assassination

[waxen oyster]

basically never trust me near a ledge

in a raid

between swapblasters

and rescuee

[sonic zinc]

so ur saying crimson vial should be a damaging ability bc its red

what if crimson vial was like a stim pack

[haughty flicker]

well red=hp

so thats also healing

[waxen oyster]

but im also the guy who used to play hpal way back in the day

just to bop melee on their cooldowns

[haughty flicker]

in fact idk why assa isnt a healer

[waxen oyster]

or i would divine inervention the warrior during execute

[kindred cipher]

much worse than mut into envenom 💀

[sonic zinc]

real rogues want hemo back

[blazing totem]

autoattack your allies to heal them

blizz pls

[sonic zinc]

sub rogue becomes ranged spec
ass becomes healer spec
outlaw becomes tank spec

👍

[waxen oyster]

idk i played rogue in old days

[blazing totem]

🤝

[waxen oyster]

and said this class is too slow

so never mained

if i wanted to be that slow i'd go down to the nursing home and play checkers with someones grandma

[kindred cipher]

imagine the bugs for that tho...

[waxen oyster]

wait killing your allies?

sign me up

[mint urchin]

This is how you healed in SWTOR, you literally shot healing bullets

[sonic zinc]

unholy should become a healer spec as well

[haughty flicker]

my favorite part of any raid tier is the fight with mind control so i can murder people

[waxen oyster]

If you werent playing mage exclusively to drop ancient dalaran portals on lock closets

[blazing totem]

good old swtor

[waxen oyster]

and watch 5 people die per world boss group

[waxen oyster]

i watched our mw rop 5 people off on lords of dread

[haughty flicker]

im very much looking forward to playing priest next tier

solely to troll people with leap of faith

i crave it

[mint urchin]

I wish they got rid of PL

It just impossible to balance

[haughty flicker]

bring back mind sear

[mint urchin]

mind sear was fine

[waxen oyster]

PI someone already getting it

to invalidate their parse

[haughty flicker]

oh ive done that a few times during prepatch

not on purpose but

its very funny when it happens

[blazing totem]

I like the way you think guys

[waxen oyster]

once on lords of dread i put the boomy in a 7s kidney

right as the mc was ending

[sonic zinc]

u gotta save ur cds for the mc event so u can nuke someone

[waxen oyster]

also mildly troll thing happened this tier

i got mced on an nk pull and my mc blinded the group as the beam came through

[sonic zinc]

i love that u can hearth while mcd

happened to someone in my raid

[lethal arrow]

I kidneyed a guildie for 7 cp on Rick reverb

Good times

[haughty flicker]

mfw the ret paladin dies to beam then drops consecrate and slows everyone else so they get hit by the next one

[waxen oyster]

im gonna be real it was so annoying watching pallys get mced on rik

because suddenly im slowed

[sonic zinc]

ya

[waxen oyster]

its like when im doing some random world content on my rogue in warmode

running by in stealth then hit by random aoe

[sonic zinc]

i was doing prepatch event bosses for chieve in non war mode
and somehow got tagged and aoe'd a dk

who then proceeded to grip me several times for no reason

i nuked him

then every boss id see him and hed back away

pepw

[waxen oyster]

Yeah longest i played prepatch

getting the rares achieve

[balmy condor]

had to afk for a bit, but calling a designed gameplay redundent is crazy

you seriously think ct as a talent replacing fok is better?

[kindred cipher]

hey, i think i realized my main issue was ct turning into a gen, and it wasnt a spender anymore. just threw me off. and fok filling the same role seemed pointless. the main issue isnt ct spreading bleeds i guess, its just what my mind saw as the issue without thinking about it

[balmy condor]

yeh, I mean right now it can seem like they fill the same role

because for lord knows what reason, CT hits like a truck

like picking between CT and fok in situations is a clear design philosophy

and for some reason, they just missed that in tuning

[kindred cipher]

but can you agree the whole point of this expansion is trim? i was an enhance main before, so i get having too many buttons. its okay to let them go

[balmy condor]

we did get trimmed

[haughty flicker]

shiv

[kindred cipher]

so did bm hunter...

[balmy condor]

significantly so

[sonic zinc]

some specs got more trimmed than others

[balmy condor]

the biggest complaint with sub right now is that it got trimmed too much

[sonic zinc]

prunning doesnt necessitate removing all potential nuance

[balmy condor]

I'm not sure that "I have two generators, make it one"

is really the great prune that we're looking for

[waxen oyster]

enhance be like

[kindred cipher]

is removing fok going to make sin that much easier? a button most of you prob agree you barely press?

[waxen oyster]

"have an extra bind for all these utility talents you might take on occasion"

[balmy condor]

I press fok more than CT

[kindred cipher]

i mean i did a 16 tonight and i barely presses fok. tho i didnt run the noob sin build that has energy

[balmy condor]

idk what that means

[kindred cipher]

the one that doenst go down the middle

[balmy condor]

oh

that dumbfuck dalaran gaming build or whatever the hell

that he claimed had more energy

when it actually has less

yeah

but like

people be pressing fok

idk

[kindred cipher]

i mean it does. im not saying its optimal, but i was able to spam ct a lot. i used fok when ther were like 3-4 targets

[balmy condor]

pressing fok a lot

it doesn't have more energy

where is it getting more energy from

[kindred cipher]

bleeds? idk lol. isnt that your job to figure out?

[balmy condor]

I have figured it out

[jade abyss]

O shit x)

[balmy condor]

I'm telling you it has less energy

[waxen oyster]

im gonna be real

[balmy condor]

this is me informing you

[waxen oyster]

if i see a mf play nightborne rogue

ima have trust issues

[kindred cipher]

but i played it and i was able to spam ct. again, to clarify, in prepatch

[balmy condor]

that's great

but again

I do not understand

where it is magically coming up with energy

[kindred cipher]

idk. have you tried it?

[balmy condor]

yes

it's basically the same speed

and sims have it about half an APM slower

[jaunty notch]

don't you just press ct then build from fok?

[balmy condor]

I have looked at this

[jaunty notch]

like you do 3-4-5 ct depending on pull

but unless you do +2 key, target should live enough to spam fok?

[kindred cipher]

the issue i ran into w larger pulls is by the time you are ready to use fok, you have to press ct anyway. unless u wanna let garotte drop off

yeah, you get 1 or 2 fok in, but like, why even bother having it as a button?

[jaunty notch]

i don't remember garrote duration but are you really spamming ct for 10s+ ?

[kindred cipher]

this was a 16

flood

[jaunty notch]

no I meant, 10 secondes or +

[balmy condor]

everyone says it's more energy and then cannot point me to where there is more energy

I'm gonna lose it

[kindred cipher]

from more bleeds

[balmy condor]

it's not more bleeds

[jaunty notch]

?

[balmy condor]

you have the same amount of bleeds

[jaunty notch]

how is it more bleed

fok cost less to cast (way less to cast) I can't see a world where it's better to ct instead of fok

[kindred cipher]

so im not the only one that has said there is more energy then?

[jaunty notch]

didn't had any issue to keep bleed on everyone and spam fok

[jade abyss]

You have more bleeds when the pulls are bigger

[balmy condor]

articulate to me how these points are hindering your bleed spreading

envenom damage, envenom talent, and double poison

[kindred cipher]

therefore you dont have time to cast fok cuz you need to use ct more!

