either means your bad or just arent experianced
#assassination
pallid bluff
quasi iris
Yep
pallid bluff
which both can ruin a key
pallid bluff
it shows what your best in the dungeon is as well
quasi iris
I.O shows me you highest key for that dungeon I’m recruiting for
sharp schooner
yeah as long as people actually look at that it's fine
but most mongos just look at the number
quasi iris
I can also go on the website directly from the addon and check if it took you 4 hours to do siege 10
cloud frost
I think the info is good, but the number can be skewed or bad to base off of. What I mean, is if I've seen you do a +8 mythic and just miss the timer I'd probably still invite you for +5/6.
It's dumb it's being used as a gear score. But a great site/data base to see a person's progression
pallid bluff
using it as a gearscore is okay as well. it show me that you actually do M+ instead od just going for a weekly if im trying to push a key i want someone who actually does m+ regularly
jaunty arrow
Ss still buged?
iron prism
Yes
quasi iris
Pugging is Terrible because pugs are lazy and want carries
strange python
anyone know the name of the addon that calls out enemy spells ? like for pvp and pve
scenic nacelle
SB meme dream is dead
wooden island
Pugging is also bad bc leader mostly only want better ppl then himself
jaunty arrow
Looks like blizzard dont give a fuck ♿
ruby idol
Io score is the only reason pugging isnt terrible
iron prism
Puggings just hard because you get some annoying Brazilian who doesn’t interrupt and Afros random shit
.... aggros
ruby idol
Turns out you can choose who to invite
exotic geode
Idk about 5;s but i did a 4 like butter...was weird...assassination was shit with a DH and a Ret goddamn seemed I couldnt kill shit
wooden island
Mines like 14 2 2 8 10 3 11 i think
civic palm
and the 9 was Motherlode on Teeming I don't wanna hear shit > _>
strange python
with 1k io score you get invited to almost anything
civic palm
WHY ARE THERE SO MANY FUCKING MINES?!
pallid bluff
yeah dh is rogue with sin till you get to higher keys
iron prism
It’s teeming with mines yo
pallid bluff
and yeah can confirm with 1k+ its basically an all access pass
quasi iris
^
exotic geode
Damn DH straight raping
strange python
i expect a dh nerf pretty soon, both pve and pvp
exotic geode
i was like damn son did you get a buff
iron prism
Blizzard gotta nerf all these other specs and ignore dh. They gotta get love for managing the tricky rotation of 111111111111
exotic geode
lol
iron prism
Havoc main all legion, my daughter could play havoc and she’s 1
strange python
most specs go like that nowadays..
exotic geode
never played 1 so idk
leaden niche
I have a dh called twobuttons 😂
prime void
all the sepcs are easy lol
pallid bluff
when we ever do keys that are below an 8 i usually jsut spam CT with my DH theres not much you can do cause they just burst everything down
prime void
Welome to wow since WoD
iron prism
Lol havoc is like especially idiot proof though
quasi iris
To be honestly sin isn’t much harder lol
prime void
so is sin.
strange python
lets get back to topic :-.
prime void
topic = sin is ez
iron prism
Lol I’m not saying sin is hard but play havoc, it’s not remotely close
leaden niche
Is there a difficult spec in wow? 🤔
quasi iris
BM would like to speak with you
exotic geode
Prot Warrior
iron prism
Lol I mained havoc through every legion mythic raid tier
strange python
and in only 1 you played momentum, gratz
iron prism
It’s fair that momentum is a lot harder I’ll give ya that
quasi iris
I wish crimson tempest or poison bomb was baseline 😦
iron prism
Curious how poisoned wire will parse now
leaden niche
Yh momentum is higher skillcap for sure
exotic geode
so whats up with FoK. I remember and so does my grandma...when you could FoK a pack of 4-5 and get 4 cps or more..Now you only get 1.
pallid bluff
you need more crit
exotic geode
so more than 21%?
pallid bluff
if you have 20% crit on 4-5 targets your luck sucks
near coyote
(Assassination) Poisoned Wire: Critical Strike increased by 50%.
is this a big change or not really?
pallid bluff
very unlikely your consistently getting 1 with that crit.
i do have 25% in my M+ gear though so you could do for some more
civic palm
Poisoned Wire is quite awkward to use and while it's better due to the increase I do not see it being much better than other options.
civic palm
Well your MUTs will crit more, so that's nice.
leaden niche
I mean it's more consistent co generartion
pale forum
!traits
warm geode
poison and uldir traits is the way now?
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7orVmdGdZQXQZEZjWXpsK8
pale forum
!azerite
prisma monolithBOT
Do my azerite traits stack?
The damage part of azerite Stacks.
Other components can be assumed to stack however with some exceptions and limitations.
