assassination

[civic palm]

Nice PUG find.

[echo estuary]

dang seliathan

you are now better than Tom confirmed

[civic palm]

In multiple ways :3

[marble hemlock]

already was before, i got 18 gearsets

[echo estuary]

so better = gearsets?

ugh this game

[marble hemlock]

its a meme

gotta meme

feeling like shit

need the memes to feel alive

[civic palm]

Sick or?

[marble hemlock]

nah

and now we wipe instantly to aggra 😄

[civic palm]

hahaha

[spare cloud]

@echo estuary

[echo estuary]

elo honey

[marble hemlock]

are there any good "no concordance on pull" memes btw?

[civic palm]

None that I have seen.

[marble hemlock]

always nice when the ns envenom crits for 5.8mil instead of 8.2

[civic palm]

Yeaaaaahhhhhhhh

[marble hemlock]

because no conc on pull 😦

[solemn vapor]

Is there any tip to not be "energy starved"? Or is it just feelycraft.

?

[marble hemlock]

its part of the gameplay

[civic palm]

Make sure your poisons are on, keep things bled.

[marble hemlock]

you wont be able to press a button every gcd

even if you do everything right

[civic palm]

Assassination isn't Enhancement, can't smash buttons.

[solemn vapor]

Ye, i know that from experience but i was wondering if there was any tip aside from making my enemies bleed from every pore

[lethal heart]

@marble hemlock told you

go pk on pull 👀

for guaranteed conc

[civic palm]

Well if they are not bleeding from literally every hole possible, then they could bleed more.

[solemn vapor]

Ohhh i see

Will try that

[marble hemlock]

triple bomb opener

[civic palm]

But if your poisons are up and things are bleeding, you're not getting more energy outside of getting T21 4p.

[marble hemlock]

and concordance is still on the back of the milk carton

[lethal heart]

i actually had naughtiest pull on vari ever

we wiped obv with that grp

but i think every dfa was concordance + crit

• i got to cleave some of the adds with my dfa aoe component

and that crit for like 3,7 too

[marble hemlock]

just sucks you know

[lethal heart]

yea

concordance rng is so important

[marble hemlock]

could have 9mil opener

instead you get 5

[lethal heart]

yep

you dont play shoulders though on raids

or do you?

[marble hemlock]

usually not, no

[lethal heart]

actually looks not worth for you

since you have triple shocklight

unless fight like kingaroth

[marble hemlock]

ye

well, its nice for pugraids

gotta assert your dominance on the meters early

[lethal heart]

felt so refreshing to play rogue

on raid

i was making a lot of stupid mistakes though

but felt good

actually doing monk damage sometimes 👀

[marble hemlock]

anyone around to blast some keys btw?

[lethal heart]

shitt weeek people so scared

[marble hemlock]

yeah

did some with zmok

[lethal heart]

yea

that 26 hov

was really solid though

[marble hemlock]

yeah that was really unlucky

ashix was a bit overzealous at the start

[lethal heart]

if i played more brave on skovald

and i had belt on odyn

because i fucked up my gearset

was in combat or sth

[marble hemlock]

unluck

[lethal heart]

and didnt change it

maybe

but that was like 1:10

but i think we had literally 0 deaths on hyrja

which was impressive part

[marble hemlock]

yup

was clean as fuck

[lethal heart]

super confident on hyrja now

actually

[marble hemlock]

was a good idea to go stamina flask so id get expel light instead of you

[lethal heart]

arcway trinket saved my ass twice

had 10 stacks of it

[marble hemlock]

whenever you got anything it was omegamonka

[lethal heart]

used them with expel on me

left with ~900k

but there was not a single point in fight

i'd be dead i think

zmok had always something for me

or i had my stuff for myself

[marble hemlock]

ye

zmok is actually insane

[lethal heart]

yea

[marble hemlock]

healing that shit with like 962 gear

[lethal heart]

he is really good

actually monk is tankier than people expect

you have to play 2 tank trinkets though rofl

[marble hemlock]

ye well

[lethal heart]

but i know as rogue i was always playing very safe aswell when i knew it mattered

like getting stuck on global

when arcing bolt is on you

makes you feel like retard

[marble hemlock]

youre still doing good dps

cause monk is broken

[lethal heart]

yep

but you're making it very c ompetetive

but i play monk to like 80% probably

whereas you play rogue to 100%

and i'm just rather a person that would rather play safe

because 99/100 times it isnt about dps

was actually suprised i managed to stay alive/not die to stupid shit on last boss coen 27 xD

i always insta proc cheat death as rogue there

because random bats idk

[marble hemlock]

^^

[lethal heart]

like ruski monk

does way more damage than me probably

[marble hemlock]

ye

[lethal heart]

actually i desperately need dogs trinket on my rogue rofl

[marble hemlock]

iq is a beast

[lethal heart]

but stuff like maiden in lower kara

i always save artifact for shield phase

dont think many monks do that

i probably play too safe there xd

because i'd still have 20 cjl stacks anyway for that

and i end up losing 1 cast when it's 2 shields and mabye even 2 casts when it's 3 shields

[haughty lily]

whats a good crit chance for a 960 ilvl?

im at 33 percent but my dps doesnt feel like its enough

[strange python]

for stat weightsa

at 968 i had 50%, im sure someone here had 22%

[haughty lily]

i did sim myself

[civic palm]

30% is healthy

But feel doesn't equate to DPS.

[lethal heart]

there is no good crit chance probably, just go with w/e your sims say

[haughty lily]

ok thanks

[civic palm]

At some point I had 22% crit and 210% mastery.

Numbers shift .

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[strange python]

i had 54% crit 92% mastery at one point recently

54%+dogs i mean

[civic palm]

Sure

o _o

[strange python]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/TAZVNMwQhwEjZRWz1U54s

this being the sim, had to go find it lmao

[drifting cosmos]

🤔 54 crit

[strange python]

looks like my mastery #'s were a bit off, 54 80

[drifting cosmos]

extreme bleed build

[strange python]

18 haste

so literally spamming mut

looks like I was misremembering. that was my bad. still some wonky stats for 2.2

51/17/80 +970 fang

[daring cave]

What's a good number to shoot for for mastery?

