assassination

[hearty junco]

yeah its the amp poison im after, im currently progging vanguard and its annoying to not see amp poison

[sacred oyster]

but that would require you to defocus your prio target, doesnt seem like a good idea

[hearty junco]

i dont see how that has anything to do with CT?

[sacred oyster]

right it doesnt, do you have it tracked in CDM?

[spice surge]

You cannot manually filter which debuffs gets shown. You either take the filter blizzard provides or show literally all debuffs

[rancid anvil]

What does it mean when a quill turns red on the bird boss?

[hearty junco]

tracking amp poison stack in cooldown manager?

[sacred oyster]

im not sure if that works since i dont do it, just an idea

[spice surge]

Pretty sure you can't, but also there's no real reason to

[hearty junco]

then i would still need to targetswap

[sacred oyster]

as i use CDM to track my current targets bleeds

[hearty junco]

even if it was possible

[spice surge]

No

[hearty junco]

but i dont care about stacks on my current target

i care about stacks on all other targets

[sacred oyster]

then yeah sounds like you really cant get what you want based on what eleem said

unless you complain to blizz enough to get them to give us more control lol

[spice surge]

You don't care about it on other targets either

[hearty junco]

but are we in an agreement that you should technically swap targets to envenom?

seems like its not something you do?=

[static glacier]

damage on secondary targets isn't equal

[spice surge]

Doing what you're describing is an absolute miniscule gain thats not worth the hassle and will probably just lose you dps

[static glacier]

to damage on the highest hp mob in a pack

[sacred oyster]

feels very situational. are they close enough you can swap w/o moving? are both targets equal prio?

[hearty junco]

even on a 3 target boss fight?

[spice surge]

Sim said it was +0.2% when whispyr last checked, but that assumes no missed auto attacks

[solar wyvern]

Its not really 3 target tbh

[hearty junco]

2 or 3

does not really matter

[blazing kayak]

fk wat was the default nameplate style again for your ui? i accidently changed it lol

[hearty junco]

one of em will have 20 stacks

but ok its a very low +%

[sacred oyster]

Aikar on both

[hearty junco]

good to know

[sacred oyster]

name only for the friendly one

[solar wyvern]

Yeh amp maxing is a bit cringe gameplay not really good

[blazing kayak]

i might be blind

[hearty junco]

it didnt feel too bad on vanguard

but yeah what is needed is amp being displayed on the bar

[sacred oyster]

oh you meant on that, uh it looks like blizzard health bold there but i think it was a diff one

might be blizz cast bar

the cast one and the health one are 2 diff layers, your other one should have it unless you changed both

oh i can see in the screen its still set on the health

[blazing kayak]

ah i see, i think it was cast bar

[sacred oyster]

took me a while to get them damn things aligned in a way its seemless with casting and the health edges arent showing lol

you can use the arrow keys to nudge the location but its still not too super pixel perfect

[blazing kayak]

i think u guys mightve alrdy talked about this but is there a way to hide kingsbane and death mark from showing? if i only wanna track garrote ruptures here. Not the biggest deal in the world but id prob just take them off personally if i was able to

[sacred oyster]

as said bliz controls the filter so no

[blazing kayak]

ah i see

[sacred oyster]

its either take what you get or take everything lol

[blazing kayak]

lol yea its not too big of a deal

[sacred oyster]

plater showing all the damn poisons is what made me switch to platynator

[blazing kayak]

oh yea that sounds aids asf

[sacred oyster]

i assume they fixed it by now but platynator works and is simpler

[blazing kayak]

yea the ui settings are so simple

[weak crescent]

how come platynator is able to filter itout?

[sacred oyster]

it applied the blizz filters

plater originally didnt support blizz filters, i sincerely hope they do by now though

[weak crescent]

oh i see

[sacred oyster]

its cause they made like everything with buffs "private" to addons so the addons dont actually know what the hell each icon is

they just mainly get "heres a set of icons, you dont know what the text says, but ill let you control styling details about it"

someone dedicated enough could prob crack the encryption but blizz would just then patch it lol

[iron thorn]

love assa (aa 10)

[elder grove]

I had a good first few 15 keys as assas but man I’m doing something wrong. I’m energy starved.

[shell crater]

I see the bis list is eye of midnight - is that just cos of the haste? Is it acceptable to find other avenues of gear? I want to have assa as my off spec for ST fights

[spice surge]

It's because it has 2 sockets

[shell crater]

Ah

[spice surge]

But generally bis lists are whatever

Just sim your stuff and use whatever sims the highest

[shell crater]

what kinda stat breakpoints do I wanna be heading for?

[spice surge]

None

[shell crater]

bet

[marble wadi]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fxoyVEJKkYGF4fLXAbHpHW bruh

[keen reef]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[shell crater]

I

I've never tried running two specs before so Im kinda going in blind here, I played Assa in TWW but yeah

[acoustic roost]

Although if you plan to play sub as well you wanna try and aim for 700+ haste rating. It’s not going to impact assa that much as haste is still good for it too

[shell crater]

Gotcha, yea my sub sims a few thousand higher than my assa even on ST so im guessing my main thing is gonna be swapping mastery gear for crit gear

[high dust]

crit or haste, yep, depends on what you're low on sub.

[elder grove]

Do you all pool energy between pulls in m+? I hate going into a pack with 25% energy.

[high dust]

That's usually my tanks choice, and it sucks

[sacred oyster]

thats a weird question, what are you spending energy on between pulls

[high dust]

Chain pulling I guess

[sacred oyster]

is that really 'between pulls' ?

[high dust]

1s between pulls is between pulls, pog

[balmy condor]

Np bud I gotchu

[sacred oyster]

but what is the alternative? you are engaged in combat, fresh new mobs are engaged, sitting and waiting before you start spreading bleeds doesnt even need a sim to tell you that doing 0 damage is less than doing any point of damage

[high dust]

pray that the last mob from the first group is still alive with bleeds and spray them

[sacred oyster]

sure but that doesnt relate to 'should i sit and pool up energy before i start casting something'

new mob pack, old pack still has reasonable bleeds (if not reasonable time left, just start a new with vanish), CT and spread it even if starved, get it spread as fast as you can

as getting rupture on new shitter mobs and them triggering VW will help your energy woes

[elder grove]

Fair. I feel energy starved a lot during dungeons and just getting feels for how to correct this. I’m letting implacable drop as well for regen.

[elder grove]

Ah okay ty!

[sacred oyster]

anytime CT spamming yeah you will be depleted, but its fine, your doing dmg with bleeds

but getting envenom dropped to then trigger implac will help

[elder grove]

Kay. Perfect! 👌. I hate how hard it is to track implac

[sacred oyster]

well good thing is, if your starved, its gonna drop on its own lol

[elder grove]

It was more CT spam that was causing it all g!

[sacred oyster]

well if you got targets with high health missing bleeds, you need to CT, if they are low health, then yeah dont use it just let em die by others/envenom/bomb

im guilty of refreshing bleeds i really shouldnt though lol, gotta get better on that

its like its missing a bleed must recast.... at 5%

[balmy condor]

You should be pressing ct even if it’s a low mob missing a bleed btw

[sacred oyster]

i guess yeah for VW

[balmy condor]

Just damage

[shell crater]

Trying to figure out how to work my gear around having assa as an offspec - obv my crafted gear is haste mastery but that dont really work for assa no?