You can check https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/azerite-stacks/1t-t22-assassination for estimations.
civic palm
Poisoned Wire is definitely less weird than Sharpened Blades for when it comes to actually being able to use the damn trait, that's for sure.
pale forum
So did they nerf so again or something where is this information you guys are getting on pw and dd being bis
Ss*
warm geode
bis is uldir traits, matrix and archive -.-``
serene hinge
right do any of these other changes still matter?
warm geode
they r lazy to fix, so they nerf everything
pale forum
But do you stack them... because u only get 1 array right
exotic geode
I just feel so awkward. My traits are everywhere and my rmng has fucked me so hard these past few weeks. I have yet to get any Azerite Uldir gear or a wep upgrade
tawdry breach
yep, and when u finally get your bis traits x3, it's nerfed
never forgetti deadshot x3, ss x3 in m+.. bits x3 on sub
warm geode
someone could coment on this, um using the Master Assassin talent, would be better if i could put env and tb inside the 3sec buff? like
garrote>mutilate>rupture>vendetta>mutilate>vanish>tb>env>mutilate?
exotic geode
I been running with the same gear Ive had since 2- weeks ago.....still no Upgrade
and I play a lot
runic basin
lul sin don't get nerfed
pallid bluff
well deadshot and SS are still good
true thistle
runic basin
lul it isn'T rly a nerf
exotic geode
I was using Shrouded x 2...oh yes I felt that nerf big time
supple hearth
@tawdry breach me on the bottom left
runic basin
sub got nerf
pallid bluff
i was using 3 of them . it hit. but its still fine in M+ and tbh it was out of control
civic palm
... to lazy to fix what? @warm geode
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
warm geode
and traits in general
warm geode
so they nerf everything so the raid drops come to be bis
pallid bluff
the SS bug actually doesnt matter
civic palm
At this point it's a little... late? I dunno.
pallid bluff
you wouldnt want to put a 4th one out anyway
soft steppe
ss bug doesnt matter?
pallid bluff
would rather rupture and CT after your empowered buff ends
civic palm
Be able to cast another Garrote or two would be nice > _>"
warm geode
@pallid bluff prob doenst to much for us, who know the information, but 8->6garrotes with buff is a problem, and ppl who dont use discord o somethign else dk the problem
soft steppe
i agree with miz, another being able to use garrote for the next 18 seconds would be nice
civic palm
It changes less for the people that know nothing about it.
karmic mortar
I dont ever see dpcp discussed, is it not important when talki g about the damage nerf to ss? Still seems like the best choice just by cp generation
civic palm
huh?
pallid bluff
idk id rather use the gcd on getting more ruptures out not sure how it actually maths out but after the opener and getting CT up, and applying at least 3 ruptures and keeping CT up i dont have gcds to spend on more garrotes in most packs
soft steppe
i think it depends on whether you have sob or not, if you do, then its probably worth
to not use garrote i mean
exotic geode
my head is rattled....srry I just wanna go back to striking and getting cps....game is weird now...maybe rogue is not my class anymore lol
pallid bluff
fuck let me log back on and see how much damage rupture does in comparison
karmic mortar
I would think the combo point generation comes into play when weighing the dps ranking of the traits but i dont see it talked about, was wondering why @civic palm
soft steppe
to do as much damage as unbuffed garrote you would need to spend 3 cps on rupture
pallid bluff
which is pretty common
civic palm
It's top JUST because of the DMG, everything else is secondary.
You don't even have to talk about the CP gen/etc.
The DMG is dramatic.
The CP also helps a ton to get a quick CT out and to get to stacking Ruptures.
exotic geode
they do still need to buff that engineer helm by a few I lvls
or give something that does
pallid bluff
idk might be slightly better if the bug didnt exist to get more garrotes out. but i find in the time it takes for the empowered ones to run its course im not looking to garrote again yet
karmic mortar
Thats what i feel as well, which is why to me it would seem to be on top of blades and DD but sims suggest otherwise
civic palm
At some point you're not worried about the Ruptures as FoK + CT is more damage so long as you have the NRG to spam it.
DD isn't good in multi-target.
Because you're not Multilating > _>
@pallid bluff I just want it fixed so the people that fuck it up are not punished SO harshly.
icy temple
In an AOE situation, as im foking and CT and applying ruptures, should i use garrote when out of stealth?
pallid bluff
thats when you jsut say Git Gud 😃
soft steppe
no, the bug is too harsh of a drop off
civic palm
You wanna use Garrote again if targets will live for 75% of the duration and ALL empowered Garrotes had faded.
karmic mortar
Is the bug saying on the same target or is it saying just using a 4th period wipes out the multiplier?
soft steppe
^ if youre doing some really high keys and your groups cleave is shit
civic palm
@pallid bluff I'd say that if this bug wasn't so fucking obtuse.
pallid bluff
when your original ones run off you can but i believe seliathan mentioned he only uses it on 2 or 3 targets
civic palm
Any Garrote.
Seli also doesn't so M+ with potatoes.
