dire spoke
Edward just outsmarted Ongbak
#assassination
candid mica
sometimes casting rupture on a low hp mob isnt worthless
but it depends on your tank
candid mica
and if it is the last mob or not
strange python
but usually u multi rapture before you start smashing envenom
candid mica
yea
strange python
so u dont need to rapture a low hp one often
frosty gyro
I stopped pressing buttons to pool energy and died to voidzone send help ๐
daring imp
lul
strange python
the only time i'd rapture low hp mob is when i know my tank is gonna pull another pack or boss right away
and i will have no energy
candid mica
gotta have enough energy for the triple garrote
strange python
i dont even use ss ๐
frosty gyro
Jesus I was gonna do something 6 hours ago but I spent 6 hours just chatting here
frosty gyro
Scent of Blood > SS ๐
frosty gyro
We spam rupture now
strange python
yeah scent is good for m+
archive too
pretty sure Seli runs 1x ss and 2x scent for m+
strong dome
i have 0 scent of blood so ๐
digital moss
What lvl key should one got crit/mastery
daring imp
fortified week, @strange python
frosty gyro
I have Lazer Matrix
daring imp
he mentioned it yesterday or two days ago not sure
daring imp
3x ss for tyrannical, ss + 2x scent fortified
daring imp
laser matrix best in slot for blowing up keys lul
strange python
laser ninja pulls
frosty gyro
laser matrix is god tier
strange python
- a lot *
frosty gyro
pull more mobs = faster clear ๐
daring imp
well it makes sense because in tyrannical trash won't live as long as fortified
daring imp
you'll do efficient dmg with the emp garrotes compared to if they live too long to kill them
frosty gyro
I actually had Laser Matrix proc on literally nothing
I finished a WQ and then stealthed and was doing something on my other monitor
After about 5 min laser matrix procced on some mob and it started killing me
daring imp
given you have the chance to build up enough ruptures*
strange python
well even on tyrannical weeks
trash lives for a while on higher keys
enough to get like 5-6 raptures going
daring imp
well we don't run with the dps' that seli does so
daring imp
for fortified weeks specially using scent might be a good idea
just not entirely sure about the tyrannical ones
strange python
i dont even run CT a lot in m+
frosty gyro
I want my vectis hat
daring imp
even though trash still lives long enough it still melts pretty quick on an avg group
vale scroll
getting any 385 piece ss or scent is good, so doesnt matter which one
strong dome
i run CT in everything except kings rest
daring imp
but on short ones nah, garrote still like 40+% dmg
strange python
depends
strange python
if i have strong aoe group like frost and some warlock
im not gonna bother with CT
frosty gyro
๐ค
daring imp
even more reason to pick ct, so stuff dies quick :X
candid mica
when stuff dies quick ct is bad
strange python
what if stuff already dies quickly
candid mica
you dont get much value from it
daring imp
it will reach a comfortable zone when you're doing 10's and up
strange python
i wish pb was just a a little bit stronger
candid mica
i don't
strange python
that it could compete on aoe
candid mica
pb needs to stay weak
daring imp
a zone where it will be enough for your emp garrotes to do their full dmg, and not too much so it will be outrun by other stuff
strange python
fk no
frosty gyro
What if sin had an ability that consumed 1 combo point ๐ค
daring imp
pb should be an active skill where we get charges on it by spending CPs
strange python
its just the dmg is really bad
strange python
@daring imp that was one of the ideas people gave on this discord during nighthold
i remember that well
good idea, but as we all know
blizzard throws these away
most of the time
strange python
it wouldnt be shitty
daring imp
i meant the dmg
candid mica
@strange python link some logs
strange python
if they buffed PB to legion level
daring imp
only the ability to select when it procs would be good enough compared to now
daring imp
but it was stupid on legion tho
candid mica
i just puked
strange python
literally pb every envenom
for first 15s
@candid mica my guild raid logs, i'm Tehsimi
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/CzDgWnf3QdjHcwJ1/
drifting cloud
its fixed
daring imp
ye
strange python
yes
grim mason
omfg!
civic palm
rupture*
spice surge
You can see his traits in the summary tab
strange python
right
grim mason
how do you see what opener someone uses in logs?
spice surge
Casts > Timelines
grim mason
thx
strange python
first of all
if u run 2x ss trait
i have Laser matrix + ele whirl on helm
archive + overwhelming power on shoulders
ss + unstable flames on body
im 99% sure exsang sims higher than TB
daring imp
if you don't have prepotions always have those with you
spice surge
You also casted more ruptures during TB than envenom, your primary goal for TB is to get as many envenoms as possible inside that window of increased damage
strange python
okoeay, i'll try that, but still for 70+ i'm still missing over 1k dps, does those changes increase my overall dps xith 1k atleast?
spice surge
No pots
keen urchin
hey new rogue here so sorry if it's a dumb question, but how come Shrouded Suffocation is given as a top trait on the ravenholdt guide and it sims like shit on bloodmallet/herodamage?
strange python
thats a lot of dps lost
spice surge
@keen urchin Note how there is a icon next to the SS trait on herodamage
Means another talent, subterfuge
strange python
so for opener i should try the pic someone sended?
spice surge
Bloodmallet sims everything with the same talent, herodamage does not
Yes siri, its also in the guide in the pins
keen urchin
@spice surge thanks ๐ didn't even notice it was in the list twice
jaunty crystal
opener is huge. Can be the difference from your opening burst being 20k or 25k tbh (or whatever number those are just rando examples)
strange python
i'll give that a go, see how it goes. it's just i was out of ideas as wow analyzer wasn't really helping
candid mica
you should get a fathoms deck to replace that construct overcharger if you can
grim mason
would it matter if my opener is G-R-G-TB-V?
