current content isn't much though
#assassination
south thunder
strange python
well he asked "right now"
ebon bramble
assassination aoe is surprisingly decent
think its great in mythic+ where stuff dont die so fast
then again i wish we had something like bladestorm LOL
strange python
sin will have its place in high m+ and raids. rn dungeons heavily favor burst dps
ebon bramble
yup yup
i hope single target
we are ok
seems like sub is all the rage
im guessing shroud is still...dead?
not in the pins, so i cant confirm ><
strange python
fathoms nerfed by 9%
ebon bramble
dang
south thunder
glad i didn't buy it yet. hope the price drops
strange python
I mean
autumn robin
I would play sub, but i really haven't touched it since like wrath lol
shy wolf
squal buffed by 300% Poggers
ebon bramble
dont think i like playing sub
strange python
the 300% buff is... Odd
ebon bramble
how bad can you QA be if you have to buff it by 300% its like...no one tested it
shy wolf
and still nothing on the dagger...damn
ebon bramble
what dagger?
strange python
eu emissary dagger has caster dps stats instead of melee
shy wolf
^ that
strange python
so it has like 60 dps instead of 120
ebon bramble
WUT THE FUK
shy wolf
funny thing is...it's still more melee damage than my current dagger
ebon bramble
lol
swift skiff
tradewinds or fan of blades
strange python
My rogue got insane drops compared to my mage lul should swap classes 🤔
pale shell
assassination is best
candid phoenix
what do u guys think about the Tiny Electromental in a Jar trinket
i got it 345 socket, but the procc dmg seems a little weak so far
pale shell
my energy regen got fucked
daring cave
Are they going to fix SS?
fleet whale
twist the knife might be ok
river quarry
fathoms bis for assass? checked the pin but it doesn't list/say.
inner zephyr
Which trinkets do you guys think i should be rocking for dungeons? Lustrous Golden Plumage with Darkmoon Fathoms or
Dark moon with Harlons loaded dice and any suggested builds that you think are working well for pve
charred moat
If they're all the same ilvl fathoms and the dice
Im using poison bomb instead of ct because it feels better at lower haste
I prefer rupturing everything rather than doing a bleeding fan of knives once
frail prairie
ahahah
i've bought Fathoms yday evening
and it's getting nerfed
rip 200k gold
😃
zealous dew
another item bugged ?
proc is 99 haste
not to mention the BY FOR in the equip effect
alpha game
zealous dew
will do
chrome stag
are they ever gonna fix fekin sap, 50% of the time whenever I sap and leave stealth I'm in combat with sapped mob
short pebble
never had that happen to me
frozen pecan
never happened to me either 
zealous sable
Walking next to a sapped mob destealthed gets you in combat
hollow barn
I’ve had it happen
weak pine
Idk about sap but vanish-garrotte needs to be fixed
civic palm
What's the issue?
hollow barn
The sap thing? Or the garrotte thing?
weak pine
A bug with SS
It sometimes generates only 1 combo point, not sure if the damage is empowered this way with subterfuge
But it doesn't go on cooldown
civic palm
Yeah there's an issue with SS, not with Vanish - Garrote.
short pebble
whats ss again ?
civic palm
Shrouded Suffocation.
short pebble
thanks
civic palm
Shitty Strangler
weak pine
Never had it on an opener tho
strange python
If I take nightstalker talent and use vanish to apply rupture for the damage bonus, will refreshing rupture in the pandemic window allow it to keep the 50% bonus damage as long as I keep refreshing it?
civic palm
No.
strange python
So pandemic is literally just for extra 30% duration?
civic palm
For us, yes.
lament dove
and if you refresh the nightstalker-empowered rupture, you overwrite it with the second weaker rupture
civic palm
Did they change Feral tooltips?
warm parcel
Why
civic palm
I remember them having some text on them about snapshotting in Legion.
ebon bramble
how far behind is assassination compared to sub currently?
civic palm
No wait it was on TF -
strange python
But you’d stack that on bloodtalons too
civic palm
and that same text is on BT -
civic palm
Just Feral, like usual.
strange python
It’s so slow to play I switched over to sin rogue lmao
lofty junco
so they fix dagger in the back but not SS?
civic palm
1 thing at a time.
lofty junco
yeah a weapon wq and it is......a sword -.-
severe osprey
to be clear , what is not working on SS ? stacking combo or added dmg ?
lofty junco
the only thing worked is that is gives us 2 CP with 1 stacked trait nothing more
lofty junco
its better to use other traits i guess
severe osprey
ok thanks 😃
lofty junco
like 3x dagger
wispy quest
is the emissary dagger fixed?
lofty junco
seems not^^
devout jolt
Its not but I did see someone post a GM reply to their ticket saying they are aware of it and looking into it and to not get rid of the dagger incase the fix either buffs DPS or gives int not agi
civic palm
Well it's either a melee weapon with caster weapon stats, or a caster weapon on the wrong table.
