assassination

[balmy condor]

Life when I don’t have to keybind five dozen macros that just target different people

[lethal arrow]

[cunning needle]

[balmy condor]

https://tenor.com/view/mundo-feliz-onetreehsll-world-if-gif-14071235670792471304

[lethal arrow]

but also life riding my silly mount for being one of 6 ppl that did pvp

i had 1 person message me saying sick mount and it was all worth it

[balmy condor]

does aotc not give anymore

[cunning needle]

Aotc is week 3

M+ is w2

[balmy condor]

cause staggered release

Holy cringe

[cunning needle]

Blizzards grand plan

[balmy condor]

Guess I’m waiting for week 2 then

Probably fine

[lethal arrow]

aotoc is not possible until luura is killable

sadly

[cunning needle]

Yeah not much pont anyway till w2 or w3

[lethal arrow]

so you do have to PVP for catalyst charges week 1

LOL

CR injection into the ladder

[balmy condor]

Yeah I’d rather piss in my mouth thanks

[lethal arrow]

thankfully its only 1600?

which is basically like 1 hr of playing

[balmy condor]

Oh 1600 isn’t bad

I would’ve thought it was like 2000

[cunning needle]

I wonder if the pvp trinket will also be good

[lethal arrow]

at WORST it might be 1800?

[balmy condor]

1800 I probably don’t do it

[lethal arrow]

yeah according to google its 1600

chill little 3s sesh

[balmy condor]

1600 with a guildie I MIGHT be convinced

[lethal arrow]

or solo shuffle if u hate yourself

[minor pendant]

i hate myself

[cunning needle]

Last i checked it was 1.6k

[balmy condor]

Realest shit I’ve ever seen

[minor pendant]

if the german trains would be on point i would jump

[cunning needle]

This is rogue discord. We all hate ourselves

[lethal arrow]

solo shuffle technically faster but youd then have to subject yourself to all the other casual carls who have never touched pvp

or wow

or a keyboard

[hasty dune]

if u cant crush those casuals, your the casual

[balmy condor]

What’s the difference to regular pugs

Isn’t that just how any random plays

[lethal arrow]

yeah but then theyre on your team

[minor pendant]

does it have to be on arena ?

[lethal arrow]

ill prob just speedrun it with my boys

[minor pendant]

isnt it rbgs too ?

[lethal arrow]

i think its 1600 any bracket

[cunning needle]

Can rbg

[lethal arrow]

so u could also do bg blitz

LOL

[minor pendant]

LOL nvm

[lethal arrow]

i will just slam 3s

rogue 1800 set so ugly, i wont even feel tempted to get it week 1

[golden loom]

im actually so hyped for thursday

hit 70 on tbc 10 days ago and have 5 days played at 70 and all it has done is make me more for midnight

[pliant remnant]

all it's done is make you more for midnight

[wet river]

english is hard

[long hawk]

https://tenor.com/view/hxh-kurapika-menace-gif-4446499897396832363

[solar wyvern]

Ye its fatebound so spatter smacks harder, and i played avulsion to be quirky

[spring moat]

any good plater profiles? mines broken 🙁

[stuck lodge]

Aren't all addons being killed in midnight? I'm trying to get used to default UI (I am not McLoving it)

[balmy condor]

No

Just the ones that read combatlog data basically

So things like plater still exist (it’s shit, use platynator instead)

[spring moat]

have you made a profile yet whispyr? i used yours for tww

[balmy condor]

I have but I’m not home rn and I’m still not convinced about needing a nameplate addon

[stuck lodge]

Rumors of addon's demise were greatly overstated

[balmy condor]

It’s basically just weakauras that died

Elvui is still around too

[dusty crag]

Now we have to play the game

[balmy condor]

At least hekili died, that’s the single good thing about all of this mess

The addon not the dude

[stuck lodge]

Question on vanish usage. I see I should be using it as a DPS cooldown to refresh imp g, but wouldn't that timing (after the opening) leave vanish out of sync by 30 seconds for the next deathmark window?

[balmy condor]

That would be fucked

[balmy condor]

Correct

[stuck lodge]

so like... do I prio pushing deathmark back 30 seconds to wait or?

[balmy condor]

Probably not

[stuck lodge]

Don't say its a judgment call, my brain is too small

[balmy condor]

Depends on your kill time

[spice surge]

If you want the non-brain approach, just dont vanish unless its with deathmark

But yes it generally depends on killtime if you want to opt it

[stuck lodge]

so after the opening just wait on vanish for the deathmark basically

[balmy condor]

But like realistically, your deathmark window is half the length of a garrote, doubling its damage, and improved garrote is 50%

They’re functionally equal opportunities

So what ends up happening is you holding that vanish for deathmark ends up losing you a cast

And ends up equal

we love vanish

But yeah generally if you’re going to get another deathmark, just sync it up and don’t cast in opener

Hard sell given how fast bosses die right now

But yah know

[stuck lodge]

Well opener is from stealth, so you mean don't use it after the first IG expires rihgt

right?*

[balmy condor]

Yes

[stuck lodge]

cool

Make it 1.5 min cd, fix this blizzard

[balmy condor]

That would actually make it far worse

[spice surge]

Its been like this for atleast a decade

[stuck lodge]

how would a shorter cooldown on vanish make it worse?

[balmy condor]

Well then you would be incentivized to cast it on cd

Cause you would be wasting even more time between deathmarks

So then you’re naturally lining it up for 2:00 sure

But you desync it from everything after that

Or you just run into the same situation and have to hold

[stuck lodge]

I also assume that when you vanish to reapply it midfight you also want to do the opener thing of recasting it at the end of the IG window

[balmy condor]

Yes

Well, probably

But yeah

[stuck lodge]

So basically its 1. always hold DM for kings bane 2. Try to use vanish with DM (if you can)

[balmy condor]

Yes

[stuck lodge]

I definitely need something to help with tracking rupture and garrote on mobs, the default UI is tiny and my eyes are bad

[balmy condor]

Cooldown manager

Can make the icons huge by default if you need

[stuck lodge]

In the default? I'll play around with it

[balmy condor]

Yeah

Default nameplates also get pretty big

But you don’t really care about tracking them on nameplates anymore

Just as long as you can tell that they exist

[stuck lodge]

And seeing the duration so I know when I need to reapply, but yeah

thanks!

[balmy condor]

Well you only really care about that on your main target that you’re hitting

So you can use the cooldown manager for that

The timer is of no relevance on the other targets in aoe

[quaint shadow]

if i have kingsbane ready and a 30 seconds cd on deathmark, should i hold kingsbane ?

[real pike]

Swear KB and DM should never be desynced any more? Now no more tier set?

[static glacier]

Only case would be downtime

[real pike]

Oh yeah fair

[real pike]

Boring answer is depends on your kill time

One more KB > KB with DM > KB without DM

I think

[gritty laurel]

Yeah, a bad KB beats no KB in every scenario

[quaint shadow]

should i ever deathmark without kingsbane

[real pike]

Not unless the boss is dying before KB comes up

[quaint shadow]

thx

[balmy condor]

What if I’m the one dying before kb comes up

[stiff fern]

Dps loss

[balmy condor]

Shit

Can’t have that

[real pike]

Then you don't DM or KB

You use your irl GCDs to flame the healers

[balmy condor]

Assa rogue player with outlaw rogue APM when I die

[stuck lodge]

This guy has a whole ass video on this topic and didn't even plug it here. SMH

[real pike]

Why would I watch a video when I can just copy an import string and then complain about it on here

[royal lantern]

RH has a no self advertisement rule

[real pike]

Just had a proper boomer moment realising this is probably no longer a well known reference

[balmy condor]

No shilling here

[jovial idol]

https://youtu.be/v7g8zUPBk9M

Check out the assa in M+ tier

[real pike]

Raid or m+?

