Currently bursting upwards to 30k (if poison bomb is with me)
#assassination
quick void
Atleast I did on last HC runs.
edgy latch
not finding info on it
quick void
Nerf?
high siren
you mean darkmoon ?
strange zodiac
so exsang makes bleeds on other targets speed up too?
pearl meteor
SS is viable st
humble sail
did anybody test yet if we can actually use garrote on cd on multiple targets in m+ now without destroying stealth garrotes?
humble sail
omg i didnt think this is gonna happen actually
quick void
I am actually unsure tbh
summer parcel
guys do u think 355 harlander beats a 370 frenetic corpuscle?
pearl meteor
no
quick void
Fixed a bug causing the bonus damage from Shrouded Suffocation to fall off if the rogue used Garrote on another target.
pearl meteor
sim it
quick void
But how many targets?
summer parcel
sims shows frenetic as one of the worst trinkets in the game
quick void
Does it imply that it was bugged even at 2 targets?
pearl meteor
🤦
summer parcel
but i see so many mythic raiding rogues use it?
small island
its good for outlaw
summer parcel
i see it alot for assa too
inland rune
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
inland rune
Well that was the bug
pearl meteor
the amt is irrelevant
summer parcel
together with talroc trinket
quick void
Yea it seems so
candid smelt
I just read they fixed the bug tho?
inland rune
They did
pearl meteor
yes
candid smelt
Feelsgoodman
inland rune
The mods just haven't updated the command
humble sail
@quick void i mean should be easy enough to test? put stealth garrote on 3 targets and let it tick out, see on dmg meter how much dmg it did. then do again but with a 4th one and compare? im gonna do that in a bit when i have time
inland rune
@solid nova could you please update the !SS command ❤
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
inland rune
Yikes
quick void
Haha
small island
never trust a rogue
quick void
Anyway it seems that Garotte is indeed fixed
And doing +4 targets is gonna lead to massive deepz
Have fun destroying dps meters boiz
high ingot
It shouldnt buff our damage too much. more of a QoL change
small island
i dont think it will change too much
inland rune
It wont make much of a difference tbh
quick void
Lmfao
pearl meteor
mhm
sleek iron
In m+ with more than 4 targets
inland rune
It used to be even more broken before the nerf
quick void
Gonna send a SS of dps meter give me a sec
nimble tartan
any sub zul gods in the chat
pearl meteor
mhm
nimble tartan
anarchy u see my parse
pearl meteor
havnet looked
sudden trench
nimble tartan
check it out bro @pearl meteor
small island
x2 370 SoB + 370 SS vs x2 340 SS + 370 SS in m+?
nimble tartan
Y E E T
inland rune
Meh
pearl meteor
^
inland rune
Used to be even more broken
pearl meteor
nice r1 @nimble tartan
quick void
Thats not in those numbers.
inland rune
Meh/10
You're not gonna do many extra garrotes in AoE anyways
You're already swimming in the energy
quick void
Im just saying, Im looking forward to this in M+ atleast
inland rune
Basically this change just basically made it even harder to fuck up as sin
solid nova
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
solid nova
reeeee
inland rune
Go to an earlier build
Or restart the bot
Or earlier build and physically change the output code
solid nova
Yeah i'll mess around in between work, it'll be dead soon dw
inland rune
Me am smart
solid nova
big iq many brains
inland rune
You lied to me though, it's been many of 2s of minutes
quick void
How viable is SoB in M+? Seems to me that on paper it should be massive.
Just 1 trait, no stacking
solid nova
🎉
pearl meteor
depends rly on how u do pulls
dreamy fiber
ELVUI seems kinda impossible to remove certain debuffs from enemy nameplates, anyone know exactly how to or should I change to some other addon?
pearl meteor
SS is better
inner pecan
SS is just better for multitarget but if you have a high SoB piece it'll do fine
Especially on higher keys when mobs actually live longer than your SS-garrotes
timber nexus
Just have to blacklist them molseh
quick void
My SoB is 385
pearl meteor
higher keys FoK spam SoB pulls ahead
inner pecan
What's your SS piece in that slot? 340?
inland rune
What did you do to fix it
solid nova
Death by association
quick void
SS slot is 370 for me
inner pecan
sure it's always easy to say stuff depends
quick void
^
calm abyss
did you guys grab battlefield focus or scent of blood shoulders this week pvp conquest cap? focusing on arena
pearl meteor
if ur pugging
small island
Pika is using x2 sob i think
quick void
What do you guys consider high consisten AoE though?
inner pecan
Like 15+ of most dungeons
quick void
Hmm
quick void
Yea the thing is I've been doing crimson without SS and I can output stable 23k on 4 targets
inner pecan
anything lower than that shit will barely live through your SS-garrotes
maybe I just run with high-dps comps
quick void
Thats mostly without garrotte just rupture and crimson
pearl meteor
if ur pulling 3 mobs sure it wont live
quick void
But Im just curious if I can do more than that
pearl meteor
on 4 targets i wldnt use it
quick void
It just seems like a lot man. 135 agility and I always have rupture on all targets
And most pulls on most dungs are 3-4 targets
pearl meteor
4/5 itll b close depending on how long they live, the more targets u have the more value it gets
inland rune
Depends on the affix and group
inner pecan
but after a certain point you are wasting dmg by getting so many ruptures up
I usually don't have more than 4 ruptures running
then you have near-infinite energy and you can CT spam
quick void
Me neither tbh
pearl meteor
4-5 is fine
quick void
540 agility increase on 4 targets of rupture
pearl meteor
but flat dmg inc on agi over FoK spamming and poisons will b worth more if they live long enough
inner pecan
well
CT spam is strong
on like 5+ targets
open with ss garrotes, get 3-4 ruptures rolling, then CT spam
30k+ dps
pearl meteor
mhm and agi adds more than a single ss will
quick void
Yea
pearl meteor
esp going up in targets
inner pecan
idk about that
pearl meteor
wym u dont know
quick void
Should be hella strong, right?
pearl meteor
u dont spam more ruptures out
quick void
1080 agi increase on 4 targets?
