assassination

[haughty flicker]

real

dont let them gaslight you king

[charred obsidian]

it was meta last time in bfa

[spice surge]

Literal world top keys was done with sub in dragonflight s1

[balmy condor]

“Invisible in Dragonflight”

the strongest rogue has been for almost a decade

[spice surge]

Theres rogues on the frontpage of Tww s2 and tww s1

[balmy condor]

Maybe we just…. Haven’t played the game

[thorn thorn]

Yall are all taking the bait

[spice surge]

Like literal top runs

[lean plover]

sub was good this season, assa was mdi s1, strong s2, amirdrassil s3 outlaw was op, s2 df sub was op

[severe meadow]

Someone get blue name in here

[thorn thorn]

Homie has it all in his head canon

[severe meadow]

THERE HE IS

[lean plover]

or was it s1 for sub

[charred obsidian]

ok im done trolling

[balmy condor]

Thank god

[charred obsidian]

[balmy condor]

I was getting those RFK brainworms

[lean plover]

blue always here

[charred obsidian]

sorry for that, i get them ragebait tingles every now and then

[severe meadow]

Watching over us

[lean plover]

i mean complaining about recent rogue tuning

is way too obvious ragebait

[charred obsidian]

i swear i would have been banned from mage the first 5 minutes

[balmy condor]

Bro have you seen prepatch rogue

[thorn thorn]

Gotta do better

[balmy condor]

That shit is ass

[severe meadow]

I don’t know I can complain a little about mark change

[balmy condor]

Ignored again

Blizzard man wtf

[thorn thorn]

Not just ass, shit straight from the ass

[lean plover]

i dont give 2 shits about prepatch

no one should

[severe meadow]

Pre patch parsing

[charred obsidian]

i only use prepatch to level random classes

[balmy condor]

Yeah but my 1:13 fract parse???

[lean plover]

anyone who is watching prepatch tierlists should be required to touch grass

[thorn thorn]

Should be jailed

[lean plover]

like send blizzard a pic of you outside

[charred obsidian]

i do have one funny thing to share

[lean plover]

or get perma

[thorn thorn]

And so should the people making them

All tierlists are slop

[balmy condor]

Isn’t that what discord is doing

Verify you touch grass

[charred obsidian]

Petko said in his latest "difficulty" tier list that assa is a top 3 hardest melee dps in game

lmao

[balmy condor]

Petko tierlist

[severe meadow]

For what reason

[lean plover]

no they verifying if you are over 18 so you can see nsfw content

[charred obsidian]

i think you should listen to his explaination yourself

[lean plover]

and if you look at nsfw content in discord you should go touch a boob irl

[balmy condor]

We’re losing half of this channel

[lean plover]

no jokes

[balmy condor]

I think I’m not clicking a petko tierlist I thought you said you’re done trolling

[runic hinge]

I just got here and I’m ready to troll

[charred obsidian]

i am its literally what he said himself

[spice surge]

Sub is the easiest id imagine?

[lean plover]

petko was doing his tierlist saying assa bleeds 5 targets

which is not true

[thorn thorn]

Petko is just a dumbass

And people think he isnt

[charred obsidian]

after ret i believe he said yes

[thorn thorn]

Almost like mind control

[lean plover]

he tries specs, he doesnt go enough in depth to objectively rank

[charred obsidian]

i think its funny to listen to what others say

[balmy condor]

Why would I willingly click on a petko tierlist

[severe meadow]

https://tenor.com/view/jonah-hill-no-chill-out-bro-nah-fam-gif-16233135

[charred obsidian]

comedy is nice

[balmy condor]

Out of my own desires as a man?

I was given free will and that was my choice?

Hell naw

[spice surge]

He had a video talking about how braindead sub was after forgetting to apply the deathstalker mark for an entire pack

[charred obsidian]

lol

peak

[balmy condor]

It was a prank bro :)

[lean plover]

Tbf you have to respect the man, tierlists before an expansion/patch give good af money, and at least hes the only one actualy trying the specs

[thorn thorn]

Yea

no

Not giving petko any credit

[lean plover]

so many tierlists are i havent seen many so b tier

at least he tries the specs

even if he doesnt go enough in depth

[thorn thorn]

He has done more damage to the community than.........

