assassination

[spice surge]

Don't be silly, they'll nerf outlaw auto attack damage by 15%

[drifting cloud]

are m0s daily or weekly now

hard to keep track when its swapped like 2 times already

[solar wyvern]

Fixed a bug that was negatively effecting outlaws auto attacks with the killing spree talent, to compensate the autp attacks are being reduced

:^)

[spice surge]

Grind m0/m+ until you have full HC

[drifting cloud]

do you have a guild for first tier eleem?

[spice surge]

Also @solar wyvern Darkmoon hunt on dagger seems good,probably better than arcanoweave

[spice surge]

[drifting cloud]

[violet island]

weekly

hey whisypr, there is some info that shows that heroc/mythic will be available on march 3, but obviously we dont have any real confirmation unless you have some info

[drifting cloud]

ty

[balmy condor]

https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/news/24264416/midnight-raid-overview-and-schedule

have some real confirmation

[drifting cloud]

I believe he meant dungeons

[balmy condor]

oh

[violet island]

I did mean dungeon yes

sorry

m0

There's posts saying that seasonal heroic and m0 dungeons start on the 17th

But there's some other info showing pre-season heroic and m0 dungeons at a reduced ilvl on the 3rd

[stuck lodge]

with no tuning happening, does this mean that the testers on beta can basically tell us what is the best build/rotation already?

[drifting cloud]

yesnt, but take it with a grain of salt and most of it will only be valid for a week

[violet island]

m0 information is from:

1. the video at Gamescom where Ion specifically mentions that they'll be available week 1 of preseason launch
2. the reduced ilvl on beta in the dungeon journal of m0 dungeons that are not part of season 1
3. which tracks with the reduced heroic ilvls for the same dungeons, which was the same as the first weeks of TWW heroic

Time stamped vid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHa5CDWYtXg&t=1290s

Here's the info for it

[stuck lodge]

well it would be until the 17th right?

[balmy condor]

yeh no clue

[violet island]

we have no clue yeah

I just thought I'd mention it since I saw you talk about it

[drifting cloud]

oh right yeah sure, I just automatically dont count as anything before 17th as content my bad

[stuck lodge]

yeah thats probably fair

[balmy condor]

I assume whatever m0 would be coming out on the 17th

[violet island]

2 weeks ye

[severe meadow]

This what I be going off

[violet island]

Wowhead is going off the same information everyone else

[balmy condor]

what is "normal difficulties"

[violet island]

They aren't willing to speculate on a main page like that

[stuck lodge]

Literally just normal I guess?

[severe meadow]

Just a regular ass dungeon, yeah

[violet island]

They do just mean "normal" difficulty

[balmy condor]

[violet island]

Wowhead is going off of the same info as the rest of us

And they're making their best guess

Just like everyone else

There's no primary information other than the ion quote from 6 months ago

[balmy condor]

it's gonna be a long ass 3 weeks

[severe meadow]

We don't get heroic dungeons for the first 2 weeks if that is correct

[violet island]

We had heroic dungeons in TWW and its unlikely theyd take that away

[balmy condor]

perfect that gives them time to tune befo-

[drifting cloud]

I think its just convoluted because you have all the midnight dungeons on nm/hc but you dont have them on m0 since only half are in the season pool

[violet island]

All 8 will be available as m0, as shown in the dungeon journal on live right now

Then when s1 starts, it would swap to the 8 seasonal dungeons

Which is what happened during TWW launch (just without m0)

[balmy condor]

yeah idk man, this pre-patch/expansion release cadence is literally the most dogshit expansion rollout I have ever seen in my life

[violet island]

I agree

Because all of what I just said could be complete BS and we only get normal

There's just no info

[severe meadow]

ye, didn't they even push m+ a week back

3 weeks in instead of 2

[violet island]

m+ is the 24th ye

[balmy condor]

all of the wowhead guide updates for midnight launch are cooked beyond belief because they pushed all the midnight data into prepatch but also not really and the talent calculators are in some weird half-state and it just obliterated our databases

so guide rollout this week

is also a fucking disaster

just

[violet island]

oof

[balmy condor]

god fucking damnit man

[violet island]

Sorry I didn't mean to tack on

[balmy condor]

why can't you be normal blizzard

[haughty flicker]

[violet island]

Was just trying to give some info

[balmy condor]

yeah yeah

[drifting cloud]

pretty sure you could do the tww dungeons on normal even after season launch

[balmy condor]

I just hate life

[violet island]

go femboy for saeldur

[drifting cloud]

can even do them now

[violet island]

Ye, those are non-seasonal normals

[drifting cloud]

its just all over the place

I guess because theyre lvling dungeons

thats why its only normal and not heroic aswell

[balmy condor]

yeah but there's only 4 leveling dungeons in midnight

and 4 max level only

[drifting cloud]

oh ...

[violet island]

I'm willing to bet gold cap we'll have 8 midnight dungeons on heroic but the mythic 0 im more iffy on

despite ion saying it

it was 6 months ago

[balmy condor]

I'm willing to jump off a bridge for literally free

just say the word

[severe meadow]

under 0 pressure btw

[violet island]

Nah you're a good egg

[drifting cloud]

oh sorry I meant right now for retail, should work for heroic in mn

I remember I didnt do hc dungeons in preseason so then I just couldnt get the achivements for half of them until s2

everyone using that bee nuke trinket that didnt split dmg

for 2 days before they nerfed it or however it took

[solar wyvern]

Emergency testing (padding) commencing, st or aoe prefered

[balmy condor]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1083360651394678784/1475650624384143422/image.png?ex=699e423d&is=699cf0bd&hm=656db5a19ee27eb2bf2f967bfaaeec8f1c7b019ca5ae8711d5e6abb6e484f16a&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

it's just secondary stats

[solar wyvern]

O

Elemental abberation zzz

[severe meadow]

@thorn thorn wake up

[drifting cloud]

swap enchants between packs

[solar wyvern]

Its an embellishment

...

Which i COULD do....

[balmy condor]

why are we swapping embellishments between packs

[solar wyvern]

Joking haha

My .5% gain whispyr

My .5%!!!!

Get that nasty haste away from sub

[thorn thorn]

hm

[severe meadow]

I wanted you to name this Mareep for my nuzlocke run but you're too late

[spice spire]

https://gif.fxtwitter.com/tweet_video/HAUeFtVbwAAsTbB.gif

[signal karma]

what's this about comparing everything to guardian druid lol, did Sims drop or something

[balmy condor]

guardian is like 110k in ST

and nothing is close

[signal karma]

lol it'll be fine there's next to no chance that's left as is for long

what's the state look like if the tank damage goes down substantially

[hallow glade]

How about a month

[balmy condor]

I mean at minimum until heroic raids release

and then it's a question of whether or not they actually fix it

[hexed frost]

!ui

[prisma monolith]

Assassination UI Imports:
Currently not available. Sharing UI's is not as standarized as it was with Weakauras.