strange python
ye, i replaced it this morning
grim mason
or V should always come before TB?
spice surge
Do you want 30% increased damage on TB, a hard hitting ability?
grim mason
hmm makes sense ๐ thx
keen urchin
second question, I'm unclear when is the optimal time to cast Exsanguinate aside from the opener?
after refreshing both dots?
spice surge
On CD, with as close to full dots as possible
keen urchin
great thanks
strange python
anyone i can pm or something if i have more questions? tomorrow is another raid day of my guild, i'll try to work on improving my opener
any other things i should really pay attention too?
arctic crystal
what energy do you guys usually pool before casting TB?
spice surge
Assuming the fight is longer than 3 mins you would lose out on a exsang cast doing that, which is terrible
quick fog
Probably like 75%
hollow cloak
what kind macro u have for galecallers boon
dreamy sky
I have watched Fragnance guide on his take for m+ assa but i cant seem to find it working anywhere near what i feel i should do with Exsanguinate or Crimson Tempest or any combo with the last 2 tiers, would it just be so simple as for me to get more mastery? My sim on 5 target 40sec is almost 30k but cant ever get close to that. Any ideas? Here's armory btw https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/silvermoon/Ninjaberit
keen urchin
should vanish be used on cooldown to reapply op garrote ?
strange python
@keen urchin presuming your usinf subterfuge then yes. With alignment of vendetta and hopefullt exang if talented
keen urchin
yup im playing with exactly that setup, thanks ๐
ember bobcat
do you delay third exsanguinate for vendetta
daring imp
@dreamy sky turn off bloodlust for simming 5t 40s
spice surge
@ember bobcat No you delay vendetta for exsang and vanish
All 3 should be up at 2.20
frosty gyro
@ember bobcat kinda depends. Most people use exsang on CD and delay vanish/vendetta for exsang. Some people with Galecallers delay exsang for gc
dreamy sky
@daring imp Yeah i do it with no bl
spice surge
Idk what people do. The sims show that lining them up at 2.20 is a gain, afterwards you want to use them independantly and on CD (or well, vanish and vendetta lines up since they have the same CD)
ember bobcat
okay so maximize uses of exsang. and do you cast vendetta before you vanish?
spice surge
You can line em up if you're certain you dont lose casts
languid ore
so is MA fotm?
spice surge
Or well, you should. But knowing kill times is pretty advanced
daring imp
for exsang it's tricky eleem because if fights end up before the line up again you end up losing 1 or 2 uses
languid ore
performing better than SS?
frosty gyro
@spice surge the sims show that because that's how they wrote the APL to act. I haven't seen anyone mopdify the APL to hold exsang for GCB but I've seen top parsing logs do it.
spice surge
No
They show that because before it didnt
and we tried different things
And chose the best one
frosty gyro
I mean when you "tried different things" does that include a fringe case with a specific trinket and SS?
spice surge
Holding exsang for gcb was a loss, and that was prenerf
frosty gyro
I mean I'd be interested in seeing those sims
spice surge
You can probably find it if you search in #tc-research
But as I said, if you know you won't lose casts ofc it's better to line em up
frosty gyro
Ah yeah I found it
glacial steppe
rotund cobalt
@glacial steppe yes it does
junior condor
so for m+ is there a list of which traits are best?
dark token
spice surge
Fair enough, most traits only got 1 slot which you can get it on high ilvl
glad zinc
should i have venom blade or what things say I should things say I shouldnt
dry tendon
So I simmed my azerite traits and there's not much difference between AotT and Shrouded Suffocation, so why do I see so many rogues running 2-3 SS instead of other traits?
dry tendon
alright, trust my sims then?
thorny jasper
dry tendon
reload
dry tendon
in a sanctuary?
dry tendon
honest needle
dry tendon
๐คท
strange python
pvp probably ss
young meteor
Read that 3x twist the knife or 3x SoB
strange python
yeah twist is also good
young meteor
But I don't pvp so not 100% positive.
north terrace
What's SoB again?
strange python
scent of bloods
vernal atlas
do we have a haste softcap?
glad zinc
guys guys should i be rollling venom blade or esang
spice surge
Twist is awful in pvp
80% less effective
1 SS and rest doesnt really matter, as long as you dont pick something truly awful. Scent/archives/battlefield are good
lofty sand
@glad zinc 
analog glade
Srly i have 20.00% But my sims want more!
( haste )
I sims with x5 Array
20.00% Base
errant mauve
is meticulous scheming a worthwhile trait?
fading ocean
!ss
hazy iron
it's working fully as intended, now
fallen sandal
lmao @spice frost fuck you with your 2x 385 dagger โค
strong nimbus
guys should i switch my 340 ss for an 370 glory in battle ?
fallen sandal
simit
gloomy wadi
is there macro for vendetta +trinket?
candid mica
/use 14
gloomy wadi
/14
candid mica
and put the trinket in the bottom trinket slot
gloomy wadi
I don't understand a word u saying
candid mica
#showtooltip
/cast Vendetta
/use 14
spice frost
@fallen sandal i bonus rolled the socket one tonight. got the base one first week of mythic
fallen sandal
you're lucky tho
gloomy wadi
@candid mica and where do i put the trinket?
gloomy wadi
what is bottom trinket slot
candid mica
cunning needle
forest patio
does vendetta increase rupture damage for the duration of vendetta or until it rupture expires
civic palm
#assassination > _>
rapid sierra
hey guys, quick question. Is holding onto tb worth it if you know your next combo spender is gonna be rup
cunning needle
10/10 bias mizerok ๐
daring imp
@rapid sierra i just press whenever it comes off cd but i try to plan stuff beforehand tho
rapid sierra
@daring imp aye, i'm with you there bud, but I find i come into situations when it comes off cd and rup has the 6-8 secs left, is it better to pop tb to keep the cd rolling and take the rup combo point within its window or wait for potentially another envenom but also maybe delay the next tb by 5-10?
