the gap is still so small between races for rogue specs that it doesn't matter does it?
#assassination
young dagger
chrome tuskBOT
List of trinkets for each spec: http://tc.ravenholdt.net/
safe matrix
^^^^ its the same link
young dagger
awesome because i dont really wanna go blood elf but they are the clear best on hero damage for horde. horde has enough blood elves
safe matrix
well for BfA racials are getting changed
people go BE for utility
the AoE silence is god tier
young dagger
and that Aoe silence is gone now so im not concerned about it lol
safe matrix
ye
if you have your char in mind for BfA
just go for aesthetics
its basically impossible to predict dps
young dagger
dope. i wanted to go either undead or nightborn. undead is the classic. nightborn has my NE animations and NE is my favorite race of all time but friend wants to go horde so gg lol. either way kinda tired of seeing all the blood elves so glad to know its not a must have now. more so with that big nerf to racials
nightborn also have that dope mailbox and thats great for my gold farmin ass
safe matrix
I mean you can somewhat predict utility will be good
but its impossible to accurately predict anything rn
primal tangle
civic palm
Probably.
I think most people that are being reasonably skeptical will give it a month like usual.
marble hemlock
like any new expansion it will attract a lot of people who are not playing right now, the people who are still playing will more than likely keep playing too, so its really just about player retention after the first honeymoon-like month
and how that will turn out is anyones guess at this point
civic palm
Yeah that is why I was gonna ask whether he meant that people would not play due to burnout, or seeing the changes, etc.
marble hemlock
but people who have bothered to keep playing during all of legion are the least likely to drop bfa just because it looks shit, because legion was the same
civic palm
I will say that the first month of Legion showed most of its' problems.
marble hemlock
thats not true though
civic palm
It didn't show everything, but the AP grind and Legendaries were an obvious problem.
marble hemlock
first month of legion-alpha showed most of its problems
civic palm
Ehh, gotta wait for release and then some time for things to actually become problems.
Things can and will change before launch.
People saw the legendaries but there wasn't going to be large changes to that system as it was too close to their core design. The AP on the otherhand > _>
marble hemlock
well, looking at wod/legion alpha, the rampant negative-feedback threads on certain core-gameplay issues, and the lack of changes after that feedback makes me skeptical
civic palm
In regards to what other than legendaries and like... Demonology/Survival?
BM maybe having too few buttons was a concern IIRC.
Turns out people still can't play it with only having three fucking buttons.
marble hemlock
legendaries were a big concern, but in the way that you acquired them aswell as their impact on overall performance based on their initial tuning
took them what, 6 months?, to get the balancing somewhat right for half the classes?
the whole ap-grind with the original "infinite" traits was a big no-no for everyone who was remotely interested in progression
civic palm
Yeah the legendaries were the obvious problem, but they weren't going to be fundamentally changes, we got drop rate increases and more aggressive BLP but them being DPS related was the issue and that wasn't fucking going anywhere.
I don't think that the AP grind would have been an issue with things like NH Mythic weren't too so tightly around it.
marble hemlock
well, you see how EN turned out, which wasnt tuned around people grinding their traits out like they did
civic palm
Sure it's obvious that issues could (and did) come from it, but they could have just as easily not have had any issues.
EN was also the starter raid with a bad final boss > _>
marble hemlock
obviously ap grinding was a non-factor for a lot of people because they didnt care about cutting edge progression, but for those of us who did there was an obvious issue and blizzard (understandable) didnt give a fuck
civic palm
Wish it was another Highmaul, but... oh well.
Yeah the grind to 35 traits was... bad.
civic palm
Well it started there, anything after that was > _>"
It was clear that there was tuning around the average trait level for a raid.
Not getting that in BFA though > _>
marble hemlock
well, 35 was fine bcause you didnt need it for the content when you could get them
civic palm
So maybe we get another Highmaul.
marble hemlock
depends on when were supposed to be getting the last tier of azerite traits
marble hemlock
looked like t4 was just 5ilvl on the 3 pieces, no?
at least for the leveling chest
civic palm
That 5 item levels is tier 3 for now.
There's an empty space under it now but that UI is still incomplete.
Either way I can't see it being as impactful as legendaries were.
and much easier to acquire.
marble hemlock
think that described bfa right now pretty well
civic palm
Also there are probably no very interesting traits until raid to begin with.
marble hemlock
"theres an empty space under it"
civic palm
Well there was something there.
and that UI component being complete is completely unimportant.
marble hemlock
well
im just not a huge fan
of a release in 3months
when a bunch of classes still dont have all their talents
and noone has the faintest idea of what some of the raid-tier azerite traits are going to look like
seems like a rush-job again
gonna be a balancing shit-fest on live again
civic palm
Might. There's also just a chance that there is better internal testing.
marble hemlock
hahahahaha
civic palm
Though that's only a small amount of the testing that needs to be done.
marble hemlock
good one
marble hemlock
does blizz even have internal testers?
marble hemlock
makes sense, they probably died of old age halfway through mop which would explain a lot about wod/legion
marble hemlock
yeah right, destrolock/mm hunter were totally fine in highmaul :x
civic palm
Hey I didn't say that literally everything was fine.
If 95% of things are fine, things are fine... for the most part > _>
marble hemlock
thats only half the truth though
civic palm
BFA also looks so fucking simple that I can't imagine that there will be numbers issues early on.
I can only talk about the content I played.