[jaunty notch]

do you pull 3 gazillions mobs every pull or what

[balmy condor]

yes, there's been about 3 or 4 people now that have parroted dalaran's clickbait video

[kindred cipher]

math out 20 mobs vs 6 mobs

the gcds alone

[balmy condor]

yes, 20 mobs takes a while to spread to

but again, how is this changing from one build to the other

[kindred cipher]

then add misplays, and player hesitation

[jaunty notch]

are you even pulling 20 mobs every single pull

pull*

[balmy condor]

20 mobs is basically just first pull algethar

but that's irrelevant here

focus

[kindred cipher]

no, but 10-20 is pretty normal?

sure, fok will pull ahead. my point is, why? wtf is the point?

[balmy condor]

the claim here is dropping the center column and taking sudden demise, is more energy

where.

[sonic zinc]

the more energy comes from the kingsbane node that gives u more haste after kingsbane 🙂

[cunning needle]

yes but whispyr what if there's 30 mobs?

[kindred cipher]

no one claims sudden demise is more energy. everyone who says to take it usually says that its a pad talent

[balmy condor]

yes, and the energy this gives is less than the energy you get from dashing scoundrel with doubled poisons

[sonic zinc]

yep

lul

[balmy condor]

okay but you claimed the build had more energy

so what build is it then

[kindred cipher]

it does. i didnt say it was cuz of sudden demise...

[balmy condor]

well I'm trying to figure out

[jaunty notch]

give the build man

[balmy condor]

where you're getting that energy from

[cunning needle]

no don't share the build. we need to sandbag

[kindred cipher]

idk! if feels better to play tho

[cunning needle]

keep it secret. keep it safe

[balmy condor]

IDK EITHER

WHAT ARE WE DOING

[sonic zinc]

why claim something when u dont know

[cunning needle]

why not? it's your job to know these things

what are we even paying you for

[delicate turret]

i can feel whispyr close to having a heartattack rn

[earnest remnant]

nah, he drinks white monsters to avoid that

[sonic zinc]

didnt they run out of those

[earnest remnant]

he is a machine of unbridled apl work

[kindred cipher]

because i experienced. u guys want hard numbers. oih wait, i think i logged it

[sonic zinc]

olympics drank em all

[delicate turret]

true 4 a day minium

[balmy condor]

brother I look at these numbers, I've been neck deep in theorycrafting and guides for legit weeks

[jaunty notch]

gatekeeping the secret bleed so hanasong will hit rank1 parse

[scarlet cliff]

gotta give it to whispyr, patience of a saint

[jaunty notch]

great technique

[balmy condor]

and then bro shows up and goes "dunno feels better, no clue why, no clue what, no clue where, but it does"

"you figure it out"

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

WHAT THE FUCK

[cunning needle]

> all

[jaunty notch]

[delicate turret]

trust bro its better.

source: me

[kindred cipher]

lol its not a secret. apparently the guy the made a video about it isnt aloowed on here...

[waxen oyster]

should paywall asking questions like that

[balmy condor]

the guy who made a video about it is allowed in here

he just doesn't talk in here because he gets clowned on

cause half the shit he says

[jaunty notch]

just drop the build already man

[balmy condor]

is nonsense

[jaunty notch]

who is that guy

did I miss drama

[balmy condor]

dalaran

[waxen oyster]

40k guy?

oh

[cunning needle]

didnt dalaran get destroyed at the start of the expansion?

[jaunty notch]

pretty it does

[balmy condor]

oh he renamed

[waxen oyster]

wow youtubers are typically not that reliable

[balmy condor]

it used to be something something build that fixes energy

now it's a DEAD talent

[waxen oyster]

especially if they make actual videos not just vod rips

[kindred cipher]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcU7_mutg-I

[cunning needle]

[balmy condor]

what dead talent is he talking about

is it demise

[jaunty notch]

I will wait for shindig video and will copy paste his build

[waxen oyster]

alexa teach this man how to make a clickbait thumbnail

yt revenue 101

[cunning needle]

the quazii special

[haughty flicker]

More like deadmise

[jaunty notch]

my new talent build will be behind a paywall, stay tuned

[cunning needle]

https://tenor.com/view/ba-dum-tsss-drum-band-gif-7320811

[kindred cipher]

damn, you guys are nasty. isnt this supposed to be about theorycrafting? like i understand sims, and that peoples feelings are usually wrong, but damn...

[delicate turret]

clearly we need to ask chatgpt here to settle this debate

[jaunty notch]

@grok is this true ?

[waxen oyster]

People when a spec gets redesigned

suddenly plays different

[wise plover]

thats ragebait

[balmy condor]

it's been theorycrafted, people cannot articulate what the actual thing is here

[cunning needle]

This message has been deleted as it violates this terms of service of this discord.

[balmy condor]

what is the dead talent

is it regicide?

is it demise?

[kindred cipher]

but its been mentioned. im not the first, right? niether is that content creator? so there is something to it.

[balmy condor]

cause regicide is less energy than dashing with DTB

and regicide isn't a dead talent

we play it in raid

[cunning needle]

20 minutes and the talent still hasn't been dropped yet

[balmy condor]

so like, it can't be that

[cunning needle]

bro please drop it, i need to cook dinner

[balmy condor]

what is the secret dead talent that I am not seeing

[delicate turret]

https://klipy.com/gifs/marmota-cooking

[jaunty notch]

dinner ?

where the fuck do you live

[cunning needle]

yeah the meal you typically eat at the end of the day

at around 5:30-7:30

[kindred cipher]

did you watch the video? apparently its that second points having individual procs. maybe theres a energy interattion there?

[jaunty notch]

its 9am it my country

[delicate turret]

gota be aus

[jaunty notch]

😂

[waxen oyster]

He lives in british convict country

[balmy condor]

I'm about halfway through his explanation of secondary poisoning, which is wrong and doesn't really make much sense

but we take secondary poisoning

[waxen oyster]

I guess that beats eating unseasoned beans though

[cunning needle]

i'm cooking oyakodon

[waxen oyster]

based

[jaunty notch]

@cunning needle do you eat shark?

[cunning needle]

used to but it's too expensive now for the real stuff

[kindred cipher]

okay, but lets say he was right, for fun. would that explain it? or would it still be wrong?

[cunning needle]

if he's right, he wouldn't be wrong

[jaunty notch]

Roleplaying Iskaar I see i see

[balmy condor]

if he was right and secondary poisoning was double triggering, you would get more poison procs, which then have a chance to crit more, giving you more energy from dashing

which would be more energy

[kindred cipher]

gallileo was wrong until he wasnt too..

[jaunty notch]

so he is right then

[balmy condor]

except for the fact that the normal build also takes secondary poisoning

[balmy condor]

and has twice the poisons because it takes DTB

[jaunty notch]

[balmy condor]

so if he's right about how secondary poisoning works

[sonic zinc]

he even points out it would probably be better with dtb

[balmy condor]

he would actually be even more wrong

because his build would be even slower

[cunning needle]

wooooo double wrong

[kindred cipher]

normal build takes the talent under it tho? so it could be a bug with base poison?

[balmy condor]

[kindred cipher]

deadly poison

[scarlet cliff]

uh oh

[jaunty notch]

mfw I don't event know what talent im playing

[waxen oyster]

same

[balmy condor]

yeah I mean, except for him "showing the bug" is with atrophic

[jaunty notch]

and I arguebait in this channel

[waxen oyster]

i copy whatever whispyr posts on wowhead

[balmy condor]

any other tinfoil?

[jaunty notch]

yup same

[cunning needle]

same. i'm just here to shitpost

only content that prepatch actually has.