exotic glen
i'd say if you have the combo points and energy ready to use rupture, then do that then tb
if not then tb
rapid sierra
so even using rup in the tb window isnt a dps loss?
daring imp
well you can also pop rupture with 3~4cp and then tb>muti>env
also if you use MA make sure you line up tb buff within MA buff
exotic glen
it is a dps loss ofc, you want as many envenoms as possible in tb window
but that is over ideal situations
do what you can to minimize your dps loss in situations like this
rapid sierra
i think thats the core of my question, is it better to env in a tb window when you know your rup is gonna tick off in 3-4 secs or keep it up and lose the buffed dmg
keen hound
ayyyyyy just got 370 GCB ๐
daring imp
well given you must never let rupture fall then my answer would be a no
you can also always get 4~5cp and pool until tb comes off cd, then you pop rupture before popping tb
so tb > mut > env will get ep buff
rapid sierra
that's what I have been going with, i feel its a skill level to cap the energy beforehand, which i am learning to do
daring imp
well just gotta get the hang of it
rapid sierra
but when i get myself in situations where its either keep rup up or env within tb then rup is the way to go
daring imp
yep
harsh glacier
getting another env off is worth r falling off
daring imp
try to remember that once you do a rupture with 4 or 5 cp inside tb, the next one will be cast before tb
rapid sierra
i guess it depends on boss hp too?
daring imp
how so?
harsh glacier
Tyrarolls was saying that getting another env off in tb window is better than refreshing rup
like last night
rapid sierra
is it worth getting the 3-4 ep and then pooling to max before popping tb then?
daring imp
well, it's hard to know the exact amount of difference between the two because it really is such a small difference in deeps
harsh glacier
I mean you should always use rupture with 4-5 cp
rapid sierra
aye ofc, but the tb is gonna give you 1-2
daring imp
ideally you never cast rupture inside tb
harsh glacier
Use the tb cp for env
harsh glacier
ideally you dont want to wait to pop rupture after tb comes off cd, but its better to wait 1-2 gcds before popping to refresh rupture if you have to
rapid sierra
because tb lasts the few gcds?
harsh glacier
to build the cp for rupture before using tb
like if you have 2 cp and tb comes off cd, its better to mut > r > tb than to tb > r
rapid sierra
so its better to 4-5 rup outside of pandemic and then go into tb?
yeah im with you, always pop it beforehand if you can
harsh glacier
I only ever use rupture with 4-5 cp unless boss is nearly dead
not really too sure about specific pandemic timings though
tidal sedge
what talents are people running for uldir?
daring imp
exs/tb, MA/subt, pb/ct, mostly EP
depends on azerite traits/ilvl, secondary stats, everything
rapid sierra
aye, i think what im doing is ok, i;m trying to rup beforehand, but if i cant and its in pandemic / tb window i env, otherwise its keeping dots up
would you agree?
round harbor
When be in doubt just do what hekili says xd
It's what I do lol
Helps me remember to refresh my shit
strange python
Hey all, I posted earlier asking for help in regards to improving, and I've come back again with a similar log, I put this through the wow analyzer and it said "No Major issues" but if thats the case why am I parsing for 48% ilvl?
main blaze
ilvl parse is pretty bad stat. You have a 78% parse which is fine enough
strange python
I thought it mean that "Compared to players who have similar gear as you you played at a 48th percentile level"
round harbor
3:48 heroic fetid killtime NotLikeThis
daring imp
i say that's because of kill speed
round harbor
That's more it
main blaze
Yeah but I can equip a 280 ilvl wrist and have an overall ilvl of 350 and do 20k dps
daring imp
no major issues on rotation
round harbor
We kill it in like 1:30-1:50
main blaze
It doesnt happen but ilvl parse is just a secondary measure on how well you did.
round harbor
Even in our shitter alt runs it's under 2 minute kills
main blaze
Kill it faster and your parse % will go up
daring imp
remember bois, can only parse high on ghuun by padding stuff
strange python
I see
oblique kindle
Hi, can somebody tell me how much dmg increase is 100agility? Thanks
oblique kindle
Well let's say thst I don't care stat weights. I want know how much %dmg increase i will have from 3stack SoB on 5 targets :)
harsh glacier
@strange python I think you're still not doing the opener right
looks like you did garrotte > garrotte > rup > mut
should be garrotte > mut > rupt > garrotte (or 2 muts depending on ss)
candid mica
no
garrote rup garrote mut rup
ven/exsang
vanish when garrote falls off for a new one
harsh glacier
I mean the ravenholdt site says g>m>r>v>m>r>v>g>ex
candid mica
scroll down a bit more
harsh glacier
I mean he's still doing it wrong either way
strange python
I believe It should be G>R>G>M>V+Trink>R>Ex
harsh glacier
if he doesnt have ss I think the one I gave is right
strange python
if its not that then it is an error on my part
harsh glacier
you opened with 2 garrottes, idk if it makes a huge difference or not
but on a short fight like fetid, maybe it messes up your exsg dps a bit
candid mica
he does have ss
dapper moat
!ss
daring imp
@oblique kindle better to sim it because i think no one here can do that kind of math mate
bold edge
How do i sim for m+?
earnest quiver
why do you open with garrote -. rupture -> garrote rather than garrote -> garrote -> rupture
hollow stone
Longer ss emp garrote by 1 sec
earnest quiver
ohh good point ty!
