They act as if there are outside forces that act on the game and changes it beyond their control
#assassination
strange python
modest peak
@agile bane i agree with the sentiment, but it feels like we legit have no viable traits rn
daring imp
"less effort" as in "less people", right?
strange python
Everything in the game they have full control over
They are God
But they act like shit just happens
mellow pier
Were gonna end up using SB
unreal coyote
i just wanna know what trait is fun
strange python
"oh tiers got boring"
cursive hull
@mellow pier So is mythic+, it's just not implemented yet. Neither was anything before it was popularized. I've played since vanilla, and the only way you could tell the progression of someone back then was by looking at their gear.
modest peak
other than that, yeah it was justified, and ill keep playing the game
vestal wren
@glad shuttle you should rather get 340 sub gear then raid with sin traits in sub
strange python
"let's remove them"
gentle belfry
@mellow pier sounds like you just play for fun bud lol
mellow pier
Watch how engaging this rotation is
strange python
Sounds like DK
unreal coyote
hint: fuck no
daring imp
complaining about sb being stupid isn't fair 'cuz SS is also stupid Ç_Ç
vestal wren
m+ is a very compatitive mode, so having it balanced somewhat is reasonable
unreal coyote
sharpened blades is an abomination
strange python
SS was fun though
unreal coyote
someone should be fired for even conceiving that shit
mellow pier
^
strange python
Legit was one of the few traits that were fun
strange python
Maximizing Garrote was interesting
daring imp
^
strange python
And the rotation was clever and counter-intuitive which is fun for me
true ingot
Sharpened Blades is "Hey let's make one of the most boring traits of all time that is completely against the spirit of the spec and then make it the best trait by bastardising everything else"
unreal coyote
i actually disagree
echo geyser
Whats the go to trait for assa now?
mellow pier
I mean exsang hasnt been viable since tov
strange python
So
unreal coyote
no matter what ability it is
mellow pier
Its good and they destroy it
strange python
@vestal wren what are your predictions with the changes?
Maybe they should buff the rest of our abilities
mellow pier
Lol
strange python
And then nerf SS
chrome cave
it kinda is poor design when you look at the end of a fight and see garrote at 45% dmg xD
cursive hull
Though I have to say I'm glad for the nerf. I hate to have blizzard tell me what to play simply because it's slightly overtuned as compared to its counterspecs. I enjoyed Outlaw way more than ass. I might even consider going back.
vestal wren
its very hard to say what will be best, i wait for herodamage to have the update
mellow pier
Sure some pple can do well, but it wasnt the best
vestal wren
sharpened blades look suprisingly good tbh
unreal coyote
@vestal wren the issue is its stupid
mellow pier
U can find a good parse with pple running stupid talents all the time
Doesnt make them good
strange python
They look at herodamage and bloodmallet top traits and nerf based on that
chrome cave
my gripe now is that they nerfed laser matrix too since it gave more dps runnning that +2 SS so I wonder if that's going to change as well
vestal wren
@unreal coyote what issue
daring imp
but if it works is it stupid? lul
strange python
So SB is a dead man walking
strange python
In Antorus TB was better though
unreal coyote
using our ranged attack in melee
cursive hull
exsang is still your go-to in M+
mellow pier
Remind me where rogue cleave in antorus
vestal wren
@strange python they dont need to, just look at the m+ wcl statistic and you see that ss trait needs some change
mellow pier
I forgot
jovial kite
antorus only raid?
unreal coyote
avatar
hexed jasper
the question is is the Sin the way to go in m+ not exsang
unreal coyote
hue
jovial kite
Hello?
vestal wren
i am actually not sure, sub/outlaw might be compatitive to sin again with the change
undone cairn
is new sims updated?
unreal coyote
sub was what
cursive hull
@strange python See this from blizzard's perspective, however they nerf it - one part of the community will be affected more than the other. In the end, it's for the best. SS was overtuned, none's denying that. - Or they simply would've left it alone.
jovial kite
exsang was king in kj and maiden and avatar
mellow pier
@jovial kite just because u, one of the better sin rogues in world played it doesnt mean its the norm man
copper pine
Raidbots doesnt work with the comment : override.spell_data=effect.734512.coefficient=3.007362
jovial kite
we werent talking the norm
teal kindle
but dont degenerate to using poison knife in rotation
unreal coyote
exsang on kj
strange python
@vestal wren if you go off the sims from before changes sub will be top and outlaw/sin will be closer
jovial kite
We were talking about viability
unreal coyote
wut
undone cairn
ty
tight meteor
sub was bis in tos
hushed turtle
Just as i get 2 370 daggers
unreal coyote
if you had a specter and didnt play sub
hushed turtle
boom
unreal coyote
you were special
strange python
@cursive hull maybe they should bring the rest of the class up a bit as well so SS doesn't sting as bad, a bit like how they should've handled Windwalker when they butchered them as well
unreal coyote
period
vestal wren
@strange python sub sims very high bc. of sharpened what is somewhat hard to get
mellow pier
My point is, talent finally comes out ahead
vestal wren
tbh i would not mind blizz nerfing it for sub
mellow pier
Lets kill it
drifting elbow
reprobate, except that sub aoe is somewhat worse than assa garrote simulator in openers at trash packs m+
strange python
@vestal wren lol back to outlaw we all go :p
tight meteor
@vestal wren is sharpened even viable
fierce knoll
dropped from 13.5k to 12.9k feelsbadman
vestal wren
i think outlaw is quite good in m+
jovial kite
In high ilvl profiles
tight meteor
seems so janky
jovial kite
Tb had higher max potential
mellow pier
It prob still is for me
undone cairn
can i not use it in raidbots
unreal coyote
exsang was ahead with enough haste
vestal wren
outlaw provides the most utility in m+
mellow pier
Tbh
strange python
@drifting elbow but sub ss combo is insane st e.g. zul mythic
mellow pier
But still doesnt mean ill be playing the spec lol
undone cairn
says that ovveride.spell_data is an invalid command
worthy carbon
meh getting sharpened blades x3 is unrealistic at 385
undone cairn
🤔
modest peak
hm i just ran sims using the simc overwritte and i had no change in my dps, did i do something wrong or?
drifting elbow
how many is pure ST in m+ 
tight meteor
@undone cairn do it in advanced
mellow pier
Back to outlaw boys it got nerfed the least!!