[stuck lodge]

They said M+

[subtle tundra]

whos shinding

[jovial idol]

I have no idea

I would have guessed the top rogue player

Since he's the one that got interviewed

[subtle tundra]

yeah it dont work like that

[lean plover]

a very good rogue

i dont think hes the #1 tho

[solar wyvern]

I think assa needs a bump in ST and its in a good spot idk

Gameplay loop is fine outside of ct shenanigans

Does fairly good prio on fatebound, insane prio in ds

The more criminal spot is sub in b tier

[hallow glade]

dont say it should be higher

i dont think any rogue spec deserves to be above 'b' unless its like laughably overtuned

[little ginkgo]

okay if that dude is not completly not wrong i will literally not play midnight,we got 1 decent expac

[rose narwhal]

I wouldn't overly doom just yet, tuning is all up in the air until mythic week patch, the gameplay stuff though...

[little ginkgo]

i rlly dont have an issue with ct bleed spreading

but if it is as i have heard that energy is a massive problem while our dmg not being that good

[solar wyvern]

Energy sucks on DS

Fatebound is essentially 60 apm

Only time u arent doing a global is when u intentionally drop envenom

[little ginkgo]

also alot of the classes at a or high b are really not calling my name

why would we even want to play ds tho with us already havving issues on target swapping

[rose narwhal]

tier lists are really not serious, i remember when dratnos put sub in shit tier for m+ one season and it was one of the best specs, I really would not put any worth on them

[solar wyvern]

Its really not that bad, tww just happened to have one of the best iterations of sub ever

[sick edge]

I hadn't actually realised how bad rogue is in midnight right now. If this is actually true, I sure hope it gets tuned appropriately. (this comment was based on the video linked above)

[cunning needle]

dratnos has some really shit takes that gain a lot of traction

i remember his w1 spires of ascension routes back in SL

which were absolute and utter garbage

wait not spires, necrotic wake

[rose narwhal]

ye i never looked at his content since that tier list, he obv had no idea what he was talking about if he did 5 mins research he would have seen sub was strong, put me off

[cunning needle]

most content creators don't know shit outside whatever their niche is

casters will still talk about sub rogue funnel

like its a thing that only sub rogue has/does really well

despite it being taken out to the back of teh shed and shot twice

[balmy condor]

Got it, putting it in midnight UI tier

[little ginkgo]

at tis point i dont even know if this is just a ragebait or no

[sick edge]

Hey Whispyr. What's your view? Was Shinding right on his takes?

[balmy condor]

My view is that basically whatever he said, I feel the opposite

I didn’t watch it at all because I don’t consume that slop content

But from what I’ve been told

He kinda just doesn’t like assa, which is fine

But some of his arguments make little sense to me

[severe meadow]

Midnight UI tier

[sick edge]

He doesn't like that we just spam our generator when at full combos in aoe situations, is what I understood. I have no idea if he's right or wrong on saying this, but assuming he is right, it does feel a bit weird. Other than that though, gameplay wise the little I've played sin rogue in midnight, it felt good. I just hope they get the tuning done right.

[stuck lodge]

Is that true? All the guides I have read say use envenom at 5+

[severe meadow]

You CT until everything has bleeds

And then you can go into envenom

With FOK

[rose narwhal]

most guides are outdated, i'd wait until they're updated for release to read them

[stuck lodge]

Right, so there is maybe like a small window where you are capped and still hitting CT, but after that you are spending

but yeah, subject to change I guess

[severe meadow]

yeah I believe if you’re capping on energy you’d want to CT

[balmy condor]

That’s a side-effect of caustic’s nerf and probably won’t survive to be fair

Like if they nerf CT next week, that’s gone

[severe meadow]

Another FOK buff surely

[balmy condor]

On deathstalker the last fok buff was enough

But it’s legit just CT doing too much

Nerf it and gg

[rose narwhal]

I agree with his point on Avulsion which buffs rupture requiring you to take Amp poison feels bad if you're trying to go bleed heavy and DTB isn't taken

[sick edge]

I thought his take was that your bleeds do so much more dmg than anything else, that you just need to spam CT until you get bleeds on all targets, not that CT was doing too much dmg.

[stuck lodge]

This is temporally really funny because I am watching your 4 hour assassination video and the first person you shout out as helpful is Shindigg

[balmy condor]

I love shindigg for what it’s worth

That’s the homie

He is a genuinely great guy, super nice

Very informed

I just disagree with what he said on Max’s stream

[sick edge]

fair

[balmy condor]

Yes and no

Pressing CT spreading bleeds and dealing damage right

It’s a combo

So bleeds can do that much damage

If CT doesn’t

But right now, bleeds do damage AND ct also hits like a freight train

And both things cannot be true

[crude helm]

I still think they need to buff the amount of targets CT spreads too, even if it’s just an additional thing on Sudden Demise or something

[sick edge]

CT is 60 energy though not kind on those thistle teas

[balmy condor]

The thing about doing this is like, as CT spreads more bleeds, you need that “something else” in the rotation, which was the problem pre-caustic

[little ginkgo]

so are we rn at the situation that we even generate our combopoints for the first rupture with ct or just fok?

[balmy condor]

Pre-caustic we had a button that just made next garrote and rupture apply to 8 targets

And you basically did like 4 gcds, pressed cds

And then had nothing

Just sat there and went “okay I’m done now”

So like in a world where CT spreads more, you weirdly enough also need to buff caustic or else it’ll feel like shit

[crisp pine]

oh wait are we back to just spamming CT in AoE like the good old days?

[balmy condor]

Not quite

[crude helm]

I mean ideally they just buff caustic to a point where it’s worth finishing in big aoe

[glad holly]

Im assuming they have to be careful buffing caustic too much, because of how much it scales with our ST damage though?

[rose narwhal]

idk that's for them to figure out, spamming generators at max cps is haram tho

[crude helm]

It’s 18% rn? Soft capped at 5

[mint urchin]

I mean sub has cases where it ignores CP as well, granted usually only to proc apex.

[crude helm]

Just make it work with singular focus again damnit

[rose narwhal]

I'll take CT spreading to 3 additional targets and them nerfing the base damage. They add damage on to spells like CT and blade flurry so they don't feel empty when you press them, but pressing them less is also good imo 👍

[mint urchin]

I don't feel like blade flurry fits in with it, but CT is just silly strong atm

[sick edge]

Do we have any info on the rogue tier set bonuses for midnight season 1? Are they confirmed and finished?

[mint urchin]

Yes they are on wowhead

[sick edge]

copilot says its TBA... Fucking AI

[mint urchin]

Probably in the pins as well

[sick edge]

Looked at the pins quickly, couldn't see it

[balmy condor]

The tier is generator damage

[frank trench]

the real question is how the heck do you delves at a 12 on rogue xD

[cunning needle]

You unlock it by doing a t11 delve

[mint urchin]

Ez, you just tricks all mob agro to your helper

[frank trench]

lol i never thought about that

do you make him a tank?

[mint urchin]

You can

Or heals

[frank trench]

ty dhaos 🙂

[lean plover]

Some delves you can just stealth your way

[mint urchin]

Also that

[lean plover]

Fungal folly for example

[tawdry marlin]

hi is assasin rogue garbage in pve to?

[night delta]

prepatch lvl 80 balance doesn't do it any favours

as for Midnight lvl 90 we just don't know yet, balance passes will 100% come in anyway

[somber sparrow]

Play whatever you find the most fun not the highest dps

[buoyant herald]

Assassination is always mid at worst unless it draws the shortest straw on tuning. It always does better than where sim lists would have you believe, just well set up for raiding at least

[stuck lodge]

Do we not envenom before kingsbane/DM? wouldn't the bonus to apply poison make a difference?