round harbor
daring imp
@bold edge 3~6 targets, 40s~1min fights, no lust, maybe flask/food/prepotion only and other buffs your comp might have
hollow stone
It also sets up your 5cp pand rupt for your xsang
hollow stone
That shadowstep for style points?
round harbor
Gotta make sure in range
hollow stone
๐
round harbor
Tanks pull him to middle for some reason pol
daring imp
hollow stone
More like style step naw mee?
bold edge
@daring imp im in stat weights whats the fight style?
daring imp
patchwerk or light movement maybe
quick junco
is shrouded suffocation still the way to go? herodamage/bloodmallet seem to rank several other traits as higher?
grim mason
ss x's 3 for M+
exotic glen
SS is also for exsang build
quick junco
is it worth using less than 3 until i get the pieces?
exotic glen
raid or m+
quick junco
both
exotic glen
m+ you want ss or scent of blood
in raids you want at least one archive or lazer matrix then SS if you play exsang
quick junco
does simming it accurately represent SS dps?
carmine valve
2ss + 1 Archive vs 3 ss in m+?
exotic glen
3ss if equal ilvl
still hare
3ss all the way
lost sentinel
oh they actually fixed the SS bug?
I've been doing it wrong then for the last couple days ๐ฆ
tender frost
Question, I never really thought of this.. but does applying garrote 2 times extend the timer or does it stack ? regarding the vanish, gar x2 with SS
- Vanish when Garrote runs out
- Garrote twice
exotic glen
if you refresh a dot before it runs out, the time left will be added on to the next cast
this has a cap of 30% of the max duration
its called pandemic
so when you double garrote, you want the extra few seconds that the 30% duration is to be added on top
tender frost
thanks
marsh bloom
How do we use elaborate planning most optimally
mystic shadow
rip
worldly orbit
yo, im running 2x SS and 1x archive atm for m+, do you think it would be worth running 3x SS?
primal sigil
anyone have an idea if i should be holding exsang for galecallers in say a 4-5 mins fight
crisp hollow
for spenders in general should i be pooling energy to ensure I keep EP up as long as possible?
marsh bloom
EP?
peak saffron
elaborate planning
fossil quarry
man i thought 2 SS was gonna give me a 5 bar each time, weak
soft steppe
karmic ingot
Yep
long osprey
Did AOTT get nerfed? On my helm slot an equal ilvl item with double dose Sims higher.
I should add I have the 370 AOTT shoulders as well. Thought stacking was the way to go
runic ferry
@worldly orbit most definitely 3x SS is the best in m+
as long as you utilize the multidotting correctly
@long osprey wouldn't be suprised if sims doesnt count the reorination array
long osprey
I'm a lazy SOB and use raidbots. They've got the manual input for RA stacks. Thought the straight up stat stick from the trait was better than all traits of similar ilvl. Maybe I'm just living in a fantasy land however
runic ferry
it probably is
in uldir
like, when i sim my stat weights, i get almost 1 agi = 1 haste
so thats like two additional flasks on top of the azerite trait
next grotto
y
raven mica
Hell yeaaaaaaa unfortunately I only have one SS piece and itโs 340
marsh bloom
Elaborate planning tips?
tender frost
Lookin for some popular rogues that main Sin to learn from, youtube, twitch, whatever. Either in EN/FR.. much appreciated.
civic palm
SIN BFA GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ <-- SIN GUIDE HERE
frail sky
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
normal ridge
the best talents for M+? a friend say me 2-2-2-2-2-2-1
craggy helm
Vigor over deeper strategem. Otherwise, that is accurate if you're running SS traits (which you should be)
normal ridge
normaly use virgor but i check the m+ talents and see Deeper Stratagem
ebon prism
is 3x SS for M+ still the best combo even if it's 340 vs 370?
ebon prism
i do for one of them. need to farm the helm from shrine now :/
still hare
Scent of Blood in one piece also works very nice
still hare
Depends
If you are running higher m+ and are aiming for crit/mastery over haste you should keep that scent piece
ebon prism
im at 24% crit, 31% mastery so.... maybe better to do 3x SS
still hare
Youโre fine, you might want to get a little more mastery
And you wanna go for 3ss on Tyranical weeks
ebon prism
ty
normal ridge
why vspeed musclebrah etc playing this week sub?
is better than assa for affix?
in m+?
ebon prism
musclebrah is playing sub in M+ this week?
still hare
Yep, due forti
normal ridge
yes muscle is full sub this week
ebon prism
are you guys swapping back to sub too? im main sub but i do sin for M+
normal ridge
im preferer sub is more funny than assa, but assa is best option i think so but in this week all pros m+ in sub
still hare
Iโll keep sin, especially for higher mobility bosses
potent rune
!ss
high nova
Should you still go for SS traits postnerf or is icyveins guide not up to date?
steep obsidian
high nova
idk how accurate the sims are, since as you said, in M+ we can restealth a lot and hit multiple targets with it
is the additional damage from SS on Garrote per TICK?
sinful fable
So, a question regarding opening from stealth. I engage the pack in, let's say, a mythic+ and I use Subterfuge. Is my main prio at all times to apply garrote as much as I can in that opening window?
or should I open with garrote, apply rupture, then garrote something else? or is garrote > all?
hollow orbit
ornate mantle
does the ss trait gives you a noticeable amount of dps?
strange python
im not entirely sure what 100 tier talent i should run in m+. I know its optional but whats your opinions?
timber pewter
i believe its poison bomb for most cases unless its a trash heavy dungeon. For example you would use CT for shrine since there are so many tidesage initiates and other trash grouped up
nova gazelle
It all depends on affixes, ur group and dungeon tbh
marsh bloom
any tips for elaborate planning?
