In that case you should go for what you like.
#assassination
honest needle
ya
civic palm
Again, SIM in LightMovement.
honest needle
just resimmed ( Pawn: v1: "Peakahboo - Assassination (Raidbots)": Class=Rogue, Spec=Assassination, Agility=1.93, CritRating=1.89, HasteRating=1.82, MasteryRating=1.77, Versatility=1.70, Dps=9.74, OffHandDps=1.11 )
honest needle
im so happy i got the 370 dagger i needed it bad
honest needle
i got it from warfront
vivid bone
honest needle
😄
civic palm
hawt
honest needle
so raid bots is contradicting it self at first it says my 340 offhand with socket is better but pawn says my 355 mastery vers dagger is better
slender pewter
Why won't my damn raider io score update? :/
whole mason
It could be pawn's problem
strange python
guys, why open with garrot rupt garrot instead of garro, mult rupt ? for a fast 5 points rultpure D:
proven ice
With what traits?
whole mason
for a longer enhanced garrot
strange python
omg, totally forgot abou that LOL
civic palm
1.) If you are using Shrouded Suffocation you want AS LONG as an empowered Garrote as possible at the beginning of the fight.
2.) Rupture damage does not scale with more CP like it used to so you are not missing DMG.
strange python
thx for that ❤
totally forgout about refreshing with early to get it longer duration plus elaborateed planning lol
opaque junco
ep op
honest needle
so ya raid bots said the 340 dagger was better with a socket , and now pawn is saying the 355 is 9 percent better https://gyazo.com/5557bdc04a528b5ea9f80cfaba10263f
opaque junco
Do u have the right pawn string tho?
lofty coyote
have a bad question? is rupture nature dmg? i ask this because i want to play with toxic blade....when i use TB, i have to polle like 100 energy before?
opaque junco
Bleed
strange python
@honest needle the weapon upgrade will be better
civic palm
Gems are worth more than 15 item levels.
strange python
No they are not
opaque junco
Bleeds are physical
honest needle
@strange python even tho offhand dps is my lowest stat weight ?
strange python
Really?
opaque junco
Depends on item slot and stat difference
civic palm
Do you have a screenshot showing the base values on the tool tips?
strange python
It has always been my 2nd highest staf by a big margin
civic palm
So we can see the weighting value with/without the gem.
opaque junco
My cloak upgrade was 20 ilvl upgrade but lost socket so I only gained 5 dps 
civic palm
Same stats though? > _>
honest needle
honest needle
so whats bestt my 340 dagger with haste vers with socket or a 355 with mastery vers for offhand
civic palm
SIM it 😛
opaque junco
He has
civic palm
uhhuh
atomic hamlet
Garrote -> Rup -> Garrote without SS should be still stronger, if you are running subterfuge. At least if my math is correct, but my dummy tests can confirm
honest needle
like i said raidbots said 340 is better but pawn string says 355 is better
civic palm
uhhuh
opaque junco
Same
civic palm
The APL and the results from said APL does not show that to be the truth @atomic hamlet though it might be.
gray shuttle
2 DD and 1 LM?
vivid bone
by not putting in the right stats
atomic hamlet
i will extend my testing, thats my result after math and some dummy tests
civic palm
Your dummy tests don't account for much unless you also Log the testing cycle and submit that as well.
atomic hamlet
👍
nova gazelle
Even with the right stat weights pawn still fuck up sometimes
civic palm
It's more-than-likely people not taking into account the socket weights or looking at the base values of the items and not the difference between the two.
The stats are still the stats there's no real way to fuck that up.
civic palm
Yeah things look weight/do not work if you mess up the import.
vivid bone
look weird*
civic palm
Yeah that word.
strange python
guys doest it matter if i use exsanguine on a 3 poinst rup or a 5 points rupt?
civic palm
Some electrical engineer is relieving himself in my ear.
5CP rupture is longer.
You want as close to max Duration Bleeds on the target before you EX.
gray shuttle
laser matrix is fkin up my dummy damage
strange python
<33
civic palm
as EX snapshots your current Stats and Bleed Durations before applying the +100% tick speed to your current target.
vivid bone
instead of dummy damage, you can just change some settings in raidbots Erdembat?
unless you're practicing the rotation, but then again accurate damage shouldn't be really the main focus here
civic palm
Full Garrote, Rupture over like... 24 seconds.
strange python
awesome thx man ❤
civic palm
sick monolith
boys gutripper or unstable flames?
civic palm
How what?