strange python
I barely see any Subs using SB on high mythic parses
cursive hull
@strange python Windwalker I think have the highest potential sim atm. If played PERFECTLY, they're by far one of the best classes. However, nobody plays their class 100% to perfection, and even if your unhuman skills get to that point, it's all situational. Which is why outlaw might be better than both ass and sub, simply because it's easier to play and has more tools to use no matter the circumstances.
undone cairn
oh
worthy carbon
because they dont exist sure you can get x3 340
vestal wren
@tight meteor the issue with sharpened is that you dont get to much of it in the raid, so you depend on the weekly chest to get high pieces
unreal coyote
thats the issue
strange python
Windwalker is dead @cursive hull
unreal coyote
with the whole thing
strange python
Also Outlaw parses way worse than sub and sin
vestal wren
tbh i hope they let m+ drop azerite
tight meteor
i have 2x sharpened but not sure if i want to farm for 3rd
mellow pier
The system is flawed when u gate traits
vestal wren
this would solve many issues
strange python
They're almost non-existent in the top parses on Mythic kills
tight meteor
isnt it just so bad in aoe
cursive hull
@strange python That is true, but it's still one of the best DPS-classes in game if played right 😃
strange python
or at least heavily outnumbered
mellow pier
@vestal wren they cant without buffing raid azerite
unreal coyote
yeah if they let azerite drop in m+
strange python
unless there is snap cleave
unreal coyote
everything would be fine
outer yacht
doesn't outlaw also scale worse than sub/sin?
strange python
Keep a track of mythic parses the next few days, it will slowly be overtaken completely by sub
vestal wren
@mellow pier isnt array supposed to do that?
strange python
and a small contingent of OL and Sin
mellow pier
@vestal wren not when its nerfed 30% LUL
unreal coyote
as someone who was using 2x SS and 1 laser
strange python
Yeah I think OL scales worse
unreal coyote
im gonna feel it
strange python
iirc Sub scales the best right?
unreal coyote
badly
mellow pier
@unreal coyote i lost 1k with same traits
unreal coyote
jfc
mellow pier
Feelsnerfedman
strange python
I lost ~1.1-1.2K
cursive hull
If you only base your findings on parses, you really don't know how anything works. There might be 1 player playing WW that can pull around 20% more dps than the top BM hunter, but it won't show on parses, because there's only a few that plays the class as compared to BM or even Havoc DH. Statistics 1on1 😃
unreal coyote
i havent simmed yet
mellow pier
Dont do it
unreal coyote
8head in sand*
strange python
Switching to archive on my SS chest feelsbadman
mellow pier
Its last week all over again
vestal wren
to cheer you guys up. if you manage to get 3x snake eyes build you can go all in on the snd meme
unreal coyote
yeah
mellow pier
1.5k nerf with sub changes lol
inland path
i lost 900 dps
inland path
😦
undone cairn
eh
keen inlet
@vestal wren Right? How has that not been nerfed yet...good gravy
mellow pier
I went 15.4k to 14.4k
lean anvil
So you guys getting rid of SS altogether now?
tranquil ermine
APL is updated?
leaden belfry
14.530 to 13.800 LUL
undone cairn
time to sim different setups
tight meteor
actually i have 3x sb lol
undone cairn
LUL
keen inlet
@tranquil ermine check pins
vestal wren
@keen inlet they just need to normalize the mh procs to fix it
glad shuttle
to be fair, most trait should be equivalent in dps, maybe some more oriented aoe, some oriented ST or oriented pvp
wheat zealot
Im using nightly, is it not reflecting nerfs yet?
unreal coyote
i have a 390+sock one i need to use
strange python
@cursive hull you're treading in pure conjecture now, I understand the statistics argument but NOT when WW is completely absent from top parses. It's not just underrepresented, it's fucking gone.
mellow pier
Im 1 more kneejerk nerf away from quitting and just playimg a diff game til xpac is over lol
glad shuttle
if not it's the whole reforge shit all over again
unreal coyote
@mellow pier feelssame
frozen karma
guess you still have another week to play then
unreal coyote
or just rerolling warrior
mellow pier
I dont like direction of game,atm and still play for friends, guild and because ive played so long
unreal coyote
join chadnation
wild zodiac
how about just quit now and not wait
tranquil ermine
@keen inlet I dont see any pins about SimC APL being updated? Wasn't whining or moaning just curious if people are simming for different results post maintenance
frozen karma
next week they nerf all rogue specs by 5% and they buff aff/havoc by 10%
strange python
Chadhold
cursive hull
@strange python Exactly, and they were in Legion for a while too. However one of the best players i know who was in our mythic roster at the time, pulled way more DPS than any other of our members with much lower ilvl. And i'm talking top-level players.
fossil jewel
Hey guys quick question. Why does rogue keep getting nerfed and DH is untouched? It's actually insane
surreal solar
On the upside, Outlaws been left alone since stabbing Deadshot
dark shoal
Heroclass
vestal wren
@tranquil ermine #tc-updates
unreal coyote
5% aura AND stabbing deadshot
wheat zealot
jovial kite
sin is fine
surreal solar
5%s not as bad as shredding SS
grim wolf
assn is still going to be strong
tranquil ermine
@vestal wren thats directly for SS though, the archive / LM changes are not included within that though?
jovial kite
Stop the hyperbole
mellow pier
Stop defending this shit team
cursive hull
@strange python With that in mind, I believe Demo has higher potential than affli, especially for single target patchwerk. And they have by far the lowest parses than any other class.
mellow pier
LUL
lament dove
I swear every time people act like buffs and nerfs are some new thing in wow
tight meteor
seizure inducing
fiery sedge
Wont sub overtake sin on st next week?
wild zodiac
fucking deleted before I could delete it myself 😠
vestal wren
keep that in #off-topic pls
dull spruce
siming higher as sub now tho
frozen karma
my eyes are hurting from that gif
mellow pier
Btw
jovial kite
you could see the nerf coming from uranus
fiery sedge
how are you simming as the hotfix btw
wheat zealot
We were OP what do you expect 🤷
surreal solar
Subs been on top every raid
wild zodiac
Good, I love to provide pain
main rain
It's mostly the philosophy of nerfing good traits and leaving 90% of utter shit ones untouched
quasi flower
@vestal wren do you have an override for the laser matrix change?
vestal wren
the timing is rly bad, ppl are still in progression
fiery sedge
my traits are still simming as the prenerf
main rain
thats pissing ppl off
surreal solar
Just so blizz can wank off
wild zodiac
not an assn nerf level of pain, but mild irritation
cursive hull
I was actually arguing that Blizz would nerf SS last week, so it's of no surprise.
