i think most og rogue players dont like where rogues at
#assassination
deft vault
I like the new crimson tempest a lot feels much better spreading dots compared to before with IC and restealth being kinda important now it barely feel like restealth matters
shell plaza
i think most og rogue players dont like where rogues at
most - maybe youre right, personally i like it atm and i play since 2005
balmy condor
most og rogue players are very big fans of the assassination changes
rugged basalt
I like the CT changes but I hear many people dislike it
balmy condor
outlaw and subtlety have their own issues
keen raven
im talkin ab rogue as awhole
warped moon
it seems like blizzard doesnt know what it wants rogues to be
deft vault
I just wish we had an aoe finisher
shell plaza
"sub too easy" crowd is big
keen raven
b4 rogue felt like each spec had its own purpose/uniqueness
now theyre all just kinda meshed
warped moon
i dont like outlaw
balmy condor
The biggest critique I've heard about sin is "wahhhhhhhh my energy", which has been the complaint since 2004, or they're bitching about CT being a button when fok exists, which like... yeah, that's the point
outlaw having dead gcds is a bit weird
sub is kinda dumbed down pretty hard and is held together with jank
keen raven
tbh they just need to add back energy restore on a death with ur bleeds
keen raven
and spec would feel great af
deft vault
Jailer assa was peak
warped moon
i just dont like outlaw as a spec :x
balmy condor
tbh they just need to add back energy restore on a death with ur bleeds
that is still a thing
warped moon
pirates 🤮
keen raven
that is still a thing
more
shell plaza
gen z spec 
balmy condor
and then we go back to rupture sniping 
keen raven
i loved that ngl
balmy condor
you and no one else
shell plaza
hate that shit
deft vault
That shit was ass
rugged basalt
I liked outlaw a lot 😭 but was so awful at it that I pivoted out
warped moon
bleh!!
balmy condor
bring back upper karazhan so we can run this trinket
and then rupture sniping is literally a dps loss unless you have a mouseover macro
WOW!
every time upper kara was in rotation
I was praying to fucking god that we wouldn't play this fuckass trinket
just to avoid having to do degenerate rupture snipe bullshit
it's so turbo cancer man
warped moon
it would be nice to have some noteworthy utility
balmy condor
yeah
shell plaza
this might be even
worse than the cringebox trink
balmy condor
rogue utility is kinda dire
deft vault
Aoe blind with the dr is nice no?
warped moon
i just feel like the theme is weird its like, u have subtlety the stealth nerd then u have assassination the dot weirdo
and then theres outlaw
and its like what are we doing
balmy condor
Aoe blind with the dr is nice no?
yeah so now we have half the aoe cc of other specs with none of the raid utility
good first step to give us back the thing we already had I guess
warped moon
replace outlaw with a mid-range dagger thrower or something idk 🥴 pirates 🤮
shell plaza
replace outlaw with a mid-range dagger thrower or something idk 🥴 pirates 🤮
crossbows / pistols
balmy condor
bro imagine instead of needing a sword to play outlaw
you need a gun
and you can't use a bow
has to be a gun
warped moon
ya like old combat spec stuff + a little range but not a lot of range
muted hornet
heya guys, i just check the buff/nerf for 12.0.5 but i am not sure to understand everything, rogue assa and sub got az little nerf and oulaw a big buff ?
wich one is strong anf fun for m+ ?
assa will get stronger ? :
i am sorry i got a very bad english i hope someone understand and i am not sure that this is the good channel to ask :/
balmy condor
primal parrot
balmy condor
heya guys, i just check the buff/nerf for 12.0.5 but i am not sure to understan...
assa got nothing, sub got a decent buff, outlaw got an insanely giga buff
deft vault
Im fine with us having fuckall utility and them giving us big dam instead lol
balmy condor
yeah but you know they can't do that lmao
spice surge
heya guys, i just check the buff/nerf for 12.0.5 but i am not sure to understan...
Deathstalker got quality of life, trickster got insano buffed
muted hornet
assa got nothing, sub got a decent buff, outlaw got an insanely giga buff
nice thank's
warped moon
sorry but big dam reserved for shatter bc frost mages need it bc they have no utiity
balmy condor
Deathstalker got quality of life, trickster got insano buffed
"quality of life" he says and we all laugh
deft vault
yeah but you know they can't do that lmao
Wish they did 🥲
warped moon
🥴
spice surge
"quality of life" he says and we all laugh
primal parrot
"quality of life" he says and we all laugh
balmy condor
to be fair, deathstalker feels pretty decent on sub
mostly cause you're cycling the mark three billion times a minute
balmy condor
yeah I'm 1.1k ds sub for alleria
spice surge
Ye it's quite neat
balmy condor
my biggest problem now is that our pushes are inconsistent
so every now and then my p1's look like this
but then like the mage fucks up or something dies a little weird timing
and it's just giga fuck dam
and I have no control which one happens
hearty seal
i think most og rogue players dont like where rogues at
which OGs
vanilla OGs? WotLK/Cata/MoP? Legion? SL/DF?
because if you ask all of those, you'll get 8 different answers
spice surge
and I have no control which one happens
Surely that has to do something with the debuffs being applied differently
balmy condor
yeh but the arcane mage is just
ripping the 3rd add
to actual shreds
and my 3min cds
spice surge
Because sub aint got that much variance (oh btw the cloud cover change pushes up the standard deviation of sub by 0.6)
balmy condor
are just turbo fucked
or I guess my 1:30s
like this is 3rd add on some pulls
okay I guess
spice surge
Magician stronk
balmy condor
yeah I mean it is what arcane does
he's afk for the rest of the fight
but such is life I guess
golden loom
he's afk for the rest of the fight
the funniest thing I've seen is feral druids damage graph on lura
dw guys I spike 8:30 min into the fight!!
fallen charm
Basically assa pov on every fight
fallen charm
If we wipe before execute "trust me guys, I don't suck ass"
golden loom
rank 1 assa btw
his p1 damage isnt even that bad
spice surge
golden loom
but just afk in p2
vestal wren
did you see ronkels one?
balmy condor
his p1 damage isnt even that bad
yeah you wanna know why?