[jaunty notch]

I'll play whatever Whisp say, and if I deal no damage I complain about rogue being bad

[kindred cipher]

its not a tinfoil! im asking questions just as you are. youre smarter at figuring them out. so figure it out!

[waxen oyster]

im just getting my month tendies

[cunning needle]

yeah whispyr, figure it out or else i'm demanding a refund

[balmy condor]

also saying Galileo was wrong until he wasn't is such a shit analogy because Galileo was a scientist that used math, geometry, and the scientific process to prove or disprove his hypothesis

[waxen oyster]

and trying to grab the title from whirling surge dismounting 50 players

[balmy condor]

which is what I have done

[delicate turret]

right thats it, its been too long since a whispyr youtube video its time

[cunning needle]

whispyr = galileo confirmed

[balmy condor]

while you sit here and just spout random conspiracy theories about how things hypothetically might maybe work if they didn't work the way they did

[jaunty notch]

goat i like you

[waxen oyster]

whispyr lets talk actual fun conspiracy theories /j

[jaunty notch]

it suck that im at work

[cunning needle]

dw you can take the shitposting night shift once you're done

[balmy condor]

every point of data that has been looked at in regards to this super build, simply does not add up

[kindred cipher]

dude relax. im not questioning you. no one really does. the reason people trust you is because you can back your shit up. but getting mad at people asking questions makes you seem insecure

[balmy condor]

I'm mad because your questions are shit, not because you're asking questions

[kindred cipher]

we know yourte smart

[jaunty notch]

nice

[balmy condor]

we're three hypotheticals deep

to try and justify a talent

that both builds take

where are we going with this

[kindred cipher]

maybe the talents hes not taking?

[delicate turret]

kiss surely?

[balmy condor]

okay, the talents he's not taking

with the idea behind that being what

that there's some interaction that breaks?

[cunning needle]

that he's not taking them. duh

[waxen oyster]

three deep into me

[cunning needle]

figure it out

[waxen oyster]

wait wrong context

[cunning needle]

[kindred cipher]

can u guys stop trolling

[cunning needle]

no

[jaunty notch]

why would we play sin anyway am i right blue fellas?

[cunning needle]

💯

stinky spec

[earnest remnant]

if you are typing just to annoy please cut it out

[cunning needle]

guess its dinner time

glhf at work @jaunty notch

[jaunty notch]

guess its work time

was about to take my shit break

[jaunty notch]

thanks man, bon appetite

[waxen oyster]

Either way most youtubers dont provide evidence their build is good

[haughty flicker]

[waxen oyster]

just "it feels nice"

on my tiny sample size

that i definitely didnt cherrypick

[sonic zinc]

he also apparently had isntant poison during this too, i gues to test the proc but idk why that would change anything

[jaunty notch]

what the "feel nice" is about the party buff they have and not the build itself, but they are too stupid to see it ? just saying

[delicate turret]

like kissing the homies but its not meta

[sonic zinc]

the only way dalaran's build would make sense for "solving energy" is if theres just some bugged interaction against DTB i guess

[winged basin]

going through all of the class changes to attempt to find something to play, and logging on to my sin rogue to see that CT isn't a finisher now is wack. new icon is sick tho.

[balmy condor]

yeah I mean he slows down the video because "it's double hitting"

which is one auto

applying instant and atrophic

which then both hit the 50/50

and then you get two secondaries

like this can just happen, when you have poisons

[sonic zinc]

yea

theres like nothing about this build at all that would imply extra energy (aside from regicide technically, but we know thats not an increase against other things the normal build takes)

shrug

[kindred cipher]

he specifically had deadly poison, and he even talks about not taking amp poison in the vid...

[sonic zinc]

he also specifically said the build makes deadly poison do more damage, which doesnt mean anything. dp would have to be significantly more damage on its own to justify not taking dtb and amp.
and has nothing to do with energy

[runic hinge]

I’m confused if the build is more damage or more energy at this point

[haughty flicker]

this is dagger fury all over again

[old thistle]

https://tenor.com/view/vae-gif-15357506855217945854

[runic hinge]

What a wild ride that was

[pliant remnant]

This is why you guys will never dethrone Dalaran's rank 1s

You just don't understand...

[sonic zinc]

there wiuld have to be a bugged interaction with energy gen and dtb/amp to make this dal build make sense

[pliant remnant]

Anyway I'm off to take Doomblade instead of Regicide

[runic hinge]

Smart. They just buffed doomblade

[pliant remnant]

[kindred cipher]

and this has never happened before. blizz has never had an rogue bug? let alone an undocumented one

[sonic zinc]

sure. im just saying thats the only thing u can point to for this, but dalaran doesnt provide any data to back his claims up

unless i missed all his data in his vid description

[kindred cipher]

not everyone is a data expert. not everyone knows how to do that. QA testers arent data coders...

[sonic zinc]

qa testers provide data to backup their claims

[runic hinge]

Does he have any logs

Tbh that’s probably the best way

[sonic zinc]

im not even saying dal is wrong. im just saying where is the data

[runic hinge]

Slowing down a vid with yellow combat text doesn’t tell me anything

[kindred cipher]

idk, go ask him lol. i ran a key tonight w the build and wi was able to spam ct like 90% of the time. it was a failed key, so i dont have logs. ill try tomorrow, but its like 2 days before early access, so unless u all have alts...

[runic hinge]

Yeah idk. I don’t find energy to be that bad regardless. I think people complaining the most are coming back from a long hiatus or just don’t play assa much in general

It’s not even the slowest it’s been

[sonic zinc]

did u do a key with the wowhead build as well or did u just load up dals, blasted a key, then stopped

[runic hinge]

But if we don’t actually have logs of some magic bug I will continue to play build simming the highest

[kindred cipher]

i tried both on dummies. only did dals in keys, but I've been playing sub the past month. i had a similar energy exp on dummies too, tho not as pronounced since less targets. more spamming and less downtime. if i actually try to manage my energy w his build, i never even proc tea

like on 5 targets is has to be serious mismanagement to worry about energy

and i actually use fok on dummies. in the 16 i didnt, once i realized i didnt need to, i stopped using fok, unless it was a low target count

[jaunty notch]

to summarize : Dals > Whispyr and CT > FoK

you're welcome guys

[runic hinge]

Ty

[kindred cipher]

or you can just discuss pros and cons? maybe dal's is lower skill cap, maybe its better numbers wise cuz of a bug. its okay to have both options...

[jaunty notch]

As a wise man I will say that we maybe just need to wait until midnight is fully released

who care about min maxing any damage early on ?

[sonic zinc]

nah, just wait til last titan

[jaunty notch]

nm/hc raid and dungeon will get blasted anyway

[sonic zinc]

lets just move past midnight

[jaunty notch]

and till the mythic week thing will be sorted out

[runic hinge]

I mean until there’s logs it’s just conjecture and feelcraft this other build is even better in some way

[kindred cipher]

not for everyone. not for people that might want to play a rogue alt. im just saying, this is literally one of the most aggresive discords ive entered. not the rogue disc, sin specificaly lol

[runic hinge]

It doesn’t take extra energy talents so idk how it could be more energy and if it’s more damage then it doesn’t currently sim that way

[plush umbra]

But it's really hard to discuss pros and cons when 1 build relies on maybe potentially a bug that isn't explained anywhere

[sonic zinc]

its supposedly just more cleave damage, bigger deadly poison damage, somehow more energy, less single target

[plush umbra]

I get that it might feel that way, but put yourself in Whispyr's shoes, someone links a video that vaguely talks about something that isn't clearly explained, and says it's more energy and there's no proof anywhere besides someone saying it feels okay.