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
Highmaul was good.
marble hemlock
regarding class balancing, if the 95% are better than the 5%, sure, nice job
if the 5% are better than the 95%, you fucked up
civic palm
Class Balance for Legion was very very good for a while, even though some of them were... not so fun to play.
civic palm
Encounters though > _>
marble hemlock
at least after ToV
civic palm
NH was hawt madness.
civic palm
Tomb was made by too many people, they've admitted to that failure.
marble hemlock
ToV in particular was pretty good actually
and even EN had some decently designed fights
civic palm
ToV is top-tier fuck the player content.
marble hemlock
ilgynoth may not have been everybodies cup of tea, but it was a good fight
so were drakes or cenarius
and ursoc was a nice patchwerk encounter
civic palm
Yeah and a good amount of the fights were different on Mythic, which is always nice.
marble hemlock
even renferal was not all that bad
civic palm
Though some people were enraged over Ilgynoth.
marble hemlock
its with tomb where they started dropping the ball
and went into this "if one player fucks up you get to wipe" frenzy
civic palm
There was some weird issue with management oversight in Tomb.
marble hemlock
i want old encounter design back
civic palm
12 soaking encounters, tons of failure states.
marble hemlock
where when one player fucks up, he dies, and enrage timers are tuned around people not fucking up too early into the fight
civic palm
I think that difficulty has to be saved for Mythic or something creative.
marble hemlock
and a few core-positions in each encounter that you can fill with your best players deliberately
civic palm
Like Mythic Eonar.
It's fucking... HARD to die there...
But if you died in the ship well...
G G
marble hemlock
i was more thinkign along the lines of SoO
people dying on nazgrim or malkorok too soon?
civic palm
Plenty of examples exist.
civic palm
Yep.
marble hemlock
that way you had some decent progression
civic palm
I do think that designing around enrages/berserks is fine so long everything isn't that.
marble hemlock
even though people died early on, you got to progress the entire fight
nowadays its more like "okay, somebody fucked up, lets wipe and start over"
and thats just not enjoyable, and fosters a very hostile raid-environment
civic palm
The same kinda things happens during Argus though, if you know the raid DPS and someone dies early, you're not killing before Enrage.
marble hemlock
yup
i mean, youre not hitting pre-gaze transitions anymore
so you might continue to keep progressing, but youre not going to kill the boss
which is fine
compared to something like KJ where it was impossible to comeback from one failed soak
civic palm
and you nope out then and there, no reason to continue, someone isn't turning into fucking Goku and killing Argus in an epic duel throughout the sky.
This only happens when there's an obvious threshold being crossed from just too many dead people.
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
marble hemlock
yeah, abilities need to be a lot more lethal imo
civic palm
KJ was nice as a FINAL boss... to the EXPANSION.
marble hemlock
feels like right now most abilities are tuned around you barely surviving them
i.e. getting hit by a blaze on aggramar
civic palm
But at the same time KJ didn't really feel like it matched his character at all.
marble hemlock
you survive that shit with like 200-400k hp
why not tune it so it instakills you?
marble hemlock
well
civic palm
I know that Mythic is originally designed around a core set of guilds.
and the item level that they would end up there with.
Whatever that might be.
marble hemlock
stuff like that either needs to overkill by a significant margin so you dont just start bringing people with passive mitigation that can survive it anyway
or you will have that legion-wide situation where you cannot progress on a boss one week, and suddenly it feels ultra-easy the next becuase of 2more ilvl and 2more traits
civic palm
I wanna say that it's not like that for most people.
marble hemlock
dunno, had plenty of bosses in legion that felt that way
civic palm
THAT is the actual reason.
civic palm
๐
marble hemlock
guess youre really just the invisible man and thats the only spot thats not covered in armour?
marble hemlock
maybe its a mask?
marble hemlock
i used to have the throw weapon on shift+6
civic palm
Max value.
marble hemlock
but im not allowed to flame keybinds
civic palm
What happened?
marble hemlock
i mean i still managed to vanish deathcoils in melee so i was doing fine, but yeah, ahd to change that once people saw the bind on screenshots ๐
marble hemlock
and a few hours ago i had to explain this https://gyazo.com/2e63a1cbcc0502d20b163d3922b0b67d
civic palm
Man WoW was stupid back in the day > _>
lone junco
those binds are just what popped in
marble hemlock
because someone finally noticed that i have mount bound to Q
lone junco
sstep on 1 is odd
civic palm
Gotta mount fast.
lone junco
i mount g
marble hemlock
well, q is a shitty keybind
civic palm
lone junco
q was my trinket for 15 yrs.
marble hemlock
cause you can only bind abilities on it that you dont want to move while strafing
lone junco
so its now my oh shit defensive
lone junco
naga
civic palm
Givem the
marble hemlock
because by pressing 1, you lose control of your movement
civic palm
Nah.
I have plenty of movement while hitting 1.
But I've also years of practice contorting like that > _>
marble hemlock
i mean i use my ringfinger or middlefinger to press 1, so it can only be something that i only use when im not moving anyway
i.e. shadowstep :3
civic palm
Doing actions while jumping == Elite
marble hemlock
x is most important keybind
civic palm
Useless default bind.
marble hemlock
had snd there for like 10years
lone junco
space is my tab target
civic palm
it's my "Racial Button".
lone junco
stealth Middle mouce. shift middle vanish
civic palm
That's right Stealth is MIDDLE MOUSE.
safe matrix
G vanish, shift G is shadowstep ๐
lone junco
bleh
marble hemlock
sounds like you vanish a lot when you dont want to
civic palm
Don't be a spaz ๐
marble hemlock
how do you stop the innuendo with a girl you used to sext with for like 3months?
