you're not that bad off
#assassination
solid field
patent topaz
Cruck, more like Cuck, am I right?
hoary copper
You can get 2 if you work hard
strange python
Get 2 a week you mean
vocal roost
Im pretty sure getting a bis one by mistake
will make me get the good ones for assa a pain
solid field
I mean, one for sure, you can only get like 1250 or so essence, unless math is too hard for me
hoary copper
Essence + drop
If you do current raid tier, m+, wq (which you should for essences), invasions, rare mobs in argus etc
hoary copper
Probably
solid field
will have enough essence to pop a token tonight.
hoary copper
Oh I think I got enough last night. spose I should get that. prob get sephuz or prydaz
solid field
at least I'l just have wrists and gloves left for sub..
vocal roost
getting into a pug group for antorus normal is retarded
strange python
😦
vocal roost
how am I getting declined on "930+ fresh" as a 954.
strange python
Make your own
solid field
because ilvl isn't the end all be all?
median marsh
have you tried making your own @vocal roost? you'll see why
if everyone is applying with 965, why should they invite you
median marsh
they are not expecting it or w/e
median marsh
and that too ^
vocal roost
that's not fair
keen inlet
@Bodock#2953 that's not so bad as sin. You can go helm/wrists, boots/wrists, helm/boots etc
hmmm 🤔
vocal roost
but well, that's what ilvl and retarded scaling does to the game
fair rain
🤔
strange python
Not really
that's what being a dps with only 954 does
Queue as 954 healer get insta invite 😃
solid field
Yea, I'm content with my legos. I just want to play with the shoulders.
calm grail
Just have a 970 + item level, no one will ever reject you
vocal roost
and I never intended to go over hc
keen inlet
shoulders are blessing and curse
median marsh
get a bad guild then
keen inlet
I don't like the emphasis on stealth outside of Sub spec
vocal roost
tbh
keen inlet
y'all two
vocal roost
give me a guild that clears normal + hc in 2 days every week
keen inlet
go make out
and ease this tension
we're all over here watching like "damn that's palpable"
solid field
I hadn't played since NH and just coming back.. I'm so far behind.. only 924.. lol Thank goodness it's not hard to get gear now.
gaunt moat
i like it when they say utility abilities should not serve as DPS cooldown...
keen inlet
could cut it with a 
"One shot mechanics are poor design, we don't want to use those more than rarely at most"
Mmhmm
vocal roost
lmao
keen inlet
that was back in Cata btw
strange python
Gives me KJBW to not have to worry about oneshotting anything
keen inlet
never forget that one
wait
how'd you fry the onboard
oh, rip
Ulduar's a toughie
probably.
Hmm
external not an option?
like high ends are out of the question
but lower ends are still cheap
even my 5-year old radeon slays mid-setting wow
could get equiv for ~$150, less used now
I feel ya on $$ tho.
Trolling craigslist for a used dishwasher
and it wasn't surge related?
lone junco
🚪
strange python
mfw 20+% haste
solid field
I only have like 2% haste, but 10% vers
stark heart
@gaunt moat to be fair what else would you use vanish for?
gaunt moat
@stark heart not pay repair bills
shrewd oriole
with tier alone you have like 5%
stark heart
stealth is a tool of every rogue so it's fine we can use in combat stealth for damage imo
it's kinda hard to allow rogues use stealth in combat anyway
shrewd oriole
you'll most likely have an argus ring so that's like another 3%
gaunt moat
i'd rather that the damage buffs were baked into vanish then instead of splitting it with talents
and then make more intresting talents
manic vigil
is my discord acting up again? Who is Don talking to in that picture?
gaunt moat
if they want it to be used for damage, it should not be pure utility
stark heart
I see your point
strange python
He’s talking to himself
hoary copper
@manic vigil I think it was Noobe, who deleted stuff?
manic vigil
Ah okay
shrewd oriole
@quick talon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdvOq-6Oub4 found this for you
manic vigil
Thanks. Made me fucking paranoid
manic vigil
:monkaS:
strange python
!wa
gaunt moat
bot is dead
crystal fox
!trinkets
chrome tuskBOT
List of trinkets for each spec: http://tc.ravenholdt.net/
crystal fox
is he?
gaunt moat
but is alive
manic vigil
Fake news notter strikes again 
keen inlet
@manic vigil I was talking to Noobe, you didn't see most of what he wrote
I think he's having a bad day
which, granted, fried mobo will do that
reef stump
Is Wow analyzer a thing for sin rogues?
reef stump
I meant the wow analyzer log website
hoary copper
Still nope
reef stump
Was wondering how accurate it id
hoary copper
Doesnt support sin
reef stump
Ahh, thanks
warm wigeon
This might be a stupid question, but here it comes. Is it worth doing Fan of Knives as opening from stealth if u have 30 stacks from the legendary back and the nightstalker talent?
solid field
I still think gar, vanish into rupture would benefit more dps
unless its an aoe pull..
solid field
try it out on a dummy???
warm wigeon
Will do 😃
desert vault
how many stacks of KB should be reached in a typical cast of KB, 16+ or something?
solid field
I usually see 19-20.. I'm not even sure if that's good
desert vault
Yeah I see 18-23 usually
Also want to rupture or envenom and 5s or less on KB still right?
solid field
Yea, 4.9 and lower you want to try and keep up SoT
desert vault
Rupture doesn't put a SoT up does it? My Weak Aura shows a SoT timer when I use Rupture, but I thought during KB you wanted to Envenom for the SoT, not Rupture
solid field
yea any finisher does
desert vault
Oh ok, so doesn't matter. Got it.
desert vault
but the envenom buff isn't what you need to clip right? it is the SoT timer to watch?
quick talon
what is this white invasion
desert vault
SoT is 5s and the Envenom debuff is 6s right?
quick talon
bad habit
quick talon
there is no envenom debuff
also the envenom BUFF uptime depends if youre clipping your old buff
pandemic stuff you know
solid field
What is pandemics, precious?
prime void
Read guide
desert vault
I guess I'm confused with the Envenom buff vs SoT. I always watch my SoT timer and try to keep it from falling off as best I can
solid field
I was jk...
prime void
Ideally you want to keep both SoT and envenom up.
