assassination

[lone junco]

Ye. PL is horrible for us.

[strange python]

@lone junco it is stupid becuase for people like me, where even tho I WANT to attend, i just cant (work stuff, family stuff etc), and this just kills my chances on getting some loot

[vestal wren]

but you would need to work in how often the player is aviable rather then set. e.g. in a melee heavy raid ppl would probably swap out melees.

[steep obsidian]

and trading loot just feels

[exotic glen]

its as if literally no one thinks like a human fucking being

[steep obsidian]

bleh

[vestal wren]

PL is master loot once everyone has a certain itemlvl

[steep obsidian]

I raid for the people not for loot wasnt

[lone junco]

@strange python you clearly don't know how the system works then

[strange python]

i do know, its in my current guild @lone junco

and it sucks really

[lone junco]

When I am geared. I will pass on parallel or tiny upgrades.

[steep obsidian]

i happy when a raid member gets useful loot but if some guy come in get bis trinket then scoot next week that doesnt feel like good design to me

it not what we used to

[vestal wren]

also assuming that the azerite pieces are bound to the armor type instead of class you likely can even easier target loot

[lone junco]

You can get stuff cheap later in tier.

[steep obsidian]

neither does trading gear that just feels awkward if someone forcing you to give up a piece of loot that dropped for you

[strange python]

you dont give up

[lone junco]

But if a 995 ssf drops. No fucking way is it going to a 35% attendance scrub.

[strange python]

that loot

[lone junco]

pL is toxic to a raid team.

[steep obsidian]

but some guilds will ask you to

[strange python]

if the item is an upgrade (significant) to you

[lost horizon]

I mean PL can work fine

[strange python]

u dont give it up

[lost horizon]

It's just preference

My raid uses PL

[steep obsidian]

but if its a small upgrde for me and a huge upgrade for someone else why not give it up?

[lost horizon]

I'm not a huge fan but it works fine

My raiders do that

[steep obsidian]

i use ploot with my friends and do that and we all end up with better gear at the end

[strange python]

if they force you to give up an item that is a significant upgrade for you, thats what you call corrupted rl

[steep obsidian]

LOL

no

[strange python]

yeas

[lost horizon]

They'll ask if their piece is a big up for anyone else

If it's only a small up for them

[steep obsidian]

raid leaders have decided on loot for 13 years

[vapid moth]

lol thats when i leave the guild and dont look back

[strange python]

^

[vapid moth]

if its a major upgrade for me im keeping it

[stark heart]

when I have items that gives me 1% increase and gives someone else 5% I would gladly give it

[vapid moth]

fuck that turn in bullshit

[strange python]

sure, if the item is little to no upgrade for you, feel free to give it awayt

[stark heart]

because if you play for progression you play as team

[strange python]

thats fine

[vapid moth]

amen lorentz

[stark heart]

PL is egoistic af

[steep obsidian]

for an organised raid

its shit

for a pug

its great

[strange python]

thats why i said

[stark heart]

pugs couldn't use ML anyway

[strange python]

keep PL for everything but make ML available for mythic prog

[lost horizon]

PL works if the majority of your raid is willing to give up small upgrades for greater good

[stark heart]

you need to have guild group for ML iirc

80%+

[steep obsidian]

THAT IS THE WAY IT IS NOW

[lost horizon]

ML going away is a pain in the ass

[stark heart]

I know

[steep obsidian]

pugs cant masterloot

[vapid moth]

They should just increase the amount of loot mastery loot gives. then id be all for it

[vestal wren]

tbh i hope blizz merges all servers

having a mega server would be so good

[steep obsidian]

but apparently we gotta change things up coz peopel who dont even run with guilds or run mythic don't like masterloot

[lone junco]

And. With currency like our system or dkp. You won't spend on 1%. And it gears lowbys faster.

[stark heart]

PL doesn't really work in that way because if you get ladder of small upgrades you can't trade any of them

[steep obsidian]

^ that too

[lone junco]

And. Wrong stat. Like crit to a warrior or haste to sin.

[strange python]

item lvl upgrades

[stark heart]

yep

[vestal wren]

PL will slow down early progression

i assume thats the main aim

[steep obsidian]

only reason of the change is to slow down gearing

[stark heart]

I got mastery which I hate. can't trade sorry

[vapid moth]

Haste to sin

[steep obsidian]

and then they can tune mtyhic a little easier i guess

[stark heart]

(just an example)

sorry I forgot

think of trials

[strange python]

yeah, he comes, get some sick piece of gear and /gquit

PL at its finest

[lost horizon]

Oh god

Didn't think about trials

I mean my raid already does PL but

Haven't had that happen yet, what a nightmare

[exotic glen]

if 1 piece of gear was what it would take to fail a trial, that would easily be fucking worth it

[strange python]

i think that trials will not be allowed to mythic farm (later progression)

so they dont scum on loot and leave

[steep obsidian]

the change is literally catering for people who it won't effect

i haven't seen anyone who raids mythic at a decent level say the ploot change is good

[exotic glen]

i'd say thats bullet dodged

[vestal wren]

i mean you will not have ppl skyrocket that fast in itemlvl with the loot change

what might be not so bad

[strange python]

lets just all agree

that forced PL over ML sucks

back to assasination topics

[steep obsidian]

taking choice away sucks

yeh

offtopic rants are the best rants

[strange python]

people were talking about vaginas here today for like 1,5h

[exotic glen]

idk i really dont care for ml or pl

[stark heart]

I care about ML from guild perspective

[strange python]

^

especially mythic raiding groups

[onyx falcon]

i feel like i missed somethign while i was away, wuts "PL" n "ML"

[stark heart]

guess I am in minority

[strange python]

you are

because minority of wow community actually raids

[grand lynx]

personal loot, master loot

[strange python]

and minority of that minority raids mythic

[onyx falcon]

ah gotcha

[vapid moth]

We havent discussed the second major difference between the 2 tho

ML gives 4 pieces of loot in a group of 20. PL gives 6

[lone junco]

Trials in our raid get really great gear. Anything a few ilvl down goes for cheap.

