seemed lame
#assassination
strange python
dire lintel
it was if you were minmax
ornate gazelle
and ultimately it all won't matter because we're still a great class in bfa
dire lintel
now you press rsk before bok
solid nova
Instead of being --------------> this far ahead
you're now ---------> this far ahead
Then BFA hits and it doesnt matter
solid nova
I thought my pin earlier was good enough 😦
ornate gazelle
shit maybe move the arrows closer lol
solid nova
Feelsbadman
dire lintel
^^ jeah i cant decide between monk and rogue rn 😦
warm parcel
He wasnt even talking about the 4%
But the pvp ones
And yes, that nerf you can notice
ornate gazelle
we now need one more finisher to finish globaling someone lol
solid nova
Must have missed the pvp part
warm parcel
creeping venom
solid nova
I must have chimed in late
ornate gazelle
i honestly hope exsang build is the way to go if sin is best in bfa
change of pace
lofty junco
i hope not exang feels bad/boring man
ornate gazelle
i just wanted to get off nerf topic and onto a sin topic
like the channel name says xD
steep citrus
that's some top notch modding
solid nova
I appreciate
prime cosmos
good morning, what stats should i be looking to focus on?
prime cosmos
what % am i looking for crit and mastery and haste?
strange python
There are no caps. For me, haste falls off at around 28%, but I cannot say for you.
solid nova
Sim your stat weights and follow them my dude
No set caps, just stat priorities which change for everyone
Generic stat weights are pinned
Your personal ones need simming
prime cosmos
do i need to get addons to use raidbots?
ornate gazelle
and honestly, with the new xpac coming in a week, just put on your highest ilvl and report back in/sim a week or so into bfa
strange python
you should get the addon simc, go in game and type /simc, then copy and paste that into raidbots
strange python
then if you want to test different gear/talents you need to change them and type /simc again
or do the top gear function in raidbots
prime cosmos
so each time i get new gear or swap talents . i have to copy and paste the text out of simc?
solid nova
At this point in the game it's far less important than during current content
solid nova
But in general, yes
short pivot
So does this mean haste has fallen off for me?
deft fox
Rom, that sim hurts me. My Frost DK main is about the same Ilvl, and only sims at 4.5k 😦
strange python
guess I should run new sims after the nerfs
solid nova
I got £5 on nothing changes
short pivot
Sorry mate, but i dont get agility being 3.12 and haste 3.03
deft fox
lol
strange python
oh
short pivot
Does it mean i enchant from haste to agility now?
strange python
hum I can't read
short pivot
To get higher numbers?
prime cosmos
strange python
for me crit and haste have equal value at 28%
prime cosmos
does this mean priority? like haste is more important than crit?
strange python
yeah sorry about that
read the bottom text
one point of haste will give more dps than one point of crit
prime cosmos
10-4
strange python
?
prime cosmos
thanks i didnt know how interpret that
frozen karma
10-4
strange python
the hell is 10-4
prime cosmos
it means loud and clear
wheat zealot
Truckers say it i believe lol
strange python
👍
frozen karma
Police too
prime cosmos
i think its a common term used across many professions
strange python
me? go outside? nah
dapper moat
actually
wheat zealot
It probabaly is used widely but i associate it with truckers mostly lol
dapper moat
i think its not officially allowed to use it
strange python
🤷 you learn more every day
short pivot
So you think i should enchant agility since its higher than haste?
Till they kind of equal? Is that how its done?
wheat zealot
You can only enchant agil on cloak, rings and neck its not possible
short pivot
Yeah i know
strange python
there is no haste enchant for cloak
short pivot
But sockets
strange python
if you mean socket then yeah you should put one agi gem in
short pivot
Should i swap those around then
strange python
You can only have one agi gem
royal lantern
you can only use 1 mainstat gem
strange python
the secret to 6k is seeping scourgewing, stupid broken trinket
short pivot
Yeah i know, vendored it so many times it fuckin hurts...
royal lantern
and not selling all your haste gear 8months ago
strange python
went from 5.9k to 6.3k when I got one
short pivot
And thing is u cant restore!!
wheat zealot
Min maxing for the next week omegalul
short pivot
Ez pz
strange python
hey man that trinket will be good for one shotting stuff while leveling
short pivot
Good luck in warmode frend
royal lantern
you still play rogue in bfa? the 4%nerf made the class shit!!!1111!!! /s
short pivot
🤗
solid nova
@prime cosmos Yes
wheat zealot
Oh i know, but i wouldnt care much about gems or enchants for leveling.