And refreshing envenom <1sec for pandemic.
Wow im sorry I couldnt tell you were jk over text...
desert vault
I guess in my head if I keep SoT up which is 5s, that will in turn keep up Envenom which in my WA shows 6s
keen inlet
there Mizu goes being helpful again
prime void
Envenom time changes based off cp used
quick talon
just dont be helpful. You gotta balance it
like riff did back then
Troll comments that always contained some truth
tranquil birch
For the 29th time this week SoT doesn't buff KB and you want to clip envenom when possible
gaunt moat
🗡
desert vault
I have WA that is labeled VirulentPoison ... wonder what the crap that is 😐
calm grail
When do I
calm grail
I was watching that video from announcements about haste.
prime void
Pretty sure SoT does buff KB tho
tranquil birch
Does not
calm grail
The whole bleeds ticking faster giving you more venomous wounds didn't really occur to me, that sounds pretty sick.
prime void
Proof?
tranquil birch
Sec
calm grail
I'm curious to see once all the numbers are crunched in the theory Crafters have come up with their stuff further into beta if Haste becomes "good".
And the*
desert vault
And with TB, it is best to cast with 1-2 CP and 3-4 CP? Does it matter really? And better to envenom > TB or TB > envenom?
calm grail
Spam it.
prime void
Dont TB at 4.
tranquil birch
http://www.wowhead.com/spell=192425/surge-of-toxins check the effected spell list
prime void
Aight I give up for tonight
calm grail
😀
prime void
Meh ill test later- a spell list doesnt work for me
tranquil birch
Like it wont open or you don't believe it?
prime void
Dont believe it😐
tranquil birch
It's been confirmed by the tc people as well. Dont have source because I don't remember when it was first said, but yea. You're welcome to go test if you want
desert vault
So TB 1-3 CP and does it batter before or after Envenom better for TB?
tranquil birch
What's far more important than either of those things is that you pool energy for tb
calm grail
Do you think it is worth agonizing about what race you play when determining DPS differentials? I assume one bit of RNG could make up the difference between racials or break it.
worn violet
void elf is absolutely OP with shoulders right now
desert vault
Ok, so you do want to pool a little before TB? Everyone tells me screw pooling energy with Sin nowadays
calm grail
Like I went from Human to emo elf (I know dumb idea) because the racial looked hot.
tranquil birch
NO Sin is ALL about pooling
desert vault
I know it used be, back in NH, but my friend who consistently beats me on DPS tells me just waste everything on CD. Which goes against what I was used to doing with Sin previously.
tranquil birch
Your friend is extremely wrong
Pool as much as possible for tb and kb. This is so you get more deadly poison applications in those windows
desert vault
I'm just trying to get myself target numbers for energy, like before Vanish make sure I have a min of 100 lets say, before KB make sure I've 80, etc
calm grail
On raidbots what line do I put in if I wanted to pretend my character was a human
prime void
@tranquil birch https://github.com/Ravenholdt-TC/Rogue/issues/59
keen inlet
@calm grail I think the only thing that is important with regard to racials is that nightborne is horrendous for rogue, across the board
prime void
Also, why pool for tb?
desert vault
What kind of energy should you have before casting KB? 100, 120?
keen inlet
depends but you really don't want to hold off too long, usually
calm grail
Don, do you know the line to make raidbots compare x race va x race
keen inlet
might cost yourself another KB down the line
calm grail
Vs*
desert vault
Right, I normally go for at least 100 most of the time
keen inlet
No Nira, but on herodamage they did race comparisons
calm grail
I know, I read those, but I know things can change with gear, so I'm just curious what the actual simulated difference is.
keen inlet
the only rogue spec that nightborne does moderately well on is sin poison. For the rest, tehy are solidly (strongly) last
desert vault
I'm sim a good bit higher on human than anything else, even void elf
keen inlet
I'm unsure--but again, the delta is so large
most of the other races are fairly close together
tranquil birch
Kb buffed by sot i guess, cool. Still want to just worry about env clipping regardless
calm grail
I generally pool for shadowstep
tranquil birch
Lol
prime void
I still wanted to hear the reasoning behind pooling for tb xD
calm grail
There is none.
desert vault
do you want to have SoT up before casting TB or does it not matter?
keen inlet
simple: they missed the months of TBonCD memes
prime void
😂
tranquil birch
You get more dp applications in the 9s window
You don't hold it... you pre pool..
calm grail
The only time I really pool is for my kingsbane or my Vendetta and vanish combo. And then just general planning based on what is happening m
But with Kingsbane, you don't wait till it's up to pool, you keep an eye on the cool down and pool ahead of time.
desert vault
right, i try to stop when it has about 4-5s left on CD
calm grail
Just make sure you have Garrote and Rupture all taken care of ahead of time if possible.
Losing in the Venom of a time because of refreshing rupture kind of sucks.