[sonic zinc]

idk if its more cleave, or it just does more cleave instead of single

[kindred cipher]

because specs never take advantage of bugs? pointing out weird anomalies is a good thing. even if you cant figure it out, you can tell the dedicated rogue dev 😂

[plush umbra]

And then when asking for some proof, the answer was "well you're supposed to figure it out"

[kindred cipher]

last part was a joke

[jaunty notch]

most people are just trolling man it's not that deep

[plush umbra]

I'm not saying specs never have bugs

but if someone finds a bug, just saying "I found a bug" isn't enough

and you can't expect the theorycrafters to take an hour testing something every single time someone says there might be a bug

[sonic zinc]

like id expect some research and reasoning if u put out a whole video about a build and why it could be good

[plush umbra]

because often times the feeling of something being bugged might stem from a lack of understanding

[sonic zinc]

but dals video doesnt provide much

[kindred cipher]

not everyone knows they find a bug when they find a bug tho. its just a weird interaction they found. its a feature until blizzard decides its a bug

[plush umbra]

no, but if you claim it's a bug or something nobody knows about, you should provide some proof

[sonic zinc]

dal doesnt even make those claims

he points out how he believes secondary poisoning works, and then makes the claim that it all cascades into more energy

[kindred cipher]

apart from the obvious clickbait to get views, does he claim to? he says he found a potential alt build, that he saw top players on beta trying out. does he disparage the rogue sin disc at all like you guys are doing to him?

[jaunty notch]

tbh @kindred cipher as someone who read between the lines what you discussed with Whispyr, it's just on one hand you have a build who has log and we can "analyse" whats going on, in the other hand we have a "better" build, no log linked to it, maybe a bugged talent, and people just say "it feel better" which is NOT an argument and you would get laugh at on any other class server with the exact same scenario

[kindred cipher]

i am happy to run a key with any of your alts. yeah, i have no doubt youd do more damage than me, but i know i didnt have energy issues

[plush umbra]

but that expectation wasn't mentioned at all here

[sonic zinc]

i mean dal straight up claims better energy gen in the video with this build.

but like im not disparaging him, im being skeptical about the claims when no data is provided

[plush umbra]

I think if you had lead with that, instead of just linking the video, where people took the title at face value, there might've been more discussion

[jaunty notch]

Now I might sound harsh, but have you consider it a skill issue ? I didn't had much of energy issue since change, nothing that are really killing my energy more than before honestly

the whole point of TC is to optimize dps

not feeling well playing the spec who care

at the end of the day if you don't care loose some minor %dps for a better energy management go for it, but it seem like a bug, so you have more to win to keep the base build we have know than rely on your "feel better" build that will most likely end up being patched

[kindred cipher]

yeah 100% it likely is. ive been mostly playing sub, and im coming from enhance too. rogue was an alt for me for a long time, but never a main. my point is, having a build that isnt an awful energy game for people wanting to pick up rogue isnt a bad thing...

i also just said i liked how sin spread bleeds last season, and you all lost your shit, so...

[jaunty notch]

you liked it because you probably didn't played it enough, or you didn't played it with awfull perma chain pull tank

but when you have to put more effort to find small windows to restealth than actually playing the game you ended up hating that

[sonic zinc]

u can like a thing, but u also made the claim about jumping through more hoops for ct spreading

[kindred cipher]

i made a macro to ask my tank not to chain pull. it worked like 90% of the time. they sometimes forgot halfway, and i just pressed it again and they apologized. most tanks just didnt understand how important stealth was...

[reef ginkgo]

I had a premade tank that flat out "forgot" everytime and it made me hate the restealth mechanic

[kindred cipher]

and yea, in super high keys you likely didnt have the time to stop. i get it. thats a blizz design issues

[supple ermine]

Another outlaw win

😝

[sonic zinc]

ive told tanks that asked to stfu and keep pulling idc gogogo

[jaunty notch]

blizz design was awful, change are nice, class tuning are turbo bad, bug are everywhere on every class, this is just how wow is

[worldly sail]

only cared about restealth if i wanted to iron wire, and now that's gone too

[subtle tundra]

wasnt outlaw notorious recently that they loved restealths

[kindred cipher]

did you tell them it would make you do more damage? idk man, it worked for me. granted it was an alt so like 14s max, but still

[supple ermine]

Not anymore

😝

[subtle tundra]

ofc not anymore

assa doesnt care about stealth either now

[worldly sail]

he HATES improved garrote

[kindred cipher]

i think i put a "please" there somewhere. it helps if youre nice to people

[sonic zinc]

its not even about more damage, it was mostly so that u can have a cleaner opener. but like that didnt matter that much if u knew how to play around not restealthing or didnt care about applying ruptures

[subtle tundra]

i wipe my ass with improved gar

[sonic zinc]

like restealths did help, but they werent gonna dumpster u completely if u didnt get any

and id rather get through the key than have someone play around a minor convenience

[blazing totem]

improved gar feels so out of place if their intent is on decoupling vanish from offensive rotation

[kindred cipher]

it was a lot more damage. maybe you didnt stress that part enough? idk man, in general people dont understand things unless you explain it to them

[jaunty notch]

it is gone anyway so w/e

[worldly sail]

!restealth

[sonic zinc]

i didnt stress it to anyone. i told tanks that i didnt want them to play around it

[supple ermine]

Fuck

[sonic zinc]

it wasnt that important to the overall and i knew how to play atound it

[kindred cipher]

its not tho. what othe class loses damage on stealth. even if its 10% instead of 20-30%, thats a lot...

[jaunty notch]

how I dealt with tank not allowing me to restealth in s3 : didn't played m+

ez

[lethal arrow]

how i dealt with tank not letting me restealth, play sub rogue

[jaunty notch]

? 😂

you don't have to restealth anymore brotha

[sonic zinc]

!restealth

aw doesnt exist

[kindred cipher]

so you did the opposite of what i did, and then act suprised they didnt care about your stealth? wut??

[lethal arrow]

sub was so fun in keys, u just crank dps the entire time and do jack shit nothing when dance was on cd!

[sonic zinc]

???? i never was surprised. i explicitly told them i dont want them to play around me

[jaunty notch]

hanasong must be the greatest ragebaiter of the century

[subtle tundra]

clearly you havent met me in my prime

[kindred cipher]

look at your talents, and tell me your dont lose any damage

[lethal arrow]

who was even asking for restealths in keys last season

[jaunty notch]

?????

[lethal arrow]

atp i was just manually spread ruptures

[sonic zinc]

idk where u got the idea that i wanted tanks to give me restealths when i said i told tanks i didnt want them to do that

[jaunty notch]

do you even know what was the point of restealthing at all ?

