reapply? or can i reaply at any cp just to add to the pandemic effect?
safe matrix
raidbots is simcraft in the cloud so its more up to date
steel nexus
i see
safe matrix
you have to manually update simcraft constantly to be accurate
they're the same program otherwise
inner pulsar
@mortal slate Build
inner pulsar
👌
serene wadi
does Archive of the titans stack like bloodmallet writes ?
quick portal
for single target boss fights (or minimal adds)...what's more effective, Iron Wire or PotW?
quick portal
that's what i figured...as bosses aren't typically hit by either mechanic lol
inner pulsar
@serene wadi I don't understand that question
quick portal
for a fight like Zek though...what do you think?
inner pulsar
PotW
steady hollow
can any of you fine rogues post a ss of ur talent tree please?:D focusing on pvp but i want to do a pve build to get some gear upgrades and shizzle
inner pulsar
Sure SIN BFA GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ <-- SIN GUIDE HERE
steady hollow
thanks!
inner pulsar
👌
serene wadi
@inner pulsar does archive stack
hollow stone
@serene wadi archive stacks. Bloodmallet's representation is misleading because of how huge a dps increase 1x archive gives due to array stacks. Best way to look its look at the diff between 1 and 2 of the traits being stacked
serene wadi
ah thank you apple
hollow stone
I dont have the actual numbers but if 1 is 1500dmg, and 2 puts that to 2000, the 2nd is only worth 500
Hope that makes sense
hollow stone
No haste cap but sim yourself as when you hit higher haste other stats may be better for you
twin pollen
I know someone will clarify this, but part of Archive stacks and part of it doesn't, but I forget which is which off-hand
meager aspen
Sim withtout matrice (set 0 in raidbots ?)
twin pollen
ah gotcha, thanks
meager aspen
with Galler's + matrice and Harlan's dice, i reach 60%+ hast , reach 30k DPS pull with 1 SS and Exsanguish
hollow stone
Thats it?
twin pollen
guildie got a 380 Harlan's Dice yesterday. ugh
void pecan
Hey I got one of those last week!
twin pollen
nice
twin pollen
I got a 380 dagger, so I'm not too upset
void pecan
Yeah, that's nice
hollow stone
Yea. Dagger better anyway
twin pollen
I just switched to Assassination, still learning stuff. I expected the Construct Overcharger to be better, so much haste, and haste still is my top stat, tho crit is righ there with it
void pecan
Yeah. Raid trinkets are so sad...
hollow stone
Yea...... construct proc chance is terrible
As like half this disc knows by now, my 390 w socket sims less than fathoms
Its great design
twin pollen
ouch lol
even with the overcharger, I was wowed by how good the single target dps is
ready to get home and try my real trinkets
tribal parcel
Double archive or not?
mortal slate
also, during exg do i want to let my bleeds drop? or refresh when pandemic?
past mauve
Sim question -- I simmed to look at 2 chests I have both are 355 chest - equal stats - current one Im wearing has Archive of the Titans/Gutripper/Impassive Visage -- other Laser Matrix/Overwhelming Power/Longstrider. The sim is saying to swap to the LM one over AotT -- the Azerite (HeroDamage) shows that Archive is over Laser so thoughts as to why?
Could it be wearing a double Laser is better than (1) Laser and (1) Titan
stiff vortex
i just droped a galecaller , but when do i use it in my opener? ( i play 3ss traits)
red plaza
with vendetta
inner pulsar
I'm sorry for slowing down answering the questions guys, it just gets tiring answering the same questions over and over, and getting shit on for trying to have some fun with other frequent members of this channel in between
@stiff vortex You use GCB on CD, and with Vendetta when it is up
safe matrix
If you get so worked up about the frequent questions, you don't have to answer everything 😄
take a break and relax from this discord, it gets to you after a while
past mauve
^^
eager frost
I don't want to get rid of my phantom decks :/
but its my last 355 item
feelsbadman
inner pulsar
I didn't say I was worked up, I was apologizing that it was taking some folks longer to get their questions answered
past mauve
@inner pulsar you have to have fun too!
inner pulsar
Emotes are for OT guys
@past mauve Can you rerun using the nightly build please
Farthest right dropdown under the options
soft osprey
Quick question, I've read the basic from guides and stuff. everywhere says shroud is best but when simming it says other wise. Is SS still bis even if simming says otherwise?