For now, browse the following Blizzard HUD and Blizzard CDM imports on Wago:

• Blizzard HUD
• Blizzard CDM

[finite jay]

yo team do we just sandbag and afk in raid so we get buffed ?

[subtle tundra]

if everyone sandbags then its as if nobody sandbags. overperform. assert dominance

[drifting cloud]

dont play assa at all then they wont know what to do

[grim jay]

So they will just do nothing

[wide berry]

when spreading bleeds now is it better to send an env at 5 cp or hold and press a tempest instead

[balmy condor]

if you're trying to pad your AoE, you should use ct to spread

[wide berry]

👍 ty whispyr

[jovial idol]

Always pad

Never unpad

[wide berry]

the numbers spike my dopamine

[sly blade]

Hi! Quick question, we don't shiv anymore?

[balmy condor]

correct

[sly blade]

Ty!

[exotic hazel]

I'm sure implacable will solve all our energy problems and they've just perfectly designed our spec for level 90 gameplay

[balmy condor]

god I fucking hope so

the bitching about energy is getting really old

[exotic hazel]

Once people understand pooling, and fingers crossed the tuning makes it feel worthwhile for big moments, I reckon it'll be smooth enough

[jolly stirrup]

[vestal wren]

could i interesst you in some energy, fine sir?

[balmy condor]

I would be very interested in some energy

guides are supposed to go live in..... 7.5 hours

and I'm missing..... 5 specs

and review is like

super doomed

hope no one made a typo

[lethal turtle]

No one reads. Just use pictures

[rare stone]

As someone that suffers from CFS I am playing assa as a self insert so I can feel low energy in game and irl

[lethal turtle]

Time to jump on test mots-c and nad+

[onyx coyote]

The people complaining about pooling should remmeber the horrors of energy in the clasicc/tbc days.

[lethal turtle]

People do that probably weren’t playing then

[weary stump]

You could say people put too much energy into it

[balmy condor]

easiest ban of my life

[weary stump]

[sinful verge]

Do we have sims yet for midnight full gear ST / multi target etc

[balmy condor]

we do, whatcha need

[sinful verge]

I mean nothing too specific. Wanted to have a look at the numbers / rotations - Also wanted to compare the 3 specs

[balmy condor]

I think all 3 rogue specs are like mid to high 80k in ST

aoe is probably another story

but the rotations are functionally identical to prepatch

new guides will be up later today as well

but then again like

https://www.wowhead.com/news/no-class-tuning-planned-until-march-17th-what-to-expect-for-class-tuning-in-380495?utm_source=discord-webhook

[sinful verge]

Okay cool, can you link them so i can have a bit of a dive?

[balmy condor]

[nova aspen]

[balmy condor]

can't wait

lemme fish out an assa sim

I don't have the other ones

[sinful verge]

Thanks man

appreciate it

how do you feel about no tuning until 17th?

[spice surge]

Best dps spec being guardian is strange

[balmy condor]

I want to calmly talk to the person who made that decision, in a non-threatening manner

and ask them if they were dropped as a child

it's frankly the only explanation I would have for them deciding to do this

[balmy condor]

https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4REfmczYdp4TBHhWyN5CzQ

[lethal turtle]

Sin 80k ww 105k bear 150k

[frosty cedar]

hahahaha

[balmy condor]

don't look at the puzzlebox cast

just

don't remind me

I am aware

[frosty cedar]

I have heard demonology sim is unbelievable as well

[sinful verge]

reasonable response haha

[primal jolt]

wtf is that puzzlebox cast

[sinful verge]

Thanks for the link @balmy condor

[balmy condor]

banned

[primal jolt]

[sinful verge]

demo is high rolling 200k

kinda mad

[balmy condor]

yah I mean when guardian druid is beating 80%+ of dps specs

none of the numbers make any fucking sense

[exotic hazel]

For those who played the beta, did you track your implacable stacks/envenom timings or did you not intentionally play around it?

[hidden crystal]

Wait a second. I thought they were going to make rogue great again

[balmy condor]

normally I would avoid linking sims until season launch because there's a lot of losers on the internet who will see it and then bitch about it and slap it into tier lists and whatever the fuck nonsense

[hidden crystal]

Did the rogue dev get fired and outsourced?

[balmy condor]

but with how shit the tuning is right now

literally what does it matter if I link a sim or not

[hidden crystal]

Why do we do this to ourselves though

[balmy condor]

why do we do what

[balmy condor]

you want to play around it, you can't track it though

[hidden crystal]

It just feels like we’re often in a weird state. That’s all.

[balmy condor]

yeah well, if you go to any other class discord they'll say the same thing

"weird state" is just the default

[exotic hazel]

If weird is the default, it's not weird

[balmy condor]

it's the same with like "rogue is always the most bugged"

[balmy condor]

which just isn't true

but as rogue players it feels that way

even though every spec has a shit ton of bugs

[lethal turtle]

The 17th better be twitlonger type status of changes

[severe meadow]

0/0 on the search lil gup

[exotic hazel]

Sorry, sounds like a sarcastic question but I promise it's not - how can we play around something we can't track?

[severe meadow]

Maybe some pvp changes

[lethal turtle]

this makes sense to no one.

[hardy dagger]

Heroic week is gonna be a meme

[severe meadow]

Count in your head

[balmy condor]

count to 5 in your head or flick your eyes up at your buffs like a classic player

[severe meadow]

Or out loud with voice open

That could be really funny

[exotic hazel]

Ah so it's in our butts not our cooldown tracker - got it

Buffs not butts 😂

[tame atlas]

well they do say in the blue post " We may also hotfix any especially disruptive bugs or tuning issues at any point in time" but they probably won't do anyting right?

[balmy condor]

if you're quick enough between GCDs, you can do like a tally on a notepad

[balmy condor]

yeah whatever the hell that means

"especially disruptive bugs" like fatebound tier in s3

famously a fixed bug

[exotic hazel]

Guess I'm going to use one of those custom buff tracker addons and see if one works for tracking it

[balmy condor]

it does not

don't waste your time

[solar wyvern]

Someone i know who used to work on the dev team but keeps in touch has informed me the reason is "very dumb, but the rational is there, and it just kinda sucks"

Sounded like a management issue, my guess is microsoft merger tbh

[balmy condor]

yeah I mean

most obvious explanation since gravity

doesn't mean it's any less braindead

[solar wyvern]

I mean sometimes theres very good reasons, but this one is a "whoopsies we mismanaged and regular tuning is expensive"

Allegedly

Ofc

[balmy condor]

[static glacier]

I think they’re just giving themselves no room for error with this move

[balmy condor]

hell, give me an internship and I'll do it for free

[static glacier]

They’re easing stress now but doubling down on crunch post season release

[balmy condor]

paid in exposure

I can change some numbers around

[static glacier]

Have you actually applied to work at Blizz?