So while he's very good his experience doesn't map to most people.
exotic geode
All i did when I had 2 SS traits was Garrote everything in site...when I come out of stealth FoK everything and 4-5 cp rupture shit. Idk if thats right or not
pallid bluff
you only want to use 3 out of stealth
cause the 4th one wipes the SS buff
and then when the empowered ones fall off oyu can reuse it
anyone know if you immediately vanish and apply garrote to 3 more targets if that triggers the bug? i woudlnt think so but blizz is weird
soft steppe
no it doesnt
pallid bluff
gotcha the unbuffed one must just mess with the way they track the damage
safe matrix
its even worse cause
"If you apply a Shrouded Suffocation buffed garrote, ALL your active garrotes gain the SS bonus aswell."
but it isnt worth playing around that part so I just left it in the pins 🤷
pallid bluff
spaghetti code at its finest lol
wise whale
wow i dind know that
wooden island
Well its not uncommon for an old game to get more and more bugs as u just patch over other buggs
pastel wasp
civic palm
Yeah and I think this specifically has something to do with updating individual clones of the same SpellID.
pallid bluff
If your Simming it it doesn’t sin correctly in long encounters
exotic geode
I just remember play combat rogue thru ICC and having to stop playing...and wanting to come back to the game...came back a few mos ago...to my class and confused as fuck to what do to...then someone gave me this discord. I like reading your guys stuff... Teaches me a lot
civic palm
SS is undervalued in SIMs and cannot be simulated correctly due to the constant restealthing.
safe matrix
SS is scuffed in AoE sims
civic palm
SS is better for M+.
pallid bluff
Doesn’t restealth
safe matrix
the sim doesnt do the right opener
pallid bluff
Does the apl not like wasting the combo points?
safe matrix
Yeah, it hasnt been properly optimized
edgy lynx
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
exotic geode
so only use 2 garrotes in a pack?
wooden island
No
pallid bluff
That’s funny cause on the 40sec aoe sims. Ss still blows stuff out of the water
wooden island
Why wud u only put 2
wooden island
Why wud u only put 2
3 = more dmg 1 more silenced target in spme cases and more energy
civic palm
Yeah SS still crushes when used POORLY, haha.
frigid swallow
te mtete mal fragen ob dusonnta0n
exotic geode
I see now. Ok ty for letting me know 3 x
I see.
Been reading so much stuff here that I got kinda confused
terse musk
anyone that could peak at my logs and tell me why I'm bad? :S
wooden island
Just link em and im sure some1 has something to say😅
tender fulcrum
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
terse musk
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Z9Lca23gzWDwMjrp/#fight=5&type=damage-done&source=6
As an example, I'm siming 11k dps ish - but performing way below that.
1x SS, 1x SoB
civic palm
Some fights will not allow you the chance to perform like a robot.
terse musk
Ofc, but still think I have a lot of room for improvement
eager cobalt
Are you pooling energy to make sure you can take advantage of Envenom?
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
blissful hull
!wa
civic palm
Don't pool fucking smash, pooling isn't gonna do shit for an 11% parse.
wise whale
@terse musk you got to work on your garrot and rupture uptimes
civic palm
SIN BFA GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ <-- SIN GUIDE HERE
_>
pallid bluff
Before you exsang
eager cobalt
garrote should be top damage
eager cobalt
Yeah
pallid bluff
On st like that it may not be
terse musk
I think, correct me if I'm wrong the garrote dropping is when I swap to the adds
civic palm
N-Goon
I have a 75% uptime on a DoT where you are near constantly running and for quite a bit of time have nothing to DoT.
terse musk
alright
eager cobalt
It's better to clip it by 1-2 seconds before add swap than to let it fall off
round harbor
Two on use trinkets
civic palm
It's straight up more damage to reapply Garrote early enough so that the CD is back down by the time you get to the next target.
glacial ravine
everyone dont forget to pray to RNJesus, may his bounty be powerful to us all tomorrow..
civic palm
Might not be simming with enchants.
round harbor
If your gonna post a log and ask for review can we have some baseline standard
eager cobalt
imo enchants are so cheap now you should have them
balmy perch
rip sharpened blades
pallid bluff
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ba4LnWK6QJhxmBXy#fight=4&source=12&type=damage-done. Here’s a log of a heroic zek I did 96% ilvl
You can try to compare casts and stuff
civic palm
SB was dead weeks ago > _>
balmy perch
i was honestly never a fan of it
civic palm
and due to you can't be on target forever.
round harbor
You were never gonna stack 3 cause you need the buff
civic palm
The useless item level parse 👌
round harbor
What fight
civic palm
H-Taloc
round harbor
Ew
leaden niche
I got r5 on HC taloc yesterday lol
round harbor
That means u didn't afk like a true gentleman in split phase
civic palm
Don't worry about the meaningful % > _>
round harbor
I cbf for heroic parses
civic palm
We also do it like idiots as well.
Just taking the fucking blob to the edge and not the inner circle.
leaden niche
Stand in blood for more DPS 🤔
civic palm
QUIT STUNNING THE BLOBS
strange python
ikr
round harbor
My avg best % is higher on mythic than heroic LMAO
pallid bluff
Hey man for us casual m+ players heroic parse are the real deal /s
strange python
the ranged always cc them so far away
and i cant stand in the blood to dps on mythic
leaden niche
HC is more fun, less giving a shit about mechanics
round harbor
@pallid bluff the irony is that I would never invite someone without mythic logs to my m+ lmao
strange python
yup
leaden niche
Shadowstep immediately when he charges etc
civic palm
I just link my M-Taloc and get into every Normal clear like the Chad I am.
leaden niche
It's a different skill set
pallid bluff
^
leaden niche
Can't afk on trash for m+ either 😣
round harbor
I play outlaw in dungeons tho
civic palm
Plus there are already M10 carries.