[sacred oyster]

wouldnt the energy cost to dmg ratio be better to just drop envenom?

[balmy condor]

That’s fine

[elder grove]

Ah okay nice. I topped damage in the 15 but I felt that was more due to the pulling than my actual understanding of assas. It seems super fun and I’m loving it.

[sweet ledge]

in AOE opener we dont envenom before cds?

[spice surge]

Ideally yes, but not if the target will die before kb is over

[balmy condor]

The comparison to ct is fok, and even when mobs are going to die quickly, it’s more worth to get another set of bleeds out with even just a few ticks

[elder grove]

I’m doing the same thing and I think in m+ it seems less of a problem than in raid.

[sacred oyster]

well i make sure to dump w/e cp i have before KB since kb is gonna refill the CP

[high dust]

my crafted items are haste mastery too, but I work around those to get crit from other sources (IE next craft is neck this week, getting pants windsrunner...)

[high dust]

0 or 1 CP myself too.

[balmy condor]

That’s also not necessary fwiw

[high dust]

cause if KB doesnt crit, u get 6 cp

[quaint linden]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[high dust]

but looks cool.

[sacred oyster]

why not? it avoids ever over capping cp from kb

[balmy condor]

The apex cp are totally whatever

You can just ignore them a lot of the time

[high dust]

it kinda comes natural. envenom -> KB usually means u KB with 0 or 1 CP, doesnt it?

[sacred oyster]

theres no harm in doing it, then you are guaranteed to follow up with another 5+ pt env after the kb

[balmy condor]

Yah but sometimes you’ll be pulling a pack that won’t live that long, or you’ll be mid fight and already have the envenom buff and that’s fine too

[high dust]

yeah true... tho I feel weird on the opener

do u always envenom before cringebox+DM?

and then KB*

[balmy condor]

As long as you have the buff going into kb it doesn’t really matter how you do it

[sacred oyster]

i hope i can get a hero alnz to replace pb lol

and then intentionally never choose a mythic PB from vault

[high dust]

when i have to press a 5CP venom or I overcapped, with cringebox cast etc sometimes I feel its gonna drop before I can actually rpess KB.

[balmy condor]

You’re gonna be disappointed

Cause idk that you can drop box

[spice surge]

You don't need to get it from vault this season anyway

[high dust]

just wait till 12.0.5 true

[spice surge]

You can bonusroll it from playing academies

[spice surge]

Well it's in less than 2 weeks

[high dust]

21 , true.

[bleak sleet]

[sacred oyster]

i simmed, hero alnz (w/e the spelling is on that) does sim higher than hero box, and i have a myth solarflare for 2nd one. those 2 are my highest combo. id need a myth 2nd trinket.

[high dust]

call it gaze

[balmy condor]

That is

Very strange

[high dust]

im just looking to season 2 where we dont have a fucking channeling trinket as bis. that's gonna be awesome.

[balmy condor]

Who says we won’t have a channel trinket :)

[high dust]

let me dream.

[sacred oyster]

Puzzlebox v2

[high dust]

TWW S3 playing unholy DK

with that fucking disgrace from shadowlands

and now I come back to rogue, and we get back fucking cringebox. I hate it here.

[fallow canopy]

Monkey paw curls and we have to jump 3 times, stand on platform etc again

[high dust]

the only channel trinket I had fun was... I think it was from Dragonflight

[weak crescent]

TORCH

[high dust]

and before that, the one from Legion, the...gul'dan one was it?

[radiant aspen]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/ZdcCbfHWxqvDnAP6?fight=7&type=damage-done

am i good chat

?

https://giphy.com/gifs/rukaateto-rukaateto00-kid-patrick-1VAhClIh0Tkz1XvLtF

[crisp pine]

no

[split cipher]

At least we're not running away from the 3rd water droplet

[weak crescent]

I liked the branch

[bleak star]

Assas feel any diff afyer the buffs ?

[iron thorn]

more dam

always good

[weak crescent]

1% different

and sometimes

5% different

[bleak star]

[river sparrow]

is assasination doing better then sub now in m+?

[obtuse ruin]

yes

high keys

[little condor]

Does anybody have a nice plater profile for m+?

[slim zephyr]

Heya y'all, got a question concerning sub stats, is the haste cap is similar to sub '600 - 700', also for mastery is there a cap to stop at, as for sub I had 700 mstery but it shows that I need only 500 for assassination on Archon.gg

[coral ibex]

where does it say you need 500 mastery on archon

[crisp pine]

no caps

just sim

[coral ibex]

where do people find this literal garbage information

[crisp pine]

wtf is that bro

[coral ibex]

[slim zephyr]

I don't know tbh trying to learn here

[coral ibex]

read the wowhead guide

archon is useless garbage

[crisp pine]

those just seem to be the stats people have

[slim zephyr]

Normally I always follow discord but as there're no numbers here I wanted to ask

[blazing kayak]

does sin want crit or mastery flask

[coral ibex]

in 2 weeks people are equipping the items they've looted

nobody has freedom of choice to equip specific items

other than rwf players

[fallow canopy]

Just as an FYI archon is just data aggregation, so it may not give answer based on what could be best for you specifically it just shows an aggregate of what people are using

[coral ibex]

you should use raidbots.com to sim your character

to determine your best equipment

there are no stat requirements for assa

[slim zephyr]

Okay then, Ishould just sim the stats I have

[coral ibex]

yea just run top gear

it will find your best items

[slim zephyr]

Okay then, that's great thanks a lot

[coral ibex]

[spice surge]

We love haste breakpoints

It was so appreciated on outlaw so they had to add it to sub too

[coral ibex]

such bad spec design

[fallow canopy]

Do we love guidon snapshotting?

Haven't tried it

[spice surge]

You don't really

[blazing kayak]

what is it for sin in keys

im at 588 rn

is that too low

[sacred oyster]

ugh whyd you make me retest it, i must of messed something up in the previous sim https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gbMXsut1LTeaepJgEZNovp

[subtle tundra]

you need 679+

[balmy condor]

Yeah that’s more like what I was expecting

[sacred oyster]

i was enjoying the fantasy land of getting rid of pb

[blazing kayak]

sin in keys wants 679?

[crisp pine]

no

[subtle tundra]

[crisp pine]

no haste breakpoint

use the robot

[subtle tundra]

me when i make shit up

[blazing kayak]

goddamit

[crisp pine]

you do need 214 avoidance tho

[subtle tundra]

for high keys yuh

u get 1 shot on

that boss

[crisp pine]

yea that boss is fuckin rough for rogue

[sacred oyster]

"that boss"

[subtle tundra]

on korgus

[crisp pine]

I can't believe they haven't fixed the feint bug there

just doesn't work smh

[sacred oyster]

which dungeon is korgus

[subtle tundra]

i forgot its name

the one with the

mmmmmmmm

the prison thing

[crisp pine]

yea

[sacred oyster]

pit of saron? the 2 ice rock things?