vestal wren
where his guild mate (hunter) was iirc death for 1 minute or so and still outdpsed him
spice surge
Bruh
golden loom
gotta do what you gotta do
balmy condor
I mean he has to hold cds for p2 anyway
so they're back up regardless
but good lord
fallen charm
So this is the secret strategy
fallen charm
balmy condor
like alleria parses are all in p1 because the amps are so dummy big
fallen charm
But is assa unplayable on Alleria or are you just min maxing?
balmy condor
and if you have an arcane mage in group
you actually just lose
because the mage will drop 700k in p1
and then afk
golden loom
how will logs look on it after changes, the damage amp stays right?
but the small adds are gone
balmy condor
like this was a good p1 for me
but whoops
guess the arcane mage
decided to press buttons
my bad
vestal wren
and they say, arcane mages have no hands
balmy condor
But is assa unplayable on Alleria or are you just min maxing?
assa is fine, but it doesn't do anything until p3 kinda
so I just
cba
and the 1100 haste ds stuff was interesting
golden loom
there might be some stuff breaking with arcane mage + aug evoker for damage break downs
rugged basalt
are there adjustments you made h->m?
balmy condor
there might be some stuff breaking with arcane mage + aug evoker for damage brea...
yeah so the fun thing about this, right
golden loom
with touch of the magi not attributing damage correctly
balmy condor
the prescience ain't going on the mage
balmy condor
are there adjustments you made h->m?
wdym
warm vortex
I think whispy should get the pi and also be the augs personal buff dump
golden loom
idk im too dumb to understand but I just heard max talking about something being fake with arcane mage on L'ura which made them swap back to frost
warm vortex
(Ik that isn’t possible anymore but believe)
balmy condor
I think whispy should get the pi and also be the augs personal buff dump
if I get pi as a sub rogue I will kill the priest and then myself
warm vortex
Tbh at least it’s not outlaw
You’d just skip right to the end regardless
opaque relic
!tricks
prisma monolithBOT
brazen maple
In an aoe pull, 10+ mobs, do I spread all bleeds and then go into DM KB? Or do I wanna get into DM KB asap?
balmy condor
I think it's gotta be better on outlaw surely
spice surge
if I get pi as a sub rogue I will kill the priest and then myself
Hey its better on sub than on brewmaster atleast
vestal wren
XD
fallen charm
If you pi an outlaw I'm pretty sure you break like 4 or 5 laws of physics
balmy condor
I'd rather pi our blood dk
but the blood dk would probably bitch about how it messes up their gcd timing
spice surge
Is what bloodmallet says
balmy condor
yeah
spice surge
But ye big stinky either way
balmy condor
that seems reasonable
golden loom
but the blood dk would probably bitch about how it messes up their gcd timing
"broooo our priest just killed me cause my deathstrike went off too early"
vestal wren
it still sounds worse to pi an outlaw in my head
warm vortex
Hahaha
fringe spear
Oh its a dps gain for brm now?
spice surge
Worth noting that guardian is in the top 10
vestal wren
don't show me evidence to break that happy world
warm vortex
I mean
PIing a rogue is already troll no?
balmy condor
"broooo our priest just killed me cause my deathstrike went off too early"
replace priest with evoker and this is something that I've heard about a dozen times this tier
spice surge
Oh its a dps gain for brm now?
More auto attacks
crude wigeon
Worth noting that guardian is in the top 10 <:kek:365510869557444628>
I love getting gapped by guardian
golden loom
replace priest with evoker and this is something that I've heard about a dozen t...
I've only heard our 2 blood dks bitch and moan this tier (mainly cause they are unholy dk players forced to tank dragons)
balmy condor
our blood dk was getting omega turbo tilted about reversion or some shit
I wasn't really listening
warm vortex
As usual
balmy condor
but something about presvoker and blood dk
warm vortex
Jk love u
balmy condor
and the dk was just crashing out
for the presvoker skullfucking their death strike
I have no clue how either of those specs work
but it was funny
vestal wren
touche
balmy condor
I just use the coup/bp macro and the sectec/dance macro
and I pretend that the other ones don't exist
because I don't want to understand
crude wigeon
balmy condor
eleem has explained it to me on like 3 separate occasions
and I smile and nod
and kinda get it
and then immediately forget
because it's so jank
yes of course eleem, dance/storm macro
sounds great dear
crude wigeon
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1320599387566506065/1326573955774939277/m...
Mfw raid
vestal wren
3 buttons and 4 macros
Perfect for the upcoming Xbox release, grab your controllers and dive right into the World of Warcraft
(for legal reasons, this is a joke)
spice surge
because it's so jank
Yeah they made sub really simple, but then added a bunch of non-gameplay jank
balmy condor
Yeah they made sub really simple, but then added a bunch of non-gameplay jank
I just always build to 6 and enter dance with a sectec and just pretend like I know what I'm doing
spice surge
Great design when i spec out of a talent that gives combo points into a no-dps talent because the one that gives combo points is a dps loss
balmy condor
something apex on the finishers or whatever and it works on its own but I play ds
vestal wren
🙂↕️
balmy condor
so if I don't see the blue man on my big kaboom
I press the strike button
and then I see blue man
and now kaboom
very good yes
makes sense
crude wigeon
💥
vestal wren
perfect
crude wigeon
Rocket science
spice surge
and then I see blue man
Yes deez nuts require blue man
warm vortex
I think Whispyr has lost it
Or rather
Lost it again
balmy condor
excellent spec
vestal wren
ill send that to the guy that asked me the other day, how he can improve his dps while playing the one button rotation
spice surge
Trickster never blue man, only woosh woosh
warm vortex
???????
golden loom
something apex on the finishers or whatever and it works on its own but I play d...