keen spruce
haste is back on the menu boys
@marsh bloom uhh there's some ways to min/max it for a few extra dps
but there are more important things to focus on
until you're on the cutting edge
just enjoy the extra damage when you finish
ebon prism
is titan and laser useless in M+?
keen spruce
not useless not great
laser can sometimes pull packs
they're both outside the top 10 traits
when outside of raid
SS still great in M+
hushed maple
Hey can you guys write an Assa opener? I use 1x SS and do it as follows:
Garrote, Rupture, Garrote, Multilate, Rupture, Vendetta, 4+ CP Envenoms and use Poisoned Blade on CD
valid moss
maybe use pins
cold meteor
TB or Exs ?
cold meteor
I ask you what you used
hushed maple
TB
hushed maple
But then you only have max Garrote and normal Rupture
cold meteor
you can also check the Timelines on top logs
wary chasm
I don't get why people love TB so much I sim higher and in actual usage do better dps with exs in both raids and m+
cold meteor
I prefer Exsang also
wary chasm
only have 1150 haste also
cold meteor
but in raid, TB sim higher for me
And has i'm not here to do figuration, I pick what does most dps for my spec
broken crypt
Esang is workin for me
cold meteor
@hushed maple https://puu.sh/BH4A7/cd600803e7.png
wary chasm
Not using a stack of SS?
cold meteor
This guy have 1archive, 1SS, 1TtS
wary chasm
Vanish G,G,R at the end for me and exsang where he TB's otherwise identical I roll 1 SS, 1 Archive, 1 PW
jaunty arrow
yo is ss still worth to use?
twin hatch
Against 3+ u put rapture on all tars or just on main and than spam fok and ct? same q vs 4+
fossil quiver
does double does get effect from master poisoner?
rotund ridge
exsanguinate on cooldown or with galecallers?
chrome umbra
With galecallers.
rotund ridge
thx โค
spice surge
No
On CD
Unless you are 100% sure you will not miss a cast (ie fight ending in 35 seconds)
@rotund ridge
https://i.imgur.com/9V9s8Af.png
Search for galecaller in #tc-research If you want to see the discussions (note that it was pre SS nerf as well, meaning that it should be even worse now)
wheat spire
keen spruce
There's no "in love" with TB
if it sims higher I use it
if my gear changes and exang sims higher, i'll use that
If you don't have to, you shouldn't be using SS in raid anyways
@fossil quiver I don't think so
Master poisoneer only affects normal rogue poisons iirc
barren forge
@keen spruce haste you said? ๐ https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/x1zmnrJsAauP6PUgRkDELZ
barren forge
19.32 haste in og ๐
frosty gyro
@spice surge Real difference would be in a fight that lasts about 4:20 vs a fight that lasts about 4:50
high siren
frosty gyro
I haven't gotten a single upgraded trinket yet :(
frosty gyro
I don't get why cannon is so good for outlaw
Is it not rppm
Maybe it's because of the expected uptime of shark and they all scale with crit ๐ค
It's just weird to see al the proc trinkets on top
And of course Fathoms is better than any trinket for outlaw unless you have a 390 proc trinket
weak pine
I should buy fathoms but I'm out of gold
spice surge
Prob because you're fishing so much for ruthless so you have a high crit % a lot of the time
frosty gyro
Yeah it's gotta be that
spice surge
And they generally have lower scaling per point as well, making stats less efficient
frosty gyro
Raidbots i 5 min tests right?
spice surge
By default yes
frosty gyro
So galecallers sync has 2nd burst at ~4:10 while exsang on CD has 2nd burst at ~4:40
So it makes sense that a 5 min test would show it higher
Really just a fight length thing
frosty gyro
Oh wait I'm thinking 3rd one
spice surge
Not all are 300
None would have sync at 2.10, because you would want to wait till 2.20
(unless you want to exsang without vanish)
spice surge
Well yes
frosty gyro
Man in my M taloc kill this week he died like 2 seconds after vanish came off CD
Should have synced galecallers
๐
weak pine
I sim higher with TB than exang
spice surge
But knowing fight timing and planning out your cds is way out of leauge for people who just got here and want to know wether you run exsang or tb. So recommending the generally best strat is typically prefered
frosty gyro
K use TB where it's good?
I mean knowing fight timing is basically impossible for most people
weak pine
Use TB pretty much on CD
frosty gyro
Because who knows how much better all the other DPS are going to perform week to week
Unless a fight has strict timers
No I mean use Tb for fights where it is good
There are some fights where you shouldn't use TB even if it sims higher probably
spice surge
Generally its a pretty steady increase (except the first weeks)
frosty gyro
Unless you have DDs
spice surge
A couple of seconds shorter every week
But thats for mythic, if youre pugging hc
You have no clue
frosty gyro
But then you also have to take into account people possibly messing up and dying
Which can throw it a ton
inner hull
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
gray stone
is there a wa that tracks ss empowered garrotes?
weak pine
You mean subterfuge empowered garrotes?
grave pagoda
trippe SS is best for m+ right? archive the the itans is only usefull in raid right?
desert pelican
hm, simcraft suggest me to gimp haste to 900 base, isnt it too low for st -_- 70 ilvl
frosty gyro
1+ SS is good in M+
Archive/other stat traits aren't bad either although SS is generally the best
Unless your grouip does big pulls and then SoB becomes better after 1SS
ornate mantle
whats SoB?
frosty gyro
Scent of Blood
ornate mantle
oh
desert vault
I'm still running two so and one archive in m+ and it's still strong
hushed maple
SS is the WORST trait for AoE according to Bloodmallet
hushed maple
Doesnt Bloodmallet looo for general dps instead of specific talents?