inner pulsar
@soft osprey SS is no longer best for raids, try checking out Herodamage to get an idea of the current rankings
wheat zealot
Its not bis for single target if thats your question, but in m+ ss will outperform any trait of equal ilvl generally
inner pulsar
Link is in the pins
soft osprey
got it, ty.
inner pulsar
Also, as always, sim yourself to find the optimal mix of your traits
cerulean magnet
@hollow stone thanks for the advice
nocturne mulch
oh crap, I didn't realize the hotfix had happened, I spent this weeks raid NOT garrot-ing after SS garrotes, oh well I guess
inner pulsar
RIP Orange parse
nocturne mulch
I had a 92, maybe that could have been a 95 💔
strange hatch
any smart suggestions for this weeks affixes?
Went with DD & SwSa today, somewhat felels wrong even though it sims like 8% above 2x SS for single target
nimble tartan
triple garrote cez
nimble tartan
ye run triple garrote
inner pulsar
Play outlaw?
nimble tartan
the only thing i would consider would be like maybe he 370 sob
past mauve
wheat zealot
Its a lot of base agil and the proc is huge
Will help with your single target on the long tyran bosses too
inner pulsar
@past mauve Ok, got it, though the nightly build didnt change anything. At your ilvl Archive and LM are functionally equal, and Overwhelming Power puts that piece over
round harbor
I'm gonna run some m+ later with BB and swirling sands instead of triple SS. We shall see lol
past mauve
ahh ok, that makes sense
strange hatch
@round harbor it will feel wrong
past mauve
thank you very much @inner pulsar
inner pulsar
@past mauve Welcome
pure epoch
ss + scent of blood or double dose + blightborne infusion for this week?
wheat zealot
Idk if id roll with 2 non ss, but one of the two at 385 and x2 ss would feel decent me thinks
round harbor
Yeah, but it's same scenario. Dropping 105 total ilvls for the traits
385 vs 340s basically
inner pulsar
Just do what I do, look at the group finder, realize how much you hate people, say "Fuck it" and log off
true delta
Does anyone have a list of BiS gear? Dungeon and raid gear mixed.
inner pulsar
@true delta Doesnt exist because of WF and TF
round harbor
Just gotta know that any time u pug there is a 20% chance per person in your group that it will be a deplete and someone gonna facepull half the dungeon
inner pulsar
Get what you can get, sim it out, and keep on living your life
hollow stone
I mean, it TECHNICALLY exists but, yeah
inner pulsar
@hollow stone Oh good, you're here, I'll let you handle this question!
hollow stone
The bis question? Cause that one's solved 😉
round harbor
@true delta just get archive x3 385. Then get all the rest of your gear from m+ at 395 with sockets and avoidance or leech on it
inner pulsar
You left the door open with your "Technically", I expected him to walk right through it
hollow stone
Ah lol
true delta
@round harbor Well that sounds easy XD
hollow stone
I mean, bis is 3x 385 az pieces: 1 archive, 2 dd (this is just st). Then you need both weaps 395 w socket and speed on them cause speed is best; fuck leech n avoid. Then you need 400 ilvl haste/crit gear w sockets and speed
All require tf, weekly luck, and sockets
icy oar
what is good sim dps for 375 ish?
hollow stone
Which is why "bis" doesnt really exist in reality any more
17k
Anything under 17k is bad based on people posting sims here
calm grail
Yeah.
icy oar
don't see any 17k sims
hollow stone
Ask a dumb question, get a dumb answer
void pecan
🍆
inner pulsar
strange python
yeah but look at his azerite armor ilvl
calm grail
DiTB more like
calm grail
Damn is this boring
high wadi
hey guys... if i post my logs down here is anyone willing to have a quick look at them and tell me what i can do better and what i am doing wrong?
hollow stone
Also ilvl doesnt account for stat prios or sockets, or optimized trinkets
round harbor
Go for it
hollow stone
Or really anything other than epeen
inner pulsar
Can I guess before you post them?
high wadi
guess pls
strange python
inb4 30% garrote uptime
hollow stone
"More haste"
inner pulsar
Damn
hollow stone
Did i do it?
inner pulsar
I was going with uptime
strange python
86% dot uptime on fetid??
hollow stone
It was a trap, you coulda said any number and i would be correct 😃
high wadi
oh okay
strange python
72% uptime garrote on zek
U use scent for fetid
rofl
thats a bad trait for single target buddy
round harbor
Yeah the answer is almost always garrote rupture up times. Next most common is low ep uptimes
calm grail
Probably focused on the adds too much on Zek letting Garrote fall off.