If youre already mythic geared shits ezpz
quaint rune
did the patch roll out that nerfed us in pvp?
plain thistle
but the bonus stop working at 119
quaint rune
it still shows garrote doing 100% dmg with the level 1 talent
plain thistle
doesnt it?
strange python
I thought it did but someone yesterday said the nerfs were beta only so I doubted myself
@plain thistle really?
quaint rune
beta only as in they probably wont roll them out to live?
wheat zealot
I believe they still work at 120
strange python
Think he meant they will come to live eventually
lofty junco
wtf people that want 2k+ rating for a +16 key....assa is awesome he/she/it should be glad that i pay attention to his grp^^
wheat zealot
I wouldnt let someone in my group with low rating either, usually they are garbage
royal lantern
but.....everything changed, the legion rating doesnt mean shit now
wheat zealot
So look to see if they did keys since pre patch, and look at there pre patch score lol
Ik prepatch keys is a meme, but still dont want to carry a pleb for free with my key
lofty junco
btw whats a good m+ combo for CT(talents)? and don't come me with pins/sim yo self. there are no m+ pins
vocal wave
I mean
Just sim the multitude of different talent speccs you can do via raidbots
And you'll see for you what's the best set up
I think Noobe sims Patchwerk 4 targets @40 secs, and 8 targets @20 secs
And it depends on the key too
lofty junco
what is this week?
vocal wave
Explosive, Bolstering and Tyra
strange python
that was last week
strange python
oh
lofty junco
me2 mango ty
vocal wave
No problem
lofty junco
was looked for a 15er key before reset^^
but with my 1,5k main score can't find a grp cause i doed mainly raiding and not m+
ok i just want to hear ya thoughts not sim/pins. with tyrannic in the mix. bracers+sephuz, bracers+mantle or mantle+sephuz?
strange python
bracers sephuz
lofty junco
ty. was thinking about the bracers cause we have anytime longlife mobs and with tyranic bosses lifes very long
sudden ravine
Consider :, even in tyranic, the final 30% of all the bosses combined is going to be about 90 to 120 seconds.
Would you rather have the shoulders for every trash pull the other 25 minutes?
wheat zealot
Especially in lower keys mantle would easily outperform bracers
shy axle
@sudden ravine yeah, mantle in myth+ > all
strange python
except you waste most the shoulder buff by garroting three times
autumn bloom
if you run mantle you run ns i would assume
wheat zealot
Bracers would come ahead in high keys where stuff is living much longer mantle would come aheaf
Hell no, i would never run ns in a M+
autumn bloom
even with hidden blades?
wheat zealot
Just having those empowered garrotes have guranteed crit during the mantle window is really nice
Plus ct with 5 cp with mantle buff on trash hits hard
autumn bloom
ahhh yea
wheat zealot
Exactly lol
autumn bloom
shows what i know
wheat zealot
CT for M+ always
wheat zealot
autumn bloom
i didnt much m+ in legion, i think it'll be easier to get into in bfa since theres no legendaries
strange python
no reason to run ns in m+ unless you use mfd and want to open with mfd + ct
but then you cant proc sephuz with garrote
autumn bloom
guess none of that matters in a week anyway
strange python
true true
quasi forge
Is there an addon or weak aura that willl show me my ruptures/ garotes above my targets head?
strange python
should do that already in nameplates
steep citrus
default nameplates do that
strange python
but there a multitude of nameplate addons
quasi forge
hmmm must be something wrong with tidy plates i guess
lofty junco
so mantle+sephuz in fast m+ and for higher keys bracers+sephuz?
lone junco
Is what I do. Subterfuge open is nice.
wheat zealot
the longer stuff is alive the higher the value of bracers so yes
lofty junco
what numbers would ya assume? 15+ for bracers+sephuz and 1-14 for mantle+sephuz?
wheat zealot
Nah i would run mantle up until like 21 or higher
Depends on your group too
Like if you run with other dps that do a lot of extra execute damage shit wont be in the 30% range for long. Further decreasing the value of bracers
lofty junco
allright. just 1 other thing what 2nd trinket would ya reccomnd 225 vari trinket, 240 kingaroth trinket, 200 dogs or 245 eye? i find siming m+ a bit difficult
wheat zealot
On tyranical, scourgewing is very valuable, on fortified weeks use your best aoe trinket available
lofty junco
allright that should be that fire mine trinket from kingaroth...missing aggra trinket
wheat zealot
Better late than never
lofty junco
i just wanted to get some knowledge. its never to late to learn something new
slow mortar
did someone say that toe knee's is busted? just got a 240 from chest
wheat zealot
Toe knees is very strong
lofty junco
whats that? can't find it with google
wheat zealot
Toe knee's promise is the exact name
autumn bloom
i got that moroes trinket the other day that puts a permanent bleed up
wheat zealot
The idea of it is cool but it is so bad lol
autumn bloom
hahah yea
exotic glen
i remember when people thought it would give us energy
and it simmed like 50% more than any other trinket
wheat zealot
And now its trash 
lofty junco
aye^^
lofty junco
btw i hope we cann stand with 1 spec in bfa for m+ wouldn't like it for example to play assa for raiding but i need to play sub/RNGlaw for m+
wheat zealot
Playing all 3 specs is the way to go
autumn bloom
i'd be surprised if any of the specs werent usable
vestal wren
all 3 look good atm
autumn bloom
yup
wheat zealot
Gotta be proficient in every spec so you can switch up for any situation and perform optimally
slow mortar
oops, 240 toe knee is below a 240 splints of agronox
wheat zealot
Are you simming single target?
slow mortar
well ST, aoe is prob nice
autumn bloom
plus rotating between specs helps you not get burnt out
lofty junco
i just don't like sub its terrible(for me) after WoD. loved it to WoD. and outlaw isn't my thing with roll the bones, but with SnD i think i would eventualy give it a shot^^
wheat zealot
Playstyle of RtB is much more fun and engaging than SnD, and much stronger too 🤷
Some of the buffs actually change your rotation rather than just having snd all the time gets pretty boring
slow mortar
5 bosses, 3 min fight, 1.8% increase
i thought it would be wayyyy higher
lofty junco
yeah but thats the reason i called it RNG law because its all about rng with RtB
wheat zealot
@slow mortar they probably brought toe knees back down to earth, like they did with KJBW nerf
royal lantern
rng law sounds weird
wheat zealot
Using reroll logic and the percentage chances to get 1, 2, and 5.