This guy is entering dance on high combo points as DS, arrest him!
balmy condor
I'm so fucking cooked on alleria tomorrow
vestal wren
Trickster never blue man, only woosh woosh
but woosh woosh needs to wait for stab stab to get to bling bling of full cp
balmy condor
I don't understand why I would not enter dance on high cp as ds
and I frankly don't care
spice surge
but I thought blue man for <:coupdegrace:1278274362180632586>
Within margin in simc
golden loom
The cats coming out again
spice surge
I don't understand why I would not enter dance on high cp as ds
Because of jank and bugs, as per usual
crude wigeon
The storm macro cant hurt you its not real @balmy condor
balmy condor
more combo point talent is a dps loss
idk how that fucking spec works
I just push evisc and pray
open fuu guide
go "yep strike -> evisc 35 times, good opener"
and then repeat every 20 seconds
golden loom
Get ready to backstab 7 times in a row in the opener!
spice surge
Ye no premed, but you can vanish
deft vault
Isnt premed only om pull??? Out does dancr activate premed
spice surge
So it should only be 2 strikes > 1 backstab
balmy condor
Ye no premed, but you can vanish
OH GOOD
spice surge
Isnt premed only om pull??? Out does dancr activate premed
Dance activates premed yes
balmy condor
WELCOME BACK VANISH
vestal wren
Because of jank and bugs, as per usual
think thats, by now, the spec fantasy
golden loom
Strike vanish strike backstab what a thrill
balmy condor
okay but why am I not dance+sectec on ds
golden loom
Cause you ideally would enter on low combo points
balmy condor
doesn't that turbo fuck my sectec cd cause it's 1s later
I feel like it's already tight as shit
golden loom
(also idk why )
spice surge
Ideally you'd do it when sectech has 1s left. But the idea is that you finish > storm+dance > sectech > big strike with the unshakeable drive stacks
balmy condor
bruh
unshakeable drive optimizations in my video game
get me out
I'm gonna pretend you didn't say that
balmy condor
and keep using my sectec macro
iron thorn
Just bench urself whispyr
warm vortex
If CoC was the last boss of the tier I might just stop raiding
spice surge
Also sim has it setup that its allowed to dance if DN is ready. And you cant proc apex while premed is up so you'd need to storm first to get rid of premed to proc apex on DN
golden loom
iron thorn
Idk if thats a heroic problem but we taunt swap so regularly on alleria that neither sub nor assa cooldowns end up being fully used
Like blades in p2 I just put one sectech into alleria one into simulacrum
spice surge
The annoying thing about dropping premed is that theres no bug, its working as intended. Its just purposefully designed to not work with the apex 💀
iron thorn
And kb/dm I just get cucked with a taunt swap while they still have like 6-7 seconds left
warm vortex
How many seconds?
iron thorn
balmy condor
Also sim has it setup that its allowed to dance if DN is ready. And you cant pro...
good thing I have that dance/storm macro!
rugged basalt
wdym
Actually I don’t even know why I asked bc I don’t know what crown mythic even does different from heroic my bad
balmy condor
Actually I don’t even know why I asked bc I don’t know what crown mythic even do...
p1 is the same
then mythic basically skips the first heroic intermission and p2
and goes straight to second intermission and p3
except there's alleria clones that you have to hit with the obelisk beams
there's one on a far platform, and one on the platform you're on
and then a short new intermission
rugged basalt
I assume similar to silver arrows in p1
rugged basalt
Oh nvm obelisk
balmy condor
well, the whole fight
the like
3 pronged thingy
that's on you
you have to hit an add that's like 100 yards away with one of the lines
rugged basalt
Good to know it’s still tunnel on boss and occasionally move a little
vagrant beacon
If im playing sub and change to assassination will stats be too much of a problem ?
balmy condor
you're constantly baiting mechanics or dropping a puddle or dancing out of ground aoes or aiming your obelisks and other shit
balmy condor
If im playing sub and change to assassination will stats be too much of a proble...
not a problem in the slightest
warm vortex
I’m fucking dreading CoC so much
golden loom
I can't wait for CoC cause that means paladins are dead
vagrant beacon
not a problem in the slightest
Thx! ❤️
balmy condor
I can't wait for CoC cause that means paladins are dead
little do you know
paladins is the fun melee fight
crown is hell
and beloren is also hell
you're stuck in hell
golden loom
but I dislike how impossible it is to see the shields
rugged basalt
It’s the worst experience ever…so far
balmy condor
yeah I mean I thought dragons was bad
and I was happy to bench myself on pala
and now we're doing alleria
and I wish I could go back
this tier is so melee unfriendly it's actually terrible
worst part is that during testing it didn't seem that bad
vestal wren
yeah I mean I thought dragons was bad
you can at least pad on orbs on dragons
balmy condor
but the fights went live with all the tuning and stuff and it quickly became apparent that no, actually this is cancer
rugged basalt
I get overwhelmed on council fights usually
balmy condor
you can at least pad on orbs on dragons
right.... yes
vestal wren
balmy condor
legit I held cds for the intermission add
and I was like oh this is great
apex talent does aoe
caustic spatter
big dam
whoops
the survival hunter has a boar and a shotgun
golden loom
atleast we are useful by killing the intermission add itself tho
rugged basalt
Boar snorted and killed them while you were mid thought about “oooo my cds this is gonna be so disgusting”
balmy condor
mind you, if you look at the meters, and compare it to the survival breakdown
I got obliterated
by fucking hotdog
rugged basalt
rugged basalt
He was what
spice surge
Put some respect on the dog
balmy condor
if you remove hotdog from the survival hunter
the survival hunter is still first
and hotdog is 5th
zinc frost
Hotdog bis
balmy condor
it's even more demoralizing when he plays bm in m+ for fun
and he starts building exodia
cause his other pet is named doug
and so he just specs bm
and summons "hotdoug"
I'm gonna kms
zinc frost
and summons "hotdoug"
balmy condor
it's actually disgusting
everyone bitches about MM hunter
bro plays survival
and beats our MM hunter
and he's like "yeah survival is pretty good"
the hunters are part of the wizard
down with the wizards
damn all of them to farm island expeditions
send them to the maw to give sylvanas a foot massage between torghast runs
sharp viper
right.... yes
hunter and shaman not forced to play their ranged dps specs?
old obsidian
I've heard it from too many hunters, playing that class is for commoners, ugh melee, low race
balmy condor
people can play whatever they want
subtle tundra
and beats our MM hunter
guess your MM hunter isnt very good
cause a good MM hunter fucks all the bitches
balmy condor
if I showed up to raid as outlaw no one would care
balmy condor
guess your MM hunter isnt very good
our mm hunter is pretty decent
survival is just disgusting
sharp viper
if I showed up to raid as outlaw no one would care
well, would you actually outlul? you were praising the fun of the spec
sharp viper
same but for weekly only, it is fun
sharp viper
nice to have some gear overlap between the three specs
old obsidian
Wouldn't it be better to go full single and not try to help with the adds?