marble hemlock
giggle instantly answering
supple hearth
You take her on a nice date to #off-topic
marble hemlock
yikes
manic vigil
civic palm
Degenerates.
marble hemlock
i only value assa-spec opinions
supple hearth
blue name
marble hemlock
and unless i @ all the assa rogues in offtopic, ill get plenty of pleb-subs/combats to reply ๐ฆ
safe matrix
check my tags giggle
civic palm
What a faker.
marble hemlock
but then youre playing demonhunter
lone junco
thinking about the mythic 3man islands
strange python
the bonus envenom damage on garroted targets azerite trait seems to scale pretty crazily
lone junco
rogue will be annoying. Id rather have an offspec tank
yeah. i heard it is pretty nasty
marble hemlock
just choose tank-azerite traits and be a rogue-tank? ๐ค
strange python
says 226 bonus damage... im critting for practically double old envenom damage
marble hemlock
refractiveshell+budget prydaz to the rescue
civic palm
Just don't level past 115.
sick jungle
should I envenom with ONLY 5 CP? or is 4 ok
civic palm
4+
safe matrix
the guide says 4+
marble hemlock
๐
sick jungle
Thanks!
lone junco
Nice. Haven't seen that combo at the top before.
marble hemlock
only thanks to insane off-pieces
lone junco
Phone is dumb. Is that like 38/195?
marble hemlock
i shouldnt have skipped raid this week though, had 985pk belt and 985 garothi cloak drops, those wouldve been quite huge boosts
lemme check
actually +6k dps with subterfuge, but i dont like subterfuge ๐ฆ
but yeah, around 16.5k mastery and 11k crit pre-eoc
lone junco
I'm ok with dumping bracers when the fight gets fast. And no one is dying.
marble hemlock
37.71/196%, so pretty good guess ๐
lone junco
Prob has really good pace.
marble hemlock
seems to be more consistent dps than other combos
lone junco
Just need the mastery.
marble hemlock
even if i dont have vendetta on pull and no vanish available, the dps doesnt really drop over a 3min fight
marble hemlock
never was a huge fan of exsang
lone junco
It's Tb.
lone junco
That row is highly irrelevant. It's the 98% ep that does the work.
But w/e. We stopped raiding in Feb. I'm done till prepatch I guess
marble hemlock
yeah im really only blasting m+ nowadays, not really focused on raid-parses anymore
progress is over, so theres no point in parsing well
im actually starting to fall in love with the non-shoulder singletarget setup, i used to hate it due to the lack of consistency during the opener
but it really doesnt seem to matter all that much
lone junco
Yeah. Shoulders are a curse.
marble hemlock
8mil opener with a bomb or two are nice, but you just lose out so much over the course of the fight
marble hemlock
and you have to keep vanish during bossfights, instead of using them on trash where its a lot more valuable
hehe, yeah
must feel really nice with 2 or even 3 BBs
lone junco
When high crit 3cp+ rupture is a gain. And 3+ env is a tiny loss
So you can play around your clips.
marble hemlock
hm, wouldve thought EP would be a bigger loss
still 2.401mil with EP instead of MP
civic palm
Me trying to get back to #off-topic https://i.imgur.com/UxGnzEy.gifv
marble hemlock
๐ฎ
supple hearth
Female copper running at him like 
civic palm
#assassination is lowkey a courtroom > _>
lone junco
Yeah. Ep pushes crit weight.
civic palm
I am ready for the 200 death Maw.
autumn bloom
@marble hemlock when you say there's no point in parsing well what do you mean?
that there's nothing to be improved? :?
civic palm
That doing so this late requires a lot more than just playing well.
civic palm
hahaha
trail heron
well, you are not fully wrong there.......after all, 3 months to go only.
with probably 2 months until prepatch
civic palm
Nah
trail heron
so for 'cutting edge' optimization, the ship has sailed
at this time, becoming 'good' is more useful than 'becoming elite'
trail heron
if you are only now starting out, don't bother with trying to hunt the bestestestestest anymore
the class changes and loss of the artifact will change a lot
civic palm
Improving at the top end isn't self improvement though, it's raid improvement and cheese.
autumn bloom
ah yeah, that's true.
trail heron
and right now, you have LOT of specs that don't even really function without the artifact
civic palm
Wow tank the things within 20y, wow.
dire spoke
Like the chingchang ppl keeping all adds stacked on KinGaroth to gain ressources into each phase
trail heron
and the artifact just mitigates design holes put into a spec so that they can have the artifact give 'meaningful' effects
which would not be needed if they hadn't nerfed the bejesus out of that spec line for the sake of the artifact to begin with :p
trail heron
example, outlaw being designed to be energy starved as fuck
and then, you reach the levels of haste, SnD, and improved AR cooldown timers, plus your 'each builder fills your CP', end result, you are super efficient for a short window
autumn bloom
if you always have enough energy to cast everything that could be useful, that's taking away a level of decision making though. then energy becomes like mana for certain dps casters, where it doesn't matter anymore.
trail heron
however, when your builder attack takes 50% of your power pool, there is some big flaw there.
autumn bloom
maybe. but if you don't have to worry about managing energy to build combo points, then outlaw starts looking an awful lot like havoc.
i'm definitely not saying they nailed it perfectly but i think it makes the class interesting.
when the name of the game becomes build > spend above all else then the most important thing becomes the GCD and movement, and then...yeah that's havoc right now lol
dire spoke
I like how sub is missing DfA now on beta aswell
civic palm
That's a large difference.
civic palm
lol
civic palm
That's because everything else GCD locks you.
and there's like 12 buttons to press that ALL put you on GCD.