pearl meteor
i wldnt
quick void
If you have 2 385 SoBs that is
pearl meteor
use more than 1
quick void
So maybe 1 385 SoB and 2 SS?
inner pecan
1x SoB, 2x SS seems strong
pearl meteor
mhm
quick void
For me its either 385 SoB or 385 swirling sands
pearl meteor
sob
quick void
Yea thats what I thought aswell
inland hornet
should I swap out a 370 azerite piece with a 340 when it has shrouded suffocation ?
inner pecan
yeah run sob over sws for aoe
inland hornet
For m+
inner pecan
@inland hornet what 370 trait
pearl meteor
depends on trait on 370
limber dew
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
gloomy jasper
!ss
gloomy jasper
Hotfix or next patch?
inner pecan
it's live
gloomy jasper
Finally!
desert pelican
omg
last mist
Is there any other reliable guide out there besides Ravenholdt?
inland hornet
Oki thanks 😊
green hatch
hello, you mean the SS trait bug when you garrote an additional target after 3s have been fixed ?
just make a test on dummy its seems to be good now
solid nova
Yeah
green hatch
oh thats fantastic
solid nova
Took long enough 😂
solid lava
torpid crag
Is there even a reason atm to swap out Darkmoon Deck? I actually sim 40dmg higher with a other trinket but I feel like the Deck is way more consistent
frigid briar
Darkmoon is OP
limber dew
@heavy wren hope that helped mate
heavy wren
@strange python it was super helpful thank you so much for taking the time!
frigid briar
Unless you get TF trinkets from dungeons I assume fathom outright is better majority of the time
limber dew
@frigid briar can you link me your logs
cyan stump
Darkmoon is not that good in m+
sullen pagoda
@cyan stump agreed i prefer gallecallers + another stat proc trinket
frigid briar
Youll be able to find my logs, at work just now. They arent anything impressive
Progress is finished for me now to, no more gear since benched for Ghuun
sullen pagoda
atm im using motherload one cuz not really lucky with dice drops 😂 🔫
torpid crag
I could use Galecaller+Jar for Myth+ instead of Darkmoon 🤔
frigid briar
Replaced by trial locks
cyan stump
@frigid briar that sucks
frigid briar
Indeed, a fate most rogues will face though
I got shoulders from zul atleast last night which was a 45itmlvl upgrade. Softened the blow
sullen pagoda
i mean rogue isnt bad on ghuun u just need to know how to bring the big dick numbers
echo cargo
Does anyone find themselves just not getting loot for fucking ages?
solid nova
RNG 🤷
sullen pagoda
havent had those problems @echo cargo 381 in bags 😂
frigid briar
Ive been pretty unlucky with loot till this week
cyan stump
legs and feet in every m+ cache so far
frigid briar
Had 1 item from all my bonus rolls so far.
inner pecan
i'm playing rogue on m ghuun
torpid crag
Still waiting for better azerite shoulders with ss
inner pecan
it brings decent boss dmg but nothing else really
one of the first classes to get benched tbh unlucky
echo cargo
Watching my M+ tank disenchant 375 trinkets and I've run like 20 +10 Freeholds and gotten shit -_-
sullen pagoda
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/character/twisting-nether/Mtvcribs double 385 daggers
P o g
frigid briar
Yeah, I kinda saw it coming for a few weeks. Im not happy but if it dies faster its cool
frigid briar
I care more for guild rank than anything else. Logs ect dont excite me
torpid crag
@sullen pagoda I don't need them 
inner pecan
ehh
he didn't run orbs in p1 and just HB spam FoK lol
idk how his p3 damage was with HB
sullen pagoda
he did do orbs
sullen pagoda
i cant remember which group was he but he did it atleast once
inner pecan
well everyone has to do it atleast once
on mythic
4 groups run twice, 1 group runs once
and there's 4 people in each grp
merry fox
!ss
cyan stump
@merry fox bug is solved
frigid briar
Atleast I can raid test on monday from the bench
sullen pagoda
wait is it really
solid nova
Yeah
torpid crag
solid nova
Its pinned 😄
sullen pagoda
P O G
tribal jolt
Yah!
cyan stump
but i dont know if it changes our aoe opener
tribal jolt
So confused now as sin on balance of SS vs dd. Any recs?
frigid briar
For aoe?
Like mythic+?
100% shrouded
Its got the mantle effect, just need to get high itemlvl pieces with skill
cyan stump
yea with shroud i think we could put one more garrote
tribal jolt
So SS on m+ using exsang build but guessing raid its dd?
cyan stump
they are quite similar in damage outputs, depends on your stat weights so sim yourself
frigid briar
Honestly, I just use my highest itemlvl pieces
tribal jolt
Yeah I was looking at that and I know tc has been working on making sure SS was being properly simmed and there are some overrides that need to be done.
frigid briar
Then pick what ever triats best on 2 targets
chilly bear
So guys with the changes to SS, we still stack that trait in m+?
pearl meteor
already did
lament dove
it only got better, so yeah?
chilly bear
ok, thats what i missed 😄
thorny arrow
when yall play EP do you pool ever or keep its uptime as high as possible then pool for TB?
pearl meteor
what talents, i mean ur gonna end up pooling at times p much no matter what but some more than others
thorny arrow
2312321
frigid briar
Pool energy and envenom, I try to get 2 mutilates in and envenom when elab planning is in 0.1 second. You cant maintain this 100%
I pull before TB for sure
lament dove
I read that in dwarfish accent
unique axle
!ss
frigid briar
I typed it in a dwarven accent thats why
stable oxide
You can pool energy befor the cooldown of TB is up
frigid briar
If you pull before Tb with 4-5 point finishers, elab planning us up majority of it anyways
stable oxide
Just need to keep track of your rupture and garrote, preferably you want to have 4cp, alot of energy, and a rupture/garrote refreshed so you can do TB > Envenom > Mut > Mut > envom withing elab and TB timer
I mean if you do TB on cooldown you will mostly only have 1 envenom in the TB timer
daring cape
!stats
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Stat weights:
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
Note: Simming will always result in more accurate results.