[onyx falcon]

is ML still RIP in BfA even though the 1% has already found a way to cheese it?

[stark heart]

ML is rip

[strange python]

but you cant give away loot to certain classes @vapid moth

which is the case right now

becuase u want to push dps check on some bosses

[vapid moth]

there are no more tier tokens either

[steep obsidian]

we still don't know how the azurite armour drops gonna work in raid

[stark heart]

I bet it would kinda feel like legendaries again. You get a piece from a boss that you don't want, and can't even trade

thanks Blizz

[steep obsidian]

or trinkets

they could do something dumb like make all trinkest personal loot like they tested in antorus

[stark heart]

like getting Valeeras sucks

[strange python]

well knowing my luck in terms of getting items i need

[steep obsidian]

not radeable personal loot i mean

[strange python]

i'll be undergeared for a while in bfa

[steep obsidian]

like real personal

[strange python]

lol

[stark heart]

and then you would get suboptimal boots from a raid that are best boots for say your DH

[vapid moth]

im still 962 😦

[stark heart]

too bad you can't do anything about it

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[steep obsidian]

did anyone comment about how they gonna do mythic mounts?

[strange python]

thats not true lorentz

[lone junco]

@stark heart loll. Azerite will bind to class won't it.

[strange python]

u can DE

[lone junco]

Grats rogue.

[steep obsidian]

having them as ploot would be amazing

[stark heart]

no idea tbh

[lone junco]

Just run all leather.

[stark heart]

azerite so far looks like just pieces that drop

[strange python]

azerite will bind to class

[stark heart]

so you can get any leather azerite

thing is it can't wf/tf

[strange python]

you'll be able to switch the azerite gear with respec

[stark heart]

you can't even prefarm to trade it

[strange python]

so you dont have to farm another piece for other spec

[stark heart]

unlike other slots

😄

but I think they would act like tier pieces now

[lone junco]

Need a full defensive set. And dps set.

[steep obsidian]

i think the interface for the armour is still wip on beta

[stark heart]

so separate table

[strange python]

yes

[stark heart]

like from "tier" boss you would be 4 off pieces and 2 azerites

[strange python]

more or less

[steep obsidian]

i havent been able to test shit properly though coz my toons neck is bugged so i cant even use the good armour traits

and cbf making another one to level

[stark heart]

UI is still WIP yes

[drifting crypt]

there are no good armor traits though

they all look like shit on the dungeon pieces

[stark heart]

traits are WIP as well

what we saw so far are leveling ones iirc

[steep obsidian]

i have seen some ok ones

like that are equivalent to trinkets

or the fire mage bracers but weaker

[drifting crypt]

i still dont like that you have almost no choice with these traits

[stark heart]

yeah there are cool ones

[steep obsidian]

nothing op though but you wouldnt expect that in dungeons

[stark heart]

they are like tier bonuses

I wouldn't expect any of them to blow your mind

[drifting crypt]

you have 1 for each specc and then some that everyone can choose

[steep obsidian]

i had one that spwaned orbs for a stat buff like the maidens trinket

and it spawned a lot of them

[drifting crypt]

IMO the way they announced it at blizzcon it sounded cooler that what we have seen so far (in terms of choice / gameplay altering)

[exotic glen]

shocklight is really good

[strange python]

trust the sims

[steep obsidian]

sim multi target too?

[exotic glen]

trust sim ye

[steep obsidian]

but yeh trust sim

[stark heart]

gushing wound tho

[lone junco]

@sinful fulcrum looks like you are going from 2vend to 3.

[steep obsidian]

it "feels" better not having to delay vanish for vendetta for as long with 3 vend over 1

"feels" isnt dps though 😛

that justt my opinion

[pastel crystal]

seems like playing assass sucks for M+ :/

feelsbadman

[steep obsidian]

its not horrible on high keys vlad

[exotic glen]

1 vendetta feels best imo

[steep obsidian]

on low keys if you running cleave heavy yeh its gonna suck

[exotic glen]

but as you said feels isnt dps

[lone junco]

Sin is better when you have two big cleavers. You can focus on prio targets and bosses.

[steep obsidian]

sin is actually great on cos and upper too imo

you can freaking wreck those mini bosses in cos

[lone junco]

I mean. Upper. Is sin gold.

[strange python]

i find NL good for sin too

[pastel crystal]

cant wait until legendaries arent a thing

i feel so pathetic without shoulders

[steep obsidian]

oh yeah i understand why you think rogue kinda sucks if you dont have shoulder

they op as hell for dungeons

i run boots bracers on bosses in tyrannical more often then not though

[strange python]

eh

boots were my last leggo for sin :

felt bad

[naive cypress]

Any idea for how to handle tanking with Guardian druid on Vari mythic without having a disc priest?

Bear discord is useless

[steep obsidian]

rofl 😛

i hear he can combo pretty hard but sorry dont have bear 😦

[strange python]

@naive cypress try warrior discord in prot section

they are pretty active and will surely help you

[naive cypress]

Ok, will try that

Ty man

[strange python]

sent you link on PW

[strange python]

here we go

seat

7 deaths

18 deaths

not even half way through

[dense yarrow]

lol xD 22 deaths

full screened

[strange python]

yeah

blizzard has had enough of these clowns

[pastel crystal]

lol blizzard is a joke

MDI is a joke

[strange python]

NA mdi especially

eu had remakes

[pastel crystal]

true

[strange python]

na had fiesta

well, still have

26

can we get to 50

[dense yarrow]

well isnt Mythic dungeons > Raids in terms of people playing?