I dont know much about TCing tho
slow mortar
toe knees for fort + mantle is probably a good option for this week
honest compass
Quake and burst this week zzz
At least it’s not explosive
I always ended up doing the explosives on my own
strange python
Same v.v
slow mortar
get a hunter, belittle hunter til hunter is on orb duty
strange python
XD
honest compass
ORBS
proud gust
Explosive is cancer for assassination. Wasting mutilate on an orb sucks
wheat zealot
Yeah i really like outlaw for explosive, doesnt feel bad hitting an orb when i have BF up
honest compass
Aoe was hitting bombs
wheat zealot
wheat zealot
But orbs barely have any health
honest compass
And it’s less time spent on orbs
wheat zealot
So extreme overkill
strange python
Feels bad wasting 16k damage though xD
honest compass
Unless you’re using shadow dance to clear trash I doubt you did 16k
honest compass
Well then use the dot finisher :P
wheat zealot
restive bluff
hey guys,do u know a good WA to seperate improved garrote from normal one?
lofty junco
that moment in a +15 key with a fury w/o BS or DR but with meat cleaver....
lime sedge
So the go to spec in bfa if you look at numbers atm is Assassination? 😃
lofty junco
atm cause we are overpowered in prepatch^^ just play what is fun for ya
honest compass
There isn’t really a best spec right now
lime sedge
allright thanks. Totally new to the class, last time i played it was in vanilla 😃
honest compass
It’s kinda just ilvl based
hoary copper
There are no numbers, nothing has been tuned
hoary copper
8.1 is tuning, I'd guess October maybe?
lofty junco
its useless to play FOTM when ya ahve no fun with it. so just test all 3 and then decide^^
lime sedge
Hope its assassination im way too bad to play sub so freaking hard
honest compass
As it stands right now on beta, sub and sin are neck and neck for raids
And outlaw is like 3k lower
But for M+ it seems outlaw is the way to go
hoary copper
The sims have all 3 pretty good, but its whatever you feel like. Play the class for the class not for the numbers.
honest compass
I see a lot of the aoe melee dps
hoary copper
Most people will bring whatever class unless its a world first race kind of situation
honest compass
Might be lots of cleave damage for M+ in bfa
lime sedge
Who is like theorycrafting for rogues? 😃
honest compass
Haste mastery MP because of Azerite traits. Deals poison damage. Ez 30% more damage from it
Maybe it doesn’t stack but we won’t know till we try
lofty junco
i will stay with assa. cause for m+ w/o a frost mage our slow is very welcome and our dmg should be top too
hoary copper
Hoping unholy gets a little buff, their aoe is pretty awesome now
wheat zealot
Sub is really good, especially on infested
lofty junco
yeah and assa will shine when ya need slow
method Q&A to top dps für m+ in bfa for rogue:
"Any Rogue Spec - Last time I did these rankings, I listed Outlaw as my choice for rogue specs. Since then I have had the privilege of running dungeons with all three rogue specs and now realize that it wasn't just Outlaw -- all three of the specs are amazing. Subtlety is great for erasing (Zauber #204504) mobs; Assassination has top notch single target damage and an AoE slow that can be spammed; Outlaw is still doing great AoE damage. Combine stellar damage with rogue utility and you've got yourself a winner. This class came out of the tuning pass this week mostly unscathed, so it's an easy top choice."
so we will shine no matter what spec^^ if we not got nerfed into the ground^^
lone junco
We knew this. 👌. Rogue is fine.
lofty junco
wass more for @honest compass cause he/she said sin and sub don't compare to outlaw for m+ in bfa
honest compass
In current logs
Outlaw is faring better
Of course things will change
As it nears closer to release
golden mulch
Yeah but DH also has decent utility with buff aoe stun and redoncoulus burst dmg and wasnt nerfed at all.
Maybe DH will be stronger or as good as rogues now?
honest compass
Vengeance is the most common tank rn lmao
golden mulch
Talking about Havoc tho
golden mulch
uhm yeah but im talking about dps specs why would i care about tanks?
dull dust
Vengeance + leech nerfs = dead spec
lofty junco
@honest compass was not talking about now but about bfa^^
golden mulch
Yeah thats cool and all but im comparing Havoc to Rogue and if Havoc is as good or better as rogues now bc it always did nuts burst dmg wasnt nerfed (like rogue) and has buff + AoE stun
stoic pelican
Hello guys! whats the best race for each spec right now in Horde?
