you know its funny how combo existed for 2 tiers in legion
#assassination
waxen oyster
Honestly listening to non rogue mains talk about this class.
Genuinely triggers me.
waxen oyster
because people will bring up mechanics of the class that are 5+ years old
solar wyvern
Holy shit
waxen oyster
and pretend they still exist
haughty flicker
lean plover
remove combo points and call them ct points
idk how they work
but something with ct dmg
waxen oyster
Tbh all they have to do is make your mark expire if mob flies away
solar wyvern
jade abyss
Lets go back to classic where cps stick on the mob and you lose them when you switch targets D:
lean plover
heheh
waxen oyster
and it'll literally be fine
waxen oyster
Lets go back to classic where cps stick on the mob and you lose them when you sw...
Classic rogue 
I enjoy being able to make breakfast in between my rotation
lean plover
everytime you ct, you envenom all targets. counts as a 7 points envenom
solar wyvern
They should legit just have a 1 minute cd spell "remove your mark"
solar wyvern
To compensate weve reduced caustic by 4%
jade abyss
I enjoy being able to make breakfast in between my rotation
Haha
haughty flicker
unmarked for death
haughty flicker
waxen oyster
is a god tier qol
lean plover
? oh no, this build only works with 60% caustic
tight ginkgo
deathstalker's remark
waxen oyster
solar wyvern
? oh no, this build only works with 60% caustic
You mean 60% psychic kink???
weary stump
team have y'all seen the zillow collab wow has now yet 
why is this a real thing
solar wyvern
Goron tunic????
waxen oyster
im gonna be honest
solar wyvern
Crimson link!!!!
waxen oyster
My house just exists so anyone who enters it gets stuck in a bubble
worldly sail
You mean 60% psychic kink???
psychic kink 
waxen oyster
and has to hearth to get out
solar wyvern
psychic kink <:omg:1303518740092289064>
haughty flicker
weary stump
My house just exists so anyone who enters it gets stuck in a bubble
what i did was i made my house float and whoever enters it and then exits gets trapped by the mailbox point and has to hearth out
waxen oyster
you'd be impressed
lean plover
so the gameplay is you ct, that ct envenoms in aoe (not capped), and every target gets caustic (all of them spread their envenoms, not just get dmg by it)
healthy gameplay
solar wyvern
Still loses to arcane mage
waxen oyster
tbh i like when assa is a dot spec
lean plover
like, point at me 1 single balance issue
waxen oyster
and not green sub
solar wyvern
:/
Im enjoying how powerful rupture and garrote are
Just wish we had a cooldown that made them tick faster
Maybe on a short cd
lean plover
could it be red=
solar wyvern
Well its a bleed ao
solar wyvern
Excite bleeds? Extra sauce? Exsangeria?
waxen oyster
you gotta garrote 1 garrote 2 garrote 3
hit your vendetta exsang
then garrote again for who knows why
spice surge
Excite bleeds? Extra sauce? Exsangeria?
Sounds like where you go to get your blood leeched in medieval spain
lean plover
hit your vendetta exsang
40k lets goooooooooo
waxen oyster
i mean that was the season playing assa in keys wasnt int
over the other 2
or well df rework
jade abyss
Wait we play puzzlebox ? X.x
pliant remnant
solar wyvern
Wait we play puzzlebox ? X.x
Probs maybe feather?
green pier
TIL weapon poison buffs are removed when you unequip your weapons.... that always been a thing? đ
waxen oyster
maybe if you zoned into pvp
green pier
i'm in a raid... i unequipped my gear because silken court death strat
and it removed the poison buffs
(they don't come back on re-equip)
tight ginkgo
like this
spice surge
yes but something like 45 sec or 1 min cd
Too OP, may i suggest 3 minutes instead?
fresh kelp
severe meadow
If you're min maxing DS will prob outshine FB
spice surge
3 min is vanilla cd timers
Or dragonflight
wet river
If you're min maxing DS will prob outshine FB
i do min/max so if ds outshines ill be playing that
severe meadow
I don't think it's that big of a difference tbh
hazy helm
like this
That feels like it was just result in a net aoe nerf tbh, nice lil single target boost though. If they gave us a button to press like that. Which they wonât.
hazy helm
Are we equating CDs to maintenance buffs now?
lean plover
exsan used to be a cd
haughty flicker
hazy helm
Okay? How does that have anything to do with someone suggesting we get a button to press like warriors had that was a maintenance buff for bleed damage and not CD. Maintenance buff = tuning of base damage for whatever itâs maintaining. CDs are tuned separately
tight ginkgo
ive seen a fair amount of blood but ive never seen it drippy like the exsang icon
haughty flicker
ive seen a fair amount of blood but ive never seen it drippy like the exsang ico...
have you tried making floating orbs out of it
tight ginkgo
have you tried making floating orbs out of it
working on that soon but havent mastered it yet
hazy helm
Getting a button like skullsplitter = garrote/rupture tuning = ST buff = aoe nerf since we wouldnât be able to maintain dots in aoe at that tick rate with out energy pool. So, like I said, would be a cool ST buff, aoe nerf.
spice surge
No idea why they didnt just make Deathmark do that instead of the +100% damage
Even at the start
The doubling of the debuff was just weird
hazy helm
Youâd run out of tea charges on the first pull and never have more than 1 banked the rest of the run
tight ginkgo
yeah i think thats moreso what i mean by bringing it up. something like that seems more iconic to a bleed buff than doubling their dam
spice surge
very much so
hazy helm
Yeah, it would be way better to buff death mark than get a maintenance buff button
spice surge
And its not like exsang which had weird snapshots
lean plover
Okay? How does that have anything to do with someone suggesting we get a button ...
my point was we had something like skullsplitter
tight ginkgo
exsang just seemed a bizarre way to go about it when skullsplitter was right there
hazy helm
Okay, fair enough I concede
oblique jackal
They need to redesign deathmark
hazy helm
They need to figure out wtf they want to do
They want to base the xpac around apex talents, then make changes that devalue our apex talents
Bleed build = why even spec into apex talents.
oblique jackal
It feels as if they've rushed the design
spice surge
Bleed build = why even spec into apex talents.