A lot of people

[lean plover]

lets be honest

the community is brainrot

if not petko tierlists they would be at yoda tierlists

[severe meadow]

I only get my tier lists from the forums

[lean plover]

or marcelian tierlists

[thorn thorn]

Ya, and its because people dont know how much of a fucking idiot he is

[severe meadow]

Everything else is slop

[lean plover]

or my grandma tierlists

[balmy condor]

What is “trying” a spec if you’re playing it for 20 minutes in a key you’re getting carried through and not understanding shit

[balmy condor]

These guys actually play the specs what kinda yap

[lean plover]

the only valid tierlist opinion is demo is op

idk whispyr i watch 1 tierlist when im turbo bored

sometimes i compare them for fun

[humble verge]

how are you this fine evening @balmy condor

[severe meadow]

Blue name you’re losing street cred rn

[balmy condor]

I know marcelian’s legit because they actually reach out to theorycrafters and people to check their info

[thorn thorn]

I made a tierlist of which specs I invite to keys based on the people that typically play them

[lean plover]

i retire my stance on marcelian then

[worldly sail]

i only like tierlists that are generated by a tierlist generator generated by claude

[lean plover]

gotta admit when you are wrong

[thorn thorn]

I like tierlists that are very obviously memes

[balmy condor]

I’m “meh”

Are you kidding me

After what we had?

[severe meadow]

Nearly brick key

[lean plover]

jay give me your favorite tierlist maker

[haughty flicker]

you're below every warlock

[severe meadow]

I literally don’t know any tier list maker

[thorn thorn]

Sorry daddy, tell the pug sin players to be better

[haughty flicker]

thats rough

[lean plover]

thats not a valid answer

[haughty flicker]

yeah fuu is my favorite tier list maker

[severe meadow]

I didn’t even know people were dedicated to making tier lists

[lean plover]

they are

[thorn thorn]

[keen spruce]

[lean plover]

tierlists make a lot of views

[thorn thorn]

You almost got me on this one ngl

[keen spruce]

u know i keep that thang on me

[lean plover]

but deciding mains based on 3 months before patch tierlists

is a choice

[thorn thorn]

@severe meadow Make a tierlist of what specs you are most likely to invite to keys

I want to see your answer

[severe meadow]

I will after drive

[lean plover]

theres also this weird spreadsheet

[keen spruce]

unnnnaaaa

[severe meadow]

3 1/2 hours

[lean plover]

ranking st dps for raid

which makes 0 fucking sense

[severe meadow]

[lean plover]

and i hate it

st sims i mean

[spice surge]

@balmy condor Smh my head havent even pinned the changes posted 5 minutes ago

[pliant remnant]

good one

[vivid elm]

sin buffs

saved?

[severe meadow]

Evoker would def be at the bottom in the “freaks” rank

[pliant remnant]

SIN BUFFS?!

[lean plover]

for prepatch

[safe frigate]

You wouldn't invite me? :(

[pliant remnant]

https://giphy.com/gifs/usagi-chiikawa-hachiware-f6v1HAqfj2svgGAqh9

[severe meadow]

FoK buff holy

And caustic back

[lean plover]

inviting a dev is starting your key with 2 minutes less in the timer

[glass moon]

any advise for beginner rogue ? ? going to be play a Haranir rogue

[thorn thorn]

If I seen you then yes

Otherwise no augs

Too many bad experiences with augs doing tank damage on logs

[pliant remnant]

https://giphy.com/gifs/abe-simpson-YnmEsq9ICSYQ8

[safe frigate]

I actually main spec aug. :3

[lean plover]

okay so you deserve gulag

but your name is blue

[safe frigate]

[thorn thorn]

[lean plover]

so ill spare you

[thorn thorn]

You take that back

[safe frigate]

Bless.

[thorn thorn]

Daylea is the discord kitten all aug players aspire to be

(she is stealing their parses)

[runic hinge]

She is carrying the key

[lean plover]

if her name is blue i will respect her

[thorn thorn]

I recommend respecting daylea anyway cuz daylea got contacts

She can make you disappear if necessary

[balmy condor]

Prepatch Tuning on the 17th

AoE damage go up by about 4-5% , Single target go up by basically nothing

Ping @spice surge for any questions regarding the tuning and he will be more than happy to answer

[spice surge]

Thanks bud

[lean plover]

@spice surge why is this prepatch tuning and not beta tuning

[safe frigate]

This is not true, I have no power..

[lean plover]

i need my weekly dopamine hit

[severe meadow]

@spice surge why not ST buff

[balmy condor]

beta is a release candidate so it's on a freeze

[pliant remnant]

Glad they are keeping the tyranny of Sub down

[thorn thorn]

@spice surge Is caustic spatter back

[spice surge]

No, long live the bleed king

[lean plover]

but i need adrenaline whispyr

[thorn thorn]

[safe frigate]

@spice surge Hope you are having a good day.

