assassination

[little tulip]

i mean they'll be hard stuck another week or two

[light quarry]

''we need a strong dps'' was being said when i was gonna do a weekly key with my guild

[little tulip]

as some1 who's 19 elo off 3.6k low 3.5k players are hella dubious

lol

[drifting cloud]

14-18 is just gambling

[deep latch]

Bro you’d think it gets better 3.8 still sus

[light quarry]

20s are equally corrupt with resil boosted people

[little tulip]

only 19 i tried had ppl dying to glaives on skyreach

[deep latch]

Exactly!!

[drifting cloud]

those dont invite me anyways

[light quarry]

but thats a skyreach issue, its a stupid ass key

[deep latch]

Resils are trash man either you time or don’t

[light quarry]

if i got 2 glaives i got oneshot

[deep latch]

I miss those days

[little tulip]

the arrow is hiding under your wa

[light quarry]

@spice surge what demise build have u tried? the one thats on wowhead?

[little tulip]

or the 3.5k mage fighting the 3.8k healer on laser beam wiggles and wiping the group

[spice surge]

This one, with deadly poison

[light quarry]

going 22 pit and running demise

yolo

last boss ethicality

is that with DS?

[spice surge]

Yes

But again, it does sim like 4-5% worse in practically every scenario, so your demise has to be bigger than that

[light quarry]

yeah but the pit should be free anyways

[runic hinge]

Let’s open cases

[light quarry]

idk why but sp arms assa has insane dmg, we had 14 min for last 2 bosses in seat lol

[spice surge]

Aint no way the dungeon with a lot of prio mobs went fast when you had 3 prio classes

[drifting cloud]

seat just has a "lenient" timer when you have a clean run

atleast up to 21 ig

[light quarry]

shouldve seen the horrible skyreach, we were struggling to kill the small shit adds because noone had prio mobs

[drifting cloud]

saw zac did 22 with like 6 min left gg

[light quarry]

yeah but im not zac so i dont compare to better people

[drifting cloud]

yeah its just funny its even possible for them to do it that fast

[light quarry]

we had to do last boss in 3 amps because i forgot im not a sub and sent all cds on pull like a boss

[drifting cloud]

you cant send on sub aswell right?

isnt first amp 1:15

[light quarry]

u clear 4-1-1

send all cds on pull and have them back for amp

[drifting cloud]

ig depends on group again

[light quarry]

if u have 1.5 min classes its just better

[drifting cloud]

if youre certain you kill in 2 amps probably better to hold and only delay 2nd?

[light quarry]

i mean the boss really dosnt hurt if people use defensives, all it does is confirm 2 amp kill

[spice surge]

Its 90s inbetween each, so you dont need to delay if youre only doing it for 90s dps cds

But you kinda want you defensives

[light quarry]

u only delay first one

[drifting cloud]

yeah I dont know the specifics to be fair but zacs group atleast doesnt do it

[spice surge]

And most of those are 2 min

[drifting cloud]

they delay 2nd because of feral and pbox

[light quarry]

zacs group dosnt have real cds

[drifting cloud]

he goes sub for last boss

[light quarry]

yeah its ST

i went st talents for it aswell

so did warrior

[drifting cloud]

but yeah I mean I just dont have the reps on it lol Ive done the key 3 times above a 10

1tapped 17,18,19

wait nvm im lying I didnt even do it on 18 ...

[light quarry]

if it wasnt for this run we wouldve 1 tapped it on 21 aswell

went from 16 - 21

[drifting cloud]

and on 19 we had, missed kick 2nd boss, ninja pull trash, missed delayed lura amp twice by accident, and 99% mob count

and still timed somehow

[light quarry]

ye it was amazingly free compared to SR

fk SR

[drifting cloud]

yeah skyreach sucks ass because its so rigid in pulls

evoker just makes the key easier by like almost a full level

but shrouding the trash before last platform also seems like a good time save

[little tulip]

the first pull is fun

i got pecked by a dread raven jumping down and then on the repeat mistakes were made

[light quarry]

its just the RNG deaths that are so bullshit

oh u got 2 random abilities u cant even track on u? oh it happened exactly as big aoe came out? unlucky go again

these glaives needs to get deleted or trackable

[drifting cloud]

or if the bird charges you or not for the 3rd time in a row

the bleed guy I mean

[light quarry]

alot of bs in there

one of the best dungeons for a weekly, the worst dungeon for high keys literally ever

[drifting cloud]

yeah its like necrotic wake

[little tulip]

idk we saw someone los themselves from the healer on the 2nd boss trash

actually two someones apparently

[light quarry]

u can do it by the enterance in and out of the room

but it does not work for abilities

[spare maple]

Yo could I ask any opinions on my logs and any advice to improve dps wise feeling for where I’m at I’m seeing others same spec pushing about 20k plus more
Any suggestions or advice would be great thank you

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/WVg1nyNtwfZqkRpF?fight=31&type=damage-done&source=12

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/WVg1nyNtwfZqkRpF?fight=23&type=damage-done&source=12

[uneven lance]

!ui

[prisma monolith]

Resources:

• ArcUI - Common UI Replacement
  AyjieCDM - Enhancements to the Cooldown Manager
• MSUF - Common Unit Frame replacement
• Platynator - Recommended Nameplate Addon (Plater is not recommended due to poor performance and bad buff filtering)
  (Jundies Profile)
  (Whispyr's Profile)
  Misc:
• Clickable Raid Buffs - Poison Reminder
• WilduTools - random QoL like melee range indicator and cursor replacement

[mortal linden]

Should I take Slice and Dice completely off my bars or are there still very rare, unique use cases where I want to press it?

[runic hinge]

You can take it off your bars

[mortal linden]

Gotcha ty!

[native sun]

Mythic paladins was annoying as fuck lol.

[magic thorn]

The only benefit having it key bind is if you want to have it up before doing a first dungeon pull.
You farm cp before the key starts and then use slice and dice

[drifting cloud]

dont do it tony

[marsh fjord]

according to @strange onyx its the bestest of bosses

[native sun]

My favorite as rogue was dragons. Running sudden demise on that felt good. Also Skoop sounds like a masochist

[marsh fjord]

My favorite boss this tier is probably Alleria

[fallow canopy]

my hot take is that soul hunters was a really fun boss

[light quarry]

it was one of the best council bosses, still one of the worst in the raid

thats my hot take

[fallow canopy]

I put it top 3, behind saladbar and dimmy

[light quarry]

stinky take

[fallow canopy]

hey I said hot take

[light quarry]

1st boss lowkey slapped

[fallow canopy]

[light quarry]

for a first boss it was fun

[fallow canopy]

it was for a 1st boss

tbh manaforge was kinda stinky in general tho

[light quarry]

always gotta compare to where the boss is in the raid

same with like rashok, one of my fav bosses ever

[fallow canopy]

my first mythic boss

[light quarry]

was my first tier in pve
i rerolled 4 times, 2 times to tank

[fallow canopy]

wait nvm I pugged the first 2 on the raszageth tier

I lied

[strange onyx]

Ya summoned the loa?