How is DD better than something else? How do you bookmark a website? How do you check the pins?
dim sentinel
check pins
dim sentinel
TY 😃
gloomy jasper
Is Pandemic still a thing? If so how does it work with Exang, are we refreshing early or waiting for them to tick out
gray shuttle
you wait for ur exsanguinated dots i think
civic palm
1.) Pandemic is still a thing, and very important.
2.) Any Empowered DoT (from Subterfuge or Shrouded Suffocation) should fall off entirely as they do not refresh the Empowerment just the duration.
gloomy jasper
Awesome, ta
civic palm
OH does 50% less DMG and procs nothing in regards to its DMG.
strange python
anyone notice when you break stealth with pvp trinket you dont get subterfuge bonus? D:
@honest needle it is for me as well
Also the reason pawn and simcraft my change results is due to deminishing returns
Sim the two and use the best sim setup
As changing the gear my increase or descrease stats pushing the other ahead or below. It happens sometimes when min maxing
honest needle
i kinda wanna use the 355 instead of the 340 lol but 340 has a socket
strange python
@honest needle what is the dps difference?
U can delay all exanguinate by a maximum of 15sec for scaling with trinket and maximize your output by a strong setup on your rup and garrot
ornate gazelle
Should Exsanguinate be held for 15 seconds to combine with Galecaller's?
strange python
100%
raw torrent
ive got a noob question
optimal way to open on 3 targets with subterfuge and an ss trait?
soft finch
anyone else getting 'Something bad happened and Seri didn't write code to handle it' on raidbots/
raw torrent
not sure if garrote rupture garrote (target 2) is best. Garrote, garrote (target 2) rupture. or just 3 garrotes
sturdy flume
3x garrote
strange python
Cause u have to delay your second exanguinate for vendetta gallecaller vanish combo so you can delay your first one !
raw torrent
fatty 80% bonus
strange python
Depend of your initial Combopoint but garrot ruptu garrot its better if you can exanguinate For pandemic and maximize your garrot and rupture
raw torrent
yeah single target i go g r g
three targets im thinking just landing a garrote on all 3 in the window would be better
formal ermine
If i use toxic blade i should use only envenom in duration?
west frost
Yeah, try and have a decent length rupture up
strange python
You dont loose one first at pull then 1min next one at 2 min you loose 30sec of exanguinate for a 45sec cooldown ! I prefer do that and bot delay all my cd for my exanguinate
warm parcel
You can prefer dps loss all you want
west frost
That's assuming a 2 minute fight
warm parcel
But you dont tell people its better
west frost
Anything past that and you're losing your 4th exsang
honest needle
whats better shrouded mantle or impasage visage for 3rd trait
west frost
Better in what sense? They're defensive so it depends what you're doing
west frost
They're incredibly minor
Also @strange python you're delaying at 2 min even further if you're lining up with vanish
civic palm
Fixed Empowerments are done and uploaded -
wise whale
if you want to sim m+ what do you choose in simc: patchwork, hectiv cleave, light movement and so on?
in that category
west frost
Oh shit I need that mizerok
civic palm
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
west frost
Mama mia, will jam when I get home
civic palm
The text is annoying to move as they are attached to icons, so use the X/Y sliders to position.
👌
Do note that the coding/WA is still kinda weight so they might be sticky when moving targets (good for knowing not to 4th Garrote maybe, who knows).
edgy latch
Is it possible to just grab the EMP part of the WA and apply it to your own?
odd sinew
guys sorry for the question but let me see if i understand the SS bug... i cant cast garrote after de sub buff runs off thats right? so i cast 3 then no more till they run off?
forest edge
yep - 3 is max
even if its off cd
well you can cast another when 1 if off - as far as i've seen
forest edge
Anyone know if - with the removal of SS - the opener and spec? idont see a reason to go Subtefuge when Garrote does less damage, maybe run Nightstalker and use Rupture with it?
high siren
hey guys, so how does sin perform in raid vs sub postnerf ?
vagrant tide
sin is amazing imo
edgy latch
sim yoself
tough whale
competitive
vagrant tide
im doing like 14k
edgy latch
im simming higher with sin because of my traits personally
high siren
can you paste your sim result @tough whale ?
vagrant tide
^
tough whale
lemme log over
pseudo oasis
are u still using 3 SS?
tough whale
1ss 1dd 1 archive
vagrant tide
ss is trash now
tough whale
not exactly true.
edgy latch
1dd, 1archive 1blightborne
vagrant tide
no its true
tough whale
No, it's really not.
