that's pointless lol
#assassination
daring iron
dark token
it should be 3rd
modest zodiac
TFW my 340 and 355 rings sim better than my 365 and 370
onyx falcon
wonder if you can do 4 w/ the buff at the end of ToS when you can have >100% haste
basically get legion GCD back
hollow stone
Haste doesnt change rogue gcd
dark token
how did you upload training dummy log @lone junco
onyx falcon
look... it feels like it... so i want it to be true
dark token
i combatlogged it but i cant upload with wcl
onyx falcon
dont ruin my dream
marble hemlock
what the fuck is "legion GCD"
meager knoll
global cooldown in legion?
lone junco
@dark token just used the live logger.
marble hemlock
we're in the rogue discord, or am i writing in the wrong one?
hollow stone
Quick, everyone ask seli what to run for m+
primal gazelle
"hey everybody check out this buggy rotation that lowers your dps!"
marble hemlock
rogue has had 1sec GCD baseline ever since the game released 14 and a half years ago
unaffected by haste
dark token
dumbass im only casting the 5th gcd to show that garrote is still available
yes ofc its bad in real world
it would be a dps up in rotation somewhere if one could cast 4 gcds in subterfuge
daring iron
stahp
primal gazelle
cant you just screenshot your combat log
marble hemlock
can all the people who rerolled to rogue just because its op now go back to their previously OP classes please and stop spreading misinformation about how haste allegedly scales our GCD?
meager knoll
not sure anyone really said that, maybe one person
primal gazelle
would look like this
:01, gain subtger, cast vendetta
:02, cast garrote
.03, cast garrote
.04 cast garrote
.05 cast Garrote
.04 - .05 subtger fades
if youre right
marble hemlock
snail, it creeps up more often than you think
read people making claims like that for like 4 times in the last couple of days
lone junco
yeah., thats why I logged. it. people were arguing for hours.
meager knoll
alright, I didn't even play in legion, skipped a few expansions so I don't even know what the deal with the legion GCD is
marble hemlock
its pretty simple. ever since cata/mop more and more classes had their GCD scale with haste. except for rogue/feral, who always had 1sec GCD (feral only in cat-form)
marble hemlock
what is that log supposed to show?
dark token
that i got 4 gcds in subterfuge
lone junco
I used "feelycraft" in a corporate setting.
primal gazelle
^
dark token
no one cares if you dont understand its not about the 4th garrote its the fact you get 4 gcds
get your 1 iq brain out of here
arctic isle
wtf he got 4 casts in 4 seconds with our 1 second gcd WOW
dark token
i got 4 casts in 3 seconds
the first one is from stealth and doesnt show in the warcraftlog
meager knoll
eh
hoary copper
@gusty kestrel dont you wish you still had SB?
solid nova
Not entirely sure what this shit show is, but it stops here.
What a mess.
I dont want to see any continuation of it
marble hemlock
funpolice arrived
primal gazelle
LOL
marble hemlock
hide your drums, hide your galecallers, no 4 subterfuges allowed cause richard said so 😦
arctic isle
hey guys i have no idea what is happening but im a mod so shut up thanks
hoary copper
Look Don arrived in a Richard costume
nimble tartan
its only a mess because people are very dismissive
and are failing to even read or understand what frozensoviet is saying
hoary copper
fastmod
solid nova
Regardless, if its turning into people insulting eachother, its already stepped the mark.
dark token
i cast 4 gcds in subterfuge
civic palm
O _O
nimble tartan
they are just parroting and saying u can only empower 3 which is what we ALL already know, and he knows that as well
dark token
im saying its bugged can anyone confirm it works for them too
nimble tartan
but hes saying he got 4 and we dont need u to parrot basic sin rules that we know already
dark token
^
nimble tartan
i would help and test but im at work teehee
lone junco
that was a sin meme. was made at the previous discussion of 4subt garrotes.
test patience?
oy
civic palm
leaves
arctic isle
u realize the last garrote doesnt cause cd?
so u can easily get another one after
ur log literally just shows u casting another garrote
which is entirely normal
primal gazelle
link the log
arctic isle
u can easily g, v g g and then garrote again outside of subt
lone junco
id rather not bug. gggct or go
silk jolt
you can only cast 3 garrotes idiots
marble hemlock
i spammed garrote vendetta garrote garrote garrote
and lo and behold
ITS NOT EMPOWERED
can we stop now?
dark token
yes the last one isnt empowered
marble hemlock
then whats your point?
silk jolt
takes you 10s to test on dummy
dark token
it wasnt on cd
arctic isle
its so easy that wasnt his point @silk jolt
marble hemlock
yes, its not on CD
marble hemlock
yes. you always are
arctic isle
how does garrote from stealth work 4head
marble hemlock
it literally shows that not all 4 are in subterfuge
primal gazelle
you realize you can cast garrote outside of subterfuge right??
marble hemlock
otherwise it would still be empowered?
civic palm
Well you see if you take the Subterfuge talent...
primal gazelle
like normally?