[strange python]

Pog

[pastel crystal]

every single one of those dudes raids

they are forced to raid

u cant do high keys if u dont raid

[dense yarrow]

27 damn, I think we are getting close to 50

[strange python]

holy shit

this will be a long living meme if they hit 50 deaths

[dense yarrow]

yeah but i mean overall more people do mythics (high or not) than raid (hc and mythic)

[strange python]

32

[dense yarrow]

xDDDDDDD

omfg

[strange python]

[pastel crystal]

oh well ya

[strange python]

THEY DIDNT EVEN KILL 1ST BOSS

[pastel crystal]

wish m+ was an alternative end game

but its not

[dense yarrow]

maybe soon blizz will enable that as it becomes more and more popular, but that would mean alot less raids

tbh if i was Stupid mistakes I would just go for a really high death count at this point xD

[pastel crystal]

they should just quit like sinking ship

[dense yarrow]

xD

[strange python]

all we need right now

[dense yarrow]

38 omg

[strange python]

is someone from SM ragequit

and make them play as 4

perfect

[pastel crystal]

why dont they just forfeit

[dense yarrow]

🤦

[strange python]

40

[dense yarrow]

10 more plox

and its 2 - 0 as well, rip

[pastel crystal]

has anyone talked about ppl losing due to bad procs?

like no mage bracer procs

shit dps

lose etc

or is that even a thing

[dense yarrow]

Hmm idek

[pastel crystal]

i cant imagine losing all that because I didnt get a bracer proc

some of these are so close

seconds

[dense yarrow]

47 boys

[marble hemlock]

50

and havent even killed a boss yet

wtf

[dense yarrow]

🔥

Are they even allowed to forfeit?

imagine they were in a map where they wouldnt be able to repair xD

[strange python]

ayyy

51

[dense yarrow]

55 :DDD

[drowsy heath]

55

[zealous dew]

dat seat

[drowsy heath]

They arednt kidding with that name

[civic palm]

Trying their best to set a STRONG WR in death.

[marble hemlock]

nah

you need to play the full game

[drowsy heath]

55 death before first boss

[marble hemlock]

in order to receive your prizemone

[strange python]

they are trolling

at this point

[marble hemlock]

thats why the team earlier played with 4ppl

after their lock ditched them

[pastel crystal]

cant believe blizz made them play with 4 ppl

this is why MDI will never be a thing

[drowsy heath]

lIts already a thing

[pastel crystal]

its a meme

[marble hemlock]

twice

[strange python]

its a new thing still

it'll get only better

[steep obsidian]

its pretty popular

[dense yarrow]

yeah they are already designing dungeons with M+ in mind so... it will only improve

[steep obsidian]

and easier to watch then arenas

[strange python]

60 btw

[pastel crystal]

32k viewers

[strange python]

i hope thjey get to 100

[dense yarrow]

more people can identify with M+ than arenas

[pastel crystal]

guess thats ok

agree

[violet elm]

Whats the memest, most out of the ordinary horde race, i wanna rerace as soon as belf nerf swoops in and cant figure out what i want

[drowsy heath]

Undead

[dense yarrow]

Zandalari Trolls as soon as they are available

[strange python]

undead is gucci

[drowsy heath]

Tauren is probably the wierdest

[violet elm]

Unfortunately cant be a tauren rogue

Or i would be

[strange python]

u cant be tauren rogue

[dense yarrow]

xD

[strange python]

imagine that big cow

sneaking in the shadows

[drowsy heath]

Best meme

[violet elm]

Im thinking either female troll

[drowsy heath]

Troll is probably the memest

Trolls are still big

[dense yarrow]

Zandalari TROLLSSS ! 😄

[violet elm]

Female troll or mby nightborne

[strange python]

just go female undead

[dense yarrow]

female undead are sweet

[strange python]

sexy

[violet elm]

Yeah but pb is transmog is obsolete

[dense yarrow]

not nightbourne, worst race -.-

[violet elm]

Thin as a sticc c

[dense yarrow]

omg they killed 1st boss ;D

[strange python]

dont worry

it gets only harder from now on

have faith in them

[drowsy heath]

Imagine if they came backl

[strange python]

it'd require full team ddos

[dense yarrow]

if they win.... omfg

but its impossible

[drowsy heath]

The monotone dude makes my ears bleed

[strange python]

63

progress

i really hope

[dense yarrow]

100? 😄

[strange python]

they show the other team after they PC finish

i really do

[dense yarrow]

xD

73, damn

[slate tulip]

vari mythic pb dmg - 3.7 mln #1

[mystic osprey]

Is there a BFA beta thread?

[spare cloud]

what kind of thread?

[dire spoke]

there are official blizzard posts

in their feedback community

[mystic osprey]

Channel*

[dire spoke]

oh :p

[mystic osprey]

Cool. Thanks.

[spare cloud]

Yeah right

[civic palm]

📆

[spare cloud]

Nice snitch

[civic palm]

:3

[spare cloud]

[civic palm]

I wouldn't have said anything if what you did wasn't so heinous.

[spare cloud]

Snitches get stitches

[civic palm]

https://giphy.com/gifs/ralph-halloween-spooky-3o6nUPWdswS7gji1na

Hmmm, that does play all too well, hmmm.

[vapid moth]

Fuck tomb

[dire spoke]

if you don't play subt you don't need tomb

[little hinge]

Is it normal to feel pretty anemic on energy with Ass? Other specs I feel like I'm always having to spam abilities, but Ass it's like I cast a single ability and then wait around until I have more energy to continue the rotation.

[dire spoke]

yes

[spare cloud]

No

[little hinge]

🤔

[civic palm]

Yes.

We're not Enhancement Shaman.

[spare cloud]

No

[civic palm]

or Warriors.