[subtle tundra]

its like a prison

idk the name

[crisp pine]

This world is a prison :(

[blazing kayak]

does sin use lights potential or something else

for high keys

[subtle tundra]

sim reckless pot

[blazing kayak]

also do i got crit or mastery flask

[subtle tundra]

maybe good maybe bad

[blazing kayak]

yea i think wox was using

reckless

so i was curious

[subtle tundra]

just copy casualaddict

whatever he does

or zerocool

[balmy condor]

I don’t think it particularly matters what potion or flask you use

Reckless Will DR to shit with puzzle box though

So gotta make sure it either hits crit like in sims

Or just use lights potential and forget about it

[subtle tundra]

use pot before box

?

[waxen oyster]

light's potential less brain

therefore better

[balmy condor]

Ye

[subtle tundra]

i dont even know what the pot does!

[balmy condor]

I know

[coral ibex]

makes you do more damage

[sacred oyster]

well i can guarantee my sim confirmed LP was 1% better IIRC. im not really sure why that would ever differ for others

[balmy condor]

Because others won’t have as much crit for example

[waxen oyster]

1% is a buy whatever is cheaper

angle

[balmy condor]

Sub -> sin rerollers sometimes have reckless being slightly better

[sacred oyster]

wtf state would you be where crit isnt your highest? you may not have as much crit, but the bonus from reckless is static, and crit should still be your highest secondary?

[balmy condor]

Prefired

[waxen oyster]

what whispyr said

[sacred oyster]

i guess someone in sub gear that makes sense

[waxen oyster]

by gear its mostly a jewelry swap

because lmao the stats are similar enough

besides sub's haste tax

[sacred oyster]

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/rogue/subtlety/stat-priority-pve-dps#stats-mythic ? has crit as #4

so wouldnt sub be using mas/has weapons etc?

[vestal wren]

3rd

vers is 4th

[sacred oyster]

man i mjust repeating the number on the page which lists agi as #1 lol

[vestal wren]

you essentially go to roughly 700 haste, then go in mastery/crit

[subtle tundra]

me when i just blindly follow a written guide

and have no thoughts

[balmy condor]

The guide exists to give you thoughts varas

[sacred oyster]

well good thing that isnt me.

[subtle tundra]

brain empty

cant have thought

[balmy condor]

You’re just like my rdps

[subtle tundra]

are you playing crown of the cocksmos?

[sacred oyster]

but someone who is sub main, while they may have some gear swaps for sin, i could see them still not having crit as the top secondary stat, so i can see why that may make reckless a different question

[balmy condor]

Yeah but I’m out on paladins thank god

[sacred oyster]

though actually, wouldnt that actually bias lights potential more then

[sharp viper]

[safe kestrel]

okay, did a few keys, 3 question:

1. why are we SOOOOO slow? can't we take Shadowrunner somehow to at least get a bit of movespeed when he stealth?
2. how do you manage tricks? i'm so used to 1hr tricks I keep aggroing random shit cause me dumdum. can I macro this?
3. in keys, with the fatebound m+ talent, how do I deal damage to bosses? when I pop cds my dmg goes brrr, sure, but outside of cds I have no energy whatsoever, like I'm playing autoattack simulator for 2 minutes just waiting for DM to come back. and if I go into a boss fight without DM up, I do like 30k dps

[sharp viper]

I should reroll dk or ranged dps

[subtle tundra]

1. we arent slow wtf are you on
2. you just press it at the start of the pulls, youre an assa you dont do much aggro so its kinda irrelevant
3. thats assa. you cant do much more in m+ st

[crisp pine]

you can swap toxic stiletto for shadowrunner if you really want to. but soothe is kinda cool

Ive never used tricks in my life cause I'm just that good

gotta play around the apex talent a lil

tricks is the most overrated ability I'm sorry

[sacred oyster]

take off that shiv talent and get shadowrunner.

[subtle tundra]

if you get aggro as assa often then its a tank problem

he might be dented

[sacred oyster]

#2 get TanksMD

[balmy condor]

1. Sure I guess if that’s important to you, just drop something at the top of the tree, it’s all utility points anyway
2. I don’t even press that shit most of the time I’m ngl, there’s an addon you can use to auto target the tank if you type !tricks
3. That is how burst specs work yes

[safe kestrel]

!tricks

[prisma monolith]

Auto Tricks on tank Addon - TankMD

[sacred oyster]

i use tricks so i can start spreading bleeds faster than I should be at the start of the pull. but then other dps sees me start and they start blasting too, pull aggro and die

[crisp pine]

that's awesome

[balmy condor]

That’s just bad tanking

[safe kestrel]

I have a tricks macro that writes another macro with the tank's name

but I kinda need to macro tricks onto every single one of my abilities or sm shit

or just learn to play honestly

cause I've been playing sub for months now

[rugged basalt]

yk what i just did a 12 and it was bricked bc every person died 4 times except me and the tank. I think I've got what it takes to push to 3k 😭

[safe kestrel]

and trickster is cheating

[sacred oyster]

how does a tank lock aggro on every mob they aggro in the first 5 seconds of a pull? iirc not every class can do that, specially if its just a body pull

[dire flume]

the hardest part of pushing to any amount is always the pugs

[subtle tundra]

they press their damage abilities

its not rocket science to get aggro as a tank

[dire flume]

bear cant right now unless they get lucky ravage procs

thrash threat modifier is so dogshit

[primal parrot]

Whispyr is not real he cant hurt you

[rugged basalt]

its all ive ever known time zones suck so i cant q with my friend except once every 2 weeks or so

[balmy condor]

Tank aggro is legit like sky high unless it’s a bear

They just sneeze on shit

[analog field]

bear with moon fire is more threat than our dots wtf are you guys talking about

[severe meadow]

We’re probably running two rogues on paladins

[balmy condor]

And have aggro

[analog field]

like the modifier is x10

they really just press moonfire

[balmy condor]

Yeah that’s enough for us

Not the rest of the group

[dire flume]

moonfire doesnt do that much

[spice spire]

Garroted a mob and got smacked from my bear tank ama

[rugged basalt]

i have never really super bothered with tricks ngl

[dire flume]

on ec maybe

[subtle tundra]

yeah but moonfire doesnt go on 10 mobs at the same time does it

[balmy condor]

Assa rogue legit cannot grab aggro unless the tank is shit

It’s not possible

[rugged basalt]

i tricks the warlock on raid pulls

[subtle tundra]

real

[rugged basalt]

they're gonna dry pull anyway

[balmy condor]

See when I do that it doesn’t work

Because assa doesn’t generate shit for aggro

[rugged basalt]

ya it doesnt work bc the warlock ends up attacking before i do anyway

[safe kestrel]

i checked some logs, my damage breakdown is exactly like the big guys that's neat i guess

[rugged basalt]

i attack on 1s remaining in /pull? wl already attacked on 3s remaining

[balmy condor]

I think the best part about tricks is that it doesn’t work on the first hit entering combat

That’s super neat

[rugged basalt]

im happy with this on seat except for the fact that it was bricked

[balmy condor]

Missed timer?