For the 20% bleed damage
oblique jackal
or ran out of idaas
hazy helm
Thatâs not even close to the theme they pushed with assa
Slow ramping monster than spams envenom
Our highest aoe doesnât touch envenom even at 7cp
oblique jackal
If it was more visual pleasing I wouldn't mind. However, we have awful visuals
hazy helm
As of now, in aoe we donât touch anything but CT until everything is bled, then we press envenom maybe once or twice before we start refreshing bleeds. Itâs a silly design that theyâve done for. Not sure if anyone has mentioned this, but wow devs arenât particularly good at developing things
spice surge
Wdym once or twice
lean plover
afaik ct spam becomes worth on 8+ targets
spice surge
No
hazy helm
Itâs a dps loss to press envenom at 7cp over pressing crimson tempest again at 7cp unless everything already has bleeds
spice surge
Its CT until everything has bleeds
Which takes like 5 seconds of ct, then your bleeds are up for another 25
hazy helm
Its CT until everything has bleeds
I think you missed my edit, changed âitâ to envenom to be more clear. My b
spice surge
Idk people are making this sound way more egregious than it actually is
Your bleeds last 30+ seconds
jade igloo
close your eyes and press CT its a simple roto
spice surge
Even assuming constant big cleave where every single target matters (which is insanely rare btw) you still have atleast 15-20 seconds of spamming fok > envenom
hazy helm
I guess the point Iâm trying to get across, in recognizing that theyâre trying to push class theme and fantasy with apex talents; is that in honoring the class theme theyâve pushed it would make more sense to balance around spreading bleeds to your 5/10 targets for the agi boost them pressing envenom.
nova kelp
idk, ct instead of fok is pretty annoyingly complex by comparison to individually bleeding everything previously
hazy helm
There would have to be a massive caustic spatter buff to get rid of bleed build. For m+ at least. Weâll see, 4 weeks left of potential tuning changes before season starts đ¤
spice surge
Well theyre not trying to get rid of bleed build, then they wouldve removed bleed talents instead of adding them
lethal turtle
Make scent 1/1 for max
hazy helm
I know, which is silly. CT spam makes us significantly more energy starved.
spice surge
Idk i dont see the appeal of being green sub rogue with envenoms, bleeds are the interesting bit of assa
hazy helm
Try dotting 16 mobs then getting off 6 envenom before having to refresh to max out energy regen from apex talent, without burning though every single thistle tea charge
spice surge
16 mobs pulls are fairly rare, and 16 mob pulls where every mob matters is even rarer
hazy helm
In lower keys sure. As you move higher and are more commonly 3-4 packing it, less so
spice surge
In higher keys too
hazy helm
I mean, sure man.
lean plover
16 mob pulls depend on the key more than the key level
like gambit vs dawnbreaker
but like, not every mob matters
hazy helm
True to an extent, which is sad because a large portion of this dungeon pool were getting would be great for phys comp aoe cap pulling
lean plover
but like even in huge pulls not every mob matters, spreading your bleeds to the shitty mobs may be a dmg increase but most likely not a speed increase
hazy helm
The 10% auto attack nerf on top of 15% aura when they fixed the bug hit a little too hard
hazy helm
but like even in huge pulls not every mob matters, spreading your bleeds to the ...
Do you actually expect people to recognize higher overall doesnât always equate faster dungeons? Preposterous!
Unfortunately, when blizzard bothers tuning around m+ and not raid, they tune around overall damage.
jade igloo
yes they tune with a dart board
nova kelp
I've played a solid while, and while it's clear they tune "outliers" in general I've yet to be able to decipher necessarily what they look for exactly within that bracket.
If it's "overall" there are TONS of examples over the years that suggest for AND against. So I'm not so sure it's that simple often.
pliant remnant
Yeah, hence why they use a dart board
Sometimes for, sometimes against
Sometimes maybe good sometimes maybe shit
pliant remnant
I'm just happy they're reeling back those fuckin' Arms Warriors
hazy helm
I've played a solid while, and while it's clear they tune "outliers" in general ...
I mean, when is that last time they did a tuning pass based around m+ that hit all the single target abilities and not aoe? Pretty easy to infer from there
spice surge
It was 7, but yea
hazy helm
No no. Iâm good with 10
hazy helm
Prio god*
nova kelp
I mean, when is that last time they did a tuning pass based around m+ that hit a...
inferring is fair, but it's literally impossible to know if that inference is correlation or causation.
more just that a lot of people to profess to KNOW how blizz do x/y internally for certain without working there.
spice surge
I mean thats what weve had all of tww
hazy helm
Assa has ass funnel
spice surge
Theyve purposefully moved away from it
hazy helm
inferring is fair, but it's literally impossible to know if that inference is co...
I donât think blizzard knows what blizzard is doing internally. So thatâs a moot point
nova kelp
I donât think blizzard knows what blizzard is doing internally. So thatâs a moot...
also 100% fair
pliant remnant
Class designers when the breast milk runs out
spice surge
The venomous wound changes are very deliberate the move away from having infinite energy in aoe and very little in ST, so theyve evened them out to be similar
lethal turtle
Yeah the IQ food stopped
hazy helm
The venomous wound changes are very deliberate the move away from having infinit...
Think they were more because of wanting to force us into the apex talent playstyle where weâre rewarded with a stupidly short duration 80% energy regen buff, for not letting envenom buff drop before using it 6 times
spice surge
Think they were more because of wanting to force us into the apex talent playsty...