edgy latch
feels really bad to have lost the burst opener with ss
keen spruce
regal snow
Ss is decent
vagrant tide
dont be dumb
keen spruce
tough whale
Whos mans is this
keen spruce
pIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNSsssssssssss
upbeat raven
get this walshy clown outta here
upbeat raven
damn i better listen to the bar
keen spruce
tough whale
Damn i better not sim myself and read a static graph
Would suck if i had to use my brain
tough whale
Also yes SS may not be the best trait, but a 370 SS beats a 340 of anything. See how the sim your self kinda comes together there?
west gate
You only want 1 lazer right ?
vagrant tide
@tough whale I simmed it dummy it is the worse
vagrant tide
rofl we are comparing 370 to 370
vagrant tide
Why would i compare a 370 to 340
regal snow
Check brainlets stack achive bc rank 1
vagrant tide
thaats dumb
tough whale
"We are comparing 370 to 370"
vagrant tide
Trait vs trait
vagrant tide
its trash
edgy latch
what the fuck is this discussion
keen spruce
it's middle of the road
tough whale
no obviously this sim sheet has it at the bottom so its useless in every scenario
Its behind by 40 dps so if you use it ur dum
keen spruce
Bloodmallet lists it almost right in the middle, if you're only comparing ONE stack of SS against ONE stack of another trait, without factoring any other traits you're using, in a patchwerk fight with 0 adds
fathom echo
its better if it sims lower? 🤔
shrewd tinsel
40dps 🤔
keen spruce
then it's kind of middle of the road 
civic palm
Hey what are we yapping about in here now?
edgy latch
bloodmallet instead of using sim 
tough whale
Some dummy going "ss is trash why are you using a 370 ss chest" like i can just randomly target better traits
cedar kelp
at the end of the day, in our current situation, having multiple sets of gear is only way to be efficient at all content
civic palm
THE BOTTOM
sick monolith
it is what it is
vagrant tide
@civic palm LOL thanks bby
civic palm
ROCK BOTTOM
keen spruce
he's making fun of you 
keen spruce
ahhhhhhhhh
tough whale
Imagine not realizing when youre getting trolled
keen spruce
sick monolith
lol @ SB topping the charts
keen spruce
double dose garbage
civic palm
SB is also kinda potato due to having to hit things = \
keen spruce
last place trait
tough whale
double dose sucks shame i have it on my 385 helm
civic palm
If you can honestly hit the target with 100% uptime maybe Sharpened Blades is good.
cedar kelp
ree
civic palm
You also need 3xSB which isn't happening.
tough whale
15,807 
civic palm
👏
tough whale
its blp cause blizzard = smart
i have a high vers low haste 380 ring im still unfortunatley using
edgy latch
wtb dat blp though
tough whale
glgl
edgy latch
ty bruh
tough whale
im ready to push 3s cause no other way im getting new daggers lmao
tough whale
370/365, got mythic ring and pants of mother
edgy latch
i think we got 5 or 6 rings on our kill yesterday
proven ice
Mother pants/ring club here.
edgy latch
im just in the ring club
tough whale
scrapped the ring cause heroic w/ socket 
proven ice
my pants went to 390 and they're bis so i can't complain. But still cooking my bonus rolls for that dagger.
arctic vine
!guide
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination Guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
jaunty arrow
Dagger what is it? Still have 340 🤔
edgy latch
how many m+ have you done raizen?
proven ice
380+370 both from pv
jaunty arrow
Like 50 😂
proven ice
pvp
jaunty arrow
4 coins Mother + zul
Never lucky
But i got 395 boots and hands from m+ so its ok i guess 🤔
Also i have cool back colection 
edgy latch
i want to hit 15k club
pastel marten
Hey guys, what would be best, 2x shrouded suff. 1x shrouded and 1x archive or 2x archive?
tough whale
archive/dd/ss
edgy latch
rolled mythrax and ghuun to get matrix
jaunty arrow
U can get dd until u have lucky box
tough whale
Thats what happened 😛
jaunty arrow
+ss i guess
strange python
No
tough whale
I had matrix and archive, and then the DD helm outsimmed it
tough whale
everyone is at 3 if youve played
edgy latch
well, yea
tough whale
reorig doesnt stack mdude
edgy latch
ill see myself out
tough whale
LOL
edgy latch
wasted my rolls btw
jaunty arrow
But still Matrix is decent coz ilvl
edgy latch
i got a ring on my mythrax roll
tough whale
You want at least 1 reorig array proccing trait
edgy latch
that couldve been a mother dagger
tough whale
couldve been another ring
jaunty arrow
Lord of rings
tough whale
I have the mythic one in bags just to boost ilevel
strange python
1 Uldir trait, TTK and 1 DD. Laser is dog shit on anything past 1 target
jaunty arrow
Ttk?