balmy condor
on what
old obsidian
For example, I try to help the adds and they delete them after 3 seconds, and that's when I start :c
I feel it would help to focus all my focus on boss and forget about the adds, just concentrating on hitting the boss and performing critical mechanics
When I get to the adds I have to use bleeds, crimson and then I can't hit anymore, they're all dead
warm vortex
What boss
old obsidian
for example, Nexus
frosty cedar
Whispyr we started on Alleria and I'm convinced this is the real council boss
P1 simulator with one DK and way too many melee
balmy condor
sub is a vibe
until the arcane mage wakes up at least
then it's not a vibe
then it's just "where did that mini boss go"
primal parrot
static glacier
and he's like "yeah survival is pretty good"
Sv is elite at burst aoe
It’s all the CDs do
dire flume
survival hunter comes with a pet if i was your wife id leave too
brave stump
balmy condor
I’m the survival pet
brave stump
never saw a hunter having a strict energy drink diet for his pet
polar sail
I’m the survival pet
Youre are right about class tunning maybe next month
balmy condor
@signal ridge feeds me a steady regiment of Mac&cheese, monster zero’s, and Ben and Jerry’s ice cream
balmy condor
Youre are right about class tunning maybe next month
That’s literally what blizzard said, yes
dire flume
what pet family do you belong to
balmy condor
what pet family do you belong to
I got that dog in me
shell plaza
this sub buff is really good, wouldve loved assa to get a similar
balmy condor
Yeah you say that
frosty cedar
Assa is too op tho
shell plaza
balmy condor
Wait until you have to actually play it and you’re forced out of the smoke bomb
Or you fuck up one of the weird janky optimizations that make no sense
frosty cedar
A smoke bomb seems more thematically assa than sub or outlaw ngl
balmy condor
Then we’ll see if you really want the same for assa
balmy condor
A smoke bomb seems more thematically assa than sub or outlaw ngl
Nephew what are we saying
What does smoke bomb have to do with assa
balmy condor
frosty cedar
Like that ain't ninja shit
balmy condor
Good comms
crisp pine
I'd smoke a bomb tbh
frosty cedar
Sub uses spooky shadow stuff. I feel like legit tools is more an assa thing
spice surge
I'd get smoked by a bomb tbh
golden loom
Bring back shadowy duel
balmy condor
Bring back thick latinas tbh
crisp pine
damn they're gone?
frosty cedar
Yeah ever since the incident
balmy condor
damn they're gone?
Turned on the news lately?
crisp pine
fuuuuck
balmy condor
Say in the last…. 8-10 years?
balmy condor
Banger house
frosty cedar
Me in my cock rock house
balmy condor
In your what
frosty cedar
what
red schooner
My cock rock house
spice surge
Cock rock is like kidney stones except you know, placed elsewhere
frosty cedar
yeah but it sounds better the other way
balmy condor
Good on ya
balmy condor
Adjective sequence is actually fascinating cause every native English speaker inherently knows the order the adjectives go in but no one really ever learned it
plush umbra
you mean you don't like a red fast car?
frosty cedar
I feel like that's every grammar rule for every English native speaker
rugged basalt
This person bricked the 14 into a 13 now 
https://x.com/preyisokay/status/2046380607601590275
frosty cedar
I was speaking to an Italian friend of mine who was tryna teach me Italian and he said this an adverb and I was like wtf is that bro just send it
balmy condor
you mean you don't like a red fast car?
Old short wide smelly red car
Smelly wide red old short car
crisp pine
Adjective sequence is actually fascinating cause every native English speaker in...
There's a cool story about Tolkien where he wrote about a green great dragon and his mom told him that's wrong so he vowed to never write again
balmy condor
There's a cool story about Tolkien where he wrote about a green great dragon and...
What’s Kanye got to do with this
crisp pine
Fuck man leave me be
rugged basalt
Leave ye be?
balmy condor
Pretty sure Kanye said that too
crisp pine
This channel is gonna be my 13th reason
balmy condor
Out of how many
Also is this 13th in chronological order or is there some hierarchy you’re assigning
crisp pine
I believe lists are like lobsters so there should always be a hierarchy
remote grail
modest karma
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
frosty cedar
I believe lists are like lobsters so there should always be a hierarchy
Wise
strange onyx
Gz on new pin Whispyr
supple spindle
on the note of the new pin, what do we upgrade first + what do we fish for with bonus rolls + didn't read the pin
strange onyx
Read the pin u hag
supple spindle
no
oh forgor to also ask what do we do about the spec changes
now im done thanks
strange onyx
Upgrade necks first for most 2ndaries as they are strongest. Deathstalker is SD is better now with moveable mark and moveable Deathmark
supple spindle
Upgrade necks first for most 2ndaries as they are strongest. Deathstalker is SD ...
shouldn't i upgrade my rings next?
warm vortex
Upgrade whatever sims higher no?
proven moth
Question. If I already have a mythic dagger still go to PoS? O go back to school for puzzle? 
flint tusk
just upgrade your mythic dagger and go for box imo
iron thorn
Yeah that’s what I was thinking too
At least I won’t have to go Pit on 2 characters then
Seen enough of that dungeon lol
weary stump
Also is this 13th in chronological order or is there some hierarchy you’re assig...