Losing Envenom*
desert vault
Casting a Rupture during KB is ok isn't it? Still gets SoT applied?
prime void
Im confused on how you would get more dp apps from pooling
stark heart
@keen inlet we thought it's impossible to make race worse than undead output wise. We were so wrong
tranquil birch
More energy = more mut spam = more env uptime
calm grail
Yeah it's okay if you have to Elinkar. I think letting rupture fall off is the greater of two evils, but I'm just saying ideally you want to try to have it set ahead of time.
desert vault
@calm grail I'm still confused between the Envenom buff and SoT, they are different correct? You want to focus on clipping the Envenom during KB or clipping the SoT during KB?
tranquil birch
Especially now that all muts deal some poison damage on top of the dp application chance
keen inlet
@stark heart hah right
calm grail
If you Envenom appropriately, pretty much line up with each other, you really don't need to watch surge.
keen inlet
I was kinda astounded, I thought it would be stronger for poison sin
but instead it just bumps nightborne up to like middle-of-the-road
and still inferior to belf
desert vault
I have SoT in front of the Envenom tracker in my WA, well I just the Ipse's WA with very minor modifications
prime void
I mean you shouldn't be dropping envenom just from having to tb
No need to pool when youre envenoming around once every 5 seconds
tranquil birch
Thats not what the main issue is
midnight latch
👀
quick talon
🤔
hoary copper
race="troll"
copy=dwarf
race="dwarf"
copy=human
race="human"
copy=nightborne
race="nightborne"
copy=voidelf
race="void_elf"
copy=gnome
race="gnome"
copy=goblin
race="goblin"
copy=pandaren
race="pandaren"
copy=undead
race="forsaken"
copy=nightelfDay
race="night_elf"
timeofday=day
copy=nightelfNight
race="night_elf"
timeofday=night
copy=lightforged draenei
race="lightforged_draenei"
copy=draenei
race="draenei"
copy=worgen
race="worgen"
copy=orc
race="orc"
copy=bloodelf
race="blood_elf"```feelycraft aside
hoary copper
Thats what you want for races in raidbots @calm grail
keen inlet
at least not in the current tier
and
🏆 for you, @hoary copper
look at you helpful users
hoary copper
Some days. Have to do something between memes
keen inlet
I am well pleased.
calm grail
Draenei
void pecan
kek
ivory leaf
Lol
solar fog
Do you guys use any addons to get tracks of dots?
hoary copper
You can sim it with what I just posted @ivory leaf
solar fog
on multiple targets i mean
keen inlet
for sin?
ivory leaf
I cant sim atm
stark heart
What am I missing?
keen inlet
iirc it's human/dorf alliance, belf horde
ivory leaf
Cool im human
ivory leaf
Unless u identify as something else
quick talon
gotta reroll in that case
hoary copper
Im waiting to see how Survival pans out to see if I use my 110 boost on hunter
magic zenith
^
hoary copper
I only have hunter, DK, Warrior and DH that arent 110 so idk
hoary copper
Yea he's at 102 I'm just unmotivated by pressing like 3 buttons
strange python
Go memebuild and have 4 buttons
strange python
Leggo toks?
calm grail
Silly question, but is there a common or acceptable virulent poison buff uptimr
Time*
hoary copper
Gl. Went ww and got chest for first leggo
jovial kite
yeah leggotokens
ivory leaf
I just hope survival is t aids to play in bfa
strange python
I reroll before tokens drop :>>
hoary copper
I liked the gameplay I saw which obviously could change a lot but the idea of having to go in and out of melee is kinda neat
harpoon in, do debuffs and whatever then disengage out for the eagle thing and kill command
ivory leaf
I think that it needs to be on the target too much
hoary copper
I dislike managing pets unless its a drop and forget kinda thing but we'll see I guess
I wouldn't mind DK but they're soooo slow
keen inlet
I feel like
BM might get some more work
with all the pet focus
I am wondering what MM/Surv will do pets-wise
like if they're going to make hunter 99% about pets again
this seems like a lot of time to spend on pets if only BM cares
hoary copper
I wish MM was the spec that didn't need pets
hoary copper
(see this is why we need an alpha channel)
Not sure, I havent really looked too much
prime void
Solid update :(
keen inlet
current spec chat is relatively dead and will be until BFA anyway
keen inlet
aside from usual meme questions, check pins, sim, etc
so we can just chat alpha here.
or w/e
prime void
Eyyy
sharp nova
question, does it happen to anyone else that in big group of mobs fok hit all of them (applies poions debuff) but gives only 1-2 cps instead of all 5?
lean hill
Master did you waste your fresh spec BLP
hoary copper
Okalydokaly
keen inlet
@sharp nova It does to me
lean hill
Those tokens eat up the extra BLP on your first legendaries, gotta loot one or 2 and then open them
sharp nova
i rerolled from sub and at first i thought range was smaller, but it's the same, 10yards
and then i noticed in applies debuff but doesnt award cp and i cant think of reason why @keen inlet
it leads to significant dps loss in aoe in my opinion due to less envenoms - less poison bomb proc chance
prime void
Fok for sub and sin dont work the same
keen inlet
^^
prime void
Go read sin fok and passives
keen inlet
the idea is basically for sub you proc cps off SS and boost ST dmg.