dark token
ok fine since you guys dont understand just do garrote vendetta garrote garrote rupture
lone junco
anyway
silk jolt
if you cast garrotte out of subterfuge it fucks the rest
marble hemlock
i did
silk jolt
so you dont
dark token
it will still be empowered
silk jolt
no
marble hemlock
i just linked you my combatlog
dark token
you cast 4
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
silk jolt
READ
dark token
ofc the 4th one wont be empowered
silk jolt
READ
dark token
you overrode the empowered one
civic palm
Frozen either link a log showing the Empowered Garrote(s) or stop.
nimble tartan
clipse can u shutup lmao
lone junco
clipse. stop.
silk jolt
1,2,3,4 all not empowered
nimble tartan
where's richard to MOD
solid nova
I swear i will mute you all.
nimble tartan
why all
primal gazelle
link the log, i will show you where the subterfuge buff expires before your 4th garrote
civic palm
ducks and runs
shy kestrel
corner timeouts for all
primal gazelle
but you can still cast the 4th regardless, like you always couldve but shouldnt
silk jolt
holy.fucking.shit
solid nova
Whatever this feelycraft is, unless you've got a clear cut log to show what you're talking about
Dont write anything else
nimble tartan
no you're supposed to mod bad behavior not discussion richard
solid nova
Once is enough, dont push limits
dark token
im just tired of people not understanding something very simple
silk jolt
^
marble hemlock
this isnt a discussion, this is an attempt at long-distance lobotomy
floral pawn
after i get my rupt/garotte up and then exsang, do i need to let those fall off or can i refresh them normally
solid nova
@nimble tartan I'm aware of my role, thank you for the input.
strange python
Why would u do 4 garrotes lmao
dark token
to show the 3rd one didnt put on cd
dark token
4th shouldnt even be castable
ripe nimbus
1 like 1 prayer
civic palm
...
primal gazelle
00:00:03.763 Frozensoviet casts Garrote on Raider's Training Dummy
marble hemlock
strange python
4th is castable because first 3 are used within subter buff
dark token
marble hemlock
primal gazelle
but your 4th garrote isnt in subterfuge
lone junco
thats not even his point. he was expecting the vendetta to eat one of his gcd.
primal gazelle
you jsut said u casted 4 within subtefuge
primal gazelle
but you casted 3
marble hemlock
your 3rd garrote is at 02.762, subterfuge fades at 02.892, which is why the last one is not on CD
ripe nimbus
What are u guys even arguing about.. now question your selfs is this worst wasting my life talking about
dark token
one from stealth that doesnt show in logs
floral pawn
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
dark token
for casts
ripe nimbus
STOP WASTING UR LIVES
placid elbow
When should i be using my Galecaller's trinket in a rotation?
lone junco
cant think of a reason to mash vendetta between the 3 garrotes for a gain, due to tick delays.
@placid elbow prior to exang
placid elbow
and if i'm not using exsang? lol
civic palm
Did you know, that you could cast infinite Garrotes if Subterfuge lasted forever?
lone junco
open, then on cd. to align with vendetta
marble hemlock
infinite+1 actually mize
civic palm
Still infinite.
hard sonnet
anyone bored wanna help me figure out why im bad at single target dps? lol
meager knoll
he is accurate
lone junco
4p20 all the garrotes!
meager knoll
infinite+1 is infinite
lone junco
@hard sonnet post a log, and a raidbot summary
placid elbow
alighning it with Vendetta, is that a waste of energy?
lone junco
GC? the haste trinket?
placid elbow
since you're capping?
strange python
lolwhat
lone junco
run your simc and read the apl, if you dont like my answer.
floral pawn
after i get my rupt/garotte up and then exsang, do i need to let those fall off or can i refresh them normally
marble hemlock
let them fall off and refresh immediately
lone junco
it will give cast by cast. of a way it could work.
civic palm
SIN BFA GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ <-- SIN GUIDE HERE
ripe comet
you refresh After falloff
modest zodiac
Are there sims for M+ ??
floral pawn
ty team
modest zodiac
Raid bots only for raids
undone cairn
6t 40 secs
lone junco
@modest zodiac negative
marble hemlock
no, theres no easy way to simulate parameters of a m+ dungeon
closest you can do is get statweights by doing something like 6target, 40sec patchwerk
modest zodiac
Maybe selective hectic add cleave
marble hemlock
and disable raidbuffs
add cleave adds waves of adds at 0:00 and 0:30 (and later one even more), all of which are not really adequate to describe a m+ trash fight
youre better off with patchwerk
modest zodiac
so i go advanced siming and specify my own stuff?
marble hemlock
since technically theres no difference between a 6mob council like fight or a 6mob trashfight
ripe comet
6 bosses 40 Sec is pretty good
sudden estuary
Is it not worth going assassination until I get to a certain ilvl? Am 29
ripe comet
no biffs
sudden estuary
292
ripe comet
besides Flash food
proven knoll
is vanish just broken half the time? I vanish and the mobs don't even reset at all
modest zodiac
how do you specify 6 bosses 40 sec?
lone junco
settings
modest zodiac
oh nvm got it
undone cairn
dont forget to remove buffs
ripe comet
lone junco
ripe comet
Simulation options
modest zodiac
ty
lone junco
you are smart enough to turn that stuff on and off. but I dont use vendetta vanish every pull either.