[little hinge]

I have the Shadowblade ring, so I'm running Vigor and Strategem

[spare cloud]

You just play ring boots and you're good

ring boots alacrity

[civic palm]

Yaknow this is the kind of information that gets people muted > _>

[spare cloud]

End my suffering

[civic palm]

hahaha

[spare cloud]

No, I'm serious though

it highly depends on the situation and the build you play

[civic palm]

Entirely.

Whether you have T21 pieces.

of mobs

etc.

[little hinge]

No tier, Single target. Shadowblade ring and Greenskin wrist.

[safe matrix]

yikes

[spare cloud]

then yeah

[civic palm]

The tier grants a lot of regen.

[spare cloud]

you're fucked on energy reg

pretty much

[civic palm]

Welcome to BFA, haha.

[dire spoke]

[civic palm]

Changed you... how?

[spare cloud]

changed his name to "Zempai [Giggle changed me]"

[supple hearth]

How did I change zempai

[quasi spindle]

beta assas talent build?

[dire spoke]

@supple hearth I feel disqualified helping people without being toxic after my mute

[shrewd night]

Wait hold up

Youve been muted?

[civic palm]

The things I miss =\

A SLAP ON THE WRIST, LOCK HIM UP!!

[shrewd night]

So Im the only gudboye left

Gotchu

[civic palm]

PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT

[void pecan]

Hmmmm

[civic palm]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[spare cloud]

@supple hearth send me your paypal and an amount for a xaethron ban

[civic palm]

Ditto.

:3

[shrewd night]

^

Will split the cost

[dire spoke]

Giggle doesn't like me anymore, that changed me the most

[shrewd night]

[spare cloud]

giggle never liked me*

[dire spoke]

[vapid moth]

making up lies to avoid joining your guilds timewalking raid

[void pecan]

Why not just tell them you don't want to...?

[dire spoke]

how not to be a trial

[vapid moth]

Cause I cannot currently foresee the effects

[shrewd night]

[civic palm]

Just fucking IRL them.

[shrewd night]

If a guild is making timewalking raids something you HAVE to attend, its better to just call it quits tbh

[civic palm]

Got groceries to get, can't atm.

I've put this off for three days, people ain't happy!!

[vapid moth]

It isn’t timewalking they’re making a have to. It’s the raiding time

[shrewd night]

Whats the difference

[civic palm]

Gotta pick my cat up from the groomers.

[vapid moth]

Timewalking coulda been done off raid time 🤔

[civic palm]

BRB

[shrewd night]

Read what Im saying and dont respond with banjo shit tho

[dire spoke]

taking raiding time seriously after 6 month into content

[shrewd night]

If timewalking is something you have to attend, call it quits -> I dont have to go, but I have to go tho

[dire spoke]

why don't you just leave xaeth

[supple hearth]

I like you zempai.

[vapid moth]

Reasons that don't really make sense

[civic palm]

Need to tune my Banjo, BRB.

[dire spoke]

I like you too

[supple hearth]

😊

[void pecan]

https://giphy.com/gifs/shipping-now-kiss-adventure-time-ljssLLBmv6xrO

[civic palm]

👏

[supple hearth]

Me on the right

[shrewd night]

Gugglebash confirmed ginger?

[supple hearth]

Trying my hardest not to give tongue

I have black hair

[spare cloud]

answer my question pls

[civic palm]

_>

[vapid moth]

i have black eyes

[void pecan]

Should get more sleep then.

Silly guy.

[shrewd night]

Thats uh

Racist

[vapid moth]

in all seriousness though my eyes really are black

not a hint of lightness anywhere in that iris

[spare cloud]

[shrewd night]

You might want to see a specialist.

[dire spoke]

it all makes sense now https://giphy.com/gifs/cbc-comedy-what-3o7btPCcdNniyf0ArS

[vapid moth]

specialist cant fix what appears naturally

[void pecan]

Tell that to plastic surgeons

[spare cloud]

So illnesses/deformations don't appear naturally

how do they appear?

Think 3 times before you say something

[civic palm]

We're up to three times now?

[spare cloud]

It was 9 times for xaethron actually.

[vapid moth]

so now im being told what is wrong with my body?

[spare cloud]

[vapid moth]

like i dont see a physician yearly like a normal fucking person?

[shrewd night]

Let me google MD this shit right quick

[civic palm]

webMD, come on.

[void pecan]

Turns out

it's cancer.

😦

[vapid moth]

o no

not again

[spare cloud]

did something happen to you as a child?

You can tell us, we won't make fun of you

[vapid moth]

coming from Toph

[wise frigate]

Yeah, he was born shudders

[civic palm]

https://giphy.com/gifs/r0qPYHGsFAM9y

[shrewd night]

I dont talk to nonames 💪 ❤

[spare cloud]

care to elaborate?

[lone junco]

[spare cloud]

oh wait

you can't

[shrewd night]

bulli

[vapid moth]

yawn

[lone junco]

Watch them say "no tier" but bring back archi style trinkets. Game changers that you need to drop to process. @gusty kestrel

[vapid moth]

archi trinkets?

[lone junco]

Argus was Prob easy to balance. But so very lame.

[spare cloud]

archi trinkets?

[wise frigate]

Class trinkets.

I mean archi trinkets?

[lone junco]

Hpal trinket was like 100% bonus to flash after a shock.

Yeah. Combat was like 96% to Evisc right?

[spare cloud]

Yes

was insane for leveling

outlaw did like 700k dps on level 102

and stuff like that

[lone junco]

Mark. Rt.

Yeah.

[spare cloud]

guess they are already preparing for leveling in the expansion after bfa 🤷

thinking in the long run

[lone junco]

Anyway. Tier is gone. But those things will float back around.

[spare cloud]

inb4

items get ability slots

and you get bonus abilities

from items

[civic palm]

So long you are not locked into 4 pieces of gear for 6 months people will be happy.