dire spoke
it's a long term change, whatever that means
autumn bloom
in ff14?
civic palm
It means that more things will be added to class kits.
and that there's probably a bunch of shit being moved to the .5GCD
autumn bloom
i forgot about the mini GCD.
civic palm
Everyone does.
autumn bloom
that's how fel rush and backflip are for demon hunters right now
dire spoke
I'm expecting more spells being added aswell
autumn bloom
i honestly really liked ff14.
dragoons non weaponskills (jump, mirage dive, etc) were off the gcd, so there was a cool 'weaving' element to combat
dire spoke
maybe we re-empower our artifact weapons in last tier 
autumn bloom
so even though at first glance the combat seemed very slow because of the longer gcd, there was usually something interesting to do.
just felt more deliberate. i'm hoping wow can capture some of that feeling.
civic palm
Blizzard seems more interested in making people plan 1-2 buttons ahead and not reacting to literally everything.
autumn bloom
which i don't think is a terrible intention. i just think stuff starts getting really iffy when something like lust or an interrupt is on the gcd
rip arcane torrent
dire spoke
think ๐๐ป of ๐๐ป the ๐๐ป clickers
autumn bloom
ah. i'm not on the beta.
idk man if lust and racials are getting on it i dont think anything is sacred
civic palm
Lust being on GCD means literally nothing.
civic palm
Cast on pull, let the shaman do it, w/e
dire spoke
civic palm
lol
dire spoke
that's also how I imagine Giggle most of the time when modding stupid shit
civic palm
Push up bra, smashem together.
trail heron
Pad em with crumpled panties.
civic palm
o _o
trail heron
Tfw sin chat is lewding giggle.
dire spoke
trail heron
:ahegao:
civic palm
It's the ... thought... that matters?
dire spoke
giggle silently taking notes
trail heron
Everyone getting judged...
supple hearth
supple hearth
@strange python
strange python
civic palm
fervent beacon
lone junco
Nice thing about sin, Gcd doesn't matter when you are starved for E.
You literally just wait
dire spoke
pressing vendetta in bfa be like http://vid.pr0gramm.com/2018/05/04/11a5377ed7460968.mp4
pine notch
Is there a BFA channel for rogue
civic palm
For #assassination ... right here.
You found it, congratulations.
Do note, that outside of specific queries you are not going to get a solid answer on anything at the moment.
echo cargo
crimson meme finisher or poison bomb talent?
civic palm
atm Poison Bomb damage is low, due to mastery or tuning;
energy generation is low due to loss of T21 and low haste;
so fewer PBomb chances.
CT is better for longer AoE/cleave, Hidden Blades is better for ST.
young dagger
poison bomb should just be a built in passive. like come on blizz
civic palm
Nah, having it on top of everything else would mean that it would have to be as bad as it is now.
With it being it's own thing it means that it can do actual damage again while having a good proc chance.
That is if it can ever get there due to how good it works with just about every stat.
marble wigeon
Anyone use the weak aura for the circle around your cursor? Imported from wago, see the circle when i enter combat, but it does not follow my mouse. Any suggestions?
zealous dew
this one ? https://wago.io/H1ZiNu_Yf
marble wigeon
I grabbed this one, because it had more views/stars. https://www.wago.io/Hklr0dCdf
marble wigeon
follows your mouse?
fiery nest
so is losing your cursor mid fight ๐
but yea the circle is more annoying imo
unless ur a clicker
i dont see the use
zealous dew
should be only on mouse movement
fiery nest
yea
fiery nest
or just for a few seconds after movement
zealous dew
but that's it
fiery nest
aye
at least 90% of the time im holding right click down and mouse turning anyway
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
marble wigeon
Can't figure it out, deleted and loaded multiple times now and the circle just stay bottom left corner of my screen
marble wigeon
You mean just by dragging it right?
zealous dew
yep
marble wigeon
After importing i didn't drag it at all.
fiery nest
sometimes you need to drag it after importing
marble wigeon
Does your test read:
n(progress, startX, startY, deltaX, deltaY)
local scale = 1 / UIParent:GetEffectiveScale()
local x, y = GetCursorPosition()
return x * scale, y * scale
end
custom function i mean
marble wigeon
Could this be a wow cursor setting issue?
zealous dew
or weakaura not updated ?
marble wigeon
hmmmm, guess i could try the weak aura update. Do i need to export anything in order to not lose my current weak auras before updating?
marble wigeon
Where does that addon come from now, it has been a folder in my interface for so long and i don't see it listed on curse site under weak auras
zealous dew
use twitch application / curseforge
marble wigeon
Yeah i am on curse forge, don't see weak aura listed as an addon
zealous dew
marble wigeon
update resolved the issue, thanks
ripe nimbus
awwww if only master of shadows ๐ฆ lol
zealous dew
if only PK - MoS you mean
zealous dew
yeah nice trinket
zealous dew
reported
strange python
Hello guys i am Newbie as assa rogue and i have 1 question. Should i be worried when after making opener i dont have enough Energy to spam all Time something? Will this problem solve when i get better gear and i Will have larger anmount of procs? For you it can be stupid but i am rally worried about future raids in this class spec
zealous dew
sin rogue is one of the lowest APM
so you can't "SPAM"
you need a lot of crit to be a bit more "spammy" and that comes with gear
strange python
Ok for now i have Little trouble with keeping UP my envenom buff but the rest is fine. I can easily keep up my poisons and bleeds efects
brisk forge
Dont track envenom like that, cant have it upp all the time. Will be enough up time if you just play your spec
Play EP/Alacrity with 50% crit and you can spam away !
