assassination

[lime path]

okay I was wondering why

[safe matrix]

And rupture has the same energy cost, so you generally don't want to lowball it

[lime path]

but if the dps per point is uniform, then yeah

just duration manipulation

[safe matrix]

If you snapshot it with something you wanna max it out and let it run

Same with garrote

[lime path]

you guys snapshot? thought that was kitty only at this point

aside from the double dmg on garrote coming out of stealth

what snapshots

[safe matrix]

Only subterfuge snaps garrote and NS snaps rupture/garrote

[strange python]

he means nightstalker/subterfuge. Not a snapshot per se, just how the mechanic works.

[lime path]

would it work off shadowmeld the same way?

I assume?

[safe matrix]

No

[strange python]

nope. That would be broken.

[warm parcel]

Except ferals can

[lime path]

heh, cats get to shadowmeld rake for double rake dmg

[warm parcel]

Cause blizz

[safe matrix]

Shadowmeld only allows access to stealth abilities but it's not a true stealth for rogues

[lime path]

hey, we gotta have something XD

[warm parcel]

Tldr

We have partials too

[lime path]

mkay

[warm parcel]

We care bout pandemic. And it scales with cps just like rip

[lime path]

Sorry to ask such basic bitch questions, I know you must be tired of answering them at this point. But just trying to pick up rogue for bfa since Kitties always get shafted super hard.

[warm parcel]

Were just a superior feral

[lime path]

damage aside, it's the raid utility that really gives yall a spot

[strange python]

never played feral. Partials?

[lime path]

cheat death, feint, cloak of negate mechanics, are all fucking amazing

[warm parcel]

Any dot has partials

Nothing of importance if you dont know about them

[safe matrix]

Cloak of ignore mechanics*

[lime path]

our partials are gonna matter a bit more now that we have hasted bleeds finally

[safe matrix]

Cloak of uptime also works too

[warm parcel]

Why would they tho

[strange python]

still dont know what they are

[warm parcel]

You dont have even regen on ticks like we do

[lime path]

we used to with certain set bonuses

and current set bonuses give chance for extra finisher ticks on tick

[warm parcel]

Yea well for prepatch you still care

[lime path]

you guys also get passive cp gen off nearby crits right

[warm parcel]

But nothing in bfa yet

[lime path]

we get TF though

so a spike in energy on demand, vs passive energy gen

that also buffs/snapshots

off the GCD

[safe matrix]

no the nearby crits is pvp only

[lime path]

oh lame

got super excited for a sec

[safe matrix]

we have this though

its why mut does 2-4

[warm parcel]

Same as feral

[lime path]

we have that too

[warm parcel]

Except feral is +1 only

[lime path]

except +1

[safe matrix]

and fok scales to infinite

right

[lime path]

now that AF is gone, we have nothing that gens multiple cps in one global

[safe matrix]

1+fok crits

[lime path]

what I really like about sin so far

is the versatility of your final tier

hidden blades seems memeworthy with that warmode talent that gives 50% dmg but

[strange python]

I miss kingsbane

[lime path]

poison bomb and crimson seem really good at their own ST or AoE

but poison bomb seems like it would be okay on aoe too

[strange python]

so yeah, then why does the guide say ~6 seconds instead of 5.4?

[lime path]

where as cats have to choose between aoe and ST

without any overlap anymore

oh, don't change it because of my nitpicking

I was just confused for a sec

[warm parcel]

I dno why it says so

[lime path]

xD sorry

[safe matrix]

I mean, theres no real good true single target talent at 100 though

[warm parcel]

It should be 5.4

I dno :D

[lime path]

is blindside the replacement builder at execute sequence?

[warm parcel]

Yes n no

[lime path]

or still use it with mut

to manipulate cps without overcapping

[safe matrix]

which guide

[warm parcel]

Naa not that

[safe matrix]

the bfa one says "Rupture – refresh with less then ~5-7 seconds remaining."

which arguably is even worse

[warm parcel]

If you ever spec VR on 90 you dont BS in execute

But shouldnt spec vr anyway

[lime path]

oh VR over Toxic Blade?

interesting

[civic palm]

...

[lime path]

what's the napkin math reason behind that? seems like ability hits hard as balls and the 9s window of envenom boost

[warm parcel]

It was a 2 part comment m8

[strange python]

it doesnt imply vr is better

[lime path]

10% energy refund worth that much?

[warm parcel]

But shouldnt spec vr anyway

[lime path]

oh he said shouldn't

I can't fucking read

[warm parcel]

Unless youre just lazy

[lime path]

ignore me

I need glasses

I swear to god

[warm parcel]

I mean you can go all passive if you dont care for dps

But vr is just bad rn

[lime path]

I would never take the ez way out

I mean I main feral ffs

xD

[warm parcel]

Ooh. Sounds like exsang case then

[strange python]

Feral plays with saber tho

[warm parcel]

Most people cant even use exsang

[lime path]

it doesn't

saber is only simming close right now cuz of incomplete tuning

[strange python]

It did last time in sims

[lime path]

feral has returned to normal

sims aren't even ready for 120 profile last I checked

for kitty anyway

[warm parcel]

Ye ours arent either

[lime path]

7.3.5 braindead kitty is gone

kitty is back to normal

[strange python]

Well w/e the 120 heroic profile is

[lime path]

pooling, bt, etc

[strange python]

Plays saber

Unless it was changed in these past 2 days

[lime path]

Yeah, that's not right. Saber shouldn't be simming close, if it is, then that's just bad tuning/design by blizz and will likely be fixed soon.

But it wouldn't surprise me at this point

[strange python]

Why

[lime path]

have you guys seen the meme APLs?

for Demon Hunter and Enhance?

[strange python]

It makes sense

[warm parcel]

Is that actual inside info or just speculation 👀

[lime path]

Smarter math kitties than I have said something similar

[warm parcel]

Ah

Well. Could happen then

[lime path]

sabertooth doesn't make much sense design wise to be doing as much as the other talent in the tier. Given that they returned us to the bleed and pool style, gave hasted bleeds, and have lowered the value of direct damage a fuck ton

bite spamming is counter intuitive with all the reversions

for SBT to sim close, is just bad tuning/design on blizzard's end. I suspect the gap will grow further in time.