[void pecan]

"insert gem to get xx ability upgrade"

[spare cloud]

like a new talent system

[lone junco]

Gems. With artifact bonuses.

[shrewd night]

remove tier from game
rename tier to azerite gear
implement azerite gear

TADAH

[civic palm]

There are sets still but I've only seem them during leveling.

[void pecan]

Diablo dev's btw.

[lone junco]

I like witch doctor pet build. I should have a demo alt.

[civic palm]

The difference between Azerite Gear and Tier is that you still have options as to what the set is good at doing.

[lone junco]

Implosin was doing like 8k dps

[civic palm]

With tier you had to battle for other sockets due to your stats shifting along with different tier setups.

[lone junco]

One full defensive set. One dps set.

[civic palm]

I can see an AoE and ST set being made as well.

Considering respecing the AA bonuses is going to come at a cost.

[lone junco]

The heal proc is like 10-25% hps per tick.

[civic palm]

and probably won't be able to be done in field.

[lone junco]

I really need to pick a toon soon. Druid will be a nightmare to gear.

At least dh is like crit+. And go.

Between sin/outlaw/sub. Could prob share one prydaz set.

Since shoulders are dead we will all need crit.

[civic palm]

Yarp.

and the MA talent ain't great.

[lone junco]

I tried it. And it ended already.

It is so short. Env mut env. That's prob it.

And gl making that be effective.

At 50%. I'd like 8 sec.

[civic palm]

It's good for like, your opener, that's it.

garrote > mut > health RUP

ok done

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[lone junco]

Or. Mut env mut.

[civic palm]

Yeah

[lone junco]

Great.

Even then you need vendetta.

So youre cold popping it

Bleh.

[civic palm]

noty

Popping Vendetta in Stealth is cancerous.

Vendetta.................................. OK LET'S GO

[empty bison]

Anyone know stat weights by chance

[void pecan]

[lone junco]

Spec? Orange?

[civic palm]

Yeah you can find them at Raidbots.com

[empty bison]

thx bb

[lone junco]

The worst thing about playing rogue. Is going back to hpal and seeing how primitive their tools are.

[civic palm]

Yeah

[lone junco]

"Can't Model a healer".

Bullshit.

[dire spoke]

what are we discussing

[lone junco]

Hpal spreadsheet is Stone Age compared to raidbots.

[dire spoke]

well herodamage is on its way there

I'll give you that

[lone junco]

I don't want to manually key in all my upgrades every time I get a new piece. Damn thing is silly.

[vapid moth]

ive been so bored lately

what is there to do

[civic palm]

My favorite healer thing is that fucking addon that will show you what stat is "more important" at any one time.

[lone junco]

Pawn?

[civic palm]

WA script as well.

Nah in-game thing.

Will show "live weights".

You are a shaman and your target is low health, Mastery/Crit is good here.

No shit.

[dire spoke]

🤦🏻

[civic palm]

So is Haste and Vers. so they won't fucking die.

[lone junco]

@dire spoke tbh. I was just stressing over bfa choice. I will go crazy trying to gear multiple azurite sets for Druid. Too many specs and roles. Will kill me to be mediocre on all of them.

[dire spoke]

well I'm a bit worried about being unlucky aswell

considering having Zempaiholder second rogue

_>

[safe matrix]

why not Zempaitwo

[dire spoke]

Zempoo

[civic palm]

Zempai, Zempie, Zempi

and Zempoo, haha.

[safe matrix]

Zempie

Zempay

[civic palm]

Zempee?

[dire spoke]

My old guild named me Zembye

also they started reclearing again, 30 wipes on imonar today

I feel a bit bad

on the other hand, I got ~140k every week now and killed aggr

so that distracts me from feeling bad

[civic palm]

:3

[safe matrix]

How about

Zembae

[dire spoke]

Zimbabwe

[civic palm]

Zembaebwei

[supple hearth]

Sempai Zempai 😍

[dire spoke]

Wiggle Wiggle Giggle 😏

[wise frigate]

I ship it.

[lone junco]

Shit. EP is 4 sec.

[civic palm]

YA O_O

[lone junco]

its a really shitty rotation as far as uptime. you pretty much just mut env garrote mut rupture. mut env.

[wise frigate]

Oh are we doing cute names your guild calls you?

[lone junco]

2p4p was pinnacle of smooth

[wise frigate]

My current guild calls me "that fucking Jew"

[lone junco]

shalom

[wise frigate]

L'chaim

[civic palm]

I do think that people are gonna have to come to terms with things being a bit of a reset. Some people are gonna get hit harder than others =\

[lone junco]

i dunno. the VR is really shit return

I didnt realize it was just mut returns, not just tick on bleeds. so cleave condition = 0

[trail heron]

it is done. outlulz swords at 75, so time to start as Sin. actually managed to save a lovely 6 bill AP token for it :3

[civic palm]

Yeah VR is just MUT, Blindside probably needs to be put on it.

[lone junco]

Method NA just fucking rolled cathedral last boss with 99%

same thing happened to limit

Is this normal?

[sand whale]

most likely when they try to aoe nuke the packs that run up the stairs at the end

done it before but yeah not very reliable unless it's clean

[lone junco]

@marble hemlock any of those teams in the finals use a rogue?

[civic palm]

Yeah the 99% seems to happen a lot in Cath.

[remote oak]

FoK on how many targets?

[steep obsidian]

2

guide is up top

[civic palm]

Seems like good damage O _O

[lone junco]

yeah, I got the low version of that. seemed ok

the Sandstorm Azerite however was a joke.

It spawns as a fixed point where you were when it procced and just stays there for like 10 sec.

could have been a buff that moved with you.

but nah. just hung out, way back there, when I BTE it popped where i was standing.

