well
#assassination
viscid helm
its not like you are missing anything
supple hearth
Also rogue pve streamers...
supple hearth
Flowi said that with sarcasm but it's not entirely wrong lol
desert vault
Assuming running leeching poison is the way to go on mythic Aggramar right?
plain thistle
why? cheat death still safer
desert vault
Ok, I wasn't sure if leeching was better for that fight just cause the ticking damage and stuff
I was seeing some logs with top 100 have 15m+ in leech healing is what made me think
viscid helm
this is why healers exist
fiery nest
Lol right
strange python
do you fan of knives on 3+ targets im guessing?
my bad, this should be in basic questions
zealous dew
i even fok on 1t π
marble hemlock
hollow goblet
@desert vault Cheat death is safer, but if you're good at doing mechanics, then leeching poison can help you survive close calls and your healers. It's a failsafe. That's why it's the recommended talent.
vapid moth
Ozark ain't that appealing so far @echo estuary. Granted I'm only about 15 min in
echo estuary
keep watchin' son
keen ginkgo
guys if i linked my logs could someone look over them and tell me if i can improve anywhere
vapid moth
Yes
keen ginkgo
simc tells me st i should be around 1.7m and im hittin 13-1.4
vapid moth
That's what the chat is for
vapid moth
Either portrait mode is mistreating me again or your opener is fucked.
keen ginkgo
i dont even know the proper opener lol but i burst super high
vapid moth
Check the guide. They have an opener for each gear set
keen ginkgo
ahh yeah i see im a bit off
been using all finishers only at 5 cp aswell
im retarded lol
frozen juniper
is it smarter to just cast toxic blade before kingsbane or should you wait til the tb debuff is up for the entire remainder of kb?
vapid moth
I hate the dudes damily
hollow goblet
@frozen juniper For Opener, toxic blade, then kingsbane. For rotation, Kingsbane and when you have 8 seconds remaining on Kingsbane duration, use toxic blade.
frozen juniper
ty π
dense blaze
Back in my day we used TB on CD
hollow goblet
I go: Garrote > Mutilate > Rupture > Vendetta > Toxic Blade > Kingsbane > Vanish etc
For openeer, but mind you that's with shoulders legendary so if you dont have it then your opener changes slightly./
plain thistle
no, TB on CD
primal tangle
Is raiding just becoming boring or is it just burnout for me
Varimathras is a boring boss
Coven is as well
abstract thunder
guys what is better to refresh rupture and garrote at 4 or 3 sec or when they are done ?
severe iron
if it isn't empowered by nightstalker (ie it isn't your first one from the opener), then any time during its pandemic window is considered fine iirc
hollow goblet
There's a certain time to "refresh" it
Your nightstalker(d) rtupture should fall off before refresher. a 5 point rupture should be refreshed with less than 6.5 seconds.
Each rupture has it's own timer i'm in Antorus right now so I can't check it.
vapid moth
5pt rupture is 7 seconds.
hollow goblet
Let me find it. It was a really precise time, but yeah roughly around that.
And by "precise time" they narrowed down to the letter on each one.
civic palm
5CP Rupture is 7.2 seconds, Garrote is 5.4 seconds.
Hitting those numbers is dumb though.,
hollow goblet
5 cp. > 7.2
6 cp > 8.4
or less.
civic palm
Round them as you like.
hollow goblet
Yeah, I usually wait as it fits into the rotation. you don't need to time it perfectly, but dont let it fall off.
safe tiger
novel island
plain thistle
@safe tiger PK and MAalch
dark lantern
Dumb question: does the damage from rupture decrease on the Kin'Garoth adds as their initializing stacks drop off, or is it a set damage per tick based on how many stacks the add had when you applied it?
civic palm
Rupture damage is dynamic.
dark lantern
that's what I figured since it was affected by vendetta
dark lantern
if the adds are dying super fast(say 12-15 seconds), is it better to use the nighstalker snapshot on envenom rather than garrote or rupture on the adds then?
civic palm
Better off Vanish ~> Envenoming as there's no way to make sure it will stay alive for the entire duration of that Empowered Rupture.
dark lantern
I went from running with a kinda underpowered group to a superpowered group and I'm having to adapt my strategies for adds that actually die before initializing ends
civic palm
Yep, just focus on your damage as much as you can.
onyx falcon
depending on the amount of dps, ive done it where (heroic) the first add i had KB + TB and the 2nd n 3rd add i had both full rotations n melted the adds so π
varies
strange python
If kingsbane is active with 5 seconds left, but my rupture is about to drop
do i prop refreshing my rupture or envenom
prio* not prop
i run into this issue a lot while on the dummy
it might be a result or not having the right flow or the rotation. not sure
of*
lost horizon
Rupture
Your envenom uptime is higher value earlier in KB
And you still get SoT to buff KB dmg
But you should plan better
And not be in that situation in the first place
@strange python ^
lost horizon
π
bright vortex
Hi all, just looking for some tips with maximising dps on Argus. Is it better to delay vendetta at all for the first crit/mastery buffs or just do the rotation al usual?
slim estuary
@bright vortex if heroic you probably just use usual rotation, Iβve never taken effort to hold. For mythic probably like it up with when mechanics arenβt fucking you. If farm mythic you probably know what to do after 300 wipes
bright vortex
@slim estuary Thanks for that!
slim estuary
@bright vortex no problem. Remember cloaking soul blight right on top of melee group is a buff too!
lost horizon
Don't forget you can evade the scythes that shoot across the room!