[marble hemlock]

as close to 50000 mastery as you can get

or, in other terms, as much as possible. its usually easiest to just sim yourself on raidbots.com in order to get the exact statweights

[daring cave]

Right, ok was just wondering

Still working on my gear tho aswell. Just seems hard lol

[marble hemlock]

unless youre planning on playing a bleed build with ep/exsanguinate, there are very few edge-cases where mastery is not the best stat you can get, and it doesnt get less value the more you have of it, so you can safely keep stacking mastery as long as you dont suddenly equip a mastery+haste item or something

getting the gear or deciding on which is the best piece you have?

[daring cave]

Gear wise. T21

[marble hemlock]

because the latter is fairly easy once you got your statweights from raidbots and installed the pawn-addon

yeah, just takes some time to get decent t21 pieces

[daring cave]

Ahh.. well when I get home I will try to figure the raidbot out. What did you mean by mastery+haste

[marble hemlock]

like, generally you will want items with as much mastery as possible, but you definitely do not want haste on any item unless its forced due to being a legendary or tier-piece

i.e. a 2kmastery/1.5kvers ring is pretty much always going to be better than a 3kmastery/800haste ring

but again, most of these questions as to which piece of gear is better can be solved by just getting your statweights

[daring cave]

Ahh yes ok I understand

Thanks boss

[marble hemlock]

anytime

[daring cave]

Last question lol

Is there a certain race I should be running. I'm currently Troll

[marble hemlock]

https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/

there is a section for racials

[daring cave]

Thanks

[safe matrix]

No it doesn't really matter

It's like a >1% difference between races

[tawdry valley]

sooo having over 100% mastery is bad ?

[strange python]

if it sims lower to have over 100 then sure

[warped tangle]

just wondering, in your opener, why do you want to do vendetta -> toxic blade -> kingsbane -> vanish... ect ect? whats the meaning of the toxic blade before kingsbane and not match it with the last 9 sec in the end of the kingsbane

[marble hemlock]

because it sims slightly better to do so, instead of the way you suggested

[stone locust]

it buffs kignsbanes initail dmg by 35%

that was such bad spelling jesus

[marble hemlock]

i did the tb during last 9sec myself for quite some time

for the opener you definitely want the suggested rotation however

[strange python]

later in the rotation its both easier and better to just tb on cd at this point i believe

[warped tangle]

so i want to do .....vendetta - toxic blade - kingsbane - vanish - envenom - mutilate. (get like 3 envenom off asap)

[marble hemlock]

the long explanation would be that due to the increased energy sustain of the t21 4pc we are able to keep reasonably high uptimes on envenom/virulent poisons throghout the entire fight, meaning youll be able to get 2-3envenoms into any given TB while also being able to maintain a 100% uptime on envenom during KB, something which was very hard to do before t21 was a thing, which is when the "tb during last 9sec" was more widespread

exactly

[stone locust]

yes

[warped tangle]

alraight, just want to make it clear for myself. thank you people <3

[lethal heart]

wait

that is unusual

isnt it?

[vapid moth]

Where did you fight with it

Sw training dummy?

[slow stag]

anyone know a good rouge elvui profile?

[spare cloud]

Your own is the best

[primal tangle]

My raid group just told me "stay on the boss" on coven and I am having trouble adjusting to this lifestyle

I am questioning if its real life

[civic palm]

hahaha

[indigo cradle]

People still raiding ?

[primal tangle]

Why wouldnt they be?

[exotic glen]

i wish my raid leader would tell me that 😦

[strange python]

You listen to your raid leader?

Weeeeeird.

[lone junco]

We are in alt mode.

I'm working on warlock.

[spare cloud]

Noobe back to bleedyboy

[primal tangle]

I'm leveling a monk. Its a "no thinking" type of rogue in my opinion

The mastery for it is "dont repeat an ability" so theres literally no pooling

[strange python]

any tips on mage tower

[supple hearth]

do the mechanics

[strange python]

this shit seems impossible, i watched 3 guides, im doing everything the guides said

[exotic glen]

obviously not

[supple hearth]

its the 2nd easiest mage tower in the game. its literally just do the mechanics and u win. If you need padding get ilvl and some legendaries but you really dont need them

[strange python]

okay

[exotic glen]

are you dying instantly to a mechanic you fucked up or do you just not have enough sustain or what is your problem

[sand whale]

well to fail it it would be to failing mechancis badly

and the other thing would be you're so undergeared you can't pop the shield

[supple hearth]

people were doing it at like 890 easily so you'd have to be super very fresh boost to not be able to take the shield out. Its more likely mechanics being failed

[civic palm]

Good people were doing it easily at 890.

There's a gulf in between people.

[sand whale]

that's what I usually think when people ask about mage tower questions this late 😛 boosted characters

[civic palm]

Could be, yeah.

People asking why their NRG REGEN is so bad, don't realize that there are poisons to apply.

[sand whale]

but still should still be easy...almost tempted to try since I have no idea what to use my boost on

[civic palm]

Movement is crippling for many people.

[onyx falcon]

Boosted Characters start w/ all Greens at a higher ilvl so dunno if they'd be able to do it easily =/

[keen inlet]

@strange python tbh if you have Prydaz and/or belt leggos I highly recommend them

Oh wait

This is sin not outlaw

Lol was wondering why everybody was saying it was so easy

Ooooopsies.

[supple hearth]

rofl

[exotic glen]

outlaw was easy as well

i bursted the boss down in 2 phases not killing more than a few imps

maybe it was because i had 980 gear 🤔

[keen inlet]

980
Designed for 900ish

Hmmmm

[exotic glen]

dude i only had about 100 more ilvls than you need to do it

its nothing

[onyx falcon]

"Oh wait, this is sin not outlaw" Silly Jose 😛

[upper island]

ayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

sin best NA

[supple hearth]

outlaw was actually very challenging when it was current. Sin was a joke. Sub i was probably a bit overgeared when I did it

[pale saffron]

even with deeper strategem, you spend at 4+ right? the single target rotation in the guide doesnt specify if you pick vigor or deeper strategem, wasnt sure

[safe matrix]

Yep 4+

[sand whale]

I wanted to kms when I tried the outlaw challenge when it came out

"plz plz grandmelee pllzzz"

[steep obsidian]

i didnt do outlaw until recently, i think sin took me like 5 tries early on? sub i 2 shot in like tos gear because i burst thorugh the whole 2nd phase in a dfa combo without even having to deal with it

[dire spoke]

👀

[steep obsidian]

😮

oh yeah i got a feel for what sin might play like if you were stupidly overgeared in bfa yesterday, normal motherload was scaling people to 310 gear and 110 ilvl so it was the equivalent of wearing about ilvl 1100 or something dumb

fastest run i ever did

the arcane mage was 3 shotting bosses though

[viscid helm]

Stupidly overgeared

[steep obsidian]

ahuh

[stark heart]

Imagine being in #assassination and assuming it's outlaw talk

[fluid pagoda]

for what its worth, do u all enjoy assassination as a playstyle?