Yeah surely it has nothing to do with people complaining about m+ assa having tank ST damage all throughout tww
hazy helm
Which is really confusing when our highest dps sims favor using CT at 7cp instead of pressing envenom unless everything has bleeds already. Blizzard are professional gaslighters
spice surge
It wasnt really tank damage, but it wasnt that good no
Assa had to give up a lot of ST talents to get aoe talents
lethal turtle
I was a frost dk at the time. Think I did a few title lvl keys with a sin. Iâd have to check. Yeah I remember boss dmg was ass if we didnât pool mobs in
spice surge
But it was especially bad this last season
hazy helm
Welp! Hopefully they learn from demo warlock tuning. Because it took them 4 tuning passes to realize if they tuned around apex talents and not hero tree or base ability damage, it might balance them
spice surge
I mean it kinda doesnt matter if apex or regular talents is what makes you strong
hazy helm
Fine tuning the things that have the biggest impact on your dpsâŚ.might have a little more impact than fine tuning a talent that gives +- 1% impact
spice surge
Ofc
spice surge
What
balmy condor
it's true, I'm the psychologist
hazy helm
^
lethal turtle
Are we 100% that we just stop envenom once 80%
balmy condor
(I have no clue what he's talking about either eleem)
hazy helm
^
hazy helm
If you have energy and arenât in cdâs without tea charges left, probably want to keep using envenom.
haughty flicker
severe meadow
<a:RenDance:1451903423275339867>
balmy condor
Or do we ignore that under lust ?
if you're gonna overcap energy regardless then you'd ignore the apex ya
lethal turtle
Ok I figured that made most sense. Sometimes I question it
nova kelp
RAWR NUMBERS
RAWR TYOONING
RAWR ANGERFASE
I wouldn't mind having an instant free on resource stun/aoe stun like others get but idk
Stuff, a turtle made it to the water
lethal turtle
Is this Thin Shadarek
hazy helm
haughty flicker
finally
hallow glade
Do the lashers really need your damage
Surely the big guys that outlive everything should be envenomed
marsh fjord
RAWR NUMBERS
RAWR TYOONING
RAWR ANGERFASE
I wouldn't mind having an instant fre...
Why are you rawring at me
haughty flicker
words to live by
fleet whale
A future Midnight tier set is gonna modify CT so that weâll use it in ST again
It is inevitable
fleet whale
I mean it already hits harder than a base mutilate (without systemic failure)
So I guess itâs not that far off
marsh fjord
Time to pack it up
jade igloo
is poison bomb not showing in logs?
bleak star
are we using deathmark for aoe build now? in prepatch and beta?
haughty flicker
is poison bomb not showing in logs?
it'll be listed under envenom iirc
severe meadow
@humble verge https://vxtwitter.com/i/status/2023686673666851271
balmy condor
he hittin that shit
severe meadow
he hittin that shit
You don't say
native birch
I'm testing out Sudden Demise and it seems like it barely ever activates. Even with a full row of DoTs rolling I'm rarely seeing it proc, and it's making up less than 2% of my damage in delves when it does.
The tooltip seems to indicate that it should proc every single time a mob is in execute range from the remaining DoT duration. Am I missing something, or is it bugged?
balmy condor
it doesn't work in open world/delve because the mob scaling messes with its math
native birch
Noted, thanks for the info
humble verge
he hittin that shit
steel ridge
friend of a friend plays world of warcraft for the first time
picks rogue
plays assassination
i am so sorry
delicate turret
make sure he plays as much as possible then we can get buffs for bad numbers
hazy helm
Do the lashers really need your damage
Overall dps > faster dungeon times. Zug.
little ginkgo
i am so sorry
i wouldnt wanna play anyother class
balmy condor
charrend I have new cooking
hearty reef
Why is rupture that wek đ đ
sinful verge
Can someone explain how in this log by tactile he had a 171k envenom during the dimmy burn https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/zPAa2wVCtv4FYjfn?fight=last&type=damage-done&source=15 and in this one my max was 58k https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/XCFkHZWgTwBhftn4?fight=40&type=damage-done&source=8
obviously my rotation isn't perfect and gear etc, but i must be doing something significantly wrong to have the difference be that large
balmy condor
he has zero haste, it's full crit mast vers, you're down a significant couple of ilvl, his boss was under 35% so he got it during zoldyck as well
it is gross though
sinful verge
If that's the better stat setup - Shouldn't sims be telling me to drop all haste? or is it some weird combination of the damage amp etc
also what's Zoldyck?
balmy condor
also what's Zoldyck?
balmy condor
If that's the better stat setup - Shouldn't sims be telling me to drop all haste...
it's not the better stat setup, it's the higher envenom stat setup
sinful verge
ooh okay, thanks - sorry new to assa / rogue tbh
He's about 10k dps above the next assa rogue
balmy condor
over the entire fight, his stats are objectively shit
sinful verge
granted sample size is kinda small due to patch just releasing
balmy condor
but for the sake of big dicking an envenom during a damage amp
haste is pointless
haste is also pointless when you're killing dimmy in 3:30
but ya know
that's a separate issue
when p1 lasts literally 40 seconds
it makes sense that you don't need haste for anything lmao
sinful verge
yeah that's a good point lmao
all good then as long as i'm not doing something fundamentally awful gimping my dmg
a lot to learn regardless
balmy condor
parsing in prepatch isn't about playing good or unlocking the secrets of the universe, especially not this prepatch with the stat squish
subtle tundra
meow
balmy condor
it's just speed, cheese, and in this case, abusing random shit that got scaled down weird
sinful verge
Yeah i get that, just being new to the spec - it's about all i can look at to judge if i'm playing dog or not
final star
wouldn't worry about it til next xpac really
balmy condor
this patch is just utter dogshit
subtle tundra
honestly i wouldnt worry ever
sinful verge
yeah haha, hopefully midnight sorts us out
subtle tundra
its justa game
subtle tundra
reapply rupture to get internal bleeding
balmy condor
I LOVE THE KITCHEN
you run this, same build but on fatebound is basically spot on equal except DS has slightly more prio cause of singular
if you need 2/2 scent for smaller pull dungeons, you drop the last apex
final star
tbf it does say weapon poison and not lethal, but i would've assumed it was only lethal
balmy condor
fok buff pushed it higher, and its especially better in aoe
balmy condor
tbf it does say weapon poison and not lethal, but i would've assumed it was only...
