#assassination
plain thistle
strange python
sim your stat weights
dire spoke
there is no discussion 🤷🏻 you play subt and garrote after vanish, nothing has changed except there is no real matter of minmaxing
strange python
i think it's a valid question since the second vanish window is outside of toxic blade and it could be discussed if a toxic bladed vanish window beats the garrote
the last time people played shoulders with subterfuge was in nighthold when toxic blade didnt exist
dire spoke
nobody mentioned TB until now
strange python
why else would you vanish early 🤷
fallow estuary
Better allignment on the 2nd vendtta aswell
also small stuff like align vanishes has a higher chance of buffing psn bombs since you push out alot more CP during the first mantle window
light kestrel
Damn, Weapon dps sims at 15.80 compared to agi at 3.05 and haste at 2.94
golden tartan
shrewd night
Noone can tell you what class you enjoy the most.
undone nova
yes
shrewd night
So fuck it, play a cleric
undone nova
you should
shrewd night
Samurai is pretty cool too
undone nova
rogue best class wow
round harbor
Rogue seems like one of the four safe picks
Historically the pure dps classes are always super strong and relevant
Well, four pure dps + warriors
royal lantern
there is always alteast 1 good rogue spec
round harbor
^ same goes for Hunter, lock, and mage
royal lantern
- the deffensive stuff is always good for raids
round harbor
Has there ever been a WF guild without a rogue?
Vs lots of WF are without enhance, or dk dps
dire spoke
@fallow estuary if you're concerned about the APL or rotation contact the devs or writers 🤷🏻 I don't think they ignored any factors, but it doesn't mean it all gold what they publish
trail hound
How do you sim Sephuz without proc?
compact vapor
What’s a good Leggo to get for assassination the ring or the shoulder
trail hound
Awesome, ty
dire spoke
@compact vapor mantle or back will be nice for leveling
hard grail
Hey guys, I'm sure you answer this alot. But im switching from feral to rogue for BFA. Im a mid-high tier mythic raider. I really enjoy assas and not a fan of sub. Do you think assas will be good for the duration of BFA for raiding and M+?
royal lantern
nobody can tell cus the classes are balanced aroun 120 and shit will still change(and you should know that as a mythic raider:P)
sweet pecan
last expansion ass did alright, but that is no guarantee ofc
strange python
hard grail
Right, and you can play at 120 currently, with people clearing 14-15 M+ on the beta. So with 120 being available for almost 2 months, its a viable question.
royal lantern
imo assasination will be atleast ´´good enough´´ for the howl expac
hard grail
When and why does sub outscale assas? Numbers only?
royal lantern
right now sin pulls the highest numbers if im right(not 100%sure sorry)
dire spoke
sin currently is only better because it doesn't have Nightblade but real DoTs
hard grail
Cool, thats good enough for me. My other question, is with sin, does its kit allow us to probably be ok in M+ without having to play outlaw? With like crimson tempest?
royal lantern
CT is overtuned as hell right now
dire spoke
why is it so important? you have aprox 22 days until raids open
enough to level some toons
hard grail
Because I want to level one toon, and have it as best geared as possible
dire spoke
Because you only want to play "the best" spec ingame
stark heart
am I the only one or combo points are lagging?
hard grail
No, I said I want to play assasination and want to know if people that are better experienced rogues think its going to be ok in M+ with its kit
royal lantern
then stay with druid, blizz will always make sure that druid is the top class:P
hard grail
What you'r saying isnt relevant to anything I asked, or fitting @dire spoke
plain thistle
wtf.
dire spoke
You shouldn't play rogue if you can't / don't want to handle three specs imo
also nobody knows
plain thistle
why are you guys attacking him? he just asked a question, he doesnt want to level a toon because its fucking boring or he doesnt have time for it
hard grail
Thank you @plain thistle It's knowledge from the forums that these clowns just attack people that come to ask something
Makes them feel alpha
dire spoke
question has been answered, yet there are more questions of the same nature 🤷🏻
amber sleet
wheat zealot
The poison makes us extra toxic
plain thistle
if its a question that is beeing asked often just pin the answer and use the 
yes, beta is beta and things can change easily
royal lantern
like i said: rogue is atleast always ´´allright´´, but nobody REALLY knows how stuff will be when the 1 raid tier opens, we cant tell you if assasination will be the best spec, example, in ToS sub was the best spec, in antorus it was assasination, stuff changes
dire spoke
^ basically what I said
You shouldn't play rogue if you can't / don't want to handle three specs imo(edited)
also nobody knows
right now assasination is a safe bet, but nobdy knows how it will be in 2 months
lofty junco
i think legion sub is the spec i don't want to play.
undone adder
hmm
hard grail
Again, I didnt ask you if assas will be the best spec. I never asked that. You people dont read. I literally said, do you think assas will be decent enough for BFA that I dont need to play Sub. That isnt me asking if assas is the best, or askign you to answer that question. Dont answer my question if you cant even read what I asked
royal lantern
legion sub was fun, bfa sub is BM hunter lvl retarded:(
lofty junco
WoD sub>legion sub
wheat zealot
In the beginning sin will not be preferred due to the lack of haste
lyric glen
ass and outlaw dont exactly require a physics degree to play
lofty junco
progressed BRF with suba and it was fun, but the new sub that camed with elgionw as just a joke
wheat zealot
That 30 apm gonna feel real good
royal lantern
assasination will be really good later in the expac when we get higher secondary stats overall
more crit=more combo points, haste for dots n stuff
wheat zealot
Yeah thats how it always is
plain thistle
@hard grail yes, sin will probably be fine, if you disregard all numbers and damage because that they can tune up or down. sin is very "mechanic friendly" and its good for cleave and AoE (crimson tempest ftw), we will be fine, dont worry.