mellow pier
When is the last time u seen 3 5%-8% nerfs to 1 class in 2 weeks
jovial kite
@cursive hull i argued it since launch so
vestal wren
@quasi flower no sry, not by hand
wild zodiac
MoP, Cata, WotLK, TBC
wheat zealot
All 3 specs were top 5 in week 1 parses
strange python
so, do we run TB instead of exa in m+ now?
quasi flower
nws thanks for the first override regardless
jovial kite
actually since beta
vestal wren
@fiery sedge the changes are in after na goes live so in ~2h (as noted in #tc-updates )
wheat zealot
if you didnt see it coming you were blind
strange python
Rogue can never pull top numbers because our personals and utility is too good so we'll out-compete everyone else
inland path
best traits for tomorrow
mellow pier
@wheat zealot so are they gonna nerf the new top classes next week?
cursive hull
@jovial kite I only started playing Ass a few days ago, and the only reason I did, was because I didn't get any weapons for outlaw. And maybe a little bit because they were superOP 😛
fiery sedge
yeah i know but how are people simming them already
mellow pier
How does that have logic
dark shoal
"Who cares about Poisoned Wires lol" blizz 2018
wheat zealot
They will nerf every powerful trait
wheat zealot
Until none of them are good
unreal coyote
lol
gleaming kelp
The cha ges are not reflected yet in Raidbots, right ?
strange python
SS was Assassination
wheat zealot
And they are all equal
vestal wren
i pinned a overwrite for the ss nerf
unreal coyote
the spec
vestal wren
ppl use that
wild zodiac
trait was the spec 
jovial kite
im happy the nerf came
gleaming kelp
Oh ok thanks fuu
cursive hull
I am too
jovial kite
All the plebs will leave the channel
wild zodiac
@jovial kite me too, it was such boring game play
gusty plinth
but the trait was carrying our aoe and st
unreal coyote
yes like i said
the trait was the spec
if you think otherwise you never looked at a dmg breakdown
unreal coyote
or youre just inept
jovial kite
hate rh when sin is fotm
wild zodiac
not a 1 spec wonder
vestal wren
i didnt play outlaw
vestal wren
outside of some dummy tests
wild zodiac
should have levelled a warlock
dark shoal
Rogue after tlk LUL
unreal coyote
jesus who let him back in here?
jovial kite
unhappy? Go sub
unreal coyote
honestly
cursive hull
My only argument now for sticking to Ass is for PvP, where bleeds will actually keep rogues out of stealth. And it's more relaxed than sub.
keen inlet
@tranquil ermine
wild zodiac
who let me back? 
warm geode
nerfs are live already or just in 2 hrs?
vestal wren
nightblade is also a bleed
cursive hull
Outlaw is fun, but it means I have to start farming weapons again
daring imp
@warm geode live
jovial kite
@vestal wren technically its a shadow dot :p
unreal coyote
we get it riff you love sub and thats ok
jovial kite
muh classfantasy
warm geode
@daring imp ty
wild zodiac
I don't love sub
surreal solar
I feel like Garrote doesn’t last long enough in PVP to warrant it being a big loss in PvP
vestal wren
@jovial kite its a bleed technically, bleeds are dots and it does shadow damage so you are also correct
wild zodiac
I don't love rogue
worthy carbon
what i hate is how shitty the option are for azerite from raids
cursive hull
@mellow pier That's fine. Same happened to Outlaw when they nerfed Deadshot
glad ferry
I'm so tired, I'm a mythic progressing person and I've had to play literally all 3 specs for AoE AND ST in many scenarios just to perform to my peak. Can they stop making suck drastic changes ffs
tranquil ermine
@keen inlet Thats not the APL for all the changes, thats just a manual change for SS.
wild zodiac
I do love people who get so passionate about a computer game
fringe scroll
hazzikostas makes wow great again
strange python
Yeah SS wasn't great in pvp
wild zodiac
Ion Hazzinerfedassnagain
strange python
1xSS is nice for the CP
glad ferry
yeah ik
vestal wren
i wounder if 1ss + 2 other traits are actually the go-to after the nerf
lilac basalt
So are the nerfs live or do we have to wait till 8 PST?
strange python
Never let Gr**ks be in charge of anything
unreal bear
nerfs are not live til server maintenance is over
wild zodiac
racist
cursive hull
@mellow pier But what i'm talking about is utility, not dps. In PvP, utility weighs way more than dps.
jovial kite
its not drastic if ur not clueless
clever cipher
Give new OP build pls
jovial kite
40 was heavy
lilac basalt
server maint is over
jovial kite
But was expected
unreal bear
negative
glad ferry
@jovial kite I'm not clueless, I'm just tired of juggling around specs likeit's fuckin beta. I wish I could stick to one and the other for AoE.
keen inlet
@tranquil ermine apologies, I misunderstood you
strange python
Utility spec is stunbot Sub in pvp
keen inlet
@glad ferry While that's laudable I don't think that's Blizz' goal for pure classes
and hasn't been for some time
like, years
cursive hull
@modern osprey I was referring to a single utility which gives Ass an upper hand on other rogues in PvP, which is an argument to stay Ass even after the SS nerf.
jovial kite
its like you wouldnt juggle on progress aswell
wild zodiac
plays highest level of content, wants to stick to a single spec
jovial kite
wild zodiac
glwt
keen inlet
If it happened that way it's because of bad balancing/design on their part
strange python
Yeah lul
modern osprey
@cursive hull fair enough soz I missunderstood!
strange python
You should keep all specs up to scratch
wild zodiac
^
strange python
Azerite makes it annoying though
unreal coyote
^
wild zodiac
not really
unreal bear
you shouldn't have any problem juggling specs. WQs have been giving swords consistently, you should have had a backup set for Outlaw easily.
glad ferry
what ppl don't understand is that 40% is a beta number nerf.