strange python
Yeah i saw there are 3 options of build rogue. Which is currently the Best for now?
safe matrix
Poisons the easiest to gear for
A lot of legendary combinations and talent combinations are viable
Generally the 3 in the guide are good cookie cutters
But bleed is very hard to gear for
strange python
I stay with mp/toxic blade for now couse i get used to this build. And how it is with m+ as assa rogue. I don't ask on mythic 20 dungeons but should i anyway swap for subtlety anyway?
brisk forge
I've played assa in20++ and its fine, idc about mdi ๐
So assa will do fine in m+ ๐๐ป
safe matrix
AoE is heavily reliant on poison bomb
which is RNG, so its inconsistent/unpredictable
sin is competitive on low trash/tyrannical keys
or if you comp around them
๐คท
marble hemlock
its actually the other way around, on tyrannical keys, where trash usually dies fairly fast, assa actually is worse than sub, whereas on forti, where you cannot pull as big and/or trash takes some time to kill, assa performs better overall
but yeah, aoe is really just spamming fok, keeping up rupture, and getting a bomb here or there. over the course of a 30min run the bomb-rng usually evens out so its not as random as people make it seem
safe matrix
is it the other way around?
I thought it was you took it for the single target damage
marble hemlock
well, it obviously depends a lot on the level of the keys
fiery nest
i'd rather spam fok and actually do damage to priority targets instead of hoping for a poison bomb but thats just me
turbid harbor
ya sub deals burst aoe damage and is even very good on 2.5-3min boss fights
damage is front loaded on single target
marble hemlock
assa has great prio damage too thanks to low-cd cooldowns
turbid harbor
and fortified trash lives too long for sub
safe matrix
I mean regardless I play sub in m+, I was just answering his question
marble hemlock
oh yeah, not trying to counter your points, youre right in that assa is strongest on singletarget and sustained aoe
but its a misconception that assa is better on tyra keys, i thought so at first aswell
fiery nest
@marble hemlock i mean it does but it does garbage on trash unless you get lucky
marble hemlock
at least on highkeys bosses last long enough on tyrannical for sub to get a second set of cooldowns which makes a huge different
fiery nest
and if you're talking about "low cd cooldowns" there isn't a spec that has lower cds than sub
marble hemlock
when you gear for aoe damage, which isnt all that big of a singletarget loss as you may think, assa aoe isnt garbage
fiery nest
symbol dfa dance every trash pack = 3m+ dps every time not reliant on pb rng
marble hemlock
its not great either, but its certainly not bad
well, you can do 3m+ on every pack as assa too
marble hemlock
on average, pb is ~12-14% of your overall damage, when you get extremely lucky it may be 16%, if you get really unlucky it may be 9-10%
MDI isnt about pushing highkeys, its about speed
im talking about highkeys in particular, obviously assa provides almost nothing of value in speed-runs of lower keys
marble hemlock
it most certainly is not
turbid harbor
on 1 target sure
marble hemlock
not over the course of an entire 30min run
turbid harbor
what about on more than 1 target
fiery nest
oh yeah
on 1 target i was saying
i didnt think ppl actually pushed high m+ as sin my bad
marble hemlock
oh yeah, on singeltarget bomb luck makes the difference between doing 2mil or 2.5mil singletarget, which is kind of annoying
turbid harbor
i agree with everything seliathan said
marble hemlock
people are coming around to the idea of playing assa on high keys because sub is actually quite bad once you hit 25+
fiery nest
i mean u can brainlessly go through your single target rotation as sin and hope for PB procs or you can be skilled and actually help push high keys as a good spec
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
turbid harbor
monk boomkin sub is fine because they carry sustained aoe
marble hemlock
if you play sub, you want wl+mm
so all 3 specs benefit from doing low-hp trashpulls together with high priority target mobs, or even pulling trash into bosses
and if youre just doing your singletarget rotation brainlessly on trash, youre doing it wrong, sorry to say
cold spoke
wow, talking cat
fiery nest
๐
turbid harbor
i know that miracle plays with wl mm but you definitely don't need to set up like that unless you're doing eoa or something
fiery nest
ok so how do you chang eyour rotation on trash as sin in a 20
cold spoke
Why is everyone talking about retail rn, imo beta talk
fiery nest
tell me
marble hemlock
depends on the size of the pack
cold spoke
if its aoe you want to use aoe spells :3
fiery nest
you dont use glaives cause u have no modifiers
you dont use cloak cause sstorm does nothing
i mean u can use cloak
but
cold spoke
sstorm as sin, you mean fok?
turbid harbor
you're using a finisher every 2nd/3rd global
you rupture targets that will live long enough
fiery nest
it has no modifier
turbid harbor
you keep envenom and tier buff up
marble hemlock
1-4mobs: rupture all>maximize envenom/vp uptime
5-7mobs: rupture 2-3>maximize envenom/vp uptime
8+mobs: 1-2ruptures for energy sustain, clip vp, fok and overcap CP
marble hemlock
you know that pulling big numbers on pull isnt all there is to aoe-dps, right?