royal lantern
and its rogue, raid leaders love rogue's cus they can handle shit better then other melee dps classes
feint and cloak ftw
plain thistle
single target right now sub is better, for BfA simulation, but that can change as well
hard grail
Thank you again. As I said also, numbers aside, I just wanted to know if assas had a kit to be good in M+ vs outlaw.. Thanks buddy 😃 @plain thistle
supple mesa
I’d assume our lower st has to do with our lack of resource regen
royal lantern
and kidneyshot/blind/massstealth, kit is almost perfect for m+
plain thistle
probably not the best burst AoE tho, but crimson tempest feels so good 😂
dire spoke
I just find "will I have fun" questions weird
plain thistle
yeah, without T21 energy regen is noticeable slower
hard grail
Who asked you if they'll have fun?
wheat zealot
There should be an azerite trait for energy regen imo
hoary copper
Numbers have a lot to do with if they will be "good" or "decent" though so we have no idea with tuning
they may have an awesome kit and get nerfed to oblivion
We could be the next ret pally for all we know
spriest
shrewd night
@hard grail Its pretty simple. If all you are going to do is equivalent to todays +15s, play whatever you find the most enjoyable. If you are going to PUSH keys, you have to learn all three specs, because thats what we have available. The joys of going into a multispec dps-class.
hard grail
Ok 😃 I will maybe practice sub for a bit
hoary copper
you just need to 🥄 the answer they want and say yes to everything
dire spoke
Auzi also has a problem with me since we first met, because I'm never helpful I guess
calm grail
Anyone have a set of just Debuff tracking WA's for sin? Don't need a whole suite.
Like CT/Rupture/Garrote
still steeple
Why not make them yourself if you're not looking for a suite?
fickle grail
Or just get a suite and delete the ones you don't want
dire spoke
or use an other addon
quartz depot
or just count in your head
lofty junco
that wasn't nice^^
thin shale
When is assassination getting better than Outlaw?
plain thistle
🤔
wheat zealot
Who needs weakauras or a meter when you can just do the math in your head
thin shale
Cuz right now, if I pop all my cd's and dots and stuff outlaw doesn't care about that and kills me
lofty junco
ya talking about pvp? it sounds like that
lofty junco
beter ask that in the pvp channel i think they can more be accurate in that case^^
thin shale
On low level every class with self healing can heal through my dots, even if I stun them a lot
True true
autumn grotto
Hello all
thin shale
Hello
lofty junco
wasn't assa everytime pvp broken?^^
autumn grotto
Just joined this discord to find useful information
thin shale
There's a lot of information to find here ^^
lofty junco
and helpful people if ya not ask the wrong question xP
lofty junco
but i must said he is better then others. he have a assa colour so he had read^^
agile tulip
guys, at 4 cps do I mut or do I use a finisher/
shrewd night
Finisher
agile tulip
okay, thanks
lofty junco
if my garrote is a few seconds away from pandemic i wait that time and then use it to have a 5cp envenom
or wait 1-2 seconds for TB to get off CD with 3 CP to have 5 CP'`s
i'm open for thoughts^^
dapper moat
zempai, by EP you mean?
dire spoke
TB's initial hit can get buffed by EP, yes
solid nova
Elaborate Planning - The talent.
dapper moat
ah ty guys
dire spoke
oh
dapper moat
i am bad with acronymes 😄
dire spoke
I didn't get that slang
cosmic sentinel
What neck enchant do we use?
civic palm
Satyr or Claw
trim haven
vapid moth
lol
vapid moth
when some dude kills you but youre sin and 15 seconds later you gain 15 honor
supple hearth
@trim haven
lone junco
@bronze topaz yes you can track that subterfuge open with garrote, and unless you are vanish garroting during pandemic, i let it tick to the end.
tame glen
Anyone discover a good PvP spec for Ass?
Seems very strong in the burst department atm
bitter pine
can someone tell me how to sim.. changing pots?
whenever i sim.. it uses prolongued.. but i want to sim with old war T_T
bronze topaz
@lone junco i am not this good in weakauras. du you have this wa? 😄
lone junco
@bitter pine
bitter pine
thank u
bronze topaz
thank you very much
exotic glen
noobe
lone junco
ayy
lone junco
yep
exotic glen
hype
civic palm
O _O"
civic palm
👋
lone junco
I heard notters wa was all tiny and hard to see.
so this one is substantially better
no offense 🐰
north terrace
tbh it's not even his anyways, someone else made it and he made some small adjustments and rereleased it >>
civic palm
or don't sell them and make them effectively open source.
exotic glen
@civic palm im shite at WA so just asking but i dont think its a problem
can i just remove your combo points wa in the group
or does it affect anything
civic palm
Yeah if you don't want it just delete it.
exotic glen
aight cool ty
civic palm
Nothing is dependent on anything else.
lone junco
@exotic glen I just left the stuff in there just clicked load never.
for the CPS, the E, the swing timer. but the rest is pretty nice
lone junco
Can a weak area report bleed tick rates? I'd like to see 1.2s in lust. Current target tracking garrote is fine?
civic palm
¯_(ツ)_/¯
I can see there being one that takes you current haste rating and it applies it to whatever base tick rate rupture/garrote/etc. has.
lone junco
Prob irrelevant data. But i def could get a sephuz tracker
lone junco
But a proc based high haste trinket would be nice to track for exang use on proc.
civic palm
IIRC there's a way to just show your current haste rating.
lone junco
My apl has some float on the 2nd exang timing.
lone junco
I don't feeeel like exang desync with vendetta /vanish is a good idea. That gives a delay. Aka proc based float.
civic palm
Fuckin look at this shit https://wago.io/r1r3x5edG
lone junco
Probably good for steam review.
civic palm
But if you are going to be interested in procs due to haste being important, just having your current haste tracked should work fine.
lone junco
Sounds good.
civic palm
and there's a LOT of WA's that you can just grab the haste tracking from I imagine.
lone junco
Was nice to see haste at like 58% on argus tho
true rapids
Best leveling legendaries? Shoulders and kj's trinket?
strange python
probably shoulders, sephuz, and kj's are the only ones that stand out.
tranquil sedge
Meme me on staying sin over rolling fotm fury! (I Mained sin all xpac )
Will I be able to play sin in mythic 16+?
strange python
a) I don't think fury is fotm and b) I don't see why not
you can play any spec in 16+.
bronze spindle
Whats with shoulders? For me they were either 25% or 100%
eager haven
In pvp they’re 25% crit increase
vernal mauve
Has anyone noticed a % in haste that we want to aim for now?
vernal mauve
I keep simming for the top gear and it says my equipped is my best. But I'm around 10% haste
lost horizon
Ilvl counts for a lot, check your stat weights you probably still want haste just other pieces are too low
Or link the sim for better insight
vernal mauve
I will once I get to my computer.
fleet forum
So I know everyone is going to say sim it. But What do you guys suggest i get haste to? Right now my stats are crit-30% haste-28% mastery-37% vers-10%
Just thinking what to enchant rings
Also is sytr better now?
civic palm
Sim it to find your stat weights, then enchant w/e is your highest stat.
