gotcha
#assassination
deft locust
ah yeah I see that
Shuriken toss
@junior crest well.. I imagine you use it on max stacks, hope for a vendetta/tb stack to throw it under
other than that
not sure what else you can do
jaunty arrow
Shuriken toss? 
jaunty arrow
😂
deft locust
_>
jaunty arrow
But shuriken storm ad +50 ninja swag dps
junior crest
gotcha, wasnt sure if there was a special condition or jsut use it immediately at 30 stacks
deft locust
I bet that's pretty nuts in pvp, Pop Vendetta, TB, Vanish into a NS PK for a 70-80k crit in arena
o_o
if you have 3 340 SB, that's 29,300 extra damage on top of the rough 650 pk does, so essentially 30k damage non crit, vendetta increases that by 30%, TB by another 30%
NS by 50%
and a crit by 100%
that's some nutty frontload
jaunty arrow
Hmm
jaunty arrow
But still
jaunty arrow
Actualy against demo lock its cool
deft locust
speaking of sin arena, man do you do damage. I went 1v2 against a dk/warrior since my partner left before arena started. I killed the DK with our Frontload before the blind finished on the warrior
then just vanished and did the same to him once everything was up
shame we don't have the utility of CS whenever we want like sub
deft locust
rogues in general are kind of that way tho..
I run rtb snek outlaw as my main spec atm in pvp and I'm almost always top damage by a signif amount
prolly gonna get hit hard in pvp
jaunty arrow
I dont know i am pvp pre patch 2k fagot with exsa who like pandemic dmg 😂
But yeah pirate is strong in pvp now and its fun
kindred cedar
@deft locust Cool! Wouldnt mind if u could find and link where i can find the build tho 😄
native fjord
quick question for yall for the raid thats comming tomorrow average haste percentage needed?
i got 12% but that feels really low
native fjord
biggest issue on my side zero daggers dropped that were with haste at 340
jovial kite
just play till you get 2nd vanish lol
check the dps graph
you drop to 9k after exsang vanishes
strange python
do you wait to line up vendetta with vanish every time?
jovial kite
yes
strange python
i dont play exsang tho
strange python
is it equal to tb?
lone junco
@jovial kite have you worked through that. G ruptire g mut rupture ?
Seems reasonable
warm parcel
Nn 
jovial kite
but yeah @lone junco it pushed my profile exsang dps up by 500
after exsang vanish gar gar
then just line up with vendettas after
currently 100 dps behind tb
jovial kite
👍
opaque grotto
@lone junco is that to pandemic rupture and garrote before you press exsang?
lone junco
Nerf to SS will probably dump exsang a little farther. Hope something shines.
opaque grotto
Do we know a nerf is coming?
opaque grotto
Well I mean worst case we just keep playing TB and nothing changes really
lone junco
I'm more concerned about the SS trait in general.
opaque grotto
I think it’s a bit overtuned because it’s the best in every scenario really
No reason to change traits
Unless you have trash that lives for a long time with a lot of ruptures out with scent of blood or something
prisma pond
I think id be ok with a big nerf to its damage, but make it work on all garrotes, instead of just stealth.
plain thistle
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
tough lantern
with exang should we delay delay vendetta/vanish for it them to line up or just use on cd?
tough lantern
thats like the worst trinket you could get to titanforge
strange python
lol
autumn bloom
rip
grim sail
Do you guys use two garrotes in the opener? I mean before subterfuge wears off.
lilac coral
on trash i garrote as much as i can
ST/boss i just go right into the reg rotation and vanish when it's about to wear off
strange python
make sure you don't use more than 3 garrotes tho
cause that bug
the 4th will canccel the subt dot on the first 3
opaque grotto
double garrote in opener yes
gloomy stump
does anyone else have the fucking bug with cheat death or am i the only one where it doesnt proc
cerulean walrus
Are you sure you just aren't getting nuked?
strange python
so none will play assa in mythic uldir progress so far
by what I heard from the pros
cerulean walrus
Says the outlaw
prime stirrup
I will @strange python
autumn bloom
"the pros"
tuning hasnt happened for mythic so it's kinda pointless for anyone to say what will happen in mythic uldir
grim sail
@opaque grotto So are you starting with Garrote > Garrote > Rupture? Or is it possible to do Garrote > Mut > Rupture > Garrote?
autumn bloom
garrote mut rupture garrote is 4 globals
our globals are 4 seconds
1 second each*
subterfuge is a 3 second window
grim sail
Alrighty, thanks
opaque grotto
that's 5cps if you have SS
grim sail
Yes
Anyhow, can anyone explain to me how it says one stack SS adds 511 damage to garrote, but when I cast it from stealth it adds ~1600 damage per tick
Are the tooltips that wrong, or are there multipliers on multipliers I dont see?
lone junco
@grim sail garrote rupture garrote mut rupture.
grim sail
Oh shit thanks Noobe, thats quite good
But bisjack, subterfuge is 80%, mastery gives 35%, and it adds 1600 damage without vendetta
jovial kite
u sure u got 1 trait?
gloomy stump
no im pulling 2 normal mobs, and they autoattack me to death without cheat death procing
the next time it happens im gonna clip it, happens very often
tough lantern
u got poisons on fam?
lone junco
If you are solo doing wq. Use leeching.