There's something to look into use your brain.
zealous dew
prob they were too busy pushing the random WQ #22 where you have to kill 4 parrots and collect 2 carrots
that takes 22 hrs to fly and 10mins to walk
devout jolt
the fact its also only Horde EU puts it very low on their table probably
civic palm
Probably an issue with their item automation tables and they need to figure out how it got there (bad stat allocation led to it being put there, bad itemID).
devout jolt
it will most likely end up losing agi and getting int
seeing as ret palas got shields for loot
wispy quest
why a rogue should be rewarded with a caster weapon? °-°
i mean, even the id is refering with a normal agy weapon
civic palm
That's the problem.
late shore
Askmrrobot shows the dagger with correct dps/dmg
woven snow
do you have a bad time killing a pack with 3-4 mobs???
wanton depot
yup
woven snow
also , i cant even survive in island expenditions heroic .. wtf
and i have 336 ilvl , i mean other classes with less ilvl can do more than us
steady wharf
I haven't found a problem in island expeditions
crude iron
what are you guys talking about 3-4 are definently not a probloem neither are island expeditions
tight meteor
i mean like
1v1 a 700k hp mob
dont htink you can do it without popping literally everything
they chunk me for 1/3 my hp per hit
steady wharf
in a pack with 3-4 mobs, rupture them all, stun on CD and evasion and you'll be fine
tight meteor
or something dumb like htat
crude iron
^
you shouldnt be able to 1v1 a 700k hp elite without using everything
thats the point of 700k hp elites
crude iron
i was just refering to the dude that whined about doing less than other classes in heroic island expeditions and struggling with 3-4 mobs... i think at that point that hasnt much to do with choice of class lol
civic palm
or expecting too much.
crude iron
it is hard, it should be hard.. we are literally 1 week into a xpac and most people wear blue quest items
civic palm
Come to think of it, SIN should fucking obliterate mIE's.
crude iron
but everyone who says assa rogue slacks behind other classes or struggles against 3-4 trash mobs needs to git gud
lol
civic palm
or try not tanking everything.
thorn crater
they dont have the hp needed to maximize the dot dmg
esp for M
expeditions are a different matter
crude iron
the struggling with 3-4 mobs wasnt in island expeditions ...
thorn crater
i mean mobs do hit like a truck
crude iron
in expeditions yeah
thorn crater
some sethrakk crap does as normal mobs as well
and u have to pop eva to be able to stay alive while they bleed to death
literally wqing is inefficient as sin
unless u tag everything and let others kill it
crude iron
it is not lol
thorn crater
so ure saying u can clear the kill 10+8 wqs with sin faster than outlul?
crude iron
idk about faster than outlaw but i definently dont feel its slow?
i kill normal mobs in a few seconds and group of mobs i just apply garotte and rupture and run to the next pack rinse and repeat
thorn crater
i mean i can pull 5+ mobs as outlul pop BF BR 2-3 finishers and they are all dead
u cant do that as sin
crude iron
i can if i proc poison bomb
late shore
up to around 328-ish ilvl i was struggeling with WQ and such, but now at 334 i can quest pretty smooth. garrot and fok on bigger pulls
crude iron
ofc outlaw aoe is better but that wasnt even the point 😄 someone further up said he cant survive hc island expeditions as 336 ilvl and feels outdamaged by other classes and struggles against 3-4 normal mobs in the open world which is just ridiculous
thorn crater
the moment i realised that man i stopped msging 😛
cause with half part of the conv it sounded like u argued sin is up to par with outlul on aoe speed
and i was like wtf 😛
i mean i main sin too but lets be realistic
crude iron
lol no outlaw aoe is nuts but tbh i dont have problems to keep up on aoe fights in Mythic
thorn crater
well my M team is a dh and a frost mage
had to go outlul or they were gonna get another one for keystones in the future
tight meteor
2 melee?
crude iron
i agree that outlaw is easier to get good aoe damage but sin is definently viable engough for aoe fights .... so idk about that "getting someone else for keystones"
just spam knives and apply ruptures and garotte
poison bomb proc is also nice
civic palm
You will be going SUB for higher keystones for Season 1 as priority targeting is too important and I do not think EX can keep up with SUB.
PBOMB is horeshit awful compared to actually active AoE.
civic palm
The trash is the reason people will play SUB.
tight meteor
they focus kill fast
civic palm
Go read Infested and tell me OTL or SIN handles it better.
SUB wins Season 1 for Rogues, period.
tight meteor
funnelling damage through fan + evisc
crude iron
There will be a parasite inside a certain number of enemies (non-boss) and make that mob resistance to CC, deal bonus damage and have more health. Once it dies, it'll try to make its way to another mob and infest it but can be killed and stunned along the way.
thats what you mean?
thorn crater
ok legit question. how hard is it to play the sub rotation?
crude iron
Is there any class in the game that has a hard rotation ?
solid nova
I know 😉
crude iron
Even after reading what infested is I still disagree that there will be a significant difference between rogue spec
Sure on demand dance for cc is nice
But it’s not like you don’t know that you kill a infested mob atm and can’t set up for a stun
tight meteor
what im confused
its not dance cc
but shuriken storm buffs evisc
then you evisc for a lot
funneling all the damage to the infested mob
crude iron
ok that makes more sense tbh i thought he was refering to cc since it states the infected mob can be stunned and slowed on the way to infect others
tight meteor
no its just killing infested mob asap
crude iron
hm sure but i still dont buy it 😄 we will see how it plays out tho
tight meteor
yeah
crude iron
is this a azerit trait you are refering to?
tight meteor
all g
civic palm
No Rogue spec. is difficult to play.