honest compass
Don’t play horde
lyric igloo
Or, ya know, do
dire spoke
@stoic pelican check out herodamage
dire spoke
next time try pinned messages or resources first before asking
hoary copper
Races dont matter much
stoic pelican
well I used to. but as Feral. need to reroll 😦
dire spoke
yeah, sure
stoic pelican
I care about logs more than I should. I know 😛
steep citrus
hi, guys. I know this thread goes nuts when they find an apl that does 0.2% more damage than the current apl. I was about to start a rogue and heard race choice can make up to a 1% difference, which one is best right now? Thought I'd ask since race is like the one and only thing you can't fix later without spending actual money
cue everyone shitting on them about race not mattering
strange python
there are race sims on herodamage.com/rogue
the answer is troll
but you should go nightborne because they are awesome
dark isle
Zandalari master race
lone junco
Negative.
stoic pelican
but why Undead is at top? just because of that small shadow damage?
lone junco
Damage is better than no damage?
dire spoke
top tier raider questions btw
stoic pelican
you dont have to be this sarcastic Zempai
dark isle
Race is about as important as your choice of transmog.
You'll lose more dps to RNG variance than your choice of race
dire spoke
I just want an autograph tbh
stoic pelican
well for some classes its pretty noticable
I didn't know if thats the case for Rogue or not
strange python
definitely within the margin of human error.
steep citrus
have i mentioned that I hate that answer? almost every small optimization we make, ... gem type, enchant type, many talent choices ... are all within that human error range. why single out race as one that shouldn't be considered
dire spoke
your answer is on herodamage
if you dislike opinions don't discuss in the first place
steep citrus
they didn't ask for your opinion though
you were quick to offer it
and I offered my opinion on your opinion.
tranquil birch
@steep citrus exactly, in sum all of these optimizations become larger than standard error
strange python
you aren't going to get an orange parse unless you play troll
wheat zealot
wheat zealot
The shitty troll tmog makes it a dps loss
polar grail
^
lofty junco
#notmychieftain
lone junco
I deal in purely assumptions and feely craft. Crown me king of bullshit.
polar grail
you do love your bleedcraft
lofty junco
@lone junco https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSVF84xqIEP-ZUbSVauKR9D8Z12UbjYSksmvHohVPIHfoe57B6P5Q
dark isle
If someone needs to ask what race to play in here, rather than check the multiple sources online or even logs/sim themselves. They are not the kind of player or doing the kind of progress that race choice would matter. And even for the right person it's still irrelevant
dire spoke
someone got my jokes
arctic venture
!trinkets
strange python
is Raidbots reliable for pre-patch sims?
lone junco
@strange python is raidbots ever reliable?
modern walrus
the question should be coolest race =p
dire spoke
@arctic venture you got directed to the pinned messages multiple times in the past, it's not the first time you ask for something. Put some effort in learning about how Discord works
strange python
Right, I should probably install simulationcraft
steep citrus
lul
hoary copper
To be fair @dire spoke he comes in every day almost for that same command
steep citrus
someone come up with a good analogy. i can't. saying you don't trust raidbots so you'll use simcraft
dire spoke
@hoary copper yeah and he's on RH since last year too
hoary copper
oh I know it
dusk estuary
SOOOOOOO this 4% ability nerf... thats Rupture, Garrotte, Posions, Mutilate and envenom which mean like a 20% dps nerf right?
actually i guess its more like 4% of whatever the % of dps that ability was doing so its a little less then 20% but still
plain thistle
hmm what? a 4% to almost all our damage is a 4% nerf overall
its less than that because aura doesnt buff auto attack, which is a big part of our damage
dusk estuary
i mean thats what im asking 4% from rupture + 4% from Garotte means 8% less damage from those abilities by the end of the fight.
plain thistle
oh I understand what you meant
wheat zealot
dusk estuary
so like a huge nerf
cause it says per ability which sounds HUGE
but i mean we were like 35% ahead of all other classes
plain thistle
lol, where?
dusk estuary
BfA beta raids? where they are currently testing all this and making changes?
pre-patch lit doesnt matter
wheat zealot
None of this shit has to do with bfa tuning
plain thistle
yeah, exactly what I was going to say
today 4% is aiming at the current state of classes
wheat zealot
Literally doesnt matter at all
dire spoke
l i t e r a l l y
yeah better do prepatch class tuning than fixing uldir, shit will prob gonna be tested while live
dusk estuary
... well then
wheat zealot
I wish we had a bot that counted the amount of questions everyday that can be answered by a pin
dusk estuary
and i wish ppl that didnt know wtf they were talking about would just say so!
but alas we are both here
hoary copper
But you asked...and its in pins.....soooo
wheat zealot
Better yet get a bot that tells them to check the pins🤔
plain thistle
but answering your queston, the aura is a multiplier to all of our abilities, the 4% nerf will apply to every single ability buffed by this aura, a 4% nerf to a aura is almost a 4% nerf overall (aura doesnt buff auto attack)
hoary copper
If there was a bot that said that, people still wouldnt check
gentle crown
!trinkets
hoary copper
Just had that convo...and here we are
dapper moat
this min/max sometimes here is getting ridiculous. Just play what ever race u like the best, lore,looks and so on.. I mean on raids you are not going to get 100% rotation all the time anyway so maybe try to increase the rotation success before thinking about how races matter 😄
gentle crown
you think i play this game for fun? come on
dapper moat
😄 lolz
gentle crown
😛
lone junco
Lol "fun"
dapper moat
i really hope thats sarcasm, its hard to detect in writings 😄
lone junco
Oh kay
gentle crown
@dapper moat it 100% is
wheat zealot
245 Melandrus
royal lantern
´´fun´´??? in MY videogames??? wath are you? CASUAL???