[subtle tundra]

the point was to be an annoying piece of shit

it workd

[worldly sail]

!chainpull

[jaunty notch]

[sonic zinc]

i can forward the old bot message lul

[lethal arrow]

this is the way

[sonic zinc]

like the good old times

[haughty flicker]

[lethal arrow]

call ur tank a slur

and move on

[subtle tundra]

the slur is pre-key

[lethal arrow]

yeah

u have to load it up before youre even in the dungeon

otherwise it does nothing

[jaunty notch]

Spread bleed before : Make a macro to beg tank not to chain pull, keep a stack of vanish for big pull to reapply bleed, otherwise apply manually bleed to everyone and loose a shit ton of gcd and dps

Spread bleed now :

Hanasong : "I liked how it was before"

wth

[lethal arrow]

Crimson tempest change kinda goated

I personally felt it was strange we were pressing CT on single target

[subtle tundra]

buddy the only chad bleed spread is manually using rupture on each mob

[lethal arrow]

yeah and u can do that manually

[jaunty notch]

I disagree, chad build is Dalaran one

[lethal arrow]

just mouseover some guys, put up some ruptures

[jaunty notch]

I hated s3 build

also I loved in raid mono how my deathmark could be either 3 gazillions second cd or 10s depending on the I don't know what the fuck blizzard did to our tier set

[lethal arrow]

Really fun to guess if ur CDs would be aligned or not occasionally

[kindred cipher]

damn, u guys had a hard time keeping a charge of vanish be be semi nice to people. i can see how that tracks lol

[subtle tundra]

the slurs were the nice part

[jaunty notch]

yup

[subtle tundra]

i think the worst part was the single target dps i was doing

😃

[jaunty notch]

I genuinely can't understand how someone who played at least one key on sin before change can say that old bleed spread was good

rather than 1 button CT

which is x100000000000000 better in every single situation

[lethal arrow]

I enjoyed calling my tank slurs

This will continue into midnight

[lean plover]

Spreading bleeds before was either easy in stealth or annoying without it, nownits just easy

W

[blazing totem]

if you dont tab and gar rupture every mob individually, you are doing it wrong

[lean plover]

Just had a mouseover rupture

[kindred cipher]

i hated it. but thats not because of how they were spread. it was the stealth

[jaunty notch]

he is just ragebaiting guys

all good

[kindred cipher]

it was usually two garrotes into a rup, then twomore into a rup, then you spread until you ran out of time. and then you spead the poison damage. it was so methodical and beautiful

and sometimes you had to have vanish if your groups damage sucked

or if your tank didnt like you

[lean plover]

It was gar gar rup rup

[jaunty notch]

I'm impressed of how clueless you are

And yet

Still defending your point by being wrong

why the fk would you press 4 garrote and 2 rupture

I'm genuinely interested now

[worldly sail]

[kindred cipher]

its late, and i didnt play this shit spec in like 8 months until tonight. you got my gist tho

[lean plover]

In stealth it was just use 2 garrotes, rupture, get a refund from sbs, rupture

And thats it

[kindred cipher]

i mean i said 2 gars into a rup, but ok

[jaunty notch]

20min ago you said you liked it, then you said you hated it, then you describe an opener that is wrong

Absolute cinema

[lean plover]

If u didkt have stealth you just fok rup 5 times

And you are done

Which was a bit annoying

[kindred cipher]

much better spamming fok or maybe ct now lol

[lean plover]

Now you just use ct a couple of times or spam if you want to pad

[jovial idol]

Couldn't assa just get something like this? CT applies Garrote and Rupture to all nearby targets.

and still a finisher

[cunning needle]

something something class identity

[kindred cipher]

its crazy how youre all mad at me for wanting you to have a better spec lol. some battered wives up in here. no offense meant, pls dont band me, im not making light, etc

[jaunty notch]

there is a diff between wanting a better spec

[lean plover]

I think ct as a builder gives a bit more of choice, as a finisher you use it once and you are done

[earnest remnant]

its just an opinion, everyone is entitled to one

[jaunty notch]

and saying clueless thing for over an hour now

what are your go to change for sin then @kindred cipher

[kindred cipher]

name one other class, let alone spec, that has this many finishes and builders

[kindred cipher]

ct replaces fok. thatd be fine

[jaunty notch]

why would make it better ?

[kindred cipher]

make it cost 10 more energy, whatever

[kindred cipher]

it would make it on par with other specs

[jaunty notch]

?

it can't be real

[lean plover]

Why would we need to be onpar with other specs

We have 1 finisher, 3 builders

[jaunty notch]

lets make every spec the same guy

then we basicly just play melee or range

very good change for the game buddy

lets remove class identity from the game

[kindred cipher]

its not the same spec lol. and this isnt my design goal. this is blizzards stated goal

u guys want to put in double the effort to do 20% less damage than bm hunters? or dev evokers? or literally any other spec now?

[jaunty notch]

yeah

[worldly sail]

if i wanted to play bm hunter i'd play bm hunter

[jaunty notch]

I rather have fun with the class I like

[kindred cipher]

literally having an extra builder or spender puts your there. an sin has both

[jaunty notch]

even if I deal less damage overall

[still nymph]

and the fix is reducing interesting specs down to two button rotations?

[lean plover]

Dmg is tuning, has nothing to do with effort

[jaunty notch]

and compete with my peers rather than play the optimal idiot bm hunter

[lean plover]

But i dont want blizzard to remove even more cognitive load

I dont want every spec yo be bm

[kindred cipher]

no, but its reducing redundancy. fok and ct do the same thing

[jaunty notch]

what if I like having 4 actions bar full of builder and finisher that are usefull in a lot of scenario ?

[jaunty notch]

it does not

[kindred cipher]

theyre aoe buildiers. yes they are,

[jaunty notch]

but we get it Hanasong

[still nymph]

you mean how Howling Blast and Frost Scythe do the same? Aoe dmg? If you reduce it down to that, I guess, but there is more nuance

[haughty flicker]

wait until he learns that outlaw has two st builders and two st spenders

[jaunty notch]

[still nymph]

just use the one button rotation at that point. Dont give a damn what spell you use lol

[haughty flicker]

sub even has three spenders

[jovial idol]

I mean, having only envenom as a finisher is even worse

[jaunty notch]

blind and kidney shot are the same, it stun stuff

[kindred cipher]

thats more comparing hb to garotte, yes, gar isnt aoe, and thats the type of differing that fine

[jaunty notch]

we should only keep 1

also kick and sap do the same thing so we should keep only 1

[jovial idol]

Blind doesn't stun, it's different DR

[jaunty notch]

also we should remove bm double pet

we already have 1 guy

why 2? redundancy

[kindred cipher]

youre being pedantic. you know there is a diff there

[still nymph]

there shouldnt be more than one player for the whole game. we already have one!

[jovial idol]

me?

[jaunty notch]

and why would hunt and sham have access to BL ?

1 expansion was enough

[kindred cipher]

unless you dont understand why cc's have diff dr's

[worldly sail]

[jovial idol]

I am sayingthey are different, in reply to the person saying Kidney and Blind are the same

[kindred cipher]

there is an item you can buy, btw. its not as good. but also more classes have bl

[still nymph]

but we reduce the ability down to its core. they do the same. ignore the nuance

[jaunty notch]

I was using his same logic

I know they are not the same

saying ct and fok is the same than saying blind and kidney shot are the same

the funny part is that I know you are ragebaiting and I'm falling for it

im just a rogue after all

[kindred cipher]

you know what, you kinda got me. i was trying to figure out that i wasnt doing what you said, and i was. not the rage baiting part, i am 100% genuine.