[sacred oyster]

whats your ilvl? thats about what im doing too

[rugged basalt]

they all died 4 times except the tank

[balmy condor]

I see

[rugged basalt]

274

no gaze/plume

[balmy condor]

Damage from the whole group seems a bit low, probably small pulls idk

[crisp pine]

that seems kinda low for 274?

[rugged basalt]

chain pulls and they're avg like 270

[sacred oyster]

im 270, sim for DS has me at 105k

[crisp pine]

might be a hater

[rugged basalt]

yes im not good by any means

[balmy condor]

74 on an unholy dk is actually atrocious

[dire flume]

its also a 12 right

so everything sh9ould be dying fast

[rugged basalt]

the unholy dk was criminal

it was mega chain pulled

[balmy condor]

I mean that should be skyrocketing damage then

[rugged basalt]

bc they obviously didnt trust them to live

😭

idk i did my best

[balmy condor]

You did fine

I’m concerned for the rest of them

[rugged basalt]

i go next

[dire flume]

what region do you play

[rugged basalt]

i just checked mrt

[subtle tundra]

97k overall should be bannable

[rugged basalt]

its kind of a sin i think

moon guard

[dire flume]

@rugged basalt what region bestie

[balmy condor]

Yeah that’s a group fr

[fallow canopy]

Stars aligned kinda pug

[rugged basalt]

isnt that a chicago realm

so NA

[frosty siren]

Quick question i do not think i saw the information anywhere i'm guessing we don't drop envenom during kingsbane and burst in general for the apex talent or am i wrong ?

[dire flume]

F

[rugged basalt]

my ping makes it so my dps is -10% off just latency (copious and factually untrue)

[balmy condor]

You don’t drop it during deathmark, kingsbane is whatever

[rugged basalt]

are u eu...

[dire flume]

yup

wouldve tanked for you

[sacred oyster]

it is crazy so many bad players can still reach 270's. had an HC chim attempt last night, most the group was 270+, i was so hopeful for a win.. raid leader was ironically the only lower one at like 249. but fucking hell everyone missing their soaks, ironically the raid leader being the worst one. i dont think he hit a single one of his soaks, nor ever moved to pool for dispel.

[rugged basalt]

my day has been ruined

id brick ur key

[frosty siren]

ty

[dire flume]

nah

[rugged basalt]

id brick...my key?

[dire flume]

i play with other people we've had 220 ilvl in the party and timed 12+

[subtle tundra]

yes every lobotomite can get decent gear in modern wow

[rugged basalt]

holy moly

[dire flume]

we'd get you your 3k

[rugged basalt]

im not far off! 7 more to go

[waxen oyster]

idk why its surprising

they gave m+ andys free myth gear

[crisp pine]

youre missing 7 score?

[balmy condor]

I’m so lazy to get 3k I just do my weekly keys and log off

[waxen oyster]

for doing a 10 in vault

[fallow canopy]

Amen

[rugged basalt]

no 7 more keys to go i didnt m+ much beyond just the gv

[crisp pine]

oh lol

[feral hemlock]

If i want to play Sub+Assa, what is the general idea of stats on crafts? Dagger with Haste/crit?

[rugged basalt]

they did make m+ a lot more beginner friendly so it makes sense many people have a higher baseline ilvl

make sure u craft

daggers of the agility variety

[dire flume]

coudlve joined such fun as

[waxen oyster]

until you get xenas with a bad healer

usually rdruids

[rugged basalt]

i did nxp with 12 first i am so not touching that again unless its a 13 or 14

[crisp pine]

holy frost cucking the outlaw

[sacred oyster]

druids feeling so week this expac to me

[waxen oyster]

they arent

lol

[rugged basalt]

OUTDPSED BY THE FROST?

ignoring the druid in the room

[waxen oyster]

rdruid just is less idiot friendly slightly when you cant top someone in a global

[dire flume]

the outlaw is a rat

[rugged basalt]

aren't we all

or did you mean rat derogatory

[severe meadow]

Excellent..

[rugged basalt]

@warm vortex

[warm vortex]

Don't shake the rat

:(

Also

Took a cool picture of my argussian crates posing with seat loot
minus the shoulders
because of course

[rugged basalt]

sorry

[warm vortex]

im only like

31 runs in i think
which is still not as bad as grace in season 1

So when i get over 40 runs it's probably going to be the worst m+ item grind in recent memory for a single dungeon
which is still rookie numbers

[rugged basalt]

having to gaslight these "morning" lobbies into taking me is most of the effort

omg its seat running it back

[primal parrot]

what that argussy do

[heady aspen]

Farms groups who fail to hit the orb.

[warm vortex]

Not shoulders

I know that much

[blazing kayak]

@sacred oyster i been messin with the settings a bit tryna get it more comfy for how i like things, do you know how id change the casters getting big thing like in this image. im fine with the casters just bein normal and not popping up or getting bigger

blocks too much view for me personally

[sacred oyster]

under behavior tab

lol did you move the cast bar back out?

[blazing kayak]

lol yea i tried it with a key but it was like covering the health bars, ima try both again and see which i like better

i think i just gotta scale it all down a tiny bit. i like it overall but theres a few things that im not used to i think

i didnt think going from cast bar under to inside would fk with me so much lol

[sacred oyster]

was the entire point to make it more minimalist. ive personally notm inded not seeing health if they are casting something.

youll need to adjust stacking and clickable heights if you have castbars outside

[blazing kayak]

yea tbh i just went from using default ui to platy for the first time so no matter wat im sure its gonna take reps to get used to

maybe its the pop ups thats throwing it off for me then

[sacred oyster]

ive liked the minimal height approac for when you have a ton of bars on screen they stack cleanly with bleeds on left, nothing much overlapping

[blazing kayak]

ill try putting it back inside the health bar

which one would fix the popup casting

[sacred oyster]

everyone with bleeds on top is bothering to me when the bleeds for 1 mob is blending into another mobs bar

[blazing kayak]

ill try putting castbar back inside

[sacred oyster]

On Cast/Target Scale

[blazing kayak]

and take the popup off and see how that looks

[sacred oyster]

you could dial it down some but leave it slightly larger

im on 1440p resolution so if you are on 1080 i can see that being too large

[thorn thorn]

How so

[lime edge]

Why is my hungerer trinket better than every m+ trinket for single target

[hazy ether]

Hey guys,
How can I track the Implacable buff? When the energy regen buff is active blizzard doesn;t show the new stacks

[severe meadow]

Improved drastically from TWW

he’s been in for most of our prog

[balmy condor]

!implac

[prisma monolith]

Implacable is bugged in Blizzard's Cooldown Manager, there is no way to "fix" it.

Until blizzard fixes it, you just have to either count your envenoms or glance at your buff bar if you're trying to be optimal. Ignoring it when it bugs is <1% loss.

[lime edge]

You gotta just count

[severe meadow]

Even got more art

[blazing kayak]

ah yea that might be why

[lime edge]

Or look at ur actual buff

[thorn thorn]

Yuge

[severe meadow]

Art for dragon prog

[rugged basalt]

I TIMED THE 12 SEAT YAY

its worse. its more cursed.