untold stone
1000 essence now, what legendary to buy for pvp, I do not have shoulders
strange python
uhh probably sephuz.
sweet pecan
strange python
nat 20 on intimidate check "YOU NO SEE THOG" and noone saw Thog
patent topaz
4% on every ability, that means we do negative damage, right??
dire spoke
no u
strange python
steep citrus
math checks out
patent topaz
percentages, how do they work
bronze oasis
Ya'll know if the 110 PvP Training dummy in orgrimmar is legit for testing damage done to players? I just did a combo that... wel it hit hard, and if it works in pvp I'd be quite happy
ionic crown
Would have done more if you tb'd before the envenom instead of after
bronze oasis
Ah that is my brilliant paint skills at play. I cut out all the bleeds and dp damage ticks and put toxic blade below envenom, that is actually before I vanished 😃
ionic crown
bronze oasis
The order of abilities is to put bleeds up, vendetta, toxic blade at 4cp and vanish envenom. With nightstalker and system shock talents picked
bronze oasis
Just tried it out. Wanted to see what it could do. Don't know if the pvp dummy is legit for testing player damage though. And I always go subterfuge in pvp normally
exotic glen
incoherent picture with no previous context
noobe going fucking mental over the rupture damage
lament sandal
are we going to have random legendary drops that greatly affect our ability to dps like we had in early Legion?
civic palm
There's next to no randomness in BfA.
lament sandal
that's good, might actually play
lone junco
3 till i log something prob
lone junco
God I hate sub. I hope outlaw can hang in m+ for a while at least until sin catches up. Or v/v.
I think it's the purple rupture I dontlike
It's like my brain is full. 3specs is too many for me to care about.
civic palm
Yeeeeeep.
lone junco
I liked sub shoulder cloak because it was 🥕 brain. 🍆 deeps.
In m+.
Like. Storm dfa. Storm ev. Yay
trim haven
omg
nerf incoming
im from EU realm so what happened on USA ?
rogue got nerfed ?!??
lone junco
You coward.
trim haven
did we got nerfed ?
lone junco
Meh.
trim haven
i used to be subtetly, but i went to Assa because it was OP... does this mean i can go back to sub now ?
ebon bramble
4% nerf rip, dead gaem
lone junco
If you are asking permission. Then yes.
Assassin. The easiest way to do top deeps.
Did you click garrote? What about rupture? Oh. Ok
fierce mango
hello friends , can someone tell me what you think about rogue nerf ?
civic palm
I think it's ~4%.
fierce mango
soo rogue are still playable ?
stray delta
Rogues are still strong, we were overpowered, now we're less fotm
lean hill
Not at all, better go to arms warrior since they got a buff
dire spoke
lmfao
fierce mango
@lean hill lepo sam pitao toxicno djubre jebem ti mamu
no reason to be toxic i am not pro like you 😦
lean hill
I'm not a pro
lone junco
Was that a foreign language zing?
lean hill
Maybe, I don't speak that language
dire spoke
<@&224906552333697025> insulting going on here
ionic crown
somber egret
Good luck being -4% less useful tonight during raid boys!😂😂 sharing top dps is gonna be rough
lean hill
I tried looking it up, I think he said he wants to fuck my mom or I am a fuck mom? Google can only do so much
civic palm
Something like t hat.
supple hearth
supple hearth
Be loving and kind to all or else
trim haven
@civic palm nope, its more
strange python
be kind to all, except alliance
trim haven
Assassination
Fixed a bug that caused Creeping Venom's duration to be refreshed to a longer duration than intended.
Creeping Venom's damage has been reduced by 50%.
Deadly Poison deals 20% less damage when engaged in combat with enemy players.
Vendetta increases damage dealt to the target by 20% when engaged in combat with enemy players (was 30%).
Toxic Blade increases Poison damage dealt to the target by 20% when engaged in combat with enemy players (was 30%).
Garrote deals 20% less damage when engaged in combat with enemy players.
Subterfuge causes Garrote to deal an additional 50% damage when cast from stealth in PvP situations (was 100%).
civic palm
What about that old stuff?
trim haven
oh
civic palm
Assassination was literally broken in PVP.
civic palm
and is still kinda too strong.
dire spoke
no, rogue is unplayable because things are more fair now
trim haven
i never intented to be fair when I rolled rogue
civic palm
boom...
trim haven
how dare you to insult me
safe matrix
I don't need to insult you when you do such a good job for me
lone junco
The kit is still there. Balancing will be ok.
And 2T will still be good on sin.
I'm looking forward to the 1cp + ruptures I aoe for agi bonus.
strange python
I don't understand. but hello anyways!
lone junco
Weak.
dire spoke
^
north terrace
I'm honestly surprised they only nerfed us in PvP considering we're also killing it in raids right now... happy they seem to be smart about this since we aren't nearly as strong once legendaries and t21 are gone
lone junco
4%
ionic crown
They also nerfed rogues in pve
chrome depot
north terrace
When and where did they nerf us in PvE? Must've missed it
safe matrix
plus a straight 4% nerf the other day
thick jacinth
did you just say feint procs sephuz?
lone junco
If sephuz sims Highest. It's cause you don't have enough crit/haste in your other slots.