grim sail
I have 2 traits, when I remove 1 I lose 1600 damage per tick from the opening garrote
autumn bloom
are you replacing it with soemthing of equal agi
grim sail
Yeah, 340 azerite chest with a 340 az chestr
grim sail
919, 35%
grim sail
Ah, that makes me sad. Whats the point of trying to figure out shit for myself if it's all wrong anyways. Have to sim no matter what
jovial kite
if 1600 is crit
then it would make sense you would lose that
if 511 + 80% = around 800 dmg
jovial kite
so normal tick you lose 800 crit 1600
grim sail
? I dont follow
Oh
No
I go by what the debuff says on the target
So crit doesnt matter
jovial kite
what
autumn bloom
i assume he means the tooltip of the debuff
that says "suffering x damage every x.x seconds"
grim sail
Yeah
jovial kite
that makes no sense at all 
autumn bloom
what do you mean?
jovial kite
or at the very least the hits on the target
grim sail
Alright Ill check
jovial kite
if i knew you were talking about target tooltips
i would've told you straight up to not care about them
there has always been tooltip errors
there will always be tooltip errors
blizzard dont care
and tooltips are nowhere near representative of your actual performance
final dust
We should be using Potion of Agi's For ZBattle pots Right?
grim sail
Welp, in this case it's about the same. Tooltip says 5266, actual ticks according to details are on average 5382
jovial kite
so you drop from 5382 to 3700?
sand whale
can I ask why you seem to have a fixation with this don't mean to be rude
jovial kite
and these are hits not crits?
jovial kite
when ur stealthed
sand whale
take off all your gear leave your azerite pieces on + dagger disable inner ring traits
do again
jovial kite
if mastery and versa is calculated into ss before subterfuge those numbers would make alot more sense
grim sail
When stealthed it says the same as not stealthed, 11,288 bleed dmg over 18s
Ill try Erik
calm grail
Slagg you running Sin for m+?
jovial kite
most likely
calm grail
I wanted to run OL for Mythic+ but I'm starting to question if I actually want to use it for raiding...
Thing that sticks out for me the most is having like 3 meter arms.
Useful in m+ but that raid downtime ehhhhh
Gonna miss my DoTs.
grim sail
Hey taking off all my gear fixed it, one stack of SS now adds 517 damage
sand whale
yeah so always keep in mind you want a consistent model to work with
royal lantern
as long as outlaw is balanced around RtB...i dont think it will be a really good choice for raids
grim sail
So, it's 511masteryversagisubterfuge
jovial kite
most likely
autumn bloom
i thought it doesnt matter what order multipliers are applied
jovial kite
it does if one of your multipliers acts as additive or multiplicative
jovial kite
ofc it does 😄
autumn bloom
<_>
sand whale
where da experts at
grim sail
Well thanks for the help guys. 'Garrote deals 511 additional damage' has to be the dumbest tooltip. Should maybe be a 'per tick' somewhere in there, w/e.
:p
lone junco
It could just be a pct base. But they probably don't want it to scale forever
grim sail
pct?
autumn bloom
percent?
lone junco
%
grim sail
Oh, haha okay
lone junco
Pvp or in a 5 man group?
autumn bloom
he doesnt have any dots
nothin stoppin you from vanishing while disarmed and opening on him
ornate aspen
Who else is going into uldir without a single 340 dagger drop despite doing every mythic
Feelsbad
ornate aspen
Im na blue bois
autumn bloom
i got real lucky with weapon drops
got 340+ swords and daggers, but cant get decent trinket drops to save my life
if it's not one thing it's another
at least a homie threw me a fathoms
abstract crescent
I was na horde yesterday didn't see it :/
sand whale
I know dem feels no good weps yet
ornate aspen
I got a 350 dice so its not all bad
sand whale
I run m0s with another rogue
he got 340 then 350 then 355
he's like I'm so sorry I can't trade these
abstract crescent
i get disarmed and pistol shot and stunned killing spree even with evasion he 1 shjots me
sand whale
well you can't evade if you're stunned
with rogue duels I usually disengage if I can't get opener
charred delta
cloak of shadows to prevent the pistol stun, you don't need it anyway to clear dots, cause outlaw doesn't have any
ornate aspen
Rogue duels suck balls if you dont get the drop on them
charred delta
and with vendetta he can't just vanish away
ornate aspen
Whats a clean 1v1
abstract crescent
nobody to interfere
charred delta
i think outlaw is the worst 1v1 against rogues just cause no dots
ornate aspen
Its a skill matchup.
charred delta
sub is the best 1v1
abstract crescent
also is it just me or outlaw can vanish twice?
ornate aspen
Sub is who opens first
abstract crescent
was going invisible mid fight all the time
jaunty dagger
definitely can't vanish twice
grim sail
Theres a pvp talent that reduces your cd on vanish by a lot, might be that
jaunty dagger
that's a sub pvp talent?
grim sail
Oh is it? My bad
charred delta
outlaw can just reduce vanish and other cds by 1 sec for every combo points spent on finishers
but still in 1v1 could be like 30 sec less, not so fast
but as someone said before, outlaw doesn't have any dot, after his opener you can just vanish and reset, he doesn't even have FoK to try to aoe you out of stealth
autumn bloom
if he gets tb
can have sub 60 sec vanish
esp with broadsides
he stunnable and blindable during ks
ornate aspen
Open with garrote, get 5 cp rupture, vanish. Easy
charred delta
I'm playing both spec, sin and outlaw right now, and I'm playing as Iron Dwarf... and yes, as iron dwarf is hard to lose 1v1 against assassination as outlaw... cause I can clean bleed and poisons twice and get double vial for 48% heal each... so I guess that matters too
charred delta
good for burst rotations
600 agility + 200 for everything you dispelled for 8 sec
pretty good I'd say 😄
ornate aspen
Does it soak or does it only dispell debuffs already applied
autumn bloom
how can you cleanse poisons twice?