[steep obsidian]

same

[fluid pagoda]

hard to get info outta ppl here

[vivid bone]

ok

[civic palm]

Just ask a question with an answer that isn't open ended, ezpz answers.

[stark heart]

for what its worth, do u all enjoy assassination as a playstyle?
BfA or Legion? Legion is okay, BfA - no

[civic palm]

BFA @ 120 is extra booty due to some really fucking awful stats.

15% crit? VOMIT. 25% mastery WTFUGGGGGGGGGGGH

[vivid bone]

just stack haste

[civic palm]

8% hate ffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

Once I can start spamming Heroics stats will change, but until then,

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[fluid pagoda]

my question was a yes or no

[vivid bone]

Your question was a bit too generic

[civic palm]

WTF is the point of that?!

[atomic grotto]

well although calling his question dumb is not helping anyone

[vivid bone]

True

[atomic grotto]

what answer did u expect?

like if we play it

we probably like it

[vivid bone]

I edited my answer

[atomic grotto]

rofl

[vivid bone]

Thanks Lone_wuf

[atomic grotto]

also i assume he meant on live servers

[vivid bone]

Well, can't hurt to throw in BfA already, since that's happening quite fast

we got like a few more months of legion

[atomic grotto]

3 months

[vivid bone]

yeah, a few

[atomic grotto]

i m dying to ask though @fluid pagoda how would knowing what people enjoy help you?

[civic palm]

Especially from just a YES or NO.

[vivid bone]

hehe

strawpoll

😄

[fluid pagoda]

@atomic grotto a lot of unease towards demonology,survival hunters. etc. Trying to find some spec positivity.

[vivid bone]

Lol

So you are asking all specs if they enjoy it? for what reason?

[fluid pagoda]

ppl who play it because they like it and not just because of the numbers

[atomic grotto]

what numbers

we are not monks

[civic palm]

Almost everyone is going to have some issue with the spec they play.

[vivid bone]

I have no issues tbh, but then again I'm not that picky

or that good 😛

[civic palm]

👏 BE 👏 PICKY 👏

[atomic grotto]

i dislike rng

[vivid bone]

I played D2 for 12 years, I love RNG

[civic palm]

If you are "that good" at SIN you know damn well there are large issues.

[atomic grotto]

but i enjoy playing rogue

[vivid bone]

I'm really not that good

I cleared heroic and I parse purple

at most

[civic palm]

D2's randomness is very might tied to the same kinda randomness that WoW has, in regard to loot drops.

There's nothing really random about the damage you do.

That's very much controlled.

[vivid bone]

Poison bomb ❤

[atomic grotto]

i think pb is a shitty design

[civic palm]

👏 REST 👏 IN 👏 PEACE 👏

[vivid bone]

I don't mind it 😛

[atomic grotto]

but i wouldnt give up on the spec for it

[vivid bone]

I also don't mind it if they change it

I'm indifferent?

[civic palm]

It's fine just balanced in a poor way, though at the moment it's hyper-shiiiiiit on BFA with present stats.

[vivid bone]

yeah, that's a word

I guess I should play beta

[atomic grotto]

i find it totally retarded what they did on talent rows in bfa beta

last row is stupid af for ST and the previous is useless at AoE

[vivid bone]

bold claims

I should try it out I guess

[civic palm]

our AoE options are very good atm, but PBomb needs to either be removed or figured out.

[vivid bone]

then again, I have no idea whats good with the stat squish

[civic palm]

As it feels very bad for ST.

[atomic grotto]

i use CT on ST because i like it

but im still leveling

[civic palm]

and Hidden Blades feels bad for ST but critting for 10k feels good.

[vivid bone]

oh, you don't get 120 chars on beta?

[civic palm]

Not atm.

Leveling still needs testing.

So no shortcuts.

[vivid bone]

Ugh, I'm not gonna go leveling in beta to be burned out when it releases 😛

[atomic grotto]

although i was happy about the return of dispatch (blindside)

[civic palm]

I just level the side I am not doing on Live.

[atomic grotto]

it seems clunky

[civic palm]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[vivid bone]

Oh, good one

damn, you smort @civic palm

[civic palm]

From time to time.

[atomic grotto]

and the synergy with the venom rush 🤔

[vivid bone]

You have your moments

[civic palm]

aka the NOT synergy with VR.

[atomic grotto]

yes exactly that

[civic palm]

I do think it might end up winning out in the beginning of the expansion due to the bad stats though.

[vivid bone]

void elf rogue it is tonight then

[civic palm]

and having an "execute" might end up well.

But if fights don't last 5min that potion is going to be carrying all of your DPS anyway.

[vivid bone]

that execute has a talent that makes it free and usable any time right?

on proc

or something

[civic palm]

and with good stats... the potion might still need a nerf > _>

Yeah Blindside is free and spammable under 30%.

or so.

[vivid bone]

yeah, it replaces muti as a generator then

I heard

[civic palm]

Seems like it.

[vivid bone]

because of more damage per energy

[civic palm]

more CP even.

[vivid bone]

It generates less cp than muti?

[civic palm]

Not per GCD, but you can spam it.

[atomic grotto]

yes it replaces muti on exe rotation

thats the point

[civic palm]

Being able to never stop hitting it makes it generate more CP over time.

[vivid bone]

Oh right

[atomic grotto]

its not that free with shitty gear though

[vivid bone]

that also has something to do with the less energy cost 😛

[atomic grotto]

remove pb remake venom rush win win scenario

also hidden blades is a bit meh for sin

[civic palm]

Best ST talent > _>

[vivid bone]

Is the leveling from 110 to 120 a linear thing each side?