It is a high budget item.
thick jacinth
Lmfao what.
north terrace
Where was the 4% nerf though?
lone junco
More like. Feint causes the sephuz to end.
north terrace
Ah, it was today
dire spoke
I don't even know, I feinted the swirlies or something and then that log appeared
thick jacinth
did it happen during the encounter though?
safe matrix
maybe spaghetti code about dispel?
lone junco
Gonna cap E and nothing else to press? Bam feint.
thick jacinth
or you don't recall?
fallow sinew
Subterfuge isn't a buff anymore ?
dire spoke
I don't know why it appears so weird around feint, because there is also nothing to kick - so either it's a log visual bug or it did proc somehow
my heroic logs are accurate af anyways 
nothing weird to see
ionic crown
strange python
HELLO MY LOVELY ROGUES! It has been far too long. I have returned to you. I have come back to embrace our glory as the kings of Melee DPS and crapping on lowbies. Yes, yes I have recently returned from a Hiatus since Burning Crusade and am thoroughly looking forward to ganking you all!
civic palm
O _O
dire spoke
nobody cares
civic palm
Check #tc-updates
exotic glen
you wanna gank other rogues?
ionic hemlock
Sounds like @strange python is just a FOTM player rerolling like the rest of the trolls out there
civic palm
royal lantern
but i thought the class is ded now?
placid marsh
is shoulders/ring new bis?
onyx rock
BiS is what sims highest for you @placid marsh
civic palm
We're Rogues not Innkeepers =\
civic palm
I would say that I would have to retire as a Rogue to then become an Innkeeper.
strange python
Id say our order class hall keeper (the insignia guy)
hes pretty close, right?
I see that this chart was most certainly correct
dire spoke
I want to see you being activly in here answering questions with solid information and don't loose hope in humanity
civic palm
It's entirely correct.
strange python
Cant answer questions yet, dont know enough yet. I just got back from BC times.
But my body is prepared.
exotic glen
@strange python pretty nice way of introducing yourself tho
through the front door
guns blazin
civic palm
HEY!! HELLO!! HOW ARE YA?!
exotic glen
the eyes
strange python
yeah wtf. thats creepy
civic palm
Yeah well she's means it.
strange python
and shes flipping the bird. I see that chart was accurate for sure.
civic palm
Yeah well, maybe.
civic palm
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ -4%
zealous lily
i hope the nerfs chase away all the fotm rerollers
ionic crown
Leave the bird alone 😠
dire spoke
😂
violet olive
void pecan
quaint sequoia
best talents for sin for leveling? 2210023?
strange python
probably.
fading spade
4% isnt even that bad
golden mulch
not sure i heard rogue cant even outdmg mages anymore on aoe pulls in bfa
and outlaw cant beat affli anymore on ST with BL up
we are a healing class now
hardy bluff
finally some useful insight into the class
strange python
what is this nonesense
golden mulch
the truth hurts
fiery nest
"i heard" 😂
strange python
Love hurts @golden mulch Love it. Embrace it. Feel the glory that is one shotting lowbies from stealth.
golden mulch
Rogue is the first PvE healing spec. Heard it here first
fiery nest
ok bye now
dire spoke
golden mulch
in case it wasnt obvious /s
hardy bluff
^
ionic hemlock
I have not unlocked it in the beta but can Zandalari roll rogue?
strange python
yes
untold finch
hey whats the best build for mythic +?
civic palm
In BfA?
untold finch
yea
civic palm
Check back in 2 weeks when we know more. There's gonna be some more balance by the time M+ is active.
devout glen
cant think of a 4th talent for pvp other than trinket system shock creeping venom any suggestions?
was thinking manueverability
grim canopy
anyone have stream of assasination beta mythic+
strange python
flying daggers or deadly brew
supple hearth
both
winged storm
@devout glen arena or open world?
dire spoke
lmfao
dire spoke
did you maintain both bleeds?
dire spoke
did you have ring equipped and forgot to talent into vigor after changing
slow dock
it was similar to regen rate if no pois
but 30m left on pois
i dunno, weird
its fine after relog
dire spoke
cool
hazy iron
Dunno why blizz bother wasting the time in nerfing classes based on prepatch data lol
civic palm
Sometimes it feels like they do it to tweak our nipples.
dense blaze
Why is it bad for the only pure melee DPS class to be doing excellent damage
civic palm
Because there's no such thing as hybrid tax or pure dps bias anymore.
hazy iron
Because people feel bad for not rolling it
dense blaze
Don't tax hybrids, but why nerf the class that only does melee DPS
civic palm
Because the numbers are not where they would like them to be.