[jaunty notch]

[kindred cipher]

my issue stems from the fact that other classes are going to be like 3 buttons, and you guys are pround to be be 7 buttons and living at the lower 1/3 meters

[earnest remnant]

being on the lower end of the meter has less to do with design and more so just tuning

[kindred cipher]

u think blizz is gonna give a fuck that u press your 2 buttons better?> theyre gonna push the specs that people play more

[lean plover]

Buttons have nothing to do with dps meters

Thats tuning

[earnest remnant]

they dont go hand in hand

[lean plover]

Im happy my spec has still some cognitive load

[lean plover]

If i wanted to play bm, i would play bm

[kindred cipher]

they didnt* now tho? when most specs press 3-4 buttonsd

[jaunty notch]

I rather have fun and do low damage bc my class is not tuned, than play what is strong

I play to have fun, not to do big dps numbers

[kindred cipher]

no one has fun living at the bottom

[jaunty notch]

I'm not playing for Method, I'm not chasing RWF or MDI title

[kindred cipher]

niether am i

[earnest remnant]

sub was probably one of the hardest if not the hardest spec in the game and a fcking piano spec, and was the best progress spec during manaforge

[jaunty notch]

then all of that doesn't matter, just play what you like

[earnest remnant]

just cuz the tuning needle landed well on it

[kindred cipher]

yeah, and so was enhance. and thats what i played until i had to go ele. you guys think im against you for some reason

[lean plover]

I just dont understand why you want to make the spec easier

[lethal arrow]

This is concerning

[lean plover]

Its already easy

[jaunty notch]

we don't think you are against us, you just seek something else than us in WoW

[wooden timber]

i think in raid at least im content as long as some combination of my raid buff and tuning means i dont get sat and beyond that point id prefer my spec be fun

rather than be at the top of the meter

[lethal arrow]

If we make rogue any easier to play I might blow my shit shmoove off

[wooden timber]

like im happy if i play well and then i get beaten by 4 people who played less well

because playing well is the important part

[jaunty notch]

some people played rogue back in the day bc it was actually hard

[lethal arrow]

They took all the buttons and fun away from sub

[kindred cipher]

how is removing fok making it easier. i mean, yes it is, but fok is pointless

add a proc

idc

[earnest remnant]

you just remove decision making

thats all that does

[lethal arrow]

Why would they remove fok

[kindred cipher]

because ct is fok

[jaunty notch]

it is not pointless

[lethal arrow]

But it's not

[lean plover]

Fok costs less energy, thats the choice

Either expensive and spreada bleeds (ct) or cheap and you can envenom more

[earnest remnant]

its just a trade off builder, one spread bleeds for higher energy cost and less dmg per cast other is lower energy cost but higher dmg per cast

[kindred cipher]

but you can just spam ct in keys anyway

and ct is for keys

[earnest remnant]

you could also just never press it

[jaunty notch]

you play Dalaran build to have more energy and feel better playing sin, because you spam CT that cost more energy than FoK, thats probably why you think you can replace it

[earnest remnant]

if my grandma had wheels type shit

[jaunty notch]

just learn to manage energy

[wooden timber]

how fast would she go

[kindred cipher]

now i understyand why no one wants to play rogue...

[jaunty notch]

you want to solve and issue that does not exist

[earnest remnant]

its not a popular mmo archtype

it is what it is

[kindred cipher]

you srs?

[earnest remnant]

it never has been in wow

[kindred cipher]

in wow...

maybe theres a reason....

[jaunty notch]

I think rogue might actually be the MOST mmo archetype ever, not in WoW but rogue-like spec are hella played in a lot of game

[earnest remnant]

its subtle with 0 flashy animations

[haughty flicker]

i mean

[lean plover]

Being doshit in leveling and open world content

[haughty flicker]

out of all the big mmos the only one i can think of that has rogue as a popular archetype is eso nightblade

its not popular in wow, ffxiv, gw2

[kindred cipher]

thats not the reason...

[wooden timber]

in maplestory night lord is really popular

[lean plover]

I have friends that tried rogue and hated the spec while leveling so they stopped bothering

[wooden timber]

but thats kind of a different guy

[haughty flicker]

yeah but nightlord was piss easy and op as fuck for a long time

[wooden timber]

hehe

[earnest remnant]

well that the biggest complaint on forums about rogue.

[lean plover]

What is it then

[earnest remnant]

not that we have fok and ct

[jaunty notch]

I might get insulted here, but the equivalent of rogue in other type of game are assassins, which actually are really popular: Genji in OW, Assassin in LoL, etc...

[lean plover]

Assassins in lol are quite flashy tho

[earnest remnant]

not really the same, its alot more broad

[kindred cipher]

you. assassination rogues. i bet i went to to the sub disc and said i hate shadow dance, they would legit try to figure out why, or just ignore me

[lethal arrow]

Nl NW Db and Shad are like top 4 most popular specs lmao

Yeah cuz shadow dance is like subs core ability

[jaunty notch]

I know it's not exactly the same but I feel like it's the same (I may be wrong)

[lethal arrow]

Lol

[jaunty notch]

[lethal arrow]

Yeah man I sure hate the ball part of basketball. I wish it was just baskets

[wooden timber]

hehehe

[jaunty notch]

[wooden timber]

dfo rogue i dont remember being particularly popular

[lethal arrow]

Like who would even agree with that

[earnest remnant]

reaper which is the most "rogue like" in lost ark is also one of the least played classes

[wooden timber]

i mostly play sub rogue and if u said that i would just think sub rogue is probably not for u and not worry about it further

[lethal arrow]

P sure ninja and viper are very popular in ff14 and those are rogue specs

[lean plover]

Not being gcd capped and being bad at open world content doesnt help either

[wooden timber]

ninja isnt popular

[kindred cipher]

wait, you think it isnt?

[wooden timber]

viper is

ninja has never really been popular

people dont like the mudras

[jaunty notch]

I shouldn't have said MMO, but I think rogue-like character or anything are well loved in series, orher game, ect...

[earnest remnant]

those people are wrong

they are dope

[wooden timber]

but viper is more popular because its really easy and you can hit the boss from very far away for extended periods of time

i agree

[jaunty notch]

but I agree that it is not flashy

[wooden timber]

nin is my favorite melee

[jaunty notch]

And it's surely the reason why it's not played that much

[lethal arrow]

I got a boi who loves ninja

[jaunty notch]

when you compare to shadow priest animation

[wooden timber]

also viper is a job w/o a raid buff

[jaunty notch]

that are so cool and badass

[lethal arrow]

I'm personally a reaper guy

But that class was not very hard

[wooden timber]

and alot of people like just being able to push buttons and not think about how theyre griefing their partys buffs hehe

[wooden timber]

rpr has psychotic minmax but its for minor gains

[earnest remnant]

its why the biggest complaint in the sub channel is to push for actual animations for the spec

[wooden timber]

except maybe in ultimate

[lethal arrow]

It's very funny goof ahh animation cancel nonsense

But still kinda fun

[wooden timber]

the rpr spreadsheets are so funny

i think its the hardest melee to play perfectly but playing it perfectly gets u barely anything (like a socket on ur hat amt of dps or something)

[haughty flicker]

idk if i'd call viper a rogue

[lethal arrow]

Why play anything when u can play picto

Vipers kinda roguey

[haughty flicker]

it kinda is

[wooden timber]

ive been playing bard this tier bc it has timers and dots and procs

[lethal arrow]

Pirate guy with 2 swords or something, idk I didn't play dawntrail

[haughty flicker]

but i think the twinblade stuff takes it too far away

[wooden timber]

bards cool

[haughty flicker]

its not pirate at all

[wooden timber]

resubbed for this tier since nothing going on in wow

and my guild stopped farming except to sell the last 2

[haughty flicker]

although tbf the trailer showed it on a ship so fair enough to think that

[lethal arrow]

damn u hate to see it

Point is rogues a popular class pick for ppl cuz ppl like the edgy class

[haughty flicker]

i still cant think of an mmo with popular rogue archetype outside of eso though

i dont think it really is in mmos

[wooden timber]

i honestly gravitated towards rogue when i was picking up wow because i heard it had alot going on and asked alot from u if u wanted to play it well