[civic palm]

PBomb and VR need some changes though I think, they don't do much.

linear?

[vivid bone]

Or do you still have choices in areas

[civic palm]

You do the three zones in whichever order you want.

[vivid bone]

ah

[atomic grotto]

they made a new uldum

a red one

[vivid bone]

But you don't have to do all 3 to get 120 right

[civic palm]

I hit 120 by queuing for dungeons and got through 1.3 zones, maybe.

[vivid bone]

I would assume maybe 2 zones would be enough

ah alright

[civic palm]

1.5 probably.

[vivid bone]

I don't like leveling, you can get that from my questions right 😛

[atomic grotto]

i hate it too

[shrewd pine]

you wanna do all 3 zones tho

[atomic grotto]

thats why i stopped on beta

[shrewd pine]

so you get friendly rep to unlock WQs

[vivid bone]

Oh I will

I have 12 lvl 110's

[shrewd pine]

and dont have to backtrack rep on max lvl

[vivid bone]

I want to spread it out as much as possible ._.

took me ages to get those 12 to 110

[civic palm]

I unlocked WQs doing like, 2 quests in 1 zone, probably not even that many frankly.

Probably won't be like that on retail though.

[vivid bone]

I hope it's alt friendlier than legion

and with alt friendlier I mean, easier to switch mains

😄

[shrewd pine]

its gonna be much easier

no legendaries, 'nuff said

[vivid bone]

yeah true

[shrewd pine]

and I don't think AP will be such a grind as people are making out to be 🤷

[vivid bone]

but the leveling of that heart of azeroth or w/e

[civic palm]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

ezpz

Though we haven't seen the more powerful items yet.

So there's no telling how much power you get out of them.

[shrewd pine]

I could imagine a lot, since they said its replacement for tier sets

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[vivid bone]

jezus, we're shrugging a lot today

[wise frigate]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[civic palm]

Nah there's some power moved around.

For example.

Auto-Attacks do massive damage now.

[shrewd pine]

which apparently is intended

.<

[vivid bone]

oh man, I love idling and dpsing at the same time

[shrewd pine]

gotta give those LFR casuals sense of pride and accomplishment

[stuck leaf]

Hi guys, did someone gets accurate hard cap & soft cap informations regarding mastery / crit / versa for assassination rogue ?

[shrewd pine]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

no hard caps, sim your stats on raidbots.com and follow it

[atomic grotto]

Mastery is our lord and savior

heheheh

[stuck leaf]

this is already what I'm doing so I'm guessing there is some hard cap

[atomic grotto]

[stuck leaf]

215% mastery is enough I guess

[civic palm]

The AA changes are 100% intended.

Them being lame was stupid.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/124169701881282560/445427936862928896/unknown.png

and one of the major reasons that haste did nothing for us in Legion, and why Weapon Damage from Weapon Levels held such a tiny weight.

[shrewd pine]

it wasnt, it rewarded doing your rotation corrently as most of your damage came from spells

not 20% of your damage being afk AA

[civic palm]

Nothing changes, it's not 80% of your damage.

[vivid bone]

Hahaha that auto attack damage

[civic palm]

Being bad means you will still get shit parses.

[shrewd pine]

weapon damage and connected weapon ilvl held little value due to shitty scaling on the ability part

[atomic grotto]

lets see what they gonna do to sub

[stark heart]

major reason for haste being bad was no bleeds damage scaling from it and 50% of your energy income not scaling from it

it had really little to do with AA damage

[shrewd pine]

and haste was shit cuz dots didnt scale with it, not AA damage FailFish

[civic palm]

Sure, but AA being ass meant Haste held even less value.

[shrewd pine]

but AA should be irrelevant for damage, other than procs for your abilities if any

It doesnt hold any value, you are literally just right clicking once on start of the boss and not doing anything

[vivid bone]

I don't think it should be irrelevant

[civic palm]

It really doesn't matter where it ends up so long it's not a huge amount of daamge.

[shrewd pine]

such gameplay shouldn't be enforced by rewarding it with high numbers

[vivid bone]

Shouldn't be high, but should defo count

[civic palm]

You can 100% face a boss in a way where you cannot AA but can continue casting spells, damage loss.

[shrewd pine]

its up to 20% for some classes right now on beta, which apparently is intended

[vivid bone]

haha, what classes Therianek

[shrewd pine]

played UH DK on raid testing couple times

[civic palm]

OTL should have a higher number.

[vivid bone]

I'm making notes right now 😄

[shrewd pine]

there were pulls where my AA was crazy high, like 15+

[civic palm]

But these are also numbers with horseshit awful stats.

[shrewd pine]

and 20% was my record

[civic palm]

Even with the 355 scaling.

[stark heart]

AA being higher portion of your damage makes pressing buttons less relevant

[shrewd pine]

exactly

and less rewarding

[vivid bone]

rewarding

[civic palm]

Makes them just as rewarding...

[vivid bone]

such a fun word for pressing a key

[civic palm]

If anything this makes people that are bad at movement even worse than before.

[shrewd pine]

I just can't agree with the fact AA should have such high impact on overall damage. It's you doing literally nothing, that shouldn't be rewarded with high damage numbers.
Damage should come from actively playing spec, not auto attacking.

[stark heart]

also AA are not even remotely fun or interactive for most specs. I get a nice feel when I press envenom and it crits, I don't care about AA damage whatsoever because it's passive

[vivid bone]

Maybe that'll change with more gear though Therianek

Or is that weird

[civic palm]

Sure AA isn't interactive, by design, but hilariously there's still failing at auto-attacking.

and failing at it now is even more catastrophic than just not getting DP procs.

[shrewd pine]

Based on that the tweet warcraft devs put out it wont change. As they specificaly said they want white damage (AA damage) to be higher portion of your damage overall.

Lemme find the tweet fast.

[vivid bone]

Well

it's easier to balance I'm sure

[civic palm]

It's the most recent one, they want it to do more damage.

More damage than before.