At least I hope that's the case.
strange python
offhand is 345
hollow stone
Might sim highest for him... as unfortunate as that may be... i didnt look at logs for him tho
Just spitballin
grand trail
Need advice guys.. im doing only 12,5k dps as assa rogue on myth vectis
high wadi
ep is?
strange python
ur opener is wrong https://gyazo.com/3bb6f7790142638273713d4120b346e2
grand trail
how much value have those uldir traits
strange python
Its Garrote - Rup - Garrote
hollow stone
Youre doing m vect and are doing 12k...?
round harbor
@grand trail link log
grand trail
log isnt up
inner pulsar
............
grand trail
will be later on
round harbor
Then how can we help
calm grail
But even that opener isnt what killed his DPS.
grand trail
can i pm you in few min when log is up?
cyan frost
whats the best opener for 2 bosses? like the second boss on freehold
round harbor
Sure
high wadi
well these are the only traits i have :S
round harbor
@cyan frost g r tab g
hollow stone
I think i do 12k without poisons
inner pulsar
@high wadi Elaborate Planning by the way
cyan frost
@round harbor u dont wanna garrote then double garrote the 2nd?
strange python
@high wadi this is a mess https://gyazo.com/00b63bcbbd48557a8af33f66b849dfce
round harbor
U can.
strange python
ANd pop vendetta before vanish
grand trail
top dmg is 14k
wanton wagon
What's the MA opener again? Gonna try that shit out
inner pulsar
What/
strange python
check site for opener
inner pulsar
This is mythic, not LFR right>
hollow stone
We gotta see these logs
calm grail
G mut R Vendetta Vanish TB Mut Envenom
wanton wagon
ty
strange python
or G mut R TB VEn Vanish Mut Env
round harbor
there is other variations
inner pulsar
Haha yea
high wadi
so overall i have to check my opener, uptime on garrot and my sequence when i go vanish?
calm grail
Just make sure the toxic blade is empowered and you utilize or vanish window for at least one juicy ass thiccccc envenom
strange python
yes
round harbor
thats mine
pray for crit on your Ma mut so you can envm mut envm
probly not perfect, but it feels good
and does alot of dmgf
inner pulsar
ANd then quickly die, so you can tell them "Well I would have had an orange parse there if I didnt die...."
strange python
ur opener is kinda not optimal imo
hollow stone
Were you guys dying on transition or something, i cant get over 12k on m vectis lol
round harbor
michee how would you optimaize it
inner pulsar
Yeah, because it looks right to me
strange python
I wouldnt cast those 2 mutis after rup
round harbor
u want 5 cp going into vanish window
calm grail
That's the part that is up for debate but it's minimal the difference.
They both work
round harbor
why not do it for every vanish?
inner pulsar
No, why would it be?
round harbor
2 muts is 4cp with bad luck + 1 tb is 5
calm grail
I think people like to use the vanish window for a Crit TB sometimes.
At least the APL does.
high wadi
so the opener and vanish stuff, can i look that up anywhere?
strange python
Rank 1 M taloc https://gyazo.com/516a17829900b4d6679e2b3c4fd2f29d
high wadi
im rly bad in reading logs and analyzing them
round harbor
envm crit max was 49k, tb max crit was 25k
why would i wanna crit with tb over envm?
inner pulsar
Also, that wastes TB uptime on the mutilates
calm grail
I'm not sure why the APL was like that then.
inner pulsar
The screenshot you just posted I mean
high wadi
so which of these 2 openers you guys posted is prefered?
round harbor
yourm only gonna get 3 envms in tb window on opener no matter what
inner pulsar
But you aren't going to get 3 if you TB then Mut twice like that guy did are you?
round harbor
i did
inner pulsar
not you
strange python
round harbor
oh that one idk, its cut off
inner pulsar
Well we know that one is not right
round harbor
inner pulsar
Because it vanishes AFTER everything else@strange python
round harbor
yeah he got 3 envm off
humble plover
Why are there two sections labeled Master Assassin talented on the Ravenholdt guide?