There is no more depth to it.
golden dust
we were doing a bit more dps than they wanted us to be doing
ionic crown
hybrids died when the old talent trees died
hazy iron
They likely have chimps throw darts at pictures if classes, and try to tune them based on the order they are hit
ionic crown
yeah but disc can't switch healing off in order to do more dps
golden dust
No, it just hybridizes healing and damage together
golden dust
?
golden dust
Being a hybrid had nothing to do with 'turning off' damage
or healing
it meant being able to do either
As to your comment about 'turning off healing to do more dps' well, you just don't spend globals on throwing up attonements and use them for more smite spam
dense blaze
I saw it
ionic crown
😉
so you'd consider taking a disc priest over a dps class because they can do either?
golden dust
If we needed the extra healing support? Yes.
ionic crown
yikes
safe matrix
yikes
golden dust
when you need more dps but still need a healer
Why do you think they're so strong in m+ prog?
strange python
disc isnt a dps class
they do some dps
but so do most healers
they're not even the highest dps healer
like cmonbruh
strange python
^
golden dust
"cmonbruh"? They literally deal their dps while healing
ionic crown
and still keep the grp alive
strange python
same for a pala
ionic crown
yup
golden dust
Yeah, if a druid ignores healing they can do more dps than a disc priest
but that's not fuckin useful lmao
ionic crown
🤔
strange python
we're not in bfa yet
ionic crown
i don't remember the name but there's some high end druid that was doing what
1m dps
strange python
talking about bfa balancing is pointless
ionic hemlock
anyone play that mmo ages warhammer ? you had that one chaos class that dealt damage and healed heals would go to whoever they had in their focus target basically? kinda wish disc was like that ;x
strange python
rdruid / hpala were picked because they are the highest dps healers whilst maintaining good utility / healing
golden dust
hpala is picked because of its utility. It has an insane amount of utility and more externals than any other class
It's actual healing throughput is weaker than other healers
but its utility more than makes up for it
being able to ignore/skip mechanics is insanely strong
disc is brought when you need the extra dps for timers without sacrificing heals
Don't actually know enough about druids to comment on them
ionic crown
can i snag a link to your raider io
golden dust
No, because I'm not going to let this devolve into "haha you're 200 points below me, your opinion is irrelevant"
golden dust
How about you judge if I know what I'm talking about based on what I say instead of where I fall in rankings?
strange python
lol
golden dust
As you said "my score is really not that good"
ionic crown
and at least 2 mods are active
strange python
ionic hemlock
Seems to be a lot of that going around
strange python
this makes me think you dont know what you're talking about
because disc isnt particularly strong
ionic hemlock
In this discord especially arena chat lol
safe matrix
they're only strong in BfA cause of the changes to the class
civic palm
The past hour and a half have been entirely #off-topic O _O
safe matrix
and how strong absorbs are
safe matrix
I dont even know at this point
strange python
because it's not worth talking about bfa as of yet
safe matrix
in legion you dont take disc priests
strange python
if we're talking legion, disc is not great for m+
ionic crown
i'm talking legion because it's the content i can do right now
jovial relic
alright
dense blaze
Stupid nerf, change my mind
ionic crown
no
ionic hemlock
Disc doesn't seem to be very good imo, aside from rogue and dk I've played disc the most. Lenience needs to be baseline and in that spot, power infusion, bam insta fix
strange python
disc is good in prepatch
safe matrix
strongest healer by far
strange python
we do not know how good it will be in bfa but it's looking very solid
safe matrix
well maybe MW
strange python
I'd say depends on the encounter and type of healing needed
absorbs are inheritely broken
strange python
why heal if you can prevent damage from happening
exotic widget
What spec is everyone levelling as for pure speed? Ass/outlaw/sub?
strange python
assa is the worst
ionic crown
probably outlaw
strange python
between outlaw and sub, depends if you're solo or in a party
safe matrix
probs outlaw, maybe sub
strange python
if you're solo I'd say sub, if you're party I'd say outlaw
outlaw has crazy party buffs
civic palm
SIN because I need time to stuff down my jerky.
safe matrix
also you dont need to ask in every god damn channel 👀
exotic widget
Yeh I noticed. What about ass cloak build with flying daggers and shoulders
exotic widget
Lol I do
strange python
if you're gonna play ass cloak with flying daggers and shoulders
why not play sub
lol
ionic crown
sub hasn't answered you, outlaw says outlaw, sin says outlaw
exotic widget
Thanks for the round up
strange python
I still think outlaw will be the best tho
sub aoe has too much of a cd and needs leggos
strange python
outlaw has amazing aoe with no leggos which means you can go boots sephuz for the sp33d
safe matrix
sub AoE is fine
strange python
with cloak shoulders glaives sure
supple hearth
@exotic widget
exotic widget
Can’t talk in there for so@w reason
safe matrix
have you
supple hearth
its because u didnt check the pins
safe matrix
READ THE PINS
supple hearth
which would show u
ionic crown
those poor 26%
supple hearth
the answers
ionic crown
😦
supple hearth
to all ur questions
exotic widget
No on phone
ionic crown
they'll be a day behind everyone else
safe matrix
you have pins
ionic hemlock
Just level in whatever spec is most entertaining. If you aren't having fun you are just going to level slower and the whole process is going to be less enjoyable
ionic crown
you wanna know pain
strange python
uh
ionic crown
i leveled spriest in 7.1.5
strange python
I'm probably not gonna have fun leveling, that doesnt mean I'll level slower
ionic crown
was quite a time
strange python
in fact, it'll mean I level faster because I wanna get it over with
ionic hemlock
But I also leveled as blood in mop sooo 😭
ionic crown
can't even remember what i leveled in mop
strange python
KS with red buff 😦
ionic hemlock
at least you weren't a shaman and/or druid / paladin in vanilla
I'll never complain about my leveling experience
desert pumice
im playing a rogue for the first time (and playing the game for the first time in 11 years) and ive had a lot of fun switching between sub and outlaw
ionic hemlock
i was a rogue but I had to level a shaman for my guilds raids. then clearing MC and gertting fucking paladin drops
lol
desert pumice
although outlaw worked way better until 45, marked for death makes a big difference in smoothness
ionic hemlock
windfury + sword spec = gg
strange python
stand by me and cast that totem you zero dps bitch - rogues to enh player, probably
ionic hemlock
oh can't forget hand of justice trinket
ionic hemlock
we had one on my server who got HWL, it was scary asf
we had one rogue with a TF too before tanks cus???