charred delta
only dispell
charred delta
yeah I meant poison, cloak doesn't remove bleeds
but still enough to 1v1 sin rogues
ornate aspen
Thats still pretty strong. Nb
charred delta
against ferals is amazing... they open with full bleeds, you clean everything and get a lot of agility from that, stun, and they're dead
charred delta
yeah don't want to go even more OT considering this is the sin channel, but outlaw is super fun to play... roll the bones can be a pain sometimes 😄
but I like playing sin a lot too, I mained affli lock in the past, I like multi dotting
I hope sin will be more strong with better gear and better haste/crit stats
right now I'm at 345 with both spec, and sin is way too slow compared to outlaw
lusty schooner
How much haste y'all at unbuffed
autumn bloom
10%
lusty schooner
Here I was feeling shitty at 15
coral meteor
go dwarf cleanse ALL the things
charred delta
no
autumn bloom
doesnt it share a cd with your trinket?
charred delta
stoneform put your trinket in 30 sec cd... not sure still about fireblood
I didn't notice
but probably still 30 sec
neat beacon
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
abstract crescent
How long dpes ot take to get iron dwarf race
tough topaz
Got mine at a decent time without being human
light kestrel
Without being human I unlocked mine yesterday, without hardcore clearing of wq's etc.
drifting cloud
you also get 500 rep / 100 resources from warfront
balmy cradle
is crimson tempest damage per combo point the same as rupture? like only the duration increases but not the dmg per tick?
lusty schooner
CT is 
lusty schooner
Anyone know if the bug applying garrote out of stealth fucks with SS has been fixed yet?
balmy cradle
i really dont get why ct doesnt get energy for passive :/ would be so nice
autumn bloom
would be b u s t ed
lusty schooner
It should just be AOE rupture
autumn bloom
that would be extra busted
balmy cradle
i like that tho, just initial hit and rupture 😄
lusty schooner
It's not bladeflurry so it's ok
civic palm
:3
Given how poor OH DPS weighting is it's rather funny that people dropped 300k+ on a 350 > _>
abstract crescent
So iron dwarf takes jow many weeks as a blood elf rogue?
civic palm
Whut
rocky pumice
What do you guys think;. Blood Rite for the Haste or scent of blood
civic palm
Not Blood Rite, check the pins.
rocky pumice
ty
frigid mica
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
frigid mica
Could someone suggest a good WA for tracking SS and important Sin buffs pls? mine broke 😦
smoky prism
Everyone’s saying sin is looking strong because later on the gear and mastery will scale better. Does that mean eventually mastery will be more important than crit or haste?
civic palm
You can use nameplates to track Garrotes and since you shouldn't be casting more than 3 atm from stealth tracking the first three is ez enough.
real night
Noob qn but why shouldn't you be casting more than 3?
civic palm
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
real night
Assuming this is fixed, does that mean we should spread garrote as much as possible?
civic palm
As the guide suggests.
real night
Ty for your responses!
abstract crescent
Is nightborne alliancw or horde
civic palm
Horde.
civic palm
Still not #assassination talk, take it to #off-topic
abstract crescent
Does sin compete in dps for raids tomorrow? Is crimson tempest worth speccing in for raids
civic palm
If there are enough targets and they live long enough, CT will be better than PBOMB and Hidden Blades.
If there are near no targets other than the boss PBOMB should win and if there are low health mobs that spawn every ~50 seconds Hidden Blades should be better.
civic palm
Sounds right.
civic palm
Yeah it's a little dumb, but so long it works as intended I personally don't are > _>
coral meteor
Get max cp, ct, get max cp, ct, the more you ct, the more it ticks for
autumn bloom
oh that's fucking gross
civic palm
Let me vomit a little.
coral meteor
Lol
civic palm
CT was almost that earlier in BfA testing.
in that spamming it just did more DMG than managing the DoT.
coral meteor
Also with the M+ changes, I imagine that locks you in one set of talents once the timer starts
civic palm
CT wrecks on 3+ targets so yeah, that's what you will be doing.
It's only like an ~2% ST loss over not taking PBOMB.
But the AoE you get from it crushes whatever ST losses you might have.
coral meteor
I wasn't going to ask because it's on me to sim it to see the ST loss and weigh the two options against each other - but I'm glad you answered lol
autumn bloom
i wish exsang simmed better for me
civic palm
It's a common thought 👍
autumn bloom
i like it a lot better thematically than tb
coral meteor
(Since the next question logically was going to be "what the fuck do I pick then")
autumn bloom
but tb is more interesting to play with
civic palm
Yeah EX is nicer, probably still better in M+ so that's a thing.
coral meteor
I miss Ex in EN 😦
autumn bloom
how do you figure?
coral meteor
Even if it was just disgusting
because it's bursty @autumn bloom
and you can apply the kidney bleed
(Although not sure if exang kidney bleed > exang with prey > not stunning at all)
autumn bloom
kidney bleed is like
10k damage
im surprised venom rush is the way it is
waste of a talent slot
civic palm
Feels like they might do something with it in the future but TB/EX are exciting enough.
coral meteor
Yeah it's boring and wasn't even good in low levels of gear at 120 😦
civic palm
TBF on that row it's the scapegoat "bad" talent.
autumn bloom
apparently it's got a build in pvp
coral meteor
Yeah we got VR, sub got gloomblade and idk what the useless talent for outlaw will be (probs GS).