[balmy condor]

nah

[static glacier]

If they took skullflower why not you

[solar wyvern]

You may do it for free but then it has to pass through every other class dev, qa, the people working on versions 1 and 3, the people working on versions 4 and 2

[balmy condor]

the british rock band?

[static glacier]

The dk TC 😂

He got hired by Blizz and they named some legendaries / talents after him

I used to use his ui

[balmy condor]

that's okay I'll do that too

[solar wyvern]

[balmy condor]

inshallah I shall nerf CT with my bare hands if I must

[coral ibex]

wallahi you are doomed

[balmy condor]

human hands have built mighty structures so too may they bring devastation to CT

[coral ibex]

bro go to bed its 5:47 am for you

pookie needs sleep

[balmy condor]

I don't think you understand what my job entails

this is a no sleep kinda night

I just cracked the third monster

[coral ibex]

dont let the third monster crack you

[static glacier]

Inb4 he changes envenom to monster

[solar wyvern]

He's pulling out the guava!!!

[balmy condor]

I'm sticking my nuts into the peach monster you cannot stop me

[coral ibex]

oh is today early access or something

[balmy condor]

the carbonation makes my loins tingle

[tight ginkgo]

bottoms up... and the devil laughs

[wooden timber]

[severe meadow]

[balmy condor]

today is guide go live day

[solar wyvern]

Change the sound files to crackin open a cold one every time you envenom

[balmy condor]

maybe that's how we track implacable

[severe meadow]

@thorn thorn collection?

[balmy condor]

5 cracks of the monster and you take a pause

[wooden timber]

5 big boom

[solar wyvern]

A good ol slurp every bleed application

Oh shit

And the implacable strikes sounds is you chuggging it down, gluglugglugglugglug

Lock it in

[coral ibex]

need that for every tea proc

slorp slorp slorp slop slorp

[balmy condor]

bro you cannot be slorpglorpin it at 6am

I am vulnerable

[spice surge]

Its not 6 am here, i can slorpaglorp how much i want

[solar wyvern]

I just woke up im shlorpin

[balmy condor]

not sure if I need to pee because of the 400mg of caffeine pulsing through my bloodstream

or because charrend is shlorpin

[spice surge]

But also im not slorpaglorpin at all, im doing laundry

[solar wyvern]

Yall ever get the tumbler to start spinnin and you get right into the fabric softener hole and let the machine do the shlorpin?

No just me

Ight

[subtle tundra]

i dont recommend. the blood made me faint

[lean plover]

blizzard qa

[balmy condor]

don't mind charrend

he's a little special

[lean plover]

i know

i watch his streams

[balmy condor]

damn

[lean plover]

the 3 times a year he does

[balmy condor]

I haven't been lucky enough to catch a charrend stream

[lean plover]

hes my fav rogue streamer tho

[balmy condor]

ouch

[lean plover]

the swirly incident was too funny

ill never stop making fun of it

[lean plover]

sorry pookie you are already my fav rogue youtuber, you cant have all 3 top spots

[balmy condor]

I'm a selfish lover

[lean plover]

you already sharing your love with like 400 other people

[balmy condor]

yah well

I'm the selfish one

helps that I like men I guess, it instantly 20x multiplies my potential harem

[lean plover]

well

liking men is the #1 requisite to be in this channel

[balmy condor]

[lean plover]

idc about numbers i want homoerotic buddies

[balmy condor]

so real

[royal lantern]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/392807916543017000/1475803277923975240/levellingtraining.mp4?ex=699ed068&is=699d7ee8&hm=59ccdee80664c965a7f3e50f8fe9b848573dd3b788371ceb69271b20579066bf&

[hallow token]

Must be the last week or so of an expansion.

"We solved everything we could and there's no point solving anything more that we couldn't because it all goes in the shitter in a week anyway. Nerf paladins"

[balmy condor]

where's the vodka

[hallow token]

^^endorsed

[runic hinge]

@spice spire

[lean plover]

the funny thing is that anyone could be the gaslighting zac

[balmy condor]

including zac

[lean plover]

who was the guy that got banned

that was the goat of zac gaslighting

[lean plover]

true lmfao

but there was a guy

ryuku?

something like that

[spice spire]

That’s why I’m not allowed here anymore

🥀

[nova aspen]

i thought all quake did in here was flirt with men

[coral ibex]

AMEN

[stuck lodge]

Count to 5 let it drop is a good level of complexity for me. I picked a correct spec

[coral ibex]

brother quake is unfairly treated

[royal lantern]

lack of george pics does that to us

[lean plover]

you call your d george?

[weary stump]

No he means the curious monkey

https://tenor.com/view/curious-george-george-pbs-kids-headphones-listening-to-music-gif-1327312097528114379

[runic hinge]

Yeah okay. I got DMs to leak

[rigid sphinx]

does someone know how to make garrote glow in pandemic on arcui ?

[spice spire]

Leak them pussy

[balmy condor]

do NOT leak pussy

[runic hinge]

[spice surge]

Seems like one of the worst places to store a leak

[weary stump]

If it doesn't leak how else will the pet crabs play in the water park

[indigo epoch]

So what classes everyone rerolling to? >.<

[spice surge]

If you are a sim fotm enjoyer

Guardian seems to be your best bet for dps

[oblique sorrel]

Is sin th go to for raid?

[balmy condor]

mix of sin and sub probably

as per usual

[oblique sorrel]

Poor outlaw

[balmy condor]

nobody is going to use a spark on a sword I'm afraid

would be an insane troll

[weary stump]

Outlaw has too much carpal tunnel in their life anyways

[balmy condor]

like outlaw suffers from the same fate as always

no burst, and it's a required sword

when the other two specs can't use it

so crafting an outlaw weapon is just immediately unplayable other specs

and crafting a dagger is just why would you play outlaw

[weary stump]

Blizzard should just make outlaw a ranged spec already

[balmy condor]

realistically if you wanna play outlaw on a fight

the best thing you could do is level a second rogue

so you can one trick outlaw on that one

and then just play sub/assa on the first

[little tulip]

not to be the erm guy but outlaw also uses maces and axes

you have a decently high chance of getting something even if it has weird secondary stats

definitely have a 2nd rogue to one trick outlaw from legion timewalking tho

[balmy condor]

yeah but are you seriously going to take a myth track MACE OR AXE MY APOLOGIES from your vault

over like

any other piece of gear

[little tulip]

eheh

i didn't see a dagger in vault this season

in fact the only dungeon dagger i saw was from a taz hard mode after the squish

[sacred oyster]

watch me get one finally today and then it be meh. im currently MH'ing everforged as its best i got

[fallow canopy]

You should try getting one in vault this time around

[sacred oyster]

but with how much the ilvl is jumping, the level up campaign is prob replacing everything quick. surprised they added another 120 levels

[tight ginkgo]

https://tenor.com/view/norm-mcdonald-deeply-closeted-norm-macdonald-coming-out-gif-7090037204192265178

[spice spire]

Me fr

Also et tu brute?

[balmy condor]

et tu muse

[oblique sorrel]

Fair points.