[safe matrix]

Just get a weakaura to /s that it procced

And get the tank to stay there

[steep obsidian]

yeah that trinket is strong

do that quest last and pray for a titanforge /nod

or warfroge or wahtever quests can do

[civic palm]

That trinket did more than PBOMB > _>

barf

over the course of a dungeon

[spice haven]

Sin's feeling good on Beta!!

[civic palm]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[spice haven]

assuming we'd still take MP over EP?

[covert ibex]

That's good is poison bomb actually fixed and not a huge dps swing?

[spice haven]

PB is somewhat reliant now

[covert ibex]

Pb just needs taken out of the game

[spice haven]

I mean, sure you run into some crappy non-crit chains, but PB being almost reliable, and the extra energy refund feels great

it feels ok now, and it's only going to get better as you get geared

[true ingot]

It being reliable is at the cost of it being worth having until they tune it properly.

[civic palm]

It feels fine for the gear you have.

and PBOMB damage atm is so low that I am not sure if it will be worth taking in any situation.

[spice haven]

Right, it feels fine for what we have

[true ingot]

Hidden blades outperforms it on ST.

[spice haven]

ESP that fact that there's a ton of other melee out there that feel like dogshit

[covert ibex]

Could be worse I guess could be a fury warrior lol

[spice haven]

I'm not caring that much for the damage tuning, but the fact that PBOMB is somewhat reliable for M+ trash and stuff just "feels" good to me

[true ingot]

Maybe there's an argument to be made for PBomb to become good once we actually get some mastery.

[spice haven]

tuning will come and we'll see from there

[covert ibex]

Hopefully pb is an ability that will be so terrible it won't even be an option period

[true ingot]

Why would you want that? Then it's just a dead talent and we have no "ST" option period??

[spice haven]

yeaaaa that's not a good mentality to have

lol

[covert ibex]

Lol I'm fine with that better than praying for rng

[spice haven]

you should WANT your talent rows to have options

[true ingot]

You'd rather essentially have no 100 talent than have to pray for fairly consistent rng.

:thonking:

[spice haven]

16%-20% chance on finishers is pretty damn good

[covert ibex]

What's wrong with having regular rotation minus rng you aren't doing anything special to have pb proc

Yes

[spice haven]

if you want 0 rng in your rotation, boomie says hello

[true ingot]

Like. Don't get me wrong. I'd prefer if PB was replaced with something cool for ST but it's what we're stuck with so we should want it to be good.

[covert ibex]

Lol why that makes no sense

Just make our core rotation good

Not the most rng part of the class good

[true ingot]

...???

[hollow haven]

Play sub

[spice haven]

I've said since I saw PBOMB that it should have a higher proc rate and way less damage

[hollow haven]

No rng

[spice haven]

and that's what they're doing

[true ingot]

Tuning the class is entirely different to "Our one ST option on this row is really underwhelming. It could use a touch-up in the tuning pass".

[spice haven]

instead of feeling like a god when it procs 2-3 times and shit w/out it

[true ingot]

If you're so against PB then feel free to never choose a 100 talent on live for ST fights I guess??

[covert ibex]

PB shouldn't be rng anyways it should be for aoe and cost CB points

[true ingot]

Why? Crimson Tempest already fills that niche.

[covert ibex]

For poison

[true ingot]

You.. do realise that the mastery scales with both bleeds and poisons now. Right?

[covert ibex]

Rework it or something

Yes

[spice haven]

I do wish CT was baseline tho 😦

[covert ibex]

And haste works on both

[true ingot]

So you want two takes on the exact same ability.

On the same talent row.

Arguing with you is frying my brain.

[covert ibex]

It shouldn't be a 100 talent

[true ingot]

So where would you put it on the tree that makes sense?

[spice haven]

wait, who are you talking to? I'm not arguing w/ anyone

I just missed CT since we lost it

[true ingot]

Because no matter WHERE you put it. Having both CT and PB(As an aoe finisher) in the same tree would make zero sense.

Guntrakk, Zazhuu.

[spice haven]

I'm not saying make PB cost CP's

[true ingot]

Guntrakk is.

[spice haven]

all I was saying is that sin feels great on beta

[true ingot]

He's saying to literally make it CT 2.0

[spice haven]

and the change haters came outta the woodwork

[true ingot]

Which is like ???? Do you even read what you type man

[covert ibex]

Lol calm down I'll explain

[true ingot]

Feel free.

[covert ibex]

So exsang and toxic blade are on same row right tb increases nature damage it would still be a benefit if poison bomb instead of a puddle was an additional poison that splashed everything within a radius the more cb points the longer/stronger duration

[viscid helm]

That makes no sense, why would they implement 2 aoe finishers

Already got CT

[spice haven]

let him finish

[true ingot]

That's what i've been saying, Flowi. :L

But let him finish I guess.

[covert ibex]

Crimson tempest should just be baseline it's pretty much an aoe rupture

[viscid helm]

Rofl now its even more dumb

Are u serious

[true ingot]

...

By the way, Guntrakk. You.. realise TB already increases PB damage right

[covert ibex]

You guys are so easy to piss off lol

[viscid helm]

Why the fuck would u have 2 aoe finishers

[covert ibex]

You wouldn't

[viscid helm]

One would BE a dead spell

[covert ibex]

They actually changed Tb though

Think it only works on weapon poison now

[true ingot]

No...

[viscid helm]

Wrong

Again

[true ingot]

It's all nature damage.

[covert ibex]

Unless pb counts

[viscid helm]

Please stop

[true ingot]

.. PB is nature damage. Of course it counts.

Guntrakk are you trolling? Please tell me you're trolling.

[covert ibex]

Check new change botes

[spice haven]

I thought it did say in the tooltip that it's wep poisons

[covert ibex]

For beta think I saw it somewhere

[spice haven]

lemme check beta RQ

[covert ibex]

Yeahhh

[stark heart]

you are mixing TB with MP

[true ingot]

Nope. I'm looking at it right now.