tough whale
twist the knife
jaunty arrow
Welp still ilvl
tough whale
Ilevel > most traits right now tbf
just sim it out
But one reorig trait is VERY strong
willow pulsar
Guys, i have switched for toxic blade build. What is the proper way of using it?
tough whale
pins
jaunty arrow
Just spam it like there is no tomorow
hard plaza
fuck uldir
jaunty arrow
Fuck u elmo
jaunty arrow
Cookie monster is better
willow pulsar
Should i refresh dots before it so i can spam envenom during 10s window?
tough whale
thats pac man
hard plaza
haa
jaunty arrow
Ha haaa
forest edge
wouldnt it make sence to run 1 SS to jsut use the 2 combo points it give?
jaunty arrow
One dager ha two dagers ha
tough whale
its +2 combo points every 2 mins
edgy latch
it would make sense to sim yourself
jaunty arrow
Actualy still ilvl
forest edge
ye i fukkin know that
jaunty arrow
370 w/e trait
tough whale
So not really, the 2 cp barely does anything in the long run
jaunty arrow
Ss its just cool bonus
tough whale
SS is still mythic+ go to as well
forest edge
ye im just running 1 of em - mostly becuase of my other shitty Azerite gear
hazy forge
if your rupture/garrote are about to run out, but your 9 second toxic blade window is also running out, which takes priority? ive noticed i very rarely get to envenom twice during that window because i have to refresh bleeds
jaunty arrow
Bleeds are alpha omega
cobalt bobcat
got a 390 cannonball from the chest and it sims a little bit higher than fathoms...but in "real world" fathom should still outperform it considering how unreliable the cannon can be, right? (in ST) https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ukfNSB461G7CvUG1wu7xnQ
tough whale
Bleeds are the sauce to your meatballs dude
@cobalt bobcat Keep em both and use cannon for more stationary bosses
Think about how mobile bosses are / how often you guys sit vs move
forest edge
or big ass pulls in mythic +
kind stump
Cannon sucks for aoe
tough whale
it does the same in AoE as it does in ST
hazy forge
how do people use two envenoms in one toxic blade window while refreshing bleeds?
forest edge
pooling energy
hazy forge
i prioritize bleeds and almost never get 2 off
forest edge
or refresh bleeds and then toxicblade into pooling
jaunty arrow
Energi management
hazy forge
how do u pool when u need to use it to refresh bleeds?
forest edge
you just gotta hold on to THe Toxic blade for like 5sec
tough whale
because refreshing bleeds restores energy lol
forest edge
and thne ram that envenom cock into them
hazy forge
i thought ur suppoed to use toxic blade on cooldown
forest edge
well ye - but not if its inconvinent
jaunty arrow
U are
tough whale
Youre putting alot of hyperfocus on TB
jaunty arrow
But sometimes is worth wait
tough whale
You will play 100% fine if you just wanna fkin press it and afk
devout jolt
you can hold tb for a couple of seconds to refresh your bleeds first
jaunty arrow
cobalt bobcat
@tough whale yeah that's what I was thinking too, also that agi boost from the high ilvl helps mitigate the "randomness" of the cannon
civic palm
Refresh bleeds early.
tough whale
Yeah, just try it out on fights and worst comes to worst you fathom high movement bosses
long portal
Use both imo. Cannons AND anchors!
atomic grotto
run around using pk
cobalt bobcat
yea, but not gonna replace galecallers 😄
atomic grotto
stay range press galecallers and drums throw daggers
tough whale
if you ask some fkin pin ass question
severe harbor
shrouded suffocation
atomic grotto
like a machine gun
severe harbor
big damage nerfs
tough whale
p i n s
severe harbor
not good to stack 3x of them
tough whale
s i m s
severe harbor
mate I got
atomic grotto
it depends on what pieces u have
hazy forge
i just started playing assassination today, i sim higher than outlaw for ST but my parse is wayyyy lower lol, need to fix what im doing wrong
severe harbor
just asking if it's still mandatory
tough whale
no
severe harbor
to have at least 1
atomic grotto
no its not
severe harbor
ok thank you
long portal
It's no mandatory, no. Though, in m+ ss still does work imo.
tough whale
SS is best trait in m+
atomic grotto
or thats what i understood from simming a lot of stuff
tough whale
but if you simmed you would know the answer
atomic grotto
the rupture agi trait is better on m+ i think
tough whale
rupture agi is shit
long portal
Its mandatory for everyone in a class discord to tell you to sim yourself. It's in the pins ;)
severe harbor
was asking so I can better understand what my goals should be for BiS
hazy forge
so generally speaking, how often are you guys getting envenom 2x in one TB window? like every time? or half the time?