[spice spire]

https://gif.fxtwitter.com/tweet_video/HAUeFtVbwAAsTbB.gif

[pliant remnant]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923750073499648/1292477218462634115/vlc_2024-10-06_08-22-07.gif

[balmy condor]

https://tenor.com/view/i-love-ntr-i-love-narita-top-road-narita-top-road-umamusume-uma-musume-gif-17961416722538279650

[spice spire]

What does this mean Vhispyr

[balmy condor]

https://umamusume.fandom.com/wiki/Narita_Top_Road

[spice spire]

Ty

[severe meadow]

Ty

[spice spire]

Sass me again and I’ll eat your ass until it’s the texture of a cat’s tongue

[nova aspen]

[weary stump]

Whenever I see someone post a ntr meme I just think of a parody song of that's amore about said topic

[severe meadow]

Think of dn

[weary stump]

Dietz and Watson meat nuts?

[severe meadow]

Permaybe

[fallow canopy]

Why are we threatening people with a good time?

[spice spire]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1365600517417467914/1447164628441501767/G7eDB38WkAAC7rW.gif

Because

[fallow canopy]

understandable have a great day ||(and invite me next time)||

[balmy condor]

rogues don't get invites

[fallow canopy]

🥀 my fate keeps being bound

[balmy condor]

today is truly the darkest night

[weary stump]

Rogues get invited to one thing actually, retirement homes

We thrive there

[tight ginkgo]

i have a singular focus on whispyr as my edge case ya feel me?

[balmy condor]

[shy axle]

prio fully on whispyr

[balmy condor]

midnight hair is happening today

and hopefully I can also record video again

in theory my hell ends today

[severe meadow]

We on the 4th monster yet or

[balmy condor]

no

third monster

and then bed

3 hour nap

and then we get up and grind

[tight ginkgo]

what color is your hair going to be for midnight

[balmy condor]

midnight colors

going full blue and purple

[lethal turtle]

https://tenor.com/view/bunny-belly-rub-belly-slap-gif-11344238899365820282

[snow kindle]

Am i crazy or does the capstone apex talent seem buns

[lethal turtle]

yeah it is bootyhole

[balmy condor]

it's worth taking over any other talent

so

depends on your definition of buns

I know plenty of specs that are not taking their apex points at all rn

[shy axle]

really? damn

which ones?

[balmy condor]

I can go double check real quick, tuning might've changed it

but I have access to the talent pages the writers submitted

yeah looks like void scarred devourer is avoiding it

rider of the apoc unholy as well

well maybe not

I think shadow was also avoiding it

but yeh

there's like 5-8 specs I think that just aren't taking it

[jolly stirrup]

Ok but how can Blizzard fuxk up so badly and make Talents that are so dogshit they are not worth taking

[weary stump]

They're very talented people

[balmy condor]

idk, why would blizzard make iron wire our only utility point, put it so low that you can't take it for the damage loss alone, and then make it not even cleave anymore

[shy axle]

ty, shame

[weary stump]

Clearly this means distract will be used in raid again to give us other utility

[quiet oriole]

Coming out of hibernation. With launch coming soon. How's ass feeling rotation wise/ damage compared to others atm?

Mid?

[jolly stirrup]

True

[nova aspen]

surely its becuz we simply don't need utility in keys anymore

[jolly stirrup]

[weary stump]

We will thrive I am sure

[snow kindle]

Is it something we would prio in AOE aswell?

[balmy condor]

you take 4/4 apex everywhere

[velvet ridge]

You know how WAs had a growing group, so you could put bars in, and they would slide up or down.
Does any addon do that right now? ARCui doesn't have a group that grows, and honestly the addon doesn't work half the time

[snow kindle]

ok ty

[stiff fern]

Unholy def takes its apex fwiw

[blazing totem]

idk if they still do but arms used to do just 1 point in apex

not very apex kekw

[night delta]

Really think they missed the mark with the whole concept of apex

I imagine they did it so they don't have too much trouble balancing the trees with more available points, but on principle apex talents are antithetical with talent trees

If it's purposefully designed to be too good to pass, and it's locked to your last 4 points, it's just not a talent design-space wise

it's a tier set bonus

[blazing totem]

yeah either they are too good to pass up in which case it is mandatory 4 point tax at which point it makes no sense to have them technically optional

[weary stump]

Hear me out, next expansion we get buff options to the apex talent, which get called legends

[blazing totem]

or they are not that good so you dont invest in them, but then why call them Apex talent

and if people ignore the new feature, it is kinda pointless

[humble verge]

we are still hitting on 5cp right

[night delta]

and what happens next expac ? More ranks on apex ? Other apex to mandatorily fill out ?

[shy heron]

The one thing that I don't like about sub's apex is that they took functinality we already had and put a bow on it and said "look! New content!"

[humble verge]

maybe my CDM cp border is wrong

[blazing totem]

yeah this was funny

[feral wasp]

does it really matter

99% finds what is best and plays that

[fallow canopy]

convert to the wangbar supremacy

[severe meadow]

🏄 🏄‍♀️

[night delta]

I think at some point they'll have to go Cataclysm and prune down talent trees and reduce our talent points allowance

Piling on more and more on top just isn't sustainable in the long run either way

or just abandon the idea of giving us more points per expac entirely

[balmy condor]

They already said as much for 14.0 btw

Hero talents and apex talents were confirmed to not be evergreen long ago

[humble verge]

14.0 bro in the future

[balmy condor]

They do the trilogy and then destroy everything

[balmy condor]

I mean that’s what it is though

[humble verge]

wass

wdym

destroy everything

🤨

[night delta]

no more wow

wow 2 in production

[severe meadow]

WoW 2

[humble verge]

[onyx linden]

I feel like people complained about cataclysm talent trees having less choice, yet still just copy paste the guides now.

[humble verge]

wait what

[bronze marsh]

I thought they specifically said hero talents were an evergreen feature

[humble verge]

WOW2

[night delta]

see you 2035

[humble verge]

AINT NO WAY

HOOOLY

[night delta]

(this is a joke btw)

they haven't confirmed what they'll actually do

[severe meadow]

Classic +

[humble verge]

i got pranked

[severe meadow]

Wake up

[humble verge]

[humble verge]

TWW+

[night delta]

just that the Worldsoul saga will wrap a neat bowtie on a lot of things

[severe meadow]

[humble verge]

i mean

who left are there to kill

besides new guys we dont know about

[sacred oyster]

space aliens

[severe meadow]

New guy they tie into the lore in a shit way

[humble verge]

me when i

[sacred oyster]

always more new space aliens to find and kill

[humble verge]

👔

[night delta]

it's been like this for a good while

like since cata

they've either just created new baddies, or recycled dead ones

[severe meadow]

The good days..

