oh dang you're right: I meant sub
#assassination
silent nova
flint fable
you should get more than 1 try a week
silent nova
ok will do ty
dawn fiber
DO I ENVENOM ON 4 CP?
hoary copper
YES
twin meadow
LOUD NOISES
dawn fiber
WHY NOT ON 5 CP?
cosmic prism
anyone got a good assassination weakauras or tellmewhen?
hoary copper
You aim for 4 so you dont overcap. There's more to it
SIN GUIDE HERE--> http://www.ravenholdt.net/assassination-guide/ <--SIN GUIDE HERE
dawn fiber
SO IF I HAVE 5 CP I DONT ENVENOM? RUPTURE?
dawn fiber
I CANT READ GOOD SRY
twin meadow
wow, didnt realise this spec was so complicated
drifting cloud
just block him just a troll asking same questions every 2days
manic vigil
hoary copper
wow just saw the post history....yea
shrewd night
Wew lad
Where is that gif I had for these exact moments
Well shit, its a youtube
safe tiger
does anyone have the group arcane torrent wa?
spare cloud
Slagg you missed the clownfiesta
jovial kite
oh
gaunt moat
@jovial kite thanks
jovial kite
failed?
spare cloud
No
But its so stupid
I just played random shit because I didn't care what happened
still won
spare cloud
Yeh
and Vaeria blamed on on twitch chat the whole time
because i didn't play the proper cards
@sharp viper
I still need the beat the time boss
I had a run where I wouldve beaten him if I didn't do some stupid shit
manic vigil
spare cloud
But then I did some stupid shit
manic vigil
Don't make me snitch to the 
spare cloud
Offtopic?
manic vigil
spare cloud
Nobody reads it 
gaunt moat
@spare cloud people read it. don't post STS stuff here.
spare cloud
Yes I'm sorry
hoary copper
STS?
spare cloud
Just saw everyone writing in here and got carried away 
manic vigil
sharp viper
prisma gull
fuck im getting worse and worse at this damn tower..
vestal wren
just use defensive legos
prisma gull
I have 1, belt ๐
vestal wren
oh
prisma gull
I got it like 1 hour ago, dinged this toon not too long ago either. 905 ilevel ๐
gaunt moat
Lapki
manic vigil
manic vigil
sharp viper
that kitten looks sad and tired ๐ฆ
strange python
Cats don't have feelings
hoary copper
such little ears
manic vigil
How do you know? @strange python
strange python
They are heartless killing machines
sharp viper
just an act to deceive you
lone creek
how many ilvl is t20 combined worth?
sharp viper
probably several but your best bet is to 
oh t20
i misread t21
still, simming applies
lone creek
all good lmao, just an alt and curious if farming m tos is worth it x.x
But I can plug & chug : )
lost horizon
You're fine without it
It's good if you have high enough ilvl and bracers+boots (especially for 2target)
sharp viper
shoulders and hands are nice to have, only the 2set bonus is interesting as bleed tho, for poison it is just a quality of life change
lone creek
Is shoulder lego gone now? Like, I'm new-ish and always saw "OH GOTTA GET MY MANTLE"
lost horizon
Even for poison the 2p is really good for 2target
Mantle+wrists is still go to
Boots+wrists is good too with 4+2
sharp viper
several combinations of legendaries work, shoulders isn't necessarily always the best
lone creek
I got bracers/boots as my first two, and have 7/7 Vendetta so someone told me boots were much better with that build
sharp viper
boots bracers works perfectly fine with offset pieces as well (shoulders + hands/pants) without t20
lost horizon
There's a bunch of different combos that can work well
Boots+wrists ideally you want t20 2p, but high ilvl offpieces will do fine as well
lone creek
Yeah apparently lmao. I'm used to Spriest/WW/mage where things are kinda..straight forward.
sharp viper
if you have 7/7 vendetta you can consider to play exsanguinate in raids
lost horizon
Exsang is fun, I'd definitely give it a try
lone creek
Hmm, I've read up on that build a bit. Is it worth at 6/6?
Like one of my relics is 880 with vend, so uhh.. Not guaranteed 7 for too long.