just be consistent
sim needs to be close to your actual damage profile. so you can compare stat weights and trinkets.
hard sonnet
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ces4upbBuKyZSyQDGQroJU
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/tK7k3C82MmgdZ9Yj#fight=18&type=damage-done&source=8
@lone junco
solid nova
!mute @nimble tartan 6h Moderator insults
For those that seem to forget how spec channels work you can take as long as you need to read #rules-and-guides
Insults of any context as well as channel disruption within the spec channels is a no go. If you'd like to discuss moderation, DMs are always open.
hard sonnet
my fetid probably closest to not needing to move and sim, was probably my top damage ive done, but still much lower than other people my ilvl
is my 13% haste completly fucking me?
lone junco
@hard sonnet well. number 1. you have like 10 ilvl on me and 500dps lower sim.
your mastery is high and haste is low.
- get a gc trinket.
- your open is ok. vanishes are ok but missing a few exang per fight.
if you know the fight will end before your 3rd vanish you need to fire off that exang vendetta oncd. like a short fetid
meager knoll
and if you have GC you line up the exsang with the GC cooldown
lone junco
example of a short fetid.
TTD tracker will be a bit off on fetid due to the enrage. but if you know it is about 220, then you wont get that 2nd vanish aligned. so fire off the vendetta.
and going across walls early sucks on mother i guess.
i put myself in the tank group
hard sonnet
yeah always been designated first with guild lol
arctic isle
when he calls ur name just say no
lone junco
well. I would send low dps early as well.
arctic isle
or say yes and dont actually go
lone junco
tbh, if you have trouble with the rotation, I would learn TB first i guess.
winged veldt
^ or explain the class because he def lacks the knowledge and link him here to us to explain lol
hard sonnet
well me and tank go usually, cause i can kick or stun them
lone junco
If a raider told me to learn the class first, and they arent pumping out oranges, i would say "play a different class" or just 👢
If they are 98-100 I will take their advice on fights when they arent.
winged veldt
True
lone junco
warrior beats me occasionally., So i ask him, how i can use him better.
after he stabs boss once.
winged veldt
Hahahahahahahahahaha
arctic isle
but how can u pump out oranges if ur raid leader has no idea and gives u shit jobs 🤔
lone junco
it is what it is.
lone junco
for me, in my guild. I would send a sin rogue later in the run. but if he is getting dumpstered by the warlocks and hunters, he goes over like 4th group prob
but its a weird fight
primal fossil
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
daring imp
i love mother i put everyone to go in first and just pretend i'm paying attention to the groups going over
daring imp
lul
civic palm
l o l
lone junco
those were hate garrotes.
civic palm
ExsanguiFUCK
hollow stone
Happens to the best of us. And worst of us in @lone junco's case ooooohhhh. Got em
lone junco
ayy
had a good log in antorus.
g m r vend mut mut vanish . . . ENV? Exang.
FUUUUUU
hollow stone
Haha
lone junco
I had played tb on argus , and had zoned out for a reset on first boss. and my tb fingers fucked me up
thats why i could never play sub dfa at a high level in raid. mess up the cds and just /camp
hollow stone
You played exsang in antorus? Damn son
hollow stone
Fair nuff
urban storm
i miss the days of 220%+ unbuffed mastery
hollow stone
I unfortunately only caught the end of antorus 😦
lone junco
i never saw it that high. my mastery capped at 180. so i played ep with high crit.
hollow stone
Seemed like it would have been a fun raid during progression
lone junco
45 sec vendetta/exang peaks were nice.
hollow stone
Tos just broke me
urban storm
yeah i stayed MP
hollow stone
Yea no kidding. Did you use boots or was the timing still there without?
frosty arrow
hello fellow ass rogues!
gilded kite
Being on a dead server and puggingf broke me
gilded kite
We have 1 legitimate raiding guild on mag. And they've had their core team for almost 10 yrs
dapper wraith
Just curious, what's peoples haste at? I'm only at 15%. Doing my best to swap pieces. My weights have it over agi atm 😂
hollow stone
Thats what dtan was like
hollow stone
18% i think and haste is higher than agi for me too
dapper wraith
I'm 15 haste 24 crit, 362 ilvl
urban storm
still have way too much mastery
hollow stone
Thats not a bad stat line at all
urban storm
i have more mastery rating than crit
strange python
can some one explain to me how Exsanguinate works and why it's good?
urban storm
very good burst
dark token
it speeds up dot ticks by 2
urban storm
because you do your entire bleed worth of dps in half the time, it also boosts energy regen
lone junco
dat troll
daring iron
Exang isn't nearly as strong without SS right?
lone junco
tbh, i would go troll if i had the coins
urban storm
its better if you have SS
hollow stone
Simple numbers to make the point: if your dots do 1000 dmg over 20 sec; exsang makes them do 1000 over 10 sec which doubles your dps from bleeds during exsang. Does that help?
lone junco
I want ss to be better, so thats cool
strange python
yea thanks guys makes sense
lone junco
@strange python baseline, your 18 sec bleed ends in 9 sec. so you can replace it with another 9 sec of bleed.