[balmy condor]

Yeah they said it would be evergreen for the trilogy

[onyx linden]

Battle for azeroth 2

[severe meadow]

No

[night delta]

ESSENCES

[onyx linden]

kick up that good ole horde v alliance they rekindle every 3-4 expacs

[runic hinge]

Shadowlands 2

[night delta]

Hmm, good ole essence farming

[sacred oyster]

they could always go back to WARcraft and end this lovecraft nonsense and make the horde and alliance kill each other again

[bronze marsh]

ah didn't see the caveat it was just for the saga

[severe meadow]

I’m okay with shadowlands +

[runic hinge]

Bring back korthia @ember mural

[severe meadow]

They can make it not dog

[night delta]

Shadowlands remix with warpspeed covenant systems and opened up like 9.2 from the beginning

can be maybe not ass

didn't say good

just not ass

[severe meadow]

I didn’t make it that far I don’t think

I quit super early into BFA and shadowlands

[night delta]

I suffered Korthia so I could witness Necrolord + Ice gems in Sanctum of Domination

The survivability was glorious

Feint + Necro bubble + procced gem shield you legit could survive mechanics that were intended to oneshot everyone

I think once we soaked a meteor ability at only 2 players

But I wouldn't scoff at anyone who experienced Nathria as sin and fucked right off

that was so damn awful

[lethal turtle]

video?

[spice surge]

What an exquisite ambasssador we've chosen to represent our spec

[weary stump]

New tier list, which monster flavor carbonation makes them tingle the most

[hollow pike]

Can they also try monster vs ghost.

I need to know peach monster vs cherry limeade ghost

[thorn thorn]

He has such a way with words

[humble verge]

can we get much higher

[weary stump]

We'll also find bang cans

How will the bang birthday cake flavor fair

[fresh kelp]

our spec?

[foggy moat]

https://tenor.com/view/marx-karl-marx-communism-soviet-union-marxism-gif-12636906807547980496

[shy axle]

does the 3 point apex talent (strikes 5x in 1 sec after kb) cleave with splatter?

[runic hinge]

How long does our cloak keep working after launch?

[spice surge]

I do partake in the occasional assassination from time to time

[shy axle]

i like ass too

assa°

[thorn crater]

We still muti on 2 targets right? Just CT once and whatever does caustic does after that ?

[pliant remnant]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923750073499648/1292477218462634115/vlc_2024-10-06_08-22-07.gif

[balmy condor]

fok on 2

fok on 3 if you have blindside

[solar harbor]

So I know most here likely are m+ but with the fact we aren't getting tuning til season start, how is assa looking compared to the other two specs for raid?

[severe meadow]

All 3 are pretty close to each other rn

[autumn rover]

Anyone watch Max's tier list vid? Curious on thoughts from shindig on rogue

[severe meadow]

Some hot takes, it’s tier list slop at the end of the day

[buoyant herald]

I suspect he was slightly over critical. Playing the boomie game

[strange bronze]

He was critical of the gameplay not the balance

[clever granite]

hello yall. im new to rogue and was looking to main it in midnight. Now.. ive seen some guides/videos and have tested in the beta client (granted with 250 ms but i dont know if that has any significant impact on training dummys) but i get confused with my envenoms. Ive seen some people say i should space them out so that my envenom buffs almost runs out some people suggested you slam envenoms until your energy gives out and then pool for another wave and the wowhead guide says to drop my envenom with 80% implacable. So do i want to slam 6 5cp envenoms into my enemy and then IF my energy is low drop the buff or do i still want to space my envenoms (or do i want to space them at all) ? thank you all for your time

[balmy condor]

With how long the envenom buff is, you’ll will want to slam your energy (5 envenoms), which will cap your apex talent

And then force the drop to get the energy surge

If you’re in lust or big aoe or something, you’d already have those steroids for your energy and are likely to overcap energy

So in those situations specifically, you can ignore the apex talent and continue slamming envenoms out

Once the high-energy situation you’re in is over, then you can go back to forcing the expiration for the apex

[clever granite]

okay so i really do want to play around the apex-talent regeneration. Thank you very much kind sir :)

[balmy condor]

It’s around 1.5% to do so

Whether or not that’s worth it to you is up to you :P

[clever granite]

ill try to get the best practices down right from the start :D

[lavish whale]

It seems I cant track caustic on nameplates? I tried both plater and platy and they only track bleeds

can we not track poisons?

[spice surge]

You cannot no

But theres no need to either

[lavish whale]

I guess thats true, I just hate not being able to track the stuff I wanna track

[twilit lagoon]

Does CT apply poisons to all enemies it hits, or is that solely for fok?

[balmy condor]

They have the same chance

[spice surge]

Both fok and CT can apply poisons

[balmy condor]

Each hit is just regular chance

[twilit lagoon]

Ok. I wasn't sure because iirc fok called it out and CT didn't

Appreciate the response

[spice surge]

Its really weird that fok calls it out

Because no other spell does

[twilit lagoon]

That's what I thought

[balmy condor]

Yeah, that’s that classic 300 year old Ming dynasty old ass tooltip

[twilit lagoon]

Lol

[balmy condor]

Back when tooltips were written on papyrus and transmitted to your screen via carrier pigeon

[exotic hazel]

You'll also be applying poisons with this

[balmy condor]

Yah I mean not in aoe really that much

But yes

[spice surge]

The scrolls must remain unharmed

[cosmic kraken]

I was able to track it via the CDM options - like you would a bleed/dot. I understand wanting to see it's uptime too. lol

[cunning needle]

deadpool because pooling is dead?

[lavish whale]

yeah I found that as well, the reason I wanted to track caustic on nameplate was for a target swap for a kick or something, so its easier to find what mob already had caustic on it to go back to

[cosmic kraken]

Yeah, I like that. I got room for a focus target macro on my bar. May drop that in there for just that reasoning.

[mint urchin]

Envenom and KB just applies caustic now, so you have 100% uptime on it as long as you just use your stuff. If you have a hard time finding your priority target again I would just use focus macros if you aren't using it for kicks already

[hazy sundial]

Is it over?

[balmy condor]

It what over

[cunning needle]

its so jover

[quaint nimbus]

It never began

[haughty flicker]

its never been more over than it is now

i guess

[severe meadow]

Over, is it?

[hexed frost]

https://tenor.com/view/ba-dum-tsss-drum-band-gif-7320811

[cunning needle]

[oak ember]

any way to filter poisons out of nameplates? Plater specifically

[balmy condor]

Uninstall plater

[oak ember]

I feared this day would come

[balmy condor]

Plater is a buggy nightmare that ignores the filtering

For god knows what reason

[oak ember]

But it looks so pretty

[balmy condor]

So does platynator

Or probably any other nameplate addon

[stuck lodge]

quick question - in the wowhead opener for aoe it says to imp garrote twice then rupture, but when I do that I'm only at 4 cp - is that okay? or am I missing something to put me to the 5 breakpoint that seems to be the norm

[balmy condor]

It’s supposed to be 6 but shrouded suffocation broke

For… reasons

[haughty flicker]

[balmy condor]

But who knows, maybe it’ll un-bug on Tuesday

[stuck lodge]

so should I throw in like a FoK in the meanwhile?