Ironic how a lot of ex-staple talents are now the ones to avoid at all necessary cost
lmao
autumn bloom
venom rush sims higher than exsang for me tho
GS mfd is good burst for pvp
gloomblade is worthless
coral meteor
That's true
We'll write off Loaded Dice instead
There is actually a PvP build that uses VR in the guide
But in WGs there wasn't a single game where I was like "i need the extra energy from VR"
abstract crescent
So whats the rotation for pve? Fok and rupture on as many enemies?
civic palm
SIN BFA GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ <-- SIN GUIDE HERE
abstract crescent
So I do not understand the blood elf new racial... can it remove stuff like bubble and shields?
woeful wraith
pot still listed as agi, but bursting blood simming significantly better for me, hmm
supple hearth
At random :)
civic palm
100-200 isn't that significant but it does seem to SIM better for just about everyone in ST.
coral meteor
It's aoe so if it hits 4 people
it'll dispel a buff from each of them
You read guides for general basic guidelines, but ultimate the best thing you can always do for yourself is to sim lol
woeful wraith
1.5-2% for a pot is most definitely significant just sayin, legi parse differences
coral meteor
On that note did anyone do an APL to see if it's a DPS gain to throw a poisoned knife on 4 cp if you have the sharpened blades trait (and don't need to garrote)? Or is it literally only worth throwing at max stacks lol.
autumn bloom
would it be better to let the
max pandemic garrote from the opener fall all the way off
and then vanish and double garrote again
or better to just vanish to perfectly pandemic it
civic palm
Nah let empower Garrotes fall off if you cannot reapply the empowered version.
autumn bloom
but if vanish is up to reapply it
better to just do it at the pandemic window or use 90 energy to squeeze a few more seconds out
if im running 3 ss
abstract crescent
So if he uses bubble it removes it
civic palm
I mean if you are using 1 SS it's the same outcome I am pretty sure.
autumn bloom
kk
just seems like a potential 5.4 more seconds of empowered garrote
it's also late and i might be misunderstanding this
civic palm
Just gotta make sure you have the NRG for the reapplication Garrotes.
autumn bloom
oh interesting
civic palm
refresh
terse pawn
trying to play feral has now given me a new appreciation of having sin as a working spec
civic palm
and you have 48 energy on Vanish.
autumn bloom
ahh
terse pawn
never had to do so much work for such shitty bleed damage
strange python
feral dead since wod
autumn bloom
tru
slender peak
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
daring imp
will SS get the hammer? 
strange python
didnt got SS already reduced by 11% with the hotfix?
civic palm
Yeah.
strange python
Its getting nerfed more and so is SStrike one and deadshot or w/e
autumn bloom
why?
blissful crown
Have you seen our damage compared to some other classes?
autumn bloom
not every class that performs well gets nerfed
and doesn't indicate that we need one
blissful crown
Its always like this with rogues
autumn bloom
if you say so
blissful crown
Well - when something about rogues feels to good, then it will get fixed in some way
autumn bloom
what about us is too good?
real night
I read the scaling for OH dagger is really bad. Just wondering if I can expect a huge DPS upgrade when I upgrade from my ilvl300 OH dagger to, say, 350? Haha
blissful crown
You dont think that 3x ss makes our garrote OP?
autumn bloom
no.
autumn bloom
what about outlaw is overpowered?
strange python
it is
autumn bloom
in what regard?
strange python
sims tells me my otl beats my sub spec in st by over 200dps xD
civic palm
ok
autumn bloom
yikes
strange python
it doesnt feels good
autumn bloom
what does that have to do with anything that we're talking about though
autumn bloom
i still havent heard a reason that rogues need a nerf
civic palm
That's because we don't need a nerf.
strange python
running 3ss/3hear vs mixed azerite marshal masters pirate and he does 1.2k more
na otl is fine boiis
blissful crown
ghost - its probely just me cause i've seen it before.
My gut just tells me when rogues feels to good we get slammed.
And atm all 3 rogue speccs perform very well
civic palm
In... raids they do?
blissful crown
To early to say ofc.
autumn bloom
the fact that reorigination array exists as a trait is gonna reign in 3x SS/Deadshot/Shuriken
during uldir
daring imp
@blissful crown i hope blizz takes the route to "buff other guys azerite traits" instead of hammering ss ç_ç
i think ss is just too great for m+
civic palm
Chances of having 3 of anything is 0%.
strange python
i didnt think so
daring imp
like ... ridiculously op, it instantly fixes any whatsoever problem sin has with building up damage
civic palm
_>
autumn bloom
even with 3 ss sin sims lower than sub and otl
how is that "ridiculously op"
do words not mean anything anymore
do we just say things now
civic palm
Yeah and OTL/SUB perform better there.