Paladins is a decent fight if you are in the melee soak

[hazy sundial]

Imperator slaps in this tier

[strange onyx]

L’ura is the best fight this tier. Belo’ren is worst

[clear knoll]

Is there an addon that tells us when to pop a defensive for aoe skills that can’t be avoided

[karmic pier]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Stats
You will always get more accurate results using Raidbots Top Gear, as stat values will flucuate depending on gear and situation.

Agility (Item level) > Crit > Haste > Mastery >>>> Vers
The ratio between secondaries ends up being roughly 40/33/26/1

[marsh fjord]

Probaly my favorite boss ever is sludgefist

that boss was so goated

[cinder seal]

hello can u explain why Improved Garrote dont give 50% extra damage but give always 831/692=20% with no items

[light quarry]

It was very fun indeed, i had such an amazing experience with dim so its sadly my r1

rashok, sludge, princess kyveza are fighting in my top 5

[marsh fjord]

I did dimmy but never reached p3 because of bad guild. but sludefist was so fun because it was so tightly balanced that if someone died early with chains you just wipe.

[light quarry]

Thats why i like princess, same reason, if u were bad u died

[little tulip]

paladins on outlaw for an hour and a half was fun but it felt counter productive to prog on into 2nd circle set stuff

we got lightblood to 28 i think

but that was like while wiping

[fallow canopy]

Kyveza is my top 1

[spice surge]

Because you are hitting the pvp dummies, and its only 20% in pvp

[drifting cloud]

[spice spire]

[cinder seal]

wtf how i suppuse to get this even in pvp , is my abbility description change in bg?

[spice surge]

Yes

But also it is dumb

[cinder seal]

🤦

[runic hinge]

You mentioned gambling

[worn geyser]

bros not pre-feinting based on vibes of when the chakrams should be coming out couldnt be me

does anyone know if thats something exwind can track, i think they have some kinda trash CD tracker that works for some abilities like that

[fresh kelp]

I do not believe chakram is in exwind

You can see blade rush though

and screech, dread wind, orb (those last 2 I think I surely did not run this key 6 hours ago)

[worn geyser]

surprised blizz hasnt exploded the addon yet seems insane you get info like this from it i need to set it up ig

[fresh kelp]

Ye I mean

It also has the targeted spell package built in + the old wa that let you see casts in the group + targets to easily see overlaps

It is quite busted

[worn geyser]

i jus downloaded it rn and yeah thats insane, it also has audio back on the focus interrupt bar which is pretty nice

[fresh kelp]

Oh yeah the custom sound for focus interrupt is insane

I really hope they don’t nuke it

It’s not fun being blind in keys

[worn geyser]

thats how ive been doing my 20s rn but like yeah its not super fun when u randomly get owned by an overlap u cant really see coming

[fresh kelp]

if they do then I’m sure echo and the rest will just have some private workaround

while we are currently blessed to have a public version

[worn geyser]

yeah, i think it only kinda works rn cause the abilities just have static CDs, if they make them more random to break the addon you wont even be able to vibes based feel for the overlaps anymore either lmao

would make the problem even worse

[trim cairn]

Ay I mean that build outperforms regular build, just not in sims cuz they dont include SD

If only SD activated whenever instead of only checking the health on every bleed tick it'd feel a lot better to play

[worn geyser]

if were demise maxxing for 10s why not say fuck it go forced induction drop cold blood, take negotiable contract deathmark the shitter mobs gg big booms

[trim cairn]

I was talking higher keys like 18s

What you are describing is the redsuck60sbang build

You can get a juicy 2m+ sudden demise proc with it

but feels kinda dumb to hold all your cds until boss is in execute range only for one big number xd

[worn geyser]

yeah i mean imo sd maxxing gameplay feels kinda weird pretty much always anyway fuck it

[trim cairn]

I mean it feels pretty sexy when you get packs where SD does 400k dps lol

on like 8 mobs

[molten flicker]

how do you play the SD build in high keys? I'm guessing you're supposed to do something different?

[light quarry]

no

[loud light]

the thing you need to do different is find a group that won't shun you for playing SD in a high key

[royal lantern]

you are allready sexy, you dont need that

[trim cairn]

I mean the only difference is refreshing bleeds towards the end of a pack when you normally wouldn't do it with the regular build

[molten flicker]

thanks

[molten flicker]

what do you mean with deadly poison? isn't deadly poison the first point in three, ie not optional?

[spice surge]

Amp is talented

But without any of the envenom talents its not worth it over deadly

[molten flicker]

oh I see

[flat kindle]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[low silo]

Ive been experimenting with DS, the prio damage doesn't really seem worth it to do like 15k less ST 🫠

5 minute crawth was rough

[runic hinge]

It’s also the disgusting force to 7

[worn geyser]

i did a few keys with it , def feels bad on any dungeon u cant funnel

its fun in pit tho

[light quarry]

@spice surge sudden demise lowkey crazy in mt

1st pull was insane

1m sudden demise on sentry

[low silo]

What key level was that

[light quarry]

19

sadly

[low silo]

I love SD

[light quarry]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/6bHQTft9ZRKGWFgr?fight=last&type=damage-done

sudden demise + deathstalker

[low silo]

Tres interessant

[light quarry]

sadly we had a very very slow tank

couldve done so much more

[low silo]

Time to force random pugs to deal with me playing DS/SD

[worn geyser]

the SD break down is so funny

[light quarry]

😭

[worn geyser]

fuck it maybe its the method, steal some pad back from these classes like ww that make our overall look worse by frame 1 exploding adds

[light quarry]

look at 1st boss lol

he oneshots the wyrms

[worn geyser]

LOL

[low silo]

Guys I'm calling it now. De Other Side comes back next tier and we get IQD back

[light quarry]

i will say tho, the first pull was lowkey insane, check the replay on when they die

[worn geyser]

this is your break down compared to my MT 19 on FB, the huge decrease in spatter seems pretty not worth im ngl

[light quarry]

oh its absolutely not worth it

lmao

but its fun

but like in a random 19 shitter key it did way more than i thought it would

[worn geyser]

although i think if your key was faster you wouldve ended up higher dps overall for sure

[low silo]

But you get to steal damage from the other dps

[light quarry]

by alot, also died to agro 2 times

[worn geyser]

27 min vs 34 min MT makes a huge diff

oh those shreds are mega lame, like if you start attacking even with tricks on the gather after 2nd boss they just randomly decide to delete you

[golden loom]

I just did a MT on my 247 outlaw and bonus rolled a 1 hander.. its meant to be

I am a pirate now

[worn geyser]

i think their ability must have some los thing to its targeting, cause if tank rounds the corner it must just decide to not gaf and hit the 2nd highest threat in line of sight or some shit

[fresh kelp]

doesnt it go on a random target

it's supposed to be 60yds ignoring los

[worn geyser]

honestly not sure the wording on it says 'its target'

[fresh kelp]

tbh I think we're doing something slightly wrong because people almost got oneshot on the gather in the 21

surely its not just gamba

[worn geyser]

its either that or like when you start smacking them with tricks its only you and the tank in combat with them so u just have higher chance to die

i stopped attacking them on gather personally

[marsh fjord]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-gif-26560971

When name yellow?