calm grail
Michee that one's assuming Subterfuge use.
humble plover
^
inner pulsar
So there you go, literally just jam all the shit in there and you are good
high wadi
so what is the prefered opener now? and prefered azerite traits since i can only use that head 😦
high wadi
and i should use TB for raid?
strange python
use w/e sims more
round harbor
up to you
i hate exsang and will never use it no matter how good it is
so ill be tb ride or die
calm grail
When you are looking at your logs, how do you find your cast sequencem
high wadi
and i should sim every boss difrerently? are there any good presets? stuff like that?
calm grail
I'm trying to do it from Mobile and I'm having a hard time
round harbor
mobiel is hard, go to desktop mode and casts > timelines
calm grail
Got a 99 for a Taloc and I'm trying to figure out what my exact opener was
glacial steppe
molten moon
Do you guys always just sim ST? or do you change your raidbot settings for M+ sims?
hollow stone
And 30 adds up real fast when multi rupting
round harbor
niralath whats your in game name i can find it for you
hollow stone
Everyone has their own twist on m+ sims. Most use "no buffs, 40sec fight, 4-6 bosses"
slate dust
So I can pad all night
round harbor
molten moon
thanks @hollow stone
But i assume for a tyrannical week, might be a good idea to stick to ST sim anyway
hollow stone
Sims are simulations, that'll give you your "trash sim". Then you sim st. then you figure out how much % time is spent on trash v bosses, then you apply the % to the sims and that will give you "m+ sim"
Which is way more work than anyone wants to do
Sims good for giving you an idea on dmg since none of us are robots (except maybe seli/incarn)
calm grail
I just do 4 to 6 targets patchwerk 40 seconds no buffs.
hollow stone
Cant just accept them as gospel
calm grail
Also try to eyeball with the most successful rogues are doing.
What the*
And usually the two will correlate
hollow stone
Usually, yea. Just remember that a lot of people are still using their char's bis available over bis that they would use if they had
Law of large numbers, look at lots and extrapolate the data
Again, too much work
molten moon
Looking at some of the top rogues in M+ runs, everyone seems to be running exang and CT
calm grail
Yeah, so it's a good idea to keep an eye on that stuff but I've been watching players like Fragnance and Musclebrah and you can start to see trends
strange python
@strange python the opener looks so scuffed
hollow stone
Yea. Use trends, dont just assume because speedoflife or seli is "top rogue in m+" that their build is bis for you too
calm grail
Like Ive been stacking Crit and Mastery with 2SS and Archive for m+ and I don't use SS outside of M+
Mostly because my SS traits are 340 and 1 385
hollow stone
Niralath speaks the truth. Im just warning against getting sucked in to misinformation
calm grail
And my other 2 385s do better in raid.
Why I think the key to disseminating information is not just following it but asking yourself why.
Like why is Mastery better in Mythic plus but not raiding generally?
eager frost
Why do you vanish immediately? why not save it for a garrote
eager frost
yeah
calm grail
I'm using Master assassin not Subterfuge
strange python
https://gyazo.com/e7ae59278622fa308e4bd27023110e57
Can someone explain me why he is using vanish at that point?
And why he is using 4 Multilate?
That makes 0 sense to me!
hollow stone
I wanna inseminate your information when you talk logic dirty to me @calm grail
charred oar
what talents do we run for M+ Elaborate planning / Subterfuge / Deeper strat / Cheat death / iron wire / exsang / crimson?
calm grail
He's using vanish there to jack up his envenoms
strange python
By wich talent?
inner pulsar
@strange python And it isn't 4 mutilates, its counting each hand seperataly
calm grail
Master Assassin
hollow stone
Its no sub rogue burst
calm grail
Obviously it dips down pretty quickly.
hollow stone
But its pretty good
inner pulsar
@calm grail I saw that edit
eager frost
I might try that out but i just love shrouded suffocation so much for m+ might have to swap for raids
calm grail
The real takeaway here is don't use talents we are telling you to use, used talents that are best based on your gear.
Which unfortunately takes some simulating.
hollow stone
All the sims
calm grail
There is a very real chance that if I had different gear I would be using different talents.