[strange python]

Obviously with more stats

[warm parcel]

Wouldnt mind that tbh

[strange python]

Saber falls behind

[lime path]

but I digress

[warm parcel]

I like good dot feral

[strange python]

But were talking release

[lime path]

yeah, numbers are in flux right now anyway, I wouldn't worry about sims until at least the first round of tuning for mythic release

didn't they just smack rogues with a -4% anyway?

[warm parcel]

[civic palm]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[warm parcel]

[civic palm]

Whatever that was meant to accomplish.

Was it designed to spook us?

[warm parcel]

A nerf dor 120

Naa

[lime path]

Probably just trying to balance

[civic palm]

Of course.

[warm parcel]

They just made up a pr reason of "prepatch"

Then "forget" to buff back

[safe matrix]

cant have a rogue spec being number one

[civic palm]

Yeah I made the comment when it came up, the wording is poor.

[lime path]

Well, it's easier to shave one spec/class down by 4% than to buff all the others to compensate

sucks

[civic palm]

Yep.

[lime path]

but it happens

[warm parcel]

Its still fine

Rogue just has that kit

[strange python]

Watch out u gonna trigger RH, half of the people here think the 4% wont carry to BFA

[lime path]

I don't think rogues will ever have to worry about a raidspot tbh

raid utility is just too good

[warm parcel]

So for proge itll always be fine

[civic palm]

At least it's not -27% Blackout Kick > _>"

[warm parcel]

[safe matrix]

nah rogues are fine still 4% is meh

[civic palm]

It could have been -10% and I don't think that it would matter.

[warm parcel]

10%

[civic palm]

Matter is the wrong word there.

[lime path]

I mean they reworked us completely and gave us a 33% baseline dmg boost in 7.3.5 and we were still middle of the pack. You'll live with -4% just fine xD

[safe matrix]

i just dont want them to touch shroud, I wanna be top tier for m+ ._.

[civic palm]

That would hold a clear intention but I doubt it would make us so much worse that we end up losing much.

[warm parcel]

Assa still just fits proge so well

[civic palm]

Yeah.

[warm parcel]

Dots, can now even aoe spam

[lime path]

At least the tuning was done after live

[warm parcel]

Doesnt die

[civic palm]

The kit and damage profile just fits with progression and staying alive.

[safe matrix]

mobility

[lime path]

most of the nerfs some people deal with are done the week before it goes out xD

the most royal of all cockblocks

[warm parcel]

Has no cdr on resource spending so no compounding penalties

Like dance in sub

[safe matrix]

can generally have high uptime cause mobility/defensives

[nimble tartan]

now tell me why outlaw is good weak

[civic palm]

Yeah holding 3 dances for 20 seconds O _O

ahhhh

[warm parcel]

No strict sequences

[nimble tartan]

because outlaw are chads

[strange python]

OL is a meme

[warm parcel]

OL can mog new teebu

[nimble tartan]

we got big swords

[warm parcel]

[civic palm]

SHIT they can.

[lime path]

At least your guys cooldowns matter >.>

[civic palm]

They can also mog the new meat cleaver.

[warm parcel]

Naa m8

Subs cd

[nimble tartan]

see ya later sin

[lime path]

my 3min CD does .2% damage over not using it at all on a 5min fight >.<

[safe matrix]

what cds

[warm parcel]

Is still among the worst in game

[lime path]

nelf racial does 2%, berserk does .2%

feelsbadman

[warm parcel]

Yee

Its not feral case

But man sb sucks too

[safe matrix]

atleast shadowblades is better now

[warm parcel]

Still feels bad

So short

[lime path]

That's my go to mantra for all my alt classes when people complain about cd's lol. At least it's not feral >.<

[safe matrix]

its not terribad on live

[civic palm]

Least it's not fucking Ghostly Strike.

[safe matrix]

cause you can pop it with a fully stacked cloak and feel good about yourself

[warm parcel]

[strange python]

What do you mean

[warm parcel]

GS

[strange python]

Feral has TF

[warm parcel]

5/5

[safe matrix]

before you realise you're now locked into cloak for that m+

[lime path]

why did they do the whole m+ gearlocking to begin with?

seems like it only served to piss everybody off

[warm parcel]

I still believe its better overall

[civic palm]

To force you to find the best solution for the dungeon and key.

[lime path]

especially the classes that don't have strong ST/AoE overlap, who were forced to choose hard between talents/leggos

[warm parcel]

Change my mind

[civic palm]

and not just spam gear swaps.

[warm parcel]

^

[civic palm]

You're going to be bad at something, period.

Get over it.

I say bad but... subpar?

[lime path]

I mean, pure dps classes tend not to be bad at too much at any given time

[warm parcel]

[lime path]

but I get what you mean

[warm parcel]

Well

[civic palm]

Some are just much better at AoE than ST, etc.

[warm parcel]

Lets look at assa

[safe matrix]

also it puts an unfair advantage for classes that only need gear swaps vs classes that need talent swaps between builds

[warm parcel]

If m+ actually had proper roles

[vernal atlas]

Has to do with the competitiveness of m+, especially for esports. Like it or not but under that perspective it makes sense

[warm parcel]

Assa would be an amazing st monster

[civic palm]

I am still bummed that bosses are not "harder".

[warm parcel]

And youd have a boomkin to destroy trash

[civic palm]

or more important, I suppose.

[warm parcel]

You could then have someones role be purging/stunning

By limiting on the fly swaps you could potentially open up proper roles

But that requires dev effort

In legion that wouldnt work

[lime path]

I mean balancing everything around M+ esports is silly. They could just as easily add an aura or affix that prevents gearswapping as an additional penalty when they do competitions

[civic palm]

Let's hope people go that way and not just take what is generally best.