tight meteor
^
crude iron
at least not in pve
crude iron
just keep 1-2 dots up and spend leftover cps on finishers ... but that basically describes every class in the game if you take cp out of the equation
crude iron
yes
icy temple
yea
tight meteor
dont expect a fix
crude iron
yeah i agree
icy temple
ofc i expect a fix
tight meteor
balance got a agi polearm
icy temple
quaint sequoia
ret didn't get fucked, paladins got a prot item simple as that
tight meteor
nothing in that says theyre fixing it
quaint sequoia
could have been a mace for us
civic palm
Been less than 24hrs, they will, if nothing else, make sure it doesn't do that again.
crude iron
its only horde also isnt it ?
civic palm
Was NA, got it on Alliance.
crude iron
yeah im eu alliance and im pretty sure there wasnt an equivalent for us
but idc
the only thing i care about atm is my 8% haste that make me want to kms lmao
tight meteor
yes
strange python
I didn't get a dagger from the wq just a chest was it eu only?
real socket
i will later tonight
frank aspen
Guys be honest. Should i reroll sub for higher output? Or will we be able to follow on the meters as assa?
sacred ore
guys does raidbots count the trinket's buff also? or only stats?
vestal wren
why would it ignore the trinket effect?
winter kindle
@urban storm we can buy 310/300 daggers? where? o:
lone junco
If we have any dev friends, lets have them change the double dose to a mut crit BB trait.
thanks.
I want BB back 😭
@vestal wren does the 3x Shroud (garrote) triple garrote in an opener on 3boss? or just garrote garrote rupture, blowing that 3rd?
id probably rather overcap and use that subterfuge open.
vestal wren
subterfuge tripple garrotes if you have 3 targets
lone junco
even with the overcap. good.
versed finch
Anyone saw anything saying that SS is getting fixed? I've been opting for other traits since it is broke
urban storm
@winter kindle from a blacksmith? Or the AH?
winter kindle
alrighty, thanks
last whale
They really screwed up Assa for pvp...
lunar garnet
My Kul Tiran Cannonball Runner proc doesn't seem to do any damage, someone has any information about it ?
lofty junco
SS onyl give 2 CP gives no dmg atm
high siren
@lunar garnet did you try on dummy ?
lunar garnet
Yes
lunar garnet
Alright i will bash some mob and see then, thank you !
Yeah, just doesn't seem to work on dummy, thanks @high siren
barren lotus
did it give 4cp with 2 stack on world mobs?
lofty junco
no only 2
merry orbit
snapshoting still working? on sin, in wow? I know it's still a thing on feral (was in legion) what is now with rogue ?
urban storm
Snapshotting is mostly gone
merry orbit
Ty
young narwhal
there is no find weakness in assa or am i wrong
fluid burrow
can anyone confirm that "Incessantly Ticking Clock" trinket is bugged and gives you 99 haste or mastery instead of the ~490 that says on the tooltip?
urban storm
Yea vanish would be part of rotation no matter which talent on that row is taken
robust owl
Have we recieved any word on if they will fix the dagger from yesterday's emissarys Weapon dps?
stiff niche
Ty all btw ! Second question: someone can pm me with Sap macro vs another rog in stealth?
inland path
why do people play sin still atm (not baiting/trolling just really curious)
kindred cedar
Since its still good
deft locust
sin is below sub but it's not bad
it's In like too 5 dps for 380 mythic parse, sub at 1 or 2
top 5*
deft locust
sin is also easier to play without much punishment and way more forgiving on boss fights with heavy mechanics
inland path
seems like sub is the obv choice since it is way better in keys
inland path
probably is that y
kindred cedar
Think will be gucci later again when haste goes up i Think
deft locust
but sin isn't going to be bad
fossil inlet
why even play sin when your best trait is not even working 
inland path
just doesnt make any sense to play sin atm ure just punishing ur self just bcuz its a bit easier to play its useless for keys imo when sub exists ;/
fossil inlet
IMO its a good time to switch to sub now. It's not that hard to learn
tropic osprey
Does 1 trait of SS grant garrote dmg? 😃
deft locust
same reason people played sub for a while early legion. people might just like sin more
maybe they just can't play sub
sacred ore
u are not loyal Evnz!
deft locust
a lot of reasons, I swapped to sub cuz its better, but it's good enough to still be okay
sin is way more appealing to me
i like bleeds
poisons
etc
subs kit is both dull in theme and lame to play
stiff niche
My opinion i like more sin and for mobs in istance etc i think crimson tempest is a good choice
deft locust
sins gameplay is dull tho. Ah. i miss old sub where they were a bleed snapshotting spec
bring me back to mop D:
versed finch
I would rather be a bleeding, poisoning machine than a naruto wannabe.
Plus, daggers on my back looks way more badass than on my hips
quartz marten
Is this assassination topic or "How sub is the best rogue spec, every rogue player should play sub" ?
versed finch
Apparently
kindred flame
FoTM
Like asking people that play feral, why are you playing feral when there better options...
hollow rose
whats the best weapon enchants for mainhand/offhand?
deft locust
well, i stated that sub is currently better but I've been defending sin if you read what I was saying:o
idk if that was directed at me tho
kindred flame
Refering to ballof
deft locust
gotcha
kindred flame
shit?
eager cobalt
Is Darkmoon Fathoms any good for sin?