Satyr I think is simming better for most people.
desert orchid
how do you add both talents to raidbot if you have soul?
wet yew
Raidbots see's it automatically when you equip the talent ring
desert orchid
it should list it in the results then right?
b/c on the results it shows you the talents it used
wet yew
Probably, yes
desert orchid
but it didn't show it when I ran it with that
wet yew
Do you see how much energy you have in the stats tab? It should show higher than 100
desert orchid
let me run it again and see
I know the talents just show the single, let me check the energy
vigor isn't listed in the dynamic buffs
combat end resource does show 142.64
I'm basically trying to figure out if soul outweighs my other lego combos
yea, trying to find a good jack of all trade
doing m+ high key runs tonight
last week I did it without ct
was wandering how ct would stack up to pb
and whether mp, ep, or blindside plays into that along with ns and sub
then, if soul outweighs sephuz in thpse
yea, then is ep better than mp?
and I see some people saying ns, yet some swear sub
then, I'd think if you are using ct and with the number of finishers, I'd think soul, which lets you take both vigor and ds, would outweigh sephuz at some point
yea, I think the big difference is between ns and sub right?
but it goes back to, with garrote being so strong
more than rolling 4 garrotes?
see, I was looking at insig and soul
or insig and seph
or seph and soul
I was thinking soul, with virgor and ds would be pretty strong
wind saffron
is there sims for racials or so close dont matter?
civic palm
yes
wind saffron
..
civic palm
Yes is the answer to both of those opposing questions.
silent falcon
what will be better for pve / mythic+ rogue or warrior ?
civic palm
We're biased so...
silent falcon
lol true
civic palm
either are probably fine.
wind saffron
THANKS
fresh robin
what leggos are rogues preferring atm?
ripe yew
I like prydaz
civic palm
fresh robin
was looking for opinions 😛
civic palm
Why?
fresh robin
robots are great but nothing beats personal experience?
civic palm
For opinions sure.
ripe yew
tired thistle
So i s4 set still required in Pre patch?
patent saddle
Is Eye of command still BIS trinket for m+? or should i keep scourgewing/moonglaives
ripe yew
Not sure where to ask but is the gold transfer cap now 1mil?
civic palm
elder trench
isnt fan of knifes gives u more CP on multi target ? cus i'm not getting any
civic palm
Fan of Knives only generates 1CP + 1 per crit.
elder trench
oh that is sub thing only then
civic palm
Yeah Shuriken Storm is 1CP per target hit.
quaint hawk
https://i.imgur.com/rIS5KZ7.png lol creeping venom op in battlegrounds
civic palm
uhhuh
elder trench
Melee O_O
supple hearth
ur garrote damage is very low
are u even using it more than once
that's literally my opening damage
supple hearth
My garrote and creeping are both usually up in 200K+ ea
With deadly and fok close behind
Well..not close
chilly oasis
Is there a "softcap" for a haste Singletarget wise? Or we should pump every enchant and socket into haste
I'm currently at 41crit, 22haste and 44mastery
subtle lodge
Has there been any recent hotfixes so far?
civic palm
Some people are seeing Crit gaining weight after 27% haste.
So just check after every large gain in Haste.
chilly oasis
Particulary talking about this guy
Look at his equipment
So, the thing You are saying might be especially true
Are there any charts for the stat weights?
civic palm
...ok.
Sim yourself on raidbots and figure it out.
Will depends entirely on what you currently have equipped.
chilly oasis
I can see stats weights in the sim?
civic palm
WCL must report stats wrong as his haste or crit seems low, anyway.
Sim yourself and figure out where your Weights are. Yeah just chose the weights on the homepage.
frozen pecan
choose stat weights at the start page
civic palm
frozen pecan
^
civic palm
Yeah.
frozen pecan
Ye i got rid of plenty of things that would be useful now but whatever it won't matter in 2 weeks
chilly oasis
So, based on the result, correct me if I'm wrong, I should put on more haste, sim myself again, and look how stats are going to react with new thing on character, right?
frozen pecan
yes
tight meteor
if youre comparing gear sets you can use the top gear option as well
chilly oasis
And after changing that desired piece of gear and simming it, aim for the top weight stat, whether it is agi, crit or haste?
frozen pecan
always aim for the top 2 stats
chilly oasis
And basically checking how the weights are going to behave after getting item into those top 2 stats, right?
frozen pecan
exactly
In general if you get a new piece sim it, see if it's a dps increase, look at your new weights
chilly oasis
And aim for next 2 top stats
frozen pecan
ye but even if you don't get the top 2 stats sim the new piece and see if it's an increase
chilly oasis
of the dps, of course
I just had a bit of talk with a friend, and was super curious why this rogue on logs used more of a crit enchants and gems instead of haste, so this is really helpful
Thanks again for the help!
digital moss
what spec is doing more DPS assasination or sub?
chilly oasis
check pinned message
dire spoke
limber pilot
boys what legos do you prefer to use for mythic+?
quiet ginkgo
sephu'z secret worth it for the haste?
bitter halo
you guys which legendary is the best for going into bfa leveling/dungeons?
i have shoulders atm
bitter halo
hmmm?