wild zodiac
azerite is easy to get
mellow pier
Its about not gearing 1 week
keen inlet
I think we can all agree that azerite is a fairly bin system
mellow pier
To have to regear next week
radiant locust
I miss the simpler times in WoD. Combat for AoE, Sub for ST. Assa for ♿
lament dove
you can very much play "highest level" of content with one spec if you're casual, I mean if you don't race for world first kills
mellow pier
Riff do u even have a wow sub atm
lament dove
I raid mythic as assa since beginning of WoD
wild zodiac
it's an "this trait is OP compared to the rest, so let's bring it in line with the other traits" nerf
Yes
I do
mellow pier
Suprised
cursive hull
Even for world first, Method played both Ass and Sub when progressing
unreal bear
no, it's really not. it's a "these traits are underperforming, let's bring the only good ones down to their level"
mellow pier
@cursive hull there arent any rogues atm
jovial kite
roll fotm
get nerfed
cry and complain
fossil jewel
Luckily I only had 1 ss trait, and my parses were still pretty good, so I dont think this will be as bad as people are saying
woeful wraith
lol
vestal wren
@tranquil ermine i am open to suggestions to apl changes, the changes are not even live else so give me, mystler and koji some time to look into it
woeful wraith
you can stick with a single spec entire expansion highest level content if you play it well
glad ferry
yeah. usually a trait like this wouldnt have made it to lie in this state @wild zodiac but it did, because the game wasnt ready. If you just dont acknoledge the fact that the game wasnt ready it doesnt mean it was.
mellow pier
@fossil jewel did u have laser matrix?
unreal coyote
make shallow assumption of why people are angry
add nothing to this conversation
be Bisjack
fossil jewel
No
wild zodiac
The game was obviously not ready for many reasons
unreal coyote
i did it!
jovial kite
Wow
cursive hull
@mellow pier That's not true though 😛 Rogues have almost always been situational, in almost every tier there's been a fight where rogues have allowed you to ease if not all together skip a mechanic, so they're by far more useful than most classes in terms of raiding.
jovial kite
Triggered much
unreal bear
move on to what? lol
unreal coyote
not at all
glad ferry
Yeah bisjack isnt the smartest person in here. shits on people but probably 5/8H
wild zodiac
people angry about a computer game
mellow pier
@cursive hull being mdps is a handicap for last 2 bosses
wild zodiac
let that sink in
daring imp
if all traits are shitty, all traits are also BiS 
woeful wraith
@unreal bear some trait that isn't on any uldir pieces obv
unreal bear
a guy who doesnt play rogue arguing in a class discord.
dark shoal
@unreal bear Poisoned Wires
wild zodiac
UK is Brexiting, and US has Trump as a president, people here whining about a trait nerf
strange python
Best enchants for assa?
wild zodiac
👌
mellow pier
I disagree with his take but hes really good rogue
gusty plinth
herodamage updated?
glad ferry
good for him, he's also a dickhead
celest swan
istn sharpened blades also a very competitive trait now? wondering over the pin DD/SoB
cursive hull
@mellow pier And so is the life of raiding. If you're not going for world first, it doesn't matter. Method will require you to have at least 3 classes ready for raiding to fit a boss' mechanics perfectly. Most raiding teams plays what they want and they make it work.
mellow pier
@celest swan have fun with that bin rotation
leaden ore
the anti-doomsayers circle jerk is always just as annoying as the doomsayers
twilit belfry
ionno im just an m+ player
dark shoal
riff can't complain about multiples things and want to play good multiples specs :omegalul:
twilit belfry
and pvp
glad ferry
Isn't SoB just good for AoE multi doting tho
wild zodiac
everyone go post on wow forums your constructive feedback
mellow pier
Mobs dont live for aoe ruptures
twilit belfry
mutts still fine for 3's, so is sub. But sin was reallyyyy the only way to push score
mellow pier
Not even in 10s
worthy carbon
just go DH actual broken class
mellow pier
Lol
worldly shard
mellow pier
Garrote was only way to compete
fresh bough
If you're playing a class because your guild leader requires you to and not because you enjoy it the game is no longer a game... it's a job
wild zodiac
@worthy carbon DH is too hard for assn rogues
mellow pier
Shit dies in 10s
wild zodiac
too many buttons
glad ferry
they won't ready it @wild zodiac They'll say "boohoooo oh no we don't have any ways to filter feedback"
fossil jewel
We are still in a way better spot than a lot of specs. I really don't get people using a broken trait and then complaining when its nerfed. Sin will still be top half of logs
terse rune
wild zodiac
remember when they fixed an assn bug in legion
drifting hare
quick question. does this mean I have to much haste?
versed finch
SS is still top even after nerf?
split dirge
bcos SS is fun
strange python
are the nerfs live on raidbots?
mellow pier
Like has anyone done a 10 where if its not an elite mob u can actually get 2 ruptures to,full tick
worthy carbon
its ok even if you're a wheelchair DH you still get taken for magic damage buff great game really
glad shuttle
I mean yeah we're not demonology warlock at least
karmic ingot
@drifting hare no, it means you need more haste because it is your highest scale factor.
woeful wraith
double dose most likely top
oblique sky
is SS stil best trait?
drifting hare
@karmic ingot alright thanks
mellow pier
I wish double dose was nh 2pc instead
versed finch
I don't have a single piece of gear with double dose lol
mellow pier
I liked nh 2pc
amber sequoia
Would DD stacking affect how many targets you would FoK on?
vestal wren
@gusty plinth herodamage will get a update later, its not yet
main rain
DD is utter shit in m+ though
dark shoal
I'm alright with the 40% nerf, but, shouldn't they fix the refreshing of it?
mellow pier
@dark shoal LOL
dark shoal
😄
mellow pier
No
cursive hull
@mellow pier So this is the deal with the game, not every class shines on every fight. it's true Ass rogues doesn't have burst Aoe, that's reserved for other classes (and if you really wanna go the extra mile, reroll Outlaw for that fight). That's the way it's always been. However, ass rogues shine in other scenarios and situations. Take my previous guild's ToS mythic progression for example. We would never have killed that boss if I hadn't re-rolled ass rogue for Fallen Avatar to soak a mechanic.
inland path
lol pjok
inner tree
so assa is back to garbage tier for m+ ?
mellow pier
@cursive hull thats because u did it before they hotfixed the dmg tho
mellow pier
Sub could soak it just as well
subtle tundra
Still very good in m+
unreal coyote
but who wanted to dfa through the floor
mellow pier
Assassin allowed u to dmg the maiden better
proud grove
@dark shoal if nobody use it anymore tout don't need to fix
hushed sphinx
Is sob scent of blood?