(now nobody tell him he has to face the direction they're coming from)
steep obsidian
evasion works on most physical hits
that why the step evasion trait is actually op
lost horizon
Yeah, but like I said you need to face the direction they hit you from @hazy iron
hazy iron
Are you referring ti the red ones?
Yeah i know, which was why i was confused when i couldnt get itnto work on the red ones
Likely worked on the one i was facing but not the one from the side
lost horizon
P2 and P3
If you want to dodge red ones you need to look into the corner where the two lines meet
Otherwise you'll face one and get hit in the side by the other, gotta be diagonal
Honestly it's easier to just stand with the group, but a good trick if you need to cloak soak some of the little orbs that chase peeps
hazy iron
Yeah i know, ive only had to be on the outside twice, my spot with rage in p3 us normally on the wall. We killed it a month ago, but had a bunch of core call it quits since, so basically reprog with a new team
lost horizon
I gotchya, sounds like a pain
civic phoenix
When do I use Mantle/Bracers vs Bracers/Boots?
stark heart
What you prefer
steep obsidian
sim them they are probably close depends on what offsect pieces you have
stark heart
And what fight favors as well
steep obsidian
but yeah what lorentz said sometimes its nice to not be tethered as much to having to sync your vanish up with shit
or if you are pulling a boss in m+ and vanish isnt up on the pull
use boots bracers then
civic phoenix
thanks m8s
steep obsidian
the top parses are all shoulders though just coz shoulder bombs are huge
but its allrng
fiery nest
It's not only bombs but the cp generation but yea tops are double/triple pbs during
burnt forge
hey guys, trying to get into Assassination a little bit for my guild's M Kin progression, I was just wondering, should I try to use Toxic Blade on CD or always hold it to pair with Kingsbane?
safe matrix
on cd
you can hold it for up to 5 seconds so you hit the last part of kingsbane if you miss the initial bit
but pairing them is a loss iirc
You don't wanna lose a cast of toxic blade or kingsbane over a fight
think of both of them as their own SoD
burnt forge
Gotcha, thanks a bunch
atomic grotto
u can use shoulders+boots on kingaroth mythic progression
so u can have vendetta up for add and boss
u just dont use it on the openet
opener*
burnt forge
Boss damage seems to be okay, it's just the adds aren't really dying fast enough
would the boots result in more add damage than zoldyck's benefit?
atomic grotto
well not really
it pushes ur boss damage
although with bracers i think the benefit is minimal
i just like mantle boots in this fight π
u have vendetta up for everything and u have vanish burst for every add
burnt forge
ahh gotcha, thanks for the tips!
atomic grotto
do u have any master assassin relics?
dire spoke
Yeah, 3MAss help quite a bit for progression with the additional boss vend
in farm it's like ... whatever
stark heart
Kin is good mantle boots fights since you can fit 1 ven into boss between add waves
apart from that just save vanish for adds and pray for pb
fiery nest
uh if you're on kin prog don't use any cd on pull
boss dmg means nothing
what liavre said is fine for st but you need to save cds for the adds
its been a while, but u should be able to TB->KB on pull but no vend or vanish for sure
save that for add
stark heart
uh if you're on kin prog don't use any cd on pull
you can use TB and KB
fiery nest
see my edit π
stark heart
you said that yeah
orchid swallow
y is poison bomb back in bfa
orchid swallow
what talent are we supposed to take for st in bfa?
orchid swallow
hopefully in that balance pass it's replaced
solid nova
It wont be replaced
stark heart
since it's beta I wouldn't hold any hope to see talents changed mechanically
or like conceptually
dire spoke
it will be viable for next mage tower
orchid swallow
yeah, venom rush atm is bad, especially cause it competes with TB and it's straight useless during blindside procs/execute
solid nova
Blindside 
orchid swallow
dispatch/blindside same shit different pile
solid nova
Mut still does more damage than blindside, even in execute iirc
hollow goblet
Why do you call it a dead talent?
solid nova
You'll be taking MP > BS
orchid swallow
MP is boring, while leveling i like having the extra bind on my bars
hollow goblet
Are you talking BFA talents or current legion?
orchid swallow
bfa
hollow goblet
Oh okay.
I find it hard to be enthusiastic about beta stuff. Shit gets changed too much
solid nova
Why does the strength of a talent matter for leveling
stark heart
has to minmax everything
yeah blindside is currently not so great
It's nice to play with it because it adds some button pressing to Assa
solid nova
APM 
orchid swallow
that's what i was saying, while it's pretty well known mp>blindside while leveling having the extra button to press is more fun
solid nova
36 
orchid swallow
:^) you can get it up by strafing left and right
stark heart
granted BfA APL we did with @warm parcel is like severely underdeveloped and it didn't use TB/Exsang
but still it's like 10 APM lower than I would want personally
strange python
is the web site down ?
orchid swallow
it was for a bit but it's back
strange python
oh nice π
marble hemlock
@stark heart any of those sims public so one could have a look at what things look like currently?
stark heart
no I don't think so. weak did on locally built simc
austere trail
What's the highest apm class out there in beta?
solid nova
If there's data for that, it isnt public π€·πΌ
sudden bolt
Noob question i know, but what uptime should i be aiming for on Surge of Toxins?