[vernal adder]

yo ho walk wank the plank

[marsh fjord]

I had a stroke

reading this

[worn geyser]

ye im not sure tho, if u find out how it works i would love to know though, cause it is one of the more annoying things in MT since I would be doing mega damage that pull if i could setup bleeds in gather without 70% chance of dying

[vernal adder]

[marsh fjord]

its poe2 launch day boys and girls

lock in

[vernal adder]

never played

[marsh fjord]

Stil

Lock in bro

[vernal adder]

ok lochin lock in

[fallow canopy]

https://tenor.com/view/locking-in-locked-in-gif-8219871157839817111

[marsh fjord]

My goat

[vernal adder]

https://tenor.com/view/silly-cat-silly-car-car-stare-10-thousand-yard-stare-10-thousand-yard-gif-14200271775968563996

[marsh fjord]

Oh

fuck

wrong gif

[vernal adder]

erect tree

real danger with fallen trees

dont get smacked

[marsh fjord]

hahahah real 😄

[fallow canopy]

Im ready to flicker all over my screen

[marsh fjord]

If you keep acting like this i will flicker all over you

https://tenor.com/view/ragebaited-ragebait-rage-bait-rage-baited-guaracord-gif-1491053584965813827

[fallow canopy]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1471195621619929180/1480640409523851476/six_cats_colored.gif

[vernal adder]

flicker strike that ass

[marsh fjord]

Hmmmm

your kinda sus

never played

what knows

what flicker strike is?

https://tenor.com/view/james-doakes-doakes-curious-suspicious-questioning-gif-14390669560130901665

[fallow canopy]

Are the numbers not adding up?

Ayo

[marsh fjord]

Numbers are not adding up

@vernal adder we need that gif back asap

[vernal adder]

its walking the line gif

[marsh fjord]

send it

[fallow canopy]

Very sussy

[vernal adder]

nah I got like 12 warning

[light quarry]

@worn geyser holy shit i just realized sudden demise is basically stolen aug dmg

he buffs my bleeds to make it proc faster but he dosnt get any sudden demise dmg

[worn geyser]

this actually might be the method to finally getting one back at these fraudulent aug players

dont they not get spatter damage reattributed either

[runic hinge]

Ramlu next ban is ten years

[trim cairn]

Your garrote is doing more than his? u wot m8

[worn geyser]

well, sudden demise is gonna eat his garrote damage by executing the target right

my targets dont get that execute so they get ticked by garrote more

[coral ibex]

doesn't SD also have +bleed damage baked in

[trim cairn]

It does

[coral ibex]

or was that removed in midnight

yea so that tracks

[golden loom]

yeah the actual point of the talent

[worn geyser]

3100 in 27 mins vs 3500 in 34mins

[coral ibex]

you can math out SD damage and reattribute it to garrote and rupture

the SD log has way more garrote damage

[worn geyser]

yeah

[trim cairn]

Shouldnt matter since there arent really a ton of situations where you are leaving the entire pack alive with max duration bleed on them while running to the next

You'll be getting more ticks in sure but spending longer to finish the mobs

[worn geyser]

it matters more for MT cause the small shitter mobs arent getting insta executed like his are

[trim cairn]

Ah yeah that's a fair point

Same on NPX

mana barrels and the small voidlings explode

[worn geyser]

yeah, one thing im confused about is how on DS 50 less envenom casts(edit: i am so bad at math) I get on FB with a 5 min longer dungeon that seems cooked

[coral ibex]

ds generates significantly less energy

so you have fewer cp to spend

so you cast fewer envenoms

[trim cairn]

Wait

one second

[worn geyser]

I mean ive played it in a few keys, its definitely less, is it really that much worth

[trim cairn]

why the fuck is he running amp poison

What the

[trim cairn]

Bro you still need to run deadly poison with SD

[light quarry]

[trim cairn]

Actually hilarious

[trim cairn]

Fatebound has way less to do with it

[coral ibex]

less energy, fatebound gives free cp, all adds up to more envenoms as fb vs ds

[trim cairn]

than running amp poison instead of deadly poison

[coral ibex]

oh

yea i was scrolling up to find this

wtf no deadly poison

[trim cairn]

Amp poison doesnt tick so the guy is literally getting 0 energy

[worn geyser]

dont you get the energy gain from the bleed ticking on the poisoned enemy not from the poison tick

[blazing totem]

correct

[trim cairn]

All weapon poison crits give 1 energy

Dashing Scoundrel

[blazing totem]

but dashing makes it so you gain from poison crits

so probably what he meant

[worn geyser]

ah yeah i see

[coral pivot]

Deathstalker and bleed build kinda go against each other without DTB, ye? Because amp poison does increase envenom damage

But you end up with DS giving no energy if you run amp

[worn geyser]

vs

discord image posting is so bad

yeah half the amount of energy gain from that will probably do that, SD DS in MT might be the method for overall padding ngl

[golden loom]

@light quarry pick the right poison bozo..

[worn geyser]

like if his key is same time as mine, and he has right poison on, he just gaps my damage

[trim cairn]

The padding argument only makes sense in a vacuum

[golden loom]

also doesnt deadly poison do way more damage in aoe

[trim cairn]

And if you don't change the playstyle

[worn geyser]

I mean over half his SD damage is honestly useless towards speeding the key up though

[coral pivot]

pretty sure SD also procs Singular Focus tho

[trim cairn]

It doesnt

[coral pivot]

Oh right, on wrong target

[trim cairn]

That could be said for your regular damage too

[coral pivot]

Nvm

At least SD cranks up his Crimson Tempest damage

[trim cairn]

In several settings the mobs dying faster is just a straight up benefit since you cant chain pull because of rp/physical gates

[rigid fable]

in aoe should i apply all dots then use puzzle box with deathmark + kingsbane?

[trim cairn]

Boss spawns faster, next set of adds spawn faster

[worn geyser]

I mean no one is not chain pulling cause some voidlings or wyrms are alive

[golden loom]

if you are doing high enough keys to where ur target will then live the entire cd duration also, yes

[rigid fable]

got it

[trim cairn]

The whole "all SD damage is padding" doesn't work in practice because like I said, just because you aren't getting any damage on the target that isnt there in the first place doesn't mean that taking a 33% damage loss on the remaining damage to compress 30s of bleeds into 1s isn't a net gain anyways

[coral ibex]

its padding because you get to claim the damage before someone else does it

[trim cairn]

By that definition, all damage is padding

I'll let the DH know he is just padding because he is stealing potential damage from me before I do it

[coral ibex]

you're applying bleeds that are too long for the target to experience and then instantly realizing 2/3 of that damage

[trim cairn]

The relevant difference being what exactly?

The bleeds are no longer too long for the target to experience thanks to SD

[worn geyser]

like the damage on those mobs is in practice cause you running a build to claim the damage on these mobs is making the dungeon in total take longer as these mobs are almost never the limiting factor in what stops you from pulling the next pack, they are just going to die to passive cleave anyway you just dont get to reserve a large portion of that cleave to yourself

[coral ibex]

yup

[coral pivot]

I think the reason it was kinda good in TWW was that bleeds did so much that you'd execute at quite high %?