For sin you proc DP apps and multi-dotting
that's why ppl say sub is better in much of M+
sin is long-game dps
oversimplifying it but w/e
prime void
And sub is BOOM bOOM big consistent damage without ramp or much rng
sharp nova
yea im aware of that, im still running sub in m+ while sin for raids
quick talon
[200IQ]
but for upper kara as example im going with sin and i noticed that during worms mobs fight
sharp nova
and yes, I read the passives, but still fok sometimes gives me 5 and sometimes 1, thats why im confused
fair rain
Smh my head
fair rain
Good explanation
keen inlet
you did all you could
prime void
Hence why if you run shoulders you get 5cp
keen inlet
shhhhhhh pap pap pap pap pap
jovial kite
@lean hill doesnt affect blp
hoary copper
Second today Miz
prime void
Yet baited so far
hoary copper
striking out
sharp nova
got it now, sorry for not knowing everything and comming on rogue discord looking for answers lel
sharp nova
wow the toxicity, rather dont try to explain if you cant handle it lul
hoary copper
You might as well be the Detroit Tigers with that record Miz >.>
keen inlet
Yo Val
i have a gentle suggestion for you
That's not just rogue discord, that's all discords.
i wrote a guide to help you avoid "toxicity"
hoary copper
If only there were guides to explain...
keen inlet
😃
keen inlet
although I didn't explicitly say "read the skill entries in your spellbook" that's meant to be implied by the "check the guides first". as in, read the in-game stuff, then check the guides.
Not just yours, but 99% of questions on discord could be answered by doing that
thanks!
quick talon
wow
keen inlet
👍
hoary copper
Living up to AMR stats
keen inlet
AMR runs a website that automatically gives 'answers,' they have the luxury of not having to deal with the community directly 😉
Turns out if you do that daily you end up dealing with a lot of, well, everything
lean hill
@jovial kite essence legendaries do not. Token legendaries do
prime void
After perusing that guide senor. Which class discord do you find legitimately toxic mr.Jose?
hoary copper
DH is prob one of the worst ones
quick talon
DH got 2 class discords
hoary copper
Do they? I only knew Fel Hammer
prime void
Yes
keen inlet
and that's because it tries to be toxic
gaunt moat
@keen inlet they also got a discord though.
And they have to deal with paying costumers.
keen inlet
Tankchat. lol
that's "their thing"
I don't think any other discords are truly "toxic"
but I have a thick skin!
prime void
I hated feral disc personally
keen inlet
If anything
many other discords are way, way stricter than us
and I think that cuts out most of the fun
and community
prime void
Feral channel *
quick talon
hoary copper
I didnt mind feral, I was there a lot. There were certain people that were quite annoying coughhippocough
quick talon
even tho Mardum isnt as popular
prime void
Yup
quick talon
its still 25k members
prime void
@hoary copper it was really just a couple people
quick talon
iirc Kib made fel hammer after leaving mardum
prime void
Shit logs big egos
gaunt moat
You want a bfa channel?
keen inlet
oh what's the drama there, like which one is better
I think I'm in fel hammer
(for info, idc about 'toxicity')
quick talon
I dont know, really
I think kib made fel hammer because mardum is very strict (no fun allowed)
keen inlet
ah
gaunt moat
Fun fact, giggle is a mod on mardum
prime void
:0
hoary copper
It's hard to keep up with discords, people get anxty and dont like how something is run and it splinters off. Resto shaman did that too because of Blink.
gaunt moat
Well RH has some off-shoots.
But they're small
quick talon
nerds
ivory leaf
I asked one question for a friend in fel hammer and 50 people started comming at my neck cuz im outlaw lol
outer temple
Outlaw? KYS.
desert vault
Human's don't have any special racials like Shadowmeld or anything right? Nothing that is a 'use' racial? Just the passive 2% thing?
quick talon
Is it worth answering if the friend cant even ask on his own?
gaunt moat
@desert vault they have an ability to break stuns
strange python
is there ever an instance where i should unironically use wound poison?
shrewd oriole
even fuu...
keen inlet
there's at least 5 offshoots of RH to my knowledge
although three of them are basically dead
hoary copper
RH?
gaunt moat
5?
I know of only 2
gaunt moat
Now i'm feeling left out
desert vault
@gaunt moat does the 2% stat increase not show up in the character window?
quick talon
confirmed AMR spy
keen inlet
I end the enemies of RH by infiltrating and befriending them
vestal wren
wait, why can i rezize bfa in window mode to be this big
desert vault
Hmm, weird. I thought was 203 with nelf and just changed to human and its still 203 ...
shrewd oriole
Nice mobile game fuu
keen inlet
fuu
desert vault
maybe I was 201 😃
keen inlet
is that actual size
quick talon
indeed
vestal wren
yes
quick talon
iPad port when ?
vestal wren
this is minimum i can resize it to
quick talon
Damn..
vestal wren
i guess its gamepoy port
quick talon
not gonna lie
near wigeon
Hi Guys , Has Someone an Weakaura for Saying POISEN BOMB ? Cant find one
quick talon
i'd love a ps4 port
shrewd oriole
There's one in the guide phil
prime void
You could learn how to make one phil and learn a lot about weakauras in the process!
near wigeon
oh rly ? i look closer xD
quick talon
its part of notters WA-set
vestal wren
better design ui's that work with relative positions
quick talon
median marsh
I wasn't expecting that to sim higher :/
quick talon
what is this ?
keen inlet
Weak has experimented a lot with Anticipation
quick talon
this so fucking small
median marsh
ok, thanks
keen inlet
man
quick talon
wtfff
midnight latch
what is that
dire spoke
That's how our tank must have played vari yesterday
midnight latch
are you playing on your phone?