i haven't really played rogue much (mained warrior since vanilla) only deciding to change now
so i'm not really sure
shrewd night
It doesnt really change my answer, but there are several examples of builds in the pins.
quiet ginkgo
If I understand it right, sephuz procs when garrote does its silence. Am I right?
warm parcel
Ye
quiet ginkgo
Nice, I just realized it now lol
But what I don't quite understand is, how does the insignia help in ST? I can't sim at the moment to see which is better.
civic palm
Stats
flint jetty
And it also still hits the maintarget with shadow dmgs too
quiet ginkgo
Oh okay thanks.
vagrant marlin
spring zephyr
jovial kite
No
oblique pendant
I have question that bothers me and i don't know if I should trust sims
civic palm
p_p
oblique pendant
If I have low ilvl t21 piece and highest possible ilvl that goes to the same slot will set still be better? lower agi/secondary etc
civic palm
The SIMs take that into account.
oblique pendant
im just wondering how good 4set is in current state of the game 😄
supple mesa
Idk do you like energy
warm parcel
Sim shows you how good it is
solid nova
Sims will take into account the loss of your 4pc vs item level stats
warm parcel
So just go by it
solid nova
Its accurate.
oblique pendant
if you say so
oblique pendant
are you 🎸 ?
civic palm
o _o
oblique pendant
i wasn't sure so wanted to ask people who would rather know the drill
supple mesa
If 4set wasn’t good people wouldn’t use it 😂
solid nova
!warn @oblique pendant Emotes are not a work around server rules. You've been here long enough to know better.
chrome tuskBOT
Alright, @oblique pendant has been warned because 'Emotes are not a work around server rules. You've been here long enough to know better.'.
shrewd night
If it wasnt good, it wouldnt sim well 
supple mesa
Richard you savage
oblique pendant
xD
supple hearth
🥄
shrewd night
supple mesa
🍌
shrewd night
Giggle should pay someone to animate her avatar tbh
solid nova
Zempai would do it for free.
shrewd night
@dire spoke
dire spoke
when Giggle sees I'm writing https://media.giphy.com/media/X8cjSrhB2rYF7GFEwz/giphy.gif
supple hearth
😍
shrewd night
Animate barf or RIOT
vernal atlas
hahaha it was creative tho @oblique pendant
pale heart
my eyes
vestal wren
i would say somone is in love with garrote
dire spoke
nice log without context
vestal wren
i assume its coven mythic, but not sure why there is no ct
odd tundra
Lol 4 garrote before like anything
dire spoke
I would understand 3, but not 4
odd tundra
How come three just out of interest
dire spoke
you have three seconds of subterfuge
lofty junco
eventualy that is the tick not the cast
odd tundra
Oh yeah 6 guess?
vestal wren
its not a big loss to garrote 2 times on the same target in the opener
still why would i do that
lofty junco
i think he used it to have 2 max uptime powered garrote on both shivaras
odd tundra
Oh yeh
lofty junco
or dogs
lofty junco
not so much BS on 2 boss targets i think
vestal wren
dogs might make sense ye
lofty junco
dogs or coven i think
lofty junco
atleast we only can think about something , but without any context we have no iedea what he had wanted to show us with that^^
warm parcel
You know its an ancient one cause it has t20 and vial
lofty junco
ah hadn't see that trinket in the first view^^
dire spoke
@pale heart source of gtfo
lofty junco
get the ... out?^^
placid egret
I wanna see the point as well
lofty junco
we all i asume Sayo^^
supple mesa
It would make sense on desolate host kind of
lofty junco
yeah but why he/she/it post so a old thing^^
warm parcel
No bully yago
supple mesa
Actually it wouldn’t make sense no fok
Also to use vanish for rupture would imply he’s playing with me if we were to try and make it logical
lofty junco
and its a log from before prepatch
supple mesa
Ns*
lofty junco
nothing makeing sense until he/she/it said something cause only let that picture here but said nothing anymore^^
odd tundra
It worked though tbh
hardy atlas
Potion of prolonged power vs potion of old war who will win ?
dire spoke
you can simulate these options on raidbots.com https://snag.gy/YOKW69.jpg
still horizon
bis legos for m+ ?
lofty junco
still horizon
obviously, im asking what others are using and their thoughts
lofty junco
like anytime that question is asked its depends on ya gear. the legos that we used with our gear can be very crap for ya
still horizon
true, but it could also work
dire spoke
that rule doesn't really apply to m+ tbh
shrewd night
Why use sims when you can just use your feelings in regards to what to equip
supple mesa
Sephuz shoulders works best for me which is also nutty in m+ I’m a lucky duxk
sleek iron
Process question. The 100% increase to garrote msg is not only in stealth right? I’m without shoulders now and just checking if I need to use vanish at all anymore
Dmg instead of msg 😃
And using subterfuge instead of Nightstalker
lofty junco
100% only in stealth with SF
lofty junco
yeah and that 3 seconds after right
sleek iron
Ah ok I thought it was flat 100% dmg
lofty junco
wtf that wouzld be realy OP
sleek iron
The garrote dmg increase with subterfuge talent > I thought it was a flat garrote dmg increase
supple mesa
Ya no lol
sleek iron
Hahaha thanks
lofty junco
its written in the tooltip of SF^^
sleek iron
It makes sense.. all you guys mentioning vanish > garrote to refresh it
lofty junco
with 100% flat dmg we would be unbeaten xD
grave pagoda
hey, just got one pice of the hidden artifact wepon for outlaw even tho i was playing sin, should it be possible to get both halfs in another spec than outlaw ?
jagged elk
hey guys!
is there any possibility to track empowered garrotes (by subterfuge) with a WA? i would really appreciate it
weak isle
yes there is
jagged elk
and how? 😃
dire spoke
you'll need a custom function or handle it with at least three triggers
jagged elk
what would the three triggers be?
garrote, subterfuge and?