There ain't no fucking Mythic Raid carry IIRC.
Minus like..
Taloc/Mother
strange python
taloc is pretty easy on mythic tbf
round harbor
Trade chat pugging mythi. Mother is hilarious
leaden niche
Yeah taloc myth easier than guun normal
leaden niche
Standing 5 yards away from me is many difficult
leaden niche
Warriors who charge during zekvoss beam and that ghuun ability 🤔
strange python
some dps prance around like idiots on ghuun and just multiply stacks for everyone
fucking hate that
leaden niche
I find a spot n stand still because I'm not a mong
leaden niche
I'd tell them to move on comms, I get. Protective over spots
It throws off my routine lol
strange python
its hard dealing with idiots
strange python
clown fiesta
wooden island
I like on 2nd feast when ppl stack with debuff
primal patio
So... Which traits do we go for now for monotg
jagged kindle
Is there a reason Construct Overcharger is such garbage for all Rogue specs? I thought Haste is a good thing, esp for Assassination? Just had one drop of M Taloc w/ a socket but had to scroll all the way down on the trinket dps list to find it
wooden island
Most of the uldir trinkets ræare not good for rogue
M+ trinkets are better
But as i have not tested the trinket or looked too much into it i can only make assumptions to why it sims bad
jagged kindle
Did some more digging, I think it's just the proc is very seldom so it doesn't stack to appreciable levels. Kind of like Frenetic Corpuscle barely reaching max stacks to proc the attack. Blizz balancing gg.
primal patio
If only they put ppm in the tooltips
wooden island
Yeah its very vauge information atm
And there is no way of knowing if it will be good other then to sim or sit at a dummie for 1 hr
white lance
To what
opaque tree
On raidbots, if an item is a - .1 % dps loss, is that something you'd consider automatically changing out a piece for?
basically flipped stats on wrists, same ilvl, same stats, but just more haste than crit on the newer ones
hybrid thicket
DH.... till now its broken and received another buffs. Easy reroll.
rose dove
Drop the 
then, and come back when DH gets shafted
hybrid thicket
Exactly my plan
rose dove
Then go whatever is FOTM next month
serene hinge
under what circumstances, in general, is exsang better than toxic blade?
hybrid thicket
Before ss nerf, my friend was 5ilvl under me as DH and still he managed to go even with me. Also I had 3xSS !!!
serene hinge
it's never toped toxic in my sims for myself
daring iron
Having a DH pull even in aoe is pretty normal
Especially in lower keys if you’re sin, we need adds to live through our bleeds
hybrid thicket
At the boss he got me after the empowered garrote runned out. Easily and his dmg was just going further. After rogues get some buffs I come back. I wont play 4 times in a row nerfed class just because blizzard is biased.
Look at sub in arena, its a fuckin joke now and it is getting nerfed more. Like WTF ?
hybrid thicket
What are you running then in arenas ?
wooden island
Assa rmp
hybrid thicket
And traits ?
wooden island
MP subterfuge and tb
Pb
Pvp traitsni swap around but always deadly
Most of the time system shock and smpke bomb
serene hinge
they just need to fix azerite honestly
there's huge swings in damage and gearing cuz they fuck with it every 2 days
lol
obtuse robin
blade of shadows must do some serious scaling at high item level to warrant another nerf jesus
serene hinge
wait how is it fixed?
civic palm
How are the SIN traits NOT fixed?
serene hinge
isnt it now just everythign is worse than raid traits?
civic palm
in 7 weeks, sure.
chilly oasis
Honestly, it's getting fking pathethic when it comes to rogue nerfs. But look at the other classes, we will buff them right away!
obtuse robin
i mean garrote still bugs after 3x ss on 4th garrote that counts as not fixed
civic palm
The other classes getting "buffs" are numbers changes to traits that none of them used due to those traits being crap.
So some research.
I do not think that the Garrote Empowerment bug will be fixed soon.
if ever.
chilly oasis
Okay then, just stick to the nerfs and garrote bug, isn't it engouh?
serene hinge
lol dont take what i said as a personal assault, but i mean the traits that were top keep getting nerfed and new traits move up to be nerfed again
and then they kinda said fuck it and raid traits shot to the top
i may misunderstand something so i apologize if i do
civic palm
The raid traits that are on top are those traits after 5 and 10 weeks of empowering them.
serene hinge
but it feels like every time i finish a 3 set, it sims lower than a mess of raid traits even without a full 10 stack on array
civic palm
Would be kinda shit if they were just bad.
They're not sets > _>
Item Level > Traits for Raiding.
serene hinge
i mean im saying like i replace everything i have
civic palm
If you wanna stack SS go do M+.
chilly oasis
That all is cool, but like, i switched from 3x SS to 3x SB, and guess what, they will be also nerfed, not to mention that 3xSB sucks at PVP
civic palm
SB is shit (even worse now)
serene hinge
i mean sure
civic palm
3xSB wasn't good in raids to begin with.
warped tendon
After my opening garrote expires do i vanish and reapply or sync it with vendetta
serene hinge
right
civic palm
You can't perform like the SIM.