[vernal atlas]

Yah but thats the idea

[lime path]

they don't have to cuck everybody else

[warm parcel]

Due to shit dungeon design

[nimble tartan]

im glad they removing gear swaps

[safe matrix]

also I think theres a lot less one shot mechanics too which was a concern, cause soe classes needed to swap gear to survive

[civic palm]

The thing with balancing for MDI is that in this specific case balancing for the sub 1% doesn't hurt people under them.

Because everything scales, all the way up.

[nimble tartan]

i liked doing hella damage as sub swapping from aoe gear to st and swapping around 5 sets of legendaries but like i dont mind that its gone

i just wanna play WOW

and not use me BRAIN

[civic palm]

Also IIRC the gigaPulls are gone for now.

As things are a lot more dangerous.

At least for now.

[vernal atlas]

They do, since potentially everybody can participate in m+ seasons. Therefore same rules for all and everywhere only makes sense

[lime path]

gear will always affect that

gigapulls will return unless they tune M+ with every tier of gear

[warm parcel]

@nimble tartan turns out TA was adds after all

[nimble tartan]

ohwhat the HECK

[warm parcel]

#tc-research

[nimble tartan]

ye i just read that

[civic palm]

They seem to be interested in investing more in the season to season changes in M+.

[safe matrix]

1T add cleave?

[civic palm]

1T+cleave yeah

Otherwise the ENV trait would still be higher.

[lime path]

the problem is, certain classes are always going to be cockblocked out of m+ to some degree

[civic palm]

Possibly.

[nimble tartan]

tfw the alliance version of the same trait sims higher than horde

[strange python]

Like feral

[nimble tartan]

WE SWITCHIN

[strange python]

Omegalul

[lime path]

hell I had to tank/heal/boomy for 1/3rd off the expac before people would see my +20 keys as feral and let me be a cat

xD

[civic palm]

Yeah.

[lime path]

spriests too, got shafted hard

[nimble tartan]

i need my 8 dps

[civic palm]

Feral is annoying in that case, very true.

[lime path]

until that helmet glitch

[vernal atlas]

Yah I feel like they try to push m+ as much as possible.
I mean, no more tier sets and rewards that can be equally to mythic raiding gear

[lime path]

frontloaded aoe burst classes were always going to be favored

given the design of m+

[warm parcel]

Naa

[lime path]

the exception being tyrannical weeks with 20+

[civic palm]

Until the very high keys where that burst dries up.

and shit like SIN wins.

[safe matrix]

until high keys

[warm parcel]

Bfa m+ can and will be different

[lime path]

yeah, that's what I mean

[strange python]

Tier just got replaced with azerite

Same thing

[safe matrix]

yeah then sin rogues like sel overtook sub rogues

[warm parcel]

People have really said you can mongo anymore

[civic palm]

The damage coming out of dungeons is scary now.

[strange python]

Nothing changed

[warm parcel]

And infect still shuffles stuff too

[lime path]

I mean cc still exists

[civic palm]

Sure.

[lime path]

packs can just be pulled smaller and smaller as needed

[safe matrix]

infested is basically tailor made for sub though

[lime path]

and potentially kited if slows are stacked strongly enough like with frost mages

[civic palm]

or just SIN

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[warm parcel]

Or assa

[civic palm]

:3

[lime path]

infested seems like it would just require you to sheep/trap/sap the infested mob and pull eveyrthing else

[safe matrix]

sin at higher crit probably

[vernal atlas]

Remember that bfa dungeons way much more designed with m+ in mind. Meaning there will be less stupid modifiers that make some dungeons close to impossible

[civic palm]

Once we're FoKkking for 4CP O _O

[warm parcel]

Sub can destroy infest tho

[safe matrix]

point generation with fok is gonna be spotty for a while

[warm parcel]

Sub is literally designed to delete them

[civic palm]

O _O

[warm parcel]

Im bit more excited for bfa m+

[civic palm]

Yeah.

[warm parcel]

Hope turns out not another maw fiesta

[civic palm]

I am not sure it can given layouts.

Well some can.

[lime path]

I'm not looking forward to having to play boomy or tank/heal until the high keys

but other than that

I genuinely liked m+

[warm parcel]

You never know about blizz

[safe matrix]

well they're actually putting a lot of effort ito m+ once theyve seen how big it was

[warm parcel]

They managed to design legos

And early 7.0

[civic palm]

Well it's actually competitive PVE.

[lime path]

They let the diablo team take over tho

[civic palm]

That sustains.

[lime path]

and the diablo team is poops

hence the whole legion leggo system

[civic palm]

I will trade leggos for getting WQ though.

[safe matrix]

and m+

[civic palm]

Yarrr

[safe matrix]

easy trade

[civic palm]

Though that's not MUCH like Diablo Rifts.

Close enough though.

Repeatable, scaling PVE content.

Without the horseshit that are rifts even.

[vernal atlas]

I honestly hated legendaries. And I am also not sad that tsets are gone and m+ becomes a full worthy endgame option

[safe matrix]

Some affixes were aids though

[civic palm]

I am more curious about the seasonal affixes.

[lime path]

Scumbag rogues, having leggos for 6/8 expansions. 😛

[civic palm]

Than the weekly ones.

[strange python]

Tier sets= azerite

[civic palm]

OI... too bad :3

[strange python]

How is it any different?

[civic palm]

Tier sets are not azerite get that bullshit out of here.

[warm parcel]

[civic palm]

I will just work on getting you banned for being a moron and trying to troll.

[vernal atlas]

Its not bound to raids! That is the difference

[ionic crown]

send him to the gulag

[warm parcel]

Chill bois

[civic palm]

It also doesn't lock you out of 3 other pieces to upgrade.

[lime path]

what's the incentive to raid if no tier? high ilvl gear than M+? or just prestige/trinkets?

[civic palm]

There's also no set bonuses.

[strange python]

Yeh gl with the 1% from weekly chest

[civic palm]

etc etc etc

[safe matrix]

raid for content and gear 🤷

[warm parcel]

Big dick title

And that world rank

[safe matrix]

mounts

[civic palm]

Different traits possibly.

[safe matrix]

trinkets

[ionic crown]

who only raids for set bonuses 🤔

[civic palm]

They made mention that they are planning on designing some traits that are similar to legendary bonuses.