[real pike]

Where are you seeing otherwisw

[hazy sundial]

How doomed is Assa?

on 90?

for M+?

[stuck lodge]

Just feels like somewhere in the opener/rotation/cooldown sections it would be mentioned

Wowhead also doesn't call out envenom before KB/DM

maybe it just doesnt flow well enough

[fresh kelp]

idk if that's for prepatch but I believe with apex your sequence ends up being dm->kb->envenom, so you get it up fast enough

[stuck lodge]

Yeah its for prepatch, so no apex

Probably not super relevant given it has like 4 days left lol

[severe meadow]

Pre patch plays the same

But yeah apex gaming soon

[marble hemlock]

it doesnt

youd also lose out on the chance to cast another garrote from your initial stealth while its still empowered by imp garrote, if you tried to fit in an envenom there

ultimately, openers are kind of overrated in the grand scheme of things. a GCD or two swapped around makes virtually no difference in a 5+ minute fight

[stuck lodge]

or have to rebuild CP after rupture before beginning the DM/KB stuff

yeah, clunky

[marble hemlock]

(unless its something really egregious)

youre capping your KB stacks very quickly during DM regardless, so having envenom up for like 2 extra seconds isnt really a difference maker, vs getting a full pandemic imp garrote refreshed

[night delta]

How pertinent it will be, do you think, to purposefully dump energy as fast as possible early to get the thistle tea energy going ? And then doing so whenever we're about to cap on tea charges ?

[marble hemlock]

its w/e

you dont really have control over "dumping" your energy. you press buttons on GCD until you run out of energy

how would you "dump" energy?

[night delta]

i mean, isn't the point of our rotation now to pool on envenom uptime and clip as little of the buff as possible when we can (as long as we don't let energy overcap) ?

[marble hemlock]

thats always been the case

[night delta]

To manage our energy and not get dry spells

[marble hemlock]

you press buttons until you cant press buttons anymore

[night delta]

well then dumping energy would be ignoring that and just full sending without pooling, purposefully getting our energy low

[marble hemlock]

im confused by what you mean by "dumping"

[night delta]

punching env as soon as we get to 5+cp, ignoring the pooling idea

i was doing rotation on dummies earlier and i definitely felt some difference between just punching it, and delaying envs to not clip the buff

at least not clip it by much

[marble hemlock]

pooling has always been a bit of a meme. its more of a thing now than it was before, but its still barely a noticeable gain if you do it perfectly.

the last time pooling mattered was in like legion

[night delta]

wierd, cuz when i tried just punching it, I definitely felt that some times I backed myself into corners

loosing uptime on stuff because I went dry

[marble hemlock]

assa has this fundamental issue of having such high envenom uptime, that pooling for perfect envenom clipping is kind of w/e. the apex talent shifts that towards pooling having slightly higher value a little bit, but not in a massive way

[night delta]

whereas managing env uptime by clipping as little as possible that wasn't hapenning

[marble hemlock]

well, i dont doubt that you felt it have an impact. but thats the problem with a lot of discussions on these matters. just because something feels bnetter, or more logical, or improves gameplay flow to some extent, doesnt necessarily mean it actually is better.

now, that being said, based on the recent messages by whispyr on the matter as well, you definitely do wanna try and pool like we always have, but its not gonna magically gonna let you outdps someone by 10% who doesnt pay that kind of attention.

[night delta]

alright

[marble hemlock]

sooner or later youll run out of energy, and thistle tea or the apex talent energy gain will have you go back to having energy soon enough. and the actual gain is like a handful of percentage points of envenom uptime

which is already very high to begin with

[night delta]

I guess when bursting matters you wanna full send on GCD anyway

[marble hemlock]

pmuch

[spice surge]

Iirc the entire pooling thing was worth around 1.5%

[marble hemlock]

like, maybe thats just my point of view, but i dont look at the apex talent and see something i would want to play around, because the condition for it to happen requires you to do low damage to begin with (being low on energy)

[spice surge]

Which is certainly not 0, but its not a big shift in damage like 10% would be

[marble hemlock]

the apex talent is smth that covers a weakness, its not smth that becomes a new strength

[marble hemlock]

ye, its peanuts, really

[night delta]

I guess more energy budget doesn't translate that well into more overall damage it seems ?

[marble hemlock]

its not more energy budget, is the thing

not in any way that matters

the trigger condition is smth where you do low damage. so why would you try and "force" that condition?

[night delta]

i mean, to be exact the trigger condition is "i didn't enevnom in the last 6-7s after envenoming 5 times", I guess sure if you have the ability of just keeping a high rythm without needing to pool more energy is not that much more damage

[marble hemlock]

its like this dogwater artifact trait from legion, where if you didnt attack for 3 seconds, youd get a free vanish or smth

[night delta]

but I can definitely see how, in a scenario where pooling mattered more, it would be significant

I guess it comes down to how close or far we are to GCD-locked

[marble hemlock]

the issue is that the trigger condition is diametrically opposed to all the other talents we have that boost our damage in certain ways for chaining envenoms

why would you give that up on purpose

[spice surge]

One talent says "envenom while envenom is up" the other says "drop the envenom buff before you envenom"

[marble hemlock]

could you just let your envenom drop after you cast it 5x for max stacks? yeah. but why would you, when it means youre giving up a bunch of other talent bonuses.

thats why its a fallback, just like thistletea

[night delta]

now that you say it there's definitely dissonance here in the design

[marble hemlock]

our main rotation flow is to chain envenoms, and talents like the apex1, or thistle tea, exist to keep ous in that state longer, or more quickly

[spice surge]

The dissosance is that there is a cap on implacable

[marble hemlock]

[spice surge]

Otherwise you could just keep stacking by doing what all the other talents say

Until you cant, at which point you'd regen a lot

[marble hemlock]

youd still not play around it, ofc

the value of pooling would come from adding more talents, or buffing the existing ones, that want you to do certain things conditionally while envenom is up

[night delta]

well yes in that case you'd definitely not play around and just gamble how far you can stack it

[spice surge]

I also think the amount of energy regened "looks stronger" than it actually is, since its only over a 5 second window

[marble hemlock]

i.e. back in legion, we used to pool because we had toxic blade and wanted to get 3 envenoms into each toxic blade duration since our envenoms hit crazy hard with agonizing poison

and only getting 2 in was quite a big difference

[spice surge]

You read 80% and it sounds like a big number

[marble hemlock]

its just 80% of your passive regen, at the end of the day

[night delta]

ah it's not even procced energy ?

[marble hemlock]

and afaik its additive with vigor/MM as well

or does it apply to VW etc. as well? no clue actually

[spice surge]

Afaik its only passive regen and additive

[marble hemlock]

ye

[night delta]

now that you say it sounds about right

imagine proccing TT during +80%

[spice surge]

So with 0% haste youd go from 13 energy per second baseline to 21 for 5 seconds, which is 40 more energy

[night delta]

stonks

[marble hemlock]

thats not even a mutilate

[night delta]

yea

if they wanted to enfore the dropping after 5 stacks thing they could do it the other way around

have the talents that buff chaining stop after the 5th

would be very artificial of course, but that's do the trick

[marble hemlock]

one thing you gotta keep in mind when it comes to pooling, is that pooling is only ever really valuable, if a lot of your damage is on demand, and you want to fit more of something, into something else.

essentially the exact opposite of a sustained DPS spec that does a lot of its damage with auto attacks, dots, and poisons.

if you have a spec that bursts super high for 10 seconds every minute? well, thats where pooling would matter a lot more.

[night delta]

yea things like old shiv etc

solid logic and quite clear

[marble hemlock]

and pooling is also more important when you have very limited resources to begin with

but we have plenty of energy, most of the time.