[thorn thorn]

We both know this is a lie

[marble hemlock]

cant wait to see what pre-patch changes they revert with the expac launch because of shoddy version control

[haughty flicker]

[spice surge]

Theres a bug for sub that makes some of the clones do like 3x the damage they should thats only active on the prepatch but not on the beta

Is that gonna get fixed? Who knows

[marble hemlock]

maybe youll get that one back with launch

[humble verge]

@spice surge

[thorn thorn]

@spice surge Is it worth learning sub or is spec doomage

(Actual question for once)

[spice surge]

Subs ST seem mid

[balmy condor]

I literally just said that in guild chat

[spice surge]

AoE should still be solid, even after nerf

[lean plover]

Does the fok buff change ct rules tho

I assume not

[haughty flicker]

[balmy condor]

most likely no but I guess there's a chance you hit FoK instead of CT if you're giga energy

instead of burning it off

[marble hemlock]

[thorn thorn]

Maybe I just swap to rogue instead of devo

[severe meadow]

Yeah come raid with us on rogue

But keep in mind..

I’m on the raid council and loot council

[lean plover]

id rather burn it

[lean plover]

BECOME ONE OF US

[thorn thorn]

I will not accept being your discord kitten in exchange for loot

[lethal turtle]

Sin needs the WW dev team

[thorn thorn]

I have standards

I would do it for free

[lethal turtle]

87% FOF increase

[thorn thorn]

Am normally ranged player

[lean plover]

funny enough i didnt know what to play this tier so i spinned the wheel

and got assa

my fate is sealed

[severe meadow]

I usually change every expansion but I’m sticking to rogue

I love the gang

[balmy condor]

hilariously I don't think it's a big enough buff to push that button

[thorn thorn]

Might retire the lizard for a bit and play rogue instead as my alt

[lethal turtle]

Surely they killed the FOFlessness build

[thorn thorn]

Dont tell daylea

[lean plover]

someone check ww pins

[lethal turtle]

Looks like demo and arcane got BTA'd

[balmy condor]

probably

but like

FoF giga up

RSK giga down

[haughty flicker]

i never go to the monk discord but wtf is this

[balmy condor]

maybe you just don't press RSK?

[royal lantern]

zenith stomp was basically a AoE taunt

cus you do it early and its a Nuke

[lean plover]

did ww hate fofless?

[lethal turtle]

Yes wtf lol

[balmy condor]

ww hate themselves

[lethal turtle]

ww aoe will be good for sure now

[royal lantern]

WW without FoF is like assa without Envenom lol

[lethal turtle]

no idea what their st will look like

[lean plover]

no clue man, never played ww

[thorn thorn]

Big true

Tree is very confused rn

[royal lantern]

its literally THE WW skill man

[worldly sail]

WW rework idea: rename it to wind waker instead of windwalker

https://klipy.com/gifs/toon-link-wind-waker

[jade igloo]

Which one of you paid off Blizz to pump assa?

[pliant remnant]

Rename it to Windwanker instead of Windwalker

[lean plover]

whispyr, hes the lead guide writer for wowhead so if you have any question about any spec you can ping him in any discord

[pliant remnant]

Copium overload

[lethal turtle]

FoF is like all their aoe and SCK massive buff

[thorn thorn]

https://tenor.com/view/copium-copium-od-copium-overdose-overdose-twitch-gif-9006779378751968406

[jade igloo]

I knew it was him, single-handedly wrecking outlaw

[lean plover]

yep

he was having way too much fun on outlaw

[balmy condor]

brother don't put this whole "pump ass" narrative on me

[lean plover]

so he bribed devs

[haughty flicker]

https://klipy.com/gifs/rock-one-eyebrow-raised-rock-staring-1

[balmy condor]

[crude helm]

Pumping ass

I’m listening

[burnt venture]

are we back lads?

were we ever gone?

[obsidian oracle]

is assa exposing outlaw and sub now?

coffezilla type

[lean plover]

classic assa experience of getting buffed at the same time the other specs get nerfed

becoming the best rogue spec

this is the adrenaline i needed

[pliant remnant]

Give Sub another 8% aura nerf and Assa an 8% aura buff

[lean plover]

buff kingsbane by 60%

[thorn thorn]

Buff KB by 600 morbillion percents

[haughty flicker]

true

[jade igloo]

15% outlaw aura buff should help assa

[thorn thorn]

[jade igloo]

[pliant remnant]

[severe meadow]

@balmy condor did you expect a funny aoe buff?