[vernal atlas]

I did

[warm parcel]

Eeh

Blizz has promised a lot of shit

[strange python]

And now u do it for azerite

No difference

[civic palm]

It's development, they don't promise anything.

[warm parcel]

Id use a grain of

[civic palm]

They have intention of getting something done.

and work towards it.

[safe matrix]

I havent looked too hard into azerite, how hard does it spec lock you?

[warm parcel]

Hard

[safe matrix]

yikes

[civic palm]

Depends.

[warm parcel]

Just farm several pieces

[vernal atlas]

Don't like raiding. Too many people who can mess up your run. M+ I do with my Group of good players and get that sweet 385 gear

[civic palm]

Some traits that are winning are not spec specific.

[warm parcel]

Per slot

[civic palm]

THey can't WF so every piece that drops is worth the same as the last.

the traits are not random so you can target rolls, etc.

[safe matrix]

that was so stupid about third tier relic traits being random

[civic palm]

Yarrr

[safe matrix]

and that you couldnt check them before making soulbound

[civic palm]

As much as AA might lock you into something if you get a piece that has good traits for one spec and not another, I am not sure how much that actually changed.

Though you still cannot trade AA gear so fuck you I guess.

[warm parcel]

Ill judge aa when I actually get them

Havent even given it a second thought

[civic palm]

I mean we have the sims to see how much better 1 trait is over another.

[warm parcel]

Yea. Lets not look at those numbers

Theyre so incomplete

Some are still nyi

[civic palm]

But yeah I have 0 thoughts on giving a shit about being forced one way or the other considering there's generic traits and spec specific but nothing missing from them.

Yeah they're... preliminary.

[warm parcel]

And some were recently hotfixed to not be as strong in pve

[civic palm]

ha

[warm parcel]

So theres that aswell

[civic palm]

I am curious how much they will stop you from using an item level upgrade.

I assume the intention is no more than 10 item levels so people actually use new gear.

[lime path]

oh god this order hall of yours is so confusing

[civic palm]

,<

[warm parcel]

What order hall

[civic palm]

Dunno.

[hybrid quarry]

What is an order hall

[civic palm]

I just buy cheese and get my missions from him.

Also we have like 3 rooms HOW is that confusing?

[lime path]

day one rogue bro, this shit all looks the same right now

[civic palm]

Sure as well.

[ionic crown]

mage order hall is bad

[hybrid quarry]

How tf does it all look the same

None of the rooms are anything alike

[civic palm]

Mage hall actually cancer.

It all looks the same like how all black people kinda look the same before you see enough of them to beat back your racial blindness.

[hybrid quarry]

Only one I had a problem with. But 3 days playing mage and I understand it ez

[warm parcel]

Mage is nice cause tp there

Try lock halls

Jesus

[hybrid quarry]

Lock is ez

[civic palm]

Yeah sure but it's just barely too large to not have a mount in.

[shrewd pine]

Lock can at least mount.

[civic palm]

Sure you have blink but... still.

[nimble tartan]

this is why i chose to be a meme and only play outlaw for bfa no matter waht

so i can stress about 1 spec only

ty

[civic palm]

Rogue OH is a fucking HALLWAY.

[ionic crown]

with a smaller, secret hallway on the side

[civic palm]

and a tunnel to fall to your death from.

[nimble tartan]

well what are sewers but tunnels and hallways

[shrewd pine]

DH hall best hall

[nimble tartan]

we knew what we signed up for

ew no dh is so ugly

dh class hall is ugly as heck!!!

[civic palm]

AS HECK!!

[ionic crown]

no swearing

[nimble tartan]

lore wise i like the maelstrom for shamans

very cool

[restive inlet]

Priest has the best one

[nimble tartan]

warriors leap into the sky

thats alpha

dks OMEGALUL

[warm parcel]

I mean druids can fly

And have mailbox

And portals

[civic palm]

FUCKING MAILBOX

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[nimble tartan]

thats true but the thing is they also have a lot of erp

[civic palm]

GIVE US A MAILBOX

[nimble tartan]

so idk

[ionic crown]

can fly in dk one too

[civic palm]

HOW DO WE SEND SECRET COMMUNICATIONS?!

[ionic crown]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[warm parcel]

Just makes it better

[civic palm]

WITHOUT A MAILBOX?1

[nimble tartan]

once u walk into the sreamgrove u can be caught in a sexual adventure

[warm parcel]

What do you mean omr

[nimble tartan]

you're right druids the best

[lime path]

maybe I'm just used to dreamgrove privilege

[civic palm]

haha

[lime path]

but all the other 5 order halls I've visited have been the pewps

[civic palm]

Eh the Rogue OH is nice due to how compact it is.

[lime path]

I still need to find things

[warm parcel]

Yup

[lime path]

where's the butthole that upgrades the OH

I found everything else

[civic palm]

Downstairs

hard left

[warm parcel]

Roge nice and small

Noo

Sude

Dude

[ionic crown]

he's in the room with the chest

[warm parcel]

You only enter thru wine shop

Only true entrance

[civic palm]

_>"

[nimble tartan]

ive only ever entered through the opening cabinet

for 2 years

[lime path]

you know, I legit didn't know how to enter the OH

[civic palm]

But I like cheese.

[nimble tartan]

ive never went in another way

[lime path]

I just kept standing at the bookcase until someone else opened the door

till I figured out the insignia thing

[warm parcel]

[civic palm]

Turns out Rogue does have an IQ test.

[lime path]

I figured if it was good enough for Ravenclaw tower

it's good enough for Rogue OH

[nimble tartan]

is this the door

[civic palm]

Correct.

[warm parcel]

Yes

[nimble tartan]

why cant i click it

[warm parcel]

No other door

[civic palm]

Talk to the nerd.

Blacksmith door best door.

[nimble tartan]

i see

see i have to talk to him and then click

thats WRONG

im all about efficiency ok

thats an extra click i dont need

[civic palm]

Just get a WA to skip it 😛

[warm parcel]

Make an addon ye

[nimble tartan]

no thats not pure

[lime path]

still can't find the guy to upgrade the order hall, xD I'm fucking blind.