severe harbor
I usually get one maybe 2
tough whale
Unfortunatley, and i know this sounds shady, but never aim for BiS. Cause blizzard is just gonna fuck you over again with trait changes
Just get azerite and hoard it
severe harbor
I'm well aware
tough whale
Other than that if you get an upgrade just sim it out and move on
silk carbon
if you have 4 cp 100+ energy and toxic blade just comes off cd
hazy forge
traits arent must have anymore
silk carbon
you can fit 3
tough whale
ss trait wasnt a massive nerf wtf
severe harbor
tough whale
2/3 peices were from uldir
hazy forge
when deadshot was outlaw bis i had 0 deadshot lol, im glad they changed it
severe harbor
lad I'm aware
atomic grotto
i still cant decide what spec to play aftert he nerfs
silk carbon
i swapped from outlaw to assa because of nerfs and then assa got hit again anyway
severe harbor
just saying blizzard did me dirty on that one
tough whale
Blizzard has done everyone dirty on azerite nerfs
severe harbor
unless they seriously revert sub pvp nerfs
severe harbor
might be rerolling next tier
tough whale
lmao
long portal
Disc lol? Why
hazy forge
what are some common assassination mistakes for noobs
tough whale
not reading the guide
sick monolith
4th garrote
severe harbor
not keeping rupture and garrote up
atomic grotto
using tb without energy ?
tough whale
even if you tb without energy youll be fking 100% a - o - k
It wont be a massive dps difference to min max that
its a massive dps difference to fuck your garrote
civic palm
COMMON ASSASSINATION MISTAKES THAT NOOBS MAKE
1.) Not reading the guide located at the top of this page.
2.) Not checking the pins.
severe harbor
wym fuck your garrote
frigid swallow
what traits do you feel like work best in pvp?
tough whale
Easily obtainable high ilevel azerite peice
atomic grotto
ss
frigid swallow
i like to have atleast 1 ss for the 3 cp on the opener
severe harbor
of this big
tough whale
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
tough whale
Enjoy
tough whale
? not really
severe harbor
does that fuck us or help us
atomic grotto
well i still dont like using tb without energy, its the antorus aftereffects
severe harbor
I can't even tell
tough whale
SS affects garrotes from stealth
tough whale
chill with the attitude lmao
tough whale
casting an out of stealth garrote when you have stealthed garrotes (ss garrotes)
severe harbor
continue lad
cobalt bobcat
is it worth holding on exsang so it lines up with galecallers (and the 2nd vendetta/vanish)?
severe harbor
ah
tough whale
if you stealth garrote 3 targets and reg garrote a 4th
you lose all buffed garrotes
etc
tough whale
See how thats a big issue
rigid sky
with 7% haste can I get 3 buffed garrotes? what's gcd time? 1.5s?
night vale
Thinking of swapping to Assassination from Subtlety.... Getting so triggered trying to play sub with lag or framerate drops!
I havent play Sin since legion, is the guide on ravenholdt the best thing for me to read?
tough whale
It comes into effect when you have adds spawning during a vanish window / up during buffed garrotes
there are possibilities where you do run into it
severe harbor
@night vale imo the Ravenholdt guides are really shallow compared to the wowhead/icyveins ones but it had good info in it still
tough whale
The ravenholdt guide is barebones but covers more actual information regarding how to correctly open / things to be aware of
night vale
ah right so the wowhead/icy veins ones are good reading after ive read the ravenholdt one then 😄
thanks guys
severe harbor
not sure what I'd reroll to if I stopped playing Rogue I've been a rogue so long
tbh if anything I'd be a monk since
they have the same fucking system
Chi are basically combo points lets be real here who is blizzard fooling
hoary totem
bring back MoP monks
frail widget
I’m playing outlaw atm cause my traits without ss feel like shit
Feels bad man
I just don’t dig sub much
severe harbor
sub is the reason I play rogue
sin and outlaw are braindead
sub burst window planning is really engaging
maximizing ShD charge usage etc
frail widget
Yeah I used to enjoy sub a lot I just played it all of legion
hardy acorn
i especially enjoy hitting like a noodle outside of that window
severe harbor
compare that to assassination which, on ST at least, is just
keep rupture up
keep garrote up
TB off cooldown
jaunty arrow
Sub is same braindead like all specs
severe harbor
vendetta off CD
tough whale