[shrewd pine]

https://twitter.com/WarcraftDevs/status/996166155680206848

WarcraftDevs (@WarcraftDevs)

Yes. The relative amount of damage done by auto-attacks has gone down over the years, and in the Battle For Azeroth Beta, we’re bringing it closer to where it has been historically. https://t.co/ROvLaN2kJi

Likes

255

Twitter

[vivid bone]

I can get behind that though

[civic palm]

Again, pretty simple to fail at fucking auto-attacking.

Making being on boss dramatically more important as well.

Do we get movespeed to boots back this expansion? > _>

[shrewd pine]

most bosses are static, you dont move them and its not exactly hard to follow bosses to get AA in

[civic palm]

Movement is harder than some would like to think > _>

[atomic grotto]

as flowi stated

[vivid bone]

You'd be surprised

[atomic grotto]

wow is a console game now

[civic palm]

Dunno about that.

[shrewd pine]

WoW for switch soon

[civic palm]

Flowi is almost literally always hyperbolic.

[atomic grotto]

i know

im just trolling a bit

[vivid bone]

I will embrace the simplicity!

[stark heart]

almost always is a good term

[civic palm]

That stupid phrasing on my part is 100% intended.

[shrewd pine]

While WoW being a console game is hyperbole, when you look at the changes, it does make sense someone would think that

[civic palm]

almost literally always, 2018.

[stark heart]

Mizerok, that term exists in math

"almost always"

[shrewd pine]

we dont even have enough buttons to fill out controler...

[stark heart]

it means probability of different outcome is 0

[civic palm]

Almost always but not almost literally.

[stark heart]

[vivid bone]

you can bind emotes to the rest Therianek

[civic palm]

non-zero percent is also a nice phrase.

[atomic grotto]

gonna have a smoke

[shrewd pine]

shit, forgot about emotes, nvm

[civic palm]

Most people would look at the changes being made and listen to what Blizzard has said about them having to plan for potential spell expansions in the future.

Most people would not do that actually.

There a fucking TRILLION procs in BFA atm.

and I also think that making the classes and specs easier to play (but not too easy) and off-loading the difficulty to the encounters means that more people might be willing to play more classes/specs.

As people are very adverse to feeling like they are "bad" at something.

[stark heart]

but not too easy
well imo they went too far

[shrewd pine]

But specs are already piss easy to play

[civic palm]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[shrewd pine]

There is no spec that requires actual skill.

[civic palm]

That's extremely reductive.

?

[shrewd pine]

No its not.

Wrong copy paste, ignore 😛

oh btw https://twitter.com/ArtuniasDPS/status/996170707515133953

Artunias (@ArtuniasDPS)

@WarcraftDevs 🧐🤔🤔🤔🤔

Twitter

this one

UH in nutshell

#rewarding

[civic palm]

It's extremely reductive because even the low skill level required to play most classes has still created a divide in players.

Melee (not you).

K

[shrewd pine]

3rd, my melee

[civic palm]

Melee (You but like... 12 of you).

[shrewd pine]

13%

[civic palm]

Duration of Combat?

[shrewd pine]

dunno, snapped it off twitter

[civic palm]

Well that's useless =\

[shrewd pine]

I can send you actual footage once I get home from work.

[vivid bone]

So it's not even your melee

[civic palm]

I 100% believe that that is real.

[vivid bone]

Oh me too

[civic palm]

My only concern is the duration, that's all.

[vivid bone]

Why wouldn't it be

[shrewd pine]

My point is, passive melee isn't rewarding part of gameplay and is even more boring than getting random dps procs in form of for example poison bomb.

[vivid bone]

Meh, it'll be fine

just watch

[shrewd pine]

and therefore shouldn't be pushed.

[civic palm]

I don't think it's being pushed, just... raised?

[shrewd pine]

Same shit

Lets not argue on words, you know what I mean.

[civic palm]

and again, movement and being able to track the boss is a lot harder than some people realize.

[shrewd pine]

not with massive boss hitboxes we have these days

[civic palm]

If we're only talking about above average players, that's a skill they have gotten good at.

Not all that massive O _O Some need some fucking work.

[vivid bone]

You're thinking too highly of the playerbase Therianek 😄

[civic palm]

Movement fucking obliterates the average person's ability to function.

[viscid helm]

Lol whos that DK clown

[civic palm]

and it has for over a decade and the average player is still bad at it.

[shrewd pine]

No, I'm thinking too low of design of the bosses. Because it's all simple shit. Hitboxes are huge af, there might be one or two bosses in a raid where its not. But most bosses have disgustingly massive hitboxes

[viscid helm]

Who linked that to devs

[civic palm]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[shrewd pine]

dunno, was probably bad example tbh

looking at this I see he didnt exactly used any abilities

[vivid bone]

No stick to your guns

Don't back down

[shrewd pine]

no no

I linked that shit wrong

[civic palm]

Nah, don't base things on bad information.

[shrewd pine]

wrong example.

[civic palm]

That's a shit way of going about things.

[shrewd pine]

He didnt actually use any proper abilities

[vivid bone]

😛

[shrewd pine]

Therefore I ask you to ignore it and wait till I can provide actual example

[vivid bone]

Sure, no worries mate

[civic palm]

There were movement and attack range issues now.

or... for months I guess.

People wondering about regen, being completely out of fucking range.

[shrewd pine]

lets look at antorus tho

whic boss actually has hitbox issues

cuz I cant think of any, all of them have massive hitboxes

[vivid bone]

that guy with the sleeping gass

[civic palm]

Those portals before AHC.

:3

[steep obsidian]

depends what you mean

[shrewd pine]

oh imonar?

[civic palm]

Imonar is designed to force melee into tight spaces.

[vivid bone]

I can manage to not autoattack imonar for a bit

[civic palm]

So the box has to be small.

[shrewd pine]

I guess, his hitbox aint that big true

[steep obsidian]

you could say dfa kiling when you do it at the wrong time and aren't at max range is sort of a hitbox issue

[civic palm]

or a targeting AI issue.

[shrewd pine]

DFA killing ya is hitbox issue combined with poor implementation of designated landing spots for static bosses that dont move during encounter

[vivid bone]

haha DFA is a talent I'd never touch, even if it's best

I hardly can handle my own movement

let alone some ability

[civic palm]

Let the game take your movement demands in its' hands.

No worries :3

[shrewd pine]

its not that bad, just takes getting used to, most bosses now are fine, the biggest bitches are Helya in Maw and Wrath of Azshara

[vivid bone]

Equivalent of 'jezus takes the wheel'?