yeah in hindsight its xdd so obvious dumbass lmao
it says it right on the talent!
solar wyvern
okay ill send it into the dining room and report back to the kitchen CHEF!
final star
it says it right on the talent!
we've been burned too many times when the obvious isn't the reality 
balmy condor
okay ill send it into the dining room and report back to the kitchen CHEF!
I'm trying to find a sim I ran earlier as well
maybe I just rerun
solar wyvern
is there a stat u think this prefers? or is it just another assa rogue stats dont matter situation
solar wyvern
I have been trying it a lot actually
did you know
it resets to 60
if u change it
balmy condor
the blue one is also very good
solar wyvern
Start of key play mastery -> on boss swap to crit start 60 stacks go brrrr
balmy condor
the more aoe the more mast obv
but it's like
kinda minor
in general crit/haste is probably better than mast
outside of like
algethar or whatever
then you can probably drop a bit of crit cause you don't need the CP
but yeh fatebound is same shit
except fatebound has extra energy from rush to the inevitable
deal fate + rush specifically is just more resources than deathstalker
so you unlock new technology
and can drop dashing for the second scent point, instead of the 4th apex
and then like sudden demise nonsense is between 3-5% worse
blindside isn't good enough because systemic is dogshit
doomblade dogshit
imp poison dogshit
avulsion is like -1.5%
deadly momentum dogshit
regicide is like kinda okay
balmy condor
internal bleeding sucks too
that's like -0.6 or something overall
cause you just want the crit for cp
and these sims are with the ct spam
this is the best sudden demise I could muster
and it's like -3.5%
and yes, that is amp poison no dtb
solar wyvern
ik the cook behind that already
funny
that build is actually
very close to what i was running day 1
LOL
balmy condor
yeh
if there was a talent worth a fuck to put the amp point into
this would for sure be turbo bis
but legit every alternative for that amp point is utter dogshit
I'm pretty sure if you can micro-manage your poisons between pulls and you naturally have the time to swap the poisons back and forth
it's probably competitive even
but it's also just less ST
so
that's a lot of fucking effort for equal
runic hinge
Do you think they leave poisons with a cast time to avoid degen stuff with swapping mid pull?
balmy condor
okay i try 2x scent build in this nexus point
dm logs
balmy condor
Do you think they leave poisons with a cast time to avoid degen stuff with swapp...
with that sudden demise build, you would still want to do it
it is 100% worth it to swap to deadly for aoe
runic hinge
So then itâs true. Because maybe I would run that if I didnât have to think about swapping poisons between pulls.
balmy condor
you still could
if you count the execute damage on sudden demise, it probably does more
than other builds
just gotta gaslight mr kwanza and quakethymother that sudden demise is legit damage
runic hinge
Lmao
solar wyvern
ye i have tommorow off so i have lots of time to fiddle
maybe theyll implement buffs too xd
balmy condor
flying daggers seems real shit btw
but like
real shit in the way that it's probably good in algethar and nowhere else
solar wyvern
tbh algethar isnt even that big of a pull dungeon
balmy condor
if you can stay at like 5-8 target pulls for the entire dungeon
solar wyvern
its just first area
solar wyvern
i mean bird area is just 6/7 (XD) targets unless u have an aug to pull shit for u onto it
and boss boss area is 1 pull with 5 targets
last*
balmy condor
in df it was standard procedure to basically pull the entirety of every boss area all at once
solar wyvern
yeah u cant anymore
balmy condor
unlucky
solar wyvern
the big dragon dudes
in last area
do a 80% hp slam
its like pulling 4 paladins in prio
balmy condor
vers gaming super easy
(assa is legit zero vers)
vers-allergic
those damned blue names win again with their haste/vers bullshit
REALLYMAD
balmy condor
Rogue stats seem kinda gud though ngl
Assa crit/haste
sub haste/vers
outlaw crit/haste
Like aside from vers on sub, stats are pretty much the same shit
quasi pine
Assa crit/haste
sub haste/vers
outlaw crit/haste
does that mean we can switch to OL really easily from assa
quasi pine
quasi pine
yeah at least one
balmy condor
And getting a sword requires immediate trolling or getting fed one from mythic raid and then troll
quasi pine
i'll probably craft one for that, just to not do the "rik fight" ever again in assa
quasi pine
2 dabloons, that's all i've got
balmy condor
But crafting is so stupid strong with the crest changes
That like unless the tier is already over for your guild
You would be silly to waste a craft on a sword
balmy condor
Even at like 5th or 6th craft
quasi pine
ouch
balmy condor
Crafting gives you 5/6 myth for 60 crests
When normally 5/6 myth costs you like
100
quasi pine
That will probably not change till s2 if that's the case on beta
balmy condor
So like yeah if youâre gonna play outlaw, best solution is to craft
But youâd actively flush a weeks worth of crests down the drain
quasi pine
yeah not worth it at all
balmy condor
Alternatively you would get fed a weapon at like 2/6 myth from raid
And then just not upgrade it
But if you see a myth weapon from your vault, youâre probably not going to take that either
Because the chance that you have nothing better
Is gonna be really low
quasi pine
if the crafts are that goated, i might have to just craft half of my stuff
balmy condor
Thatâs what itâs looking like yeah
quasi pine
it's not looking good on this 
balmy condor
The crest changes essentially mean that youâre gonna be hardstuck 3/6 and 4/6 myth on non-craft
quasi pine
yeah but we'll get what, 60 crest per week at usual?