[balmy condor]

Yeh

[storm forum]

today i ended my break and enjoyed hitting a dummy for 30 minutes after fiddling with my UI, how cooked are we?

[crystal vault]

Even Gordon Ramsay can’t help us

[rotund oak]

gordon ramsay would prefer a typical banana curry swedish pizza than us at this point

[rotund oak]

me love you

[rotund oak]

[kindred cipher]

why did they mess with bleed spread in keys? current iteration feels so bad to play. all they had to do way get rid of the garrote bonus, and they didnt even do that...

[buoyant herald]

I’m not sure I’ve seen someone think it’s worse now

Kudos

[haughty flicker]

ive seen a couple

[kindred cipher]

it was fine before. press garrote a few times, rupture twice, some more garrotes, then switch to poison spam rotation and win. the only issue was stealth, which is still an issue...

why is fok a thing now? CT should just replace it

my only hope is that blizzard just makes this spec so bad that even outlaw will be better in keys

[misty holly]

I really liked bleed spread, played bleed spec all expansion because I liked it more than envenom spec

[hallow glade]

“It was fine before” - “the only issue was stealth”
that was the main mechanic of spreading bleeds though???

[misty holly]

so I def feeling a bit dubious about being forced into envenom focus now

[haughty flicker]

Bleed build was just envenom spec in disguise

[kindred cipher]

you still need stealth to spread a 30% stronger garrote. and now we cant even take a 2nd charge of vanish

you think tanks are gonna slow down?

[hallow glade]

Except that you won’t need to delay deathmark without stealth now

That was the main issue with not having stealth before

[kindred cipher]

how many other specs need to give up damage because the tank is pulling faster and bigger? apart from reg cd timings

not bigger, theres plenty of capped specs

[haughty flicker]

What about the new bleed spreading is worse than the old version to you though

[kindred cipher]

faster tho

[haughty flicker]

Imp gar exists for both versions

[hallow glade]

Assa benefits so much from chaining

Especially this version of it

Losing garrote dam isn’t gonna be a huge deal

[proven jasper]

All roads lead back to envenom

[kindred cipher]

30% on your 2nd damaging ability? granted im refering to prepatch, in case there is confusion

[mint urchin]

Its not really 30% in overall tho

[hallow glade]

Obviously it’s a gain but it’s not a huge issue

[kindred cipher]

having to weave in envenoms and slowing the process down in big pulls. before the 12 secs gave plenty of time to get your garrotes and 2 rups up in the window

[mint urchin]

Outside of stealth opening you only get 1 imp garrotte every 2m

[haughty flicker]

The process is faster now though, one global is spreading 2 ruptures and 2 garrotes

[mint urchin]

CT does big dam on its own, its not slowing down the process

[haughty flicker]

Instead of two globals to do the same

[hallow glade]

Also like chaining was way worse with the last version

If you deathmark a prio mob and the tank pulls in 3 extra mobs what do you do

As old assa

Now you can just ct

[kindred cipher]

thats a diff convo. im talking about bleed spread, not dm

[haughty flicker]

Also any fight with constant add spawns

CT clears easy

[hallow glade]

You cannot separate that lol

[mint urchin]

The only time this is even a question is if its super high target count

[hallow glade]

Being able to spread bleeds is useful for deathmark

[mint urchin]

if its like 5 target its basically no different

[quartz cloak]

Actually you guys make sound CT being fun, dont make me to excited

[kindred cipher]

you could always spread bleeds off your dm, just in a more limited capacity. im not saying the old way way perfect. im saying the opener of spreading bleeds in keys was better. they could have easily improved upon it

[mint urchin]

Also its not really comparable as before you only cared about 5 rupture targets and now we want to do it to every target

[balmy condor]

The old way of spreading was better

[hallow glade]

So if you are going to DM a boss and tank pulls in mobs

[balmy condor]

Nahhhhhhh

[haughty flicker]

Run away

[hallow glade]

You could absolutely not spread easily without vanish

It was a huge pain and made sin worse than arcane for prio on many bosses

[haughty flicker]

[mint urchin]

You didnt like staying in stealth the entire time hoping the tank was done as not to waste your IC duration!?

[kindred cipher]

sleath issue. not how you spread it. yes, they were linked, but it didnt have to be is my point

[hallow glade]

OK BUT

[haughty flicker]

True, they could've made ic its own cd

[hallow glade]

STEALTH WAS THE MECHANIC

[haughty flicker]

Maybe with like a 45s cd

Or something similar

[mint urchin]

I would rather have CT then some cursed rogue cataclysm

[haughty flicker]

[hallow glade]

You’re saying the old system was easier, the old system was stealth????

[kindred cipher]

look at other dot classes. how many hoops do they have to jump thru to spread their shit? they get like 8 target 30 sec cds spreads

[hallow glade]

They also don’t get scent of blood

[haughty flicker]

What hoop are we jumping through

[balmy condor]

So we’re just going to pretend like we weren’t bitching about chain pulls or bitching about restealths or bitching about having to sit in stealth cause you only got your carnage window and starting to spread early wasted your window while you waited to group, and having to spread garrotes and ruptures and have them be on separate timers and only spreading 2 at a time anyway because you were hitting the deathstalker target

[haughty flicker]

We spread dots better than half the dot specs

[balmy condor]

And now we spread both and everything lines up

And that’s shit

[haughty flicker]

Balance and aff both just have 2 targets at a time

[hallow glade]

Also, look at like feral

[kindred cipher]

managing energy, combo points, other spenders

[haughty flicker]

Spriest has a cd on its spreader

[hallow glade]

Their dot spread is a short duration version of their dot

[haughty flicker]

Like

[sonic zinc]

other spenders?

[haughty flicker]

CT is legit one of the best ways to spread

[balmy condor]

What other spenders

[haughty flicker]

That exists

[kindred cipher]

envenom?

[mint urchin]

Spriest has it on spreader because their dots are literally just there to feed mastery

[sonic zinc]

the one spender

[mint urchin]

and link

[balmy condor]

Okay, envenom and….

The other spender?

[haughty flicker]

Well

[kindred cipher]

rupture

[balmy condor]

But you applied rupture already

[haughty flicker]

Pain does a fuck ton of damage atm, to the point where you dont even play the talent that lets you spread it

So another w for assa there

[balmy condor]

You open on a target, bleed bleed boom

Ct spread

Now what

[mint urchin]

What if... just hear me out, you could spend 6+ CP for a big aoe bleed dot?

[balmy condor]

What is the hoop

[kindred cipher]

do rogue dots not feed our economy?

[misty holly]

We're rogues. This is thematic - and no I'm not being sarcastic here, that stuff matters if you wan't classes to feel different and have a "fantasy" to them.