[haughty flicker]

other media absolutely though

[wooden timber]

made me motivated to learn it]

idk if i feel that way about any spec now w/ the pruning and its kinda sad

ill see though

[haughty flicker]

i think ninja is pretty popular in bdo

but its also been an s tier pick in pvp for years

[kindred cipher]

no, thats dhs and locks. youre 3rd place at best bud

[jaunty notch]

I would love some deadly aura for rogue

Like a big splash or bleed or shit like that

[haughty flicker]

kyveza effects for sub any day now

[kindred cipher]

theyre hurt. and so are you. you guys dont understand how good other specs have it

and/or classes

[jaunty notch]

@kindred cipher I will tell you the truth

[haughty flicker]

its true

[lean plover]

We know other classes have better visuals

[haughty flicker]

no rogue has ever ventured beyond the gates

[lean plover]

I still dont get your point hana

[jaunty notch]

before rogue I was playing hunter, and I was playing the worst of the 3 spec each season on purpose

[haughty flicker]

the wider world is vast and frightening

[jaunty notch]

just to have a challenge

(I never touched BM of my life)

[kindred cipher]

you will one day

[lean plover]

So what is your point

[kindred cipher]

you deserve better

[jaunty notch]

hana is not beating the vagueposting allegations

[lean plover]

Better visuals? We know

[jaunty notch]

https://tenor.com/view/ambiguous-cryptic-elaborate-gatekeeping-no-details-gif-511994688754115256

[lean plover]

Better gameplay? I like current one

[still nymph]

you do understand that this is just tuning and as soon as blizzards reduces CT dmg to emphasize FoK more, your playstyle is gone? If you can't or don't want to make decisions in your rotation, then just play BM or the OBR? Why try to change something other people enjoy? Following your messages it looks like you think everyone except the 4 people interacting with you think the same as you. But the general feedback around midnight sin is pretty good

[jaunty notch]

@kindred cipher what is your favorite spec in the game and why ?

[kindred cipher]

im looking it it from blizzards pov. i dont have a major attachment to rogue. its fun, and im playing it cuz my guild needs one. but theres a reason rogue isnt played much. you guys can gripe about how fun you find it, at the end oif the day they wont give a fuck about your class unless its played a lor

[winged widget]

ah yes.
the eternal loop of "class only gets dev time if played a lot, but is only played a lot if given dev time"

[kindred cipher]

and the fact that you cant even take criticism speaks volumes...

[lean plover]

I dont care about other players having fun on rogue

As long as im having it

[jaunty notch]

there is a HUGE difference on us not taking criticism, and blatantly being CLUELESS about the class itself

[still nymph]

What do you mean with that? They improved it going into midnight. If you are talking about performance, people already told you, they would rather play something fun than something at the top of the chart. You can literally play any spec you want if you are not going for WFR. It will work, believe me.

[kindred cipher]

do you really think this is not a reality?

[lean plover]

You are criticising spec design while we find it good and we have no control over it

[worldly sail]

idk how much dumber you can make rogue at this point

[still nymph]

I think you are the one that just says stuff and want his vision of sin while multiple people tell you, that it is fine and your vision would reduce fun. And the same for your dala build. They askes for data, after you threw a video without comment into the chat and told people to do the work.

[worldly sail]

you WILL spam 1-2-1-2 instead of 1-2-3-1-2

[winged widget]

I think rogue is fine going into midnight for all 3 specs.
apm Outlaw getting nuked is the biggest W rogue ever got in the last 5 years.

[jaunty notch]

Hanasong is a professional ragebaiter

[still nymph]

i give them the benefit of the doubt but at some point even that is gone

[kindred cipher]

as a casual rogue player, i disagree. i think sin was fine. the major prob was stealth. sure, whispyr says its a small dps loss, but most players wont see that when they see their skills say they need to get into stealth. and you mock when some skills apply poisons but others dont say they do

[jaunty notch]

he is just ragebaiting for the love of it atm

I've spent my morning replying to him, and he didn't gave me a single good argument about everything he claimed

and everytime we went in details, he vanished and came back 15min after

[kindred cipher]

and im not offended by it. like it was a good learning exp for me. im glad to know that the def poisons are easier to apply

but most other people wanting to learn rogue, wont

[still nymph]

I think having still a stealth component on gar is bad. I dont know why they kept it, reading their vision. Otherwise everything else feels better.

[kindred cipher]

im trying to help you retain players buddy

[jaunty notch]

why would I give a fuck people play my spec or not

I genuinely don't give a single fuck

they could remove rogue that I will swap to anything else I like

It's not that deep

It's just a game

and I'm pretty sure most people feel the same way

[kindred cipher]

i think stealth is the main issue. most of my complains tie into stealth or some variation of it. spreading bleeds is a consquense more than the factor

i liked garrote spam, fuckin sue me

[haughty flicker]

Again, nobody is saying you can't find the old way more fun or can't dislike ct

[jaunty notch]

and also you are not trying anything, for a solid 3 hours of debate, you just admitted that saying that CT and FoK was the same, was stupid, and you didn't had any take that is actually making rogue better

[kindred cipher]

because youre a child if you dont think blizz puts more time and effort into specs more people play

[haughty flicker]

You just came in with a bunch of arguments about why its bad that were all proveably false

[jaunty notch]

you are just trying to ragebait and I'm once again falling for it

[haughty flicker]

And got clowned on for it

[still nymph]

i dont see the difference of spamming gar or spamming ct, besides not needing to tab target rup everytime?

[haughty flicker]

If you just enjoy the old way more thats 100% fair and valid

[still nymph]

and after you are done with spreading you make the choice to switch to the higher damage generator?

[winged widget]

which is kinda funny, because at least half of the wow population i interact with in any shape or form in game is either ret pally or bm/mm hunter.
and these specs combined dont get half the dev time mage gets.

xD

[kindred cipher]

the diff was ct was a spender and its own thing. it required thought. now fok and ct fill the same purpose as a gen. fok needs less energy, and ct spreads bleeds. they both have advantages in the same role

[winged widget]

Rogue issue is not that "people dontplay it". Rogue issue is that its bugs are probably way more annoying to fix and it demands more time, time that could be used doing more stuff elsewhere.

[jaunty notch]

Not a single game have a parfect balance of class/spec and it's childish of you to think you can do it in wow, also you are misunderstanding the difference between tuning and class change, wow as it core have way more problems to solve to make it a better than class change, once again, you are trying to solve an issue that does not exist

[still nymph]

you think pressing the finisher once the bleed goes into pandemic is more thought than checking how many targets are missing bleeds and making a choice which generator is more optimal?

[kindred cipher]

youre wrong. people want to play rogue. even now its hard to approch. two different action bars are hard for people to approch. youre in a bubble

[jaunty notch]

You want to know why people don't play rogue ? Because in s3 your tierset was bugged and half the time your cd are fucked, nothing to have with spells or anything

I've encountered more bug in 1 season of rogue than 3 years of playing hunter

[still nymph]

Where do you get your data from? How do you know, that people struggle with that in particular?