cursive hull
@real idol In that situation, my dps didn't matter. And I did shit dps the night we killed the boss, because it wasn't about DPS
vestal wren
@unreal coyote best dfa crit so high they broke the floor 😉
inner tree
back to playing sub i guess
unreal coyote
XD
lone junco
@drifting hare it means that haste is your best stat, and your dps will go up by 1.94 dps per point of additional haste.
drifting hare
you guys still playing garrote trait or is it better playing with archive of titans ?
dark shoal
@proud grove "can't fix what we can't see"
mellow pier
During blades
It was like playing sub on elisande
Why would u put urself thru that
drifting hare
@lone junco got you thanks
cursive hull
Here's my avatar kill (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/176486335), don't expect much, because I had re-rolled rogue 2 weeks prior to the kill. But without me, we would never have killed Avatar.
cursive hull
I'm just saying
inner tree
bloodmallet not updatet or SS is still best post nerf ?
unreal coyote
i think a lot fo the people scrutinizing us for being angry misunderstand why were angry
unreal bear
@inner tree bloodmallet is not updated
mellow pier
Ya im angry cause its literally every week
inner tree
oh ok hope we won't have to play with SB
vast patio
Be nice if they actually talked to us.
wild zodiac
I don't live under a rock
strange python
With the nerf of the trait according to you will lose damage?
wild zodiac
but your tears are tasty
unreal coyote
you cant prove it
fiery sedge
does the advanced sim with new trait take in account of the lazer nerf aswell?
void ocean
its annoying being nerfed, but they said they were going to nerf the overly strong azerite traits and buff some lower ones, it should have been expected. They didnt let DS stay the way it was, why would they let SS
mellow pier
Remember when riff played wow, for 1 tier in wod
unreal bear
i'll miss SS because it made arena dmg more competitive
wild zodiac
@vast patio the AMA said they're nerfing OP traits
unreal bear
now im stuck playing in Vendetta windows
wild zodiac
they did talk to you
lone junco
@vast patio they probably did talk to us. they troll this discord just the same
"why is ss OP?"
20x rogues : LOLO GGGCT
main rain
buff some lower ones 😂 😂 😂
unreal bear
the simple fact is that Azerite traits fucking suck and are boring
void ocean
I'm just repeating what they said.
unreal coyote
if i was half as troll as riff id get muted/banned yesterday-i request justice
true ingot
With the nerf they could've at least fixed the bug with it.
wild zodiac
Except there is no troll
sacred pine
Just cus they buff some lower ones doesn’t mean they’re gonna be better 😂
inner tree
single start will be fine but i'm salty because of the cleave nerf
surreal solar
Tier sets where basically better at this point
flat portal
how big will the nerf feel overall? will it be worth going back to sub or is sin still superior ?
vast patio
I'd argue the ama was just non-answers to serious concerns.
oblique sky
so SS is still good for aoe but there are better traits for ST?
mellow pier
Tier sets were easier to balance thats for sure
unreal bear
it will feel like a 40% nerf to the biggest part of your DPS
tropic pike
imaging going back to sub 
fossil jewel
The AMA was such a joke
cursive hull
The only problem I have with this expansion so far, is that with the idea in mind that azerite traits replace item sets, is that you'll most likely keep the same rotation throughout the entire expansion, unless they do drastic changes to the traits. Which can get kinda boring after a while
main rain
400% buffs to shitty traits, its like they didnt even test any of them
unreal coyote
people are angry because of how little thought was given to making a change, angry because switching specs with optimal triats is not as fluid as it should be
wild zodiac
"how little thought"
vast patio
They only value our fun you guys
unreal coyote
angry because of the principles employed in making the changes
if you cant see that
wild zodiac
pretty big assumption into what they actually discussed internally, no?
unreal coyote
just exit stage left
lone junco
for what its worth, i dont think I lost much on a 6T 40sec sim. so in the attempt to nerf sin in M+, nothing much happened, and I lost 1k in ST raid.
thats cool
unreal bear
i'm more annoyed that my pieces with SS are suddenly not good anymore, which doesn't fix the problem with Azerite traits.
cyan stump
I think 3x SS will still be BiS
sacred pine
So is SS going to be the best trait or is there better traits to stack now
lone junco
29k 6T dropped to 28k.
abstract plover
is bloodmallet updated yet? says 2 hours ago ss is still top by far
mellow pier
They dont best, beta is for exposure
daring imp
i'm angry the 4k dps mage got a 385 socketed ring after 2 bresses were cast on him and he managed to die every time
mellow pier
Not for fixing the game
unreal coyote
everyone knew this nerf was coming
mellow pier
Live is beta
inner tree
40% nerf to SS has to be a huge nerf in a cleave scenario tho
mellow pier
Idc bout the nerf
unreal coyote
and thats totally fine
wild zodiac
It's okay, everyone will have forgotten this shit tomorrow
mellow pier
40% shows they have 0 clue
fossil jewel
Honestly the thing that pisses me off the most is rogue gets nerfed seemingly every week now, and a trait gets nerfed, so then you have to reforge, and that's so much gold. All because blizz couldn't balance this system in beta
unreal coyote
^^^^^^^^^^^
unreal bear
@wild zodiac bro i dont forget rogue nerfs. i'll take this shit to the grave
daring imp
lul reforge
true ingot
"Everyone will forget rogues being nerfed for the third week in a row tomorrow" 🤔
inner tree
tbh if you didn't expect a nerf you were delusional
timid grotto
ig the ss nerf isnt too bad for m+, still doing 14k st and 15k overall
lone junco
^ the reforge gold is gonna break me tbh.
vestal wren
just image beeing a ww monk 😉
inner tree
but they should have buffed garbage traits
undone cairn
Just wait and see what the new bis is
wild zodiac
@unreal bear going to the grave kinda means you'd have to be taken to some content... which ain't happening after this nerf
sacred pine
Jesus Christ. Y’all are triggered.... seriously is SS still bis for traits? Or should you be rolling three different ones? Or?
wild zodiac
undone cairn
We don't know
modest peak
@inner tree 100% expected a nerf. also expcted a nerf that isnt 40% or an insanely slight recompansation
unreal bear
@wild zodiac arena rogue tho 8)
cursive hull
That's true, I believe blizzard would've been better off improving garbage traits.
wild zodiac
@unreal bear pvp is myth
lilac fern
The SS nerf isnt live yet, no?
vast patio
Removes set pieces. Adds a system that is worse in every way.
lilac fern
Its tomorrow
mellow pier
Why are they unveiling nerfs half at a timr too
unreal bear
@wild zodiac it's all we got, broski
cursive hull
It's tomorrow for EU
rancid oxide
best traits now?