faint harness
No it uses a simc profile
and that profile is using master assassin because that talent is best if you got 0 SS traits
quick junco
looking to switch to assassination from sub, my only SS trait atm is on a 340 chest, but i've got a 370 with dagger in the back or twist the knife. I'm guessing SS probably isn't worth it yet?
faint harness
what content are you doing
quick junco
a little of both raids and m+. I'd like to push more m+ though
quick junco
what are the best options to sim that correctly? Another person last night said that sims struggle with SS since it doesn't currently account for restealths
worldly orbit
4-6 boss patchwerk 40 second no buff
quick junco
thanks โค
for raids, does SS still win out over the higher simming traits like double dose?
spice surge
SS is better for trash double dose better for bosses
Herodamage has an approximation of a mythic dungeon you can look at
dim pivot
So question no one answered me in pvp which Azerite traits do people use dd?
quick junco
have that up now eleem, thanks
dim pivot
Gotcha
quick junco
in my experience so far, this is the best of the class discords โค
spice surge
Tbf most traits are pretty useless in pvp outside of the first SS for extra CP. But DD is just too random when you dont have envenom up
dim pivot
I been playin outlaw made it to 1800 but after that I just feel like sin is so much better at that point
lone junco
It's funny to dot up a team like a warlock then line up the double env and fuck someone's day.
dim pivot
Lol
lone junco
The 5cp env on garrote rupture. Then mark env again.
dim pivot
See I got 2xDd at 385 and 1 370 focus soo
lone junco
Tb env. Mark env.
dim pivot
Why I thought I could go farther with sin
vernal atlas
k... seems like after playing with simcraft a lot our haste softcaps lieas around 1.2k haste
solid nova
Your haste value drops*
sage ice
whats better? 3x shrouded suffocation or 2x shrouded suffocation and 1x archive of the titans
for mythic+
pure umbra
Second option i guessz
frosty gyro
Haste softcap lul
vernal atlas
softcap != useless. only means other stats start to scale better
so "Haste softcap lul" is a pretty inaccurate statement
cuz you WILL reach taht point
frosty gyro
haste only softcaps if you're using galecallers
Otherwise at like 1600 haste it's still more valuable than agility
vernal atlas
depends on your agility
winter fog
so we're finally allowed to garrote all the targets?
supple hearth
@winter fog ye
crude sundial
At the risk of hearing "check the pins", what 100 talent do you all run for mythic+?
frosty gyro
It depends on affixes and group
strange python
Hi :)
frosty gyro
I run poison bomb for most dungeons because in my experience with bolstering + infested people like to cc mobs and pull smaller packs/single mobs
If you do larger pulls use CT
And CT is generally better on fortified, while poison bomb can be better on tyrannical
Kinda depends on dungeon too some just have larger mob packs
late vessel
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/dF69r56vhkcY3VyXBkxEtE
Why is haste so much better for me than agility?
crude sundial
well pray for me @frosty gyro . first dungeons as mut....motherlode 9.
strange python
๐๐๐๐
frosty gyro
Motherlode is a pretty good dungeon to use CT in there are a lot of larger pulls
And the bosses are easy
strange python
1 
equels 1 prayer
flint swift
I did a mother lode 9 a couple days ago. Itโs actually really easy on these affixes just use tricks every pull lol
frosty gyro
I wonder if I'll ever remember to switch to Iron Wire ๐ค
ebon garden
is there any situation where you dont take iron wire? 
frosty gyro
Idk I just like to kidney shot things at a DPS gain ๐ค
But I know I should use iron wire
6 second kidney is like the same thing as a silence and enemy damage reduction right ๐ค
frosty gyro
but in that case I lose DPS
:(
It's like a 2% damage loss according to the only M+ I've done that someone logged
ebon garden
eh, i would accept that for better control of casters and less damage overall on the tank
frosty gyro
Yeah that's why I said I know I should use Iron Wire
glad vapor
i rather keep kidney for mechanical things in mythic + rather than a dps things
drifting pulsar
have blizz<rd broken shrouded suff trait ? its only giving me extra combopoints like 1 out of 3 times when i use it from stealth
frosty gyro
No you're just doing it wrong
drifting pulsar
go in stealth. walk over to the boss and use garrote. Only gives me 1 cp
frosty gyro
You got unstealthed or don't have the right gear equipped
drifting pulsar
not unstealthed since i got the empowered garrote, just not the extra cp. and i have the piece on
drifting pulsar
i messed up on every boss in hellfire citadel. With my standard opener i am using basically every day ?
frosty gyro
It's not bugged no one has reported anything similar it's just user error that you didn't realize
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
Do you have a log of this occuring?
Like where did it happen are you in raid?
drifting pulsar
I did a hellfire citadel transmog run
sinful fable
Quick question, I asked earlier but can't seem to find the answer in the search bar. In aoe situations like m+ and openers from stealth. Prio is apply 3 garrotes on 3 targets within subterfuge-window and nothing else, right? After that I can start applying rupture on stuff
frosty gyro
Yeah basically
frosty sundial
I've had the same thing happen in tmog runs-- it only happens when you're pulling the boss
drifting pulsar
yeah
simple gulch
What are the best pvp azerite traits for assasin rogues?
sinful fable
and after those 3 empowered garrotes expire, if there is enough HP left on the mobs, I should just vanish and apply another 3 garrotes then continue doing my thang?
ebon garden
in that case just report a bug for it glowpipe, but its not like you dont 1shot dungeon bosses anyway
frosty gyro
Oh if you're using it in tmog runs yes there's a bug
Not current content though
@sinful fable yeah basically
winter fog
@simple gulch scent of blood and 1x SS
drifting pulsar
Will do
frosty sundial
!ss
ebon garden
fixed @frosty sundial
frosty sundial
nice i heard that runor
simple gulch
what is SS?