thorny arrow
word, i appreciate the insight! thanks.
hybrid thicket
Guys havent joined for like a week because of work. What do you run for most dps ? Is it still SS or Double dose ?
pearl meteor
depends on gear
stable oxide
i use DD for single target fights like mother and taloc
lament dove
usually SS for mythic+ and DD for single target
stable oxide
I use SS for fights where I can use vanish and multi garrote
lament dove
if I would have DD...
frigid briar
Anyone asking best traits can simply put your gear into raidbots.com and it will tell you best talents and azerite to use for it
It changes depending your currenr gear
stable oxide
and see what the majority in the top 100 is using
frigid briar
If you wanna kill bosses the best thing to do is play what your raid needs
Which you will see after a pull or 2
stable oxide
Well on zek'vos i'm using SS, cause when the adds spawn I vanish and do 3 garrotes on the adds and then spam FoK and crimson Tempest
indigo goblet
!ss
stable oxide
Now I can do 4 garrotes :3
frigid briar
If your playing assassination is crimson really needed
frigid briar
When you can do more boss and big add damage
pearl meteor
if you want to pad yes
frigid briar
Yeah thats what I said. Situation. Killing bosses and logging is 2 different things
Wipes can be drastically reduced if people play for kills rather than logs
stable oxide
Well at the start my raidleader was complaining about my low add damage xD
I don't have outlaw weps
frigid briar
If add damage is low play outlaw and drop crut buff killingspree on everyone
stable oxide
so I was like... sure, let me go "Aoe" 😛
frigid briar
Our 2 dks cover small adds with dragon so Im told to ignore them
stable oxide
I only have 1 Dk in my guild
spice surge
@stable oxide never do 4 garrotes
indigo goblet
They fixed ss?!?!?!
spice surge
!ss
frigid briar
4 garrotes is fine
pearl meteor
lmao
stable oxide
@spice surge its fixed
thorny arrow
whaaaaaat its fixed?!
frigid briar
Lol
thorny arrow
oh shit ahaha, thats dope.
indigo goblet
What a great day
visual token
Wait it’s actually fixed? No troll?
frigid briar
Funny thing is I dropped my last SS trait last night for raids lol
Then fixed today
visual token
😮
thorny arrow
eh, i still use one for m+
indigo goblet
"Fixed a bug causing the bonus damage from Shrouded Suffocation to fall off if the rogue used Garrote on another target."
visual token
Yay
frigid briar
Only thing I worry is that they nerf SS now to compensate LOL
indigo goblet
My panda rogue just went off
frigid briar
Even though its not much
quick void
Nerf
indigo goblet
Didn't they just nerf it recently?
thorny arrow
yall been using crimson tempest for fortified week?
magic zenith
OMG OMG OMG they fixed it!
quick void
^ yes
magic zenith
!ss
indigo goblet
Bruh
magic zenith
Garrote all the things.
quick void
Honestly dont even have to stress to achieve 20k deepz on 4 targets atm
4 Garrottes is all you need.
And thats just 1 SS
lament dove
I guess I should be happy that there is no upgrade yet for my 340 SS shoulders
frigid briar
Anyone do me a favour and tell me what piece SS drops on from raids?
lament dove
chest from fetid
frigid briar
Hmm. Think I got that
solid nova
Yes, it's also pinned
static tapir
ty
north charm
Haha finaly
smoky wind
After getting used to MA/TB opener, sims are telling me to go back to exang build -.-
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aNoSwCsqxYpQWyj7aF3hmx
inner pecan
@smoky wind have you simmed MA/TB with Archive on chest instead of SS?
having SS will obviously favour Subt/Exsg
craggy notch
WAIT HOLD UP, ss has been fixed???
smoky wind
yup. simmed both and it's telling me to use SS with exang
frigid briar
actually looking forward to sorting my rogue tonight. Left him in a mess last night after raid. Got a few items from zul
inner pecan
i mean both builds are close so a few upgrades may swing things in either direction @smoky wind
thorn pasture
Hopefully they fix the bug where ss doesnt fucking drop aswell
inner pecan
if you've never played Exsg it's not that hard to learn
and imo it's better than TB on a lot of the more relevant Uldir bosses
aka fetid/mythrax/ghuun
thorn pasture
Is it rly tho if it sims lower?
frigid briar
Exsanguinate is better on vectis I feel to
inner pecan
yeah
smoky wind
yeah i played with it before, although i prefer the TB/MA playstyle a bit more, used to it from legion lol
inner pecan
nah it is for sure better I just don't count that as a relevant boss 😛
frigid briar
It took us 70 pulls to kill it
Less than 50 for mythrax...
Was relevant to us hahahah
We derped so hard on it
I think I might hit the 17k club tonight after optimizing my gear actually looking at my sim just now
fast gyro
spice surge
Legion
frigid briar
Actual lol
north charm
So what's the best oppener for aoe dmages with ss fixed
pseudo barn
@frigid briar is the ss trait stacking still a thing or has it been beaten by archives?
frigid briar
I think optimal is 1SS and 2archives. Looking more into stuff tonight
quick egret
I have two archives at 370 and a dd at 385. I have a ss at 370 but dont know if i should switch out my 385.
frigid briar
DD and blightborn is also strong tho
short arch
Only pieces with SS I have are 340 while having 370 archives 
frigid briar
Its really fight dependant
pseudo barn
Aye I was thinking the same. The funny part tho, looks like my outlaw is simming ST higher than Sin.
short arch
How would you sim for m+ like if I want to compare 2/3x SS with other traits? Patchwork 6 bosses 40sec?
frigid briar
SS on fetid, vectis, mythrax,
DD on taloc, mother, zekvoz (pure ST build)
Sub for zul
Is my opinion for getting kills
SS basically brings more burst damage on adds that need to die
Pure single target is DD or blight
Havnt done mythic ghuun yet so dunno
pine tulip
is SS worth it for uldir?
pseudo barn
I have a 385 ss and 2x 370 archive and sin is simming 16.5 , and outlaw is simming 16.8 with 1 archive and 2 ace traits.
frigid briar
Helps kill that need to die yeah
pseudo barn
30% crit, 20 haste
frigid briar
Outlaw is decent spec rn for the majority
I need to optimize my shit tonight. Got new pieces n logged out
pseudo barn
I'm ignoring mastery so it might be an issue there.