marble hemlock
technically you would want 100%, but thats not even close to being achievable, unless for very specific circumstances, gear and bossfights
sudden bolt
i'm currently getting around 75-80% on fights it seems (i'm fairly new to Assass, only using WA to track garrote and rupture atm)
marble hemlock
thats pretty good already
sudden bolt
with my DoT uptimes being around perfect is that the next thing i should be focusing on? and if so whats a realistic target? 90%?
marble hemlock
for a pure singletarget fight, 80-90% is a pretty good margin
agile token
hi guys...just dropped a memento 965...is good? i replace a shadowfang 935
spare cloud
sim it
solar willow
In cold blood fashion
fleet siren
guys are there any stats caps for the spec?
solid nova
No
lone junco
@sudden bolt if your bleed uptimes are over 98%. And sot is fine. Next step is to look at Tb windows. Make sure you are getting 2 or 3 env per. And 100% env buff/sot during KB. After that get 50 crit and transition to ep. After that pray for more bombs.
@fleet siren I've hit 100% mut cut with argus buffs. So that's a soft cap. You don't change play much because the rest of the fight is unbuffed. But still neat.
@echo estuary there is zero chance Tom has ever maintained high sot. He runs like 28/225. Stupid low crit cause he likes shoulder bombs.
@solid nova I need to take up knitting prior to bfa. Will give me something to do during the 36apm.
stark heart
Play cookie clicker on second screen
solid nova
Yeah mate I'll be on the zen side of life anyway
prime void
My SoT uptime is like 96-97%
lone junco
Good crit
chilly bear
some recomendations for AOE trinkets, or same as Single Target?
echo estuary
Tom was the most proficient rogue player here, sadly he got banished before he could reveal to us these weird tips and tricks that made him dominate anthorus
spare cloud
zealous dew
dominate π
abstract thunder
!help
chrome tuskBOT
!simc, !outlawguide, !singuide, !subguide, !enchants, !relics, !trinkets
echo estuary
!relationships
hasty pivot
I wonder if Exsanguinate will be a thing in bfa
viscid helm
why
uneven lantern
how do you check the envenom buff uptime when going through logs>?
viscid helm
you...check the buff from the buff tab?
uneven lantern
well im looking for it, i cant find it
viscid helm
link the log
uneven lantern
nvm found it, my eyes are just fucking with me lol
do you guys do log analysis? I usually do 50-70% perf avg, i wanna pump it up to 80+, feel like im doing everything right
wise frigate
Dump the logs and brace your butt. Someone will rip em apart eventually.
uneven lantern
Do i just link my character on warcraftlogs? (sorry I'm new to whole logging thing)
wise frigate
Easier if you link a specific fight (preferably Vari, easiest to work out problems on that fight), or if you can't get that, just link the character and people can get to your logs from there.
uneven lantern
lilac osprey
Is sin more of a spec where you pool energy seems like Iβm energy starved allot. New rogue
wise frigate
Yes.
solid nova
@uneven lantern You'll find it hard to get an overall high log with your current gear this late into expansion Parses for your item level are decent. You didnt hold vanish for vendetta in your vari kill which you should be doing
uneven lantern
oh, I thought my ilvl was taken in consideration
turbid harbor
use vanish during vendetta and tb, you didn't in the log linked
solid nova
Your overall will be
uneven lantern
so no matter what i keep vanish untill vendetta is up?
turbid harbor
there will be fringe cases in long fights where you miss a vanish cast if you don't slightly delay other cds
but generally yes
uneven lantern
@solid nova okay! thanks! So when i parse 20% on mythic, its compared to all rogues?
solid nova
Yes mate
lethal heart
to all rogues with that spec
solid nova
First circle, overall parse for that spec. Second circle, parse for ilvl.
uneven lantern
aaaaah, thank you so much π
solid nova
Just remember that ilvl parses are some what an iffy area. As the lower the item level, generally the less parses = inflated ilvl rank
But for heroic and early mythic, i dont think 955+ falls into that scenario
Not at this point in the expansion anyway
uneven lantern
I see. Do you think bracers instead of boots would bump up my dps significally?
solid nova
That's something you can sim for if you wanted specifics, can help you with that if you need mate.
uneven lantern
youve already done enough π I assume its just through raidbots? i m gonna try and figure it out π
proven granite
was wondering, is there any kind of rogue cheese out and going these days? remember back in WoD when you could use tier set from MoP to get 2x CP before you start boss fight.
proven granite
problem is that you will proc your Trinkets etc before the fight making you fall behind
turbid harbor
pulling a boss resets all rppm mechanics like concordance and trinkets
even if you proc them on a rat it doesn't matter for the boss fight
unless you do concordance opener with thrown knife pre pull but that isn't worth with mantle
proven granite
so the opener will be Rupture --> garrot --> kingsbane --> Toxic blade --> vanish --> envenom
turbid harbor
that looks pretty spicy
lean hill
You're missing stuff, and it's out of order
solid nova
proven granite
how would your opener be then?
solid nova
I assume you've not read the guide
viscid helm
better start by reading the guide
wise frigate
I think he's talking if you Mut the cockroach for the CPs. Or maybe he's just high.
solid nova
He is talking about that yes
lean hill
Youd still TB before KB
viscid helm
still doesnt make any sense
solid nova
Its still wrong
lethal heart
even if you have all the cps pre boss fight
dont they reset?