[balmy condor]

I didn't expect anything to be fair

[burnt venture]

that's the best thing lol

[severe meadow]

I just didn’t expect more aoe tuning tbh

[split veldt]

someone tell me if i should be dooming or not

im still playing ass regardless tho

[royal lantern]

always doom

[split veldt]

[lean plover]

st still shit in beta no? In dungeons

[elfin flame]

Bro quit pumping ass

[lean plover]

why mage main here

[severe meadow]

It’s not great

[split veldt]

https://giphy.com/gifs/arielle-m-pump-it-up-3o6Zt9y2JCjc450T3q

[lean plover]

good, i need lore accurate assa

[elfin flame]

Mage nuked I am now classless

[pliant remnant]

No more mage mains after today...

[balmy condor]

I'm fucking pumping ass bro

[lean plover]

i need people asking whispyr about m+ st

and cooking builds

[spice surge]

Do they have a number yet

How nuked it is

[lean plover]

that makes whispyr despair and doom about his existance

[pliant remnant]

@balmy condor what haste % do I need to do good boss damage in keys sir

[split veldt]

i guess tuning doesnt matter until max level, then i'll go doomer mode

[elfin flame]

No ppl speculating 20% but it's some napkin math

For spellslinger arcane

[severe meadow]

20%

[spice surge]

Ye i saw ~15% for demo too

[spice surge]

Big swings for sure

[balmy condor]

Bro leave me alone today is NOT a good day

[thorn thorn]

Off to the glue factory with them

[balmy condor]

I'm getting my ass chapped

no pumping here

[haughty flicker]

reverse sweep

trust

[balmy condor]

I get second every race

I went 1-4

[haughty flicker]

[balmy condor]

it's chill

they're all bitchless whales

obviously

[winged gust]

LOL wow

[formal heart]

i really love warrior discord pastas

u know why enh never gets nerfed? cos their discord is fucking DEAD and doesnt have 5 turboautists simming every single variable every single hour of the day, THEY FLY UNDER THE RADAR meanwhile our buff gets annoucned and 5 minutes later we got a full scientific paper detailing how its a 11.959185% buff with 0% margin of error u did this to yourselves. the nerf is because of hubris.... you people were not satisfied with being a strong spec. You had to rub it in everyone's faces. You're autistic, period. HUMAN NATURE dictates that you will be jealous of your neighbour if he has more than you, so why do you RUB all those insane sims in other classes' faces? here and all over wowhead? What did you expect to happen? that shit ass warlocks would look on those numbers and be like "oh good for them"? so fucking dumb

[solar wyvern]

Welcome home buddy

[haughty flicker]

its an old meme but it checks out

[lean plover]

they nerfed arms

wtf

[formal heart]

last tuning they nerfed arms st and buffed aoe, now they just nerfed aoe

balance in all things

[lean plover]

at least in m+ their st is dogshit

a pity

i love arms mains

they are gigachads

[balmy condor]

I hit a retry and went 4-1 instead

[haughty flicker]

[jade igloo]

[solar wyvern]

Alright someone tell me is flying daggers worth it now that fok is buffed

[balmy condor]

[solar wyvern]

Hehehehe

[balmy condor]

secondary poisoning when?

[solar wyvern]

When???

Avulsion stocks rising

[balmy condor]

just needs like a.... 300%? buff

[lean plover]

avulsion gang rejoice

[solar wyvern]

Btw whispyr 1/2 scent still goes to 20% if u have 10 ruptures right?

[obsidian oracle]

An avulsion fracture occurs when a ligament or tendon pulls a piece of bone away from the main bone, often during sudden, high-force athletic movements or due to chronic, repetitive stress

dark blizz

[solar wyvern]

We all have chronic repetitive stress here

[balmy condor]

yes

[solar wyvern]

Okay new mission for tuesday

[tall jay]

Chronic something or other

[solar wyvern]

10 mob pulls at all times including bosses

Make assa great again

[desert salmon]

assa buffed

[rare stone]

ass or sub? also what rogue spec we going?