[trim cairn]

SD does damage on everything that is relevant as well

[coral pivot]

Not to mention that the bleed increase was also good

[worn geyser]

i mean yeah it procs on every mob sure, but SD on a prio mob is still worse than regular build on prio mob

[coral ibex]

you could also pad your SD by reapplying CT right before SD range

and saving shiv for it

[coral pivot]

That true

[golden loom]

I send a 7 point rupture even tho it has 24 seconds remaining and vanish garotte CT spam

[trim cairn]

I mean it literally isn

[trim cairn]

And again, that is not padding

How much damage does your envenom do exactly?

[coral ibex]

ok

i dont really want to argue about the definition of pad damage

[trim cairn]

Fair enough

[spice surge]

Me padding on the adds of the third boss of seat

[worn geyser]

actual good use case of SD tbh

[trim cairn]

I'm just saying that you use 7Cp on an envenom to do 110k on one target, with SD I'm using that same global to do a 600k rupture that would proc upwards of 400k in SD damage

[worn geyser]

in your opinion does sudden demise make you go through the key faster than the regular build with the standard comp

in high keys

[trim cairn]

I haven't been running 20+ keys on the rogue and haven't advocated for running SD up there because I'm pretty sure the regular build does more damage consistently there, and it's past the benefit curve for SD anyways

but for 18s and lower yeah

[light quarry]

SECRET KEY LEVEL

[spice surge]

The druid spec is also secret

[worn geyser]

fair enough I do think it is pretty good around there and lower

and more fun

[low silo]

Nothing tops my "forget to apply poisons until 3 envenoms into the key" tech

[trim cairn]

The first 2 big red warnings didn't tip you off? 😛

[runic hinge]

I dont get the red warnings ever since s2 of DF

[low silo]

Bold of you to assume I can read

Peak chimaerus opener

[normal mist]

i'll assume... lag?

[low silo]

It's another 3 letter word with an A in the middle

[normal mist]

pAd?

mAd?

sAd?

[balmy condor]

I’m a big fan of the confused rupture into immediate cds, press kingsbane and then another 3 generators

[light quarry]

ASS

[balmy condor]

In the middle

[fallow canopy]

https://tenor.com/view/emotiguy-joe-joecoin-joe-coin-picardia-gif-15683717919677988754

@marsh fjord

[light quarry]

midASSdle

my brain is working overtime

[balmy condor]

That works

[thorn thorn]

Show the druid spec (we know its a boomie)

[light quarry]

show boomie some love they havent been meta for like 1 season

[thorn thorn]

https://imgur.com/a/hvPl4e3

[thorn thorn]

No

Destroy all boomkins

[marsh fjord]

whats going on ]

[fallow canopy]

flickering

[low silo]

You can also the 3 second short circuit in my brain when I realized I had no poisons on

[low silo]

*Bad

[strange onyx]

How bro this stupid? Full offense

[low silo]

See above

[strange onyx]

Too long to scroll. WhispyrAI give me the rundown

[low silo]

First time rogue 🙁

And by first time I mean 5th tier of prog

[marsh fjord]

WE FLICXKRING

[balmy condor]

you're out of tokens bud

[thorn thorn]

That will be $500m usd

Why are there only warlocks applying after 15s

And why are they all so fucking awful

[noble nova]

guys if I want to use wound poison

it goes instead of deadly?

or its not worth switching for damage

[balmy condor]

you could maybe swap into it instead of amp poison in m+ on certain packs at the start of maisara

but it's questionable how worth it that is

[thorn thorn]

@royal lantern

[trim cairn]

It would be more worth in MT on the big voids

but still not worth

God damn I have never had a worse routing for assa cds than this MC run

Holding DM for an average of 50s every time lol

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/yes-yes-cat-gif-555799605331270828

[rancid anvil]

i know that racials have a very small difference to damage, but is there anywhere that i can actually see the % difference between them?

[balmy condor]

https://bloodmallet.com/chart/rogue/assassination/races/castingpatchwerk

[rancid anvil]

thank you

[noble nova]

I wanted to use it for the first packs in Seat

[strange onyx]

Gosh darn frick it

[lethal arrow]

swappin to pandaren

[strange onyx]

Bad call

[shy heron]

pandaren deez

[strange onyx]

Zandalari is simmed to be best next tier

[thorn thorn]

@balmy condor here is a clip of me being dumb and falling off a cliff in AA

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1189364723230199898/1510054061100240946/Rox_Fall_1.gif

[radiant aspen]

https://imgur.com/EVRehLn

[balmy condor]

I would favorite this but that would require giving a gif of you a gold star

and I don't want to even symbolically give you praise like that

[strange onyx]

Did you see me swim in the well?

[thorn thorn]

you should

before i make you wanna die with dumbassery again

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1189364723230199898/1510053697663668355/Video_Project_1_1.gif

[balmy condor]

I did

[buoyant copper]

Raidbots keeps saying to stack haste, to the point where it is even recommending dropping my mastery as low as 300 from gear, and still recommended shattered sun flask over magisters. (my crit is 1100)
this seems suspiciously low. when i look at murlok it seems there are top assassination players who also have very low mastery, but also some with very high mastery. is it really that negligable as long as i am getting crit and haste?

[runic hinge]

The robot knows how to do math

[buoyant copper]

fatebound btw

[balmy condor]

Yes

[buoyant copper]

thanks whispyr

[near aspen]

anyone have a low key cringe sudden demise build?

nvm i see it now

[normal mist]

theres one in wowhead yeah

[grave nova]

at how many targets do yall generally stop worrying about letting the envenom energy buff thingy wear off?

[buoyant herald]

1

[worn geyser]

i just use whether or not i need energy or not to determine if i wanna let it drop from 80

outside of single target

[rain sorrel]

How do you guys think deathstalker is after the buffs?

[balmy condor]

incredibly niche for the highest levels of m+

[primal smelt]

the arms warrior can funnel

tossing coins around this way still

[spare kayak]

Do we expect more buffs to ds? Zerocool coping on stream yesterday

[balmy condor]

no

[solar wyvern]

I expect 1 more underperformer buffs on .7 or 2 weeks after .7 and then 12.1

Ds may get buffed again but meh

I could see like it being a momentum buff that is neutral with ftb

"Were helping"

[balmy condor]

I don't think they're gonna give a buff to something that's viable

like they're buffing underperformers, but ds is like

within range of being played

and also very strong on sub

the point of the buffs was to get it to a state of viability

which it is

it's just also ass to play

[solar wyvern]

Meh theyll see fok being used in ST and change something surely

[haughty flicker]

[balmy condor]

yeah I assume that gets fixed and a compensation buff and that's probably it

[rotund oak]

sounds about right

[runic storm]

Is the Murder Fish Hook good for Assassin

[balmy condor]

it's terrible

[runic storm]

Ah, thanks. Glad I didn't make it.

[balmy condor]

yeh

people read "bleed" and think it's sick

but items fundamentally don't interact

[runic storm]

I'm not sure why they don't make those kinds embellishment competitive

[prime flame]

Is it more viable to run Sudden Demise in low keys at any point? And do you just drop Dashing Scoundrel for it?