Wish they hadn't messed with lock picking and pick pocket, I miss that about vanilla.
dense blaze
If you don't have Thieves' Tools you aren't a part of the club
strange python
heh
ionic hemlock
I still got mine
strange python
or Blinding powder
ionic hemlock
I don't think I have that anymore
Still got my heartseeker though
And my Don Julios ring or w/.e from the AV boss lol
My only regret was taking leather working
I took it because I had the MMO mentality now, and decided to take Elemental LW, now I wish I had taken engineering or something. lol.
fallen sage
anyone got some race sims for rogue on beta?
civic palm
Make sure to actually read the differences as well.
fallen sage
ty
lime path
Hey guys, fresh boosted rogue here. Quick question regarding leveling. Do you reckon Vigor or Marked for Death will be more useful with my only leggo? (shoulders)
civic palm
3 3 3 ... 2.32 2.32 ... HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
safe matrix
fake news
knotty storm
Hey guys, can someone tell me what (gwb) means?
lime path
Girls with benefits
knotty storm
there was a chart posted in the outlaw channel that showed assassin on top for all, st (gwb) etc
(pre nerf)
nimble tartan
can someone with a big brain tell me what 1tA means
from the herodamage azerite trait simmies
warm parcel
1 target 
civic palm
That's a pretty dumb abbreviation for 1 Target o _O
warm parcel
I reckon itll get better when cleave will be added next to it
And as 1T is already taken by trait
civic palm
Yeah.
Twist the Knife being lower for 1tA hint that it is not just a singular targeto.
Also...
,<
warm parcel
Oh
earnest needle
are there any good weak aura groups floating around for rogue
warm parcel
I guess thats pvp ones included then
Tbh. Havent looked at them before
I just know that in pvp combat some traits are more powerful
So that might just be in pvp vs in pve
onyx falcon
@lone junco youre not on a warrior right now are you?
warm parcel
One target alliance? 
lime path
so Vigor or Marked for Death if lvling with shoulders?
onyx falcon
o.o
golden dust
BOTH
earnest needle
when is the best time to use TB after the opener now that theres no KB ?
on cd or try and line up with vendetta
lone junco
@onyx falcon kill that imposter.
earnest needle
is it important to keep the virtulent poison buff up like it was in legion waiting to use a finisher sometimes
or not so much anymore?
strange python
virtulent poison goes hand in hand with envenom buff
onyx falcon
@lone junco im sorry i let them get away, wasnt sure if it was you, didnt wanna kill you =[
strange python
confused by that question since you always use envenom to maximize envenom buff uptime
well nowadays EP is the bigger priority
but yeah your envenom buff uptime and virtulent poison uptime are going to be about equal
nimble tartan
ok wait so what is 1ta and 1t lmao
nimble tartan
ohh ok i thought i was just small brain i couldnt figure it out haha
filthy transfusion new pb POGGERS
strange python
yea I remember that trait hitting really hard on beta. But seemed like a reliable proc rate. Rppm probably?
lime path
Quick question, how come you guys don't seem to care about being accurate with pandemic?
strange python
how so?
lime path
maybe I'm just being a stickler
but the pandemic marker should be 5.4s for garrote, but the guide just rounds up to ~6
and 7.2 for rupture
strange python
garrote's is 5.4 seconds. I suppose it says 6 since it doesn't tick again in .6 seconds
safe matrix
Because at that point you're really just splitting hairs
strange python
Also rupture's depends on cp
strange python
5-7 is correct
safe matrix
7.2 rupture is with 5 pt
strange python
5 you mean
safe matrix
Woops
lime path
5
strange python
6s for 4 cp
safe matrix
4+
strange python
4+
golden dust
4+
safe matrix
Cause that's how muts cp generation works
nimble tartan
ahh yeah 1ta is pvp btw
strange python
and a 3cp rupture isn't so bad and might be a dps increase if used properly
nimble tartan
cause it basically doubled the value of glory in battle which is a pvp trait
lime path
assuming I don't take Deeper Stratagem, where's the extra CP capacity coming from?
strange python
i.e right before toxic blade
lime path
oh do you use 4cp finishers to avoid wasting points cuz of mut double proc gen?
strange python
one mutilate can potentially give 4cp