[warm vortex]

Bro

That ele was cranking his hog or smth??

[feral hemlock]

Is there a reason why i sometimes only get one CP from FoK with 5 targets hit?

[balmy condor]

not critting

[frosty cedar]

if you aint crittin ur straight shittin

[radiant raven]

[lusty kraken]

guys, when you get the energy regen from implacable do you immediately start another envenom chain or do you wait a bit to regen some energy?

[static glacier]

That comment gonna summon quake if you’re not careful

[static glacier]

Depends how much energy you’re at

[warm vortex]

How is that a bad thing

[feral hemlock]

Great ability

[warm vortex]

quake is a lovely person

[rugged basalt]

not critting, cranking, and dead

[lusty kraken]

what if I'm down bad

[static glacier]

Who will proceed to furiously crank your hog

[rugged basalt]

Hey haha

are they around

[static glacier]

Then wait til like half or more so you can start a chain again

[rugged basalt]

🫄

[fallow canopy]

Yeah imagine wanting quake to crank your hog ha ha couldn't be me... jk unless...

[lusty kraken]

alright, and should I prepare myself somehow before a kingsbane window?

let's say I am currently at 35% implacable, do I kingsbane and continue building up?

or do I let implacable drop for energy regen before kingsbane?

[rugged basalt]

i feel like they are two completely different mechs

when it comes to kb im only rly bothered about making sure i dont desync it from when im gonna use dm

(or trying to)

[balmy condor]

[lethal turtle]

make more art

[balmy condor]

why are we pooling after implacable

do not

just slam

close eyes

more envenoms

[severe meadow]

Not mine pookie

A fellow raiders

[lusty kraken]

so just build up to 80%, let it drop

build immediate after again

[rugged basalt]

stacks not %

[lusty kraken]

rinse and repeat

[rugged basalt]

and also u dont really um

care about implacable

[lethal turtle]

Very good work

[balmy condor]

ideally you just envenom the moment you get the energy proc

like hit 80, generate cp, wait, drop, envenom

[rugged basalt]

is thitea a term that has potential

[lusty kraken]

does this change during kingsbane windows?

do I still pool?

with deathmark I assume I can just slam regardle s

[dire flume]

no

remove the h then were talking

[rugged basalt]

hey

[balmy condor]

yeah you would drop during kingsbane if you hit 80

[lusty kraken]

ok, thanks

time to practice more on dummies

[rugged basalt]

yea but no h and we lose the plot

[dire flume]

titeas have that effect on people ye

[crisp pine]

Just crashed during first boss skyreach and came back with full energy

that's what I call pooling

[rugged basalt]

now im distracted from getting declined from my apps

[rugged basalt]

when ur grabbed by the bird ur pooling

[dire flume]

get to 80 implacc, tab out, shitpost in discord, come back, oh hey my energys back

[royal lantern]

THIS guys gets it

[rugged basalt]

when im here its usually when im dead or pooling btw

death is a long form pool

[rigid totem]

!ui

[prisma monolith]

Resources:

• ArcUI - Common UI Replacement
  BetterCDM - Enhancements to the Cooldown Manager
• MSUF - Common Unit Frame replacement
• Platynator - Recommended Nameplate Addon (Plater is not recommended)
  (Jundies Profile)
  (Whispyr's Profile)
  Misc:
• Clickable Raid Buffs - Poison Reminder
• WilduTools - random QoL like melee range indicator and cursor replacement

[sacred oyster]

why does that better cooldown manager have no screenshots

[storm forum]

Because developers are notoriously bad advertisers

[coral pivot]

Also, the developer stopped work on it and AyijeCDM is highly recommended

[lime edge]

Playing sin with low crit in m+ is one of the worst things ever

[normal mist]

It's 50 50 tho

Just crit

[west crown]

Wouldn’t it be optimal to get the most out inspiring strikes if we don’t need the energy?

Or is it more of a slam envenoms, wait, repeat

[twilit pecan]

Did they fix the trinket and pot thing?

[hazy sundial]

Whats your ilvl here?

[sacred oyster]

if you mean the snapshotting, yes, check pins

[rugged basalt]

274, but my next pic is more accurate for a normal seat 12 for me

[rugged basalt]

,

[safe kestrel]

question. did two sims:

1. dungeonslice: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9jPDKrvWatZi9uKng2KwvA
2. dungeonroute (AA 14): https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ioykCSd8x4JZaDn9vau6wP

dungeonslice prefers my Guidon 276 over my puzzlebox 263
is guidon good for us? or should I stick to box?

[twilit pecan]

Sry not use to discord things ❤️

[hazy sundial]

I just did +10 seat at 266ilvl

My overall was 110k

[rugged basalt]

im on 180ms and im a mediocre sinner

[hazy sundial]

Do you have alnseer and puzzlebox?

[safe kestrel]

currently running this yeah

[rugged basalt]

no gaze/plume

oh that was for them

[safe kestrel]

ah sorry

[hazy sundial]

That could be it

No, i asked you

[rugged basalt]

praying for gaze this weekend, raid on sat

[safe kestrel]

yeah currently running hc gaze and champ puzzlebox

cause i can't get a hc puzzlebox for the life of me

[hazy sundial]

Got mine heroic on this Tuesday

Instant 6/6 upgrade

[rugged basalt]

if not hc ill pug a dr lobby and try to get one anyhow

[safe kestrel]

okay, but should I consider gaze + guidon?

or we don't care about haste on keys

[rugged basalt]

I've never used dungeonroute so I can't really comment haha

[safe kestrel]

are my stats okay for sin?

[hazy sundial]

Every single Assa runs gaze/box in +15 and above

[rugged basalt]

When you simmed guidon, what ilvl did you sim the guidon to be?

[sudden grotto]

Ilvl wins there but heroic puzzle > guidon at same Ilvl.

[safe kestrel]

time to farm box.. yeah sub also uses box even though it doesn't line up with SB

[rugged basalt]

Use topgear and sim 276 for both

[sudden grotto]

Also 45 min is crazy for any dungeon time

[sacred oyster]

yooo thanks ive been wondering how the hell to pull off the custom dungeon type sims while using top gear

[safe kestrel]

276 guidon, 263 puzzlebox. 276 puzzlebox wins out easily

there's two options really

one is via https://keystone.guru/

you can import your route and press simulate, copy the simc string

other way is through MDT addon

[true tusk]

In my case, works better with haste than mastery, actually im with 37% crit 20% haste 36% mastery

[safe kestrel]

this is a custom build of MDT though and I have the simc export in the upper right corner

[safe kestrel]

that might actually help my abysmal energy regen

[autumn sierra]

Hi guys, only played Sub until now, but wanted to dip into Assa, can I macro Deathmark to Kingsbane?

[safe kestrel]

nop, both are on gcd afaik

[sudden grotto]

Would be a waste of a kb

[autumn sierra]

why would it be a waste?

i understood i use both on cd

[sudden grotto]

1 min and 2 mins

[autumn sierra]

1 less button to press

[true tusk]

Im not having problems with energy regen, 273ilvl, just try it if you want

[safe kestrel]

both spells have 1 sec GCD

so you cannot use them on one button

unless you press the button multiple times

[autumn sierra]

but I can spam this button

that was the idea

instead of having 2

[sudden grotto]

For me it’s also where you use those not when in both raid and m+ (sometimes I won’t dm until 1 min later, ie saladbar)

[autumn sierra]

since I should anyways use both on cd?