Vanish and reapply them, holding Vanish for 2min is too long.
warped tendon
Then hold vendetta or
civic palm
The gap between Vendetta and Vanish should be under 20 seconds.
frank wyvern
dont think you should hold anything
civic palm
sync them after the opener.
frank wyvern
^
civic palm
and SS isn't even as good as Twist for raiding now.
Which is good, cuz Twist is neat.
warped tendon
Also have dooms wake macrod in with vendetta so I don’t want to squander it
civic palm
Sure.
primal patio
And what about double dose?
civic palm
That's 2min ye?
warped tendon
Yup
civic palm
DD is king for raiding
Just read the charts, all the information is there.
Just remember how the traits work and if that can be applied to your gameplay.
primal patio
I was wooried because i got them double doses, and you guys talked about twist the knife
civic palm
They're similar.
warped tendon
I’ve got archive ss and sylvanas on my raid gear
primal patio
I think twist will get better with time
warped tendon
Best i can do
primal patio
We need more crit
civic palm
Twist will get better but by the time we have more crit we will also have new Traits.
thorny basin
Twist with Master Assassin have different opener?
primal patio
I hope we get sth similar to kingsblade
primal patio
I miss thst poison
cyan stump
what are you guys running for m+ ?
primal patio
M+ is SS
civic palm
SS/FoK
primal patio
FoK can pull extra
obtuse robin
DD is better then ss if u run tb
civic palm
Play better 😛
warped tendon
It’d be great if they buffed the ass traits before ruining the op ones so we’d have more options but hey
obtuse robin
ss is better if u run esx
primal patio
DD is monotarget
obtuse robin
ss is king in m+
primal patio
M+ is pull after pull
cyan stump
yes i am currently running assa for m+ and i have 3xss with exsg
cyan stump
feels better than sub for m+
civic palm
w/e you like better and feel like you are still contributing 👌
obtuse robin
for raid DD if using tb ss if using esx
small fiber
What do you think about the poison wire buff? Worth to take it and change the gearing a bit more to haste mastery ?
civic palm
I mean...
You can use DD with EX and do the same damage potentially.
SS isn't tied to EX.
primal patio
IMO wire is shit
polar timber
4th week of nerfs, they nerf it we find something else to use then they nerf that till were below disc
gray shuttle
Poisoned wire still bad?
obtuse robin
yea
civic palm
"nerfs"
civic palm
The threshold is when you have a higher SS piece.
obtuse robin
lol yeah
warped tendon
Since ss is so hard to sim i have no clue
gray shuttle
SS is still top dps for m+
obtuse robin
siming will not translate ss in m+ well
civic palm
It's designed around restealthing, period.
warped tendon
Alright I’ll take your word for it
civic palm
Annoyingly you will have to do some feelycraft when it comes to M+ but SS is designed for the format.
gray shuttle
SS 40% nerf but they need Vanish to become 1min30sec cd
civic palm
ie. You are restealthing A LOT.
obtuse robin
ss is so behind on herodamage in m+ chart but its clearly not the case
civic palm
SS could have taken more of a hit and it would still win M+
Scent is that high due to the character in the APL not returning to stealth or having a good opener.
warped tendon
Anybody got a link to this round of nerfs
obtuse robin
x2 ss x1 scent is good aswell
warped tendon
On my phone and I’m old
civic palm
Laser Matrix is probably in there somewhere.
obtuse robin
and engi head ofc
civic palm
obtuse robin
about 3 viable choices
all revolving arounbd ss
rip subs
outlaw might be 2nd
now
warped tendon
Hated sb anyway
warped tendon
Felt like a gimmick
obtuse robin
yea but thats one here one boss there
cyan stump
1 was using just 1 bits anyway as a sub
obtuse robin
very limited
warped tendon
I hate post wod sub tbh
obtuse robin
subs r at their peak now with infested but that affix is a joke no 1 cares
warped tendon
Never liked the changes
civic palm
There's a chance that their recent buff is coming to propel them higher.
Yeah the affix is a joke NOW.
Give it 20 fucking levels O _O
or they fucking buff it during the off-season and it comes back ChadAF.
civic palm
We've CT.
No need.
and you don't want us to get nerfed in regards to NRG regen.
So stop wishing for it now > _>
little frigate
they can remove sub for all I care; shittiest spec in game
signal sonnet
Does shadowmeld/stealth work in boss fights to get up SS mutilates?
warped tendon
Used to be the best spec
cyan stump
@little frigate ok sure
civic palm
hyuk
little frigate
Shittiest as in, I don't like the way it plays shit. I'm not referring to numbers
obtuse robin
no these r live hotfixes
little frigate
I think these are hotfixes on live
obtuse robin
and more coming on tusday
warped tendon
I don’t like it either
little frigate
but they arent too bad right?
warped tendon
Too much downtime
signal sonnet
What's wrong with sub ? Not played it yet
little frigate
It's just a complete mess
warped tendon
I just haven’t liked the play style since wod
little frigate
Subtlety should just become a kage bunshin ninja tanking spec
how awesome would that be
hollow cloud
im so happy im done with zul for this week 
means I can play assa again
warped tendon
It’d be exactly like ninja in ffxi lol
little frigate
aye
signal sonnet
Is sub any good for cleave ?