And why do they need 13 reasons to praise glorp, as glorp should just be innately praised
iron thorn
gaunt herald
laugh at/with me for a second, I've only tried assass in delves so far and was wondering why it wasnt that good
any guessers xD
this is prob a common thing
proven moth
I wanna focus on one character before stressing on a second one. Thanks sinnerds 
worldly sail
laugh at/with me for a second, I've only tried assass in delves so far and was w...
forgot your poisons? 
worldly sail
gaunt herald
weary stump
trim cairn
Seen enough of that dungeon lol
I'd take PoS over the other dungeons every day of the week fam
weary stump
You could say you amplified your damage by learning this mistake
Get it, because amplifying poison
gaunt herald
🥁
weary stump
gaunt herald
the only way to apply improved garrote is from stealth right you cant refresh it with normal
weary stump
You have the 6 second window out of stealth at least but yeah
gaunt herald
gotcha so thats why we double garrote the opener
weary stump
Yeah to maximize improved time
iron thorn
I'd take PoS over the other dungeons every day of the week fam
Nah I like academy a lot
Pit definitely a top tier dungeon tho I agree
But I’ve been there like 40-50 times now
Need a change of scenery
strange onyx
Inky black potion and stinky bright potion
weary stump
Nah I like academy a lot
You might know it as talon toss
iron thorn
Mods I think skoop deserves the loa of information again
merry monolith
I find it clunky running puzzle box in m+ considering our setup takes a bit of time to cover all bleeds. Or am I just bad?
iron thorn
I just pop it after the first bleed application before going over to spread with CT now because mastery
But that might be bad
Just found it comfortable
Like garrote, rupture, puzzyb, garrote, CT
merry monolith
I guess when running 15s it more comfortable because packs don’t insta die
trim cairn
I either wait til all mobs have bleeds or if the pack is too big aka academy I make sure to at least dump a good 8 globals of CT first
imp garrote will still have 20s left and get full value from the puzzlebox then
primal parrot
str8 jorkin it
and by it
haha
i mean
my bonus roll
iron thorn
I either wait til all mobs have bleeds or if the pack is too big aka academy I m...
That lowkey sounds better
merry monolith
I was planning on running gaze and feather. Only sitting at 14% haste right now
gaunt herald
why dont we strictly use finishers at 7 combo points? why is it always 5+? more value to get at least 5 than wasting globals getting to 7?
merry monolith
You risk wasting a lot of envenom procs going for 7 combo (since lesser overall casts)
I play rupture at 7 and then envenom at 5 or more if combo proccs
merry monolith
That’s just my thought process, I’m no all star
But I do see a big difference in my overall performance with more envenom casts
gaunt herald
good to know 👍
merry monolith
I also try to enter a new pull with 6 combo, stealth garrote in to 7 combo rupture with almost full energy left
But yeah disclaimer, currently 2.6k on the rogue with 260 ilvl and doing ish 120k overall (main feral)
Crimson spreads your bleeds while FoK doesn’t, so you Crimson until all targets are bleeding then swap to FoK. It will feel clunky on bigger packs but you will do more dmg even if it does feel extremely slow
lime edge
I got a 100 parse on +11 windrunner yesterday 
stuck lodge
I think currently you finished everything at 5+, idk if it's worth it pressing another generator to get from 5 to 7
Maybe rupture is okay given internal bleeding but idk
spice surge
Per combo point spent on the rupture
stuck lodge
I thought it says it scales with cp on rupture
lime edge
Yea but how
It doesnt show duration on it per combo point
Its like hidden
Or something
spice surge
Correct
(but when its spread through CT its always counted as a 3cp rupture, regardless of what cp you used)
stuck lodge
Thats lame
merry monolith
So it’s not worth opening with 7 if I have the chance? Not using any other generator but garrote
coral ibex
not intentionally
getting to 7 is just wasting cp
if you get good crit procs and get to 7 from below 5, that's fine
severe meadow
CP 6-7 is just to help not waste points really
coral ibex
but you should not be intentionally generating more cp above 5
severe meadow
Like if you get 6 or 7 it’s cool
main bobcat
severe meadow
But never go beyond that intentionally
merry monolith
Same thinking in ST fights?
stuck lodge
Yes but consider sometimes I cannot tell the difference between 4 and 5 cp in the middle of a fight because counting is hard
severe meadow
Same thinking in ST fights?
In all content
coral ibex
Same thinking in ST fights?
always finish on 5+
severe meadow
As FB
severe meadow
stuck lodge
Ah, I only use base UI
coral ibex
cheating???
untold flume
You can change combo points color depending on amount you have
Elaborate please
coral ibex
in my christian world of warcraft???
coral ibex
i am reporting you to ion directly
stuck lodge
And miscount like a good catholic
coral ibex
wasnt the whole point of the addon purge to prevent you from recoloring ui elements based on current status
merry monolith
Elaborate please
I don’t have it right now but on my Druid I ran an addon to track when 4/5 cps
coral ibex
shouldn't that be impossible
merry monolith
It’s a UI addon
coral ibex
if you are talking about TWW it likely doesn't exist at all
merry monolith
I don’t remember the name
stuck lodge
What if I put transparent green tape over my screen where the combo points show up
merry monolith
Nah used in this season
stuck lodge
And only cover the last few
merry monolith
But there was other stuff in the addon which I disliked and wasn’t able to change so I removed it
coral ibex
i wonder if this will just natty work with whatever atrocityui uses https://www.curseforge.com/wow/addons/enhanced-combo-points
im not home to test rn
merry monolith
Idk it felt good when pushing on my Druid first few weeks because less brain power to use
sinful ice
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
severe meadow
wasnt the whole point of the addon purge to prevent you from recoloring ui eleme...
Nah, a lot of stuff has been vibe coded back in
That’s why it’s such a cluster fuck
Some stuff is still impossible I believe
sacred oyster
i wouldnt use the term 'vibe coded' here, not really correct. AI models arent trained on the specific details of the WoW addon AI in order to let AI find exploits and bypasses. if it is then holy fuck were really blowing some energy on training AI lol....
its actually a bit of the opposite of vibe coding, someone whos actually using their brain to find creative workarounds
but its a workaround, not a clean api, so thats why its messy
lime edge
Do we know how limited the voidforge upgrades are yet or no
sacred oyster
was forge on the PTR? if not i dont think anyone could know beyond whats in the news post
weak crescent
Im gonna be really sad if i have to wait a month before i can upgrade both Outlaw and assa/sub MH 
onyx veldt
Yes but consider sometimes I cannot tell the difference between 4 and 5 cp in th...
when can we play
8 pst?
sacred oyster
that would suck lol
i think it only said 5hr maint?
oh nope 8 hr
6 Eastern, usual time for patch days
thats when i get off work so not a big deal for me lol. though i would lot of times run upstairs to check vault mid day >_>
lyric grail
Anyone got the m33kaura for assa implacable apex bug?
chilly cove
yeah, i want to ask about m33kaura for assa rogue
sacred oyster
get nooka Implaccable addon, it seems to do well to let you track impac
clear ingot
How many 298 upgrades do we get per week?
spice surge
How many 298 upgrades do we get per week?