prime void
😂
dire spoke
OHH I taunted
keen inlet
@light wing was showing me his new massive monitor, his resolution is like 3k by 1k, and his field of view is massive, curves things so he can see beyond 180 degrees
i got really jelly
keen inlet
like he stands in underbelly and can see 80% of the treasure room at once
would take some getting used to
quick talon
Sooo
Secret of Mana remake tmrw
I remember having alot of fun in the coop version
🤔
keen inlet
i've been playing it on my picade
lean hill
Remake? Or the same game spruced up
keen inlet
(original)
it's more or less a remake
I mean it's 3d (top down 2.5d to be fair)
original writing etc tho
afaik
lean hill
I'll have to look into it, definitely one of my favourite games growing up
quick talon
I can imagine it being really fun
lean hill
Oh gross its got the cartoony FF remake type people
dire spoke
looks like ragnarok
quick talon
with a friend atleast
keen inlet
original was great, right up there with Chrono Trigger
quick talon
Don
lean hill
If I'm playing the same game I'll stick to my old snes graphics
keen inlet
tbh I'd love a remake of Star Ocean 2 though. That game was insanely good, I sunk 100's of hours into the crafting and the secret sidequests, town RP etc
@quick talon idk, check website. Might depend on platform. it's steam/ps/vita
prime void
I feel too young 😂😂 these are all games I watched my brother play when I was super young
vestal wren
@keen inlet secret of mana, i still have the original + console at home
hoary copper
Man I loved Secret of Mana
lean hill
I stepped on my snes when I was drunk
manic vigil
Let the old shit rest in peace man
keen inlet
http://starocean.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Ocean:_The_Second_Story get your hands on a used* copy. Legit one of the greatest, deepest JRPGs ever to make it global
manic vigil
Stupid nostalgia
lean hill
Nostalgia makes money though
hoary copper
I see Secret of Mana on steam btw @quick talon according to google anyway. Can't get to anything "game related" at work
manic vigil
Sure does @lean hill
quick talon
yea but infos on steam are shady
The store page says it has "multiplayer" and "local co-op"
but i feel like remembering it doesnt support online coop
lean hill
If only us fools realized the nostalgic feeling comes from the experience at the time, not the game itself
hoary copper
You mean like Vanilla @lean hill
lean hill
Yes exactly like vanilla
quick talon
Vanilla is probably part of this, yea
unreal coyote
seiken densetsu
lean hill
I think I want to play it but I know I'll hate it
dire spoke
hello kitty adventure ❤
unreal coyote
SD3 is easily the best of the mana series
lean hill
Yo evermore is the best... lol
unreal coyote
...
quick talon
easy answer is: yes
unreal coyote
cant tell if troll
quick talon
there are some expections tho
strange python
😄
quick talon
🤷🏿
hoary copper
@prime void Maybe you should answer that one since you're 0-2
prime void
Oi mate time to go for three
lean hill
@unreal coyote definitely troll.... I don't think I played through evermore entirely lol
prime void
Mantle is bis in the majority of situations;however, there are fights especially for sin(talking about ABT) where shoulders arent bis
strange python
guys do u have dps tips for ulduar timewalking?
prime void
Yeah
manic vigil
Stick em with the pointy end
prime void
What days
manic vigil
Yeah I liked it as well
unreal coyote
the " no no no NO NO NO!!!!!!" days
manic vigil
Still won't do fucking nostalgia crap
hoary copper
I'll do the dungeons for the quick cache but the raids seem too long and people make them too difficult to be worth it
prime void
^
unreal coyote
wrath dungeons sucked dick
hoary copper
I forgot how much trash there was for the BC ones. Dont remember the wolk ones
cthun trash was so much fun
unreal coyote
false
manic vigil
Classic servers, can't wait for that shit show 
solid field
warcraftlogs down or did my work finally block it?
mental aurora
The thing about classic servers, is classic wow existed for 2 years. 2 years worth of different versions and updates. Which version do we get? 1.0? 1.12? We’ll have to wait and see
strange python
I think they said we getting the version just before BC
worn violet
Dont see a pin - have anyone started TC on the BFA talents yet?
mental aurora
So like, right before BC prepatch? That should be interesting
hoary copper
Seems to be down on my phone too @solid field
keen inlet
@worn violet they're up on wowhead
manic vigil
Idk im convinced classic was dog shit. Especially by today's standards
keen inlet
but it's alpha so it's way too early to get obsessed on hardcore tc
unreal coyote
mechanically
manic vigil
I might be underestimating people nostalgia tho
keen inlet
Regarding classic: I had a long rant elsewhere about it
as I've been playing since late vanilla
unreal coyote
same
keen inlet
and have strong (mostly negative) feelings about it
hoary copper
I started day 1...well week 1 because servers were down more than they were up. There wre parts that were god and parts that were meh
unreal coyote
thoughtful music plays softly in the background
keen inlet
worn violet
Truth. I'm just curious about the deal with Venom rush being in the same tier as TB/Exsang. I don't see us getting rid of venom rush anytime soon
mental aurora
From a game design standpoint, the systems and balancing of classic were awful. Classic wow will probably just be a nostalgia trip for most people
hoary copper
Needing resist gear and organizing 40 people in a zerg fest weas less fun
keen inlet
there is so much bad/tedious shit they forget. Did i like BC? sure. But if you gave me MOP or BC I'd take MOP every time. Wrath every time. I'd take BC over WoD only, and that's because of how bad WoD was
smaller bags, no tabs for anything, carrying poisons and ammo and shit, really weird/broken class mechanics
terrible balance
HORRENDOUS balance.