Might be worth swapping some jewlery for haste mastery combo.
@short arch I'd sim 4 patchwerk and make it a 1-2mins, since in higher keys trash fights are realistically longer.
devout moth
Heart of Azeroth
Fixed a bug causing the bonus damage from Shrouded SuffocationShrouded Suffocation to fall off if the rogue used Garrote on another target.
omg finally xd
ornate mantle
its fixed?!
solid nova
Yes
torn bear
so we can garrote all the things!
ornate mantle
yea boi
frigid briar
Free garrotes for everyone 
frigid briar
devout moth
@frigid briar how are u simming so high? 😮
steady aurora
@devout moth 2x 385 azerite pieces, 385 weapon, and Galecallers Boon.
tribal jolt
On mallet, what is being said with SS+Sub are they saying that it only sims that high with SS in sub spec?
spice surge
Subterfuge
mossy hazel
The Subterfuge talent. Because it allows you to put up multiple empowered, buffed garrotes. If you have an SS trait you WANT Subterfuge talent
quick void
Currently rocking SS370, SoB385 and Blightborne 385. With Crimson on M
Its a dmg dream!
tribal jolt
So now it sounds like you might want SS with mix of DD
edgy latch
i killed zul yesterday, and shoulder/offhand are my worst slots
looted wrists, coined back
fml
quick void
Depends what you play tbh
sleek iron
1 ss, 1 lazer/archive and 1 DD
quick void
If you play M+ SS and SoB are worth. But if you only raid, you should still stay to DD, DitB and archives/laser
mossy hazel
Wait which one is dagger in the back again...? I'm brain farting it..
quick void
What do you mean lol? DitB is shot for dagger in the back 😄
torn bear
stacking dot, more stacks from behind
quick void
Ah lol. Yea 😄
edgy latch
infexious
frigid briar
My gears not optimized @devout moth can hit 17k once I fix it.
frigid briar
Whats your progress?
edgy latch
6/8
frigid briar
Mythic?
frigid briar
Your unlucky then
edgy latch
kms
frigid briar
I got shoulders from zul last night and then bonus rolled dagger. My lucks changing
mossy hazel
So ditb is simming well now? I don't think I've even seen that trait..
edgy latch
lol
i had the exact opposite
looted wrists, rolled back
none of them were an upgrade
mossy hazel
You guys get loot from bosses? That's weird
frigid briar
I got a 395 back this week to. Stats were bad I think though
Think it took me every bonus roll till the last one so far to get 1 item
Sick of looting green items from bosses to
mossy hazel
First 2 weeks of heroic was a total of 6 bosses, 4 bonus rolls, 0 loot. Lol
clear harbor
Nm uldir since day 1 - only 1 azerite piece traded from guild mate. Heroic clears since day 1 not a single item. And no items from world bosses. Get on my level.. in the meantime friend gets 380 weapon out of a m6 weekly cache. Ty blizz
mossy hazel
Lol, god damn, yea you've got me beat
I was doing mythic at 357 until this past tuesday.
sand whale
I've no luck with azerite armor either and since first mythic week no gear upgrades because sockets too good
vagrant tundra
yeah i've had no luck with azerite pieces from Uldir either >.> (got 0)
valid moss
does that "370ilvl azerite pieces from emissaries" change goes live next reset or next patch?
wheat zealot
8.1 i would assume
valid moss
mongoloids
sand whale
which by then I'm sure it'll be the new 340
wheat zealot
^
valid moss
hazy sphinx
Wonder how long they are going to fight this though. They know the solution is to make azerite drop from m+
mossy hazel
I don't know why people think that's the solution. I think they made them TOO available, so missing it from 1 source feels bad. I think it should have just been raid gear from the start...
Or at least the "best" traits in raid
spice surge
The 370 thing is almost certainly not in 8.1. Or well, if 8.1 comes out in a couple weeks and not the raid then i guess
but but getting more Azerite Armor in your hands is the higher priority for the immediate future. seems to indicate not 8.1
frigid briar
Blizzard derped so hard with azerite
Its not hard max it at 20itmlvls below mythic from mythic+
Like clearing nearly 8/8m with still 340 azerite is a shit concept
tough lantern
laser matrix or SS for M+?
frigid briar
SS easily
spice surge
Idk, if they dropped in m+ people would just run 20 m+ the day of a patch before doing the raid
Not that its a good system, but i dont think making it drop from m+ will make everything good
frigid briar
Easy fix. Dont let it drop azerite first 2 weeks
tulip wedge
my subt SS exan sims lower than MA/tb in singletarget : /
kindred flame
time gating vs rng you chose?
frigid briar
Indeed femo
stable oxide
I got an 385 azerite piece from the chest this week. Unlucky for me it had Blade of Knifes as assassination trait 😛
inner pecan
top guilds farmed m+
and killed it in a week
blizz didnt expect people to be that high ilvl
well not even a week
2 days
there can be a healthy balance im sure
im js a world without timegating isn't perfect
because the top 0.1% will grind insane amounts making the raid either irrelevant for them or insanely hard for the avg. player
no
but the top 0.1% affect more than 0.1% of the game
they set the meta
alpine grotto
Blizzard won t cap
frigid briar
I mean it doesnt matter what level you balance it really. If azerite dropped from mythic+ after 2 weeks into raid. It would fill voids on bad luck and would help all levels
Or just remove it, im my eyes the system failed already
frigid briar
Week 1 yes
inner pecan
nope
spice surge
IMO they should just update the weekly m+ reward to be less random
quick fog
How do you access the apl?