[spice surge]

Sub has the high burst, but sub gets infinite energy during dance anyway so theres no reason to pool anyway

[marble hemlock]

[thorn thorn]

[night delta]

a bit different subject, I've been trying Fatebound Deal Fate + Poisoner's drive and damn

this felt completely different

most of the time I would cut one whole mut from every finisher

[spice surge]

Speccing tea is within margin on aoe for sub

[marble hemlock]

good

[spice surge]

Compared to having nothing

[marble hemlock]

fuck that button honestly

idk why it ever came back in the first place

or why its a capstone lmao

[spice surge]

Atleast supercharger is cool

[marble hemlock]

the cool buttons from SL we didnt get to keep, the boring ones we got back

nice

[night delta]

tying the minigame to a 1 minute button feels like a downgrade from the earlier reprimand

[rose narwhal]

So many talents making the spec have playable energy levels is kinda boring, eats up space for more interestingly designed choices :/

[night delta]

I like playing 3 buffed combo points as a minigame every 45s

2 every minute is just the same but lamer

[marble hemlock]

personally i think thats totally fine. the problem is that the "builder -> spender" system of rogue has been adopted for many other classes at this point, who just have more interesting or more nuanced versions of it

when the game launched 20+ years ago, rogue and feral were the only classes/specs that had it. nowadays over half the classes operate on the same system

[spice surge]

In theory you can choose things that increase your damage straightup instead of gaining more energy

But in practice that doesnt often happen

[marble hemlock]

paladin got it with holy power, DK with runes, then warlocks with shards, shamans with maelstrom, boomkins with lunar/solar power etc.

[night delta]

didn't feel the nuance when trying out afflock with malefic in previous expansions

gosh what a pain that was then

[spice surge]

🦀 Malefic gone 🦀

[night delta]

I like the idea of plate-spinning, the spec

why did they have to introduce that and break it all

[thorn thorn]

Rest in piss malefic

Will not be missed

[marble hemlock]

combo points are just boring, and theyre certainly boring after 20+ years

[night delta]

we need charged combo minigame as baseline

[marble hemlock]

anyway, bedge time

[night delta]

nice eepy time

[rose narwhal]

idk, I don't think there needs to be 8 mandatory points across 2 trees for energy. I like the choice node for Imp ambush and Tight spender because there's a choice there but the others could be combined a bit

[night delta]

You mean there's a choice ?

[rose narwhal]

[night delta]

I love saving 2 energy on a button

so impactful gosh

[rose narwhal]

2 of them being capstones as well... just meh

[marble hemlock]

i mean

rogue already sucks because so many of our lower-row class talents are DPS talents, when they really shouldnt be

just one man's opinion ofc

but i like a class tree like mage, where the vast majority of their row 8-10 class nodes, are just utility

[rose narwhal]

yeah that's how it should be

[marble hemlock]

and then opposite of that, you have a class like warrior

where a pretty sizable chunk of their DPS, comes from their row 8-10 class talents

[thorn thorn]

Tree design of all time

[night delta]

the effin diamond pattern

I just had a look darn that looks ugly

[marble hemlock]

i find it hard to imagine that they could ever cook up a class tree bottom row, where we dont pick deeper strategem on all specs, for example

[rose narwhal]

this is the issue when design philosophy for the trees isn't decided by a lead and instead individual devs

[night delta]

Imo there's a balance to strike

[thorn thorn]

Not all of the trees are bad

The rogue class tree is just stinky

[night delta]

having a singular vision would definitely help the whole feel more coherent

but would risk everything looking and feeling the same if it all came from the same inspiration

[rose narwhal]

Philosophy as in, row 1-7 should be utility only etc. Like from a high level, not too structured in actual design, otherwise as you said, a lot would be samey

[marble hemlock]

it becomes an issue whenever smth like a new expansion happens, and you get more talent points. if all your bottom row talents are just utility, no one really cares too much. if all of them are DPS gains, thats smth you suddenly have to worry about.

so you give people the same amount of points in the bottom rows as before, by increasing the talent gate. which then unduly punishes the classes who desperately "need" more points in the class tree to not feel like shit, while the lcasses who only have utility there are happy they get their funny toys back

wouldnt have to increase the talent gate for everyone, if all the talents there were just utility

[night delta]

Strange that they didn't try to just give some existing talents more ranks with diverging effects

[marble hemlock]

cuz +3 points for the weakest utility talents? who cares.

+3 points for the weakest DPS talents? matters quite a bit.

[night delta]

like, that's a thing nowhere as far as I know

I could see a world where they cut down on talent numbers, give them more ranks and have ranks work a bit like apex

as in, not just sclaing effect but different things that build up

[marble hemlock]

so one of the core issues there, is that for some specs all the big DPS talents are at the bottom of the class tree, which you couldnt all get because of limited talent points, so when you finally get more talent points, its a balancing or design nightmare because the class wasnt originally designed to have access to all of those things

while another spec just gets 3 more utility talents and is bingchilling, since it doesnt affect their rotational gameplay

[night delta]

yeah that's an issue when you want to build a strongly balanced game

[rose narwhal]

Just half some of the node's power and make them 2 pointers

[night delta]

and not just embrace imbalance as a state of things

[night delta]

I was more thinking of half the number of nodes, increase ranks and give novelty shit on higher ranks

or okay maybe not halve all nodes, but like 66.6% it

[chrome meadow]

no worry

me work blizzard

me make rogue bis before s1

sec teq go boom

oh wrong chat

[severe meadow]

https://tenor.com/view/where-is-bro-going-gif-5427850250053646433

[haughty flicker]

https://klipy.com/gifs/superman-darkseid

[lime onyx]

hey on beta is there a bug where improved garrote is not giving the extra combo points?

i press twice and end up w 3 or 4 CPs, even with the 6 sec out ofstealth talent

[lime onyx]

awesome thx just wanted to make sure i wasn't crazy

[worthy timber]

Is improved garrote bugged or am I not understanding how it works? Because when I follow the rotation of Garrote > Mut 5cp+ > rupture > DM > KB > garrote, the blizz cooldown manager isnt showing that the improved garrote gets refresh? So is the CDM bugged or is the ability bugged? Or ?

hope that makes sense

[marsh fjord]

Well, i'm not to sure about the tracking part but. If you garrote mut rupture DM KB - garrote you will overide it with a normal garrote so it would make sense that it doesnt show you.

Imp garrote is only 6

And your second garrote will not be in the 6 seconds

[worthy timber]

then the rotation infographic on wowhead needs to change right?

because in order to get another improved garrote, wed need to vanish garrote which we're not supposed to do now

because from how im understanding it, we reapply it straight after KB to refresh the improved garrote but youre saying thats not how it works

genuinly trying to make sense of it

[marsh fjord]

I just checked

[worthy timber]

cause i feel like im missing something

[marsh fjord]

And indeed wowhead is extending improve garrote in the opener. i can log my rogue in a second and test if i'm extending it like that

[worthy timber]

plz do because im curious

[marsh fjord]

Testing now will report in 2 minutes 🙂

Yeah im extending it

[worthy timber]

so then the blizz cdm is bugged

because it doesnt refresh it even if I do it immediately after my opener

[marsh fjord]

Yeah blizz is not showing you if it's improved or not.

Mine either.

It only shows improved

if you have the buff

[worthy timber]

but even the imrpoved self buff doesnt update to reflect

[marsh fjord]

when i have the buff

But when the buff is over and i can't apply improved anymore the garrote just turns to a normal garrote

[worthy timber]

so now my question to that is, do we still have to wait for the improved garrote to fall off before we reapply like we did in tww?

or will it just pandemic over?