+5 is still too low for things to live long enough and we get shit on come +10.
daring imp
on such high keys the likelyhood of doing the shstorm with trash+boss won't be that common
strange python
guys what should i do ? otl sims 13.3 and sin does only 12.2 😦
civic palm
Realize that SIMs don't mean shit in a practical sense.
daring imp
and doesn't outlaw has a downside given how blade flurry works now on higher keys?
autumn bloom
no
civic palm
No.
autumn bloom
outlaw is monstrous on cleave
civic palm
They just take Dancing Steel and BF the whole fucking dungeon.
civic palm
Probably SnekEyez stacking the entire way there.
daring imp
yeah dancing steel might really solve it a bit
thanks, i was thinking about it after i went to carry two guildies and stuff was just taking too long to die, then i thought "o shit i'm screwed on +10's" as outlaw
blade rush is just so nice 😦
daring imp
how exactly?
i mean, it solves the starting build up damage, and after we're spreading everything we're all set for atleast decent damage
strange python
the dmg gain on garrote works for 3 garrotes
if u need two minutes for the packs fuck off
scient would be a lot better
daring imp
nah won't be that much
blissful crown
but the dmg gain from 3 garrotes is still high.
And works good with defensives when u have to move around and so on.
I still think we will see assa doing well on higher m+, like in legion.
daring imp
i still lack 1 deadshot and 1 bits to test out the three stacked traits for sub/outlaw but sin so far has been so god damn satisfying on m+
alpine grotto
I have done really well in mythic s so far. Even gone up against sub and outlaw and out performed them . I think we are in a great spot right now .
strange python
my other two specs have mixed azerite traits
2deadshot thunderous and 1bits 1 thounderous 1 inev
daring imp
the sub gimmick to pull trash on boss is so fun tho
strange python
but both specs are on papper 1k above sin actually
alpine grotto
Sin I think will scale better . With gear
strange python
and yes the gain from the 3 garrotes is high if u dont do shit and fuck yourself with the bug
but i think on long terms and densety scient would be a bigger gain
daring imp
the damage from non empowered to empowered 3ss is like 6x higher
strange python
at the end we speak italian and the reality is two mops per pull, i think i will mix up my traits for m+ 1x synaptic 1ss 1scient or 1 ss 2 scient something like thirs and deepends on factors like killspeed/ff/ty
on tyr maybe tripple ss 😉
I wouldnt worry about traits atm, specially if the big trait revamp is coming
Ilvl might just be king, specially how bad its going to be trying to get pieces from m+ box
prime stirrup
The medivh bfa guide says to run 80 m+5s this week. which is insane. glad im not pushing for top 100
prime stirrup
yes they are published. i dont have all on me right now but m10 is 136% bonus dmg + hp
but that doesnt include fortified/tyrannical numbers
daring imp
well shouldn't be that bad i guess
glossy rapids
👏 loyal 👏 to 👏 assassination
strange python
80 m+ for what
daring imp
for hardcore raiders i guess?
prime stirrup
for gear runs, if you are trying to push top 100 mythic raid team
strange python
Lol
strange python
I can guarantee you, even most people in top10 wont run +80 mythic+
prime stirrup
you have 7 days to do it. so it isnt that insane if you break it down. but its a lot of wow for sure
strange python
legendary grind is over
daring imp
"Most common mistakes are:
- doing 6+ keys or higher, it'a a time waste since loot doesn't go up after 5+"
what
daring imp
yeah but from +5 to +10 the base ilvl doesn't increase?? o_O
strange python
Literally you only spam 5-6 this week
And do 1x 10 for weekly at the end
Its 355 base
strange python
Yes 355 is the cap
prime stirrup
it will go as its supposed to after next tuesday
blissful crown
But isnt the system wokring the same way as legion, if u complete a 5 in time i goes up to a 6 or even higher?
prime stirrup
blissful crown
And then you downrank that key and keep going
solid nova
Yes, it works in the same way.
blissful crown
Alright.
prime stirrup
But you do want to complete 1 +10 for the weekly chest
cause it will count as next weeks loot tier. so it would give 380+
solid nova
Yup
prime stirrup
it definitely is
shrewd pine
+10 isnt that hard, its "only" 170% extra HP and damage
dawn shore
u just have to play "smarter"
tranquil marlin
You dont have to do it with an 340 party. Do normal uldir/hc and several m+5 or higher and youll be around 355-360 to get that m+10
shrewd pine
yea just gotta do the mechanics properly and interupt whats supposed to be interupted
tranquil marlin
What kind of dps are you archiving unbuffed on a raiders dummy? Mine looks pretty low, mind to switch from outlaw to sin when uldir is open.
lament dove
I didn't use the dummy since the beginning of Legion, maybe checked some openers but it's so useless to make any conclusion about your rotation
tranquil marlin
Yeah but a good way to check and compare your actual patchwerk dps , for sure unbuffed.
civic palm
People @ 340 should be around 10K unbuffed.
tranquil marlin
I know its not comprehensive at all, but i did 10,5k at OL and im wondering about my 8k as sin. I knew sin is not the top spec, but so far behind?
civic palm
SIN is not-so-secretly ahead.
tranquil marlin
Uhh damn, did mostly 85-90 logs in legion, and due to the lack of kingsbane it should be even easier in bfa
prime stirrup
i just held 9.5k after 1m dmg and no vanish use. so around 10.5 sounds close
tranquil marlin
Thanks for the responses! I should check my azerite traits again
civic palm
KB added little to no difficulty and due to lower NRG regen and CP gen there's less room for you to fuck up.