mellow pier
They say they have more, release them all
proven pumice
I think we all need to relax. As rogues we are clearly very gifted players and can overcome any nerf
quasi flower
you can still play around with the override Fuu provided to get an idea of the change
undone cairn
I think nerfing the traits without buffing others at the same time is kinda dumb
fossil jewel
The reforge is what pisses me off more than anything about these nerfs. I'm fine running new traits or trying out a new spec, but can you seriously keep charging this much gold when you nerf a top trait every week?
wild zodiac
@unreal bear join the reroll club who decided non-rogue for bfa
vestal wren
@modest peak 25% was iirc the numbe to set it in place, the additional 15% are likely to make it worse in m+
vast patio
I survived WoD, I'll be fine. Bitching is just fun.
unreal bear
@wild zodiac never ever. 😦
modest peak
@vestal wren 25% would have been completely fine by my book
lone junco
DR on stacking tbh
wild zodiac
@unreal bear I guess you will die taking nerfs
lone junco
meh
undone cairn
Yoink
unreal bear
@wild zodiac i've survived several expansions of nerfs. gotta experience the dark times so it highlights the good times.
leaden ore
slight buff to rupture would have been good. Would have compensated a bit for ST loss and given more sustained cleave in m+
modest peak
in all reality i just want blindside to be viable
wild zodiac
@unreal bear that's the spirit, unlike these whiney plebs tbh
paper tulip
tbh I don't notice a huge difference in my damage after an hour of training dummy. Sure its there but its not as big as i wouldve thought. I believe SS will still be top 3 trait, but we'll have to see what BM says
deep solstice
Anyone know if raidbots already reflects the SS nerf?
proven pumice
@lone junco you only lost 1k in AoE trash pulls?
fiery sedge
wonder if people go back to sub after this in m+ tho
vast patio
Blindside should be base. Isn't it just dispatch?
inner tree
meanwhile frost dk and dh are still untouched that's an omegalul right here
modest peak
it is, no clue why it should be a talent, but while at it, why not make it a legit talent?
crisp steppe
@proven pumice long fights with low empowered garrote uptime obviously aren't quite as impacted in dps
little sparrow
Sub is a horrible spec
fiery sedge
dh is gonna replace rogue in m+ i feel
bright vessel
in tcupdates it says to focus on DD and SoB .. dumb question what are these short for? 😄
bold ice
I didn't have 3 SS anyways so maybe now I won't feel totally unoptimized as assassination
wild zodiac
Imagine, if there were a concept of 📌 that could answer basic questions
lilac fern
DH is gonna get nerfed for sure
undone cairn
Double dose and scent of blood
bright vessel
ty
fiery sedge
they should be nerfed already
undone cairn
np
vast patio
Reroll now and youll be 360 on the dh before getting nerfed.
spark pike
dh is insane imo
little sparrow
DH doesn't have shroud
unreal bear
"dh is insane"
vestal wren
did they touch dh?
north spruce
is there a way to use the top gear feature with the override line for the nerf?
wintry compass
windwalkers didnt have shroud in legion
mellow pier
So u need atleast 1 so that ur locks can carry u
surreal solar
They’ve never touched DH
lilac fern
They will.
mellow pier
We legit have a dh on fetid just for warlock dmg lol
undone cairn
@north spruce no you're just going to have to manually do it yourselr
Replacing gear
rancid oxide
do i want 1 lazor or 1 archive when in raids?
undone cairn
To sim in advanced
lone junco
@proven pumice ss was way good at 20s. but 40s doesnt seem to be a huge loss. we will be able to tell in M+ tho.
north spruce
mmk
north spruce
hopefully its updated with the changes soon
mellow pier
@lone junco nothing lasts 40s
mellow pier
Even in 10s
vocal harbor
is the SS nerf live? i'm still pulling fat dps on this dummy
fiery sedge
not yet
lone junco
@mellow pier seli said it is realistic for his big keys.
undone cairn
Nope
mellow pier
Everything is dead in like 10 to 20s in 10s
mossy hazel
Where can I see all the changes
daring imp
US is already live O_o
vestal wren
@vocal harbor no, it comes after server restart
lone junco
but yeah, i do most of my stuff in 20s
undone cairn
Oh
inner tree
dh and frost dk were already not far from us in cleave will smashing us in aoe now it will be a joke
vocal harbor
the servers already restarted for NA
daring imp
server restarts
undone cairn
Sorry yeay
daring imp
not daily reset if i'm not wrong
undone cairn
Nerf is live
vestal wren
oh
surreal solar
America’s live, EU isn’t
deep solstice
ya definitely already live on US
vestal wren
my bad then
bright vessel
so sad
true thistle
its been so long and people still crying
vocal harbor
the weekly reset did not happen, but the servers did go down an hour ago for NA
true thistle
whoa
undone cairn
Its normal
proven pumice
I'm just concerned I'm going to be dead weight tbh. I was like a blue parser before getting nerfed and that's with 3 SS traits. Now i may end up in the dumpster
undone cairn
It'll die down eventually
strange python
Are you sure SS isn't live since rolling restarts? Changes to Frenetic Corpuscle seems to be live.. felt like it was proc'ing more in a +9 just now
mellow pier
@proven pumice tbf ur parse % is not represented by nerfs
little sparrow
If you're a blue parser with 3 traits, it isn't the traits my dude it's you
mellow pier
% is based on others of same spec
undone cairn
monkaS
regal snow
SoB is Scent of Blood?
little sparrow
Figure out what you're doing wrong and fix it
undone cairn
Yes
mellow pier
Relative to ur raid group u will do less
undone lodge
hello 🍺
mellow pier
But ur % shouldnt change
heady drum
wouldnt double dose and sharpened blades just be straight better than scent of blood, or are we talking about dungeons?
wintry compass
unless your raid group are all sin rogue LUL
heady drum
even on tyrannical weeks?
daring imp
for m+ double dose is the worst
undone cairn
Wait till sims are updated and soon find out
little sparrow
I wonder if they're gonna nerf sub since it's so OP with its gimmick in raids lol
indigo mulch
i highly doubt sob will be better than 3x SS on high keys.
mellow pier
Tyrannical weeks are not push weeks imo
mossy hazel
And this is why I've been hoarding azerite gear...