balmy condor
And crafting is so giga efficient to get 5/6
quasi pine
and 1 spark?
quasi pine
unless it's a really strong trinket, we'll have to use crests to craft then
quasi pine
craft were the same cost as upgrades on tww or am i tripping?
balmy condor
you just crafted with every spark
Yes but it wasnât inhibitive like now
quasi pine
yeah so it was still worth it to upgrade instead of craft, both were good
balmy condor
Crafting in midnight is like crafting at 35 or 40 crests in tww
jade abyss
Why play outlaw when you can play sin đ¤ or i miss something?
balmy condor
Because itâs fun and cool
subtle tundra
misinformation
quasi pine
Why play outlaw when you can play sin đ¤ or i miss something?
rik reverb wrote that
jade abyss
Because itâs fun and cool
Point for you but i hope the speccs are close to each other dmg wise in raid
balmy condor
misinformation
I hope you run the wrong way in every labyrinth in 3.28 king
balmy condor
Point for you but i hope the speccs are close to each other dmg wise in raid
Yeah the 3 specs are close to each other from what I saw
Assassination, subtlety, and brewmaster monk
jade abyss
balmy condor
Iâm not kidding btw brewmaster sims are within like 5% of assa
Brewmaster is better than some dps specs atm
jade abyss
Sounds terrible
quasi pine
Iâm not kidding btw brewmaster sims are within like 5% of assa
because we're low in dps, or they are too high?
or both
balmy condor
because we're low in dps, or they are too high?
Theyâre probably about double what they should be
quasi pine
probable nerf soon tm
balmy condor
Like when I say absurd
Their tiger palm right
Is doing roughly the damage of envenom, kingsbane, and the entire fatebound tails damage combined
solar wyvern
seemsfine
balmy condor
Except that envenom, kingsbane, and fatebound tails cleaves for 18% from caustic
quasi pine
how the hell is that even possible to let that happen
quasi pine
tf did they put in their beer?
red schooner
At least its just PTR and it'll be fixed by live. Right? ....right?
balmy condor
Thatâs the cleave of one tiger palm
quasi pine
At least its just PTR and it'll be fixed by live. Right? ....right?
will hit live and be nerfed 2 weeks after the launch of the season (probably?)
balmy condor
Tuning is a little strange still
quasi pine
the question is, what is the point of using daggers, if they do less damages than fists
jade abyss
Use fistweapons
balmy condor
the question is, what is the point of using daggers, if they do less damages tha...
They can punch REALLY good
old lily
Does the apex talent fix the "flow" of Assa, i've tried it in prepatch and feels pretty dog with energy
quasi pine
I need to learn that, i'll drop my daggers mid fight to punch the boss while no one suspect me
solar wyvern
idk how this is simming good whispyr ngl
i mean tank pulled like ass
but how is 40% deadly and amp worth 2% crit and secondary
and yeeesh the st
balmy condor
Does the apex talent fix the "flow" of Assa, i've tried it in prepatch and feels...
Not particularly
old lily
So the sub nerf makes damage somewhat mid and the apex talent doesnt fix energy issues alongside damage not being that big
solar wyvern
Assa crit/haste
sub haste/vers
outlaw crit/haste
also sub really doesnt mind subbing versa for crit so its like move some jewelry around and ur good
Also i think
secondary poisoning is bugged
where is it?
balmy condor
But yeh you gotta realize that like
Secondary the damage, doesnât look great
But itâs also applying the poisons
So youâre getting bonus hits on amp/deadly
Is there like a cleave pull
Pull up some like random not giga pull
balmy condor
So the sub nerf makes damage somewhat mid and the apex talent doesnt fix energy ...
Depends on what âfixâ energy issues means, cause assa in s1 midnight is already as fast as it was in tww s3
So like
Weâre very quickly barreling towards the fastest assa has been in the last decade
Well, maybe 7 years I guess nyâalotha exists
old lily
The "fix" i meant was i am under the impression that on ST we still get giga gapped with energy so we have to do a send and then pool for 10 seconds then giga send
balmy condor
Thatâs never been a thing
old lily
I have been very mistaken then
final star
In prepatch right now you just slam all the time
just like irl 
balmy condor
In midnight with the apex you envenom like 4-5 times
And then force envenom to drop sometimes maybe if youâre not in lust
If youâre in lust youâre kinda fucked and just have to accept that youâre overcapping energy no matter how hard you try
But such is life I guess
old lily
Is that aoe or ST
balmy condor
Both I guess
The energy in aoe and st is practically equal
Until youâre in like 7-8 target range
Then aoe is a bit faster
old lily
So why would we need to let envenom drop?
old lily
Do you have a guide link, seems like i need to read some stuff myself
balmy condor
Prepatch guides donât cover midnight but if you open the wowhead talent calculator it should be there
Maybe you have to go to the beta site using the button at the top
Can just read it from there
Itâs pretty straightforward
Itâs also kinda the only change rotationally
You just envenom, stack it up, let it drop, repeat
Man why is 4am and im in bed and canât sleep
Fuck my chungus life
solar wyvern
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/VaKLYxQMhwNRtXrC?fight=last&type=damage-done&source=6&pull=9
what do u think of these 2 target situations, both 2:50 timers, one starts with DM the other doesnt (hence the 1 cast) yet the damage is similar
One build has secondary + 2% crit the other 40% poison damage.
I also ran about 200 more mastery and puzzlebox in the 40% poison log
balmy condor
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/VaKLYxQMhwNRtXrC?fight=last&type=damage-don...