but min max super juice, means that a 23 sec ss garrote fits over a 10sec /use trinket. instead of just half getting buffed.
and the 20 sec of vendetta can overlap 10 sec of a /use super juice vanish ss exang.
instead of just 20 sec vendetta over a 23 sec garrote.
strange python
Yea okay
lone junco
trinket and proc layering is where it takes off.
urban storm
yeah, very high burst on pull since most htings proc instnatly
strange python
so you can basically fit 2xss into one Vendetta
hollow stone
More like 1.5. But yeah
strange python
okay xD
steep reef
free my boy @nimble tartan he’s too cute for jail
strange python
okay thanks guys i'll try it out
lone junco
it sucks tbh. have fun.
hollow stone
It does not suck. It makes the opener more complex, dont scare the fella
desert vault
what's the command to open the hero damage rotation addon?
scenic raptor
is ss still the trait to take?
lone junco
for m+ it is great. for raid, youll need to sim your options. ilvl matters there.
scenic raptor
yea i just run m+ havent raided yet
hollow stone
Sims are very accurate for st. Rogue players are sim lords
lone junco
yeah 3x ss. g g g ct. is quality content.
hollow stone
Recommendation is to run ss in m+ generally speaking
scenic raptor
aight im at 2x ss right now till trying for that 3rd one
hollow stone
My 340 ss performs better than my 370 archive in m+. Just to give some perspective
kind crater
I feel like I'm messing something up horribly, maybe it's just my stat priorities
but on a target dummy I'm doing 2k less with assassintion than with outlaw
maybe it's just my azerite traits actually? I've got 2x DitB 1x AotT
hollow stone
How are you doing compared to your sims? @kind crater
sweet sedge
can someone share their AOE sim for me? really wanting to compare my stat weights as my haste iss dropping pretty low
arctic isle
i mean if ur gear is made for outlaw ofc that would happen
rose wharf
do you spam ct even if the duration is not expired? for the instant damage
kind crater
@arctic isle I mean it's haste as top stat with crit as a close second, which is good for assassination too
hollow stone
Only on big aoe pulls @rose wharf Idk what a good "breakpoint" is tho, sry
kind crater
@hollow stone I'm simming around 10k and doing 7.5ish on dummies, but that's also without raid buffs, flasks, potions, etc
or weapon enchants (yet)
thick jacinth
then that's why lol
kind crater
Right, but with the same gear (besides weapons obviously) as outlaw I was doing 8.9k on the same dummies
light kestrel
Anyone else have trouble with reading "Ss" as anything other then "sinister strike" ? It just auto fills in my mind every time.
hollow stone
Try simming without buffs. And keep in mind vanish is big dps cd for sin whereas barely anything for outlaw. I would try resetting your meter, setting to all dmg, and using vanish in your testing. I think youd be closer to your sim dmg then
undone cairn
No
kind crater
Hrm, alright
torn coyote
what does haste do exactly for your bleeds and posions and does it effect on your posion bomb ???
thick jacinth
just delete your outlaw spec entirely tbh
lone junco
dont think of it as spamming CT. but refreshing early. once you have ruptures out.
kind crater
I mean I only went outlaw in the first place because every single WQ reward item was a sword or mace for a few weeks
didn't even get two daggers until yesterday
versed mica
@torn coyote it makes bleeds and poisons tick more often. I think this includes PB
lone junco
try poisoning your cat.
undone cairn
:+1:
hollow stone
Not sure if haste effects tick speed of pb but it doesnt really matter if it does or not tbh
spring geyser
hey im spamming garrote on all these targets in m+ it does so much dmg its crazy
i love assassin
lone junco
same 🐛
torn coyote
@versed mica cool so what point haste gona gives u one extra tick ?
thick jacinth
torn coyote
i got 16% haste and its 16 ticks
thick jacinth
O.O
torn coyote
rupt
undone cairn
Good
lone junco
i mean. lots of haste puts them at 1.5 sec apart.
versed mica
I'm not the one to ask, I'm not one who does the maths on this lol
thick jacinth
how do you have 6% haste?
lone junco
trolls
daring imp
16% makes rupture tick 16 times? wth
lone junco
pretty sure with my 75% haste they were still 1.4 sec apart. which btw, is a lot of haste.
non exang.
spring geyser
75% haste?
kind crater
another random noob question, but according to the guide poison bomb is the best for ST and also good for MT
thick jacinth
idk how these questions come about tbh
kind crater
Is there any reason you'd run one of the other options then?