i know chi on monk does reset pre boss fight
lean hill
Outlaw MfD you use it before pull
lethal heart
yea actually true
turbid harbor
if you start with 5cp, i would [ rupture, garrote, tb, kb, envenom ] mut x2 [vanish evenom etc...
lethal heart
i'm stupid
wise frigate
As long as you are the first one to hit the boss it shouldn't reset. I do that sometimes on my DH with gloves.
turbid harbor
[] being 5gcd in crit window
turbid harbor
who cares when you use vendetta
lethal heart
gotta save vendetta for next vanish
turbid harbor
put it anywhere
lean hill
I used MfD to get CP for a bones roll while we gamble
solid nova
Wait
lean hill
Good results so far
echo estuary
save vendetta for nxt raid
solid nova
You dont vendetta the rats?
turbid harbor
since it's not on global it isn't an actual decision
lethal heart
because you just cap so much energy
turbid harbor
better wait 4 months
lethal heart
π€·
lone junco
@uneven lantern 1.922 is pretty normal/good for 955 range. You wont compete with people that are 975. Best target is to try and be 95% of your simc avg for a ST fight.
proven granite
but wouldnt you spent Toxic blade after kingsbane to increase the dmg of Kingsbane?
turbid harbor
or maybe [rupture tb kb envenom mut] garrote [vanish envenom etc...
because fuck garrote
solid nova
Its a good thing not applying poisons is only a 1.1k dps loss
proven granite
Think it was another guide that messed with my head ^^
but 15% increased dmg on kingsbane doesnt show up on the debuff list on add tho
solid nova
viscid helm
no it doesnt cos its pointless clutter
the point is
Kingsbanes intial hit
is fairly strong
so you TB first
to buff the KB's intial hit
lone junco
and also. to not waste TB for fight duration
lethal heart
are there any cases where lucky concordance proc would impact how you play certain situations
as assa?
solemn rapids
What's gonna be ass ass main stat next xpac?
turbid harbor
spirit
lethal heart
spirit
rofl
when did they remove that
wotlk?
they replaced it entirely by mana per 5 or some shit
turbid harbor
it was a thing when i quit in wotlk
and wasn't a thing when i started in legion again
so some time between there π
mp5 was a thing in wotlk as well
combination of the 2 were your mana regen
turbid harbor
but spirit used to give hp regen in classic and tbc
lone junco
I loved spirit on Priest.
lethal heart
because even if you had 100% armour pen you still benefited a lot if you used sunder
lone junco
you either stacked int and had 12k mana or stacked spirit /mp5 and played with timing bursts
lethal heart
i actually healed for a bit in wrath i wasnt good for sure because never read any guide
was playing holy priest
managed to down some hard moed bosses in ulduar some way
idk how, probably got giga boosted frankly
lone junco
5s rule was really neat tbh.
solid nova
ArP had diminishing returns on it
vapid moth
Hmmm?
lone junco
heal heal heal wait for the 4th or 6th sec to start a big heal and you would regen plenty in the cast duration
we had a Greater heal chain that could keep any tank up indefinitely with a 80-100% heal landing every 1 sec.
rip that.
solemn rapids
Energy Regen in legion lul
Raiding in antorus before I got my 4 set was hell
Legit didn't get my final piece till I was over 960 ilvl
lone junco
Even an LFR piece would be an upgrade over non tier heroic
dont be silly.
I got my 4p within the 2nd or 3rd week.
but if you dont have enough crit to drop shoulders then rip you.
spare cloud
heavy linden
at what point have you reached the point you can drop shoulders with crit?
spare cloud
when it sims higher
heavy linden
fair enough i guess
lone junco
early bracer boot work started taking off at like 38% crit. but now people are in the 40s and 50s
once you can hit the 50s, EP builds take over.
heavy linden
i would be simming bracers/boots against bracers/shoulders yea?
spare cloud
My bracer boot build almost sims as much with 31% π€·
heavy linden
eek you just said it lol
lone junco
bracer/boot
hat/boot
insig/bracer
insig/boot
heavy linden
yeah im at like 30ish% before EoC
i was under the impression that helm was far from optimal? or did i just confuse myself somewhere?
spare cloud
Nobody uses helmet
lone junco
there are lots of options at the high end
Saliathan uses hat boot.
but he has 0vend.
and prob 42/190
spare cloud
seliathan uses boots bracers for his top logs
lone junco
its not his top sim
heavy linden
i mean the energy regen would be kinda nice for maintaining SoT and Env buffs, but it seems like a really niche thing
lone junco
anyway. there are a lot of options, it prob depends on your shittiest non orange spot.
spare cloud
it might be more consistent
lone junco
I have bad bracers, so I wont beat a bracer build prob
lone junco
and I have disgustingly good rings
spare cloud
doesn't have a single log with boots helmet
that overtake his shoulders/bracers or boots/bracers logs
lone junco
imo, bracers lose a lot of RL value on farm, when people arent dying, and you have lots of executes
novel island
I like good rings
spare cloud
I'd argue that helmet loses value with high crit
lone junco
he literally posted a sim of 2.4m with hat boot. Im not making the shit up
i dont care either way.
its been a while
spare cloud
Nah he used it on some bosskills
but the logs don't compare to boots/bracers
Like I said its same with ring
higher average more consistency
lone junco
same with Tyra insig. most people dont play it.
spare cloud
but less top
lone junco
but it is still an option
echo estuary
i'm really happy for seliathan but Tom had the best parses of all time. ALL TIME
spare cloud
But ring is easier to pull off
lone junco
Tom is a clown. π€‘
spare cloud
And it has some top play to see that its viable
helmet for some reason doesn't
guess why
π€·
lone junco
Ive never used hat.
echo estuary
but you ment toph play
lone junco
spare cloud
Yeh
drifting cloud
4% is the amount of haste with shoulders/bracer and 960 tier gloves
lone junco
pretty sure my exang is 3 or 4.