[balmy condor]

the applied garrote doesn't show if its improved

[marsh fjord]

Yeah thought so

[balmy condor]

it only shows while you have the buff itself, the 6 second window

[balmy condor]

correct

[worthy timber]

so we do? ok

[marsh fjord]

You vanish when it runs out

To add other improve garrote

[worthy timber]

so we vanish later in the rotation now

now see icy-veins says this

the vanish part

[marsh fjord]

I never use icy veins.

I just stick to wowhead

so no idea there

[worthy timber]

it's also not listed in the rotation section on icy either

[marsh fjord]

The wowhead guide is more then enough. if you follow that your fine

[worthy timber]

ive been finding inconsistancies with icy for a little bit now between it and wowhead

[balmy condor]

it's the same info

I give seli all the tc notes

[marsh fjord]

Bruh/?

[wooden timber]

BHHAHAHA

[ember mural]

@balmy condor spam

[marsh fjord]

@balmy condor This allowed? lol

[balmy condor]

!ban @neat gust spam

that's crazy work

[cunning needle]

damn i missed it

[misty holly]

Blizzard actually did it. They saw how popular classic was 5 years ago and gave us all classic level rotations to try and get that magic in retail. This is going to be the best expansion ever.

[jovial idol]

Jokes aside classic influenced midnight

Simpler gameplay loops, several raids per tier, more focus on open world content

[misty holly]

Now they just need to bring back a rare "black lotus" style herb required for our flasks and we will be 100% of the way there.

[marsh fjord]

I think they just saw how many people jump from retail to classic and classic to retail and i think they are trying to invent a gameplay loop where both playerbases are statisfied

[buoyant herald]

I think they’re trying to create a loop where people get bored of retail and play classic and people get bored of classic and play retail and never touch another game in their lives

[jovial idol]

I never played classic and never will. Only when it was current content

[buoyant herald]

It’s a totally different game now, shouldn’t really be compared with retail

[jovial idol]

Not because it's bad but because the whole magic of classic for me was the exploration and know that everything is known feels pointless

[buoyant herald]

Solid take tbh

[jovial idol]

Playing something you already played is weird

[buoyant herald]

I haven’t played it since SoD

That was pretty fun. Old but new

[jolly stirrup]

The one time i dont check this discord while at work i miss fun stuff

[wooden timber]

ill play legion classic

[waxen oyster]

atp legion isn't "classic"

classic should have ended with cata

[wooden timber]

ok ill play whatever they call it

[waxen oyster]

yeah i just find it defeats the point

since mop onward is "modern" wow

[wild spruce]

@worthy timber @balmy condor Stupid question! Thought you want to vanish the second set of Garrote to make it another Improve Garrote for the opener??

[balmy condor]

depends on your killtime yeah

[blazing totem]

100%, there is nothing that feels "classic" to me

now it's just WoW 2.0

WoW rerun

the game is already being hit with the new system and cadence like retail so the only difference now is that you are X expansions behind

but playstyle is basically same, just more buttons

basically WoW private server lol

[hearty seal]

yea
tbh for this specific purpose, WoD being a shitshow might be good, as it means they'll likely drop progressing through the expacs

[worthy timber]

youll know wod classic is coming when you see leaked surveys asking about it

[jade abyss]

Was rogue good in WoD ? I was playing unholy dk at this time

And only thing i can remember on rogue was that socrethar trinket

[hearty seal]

from what I remember hearing, not really, but esp combat being kinda lame
but I have no personal experience there

[earnest remnant]

rogue was pretty good in WoD

[blazing totem]

idk how it was performance wise but feel of Rogue was pretty good in WoD

maybe unpopular opinion but WoD was quite good for all classes

WoD is just shit on cuz the content was severely lacking

[hexed frost]

Good morning gaymers are we removing caustic spatter yet

[blazing totem]

is the CT spam not enough for you

[hexed frost]

I don't want a dollar store version of blade flurry please

[blazing totem]

[worthy timber]

lol dollar store version of bf

[hazy helm]

I missed everything between retail mop and TWW, wouldn’t mind them doing all of them.

[hearty seal]

tbh I've missed everything between retail Cata (levelled but didn't raid in MoP) and TWW
and having gone through most of the content on offer in the last 18 months as well as hearing about the actual state of things when it was current for people who'd actually played through everything back then

honestly? I am only more reinforced in believing it was the right call to skip just about everything bar maybe Dragonflight
and I suppose I could have made millions off WoD (and Legion order halls) if I played when it was current, and maybe Legion wasn't a complete shitshow during 7.3
everything else? eminently skippable due to seemingly being either infuriating design-wise (anything post-WoD but pre-DF) or simply a less interesting version of the game I'd played between 2007 and 2011 (MoP and WoD)

like unironically WoW, despite the bugs and the increasingly iffy storylines, is seemingly the best it's been overall since early WotLK
and if you remove the sense of wonder from vanilla/TBC/WotLK (like classic servers are wont to do), then it's just the best outright, like it's not as exciting as it used to be, but it's gotten very good at things it wants to present to the player, and in the recent years got much better about not hitting the player over the head for any old reason, too

[jade abyss]

I was dk main o switched to rogue end legion / bfa bcs wound system on unholy feels ass

[sharp viper]

i think classic would be closer to the actual content than remix

[hearty seal]

what does remix have to do with it

[sharp viper]

just not being a true possibility to relive the content despite being locked to it

[hearty seal]

well, duh, remix is its own thing that has basically none of the systems work the same as they did
but that's the thing
it was mostly the systems that made Legion/BfA/SL such a pain in the ass (and with SL retaining by far the most of the systems, it's also the most pants-on-head idiotic even now, when it's supernerfed)

whereas now we have barely any systems that aren't just an evolution of the old WotLK setup with badges and basically just doing whatever content you like

[golden loom]

having spamplayed tbc classic,
leveling/questing is top tier cause all of the zones are legit mega bangers
(probably warrior/melee bias here but) heroic dungeons are godawful dogshit content and makes me want to spamplay midnight m+ just to cleanse my brain
p1 raids are giga nerfed so they are just not interesting and karazhan is just 100 billion trashpacks
and the worst offender is the economy to where I have spent 5 days ingame goldfarming and I am still pisspoor and dont have my blacksmithing hammer finished yet even, this might just be a megaserver economy issue tho idk

[hearty seal]

levelling/questing in pre-Cata is the best journey I've ever had in MMOs and I repeat it from time to time on different versions of that era, but the novelty is starting to wear off.
the endgame is...just outright worse than retail, IMO.

[golden loom]

yeah the endgame is just farming gold cause its expensive as fuck to raid (I wish I could swipe but I also dont want to risk a ban)

[hearty seal]

like I did TBC classic back in 2021, and Kara was uhhh
just nostalgic I guess, not very fun otherwise

so I kinda dipped after than

[golden loom]

yeah I just kinda spam played it now cause I have never played TBC before and nothing going on in retail so pretty perfect timing

but now I am kinda done with it just in time for midnight early access

awful part early on in TBC is also that getting DPS gear just makes you have to hold back even more damage cause threat is such a large issue still

[hearty seal]

classic Pilav moment
"I don't want to stop damage!"

but yeah getting Tricks in Wrath was huge

[golden loom]

rogue still has vanish to combat threat in tbc

but on warrior I am just in purgatory

I love popping my 30 min cd recklessness and then having to double esc in the middle of it to stop attacking

[fickle coral]

I died in story mode dimensius due to vanish

so embarassing

turns out vanish just insta kills you for some reason in that mode

[lethal arrow]

vanish does many things

[subtle tundra]

makes you dissapear!

[onyx crane]

I like that the last two expacs respected my time more with the shared rep and warband mechanicd

[frank trench]

I know everyone hates shadowlands but I loved the leveling experience. The bastion zone was cool looking, the venthir zone also a banger and the maldraxxus story line was cool with lady vahj being a handler.