spice surge
I mean, is it a rumour if its in official blizzard notes?
simple gulch
Is scent of blood still good in 2s arenas?
frosty sundial
so its safe to spread outside of subterfuge without losing bonus?
desert vault
Well I guess a 355 dice will have to do, sadness. So many 370s I've seen but its better than nothing
frosty sundial
perhaps i didnt see the notes?
frosty gyro
Yeah they fixed it
simple gulch
@winter fog what is SS?
ebon garden
shrouded suffocation
winter fog
^
simple gulch
so sob and ss? what else? or does sob stack?
desert vault
heh 340 to 355 dice a whopping 90 dps gain ๐
ebon garden
at least i got a 340 spyglass from emissary that i can use in dungeons 
frosty gyro
I want a 395 crawg gnawed femur
desert vault
I just need to get my gear optimized better, such trash stats and garbage sims, only 12.1k at 360
frosty gyro
Link sim?
simple gulch
So just SS and SoB? what about third trait?
desert vault
sec, have to re-run cause I had my m+ set on
simple gulch
it stacks?
frosty gyro
Yeah
simple gulch
ok ty
so i got retaliatory fury and twist the knife on my 340 helm
which one is betteR?
pvp
frosty gyro
I think it's doing your azerite gear wrong?
slender hare
@simple gulch all traits stack
limber granite
vestal abyss
I'm still confused as to why people randomly post their sim without context
quaint flare
simple gulch
/flex
i can't find any website that shows which assa pvp traits are the best
lmao
gleaming geyser
You flex with logs not random ass no context sims
hollow cloud
just get some good traits
quaint flare
desert vault
@frosty gyro what you mean? Just using junk like PW?
I have really bad azerite pieces, I have two 355s, and one 370, that's it
Oh wait, you mean simming it wrong, my bad misread there
desert vault
I don't know why I sim so low, but I'm not really worried about it until I get caught up either. I've only been back for two weeks of Uldir clears
cursive cloak
Guys, I currently have a 340 High alt turban for raids and I ues the cowl of fluid mach for m+ but I have the Uldir helm in my bags, should I be using that instead of them 2 ?
supple hearth
Might be easier if u specify the traits rather than the item name
cursive cloak
So double dose on the high alt turban, SS on the cowl and Archive on the helm
vague portal
Anyone with some free time that can take a look at my logs? raided last nite with my rogue and would like some feedback to get better. thanks
placid elbow
@desert vault , i know how you feel lol. I feel like i sim pretty low for my ilvl ๐ฆ
lone junco
taking a few weeks off. dm me for sweet bugs or lols.
grim mason
@vague portal what were you shrouding on that tol fight in the opener?
narrow gust
i was wondering how u guys keep trak of the debuffs/dots on the enemies?
grim mason
!WA
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
narrow gust
ah
grim mason
weak auras @narrow gust
narrow gust
are they all equally good?
grim mason
for me too much cluster on my screen
so i go for what i want, in other words tweak em to your liking
vague portal
@grim mason shroud ? i used cloak on the debuff from taloc
simple gulch
what are good pvp traits other than Sob and ss
grim mason
all i track is poisons, pandemic, garrote rup
yeah I meant cloak
isn't cloack on the global?
vague portal
i got the pool debuff and panicked and used cloak
grim mason
god I cant type
spice surge
@vague portal 1. Your opener is really odd, check the guide in the pins here for the proper one.
2. Your garrote and rupture uptime should be as close to 100% as possible, ~80% is bad and makes you lose out a LOT of damage and energy.
3. You are holding vendetta & vanish on a lot of fights thus making you miss out on casts. (most fights in the logs you linked you missed one cast of them)
grim mason
^^^ agree
vague portal
so im confused on vendetta is that something i use after i have evrything on the target or before?
grim mason
check the guide
read the tool tip
it should be used before TB
makes you hit hard by 30%
jolly lodge
quick question. are we pooling for env? i couldnt find anything in the guide so i suppose we aren't, correct?
vague portal
ok so im looking at the guide from the site what does no ss for toxic blade one or more ss for toxic blades mean
grim mason
so generaly you want it when all your dots are up and when you can envenom
SS is a azerite trait
grim mason
Shrouded Suffocation
vague portal
so one or more means if i have ss on one piece correct
spice surge
One or more
grim mason
yes sir
spice surge
Yes
vague portal
so if i dont have no ss i go with the first rotation
grim mason
yep
vague portal
i though that meant the ss buff and i was looking for it in my debuffs
so i was waiting for it thats why my rotation sucks
again first time playing him since i mainly tank
grim mason
understandable
but if you saw my logs you would throw up, lol i'm trash because i get add when I am raiding and waiting on people to pull or get their shit together
vague portal
also some of those pulls were kinda like here we go
lol
some i was not even on stealth or prepot or anything
grim mason
triggers me so when we do start I am like watching youtube on the other screen sigh
I should really get it together
vague portal
ty for the help
grim mason
work on the opener
after awhile like everything else humans do it becomes muscle memory
vague portal
yeah i can tell i was all over the place , i mean i WAS all over the place
grim mason
G>R>G>V>TB>EN just remember that and dont let your rup fall off
I believe you wait for that 1st G to fall off then vanish G>G>En
chilly hazel
huh anyone got any idea what happened? my stat weight changed from yesterday and i didnt update simulation craft or anything
chilly hazel
oh nvm i got it
spice surge
Any changes to rogue simc will be posted in #tc-updates always
chilly hazel
wow, got a Galecaller with 5 more ilvl yesterday and apperently everything changes
didnt think it would change this much xD
frosty gyro
@desert vault had to run a M+ but in the sim you linked it wasn't using any azerite traits as far as I could tell
Could explain why the sim is so low
Your stats aren't that bad
strange python
Can anyone share a good heroic Zul parse?