spice surge
Either by having to choose between 3 pieces, or it almost always dropping azerite
marble hemlock
adding azerite to m+ would just increase the grind, since theres like 10 competing items per dungeon. so in order for your regular guy who only does up to +10 to get that azerite piece he wants, hed have to run the dungeon ~20-30times to get a decent chance of getting it
sand whale
maybe they should add an essence trader for azerite and have m+ cache award some shrugs
can't farm that shit
better than BLP
inner pecan
@marble hemlock how is that different from m0?
sand whale
coz my BLP sucks
spice surge
M0 has a lockout
marble hemlock
m0 has a lockout, so after running every dungeon once youre done for the week
inner pecan
im aware
but you're saying you'd have to run a m0 20-30 times to get an azerite piece?
thats just not true
marble hemlock
if they enabled azerite in m+, certain people would feel "forced" to grind m+ for their BiS azerite, and people who cant afford to would feel forced but left behind
hardy mauve
I feel like you guys are arguing whether aids or ebola is better
marble hemlock
so its not exactly an ideal solution. it might work for a small part of the playerbase, but thats about it
inner pecan
@marble hemlock it'd be the exact same situation as relics in Legion tbh
which were in m+
valid moss
allowing 340 pieces to be upgraded by 5-10ilvls every week/day wouldn't be a bad idea though
marble hemlock
yup, and they didnt like that one either
hardy mauve
I'd rather feel forced to grind my bis azerite pieces than dealing with the frustration and helplessness of weekly lockouts
frigid briar
They should bring in a cruciable and let us have double traits so we need to be extra lucky when we finally get a piece
marble hemlock
so much so, that the introduced the NLC to give people a second chance for their BiS trait, which then just lead to people wanting double-BiS traits. the exact same thing is going to happen with this new outer ring theyll introduce with 8.1
which goes to show how blizzard is not a learning animal
valid moss
Blizzard's spirit animal is a donkey
inner pecan
eh I'd say NLC wasn't perfect but having 2 shots at your BiS definitely was an improvement
not perfect but improvement nonetheless
since you couldn't have 2x of same trait
hardy mauve
2 rings make the situation less severe for outlier azerite gear though, it makes the system better and less likely your high ilvl azerite is useless
marble hemlock
the ideal solution to acquiring specific gear from specific dungeons without making it too easy has been done by gw2. have every dungeon drop a dungeon-specific currency, introduce dungeon-vendors where you can buy each item (including azerite) at base-ilvl for that currency. make worldquests related to that dungeon give that currency.
inner pecan
idk how this extra azerite ring works though
Could you have 2x SS on 1 piece? Or it's like NLC can't duplicate?
marble hemlock
you can still acquire it by drop, but if you get bad luck youll get the item through currency eventually. theres still incentive to run the dungeon for TF, and people running +4s or so can still buy their "I WANT THAT" item at 370 base
no
gw2 works differently though, you only run that specific dungeon because of how the dungeon set looks
lone junco
Or. Just make the gear scale with neck. What a shit awful solution.
inner pecan
honestly at this point I probably would have preferred another tier of Legion raiding compared to BFA xd
with all artifacts + legendaries + tier
lone junco
Let me turn in sanguicel for neck value btw.
valid moss
If +0 awards 340, then why not make +5 award 355 then +10 370 and so
hardy mauve
Gw2 gave you extra currency for doing the dungeon daily though
hardy mauve
And you could keep farming for less currency
marble hemlock
its basically a dungeon-specific valor system
that would work well with the repeatable way m+ works
lone junco
I like bfa. Cause I got 3ss right away. easy game I think.
sand whale
because blizz wants people to keep playing, their secret recipe is RNG and TFing, goodbye currency!
marble hemlock
and would improve character progression and itemization for azerite, which is the only thing the top 1% wants, while giving lower-level players something to look forward to
lone junco
It is still bis for m+
marble hemlock
imagine being able to spam shrine, and if you get unlucky you could still buy a 370 galecallers with the currency you got
frosty gyro
Yeah but you could only buy a 340 probably if they had that
marble hemlock
why limit it to 340, make it 370
frosty gyro
Because why would the bvendor sell +10 loot?
GW2 doesn't have vertical gear progression can't really compare it
sand whale
yeah I'm, okay with it capped at heroic equivalent ilvl
marble hemlock
if its balanced right, and you need to do like 10-15dungeons in order to get enough currency to buy 1 370 item, is that really that bad?
frosty gyro
10-15 +10 shrines?
marble hemlock
its not like itll trivialize the gearing process
frosty gyro
Or just 10-15 shrines
marble hemlock
itll just remove the very bad luck
inner pecan
the amount of currency you get could scale with level
marble hemlock
i mean, maybe set the cost at ~10-15 +10 shrines, and ~20 +5 shrines?
marble hemlock
so the dude who cant do a +10 shrine can still get that coveted 370 galecallers
sand whale
- incentive for those who do +10 and higher keys, if they reward mythic players why not reward m+ players
marble hemlock
and obviously you can still spam the key for the chance to get one dropped and TF
frosty gyro
Well it's never going to happoen and I think it would be a terrible solution unless you could onlyt spend the currency on loot with equal or lower ilv
marble hemlock
i dont know, i wouldnt mind a system like that. its basically valor, but tailored to how m+ works now
frosty gyro
Yeah except with valor you got rewards in the tier of what you were clearing not higher
marble hemlock
how is TF any different right now?
inner pecan
top-end players are 380-385 at this moment, 370 gear isn't gamebreaking lol
frosty gyro
Because it's a super tiny chance?