tranquil marlin
You had to atleast pool some energy and use your shoulder crit buff in the right time window. I know its no rocket science but atleast it was something 😄
strange python
Pooling died after first raid
There was no skill in using KB
You used it on CD and the duration was covered by Envenom just by doing normal rotation
stark token
So outlaw sims about 1k higher for me right now but with boss fights not being 100% uptime etc do you think assass will just outdo it?
warm brook
Not sure, theres quite some aoe this raid
light kestrel
With the crazy amount of AOE in uldir... Outlaw will probably be king
stark token
Fair enough! I have yet to look into the bosses much
light kestrel
when you have to cross over and can't hit the boss anymore
it's pure aoe at that point
warm parcel
You have one add that requires killing in melee
stark token
There’s more than one right
warm parcel
With the odd adds ranged kill outside
stark token
Yeh and you kite round?
warm parcel
OL flurry doesnt really do anything as the adda are spread apart and spawn at diff times
warm parcel
You should just focus on the big tank add
OL does have nice increased melee range advantage there
For not standing in shit
daring imp
mfd time lul
prime quail
What affixes
stark token
No one knows I think
prime quail
Do. we get this Week?
stark token
Could be wrong
warm parcel
Thats a seasonal affix
prime stirrup
not sure if youre trolling or not
but just about every boss has adds
that need to be aoe cleaved
prime stirrup
mother has adds
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's for BFA:
https://wago.io/HJUbINlV7 (Mizerok's Group)
https://wago.io/E1EB91OtM (Lokkek's Group)
https://wago.io/SyLUNGD4X (Sovv's Group)
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
echo geyser
!wa
strange python
Mother adds spawn twice in the fight 4head
prime stirrup
every single time someone crosses the plane
1 for each person
so if youre in 30 man raid
thats 60 adds
but you right. no aoe at all
light kestrel
When you said plane, I imagined "Snakes on a plane", good times.
prime stirrup
Someone needs to go and review some more raid material
versed mica
!ss
prisma monolithBOT
Shrouded Suffocation
Currently still bugged. Applying 1-3 Garrotes in Subterfuge, and then applying another Garrote outside of Subterfuge, all of your Subterfuge-empowered Garrotes lose the Shrouded Suffocation multiplier, However the Subterfuge multiplier still remains.
Advised to not cast unbuffed Garrotes to avoid losing SS trait damage bonuses until this has been fixed.
warm parcel
1 mother has diff adds. Some are healer some are prio
2 there are better classes that aoe and you stay on boss
So why would one go OL there then
You can be the last one to cross meaning youll never see an add
strange python
O ye i didnt realize i was arguing with a LFR player, was talking about mythic obviously
My bad
honest needle
why is sharpen blades best trait ? it doesnt seem good to me ?
honest needle
isnt that only with throw spell or fan of knives
strange python
Ss seems to be a solid overall trait
stark token
Remind me sharpened blades does?
honest needle
increase dmg of poisin knife ans shurilen toss
honest needle
so we actually use throwing knife spell alot more ?
strange python
Only at 30 stack so yes a lot more in theory lol
But i wouldn't bother. Vanish 3 x garrote
Would be insanely better on multi target
honest needle
so do we still use mutilate for combo point building or poison throw knif e?
strange python
And the ST gain is minimal
honest needle
what trait should i be looking to stay as assasination then
strange python
Muti. Only use pk at full 30 stacks. Which had a little ramp up time
Unless changed
Ss seems to be the better all round option
This may change with tuning
stark token
Oh yeh I remember
honest needle
wait so for multi target i use throw knife at 30 stacks what about single target
strange python
No... you use throw at ST
Those with shrouded suffocation would do almost as much ST but on aoe they would wipe the floor with PK trait
tender walrus
What can i do to get ss traits asap?
Or is it just luck
I did all mythics and didnt get a single ss
uneven summit
anyone using FoK for that last 5th CP?
strange python
solid nova
No?
uneven summit
Next question; Mutilate for that last 5th CP or Envenom 4CP?
solid nova
Why would you mut at 4CP? When its a guaranteed over cap.
Guide covers finishers at 4+
uneven summit
i know they do, that´s why i ask what you guys do , i allways aim for the 5cp
solid nova
You finish on 4+
You dont need to get 5 everytime
Its a waste
To read the guide but then go against it for reasons unknown, is just counter intuitive
tame ingot
this might be stupid question i can only use garrote in combat if i use vanish right ??
lament dove
no, it's usable outside of stealth, you should keep it on your prio target
final lagoon
Would it be worth wasting a combo point to put Toxic Blade up and get benefit on an extra 5combo envenom?
Also - if toxic blade and rupture are expiring and you have 4-5 cp is it better to envenom or refresh rapture?
solid nova
You can refresh in pandemic
tame ingot
wait what.
its been awhile since i played assi but when did that change hasnt garrote always been stealth only ??
all that lost dps
omg
solid nova
You can garrote outside of stealth, yes.
nimble gulch
i just saw thth on raven hold there is not special opener wich involves ss ? how do i open when i use ss on ST
prime stirrup
garrote garrote rupture vendetta tb
nimble gulch
and then build up to 4 cp for envenom ?
blissful crown
What are ppl doing with the stealth bar btw? Are you stealth bar ur mainbar aswell?
prime stirrup
stealth and mainbar are set the same
blissful crown
Yeah so it dosnt switch around
Cause i have problems when ppl try to gank me and lets say i vanish garrote and then wanna use kidney shot, then its not on my stealth bar
and then i miss 1 sec 😄
But can u set it in ur bartender that the bar shouldnt switch?
vestal dune
So double garrote is stronger than garrote mutilate at how many ss traits?