Still says nature damage

[viscid helm]

U are clueless

Stop

[spice haven]

yo stop being a toxic ass, we're just having a convo here

[covert ibex]

Lol ok

[spice haven]

something did get changed to say only wep poisons, I can't remember if it's TB or MP

[stark heart]

MP

[true ingot]

MP is weapon poisons.

[stark heart]

I just told you

[spice haven]

no reason to be an ass about it tho

[viscid helm]

[stark heart]

MP change is merely a tooltip change anyway

that's how it works on live

[spice haven]

correct, but the question was asked if that was changed to be on TB or not, I get it that someone already said it was MP but I'd still like to double check for my own sanity

[nova snow]

!relics

[chrome tusk]

List of relics for each spec: http://tc.ravenholdt.net/

gray_hounds relic sheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vmVwWWnNhrbzi0S_qK6emjFquyUexbTmOEov7vkRjjg/edit#gid=0

[covert ibex]

People get so salty over something stupid anyways

They just love the rng of pb

[viscid helm]

Yeh i agree, what u said was stupid

[frozen pecan]

you all dumb

[viscid helm]

@gusty kestrel

[covert ibex]

But yeah great idea pb does need a buff dmg is low on beta lets make it our top 3 damage again

[true ingot]

Nobody is saying top 3.

[spice haven]

I just want it to be consistent, even if it's lower damage

consistancy for M+ aoe is my goal

[covert ibex]

Exactly remove the talent

[jolly heart]

Reading sin Discord like

[covert ibex]

I've said that shit the whole time

[true ingot]

No. What you've been saying is to turn it into CT 2.0

[covert ibex]

I'd rather not have any 100 talent then use PB is what I was saying

[civic palm]

Oh God that trinket is still so gooood -

[true ingot]

Which is a ridiculous way to think.

[civic palm]

Disregard the HOLYSTORRRRRM

[covert ibex]

Why it's an aoe row?

[stark heart]

zap trinket is busted

[covert ibex]

Shouldmt be tier 100 anyways

Should be able to take exsang and Tb imo

[true ingot]

You've still not said where you'd put it in this mystical fairy land of your's.

[civic palm]

Dispatch also doing 👌 DMG

[true ingot]

Take both Exsang and TB.

My guy. Pls.

[covert ibex]

I'd remove pb or use it as a place holder

A dead talent

[frozen pecan]

dead class

[covert ibex]

What's wrong with taking both?

Makes the spec harder to play more fun?

[civic palm]

PBOMB is effectively the passive talent that has no interplay, it being low damage is fine.

[stark heart]

Dispatch is quite undertuned now imo

[civic palm]

It's not good if the damage is too good.

[true ingot]

Nothing is inherently wrong with it. It'd be fantastic. But let's be real. Blizzard would -never- give us that power.

[stark heart]

sorry Blindside

[covert ibex]

I'm fine if its lower than a trinket but skragg thinks it needs buffed

[civic palm]

Yeah Dispatch could use some work IT'S DISPATCH but it's decent now.

[stark heart]

Dispatch is Outlaw finisher

[safe matrix]

well they say blindside is 20/20

actually that ones a bit too much of a stretch on hindsight >.<

[civic palm]

Quite.

[viscid helm]

[safe matrix]

it would work better in voice

but you know

hindsight and all that jazz

[spice haven]

He was too blindsight to realize it wouldn't work via text

[steep obsidian]

blind should give a dps buff to your next blindside imo

rp matters

[stark heart]

Can use blindside on blinded target regardless of HP

[short flint]

Anyone here run 20+ and have a decent understanding of poison knives relics i could get some advice from?

[steep obsidian]

what do you need to know?

its a good trait for m+ trash worthless for single target

[short flint]

its the rotation with it still fan/rupture swapping targets or do you need to double rupture envenom for the 4p

also atm im running 3x masteralc, 2x masterass, 1x poisen knives.. do you think that is a good balance for single/aoe for m+

[supple hearth]

2x master ass...

Why

[short flint]

its just how the relics worked out

[supple hearth]

I'd get 3 master asassination or get rid of that 2nd one

I run poison knives relics and it's not that great. I'd prefer single Target relics

[short flint]

out of curiosity why does 2 scale so bad.. is the timing just not good with gcds

[viscid helm]

I'd just play sub

[supple hearth]

Yes the timing of it makes it a dps loss

[viscid helm]

🤷

[short flint]

i generally out dps sub rogues since we dont pull half the dungeon at once

[fiery nest]

lol

[strange python]

yeah with shitty tanks i pref playing sin

nothing better as sub as long extended 2-3 mob trash packs :>>

[stark heart]

@supple hearth 2 MA is 👌

if you play proper build

[shrewd night]

Wasnt there some shit about 2MA being gucci if you didnt use shoulders?

[viscid helm]

U want 3x ma for alacrity

Idk what u guys are on about

[supple mesa]

so how does the gcd thing make sin rogue feel?

Haven't had time to mess with it yet, just curious

[viscid helm]

What gcd thing

[supple mesa]

In bfa, the gcd changed

changes*

[viscid helm]

Were in #assassination still right?