marble hemlock
if you do 15 keys on +5, chances are you got atleast one 370 piece out of it
ripe nimbus
I got rank 6 on mythic fetid last night and I have no idea how.. lul pull was so scuffed had 5 people alive when we killed it... this game is weird.. Also time to have fun pressing 2 buttons as sub on zul zzzzZzzzZzzzz
marble hemlock
thats why people wear almost no 370 piece, but 380+, cause its so tiny 😃
frosty gyro
@inner pecan now sure but M+ has been open for 5 weeks if this was the system people would have gone and farmed their BiS right away at 370
marble hemlock
first week of m+ was capped at lower ilvls
and its not like im suggesting that youd get enough currency every few dungeons to buy a 370 piece
set it high enough
15-20 of the same dungeon on a +10
frosty gyro
Still think it's a dumb idea and obviously blizzard would never do that anyways
ripe nimbus
Man I wish they would delete azerite so people would stop talking about it. I think I hate the QQ more then I actually hate azerite at this point lol
marble hemlock
but having goals to look forward to is important, and right now its more like any shitty mobile game where you get a few "free" weekly chances to get an item, and once youre out of rolls you gotta wait until next week
giving people the choice and chance to grind for a specific item isnt a bad thing
strange iris
so they fixed the SS bug finally eh
ripe nimbus
Get the raid azerite and stop caring.. this is what I did and my life has been much happier.
marble hemlock
well, some people strive for excellence and that unfortuntely includes having the best available gear
unfortunately up to 3 of the pieces youd need for that are locked behind a weekly lockout where you get a single chance for that item
people wouldnt complain about azerite if the traits they wanted would be available at 355 or 370
ripe nimbus
Strive for excellence but are prob depleting 10 keys and 6/8 heroic... that's what I see from most people who complain so much about azerite
marble hemlock
but having to decide between 340 BiS trait or 385 non-bis blows. hard.
frosty gyro
Also if you run 20 M+10s of Shrine the chance you don't get a 370 galecallers is 1.1%
Assuming you fail to time every one
marble hemlock
and contrary to blizzards believe, this is not about trait balance. its about availablity of higher ilvl azerite, and increasing the emissary ilvl cap is not a solution
frosty gyro
And only get 2 pieces
lilac tapir
@frosty gyro I got a 370 socketed Galecallers from an M9 that my group depleted, does that make you feel better about RNG? (clear sarcasm)
marble hemlock
imagine the outrage in here if alliance would get drustvar shoulders with SS in their first emissary after they introduce that change
while we get gonk outrunner helmet 3times in 4weeks, and no shoulders
lilac tapir
Just explaining how it feels bad that you can time 10's over and over again and someone else can get a TF with a socket from a 6 or something
marble hemlock
hm, thats actually true kirvin
makes it even worse
😛
i can grind for any item in the game, except for azerite. that just sucks.
hazy sphinx
No
marble hemlock
eventually you got all legendaries
frosty gyro
TBH I thinka better system would be some way to scrap gear for materials and use those materials to craft dungeon gear. +2-+4 scraps for 340 mats. +5-+9 355. +10 and higher 370.
strange python
in like fucking 2 years maybe lol
marble hemlock
theres is no reason to believe you will ever get your bis piece at the highest ilvl
hazy sphinx
I got every azerite I need from raiding. Buddies traded me the pieces they sisnt need. I even got spares
marble hemlock
you could go the entire expansion without getting a SS helmet from weekly
hazy sphinx
1 ss 2 archives. I don't even think of azerite anymore.
frosty gyro
385?
marble hemlock
good for you zid. people like me would like 3xSS for m+ for example. only 1 SS in the raid
hazy sphinx
And I'll get there when I kill more shit in mythic
marble hemlock
so we're shit out of luck unless we get a lucky weekly chest, meaning we either have to settle for suboptimal ilvl, or suboptimal traits
sharp nova
Weekly chest and luck in same sentence? 
hazy sphinx
Then stop bitching ffs
marble hemlock
?
sharp nova
Lol zid he has a point
hazy sphinx
Just enjoy. All your GW2 solutions are atrocious. It's just consistent at this point.
frosty gyro
Yeah M+ cache rng is stupid
marble hemlock
id like to push higher keys, but my bis trait is locked to 2x340 pieces because i cant get it at a similar ilvl to the rest of my gear
hazy sphinx
Nothing you can do about it.
sand whale
offfering solutions doesn't equal bitching
hazy sphinx
What will the higher keys give you except nothing atm
marble hemlock
how is it consistent that i can go run the same m+ 50 times and eventually get the item at atleast 370, but cant do the same for azerite?
sharp nova
Seli, you actually run ss on 340 instead of going for ilvl?
marble hemlock
where is that consistency youre speaking off?
hazy sphinx
That's the system they implemented and are gonna make some changes
Then they tell you, hey, here in your emissary
marble hemlock
and higher keys give more loot
hazy sphinx
Same shit above 10
frosty gyro
I mean I think dungeon/raid vendors aren't a bad idea. I just think that A)it should reward gear of the level you're clearing and B) it should require extra gear instead of just giving you currency so when you get 3 belt drops that are downgrades instead of going "well I can't use this shit" you go "great now I can craft that 370 helm that won't drop".
lone junco
Emissary is even less control. Grats. More useless traits.
lilac tapir
I run 2x SS at 340 and the Fetid Chest at 355 with SS for M+ @sharp nova and I have a Scent of Blood chest and Scent of Blood shoulders at 385 and 370 respectively
marble hemlock
so instead of getting that one weekly RNG-roll for an azerite piece with my bis roll, i may get an additional 1-3 per week from emissary. thats still not consistent.
sharp nova
rip 385 shoulders and 370 chest then
lone junco
Just lock all 3 pieces equal ilvl to your neck. And the game continues.
thorn crater
SS fixed!!!! finally!!!!!!
marble hemlock
not to mention it forces me into content that i dont enjoy, that i vastly outgear, and that provides no tangible benefits except for getting me that additional RNG roll
lilac tapir
SS is just dramatically better, and now that they fixed the SS bug its even more good lol
hazy sphinx
Piece of shit pulled mobs I swear from another dungeon. Made a bug report
frosty gyro
Please don't lock anything to the ilv of neck I don't want to farm that shit
sharp nova
Pls lock it
hazy sphinx
Wont use it again in there. The system is flawed, but I'll just live with what I got and enjoy it as best I can
Its every day in here
lone junco
Same. But it is a blizzard solution.
hazy sphinx
Azerite azerite azerite.