cold spoke
I dont like to play around vp uptime on 5-7 mobs
you can keep it up even if you clip it hard
fiery nest
tough btw
marble hemlock
noone said it was a "hard" rotation, but its not bad dps even without bombs
cold spoke
I usually Rupture 2 and just go for more finishers
marble hemlock
and you will get bombs
cold spoke
which results in more bombs
marble hemlock
you most certainly did
fiery nest
just said why play it when u just do ur st rotation
cold spoke
I just like to slam envenom
marble hemlock
"could just play another spec and actually be useful"
cold spoke
but its just me
cold spoke
also i dont even know what im saying because im not even doing m+
fiery nest
when do u ever not double rupture in st
safe matrix
just reroll to ww
turbid harbor
what does double rupture in st mean
cold spoke
just put 2 ruputres on one mob and then exsang
marble hemlock
most sub rogues have actually rerolled by now
cold spoke
latent merlin
good morning peeps. which leggos do you use in m+ ? asking for 22 and higher
fiery nest
i didnt say sin wasnt useful i just said sub is more skill dependent, and not reliant on just doing st rotation every pull
sin is reliant on doing your st rotation
cold spoke
surely mantle
fiery nest
and getting pbs
marble hemlock
and looking at the ones still playing, a lot of them are playing assa more often or play assa exclusively like afto/me/zodibre are doing
cold spoke
Thats a No brainer
fiery nest
ye
cold spoke
then anything from aoe leggos cloak/ Bracers etc
latent merlin
is the ring any good?
cold spoke
No idea, but i think you can have a macro with cloak
latent merlin
and is it worth in high fortified keys to talent into DFA?
fiery nest
theres a reason musclebrah had 22 sets as sub, never played sin, and then went to monk
marble hemlock
assa on aoe is more than just doing the same singletarget rotation on aoe, atleast if you want to maximize dps
cold spoke
That foks and Change lego to bracers
fiery nest
hint its because sin is reliant on st rotation and pb procs for cleave
frank sentinel
that's why we are seeing all these sin rogues in mdi right
fiery nest
^
marble hemlock
again, MDI is about speed, not consistency or high difficulty runs, which is where assa excels at
youre comparing apples and oranges when youre trying to compare highkeys (as in26+) and speed-clears (as in MDI)
cold spoke
also even if a class would be 0.1% better youd see only that and nothing else
frank sentinel
i can't be bothered to have this argument idk why i even said anything LOL it's 3am in the god damned morning
marble hemlock
im not gonna argue that assa is almost worthless in a speed-run setting, im arguing that assa is totally viable in a highkey setting
fiery nest
these sin ppl doing 13s saying sin is fine
marble hemlock
didnt want to play that card, but you do realize i have a few top10 world runs under my belt and am one of the highest ranked rogues overall, right?
why would i be able to do that if assa was shit?
and people couldve just brought someone else?
fiery nest
hey guys its fine i did 3m dps on the 4th trash pack
cold spoke
To jebait everyone and take your ranks for your own
fiery nest
and 500k over the disc preist on the others
marble hemlock
if you say so
marble hemlock
keep the blinders on if you will, im going to enjoy pushing keys as assa and people actually start appreciating the spec for what it can do
turbid harbor
outside of upper kara and you there's one 27 cleared in time with a sin rogue
vault fortified
marble hemlock
its a solid t2 spec for highkeys right now, same as sub
fiery nest
they havent because it doesn't have on demand damage
and i cant do single target on demand damage
ijts fucking simple
marble hemlock
well, pushing highkeys isnt all about on-demand damage
cold spoke
๐ค
fiery nest
if you're pushing high keys you need on demand damage
turbid harbor
ramp?
marble hemlock
not really, its highly volatile, its just that even if you get super unlucky it still performs well enough
fiery nest
lol
marble hemlock
i.e. 2m without good procs, 2.5m if you get decent ones
cold spoke
i mean it takes 3 globals to ramp
cold spoke
its hard when youre talking in binary
marble hemlock
assa and sub both have similar burst actually, if you play with mantle. both peak at 6-8m on pull depending on crit/procluck
cold spoke
i dont think sin needs luck
vestal wren
sin even without luck peforms well
fiery nest
so u rely on pb
turbid harbor
being toxic and uninformed is annoying to read
marble hemlock
its still rng, just not as much as assa. you keep forgetting the important point though, luck isnt what makes assa good. the spec is good in itself. luck pushes it above others
fiery nest
and multi dot rupture
marble hemlock
yeah, you dont use on-use trinkets cause theyre shit
vestal wren
thats the main reason its played over sub, you peform well neverless and have a high celling with luck
marble hemlock
yup
cold spoke
i play it sometimes
vestal wren
in raids
cold spoke
toughts
marble hemlock
so if its never played
fiery nest
not talking about raid
cold spoke
same
marble hemlock
or zodibre
fiery nest
talking about m+
vestal wren
sin is probably underrated in m+
marble hemlock
even crenix, okire and sebek play assa in a few dungeons nowadays
fiery nest
sin is good for certain affixes
vestal wren
but given that the burst style of sub just fit most speed run tactics more sub is ofc the better choice
cold spoke
miracle had some weeks where he played sin
marble hemlock
fuck, even miracle considered playing assa in a few specific dungeons
cold spoke
Yeah
marble hemlock
because he realized that the world isnt as one-dimensional as you make it out to be, and that assa most definitely has things to offer that sub doesnt
fiery nest
mhmm for certain dungeons on certain keys with certain affixes. otherwise he has 22 sets as sub
lol
lolol
cold spoke
I think sub is better but i woudnt call sin shit
vestal wren
it comes down to the lvl of the key
cold spoke
i mean, you make it sound like you think that
vestal wren
i can see sin becomming relevant on very high keys
marble hemlock
speaking about 26+ keys right now? assa actually is better than sub, unless you can pull trash into bosses, which is severely limited by affixes
turbid harbor
this conversation has always been about 26+
fiery nest
LOL
turbid harbor
that is what is considered high atm
marble hemlock
nah, been ridiculous ever since you started throwing around random arguments with nothing to back it up but "muh on-demand dps" and "22 gearsets LUL"
fiery nest
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
vestal wren
he was likely meming muscle
marble hemlock
i mean i got 15 and use like half of them on a semi-regular basis and the others are niche-sets
fiery nest
because you can
vestal wren
also clam down
strange python
Guys much thanks for help! I think i got better understanding of assa rogue. I Will probably ask few more Times for something but i See that there are do many of u to help!! Gลaz to See that
marble hemlock
keep one thing in mind biiru, it doesnt matter which spec performs the best on any given level, if you cannot perform that well because youre not comfortable playing it, youre better off playing something you do feel comfortable in
fiery nest
true story ^
marble hemlock
assa most definitely is easier to learn because the rotation is straightout simpler and even when you fuck some things up, its not as damaging to your overall dps compared to something like sub
fiery nest
sorry for provoking a bit guys i've had a few cocktails and have been fckin around and "memeing" haHAA
cold spoke
HEH i like memes
strange python
I feel very good as assa but i met guys which talk about not going assa even on mythic 15-16 couse it sucks.