[shrewd pine]

Equivalent of if you dont use at this particular perfect spot u gonna slam ground or not doing damage with your spell (in better case)

[vivid bone]

yeah exactly

I would ground slam so much

[shrewd pine]

on Wrath of Azshara you have to use it from max range of your DFA or you get sent into middle of the boss

[vivid bone]

😹

[shrewd pine]

and on Helya in Maw you have to use it from range and angle or it cancels the effect (you wont do the damage) and if you get unluck you land in one of the tentacle holes

btw

[vivid bone]

maybe I should play

😄

sounds like fun

[shrewd pine]

its fun on Kingaroth tho, if you stand at the entrance and DFA, landing spot is all the way behind him

you get to fly quite a bit

[vivid bone]

Hehe, I love shadowstepping Kingaroth

[shrewd pine]

that shit been fixed, shadowstrike tho

[vivid bone]

wat

since when

[shrewd pine]

I'm not sure what blizzard was thinking, but shadowstrike works fine on normal and heroic

but on mythic, it sends me into the middle of his hitbox and down to death

[civic palm]

and this thing needs a change - or combat needs to last longer; https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/124169701881282560/445719123058491412/unknown.png

[vivid bone]

looks balanced

[shrewd pine]

that from beta rn?

[vivid bone]

no, that's live /s

[shrewd pine]

yea, im retarded, nvm

[civic palm]

hahah

[vivid bone]

:p

[civic palm]

Scales with Mastery O _O"

[shrewd pine]

seeee, my poooint tho

13% afk damage

reeeeee

[civic palm]

1min combat

damage is pointless.

[vivid bone]

[civic palm]

mwuahahahahaha

[shrewd pine]

AA damage doesnt drop off thooooo

[civic palm]

Other damage is better thooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[vivid bone]

it does when you move away from the boss

[shrewd pine]

its noooooooooooooooot

13% is massive for afk right click and do nothing

[civic palm]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[shrewd pine]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[vivid bone]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[civic palm]

Bosses don't just fucking stand there.

Reason why patchwerk sims have been pointless forever.

[shrewd pine]

lets have a look at antorus

[vivid bone]

I loved when patchwerk was actual content

:<

[civic palm]

Patchwerk also required melee movement > _>

So the SIM naming isn't even that great.

[vivid bone]

Minimal

Like, really minimal

[civic palm]

Like, 2 steps.

MAYBE

But movement in BFA or having to do mechanics that pull you from the boss is going to obliterate your DPS.

[vivid bone]

which is nice

imo

[civic palm]

T U N N E L

It's... ok.

[vivid bone]

Glad we can agree

[civic palm]

It's an even better excuse for when people wonder your damage is pretty underwhelming.

[shrewd pine]

Garothi Stands
Doggies Move
High command) Stands, except when you move between them, doesnt count
Portal keeper) Moves
Imonar Stands, except transition, doesnt count you dont damage anyway
Kingaroth Stands
Vari Stands
Coven, mostly stands
Aggramar, mostly stands
Argus, Moves

[vivid bone]

I'm going back to work o_o

[shrewd pine]

majority of bosses staaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand

🤷

[civic palm]

Bosses don't need to move to make you move O _O

[shrewd pine]

oh

yea

right

nvm

[civic palm]

or to make you not able to hit them.

O_O fucking come on.

[vivid bone]

😄

[shrewd pine]

my point still stands, afk damage shouldnt be rewarded 'nuff said

[vivid bone]

it was fun guys, lets do this again sometime

[shrewd pine]

the need for good movement is as important to press your shit as to AAs

[civic palm]

It's not really AFK though, is it? Because it still makes demands of you for you to get that damage.

Where going AFK means you are literally hands off.

No input.

It is extremely low demand.

But it's there.

and bad players are going to be even worse due to not re-engaging a target as quickly as they could.

Taking time to walk back to something.

etc.

[shrewd pine]

LIke I Understand where you coming from Mizerok, I rly do. AA is rewarding because in order to maximize it you need to properly move with the boss in order to be in AA range and therefore AA damage is "active" one.

[civic palm]

It is boring though.

[shrewd pine]

BUT, you have to move to boss to hit your spells too

[civic palm]

Like I mentioned before, you can use abilities but not AA if you are angled incorrectly.

It doesn't happen much, but it does happen.

[shrewd pine]

and hitting spells > auto attacking, therefore the focus should be on hitting your spell, which feels better then AAs

[civic palm]

👏 EVERYTHING 👏 MATTERS 👏

I like the idea for ARPGs though.

[shrewd pine]

I basically classify AAs with same category as passive damage procs that make you do nothing

[civic palm]

Faster attacks that do little damage, but proccing things to make up for the damage, but that's not WoW.

[shrewd pine]

its boring as concept that shouldnt be pushed

procs should make you do something, press button like on frost mage or ele shaman

[civic palm]

Movement has always been a hang-up for people, putting so much DPS on AA might not be a good idea > _>

[shrewd pine]

lets see how it pans out and lets end this discussion, we got different views and wont change our minds

[drifting cosmos]

does AA scale better with weapon dmg atm?

[civic palm]

Yeah.

[drifting cosmos]

or everything is AP based

[civic palm]

atm on retail or ?

_>

[drifting cosmos]

in beta atm

[shrewd pine]

I dunno actually, AA might be last thing that scales from weapon damage

[civic palm]

Weapon DMG is a variable in spell calculations IIRC.

[shrewd pine]

all abilities scale from attack power tho

[civic palm]

I assume weapon DMG is from attack range and speed.

and primary stat.

[drifting cosmos]

i was just thinking AA might scale up faster when we change weapons each tier

resulting in higher % of AA when we move forward

[civic palm]

Weapon DMG also scales abilities due to Weapon DMG being in the ability calcs.

[shrewd pine]

no no no

not in beta

[shrewd night]

Cant wait to use fast MH and slow OH again

[shrewd pine]

weapon damage has been completely removed from abilities

[shrewd night]

oh wait

[shrewd pine]

its all attack power scaling

[drifting cosmos]

no i thought they removed weapon dmg in skills

[civic palm]

Yeah Attack Power... same thing > _>

Leave it alone.