[civic palm]

pfffffffffffffffffft

[nimble tartan]

i play the game as god intended

no addons

[civic palm]

Down the stairs , HARD left.

[lime path]

play with ALT + Z

[civic palm]

The stairs behind the bookcase...

[lime path]

the way god intended

[balmy gale]

Wait the store owner isn't the only one we can show our insignia to?

Yo that's hype as hell

[nimble tartan]

i play first person

[civic palm]

There are three doors you useless Rogues.

[lime path]

that's the room with the chest isn't it?

[balmy gale]

oof

[civic palm]

Chest room is right room.

He's fucking hiding like a douche.

[warm parcel]

BS one is for the snowflakes

[civic palm]

LEMME GET TO MY FUCKING DUMMIES FASTER

[ionic crown]

OG entrance in the shop is the best entrance

[civic palm]

Also the Alch. trainer was closer there and that's just more important.

[balmy gale]

I saw the doors and an indicator would show it as an object, just never talked to the other people in the buildings lmao

Cool beans

[civic palm]

👍

[nimble tartan]

man if richard was here he'd have forced us to offtopic by now kkona

[civic palm]

I lied there are four entrances.

1 entrance requires ZERO clicking.

O _O

[nimble tartan]

WHICH ONE

[warm parcel]

Hold up

Which one

[nimble tartan]

haha

[lime path]

omg I'm getting super triggered. I'm in this room but I'm so damn blind. Fuck this class xD

[civic palm]

Dalaran's Butthole.

[nimble tartan]

quick tell us b4 the cops

[civic palm]

Just... fly right up into it.

[warm parcel]

That took you to bmah last patch

Not oh

[civic palm]

pfddddddddddddr

[nimble tartan]

oh outside

cmon

[civic palm]

Why can you leave through it then?

Blizzard please.

[warm parcel]

You left oh thru it?

[balmy gale]

si

[ionic crown]

this is a rogue topic

💢

[nimble tartan]

as a shadowblade im going to need u to show more POISE tisumi

use your power

[lime path]

oh I haven't unlocked him yet. derp.

[civic palm]

haha

[balmy gale]

Ah, does anyone know when the nerfs go into effect?

[lime path]

was wondering why this bookcase doesn't even open for me on the way out.

[shrewd night]

dw tisumi, just go nap. We can handle ourselves

[lime path]

silly me

[safe matrix]

I was so sad we never got a "borrowed" hearthstone that took us to our class hall

it would've fit and worked so well

fuck the cheese vendor, and especially fuck the bookcase guy

[civic palm]

Weak this still works.

[lime path]

just teleport to your order hall and have portals all over Azeroth bro

[civic palm]

wtf are you on about?

[lime path]

:3

[warm parcel]

So guide me thru it

[civic palm]

1 sec

[warm parcel]

Like I was a rh resident

[safe matrix]

the druid one is worse though, I would rather hearth to dal than go to DG

[civic palm]

This butthole.

[warm parcel]

Oh that one

Outside

[lime path]

druid one is bae sir

[warm parcel]

Thats like so slow dude wtf

[lime path]

can literally go anywhere

[civic palm]

Yeah but I said 0 clicks O _O

[shrewd night]

NO CLICKING

[civic palm]

THAT IS STILL UPSIDE DOWN MORON

[lime path]

can't even wear this second leggo till I do this xD

[safe matrix]

druid one has two loading screens, a fuck ton of walking, everything is super spread out, and worse of all

you get the god damn invasion quest from your class hall

[shrewd night]

Shes undead fam, what if her eyeballs are upside down in the sockets.

[civic palm]

shit

[lime path]

yes but you can fly in our orderhall

😛

[safe matrix]

you can also fly in dal

[civic palm]

🛡

NICE WHILE IT LASTED

[lime path]

welp, that's where I pow out

till next time my grifty friends

[civic palm]

👋

[lime path]

oh wait, I forgot to ask this before I go

are the darkshore dailies the only place I can find another dagger before launch?

base 152 artifact daggers seem poopie now.

[vivid bone]

you can buy relics from the argus vendor

and pray for titanforge?

I mean, you're probably better off just doing darkshore dailies

[lime path]

and if I get two diff ilvl daggers, higher ilvl in the mainhand? or slower weapon in the mainhand?

or are all daggers 1.8s now?

[vivid bone]

all daggers are 1.8

so just equip highest damage in mainhand, that's what I do

obviously not now, since my artifacts are like ilvl 248

[lime path]

heh, funny enough on the kitty, a 230 spear is better than my 242 artifact

cuz of the golganeth's vitality proc thing

and normalized weapon speed

[vivid bone]

hmm, you simmed it?

[ionic crown]

[lime path]

yeah, everyone does.

[vivid bone]

you'd be surprised

[lime path]

depending on RNG you can do obnoxious amounts

cuz normalized attackspeed xD

but PM if you want details, I don't wanna de-rail offtopic and piss off Tisumi.

[vivid bone]

you can pm me details

[warm parcel]

Eeh. Same deal applies to outlaw

And why trinket did well with SnD

[harsh aurora]

So, in a situation where you’re in a trash pack but one mob has much higher priority, what kind of breakpoints are there where you stop gaining a meaningful damage increase by spreading bleeds for the energy gain on that higher priority target? Thinking specifically about the infested affix in bfa.

Rephrased: if you’re trying to nuke down one mob faster than the others in a pack, at what point is it more worth to stop trying to spread bleeds and just focus on maintaining dots and pumping Envenoms?

[versed bobcat]

Insta i guess?

Since u dont want much damage on the other ones technically :X depends on comp tho i guess

[warm parcel]

Judge by feel

Depends on how long the big dude lives

If hes up for 10 sec youll never have any return from dots

If hes up for a minute, you can dot everything

[open hazel]

Did they pull back on the big poison nerfs and all the stuff that was coming?

[civic palm]

?

[weak sorrel]

All we know is they nerfed us overall with 4%

[vagrant linden]

Salutations fellow rogues.