Unclear
fallow canopy
yea mh first
gleaming geyser
probs MH then puzzle box in that order regardless of qty right
jaunty lotus
i wouldnt use the term 'vibe coded' here, not really correct. AI models arent tr...
Addons are mostly open source and their code is usually on GitHub. It is 100% being used to train AI.
sacred oyster
Addons are mostly open source and their code is usually on GitHub. It is 100% be...
I am aware, that doesn't change my statement
AI doesn't have context into knowing the immediate details of the changes done with 12.0.0 and knowing the limitations
is there even a public api docs?
fresh kelp
The annoying thing about dropping premed is that theres no bug, its working as i...
you had this confirmed?
crazy
signal ridge
<@204500540992782356> feeds me a steady regiment of Mac&cheese, monster zero’s, ...
sardines soon
calm grail
Damn, so those dungeon bonus rolls just up the item to Myth track? That's sick.
barren yarrow
then it's just "where did that mini boss go"
I feel that. I'm actually rolling back to sin. The burst of a burst spec is almost unnoticeable.
Sub that is.
maybe if I got funneled everything I wouldn't be saying that lol.
agile wedge
but with the new changes it should be a burst spec again no?
desert vault
I've been back and forth between sub/sin so far, is either one really jumping way ahead? doesn't really seem like it, I like sin higher keys been fun to play, sub is fun is lower keys and raid i dunno, don't love either really, but mostly been playing sub cause meh, why not?
barren yarrow
Uhh. I haven't read it so I don't know.
desert vault
and i think the burst window for sub is going to be pretty good, about 20-25% gain in burst window
barren yarrow
the changes that is @agile wedge
misty holly
Dang it Pit of Sauron are you serious. I really wanted the Nexus Point rings in mythic. That proc consistently does at least 0.2% of my dps. Imagine how high it might go at myth level.
gleaming geyser
Damn, so those dungeon bonus rolls just up the item to Myth track? That's sick.
Yea but expect getting the item you want on the very last reroll 
coral ibex
the npx rings are a dps loss compared to most other ring combinations at max ilvl fwiw
fallow canopy
crystal delta
cant find it anywhere in any guides - what poisons do you guys use?
instant + deadly?
spice surge
you had this confirmed?
I mean not as in i specifically asked. But the way the apex is designed it should never work with premed
As it will never expend any sht stacks
fresh kelp
ah you're referring to the spending of sht not the bug with the refund
spice surge
Yeah the refund is clearly not intended
fair blaze
cant find it anywhere in any guides - what poisons do you guys use?
Amply + Deadly
fallow canopy
!poisons
prisma monolithBOT
You should always be using poisons you talent into, which means the following:
Lethals:
- Deadly always + Amplifying if you're talented into it with DTB, Instant only as a final option
Non-Lethals: - Atrophic/Numbing, crippling if you're talented into DTB
Wound poison damage in PvE is atrocious and should never be used
sacred oyster
guess that reply should be updated to add "except at high keys at the start of Caverns" lol
crystal delta
thanks 😄
cloud dune
Dang it Pit of Sauron are you serious. I really wanted the Nexus Point rings in...
I have the nexus point rings on hero track on my rogue and my mage. They're... not impressive.
lime edge
The npx rings Sim the best for me by far
cloud dune
I guess you get better value out of all the stats. I'm outlaw so the mastery ring is not great for me
lime edge
Only thing that comes kinda close is keeping the crit haste npx ring and equipping the crit mastery ring from algethar
Yea on outlaw mastery sucks right?
cloud dune
It's our worst secondary
misty holly
We like Crit on everything, with a mix of haste and mastery. The Nexus rings fit that.
I don't expect to do mythic March unless there are some insane late season nerfs to those bosses, so the double socket ring won't ever be an option.
celest helm
guess that reply should be updated to add "except at high keys at the start of C...
What do you run instead then
sacred oyster
i assume replacing amp but ppl are using wound to counter high regen rate of berserkers in caverns then switching back to normal poisons once at boss
coral ibex
i dont see any wound poison use in the top MC runs
celest helm
Hm interesting im only doing 17s so i hadnt thought about that but im really not sure its worth it still compared to prio damaging down big moh
coral ibex
i would say not worth
woxtoxic, zerocool, and casualaddict are all not running wound in a 20
i also am doing 17's and it isnt an issue
spice surge
I mean its only like -4%, which is obviously bad
But compared to the mobs healing a fuckton it might be worthwhile
royal lantern
just do more dmg
lime edge
Is healing reduction even a common thing among classes
halcyon crypt
does anyone have a addon to tell me how much adds have on pack and how many has rupture and garrote ?
i had a weke aura for that but is all gone
fringe socket
Worth to upgrade hungering victory? Or best to hold out til Pit dagger and juice that?
sacred oyster
does anyone have a addon to tell me how much adds have on pack and how many has ...
nameplates
halcyon crypt
i se the dots on my nameplates but some times i dont i like number to track
sacred oyster
if you dont see it, that means something needs to be spread lol
coral ibex
the only way to track them rn is either looking at nameplates or tracking scent of blood stacks via cdm
sacred oyster
how does tracking by scent even work? just stopping if CT doesnt cause it to increase (and by then wasting a CT) ?
i ultimately just spam it a bit at start then if i see some missing ball park 1-2 more presses
but i do recommend changing your bleed positions on name plates to NOT be above the healthbar, as that then runs into stacking issues making it hard to see if its overlapping anothers healthbar
put them to the left or right of the healthbar
analog field
just use one more CT
who cares?
in the midst of the fight looking at nameplates and trying to see if there is one mob not affected it is more of a dps loss than an extra ct
sacred oyster
?? you need to be looking at nameplates for kicks anyways
halcyon crypt
i look doing my rotation dont worry but i wanna be better
halcyon crypt
i use kick on focus
sacred oyster
to each their own, way easier for me to track by lack of icon as a predictive need to cast rather than reacting to a failure of my last cast to know to not cast it again.