lost horizon
I mean you can
But it'd be a bit janky
7/7 with boots makes your vendetta line up perfectly with exsang
strange python
acoustic you say
lone creek
my relic situations are like, one side then the other lmao
strange python
the 3rd vendetta relic even though its 880 will stay there until you get a higher ilvl vendetta relic
lone creek
yeah, i'm far from ideal LOL
this char has literally just farmed argus each week for trinket
@strange python worth close to what, 50ilvl I'd assume? o.o
hoary copper
Eh I need 2 more vendetta relics -.- I feel like as I got upgrades I did a bit better a few ilvl ago
strange python
i kept a 915 MAss relic until i was clearing mythic stuff
you can do it with 2 mass relics but it doesnt feel very good
sharp viper
most of the time weapon/relic ilvl is inferior to traits
strange python
you have to push for a ton of energy spent to make them line up
without 4p21 though, you're gonna want 3/3
without 2p 20 you're going to hate life aswell
sharp viper
drop haste, get crit/vers/mastery
zealous dew
stack haste + mastery then UA like mad
lone creek
I can farm heroic t21/mythic t20 this week and tomorrow, and then I might have a 8/11m clear next week as well
strange python
im still using 915-925 t20 because of how good it is for bleedyboi over 970+ offpieces
hoary copper
Tier 21 gloves are ๐คข
sharp viper
not that bad
lone creek
cmon man cut me some slack i'm just a boye trying to look pretty :(
i figure 2p > no 2p, only reason i have them lmao
hoary copper
Need an alacrity emote
strange python
but yeah id almost say that for bleed, 2p/4p is mandatory
otherwise things dont quite line up
lone creek
can you make it :gratsspk: @hoary copper
strange python
with 2p/4p and 7/7 MAss, you're able to vendetta about 3s before your exsang
sharp viper
t21 gloves have a ton of mastery, they can work in poison spec if you have the offset pants from aggramar
lone creek
so ideally for 2p/4p, what slots am i looking to have 2p in? someone said shoulders cloak earlier
sharp viper
shoulders gloves
strange python
shoulders hands or shoulders cloak
cloak only because it doesnt give that much in the way of stats anyway
hoary copper
Finding a decent pug to do Avatar will be fun if I wanted to get T20 shoulders
sharp viper
shoulders are a bit hard to get cause maiden and avatar xD
strange python
yeah if you find a good pug though they're worth it
lone creek
I just have to coerce some guildies into coming to do them
hoary copper
I need guildies that play, Im basically alone at this point
sharp viper
also they are part of the pretty t20 mythic set and there are no off pieces to replace them
my favourite pve set of this expansion
strange python
@lone creek this is not what i want to be at as far as endgame bleed, but this is my WiP set. Id ideally like to drop haste but no good rolls thus far. cba cropping also srry
sharp viper
t21 shoulders tho ๐
lone creek
so with proper tier i'd be looking close to that notbory
strange python
they're 965 and my t20 are 915 so :L
sharp viper
well with less haste
strange python
yeah basically, but with less haste
lone creek
gotcha gotcha
sharp viper
how much do you sim for?
strange python
lot of that haste comes from t20 cloak, t21 shoudlers and a 980 crit/haste ring
lone creek
sec i'll check
sharp viper
i mean our bleedyboi
hoary copper
So much crit
hoary copper
Crit gear doesnt want to drop for me keep getting haste mastery or verse mastery
sharp viper
might be acceptable on a boss like kingaroth where bracers are not as strong
i only get haste/vers gear
strange python
its not super far behind even on patchwerk sim
sharp viper
but at least outlaw is decked with off pieces
strange python
it just moves your damage spread around a bit
sharp viper
how many bb traits do you have?
strange python
1, ive got 2 rupture relics with mass
hoary copper
I think bleed build was .9% behind, tho I think its quite a bit behind shoulder/boots which are simming highest. Miss bracers ๐ฆ
sharp viper
that 975 heroic head tho...
lost horizon
If you prefer playing with bracers, just use em
sharp viper
i think he meant that he does not have bracers yet?
hoary copper
I do
prime void
shoulders boots is stupid
hoary copper
I have most the good leggos so far. Just sims quite a bit higher so I stick with it. Not that I do anything that it matters
lost horizon
Bracers have more high roll potential, and if people die before/during execute to extend it you're better off
prime void
If you're going to play shoulders- you're playing it for the top end variance
Which is pointless with boots
lost horizon
Shoulders+boots is good for kinny
prime void
Woohoo one fight
sharp viper
depends on the fight length
sharp viper
if you get more vendetta uptime than you get bonus out of the execute braicers
prime void
playing shoulders w/o bracers is just kek
sharp viper
???
there are independent of each other
and shoulders+bracers allign vendetta and vanish better than you have with mantle+bracers
strange python
wtf
prime void
you play shoulders to r1- not going to r1 with boots
shoulders boots that is
boots bracers different story
I see you john
strange python
play boots/crown
plain thistle
๐ค
hahah
I was going to say that it is possible to get rank 1 with boots+bracer. but you were talking about boots+shoulder
prime void
I know what you were going to say ๐
That's why I said I see you and added what I was talking about XD
strange python
legionfall and co
strange python
i feel like on something like coven or even a pure ST, bleed has a chance at being top 10 logs-- the same RNG you need to get it with poison applies though
sharp viper
no you need more rng as bleedy boi cause you need both skillbomb procs and bota at the right time
strange python
truth, with like 66+% BoTA youd be close to r1s
sharp viper
and coven has a lot of add dmg as well
sharp viper
not as bleedy boi tho, it was a poison log
plain thistle
I had coven r1 for a month I think, now its rank9 ish
sharp viper
strange python
aye nvm then, couldve sworn he said it was bleed
plain thistle
with boots+bracer ofc
manic vigil
Mizu 
hoary copper
I like the boot/bracers play I think over shoulder/bracers
sullen mountain
If you use boots do you need 3 MA relics
sharp viper
both mantle and boots affect yoru playstyle way more than bracers do tho
mantle - vanish becomes a strong dps cd
boots - more vendettas
bracers - only slight delay on pot/cds if the fight is too short
sharp viper
you don't need 3 ma relics if you play poison with boots/bracers
sharp viper
your abilities hitting harder sadly does not affect your rotation
sullen mountain
is there big DRs with having a 3rd?