👏 IT 👏 IS 👏 BED 👏 TIME 👏

[shrewd pine]

vastly different thing :p

[wise frigate]

No u

[shrewd pine]

bed time? its 10am

[civic palm]

O _O

[wise frigate]

East coast life

[shrewd pine]

sounds like your windows clock is in wrong time zone

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[civic palm]

heh

Anyway, weapon damage is used in defining Attack Power, yeeeeeees?

[wise frigate]

I 100% woke up at 11:50 PM though. So it's morning for me.

[shrewd pine]

not sure about that actually

lemme hit google fast

[civic palm]

If it does then increasing your AA from having a higher damaging weapon also scales your Attack Power which scales your abilities.

So.

/shj

IT IS EARLT

y

Y

Got it.

[wise frigate]

Nailed it.

[civic palm]

Types the rest of that just fine, misses some stupid shit.

[shrewd pine]

what I know is

that Attack power increases your weapon damage

but not the other way around

but can't find credible source to back that up

[civic palm]

This motherfucker making me google something...

[viscid helm]

Cant wait for TF'ing weapons

[zealous dew]

mmm how is going with flowi2 3 and 4 ?

[shrewd pine]

Weapons wont TF

only Warforge

[viscid helm]

They TF on beta

[shrewd pine]

then blizzard is either full of shit or didnt implement it yet

[zealous dew]

lul tf weapon = end of game

[shrewd pine]

but mr Ion dontknowhowtowritehisname said in QA

[civic palm]

So.

[viscid helm]

Blizzard is always full of shit

[shrewd pine]

that weapons wont TF

only WF

[zealous dew]

well wf +10

vs normal

[civic palm]

[(Weapon DPS + AP/14) * Weapon Speed]/2.

Getting a better weapon, also increases ability damage. The AP/14 is an example.

[zealous dew]

where melee dmg is like 50%

[civic palm]

Directly^

[shrewd pine]

thats thing of a retail

they changed all of that in beta

no ability scales from weapon damage anymore

[civic palm]

(Attack Power + Weapon DPS * 7) * AP Coefficient * Damage Multiplier

[shrewd pine]

again, legion formula

[civic palm]

Frostscythe damage calc for BFA.

[shrewd pine]

wtf

blizzard

wait

[zealous dew]

LULZ

[civic palm]

It was also mentioned that the AA damage calc. is not 100% known due to the unusually large amount of damage it does.

There's more-than-likely a scaling modifier.

[shrewd pine]

http://www.wowhead.com/news=281913/battle-for-azeroth-new-formula-for-calculating-ability-damage

important

By using weapon DPS instead of the weapon's damage range, there's no variance in ability damage;

Weapon Dps =/= weapon damage

[civic palm]

Troof.

Another problem.

There are faster/slow daggers again.

So enjoy.

Suckers.

[shrewd pine]

idk

I thought I knew what was doing on

but I dont anymore

but looking at most spells, there is only attack power

and very little abilities have weapon dps in it

[civic palm]

The spells state AP scaling, sure.

No chance of Blizzard putting the calc. in the tooltip though.

In the past AP was based entirely on Primary Stat ye?

[shrewd pine]

yea

from agi

or strength

'member when ferals needed strength gear for tanking? I 'member

[civic palm]

Enjoy that o _o

[shrewd pine]

yea that ingame tooltip only translates the increase of your AAs

[civic palm]

My point is that AP == AGI.

Nothing else.

[shrewd pine]

yee

what I said above too

[civic palm]

Just confirming.

[shrewd pine]

oh right

fair

is that DejaStats on beta?

[civic palm]

Yeah, normal DL works.

[shrewd pine]

ooooh

nice

gotta get it

[civic palm]

👏 ACTUALLY 👏 BED 👏 TIME 👏

Night

[shrewd pine]

night

[shrewd night]

I mean

TECHNICALLY

Righyt

If weapon damage is a thing of the past

Youd want two fast daggers

So theres that

[shrewd pine]

are there even different speed weapons in bfa ?

but yea, for ass you would want that, faster poison aplication on AA and shit

[shrewd night]

I thought they streamlined that shit to be 1.80 on all daggers

but apparantly there are slow daggers again

[shrewd pine]

yea I think so

are there?

[shrewd night]

So 🤷

[shrewd pine]

that would be neat actually

a bit more decision making behind gear

other than oh look shiny ilvl

[shrewd night]

God I hate it

Oh look a WF slow dagger, gotta sim that shit before telling my RL if its an upgrade or not

[shrewd pine]

doesnt matter, PL

"sorry ilvl upgrade cant trade"

LUL

[shrewd night]

Although, whats the point with speed on daggers if it doesnt change shit on abilities

[shrewd pine]

for niche use for certain specs

[shrewd night]

One would think it would return to old school higher mutilate damage with slow offhand stuff

But uh

[shrewd pine]

like UH DK for procing free death coils

assa rogues for poisons

maybe there are others but those are the only ones I actually played

[shrewd night]

Yay more emphasis on passive shit

Zzzzz

[shrewd pine]

well free death coil use isnt exactly passive

you actually need to click ability

but poisons are passive yea

[shrewd night]

Every day that passes the more lovely enhancement shaman seems

[atomic grotto]

I feel ya dear sauna

[shrewd pine]

i was looking at enh shammy, but the lack of any reasonable aoe is kilin it

[zealous dew]

enh shaman 😄

[shrewd night]

So the same as ass rogue then, Theri

[shrewd pine]

And thats why I'm sub, hellooooo

if Argus didnt require assasination for its execute I wouldnt even have the artifact weapons in my bags

.<

[viscid helm]

But

It didnt

Lol

[shrewd pine]

I mean.... lets be real here.