48/118
or something
new mog day. We picked blue.
was hard to get a blue hat but w/e
steep obsidian
i got a 2.4m parse on kinga but didn't have anything to hit for like 30 secs
too many idiots hitting mah add π¦
h kinga coz mythic is hard yo
lethal heart
we always have 2 fury warriors
that literally smack the boss
5 seconds before transition
when i hold all my shit
actually tilting
heavy linden
i mean @lone junco when the entire guild is pulling a 99+ parse...
lethal heart
heavy linden
oops, mb, two healers were only at 97 and 80... /shrug
drifting cloud
its dogs if you stack them and dont die everyone will get a good parse
just gotta wipe 10+ times for it to work, pass
steep obsidian
doesnt sound like much π
lean hill
@lone junco helm of the night watchman or whatever would go better than nightslayer, colors match up more
lone junco
Would stack be belt bracer?
honest pelican
how often do the coin chests carry the artful items? , wondering if ishould stick with vanishing powder and stuff when keys arent up
lean hill
Afaik it's all random, dont know that one type has better odds or not
I'm pretty sure I got boots or mask from the gold chest
hoary copper
Depends on your ilvl how you parse, if thats at like 960 or below then prob not if you're at like 970 then probably
zealous dew
join a guild that kills in 2m, profit
celest salmon
im 965:(
hoary copper
@lone junco Jesus your spriest is a beast
novel island
Doesn't mean you're itemized well.
celest salmon
but don't know if my main problem is mastery or crit etc.
hoary copper
Im sure there's some room, post a link to logs
celest salmon
didn't notice that @hoary copper π
lone junco
@hoary copper no mine. just the top log for rogue on dogs.
hoary copper
ooh
celest salmon
but i need help from other assassination rogues so if there is still hope for me 
lone junco
need a log man.
hoary copper
As I said post a log.
Noobe is a good log person
That poor enhance shammie
...that is not a log
that is a picture
lone junco
and dont get all bent when someone says to stop delaying TB
your Rogue/server name will be a start
celest salmon
Shadoo - Shattered Hand
fervent beacon
TBonCD
hoary copper
Those mythic logs tho
celest salmon
those are sweet xD
lone junco
sec
zealous dew
cd on tb
lone junco
Your vanish was without vendetta. this is a major mistake
you hold vanish until your vendetta is ready. Small nuance would have been to delay that vendetta/vanish combo for the TB.
The envenom gaps during your kbs were a bit problematic.
celest salmon
So i definetly want to wait with vanish so i can do a combo with vanish and vendetta?
zealous dew
vanish envenm garrote rupture
lone junco
this is your target. and your actual outcomes are a little, but not crazy.
for reference my 962 shoulder bracer sims at 2.04m so about right.
so your gear is fine.
but the vanish is garbage.
novel island
It has been awhile, but don't you vanish to a 4/5P rupture if using NS.
zealous dew
tbh, he's doing major mistakes opener and vanish
also since you should never rupture in TB or KB window
unless you can sustain envenom in kb
(high crit required)
celest salmon
well, i asked some time ago and he's best idea on the opener is to faceroll the kb
zealous dew
opener is fine, vanish is not
lone junco
aside from this pbomb the delay on vanish to vendetta in bracer was a good idea.
the vanish is at 2:45 to wait for vendetta
zealous dew
I mean the spells he uses in vanish
lone junco
zealous dew
lone junco
π¦
zealous dew
what's this garbage dude
lean hill
Everyone getting these TFs. Only avoidance for me these days. Maybe I'll be unkillable by the time bfa drops
celest salmon
can someone tell me the proper way to get a good opener?
novel island
He just showed u...
celest salmon
aah, ty
celest salmon
what is that ring he has?
lone junco
your gear is fine. Fix your vendetta vanish timing and then we can worry about the rest of the stuff
mid block vanish looks like this.,
vendetta Tb Vanish 3 env.
hoary copper
The opener is in the sin guide too, it has great references if you cant remember all noobe has said
!singuide
chrome tuskBOT
Assassination guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
celest salmon
ty for all:)
zealous dew
that's a sexy vanish
lone junco
tbh, fixing your vanish will prob push you to 88-90% ilvl. or 1.9-2m st. when you are going for matching simc avg. there is a lot of nuance for KB and TB
@exotic glen nice varith btw.
hoary copper
He's muted still or again
stark heart
Argonic got muted?
floral loom
Whats the thought on using Vendetta with the opener before Garrote (what's in simc) vs using it after your first rupture?
lone junco
My thought is that the standard opener works fine and I dont want to vendetta from out of melee range.
stark heart
@gusty kestrel that is not entirely true. Default sims are 5 mins +- 20%
lone junco
its very insignificant in the scope of fight length.