stray fox
I haven’t seen nameplates that handle pulls like first AA one well
sacred oyster
thats kinda special lol.
analog field
most of the time when there are 10+ mobs you recast rupture or garrote so then you cast CT again
In such pulls you just press ct who cares
in any 10+ mob pull
sacred oyster
yeeah you arent tracking in that one
analog field
you almost never press fok
acoustic birch
do you guys expect to stay sin for the foreseeable future or slowly transitioning to outlaw?
quasi ingot
Or sub
acoustic birch
the sims these outlaw rogues be posting make me second guessing
halcyon crypt
ass or sub bugg on outlaw is coll and stuff but no enouf
sacred oyster
I'm Only Sin.
halcyon crypt
this is my plater on this pull i dont care but im some small pulls i wish to know
coral ibex
well the only solutions are looking at nameplates or tracking scent of blood
quasi ingot
Add some space between those bars 😂
sacred oyster
its plater, its harder to understand how to customize that shit lol
halcyon crypt
energi for crimson tempest and his reward for combo point is no good with less adds
is not plater
is the other one
quasi ingot
Platy
sacred oyster
@halcyon crypt then go to behavior tab in platy and adjust the stacking height, itll avoid that overlap, give it maybe little extra on clicable height
halcyon crypt
ok i will try once the game returns
eager bridge
how do you get rid of all the useless debuffs ? i just logged on my rogue for first time since leveling and my nameplates are legit not readable 😭
acoustic birch
Is Sin considered the worst option for raid progression across the board?
acoustic birch
I'm getting conflicted guidance hahaha
coral ibex
no burst, no execute, flat damage profile, different gear requirements
assa is best for prog unless you need burst aoe damage
analog field
depends on boss
acoustic birch
but what if we have multiple dev dh's frothing from the mouth when pad comes
coral ibex
then assa is best
few specs do more boss damage
and assa has the strongest execute in the game
acoustic birch
nooj i needed this validation
coral ibex
acoustic birch
outlaw enjoyers gaslighting me into thinking sin is dogwater :[
bright turret
none of the bosses this tier really benefit execute
ever since they made phase changing revolve around timers rather than HP %, execute value has stopped mattering
gleaming geyser
Do we know if we can bonus roll more than once per boss kill? not sure if blind or cant find in blue posts
sacred oyster
as in use 2 rolls on same single clear?
feels like thats something they wouldnt allow
gleaming geyser
as in use 2 rolls on same single clear?
yea, say you have enough cores to roll more than once
sacred oyster
they mean though do you gotta run the dungeon twice to use the 2 rolls, or just 1 and use both rolls
storm forum
I don't think you can use multiple rolls on the same boss kill/dungeon clear
snow kindle
oh i see
yea you gotta run that back twice for sure
id imagine its always worked that way
snow kindle
you cannot roll twice on a raid boss no matter what
storm forum
At least you couldn't back in legion, the last time we had bonus rolls
sacred oyster
well if you are gonna do chim first, that wouldnt even be possible to next week
but chim is lower prio imo and even whisp agrees and has it as last prio
get more myth slots in m+
sacred oyster
im going pit first, theres like 4-5 good things there
snow kindle
thats true pit has all crit/haste gear
sacred oyster
though i actually dont need ring as i crafted a ring and got myth Void ring from vault
storm forum
I have a myth dagger myth chest and crafted jewelry already so I think algathar is my first target
sacred oyster
though actually the ring would be better for raid over crafted ring
severe meadow
Algarthar seems to be the best all around
Pit is the best
sacred oyster
well, im still wanting kricks dagger since its BIS and rather voidforge it instead of farstriders
sacred oyster
weapon, neck, dagger, belt
storm forum
Dagger and jewelry
sacred oyster
dont forget belt
snow kindle
is that ring better than the AA ring in BiS set up or do we use both
sacred oyster
AA ring is mastery, pit is haste
coral ibex
we dont use m+ rings in bis setup
sacred oyster
the wowhead list is missing a lot of items that have equal value, as always, sim it
the void ring is identical value to the raid ring
coral ibex
yep we run belo and lura rings
snow kindle
well that seems near impossible so id imagine Pit/AA rings are best
coral ibex
ive been told multiple times the npx proc is not a dps gain
snow kindle
outside of that
sacred oyster
ive been told multiple times the npx proc is not a dps gain
i just meant from the pure stat values, the crit is so high on it
snow kindle
so many jewels options life is good
sacred oyster
i full simmed everything at 289 and the npx void ring had 0% difference to the raid ring
bleak prairie
Sorry if this has been asked already but are the deathstalker changes enough to pick it over fatebound in m+? I really wanna play it just for the funnel damage and bait and switch, but I know it’s not optimal
rich remnant
check pinned message <3
bleak prairie
Yep I figured 
Idk why deathstalker is more appealing to me than fate bound
Probably just the fantasy
Oh well, maybe next season
sacred oyster
? droptimizer is for finding upgrades
bleak prairie
Also I’m looking to play assa a bit more as I’m now pushing into higher keys (mainly play sub), this is my current gear setup, would it be possible to get a few opinions at a glance ? I tend not to farm gear in the same dungeon over and over again and just go straight for pushing keys. I kinda stopped raiding but my guild is only now starting March raid in hero (it’s a heroic Andy guild), so might tag along at one point for some loot. Much appreciated fellas (and apologies if posting the link isn’t ok)
Just the general gist of it, if it’s ok or I’m just trolling
humble verge
bleak prairie
They just casually clear heroic raid and stop, which is why I don’t raid with them anymore, I just can’t leave the discord cuz I play dnd with them on it 
fallow canopy
should be heroic harry anyways smh
quasi ingot
I’ll say my name is Andy because my parents gave me a girls name 🙂
coral ibex
should be heroic harry anyways smh
only in the new school of thought
in the original formulation everyone is an andy
its from back in the ice poseidon stream days
there was a frequent stream guest named andy
and then when other guests came on chat would just refer to them as a new andy
quasi ingot
Wasn’t it like burger Andy ?