I did check the pin
Thanks for the meme reply
ionic crown
apparently you didn't
urban storm
If only there were trinket ratings somewhere
urban storm
Someone should do that
wheat zealot
hoary copper
📌 are for 🥔 when you can get the 🥄
urban storm
And then put it somewhere that could be easily accessible
wheat zealot
I think you guys are on to something here
stiff niche
Darkmoon fathoms is still rly good
wild lagoon
Sin 4 life.
devout jolt
Sin since TBC
dire spoke
👀
versed finch
Fathoms doesnt look like it gets beat till like 375 or 380 ilvl gear
lime path
so I just talked to a GM
asked about the weapon bug hotfix
it's gonna be a while evidently
versed finch
Weapon bug?
maiden raptor
Quick Question. it's something i dont get tbh. Why is exsanguinate recommend and not toxic blade? I mean toxic blade doesn't look that bad to me or am i missing something here?
Wait as long as i keep my bleeds up the buff from exsanguinate stays up. Is that right?
strange python
where does it say exsang is recommended?
charred moat
Nowhere
velvet magnet
Which tier 3 talent do you guys feel plays the best in mythics so far? MfD sseems pretty nice for getting an early CT out, haven't tried much DS
strange python
With talent notation, such as 3210021, the zero means that row doesn't matter, not the first talent. In this example toxic blade is selected
right now with our haste levels we need vigor
I toyed around with MFD in the prepatch
but our energy regen was like 2x what it is now
velvet magnet
I've mostly been playing Sub but Mut is my baby and I keep switching back and forth
yeah, even with 16% haste it feels sloooow
lone junco
Ok.
fleet whale
#bringbackkingsbane
fleet whale
#addpassivecrittomut
lone junco
The azerite for mut poison application could be Mut crit buff.
fleet whale
or they could make poison wire way better
lone junco
It's not a raid line. Nbd
fleet whale
there are so many tweaks that I hope assassin gets in 8.1 but sadly I expect little
vapid moth
The garrote gives mute crit trait is stupid
lone junco
8k at 305. Outlaw cleave at 15k 7k overall. So I'm just swapping for bosses.
Fuck wq gates for progress btw.
fleet whale
they should make venomous wounds tick for 10 energy... haste and 5 less energy on mutilate is not enough
vapid moth
Nah. It is tbh
lone junco
Yeah. Mut reduction is complete dead trait for cleave.
vapid moth
I have 15% haste. 33% when all the buffs are up. Sin doesnt feel bad
lone junco
Multi garrote and rupture and FOK spam was nice.
fleet whale
I think it does... it's just really dull to me right now
lone junco
Single is ok now. Just hard to cleave as well as outlaw
fleet whale
plus we have dead noob trap talents like venom rush on the tree
vapid moth
What's weird is the fact that I'm already hitting 33% before first raid tier. Imagine how high it'll be during the last one
fleet whale
yeah, I think a lot of youtubers blew the lower secondary stat thing out of proportion
blissful crown
I just hate that everyone talks sublety that much up
i mean when i sim its only like 300 dps ahead of me in assa.
fleet whale
all three rogue specs are good in ST the issue is that sub and outlaw currently bring more to the table, I have no issue with players playing what they want though
blissful crown
Why do they bring more?
I mean i feel assa can be a bit clunky for AOE fights, but then again if u hit ur PBs then it still feels strong
lone junco
Raid and m+ are different beasts. The no gear swaps will change the meta. Hope sin has a nice for the high keys. But we'll see
royal lantern
most people just see ´´sub is better for m right now, sin is ded´´
blissful crown
True.
But i mean its not that its hard to just change since stats seems the same.
I'm just gonna see how specs perform in raids
open basin
does anyone else have the problem that absolutely no daggers drop whatsoever? not in wq's or dungeons
open basin
im running around with 290 stuff since i got 120
blazing raptor
Yeah. I got FW, Maces, Swords...
royal lantern
same
true ingot
I've not had any weapons period. Not just no daggers.
open basin
what the heck are we supposed to do then
royal lantern
but 4 wq gave me swords allready
blazing raptor
but, I did get lucky in my first heoric.. got Heart-Piecing Stalacite
open basin
thats really lucky because im spamming dungeons since 3 days and didnt get anything
lofty sand
I had to spam dungeons for days to get my daggers
open basin
nice one
ebon bramble
i cant believe outlaw is doing more single target than us D:
blazing raptor
I was about to switch to outlaw so i could use the weaps I had... i was rocking 260ish daggs
open basin
no dont go to the dark side
blazing raptor
no no, this saved me
I just started back in wow and this reminds me of the olden days
lofty sand
Are they?
ebon bramble
sims show that we scale really well tho, we go from below outlaw to above outlaw at 385
but thats farrrr away
lofty sand
I think assassination is usually the safer bet when it comes to pve, even if its not looking too great right now
ebon bramble
is it really that bad?
i feel like in m+ wher eyou cant pull giant groups, we can do pretty decent
true ingot
`I mean FoK and CT more than hold their own in aoe.
fleet whale
Sin lacks aoe that sub and outlaw currently bring, though it does get better if targets live long enough. It also is not too great at prio damage, and it's mobility is not as good either
true ingot
I can easily keep up with outluls, bladebros, paladingdongs, frostie boys and warlocks.
lofty sand
I don't think it is, but thats mostly my opinion its hard to say without any real content to test it out. But my personal experience is that I feel way more comfortable in Ass, so I tendo to perform better on it.
ebon bramble
i dont know
lofty junco
what ya guys used for expeditions? Sin feeled not right idk why. so ya used Sin, sub or RNGlaw?
ebon bramble
ive been able to keep up with aoe
as long as the targets live at least 20-30s long lol
little frigate
haha
fleet whale
yeah but there are a bunch of classes that have sick burst aoe
fleet whale
so trash packs are dying within seconds which is why sin should get better at high keys
ebon bramble
im guessing outlaw is pretty good burst too right?