If PB just covers both ST and MT?
lone junco
but the snappy shot of haste does help the number of ticks.
thick jacinth
MT?
thick jacinth
right
torn coyote
back to haste 🤔
thick jacinth
the only fight you don't take PB on is Zek mythic tbh.
lone junco
right. 2. 1.8 ish with a reasonable amount of haste. 1.6 ish with lust.
kind crater
And M+, you'd still advise PB?
thick jacinth
on tyrannical yes
daring imp
you sure 75% is 1.4? @_@"
thick jacinth
fortified no
daring imp
what shitty formula is that
lone junco
@daring imp ill check ,but i was unimpressed.
daring imp
100% should make it 1/s
lone junco
cut it in half to make that 0.65 ish.
daring imp
but if 75 is 1.4 it doesn't
lone junco
hold on, i kept a snipy of that log
torn coyote
the formula is 1.4*24
daring imp
wut
lone junco
whats per what
torn coyote
how many ticks is that
rose wharf
why do we use ct at 2+ targets and not like 3? is the dmg per CP worth it?
sour trout
Sooooo i know in the opener we're supposed to do mut in vendetta.. but does anyone not get bothered by the extra GCD in subterfuge?
daring imp
"extra gcd" in subterfuge? what ody ou mean?
sour trout
Garrote -> reupture - Garrote -> extra GCD -> Vendettta -> Mut -> Rupture
lone junco
daring imp
try to use the 2nd garrote late
torn coyote
17.14 tick
daring imp
so 75 is 1.2
sour trout
hmmm
i c
yeah cause when im smashing keys
i always mut before vendetta
but always scared to garrote that last second because empowered
lone junco
i might have screen shot the stats
daring imp
@sour trout i use a big subterfuge icon WA to check the last few milisecs and cast it
lucid bolt
do u guys use the ravenholdt rotation for no shrouded suffocation with toxic blade?
sour trout
i mut vendetta.. but alot of top rogues are vendetta mut
thick jacinth
literally no reason too, you still have EP from rupture you want to cast a damaging spell
lucid bolt
@tall dove what does that have to do with my question ?
i ran plenty of sims already just checking to see what rotation some people use
lone junco
it is the exact answer to your question. it depends on MA or subterfuge,
thick jacinth
wait MA is good now?
lucid bolt
no it isnt
lone junco
it can be.
thick jacinth
fuck I should stop playing alts.
lone junco
if you use knife
thick jacinth
oh
lone junco
ma tb. with knife
thick jacinth
fuck knife
lone junco
its getting a buff
daring imp
wut m8 sb is great
lone junco
might want to get ready 😃
lucid bolt
i dont like how the talents have 3 options but its obvious which one to pick over the others
daring imp
highest ilvl azerite pieces 
lucid bolt
vectis mythic is stupid
thick jacinth
why would they buff it when it's already the highest simming non raid piece
lone junco
dunno. it was in the notes. with green text.
thick jacinth
and even then
daring iron
that buff already happened I'm pretty sure
thick jacinth
there's actually no reason to ever take it
daring imp
why not
thick jacinth
because archives are better?
lone junco
i mean, if the samage is high enough, ill garrote 4 times in st
thick jacinth
and when will SB be viable in m+
daring imp
if it sims better and you can tunnel shit why the hell not
lone junco
i dont care. just give me dmg.
thick jacinth
why would you not?
hollow stone
only 1 archive sims best...
daring imp
eww
daring iron
because you only need 1 archive.
daring imp
3 archives
hollow stone
your array stacks dont stack
lone junco
i mean, ilvl i guess.
daring iron
I'd say BiS is 1 archive 1 SS 1 DD
daring imp
^
hollow stone
without array stacks, LM and Archive are not great traits
daring iron
unless you don't have a archive
hollow stone
they're not awful
daring imp
1x lm is like pb damage
hollow stone
but they're not great
lone junco
@daring imp sad if true. I want a bigger knife. 200k crits pls.
daring imp
ayy
sour trout
i literally just simeed 1SS and 2DD and it was horrible
daring imp
poisoned knife has evolved to poisoned giantsword
sour trout
so far 2x Archive and 1SS is best simming for me
hollow stone
zzz
hollow stone
you guys aren't listening
lone junco
@hollow stone go on.
hollow stone
archive and LM sims are inaccurate after 1 stack
hollow stone
because the +5 and +10 accounts for the array stacks each time
which doesn't happen in reality
thick jacinth
what do you mean
daring imp
he means having 3x archive isn't 3x the contribution only one gives
hollow stone
right
daring iron
I'd hope so lol
daring imp
well ultimately the ilvl of your azerite piece will make a difference
thick jacinth
like 100% they wouldn't release those sims with that major flaw lmfao
daring imp
340's hardly will be better than a 370
light kestrel
w/ 2x archive you end up at 480 agi @ 20 stacks as opposed to 240. Unless you're talking about array which obviously wouldn't stack.
daring iron
I mean 2x Archive 1 SS is pretty good
hollow stone
if you are looking at trait stacking on bloodmallet, it is represented inaccurately
daring imp
but given same ilvl pieces ... o boy
hollow stone
I'll break it down then
daring iron
It probably is, Archive is a decent simming trait
light kestrel
I'm running 2x array 1x lazer
daring imp
do you guys have other azerite pieces aside from the uldir ones at 370/ 385?
hollow stone
1 stack of archive @ 10 array = 1845 dps. If you run 3, that's 2811 dps. If you run 1 archive @ 10 stacks + 2 SB that's 1845 + 1224 which = 3069. 3069 > 2811
does that make it make sense??
daring imp
^
light kestrel
I have the ones from the WB, I can't think of the name. 370 w/ SoB
daring imp
oh well sob isn't that good for ST simming Ç_Ç
light kestrel
Nah but it's great for M+
daring imp
i agree
daring iron
2x SS 1x SoB sounds pretty great
hollow stone
your highest is completely different from "t22 bis"
thick jacinth
that's all well and good
daring iron
wish I had a juicy SoB piece
thick jacinth
except where did you pull that SB number from
thick jacinth
2 sbs is 1.2k
hollow stone
yeah...