marble hemlock
i mean kirvin, whether you need to scrap for materials to craft or buy an item of your choice, or the dungeon just rewarding currency outright, theres not much of a difference. but youre right, involving the scrapper would be a cool thing
hazy sphinx
I come in here during my glory filled morning poop
To read talk about assassination rogues
supple compass
It seems like a lot of people still manage to push high keys with low ilvl azerite though
marble hemlock
another option would be to have tokens similar to the pvp ones, that lets you upgrade a specific piece by 15ilvl
supple compass
Like flawless, and muscle I think
hazy sphinx
And it's always ruined with azerite crap. Your tokens are ruining my pop experience
frosty gyro
@sacred pier I mean the main thing I don't like about your solutiuon is you can run a bunch of +5s and buy +10 gear it doesn't encourage people to improve just to do really long grinds.
marble hemlock
so every weekly chest, youd get a token that lets you upgrade an item, for me that would be azerite, by 15ilvl up to 370 or smth like that
lone junco
Re SS. And 4th garrote. Once I got 4g and 4ruptures I couldn't spend the energy fast enough so I was mut /g. Mut/fok in aoe. It was def awkward.
lilac tapir
Fair enough @hazy sphinx , azerite talk should stay in the general rogue chat probably
frosty gyro
Ah yeah upgrade tokens are a good idea
marble hemlock
dont think you wanna do 4th garrote after 3xG right now @lone junco
frosty gyro
I'd say not 15ilv just make it go straight to 380/385(Azerite)
marble hemlock
well, they exist for pvp, no idea why they dont for pve 😄
frosty gyro
So you can target piecesin M0 and then boost them
marble hemlock
yup
lone junco
It was after the gggct 3ruptures. Then held 4g4r
hazy sphinx
I'll open up with 3 garrote and varnish and apply 3 more and you'll like it.
I'll pandemic each one.
Cause without 3 SS I cannot live.
sand whale
varnishing mobs might make them shine
hazy sphinx
Damn right
lone junco
@frosty gyro I don't want to improve or try harder. My skill is capped. I want to slide through content over time due to ilvl gains.
And that's no joke.
marble hemlock
@supple compass of course we can still push highkeys
but theres a certain imbalance right now w ith people being able to equip high ilvl azerite becuase its actually the best option for them
hazy sphinx
Mother fuckas pushing 18 with sin rogues and he only had 1 SS. But nah, we need 3.
marble hemlock
while others are "stuck" with their 340 pieces
speed would run 3xSS if he had it at high ilvl, so would I, and any other assa rogue
sharp nova
Point is, not being able to obtain 3xSS azerite pieces without tons of unreal luck is stupid system
marble hemlock
its not comparable to SS though
frosty gyro
On a higher ilv it is I bet
marble hemlock
only reason its comparable, is because it usually has 30 or 45 ilvl more
sharp nova
Noone said you cant push without 3 SS
sharp nova
But it makes a huge difference
lilac tapir
you think SS damage falls off at higher keys because the trash lives longer?
sand whale
if they remove SS trait will there be riot?
marble hemlock
if you got the 385 archive, its "bis" right now since you can only get 340 SS (except for chest)
frosty gyro
Probably @lilac tapir
quaint flare
marble hemlock
if we were able to reliably get 370 SS on all slots, everyone would run those
frosty gyro
Esdpecially on fort week
lilac tapir
@frosty gyro the agi boost is prob a lot of damage for your CT's + Rups
balmy cradle
Seli would you run 370 archiv or 340 ss? Already have 2 other ss
marble hemlock
dunno, i frankly dont know which one is better
id probably still go for 3xSS right now
especially in bolstering
hazy sphinx
U only need 1 SS.
marble hemlock
dont really wanna boost the remaining aoe damage, but focus a bit more on the couple of higher-health targets, SS is better for that
lilac tapir
conflicting opinions in here 
balmy cradle
Yeah prolly right
marble hemlock
like
marble hemlock
strange python
just run as many SS as possible imo
sharp nova
lilac tapir
marble hemlock
like
strange python
340 ss over pretty much any other 370 trait 385 probs better
lone junco
Zid takes a fat eggplant 🍆 to the face.
hazy sphinx
Are you seriously complaining
sharp nova
He will prolly tell him
lone junco
"Oh"
hazy sphinx
Dude just made my morning pop worse!
sharp nova
If he used 1ss
lilac tapir
LOL
sand whale
he be clearing 20 keys with 3ss easy
lilac tapir
Zid def got his bluff called there
wheat zealot
Not even r1 world smh
hazy sphinx
Its not about the bluff, I expected shim to be up there
hazy sphinx
Dudes at the damn top of the game and still
marble hemlock
well
sharp nova
And he probably has most valid opinion?
marble hemlock
i got 2x385 scent of blood this week
hazy sphinx
Anymore would almost be dependent more on the team than him alone
sharp nova
Is that what u wanted to say?
marble hemlock
but it sucks this week due to bolstering 😦
well
azerite availablity isnt an issue for just top player or just casuals
it applies to everyone
balmy cradle
@marble hemlock will you push kings rest this week?
marble hemlock
its just that people who like to minmax and optimize as much as possible are obviously going to complain more, because it has a bigger impact on them
wheat zealot
So he isent allowed to complain about a flawed system?
marble hemlock
ofc it is. i got 385 chest with SS last week from weekly chest, and i felt fucking sad because its the only SS piece i could also get from raid. if i had gotten helmet or shoulders, that wouldve been a significant gain for the remainder of the entire m+ season.
sharp nova
There is always someone on top
wheat zealot
strange python
Fixed a bug causing the bonus damage from Shrouded Suffocation to fall off if the rogue used Garrote on another target.