yeah. 5min sim is 4m - 6m
effectively the diff is prob vend on mut during shoulder. because I dont think the garrote and rupture start at application
hoary copper
@stark heart Yep, used frowned on words
strange python
god the energy regen is so shit on beta.
i miss my tier
I like crimson tempest but I feel like I can't afford to just use it
viscid helm
BFA btw
lone junco
Yeah. For st if you tunnel and maintain, it's not so bad. If you try multi rupture on 3 and FOK you lose your env uptime. Shit crit slows everything down.
hoary copper
dedspec
tardy belfry
Hello, I just got shoulders as my first leggo. Does it change the rotation or should I treat it as a passive bonus?
violet elm
hoary copper
@tardy belfry yes it does a little, I recommend checking out the sin guide
!singuide
chrome tuskBOT
Assassination guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
tardy belfry
Thx
plain thistle
@lethal heart welcome to korean buying logs, look at his antoran log, 6.6M dps
he is basically the only one hitting adds, everyone else is just there to support him, with grips and interrupts
rank1 in 4-6 fight on the same week π
viscid helm
I dont think letting 1-2 people rank is a big thing anymore in EU/NA
turbid harbor
makes sin rogue all star look silly
turbid harbor
I donβt even have 1k points anymore π
turbid harbor
then I guess nobody has 1k anymore xd
plain thistle
but if you think about it, every fight can be abused
yup
next month all star = garothi and argus π
π€· yup, if you try hard, every fight can be abused
and with this tier lasting so long, more guilds have the opportunity to do that
turbid harbor
also fuck Argus logs
you canβt cheese it but the amount of coin flips you need in your favour to parse is horrible
lilac osprey
with nightstalker when I vanish. Should it 100% of the time always be used on rupture? even if I I have to wait for my current rupture to enter pandemic stage.
sage turtle
: Gorshalach's Legacy
- Any good for AoE in any spec?
dire spoke
no
chrome tuskBOT
Assassination guide: http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/
tulip grotto
hey guys, on upper if we shadowstep with flame wreath does it disappear or boom?
lean hill
Still goes off. Best to stand back a bit when it's being cast on you then step once it goes off
lean hill
I wouldnt think the mechanic changes for them. Probably just never an issue since you can blink then pick up dps anywhere vs rogue who needs to be in melee
trim dirge
ummm pretty sure mages canβt blink out
lean hill
Figure youd blink on cast just like SS, I dont play mage though
trim dirge
I mean once youβre in youβre in
Flame wreath goes off if you leave the circle
Moving while its casting is different yeah
lean hill
Oh fuck flame wreath
I was thinking the other one
Nevermind, dont try to shadowstep out lol
vapid moth
ceaseless winter?
lean hill
No the other fire one
vapid moth
fire blast?
lean hill
If that is the name then yes. It casts on a circle around you but you can shadowstep out
tulip grotto
inferno bolt
vapid moth
flame wreath is the ring
tulip grotto
flame wreath wipes raid if you move out
but icoulswear if mages blinked wright as it casted
lean hill
They both have rings kind of. The bolt blows up around you doesnt it
And wreath stays there
I've shadowstepped too early and had bolt go off on my tank
trim dirge
Yeah Aido might be thinking of the same thing, you can move away from inferno bolt damage but not flame wreath
lone junco
thats what our arcane mage looks like in imps tbh. but we dont try to help him.
its not like he's bad to begin with.
exotic glen
finally unmuted
void pecan
rekt
civic palm
That must have been less than 24hrs.
exotic glen
it was exactly 24 hours
civic palm
Not too bad... hope you learned your lesson? I dunno.
You probably didn't say anything all too bad > _>
exotic glen
yeah you cant say certain words
manic vigil
which one did you say?
jovial kite
like retroactive
manic vigil
civic palm
You hittem with the Retist?
jovial kite
drop the retish
civic palm
π΅ π΅ π΅
exotic glen
it was the a-word
wise frigate
jovial kite
angory?
exotic glen
cant say it or i get muted again
manic vigil
why you no take my 
wise frigate
manic vigil
jovial kite
apologist
civic palm
Accountantist
jovial kite
Kappa
wise frigate
American?
manic vigil
civic palm
Booyah
hoary copper
Alacrity, thats what it was
civic palm
BAN THIS MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN
manic vigil
nice assa talk btw
exotic glen
wise frigate
<
exotic glen
jovial kite
Whats the chemical map name for gold
civic palm
Au?
jovial kite
and titanium
civic palm
Ti?
manic vigil
so creative
manic vigil
imagine you would use your intelligence for the good of mankind slagg 
jovial kite
Yeah
civic palm
That's a thing > _> totally.
manic vigil
instead of memeing in here
jovial kite
And Sodium polyoxyethylene lauryl ether sulfate
wise frigate
manic vigil
civic palm
uhhuh
jovial kite
checkmate ists
wise frigate
jovial kite
You could also use samarium
exotic glen
tfw i get muted for saying that and this is our healer in dreamgrove
hazy iron
Is it BFA time yet? :((((((
exotic glen
marble hemlock
that new poe league looks lit
wise frigate
manic vigil
I have never been muted, I feel neglected somehow
exotic glen
Just say the a-word dude
supple hearth
@manic vigil or just ask for it
manic vigil
I wanted to bait you into muting me for no reason and getting rekt for it
giggle too smart to get confirmed
supple hearth
Just don't fall for the subtle bait into a stjern ban
manic vigil
stjern ban sounds like fun though 
random ginkgo
Hey, was playing sub and outlaw the whole addon until now, any tips to master assa? ( besides the guides), do you let envenom buff run out even in vendetta?