[balmy condor]

there's a build for it in the faq and wowhead

[normal mist]

@balmy condor thoughts on the stupidity they are doing next D4 season?

[balmy condor]

yeah they literally just skullfucked their entire goodwill

for no reason really

[coral pivot]

What are they changing?

[balmy condor]

nothing

literally nothing

[coral pivot]

Ah

That was early for D4 to get the D3 treatment

[dim yacht]

do we know anything about the ring/necklace in sporefall coming up? will the necklace be able to proc off our self heals, and will the ring actually be good? most of the time these kinds of procs have an ICD right, and dont really do much for aoe? only single target?

[jovial cradle]

alright i want the true sin savants to tell me, what build should i do to meme around on, i need to practice sin for beloren prog and wanna know how i can have some fun in baby keys

[normal mist]

Playerbase: We like things how they are, just make it so uniques have set in stone stats and not random and fix bugs and add a seasonal affix please Blizzard!
Blizzard: Okay so we're making it so even mythic items have randomized stats and are nerfed to the ground, normal uniques can now proc mythic, overall nerfing every single builds in A tier or above and... fuck them bugs mates.

[normal mist]

baby keys Sudden demise builds

[coral pivot]

But that also won't let you practice anything useful for Beloren prog

[normal mist]

^

[jovial cradle]

oh i know

[balmy condor]

the ring and the neck are good because they are higher ilvl than every other ring and neck and have a free proc on them which do something, even if it's not particularly good or strong

so

they will be bis

[dim yacht]

yeah i figure that

[balmy condor]

self-heals I believe proc it

[jovial cradle]

i wanna make this fun cuz frankly i think sin is boring compared to law, but when prog comes for it i'll lock in on a non grief build

[balmy condor]

but they aren't testable

so

[dim yacht]

gotcha, ty for the info

[balmy condor]

napkin math/datamining says the ring is like npx set bonus levels of strong

probably similar-ish for the neck

[dim yacht]

i think im more interested in the shield than anything for the neck

for m+ its a nice surv boost

[balmy condor]

it's not gonna be good enough for that

but it'll do a little bit on rot fights I guess

but the shield alone ain't worth shit in terms of like, actual tangible surivability

[dim yacht]

it wouldnt be reliable, but it could potentially save from some pretty hard hitting stuff in high keys

kinda like the eye of midnight. its nothing crazy, but i can appreciate it

[balmy condor]

yeh maybe

[dim yacht]

and some of the rot in high keys is insane. last boss of magisters, and third boss of seat

oof

magisters esp even when im fenting on cd, im just watching my hp melt away slowly

at least seat third boss you have feints up for when you need it

[balmy condor]

to be fair, they are reworking mythic items by making them don't exist anymore, everything is just unique, and then adding them back as a new item tier that makes the powers 30% stronger (this is just the primal ancient system of diablo 3 copy pasted)

and they're adding SSF

and uhhhhh

the throwaway mechanic from season 6 when vessel launched is back

and maybe better

but maybe not

everyone loves realmwalkers

but there's no new uniques, no new talismans, no new nothing

[coral pivot]

Aah, so feels more like it's just polishing things?

[cosmic citrus]

Appologies for the silly question, returning to rogue after a long time.

When i don't have the tempered blades talent active, do i use deadly or amplifying poison?

[balmy condor]

polishing is a.... generous word, but sure yeah

[balmy condor]

deadly

[cosmic citrus]

Thank you

[coral pivot]

Well, an attempt at polishing something that wasn't adequate. That's at least how I read the mythic items thing. Even though they are just re-using the primal ancient thing

[normal mist]

Making every thing random stats is annoying tho

[coral pivot]

That I can agree with

[strange onyx]

dont play sudden demise if u wanna learn assa

it teaches you bad habits

[oak ember]

Is crit flask still better than haste when you hit the 10% diminishing return?

[strange onyx]

sim it

easy to sim flasks in top gear now

[oak ember]

Crit is still better go figure

[royal lantern]

its mastery for me

🤷‍♂️

[marble wadi]

AA question do you guys send deathmark on second wave of birds for crawth, high keys

[analog field]

I usually send KB and have DM kB for crawth pull

If you have DM KB on second wave probably you will have them back by crawth spawn

Depends on the timing of 1st boss usually

[river nebula]

Hey, can we cloak orbs on beloren ? Missing a hunter so looks like I’m up

Guessing DS would be the play for the extra 2 seconds ?

[strange onyx]

You can cloak Orbs

Do not play DS

[strange onyx]

I usually send on first big bird

lines up better

[strange onyx]

Which wave you doing?

or u going in intermission / after?

[river nebula]

I’m second P1

[strange onyx]

You got this! I believe in you

[river nebula]

Thank you!

[spring creek]

does deathstalker still suck ass?

[strange onyx]

tja

[light quarry]

no and yes

[strange onyx]

In high keys without other good prio, it is quite decent. So no ret, warrior etc.

[golden loom]

but also why even bother

[strange onyx]

Good fun, innit?

[golden loom]

mfkin spec has u fan of knivesing in single target

HELL YEAH

[storm talon]

I feel like i have no energy generation in dungeon since yesterday, is it normal ?

[golden loom]

did u have poisons on

[strange onyx]

xd

[golden loom]

cause nothing has changed

[strange onyx]

Dont tell that clown guy, but been sending some SD keys

fun to pad

[storm talon]

Yeah i had my poison on xD

[strange onyx]

then it is just feelscraft

[storm talon]

ok thanks guys

[strange onyx]

nw

come back anytime!

[oak ember]

Yes, then kingbane the 3rd or hold it until boss spawns

[solar wyvern]

If pace is good u should only have to dm ancient once, dm wind ele, dm 2nd bird, dm crawth on pull or a bit into fight

U just dont wanna dm past 30 seconds on crawth

Cause usually youll miss window

Also its good to hold orbs

So u can push 2-3% on boss

To hit execute in burn faster

[analog field]

dm once? you mean twice?

less than 2 min ?

[fading mulch]

bros im brand new to rogue, just boosted a rogue to 80 and I watched peeka do a high key as assassin in big aoe pulls why would you use FoK over Tempest? or CT puts the bleeds on and Fok is better dmg after bleeds are on?

[golden loom]

you use CT to spread bleeds, however it also costs more energy than FoK, so after stuff has bleeds you swap to fok

[fading mulch]

Thank you uwu cute girl in game

[golden loom]

np

[onyx crane]

ok I have a cosmetic question

any of you play a small rogue race and have the mage tower weapon?

because on my goblin, when I equit the kingslayer artifact as a mog

I get not effect on the kingsbane and envenom animation

so I haven ot seen the effects for nearly a decade

[solar wyvern]

Fight is like 3:30 and you wont have dm on pull, so if you DM twice you wont have or be late for wind ele, and if u dont have for wind ele, then u have it come up at a very awkward time on birds and then its late on crawth

And since ancient is infinity damage for assa youd rather move your cd

U can send a 4th kb for little cost on ancient tho

[analog field]

not very familiar with 23's but in 20's I kinda have cd on pull

[split veldt]

damn, just simmed outlaw in my current gear, 149k slice, 92k ST, while Sin sims 132k slice, 78k ST

😭

[sharp viper]

so you see the effects when you transmog a different weapon?