exotic glen
supposedly its difficult to make @jagged elk
i'd recommend asking in the official WA discord instead
dire spoke
no
exotic glen
a guildie made it sort of work yesterday
dire spoke
no one has it because they all played mantle-ns like slaves
exotic glen
but i had to leave before he was done so idk if the WA is finished
so its possible but difficult i would guess
shrewd night
Oh, I thought Miz talked about it earlier in regards to his own wa
exotic glen
yeah he did
jagged elk
so i made one with the 3 triggers like @dire spoke told me, its a good idea! but how can i make it to still load the WA, even when the subterfuge buff runs out?
exotic glen
but im guessing that the tracking he used broke
dire spoke
@jagged elk you either figure it out like some people did or check out wago.io
this is not WA school, if you need help visit the WeakAuras Discord
have fun 
shrewd night
Tosic
warm parcel
All old auras should work when you just change the aura check variables
Thats what they changed in lua
white panther
could some1 tell me the opener for outlaw ?
white panther
Thanks
pallid hound
Just a question, what spec are you planning to play? Im thinking about assa but not sure yet
plucky oak
sweet pecan
it is not possible as far as i know
dire spoke
@plucky oak yes, you'll need a custom function or handle it with at least three triggers
sweet pecan
ive been thinking about a method using a check if you are stealthed and used garrote, and then just put a timer for the garrote duration, but it wont really work with my usual method 😛
pallid hound
I always loved assa but I was PvP player back then, I wanna come back to rogue as its my fav class but can't decide sad face
round harbor
Rogue is a good choice
@still horizon idk if it's bis, but I found cloak and shoulders to be a great combo of mongo aoe burst, and St dmg as needed
For the aoe packs, the cloak gives up front burst and allows you to CT right away after
Or if you already are full combo points going into the next pack you can CT out of stealth then FoK during crit window
I really like the synergy of it
dire spoke
no pejoratives pls
coral moon
i cant find the best pvp war mode talents for the life of me, they all cater to pve as well, anyone know the best warmode talents for pure pvp?
coral moon
oops missed that one
dire spoke
yeah there are not many minigame players so this is the important channel
prime void
zemp
dire spoke
@abstract yacht you need as much as your simulations tell you
prime void
There are no traditional haste breakpoints for sin @abstract yacht
So I don't understand why 25% would be some magical number
Ofc at high numbers of haste you're going to start to see high DRs
I found my replacement for rogue today @dire spoke
Trialing him and really hope he pops tf off
dire spoke
why you do this to me
prime void
We're really lacking inthe ranged department
So I figured I'd throw em on the back you feel ?
abstract yacht
Thanks
abstract yacht
True.
lofty junco
tree lovel as a N11 doesn't count as boomie^^
hmm nice got a new ring and now can switch my dual rings out^^ https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/a1Z2B3Xn8HGAb3iVuR4GyP
limber pilot
boys
limber pilot
not being funny but i read somewhere that i shouldnt use crippling poison is there any logic in that?
lone junco
Some people don't want cripple for sanguine due to heal component
wheat zealot
Obviously if you dont wants mobs slowed dont use crip, simple.
viscid pawn
do u like the aoe of assa? i find it rly hard to track all the dots
lone junco
@prime void its a good moment for sin
thats my garothi from this week
my uptimes were shit due to broken wa. so I shoulda been higher. but holy crap Pbomb is shit.
pallid hound
Got small question, any idea what talents to use to do some stuff?
like M+
or raids?
exotic glen
Are you not playing rogue anymore? @prime void
lone junco
lone junco
its in the pins
viscid pawn
do i rupture every mob? or is there a cap of monsters that i want to rupture?
vernal atlas
3x rupture 3x garrote
lone junco
I stop at 2 or 3 and transition to Crimson Tempest spam.
lone junco
If it were a full council fight, you could probably maintain on 3
vernal atlas
In most multitargets mobfights you won't really have the time to keep it refreshed, unless really high m+ or multitarget bosses
viscid pawn
cause on the site it says rupture on all targets
lone junco
Do you use Ct, y/n?
viscid pawn
^ct
warm parcel
I just literally posted 5 messages up
CT takes prio over rup
After that rupture anything that moves
violet yew
Playing ct in m+ I don't know how I feel about using it on bosses
viscid pawn
when do i use ct? on 3+ mobs? or even 2 mobs?
lone junco
I have a hard time answering that. Because in m+ sephuz proc on the open would be nice for Ct
violet yew
Yeah, I've not even looked at my overall ct damage Vs a nice juicy envem. I might math it later. But yeah a sephuz boosted one.
vernal atlas
unless there are a ton of mobs that live really long, I never play CT, but I guess thats also preference. I just love pumping out the insane numbers on bosses
violet yew
Going to try swapping my pantheon out for my 970 gorshalach as well. In 5 man it should be better.
wheat zealot
Poison bomb does like nothing, so youre really not losing much single target with CT
lone junco
2T specifically. Subterfuge. Garrote rupture garrote rupture mut(4) Ct.
But that's all m+
Which outlaw seems >>>
violet yew
I'm liking all three specs tbh. Feels nice atm. Just hope it's the same at 120
lone junco
I could delete sub and not care.
The other two are plenty
For me, things will be simpler. Have a raw st, 2T set for sin. Have a bulk trash for outlaw.
abstract yacht
Never really liked sub as well
But yeah outlaw seems a lot more useful for m+ sadly
lone junco
Once the mobs live beyond the Blade flurry uptimes, then CT is >>
and whether your group has a snare.
vernal atlas
according to sims, outlaw currently beats us also in single target.