On opening
prime stirrup
any SS traits
because you pandemic first garrote
instead of 18+18 you get 23+23~
same reason why you double garrote out of vanish
vestal dune
Finally an answer, because this is not on the guide (that I have seen)
Only on 1st vanish tho
You can pandemic the rest
heady ore
Thanks for that hint bud
vestal dune
With normal garrote
prime stirrup
what ever you do, dont use garrote while you have SS garrotes ticking
i let vanish garrote tick to .1 if possible before refresh, best to milk that dps for all its worth
vestal dune
Yup, like in legion
devout jolt
when do you guys use your vanish in a boss fight? Is it situational or do you use it near the end of the opening Garrote? (early on in the fight)
hazy iron
You want to use it when in pandemic of your SS empowered garrote. Depending on fight length, you may want to hold vendetta for your second vanish, btu that's feelycraft and not substantiated
devout jolt
yeah, I always use it in Pandemic. Been using it in M0 in the pandemic of my opening SS Garrote but that may change on raid bosses.
hazy iron
yeah, i imagine if a pack of priority adds come out, we'd hold vanish for those
in raid
strange python
do our dots snapshot or adjust with active buffs?
Yes and yes
how can it be both?
does it increase in damage with actives but holds buff till end of duration?
vestal dune
Talents like ns snapshot
strange python
Few things snapshot
marble whale
if we double garrote, shouldn't we wait for the buff to expire before vanishing and double garroting again? don't we lose those 5 secs if we pandemic the first empowered set of garrotes?
jovial kite
yes
strange python
does elaborate planning buff our currently applied bleeds, or should we try refresh during that buff?
jovial kite
but the current bis opener is garrote rup garrote vendetta tb env
ep is dynamic
so it buffs the bleeds during its uptime
strange python
ah cool
strange python
yup, it was more regarding to gar
just trying to workout if there is any snapshotting on the dots
jovial kite
only for ns and subterfuge
strange python
yeah, but not for gear procs/etc
jovial kite
everything else is dynamic
vestal dune
1st time I hear about garrote rup garrote
devout jolt
same
jovial kite
#tc-updates is ur friend
devout jolt
that only for Exsan build?
vestal dune
Yup
vestal dune
It also says to only garrote once on the vanish
vestal dune
Yeah you are right, just read the end, it garrotes twice
jovial kite
and if im not mistaken
mystler found this opener gain for poison build too
but its not mentioned in the updates post
but its there on research channel
but it doesnt matter much in poison if you just double garrote the opener
instead of garrote rup garrote
whats a gain is letting ur first doublegarrote run out then applying vanish double garrote again
this is a gain
vestal dune
Yeah, I see he also vanishes rup garrote garrote, but I supose the rup is only for exa builds
hazy iron
why is it a gain waiting for the opening garrotes to drop off, rather than refreshing in the last few seconds with vanish?
jovial kite
you get 5 sec more buffed garrote
hazy iron
the way I see it, pandemic means we don't lose uptime?
then let the vanish ones run out completely
strange python
@prime stirrup why would you vanish garrote garrote <6 seconds on the opener? Surely you would wait to sub .5 else your pandemic timer is irrelevant from the first garrote. Only time that would be worth doing is vs multi targets sub 6 seconds vanish pandemic garrote for max duration then garrote garrote on a 2nd or one on two new targrts
vestal dune
Thats only for the 1st vanish tho, the others you can get the pandemic from the normal garrote, unless i miss something
jovial kite
yeah exactly
you dont get 22 + 22 by pandemicing the initial 22
you lose 5 seconds
hazy iron
so it's ok to pandemic our opening garrotes with our first vanish, right? and then let the vanish ones drop off
jovial kite
if you odont let the initial double garrote run out
no
you let it all run out
then double garrote from 0
hazy iron
oh right i get it
strange python
@uneven summit only ability i would use at 4cp for a 5 is garrote if its about to expire (sub 6 seconds for pandemic) unless its empoweres then i would pool energy ( and depending on energy may kust use a 4 point to not get capped) and then renew or garrote and 5 cp finish
hazy iron
because the initial garrote from the vanish is gaining 5 seconds
jovial kite
this is also a gain from cp standpoint
strange python
@jovial kite agreed
jovial kite
yeah
devout jolt
sweet, think i will test it in m+ tomorow pre raid
jovial kite
exsang opener bursts 5k more than tb opener on average
strange python
@devout jolt it has higher burst
jovial kite
for my profile its 100dps less average than tb
but has 50 higher max potential
and around 200 worse minimal performance
hazy iron
is this reflected in the simc nightly?
devout jolt
cool thanks. will test it on live to see if I can get along with it.
hazy iron
sweet
strange python
@jovial kite you sim 200 above me. Sad face panda :(
strange python
Can you link me your wowprogress or armory in pm
devout jolt
any reason you use leeching over cd?
jovial kite
wq:ing mainly
devout jolt
ahh yeah, makes sense
vestal dune
I guess the difference of double garrote or garrote rupture garrote is really small for TB build
devout jolt
i would think you would have to re apply rup in the vend/tb window
devout jolt
ohh exsan is 120 less then tb for me on my sim
vestal dune
Do we know which of TB or ex scale better?