[thin furnace]

Gnome rogue here playing with green version, both animations play normally.

[spring creek]

they're trying to tell you something...

[trim cairn]

Dw you are never gonna hit the sim for outlaw

and not worth getting carpal tunnel for

[grim jay]

Outlaw has been simming higher for the past decade

In dslice

Sims arent for comparison between specs

[sharp bramble]

any comment on hunt + arcano weave not being the best embelishments anymore with the 298 offhand? i did some sims and many embelishment combos are either on the same level or even better. i am pretty maxed out on myth gear but some slots are missing the bis items, for example lura and aleria drops

[grim jay]

Just use whatever sims highest

Embellishments are overall so small, its not surprising that it might get mixed results

[analog field]

What difference are you seeing?

[sharp bramble]

i am always doing that. just wanted to know if someone else also already switched the embelishments

diffrence is really small. just wanted to try something new

like 0,1% dps st 😄

[balmy condor]

The first I’m hearing of better combos

[sharp bramble]

maybe because i am missing some bis

[analog field]

2 arcanoweave can be a bit better but the difference will be like 0.1

so it doesn't matter

[balmy condor]

0.1 holy margin of error

Let’s fking go

[sharp bramble]

tired of everyone with arcano weave. just wanted something new 🙁

[balmy condor]

Arcanoweave gives stats to party members right

[coral pivot]

Ye

Cheeky 11 primary stat

[sharp bramble]

it is super strong. no question

[balmy condor]

Yeah gg

That’s not simmed

Rip your 0.1%

[sharp bramble]

🙁

[balmy condor]

[analog field]

play double arcanoweave and have 0.2 gain

gg

[sharp bramble]

i did my sims without socket on the wrist though. could be higher. the double jewelry combo simmed quite high

[storm forum]

Arcanoweave gives my guildies main stat sometimes, how do we fix this? cause I don't wanna help them. That's damage that I could be doing.

[sharp bramble]

exactly

[storm forum]

Should I craft a second hunt dagger?

[fallow canopy]

With arcanoweave you are 0.000091% of an Augmentation and they are cringe so

[trim cairn]

Is there an enchant that lets me take control of the tank in m+ so he doesnt afk between packs?

[runic hinge]

Loa ring

[storm forum]

I love gambling

[trim cairn]

Gambling? Isn't it just dependent on which color gems you have?

[storm forum]

Iirc when it procs, it procs an effect from only one of your gems

[waxen oyster]

so just have one gem

[storm forum]

So like, you can rig it and only use 1 type of gem and then you get a 1/2 chance for the default effect vs the gem type you have

[waxen oyster]

[storm forum]

But that's not fun

Not as fun

You gotta put all the gem types in

Make it into a 1/6 die roll

[fallow canopy]

Baby roll the dice

[storm forum]

Also the crit damage gem with 1 of each gem type is simming like 0.5% higher for me

And I don't wanna redo all of my gems

Just to spite my allies for an embellishment swap

[golden loom]

Everyone should play arcanoweave while I play hunt and focusing iris

[storm fossil]

When im at 80 stacks for implacable

what do i cast while waiting for it to expire?

[balmy condor]

Mutilate to 5 cp

Then you just sit there

[latent kernel]

I have a /dance macro

[storm fossil]

;D

[spice surge]

I must apologize in advance

[storm fossil]

whats the thiught pricess about using fan instead of the spread thing?

Like why not just spam it?

[spice surge]

CT costs more energy

[storm fossil]

ah ok. but in like mega pulls with cds its just such a nice feeling haha

[deep pier]

how much haste does assa want ?

[royal lantern]

sim your gear

thats it

[deep pier]

Fair

[royal lantern]

assa is no trainwreck like sub that needs Classic-Cataclysm stat % to be playable

[bold hatch]

Quick question, when casting crimson to spread bleeds do you still cast envenom on every 5 combo points or just keep casting crimson until everything had bleeds?

[storm forum]

yes env at 5+ points

[bold hatch]

so when you are getting a huge pack and gettting full points every one crimson you just crimson, env, crimson, env?

even if there are only a few targets with bleeds?

[spice surge]

CT spreads your bleeds to 2 additional targets

You want to press CT until every target (that you care about) has bleeds on them

After that you start building with fok instead

But yes, still use envenoms at 5+

[storm forum]

Yeah crimson env crimson env

Then fan env fan env when everything has bleeds

Although I guess there is a target count when you would need to go refresh bleeds back into crimson env crimson env

But I don't think that's a thing in any current dungeon

[bold hatch]

and what about puzzlebox, do you send puzzle, king, death all at onces then just use king at one mine then redo all three. Or are you doing death, king then one min later king puzzle

Also what is the order of p[oping them. I've been doing puzzle cast, then King, Death

sorry pretty new to rogue normally a healer

[balmy condor]

Why

[spice surge]

Posted in tc channel

[runic hinge]

Yeah that’s cursed

[balmy condor]

I see

[balmy condor]

Puzzle -> deathmark -> kingsbane usually

[spice surge]

Wasnt expecting it to be this big, and wasnt expecting it to be good on builds with rapid injection

More energy = more good ig

[bold hatch]

so death is normally casted before king? even if not using puzzle?

[spice surge]

Yes

Deathmark doubles poisons, which makes kingsbane stack up twice as fast

So you want it to be up when you press kingsbane (and you also want envenom to be up already)

[fallow canopy]

Imagine a world where sub and sin use cancelaura

[royal lantern]

do i want to know

or will i curse your bloodline?

[fallow canopy]

(I know sub doesn't really unless you want to do extra backstabs which are probably negligible)

[balmy condor]

Yes

[sharp viper]

[solar wyvern]

2 words project a thousand emotions all at once

[haughty flicker]

[coral pivot]

I mean, when you don't run out of energy, isn't it quite worth to use CT as a generator over FOK? Considering you apply IB and still get max CP? Or is FOK with poison procs doing more?

[solar wyvern]

Yes its good

Idk if its better on ds

[coral pivot]

That was also what I thought since the CT talks

[solar wyvern]

But ct base dam higher

[coral pivot]

Well, since we found out CT was bugged and also re-applying IB

[storm forum]

Iirc, the sims showed that the fan talents outweigh the CT base damage/IB bug

If you weren't spreading gar/rup with it

[solar wyvern]

That must be new then i definitely remember perma ct if infinite energy being better

[storm forum]

I also might not be rembering correctly

[royal lantern]

FoK also has a higher crit chance

cus, you know, talents

so you generate on average more CP with FoK

[coral pivot]

Ye, but if there's like 12+ mobs. You're still hitting max CP with CT

The question is if CT or FOK is the best when we are in a place with enough energy to spam CT

IIRC, CT was best because you'd apply IB on targets

[pearl mauve]

Hey, if I’m right best burst is apply garote rupture, send 1 envenom then puzzlebox dm kb
But sometimes(smaller keys) you know your target will die quickly and you’ll barely have time to use half of kb if you do the full setup
Would u shorten the « opener » to send cds earlier ?
Is there any rule to follow for these situations ?