[vocal wave]

Man, the problems with trying to decide if I should play Rogue main and Balance as Alt, or Balance and Feral instead of Rogue

Sub and Outlaw are great, but their enjoyment doesn't last long. I enjoy bleed and doT specs, but without tier atm, my dps doesn't do much at this point

Well it's good dps

But no where as good as my sub or outlaw dps

I love having long fights, and DoTs, and shit like that

[strange python]

depends on what kind of content you're doing

druid is more versatile

[vocal wave]

Raids and Mythic+

[strange python]

boomie is great in m+

solar beam is broken

[shrewd night]

Didnt you have trouble deciding between warrior and rogue just yesterday?

[strange python]

rogue is great in m+

[shrewd night]

Time to do some grown up decisions tbh

[strange python]

sub is great for infested

[vocal wave]

I suffer from class envy Koffing

It's genetical

[strange python]

overall I'd pick rogue bcause historically rogue has a much better raid performance than druid dps specs

[vocal wave]

My father suffered from it, and his grandpappy too

[shrewd night]

Atoms

I think we have to put Mango down

Im sorry kiddo

[vocal wave]

Don't do it

[shrewd night]

I know you loved him

[strange python]

mango jam is gross

[civic palm]

We can't let you reproduce you said it yourself... it's genetical.

[strange python]

I'm all for that pumpkin jam yo

[vocal wave]

Who the hell likes Pumpkin Jam

[strange python]

everyone?

mango is meant for juices, milkshakes or to be eaten

it doesnt go on your cheese or toast

😠

[vocal wave]

You obviously haven't had Mango Jam and Cheese

But back on track slightly

Yeah I suffer from class envy, and struggling like shit. Gotta stick to a class.

Give me your wise advice

[strange python]

rogue discord

[vocal wave]

In the long run, if I play rogue, Sin is the way to go for sure

[strange python]

hey guys should I play rogue

hmm

dont pick a class only willing to play one spec

thats dumb

[vocal wave]

Alright, I'll make the question more nuanced.

Sin vs Feral

Pros and Cons

[strange python]

feral hasnt been good since mop

[vocal wave]

If you ignore currrent tuning ofc

[strange python]

it's historical far worse than rogue

tadah

[safe matrix]

Doesn't have the utility of rogue

Nor the survivability

[vocal wave]

I lacks in survivability, but it has different utility, no?

[open hazel]

Feral was crap for the first half of legion wasn't it?

damage-wise

and playstyle-wise too

[strange python]

different utility

eh

feral's roar sucks

it has super low range

[safe matrix]

Shroud is probably the strongest utility spell in m+

[strange python]

it does have a CR but meh

yeah

and if you aren't dumb

you'll play the other rogue specs

and if you're doing rogue as a whole (not just assa) vs feral theres no competition

too much versatility in being a triple dps

[vocal wave]

Defo there is, yeah

[safe matrix]

Sin is super good in higher keys when you can dot

[strange python]

that always has historically had at least one good spec

[civic palm]

or even if you only play 2 roles.

[strange python]

if you wanna play druid

you dont play it for feral

you play it for boomie

boomie is the strongest druid spec rn in terms of utility, no point discussing numbers since they can change at blizzard's will

[vocal wave]

I mean the choice is basically down to Rogue (mainly Sin as long as it works for the content I'll be doing at that time, Sub and Outlaw if it doesn't) + Boomie vs Feral + Boomie

[shrewd night]

hey rogue discord what should i play

fam

🤦

[safe matrix]

Death knight

[oblique pendant]

mage

[strange python]

druid you can play more roles

you can heal, you can tank

[vocal wave]

I expanded on the question and got good answers

[strange python]

that's always useful for a casual player

[vocal wave]

Which is nice

I like discussions and conversations

[shrewd night]

Do you want to be shoehorned into a role if your preferenced spec sucks?

if no, play rogue

ez

[vocal wave]

That's a good point too

These are all good points

[safe matrix]

Plus rogues are always taken cause of our survivability and high mobility

You basically never need to worry about raid spots

Especially on prog

[dire spoke]

except there are 2 others and you're bad

[vocal wave]

(Good thing I'm the raid leader)

And the guild leader

So I got that going for me atleast

But no, these are good points

Thanks for the replies, including the snarky ones @shrewd night ye bum

❤

[shrewd night]

no bully

inb4 tomorrow he is split between ret and rogue

and just because he read that now, the seed is planted

GOTTEM

[strange python]

ew, ret

[vocal wave]

You guys are sounding like my friends do.

"You're changing again?"

I was originally planning to play a Mage in BFA when ti was first released

I feel like I've gone through every class

[oblique pendant]

mage is cool :p

[shrewd night]

dw

ret is cool too mango

I wont shit on your feelings

[strange python]

@strange python big fan

thank you

[simple portal]

@civic palm Thankyou for your brilliant WA 😃 can you tell me if the empowered garrotte is working yet from vanish ?

[nocturne gate]

is there any rouge/assa community to join in bnet ?

[shrewd night]

#announcements

[vocal wave]

I should probably get into that community

[shrewd pine]

no

[narrow abyss]

Hey guys i stop wow quite a while ago before tos, for sin rogue if EP talented, what else other than garrote and rupture uptime we have to keep on?

[shrewd night]

Read the guide.

[mortal oracle]

Does Hidden Blades and Dreadlord Deceit Stack?

[quick ice]

yes

[mortal oracle]

thanks

[lofty junco]

but IIRC they stack sperat so ya will got 30 and 20 stacks, not 50

[quick ice]

correct

and they're additive, not multiplicative

[shrewd pine]

rip multiplicative FoK stacks

was good memes while it lasted

[royal bronze]

Is it just me or does our energy regen feel a lot less?

Did anything change in last nights patch apart from the dmg decrease sorry?