jovial kite
too early to say
also there will be balance patch in a week
so before that everything is feelcraft
vestal dune
True, I am gonna go TB for the raid opening as it's simpler,but I hope exa ends up coming back strong
It was fun
strange python
I find this opener works best for me. Garrote garrote rupture vend tb mut envenom then standard mut envenom for ep uptime
@jovial kite us or eu mate
jovial kite
but we can theorize that if exsang bursts higher and no balance happen then exsang will be your go to as your raid gets more gear
shorter fights = more value for higher burst
eu repro
strange python
@jovial kite and for any fights with a big add priority
vestal dune
But both builds would need to scale equal for that
strange python
The vanish bleed exhange will be crucial for progress if you need solid ST burst
Next week we get tuned and we all reroll to warlock
jovial kite
due to simc, you i burst 35k
the vanished double garrote after exsang pushes me from 9k to 11k tops
so the emphasis for exsang will always be on vendettaed vanish exsangs
strange python
Yep
jovial kite
and how these timings match your raids dps is what dictates if its good in the end or not
strange python
And tbh is what dictates our specs
jovial kite
missing one vanish vendetta exsang just as the fight ends means alot
strange python
If your raid lacks hectic add cleave.. or pure ST or 2-3 target dps
@jovial kite ou logged out in odd gear?
vestal dune
Exa has 45s cd?
jovial kite
🤔
strange python
Do ppm differ from MH to offhand? Or is that all normalised now for enchants?
jovial kite
doesnt matter which you have in which hand
vestal dune
So with exsa you need to hold the cd every 2 to match it with vendetta vanish?
jovial kite
2:25
strange python
Tbh @vestal dune its safer to go TB at moment
jovial kite
is usually when you vanish another time
strange python
The dps gain is so minimal
vestal dune
I will go TB, but I want to know the rotation a bit
strange python
For exang or tb?
vestal dune
Exsan
jovial kite
so that leaves you 10 sec per exsang to hold
this you can use to fish for procs
of trinkets / enchants etc
strange python
Exang is get your garrotes and ruptures up and use exange :p
Aoe CT before exange
vestal dune
Yeah, but I want to know how to match the cds
strange python
Vendetta first etc :)
jovial kite
like i said
vanish after first exsang
then
you will vanish again at 2:25
so you got 2 exsangs before
which you will hold on average for 10 sec
before vanish vendetta exsang again
tawny pike
i came back to Rogues after casually playing them a bit on WoD. Do they removed Fist Weapons for every rogue spec?
jovial kite
no
tawny pike
well i tried using one for assassination and mutilate requires daggers for example
dawn shore
u can use fists for outlaw, or sub as oh only
tawny pike
ok ty
vestal dune
So you hold vendetta a bit after the 1st one to line it up with vanish?
jovial kite
yes
tranquil marlin
Is poison damage magic or physical? Regarding dh/monk buffs.
jovial kite
poison is nature dmg
tranquil marlin
So not affected by any of these debuffs?
I thought any kind of damage is either magical or physical
vestal dune
I have a few more doubts with exsan, but I will save them for when/if the talent becomes bis instead of spamming 😝
If i play that rn, my dps is gonna drop a decent chunk
native fjord
I swear pbomb never goes off for me
native fjord
Anyone else been having trouble with pbomb?
solid nova
Trouble, how?
native fjord
I never see the damage increase from pbomb
dawn shore
depends on what @strange python for PvP it is probably the best atm, for pve it isnt
mossy hazel
Raid bots APL currently doing garrote > Rupture > garrote for opener. Assuming that 3cp rupture is just to get elaborate planning up?
wide mountain
Guys, when having 2 SS traits, is it worth using exsanguinate at all?
strange python
Dont think there is a big difference atm, play w/e
wide mountain
I see. Also, when using crimson tempest, is it worth using it over envenom on 2 targets?
strange python
@dawn shore
somber egret
Balance patch today or next Tuesday?
vernal sinew
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gZtVaGbxPsGW3xNEi7cYNH
Guys do u Think is a bit low ?
somber egret
Not at all
jovial kite
@somber egret next week
somber egret
Thanks @jovial kite I could swear they did one the day EN dropped that’s why I was unsure
jovial kite
iirc it was hotfixes
balance patch happens always on mythic open
and is titled as such
knotty dew
Can anyone tell me the the traits for sin on the Champion of Azeroth exalted 355 chest? can't check myself atm
somber egret
I hope they scale Pb better. It’s like a wet noodle for me right now. 2-4%
somber egret
Well yeah but I’d like to see it do more than 2-4%
rough wedge
my dps sucks, I can't handle heroics at ilvl 330 halp
jovial kite
I def wouldnt
somber egret
You using CT instead?
jovial kite
No
pb being as it is is good
Its still best st
But it doesnt give bad players a rng catchup
Which is 👌
somber egret
lol that’s the weirdest thing I’ve ever heard. “Don’t touch it because, now that it’s less of a 110 talent I can seperate myself from noobs”
stark token
But kinda true
somber egret
I get what you’re saying tho
stark token
It’s like outlaw and the 5 roll
stark token
I’m second between outlaw and assass for first raid
Played outlaw the whole expac so far
Sims about 1k higher
jovial kite
Consistency being the key
stark token
But time off the boss