Sorry that happened or happy for you bro
solar wyvern
fan damage kinda go crazy hmmge
solar wyvern
Sorry that happened or happy for you bro
Congratulations or my condolences
spice surge
Assa crit/haste
sub haste/vers
outlaw crit/haste
Sub is mostly crit/mastery after haste breakpoint
Only prepatch is dumb with haste vers
balmy condor
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/VaKLYxQMhwNRtXrC?fight=last&type=damage-don...
Yah idk looks similar to me I guess
balmy condor
Sub is mostly crit/mastery after haste breakpoint
Haste breakpoint in midnight is still like 30%?
solar wyvern
I played momentum as well, so maybe ftb is actually kind of insane in 2target
balmy condor
Momentum should be marginally better until like 5? Targets
spice surge
Haste breakpoint in midnight is still like 30%?
~13
balmy condor
Ftb really starts cranking once you get to like 7-8+
balmy condor
~13
Oh thatâs significantly less than assa
still a lot of stat overlap
Assa in midnight is probably like 20ish% haste
So you probably can just swap a ring + neck or re-enchant
And then be pretty close
spice surge
Still seems fine ye just swap a ring or two
balmy condor
Theorycrafting for Assa is kinda poop because everything is kinda on a spectrum still
Like st yeah crit/haste go go
But then in aoe you want like crit/haste/mast
And you swap like 8 talents for raid cleave
So itâs kinda like
Hmmmm
spice surge
Sub doesn't really swap many talents still
It's like 1 or 2 points at most
Because like 90% of the talents are twice as good as the remaining 10%
balmy condor
Like even in 1 target cleave add, sims already want ct + thrown precision + caustic + pb + secondary + no blindside
spice surge
Kinda jank
balmy condor
I can kinda fix the apl a little bit
Cause bleed spreading without CT is kinda shit
But like I gave it the option of just having Ct and caustic
old lily
So the moment you have more than 1 target you want to go aoe?
balmy condor
And it didnât want that
It wanted basically the full swap
And Iâm like aight I guess
balmy condor
So the moment you have more than 1 target you want to go aoe?
Yeh pretty much
spice surge
How much is the st simming roughly btw
balmy condor
Like high 80
spice surge
Fair sub is like low 80
balmy condor
Kinda jank
It is kinda jank until you realize that assa is fok on 2
And then you think about the talents youâre dropping right
spice surge
Ye blindside stinky with fok
balmy condor
Doomblade, systemic failure, those are just mut talents
Improved poisons? Thatâs kinda shit
And then you also drop both points of lethal dose cause they kinda suck in low target count
spice surge
Fok at 2, bp at 2 
balmy condor
And so all of a sudden you just gained 5 points in the upper tree and can move blindside onto shrouded
And with those 5 points you can ct/tp/caustic/pb/secondary
And pb is also st damage
So you basically gave up 5 points of mut damage and random dogshit talents
To get every good aoe talent imaginable
Itâs a lot of talents to swap but the actual impact is pretty minor
spice surge
So basically never play st except if it's pure pure st like fractillus
balmy condor
Yeah seems that way
Like the same way you were perma specced into caustic in s3
Youâre probably perma specced ct, caustic, poison bomb, thrown precision
And then most likely secondary poisoning
But thatâs a questionable point
Itâs just kinda whatâs left over and the options are imp poison or raw mut talents 
Or 1/2 lethal dose
Which is also insanely poggers
solar wyvern
Would that mean in raid we would want a bit more mastery since like every foght has cleave (assuming assa is played)
Since were just playing aoe shit anyway
balmy condor
Probably not
I mean the stat breakdown is like 1000/800/500
Itâs not like weâre avoiding mastery or anything
Itâs just slightly laggin behind
If youâre giga sweaty then like maybe I guess you go like 950/750/600
But does it matter
The aoe will probably explode anyway
balmy condor
Pure st yes
With singular hittin, no
But itâs probably not as turbo shit as you think, itâs like -5% to fb
Was much further behind in s3
old lily
Does SF work again?
subtle tundra
the more i read this stuff about assa the more cancer i get
thanks
right now i have liver and pancreatic c
balmy condor
Does SF work again?
Whatâs your definition of work
It was never really âbrokenâ per say
old lily
in S3 caustic damage did not work with SF but CT double dipped
balmy condor
The CT double dip was something else, but yeah
It still doesnât work with caustic
But caustic is also significantly weaker now
So probably intended I guess
jade abyss
But it worked in s2 correctly?
old lily
!bugs
balmy condor
But it worked in s2 correctly?
Idk about correctly, the spec aura was double dipping in multiple places
Fixing that is what âbrokeâ caustic + singular interacting
Could argue that it wasnât supposed to work like that in the first place and the spec aura getting double dipped was the actual bug
Which is an entirely reasonable take
During testing in s1 and s2 I was often asked to afk for a pull because caustic + singular was cranking out an insane amount of combat events and lagging our raid
So it interacting was always kinda problematic
old lily
that's a huge fkn issue lmao
spice surge
It really isnt
old lily
ofc not anymore but back then
balmy condor
Yeah it was fine on live servers
But ptr servers are always a bit scuffed
So the servers kinda being shit and then also singular
No good
Was a bit silly though
You press envenom, it applies 2 lethal poisons, consumes deathstalkers mark, and procs poison bomb, so thatâs already 5 instances of damage that are spattering immediately, times however many targets you have, and then all singular focusing back in
And then you do broodtwister oviânax testing
And thereâs legit 25 mobs up
So you envenomed once and thereâs 125 damage events of singular focus coming back in
Plus all the poison bomb ticks on all the mobs, and all the poisons ticking, and the bleeds ticking, and the auto attacks on your target which are also spattering and also singular focusing
balmy condor
Assa legit just ended up throwing like 25x the damage events as a normal spec
It was insane
I was single handedly adding like a full raids worth of combat events by doing my regular rotation
weary stump
Brood was a performance nightmare <:omegalul:585734084777476096>
My favorite part about brood was asking raid if they'd still love me if I was a worm after wipes
Also during mythic prog we bugged out at a wipe once where boss didn't despawn as we all died but bone spike was still ticking; told my raid lead we could just stop for the week and win on technicality with it by lockout
jade abyss
I was single handedly adding like a full raids worth of combat events by doing m...