Having execute on that fight vs not having execute is massive deal

talking mythic of course

[viscid helm]

Sure but argus was never a DPS check

[shrewd pine]

there is a good reason why most of the rogues are ass

[shrewd night]

That reason is falling through the floor when you dfa, not because of dps

At least thats what I heard

[shrewd pine]

naah

I did the fight as sub on farm and never fell through

[viscid helm]

Dunno about DFA but SS caused you to fall through platform

100% of the time

[shrewd pine]

on pull or?

cuz I never had the issue

[viscid helm]

Well

When did u kill it

[shrewd pine]

good question

lemme check

March 14th

[viscid helm]

Gimme rank, date doesnt say anything, dont even remember our kill month

At this point

[shrewd pine]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/twisting-nether/theristabya

rank like 400 world i think

[viscid helm]

Yeh well it was obviously fixed by march

[shrewd pine]

very likely

[viscid helm]

This was back in december

[shrewd pine]

I started progg as sub and half way through swapped to assa

and never had issue

lemme check our actual rank

rank 434

[broken kettle]

are we taking dispatch in bfa

[shrewd pine]

damage tuning hasnt been done yet so its hard to say

[shrewd night]

Dispatch is outlul so

[viscid helm]

Dispatch is outlaw finisher

[broken kettle]

i will not at any point remember what the talent is called now

[viscid helm]

Blindside is a DPS loss vs muti

Rn

[broken kettle]

it'd be nice to have a proc :[

[atomic grotto]

imagine flowis trip to blizzard

he would spit on every coffee of the rogue disigner team

designer*

[shrewd pine]

shit would get burned down real fast

[broken kettle]

what are the cliff notes of his anger

[shrewd pine]

shitty spec design since couple years I would guess

[atomic grotto]

thats outlaw

[ripe nimbus]

Except if ur using Blindside to generate CP in execute ur doing it wrong.. just use it during execute when u get a free proc from Mut then its not a DPS loss.

[viscid helm]

Wow u so smart

[shrewd pine]

That is in current tuning, which is very likely far from what will be live. Intended usage and future tuning might be replacemement for Muti. Too early to tell.

[pine flame]

guys can you check my rotation?

Stealth>Garotte>Mut(2)>Rupture> Mut(2)>Envenom>Mut>Kingsbane>Envenom>Vendetta>Mut(2)>Envenom

[shrewd pine]

[pine flame]

but this rotation gives me 600-700

[shrewd pine]

do you have shoulderpads?

[pine flame]

i have, but waiting for tomorrow to equip them @shrewd pine

[zealous dew]

Lul

[shrewd pine]

then check pins for correct opener, guide is in there

your opener is wrong.

[zealous dew]

Why don't you mut kb envenom ?

[pine flame]

Notters? @shrewd pine

[shrewd pine]

http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/

here I linked it for you

[pine flame]

thank you

[shrewd pine]

npnp

[pine flame]

is it really beneficial if I run Subterfuge rather than Nightstalker?

@shrewd pine

[marble hemlock]

sim both talents on raidbots.com, whichever sims higher, is the right one for you

[shrewd pine]

meta is to run Nightstalker

but you should sim it

subterfuge is used if you run 2t20 + 4t21

generally

[pine flame]

i see alright

[atomic grotto]

juicy nightstalker

[dire spoke]

NS ist most likely not go-to if you don't wear mantle - nothing to do with set, still requires simulations

[slow stag]

dumb question.. but what spell do you use to ''dump'' when you have garrote and rupture on the target? envenom?

[dire spoke]

@slow stag yes, you also gain buffs from that

[dire spoke]

uhm ... https://snag.gy/AcL9iV.jpg

is it logs showing it wrong or are we really not slowed while frost phase when cloak is up

[arctic venture]

!relics

[chrome tusk]

List of relics for each spec: http://tc.ravenholdt.net/

gray_hounds relic sheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vmVwWWnNhrbzi0S_qK6emjFquyUexbTmOEov7vkRjjg/edit#gid=0

[spare cloud]

Shouldnt be

[marble hemlock]

no slow while cloakerino

[dire spoke]

I thought they fixed that

[spare cloud]

Why have you been calling freedom all the time btw

[dire spoke]

so we don't need freedom?

except CoS is on CD

[spare cloud]

You dont need freedom even if you get that necrotic

Anyways

You have enough time

[dire spoke]

no?

depends which one you get

[spare cloud]

Its always the same one you line up with necro during frost

You only lose 1 second from mark

Just sprint and youre gucci

[marble hemlock]

just shadowstep the necro-tank 🤔

[spare cloud]

Or that

Even smarter

Need mouseover shadowstep for that though

Im too lazy

Cant mouseover macro if you click.though

[iron nimbus]

Quick question for the experts: I'm trying to move from a 70% parse rogue to 85%+ and I was looking at wowanalyzer. I'm not sure I trust the generated downtime advice however. What is acceptable "downtime" for a sin rogue? (for reference I'm at like 44% "downtime" on vari)

[dire spoke]

we had 8 wipes, it was a horrible week > _> and I got more nervous every f*cking time

[keen inlet]

44% downtime

[dire spoke]

1%

[spare cloud]

You shouldnt have any downtime

If anything wowanalyzer considers idle status downtime

I dont use it so i wouldnt know

But 44% sounds about right considering were at about 35 apm atm

[dire spoke]

maybe it's 44% pooling

[spare cloud]

Judging from what he said it probably just considers the gcds not used

[dire spoke]

@iron nimbus you should not judge your play by parses after 6 month into content, because logs are cheesed and rng - even mythic

[spare cloud]

More helpful to post logs

What you said doesnt give us information

About what you could do to improve

Varimathras is the best log to analyze

[iron nimbus]

Oh, I can do that. They're just a bit embarrassing though, I'm kind of new to optimization

[strange python]

We don't bite, except Toph.

[spare cloud]

Okay

[dire spoke]

yeah, we talk behind your back

[steep obsidian]

some people won't be that nice if you haven't read the guide and are just pressing random buttons

[spare cloud]

Zempai do analysis

[iron nimbus]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/character/13875097/17#difficulty=4&class=Rogue&spec=Assassination&metric=dps&boss=2069&bracket=-1

[steep obsidian]

but yeah lots of people will give ya good tips

and help a lot

[spare cloud]

Sabod is not one of those

[iron nimbus]

I know the basic theory, but I'm struggling with the finer execution

[steep obsidian]

i am in both camps actually it depend how grumpy i am

i might say "wtf you doin read pin" then help

that me

[iron nimbus]

eh, I'm a rogue. I'm basically immune to damaging mechanics as a class feature

[strange python]

check the guide for correct opener, should be vanish into envenom

[jovial kite]

N L I Z E R

[steep obsidian]

be mean then feel bad and help people out