[quick ice]

nope

[royal bronze]

It's me tripping dw

[quick ice]

usually the answer is "are you wearing poisons" because that has happened more than once

[red shoal]

i have a wa big like the monitor for memento 😄

[shrewd night]

Why do you need a huge ass wa for a trinket like memento

[ionic crown]

Holding cds for trinket procs

[red shoal]

lol

agagagaga

memento its like "dont forget it" (about poisons)

[exotic glen]

now i've seen everything

[red shoal]

y 😄

[exotic glen]

no i mean

you laughing by saying agagagaga

literally never seen that before

[red shoal]

^^

random keys

it could me

abavavbaba

😄

could be*

[shrewd night]

xaxaxaxa

[smoky bluff]

Juas

[sweet pecan]

en francais c'est riririririririri

[vocal wave]

So the translation of ririririri to english is "laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh"?

Good to know

Forgetting poisons is like a ritual for me.

[gleaming kelp]

why would you say laugh laugh laugh laugh laugh tho

:d

[agile breach]

any new builds for arena?

[shrewd pine]

#pvp

[lone junco]

@agile breach I enjoy this tweet. https://twitter.com/OnFirePhilian/status/1024589271645216768

BIG PHILIAN (@OnFirePhilian)

"We didn't start the fire..."

Twitter

[smoky bluff]

Hahaha

[kindred cedar]

What spec are you gonna level as in bfa and why? Whats the recommended one? And what leggos you gonna use?

[lone junco]

mmmm

High 1T, 2T and 3T

prob high 20T

[hoary copper]

Affliction probably

Maybe demo

[lone junco]

Hell yes. Lib might is top for Sin/outlaw/sub. fuck the spec specific ones.

[kindred cedar]

What is that lib might thing?

[lone junco]

and bis for 1T/2T/3T/

it is a possible azerite trait

[kindred cedar]

Oh cool

[lone junco]

https://bfa.herodamage.com/rogue/azeritestacks/1t-t22-assassination

[kindred cedar]

What decides what traits u get then?

[lone junco]

read

https://azerite.info/

[kindred cedar]

Oh thanks!

[hoary copper]

That seems like a strong trait for just about any class

[lean hill]

That and the pseudo poison bomb

[barren tree]

WIll everyone be leveling as assassination ? Or do you guys have a prefered spec come BFA launch for leveling ?

[lone junco]

@hoary copper gonna be gutted tbh. the Agi from ruptures is so limp compared.

I level outlaw.

[barren tree]

Yea outlaw for me feels "Quicker"

[quaint sequoia]

What talents Will u guys level with as sin?

[hoary copper]

I'll be leveling my lock first, affliction is fun now

[barren tree]

But for world PVP, sin just wrecks

I find myself vanishing and switching sin if someone trys to gank me lol

[glacial shuttle]

Marked for Death for sure, and will probs go with Master Poisoner specifically so deadly wounds can obliterate everything for me with Envenom up.

[hoary copper]

I mean talents prob wont change too much for open content

[glacial shuttle]

True. Shoulder leggo up until 115 will almost definitely be required, and Sephuz for movement speed buffs.

At least for me

[barren tree]

@hoary copper What did they change about aflic ? It was my main in legion up and through mythic progression tomb

[quaint sequoia]

Dont u want kjbw and sephuz for leveling

[quaint hawk]

Kjbw seems lame, too long of a cd

[glacial shuttle]

It's not set in stone lol. 😛 I just have preferences.

[hoary copper]

KJBW and Sephuz will be good, Mantle will be decent too

[glacial shuttle]

Would I prefer 100% crit every time I open on an add, or would I prefer risk of taking loads of damage only to blow them up with kjbw

[hoary copper]

KJBW makes aoeing packs down easier

@barren tree Haunt and Phantom are now in the rotation so there's just a lot of things to manage which I kind of like its not just dummy drain spec anymore

[glacial shuttle]

haunt and phantom make anything with more than 2 target a bit more of a hassle now too I think.

[barren tree]

Oh yea I saw Haunt is no longer talented

[glacial shuttle]

it is 😮

[hoary copper]

haunt is the go to talent. Afflic isnt the aoe monster it was but ST its really good. 5 dots, haunt, phantom and deathbolt make you stay pretty busy

I actually like all 3 lock specs even if demo feels like it hits like a wet noodle right now

[glacial shuttle]

true that. Does keep you busy. It's kinda weird trying to juggle 3 spells with a 15s, 30s and 45s cd without potentially losing a cast, in addition to maintaining dots as well.

[hoary copper]

I struggle with UA uptimes the most

[tepid ridge]

does the API or raidbot consider sephuz as procced or not?

[shrewd pine]

no

[hoary copper]

I love my rogue, sin just feels so slow once you lose tier. Idk how I'd do it. Only other spec slower is frost dk

[glacial shuttle]

Yeah. I'm terribad at pooling resources, even on single target. I wish I had more control over shard generation, cause it isn't consistent enough for me. But I tend to spam 1-2 UAs in a row when I should probably stop and cast to get max uptime.

[hoary copper]

well less apm

[glacial shuttle]

ahaha I love sin. I just started playing it in the prepatch. I don't have tier, it's fun.

[hoary copper]

I mean 1-2 UA in a row isnt bad if you're using deathbolt. It hits really hard

[glacial shuttle]

I felt Unholy was slow as helllll. To the point that I had zero resources to do anything with. :/ Runic Corruption didn't proc nearly as much as it did with the artifact.

[lofty junco]

why we're talking about WL in assa-channel or Rogue discord?^^

[glacial shuttle]

I don't think frost has that issue. With the right talents you can struggle with resource management.

[hoary copper]

Unholy isnt that slow anymore

Frost still has that issue tho

[glacial shuttle]

Does it? I was struggling to spend it all lol.

[hoary copper]

I mean we can move to #off-topic with non-spec

[shrewd pine]

frost is the slowest spec rn

[glacial shuttle]

I mean... yeah if you want...

[hoary copper]

Bottom for APM are:
Frost DK
Assassin
Mark

[glacial shuttle]

Is that just because of GCD or because of resources or both

[kindred cedar]

How bad will assa be in exp?

[hoary copper]

both

[kindred cedar]

Wanna Play assa as I like that spec the most

[hoary copper]

🔮

No tuning until 8.1, we will prob be in an ok spot. Everything is viable

[kindred cedar]

Okey

What is strongest spec atm?