[winged widget]

gotta be super fun to play a spec and lose your entire hero talent to a bug and not be able to play it until your 2minute CD comes back and you can apply a shitty mark

[kindred cipher]

no, i thought i played better inside the stealth window. i would have just expandeded the sleath window, or eliminayed it

[still nymph]

but they eliminated it. Besides the small gain from gar?

[kindred cipher]

look at general pop class stats, and tell me where rogue is

[winged widget]

different actions bars are hard for people to approach? buddy, you can legit place the same buttons in the same keybinds lmao

[kindred cipher]

it should be like top 3, btw

[winged widget]

also, druid is one of the most played classes

[still nymph]

yes, rogue is low. But where do you get your data, that it is low approachability?

[winged widget]

and they have 10 billion bars

xD

[jaunty notch]

I swear he is ragebaiting

[kindred cipher]

yes i know. im not asking you to convince me

[winged widget]

Imagine saying assassination has "low approachability". bait used to be believable

xD

[jaunty notch]

He is insane

[still nymph]

that or still not realising that he is the one in the bubble xD

[cunning needle]

i mean he's right about some things

wrong about others

[cunning needle]

what those some things are, i'm not going to say

[jaunty notch]

XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

bro

you can't just drop random graph

[winged widget]

Druid 2nd most played

[still nymph]

yes, but where is the reason for those splits?

[cunning needle]

nah that's not random graph

[winged widget]

gotta use different bar for each druid form

touché

[cunning needle]

that was dropped sometime start of TWW

[winged widget]

[jaunty notch]

bro

this graph he sent

has

ZERO CONTEXT

what are we doing with that

[winged widget]

i'm laughing

not sure about y'all

[still nymph]

seeing what i already confirmed to him

[jaunty notch]

Im dead laughing

[kindred cipher]

class stats? u guys okay?

[jaunty notch]

spent my whole morning falling for the ragebait

[still nymph]

wish they would change adventurer. that is a dead class :o

[cunning needle]

it's the shit i have to deal with in tech support when people send a screenshot of one small part of the error, instead of just a screenshot of the entire screen

[winged widget]

Blizz's little golden child class not being the most played?

being on the bottom half?

but dev time though

[cunning needle]

but yeah that graph is max level 80 chars or something

[jaunty notch]

WHAT THE CORRELATION BETWEEN A GRAPH AND THE APPROACHABILLITY

THERE IS

[cunning needle]

secret

[jaunty notch]

NO

FUCKING

[cunning needle]

secret value

[jaunty notch]

CORRELATION BETWEEN THE TWO

[kindred cipher]

yes that was max level

[jaunty notch]

he is

either

12

[kindred cipher]

wait, you guys legit didnt know this

[still nymph]

alright

[winged widget]

he probably saw some comment in some max stream and decide to preach here

[jaunty notch]

this is insane

like

[still nymph]

ill go get dinner. he is just rage baiting. oh well. thats what we get for good faith

[jaunty notch]

he have the critical thinking of a toddler

[lean plover]

Everyone here knows rogue is top 3 least played specs

[winged widget]

blud announcing that rogue is one of the least played specs as if we didnt know it for years

xD

[jaunty notch]

😂

[hollow river]

[kindred cipher]

i mean, with how they reacted to other info, i wasnt sure

[winged widget]

cant wait until he discovers that rogue has one of the worst leveling experiences

it's gonna be nuts

[cunning needle]

tbh with how sub is now

it's better

[winged widget]

keyword being "now"

[kindred cipher]

imagine thinking leveling is hard lol

[jaunty notch]

He is vagueposting, assuming thing, drop random graph without context, dodge every single question we ask him

but he want "to make the spec better"

[winged widget]

leveling rogue 1 year ago.
press 10 billion buttons to kill 1 mob.

leveling any other class 1 year ago.
press funny button. mob dies.

[thorn crater]

honestly how is assassination bad at leveling now with the new CT?

i dont see it

[worldly sail]

so you try to say you know why people don't play rogue, when one of the biggest complaints i see is THE LEVELING SUCKS?

[lost pollen]

Thats not what he said tho

[winged widget]

geez, i wonder why people didnt bother with rogue

xD

[worldly sail]

[kindred cipher]

ni hao?

nah imk, leveling sucks no matter what u plau

[jaunty notch]

I did my rogue leveling by spending 100k in dragonflight

[jaunty notch]

real question is: who are the people who think any retail leveling is hard ?

[kindred cipher]

that honestly seems cheap.

[winged widget]

it's not about being 'hard"

it's about sucking ass

or sucking big fat hairy ass

[kindred cipher]

no one thinks its hard. we dont want to do it because it isnt hard

[jaunty notch]

I didn't handleveled any characters since dragonflight

fuck that shit

even on hunter

leveling is BORING

[earnest remnant]

i know people that do 20+ characters on launch

and i dont envy them

[jaunty notch]

spamming time walking with 2 talents point

[shrewd night]

I do as many as I can just so I dont have to do it later

[earnest remnant]

i do the characters i need for splits

then i dont do more

[kindred cipher]

any poors wanna make 100kg?

[worldly sail]

thats 220 pounds for the freedom oriented players

[jaunty notch]

I do 1 character at launch, then I pay people for it

[lethal arrow]

I level my main, my pvp character, and my 3 profession alts

[chilly herald]

At least we got Recuperate now. I remember leveling rogue in DF and was annoying to stunlock mobs and still eat every 2-3 mobs. Couldn't survive 3-4 mobs w/o evasion

[lethal arrow]

100kg damn fat as hell

[kindred cipher]

the first one is the hardest tho

the rest u can just dungeon grind

[jaunty notch]

yeah bro

its hard to kill 2 squirells

and collect 2 herbs

[cunning needle]

first is the funnest though

[lethal arrow]

It's nice when ur fully geared and then it falls off

[kindred cipher]

hard=boring. keep up

[blazing totem]

people actually struggle with leveling? I thought that was a meme

that was relevant like back in classic

[jaunty notch]

seem like

[worldly sail]

if anything the first character is the only non boring one because you get to play new stuff

[kindred cipher]

hey, no one here was judging you mom. just calm down

[blazing totem]

I see many little zacs

[jaunty notch]

you are so cringe man

wow

suck to be you

[kindred cipher]

not what your mom said

[shrewd night]

[worldly sail]

[jaunty notch]

[pliant remnant]

GOTEMMMMMMM

[jaunty notch]

@kindred cipher what your favorite spec in the game ? you didnt answer earlier

[kindred cipher]

ret, enhance, outlaw. maybe sin last season. but a for mains, ret and enhance

[jaunty notch]

who would have guessed you play ret

[chilly herald]

I mean, as a frost mage or a tank you pull 50 mobs no problem. Can't do that as a rogue

[kindred cipher]

i also played enhance u turd

[blazing totem]

I mean sure but is that really what people understand as leveling nowadays?

[jaunty notch]

joke are writing themselves

[chilly herald]

You have to do the campaign

[blazing totem]

I like to take my time and actually do the questline, you just level up during that

not grind 50 mobs

I never had any problems as rogue during all these years

ever

[chilly herald]

Well if you like to get maxlvl in more than 1 day maybe yeah

I prefer to do it in one sitting

[blazing totem]

but why? mythic isnt even unlocked

I rly dont wanan burn myself out first day

[kindred cipher]

bro, when i played ret, its was harder than sin is now lol. and it was the dumb spec then

[shrewd night]

Good one, bud

[jaunty notch]

That's what a ret main would have said

[chilly herald]

I need to level like 5-6 characters and don't have infinite time. Have to be efficient

[agile wedge]

pay somebody 😄