[bright turret]

its pre patch, kill boss in 90 seconds, log off

[balmy condor]

or if the question is for beta, we don't know because it's another 5 weeks until any content exists

[severe meadow]

Only for us, you got nerfed actually

[winged gust]

wait why 5 weeks? isnt midnight coming in like 2

[balmy condor]

yeah and then what

[desert salmon]

I expected caustic buff 5 percent more at least though

[balmy condor]

sorry it's actually 6

[desert salmon]

Raid opens 5 weeks later i think

[severe meadow]

We up parsing in heroic dungeons

[winged gust]

oh.

i forgot mythic comes out way later

my bad

[balmy condor]

what is best spec for heroic week before they tune everything ahead of mythic release

[obsidian oracle]

https://tenor.com/view/why-cry-why-pepe-why-why-pepe-cry-pepe-pepe-cry-gif-5847161834541812219

[desert salmon]

It is long time to wait for mythic opens

[balmy condor]

don't worry

[barren yarrow]

Arcane everything

[balmy condor]

you will be told what to farm on 156 different alts

for 10 extra crests

[buoyant herald]

larias will guide our degeneracy as surely as the sun shall rise

[barren yarrow]

i legit have one alt and thats tough to farm for sometimes... Imagine being top 5 RWF lol. Shits a whole job, literally.

[rare stone]

Can we get daily updates on best spec up until mythic release tuning?

[balmy condor]

yeah I'll set up a slot machine you can pull

[rare stone]

Thankyou, I literally cannot function without being told what to do on the daily

[frank trench]

Idk what state assa is in im maining by far one of the best designed class specs in midnight. ❤️

[frigid pond]

Are the new changes already in beta?

[balmy condor]

which new changes

the ones for the 17th?

[frigid pond]

Yes

[balmy condor]

no, they should be on the beta on the 17th

[frigid pond]

Thx

[winged sun]

NICE ASSA BUFFS

!!

[thorn thorn]

Oh Zeross is back

[ember mural]

@runic hinge

[charred marten]

If kb desyncs by 15s or more is it better to just hold it in m+?

[sharp viper]

why is there another prepatch tuning

https://klipy.com/gifs/why-huh-1

[haughty flicker]

because its also beta tuning

just not on beta

[sharp viper]

fair

I'm so confused, I usually don't have to read about rogue changes in more than every other patch notes

why are you making me read

https://klipy.com/gifs/president-not-to-read-1

[winged gust]

welp atleast theyre somewhat noticing rogue

[barren yarrow]

cant finish my talent tree for ST...

dont know if im doing anything wrong or if its a bug but just FYI

[balmy condor]

the gate moved

you can't have that many points in the bottom anymore

[barren yarrow]

ohhh weird

[barren yarrow]

pre patch stuff

[balmy condor]

no that's the new gate

for midnight

[barren yarrow]

oh ok ok

i did the export and still gated

[balmy condor]

from where did you exporty

[barren yarrow]

archon....

[balmy condor]

serves you fucking right

[barren yarrow]

https://tenor.com/view/silicon-valley-big-head-i-suck-kinda-suck-gif-4019930

[jolly stirrup]

Hi good mornin love yall bye

[snow hamlet]

Why does CT still get 1 CP even though i didn't hit any targets?

funny

[jolly stirrup]

Bug Feature

[static glacier]

@spice surge hey, where’s the outlaw changes

[elfin flame]

yo is it better to keep spammin CT in AoE if there are mobs that don't have bleeds on them than it is to use a finisher

[balmy condor]

[elfin flame]

like u hit max cps and keep slamming CT to apply bleeds

[balmy condor]

hell no

[elfin flame]

but like rupture does more dam than ur envenom would

• caustic

prob

[balmy condor]

yeah but you're still getting that rupture

you're getting it legit the next gcd

[elfin flame]

but think like

algethar first pull

25 mobs or smth

so many CTs that are being pushed back behind envenoms

[balmy condor]

the question isn't whether the rupture does more, the question is whether you are getting more damage on that GCD than the combo points + envenom are worth

in big pulls it's arguably even worse

because caustic is hitting everything

and CT is still only spreading to 2

[elfin flame]

right

hm

ive still managed to convince myself this could be an angle

[balmy condor]

I'm willing to sim it, but I don't understand how it would be possible

[elfin flame]

that with sufficient mobs, if you're spreading garrote + rupture to two of them, presumably near full duration

its more damaging than envenom + caustic, if it means that's 2 extra bleeds you get out for the pull

because the pull would otherwise die before the sequence of globals where you CT -> envenom would allow you to get the CTs out in time

within reason, so if the mobs are dying in like 5s you should definitely envenom (no sudden demise)

maybe im cooked it was a thought

[balmy condor]

yah will check

[minor bloom]

Is the next round of tuning on the 17th going to have any real impact?