fleet whale
yeah, with the new blade flurry and blade rush
ebon bramble
i havent kept up with outlaw changes, just focused on sin
but blade flurry is on a pretty long cooldown tho
past harbor
on 4+ targets with sin you spam fan of knives and crimson tempest?
ebon bramble
i doubt they can have it up every trash pull
true ingot
They get 2 charges of blade flurry and a third typically comes up as the second is expended
digital timber
can anyone see a problem with this macro:
#showtooltip ambush
/cast Pickpocket
/cast ambush
lofty sand
But isnt things that die in 5s seconds basically irrelevant content? I mean sometimes when I wanna feel good about my aoe I do my heroics with Outlaw, but in the end thats not really relevant content. When push comes to shove I much rather do them as assassination
lofty junco
ambush as Sin
digital timber
lol
for real though, even in my sin macro with shadowstrike it doesnt pickpocket beforehand
dark token
just realized i had 3x shrouded suffication in my 340s when i was playing outlaw
time to play sin?
lofty junco
what ya guys used for expeditions? Sin feeled not right idk why. so ya used Sin, sub or RNGlaw?
blazing raptor
have not been fortunate to run any IEs yet
lofty sand
I do outlaw most of the time, because its hard to get a re-stealth while running around with mobs
magic elk
I did the entire weeks worth with some friends yesterday and it really is a pain to re-stealth.
dire gazelle
I just have to say, I'm returning after being gone for over a decade, and it warms my heart to see that the Rogue community has carried on as the theorycrafting gods. 😃 ❤
barren tree
So Fathoms got a damage reduction correct ?
strange python
9%
supple hearth
It's still really good though if you got one.
strange python
How do you get contracts?
supple hearth
@strange python ah or inscription
strange python
(40k ATM)
supple hearth
Oh then you're dirt poor so a repair bill is stupid expensive probably
strange python
Yeet
sharp nova
What? Its 100g on TM
strange python
I'm on moblie and just learned about them
strange python
So I have no idea and thanks!
Does it matter which one I was think champions of azeroth
sharp nova
It does
Because it grants 5 rep for the faction you buy when doing any WQ
And yes, you should get champ. of azeroth
strange python
Sweet
dense yarrow
10 rep per WQ
strange python
Even better
sharp nova
Okay sorry, 10*
dense yarrow
😃
strange python
Im gonna see later what dungeons to prioritze for haste gear
I think waycrest has a nice ring if I recall
tawdry hatch
What is a good percentage for haste?
ebon bramble
100%
keen spruce
lofty junco
we need a bot that whisper people before they can ask xD people will get a whisper when the ywrite "dark moon" or fathoms in her chat xD
autumn robin
I'm replacing a trinket with the darkmoon deck, I have golden plumage and resonating heart with a socket which should i replace?
obsidian wadi
bomb or crimson for dungeons?
blissful crown
Am i looking the wrong place when Tisumi says Darkmoon is still top tier trinket?
Or am i reading the chart wrong
solid nova
Probably the 2nd option
blissful crown
Ahhh
First mate spyglass fx. needs to be 390
before its better than 355 Darkmoon
Right?
solid nova
You're definitely reading it wrong mate. The spyglass betters it way before then.
blissful crown
But then to my first question, why is Darkmoon praised to be that good? I mean Spyglass i got in WQ today at 330.
solid nova
Its top tier, it doesnt mean best.
Using the colour legend on the side
Everything beyond the line (and checking the corresponding item level) is better
As you can see, for a 355 trinket, it sims very well compared to most other trinkets.
Spyglass is another good example of a well simming 355 trinket
blissful crown
Yeah i see. So its still from top to bottom thats BiS? Its just confusing me. 😄
blissful crown
So a 330 spyglass, is not better than darkmoon if u use the colors?
solid nova
Follow the line from the darkmoon card and you can see what ilvl variants from other trinkets it compares to
solid nova
The spyglass is also 355 in that sense of sim equality
So you can see a 355 spyglass is better than the 355 darkmoon card.
That still means its top tier.
Top tier doesnt imply singular.
blissful crown
Yeah
Then i understand it, Darkmoon is better than 330 spy
But not better than 355 spy
solid nova
Correct
blissful crown
Thanks!
solid nova
Match the colour with the item level on the right hand side, and correspond that with the trinket name
Everything before the line is generically simming worse
Everything after, better.
blissful crown
Yes thanks!
solid nova
No sweat mate
barren tree
Can these trinket charts be exported into a spreadsheet ?
fast pond
in packs of 3 or more do i just spam crimson
ebon bramble
how are you guys doing so far in terms of DPS?
in mythics
im being told to try out sub for more dps and ive tried but it's not me D:
royal lantern
people that tell you too switch too class/spec XY at this point are probably just FotM players
ebon bramble
^
besides, i can somehow keep up DPS as long as there aren't like 6+ mobs that die in 10-15 seconds
but then again this is m0 lol which is the case right nwo XD
since we';ve all gotten some gear
royal lantern
sub/outlaw have more burst aoe wich is ofc better right now cus we can only do stuff where add groups die in 15sec anyway
ebon bramble
yup
also i run with a frost mage and DH ... tip obs
rip mobs
lol
i can compete in single target tho and boss fights with cleave like the duo bosses
i might try out outlaw and see if that helps out, outlaw isnt too bad for me. i just dont like how sub plays.