thick jacinth
1224 dps
hollow stone
scoll up
daring imp
how much is 1845 + 1224
thick jacinth
tru my bad I read that wrong.
iron chasm
How does elaborate planning work exactly? Is it "after a finisher your following attacks deal 10% more dmg" or is it "after a finisher everything you do and your active dots deal 10% dmg"?
daring imp
all dmg @iron chasm
daring iron
the latter.
hollow stone
that's what I meant by the stacking is misrepresented because the weight of 1x archive or 1x LM is so much better than any other 1x trait
lone junco
the finisher itself is not buffed. but the dmg after is.
iron chasm
Oh nice thank you :)
daring iron
I get a glad cache this week 😍
lone junco
I had 1trait and FOK talent and pvp trait. In AV at a bottle neck. Was funny.
lone junco
Jumping gives +1
daring imp
lul
lone junco
I did test that one.
lone junco
It's 1 or 2. But it's the difference between the front and back row of the quad dummy's in the temple.
thick jacinth
any raid pieces give SB?
daring imp
i don't think so
daring iron
nay
thick jacinth
omegalul
thick jacinth
did you nut?
daring imp
well at first nah 'cuz ss wasn't nerfed yet lul
daring iron
I got a 385 BitS so I had to swap sub
thick jacinth
isnt SB best for sub now too?
daring iron
meh number wise sure, but it's worse than 1x archive 1x inev 1x bits
daring imp
daring iron
fucks your rotation, clunky to use
daring iron
so many good traits on that lol
thick jacinth
fuck that's a poggers
lone junco
Throw at 29
daring iron
I'd go DD tbh
daring imp
lul
thick jacinth
yeah I'd go DD too
daring imp
they sim really close and sb is way more fun tho, sorry bois
daring iron
DD so close to SB, easier to use
thick jacinth
do you have 2 sbs?
daring imp
yea 2 sb
daring iron
ah well then
daring imp
still have a shitty 340 armor
thick jacinth
if you replace that
daring imp
well, more like half a dozen
daring imp
yeah once i get the fetid devourer chest maybe next year i'll prob stick to dd
i've spent all my coins
the fucker only gives me ap
😦
lone junco
I'm coining for daggers still.
wicked comet
that jumping gives range on fok has blown my mind
lone junco
Did you test. It?
void pecan
Just spam told dagor
wicked comet
yh
daring imp
what
lone junco
Mega jump. Pew pew
lone junco
I'd enjoy if standing on a box increased melee range tho
lol if you can stab from farther by jumping.
Sin Acro
daring imp
inb4 jump height jc gems
daring imp
blizz coding at its finest
hollow stone
that's why they removed tauren rogue
lone junco
Jokes.
daring imp
i wish so much for tauren rogues one day
lone junco
@wicked comet totally thought I was full of shit.
hollow stone
they existed once upon a time
daring imp
i hate having to keep using gamon all the time
wicked comet
yh i did LOL
hollow stone
gotta get mr. smite for when gamon is on cd
also need kovork kostume from arathi for ogre rogue
ogre rogue bis rogue
civic palm
The jumping "adding range" makes complete sense, it's just a function of circles > _>
hardy cave
What is your opener in Zul? What do you guys do in each add in the opener?
calm grail
Garrote the big add then continue normally on Zul.
hollow stone
and what talents/traits?
civic palm
If having a taller character raises the height of the plane used to range find then yes, being taller is "more range".
strange python
so um, my highest dps sim is with subterfuge/exsang, but without my SS pieces equipped? should I trust? what even is the exsang opener without SS?
hollow stone
that's bizarre but yeah, I'd trust it
civic palm
Seems fine, SIN BFA GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ <-- SIN GUIDE HERE
Can see it here as well, just imagine the bubble around your character and when you jump it goes with you, hitting the "core" of the target; https://gfycat.com/IlliterateHauntingArrowana
civic palm
mmm
daring imp
ayyy
strange python
for some reason the sin guide on ravenholdt is down
civic palm
Down for me as well.
hardy cave
@calm grail @hollow stone I normally do garrote on zul and big add, then shikirens if >4 adds and unitarget focus, always maintain the garrote and rapture on both zul and add. It is ok right?
strange python
obv cant use g r g V mut R exsang without SS >.>
zenith cedar
You can do better on Zul than just single garroting the Crusher
Legit just garrote everything that will live a full duration garrote
The hexer typically lives 15-20 seconds and is a prime candidate
hollow stone
@hardy cave We need more info. Are you running 1 or more SS traits? Is your group doing the zerg strat? Is this LFR, normal, hc, or mythic? What stealth talent are you running? Are you cheesing with CT?
zenith cedar
I double garrote the crusher, garrote the hexer, vanish and get on zul
lone junco
Btw. If anyone finds a cool bug like NSDP. Just send it to me in a dm. I need all the help I can get 👀
sweet sedge
how are people using double envenom?