civic palm
There's a guide at the top of the channel. That answer is in it.
lone junco
Is there already another new poe league?
late folio
Quick question in bfa beta what talent i should use
civic palm
Experiment.
supple hearth
The ones you want to test
civic palm
He didn't say anything else? o_O
supple hearth
Nope. Was a silly question lol.
safe matrix
I legitimately don't get people like that
"hey guys are there any assassin guide for the beta?"
like
?????????//
vapid moth
"whats the optimal dps build"
agile spire
so I read the guide i'm confused bc I only use tb when kb is at ~9 seconds, is that true except on the opener?
vapid moth
youre really only supposed to do that if it lines up that way
agile spire
so would it be optimal to wait on the opener since it technically lines up that way?
vapid moth
no. opener is the opener
im saying youre not supposed to do it in the rotation that way
safe matrix
if KB and TB line up you want to use TB before to buff the initial kingsbane hit, you can hold 5 seconds if TB isnt up before so you hit the later ticks of KB which hit harder
you use KB on cd
and TB on CD
except pretty much in the above case
vapid moth
^^
safe matrix
you don't play them with eachother its a loss to do that
vapid moth
typing wit one hand so
agile spire
you're okay, and I'm sorry I'm dumb but when is the specific time it would line up like that?
supple hearth
I just use them on cd
agile spire
where I would wait to tb
vapid moth
when tb comes off cooldown up to 5 sec before kb
safe matrix
but if kb is up and TB has a couple seconds, you can hold TB up to 5 ish seconds so you buf the alst ticks of KB
which hit harder than the initial few ticks ones
iirc you can also hold for vendetta
agile spire
okay gotcha, thank you guys
safe matrix
but when you hold TB
you want to use it optimally, but you NEVER EVER want to lose a cast over a fight
so you cant hold it too long
and with a cd of 25 seconds
you dont have much leeway
agile spire
okay cool thanks man
random ginkgo
well i didnt find it in the guide... thats kidna why im asking
vapid moth
find what scream?
safe matrix
you want to maximise uptime of envenom
you dont really spam it except in TB windows
and the only time you need to have 100% uptime is during kingsbane
random ginkgo
alright many thanks, TB? True Bearing?π
safe matrix
toxic blade
random ginkgo
okay, I dont know how to feel to not spam my stuff during my burst cd to maximize uptime
scenic rapids
what build have people been running on beta?
vapid moth
congrats?
scenic rapids
Sorry. Was just curious to know what people were using. My bad.
vapid moth
im not even in beta lol so i cant help with that
safe matrix
Well during toxic blade you want to spam finsihers for a poison bomb proc, and during kingsbane you want 100% uptime on envenom to buff the kingsbane dot. outside those two windows are maintenance @random ginkgo
viscid helm
i like to use builds that actually deal damage
safe matrix
poison bomb in its current stage is considered to be garbage
on the beta
CT is nutty
scenic rapids
even for ST? o-o
safe matrix
no
hidden blades in its current scaling is the ST one
but this is why
you test shit out
scenic rapids
ah
safe matrix
during beta is like the one time you don't get shamed for feelcrafting things
scenic rapids
late folio
ursiel just for fun how much dps you are pulling with this spec and what s your item level equipped
supple hearth
I mean that's what you should be doing If you have beta. You should be testing different builds out and telling US what is good lol
random ginkgo
@safe matrix okay thanks, feels already smoother
half tartan
Which specs are looking fun / competitive on Beta?
obtuse cedar
Any sin rogue that I can ask questions about CD rotation on M Argus ?
obtuse cedar
k, well then I don't know what to do on pull and after first cone ; should I hold vanish for first buff if I don't get rage and should I KB after spread out (after 1st cone ?)
That kind of stuff, I feel like loosing a lot of dps on that kind of timings
exotic glen
i dont hold it, but you know i might suck dick so let me pull up some other peoples logs
sand whale
no need to delay your cds just play smarter you have all the tools to negate most bad things thrown at you in p1
exotic glen
rank 1-5 top assa rogues dont hold it, and i wouldnt recommend it either
obtuse cedar
Alright, thanks, and should I delay 2nd vendetta for the next set of buffs, even if I might get a rage ? (8 melees atm)
dire spoke
π
sand whale
use CDs on CD
exotic glen
stop holding your cds man
obtuse cedar
Yeah ikr, I don't usually do it, but on Argus it feels really different, because buffs are quite important
drifting cloud
8 melees on argus sounds like loads of fun
obtuse cedar
Yeah, that's the only positive thing
But warrior charging with rage is very very meh
Well thanks, I thought Argus as sin was much more complicated than that
Switching to sin just for the exec, was playing sub before
Feels different
exotic glen
sin is much more braindead and forgiving, which is great
sand whale
look at it this way you have all your CDs before stacking your buff, by the time you pick up like the 3rd or 4th you can vendetta again, vanish again comes back after your buff expires
exotic glen
also, the execute on argus isnt needed anymore, they nerfed his hp just so you know
sand whale
so there's really zero point in that encounter to hold cds
exotic glen
you can play sub if you want
obtuse cedar
Would love to play sub ; but 8 melees, DfA will wreck everyone and get me stacks from nowhere
drifting cloud
you can also play boots bracers
obtuse cedar
From what I've experienced at least
Done few pulls, and I couldn't DfA on CD without risking to hurt myself/the raid
smoky tulip
We killed it with 8 melee (incl 3rd tank)
Wasnβt too bad. Just need balls of steel when spreading
obtuse cedar
Not impossible I guess, but when it comes down to tight areas, spreading becomes difficult
And it requires people to help each other with positionning
Wich sometimes is quite tricky
smoky tulip
But we extended 4 weeks to kill Argus and have now forgotten how to kill Aggramar (even after nerfs) feelsretardedman
Best tip I can give with so many melee is you have rages stay still until Fears have stacked up, then rages are free to reposition.