and really boring fights, mostly
return of threat management
have fun auto-attacking/wanding because of a tankswap or some shit
arena
god don't get me started on that
I remember when arena launched
it broke the game
they kept balancing pve classes/abilities around arena balance
and then there was 2s, 3s, and 5s and they were trying to balance those too```I could go on forever
cosmic nacelle
Venom rush is very different on alpha the n live
keen inlet
like, I enjoyed TBC but the game has improved so vastly in so many ways since then
even if the story has flopped and class changes are controversial
cosmic nacelle
Bc was great if you were a shadow priest :^)
shrewd oriole
you mean warlock
mental aurora
Yeah. Like “omg I so miss the nostalgic feeling of having to grind mobs from 58-60 because Blizz didn’t put enough quests in game!”
hoary copper
I loved being a mana battery
keen inlet
@worn violet if I had to gamble I'd say venom rush might get tuned to be inferior. Blizz likes to make passives not as strong as active abilities (as actives = decision/choice) but there are numerous examples of where they fail there
cosmic nacelle
Shadow priests were mana battery
solid field
Thanks @hoary copper Was about to cry, work gets so boring without fanboyin on top logs
gaunt yew
*Bc was great if you were OP class
shrewd oriole
@keen inlet I agree
unreal coyote
bc was good for many reasons
hoary copper
Resto druid was fun in I think it was BC
cosmic nacelle
MOP was my favourite past expansion
cosmic nacelle
I liked wod as well for the mythic raids
keen inlet
https://youtu.be/L_Qsq9J3g8g not to promote others' material, but this is a classic (and hilarious, and correct) video about how bad things were in TBC class-wise
shrewd oriole
The raids in wod were SO GOOD
keen inlet
(World of Cryingcraft)
solid field
I made the mistake of playing a paladin in classic.. Worst raiding experience I ever had. .Carrying thousands of relics to buff, RL making me SOC so I can rez...
mental aurora
I feel like the content we got in WoD was good. It just sucks that we got so little. 3 raids and 4 world bosses. That was it.
unreal coyote
wod was 1 diminsional trash
cosmic nacelle
Brf was perfect and so was HFC just a shame HFC lasted so long. But was still fun murdering bosses in 30 seconds with half the raid being arcane mages
rich wren
just give us more mop
shrewd oriole
that's a fucking dead horse
rich wren
give us little fox guys that everyone will hate
mental aurora
Yeah, RIP PvPers. Fuck Ashran and fuck the class hall missions that keep sending me there
rich wren
it's fine
dire spoke
daily HFC heroic clear run 🙏
rich wren
what
shrewd oriole
Probably top 3
keen inlet
"On top of that, they can turn into a fucking mutated seal. HOW FUCKING COOL IS THAT"
cosmic nacelle
I 100% agree with tom
keen inlet
I forgot how much I love this vid
shrewd oriole
that video is great lol
rich wren
you guys are wild
shrewd oriole
Why?
hoary copper
I stopped somewhere around the end of wolk and picked up in legion. I played for a hot second of cataclysm but it felt weird so I stopped
shrewd oriole
if you only like raiding the only content you care about are dun dun raids. if the raids are amazing the expansion is amazing
it's quite simple really idk what's weird about that.
shrewd oriole
Legion to me personally was worst than wod
crystal fox
only thing i really hate with legion is it being so altunfriendly, i have always liked to keep 4-5 chars going at the same time,now? can barely do two
mental aurora
One thing that I really hate about WoD is the batshit insane story. The middle of it was cut out when we lost the Shattrath raid, and somehow the Legion exists across all dimensions, but corrupted Gul’dan in both our worlds, and even though the Archimonde we kill is our Archimonde there’s still Draenei in that world. It was a mess.
keen inlet
The story was absolutely the worst part of WoD, unquestionable
rich wren
I think WoD was an abortion
keen inlet
And the lowest part of WoW "lore" since wc1
unreal coyote
timecop
prime void
Worst part of WoD for me was playing on WRA for 3 months
rich wren
period
unreal coyote
wow edition
shrewd oriole
wod's non raiding content was fucking so trash
mental aurora
The initial concept was kinda cool, but the way they got us there through the past version of an alternate timeline was shit
crystal fox
wod pvp was actually good, i did pvp 90% of wod
keen inlet
Any time you introduce time/dimension travel into a story it basically renders the whole thing bullshit
shrewd oriole
the raids were some of the best
keen inlet
Because there's no plausible suspension of disbelief. Why not just tear open portals to every alt u and get every khadgar and run that raid? easy
etc
keen inlet
The raids were good in WoD, but definitely orc/demon exhaustion
rich wren
the fights were fine, yes
shrewd oriole
not fine
keen inlet
they were all thematically very similar
mental aurora
Yrel and friends said they’d help us in our time of need. Yep. Still waitin on that.
shrewd oriole
great, amazing, fantastic
keen inlet
Blackrock had some of the coolest mechanics ever done though
shrewd oriole
those are adjectives you should use
keen inlet
HFC less so
crystal fox
imagine a raid that's just a big room,and khadgar opens up a portal and a random boss (any boss in the game) spawns in the room straight in to combat
rich wren
I liked every mop fight more than any of the fights in WoD
keen inlet
I felt like Blackrock was the highlight of WoD.
Which was a shame because I wanted Highmaul to be better, but half the fights seemed random. Like...why are we bothering with Brackenspore, etc
Imperator was a neat fight though.