lone junco
That's a start.
wicked comet
wtf is nsdp
hardy cave
@hollow stone one SS trait, hc, Subterfuge, toxic blade, nd poison bomb
zenith cedar
What are you talking about @sweet sedge
If you’re referring to Pikaboo then it’s just a UI bug
lone junco
I legion. Nightstalker applied to the entire duration of a deadly poison if it was the first dmg from stealth.
sweet sedge
o ok
zenith cedar
He is just using MFD
lone junco
Aka. Knife from stealth had 100% application of a super DP bug.
zenith cedar
And the addon he uses to show action feed doesn’t show the order of buttons properly
hollow stone
kk, for hc, your opener sounds good w/ that build. Like you said, you want to get a SS emp garr on Zul and the Crusher. Usually the Hexer dies prior to the full garr duration and tabbing can be a dps loss if it fucks up. So ideally, maintain emp garr on Zul and Crusher as best you can, maintain rupt on Zul and Crusher, and then just ST rotation into Zul @hardy cave
calm grail
I remember the NSDP bug.
Glorious.
Also the PK stuff. Glad I didnt murder my relics for that temporary fad.
Also, yeah what apple juice said. Usually everything but the crusher and the boss dies quickly so it seems like a waste.
Just do meaningful damage on the shit that's gonna live.
calm grail
I took a 900dps loss for G'huun swapping in double SS and exsanguinate, but it felt really good during the second beam.
Anyone else doing that?
civic palm
Considering that's the important part, do what is best to kill the boss.
civic palm
GG strats will be using MFD for Goon > _>"
calm grail
Setup 1 (the boring buold)
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fpjK4GnhiQaxQo3EJ5finV
Setup 2 (the fun build)
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vsSAR6gD6utQHaCSmfsiJ9
TB gear VS exsang gear.
civic palm
Hey look here... we're in #assassination >_>"
hollow stone
oh, I'll be playing sin on m goon, but I'm also not a top world rogue pushing for world firsts
dayum, nice 385 gore chest
hollow stone
yeah with gear that close, I'd def run 2x ss on goon
calm grail
I feel like the first one is good for bosses with no important transitions really.
Or vuln phases
But it's so boring
calm grail
So really the first build is good for maybe.. Taloc, Vectis and idk what else.
hollow stone
depending on your spot in mother, it could be better there too
if you're a boss sitter
hollow stone
I know but I don't think it would outweigh; maybe it would tho
calm grail
Yeah idk. Lotta variables.
hollow stone
yeah, it's probably better for that ss exsang on those buff bosses, like you're saying
calm grail
Still end up using triple SS for dungeons. I drop the helm for a 340.
Still does better in m+
calm grail
Now of RNGjesus loved me 3 weeks in a row with an azerite piece.
If*
But not another damn chest.
crisp storm
Should I always be aiming to get a 31 sec rupture for exsang? or is a standard 5 point enough
calm grail
Opener max for sure. Not sure about the interim ones.
hollow stone
you want to pandemic both dots prior to exsang on every exsang
calm grail
I just think he want to make it as big without as much CP waste as possible.
If I mutilated four cps and was at 7 seconds left on rupture
I'd do it then I guess.
hollow stone
yeah, still getting a pand-rupt, just not a 5cp pand-rupt
which is obviously ideal, but not always gonna line up
calm grail
I don't know if that is mathematically beneficial but I assume putting it off is worse.
hollow stone
I mean, if using gcb, you want your 2nd exsang to line up with the trinket cd anyway
so you can plan it out a bit better
calm grail
I feel like a noobydooby. Was sitting on a 370 glad medallion for like a week thinking it was garbage.
hollow stone
vers w agi on use one?
calm grail
Was a .6 gain in like every situation lol
hollow stone
not actual bis, but really good 😛
lone junco
Agi on use aligning with exang?
calm grail
Vers on use
lone junco
That's gonna be good if you sandwich it up.
hollow stone
no
calm grail
Agi base
lone junco
Still.
hollow stone
ah, dread aspirant isn't as good as the other one
but it's still real nice during vend window
calm grail
It's like having a 20 second ep on top of EP
hollow stone
makes you vend + trinket like 40% dmg
to be fair, I thought it was a trash trinket too
I saw vers and went "nope"
calm grail
I have my setup saved at home but I can't remember what I use for Mythic plus vs. Raid for trinkets. I think 355 Harlan's and glad for m+ and Glad/Fathoms for raid.
lone junco
If you press glad. Does it put GC on 30sec cd?
calm grail
Don't have GC so not sure.
If I had GC id probably use Fathoms with it.
Especially if that interaction occurred.
hollow stone
you cant use both at the same time, I think the cd is based on the duration of the trinket's on use buff tho
calm grail
Wait though...
If you play it right couldn't you have a trinket for every exsanguinate?
peak saffron
so 3 ss over everything despite ilvl for m+? like I have 1 355 ss, 2 340 ss. or should I use 1 of my 355 archives in place of 1 of the 340s?
calm grail
Nevermind, I forgot that GC is 1 minute.
lone junco
At least the first 3
calm grail
Archive for raid.
hollow stone
if running exsang and gc you should wait for gc to exsang
calm grail
With 2 ss
wicked comet
depends on fight length for holding exsang i reckon
lone junco
Apl has full sync of GC. Until 2:20. Then it falls apart.
wicked comet
hm
lone junco
But since we have a few patchwerk with vuln. That probably doesn't apply.