royal lantern
sin aoe is sustained, wich is better when stuff is alive for more then 4 sec cus a warrior is doing battlecry+bladestorm
ebon bramble
but im not sure out strong outlaw is for single target
royal lantern
and the first set of buff/nerfs is probably comming with the 1 raid, so nobody can really tell how stuff will turn out when m+ is out
little frigate
man, sub is so messy, or am i just bad
lofty sand
I don't think anyone should be worried about being outdpsed on aoe in Heroic/Mythic 0 dungeons. Its just not relevant content and a terrible measure for any dps
safe matrix
Sin scales really well with difficulty
shy mica
Sub isn't rly messy at all, need to get used to it
Try vigor if ur just larning it
learning
spring lantern
I was REALLY bad the first few dungeons I did as sub'
I mean I still am
but I was too
ebon bramble
how far behind is assass and outlaw compared to sub tho
spring lantern
Outlaw is pretty competitive from what I've heard and Ass isn't that far behind
OR won't be once gear gets better 
lofty sand
We should always be better in single target because of how assassination scales, we will be good in cleave where the mobs live long enough aka not heroic and mythic0. And we should always lose in huge aoe pulls where the trash doesn't last much
ebon bramble
i see
i feel like most raid bosses will have adds that dont die instantly, guess we'll be ok then haha
lean fox
Its really not that much different than Legion, Assassination was always behind on low-end content where stuff died instantly. We'll be k
ebon bramble
and affliction will be king once more
thin ingot
sin feels so weird with no haste
strange python
The ring from the tree boss in waycrest is helpful
lofty sand
I actually miss the mastery build in Legion. I don't like haste too much
strange python
And the dagger in tol dar
Same
It felt like I was relying on my poisons to do the work
I kind liked that tbh
royal lantern
the mastery build was strong cus poisonbomb was overloaded dmg wise
and haste was a dead stat
strange python
I miss agonizing poison
thin ingot
i hated that shit lol
i feel like...in best case scenario when expansion is about to end and were fully azerite geared and shit, classes are still going to play a bit worse than at legion end expansion
they were so smoooth
all of them
every class felt good
(if you had all leggos ofcorse)
strange python
I've been liking the plauge bombs from engineering
thin ingot
yeah
like at 340 now you get a decent amount of secondary stats
and for example at 450 youre getting a bunch of agility and almost a negible amount of secondaries
ebon bramble
damn
thin ingot
so, youre just going to equip whats higher ilvl, almost everytime
ebon bramble
wait that means we wont be getting like 20% haste even?
thin ingot
preach made a really good video explaining how the scaling works
no one can tell you right now how much haste were going to be able to hoarde
but youre just going to go for ilvl at higher ranks
of gear
ebon bramble
damn
strange python
Has anyone else been using these
spring lantern
we fixed now https://imgur.com/a/dpaDCQj
thin ingot
so, speaking for the current content and first raid tier
do you see sin able to compete with the other rogue specs?
im at 20k reforging and just want a second opinion lol
strange python
Reforging?
strange python
Oo
strange python
Oh where is the reforger?
spring lantern
At the transmogger's
pulsar goblet
No one has any idea, there will be tuning before Mythic release and it will continue. Assassination could become the most op spec in the whole game or it could be unplayable
thin ingot
strange python
thin ingot
playing a rogue has its downsides in bfa
takes me 30 minutes to complete a WQ cause everytime y see an alliance bronie i just go for the kill
then get camped
strange python
Oh
strange python
I thought you were going to say trying to fight two mobs
thin ingot
lol
urban storm
Saying rogues are in a bad spot because you’re using an optional system that you have total control over is crazy
You could also stealth away
lofty sand
Assassination has been a good raiding spec since ever, I don't think its ever going to change. By design it works well ST
strange python
You know we are joking around right
thin ingot
i didnt say theyre weak at wpvp either
i just like killing dudes minding their own buisness
and spamming emotes
on their bodies
strange python
I like ganking a 113 and dying lol
thin ingot
and the classic "kekeke"
thin ingot
im going to play a vulpiran rogue just to piss off ppl
thin ingot
idk, but they did fix the dagger in the back trait
chilly oasis
lofty sand
its bad luck to go against the dice
mossy flicker
in which hand should be the best dagger ?^^
sick yoke
yeah^ can someone explain/link somethign about that. i didn't find anything about whats better and what has effect on performance for offhands and mainhands etc. really confuses me tbh
lament dove
ok, so here's an interesting thing to that question:) I have the honorbound dagger in 345, and have another one in 340. both for sub and assa I sim better if I put the 340 dagger in the main hand... why?
civic palm
Put it in your hand...
wtf is the problem here?