reading the icy veins guide for assas is actually the most painful thing
frail widget
I mean all specs are pretty brain dead but yeah sub has more room to fuck up if that’s what u mean
tough whale
Someone mentioned it earlier and i wanted to fact check it and holy shit
frail widget
I just can’t play sub for another whole expansion
severe harbor
@frail widget yeah but the point of that is that because they have more room to fuck up when you don't fuck up it should be more rewarding but instead assassin just does more damage regardless
frail widget
So enjoying outlaw and sin
jaunty arrow
Its depend on what u like, i am bored waiting for burst windou
void spoke
I hate the fact that sub really does not have any aoe in St build and shd doesn't feel so rewarding now when you basically can have it up all the tine
frail widget
Well there’s always Zul lol
knotty bear
Sub not braindead 🤔
severe harbor
yeah zul is literally the only time I switch to sub
because shuriken tornado sub
even with my full assassination azerite traits
destroys zul
hoary totem
whole game is braindead
jaunty arrow
Press 1-4 to better dps
frail widget
My trait reforge is 80k. Nice mechanic blizzard
tough whale
Why are you reforging that much holy fuck
civic palm
Stop being a weirdo O _O
modern kindle
I just have decent sub traits and bad assa traits honestly, getting a 30 ilvl upgrade with the shadow strike trait and a shitty assa trait sealed the deal for me
jaunty arrow
80k cool
frail widget
I have like 4 pieces of azurite above 355 so I’m pidgeon holed into playing whatever spec the traits on them are best for
tough whale
@modern kindle Which trait?
modern kindle
I also sim more as sub
stark stag
I love you all
civic palm
Then why the rerolling if you are "pigeon-holed"?
frail widget
Let us get fucking azurite from mythic plus you incompetent fucks
civic palm
No.
modern kindle
@tough whale vlade in the shadows for sub, scent of blood for assa
tough whale
f
modern kindle
So blade in the shadows it is
frail widget
What do you mean why are you rerolling? A class is supposed to have multiple specs and you are supposed to be able to play them
modern kindle
Does the origination stack thing work outside of raids?
tough whale
no
jaunty arrow
Nah
modern kindle
Bleh
tough whale
archive does, origionation does not
severe harbor
sub in pvp was so much fun pre nerf you could basically 100-0 someone in a dance window
modern kindle
So blade in the shadows it is
severe harbor
ShD, ss, ss, evis, ss, ss, evis, mfd, evis
modern kindle
Have archive on one of my chests but havent raided yet
severe harbor
would legit kill
frail widget
Sub feels pretty trash in pvp now
frail widget
Like unplayable
jaunty arrow
Meme in the shadows top trait
frail widget
Twist the knife double envenom is fun tho
severe harbor
oof
tough whale
mfd double envenom is a feels good moment
frail widget
Yeah just don’t bother playing sub. Outlaw is better in Rmp even right now
severe harbor
not to mention RNG makes me want to blow my head off
every other outlaw seems to get a
5 roll
all the time
yet I get the worst buffs
frail widget
Honestly in pvp as long as u don’t get treasure chest you’re golden
severe harbor
pretty sure that's the one i get
can't remember them by name though
just what they do
frail widget
Cdr coin is god tier in arena lol
frail widget
Store
spiral cipher
3month sub
long portal
6?
safe sluice
180 days
hardy acorn
180 days is 6 months
spiral cipher
6*
long portal
Doesn't float though..literal garbage
hollow escarp
I still sim better on 1 x TF 2 x SS than any other top combo on bllodmallet/herodamage 😕
severe harbor
and like paypal/credit card
long portal
You can PayPal into blizz balance then buy with blizz balance
frail widget
Sin felt pretty god tier in mythic plus with old ss
naive trellis
@severe harbor outlaw is literally the only rogue spec you need a brain for
severe harbor
@long portal that's clever
@naive trellis you're trolling right
it's the easiest spec
naive trellis
Lol stfu
hollow escarp
^
frail widget
Naw sin is the easiest spec in arena
naive trellis
Sin and sub are braindead
hollow escarp
you just roll the bones 4Head
frail widget
It’s not. Sub is
naive trellis
Compared to sin? The most bland and basic rotation possible
severe harbor
sinister strike, pistol shot when u get a proc, run through at capped CP
hollow escarp
shouldn't outlaw circlejerk discussion happen in a different channel?