little frigate
which is fine, since ffxi is a carbon copy of wow (no hate intended)
little frigate
/puke
restive bluff
is herodamage updated with recent hotfix?
warped tendon
Wtb subjob mechanics
strange python
Was it Double Dose that might be worth running? How many?
winged veldt
i was a ninja tank in that game lol it was hella fun. world second on killing all the damn dragons when they dropped em in the game without warning lol
damn japanese beat us to the first kill as always lol
little frigate
poisoned wire i think borka
signal sonnet
Fuck me , sub so high on Warcraft logs for zul, what the reason for that ?
little frigate
mechanic cheesing
warped tendon
First time leveling in the dunes was scary af
hollow cloud
cause you can shuriken spam
little frigate
shuriken
strange python
yup
civic palm
HD update will be open later today more than likely.
hollow cloud
You'll always be getting full cp (almost always) so you basicly have a 2button rotation
civic palm
after NA reset.
little frigate
funny thing is that theres nothing subtle about subtlety
winged veldt
i use to get bored and go way down bottom grabbing all the high lvl stuff and train it up top and use my two hr and explode and watch the murdering happen lol
viral aurora
Well, I’m still waiting for a ranged ninja rogue spec
signal sonnet
Can that be used in mythic + effectively?
warped tendon
People complain about us enough
little frigate
rogues should have one shadow close / evasion tanking spec. But blizztard is lazy
winged veldt
sub. yea its not bad at all in M+
little frigate
clone*
viral aurora
Just throw a just of stuff. Shurikens knives bombs. Even tampons for a bleed spec
little frigate
cant. dks already use tampons
hollow cloud
tampons for bleed spec 
winged veldt
we need a bard!
hollow cloud
yinkers
winged veldt
bro they were nasty if played right lol. i sucked at em
warped tendon
Bard was dnd shit long before it was anime shit
little frigate
everything about FF11 and 1 4 was nasty barh
viral aurora
Bards just buff everything with their sweet angel voice, Augmented by agility ofc
little frigate
you might be right arena
winged veldt
a good raid bard knew his distance without addons and could give different buffs to all the people that needed em and not overlap lol
warped tendon
Bard in dnd is a pretty gnarly caster class with tons of control
My favorite dnd class tbh
solid nova
-> #off-topic
winged veldt
slow movement, slow cast speed, reduce healing reviced/done, dots, buffs
amazing support
lol true
warped tendon
Sorry Richard I’m old
solid nova
All is forgiven
viral aurora
Sounds like an undead thing to say
little frigate
All is forsaken
winged veldt
back to rmp. later guys
little frigate
better?
viral aurora
So. Archive of the titans, any good in dungeons? Seems lackluster
vestal venture
which one is the to-go talent nowadays, tb or exsang?
little frigate
both very close in sims
warped tendon
Situational
winged veldt
there a new list of what class racials rank as far as dps is concerned?
solid nova
Yeah, in the pins, Bloodmallet has rankings
winged veldt
awesome thnx
little frigate
racials barely matter, but human, belf and velf are on top i think
oh im very wrong. nvm
warped tendon
Panda double food buff op
vestal venture
@little frigate they do, touch of the grave(?)
winged veldt
yea pandas were top for awhile then dropped through expacs
winged veldt
lmao
proper igloo
ideal raid traits?
winged veldt
room goes quiet lol
little frigate
haha
winged veldt
see the problem here lol
winged veldt
1 archive 2 ss with exang is what i have been hearing but not positive and trying to figure it out myself tbh
hollow cloud
Thats what im gonna sim right now :p
But yeah gonna check 2x archive vs 1x archive & 2x SS
and 3x archive
vestal venture
i’m having 1x archive 1x ss and 1x dd now
not gonna ever replace 1x ss the 3 cp is such a QoL thing
proper igloo
so its 3 bosses per week to upgrade it rights?
vestal venture
aye
little frigate
but archive only works in uldir right
proper igloo
i killed 3 but only have 2 stacks
little frigate
same kyle
proper igloo
bug?
vestal venture
yeah archive only works in uldir. i had to even equip construct overcharger 375 with 40 haste socket to make my archive buff increase haste instead of crit
it works even mid combat. with no overcharger stacks my crit is buffed and with 4 overcharger stacks it buffs my haste
hollow cloud
vestal venture
lucky that i got one with the socket tho even tho the trinket otherwise is pretty bad
vestal venture
yeah
little frigate
my 380 sims lower than my 355 harlan
vestal venture
now its 400 + 40 + 225 haste
hollow cloud
Cant you just snapshot the stat it buffs?