If someone gets rage rebuffs, itβs their own fault
obtuse cedar
Already what I'm trying to do, but some people don't seem to care and just screw everything up by randomly using dashes
Really tilting to have someone smash u with rage when you were in a good spot to join your raid lul
smoky tulip
Blinks and rolls are stupid on argus
exotic glen
we had a mage straight up blink on our varimathras kill today, which of course spawned an add instantly because he was casting pyro
obtuse cedar
I like when people leave each other when they have fear with blinks or shadowstep
smoky tulip
Absolutely no need for them. We had 3 mages and a MW monk moving everywhere for blights etc and it created way more hassle. Tell em to stop
obtuse cedar
They start complaining on Discord and we just repull when that occurs too many times kek
sand whale
how many pulls have you had and is it always the same raid comp
obtuse cedar
about 80 pulls and changed the comp once, switching from a vdh to a bear for third tank
sand whale
if people haven't learnt a position by however many wipes then really it's just lame having to work around that guild
obtuse cedar
but we did like 20 pulls without knowing anything about the fight
and tonight a titanslayer joined the raid and helped us with that
sand whale
our kills have always been melee heavy 7-8 and we've all got our spots
even with a different roster we all know our positions by now
obtuse cedar
but we have really unexperienced people in the raid
people doing their first mythic tier with us
so we don't know everyone well
desert dune
So i've got Kjs, Dreadlord's, Insignia, Cinidaria, and I just got Duskwalker's, what would be best for M+? I'm torn between boots + Dreadlord's or Boots + Kjs
sand whale
make a suggestion to the officer or just talk amongst the melee group lol
like "yo man stop doing that stupid shit you're doing"
obtuse cedar
been doing that, but people start going full panic mode when they have fear blight and cone is coming up
same goes for rage
dark crag
argus on farm is a nightmare
obtuse cedar
will take some more pulls to get a p1 with everyone making it alive
or they're just focusing on getting buffs and ends up stacking the raid/baiting a shit cone
drifting cloud
do you have atleast fixed sides for melee in p1?
sand whale
the emphasis is going to be on your ranged to bait melee gets a free pass in p1 as long as they don't enjoy bathing in rages
exotic glen
@desert dune if you switch between aoe gear and st gear for min/maxing i'd go with kj/dreadlords for trash, insignia/boots for bosses
exotic glen
if not, just go boots cloak
obtuse cedar
we did, but they can't figure out when they need to repositon themselves after a spread
desert dune
Okay I thought so, thanks alot @exotic glen , Appreciate it.
exotic glen
np
obtuse cedar
and people with rage sometimes just take too much space around the boss
and u simply can't hit or they end up stacking some people near boss
guess we'll have to pull more and more kek
sand whale
that'll be a positioning requirement your raid needs to learn imo
drifting cloud
well rage people just need to go out of melee for 3seconds when cones come
exotic glen
try and straight up assign people where to stand with rages in p1 nimportekwa
reduced a bit of the panic for our raid
sand whale
when we run 7-8 we have 2 melee on the very sides with 2 camps in between them then on days we havve 3 rogues we just have all our rogues stack on one point lol
obtuse cedar
will try to tell that to the officer
but they are mostly ranged
and they don't really understand our struggle
drifting cloud
theres also a WA
obtuse cedar
and he straight up laughed at me when I told them xd
obtuse cedar
the circle thingy that becomes green when it's ok ?
exotic glen
tell them that the reason you are wiping is that, and you cant progress until they fix it
drifting cloud
ye
obtuse cedar
we already have that
but some people start moving too late
and just stand in middle of the people already spread out
so everyone has to move
sand whale
yeah it's much mroe beneficial to get a feel for it and get past p1 smoothly else last phase will become a problem again
obtuse cedar
and that's even worse
drifting cloud
and dks/rogues can just cloak off the stacks so its something atleast
sand whale
that's not too bad, you can try our class stack lol
all druids clump
you don't have rage blink the f out
drifting cloud
does that actually work without getting 1 stack
exotic glen
lmao that sounds dumb
sand whale
yeah that's how our rogues do it but yeah it's not very safe lol
exotic glen
was about to use a taboo word but dont wanna get muted again
drifting cloud
feels like youd get 1 stack alot of the time
sand whale
yeah our healers are geared enough now that healing 1-2 stacks is possible haven't really had any problems with rekills until we sub someone in completely new
but best of luck @obtuse cedar once it clicks it should click everyone just needs to be a bit vocal about improving positioning