like are the first 2 worth a lot more than a third
sharp viper
3rd relic is like 2s off of the cd but it is about better cd allignment, although everything is worthless if you have to delay vendetta because of mechanics
sullen mountain
right
strange python
crit build o.o
honest pelican
aw yeah, my 3rd leggo. thank jeebus. i prayed to RNGesus
now i need to sim valeera vs uncrowned king
im sure if i dump valeera, itll be better anyway, healing vs more dmg + regain 2pc t21
strange python
blub
honest pelican
so mantle just means now instead of vanish rupturing i vanish envenom spam?
sharp viper
yup
strange python
he didnt want boots /cry
zealous dew
he has 985 boots
honest pelican
just a simple 5pt envenom vanish hit? is there anything i want to try to time during those 5 seconds like kingsbane hit or something after
hoary copper
4cp* but yes
strange python
you vanish with cp and enven ->mut enven mut enven until out of time
sharp viper
ideally you have toxic blade up during that time with kingsbane running as well
sharp viper
your opener should be as is written in the guide garrote mutilate rupture toxic blade kingsbane vanish envenom mutilate envenom mutilate envenom mutilate
you get more energy during the opener due to the head legendary so your vanish rotation should be smooth even without t21 4p
dusky tiger
!trinkets
chrome tuskBOT
List of trinkets for each spec: http://tc.ravenholdt.net/
cosmic prism
give me a reason to gear up now before the new expansion when all the gear will become irrelevant
strange python
no I'm not gonna play bfa because the gear will be irrelevant in the expansion after bfa
๐
regal drum
I play the game because my peepee get hard when I kill rogues
I didnt even realize this was in the rogue discord
whoops
calm grail
Get em out of here!
hoary copper
Cant kill what you cant see....till its too late....like Jaws
prisma gull
So during my KB window, should I just muti-envenom regardless of combo points just to keep the buff/debuff up?
prisma gull
aight
strange python
hey guys do u have tips to kill garothi
crimson knoll
You'll never parse that way.
Tunnel boss, feint slams, blame healers when you wipe.
void pecan
He said kill not parse
fervent beacon
Spec outlaw, take SnD, faceroll
sharp viper
you are bound to be a top 100 parser if you play outlaw
primal tangle
sharp viper
outlaw has 48 parses on argus mythic, sub has 61, assassination has over 1k
regal drum
@hoary copper This is why I play DH
hallow tiger
guys which is better on m+ trash? sin or sub?
plain thistle
sub, more consistent
hoary copper
Generally sub except maybe much higher keys I think is the consensus. For most its sub
steep obsidian
^ pretty much if you pull big though sub is amazing especially when there is a prio mob you want dead asap
regal drum
@hoary copper Yes, nothing gives me more pleasure than catching a rogue with my throw glaive right after he vanishes away
vernal rain
insignia ring worth using in M+ as sin?
plain thistle
no, because you will be using FoK and not mut for AoE
dire remnant
anyone here use bartender
smoky tulip
So weโre 150 pulls in to Arg and hitting P3 consistently.
Best pull is 40%
Weโre not even half way through progression I donโt think
drifting cloud
yeah youre about halfway there
smoky tulip
P3 and P4 are legit way more difficult
drifting cloud
last 25% is basically the whole fight, just depends how good your guild handles it
drifting cloud
not even sure tbh do you get the one at 70% and then another one right before 40%?
you want to avoid atleast 1 of those, preferably both
smoky tulip
What do you mean?
drifting cloud
when the debuffs go out in p1/2
smoky tulip
Dps check is to avoid 8th rage
hushed urchin
Be me playing rogue
Favorite alt played ret pally for 7 months before capping rogue
As pally, loot ever legendary available for DPS got bis in the last 4 of the table
Feelsbadman.pnc
Enjoy rogue, play every now and then, sees results
First leggo comes from token, no clue if it's good, turns out to be bracers
Next 2 turnout to be KJ and Sephuz Feelsbadman.gif
Rogue legg #4 = Mantle
I am rogue god
drifting cloud
well yeah do you make it ๐
if you make that one you probably make the one in p2 easily
smoky tulip
Which means you avoid 4th gaze before transition or the timings of bomb and burst overlap awkwardly
We struggled at first
Only making it half the time
People dying to dumb stuff in P1 was mostly the reason as well as people being dumb with buff drops
But if you can consistently dodge stuff while getting 4 buffs, itโs hard NOT to make dps check
drifting cloud
well depends on the guild
smoky tulip
I didnโt know there was one in p2 :/
smoky tulip
Is that to give you enough time to not hit enrage in p4?
drifting cloud
yeah that aswell
but its just a timing for another set of debuffs
but like I said making the p2 is easy
smoky tulip
Itโs definitely an exciting fight. I havenโt raided CE content since Sunwell
drifting cloud
yeah come back in another 100 or so pulls
when youre wiping on 2% because people are dieing to scythes
๐
smoky tulip
Itโs kinda dumb that the rest of the raid pales in comparison to Argus
drifting cloud
and every pulls is 9+ minutes
smoky tulip
Haha true
calm grail
RIP
drifting cloud
thats why you have guilds that killed it in 200 pulls and guilds that did it in 800
๐
calm grail
My guild still dies to Imonar.