If you still think that there is something weird there, go and SIM it...
heavy dagger
great dc blizz, and thanks for fucking up the dagger after an hotfix......
they just fix he dagger after dc its bk to being bugged....
candid phoenix
i m so happy blizzard listens to the community after so many years
bugs being hotfixed so fast makes me so happy
strange python
have they never hotfixed anything before
candid phoenix
they never hotfixed stuff so fast as they do now
and no jordan, the dagger had caster dps numbers
opaque tree
oh shit lol
candid phoenix
it had 69 dps
opaque tree
wait so is it pulling ahead of Shrouded Suffocation now?
candid phoenix
instead of 128
kindred cedar
Honorbound Dagger fixed now
candid phoenix
i havent checked jordan not yet
opaque tree
I was using a chest with dagger in the back and when I got up to 4 stacks it didn't seem to increase any damage from 1-4 stacks.. just refreshed the duration.. that was it.
candid phoenix
and Blizzard used to do hotfixes during maintenance, now they are more active and do daily hotfixes. took them 14 years to start caring about their community
better late than never
errant oak
hey guys im new to rogue, been playing sub this whole time, but i was curious about sin
ive heard a lot of poo pooin about nerfs to sin, but i havent seen any since prepatch
could someone elaborate on their current state? pvp and pve wise?
errant oak
ahh
candid phoenix
so it comes down to personal preferance really
i love Assa personally, i dont like sub as it is now
errant oak
i see, i quite enjoyed the burst on demand and mobility of sub, so sin is taking me some time to adapt to
ah, could you explain your love for assa so i may get a better understanding of what to look forward to?
candid phoenix
i like that assa is panic free
u can relax as assa, drink coffee, smoke ur cigarette 😄
errant oak
lmao
candid phoenix
but it needs practise
errant oak
right, that whcih i lack most lol
errant oak
oh i see
candid phoenix
Assa right now is all about envenom uptime
refreshing it on the proper time
and not panicly overlapping it
errant oak
with how much time remaining to do you try to refresh it?
candid phoenix
u only spam envenom during BL cus u cant spend ur energy if u dont spam Muti/envenom
preferably around 0.7-1 sec
errant oak
oh ok gotcha
candid phoenix
with our current haste we cant keep 100% uptime on the buff
i got 15% haste and my uptime best was 80%
errant oak
you in my past i played aff lock, and i realize dot management is not the easiest thing in the world for me, do you have a special way to track dots?
errant oak
different playstyles i imagine
candid phoenix
even since preparation was removed
i feel Assa is better for pvp
cus of poisons
but i can be wrong
errant oak
when was preparation removed?
candid phoenix
i wasnt playing rogue as a main in legion. just an alt and i was playing assa
no idea if sub had prep in legion
errant oak
ya me either, but i was looking forward to using it too
candid phoenix
i remember sub having it in wod
primal lance
Anyone wanna share their ui in here? Mine is terrible and wanna improve it
jovial kite
classic ui 🤷
slender peak
So was the honor bound dagger EU only? Havent seen anything on US side
swift skiff
I keep hearing sub is better for dungeon but im topping charts as sin, and i like the playstyle, and i can only imagine it gets better with haste
the new tier 100 talent is great, esp cuz poison bomb feels weak without my leggo shoulders
mystic elbow
Did any of you lvl as ass?
debating on which best spec lvl as or if doesnt even matter
silk jolt
mixed ol and sin
mystic elbow
any preference? gonna run out 110-120 2nite
mystic elbow
i can play, just was wondering what felt better lvling lol
silk jolt
prefer sin for pvp
well if you have warmode on there will be a lot of world pvp
and sin is good for that i think
main rain
Had the same experience, tried both and enjoyed sin much more
mystic elbow
ya ya
round ledge
How do you guys feel about assassination at a competitive level for dungeons? Obviously hard to tell this early on, but I keep hearing that outlaw/sub are better than sin - but my experience so far has been that sin's performed better, and I only see it going up as we progress. Thoughts would be appreciated! Trying to decide if I should learn sub/consider switching before M+ comes out
royal lantern
sub/outlaw have more burst aoe
royal lantern
sin is sustained aoe, if stuff is alive for more then a few seconds the aoe is good enough
round ledge
so basically sub/out are better for m0 - but it's likely sin will be better (or at least compete) in m+?
dark isle
Sin is also much more forgiving, it's the Beast Mastery of rogues.
royal lantern
outlaw exsist, the spec that has melee attacks as 2 or 3 highest dmg source
i fall asleep when playing outlaw
round ledge
yeah I gave outlaw a shot but it's so boring lmao
royal lantern
rng roll until you get the 2good buffs or 2 buffs at once
round ledge
press the flashing lights :^)
royal lantern
sinester strike>dmg finisher>use pistol shot proc if you dont overcap
idk, thats lame as hell but thats just my opinion
silk jolt
Most specs are simplified these days
royal lantern
ik, there is no class that is REALLY hard too play
the difficulty comes with the fights, not from the class gameplay
round ledge
yeah, most of them have a base thing you need to master and past that it's a simple rotation
just as you said, most of the skill comes from the fights and planning your cds around different things lmao
short oak
hey guys does anyone have any idea which spec is on top atm?
silk jolt
No
round ledge
^
short oak
ok tysm x
teal ingot
Elaborate Planning or Master Poisoner? ive see youtube videos that say both. and the Ravenholdt guide says Elaborate Planning. is it gear or situation dependent?
little frigate
i think they're both very close with MP taking over at very high mastery values. Right?
void pecan
Do as your sims say
teal ingot
I know I should take what the sims say but i think its also good to understand why the sims says it. instead of blindly following the sim with not reasoning behind it.
dense yarrow
Anyone know if assa has a haste cap yet?
dapper plover
are sins dots snapshotable?
little frigate
not snapshotable afaik
lone junco
@dense yarrow
bloodmallet has 3d charts of the max dps given a certain ilvl. in 10
% increments.
and given certain talents
.
so no. there isnt a haste cap that you have to worry about.
dense yarrow
Ah nice tyy
unborn vapor
For those of you at 330ish ilvl what levels are your haste at?