Too long, but neat.
shrewd oriole
Blackrock is probably my favorite instance of all time
ToT, blackrock
cant decide on the third, but def tot and blackrock
keen inlet
I would've liked ToT more if they hadn't marketed it as Ulduar 2.0 (it wasn't)
crystal fox
blackrock what?
rich wren
eh
prime void
I really liked highmaul
shrewd oriole
Imp is one of the best end bosses
keen inlet
like ToT was kinda a mix of a troll raid, a sewer raid (enough with sewers, jesus) and then some mogu stuff
shrewd oriole
the first time I saw the fucking transition was so beautiful
keen inlet
but they marketed it as a ulduar-ish raid because "titan technology"
rich wren
sorta I guess
crystal fox
i've been playing nonstop since 2005 and i dont think i've done highmaul yet, done every other raid and instance but that
keen inlet
If I could be accused of nostalgia it would be over Ulduar.
Ulduar will probably always be the high point of WoW for me
rich wren
I really enjoyed nighthold
shrewd oriole
lol
rich wren
more than brf even
shrewd oriole
you're the weird one
rich wren
how? what was wrong with nighthold
shrewd oriole
star augur and guldan sure
keen inlet
Nighthold wasn't bad, just kinda repetitive/bland
shrewd oriole
everything else in that instance was pretty bad
rich wren
I think the power increase of the bosses was good
solid field
Ulduar was mine as well, it and being a super over geared warrior in classic pvp.. Was nothing more satisfying then charging and getting HoJ prooc into a sword proc, ms crit said other player was dead.
drifting crypt
NH wasnt that bad, the AP and legendary grind surrounding it was though
rich wren
BRF was mostly a joke minus 3 bosses as well
keen inlet
- random sewer entrance -
- Elves, elves everywhere -
- meme fights -
- Star Augur one of the coolest graphical bosses ever +
- Gul'daniel was good for memes +
shrewd oriole
I didnt mean in terms of difficulty
I meant in terms of fun
augur and guldan were the only encounters I enjoyed in NH
rich wren
I'm talking quality of instance, it was fine imo
keen inlet
but yeah, to go from orclords of Orgrimmar (SOO) for a year into WoD was probably a misfire
shrewd oriole
true lul
rich wren
I didn't mind SoO either really
keen inlet
and from HFC into ToS/Ant (albeit with a break) not great either
shrewd oriole
SoO was a good raid
rich wren
all of the classes were fun to play in the instance
keen inlet
I really hope with bfa and beyond we get some new stuff
mental aurora
I feel like from ICC up until Legion, the raids had a lot less variety in them, with the exceptional exception of Throne of Thunder. ICC was the Lich King’s fortress all the way through. Blackrock Foundry was an Orc stronghold all the way through. Then you look at Ulduar and Tomb of Sargeras. In Ulduar you’ve got enormous titan complexes, Old God prisons, and Algalon’s room. In Tomb you got ancient elven ruins, naga caverns, titan vaults, and a ship in the twisting nether. The environment changed as you went through. As good ad BRF is, the whole instance looks more or less the same. It made up for it with amazing boss design, but I do appreciate the visual variety of Ulduar, ToT, and ToS.
rich wren
I think my guild did 2 or 3 splits
keen inlet
last new thing was like, the Klaxxi
rich wren
for sales
that was nice
I think the fights in BFA will be good
they tried a lot of new different things in legion
but they also put soaks on every single fight in ToS basically
😂
rich wren
don't say that man
shrewd oriole
EN was the flop it was, antorus has a few ok fights but most of it is meh
rich wren
i don't actually want to recollect thatp lace
shrewd oriole
I mean it lol
keen inlet
nah
rich wren
I didn't mind antorus
jovial kite
keen inlet
mogu'shan vaults
rich wren
argus was really stupid
jovial kite
the stars aligned
jovial kite
rich wren
wait
keen inlet
but intro raids are meme
rich wren
what do you MEAN you can preimmunity the chains 🤔
keen inlet
see also: highmaul
and EN
EN was a let-down after years of wanting an EN expac
I didn't personally
but I know a lot of ppl did
rich wren
man EN was such a let down
keen inlet
and Val'sharah and EN were just kinda filler
shrewd oriole
I ahted it
keen inlet
poorly done, not great story arcs
rich wren
but, they had to figure out how to make artifacts and raid scaling work somehow?
keen inlet
about the only good part was the Xavius fight
rich wren
it was a misfire, but like, at least nighthold scaling was ok
mental aurora
BRF had great boss design and boring environments. ToS had great environments but cancerous boss design. Antorus has a bit of both. The first 7 bosses is more FEL GREEN EVERYWHERE, but once you reach the Burning throne things really look amazing. Seat of the Pantheon is my favorite boss arena in the entire game.
rich wren
it's pretty cool, yeah
keen inlet
coven*
keen inlet
varimathras was meme though
rich wren
you mean just the spawning of the dudes?
keen inlet
disappointed that such a big lore character got relegated to that
mental aurora
I liked how the claustrophobic arena in Vari complemented his fight design
fiery nest
Spawns are set in mythic tho
keen inlet
Aggramar was too easy for the demigod he's supposed to be
rich wren
meh
keen inlet
@fiery nest tru, I don't mythic raid tho
fiery nest
Lol
severe nymph
Sorry to bother but what are optimal stacks to get on kingsbane ?
rich wren
I think he was difficult enough for a 10th boss
tested some coordination stuff that hasnt been touched upon in a while
fiery nest
"This boss was too easy" "oh I don't raid mythic" 😂
keen inlet
@severe nymph less than 20's an issue. There isn't an optimal stack, but as many as possible is good, and 20's a good minimum to aim for as you're practicing
@fiery nest Don't be that guy
severe nymph
Thank you good sir!