Or does it change depending on ur mainstat changing?
eg non-agility mainstat going higher than other
lost coral
does SS still bug out on 4th garrote?
hollow cloud
Dunno if I made the question clear or not
little frigate
yes cham
proper igloo
azerite system is absolute dog shit
little frigate
agreed
vestal venture
sorry not native speaker and i rly dont know what snapshotting means but in my case when im out of combat, my crit is buffed because its being my highest secondary, and in combat after gaining 3-4 stacks of trinket my haste gets buffed
lost coral
unluckz
vestal venture
sorry for unclear description
little frigate
better than set bonuses though
vestal venture
hah
hollow cloud
ah
so it changes
I figured it maybe just takes whatever stat is highest before the fight and buffs that (and only that stat) throughout the fight
Didnt know it worked that way 😛
vestal venture
nah it changed mid combat, not for bl though cause it just buffs your haste% and not the stat itself
pale knot
feelsbad when i had 2 385 with sb
cosmic pier
what traits are bis for pvp?
fervent hearth
So I got this right? SS is strong, I stack SS, SS gets nerfed. Sharpened Blades is 2nd strongest, I collect Sharpened Blades, it gets nerfed again. Why do I even bother?
strange python
@cosmic pier Pikaboo uses 2x scent of blood and 1x shrouded suffocation
ebon zodiac
Twist the Knife is also pretty good for pvp
lone slate
It's kind of simple really, the traits you can get in the raid are going to be bis for raiding in most cases, for m+ 3x SS atm
I wouldn't bother farming specifically
chrome umbra
Tomorrow somewhere some rogue will get his third 385 SS piece and struggle through a +5. Be happy friends
fervent hearth
uldir raid traits suck in m+ though @hollow cloud
hollow cloud
who cares about m+ tho
fervent hearth
i do, since i don't have a raid group. no time due to RL
fervent hearth
wow talking to you is very fun. not.
@lone slate still 3x SS? that's good to know.
onyx raft
The dungeons are designed around m+, thats why most packs actually have mechanics that you have to worry about. In legion there was no mechanics in trash, which is why fortified weeks in legion was PISS easy
hollow cloud
Doesnt make sense to me at all then
Trash has more mechanics than bosses
Hits harder
And glitches everywhere with AoE pulling everywhere
On the other hand Garrote gameplay is fun 
onyx raft
because in legion, the dungeons were not designed around m+ being a thing, so when they made the bosses and such, they didnt think about tyrani weeks and forti weeks. If you followed m+ in legion with people like Fragnance who did high keys, every single one of them said that tyri weeks were impossible to do on high keys, since bosses dealt like 15M damage with 1 ability
Now they have kinda balanced it out, so that you dont get one hit by bosses on tyri weeks, and trash is hard on forti weeks
weak pine
HoV... qrrr
hollow cloud
Who would've known
A boss (a mob designed to hurt more than regular trash) that gets 300+% scaling
hurts
yinkers
weak pine
Yea didn't see that one coming
weak pine
onyx raft
HoV Helya was fucking horrifying
austere bear
HoV Helya
hollow cloud
Yeh especially since she didnt exist there
austere bear
??
hollow cloud
Even more horrifying
onyx raft
fuck
hollow cloud
teal glen
Helya 
onyx raft
their names are so similar
weak pine
Maybe they are the same person but in disguise
hollow cloud
strange python
when did this become twitch chat
hollow cloud
I honestly never played Club Penguin 
fresh bough
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
versed osprey
Bfa dungeons are 1000 times better designed around mythic plus anyone can see that
fresh bough
Wow it's still bugged l....
strange python
will it ever be fixed
weak pine
No
teal glen
isn't it a feature
weak pine
They'd have to nerf it again if they did tbh
frank wyvern
press button
strange python
press it
frank wyvern
poooof
weak pine
Go to spellbook
frank wyvern
dont forget to buy vanishing powder tho
fresh bough
I have it bound to "V"
strange python
blocked those 3 anyone mind helping me?
fresh bough
Often miss press it when opening bags lel
frank wyvern
LOL
strange python
fresh bough
Fat finger it before a boss pull lmao
solid nova
@strange python The rotations, including vanish with and without SS is within the guide
weak pine
No need to be a meania for jokes
teal glen
wait without SS
frank wyvern
in be4 he block like half of the discord
teal glen
nvm
inland path
so many rude people in this chat
solid nova
I'd ss you but mobile :/
inland path
and i get warned for calling people briefcases :/
frank wyvern
rude =/= joking
strange python
who has been rude
devout jolt
I sim higher with MA so I use it after 4/5 cp's and Envenom @strange python
teal glen
if you don't use SS try simming MA
inland path
rly sad community smh...........................
frank wyvern
but i guess some have pretty low tolerance
weak pine
That's like 0 tolerance
solid nova
@inland path Your warning was for more than that as you're aware after speaking with Don Jose. It's the spec channels, not a place for moderation complaints. That's what Dms are for.
inland path
🤔
weak pine
And we were getting to answering
weak pine
After the initial jokes
strange python
yeah
inland path
yeah im sure he knew that
weak pine
Also 
for him
inland path
im gonna go hang out in the demon hunter discord for a bit guys... theyre actually nice there.. cya..........................