[iron carbon]

I agree with that man

World building in SL was great

[lyric geode]

shadowlands was a great expansion

[iron carbon]

But once leveling is done, meh

Before s3, kinda annoying

[lyric geode]

doing korthia at 7 am before uni classes w guildies was peak social interaction

[static glacier]

Sl’s problems were all to do with devs being hardheaded

Also dogshit writing

Other than that good expac

[jolly stirrup]

I heard the GIF in Shacos voice

I am not addicted

[royal lantern]

(many of the negative parts of SL are extremely exxagerated, and most of the "Story/Lore bad and got ruined" stuff people complained about is straight up headcanon shit that was never said or implied that way at all)

[rose narwhal]

"A cosmos divided will not survive what is to come..." one of the quotes of all time for sure after spending an entire expansion going after turbo satan

[humble verge]

@wooden timber cant evem buy sadge

even

[wooden timber]

no.....

i want a plush hachiware

[humble verge]

[wooden timber]

https://tenor.com/view/rakko-chiikawa-lock-in-otter-anime-gif-9342052208340965621

[hazy sundial]

im playing assa on 90 idgaf

i like it the most

fuck meta

[runic hinge]

[lethal turtle]

Love watching locks share 150k sim profiles

Someone kneecap these clowns

[gilded belfry]

you do not want to be meta at this point. I'll bet 5 gold they're slapped hard before the season meaningfully begins

[lethal turtle]

i have no idea. i feel like if your good during heroic week your fine. do they really over nerf people where they are useless

[sharp viper]

https://klipy.com/gifs/sml-prince-charles-2

[humble verge]

bro doesnt know about the ability to purchase, and the money to purchase

[sharp viper]

there is a threshhold where you can throw enough money at vendors that they sell stuff they would not otherwise

[humble verge]

no but this is probably a random store in japan

[tawny shell]

https://i.imgur.com/AxHxhYP.png

[mint urchin]

Was wax even used past s1?

[tawny shell]

not sure. was just piled in bank

[amber yoke]

Thats so dumb. Seein the improved garrote wouldve been such a nice touch of visual clarity

[fresh kelp]

its still good in midnight btw

i wouldnt sell it

[vestal wren]

yes

i still use it

[tawny shell]

https://tenor.com/view/they-had-us-in-the-first-half-not-gonna-lie-gif-13324418441793150631

[fresh kelp]

it scales off your mainhand ilvl and doesn't have a level max

[vestal wren]

+1, it currently seems to do good damage on 90

[fresh kelp]

so its good

[mint urchin]

Huh I thought the stones out performed it

[tawny shell]

https://i.imgur.com/fcZTWdp.png

[vestal wren]

pre patch made mana oil slightly better

but up to that point, it was at least on pure single target one of the best options.

[mint urchin]

Prepatch did some weird things with the stat squish, t1 flasks are the same as t3

[vestal wren]

i atm use it for casual content and to use it up

so its not bad

[fresh kelp]

it's especially good when you have a lopsided weapon ilvl combo, because mana oil/stones are just a flat amount applied to a weapon that scale off your general ilvl, while wax only cares about your mainhand ilvl. so when you craft a weapon early season and your mh ilvl is 15 above your average, wax is way stronger

[mint urchin]

I just went and bought a ton of t1 consumes when I realized it lol

[vestal wren]

its a wild time

but pre patch is only another ~week

[fresh kelp]

which reminds me I need to farm wax before midnight launches i only have like 20 left

[tawny shell]

[amber yoke]

The fuck is bubbling wax?

How get?

[fresh kelp]

rogue only questline that starts from a suspicious vent in the gundargaz inn in ringing deeps main area. once done you can pickpocket kobolds and they sometimes drop wax

and then you go near darkflame cleft entrance and pickpocket dudes, enter the dungeon on some low difficulty, pickpocket a bunch more, go out reset instances (and pickpocket more of the guys outside if you layered), go back into dungeon

should note only ever put it on mainhand, it doesn't work properly when its applied to both weapons

so 1x wax 1x oil or whatever

[amber yoke]

And it's actually a noticeable dps increase?

Like not just 0.3% or smth?

[coral ibex]

depends on what you consider noticeable

0.3% is a decent upgrade

[royal lantern]

wtf time to stock up on flasks

[fresh kelp]

it very much is only like 0.3-0.5%

but its free! and a damage gain

[royal lantern]

(0.3% is within the margain of error)

[fresh kelp]

not with my iterations bucko

thats a big juicy green number

[viral sage]

how likely is it that blizz will fix assa spamming CT in mass aoe to spread bleeds

[royal lantern]

what is there to fix?

isnt spreading dots kinda the point of a dot based spec

[viral sage]

not spending combo points and sat afk in big pulls

[royal lantern]

well thats jst the CT based dmg being to high

nothing else lol

[runic hinge]

Or envenom too low

Could buff that for some ST stonks

[royal lantern]

idk why so many people act as if this CT thing is some gigantic fundamental problem

when its just.......the ability does too much base dmg after the last patch and will get tuned down very quickly if that ever goes into the active game lol

Max Videos giving people Opinions once again

[severe meadow]

Guh

[halcyon flame]

rogue its fine dw

1 of the specs must be good

[severe meadow]

[royal lantern]

are you guys really complaining about the fucking 1month of heroic dungeons phase

like brother, 17march is still without m+ and raids even existing

[viral sage]

because it isnt just a tuning issue. It feels ass to not be able to spread bleeds to everything in big pulls

[royal lantern]

[royal lantern]

??? what ???

you press ct->2 enemys get a bleed

repeat until bleeds are spread

[severe meadow]

I was just expecting another tuning

Not complaining about it

[halcyon flame]

bruh packs dont have 2 mobs ,u have pulls with 8-10-12 adds ,while u try to put bleeds to 6 mobs ,the pack is dead

[royal lantern]

i mean ofc there wont be one on the frking launch week

its launch week, the game will be falling appart by itself allready and they are busy with that

[viral sage]

so pressing CT 4+ times and running out of energy is fun for u?

[royal lantern]

how many pulls are you guys doing with 10-12 adds

[viral sage]

basically every pull in high keys

[royal lantern]

and 6 seconds is still faster then assa is rn for that btw

[royal lantern]

the game is not desinged around the shity +21 key pulls that 30 people in the world will ever see mate lol

and in those pulls you will focus down priority targets anyway

[halcyon flame]

Im not gonna do 10s all expansion bro

[royal lantern]

and you are constantly moving the benchmark btw

and its STILL Faster then it is rn

[royal lantern]

you are on a class discord complaining abot pullsizes in m+, you aint doing high keys mate

[viral sage]

it just feels so unbelievably shit thats all im saying

[royal lantern]

ITS LITERALLY FASTER THEN IT IS RN

https://tenor.com/view/the-voices-meme-cat-gif-23917781

srsly, what the fuck do you guys want

a single button->10 dots at once?

and then afk hitting fok->envenom for 30 seconds?

[halcyon flame]

idk I want catalysm spell on rogue

[coral ibex]

[royal lantern]

im not sure if its bait, cus thats the dogshit that m+ brains legit always say

[viral sage]

makes those 21s easier

xd

[royal lantern]

"wtf why does a Dot Based spec that does most of its dmg with dots not apply dots on 2000000 targets with a single button wtf????"

[mint urchin]

Look man, I really need to bleed the full pack in my heroic dungeons where CT will do more dmg then the dots will because it all dies in 5gcds

[royal lantern]

you mean cataclysm, the ability that is on a spec that doesnt do most of its dmg in aoe with dots?

[halcyon flame]

Wither is top dam

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/thinking-thinking-face-thinking-emoji-thinking-faces-thinking-emojis-gif-15832529529179588009

[mint urchin]

You know cataclysm also does like 0 direct dmg and has a 45ish sec cd right? You really want that over CT?