Just found some up to date sims from the uldir raid. text is in german, but that doesn't really matter since the numbers speak for themselves
https://wow.4fansites.de/news,7740,Battle-for-Azeroth-DPS-Ranking-der-Klassen.html
violet yew
It's legion all over again. Saddle up parseboiz.
nocturne gate
reroll fury ?
strange python
Meh. If it's not from here, I don't trust it.
vernal atlas
nope, its bfa! not legion
violet yew
They're gonna fuck shadow priest up in 8.1 I'm calling it now.
scarlet oyster
Can't fuck up what's already fucked up
vernal atlas
as someone who speaks and understands german, I can assure you that it seems very plausible and legit! but everyone has to decide for himself 😉
violet yew
Yeah you can just make it viable by overturning it for a tier
solid nova
I wouldn't trust anything that comes from any basis from AMR.
solid nova
^
warm parcel
Just from havoc side of things, I know they sim for several thousand more dps
vernal atlas
the difference between amr and simc is not big enough in percentages to make weak classes seem strong and the other way atound
warm parcel
Simply disagree
nocturne gate
every "simulation" before release is stupid and timewasting ^^
warm parcel
And that amr isnt worth anyones time
Those links do not even take you to the results of the sims
They are random screen shots
There is no data behind them
The havoc sims is a pandaren
dire spoke
german wow sources are all shite
solid nova
It's also got a discrepancy of +/- 12.5% on every sim, which is just a ridiculous excuse to produce inaccurate figures.
vestal wren
nice try amr, nice try
sand whale
lemme get mah photoshop and create some sims
jk I'm sure that guy did some sims on whatever thing he came up with
dire spoke
It's a big issue for many ppl who cant read english, I know quite a few germans who don't get accurate Info
warm parcel
With profiles that are far from finished
We could do the same with simc
Its just useless and misleading info
And we have not even had bfa
And the balance patches that come out after
dire spoke
Then they write an article "we had Simulations and classes were fine and now they're so bad with update"
warm parcel
It is also important that we carry a fast weapon in the shield hand, because we generate more energy by the passive ability combat power with a fast weapon.
Not even correct info either
dire spoke
I told you
warm parcel
Cant remember
dire spoke
@shrewd night you had that nick Name, no?
dire spoke
Oh yeah
vestal wren
german 🤔
vernal atlas
yah, thinking about switching to an international server..... there is hardly a worse community than the german one, in regards of skill and behaviour
vestal wren
no german client has "jump off the shovel" if you translate it directly into english
vestal wren
yes i was refering to that
vernal atlas
I always get triggered when they post the german spellnames, always shows that they got no clue about the game
we got a lot of 240+ assas who still stack mastery and call you a cheater for doing 1k more dps than they are doing, while only having 220
... and still complaining about russian and french players. I can't imagine it can be worse over there xD
vestal wren
You would not believe what surprises you get from m+ groups in the tool (w/e of language)
but ye i think some have a bad reputution for a reason
vernal atlas
thats why I never run m+ via tool :p
doing nhc and hc raiding with tool already triggers me enough
vestal wren
i mean the sad fact is that the majority of tool groups are boost groups
so you need to life with the fact that you will need to carry some folks
vernal atlas
yah its sad
vestal wren
its a natural evolution of the content
what is sad is that ppl in m+ often have no clue about the instance bosses etc.
vernal atlas
I still think that there should be ingame ratings, to determine someones skill... there are 250+ player who simply can't ply the game
vestal wren
besides basic class knowlage on how to peform their rotation
vernal atlas
you are lucky if they atleast know their class xDD
dire spoke
why is it sad when there are returners
vestal wren
there is m+ score but i dont see that rating as meaningfull
well its not sad that there are returners
vernal atlas
we are not talking about returners
minor mulch
What's a returner
dire spoke
but you assume everybody should know the content
vernal atlas
someone who made a long break and comes back to the game
vestal wren
but if you join a +21 only mains with experience and have a 970 dh peforming under 1 mio in EoA its sad
and things like that are not uncommon
vernal atlas
So, if someone joins any M+ with 15 or higher - yes I do assume they know the content! And yes, I do get mad if they don't!
but the funniest are the tanks that can't keep aggro any longer.... as a tank in wotlk it always makes me laugh
vernal atlas
depends
its a preference question and also depending on how high the key is and what the modifiers are
I myself only go crimson tempest if I know that I will encounter long trashfights with constantly 3+ mobs
pallid hound
oh, im coming back to wow after 6 month break and around whole expansion break from rogue :p
vernal atlas
you are coming back at the right time! rogue is in a good spot and especially assassination and outlaw are feeling really good and fun to play
dire spoke
Hate on him, He doesnt know his class
warm parcel
Yea Id use CT whenever I actually wanna hit more than just a single boss
vernal atlas
Why? he didn't sign up for a hc raid or high m+ :p
warm parcel
So anywhere from council boss to m+
vernal atlas
I'd love if more people would come to a class specific community first and say "hey I did a long break, what's going o with my class". I see nothing wrong with that. Good behavior imo! 👌
trim bobcat
TIL Garrote lost its stealth requirement, was that a BFA change?
dire spoke
I just wanted to trigger you
vernal atlas
... online communities ... 😩
keen inlet
@trim bobcat No, it was a Legion change
trim bobcat
Shit, really?
dire spoke
hello
wheat zealot
vocal wave
So will crimson tempest always be a dps increase over rupture on 2+ mobs, or will it require 3 mobs to reach its full potential? I'll check the numbers at home, but I'm out atm
versed finch
Anyone that pvps, do you use sin or change to sub and if you stay sin what kinda talents and rotation do you do?
dire spoke
You only rupture for energy
vocal wave
So that means on a 2+ mob fight, CT will always be a dps increase over rupture?
warm parcel
Raidbots usually tells you to do something, yes
You can have both dots
CT still being #1 in prio
sand whale
you always want to rupture regardless after applying CT
brazen garden
you can rupture and CT?
vernal atlas
yes you can
dire spoke
wheat zealot
brazen garden
Are you sure rupture isnt a talent on the last row
vocal wave
Aye I know you can have both, but I mean does CT only become a #1 prior when there are 3+ mobs, or if its also #1 prior on 2+ targets
vernal atlas
no, you got me! you are right. rupture is totally a talent on the last row. sorry for misleading you
warm parcel
As soon as there are 2 targets you want to primarly dps, yes CT takes over prio
But lets say its an add not too important that spawns during an m+ boss
I woudlnt ct that
Just rup for more boss dps
shrewd night
Are we being memed rn
vocal wave
Alright. I'm coming back from ffxiv where sometimes aoe isn't worth using on 2+ targets, but only starts becoming worth it on 3+.