IS THIS REAL
lilac tapir
@strange python the fucking madmen did it, Michee
sharp nova
Does that mean system has to be flawless and he shouldnt complain?
strange python
Fucking hell they did it
hazy sphinx
It's not complaining. He is literally getting the progress someone of his level wants with the flawed system. He's making it work.
strange python
Probably
hazy sphinx
Which is what I'm saying. You can work around it and get results
sharp nova
So???
marble hemlock
so many times in this game youre not happy you got an item, but youre sad that the item you got isnt the one you wanted. that is very bad for the game imo.
sharp nova
But results would be even bigger
strange python
doesnt make the system any less shit?
sharp nova
Without the flaws?
lilac tapir
someone is always gonna be rank 1 haha
hazy sphinx
How will the bitching help though. Here?
marble hemlock
i mean, its been a running theme with blizzard shitting on the top 1% of the playerbase because they know those people will adapt and overcome
torn bear
Sel, do you run CT or PB mostly does it depend on fort/tyran?
sharp nova
How will your factless countering of his opinion help ?
marble hemlock
doesnt make my feedback or thoughts any less valid
hazy sphinx
If everything easily accessible, people stop playing too quickly. Get bored, no content. Too hard, not getting it but they stick around to be the 1%.
sand whale
"shit is fine" is how we got beta for azeroth
marble hemlock
ive heard that statement over and over
its just factually wrong
i dont recall anyone ever quitting back in wrath or cata
when they actually acquired their last bis item
lilac tapir
I think Sel would be pushing to be R1 whether or not he had higher ilvl haha
marble hemlock
no one left the guild or stopped farming after they got the last piece of BiS
sharp nova
Its not about seli here
marble hemlock
and frankly, if people only play for acquiring bis and then quit the game, good riddance
sharp nova
He pushed with assa while sub was considered better
marble hemlock
designing the game around people like that is a bad thing
magic zenith
That's a pretty big statement my man
sharp nova
Its not about him, but the flaws in system
wheat zealot
This system will allow people to go all xpac without obtaining their "bis" azerite gear at 385
Or whatever max ilvl is next tier as well
lilac tapir
the ilvl gonna be way higher than 385 btw
marble hemlock
nah, theyll fix it in 12-16months, same as they did in legion
wheat zealot
But people will go all xpac, without recieving that one piece
marble hemlock
the question is why they didnt learn from the issues the legendary system had, and designed a more readily available system this time around
fossil agate
Aquiring bis is only a thing that shoukd make other content more fun. You shouldnt go welp i got BIS time to do nothing, whats the point of it like that
strange python
i dont think blizzard thinks the legendary system was flawed
marble hemlock
again sloth, no one did that back in the day
strange python
i think they thought its a way to keep people playing
fossil agate
I know
marble hemlock
its when you started playing alts, or just helped others in your guild to acquire their bis aswell, since they helped you
fossil agate
Im just countering people who say that
marble hemlock
so that entire argument of "people would quit if they actually finished their characters" is utter bullshit
yup
maiden siren
@lone junco how did you sim zul yesterday?
wheat zealot
Nah, you just mught actually feel you accomplished something with the days on end spent playing this game
What a terrible concept
Amirite
marble hemlock
would be nice to parse against people with the same bis gear to see whos the GOAT
like we did back then
sharp nova
Well
marble hemlock
😦
sharp nova
Its retarded to mesure epenis
lone junco
@maiden siren 6t 5m. Patchwerk.
strange python
now its just who has the better azerite pieces or legos
sharp nova
If both arent full bis geared
fossil agate
My 340 shoulder really getting me to Bis im coming for you
sharp nova
Then any ranking system is shit
hazy sphinx
So once you get all your gear you need in game you just keep playing even more huh?
marble hemlock
well, theyll bandaid fix the issue by making traits like SS less valuable compared to a 30/45 higher ilvl azerite piece
sharp nova
Yes?
hazy sphinx
Ok, clearly fundamental values are different here.
marble hemlock
if SS wasnt so ungodly right now, wed probably all be running 370/385 archive or scent, and the complaints would be less
sharp nova
No, clearly your values are bad
hazy sphinx
No. They are different from yours.
sharp nova
Aiming to be best vs opening weekly every day to get bis item
Hmmmm
Tough choice
Or rather not
marble hemlock
but it wouldnt change the fact that azerite availablity, and the strict decision to not make them farmable in any way is a problem for a lot of people, and one that blizzard seems reluctant to address
lilac tapir
that isnt what Zid is saying
hazy sphinx
I clear mythic content and raid with buddies. Push my IO past 1200. That's what's fun for me.
sharp nova
It is. You dont stop playing if you want to be the best
hazy sphinx
But for example, I don't need nothing from heroic uldir
sharp nova
Okay
hazy sphinx
I just go now to help gear buddies
sharp nova
So when u get 1.2k and clear mythic
strange python
You don't even need the chest from fetid?
sharp nova
You stop playing till next season / raid?
hazy sphinx
But I wont be attending in 2 weeks to get more orange passes.
lilac tapir
he doesnt like SS :/
lilac tapir
on 3 traits at least
sharp nova
Why
strange python
Well SS falls off at higher keys
hazy sphinx
Mythic uldir?
magic zenith
This whole "people never quit over getting bis" is anecdotal as all fuck.
lilac tapir
yea
marble hemlock
yeah adam
sharp nova
Yes, mythic uldir
marble hemlock
its like "raids with masterloot just funnel all the gear into their officers"
and yet here we are, TF to high heaven, weekly RNG roll for the most important pieces of your gear, and forced PL for everyone 😃
magic zenith
My raid team disbanded in Ulduar after the druid got the lego and quit.
lone junco
The classes with top dps traits at 385 will be the ones used in next mythic raid push. Righ?
subtle lynx
when running CT in m+ do you prioritize spreading ruptures asap or do you get CT rolling first and just rupture in between?
lone junco
If your available trait is shit. Then pack it up
sharp nova
Doesnt have ti be noobe
fossil agate
Lul guild dispanded over one healer quiting thats a yikes
hazy sphinx
What
strange python
I have 385 head DD and 385 shoulders with blightborne infusion, are two 340 SS really better in those slots for m+?
marble hemlock
our mage sold his account after getting atiesh back in classic, just made us try to get another one and shit on him every chance we got 😄
magic zenith
The raid isn't the point. The point is he got his bis and quit.
hazy sphinx
Clearly didn't do the content at the time. It was time and work to get that item for someone. Then just ditches?
hazy sphinx
Sounds like something valuur would do