[hoary copper]

Doesnt matter

its prepatch

[glacial shuttle]

It's gonna change in like... 5 days when you start levelling again. Just play around and see what feels fun right now.

[kindred cedar]

I mean in exp

How does it look atm 🤔

[glacial shuttle]

😐 What do you mean?

[hoary copper]

...thats what we're talking about

[kindred cedar]

Oh my bad

Cool

[oblique osprey]

Not asking about numbers, but how does sass feel at 120 right now? Do we flow well and do decent in dungeons?

[dire spoke]

lol

[hoary copper]

🔮

[lofty junco]

@oblique osprey on beta assa feeled realy nice and was fun to play. i loved the non exsang builds. leveling to 120 was nice, smooth and fun too and on 120 its the same

[oblique osprey]

@lofty junco Awesome, thanks 😃

[lofty junco]

ya like it? play it. let nobody change ya opinion in that case!

[main blaze]

It feels very similar to how it feels now

[lofty junco]

m+ is the same in bfa. all 3 specs are great for m+

[past harbor]

How should i use my vanishes if talented into subterfurge ( what spells should i cast in that window, garrote and rupture?)?

[strange python]

garrote once within three seconds of vanishing.

but make sure you vanish garrote when the previous garrote has 5.4 seconds remaining, so the new empowered garrote gets maximum pandemic uptime.

do not refresh an empowered garrote. Let it tick fully.

[past harbor]

Okey, and no other priority spell besides empowering garrote?

[strange python]

if you don't have the legendary shoulders, vanish only empowers garrote.

with subterfuge.

[steep citrus]

or if you take that awesome talent

[past harbor]

Thank you a lot

[graceful breach]

Anyone notice the nerfs? Or was it not that big?

[strange python]

🤷 you do about 4% less damage than before

[graceful breach]

Lol

Ya got me

[strange python]

which is around 250 dps for most

hey guys, this nerf of 4% will change something in the build, rotation and items?

no

[silver stone]

its fucking 4 %

[plucky patio]

but... the sky is falling right?

[strange python]

No, rogues were overturned to begin with.

Surprised that tuning wasn't more

[plucky patio]

I was expecting closer to 10% TBH, or a haste scaling change or something.

[strange python]

was what I imagined, in real I was worried about a much bigger nerf than had seen in the wowhead, but it did not happen

[untold laurel]

You guys thinking PB or CT build if leveling to 120 with a MM hunter chain/group pulling?

[strange python]

Whichever you like more, PB is purely RNG it may proc it may not

You have 100% control over CT and when it applies damage

[warm sable]

We dont have safe fall anymore ?!?!

[warm parcel]

ofc we do

[grim canopy]

anyone got videos of assassin m+ on beta

[royal lantern]

google ´´wow bfa beta assassination rogue m+´´

[river quarry]

Just wondering if there's a good new WA for rogue like this https://wago.io/VJciiC9zm

it's broken for me now, just returned to wow.

would love something similar

[strange python]

the pinned messages have weakauras

[river quarry]

ah

wish i could carry over the energy bar/combo pts bar

:<

[winter gale]

Bois wich stats are best for us atm ?

My wa's. What do u think?

[river quarry]

idk i prefer mine over most of them it's just original ips with a different bar theme thingy

[zealous dew]

UI is personal

[strange python]

where's envenom buff

where's elaborate planning

[winter gale]

Connor, its when its chosen as talent

Envenom buff pops up above

[strange python]

[river quarry]

Oooooooo https://wago.io/rJHnK2uN7

this dude gets it

booyah got my WA back

feelsgoodman

[paper horizon]

https://wago.io/HJne8X6Mm

they are good i think i will change them to Rogue

[sly bloom]

hey guys, new to rogue, so i checked the 3 guides (RH, IV and WoWhead) and Vendetta usage on the opener differs on each one

do you cast it after applying Rupture/Garrote on the opener?

[river quarry]

if you do lemme know

[sly bloom]

RH says prepull

[river quarry]

looks pretty neat

[strange python]

where on RH does it say pre pull

[sly bloom]

Pre-Pull

18 seconds on the pull timer, Marked for Death when talented
Potion
Vendetta

Pull

Garrote
Mutilate till 4 combo points
Rupture

and so on

[strange python]

I don't see that in the guide above

but anyway don't vendetta in pre pull

[twin meadow]

who tf does an 18 sec pull

yikes

[strange python]

yea idk

RH means Ravenholdt, correct?

[sly bloom]

yup

http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/

[lean hill]

No vendetta on prepull there

[strange python]

Interesting, that is a different guide than the one in the pins

[sly bloom]

i figured i'll go directly to the spec guide instead of the "quickstart" ones, my bad 😄

[lean hill]

I see. The bfa prepatch quickguide doesnt

[sly bloom]

since both are updated for 8.0

[lean hill]

But the actually guide says to do it

[strange python]

it's ok I didn't know it existed

[sly bloom]

dunno why i always got intimidated by Assa

[strange python]

the apl does not vendetta pre pull

[sly bloom]

i always played sub or outlaw but never played rogue that much anyway, wanna main it during BFA

[strange python]

unless it knows it will get an extra vendetta at the end of the fight or smth

in legion it used to

well, not prepull, but on pull

[river quarry]

reckon one could get 1200 of those things to upgrade legendaries within 6 days?

[sly bloom]

yeah didn't seem right to me to Vendetta prepull that's why i asked

[lean hill]

Who wrote the updated sin guide?

[sly bloom]

or right after pull

[lean hill]

I know fuu did the quickguides

[strange python]

weak

[exotic glen]

vendetta on pull once simmed as a dps increase

but no one would recommend doing it

because its really not

[strange python]

weak is pretty trustworthy

[exotic glen]

just do what the guide says

[strange python]

but there's two different guides with different information

[exotic glen]

oh i misunderstood then

where is the guide that says to vendetta on pull

[strange python]

ravenholdt website

[exotic glen]

yeah i scrolled up a bit

hang on while i read

[lean hill]

The quickguide is what we have been used to, the actual sin guide says prepull