daring imp
don't pick double dose for m+
mellow pier
For some keys
vestal wren
i still not sure how well outlaw is in m+
wild zodiac
better than assn in m+
vestal wren
the utility is great and burst aoe
wild zodiac
vocal harbor
are you guys sure the patch is live on NA? i'm still doing the same dps
mellow pier
@vestal wren i didnt like it
Falls off hard low boss,dmg if unlucky
U want consistent with m+
undone lodge
what is live??
vestal wren
did you try the snake meme too?
mellow pier
Nah i didnt
undone lodge
any buff?
mellow pier
Should
daring imp
check garrote max crits during vendetta @vocal harbor
sacred pine
Yeah new patch happened 8am est for my server
modern osprey
snek meme is the best shit
bright vessel
nerfs alia
wintry compass
outlaw super good for farming keys you outgear but yeah I feel it falls off
undone lodge
nerf??????
little sparrow
Snake might be a little strong since everything else is doodoo
final stone
@vocal harbor resets havent gone over yet
broken fiber
Nerfed on NA 
inner tree
so triple SS will still be best for m+ ?
undone lodge
oh fek!!!!
cursive hull
Come join me in Channel-2! Let's talk rogue 😄
shut robin
No
regal snow
yeah thats what i thought about ..everyone is playing Snake Meme build tomorrow
knotty cedar
Thank god i don't throw away gear kek
regal snow
xD
undone lodge
Snek on my head...literally
mighty venture
Best channel to pass the time at work, xD
mellow pier
Make same situation as now
vocal harbor
the NA servers restarted, the instances didn't reset yet
but the patch should be applied
little sparrow
Agreed @mighty venture 
clever cipher
What treat was behind SS in sims again? I forgot
undone lodge
what is being nerfed?
shut robin
Have you tried resetting your ui @vocal harbor ?
vocal harbor
shrouded suffocation 40% nerf @undone lodge
lone junco
@knotty cedar I should have kept my blues. had like 12 shoulders etc. but i melted them about a week ago.
undone lodge
da fuq?!?!?!?!?!!!!!!!!!!
inner tree
So double dose is best now ?
surreal solar
I think it was Sharpened Blades then Dagger
vocal harbor
somehow i'm still doing similar dps on this dummy though
undone lodge
40 fekking percent???!!!!!!!!
little sparrow
I got my last piece of snek last night before I logged off 
main rain
So NA players, did they at least fix the SS bug?
timid grotto
sharpened blades 
oak grail
Its not live EU
oblique sky
you can get them back @lone junco in https://eu.battle.net/support/es/restoration/characters
silver egret
this is why i hold on to all my azerite pieces 😄
waxen cliff
Same lol.
clever cipher
Same
undone lodge
i scrapped em all :((
frosty obsidian
Are SS nerfs updated on raidbots?
waxen cliff
Yikes
strange python
Nope
lusty dew
is the 15 days for restore per character or per bnet?
vestal wren
@frosty obsidian you can use the overwrite from the pin 😉
vale field
dont worry that page is bugged
waxen cliff
Hate to see it
vale field
its missing like dozens of items ive scrapped
surreal solar
For scrapping you have to have the raw scrap mats to return to get the item back
shut robin
Its a way to keep us playing! Next week it will be something else, so we have to grind for another piece. Activision logic
vale field
it made sure to keep the 20 pages of greens i scrapped tho
waxen cliff
Seems like the uldir Azerite shit will be ok. Then.
frosty obsidian
@vestal wren Rip thanks last pin I saw before bed was liavres ><
fresh bough
Save every 340+ piece of azerite gear you get for this whole expac
inner tree
can't see archive being any good even post buff tbh
undone lodge
shiet!!!
vestal wren
yes i did it earlier today, but the changes will be later in raidbots
little sparrow
They make Uldir azerite trash outside of Uldir, then nerf our good traits to force us to use it for ilevel. It's genius tbh
undone lodge
already have 2 SS stacked 😿
knotty cedar
@fresh bough i even save 325+ just in case lol
mellow pier
Azerite system is just dogshit. It legit feels like aj afterthought
And its supposed to be a core feature
inner pulsar
YEs
mellow pier
@modern osprey only in dungeons
modern osprey
ah ok
inner tree
make blindside baseline and give back KB ez
surreal solar
Yes, but it’s not worth doing in PvP
mellow pier
Thats why its good for dungeons
little sparrow
Makes me miss AP weapons, at least we didn't have to fish dungeons 80x just to get one
hexed otter
not anymore or?
warm sable
So after all this crying do we have some solution ...whats we can do and i dont want answers like quite change class ...
mellow pier
@little sparrow weps werent a problen with ml
undone lodge
is it legit that ss got nerfed?
modern osprey
"nerfed"
mellow pier
Cause when that dagger dropped. U knew it was urs
modern osprey
tickled
knotty cedar
100% true
little sparrow
True @mellow pier
mellow pier
Now only 1 who can get agi dagger is u lol
inner tree
yea i wanna know too can some big brain tell what is best now ?
mellow pier
No other class csn even trade u
surreal solar
Nobody knows what’s best trait atm, stop asking
stable yarrow
SS nerf only a ~4% nerf for me on ST, but i assume its much bigger nerf for m+ right
little sparrow
SS will likely still be the best tbh
knotty cedar
LF bloodmallet update
mellow pier
They also nerfed vantus runes
little sparrow
I don't see another trait being better, maybe SoB for high keys
inner tree
you can deduce it by doing maths stop being an ass
mellow pier
Siiiiiiick
main rain
Taking bets for next weeks nerf
frosty obsidian
DD is dogshit for m+
hazy sphinx
Oh we talking bout m+
warm sable
Will see i think its still gonna be the best one just not that big gap between other Traits ...
sweet swallow
Lol @main rain
hazy sphinx
Thought it was raids. My bad, no context. Just got here.
true ingot
Next week we'll be back to sub and outlaw nerfs again
fresh bough
Snek next nerf
prisma pond
Nerf doesnt seem too bad, still getting 17k crits with garrote instead of 23k, hurts but def still strong
mellow pier
@main rain snek and sb
frosty obsidian
I liked SS cause it was good for m+ and ST
fresh bough
Maybe that sub trait
inner pulsar
Where does the mythic chest hide on Alliance side?
solid nova
!chest
prisma monolithBOT
Weekly chest position:
Alliance - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKPlCI652Wo
Horde - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLjg2XCTe7U
strange python
so is it still worth stacking SS trait for m+?