[normal mist]

Use sudden demise builds

If things are getting blown

Also the pre envenom is nice but it is not the end of the world if you kb --> envenom

And skip the first one

[pearl mauve]

Ye i do ofc
Still gotta press CD at some point

Unless there’s a no CD variant ?

[normal mist]

There isn't

You just skip the first envenom and that's it

Assa does not feel good in low keys

And since we're forced to play kb, even less

[light quarry]

@spice surge i did a key with ds + sudden demise with an aug btw, they buff ur bleeds so much sudden demise did over 1m per mob

they also get no dmg from ur sudden demise on logs so u really make them look shit (new aug tech???)

[trim cairn]

don't need an aug to blast 1m per mob fam

but for sure SD prolly better with aug

less people you are stealing dam from amirite

[light quarry]

ive literally never had SD hit for over 1m per mob

its always 300-500k

[trim cairn]

just a regular pack

but yeah if you are getting 300-500k average you are already getting most out of it

If you really wanna get funky and make people wonder you can do the redsuck60sbang build and blast a boss for 2m+ damage

I mean you'll be doing like 45k ST dps until the boss is in execute range but hey, flashy finisher

[light quarry]

my sudden demise didnt even proc in my 21 pit on bosses

[spice surge]

It does

It just doesnt show up on the bosses in logs/details

[light quarry]

1st boss singular focus was crazy tho

did alot more than i thought

[trim cairn]

Looks about right if you have 4 extra targets to cleave on

Does around 9-10k dps on cleave dummies for me too

[trim cairn]

Could just be the fact that it only checks every bleed tick

if you have 5 people dpsing the same target you are likely to pass by a large chunk of the valid SD window before your bleeds tick and check the targets health

[narrow mauve]

Btw a question regarding that apex thingy. Ok I am aware of needing to drop it at 80 for energy reg but any tips and tricks on when to actually do it and how often to drop it?

[worn geyser]

dont drop when you dont need energy(are gonna cap if you drop)

[crude helm]

I think the apl is 200 energy or less?

[worn geyser]

seems to be 175(70%) i suppose but i mean yeah basically same thing as dont use if ur gonna cap

[golden loom]

You can also feelcraft some stuff

Like if you are at 150 energy with 5 combo points and a blindside proc and 5 seconds left on the implacable buff/envenom

You are kinda safe to just envenom because you would probably overcap in that situation if you would let it time out

[analog field]

I can;'t believe it. we had like 7 minutes for last boss of nexus on the 19 and someone kept random kicking

we timed it with 10 sec to spare

can the dk pet auto kick ?

or some shit ?

[lavish peak]

Yea

When I read that my first thought was “I bet it was dk ghoul”

[analog field]

and it spams kick ?

wtf

[cunning scaffold]

There’s no shot a DK would let that happen in a 19 lmao

[analog field]

hahahaha

yeah probably not

[cunning scaffold]

But that was probably it

[analog field]

like on one intermission where all 3 dps died, it kicked like 3 or something

funny thing is I had DM KB pot rdy

and they ressed the dk xd

[royal lantern]

it has a random 1 sec stun

not a kick

atleast as far as i know

[lavish peak]

The stun also kicks

[analog field]

Yeah I am not very familiar with some specs

[lavish peak]

I remember having dk pet kick final boss of priory when the strat was to not kick to avoid overlaps

[jovial cradle]

is there a command for what poisons to use?

for lethals tho i assume its just DP and AP in m+?

[spice surge]

!poisons

[prisma monolith]

You should always be using poisons you talent into, which means the following:

Lethals:

• Deadly always + Amplifying if you're talented into it with DTB, Instant only as a final option
  Non-Lethals:
• Atrophic/Numbing, crippling if you're talented into DTB

Wound poison damage in PvE is atrocious and should never be used

[jovial cradle]

ty o7

[analog field]

!wang

!ui

[prisma monolith]

Resources:

• ArcUI - Common UI Replacement
  AyjieCDM - Enhancements to the Cooldown Manager
• MSUF - Common Unit Frame replacement
• Platynator - Recommended Nameplate Addon (Plater is not recommended due to poor performance and bad buff filtering)
  (Jundies Profile)
  (Whispyr's Profile)
  Misc:
• Clickable Raid Buffs - Poison Reminder
• WilduTools - random QoL like melee range indicator and cursor replacement

[solar wyvern]

Did some testing with this you definitely feel it on DS when youre actually paying attention, some very real potential here but i was way too eepy from work today to really minmax it

It was wild to have tea charges banked up after 5 pulls

On the ever energy starved ds

[onyx crane]

but do you also get the green effect with them?

[onyx crane]

I see it with most regular weapons I've tested.
the effect shows up on the sub daggers but not on kingslayer or the thunderfury from legion.

[analog field]

what is the cook ?

[trim cairn]

Probs something pretty basic like cancelaura macro on envenom

Would be hilarious in that case

[onyx crane]

does anyone else here play a goblin rogue?

[trim cairn]

Cuz I been saying that shit since before I even started simping for SD

Something something broken clock and all that

[onyx crane]

so do i really have to make the choice, do i want my mage tower daggers

or do i want to see the effects

[solar wyvern]

Ye its just cancel aura envenom in aoe specifixally

Also good on fb, but less

[trim cairn]

On max stacks I am assuming?

In that case isn't everybody already doing that

[spice surge]

They are not

Nor are you, so idk why we yappin

[spice surge]

Ye idk i tossed some extra ct in there just for fun to proc a tea, not sure if worth

[worn geyser]

does the sim for it already account for not doing it when you have DN up, or do you just not gaf about the rapid injection buff in aoe with max stack

[spice surge]

Did not seem to matter

[worn geyser]

weird, its also no diff if I just use a /cancelaura by itself, like manually press cancel aura, then manually press envenom myself?

[spice surge]

You can do that yes if you want

But you dont want to sit without an envenom buff up on your melees for fun

[onyx crane]

it strangly only happens when I have it equiped in my mainhand...

I am at my wits end here

[worn geyser]

yeah, it will be basically instant envenom, I just spam hella so i dont wanna accidentally cancel aura the 20 implacable you get after envenom

[trim cairn]

Sure, I guess that's why I brought up doing it months ago

Next on the menu is admitting SD isn't padding

Coming in another 2 months

[loud light]

oh look he's at it again folks

who could have seen this coming

[spice surge]

You cant be saying "i thought everybody was doing it man it is so obvious" when you are not even doing it yourself

[analog field]

The point is that everyone thought of it but no one would do it for like 1 % gain cause it is cringe. If it is 10 then yes we will do it

[trim cairn]

I am doing it myself though lol

Just cba doing it 100% of the time

Busy minmaxing SD procs

[storm forum]

IIRC, we did say it was an extreme edgecase like a month ago to do it in AoE if cancelling the aura would result in more drive envenoms, but the only case we thought of for this was at the end of a pull where if while we waited for the buff to drop, things would die

i am very surprised that this is a real thing to do every time

cause in big AoE we are already so saturated on energy

so we're just hitting envs at max energy/max apex stacks

[worn geyser]

DS can get very dry on energy still unless aoe is actual massive like alg first pull

[storm forum]

but like I guess it makes sense cause the sims are like 3 minute 10 targets

and yeah

DS definitely benefits more

[trim cairn]

Wanna know who benefits even more?