fading spade
I go sub for that fight.
desert vault
i wonder why its not using anything ... that is weird
frosty gyro
Here's mine it's only a 95 https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/FK1tdDJjVPCbw7GA#fight=28&type=damage-done
desert vault
maybe my simc addon is old?
frosty gyro
Heroic Zul assassination is fine because the adds die super ffast and you don't have to focus specific ones
You only use sub for mythic tho
fading spade
"Its only a 95" nbd just parsed better than 95% of you fucks lmao
frosty gyro
Well I mean
strange python
Do I just Tunnel Zul?
fading spade
Bro I was teasing
calm grail
Whenever I get less than a 99 I hit myself.
frosty gyro
I just split dot zul and the crusher
strange python
I rather look at someones from here so i can ask questions haha
frosty gyro
throw a CT on the crawgfs
molten reef
Probably been asked before but is Shrouded Suffocation still best after nerf?
fading spade
My guild uses the zerg strategy so they're all clumped up and its ST zul and cleave adds
frosty gyro
Best multitarget/M+ until you start large pulling
fading spade
I'm gonna try sin next time they do it
calm grail
Only 18s I've seen done have been with a sin rogue.
So maybe once you have stuff on farm sub is better for chain pulling in m+ but for pushing probably Sin.
frosty gyro
Zul reborn 18?
desert vault
trying to download a new copy of simc, see if that helps anything
strange python
Kirvin, so when you start you multidot , then focus zul and crusher, do you ever go for hexers or just stay on zul and crusher when in range?
frosty gyro
Your traits were messed up
@strange python well there's only 1 hexer and it dies so fast I don't bother to hit it with anything besides maybe my fok/ct I throw out
strange python
there is 2 in heroic
frosty gyro
There's just 1
frosty gyro
My guild just ccs the hexers that spawn and burns
desert vault
Yeah, I see it now just had a simc addon or something
frosty gyro
That's not how you do it once you have good dps
You just cc both and burn zul
And keep them cced rest of fight
strange python
We have good DPS how do you suggest?
desert vault
Hmm, I wish I had some SoB traits. Want to do two SoB and one SS in M+, that would be fun
strange python
Ok so CC both and burn to 40%
desert vault
or even just one SoB, SS, Archive
frosty gyro
SoB is only really good if you are pulling huge packs
desert vault
oh? like 5+?
frosty gyro
Idk what the breakpoint is
desert vault
I'm doing decent numbers with 2x SS and 1 Archive
frosty gyro
That's what my guild does
We have the dps for it
Yeah 2x SS and an archive will be quite good
I have 2x SS and Laser Matrix
God bless LAser MAtrix BiS M+ trait
desert vault
and can you not swap gear sets in m+ anymore?
frosty gyro
No
desert vault
I have a laser too, I thought someone said Archive was better than Laser?
frosty gyro
It's a joke laser matrix is like the buggiest proc trait and can randomly pull shit if you get uinlucky
calm grail
Archive and 2SS is where it's at.
desert vault
yeah that is what I thought ๐
frosty gyro
Yeah archive 2ss is good
desert vault
That thing, laser, is scary just going off like crazy
I need to learn how to pvp to get the 355 SS chest
frosty gyro
What?
desert vault
and get exalted to get the 370 piece, so many things I need to do
frosty gyro
You don't need to learn to pvp lol
You just do daily arena/bgs
Also what 370 exalted piece?
desert vault
isn't there one you can buy? from ... someone ... forget who
grim mason
yeah what exalt 370 piece?
frosty gyro
CoA has a 355 exalted chest
grim mason
meh 355
desert vault
oh maybe that was it
frosty gyro
All the other exaslted stuff is 350
remote oriole
construct overcharger or azerokks resonating heart? They're both equally as bad on bloodmallet but i wanna see u what u guys think..
subtle leaf
Is Fathom's still the best trinket to get with Mythic progression? my ilvl 370 Construct Overcharger and Frenetic Corpuscle is still simming lower than Fathoms + Galecaller. That's just crazy
grim mason
Should be gale and Loaded shouldnt it
wheat zealot
Raid trinkets are trash so thats really not suprising
subtle leaf
355 trinket shouldnt outperform heroic uldir ones imo. it's nuts that you could buy one of the best ones outside of raid
pure epoch
Subterfuge bug is fixed alredy or no?
pure epoch
garrote dmg i mean
lusty drift
What exactly was bugged about it?`
cold meteor
fixed
grim mason
so basically it was bugged if you applied garrote after your first thee while subterfuge was up it would overite the three you did in subterfuge, I believe
craggy helm
The first 3 would lose the bonus damage from the SS trait. Now they don't. So garrote freely!
lusty drift
nice, i like that
weak pine
Basically when you applied a garrotte the game checked if you were stealth/in subterfuge window. If yes, then it ticked a box for extra garrotte damage globally which would instantly apply to all your active garrottes. Similarly if you cast garrotte outside stealth/sub window it would untick it and all your bleeds would lose the effect.
It was fixed few days ago
subtle leaf
ah, thanks. i was still worried trying to reapply
weak pine
On October 4th to be precise
craggy helm
Speaking of which, does anyone know the comparison of damage? I.e. how many seconds of garrote and rupture (individually) does it take to overcome say... A 5 CP envenom
strange python
is there a way to track the SS empowered garrote separately?
subtle leaf
mannn why gotta nerf 3x shroud lol those were the days
craggy helm
Always unsure with a mob with say 150k hp left whether or not I should garrote and rupture or just spam mut env