long portal
Assa is by far easier in arena lol
hollow escarp
yup, especially in M+ Kappa
leaden niche
outlaw facedesk spec
frail widget
Outlaw is more nuanced than sin in arena and sub has a much higher skullcap than both
hollow escarp
@shadow wedge have fun with the SS bug xD
severe harbor
sub is one of the hardest specs in the entire game, maybe the hardest spec in the game or definitely a contender for it
the fact he's trying to say
outlaw is harder
is just
blissful dove
outlaw harder? You have like twice the toolkit lol
naive trellis
No i stopped playin sin in bfa
spring prawn
He did +2
frail widget
Yeah sub is probably the highest skillcap for dps in arena
edgy latch
A lot of outlaw people have this strange imagination that adapting your rotation to not waste cp's depending on rolls is complex
naive trellis
I have yeah
severe harbor
the only class I can see being higher skill cap is like
naive trellis
Fuck me
naive trellis
Ofc ive played them bro i play sin in arenas
warm parcel
This new pfp and colour
spring prawn
Diszi is hard
warm parcel
Gets me
naive trellis
Dont fuckin @me
edgy latch
@naive trellis
warm parcel
Also swap name and itll be a new person
leaden niche
@open flowerrd
naive trellis
You can ronge np (:
leaden niche
it no work
blissful dove
Ok, what's the latest workaround to actually do damage?
naive trellis
Sub is hard convo over
leaden niche
playing any spec isn't exactly rocket science tho
arctic isle
sub hard OMEGALUL
leaden niche
u hit a button u do a thing
edgy latch
i'd argue that sub is more prone to errors than the other two
spring prawn
Sub is easy
frail widget
Sub actually is hard in arena right now lol
edgy latch
but theres no complex wow psecs anymore
hollow escarp
@edgy latch the unending discussion about best and easiest rogue spec 
leaden niche
sub can get desynced, but its easy
brisk forge
Everybody thinks diff, just leave it at that!
leaden niche
I HAVE AN OPINION AND YOU MUST AGREE TO VALIDATE ME
severe harbor
I wish there was hard specs in wow
long portal
Few people actually 'think' though xD
severe harbor
I played Rogue originally because it was a hard fucking class to play
edgy latch
i miss wod hfc sub
hollow escarp
most people ask the same questions here and in any other rogue twitch stream
severe harbor
hemorrhage on sub back in the day
brisk forge
As long as you can provive good logs then i can trust you when you say every spec is easy 😏
severe harbor
before it was nightblade
silk carbon
cb/prep daggers back in the day
hollow escarp
@brisk forge quoting a guldie "you don't need logs to proove a spec is easy af" xD
frail widget
@severe harbor feral is about as interesting as it gets for melee dps in pve
silk carbon
one shotting people in kidney with a tea
severe harbor
Rogue starting to lose it for me though it's not a hard class anymore and stealth isn't cool anymore with a Demon Hunter in every BG
arctic isle
rogue was never hard in pve
severe harbor
@frail widget I'd definitely consider being a feral but the other 3 specs are boring
silk carbon
vanilla rotation was the hardest one going
severe harbor
why play a class with 3 boring specs and 1 fun one
leaden niche
resto is high apm, i wouldnt class it as fun though
severe harbor
if I was to play healer I'd play something
more engaging than resto
like disc
disc have a fun playstyle of doing damage/healing and trying to min-max between the 2
long portal
Meleewings paladin!
edgy latch
thats the reason i play rogue, i dont hate any of the specs
long portal
Or wotc monk!
edgy latch
i'd hate to play a warrior for example when i hate being fury
you'd have to respec if arms was nerfed/fury buffed
severe harbor
why do you hate fuury
im the legit opposite
fury is the only warrior spec I love
edgy latch
it was just an example, i havent played either since wotlk
warm parcel
Breath is amazing
dusk sun
Sub is hardly consistent and even with the bursts you probably wont end up on the top dmg
severe harbor
Fury is so much fucking fun you have something to do every single GCD and it's hella fast paced
dusk sun
Probably*
leaden niche
frost dk is just a case of no movement during breath to parse
frail widget
Frost dk presses like 20 keys a minute lol
frail widget
Which is just painful
severe harbor
say what you will about frost DK
but one obliterate crit
does more than an entire shadow dance window now
so
warm parcel
Coldheart for 120k
frail widget
Dk was fun in wod
dusk sun
I have not seen a more inaccurate phrase ever
frail widget
Dark sim is the coolest spell in the game bar none
severe harbor
On one hand I want to try ranged DPS since blizzard seems to be favoring them a lot in current raid tiers
but I'm a very
strafe spammy player
casting drives me insane
long portal
Bm hunter
frail widget
Honestly. Try survival hunter
severe harbor
ok let me rephrase
I want to try
a ranged dps class
that presses more than 2 buttons
amber temple
@severe harbor I played spriest last expansion, and there was so much wasted dps due to movement :(
frail widget
Survival can do a everything at ranged on a cooldown
severe harbor
I don't like
DoT classes
which is why sin rogue drives me insane
I just want to see
big fucking numbers
in pvp
and watch someone drop
amber temple
Do sub then? :P
severe harbor
I did
long portal
Ele shaman tbh
knotty cedar
pvp=pretty vucking pointless
amber temple
I think sin is pretty fun in pvp. but I only play for fun
severe harbor
I just see monks rolling around kicking shit for crazy high damage
while I waddle around putting dots on things
tardy narwhal
Do you need 1 SS for sin to be good?