SD

[storm forum]

i mean if im running SD, it's a low key I'm turning my brain off for

[loud light]

okay but imagine if you just turned your brain off all the time

[analog field]

You mean the default me ?

[runic hinge]

Same

[trim cairn]

And that is why SD is a shit build for you to play I guess

You can do 200k+ dps in logs in 18s with SD build so idk why people yapping about it only being good for low keys all the time

[storm forum]

i mean

we were recommending it for up to 14s like 2 months ago

we have like 20 more ilvl since then

[analog field]

also in 18's chaining is almost the game

so SD is not that good

it's rare needing to kill the shitters for rp

[trim cairn]

Tell that to my tanks idk

Pulls looking like the toothline of a shark

Or just straight up going afk after a pack dies

[analog field]

dude idc and no one does about your random pug tank

We all have bad tanks

what's the point\

[spice surge]

Demise build is fine, slightly worse than just playing other builds in most scenarios, but its especially bad on pure ST

[storm forum]

i mean, SD might pad more with chains tbh, cause when we're trying to reup bleeds on the new mobs, then we're spreading full bleeds on <30% mobs from the last pull

[trim cairn]

Fatebound irl coin flip between being outraged and not caring

[trim cairn]

You wouldnt be padding in that case because with the regular build you'd be getting full value from your bleeds in the first place

[analog field]

you fail to understand some basic things

[storm forum]

i

i dont think the mobs from a past pull dying with 15 seconds of bleeds on them

is getting full value

we're a DoT class

we never get full value from DoTs

in m+

[trim cairn]

That's the point

The first argument for why SD is bad is that its only doing damage that is already present on the mob

So SD isnt doing any damage that isnt already there

even worse, its only doing 2/3rds of the value of the bleeds on the target

So you even lose damage on it

[solar wyvern]

This is a phenominal exchange

[storm forum]

im too brain damaged for this

[loud light]

this is every day in this channel now

[trim cairn]

Not every day

I'm busy in monk channel too after all

[solar wyvern]

Biggest issue with SD is simply boss damage and how it makes a bad boss dps spec worse

Simple as

[versed mica]

SD should be full bleed damage and should be baseline

Change my mind

[loud light]

is your SD thesis even based on anything besides pit of saron

[solar wyvern]

Btw ive played sd im not talking out my ass

[trim cairn]

Not really since I barely play my rogue these days

[solar wyvern]

Its close to being good ngl, but it just lacks on st

[trim cairn]

I know fam, I have never said SD is better than the other build

[analog field]

I think with the nerf on the talent and the weird pathing, it loses value

[trim cairn]

Just have an issue with the two arguments against it not really making sense in practice

[versed mica]

Blizzard too scared to buff sin, it's powerful

[solar wyvern]

I see i interpretted this as such a statement, carry on then gamer

[storm forum]

im still confused by this statement

like SD is good because it does the damage that's present on a mob

[trim cairn]

Ok guys I broke this guy

He is now arguing my case

We have officially swapped roles

[storm forum]

?????

[trim cairn]

Yes, that is why I personally find SD good

[storm forum]

the point of SD is to steal damage from ur rivals on the meters

when they've stolen it from us by killing targets with 20 seconds of DoTs for decades

it's the talent build of revenge

[spice surge]

There is a way do demisemaxx even harder, at the cost of more ST.
Dropping cb for 1 point in supercharger is genuinely fine, but for big aoe sims it shows as a gain to drop tea too now

Not getting FI though

So only +2 to your big rupture

[storm forum]

Wowee this is so cursed

[trim cairn]

Nice

[mortal crag]

You can tell it’s late in the season

[trim cairn]

redsuck60sbang build soon to be meta

[storm forum]

thanks Eleem

[trim cairn]

oh wait no forced induction

my bad

[storm forum]

for ruining my guild's weekly keys

[spice surge]

CB just seems meh

[storm forum]

as I walk up to a boss with my trinket desync'd

[solar wyvern]

Weekly 10s tww bleed build is so close

[trim cairn]

It doesnt apply to rupture?

[storm forum]

and do healer damage

[spice surge]

no

[trim cairn]

huh

[spice surge]

Fairly sure rupture doesnt even consume it

[trim cairn]

TIL rupture isnt a finishing move

[runic hinge]

You were gonna do that anyways

[storm forum]

true

[solar wyvern]

I appreciate evis and sec tec being in both

Sub is such a clusterfuck

[storm forum]

what is that chart for?

[solar wyvern]

Oh wait

I misread

[loud light]

that's the whitelist for cold blood

[solar wyvern]

I thought it was seperating what is and isnt whitelisted

[loud light]

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=1264297/cold-blood

[storm forum]

oh i see

i guess that makes sense

[loud light]

nah it's like ancient spell IDs they just threw in there

[storm forum]

blizz hates snapshotting now

[loud light]

for old versions of evis

[spice surge]

Its not old versions, its new versions

Its the clones

(and shadowed finishers)

[storm forum]

so having something like "ur next rupture has 10% higher crit on each tick" does sound like something they wouldnt like

[trim cairn]

Ngl

[loud light]

this tooltip is great
https://www.wowhead.com/spell=245691/eviscerate

[trim cairn]

Why doesnt this have the same kind of description of what applies?

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=381640/lethal-dose

[loud light]

welcome to wow tooltips

never trust

[spice surge]

Because its not a whitelist

Its scripted

Why you might ask

Who knows

[trim cairn]

Its just so dumb because it literally only says lethal poisons or dots

but I am fairly certain last time I asked about it

non lethals also count

[storm forum]

it says weapon poisons on that tooltip

[spice surge]

Sometimes blizzard doesnt code a spell within their nice and handy framework

Instead they just do it in a script on their side

[storm forum]

also iirc during one of the prepatches they stopped lethal dose from working with non-lethal poisons

[spice surge]

Yerp

[trim cairn]

Oh so it's working like intended now

[storm forum]

but also they've been constantly reverting changes accidentally so I wouldn't be surprised if they accidentally turned it on by accident in a hot fix and it's only like 1% so no one noticed

[trim cairn]

read the second part

deal 1% increased damage to targets for each of your *lethal poison *or *damage over time *effects on them.

[storm forum]

oh yeah

misread

[analog field]

it used to say

they changed it

[storm forum]

i just missed the lethal in that second part lmao

[spice surge]

This is the pre 12.0 version

[trim cairn]

Ah okay that makes more sense

So non lethals havent been working with it since 12.0?

[storm forum]

i like that our non-lethals are doing 1% extra damage per DoT, even if it's 1% of 0

[worn geyser]

im tweaking i swear i asked about this like 2 months ago and was told it counted.. so crippling does not count for lethal dose?

[trim cairn]

exactly the same I'm thinking right now 😛

[storm forum]

whoever said it was probably behind on the info

it might've been me tbh

[analog field]

Someone checked like 1-2 months ago

[balmy condor]

non-lethals don't count

so you can drop crippling

[storm forum]

no

i wanna slow the mobs