๐
We're not going to be seeing him for a while though, we're just going to be extending until we're done
Or you can't extend anymore.
smoky tulip
Weโve extended since killing Coven lol
calm grail
Feel like heaven should be easy, but I'm in a potato Guild
smoky tulip
Took about 120 pulls (I think or Aggz) then extended for Argus (3 raid nights so far)
calm grail
Coven*
smoky tulip
We struggled on her tbh
Took the same amount of pulls as Aggz which is nuts
It was probs strat thing than an execution thing
smoky tulip
๐ณ
calm grail
That's the thing, I haven't put much time into it yet, but I heard it's super predictable.
drifting cloud
and like a third of those are from people dieing to first flame adds
calm grail
It's really just the beam that makes it different right? Aside from the obvious things like more HP and damage
smoky tulip
Yeah, like I said. It was probs the strat as well as ppl being dumb? I dunno
calm grail
Tell me friends, what is the extent of your damage to Vari adds?
A token mutilate?
Or is that even worth it?
smoky tulip
We used a DK tank on Aggz that ran Aggramars Stride and trinket, was dying a few times randomly. I asked if he would put on shoulders and waist, he refused. Sat him the next night and another DK that hasnโt even pulled the fight before crushed it and we killed it that night
turbid harbor
are you oce?
smoky tulip
I would only Mute @calm grail
turbid harbor
who says aggz
smoky tulip
Yep Frostmourne
turbid harbor
lol
smoky tulip
Rofl
turbid harbor
aggz and maccers
smoky tulip
Aggz, Argz, Covz and Vazza!
calm grail
Okay I can see all of those except the last one
smoky tulip
Vari ๐
calm grail
You play OverWatch at all?
You have all those New Zealand characters like the fat one and the one with bombs
Everybody knows that new zealanders are pretty much Australians
: ^ )
plain thistle
oh boys, its happening , guild tired of raiding and changed our schedule, we will only raid 6h/week and argus only after the nerf ๐ค
not "tired" of raiding, just burned out I guess ๐คท
gaunt moat
i thought you killed him already
turbid harbor
how many hours does it take you to clear the content?
plain thistle
yeah, he is already down
2 weeks ago
hmm, that depends, because we haven't re-killed argus, thats the burned out problem i guess
turbid harbor
it makes no sense for blizzard to wait this long with nerfing bosses
so many guilds have quit because they can't rekill
it's like they don't want 300+ rank guilds to play anymore
plain thistle
the problem is, we are trying with 4-5 new ppl, that never wiped to him, but we just tried him for 1 day, 24 wipes
and it wasnt that bad
turbid harbor
im pretty sure every guild had to reprogress argus after first kill
6 dps and 1 tank left my guild from first kill
after argus died
plain thistle
yeah, I really dont think our 24 wipes was bad, just need to re-progress a little with the new guys, we got a couple 10-20% wipes too
plain thistle
I guess they just want to raid 4h-6h full clear without problem, and not 4-5h wiping to argus every week ๐คท
turbid harbor
that's what everybody wants
but for most guilds to achieve that the boss needs to be nerfed
plain thistle
I dont care about the mount tho, should be happy. but im not, I just want to play ๐
calm grail
I think for a lot of people it's not about farming him, it's just getting the kill and calling it good
With titanforging and other sources of loot is anything that he drops super good?
plain thistle
yeah, they just want to go there, kill it with 1-3 tries, get the mount and "cya, until next week"
for us? probably just the versa/mastery ring
turbid harbor
it's about the mount for most guilds/people
strange python
those unmaker ring ?
calm grail
The mount is ugly as fuck, but it is prestigious.
wise frigate
Real women have 5 creepy faces and skeleton wings.
onyx condor
Is it possible to gold parse without >13% of your damage coming from poison bomb?
turbid harbor
of course
onyx condor
hah im just stuck in the low 90s and high 80s for a lot of pulls
not really sure what to do except pray for poison bomb procs
plain thistle
yeah, totally possible, I got a couple 97-99% with 4%-5% poison bomb
dense blaze
I got a 98 overall on warbreaker with one bomb, fun times
plain thistle
you need better kill times and better gear probably (if you are not 975ish yet)
turbid harbor
i got a 99 on imonar with a 25 second dps stop a couple weeks ago
had to wait for aura mastery
for bridge
onyx condor
974 but yeah i think kill times is probably it, like 2000 world guild so not very fast
turbid harbor
if your kill times are super shit you might be able to fit a 3rd vanish in there
onyx condor
would you save vendetta for 3rd vanish with 3 master assassins?