frank wyvern
lol
solid nova
Bye
strange python
go on
frank wyvern
yeah, who's being rude now
inland path
😠
strange python
go already
frank wyvern
double standards ftw
cobalt bobcat
hey guys, how do you target adds in m+ for garrotte out of stealth? Are you clicking on nameplates or tab-targeting? tab targeting seems faster, but sometimes it targets something outside of melee range and then you lose out on a buffed garrotte :X
teal glen
DHs 
frank wyvern
most of the times tab targets it right
since it picks targets with no debuffs
but sometimes it does target some shit far away
strange python
i click personally if its like.. 4+ enemies
frank wyvern
and its annoying 😄
strange python
otherwise tab
weak pine
You can bind a target switch to the thing in front of you from keybinds
frank wyvern
you would never say tab is so smart sometimes
teal glen
not at Zul
frank wyvern
it does pick targets without garrote or targets without rupture first tho, so its pretty neat in like 90% of situations
weak pine
But you have to tab twice if it picks something that already has grrrrote
frank wyvern
still faster then clicking
weak pine
Debateably so
frank wyvern
😄
cobalt bobcat
clicking can get fucked up when the nameplates move around
frank wyvern
in wod it was only after first two tiers that i have found out our offtank druid was a clicker, and we often been thinking how the hell does this guy misses pressing some stuff
weak pine
mythic?
frank wyvern
i really cannot see how would i play if i had to click onto buttons
frank wyvern
it was heroic, but it doesnt matter
weak pine
I do that sometimes
teal glen
clicking is nothing, i had a tank in Legion(Blood Dk) that played with a 1 button macro
frank wyvern
well yeah, ofc you gonna click some random shit
but like main abilities and stuff
soooo much slower i cannot comprehend
not like you need to move with mouse or see shit around you
😄
weak pine
Most bosses you can click stuff easily
frank wyvern
i can understand people with disabilities doing that, but normal healthy people no
teal glen
doing mechanics is overrated
timid grotto
poor sub rog 
weak pine
Achivements is where it's at 👌
frank wyvern
😄
teal glen
why do mechanics when you can just cos most of em 👌
bright stump
Is the Garrote bug gone? We can garrote more then 3 targets now?
teal glen
no
charred lantern
no
bright stump
Ffs
unreal sundial
Rotation Question: whats the general view with 4 combo envenoms, is it better to 4combo envenom or muti a 5th combo and even then?
obviously you are wasting a combo, but it 'feels'weird to 4 combo envenom
green bison
It's been like that since BC
teal glen
Envenom is used just to maintain its buff and EP there's nothing wrong about using it with 4 cp
if you mut at 4 you waste cp and energy
potentially you waste 3 cp
unreal sundial
mmh, thank you
viral plinth
sharpened blades hotfix monkamega
faint harness
They destroyed SB with that hotfix
frank shard
I can replace ditb with SS but it’s simming as a dps loss
faint harness
🤷
viral plinth
double dose or dagger in the back?
teal glen
why are they still nerfing sub smh
weak pine
Zul mythic
weak pine
It deals basically double damage7
Out of top 100 mythic dps there's 92 subs, 1 havoc, 1 arms and 6 frost mages
teal glen
ok but they nerfed bits, you rarely use SS here
teal glen
grand trail
Hello folks, I returned after 2 y break
steady grotto
Quit while you're ahead lmao
grand trail
Is assa same old thing with spreading rupture and garrote everywhere ?
steady grotto
Yah
teal glen
kinda
civic palm
SIN BFA GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ <-- SIN GUIDE HERE
weak pine
static tapir
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
civic palm
Correct.
vale marten
not currently
civic palm
3, wait for them to fade.
Move on to next pack because that other one SHOULD be dead.
static tapir
Where did u see Sub nerf?
weak pine
If you got no SS traits you can spread 4
inland path
hey guys, what would you reroll to if you couldnt play rogue again? 😃
dawn merlin
why is Sub so strong in Zul anyway, compared to sin?
weak pine
Prolly quit
inland path
cus u can spam shur>evisc the whole fight
grand trail
I see
weak pine
@dawn merlin you're basically asking why your little brother with a little down is not able to punch as hard as you
grand trail
Although I don't even know which trait I have since I'm still 333 scrub(leveled Saturday)
dawn merlin
well, I always find myself ahead of our sub rogue, even with 6 ilvls less
so my reality has been a bit different
faint harness
maybe he's bad
weak pine
Not in hectic add cleave
warm parcel
That hes doing hc and not mythic
dawn merlin
hc indeed
inland path
xd
grand trail
Why the SS trait exatly do?
teal glen
empower stealth garrotes
grand trail
What*
dawn merlin
condescending passive agressiveness is great too tho
grand trail
Oh okay
inland path
😮
grand trail
I guess best traits I find in guide too 😀
weak pine
Best traits is... debateable
viral charm
from wow analyzer im wasting 50% of combo points from using poison blade on cooldown, is it still better to use it on CD reguardless if i waste points or not
weak pine
Sounds like you're pooling wrong
Obviously you never want to waste CP if possible
What I do is plan 10s ahead, looking at my cooldowns, dots and energy flow
Trying to make sure I don't waste any CP when TB comes up
civic palm
Could be using TB and overcapping, don't do that.
acoustic cave
yo guys what do you thinking about poisened wire buff?
or should I say hotfix overall
primal patio
poisoned wire is still useless
weak pine
Still bad
flat ocean
mut hits like a wet noodle
primal patio
Use DD
flat ocean
Outlaw will probs be king
acoustic cave
I am mostly doing mythic + I got a boosting team etc I guess SS still better
primal patio
Yep
flat ocean
SS should be strongest on MT