[strange python]

doesnt affect sin much\

[vivid bone]

yep Flowi

[viscid helm]

Good

Just making sure

[vivid bone]

Understandable

[steep obsidian]

every 2 mins and at the start of the pull you say "fuck this change"

but apart from that you dont really notice it much

[vivid bone]

It's mostly fucked for classes that have a lot of 1min/2min cd's to boost their dps right

[steep obsidian]

until you get used to it you mash the button and it doesn't go off and sometimes forget to use it because of that

[vivid bone]

I heard warriors were especially pissed

[shrewd night]

They got no reason to be as their durations were increased to compensate

[steep obsidian]

go watch the preach rant in offtopic in that vod

it sums up how most of us feel

[shrewd night]

They're just salty because they can be

[vivid bone]

Doesn't sum up how I feel though Sabod 😛

Preach is nice and salty

[steep obsidian]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[vivid bone]

Embrace change, adapt and move on 😉

[steep obsidian]

sure

but when a change is shit

i can call the change shit

[shrewd night]

Considering how banjo Preach is 99% of the time he is definitely not the guy Id pick to be the spokesman about this shit hah

[steep obsidian]

thats called feedback

[vivid bone]

lol

[steep obsidian]

yeah he is a dick but he gets it right sometimes

its just not as much fun

[viscid helm]

Preach doesnt understand the mechanics behind most of the classes just like finalboss

[steep obsidian]

heh

[vivid bone]

Agreed Flowi

[viscid helm]

Wouldnt pay to much attention

[shrewd night]

Stop talking out your ass flowi

[steep obsidian]

was more talking about the on pull setup

its crap on some classes

you literally spend like 5 seconds buffing your shit before you attack anything

[vivid bone]

I still don't see the issue

[shrewd night]

I miss giving druids shit for not buffing motw

[viscid helm]

5s?

[steep obsidian]

flowi is now a bfa fan and loves the class design

[viscid helm]

Its 1-3s for p much all classes

Unless u talk about this stupid warrior gif

[vivid bone]

Yeah because liking one thing makes you an instant lover of everything

[viscid helm]

I dont like the gcd change

[steep obsidian]

he doesn't like ithejust calling me out on hyberbole

[vivid bone]

Well, like it or not, better start getting used to it :p

[midnight sail]

There a good bfa talent build sim going? Is blindside worth it vs mp?

[viscid helm]

People just make it out to be bigger than it is

Blindside is a dps loss vs mutilate

[stark heart]

GCD change does nothing for Assa rogue

[strange python]

the warrior example is weak

because it'll change soon

avatar is getting removed for fury (and possibly arms)

[steep obsidian]

i already said that the gcd change isnt that bad for sin rogue

it is more annoying on mage

[stark heart]

it's really nothing there as well

[steep obsidian]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[stark heart]

waiting 1 GCD once in 3 minutes

what a tragedy

[strange python]

its more about that you have to wait few gcds every few minutes

it feels awkward

[viscid helm]

Is vendetta 3min?

[stark heart]

they were talking about mage

IV is 3 mins

[viscid helm]

Ohh

[shrewd night]

Thats like complaining about the downtime you have for taking a shit every two days

[steep obsidian]

i specifically mentioned

[stark heart]

Combustion is reverted

[steep obsidian]

the pull setup

[strange python]

oh

[stark heart]

so like

[strange python]

did they revert it for fire?

[stark heart]

yes

[strange python]

i missed it

[steep obsidian]

doesnt feel fun

[shrewd night]

Taking a shit rarely is 'fun'

[steep obsidian]

lol you are just trying to bait

[stark heart]

how does pull change for frost?

compared to live

[vivid bone]

I thought you were just trying to bait Sabod 😛

[stark heart]

still only change is IV

[steep obsidian]

and racial

[stark heart]

not being belf in 2k18

smh

[strange python]

@stark heart https://clips.twitch.tv/OnerousEphemeralCheeseWow

this is how it changes for frost

[stark heart]

I don't care about Preach view

I played frost on beta

[strange python]

well hes right

mostly

[stark heart]

during raid testing as well

it was totally fine

[shrewd night]

Im not trying to bait, having to spend 1 gcd each three minutes

God the sky must be falling amirite

[viscid helm]

But its preach?

Who are u @stark heart

?

[stark heart]

noname

[viscid helm]

[strange python]

spending even 1gcd every 3min is bad

just like the entire gcd change

[gaunt moat]

....

[strange python]

period lol

[shrewd night]

[vivid bone]

Hi Notter!

[shrewd night]

Time to cancel your sub then I guess?

[strange python]

lol

[stark heart]

if 1 gcd every 3 minutes hurts you then I guess we can only agree to disagree

[strange python]

i like that idea

[vivid bone]

It's still happening though

[viscid helm]

Its good thing u dont play sub then

[strange python]

if you're gonna try to convince me that gcd change isnt big deal and its fine

[shrewd night]

Might have to after tuning, who knows

[strange python]

ofc im gonna disagree

[safe matrix]

FeelsBadMan no one ever considers the subby bois

But there are specs that got cucked harder than sub did

[stark heart]

if you can't be reasoned with then I ain't gonna try to convince you thanks

[steep obsidian]

my druid healer friend died a few times in bfa dungeons the other day because he so used to bearform not being on the gcd its changes we will get used to but imo making reactive snap decisions is more skillful

[vivid bone]

and they will get compensated I'm sure

[steep obsidian]

it not only dps rotations that it effects

[strange python]

thank you

[stark heart]

dunno why they put SoD on GCD

not like you can't adapt to it but it feels weird

[viscid helm]

Should put shd

On gcd

[safe matrix]

No

NO

[stark heart]

[strange python]

the same reason they put leap or charge for warriors

no reason

[stark heart]

leap is off

[strange python]

but it was on

[stark heart]

key word "was"

[strange python]

untill community shit on them for that

also things like bloodbath being on gcd when obviously every warrior had it on macro with battlecry

#reasonable

[stark heart]

because macroing abilities is cool right

[vivid bone]

oh so everyone had it on macro, so that's why you can't change it... all those poor macros

[shrewd night]

So now people have to make the decision to lose 1 second uptime or using said uptime to deeps

Decisions isnt fun

[steep obsidian]

ergh

[strange python]

when you have 4 offensive cooldowns to burn

[vivid bone]

Having more time to make decisions is bad? I think it makes the game better for everyone tbh 😃

[strange python]

losing 1 second on each cooldown isnt fun

indeed

[shrewd night]

Gasp

[safe matrix]

You also lose interactions between abilities with the gcd