turbid harbor
if it's your last vendetta cast then yea
which i assume it would be if you're getting a 3rd vanish on the early bosses
usually you do it the other way around though
turbid harbor
those are pretty nasty
dense blaze
That's a long hounds time
onyx condor
yeah looking at US sin rogues the 2 4:30 times on garothi top 10 had >14% bomb time, so ill continue to pray for the bomb gods
bomb damage*
turbid harbor
4:30 is long enough to get 2 juicy vanishes off
yours are in that horrible spot where you'd have to hold stuff
you need your guild to get better or worse ๐
onyx condor
ill let them know haha
onyx condor
damn healers
drifting cloud
and our destro got 90th percentile this week on kg
while being dead for the last minute of the fight.
turbid harbor
i still haven't had a single bomb during cds on an ad on kingaroth
7 kills as sin now
drifting cloud
guy was legit sitting over 2.5mil when he died
like what the fuck
oh r1 for destro is 2.6 there well still was funny
how can you get 90% when youre dead for a minute ๐
oh and today on ahc I got a double bomb during execute vanish but because people were standing fuck knows where
adds didnt spawn on boss
turbid harbor
fervent beacon
I don't bother parsing as sin, OL yes
because there aren't much of OL parses compare to sin 
jolly heart
Doesn't it annoy anyone else that there's an RNG mechanic at the heart of every rogue spec?
turbid harbor
i would play outlaw if my raid had diverse pantheons
but i tried it on dogs once
and golganeth proc did 3% of my dmg
drifting cloud
both together are supposed to be 10+ right
I dont even know what gear id need for outlaw
dense blaze
Sim it
drifting cloud
cba
its outlaw
I havent played it since en
I guess their offpiece is argus chest rest doesnt matter
fervent beacon
You want least mastery and high haste
fervent beacon
Mastery is just terrible overall for Outlaw.
fervent beacon
If you have mantle, you can get away with low crit
dues to restless/true bearing refreshing vanish CD faster than sin/sub
drifting cloud
im like 975+ im sure whatever I have in bags that doesnt have high mastery is gonna be equipped
๐
jolly heart
lol, dude at that ilvl you should be fine
full violet
Is there any theorycrafting for bfa?
drifting cloud
maybe if the spec didnt require totally different gear more than 10 people would play it
drifting cloud
@full violet no, maybe in 3 months
civic palm
drifting cloud
can still come
quick ice
They don't have to announce until restarts actually happen
Having gotten him to 4% last night I'm not sure how I'd feel off he got nerfed though
plain thistle
just want a agg/argus nerf so we can clear easily
plain thistle
because they always nerf bosses? that way more guild can kill it
and guild that are farming can finish it faster
like every tier?
๐ค
void pecan
It's not a question of if they are
onyx falcon
i mean, theres over 650 guilds that have killed Argus already, i see how thats not a long in the grand scheme but its mythic and hard for a reason
void pecan
it's when.
supple hearth
they always nerf it at the very end
onyx falcon
i feel like it isnt needed =/
plain thistle
what do you mean not even 200 killed KJ? ๐ค
onyx falcon
dont rmb the actual number, but KJ was super hard for almsot every guidl to kill took forever for the first kill to even show up
but they didnt nerf it at the end that much
i rly dont see why they would nerf such an easy tier
plain thistle
they always nerf bro, its just a question of when
onyx falcon
idk its just an "imo" i feel like it doesnt need to be nerfed, its the highest difficulty of raiding atm and it should be so
strange python
"The team is constantly looking at encounters and whether or not they need nerfs over time. They try to establish a system in which a raid will nerf itself over time through titanforging or artifact power."
maybe they wont nerf it to check how it works out for bfa :p
grim canopy
when i look at dmg meter and see a monk on top of me i want to FUCKKKKKKKKKKKKKK
fast nacelle
turbid harbor
๐
fast nacelle
@turbid harbor how do you like sub on alpha
turbid harbor
i like it
turbid harbor
if they tune the talents properly and we get to choose based on fight
like dark shadows for vulnerable phases or where burst is needed
and enveloping shadows for tunnelling boss
not just making one better than the other
dire spoke
What du you mean now
turbid harbor
sod on gcd is awful
dire spoke
I was referring to tyra 
fast nacelle
this whole gcd thing is awful
"now" = on alpha
you can mastrubate while clicking all abilities with the other hand
this gcd change is so bad that i actually believe they ll keep it
worst thing i ve encountered in wow
turbid harbor
i don't mind it apart from on sod
i've heard warriors have it worse
but i don't play it so idk
fast nacelle
who doesnt like a gcd after shadowblades
dire spoke
I know you meant in Alpha, it was a joke about myself 
fast nacelle
its fine tho. pvp expansion btw
i mean for pvp the change makes sense but they could also rather put internal cd
in pvp on specific abilities to not stack them
rather than fucking over everything
dire spoke
Stop jinxing more stuff 
fast nacelle
cant become worse
tbh its like you are right handed for 14 years
and they tell you: btw now you need to use your left hand
turbid harbor
at least with shadow blades you can use it one gcd pre pull
symbols just feels horrible to use
probably going to use 2 gcds pre pull on opener
and then on cd after but you need to dump all your energy before
40 energy on use + gcd
fast nacelle
yeah sod one is biggest bullshit
i recorded current live combo and on alpha
it even looks awful
its like you go 5 steps back in terms of gameplay
but pvp btw.. esports btw
pvp expansion.. haHAA
dire spoke
FeelsVanillaMan
civic palm
If the PVPers can get 1 good expansion in 10 years I am fine with taking a little hit in PVE, even though those people are idiots.