They purposely desync the apl.
strange python
what is "vuln"?
calm grail
Just the generic term for something that occurs quite often this raid.
strange python
a i c
lone junco
Aka. You sure wish you had aligned buffs at vanish on mother.
calm grail
Fetid enrage. mother third room. G'huun getting gbeamed.
Taloc has no Vuln but assuming you are not using Vendetta on the elevator (you probably shouldn't) it will force itself to line back up.
Probably vectis too maybe.
raw coral
How is 3x SS for m+ after the nerf? Better to go for other traits?
raw coral
Ok, ty
vapid delta
Hey guys I'm learning Sin only have 1 SS body and 2 uldir pieces, whats the current talent setup for only 1 SS?
for M+/Raid
sweet sedge
can anyone share how they sim themselves for M+ for stat weights? im afraid im doing it wrong and going for the wront ones
wrong+
sweet sedge
well im just wanting to be doubly sure cause my haste is down to 9% now and it just feels really slow
primal sigil
fathom wasp
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
daring imp
@sweet sedge on m+ your energy regen comes from multiple bleeds on many targets
yeah sucks for bosses but well ... most of the time on the dungeon is arguably spent killing trash packs
twilit axle
Is there a way to sim racials with raidbots?
trying to find out if switching to troll is worth it now that i have galeccaller's boon
sweet sedge
@daring imp should i be using vanish on trash packs to get garrote out more than 3 times?
inner pulsar
@twilit axle Considering the dps delta between best and "worst" race is less than 200, it probably isn't "worth" it
void pecan
Depends how many mobs and how long they live.
twilit axle
i didnt know if the trinket amplified that difference
inner pulsar
@twilit axle That being said, yes you can
daring imp
@sweet sedge well if the pack is that big or really hard to kill, sure refresh garrote on them when it runs out
inner pulsar
So in your simc addon data that you paste in, the 3rd line is race, just set it equal to "troll" and see what it does to your sim dps
twilit axle
thanks
inner pulsar
Welcome
sonic spindle
Do you still open garrote, then mut when using master assassin instead of subterfuge?
warm cove
@twilit axle you can just chance the race in simc input before you sim, ”race=pandaren” for example
lone junco
Pretty sure seli is like 5% haste 30crit for m+.
Gotta get that crit. 😦
@sonic spindle run a sim and check the HTML output. Read the apl sample sequence.
It changes with traits and talents.
sonic spindle
Can I see that with a quick sim?
inner pulsar
Aye@sonic spindle You garrote > Mut > Rupture > Vend > Mut > TB > Vanish > Env > Mut > Env
daring imp
how the fuck do you get to 30% crit
next summit
can you track buffed garrote's with spellid or with weak auras in any way?
sonic spindle
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
sonic spindle
I use mizerok's
next summit
❤
pliant orbit
Guys galecallers boon finally dropped for me
could you tell me how do i use it
i mean do i pair it with specific skill or what? :p
frigid sleet
on CD
unkempt ledge
do you guys run crimson tempest for m+?
daring imp
yes
glacial steppe
CT is such a pain paired with scent
glacial steppe
generally i feel like the energy reg is kinda random in aoe
maybe im just unlucky with FoK
🤷♂️
usually takes me 3 FoKs for 4+ cp
cosmic kindle
whats your crit?
cosmic kindle
just unlucky af then
cosmic kindle
gotta make friends as a dps only class
versed mica
Guys, master assassin is simming higher for me now. What is my opener going to be like now?
Since it only lasts for only 3 seconds, should I be opening with a mutilate?
When I use vanish, should I break stealth with mutilate?
I did check the pins bruh, I don't see anything on master assassin there
strange python
with ct in m+ do you open with ct then rup? and is it better to run exsang with it or tb
versed mica
But I'm not using subterfuge. I'm using master assassin
frigid sleet
enhance me using the word without
versed mica
oh shit, I totally misread mb
cosmic kindle
@frigid sleet desynced lucklss?
frigid sleet
yes
cosmic kindle
my man
frigid sleet
you are ?
cosmic kindle
atkinon
frigid sleet
ho
teal kettle
+10 temple sin or outlaw
cosmic kindle
sin all day brother
cosmic kindle
i prefer bomb but i've probs just not played ct enough
versed mica
So even with master assassin you open with garrote? Doesn't make much sense to me but idek
It also doesn't specify when to use vanish. Should I use it before TB to get TB crit + envenom crit?
frigid sleet
should be prolly somehing like ; garrote-mut-rupt-vendetta-mut-vanish-tb-enve etc
pastel wasp
versed mica
But then you'd be missing out on the possible crit for TB
lone junco
@pastel wasp run a sim and read the html output apl sample sequence.
with ma, it depends on SS or not. and knife or not.
versed mica
3 sec
mint cairn
@lone junco Where do you find this apl sequence? I use raidbots and cant find it after I sim. New to this simming game.