[royal lantern]

remember when assa had a 8 target dot spread on 45 sec

and according to m+ andys assa was unplayable with it

🙂

dot spread with a cd -> wtf unplayable

dot spread on every pull with stealth -> wtf unplayable

dot spread as literally a generator now that even does overtuned dmg at its current state -> wtf unplayable its not all enemys at once

[night delta]

M+ sin is dead until we have a better DoT spell than seeds of corruption, from that spec which is even more a DoT spec than us

[thorn thorn]

That part is actually true

A lot of destros damage was in wither in aoe

Idk if it is for midnight

[fickle coral]

Assassination is great on delves, and that's what matters!

[night delta]

does Valeera stealth when we do ?

[thorn thorn]

They are still manually spreading agony

And shadow is currently taking a talent to super boost swp so they are manually spreading that too since its on a choice node with tentacle slam also applying it

Sin has it pretty good compared to them

[sacred oyster]

you are doing something wrong, you can always spread bleeds, especially when CD's are being used. but even w/o CD's its fine. I did a sim with CD's disabled, follow the ability log: https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rvhpf5gGc7utppKg3c2zyg

And in group play, if your team mates are killing everything in 5-10 seconds, then maybe just FOK/ENV spam instead. dots are always at disadvantage if pack dies fast. this spread is as fast as your gonna get, 6 seconds is not long to spread to 10 mobs.

[thorn thorn]

Press ability that do good dam and generate combo points in aoe + spread dots

[fickle coral]

I mean, Brann even does, so I'd assume Valeera does

though vanish can be buggy, if you vanish on a boss fight to improved garrote, it'll reset the fight

super annoying.

[thorn thorn]

Be quick and hope it doesnt reset

[night delta]

just checking to be sure

[night delta]

Macro'd Garrote to vanish

[thorn thorn]

Ye

[night delta]

any situation where I wanna vanish to disappear, i'm not facing my target in melee range anyway

[fickle coral]

vanish on story mode dimensius to garrotte for some reason instant killed me

that was amusing 😄

[night delta]

He felt snobbed

Void lords have a BIG ego

[royal lantern]

he made your HP bar vanish

[fickle coral]

I was ashamed for actually managing to die in story mode

[thorn thorn]

He was not amused by your disappearing act

[night delta]

Didn't know shi about Gallywix' arena

saw hole with arrow

jumped

felt like the biggest shmuck this side of planet earth

[fickle coral]

😄

[night delta]

gonna feel wierd delving with a fellow sin rogue companion

don't wanna be overshadowed

[marsh fjord]

Yooooo gamers

[primal jolt]

had it enough getting out dpsd by fellow rogues now even the devle npc will shame me

[fleet whale]

Some people will probably sandbag their own dps in these new "delves" just to simp for Valeera

[solar wyvern]

Im in this pixture and i dont like it

[jade hemlock]

hey - is there a good add that lets you filter out debuffs on nameplates?

[balmy condor]

can't filter nameplates

blizzard barred it

[jade hemlock]

ah ok - so the name plates will just show all debuffs we apply

[night delta]

they really ought to make an option for that

even if it's something as simple as "show only my debuffs"

can't be too complicated to implement

[balmy condor]

what? no

the only things that show on nameplates are bleeds

[spice surge]

If you have plater it will

[balmy condor]

well yeh okay

[spice surge]

Because its stinky

[balmy condor]

if you have plater then it shows everything

[spice surge]

Just dont use old plater profiles

[jade hemlock]

Is cooldownmanager the only real way to track our dots and such on the enemy - and if so, is there a way to augment things like glows/or not have them be yellowed out when they are applied

[balmy condor]

because plater is buggy and shit

[jade hemlock]

Not sure what im using then as i see poisons too

[balmy condor]

probably plater

poisons are removed by default

[jade hemlock]

Ah ok let me disable it if its on

[night delta]

you can make alert setups and they naturally glow red in pandemic

[jade hemlock]

Legend - thanks

Ill mess around

[night delta]

though the pandemic is the dumb version

[velvet ridge]

hey whats the pandemic percent

[night delta]

for rupture

it assumes x combo points i dunno how many, doesn't account for your actual combo points

[jade hemlock]

How so? Im returning and just reading the guides and such - everything feels so much simpler

[night delta]

pandemic for rupture depends on how many combo points you use for it

but the manager doesn't account for that, it's a fixed pandemic duration everytime

[balmy condor]

30%

[velvet ridge]

ty

[balmy condor]

pandemic on rupture uses 5cp duration

the dumb version is totally fine

[jade hemlock]

Does it presume max cp?

[night delta]

what Whispyr said I guess

and yeah, it's fringe cases anyway

[jade hemlock]

Fair

[night delta]

just wait out for 5cp pandemic even if higher

it's already long enough

[jade hemlock]

Is bettercooldownmanager the one that lets you augment glows etc? or does base do it too?

[night delta]

nah base does

the glows are very faint though

alert glows I mean

the pandemic glows are good

[slim copper]

Don’t know about y’all but I’m excited for this season. My goal is top 150 rogue this xpac

[lethal turtle]

I believe in you

Whispyr def gonna try to knock you out of that 150 to 151

[slim copper]

https://tenor.com/view/ken-jeong-jackoff-the-hangover-mr-chow-gif-6968445201384213705

Jk love you whispyr

[balmy condor]

150 by what metric

[slim copper]

Mythic parses

[balmy condor]

oh

[severe meadow]

Times we're about to kiss

[balmy condor]

then yeah, I'm def gonna be in your way on that one

make it 149

[night delta]

imagine 150 sin players clearing mythic

[slim copper]

I would expect you to be higher than that

And how many teams get CE

I figure at least a few thousand?

[balmy condor]

depends how much I could be fucked to try and parse whore as well tbh

there's usually like 8-10k assa parses

[slim copper]

Ok change of plans. Outlaw. 1v1 me. You won’t.

[night delta]

you guys are ruining my joke

[balmy condor]

like in dragonflight, parsing was a vibe

[slim copper]

Jesus

[balmy condor]

but then this expac the strats were all kind of giga cringe

like trying to parse in undermine?

holy cringe

you had to skip like 7 mechanics on mug'zee to even have a chance

[slim copper]

I have no expectations of actually making top 150 but I’ll be damned if I’m not gonna bust my ass

[balmy condor]

and forget trying to parse on gallywix adds

and parsing on one armed required a full strat change with different coins

was fucking miserable

or parsing in nerubar? yeah good luck

p1 ansurek webs and ovi'nax pad

[wooden timber]

gallywix adds were so funny

[slim copper]

I got bounced around like a cheap whore most of this xpac but landed in a good team that will survive I hope

[night delta]

My serious raiding days are over personally, i'll chill in Heroic, not tryhard M+ too high, do some delves, maybe pug the occasional Mythic raid if it's not too hard

[wooden timber]

i tried so hard to caustic them at 3mins

and i got nothign every time

[balmy condor]

silken court parsing was a nightmare too

this expac in general has been a headache to try and push parses

like normally you just kinda pad out of your mind and have a fast-ish kill and you're fine

[wooden timber]

yea stacking raid buff is evil

only last few weeks matter

[severe meadow]

I tried a bit in Manaforge but could never fix Dimmy

Prob because I couldn't be fucked to do more m+ to cap out gear

[balmy condor]

but this expac there's been so many bosses where you're like okay well my guild doesn't do the strat and doesn't skip this and now all my cds don't line up

guess I just die

just kinda felt out of your control on a lot of fights

which is whack

and then obviously parsing in manaforge was just dominated by getting the bug or not

which is the least fun thing I could ever imagine

[wooden timber]

yeah i just played sub only in mfo bc of the bug

[severe meadow]

Sorta why I gave up, felt like ass doing really well and still not parsing well bc no desync

[haughty flicker]

my strat is to just not be good enough to worry about parses in the first place

so far so good

[severe meadow]

Obtain HOF in Midnight

I have faith in you

[haughty flicker]

https://klipy.com/gifs/no-i-dont-think-i-will-2

[velvet ridge]

is there a ui channel to copy someones ui

[tall jay]

My goal is to just get aotc before @balmy condor gets ce…and…I haven’t been able to do it this whole expansion lol

[lethal arrow]

Really funny how dimmy actively punished you for doing too much DMG so you can never parse

Oh look my team is competent and we phased early, fuck u no dmg amp

[stuck lodge]

Wait I'm shit at macros, how do you do this?