prime void
we talking about minigames again ?
wise frigate
Ahay. 8/11 now.
plain thistle
gratz
wise frigate
:D Took 9 pulls. Took longer to fill the raid cause one of our main raiders was MIA randomly.
onyx falcon
๐ GZ ๐
jovial kite
Gz birb
steep obsidian
should be 9/11 soon coven is kinda a joke
easier then heroic in some ways if your raid can cope with an interrupt rotation
wise frigate
Well since it looks like people forgot how heroic works, we might be here a while.
shrewd night
zealous dew
80 - 12 - 12
solar willow
Progressing argus this week. How many pulls did it take you guys for kill
dire spoke
took 200-500 from what I heard
shrewd night
I reprogressed with a guild that already killed it, so my numbers dont really apply.
But we were 1/3 trials for the reprogression and we spent two weeks, where we would have gotten in like.. 80-100 tries.
urban blaze
we've just passwed the 200 mark and we're hitting p3
solar willow
We wiped on our 267 pull on 0% and i was 2.2m dps which would be 96 log but on our actual kill i died and had 34 log ๐
solar willow
We wiped on our 267 pull on 0% and i was 2.2m dps which would be 96 log but on our actual kill i died and had 34 log ๐
shrewd night
feel
Everything was going good, so fucking good
Then I died to some stupid shit
30-40 seconds until ressed
Dumpsterlog at 34
Lesson for the masses: Dont be bad
solar willow
Died to a very weird foe braker. I dodged the way thetank was going
shrewd night
Oh, I died from chain and rage combo
Which I should have cloaked
But Im a dumbass
solar willow
I see.. we share similar stories on different bosses ๐
solar willow
Yeh argus doesnt do foe braker fortunately
solar willow
Because of the damage
strange python
when I have the resources i.e. combo points and energy, do I aim to refresh the 10% poison dmg buff when it falls off or do I wait for the envenom to fall of to refresh both? I feel like I should wait for the envenom to fall off and refresh both unless I have kingsbane or poison bomb up but idk.
dire spoke
You wait to clip at 0.1s at any time, except you're capping energy
zealous dew
jovial kite
strange python
@dire spoke refresh envenom or poisong dmg?
if I have both and envenom has a longer duration
which happens often and is what I'm wondering about
shrewd night
dire spoke
One does pandemic, the other does not. It's completely situational which poison drops first - If you track your poisons, just envenom(finisher) if one of them falls off outside of CD uptimes
why not have 100% if you can is what I want to say
If your rotation is stressed, just clip envenom(buff)
Some ppl play around tier poison even, you need to find out what your current setup is capable of
reef axle
how is sin looking on alpha?
gaunt moat
Alpha is subject to change and currently still work in progress, a lot of things are missing or are not balanced yet. Therefore avoid questions like: What spec is best on alpha? thanks you.```You know it's fuu's quote when there is charming typo
warm parcel
Assa looks like a lvl 10 spec
shrewd night
thanks you
dire spoke
Better play sub with your guitarhero-guitar
dire spoke
oh yeah 
being useful on fortified trash for 5s and then starve
vestal wren
ye things can change quick, i hope rtb will see some changes
ashen ibex
The WA for the legendary shoulder didn't work on me.. how can I fix it?
shrewd night
What do you mean didnt work for you
dire spoke
Maybe it's not written with spell ID so it tries to track an english buff in a client using a different language than EN
?
ashen ibex
I think so zempai, how can I fix it?
shrewd night
What language client do you use?
vestal wren
issue could be that the wa uses a name instead of a spellid
i try to use spellid if wa allowed it (tho the wa is not from me)
ashen ibex
Italian
vestal wren
you can fix it by replacing the spell name with either the italian one or the spell id
dire spoke
you need to click on the weakaura and open up the 'Triggers' tab
gritty rain
yo bois i've seen a couple rogues with smoldering trinket in dala. is it used for like m+ or something or are the just showing off that they have a mythic one?
stark heart
@warm parcel tbf right now on alpha all specs feel that way probably
ashen ibex
Thanks a lot guys
stark heart
stark heart
well yeah it feels that way
vestal wren
on the bright side you still have poison bomb ๐
stark heart
it's not bright side
gaunt moat
for sin it's "drastic" cause there's no mechanic you really "play around"
with outlaw there's still RtB.. and sub is... sub headache.