[safe kestrel]

ah sure, if that makes it easier for you

[autumn sierra]

I still can hold it, if i dont want to use the 1min cd one

I macrod Sectec to shadow dance, and kinda wanted to the same

[sacred oyster]

omg awesome i didnt know this was a thing

[safe kestrel]

perks of being a windwalker main, they have a very detailed sim guide

[sudden grotto]

Can it be done spamming the button : yes
Is it better: no
Does it save presses : no

Personally kb is a good chunk of st damage even without dm

Do what you feel is good though

[true tusk]

Btw, what addon is that? It looks really clean

[safe kestrel]

Narcissus

[crisp pine]

Dungeonroute Sims seem so cringe to me man

[safe kestrel]

this is when you double press the character panel hotkey

same

[dire flume]

never lucky

[safe kestrel]

i usually do both slice and route

that's cause you have 50 points penalty for your name

[true tusk]

Nice

[autumn sierra]

but i f i macro it

and death mark is on cd

i can still use it for kb?

[sudden grotto]

Probably, I don’t macro anything personally.

[fresh kelp]

dungeonroute with weakaura huh

[balmy condor]

yeah so the thing about this is that patchwerk 1 target 5 min is a standard for every dps, and we don't really do dungeonroute here

dungeonroute is

kinda really cringe

[sacred oyster]

@safe kestrel https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/c3nMktbDWTmxDtGMXLNxQo iffy on these dungeon slice settings its generating. look at the ability log. whys it got pull 8 stuff mixed in at the opening pull.

[lime edge]

I have like 200 haste on u

[sacred oyster]

outside of what i just noticed of it looks like its just doing things wrong, what makes it 'cringe'? having a more accurate representation on a dungeon to see how you c ompare to that dungeon is useful. i get its best to generalize for gear decisions, but its still useful info.

i wanna know why its mixing pulls though

[golden loom]

Theres no variance in dungeon route is there

[sudden grotto]

Tbh it might be a tc windwalker thing , similar to like hunters who also cringe sim.
Dslice is pretty accurate for rogues though.

[subtle tundra]

@balmy condor whats the assa haste cap?

[crisp pine]

12

[sacred oyster]

its on the WH page

[golden loom]

Think whispyr talked about dslice / dungeon route stuff in the 3 hour video

[sacred oyster]

but know you're just rage baiting whispyr

[sudden grotto]

Whispyrs hair turns grey when he looks at the chat sometimes

[fresh kelp]

Dungeonroute isn't too bad but it does kind of make assumptions that can break it. If you sim nexus point, it won't understand that you get a 300% damage amp on one of the bosses so it will overvalue single target thinking that boss will take much longer than it does. Similarly, unless you go all the way through using an entire group to sim, it will essentially just 4x your own damage so your group will burst when you do and other strange things

[sacred oyster]

i dont even watch 5 min youtube videos

[lime edge]

Why is gaze only 1% better than hungerer

[balmy condor]

it's not more accurate

it has no variance

[subtle tundra]

idk... sub is 18%
outlaw is 985 rating

how much is assa... i was told 1250-1350..

[balmy condor]

what kind of statistical model has zero variance and is considered accurate

dungeonslice literally just has all the pieces of a dungeon that you'll see, and is modeled after dungeons

[lime edge]

Haste cap? Huh

[balmy condor]

but because it's a synthetic 6 min fight style

and not a "real dungeon"

people don't fucking trust it

because they're idiots

[golden loom]

Ignore varas hes on the beers

[crisp pine]

He's mad again

[lime edge]

Sub and outlaw just have a breakpoint

Assa is just normal

[subtle tundra]

i was told in twitch chat that assa has a haste cap

[balmy condor]

so then you sim a "real dungeon" with dungeonroute

and because it's a 50 minute fight

[balmy condor]

it has zero variance

[subtle tundra]

help me..

[crisp pine]

That's awesome

[balmy condor]

you show up to the pull 16 at 39:28

and you will do so

every iteration of the sim

[sacred oyster]

i thought you were trolling, but it feels like you're confusing cap vs desired minimums

[balmy condor]

thousands of times

[subtle tundra]

i am not confusing shit

[balmy condor]

tens of thousands of times even

[subtle tundra]

i am a confused shit

[balmy condor]

and then you get overfit to the model

don't play puzzle box on this route ya know

it sims bad!

(it just doesn't line up timing wise with the giga pulls)

[sudden grotto]

https://tenor.com/view/eating-popcorn-garfield-snack-wow-amazed-gif-19321138

[balmy condor]

you pull one pack differently

now puzzle box is legit a 2.5% upgrade instead

there is no consistency between seperate dungeonroute sims

[crisp pine]

That's why u immediately leave the dungeon if the tank doesn't use ur route

[balmy condor]

like in theory, the strength would come from optimizing a route, or comparing two routes to each other

but it's INSANELY dogshit at doing both of those things

and then also doesn't give you any variance to be used as a general model

so what's the fucking point

[crisp pine]

Oke but can Dungeonroute tell me what sin haste cap is?

[analog field]

Yeah it should have like a variance in timing

like give mobs some extra duration or some less

[balmy condor]

so dungeonslice

that's literally dungeonslice

[analog field]

yeah but more tailored to the dungeon

to have a point

[sudden grotto]

Or, just dungeonslice and not care about the 0.3% difference in your sims

[analog field]

Like dungeon slice is fixed boss then 5 mobs etc

yeah ofc

[balmy condor]

like I get people aren't playing this game for 15 years at this point

but we need a history lesson here

because we are literally just repeating the steps

[analog field]

Dungeonroute is not for item comparing

it is for cd usage

[rugged basalt]

Something something stat weight sim haste stat cap something dungeonroute better /j

[balmy condor]

dungeonslice started off being dungeonroute, all the way back in legion

what dungeonroute is now, is how dungeonslice started

and over the course of legion, dungeonslice got refined

because the same issues popped up

"oh the mobs should have variance"

okay, add that

now the sim takes way too long

well if instead of pulls into boss x5, you just do pulls into boss x1

[analog field]

Yeah I agree dungeon slice is more useful for item comparison. The dungeonroute would be for routes or cd usage etc

[balmy condor]

that actually recommends the same things

it doesn't actually matter whether or not you're doing it for 45 min or for 15

cause it'll tell you the same answers

okay so now we trim it down

[sudden grotto]

Cd usage is only , use on cd /big pulls/bosses

[golden loom]

cd on cd

[sudden grotto]

Rogues don’t hold back

[balmy condor]

well now it's weird right cause you're lusting on pull, and tyrannical exists, and people want to lust bosses and also you want to have cds for bosses

[golden loom]

I sent kingsbane on a mana battery to have it line up asap with dm

[balmy condor]

does it make a difference if it's pull -> boss or boss -> pull

statistically it was determined that it doesn't

[sudden grotto]