dire spoke
You only rupture for energy
vocal wave
So which is why I thought I'd just ask to make sure that that train of thought isn't followed here
warm parcel
Well see if they change that in a tuning patch later on
vocal wave
Alright
warm parcel
Its the same with fok
We were told in beta they wanna make it worth at 3+
Buut well see
jovial kite
whats happening here 
pallid hound
sorry was afk, Thank you very much everyone who helped me with when to use crimson ❤
frail gate
anyone good at theorycrafting able to let me bounce some numbers off them and tell me if and how I am wrong?
ocean nebula
how much overall dps u guys got om 20-24 keys?
dire spoke
All of it
hoary copper
Probably dont need to theorycraft, its probably been done
strange python
my WA for garrote+rupture poison tracking doesnt work anymore. Anyone knows why? I use Ipse's Rogue WA
And its the same story with the dot u have in sublety aswell 😦
vernal atlas
check the load conditions maybe somethng got messed up. did you recently update WA2??
also check the debuff ID (though a change there is very unlikely)
hoary copper
It probably hasnt been updated since it has changed. You will probably have to delete it and get the new one. I think its been updated but I didnt use that one
strange python
Thank you boys, ill try right now if anything works
vernal atlas
for the old spells my old WAs were still working but after an update for weakauras2 my load conditions got completely screwed
hoary copper
some spell IDs were changed too, but I didnt really look
vernal atlas
yah its most likely something easy to fix
devout vapor
anybody can tell me where i can get weakauras for assasin?
sterile marten
https://wago.io/weakauras/classes/rogue/assassination @devout vapor
tropic mango
Well, translated in ENG Nurseous Rogue WA
vernal atlas
Or make them yourself, benefits are getting an even better understanding of the skills, know how everything works (in case something breaks) and customize it as much as you like
tropic mango
True enough
dire spoke
Work with IDs
wild zodiac
hello, when do I use TB
dire spoke
Yes
wet yew
Some of you guys using tmw instead of WA for tracking garrote and rupture ?
hoary copper
Nope
dire spoke
Some of the 16k do
wet yew
Well specifically asking to help me setup the tracking for the "empowered" garrote and rupture to change the icon color or smth like that so I don't loose track of it
unkempt gulch
do u not use auras above nameplates?
dire spoke
my feeling says it's not supported If it doesnt do that by Default, but I could be wrong
wet yew
Using standard nameplates since tidyplates got abandoned
I might try kui tho, heard they were good
unkempt gulch
thats KUI with auras disabled and using FlyPlateBuffs instead
allows u to resize individual debuffs
dire spoke
whats the empowered color?
unkempt gulch
empowered as when used from stealth?
dire spoke
Yeah
wet yew
That actually looks pretty good, I will try that
unkempt gulch
no color for that, i just use my brain
dire spoke
Thats not what was asked
wild zodiac
I made WA ages ago that tracked empowered garrotes and ruptures
unkempt gulch
It was not, but my solution is pretty good, not exactly what he wanted
wild zodiac
I have no idea who still has them tho
unkempt gulch
as u can see he said "it looks pretty good"
devout vapor
what do u think about toxic blade? its worth?
unkempt gulch
😛
wet yew
My question is still open tho, if someone has a solution to that
I rather stay at tmw if possible
But open to try new things
cosmic lance
When using Elaborate planning, is it better to go for maximum uptime (no clipping) or is it worth to lose a bit of uptime by clipping with envenom for more envenom damage?
strange python
clip envenom but it doesn't necessarily have an opportunity cost of uptime
clipping EP at 0.1 seconds left is virtually no different than 0 seconds left
cosmic lance
well there's bound to be a (small) uptime cost to clipping, that's why i 'm asking :)
ok - so clipping is good if i do it as close as possible?
strange python
yes
orchid cove
well if you clip it at 0.1 your envenom gets empowered and at 0sec it doesnt
so yes it matters lol
strange python
but know that if you clip over and over you will run out of steam eventually and will have to back off to the envenom buff for a bit, have to judge if you feel like you can chain EP for a while or not.
orchid cove
imo and thats just what i think, you should only clip EP during TB windows
outside its pretty minimal
at least thats what i think
cosmic lance
might be minimal, still i would like to try what's best for dps
thanks for the answers :)
dire spoke
yw xoxo
viscid pawn
are u guys actually using crimson tempest? i feel like its a bit lack luster
lone junco
when you pull 5-50 mobs, you should see a substantial improvement over PB or FokBlades
it is a spam ability in fat trash
sweet shard
Seems good on mythic eonar and hc rn
lone junco
not true in big packs
gusty plinth
vernal atlas
you do? interesting
lone junco
its not a single target talent.
vernal atlas
definitely
lone junco
if you pulled 10x.
Sephuz, Subterfuge. Garrote Garrote Rupture fok ct fok ct fok ct fok ct
vernal atlas
but I wasn't aware that you keep spamming it, I thought you just keep the debuff up... atleast thats what most guides are saying
lone junco
math goes like this. Hit value of Envenom, + dp application in fok. vs. low dp application rate for no env, plus CT hit value on ALL mobs.
once ct is up, do you env or ct?
does the CT hit value exceed 1 env?
warm parcel
at some point prolly
vernal atlas
thats the question
lone junco
but what people do on 27-30 probably doesnt apply to anyone asking the questions.