[balmy condor]

/cast vanish
/cast garrote

[flat niche]

does anybody know why assisted highlight isnt working for rogues?

[stuck lodge]

Do I just press the button twice? Or will it do both

[balmy condor]

should press it once

vanish is off the gcd

so in theory it just works

[balmy condor]

in what way

it doesn't cast crimson tempest, the rest works fine

[flat niche]

its just now working at all, nothing is flashing but all my other classes are working

[stuck lodge]

It probably also kills me if I'm tryna vanish out from a pull or something though lol breaks stealth immediately

[balmy condor]

yeh idk about it not working at all

I had to check yesterday for guides and it was doin fine

[flat niche]

do you know why it wouldnt work on my rogue but works on all my other classes? any troubleshooting tips? I already reloaded, disabled all addons, etc

[balmy condor]

no clue

first I'm hearing of that happening

[stuck lodge]

Real talk, at what point do I use my Vulpera bag of tricks in my dps rotation

[severe meadow]

Make a macro that uses it but also logs you out

[stuck lodge]

Probably right after my opener I imagine? Pop DM and KB, then bag of tricks + alt f4

[balmy condor]

whenever you have a dead gcd I guess

you can also just

not press it

that button does fucking nothing

[stuck lodge]

but its the only combat ability my race even gives

[balmy condor]

correct

[stuck lodge]

I leveled this rat up for nothing???

[balmy condor]

idk, you tell me why you leveled a vulpera

[haughty flicker]

direct damage racials are all dogshit

but yeah this is karma for making a vulpera

tbh

[balmy condor]

I played vulpera in dragonflight and it was sick

[stuck lodge]

They flip when they jump

[balmy condor]

yeah

it's peak

[haughty flicker]

sick is definitely a word for it

flips are cool though

i wont lie

[stuck lodge]

I suppose something like orc for blood fury or whatever is the "best"

[haughty flicker]

its probably something cursed like mechagnome

but best race is just whichever looks coolest

racials are for nerds

[fickle coral]

Eathen Rogue here

there's literally like 12 of us. Anywhere.

[limber granite]

Hey @balmy condor , how do you feel about the assassination rogue for season 1? I saw that he wasn't going to do any more tuning before the start of Mythic+.

[flint tusk]

Oof the @ ping

[stuck lodge]

its a vote of confidence

[foggy mirage]

[balmy condor]

honestly with them not tuning before the start of mythic+

who knows man

we're gonna wake up randomly during heroic week

and specs are going to lose 30% of their damage overnight

it's fully delusional from blizzard

idk who the hell decided to do it this way

there's so much tuning that still needs to happen and they're going to try cramming it into like 1.5 weeks

so either the tuning notes are going to be 300 pages long

or 80% of dps specs are about to get absolutely fucking cooked by guardian druid

[haughty flicker]

mages and warlocks are already the best classes, what more tuning is needed

[balmy condor]

both getting beat in sims by guardian btw

[haughty flicker]

thats fine

bears are cool

[limber granite]

Yeah, I see it's a mess. Thanks for your reply man

[haughty flicker]

https://klipy.com/gifs/baldurs-gate-3-bear

[balmy condor]

just close your eyes and pray every night

don't break your fast

mashallah the tuning shall make sense and not be a jumbled mess of dogshit

[barren yarrow]

sub and sin?

[balmy condor]

mage and warlock

but yes also sub and sin

and both dk specs

and also all 3 hunter specs

and probably every other spec as well

[barren yarrow]

lmao... doesn't the early access start in 3 days...

wth is going on

[spice surge]

And most are getting beat by brewmaster as well

But yeah no tuning is wild

[balmy condor]

such is life when you rush out an expansion I guess

but yeah get ready for 4 guardian druids and resto sham keys

[barren yarrow]

https://tenor.com/view/what-is-this-whats-happening-gif-14760168

[balmy condor]

I guess

you get to be tank level defensively and then 30-40% ahead of most dps specs

gg

[barren yarrow]

thats actually insane that blizz thinks thats ok.

or maybe they just dont know how to tune at all... idk.

[fringe spear]

whats the resto sham for

just bring 5 bears

drums

if a tank is gonna die they can just meld and the others will get aggro

[stuck lodge]

I dont think keys will be out yet, and presumably they will get changed at the start of the season, but yeah. I imagine a hotfix will come in

[balmy condor]

my tinfoil says microsoft merger wrecked the team halfway into development and everything is behind and new devs aren't comfortable yet

[balmy condor]

well blizzard said no tuning until the start of m+/heroic week

so

[shy heron]

that must be why they broke damage meters

[balmy condor]

if you take them at their word

[shy heron]

so we wouldn't know

[balmy condor]

that would mean we're going into heroic raid day 1 and I'm going to be -29% to a guardian druid

[stuck lodge]

right but with keys I imagine they will do a huge tuning patch

so no 4 bear keys

[balmy condor]

yeah surely

they can use the infinite data they have from wildly varied m+ runs

and the data from raid testing that happened 5 tuning passes ago

[shy heron]

imagine if liquid did an all bears split lmao

[balmy condor]

and then just tune everything all at once in one fell swoop

the day actual content goes out

[stuck lodge]

race to heroic world first is just all bears

[balmy condor]

WHAT COULD GO WRONG

[stuck lodge]

what so what is available on launch?

normal/heroic dungeons and raids?

[balmy condor]

campaign, leveling, world content comes with early access on the 27th

with no m0

then 2nd of march early access ends and everyone gets access

march 17th two weeks later you get voidspire and dreamrift on heroic, mythic 0, and bountiful delves

march 24th you get mythic voidspire and dreamrift, mythic+ opens

march 31st you get march on quel'danas on all difficulties

and then that's everything for season 1

[stuck lodge]

Ah so launch, 2/27 or 3/2, its no raids, just dungeons to heroic?

[balmy condor]

so TLDR is march 17th is when you get actual content

and from now until march 17th you're gonna level and do heroic dungeons and random delves and stuff

and then after march 17th they're opening more and more stuff

until march 31st everything is fully available

[stuck lodge]

Sweet, thanks

[balmy condor]

np

[drifting cloud]

Hey @earnest remnant , how do you feel about the assassination rogue for season 1? I saw that he wasn't going to do any more tuning before the start of Mythic+.

[barren yarrow]

agreed

[drifting cloud]

so what youre saying those balance notes on like the 20th are gonna go crazy

[spice surge]

Ye

[drifting cloud]

and then the extra notes on Monday after the weekend

[spice surge]

Better start exercising that scroll button today so you're ready

[barren yarrow]

lol

[solar wyvern]

Dw i got it

[barren yarrow]

Larias checklist addon is out

[balmy condor]

ctrl+f rogue 0/0

[solar wyvern]

Garrote -10% ct -50% spatter +2% envenom +20% aura nerf 5%

[drifting cloud]

Im sure theyll nerf envenom in pvp or something

[solar wyvern]

Hello i work for bleezard pls play our new sub rogue