rich wren
I think he was a nice boy
keen inlet
He's easy at relative levels
iE, compared to other heroic fights, he goes down quickly. Same for normal.
fiery nest
Irrelevant tho
keen inlet
and lore-wise he should be one of the toughest things we've ever faced
rich wren
Well, yeah but, they all just miss things in different difficulties
I feel like you can't gauge that kind of thing in normal or heroic
keen inlet
<----the point you------------------------------>
rich wren
it does take on avg more pulls than the other bosses put together for the average guild
so he's not like stupid easy
empty tide
agrammar should be harder than avatar
mental aurora
Protip: don’t berate someone, even passive-aggressively, for enjoying something you don’t. You raid mythic! Cool, I don’t.
rich wren
who was berating?
fiery nest
Nobody
mental aurora
You kinda were. Laughing cry emoji + difficulty gatekeeping
hoary copper
At least this tier was more forgiving if one person screwed up
keen inlet
less soaking was a plus
rich wren
I agree he should be harder than avatar to a degree, but he was the avatar of sargeras
since we like
dont get to see the end boss of the GAME until argus turns red
or ever
at that rate
keen inlet
heh don't get me started on that
rich wren
i don't want to, but at the same time, I do.
I forgot I was mad about it until just now
sharp viper
start getting really mad, grab your pitchfork and go to the streets!
empty tide
last phase should be against sargeras, not red argus
keen inlet
tl;dr massive tease to do that and then have titan spirits come in and trap him and oh hey it's ILLIDAN to save the day like the smug ponce he is
eye rollerino
sharp viper
i am disappointed argus actually lost a phase on mythic
mental aurora
One thing about Antorus I don’t like is the lore. They never explain why sargeras is suddenly an orange cloud raping azeroth. They never explain how Sargeras found the Titans’ souls, when the keepers were supposed to have them back on azeroth.
keen inlet
@mental aurora "reasons"
rich wren
he should come out of that fart cloud surrounding azeroth
and then smite down argus for failing so bad
fiery nest
There was no gatekeeping, just thought the combination of comments about a boss being too easy and then saying you don't do it on the hardest difficulty was pretty funny/rolleyes moment.
rich wren
and then do mean things to us
fiery nest
That's all
rich wren
sargeras LOOKS INTO THE BATTLE or whatever it says
keen inlet
again, relative to the equal content.
rich wren
OMG HES LOOKING AT US
keen inlet
At mythic he's tuned well. difficulties below, which are relevant to the people who play them he is not
rich wren
also, you still need a bit of coordination, so it's not too far off, but I wouldn't say that's stupid easy for the regular guild
keen inlet
the different difficulties are relevant to the people who play them. That's why they exist. but that's a long and tired argument
in an ideal world they'd be well balanced. mythic exists for 5% of the total game population (according to blizz, allegedly)- why get the balancing right for only 5% of the world? etc.
rich wren
because everyone else shouldn't really care about it as long as they get to experience the content in some way, which they can one of three other difficulties
I think it's more about experience than difficulty
they don't care about how hard or easy heroics are, they don't have to and shouldn't have to
frank sentinel
while the 5% isn't paying a premium, they are arguably a porportion of players who enjoy the specified content much more than the others
hoary copper
Heroic isnt bad, its not as easy as I thought it was but still not as hard as HTOS was because of coordination. Portal Keeper seems to be one of the first ones that give trouble, at least as someone that PUGS everything
keen inlet
I am not, btw, in any way speaking against mythic raiders
fiery nest
Why have formula 1 when people can just drive on the circuits with passenger cars?
keen inlet
It's my choice not to leave my F&F guild for a mythic raid, etc
strange python
Hey guys, some1 has a clue if the ulduar trinkets are any good?
keen inlet
@strange python They only scale up to 945, so it's debatable, but generally it seems antorus trinks still reign supreme
depending on what else you have access to
strange python
k, thx mate
mental aurora
Yeah I don’t raid mythic because my guild doesn’t. we’re progressing on Heroic Coven, and we’re having fun. That’s what matters to me
rich wren
No one said it should be any different
fiery nest
Nothing wrong with that
keen inlet
but all that set that off was just my lore-based comment that Aggramar was something of a letdown for the lore character he is
haughty harness
He's supposed to be one of the titans and all that
rich wren
and my point was at least, that you can't gauge that kind of thing doing normal where you ignore all the things that make him a big bad fire man with flip flops on
haughty harness
the player defeats him alone without help
mental aurora
Yeah a character that powerful shouldn’t be such a pushover on any difficulty
keen inlet
You'd think he'd be stronger than "newborn" titan Argus, too, although Argus at least at the final phase is possessed
rich wren
at least he isn't being portrayed by a fartcloud
that gets put in a jar
that has a really big sword
rich wren
hes a fartcloud yet his sword comes out of nowhere and penetrates the wound
fiery nest
They didn't want abt to be as hard as ToS tho, and agg isn't the last boss
keen inlet
we need new content
rich wren
and now it just sits there
keen inlet
more alpha pushes
rich wren
and everyone forgot about it because they have only done that one bit so far
manic vigil
I usually don't care about lore and stuff. I wonder tho, is there an explanation for the copies of the artifacts? Or are we supposed to imagine we'd have the only one? 
I legit never thought about that before
keen inlet
we're supposed to be the only one