[balmy condor]

They do

Not nearly as much as they used to

It’s like a 70% nerf

[mint urchin]

Because stealth is awful to play around

[balmy condor]

But yeah

[haughty flicker]

I actually can't think of a dot class with a better way to spread dots than ct

[balmy condor]

Actually I guess 80%? Idk

[lethal arrow]

What if you press a button that makes them bleed out faster

[hallow glade]

What if it was aoe

[lethal arrow]

Yeah

[hallow glade]

Did they have that before

[haughty flicker]

You might be on to something

[balmy condor]

I’m just stuck on how this is worse

When before you had to actually juggle rupture and envenom

And you had to fit everything into a window

[hallow glade]

It’s weird for DS imo

[balmy condor]

And you spread slower than you do now

[lethal arrow]

What if it cost 25 energy

[hallow glade]

Since you mark some random shitter if you don’t wait for prio mob to get pulled

[lethal arrow]

We could call it exsanguinate or something cool

[haughty flicker]

That would happen with the old spreading too though

[hallow glade]

I like this

[haughty flicker]

It's just cringe bc of the mark change

[kindred cipher]

so sin rogues get slow dot spread, multiple builders and spenders, stealth mechanics that tanks hate, bugs, mid damage for more effort. am i missing anything?

[balmy condor]

Yeah but that’s also just better

[mint urchin]

mark is just cringe

[sonic zinc]

u rite, sin has bugs, no one else does

[haughty flicker]

I still dont get why you think its slow

Legit the only spec in the game that can spread all its dots faster would be an spriest using both charges of tentacle slam, and that would only be if they were running misery

Which they dont

[balmy condor]

Well aside from the fact that it’s fast dot spread, less spenders than before, no need to target swap, stealth mechanics that are not worth playing around and tanks don’t really think about and have no reason to think about, about as many bugs as any other spec, and we do pretty good damage for low effort, yeah you’re spot on

[haughty flicker]

They have to manually spread pain

[mint urchin]

not running misery is miserable

[balmy condor]

There is ONE stealth talent that grants damage

[kindred cipher]

idk, it feels worse cuz im not used to it and was mostly trying sub

[balmy condor]

A SINGLE talent

And it’s worth around 3%

Compared to not having it at all

[haughty flicker]

Its better with apex talents at least

Because they get more extensions

But the ramp up time is very long

[mint urchin]

I am sad they gutted spirits and insanity gen

but I just love the ghosties

[kindred cipher]

then explain one thing. why does sin have fok and ct?

[mint urchin]

Because FoK is cheaper energy

one is energy efficient, one is dot spread

[balmy condor]

Because the intention is that you choose to either spread bleeds and get the benefits of dot spreading, or you choose something that does more damage

[kindred cipher]

how many other specs have to make that trade? to spread their class buff vs their damage?

[sonic zinc]

sin has 2 of everything
2 single target builders
2 spenders
2 aoe builders

[haughty flicker]

Literally all of them

[sonic zinc]

2 cooldowns

[haughty flicker]

Quite literally every single one

[sonic zinc]

and its all poison vs bleed

[balmy condor]

And the payoff between those two is quite literally the only thing interesting left

[haughty flicker]

If youre pressing agony or moonfire or pain you aren't pressing isntant damage buttons

[mint urchin]

How is it a trade between dmg? Both do dmg, one lets you do more envenom one spreads bleed

[balmy condor]

Except it’s not even interesting because they messed up the tuning

[sonic zinc]

mut is poison
garrote is bleed

fok applies poison
ct spreads bleed
Death mark is bleed
kingsbane is poison

envenom is poison
rupture is bleed

[kindred cipher]

what? pallys have to press their 3% dr every so often?

[hallow glade]

Whispyr what would you add to assa and you CANT say aoe exsang??

[haughty flicker]

We're talking about dots man

And spreading dots

What does pally have to do with anything

They aren't a dot class, of course they work differently

[balmy condor]

Doesn’t pally have more buttons as well

[kindred cipher]

ct doesnt apply offhand poison. tho im just reading it off tooltips

[balmy condor]

And also multiple generators

[balmy condor]

What

[mint urchin]

??? off hand poison?

[balmy condor]

Of course it does lmao what is an offhand poison

All poisons are applied at regular chance

[sonic zinc]

doesnt fok have a talent for better poisons pread

[kindred cipher]

ahh ok good to know

[balmy condor]

It’s guaranteed on crit with thrown precision yes

But that doesn’t mean CT just… doesn’t apply poisons

Every hit you deal has a chance to apply your poisons

[kindred cipher]

fok says it in the tooltip specifically. so do other abilities. ct doesnt

[balmy condor]

Its flavor text

[haughty flicker]

He fell for the classic blunder

[sonic zinc]

tooltips have rarely been 100% accurate

[haughty flicker]

Of believing blizzard tooltips

[sonic zinc]

to the tee

[haughty flicker]

Its fair though to get confused by that

You'd expect tooltips to actually tell you stuff

[sonic zinc]

i wish

[kindred cipher]

yes, this is on me, not blizzards bad tooltips lol

[sonic zinc]

how dare u not know blizzard tooltips are bad

[kindred cipher]

oh i did, i just dont know every situation of bad

also, i just came in here saying i didnt like how bleed were spread now. you guys are nutty with how you defend mid class design, is all im gonna say

[balmy condor]

I don’t even like CT all that much

Your points just don’t make sense

[haughty flicker]

The spec is far from perfect

I just dont agree that ct is one of the issues

[balmy condor]

Like you don’t like how bleeds are spread, that’s fun

I don’t either

But you tried to justify your position by just straight up saying misinformation about how it’s slower and more cumbersome and the ramp is worse than other specs

Which is verifiably false

That’s why you got dunked

Not because you had a brave opinion about not liking someone

[kindred cipher]

is it faster ignoring using the spender on envenom tho?

[sonic zinc]

i honestly prefer fellowships version of dot rogue build

[balmy condor]

It’s faster even with envenoming

[sonic zinc]

but theres a whole thing with that that lets it exist the way ti does that wow wont ever get to

[mint urchin]

The CT only ignore envenom is degenerate, but its far from the worst offenders right now

[balmy condor]

CT is just straight up spreading 2x as many bleeds as carnage did in the same gcd

[mint urchin]

I can think of like 4+ examples of worse stuff on other classes

[balmy condor]

It’s not even good really

It’s so giga pad

[haughty flicker]

does arms take its apex talents yet

[kindred cipher]

how? garotte would spread it to two targets as well, in the stealth window. yeah, you def spread rup faster, but rup was capped before, so it didnt matter as much anyway

[haughty flicker]

[balmy condor]

In a meta where everyone is clamoring at the bit for prio

[mint urchin]

I just meant from a conceptual standpoint, but yee I agree, They use AA as the "example" of it and yeah its just pad because people want big number

[haughty flicker]

i do like bigger number

[kindred cipher]

im just sayin, a spec that has weird talent interactions and can easily chose to ignore spenders is not a blizz design goal. you guys are defending a spec and play style that has been forgotten at the moment

[balmy condor]