Lets melt the pcs
severe meadow
Also during mythic prog we bugged out at a wipe once where boss didn't despawn a...
I showed up to CT pad
novel storm
Guys whats the point on opener to cast double garrote on same target? Wont second one extend for only one global duration?
spice surge
!pandemic
prisma monolithBOT
Pandemic takes up to 30% of the duration of a applied dot/buff and adds it to your new applied one. The duration depends on the new instance.
Example: Garrote (18 sec) can be extended by up to 5.4 seconds from an existing instance.
Note: Pandemic applies to most but not all debuffs/buffs
sacred oyster
i think iirc its like adds 6 seconds so itll get both your garrote and ambush (if done around 4-5s) at around 30s so in sync
plush umbra
!pandemic
small nitpick, isn't the explanation in the command slightly wrong? It specifies that it takes 30% of the duration of the currently applied buff and adds it to the new one, which in practice is the same for garrote, but not the same for rupture
spice surge
"The duration depends on the new instance."
grizzled mist
i apologize in advance since this question has probably already been asked a million times; hows Assassination looking long term in the season based on current tuning/design. do you think its going be a Subtlety early season, then Assassination later again? granted everything will change most likely int he next couple months i know
snow kindle
coral ibex
i apologize in advance since this question has probably already been asked a mil...
nobody knows or can know
tuning will change will expansion release, and then again with the raid release
sacred oyster
i apologize in advance since this question has probably already been asked a mil...
well for the less challenging content does it really matter? i personally wouldnt switch specs like that.
royal lantern
well, subs speciality is still "do BIG burst dmg really fast", and that tends to be good for the first few weeks of mythic raiding where that stuff still matters
but as ussual, it only really matters for a handfull of people
when you have stuff that needs to get killed fast and your team struggles with it, chances are really really really REALLY high its because half the raid doesnt swap targets, and not because a singular person is not swapping to a spec that is somewhat better suited for it 
frosty cedar
i apologize in advance since this question has probably already been asked a mil...
In my cope, I think that spatter was gatekeeping assa from having peak gigachad ST, so with it being gutted, if our aoe / cleave is wank, that should open the door to them tuning us well in ST (which is what I enjoy personally over cringe AOE)
I've only just gotten to grips with the new changes tho so may be wrong
severe meadow
In my cope, I think that spatter was gatekeeping assa from having peak gigachad ...
Yeah but then they buffed FOK and caustic back up a little
coral ibex
assa was peak gigachad ST before prepatch tho
severe meadow
Tuning has been odd this past month or so
severe meadow
assa was peak gigachad ST before prepatch tho
Execute phase 
keen reef
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
shy axle
do you use DM on pull on salhadar or just kb and save dm for the dragon because he dies so fast?
glad snow
So Is this actually buffed to 23% instead of 18% or is this a tooltip error ?
spice surge
Fatebound has a talent that buffs it by 5%
glad snow
Oh ok ty
viscid spear
Or am i coming home disappointed again
You play Rogue, you shouldn't know the difference between disappointment and contentment
solar wyvern
Im an optimist
I come home
"I hope something good for rogue!"
I get slapped by 8%
"Its okay we were strong"
I get slapped by power pot nerf
"I wasnt really having fun with puzzlebox sub anyway" (i was having a lot)
I get slapped with flurry nerf
"Its fine our dances are still strong"
Surely they dont hit sub again
(Or they do and i play assa 8))))
severe meadow
Who knows at this point
royal lantern
you know, its weird that FoK says "applying your active poisons at their normal rate"
spice surge
Better to look at caustic, but im fairly sure they didnt apply it to beta
royal lantern
like, that implies that there are things that applie poisons at a higher or lower rate
uneven plume
idk where it is
spice surge
Then its in 
solar wyvern
solar wyvern
U can drop apex 4 in small pull dungeons for 2x scent
uneven plume
0 energy incoming
solar wyvern
U can do fatebound as well
uneven plume
were playing 2% crit talent?
solar wyvern
That was his cook ye, secondary poisoning and crit talent
1000/750/500 crit/haste/mast
Apparently it sims really good so idk
I didnt get to test much
I gotta say tho DS fok and ct
Slap really hard with ftb
uneven plume
yah never
not taking tricks in m+ in general is nasty work
dont care who said what
solar wyvern
Ye fatebound will definitely feel better on the overall and gameplay
solar wyvern
Also pure st fatebound is lit
No u ct everything
Its just mathematically correct apparently
frigid pond
Also pure st fatebound is lit
Go stream)
lethal turtle
Let me push FOK
indigo epoch
Mortiz u streaming? Im at work bored af.
uneven plume
Mortiz u streaming? Im at work bored af.
no i dont stream
assa is okay. were only 100k behind UH dk now instead of 200k
progress
late ravine
I'll let you know if he pumps, took shammy and vers buff for him
severe meadow
are we still CT spamming and overcapping?
CT until everything has bleed and then go into envenom
old thistle
severe meadow
@thorn thorn
thorn thorn
severe meadow
<:corncerned:1249439936751468625>
Howâre you pookie
severe meadow
Why do people write like that
I cannot answer this question blue
lean plover
jokes aside that image triggered the fk out of me
uneven plume
@solar wyvern What do we play in AA?
same build?
or we need to pick up sudden demise
solar wyvern
U can drop secondary and play 1x 20% poison damage.