gaunt moat
by rerolling
vestal wren
sub needs more mechanics to play around
stark heart
which doesn't exist anymore? 
vestal wren
i agree
stark heart
rerolling is really bad gameplay even if it exists
gaunt moat
yeah i'm not arguing about that
vestal wren
rerolling is fine if the impact is high enough
gaunt moat
i'm just saying that outlaw has some mechanic to play around
while sin does not
vestal wren
you need to maintain dots -> there you have one
stark heart
it's not rewarding, it's pure gamble and it feels bad
gaunt moat
that's not really what i was trying to talk about :x
stark heart
now you mix having maintenance and rerolling it
I get your point @gaunt moat although I don't think Outlaw has much if you don't AoE
(azerite might be savior here, like we saw bracers effect there)
marble hemlock
i mean, havent most classes just devolved into a "keep debuffs/buffs up, with a priority, use CDs on CD" kind of gameplay?
gaunt moat
outlaw is the "AoE" spec now though from the way it looks
stark heart
it is but on AoE you kinda busy with Assa as well
marble hemlock
so combat at least has something going for it :x
stark heart
at least I picked CT for dungeon and it was okay
yeah keeping rups and CT
and garrote
gaunt moat
i wonder if it's worth more to just CT and envenom
marble hemlock
most likely
stark heart
I haven't done any research on that and numbers jump every build
so it's pointless to dive into that now
gaunt moat
yeah ofcourse didn't expect you to have an answer
marble hemlock
since you want to keep up the envenom buff for higher poison application rate
stark heart
I would hope that garroting is worth it
but if target won't live 5 cp duration - don't bother
vestal wren
spread all the dots ๐
gaunt moat
probably with subterfuge garrote worth it
stark heart
so you garrote on cd new target, keep ct, keep 1 rupture and envenom
that is what I did in dungeon
but it's pure guess at this moment of course
gaunt moat
what do you think about my suggestion, that rupture gets "extra bonus" on 4+ CPs?
stark heart
when I was on packs it was fun, on boss it was rather boring
I kept forgetting about tb on packs and didn't miss it
marble hemlock
@gaunt moat you mean like the pre 7.2 rupture?
stark heart
probably can even abandon it ๐
marble hemlock
that had better ap scaling for each additional CP used?
or was it 7.1.5? cant remember
stark heart
that was kanker, please no
gaunt moat
@marble hemlock somewhat. but that was just more damage. i mean actual extra bonus.
quick ice
Pretty sure it was 1,5
marble hemlock
bonus like what?
stark heart
why rupture needs it?
marble hemlock
that wouldve had to be baked into an azurite talent or smth, baseline i dont think this would work
stark heart
what are you trying to do with some bonus tied to rupture?
gaunt moat
probably not a great reason... but so that people will understand to use it on 4+ CPs
marble hemlock
im guessing so that multi-rupturing for aoe becomes valid again from a damage perspective
gaunt moat
yes, but it's not obvious to people
stark heart
not everything should be obvious
marble hemlock
were not playing the same game then, cause thats where things have been heading for the last 3years
id prefer something akin to windwalker hitcombo
gaunt moat
also i think exsanguinate should be changed
since there is no BotA, and haste affects tick rate anyway
marble hemlock
for every 5cp finisher used, you get a stacking damage buff, like 2% or smth, stacking up to 5 times
gaunt moat
and you can't align every exsang with vendetta
shrewd night
also i think exsanguinate should be changed
Blizzard heard you, removed next patch
gaunt moat
i think it should either bleed out the damage instantly. or make it faster than 100%. or not change duratrion at all, but make the rupture deal more damage.
stark heart
and yeah I feel so as well that exsang doesn't really have a place in a world with hasted bleeds
marble hemlock
could just be a buff to bleed-damage
on yourself
scaling with the amount of ruptures/garrotes you have applied
so it'd be stronger for aoe too if you have like 4 ruptures ticking
warm parcel
No
gaunt moat
Hmm. That talent tier is not meant for aoe.
warm parcel
Ye
marble hemlock
make it a singletarget debuff then
warm parcel
Dmg % is boring as fuck
stark heart
^
marble hemlock
so is faster tickrate
warm parcel
No
marble hemlock
when its already scaling with haste
stark heart
nah
gaunt moat
Well what do you call TB :p
stark heart
faster tick rate gives you more energy
warm parcel
It directรถy affects gameplay
restive inlet
I like exsang. Wont hasted bleeds just make it more powerful? haste makes you get more tics over the same duration no?
stark heart
tb is boring and I want kb in its place
warm parcel
Tb is something I didnt ask for but also wasnt our topic
stark heart
think I said that not once
restive inlet
I'm not on the alpha yet, so can't fuck around with it:(
shrewd night
Thinking that blizzard will fix it 
warm parcel
We dont even know how exsang is supposed to act
marble hemlock
similar to the elisande bubble, no?