Before you would have to garrote/rupture individually right? And you couldn’t swap off your marked target regardless

Now you press your generator, essentially what used to be garrote, and you spread the same amount of garrotes but you also spread the ruptures for free without spending the combo points. It’s equivalent in the old system to essentially casting a 5cp garrote and also a casting a rupture, except that it doesn’t consume the combo points, and you get to immediately spend that on an envenom which spatters without a mutilate

You’re getting straight up a free envenom

In the same time frame

Identical bleed spread, but no CT finisher to maintain

And then a free envenom

And no shiv either

So you saved the CT finisher cast, the shiv cast, and got a free envenom

Like

That’s ridiculously quicker

[kindred cipher]

no? you could spread it off your main target. it wasnt as efficient from what i remember, but again, thats just a tweak, not a broken way to spread

[haughty flicker]

i mean that just makes ct even faster compared to the old way if you were doing that

[balmy condor]

Sure, you could’ve played wrong

That’s fine

[haughty flicker]

like i agree that the envenom thing in large aoe is an issue, but its not a fundamental problem with the way ct works

its just a tuning issue

and its also likely not even as big of an issue as its made out to be

[kindred cipher]

id have no issue with ct if it replaced fok. blizzards goal with every class has been to get rid of redundancy. this is a very obvious redundancy

[blazing totem]

same tbh, fok and ct feel so extremely similar

[kindred cipher]

its a playstyle change, thats fine

[mint urchin]

Fire mage went through a period where you literally didnt hit pyroblast, frost mage was ignoring ice lance + shatter, survival hunter is ignoring bomb in ST... tuning isnt done yet a lot of specs have "quirks"

[blazing totem]

yeah you press one to spread your bleeds but fundamentally why am I pressing FoK v2

and not just FoK v1

[haughty flicker]

i mean i dont feel strongly one way or another about fok and ct being seperate buttons or the same

[kindred cipher]

this isnt tuning. this is a spec redesign. they already did the redesign...

[haughty flicker]

so yeah i wont really argue there, either way im fine with it

[blazing totem]

I get why they did it the way they did but he is absolutely right it feels redundant

[mint urchin]

It is a tuning thing, if envenom is higher you spend envenom instead of spam CT

The issue is CT > Envenom is just tuning

[blazing totem]

all this talk about tuning, they could have just tuned FoK to deal less dmg / more energy / whatever but spread the bleeds for you

[kindred cipher]

i meant fok vs ct

[sonic zinc]

just wait, theres gonna be a fight where u dont want to apply ur bleeds to secondary targets for whatever reason, but u DO still want to damage them 😛

[mint urchin]

That is also tuning

if FoK hits harder you only use CT for spread

and at target count FoK would overtake it

[blazing totem]

in that case they could have easily done this instead

make it a node on the left side where thrown rpecision is

[mint urchin]

The design is "fok is cheaper to build CP and CT is more expensive and spreads bleeds"

[blazing totem]

you take it, your FoK bleeds

but is moe expensive

[mint urchin]

Thats a fine design

[blazing totem]

you dont want that? dont take the node

[kindred cipher]

until youre hitting 15 targets where weaving one or two fok is asinine when you have to spread again soon after

[sonic zinc]

great stealing more shit from outlaw rogue

[blazing totem]

you act as if the specs are not stealign stuff continualyl from one another

[mint urchin]

Again that is tuning, if spatter + envenom hit harder you would only spread to 5 rupture for max scent

[sonic zinc]

how dare rogues steal from eachother!

[blazing totem]

also kinda wild to call a choice node stealing

[sonic zinc]

thats uncalled for!

[blazing totem]

so many choice nodes in the game

why does everyone steal from Outlaw?

[sonic zinc]

its not a choice if u have to take it !

[kindred cipher]

also, the only reason to even have fok is cuz energy regen is ass

[blazing totem]

that is crazy tbh

[mint urchin]

I dunno I feel like you are just disconnected with Assa rogue. Energy management is literally the entire concept of the class

[kindred cipher]

theres even a build that does well on energy regen and you end up spamming ct regardless. any other spec would have fok replaced, js

[mint urchin]

Having a builder that is less energy is the core of its very identity and a gcd choice

[kindred cipher]

sin has plenty of core to it without a extra spender

the blled/poison dichotomy should be tho focus

[blazing totem]

I always considered sin identity to be poisons/bleeds

[mint urchin]

poisons are entirely passive

there is no interaction with poison

they just exist

[kindred cipher]

then add one? instead of a pointless spender?

[sonic zinc]

idk this whole fok vs ct thing is kinda whatever

the real redundancy issue is snd still existing as a button

[kindred cipher]

builder*

[blazing totem]

who cares about snd if you dont press it anymore

[mint urchin]

outlaw does actually press snd as a button

[blazing totem]

in a niche situation where you start aoe pull

[mint urchin]

yee

[blazing totem]

that isnt even that big of a difference

if that makes someone mad... guess no cure for that

[mint urchin]

Its used every pull + start of key

very minor

but it is pressed

[blazing totem]

yes that was cheeks

if you dotn chain pull

[haughty flicker]

just dont play outlaw

[blazing totem]

why you gotta do them like that

[mint urchin]

Blizz did it first

[blazing totem]

real

[sonic zinc]

first they remove combat
then they take away dreadblades
then they give everyone and their mom better and free blade flurry

wtf

[blazing totem]

while also nerfing the Outlaw flurry

[sonic zinc]

next thing u know they will actually just make outlaw into the tank spec

[blazing totem]

they been so stingy with BF for ages

while we have classes that just get cleave for free

[waxen oyster]

Fuck combat

[haughty flicker]

we can only hope

[waxen oyster]

who wants to press sinister strike into evis

forever

[blazing totem]

ngl I really enjoyed tank rogue in SoD

[mint urchin]

sub does

[waxen oyster]

[sonic zinc]

im waiting for tank spec bel, ive been forced to tank in my raid bc no one else can or has experience to

once rogue gets it im perma rogue tank

[waxen oyster]

if rogue is boring im just quitting

[blazing totem]

same tbh

[sonic zinc]

regardless of tuning and meta

[waxen oyster]

or playing voidboye

[blazing totem]

I would also kill for support-type rogue spec (healer)

Apothecary that throws potions/concoctions

assaults enemies with posions to debuff

[sonic zinc]

i dont want that, keep healers away so i dont ever get asked to heal

[blazing totem]

BLizz pls

[waxen oyster]

thats called aug

[blazing totem]

yeah

we need more aug classes

to actually make aug make sense

[waxen oyster]

theres only one fun part about lizard

rescuing people off cliffs

[sonic zinc]

rogue support spec poisons ur allies with good poisons 🙂

that make them stronger

like bane

[haughty flicker]

the rogue in the housing cinematic had a green flask

[blazing totem]

or Silco from Arcane

Shimmer

[haughty flicker]

green=good

[blazing totem]

[sonic zinc]

yuh

[haughty flicker]

=healing

therefore rogue healer