fiery nest
just a prank btw haHAA
turbid harbor
yikes
marble hemlock
just remember that everyone has his job in a m+, and its not all about on-demand aoe damage, because only a select few classes are going to shine on that end
fiery nest
if ur doing a 15 every week play whatever u want
if ur doing an 18 every week play whatever u want
steep obsidian
nahhhh its all about racing each other to win the overdamage i thought
marble hemlock
you may look bad on trash but most likely beat the others on bosses, thats your job
know your strengths and weaknesses, and play around them
fiery nest
the only ppl that beat me on bosses is arcane mage xd
steep obsidian
i still found it funny that people were trolling gingji because his overall wasnt high when he was playing sub but he was wrecking bosses and prio targets because that the way shit works
fiery nest
and only sometime
marble hemlock
theres 3 dps in any group for a reason, its to compliment those strengths and weaknesses
to be fair, gingis singletarget was somewhat lacking compared to other rogues playing
steep obsidian
and he wasnt even changing to cloak
well i guess it not his main so yeh mebe struggle
but still people just look at overall when they look at shit
marble hemlock
the inspect tool may have been broken, but he wasnt switching gear around enough for bosses, rarely played ring on multi-target bosses and his trinket-choices were a bit awkward aswell
turbid harbor
ya then he stood there on hatecoil and died for no reason
then didn't move for 5 mins
marble hemlock
๐
marble hemlock
but yeah, m+ is much like a shopping list, you just need to be able to check everything off with the 5people you have in your grp, as long as youre able to do just that theres no reason to look at specs too closely
for speedruns that just means bring 2 ultra-aoe classes and a third one with good aoe and great singletarget, which usually led to sub+boomy+monk or sub+dh+monk
little frigate
What if you hate sub ๐ฆ
marble hemlock
then dont play sub
its the main-reason im not playing it, i cant stand sub gameplay
played assa throughout the entirety of tomb of soakgeras because of it :x
you just need to blast in the spec of your choosing so people dont complain about you playing a "sub-par" spec
brisk forge
True that, played assa all legion cuz i like it and preform good enough ๐๐ป
marble hemlock
sub just sucks
never enjoyed specs that did half their damage with just one ability
turbid harbor
marble hemlock
ret/mm/sub are some of the worst offenders this expansion
marble hemlock
or classes that only deal damage during their cooldowns
that sucks too
dh/firemage for example
must feel so shitty to barely scrape 1mil dps outside of cooldowns
marble hemlock
yeah
but i always liked the feel of assa in that regard, a few cooldowns with very low CD that you can pop everywhere and have frequently available, and your overall dps outside of those is decent aswell
makes the spec very flexible
turbid harbor
I preferred assa earlier in the expansion
jovial kite
marble hemlock
AP was weird
turbid harbor
When rupture did shitloads of dmg
marble hemlock
never liked having to switch poisons between trash and bosses
turbid harbor
And getting to dot a 2nd target felt really good
marble hemlock
somewhat
felt awkward to keep up poisons on that 2nd target
or even just stack up AP on that target
turbid harbor
I wish we had sub rework for nh
marble hemlock
and since poison knives didnt work with AP, that was weird too ๐ฆ
turbid harbor
Wouldโve been hilarious
turbid harbor
Ya just a small additive amount
marble hemlock
was just increased AP effectiveness
stark heart
how do you imagine it working then? I am kinda confused
marble hemlock
"not working" is somewhat wrong, it wasnt supposed to
well, woudlve been nice if foking on targets affected by AP would still have the damage component
marble hemlock
rarely
stark heart
also damage component is tied to DP which you obviously didn't have applied
marble hemlock
pre-buff it was 60% chance with envenom up, and clipping envenom in the days of old wasnt really feasible
stark heart
AP was shit talent anyway
marble hemlock
so mobs were usually dead by the time you couldve gotten 5ap stacks up on them just by foking
brisk forge
I liked tunnel the boss ๐
stark heart
it wasn't AoE talent for those reasons
marble hemlock
but i agree, AP was shit design, and removing it was a bandaid fix which led to a whole array of other issues that it took them quite some time to fix
i mean the damage calculation for PK couldve still been doable even if you didnt actually apply DP
stark heart
liking tunneling the boss 
marble hemlock
that wouldve been some decent aoe damage, fully stacked AP on all mobs with pk proccing on every fok ๐ฎ
fiery nest
cause pressing 1 button is fun
marble hemlock
thats what almost every class does
fiery nest
lol
marble hemlock
keep up/stack up buffs, spam that one aoe button
fiery nest
not really but ok
marble hemlock
MM spams aimed shot after spreading vulnerable, sub spams evis after stacking shuriken combo, DH spams memebeam, boomy spams mf while maintaining starfall
zealous dew
Seed spinning
marble hemlock
yeah
marble hemlock
wl spams seed, ret spams DS while maintaining divine hammer
its all the same
with a few differences here or there
zealous dew