low frost
bullshit
frail widget
I disagree. Nothing is more satisfying than step kidney into cc
severe harbor
the only thing that makes rogue cooler is stealth but they added demon hunters into the game
and stealth is barely a mechanic in group content
halcyon phoenix
shroud for m+
severe harbor
yeah that's why I said barely
arctic isle
would be pretty hard to give stealth a use outside of a cd
severe harbor
shroud is the only time it really comes into play
low frost
if you played monk, you would be equally unhappy.
halcyon phoenix
I can confirm. I played monk in legion
severe harbor
the list of classes
I want to play
is huge
I guess being new to the game does that to you
you want to try everything
but I can't rn since there's like no catch up mechanics LOL
arctic isle
until u level them
severe harbor
so I'll just be super behind
arctic isle
and they are boring
frail widget
Still gonna level my feral. That shit actually stays interesting
severe harbor
Feral Druid is so much fun
but I'm a horde player and don't want to be a troll/tauren
I wanna be a qt belf
no fucking joke that's the only reason I'm a Rogue player
frail widget
Female orc master race here
frail widget
And snapshotting
severe harbor
and a lot more mobility
the fact that Ferals in sprint run faster than people on mounts is insane
inland path
when playing with master assassin do i still vanish garrote or is it vanish envenom/rupture?
frail widget
Snapshotting is a way more interesting mechanic
frail widget
No
severe harbor
like if you rupture in vendetta
inland path
no it doesnt
severe harbor
the entire rupture isn't buffed right?
inland path
yes
frail widget
Right
inland path
even old ones
severe harbor
aight cool
arctic isle
nightstalker snapshots
frail widget
No it doesn’t
arctic isle
yes it does
frail widget
I don’t think you know what that means
frail widget
If u trinket does it also?
No it just is bugged for as long as the trinket is up
Hence no snapshotting
edgy latch
why would you play with nightstalker?
dusk sun
Ye thats a better question
frail widget
It snapshots one thing not your whole stat distribution
inland path
when playing with master assassin do i still vanish garrote or is it vanish envenom/rupture?
frail widget
It’s just a 50 percent better rupture
dusk sun
Whats snapshotting again
severe harbor
ok so on feral druid
dusk sun
I dont reallt follow
severe harbor
if you pop a damage buff
and then rupture
the entire rupture is buffed
its called rip
isnt it
cosmic pier
@inland path I’ve found mut>vanish>tb>envenom the best to do
severe harbor
the entire rip is buffed
cosmic pier
And cast vendetta before that if it’s up
severe harbor
even if the buff falls off
knotty cedar
i thought feral lost all snapshotting except for ferocious bite
or the yellow buff thing
dusk sun
Is it the same thing for vendetta?
severe harbor
no
dusk sun
Ppl usually just rupture then vendetta
knotty cedar
tiger's fury is what i meant
severe harbor
vendetta just multiplies all damage the target receives from you by 30%
fallow sky
Feral still has snapshot mechanics from Bloodtalons and Tigers Fury
high lotus
Tigers fury and bloodtalons snapshot afaik, think that's it though
dusk sun
Seems right
fallow sky
No other class has snapshot mechanics left besides pandemic
knotty cedar
yea bloodtalons too i forgot
arctic isle
nightstalker
high lotus
Yeah
vestal abyss
Everyone has the same colored name in chat rn and its fucking annoying
arctic isle
dude fucking use more than 3 words in your sentences holy shit
dusk sun
Ye but nobody uses ns
high lotus
The moonfire one is a lvl 15 talent, if that's what you mean
severe harbor
@arctic isle no
@high lotus nah i mean the one that like
give su more energy
it's the far left talent in 100 row
vestal abyss
Lmao do you talk the
knotty cedar
correct me if i am wrong but the snapshotting rogue have is only for SS trait with garrote and subtefurge with garrot
high lotus
Ooh, moment
arctic isle
put a thought together before typing
terse viper
it's only decent if you have really shit gear