ebon bramble
i highly doubt we'll ever reach a haste cap
lofty sand
@unborn vapor I'm 331 and I have 12% right now. But a lot of my gear doesn't have haste.
strange python
14% at 337 but I should drop some since my weights are going down
grim sail
herodamage only shows 325 and 340 right? Just sim it
alpine oxide
yeah i simmed it lads its about the same
i just couldnt find any info on the trinket
had a feeling it was straight dogshit
slender spear
hey guys had a question about shrouded suffocation stacking... will it be 5 combo with 2
civic palm
no
strange python
the trait still gives me no dmg gain
i can replace the chest with same ilvl chest and other trait
garrote does exact the same shit amount of dmg
normal forge
Whats the best darkmoon card?
lofty sand
I thought there was only one for melee dps or dps in general
lusty schooner
I thought the ticking clock trinket was broken, or is it just a typo in the buff
normal forge
O shii fathoms is so cheap too
slender hare
Yeah, preferred artifact where we didn’t have to care about weapon drop
teal ingot
any point in pickpocketing in bfa
alpine oxide
class fantasy immersion
bright wasp
How many ilvls would you consider the garrote trait is worth?
civic palm
Depends on how much DPS Agility gives you.
strange python
xD
civic palm
You can check HeroDamage for how much each rank of SS should give you, then just figure out if the AGI is higher or lower than that.
ezpz
bright wasp
I mean, would you keep it over a 15 ilvl upgrade?
tight meteor
youre gonna have to sim to see
civic palm
Without telling you to just go and SIM it >_>
bright wasp
Ah ok, thanks.
civic palm
Figure out how much DPS 15 item levels worth of AGI is giving you, check the chart for how much w/e rank of SS you are getting will give you.
acoustic spoke
What do you guys run in mythics, PB or is Tempest worth it?
bleak rivet
I like PB better but tempest is probably better
crimson turtle
@teal ingot I think it is as @little frigate says, they are very close but (at least from what I've observed) almost every piece of gear now comes with Mastery and I believe with high Mastery MP will take the lead. I personally sim better with MP and I use it also because I feel it gives me more consistent and sustainable damage; I may of course be wrong - please let me know if I am 😃
acoustic spoke
Im not really sure, kinda like just keeping PB on, also not sure if I use tempest if you keep it up on st or not
also dont know if anyone is using blindside compared to ep cause it seems like kind of a pain to keep up
or I just straight up cant keep it up enough, or dont feel like I can
urban storm
yeah CT seems difficult to keep up
or things die too quickly
cuz you want to get garrotes + ruptues
quartz ginkgo
Until you get the ruptures rolling the energy feels too lacking as well to get ct going
bleak rivet
Crimson is also useless on ST
PB is useful on both ST and AoE
that's why I run it, it's versatile despite the RNG
crimson turtle
I agree with @bleak rivet
acoustic spoke
err I meant ep difficult to keep up
bleak rivet
EP is great on AoE
but on ST it's ok, master poisoner or blindside are probably better
acoustic spoke
yeah but then considering most of dungeon are trash anyways I should just keep EP right
bleak rivet
Yea
Pure single target fights it falls a little behind if you have low haste
but EP is the most versatile of the 15 talents imo
MP is kinda gear dependent and Blindside is only good on ST
acoustic spoke
I just see it as running ST sub build in dungeons
no point really, its not needed
bleak rivet
I mean kinda, but assassination doesn't funnel targets like sub
assassination can actually aoe decently if targets live long, sub relies on Sec Tec
and then they just funnel
crimson turtle
generally I feel like now at the dungeons-only time of the xpac pure ST builds fall a bit behind
bleak rivet
yeah, which is why i dislike sub despite sec tec being a thing
I would rather just play outlaw
crimson turtle
funnel? sorry Eng not my native language what do you mean by this?
bleak rivet
focusing on one target
crimson turtle
oh thanks!
acoustic spoke
Storm generates cp based on targets hit, but sectec has cd
marsh wharf
outlaw feels more useful than sub for mythics
bleak rivet
yea
acoustic spoke
so you end up funneling 1 target with storm + evis
bleak rivet
I've been playing only outlaw for hte most part
marsh wharf
same
acoustic spoke
If I had weps I would
bleak rivet
IT's in a really good spot rn
Until mythic+ and raids come out I'll start playin sin more
acoustic spoke
I got 2 daggers today almost back to back so I dont think Im gonna see outlaw weapons anytime soon
bleak rivet
rip
I got an axe from a world quest
SO I just used that and a dagger
since you can off-hand dagger just fine
bleak rivet
I've been just seeing cloaks lately lol
crimson turtle
man, I drop only azerite chests from the bosses, I have like 10 of them
bleak rivet
rings are also pretty common
crimson turtle
and WQs give me useless legs or boots
bleak rivet
for me
btw why haven't they fixed shrouded suffocation yet?
but they fix dagger
yikes
crimson turtle
how does it need a fix?
bleak rivet
the extra damage does not proc
crimson turtle
but the CPs are in order I guess
oh definitely more dmg would be nice after all it says so in the description 😛
I didnt even notice the dmg lack tbh
does it mean Im stupid or what
crimson turtle
I mean I check my meters but it seems not as carefully as to determine the dmg lack from this passive :/
bleak rivet
not a huge deal, im just a numbers freak
crimson turtle
No wonders, given the requirements you need to meet with some people to even be considered6 for the group or smth
bleak rivet
yeah