Arcane explosion
marble hemlock
but class design in general has been "2-4buffs/debuffs you maintain, do that and spam your filler, pray to RNGsus for good parse"
some classes got the QTE style "press the glowy button when it glows" too, which is nice i guess
zealous dew
๐
marble hemlock
only very few classes diverge significantly enough, ww/combatrogue being the only two that spring to my mind right now, but theres probably a handful more
maybe afflilock because you actually have a resource that you can still pool for trinket/artifact procs
i wonder whether blizz will forbid certain addons for the LAN-finals of MDI
our tank yday was amazed by how good the chinese m+ addon is
its happening ๐
the revolution is starting
steep obsidian
sin is pretty good for eoa
and really good when you take away pointless mobs like the globules
marble hemlock
well, eoa is like the prime-dungeon for sub though ๐
steep obsidian
same with cos sin wrecks shit as long as you have enough aoe to burst imps sin better imo
marble hemlock
crabs+hydras all day long
steep obsidian
yeah i guess
marble hemlock
hatecoil with the adds, can pull crabs into serpentrix+wrath too ๐ฎ
marble hemlock
steep obsidian
was more talking about when i do keys not when nerds who are insane do them
steep obsidian
cant beat sub when you play to its strengths
marble hemlock
shows cooldown for knifedance/shockwave/arrow barrage on the nameplate
echo estuary
Appears that i missed seliathans discord brawl, darn it
marble hemlock
everything
zealous dew
going to test it ๐
zealous dew
cos it is!
strange python
@marble hemlock can u tell me which trinkets Will be Best for m+ usage? Should i stay same like on raids? Shadow singed fang and golganeth?
marble hemlock
pretty much, yeah
best in slot would be mastery stat-stick and engine of eradication on a high ilvl, and those are almost impossible to get
strange python
Ok good that singed fang is easy to obtain. Hardest part is to get invite for antorus with 912 ilvl like i have xd
marble hemlock
๐
strange python
But my rogue have about 2 weeks and on 110 it's about 2 days.
I have to keep farming veiled argunite and Some low m+
echo estuary
If the game was good, you could have been competitive with 912 ilevel up until 95th percentile, sadly the game is not good
nova pagoda
one of the demon hunters I play with has a 950 engine
echo estuary
People think im crazy, i wonder, should the pyjamas i wear be a factor in my progression in chess
nova pagoda
And it's for his off spec beacuse he's a main tank xd
crystal mortar
zealous dew
@marble hemlock that addon is ace
marble hemlock
zealous dew
one thing I can't move is party CDs they're covered by party frames
and the -Y goes only to -20
marble hemlock
yeah, havent really bothered configuring it yet
but its just nice to have everything in one package
grand lynx
what does it do? I've been too chicken to download it
marble hemlock
just shows basically everything the trashmobs do
above their nameplates
casts, buffs, cooldowns for big abilities like eyestorm, shockwaves, stuff like that
grand lynx
ah, nice
slow trench
Is there any info on BFA specifically in this discord?
spare cloud
what kind of info?
ripe nimbus
Don't ask about rogue BFA info here u will just get spergs saying "RoGuE tO sLoW aNd ClUnKy" because apparently they are new to the class or something and don't know it's this way at the start of every expac
manic vigil
trail heron
well, it depends on what they take OUT of the classes to have an excuse to add 'makes the class functional to begin with' elements in the 'current' content
spare cloud
that awkward moment when you have no idea what you're talking about but you still feel the need to express yourself
viscid helm
shots fired guys
shrewd night
Isnt spergs very close to the a word?
spare cloud
Bird is the word
shrewd night
Time to hit the ๐ธ
shrewd night
Ill police anyone being a ๐ธ
manic vigil
You guys suck
spare cloud
spare cloud
take it to #off-topic please
spare cloud
take it to #off-topic please @jovial kite
vernal adder
drop potassium there
fluid viper
spare cloud
takes insane amount of ram
echo estuary
screw the pool. beautiful countryside
order a weekend with slaggjack, olutta (i prefer Koff) and fishing in the morning, sauna with kosken in the evening
1h assa bleed lecture included
vernal adder
1 tip, wf/tf t20
manic vigil
1h 
silent parcel
Any ~965 ilv ass that can link a sim?
zealous dew
are you fishing botas with Slag ?
lone junco
but 965 should be like 2.05- 2.18m dps
@zealous dew is he fishing finally? i havent raided since february
vernal adder
their age irl?
zealous dew
oh by the way noobe, get the SMT for M+, Seliathan posted the link above
it's an insane addon
slim lake
looking for someone knowledgeable to help me with some stat weight stuff, having a hard time switching rings around, keeping mastery high, and keeping 4 piece
vernal adder
slim lake
this channel used to be helpful, now it's trade chat all over again
manic vigil
He's right tho 
gaunt moat
@slim lake simming is the answer. what else do you want.
i can only say that if you start by insulting this whole channel, you will not get the responses you wish for
candid jasper
I heard talk of sin being compared to a melee affli lock in BFA
Any truth in that? :p
candid jasper
Thanks for that ๐