warm parcel
Uuh
shrewd night
theyll just scuff it like they did AP
restive inlet
no, not similar to elisande bubble at all
stark heart
it does non trivial calcualtions
marble hemlock
i mean thats how i expect it to work with haste scaling dots
stark heart
which involves rounding of tick numbers
gaunt moat
Change exsabg to hemo? ๐
restive inlet
god no
viscid helm
Exsang and TB should both be removed
stark heart
๐
marble hemlock
hit me up in DM
viscid helm
Garbage tier talents
marble hemlock
@stark heart
restive inlet
I want to be a poison boy again. gonna see if the bot cooperates
stark heart
Exsang could just say "every tick does damage twice"
now you have double energy
not gutted bleed
and probably easier to code
gaunt moat
@viscid helm can always choose alac... Oh.
stark heart
@marble hemlock let me find it
restive inlet
alacrity xd
restive inlet
Notter, can you make me a poison boy? the bot didn't respond to me
prisma gull
I wanna go back to wotlk with snd. Have autoattacks and poisons be top dmg lol
marble hemlock
youre not toxic enough to be a poison boy i guess
gaunt moat
Yes. When i get on pc in a few min
stark heart
god I post too much
restive inlet
ty!
shrewd night
dw lorentz, I tried to find a post I did, the search window was spaghettios
marble hemlock
you know, i always complained about rogue being like 80% auto-damage that you get by just keeping up buffs/debuffs, but somehow this is worse
warm parcel
I still love seal fate
somber cipher
solid nova
Why.
warm parcel
To me exsang feels like it increases your rupture casts nicely.
So double ticks like that wouldnt feel as "cool" imo @stark heart
Loke the idea of exsang is to fit 90 sec of rup into 60 sec
And this change kind of removes that feel
warm parcel
They can easily..
restive inlet
it has been very problematic for them to balance it. it's either been very strong, or unviable since its conception. this patch they made it work though, ish
warm parcel
What
Exsang has been good in en tov tos and now
Only in nh was it outshined by ago
restive inlet
en for the beginning and certain bosses. ToV was all about agonizing? ToS and Antorus, probably yeah
warm parcel
And the lorentz comment wasnt about balance.
It was about exsang being spaghetti
viscid helm
People played exsang in tov
warm parcel
Like helya proge wasnt smart as ago
You swapped a lot
Guarm sure
And after all guldaddy was better as nonago
gaunt moat
!ban @somber cipher trolling
chrome tuskBOT
@somber cipher did 'trolling' and got the ban hammer! 
restive inlet
yeah, I guess
marble hemlock
yeah, couldnt really play AP on odyn/guarm
well, you could on odyn, but you lost p1/p2 damage
warm parcel
Odyn was okay as ago ye
restive inlet
Odyn was OK for AP tbh.
marble hemlock
was fine for p3
restive inlet
P1 too. it lasted for ages back then
marble hemlock
sometimes dropped during the other ones, and ramp-up on the adds was a pain in the ass whereas exsang lined up nicely for hymdall/hyrja
warm parcel
Never happened btw
viscid helm
Excuses
warm parcel
Just excuses
viscid helm
For being shit
warm parcel
marble hemlock
only happened when people soaked right on the spawn and it kept travelling because of it
"soaked"
shrewd night
I remember the good old days
when we had to walk uphill in three meters of snow to get to the right starsign on starboi
marble hemlock
thats not the good old days
the good old days was half the mobs in MC being immune to poisons because all elementals were immune to nature-damage
and all undead immune to bleeds, made naxx really fun too
warm parcel
Auraslots on targets
shrewd night
Knock a warrior out of stance so he needed GM intervention
shrewd night
WAIT THREE SUNDERS YA CUCKS
marble hemlock
fun times
could troll the tanks
by doing a quick 3cp expose armor, so their sunder wouldnt get applied because "stronger debuff already on the mob"
viscid helm
Give me vanilla already so i dont need to play 
BFA
marble hemlock
remember the times when mobs had different armour values?
like the trash in front of gehennas that had 0 armour
โค
shrewd night
I remember the times when I had to warlock tank shit
marble hemlock
and now we got
shrewd night
Spamming searing pain in full fire-res gear
shrewd night
(t)roll the bones
marble hemlock
just did eoa and stormsinger fulmination charge dropped on 940 for the healer, but didnt want to trade ๐ฆ
kms
lethal heart
fulmination is one juicy trinket
shrewd night
lethal heart
it's like 990 per stack at 940
prisma gull
I'd love to get a 40 man raid eve. Though it'd probably be utter chaos.
lethal heart
i'd have to upgrade my pc
for 40 mans
xd
even on 30 man pugs i'm afraid for my poor pc
prisma gull
Not if they revert to classic graphics :D
prisma gull
Yes and no lol, because I know leveling is a massive pain, so I'll probably drop out after a month haha. But like I said, I never raided, I was lol 57 when tbc came out :)
shrewd night
I dont have the confidence that blizzard can launch classic without getting massive blowback
a) its going to be shit, because vanilla was shit
b) or its going to be optimized, but people wont recognize it as vanilla
light jacinth
๐ฅ