little sparrow
Probably
vale field
id imagine itll still be good
shut robin
@Xero 20 pesos on pickpocket
mellow pier
Chest isnt up
inner pulsar
Thanks, sorry didnt know that command existed
hazy sphinx
The ability itself is too good to pass up.
little sparrow
Think of it this way, 2 SS traits yesterday is the new 3 SS today
little sparrow
Pretty much
vale field
not quite tho lol. feels bad
strange python
mememax indeed
knotty cedar
I looked one of logs and reduced 40% of my garrote damage and i lost 950 dps. Sure my calculation is not quite accurate but just an idea. i have 2xss
fiery oxide
As long as the shareholders are happy guys 🤑🤑🤑
vale field
and it wont even be 40% of your total garrote damage
strange python
I'm guessing the 40% reduction to the SS trait gonna butcher assassination rogues no?
mellow pier
@knotty cedar thats about right, did u have a matrix too?
thorny arrow
i think eventually a TtK build with MP/TB will be good, when we get more mastery.
inner tree
just hope we won't have to play with SB in single target that shit is already bad in sub
little sparrow
No @strange python
mellow pier
I had 2ss and 1 matrix, a little,over 1k
little sparrow
3x SS made you unbeatable as a rogue, it's just more balanced now.
nocturne cradle
Does the latest bloodmallet version posted 2 hours ago include the nerfs?
knotty cedar
@mellow pier 2 ss and 1 blade throw stack thingy
shut robin
@nocturne cradle no
nocturne cradle
kk
icy escarp
They didn't nerf garrote by 40% just the BONUS damage applied from stealth
At 355 ilvl that bonus damage is 591
shut robin
Noooo
icy escarp
Taking away 40%from your overall garrote damage is just wrong
main rain
Tbh nerfing the FotM traits every week blizz is saving us trouble by slowly making all azerite traits worthless
sturdy python
just did an 11 tol, its pretty noticeable
Since trash dies fairly fast in non fortified
coral wolf
is ass shit now?
bright vessel
the SS nerf?
broken fiber
Garrote critting 16k instead of 25k
strange python
Why can't they just make other traits more competitive?
cyan stump
are the nerfs live on US servers?
nocturne cradle
Fixing outliers is much easier
prisma pond
yes
strange python
coral plaza
they didnt even buff useless traits, ty blozzard
indigo mulch
sturdy python
More reasonable to nerf one OP one rather than buff 121 useless ones
little sparrow
Garrote critting harder than dispatch was kinda messed up tho lol
plucky lion
what are the new affixes this week?
wild zodiac
Hello, has everyone calmed down yet?
strange python
No
torpid jackal
no
inner tree
no
broken fiber
no
fossil jewel
No
indigo mulch
no
torpid jackal
garrote now heals mobs
shut robin
I'm moist
split oracle
Hell no
visual token
Lmao
wild zodiac
what's to be upset about? Not like you had a trait nerfed by 40%
sweet quarry
its alt leveling o clock
little sparrow
🐍
strange python
Don't tell me to calm down 
solid nova
@wild zodiac 
magic zenith
yes
strange python
Garrote now does damage to you
little sparrow
Lmao
vale field
has frost mage been nerfed this xpac yet?
main rain
It's your turn next week, subs
daring sedge
Was leveling an alt rogue since i like the bleeding playstyle. Did you guys all stacked the trait which is nerfed? Will that change the playstyle to smth mastery heavy poison Style(heard that was a thing in legion) or will i be fine with a bleed build where most of my damage Comes from
knotty cedar
@icy escarp yea u r correct i just wanted to get an idea thats why i took 40% of whole garrote but it should be less than 950 dps loss for me at least
strange python
Assassination is the true EMO spec now, selfharming Garrote
magic zenith
My outlaw and sin are neck and neck now, but sin pulls way ahead in 3 target
main rain
If you're a DH then yes you are safe
strange python
I thought sin was single target
coral plaza
its like nerfing mana regen few weeks ago, if u are low lvl u had negative mana regen
inner pulsar
Yeap, Garrote has been replaced by Tourniquet, and Assassination has been renamed Triage Rogue, to reflect it's new role as a healing spec
mossy hazel
Is raidbots already accounting for trait nerfs?
fossil jewel
Welp time to reroll feral boys. The true bleed class
shut robin
My rogue is going to commit not alive in wow
carmine kestrel
hey guys, does anyone know why on g'huun at the 2nd feast you sometimes get explosive corruption cross over with whole raid stacking for cleanse and lust + beam tactic?
oblique smelt
Doesnt that always happen?
torpid jackal
Assassination, the true cutting edge
bold ice
Pretty sure that happens every time
knotty cedar
we should all make a strike and not log in our rogues after nerf lmao
strange python
Jesus so many questions of the same thing, I've been here 5min and it's almost every 2nd question..
fierce ingot
Once blizzard nerf everything else in the game maybe dispatch will be good for a week
deep solstice
Because you took a ball to the face.
fierce ingot
I want dispatch to be good
coral plaza
but im sure they will add new trait soon, and also buff some of useless ones,i aint even worried
broken fiber
Dont use dispatch.. they'll nerf it 
prisma pond
archive of titans is giving 240 agility now at max stacks
torpid jackal
100% autoattack
strange python
#AssassinationLifesMatters
torpid jackal
THEY CANT NERF THAT
oblique smelt
Sure they can
main rain
Dodge, parry
knotty cedar
@strange python haha i was thjnking of that
main rain
from behind!
dense quest
they add in hit rating!
cunning needle
just did a mythic. the nerf feels really noticeable on 3 targets but on bosses not as much
fossil jewel
If we dont lock in our traits they cant nerf em bois 
strange python
It's ok, just reroll to Feral, all they feel are buffs FeelsGoodMan
cunning needle
for anyone who wanted to hear some feelycraft
coral plaza
indigo mulch
is the changes there on simulationcraft.org?
strange python
No
broken fiber
How am i gonna beat DH dps now 
inner pulsar
Then go update the APL yourself
ocean heath
is the nerf really that bad?
main rain
Maybe if we use the worst traits, theyll buff the good ones🤔
coral plaza
no, ppl are over reacting
strange python
Have to do manual setups 😡 what is this BS
knotty cedar
@broken fiber swapblast them on pull timer 1
lone junco
@ocean heath i lost 1k in st 13.3 to 12.2. and 1k in cleave from 29k to 28k 6t40s.