coral ibex
lol yep
fallow canopy
wasn't familiar with the lore
quasi ingot
I remember seeing a bunch of clips of him.
coral ibex
actually originally
the original andy was andy milonakis
and then the stream sniper guy was called mexican andy
and it has only evolved from there
quasi ingot
I thought original Andy was Andy dick? Or am I showing my age? Lmao
bleak prairie
Boy am i glad I sent that message
quasi ingot
Oh..never heard of all those. Just felt like people throw Andy behind everything to try to be funny
coral ibex
they do, this is just where it comes from
burnt ember
Could it actually be that ‘Sin was buffed 0% while Sub was buffed 6%??
rich remnant
wth theres lore to this stuff?
coral ibex
and there's the branch where you replace andy with a name that starts with the same letter as the descriptor
so like discord danny instead of discord andy
etc
coral ibex
wth theres lore to this stuff?
we must document our history!
this is unironically modern cultural evolution
quasi ingot
Mythic Mike
rich remnant
Mythic Marcus?
hidden crown
Heroic Henry?!
rich remnant
Heroic Henry?!
i do like that ngl
hidden crown
glad ferry
Am I back to playin sub in keys? assa felt so good in 18s 😢
hidden crown
sub or sin for pushing keys?
quasi ingot
6% buff to sub. Sub it up bb gurl
signal karma
How do we stack up to outlaw and sub with the trickster changes
coral ibex
hard to say considering nobody has played the patch yet
i have my 18.3% haste sub gearset ready tho
signal karma
Fair nuff I assumed it'd been simmed to death
quasi ingot
I have crests ready to send for a sword for outlaw just incase
coral ibex
i think outlaw has some bug that is making it look a lot better than it should
or maybe its actually intended
i heard they're gaining like over 10% today
lime edge
Yea 13%
lime edge
coral ibex
isnt there some crit effectiveness buff that is definitely way too big
quasi ingot
Going from assass to sub is kind of annoying no? Have to get back to stacking mastery instead of so much crit
And like all my gear is haste crit currently
hidden crown
Kek
coral ibex
well someone thinks so at least
slim pebble
And like all my gear is haste crit currently
My brother in Christ sub needs 18% haste it’ll be okay
coral ibex
quasi ingot
My brother in Christ sub needs 18% haste it’ll be okay
Thank you for your insight my fellow brother in Christ.
latent kernel
Outlaw could get 50% buff and I still wouldn’t touch that fuck ass spec
gray raven
if they would get rid of the weapon requirement i'd try it, but it's just dumb
drifting path
Outlaw could get 50% buff and I still wouldn’t touch that fuck ass spec
dont you love gambling
azure bronze
Going from assass to sub is kind of annoying no? Have to get back to stacking ma...
Sub wants a lot more crit now due to the new trickster hero talent/different talents, you even run crit flask
quasi ingot
Sub wants a lot more crit now due to the new trickster hero talent/different tal...
This makes me very happy
slim pebble
Just get 700 haste (more without guidon) and then fill in the slots with whatever
quasi ingot
if they would get rid of the weapon requirement i'd try it, but it's just dumb
Yea! Real rogues only use daggers! Not big beefy swords and maces!
How much more without guidon
safe totem
hello, maybe this question has been answered a million times already, but whats the second best embelishment? i got arcanoweave insight, should i blast sunfire silk?
slim pebble
How much more without guidon
Need 800 haste without guidon
coral ibex
hello, maybe this question has been answered a million times already, but whats ...
you should have darkmoon hunt on your weapon
quasi ingot
Or double arcaneweave right?
safe totem
wrap ts up
coral ibex
Or double arcaneweave right?
maybe once you've acquired 2x myth daggers and have already upgraded every other slot
sacred oyster
maybe once you've acquired 2x myth daggers and have already upgraded every other...
still would be a question of if the extra ilvl boost on a myth oh dagger outweighs the benefits of the darkmoon hunt
viscid spear
Need 800 haste without guidon
What's the % on that
sacred oyster
Haste % is fake for sub I’ve been told
% is simply math done on the stat rating lol
slim pebble
Wasn't it 700 huh
800 without guidon
hollow river
% is simply math done on the stat rating lol
but you can see things that effect % and not rating, which do not count for the haste effects of sub
racial traits that give % as an example
lime edge
Wait when u say without guidon, u mean the trinket isnt active right
Or do u mean literally not equipped
slim pebble
Wait when u say without guidon, u mean the trinket isnt active right
No like if you don’t possess guidon you need 800 haste eating
hollow river
so its just safer to go off of the actual stat rating when accounting for sub's breakpoints
lime edge
Ooh
sacred oyster
but you can see things that effect % and not rating, which do not count for the ...
yeah there may be complexity there, in that GCD benefits may not be applied from buffs etc. where % is gonna show benefits from buffs on % scale.
lime edge
I see
fallen charm
so 6/7 items from pit of saron are goated
gray raven
by far the best place to roll especially if you have puzzle box already
fallen charm
I'll roll there every week and the gods will send me a puzzle box in the vault
burnt ember
Has anyone actually tested yet? Is sub a lot better than ‘sin after the buffs?
signal karma
Gaze gamba gaze gamba
spring needle
Do we know if we can spam the same dungeon and bonusroll it multiple times in the same reset, or is NA beta testing it for EU?
paper wraith
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
fallen charm
Do we know if we can spam the same dungeon and bonusroll it multiple times in th...
as my guild mates would say "yes"
spring needle
Good answer 🫡
fallow canopy
Do we know if we can spam the same dungeon and bonusroll it multiple times in th...
I don't think we really know but probably you'll be able to, just not twice in the same run
fickle coral
Do we know if we can spam the same dungeon and bonusroll it multiple times in th...
NA ain't doing shit, 8hr maintenance
coral ibex
infographic
royal lantern
infographic
man, why are wow players so good at making stuff look complicated
when its just "get bonus rolls, use them and get items"
coral ibex
idk i think its pretty clear
royal lantern
I picked the wrong class, my small brain caps out at Devourer DH difficulty.
good thing that this allows you to play 98% of the specs in the game then
coral ibex
i like arrows