Also a very good DS key
I checked ur log, murder row fish hooks working again is good
Seems nerfed tho
U playing 1 or 2?
Probs want more haste too, 20%ish is what whispyr was mentioning
Sudden demise is bad and also requires too many talent points
balmy condor
Youâre bad
solar wyvern
Pbox or feather, u can activate mastery in aoe and crit in st or stay crit entire key w.e
balmy condor
And I like that ;)
solar wyvern
đ
wise plover
do we know if there is going to be heroic raid week for the first tier of midnight?
wise plover
ty
balmy condor
General
gilded light
Is there an add-on that reminds you of your poisons?
jaunty sky
!shiv
torn dome
any advice on an easy way to know/see when all AOE targets are bleeding and we can FOK like mad? new UI hurts my eyes
rancid nimbus
fuck.. wanted to ask the same thing.. haha
balmy condor
Like genuinely itâs not that deep
No one is holding a gun to your head if you CT one extra time or you miss count and donât bleed some shitter mob you didnât care about in the first place
runic hinge
It'll get easier as the season goes and you know how many mobs the tank is gonna pull as well
spice surge
A lot of pulls theres basically only one big dude you care about anyway
In which case you get max scent stacks
Then envenom away
balmy condor
Your brain is genuinely very good at approximating how many things are in a pile, even at a glance and thatâs good enough
Like the classic how many jelly beans in this jar
Youâre not gonna guess
But you can get pretty close very quickly
spice surge
And more importantly it also doesnt matter much if you get it slightly wrong
But if you had the old addons you could have a WA for it
rancid nimbus
yeah. I had a wa for it.. and .. I guess.. I just miss it.. but if Whispyr says.. I can just guess.. I guess I'll do that then đ
balmy condor
But if you had the old addons you could have a WA for it <:garf_sit:133488942944...
The old pointless WA
spice surge
Yerp
balmy condor
You donât get it I MUST tab target to enemies without garrote or my damage collapses
If I get 12 garrotes instead of 13
The sun explodes
late ravine
new rogue tree looks sick
hazy helm
Your brain is genuinely very good at approximating how many things are in a pile...
Played bleed build last night. Felt great in aoe, until I noticed prio mobs are the last things alive with 50% health left. Poo boss damage too. If you want big zug zug numbers, go for it. Definitely donât think bleed build is going to be the most beneficial for timer in a key though, unless youâre playing with a giga funnel class that can nuke prio. But yeah for reference in a +23, HoA I was around 100kish overall after second boss died. So, the build definitely does damage, we were also like 30 hours behind the timer though.
balmy condor
I donât understand what that has to do with anything that was said
But glad to hear it I guess?
Idk how to react to this information
severe meadow
He dropped a fun fact on you
hazy helm
Bleed build = poo, stop pushing it
hazy helm
Overall damage doesnât = timed keys
balmy condor
Who is pushing bleed build
coral ibex
stop pushing bleed build!!!
balmy condor
Literally no one is taking sudden demise
haughty flicker
I will out of spite
severe meadow
(I assume heâs taking SD with saying bleed build)
coral ibex
whispyr is literally in my dm's offering boosting services for me to evangelize for bleed build rn
balmy condor
Idk what bro is taking to be fair
hazy helm
Ugh ugh ugh
balmy condor
But yes
coral ibex
can you believe it
balmy condor
I will stop pushing bleed build
hazy helm
Pocket sand
coral ibex
you're the face of Big Bleed
hazy helm
Jay is on the boosted list for m+ title, testing complete
lean plover
He was in the list
severe meadow
This dude thinks I push beyond 12s
torn dome
No one is holding a gun to your head if you CT one extra time or you miss count ...
that's what you think
lean plover
but as booster
balmy condor
This is a fever dream
severe meadow
I donât give a frick about m+
hazy helm
Cool talk, bleed build is shit. Moving on
balmy condor
Iâm still lost on what trigged you to talk about bleed build
What bleed build even
mint urchin
No one is talking about it but you? Lmao
hazy helm
Iâm bipolar motherfucker, get with the program
rancid nimbus
How did we get to bleed build from slagging of old wa s ?! đ
severe meadow
Or why youâre semi aggressive about it
balmy condor
What is this imaginary build
balmy condor
How did we get to bleed build from slagging of old wa s ?! đ
I WISH I KNEW
hazy helm
It is known
rancid nimbus
xD This is killing me đ
coral ibex
ye
severe meadow
How much are people buying them for
hazy helm
1.5 mil
balmy condor
All I know is that I need to stop pushing a build that I donât know exists and have not pushed and am not sure what it even means
I can do that I guess
severe meadow
Weâre thinking of selling them tonight
lean plover
do you even push whispyr
haughty flicker
Weâre thinking of selling them tonight
Give me one
severe meadow
Whispyr boosted for title confirmed
hazy helm
Yeah, do you even push
coral ibex
WHATCHU PUSHIN BUD
balmy condor
Huge pusher
haughty flicker
Whispyr pushes it real good
runic hinge
whipyr pushes til kwans work week and then they never play together again so i can get carried
severe meadow
Give me one
Arenât you eu
hazy helm
Like, vagal yourself out on the shitter type pusher?
coral ibex
haughty flicker
Arenât you eu
Ew
runic hinge
69 hp
severe meadow
haughty flicker
Nice
hazy helm
Okay. So, upon reflection,
coral ibex
hazy helm
Arrrrrrrrrrre you really in a key as assa for your aoe damage?
mint urchin
You ain't there for your utility
severe meadow
Well Iâm definitely not there for my ST damage
lean plover
well assa has good aoe
coral ibex
im in a key as assa to get crests and possibly a hero trinket in the first 3-4 weeks
coral ibex
thats the only reason i'm in a key as assa
actually thats the only reason im in a key period
hazy helm
Oh boy. Iâm timing myself out, bye