I actually liked Sephuz/ Vig(DS) when you pull big, fok for 6, with plenty of E
wild zodiac
@warm parcel yeh I know they broken, I deleted them on mine when updating addons
weak bobcat
Do i want to reapply rupture after activating vendetta ?
strange python
your dots dynamically update
lone junco
@warm parcel seliathan had mentioned the vig was nice for bosses and in the transition between packs. there was some reason. but in M+ there are a lot of conditions.
lone junco
the even at 4/5 cps the DS CT is nice.
but pretty sure the single become trash without vig. so Its a nice combination since we cant change gear anymore
lusty coral
hey guys quick question, if youre at 4cp with toxic blade on cd do you envenom anyway? or do you overcap with another mutilate
dire spoke
use finishers at 4+
lusty coral
ty
dire spoke
yw xoxo
turbid wren
Hey all, In the BFA guide in the Pins it has
(Garrote – Mutilate – Mutilate – Rupture – Vendetta – Toxic Blade -…- Vanish – Garrote with ~6 sec remaining on Garrote)
as our single target opener. What is the "-...-" between vanish and toxic blade?
strange python
It just means do the normal rotation and then Vanish when the first Garrote has about 6 seconds left.
turbid wren
Ahhh, thanks a bunch!
strange python
vendetta- TB- mut-env-mut-Garrote with ~6 sec remaining on Garrote)
Vanish – Garrote with ~6 sec remaining on Garrote)
Garrote – Mutilate – Mutilate – Rupture – Vendetta – Toxic Blade -mut-env-mut- Vanish – Garrote with ~6 sec remaining on Garrote
dire spoke
strange python
What is happening in here
dire spoke
feelycraft
strange python
hidden merlin
hey guys got a question. When you proc mutilate for full cp do you still use pb with full cp or do you dump them first than go for pb
green bison
dire spoke
do you mean TB ?
hoary copper
Use finishers at 4+ CP
strange python
he probably meant the seal fate proc
dire spoke
ofc he means that, but that's not the core of the question
dire spoke
he's either embarrassed or offline
hidden merlin
tb sorry
dire spoke
if you have 4CP feel free to add in TB if you're not to starved for the following envenoms
hidden merlin
so no tb when 5cp
brisk forge
Nope, its generate cp
dense blaze
The pure melee DPS class is on top, feelsgood
hidden merlin
in the prepatch atleast
fallow cypress
I don't think we're on top anymore eh? isn't that ret pally, according to mythic parses in antorus
leaden oasis
hey guys my ilvl for my assass rogue is 187, is it normal to do little dps?
clear jacinth
hello guys sorry if this is a stupid question i'm very new to assassination but is it worth to pool energy to get a long streak of envenoms buffed by elaborate planning and inside the toxic blade window or is it kinda of w/e ?
strange python
Ret pally was on top because of the bugged darkmoon trinket that caused templar's verdict to cost no holy power.
And all those logs weren't deleted because reasons.
yes you want to clip EP with envenom.
but if you are new I'd imagine you might not have the crit/haste/tier to do so effectively. So try simming your best talent options.
clear jacinth
okay thank you for the info I usually play feral but figured assassination would be fun as an alt 😃 so still very noobish
EP sims the highest for me , i'm guessing rupture gets snapshotted by it as well? so should aim to get it in in all of them right?
supple mesa
You guys ever have an intense fight with your dog over space on your bed?
strange python
no snapshot, dots update dynamically
clear jacinth
oh okay ty 😃
strange python
@supple mesa maybe the folks in #off-topic have
supple mesa
I doubt t connor
strange python
you never know unless you ask
supple mesa
But I asked you connor
strange python
well the answer is no
supple mesa
Get a dog Connor
strange python
I have one
she is too small to jump on my bed.
nor I don't think she would want to be up there anyway.
torpid linden
does anyone ever meet their simdps? I sim for 4.4k but can only get 3.9k on dumies
evenwithlust
or do sims take monk debuff + warrior buff into account as well as prepots/flasks etc.
strange python
yes
torpid linden
that makes me feel better.
strange python
you can turn it off though.
hoary copper
If you open the report you can see whats included
torpid linden
I don't see the option to do that
nvm i see it now
yeah.. simming for 3.3k now. whew.
torpid linden
nature damage is magic damage, right?
bronze spindle
Does iLvl 210, prepatch daggers beat my 232 artifact daggers? The prepatch daggers has haste, which my artifact doesn't have.
Pawn says it's an upgrade, just wondering.
strange python
sim it
bronze spindle
Alright, will wait till I have 2 daggers
brisk forge
Buy from AH 👌🏻
bronze spindle
Soulbound 😛
prime stirrup
when am i going to get my color! i have a 100% parse, and rank 1 m+ for server
dire spoke
vestal wren
@prime stirrup read pins in #bot-spam
paper perch
dire spoke
lofty junco
there are no pins for elveling legendarys^^
strange python
mantle, sephuz, and kj's trinket are the ones that will probably stand out.
lofty junco
i would think sephuz, KJ, mantle are solid choices
strange python
😄
dire spoke
I would think mantle back
lofty junco
ya was to slow xD
prime stirrup
its so nice that sephuz procs on stealth garrote
makes clearing trash in things like upper ezpz
lofty junco
its procc with sapp too
prime stirrup
^^
lofty junco
yay antorus instance server are down
dire spoke
yay
prime stirrup
I got http://www.wowhead.com/item=137312/nightmare-egg-shell&bonus=3412:1496 the other day and it feels so great when it procs. but it hardly ever happens
hollow trench
Single target: haste > crit > mastery > vers
Multi target: crit > mastery > vers >= haste
how come haste goes from best to worst for AoE and will that be a gearing problem in BfA?
prime stirrup
its because you rely a lot more on garrote + rupture in aoe than mut +env
lofty junco
yay raid and dungeon server down -.-
supple lagoon
prime stirrup
I dont do enough pvp to really give a solid answer. I just leave TB on
its low cd with good dmg
supple hearth
@supple lagoon both are strong. Exang only good because garrote is overtuned. It's still prepatch and we will likely see tuning so play what works for now but no need to worry too much about the build as it will likely change in a few weeks
I've been playing exang personally though. But tb would be strong in arena
I see u asked as well in PvP so probably best to keep the discussion about it over there
plain thistle
@hollow trench part of haste value is auto attack and energy, for AoE you will be GCD capped and not energy capped (duo to venomous wound) and auto attacks are more important in single target than AoE.
true rapids
If I only have the nighthold 4 piece should I just ditch it in favor of higher ilvl pieces?