[balmy condor]

okay so then you flip the order right

now you can lust at the start of the sim

[lime edge]

Op trinket trust

[balmy condor]

have a short sim so it doesn't take hours to simulate one dungeon

it's generalized to work across all the dungeons

and it still maintains all the stuff we know and love, restealthing, chainpulls, etc

but somewhere in that, we lost the plot

and now we're retracing our steps

back to "but it's not a dungeon"

[balmy condor]

and this argument for dungeonroute, is silly

[high dust]

how whispyr feels with this explanation

https://tenor.com/view/turles-goku-dragon-ball-dbz-tullece-gif-9485394904484613513

[balmy condor]

because there is no APL

on any spec

in the history of simulationcraft

[sudden grotto]

[balmy condor]

that can properly account for that

APLs are simply not strong enough to adjust the way you would need it to

it's not like the sim goes "oh this pack is a 4 pack, the next is 10, I'm gonna hold cds"

that can be done in theory

[golden loom]

I need to boil the ocean so I can see if its worth holding cds for 10 seconds

[balmy condor]

but it's a headache, really niche, and super unnecessary for most situations

and so it's just not been done

[high dust]

better reason than AI Slop videos

tbh

[radiant raven]

Just need Mentat's specifically for figuring out dungeon routes, imo

[crisp pine]

Is Whispyr basically saying that Windwalker are morons?

Cause he might be right

[balmy condor]

so like yes, in some fantasy land where the APLs could keep up with people demanding for it to hold cds perfectly for 45 minutes no matter what route you throw at it

dungeonroute could be great

in theory, dungeonroute is perfect

[analog field]

yeah I mean what ideally could be

[balmy condor]

you just have to add 7 things

[analog field]

in the future possibly

[balmy condor]

and then rework every spec APL

"in the future possibly"

[analog field]

From a practical pov and 99% players it doesnt matter

[balmy condor]

you realize dungeonroute has been a thing for like

3 expansions now

and it hasn't gone anywhere

[analog field]

yeah also the game is not popular

and not very e-sporty

[royal lantern]

what

[balmy condor]

[radiant raven]

Build a super computer just to simulate dungeonroutes

[analog field]

I mean in a competitive way

[golden loom]

I mean gear optimization and such is a billion times better in wow than in pro league

[royal lantern]

that some "its not #1 on twitch, so its not popular" take lol

[analog field]

to support such things

[balmy condor]

I shit you not, they tried to add variance to dungeonroute sims and it took 3 days to run the test sim to see if it worked

[crisp pine]

Have u heard of rwf

[golden loom]

you could legit provenly show that an item is awful to buy in league and every single pro player was still buying it (LS screaming from the heavens getting people to stop buying morello)

[analog field]

rwf vs e-sports is 0

[coral ibex]

boil the oceans to optimize a dungeon route that will become irrelevant as soon as your tank forgets the route

[radiant raven]

Oh, I 100% believe that.

[analog field]

If you have played some e-sports seriously

[radiant raven]

Computational stuff like that becomes immensely more dense the more stuff you add, so it makes total sense.

[coral ibex]

did you see the pic of LS streaming in silence with a facemask on

[golden loom]

yep my goat is back

[crisp pine]

E-sports is way less popular than u think it is

[radiant raven]

To properly simulate something like this you'd need, like. Super fucking powerful compute setups to realistically even begin.

[balmy condor]

you know what else dungeonroute doesn't give a shit about that would be really important for the purposes that everyone seems to think dungeonroute is good for?

the rest of your fucking party hitting cds

[golden loom]

he also streamed for 17 hours going through the entire league wiki on his return stream

[crisp pine]

Everything is crumbling atm
Cause noone cares

[coral ibex]

this is peak male performance btw

[analog field]

E-sports is not crumbling

[golden loom]

Jhin

[analog field]

it is just not super popular

[royal lantern]

e-sport focus literally killed many games lol, its a reason why its slowly getting less and less support everywhere

[analog field]

especially in europe

[fallow canopy]

that mf is locked in

[analog field]

but wow is one of the most under-funded and under-watched games

[coral ibex]

locked tf in playing malz adc in pure silence

[radiant raven]

[fallow canopy]

sees enemy press R gets a kill

get outplayed bozo

[radiant raven]

The day they invent competitive idling in WoW, I'm gonna be so famous.

[shell crater]

Is there a particular energy value I don’t wanna go over when I’m about to let my envenom drop?

[crisp pine]

bro lmao I play fighting games

[coral ibex]

no you just dont want to overcap

[analog field]

Who cares about fighting games, wtf

[crisp pine]

there was a pricepool for like a million dollars for the new fatal fury

that shit has 5 viewers on twitch

[royal lantern]

probably half your energy bar, cus you would overcap when youu wait at that point

[crisp pine]

WoW is not one of the under-watched games

[analog field]

yeah it is

you just compare it to non-existing games

[shell crater]

So I don’t have to let it fall off at 80 stacks it’s better to refresh it if it means I’ll overcap?

[crisp pine]

lmfao

[coral ibex]

correct

[crisp pine]

what a fucking argument

[analog field]

No one is watching wow in a e-sport way

[coral ibex]

overcapping energy isn't good

[shell crater]

Gotcha

[analog field]

it is one of the worse games to spectate

[crisp pine]

uh actually if you ignore all of the other games thatre doing worse, wow is doing rly bad

got me there actuallt

[radiant raven]

Isn't the RWF arguably esports?

[crisp pine]

I yield

[analog field]

yeah and rwf is ultra under-watched

[coral ibex]

the fact that other games have fewer viewers doesn't mean wow is watchable

[analog field]

especially with all the splits going on

[coral ibex]

wow is painfully unwatchable

[radiant raven]

It seemed to get a lot of people watching it

[golden loom]

https://x.com/RuddyRegan_/status/2042153909654057043

Regan (@RuddyRegan_)

Second LS stream:

Facemask + intense stare
illaoi mid
F Key every 0.25seconds
*sighs in Korean*

Season 9 is back 😭😭😭

X · Apr 9, 2026, 8:13 AM

[lime edge]

That would only really happen during aoe and maybe on pull/lust

[radiant raven]

That's terrifying what the heck

[analog field]

rwf had like 100k people watching on the last boss

[royal lantern]

duuring cds/bl its also bad cus like

you wanna blast there and have more then enough energy generation

[shell crater]

Gotcha

[analog field]

it is unbelievably low

[golden loom]

its just a facemask for skincare

[radiant raven]

I support good skincare

[lime edge]

In st with no cds u dont have infinite energy

[balmy condor]

idk, I hate the whole dungeonroute thing, the whole thing is nonsense.

People will fall into one of these 5 buckets about it:

1. Defend it with grandiose delusions about what it could be rather than what it is
2. Try to say it's good for a niche thing that it's really not good for
3. Fundamentally misunderstand how dungeonroute/dungeonslice work
4. Not realize the insane amount of support that would need to go into dungeonroute to make it viable for what they want it to be
5. Project their own weird superiority complex because they just learned about a "secret sim fight style", so they have a competitive edge and are better than those normies simming dungeonslice

[shell crater]

I presume if it gets between getting another implac stack and refreshing my bleeds though I wanna keep my bleeds up

[balmy condor]

and that's it

rant over

[golden loom]

hes also in korea where the skincare is taken to the extreme

[fallow canopy]

imagine doing more work for less accurate results

[radiant raven]

e-sport skincare

[sudden grotto]

[lime edge]

Well u have like 7 seconds to refresh either so they shouldn't really conflict

[golden loom]

yeah just a chill full packed stadium

[high dust]

who the fuck cares about e-sport in a game we wanna PLAY and not watch

[analog field]

I totally agree, what I was trying to say is that if the game was really popular on a tryhard level these things would be ultra-developed

[royal lantern]

the wow problem is mostly just

if you dont know how wow works in the first place, you have no idea whats happening at all and just see a shitton of projectiles flying around with a bunch of colored circles on the ground

[balmy condor]

there literally is not enough compute power available

[fallow canopy]

hey man I love valo esports but I'm not exactly keen on playing it that much

[analog field]

I mean look at chess

It is even more not computable

but people try

cause it has big cash

[high dust]

but that's the diference. in this case, i wanna play wow, not watch it.

[coral ibex]

i think thats a bad argument based on assumptions you probably can't prove, such as "why must an esport have ultra-developed modeling programs" ?

[balmy condor]

chess does not have big cash though

[royal lantern]

so you say

get techbros into WoW Simulations and suddenly your Goverment will build 20 Datacenters in your Backyard for Sim Power??

[analog field]

Chess at the top level has one of the biggest cash

[radiant raven]

Nah 'cos it'll all be grifting and scams and nothing will get done

[balmy condor]

chess engines are passion projects more than anything

[fallow canopy]

new presidential campaign idea dropped

[coral ibex]

counter strike doesn't have anything like prediction models

[golden loom]

league neither

[coral ibex]

and its one of the most watched and popular esports in the world

[golden loom]

like the biggest esport on the planet has pro players for 16 years saying "no I don't care about the math this feels better" and you say that esports is more optimized than wow

[analog field]

What prediction model ? you dont have all this depth in CS. You have more like a strategy on how to move and obviously there is such analysis done by the teams

[crisp pine]

If only wow was more popular

[balmy condor]

the candidates is one of the biggest tournaments, only happens every 2 years, and has a 700k prize pool split 8 ways.

IEM Cologne is 1.25 mil

[crisp pine]

we'd have our own mechanical turk

[coral ibex]

[high dust]

whats the prediction model for jigglypuff spamming dream on u

[analog field]

What are you kidding me ? noone plays candidate for the money

[balmy condor]

I never said they do

[analog field]

There are 20 tournaments per year with more cash than candidates

all these free style tournaments at the moment have like 1.5m

also all these grand prix tournaments have the same with candidates

so a player playing candidates have played 10 more tournaments

[crisp pine]

well if it's about money then fighting games do matter apparently cause they got that cool saudi cash now

I'm gonna crash out

[analog field]

Also world champ match in chess is like 2.5m

[radiant raven]

I wish I was good at chess

[analog field]

Chess has not good money for many ppl but the 20 top players are making a fortune

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-chess-win-gif-17584376170894933930

[analog field]

in wow for example even those 20 players are making 0's

they are making out of streaming than playing

[balmy condor]

what does that have to do with sims though

[radiant raven]

That cat is better at chess than I am

[lime edge]

Guys, does shadowmeld let u restealth midcombat in m+

[balmy condor]

sometimes

[royal lantern]

sometimes

[lime edge]

Huh

[royal lantern]

damm whisp was faster

[lime edge]

[high dust]

someti- oh shit they faster too.

[golden loom]

u gotta spam stealth after shadowmelding and sometimes it works

[balmy condor]

it's a very moody button

[royal lantern]

its janky as hell and also doesnt really mater

[lime edge]

Hey man

[high dust]

its like the night elfs:
sometimes they work, sometimes they're sleeping and doing drugs.

[royal lantern]

you can press meld and the game just decides "nah, you are still in combat"

[lime edge]

If it worked all the time it would def matter

Smh

[royal lantern]

just how it is

[balmy condor]

if you look at your screen weird you'll still be in combat

[fallow canopy]

the only reason to go nelf is for the jump man

[royal lantern]

not really

[lime edge]

Restealth pretty op idk

[royal lantern]

no....?

[fallow canopy]

is it tho?

[balmy condor]

fucking god damnit

[golden loom]

and away we go

[lime edge]

Better than 2% stats

[fallow canopy]

fuck

we got baited

[royal lantern]

no??

[balmy condor]

I mean

[radiant raven]

Having two hearthstone charges is better than meld

[balmy condor]

it's pretty fucking close to 2% stats

[royal lantern]

yeha but what if it isnt bait???

[golden loom]

is double vanish good

[high dust]

what's considered "high keys" for u guys. 12+?

[lime edge]

Its not double vanish tho

[wary light]

You guys are missing the only thing that matters

[fallow canopy]

I just assume everything is bait these days

[royal lantern]

whatever im running is high keys

[wary light]

Pandas ugly elves good

[radiant raven]

+16 atm, but it goes up as time goes on. Last season it was +14's!

[royal lantern]

so rn its 13 i gues

[balmy condor]

I think if you're not perma chainpulling and you're able to get like, even just 1/3rd of your restealths naturally

[royal lantern]

L take

[high dust]

damn.

[balmy condor]

2% stats is going to be better

[fallow canopy]

this person gets it

[wary light]

Panda lover

[fallow canopy]

also pandas are cute

[golden loom]

void elf just mogs night elf tho sadly

[wary light]

Ok true

[fallow canopy]

orc would be a better example imo no hate

[lime edge]

Yea but it would work mid fight too, not just for chain pulls

[balmy condor]

mid fight on non-bosses

sure

[high dust]

night elf rogue feels weird because wtf u mean a guy 2,5 metters tall with shoulders like a fucking truck can get behind me without seeing him?

[balmy condor]

how would that help

[radiant raven]

he shadowstepped

[royal lantern]

i mean, wow stealth is more magic based anyway

[high dust]

tauren too then

[radiant raven]

Shadowstepped

[royal lantern]

every class in wow is magic based

[lime edge]

Why no boss

[radiant raven]

Or Shadowhoofed

[balmy condor]

because bosses keep you in combat?

it's boss combat?

[royal lantern]

becasue it literally doesnt work in boss fights for getting out of combat

[storm forum]

I like NElf cause I get 2/3 of my meld restealths cause I'm built different

[golden loom]

vanish is like a magical flashbang/smoke grenade wombo combo

[balmy condor]

you're in an encounter

[lime edge]

So it sucks

[ruby bolt]

nelf because hot

panda because hotter

[high dust]

blood elv so I can get those sweet 15 energy from racial

[balmy condor]

THATS WHAT CONVINCED YOU THAT IT SUCKS?

[fallow canopy]

that's what we've been sayiing

[high dust]

its a big diff.

[balmy condor]

not being able to meld, in boss fights?

that's the thing

that convinced you

[royal lantern]

meld is a deffensive