[jolly stirrup]

Also @spice surge answer this mans/womans question

[static glacier]

While the mobs are being gathered and aren’t stacked for spatter to cleave on any significant number it could be an angle, I HIGHLY doubt it would be worth otherwise though

[runic hinge]

Xoxo

[bleak stone]

Hi there, where can i find the latest m+ build?

[jolly stirrup]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Guides:

• WoWhead - by Whispyr
• Method - by Whispyr
• Icy Veins - by Seliathan

[bleak stone]

ty

[jolly stirrup]

Also #assassination-faq

[lean plover]

!bugs

Blue is sad

[keen tree]

hello all - i been afk for months now and haven't really been a rogue main since the days they were called rouge. How is sin? Is it fun to play now days? Is it still annoying af when tanks chain pull?

i never liked the other rogue specs so it really comes down to sin or something else for me.

[calm grail]

If you like Sin, tuning isn't final. I think Sin plays better than it ever has. Energy feels a bit slow, but it's good.

So play what you like!

[vernal adder]

[severe meadow]

WHO hurt blue

[pliant remnant]

Rogue used to be called the French word for "red"?

[lean plover]

Bug command not working

its working on blue channel

why is blue channel not purple channel

who decided that

[pliant remnant]

Some dastardly villain, no doubt

The Shadows are hogging all the purple

[lean plover]

it was koffing

for sure

he wanted to be purple bc koffing is purple

[pliant remnant]

[keen kite]

hello there, due to buffs on assa, what u think is it gonna be good to play in m+? for solo player (pugs)

[jolly stirrup]

Spec wise? Or hero talent

[keen kite]

spec

[jolly stirrup]

Idk

I play Assa because thats what I know

[keen kite]

i played 1 key on pre patch and energy is pain ...

draining alltime

i did not play War within. but i have been playing on dratgonflight last season it was way smoother than now..

[lean plover]

well theres like 6 weeks left for m+ to start

there will be quite a bit more tuning up to that point

so no one knows

[desert salmon]

Bunch of new tunings waiting

[lean plover]

so much weekly dopamine left

[ornate kelp]

Damage numbers won't change how energy regen feels though

[grim jay]

the whole energy loop depends on the apex talents

and we dont have them in the prepatch

[grim jay]

^

[lean plover]

Well the energy regen is slow on purpose

To each their own, i like it

[broken chasm]

Does anyone have a reliable addon that shows my racials/trinkets/potions?

[royal lantern]

i mean, not really?

the apex talents are not suddenly turning it into endless energy, its slightly more and thats kinda it

[lean plover]

apex is like 10% more energy

[royal lantern]

you get a bit faster back into the envenom loop, thats it

[subtle tundra]

they buffed spatter??

un-be-fucking-liveable

[royal lantern]

varas

shut up

[warm vortex]

Ikr
Can't belive blizzard would do this

[royal lantern]

like, they allready turned assa bleed dmg in aoe up by a huge degree and nuked spater into the ground

they just tune it up a bit again cus they probably went a bit to far with it in their eyes

[grim jay]

doesnt change the fact its still the intended loop else they wouldnt have designed the apex around it ?

[lean plover]

Its a 20% buff to caustic

[grim jay]

also its still more energy so it by definition is less starved than now

[royal lantern]

saying "the whole loop is based on apex talents" is just not REALLY true in that regard cus that sounds as if apex talents will suddenly give huge amounts of energy

thats all

when like, its a small boost to energy

[lean plover]

You count to 5 envenoms stop

5 envenoms stop

[royal lantern]

enough to make it worthwhile to play around, but not enough to make it a really noticable thing

[grim jay]

well it kinda is, because there only is a loop because of the apex talent, no matter how much it might give, since you would otherwise just press buttons until you have the energy for it

there is no quantity tied to it defining the loop

just that it somewhat "creates" it

[lean plover]

The point is that if you dont like how assa energy flows, apex probably wont make enough of a difference

[grim jay]

which might or might not be true

sometimes people complaining about starving energy just lack a feeling of direction

[lean plover]

i disagree, some people want to fill every single gcd which isnt assa case

[grim jay]

which a loop adds, even if it doesnt add much energy/doesnt adress the expressed issue

[lean plover]

but yeah for some people apex will make a difference

but i would put my hand on the fire that for most people that dont like assa energy flow it wont

[grim jay]

its alright to disagree, I'm just talking from experience and its subjective regarding that anyways

I'd just not disregard a spec because of how the gameplay feels in an incomplete state

[lean plover]

well it depends

IF the complains they have is assa not feeling every gcd, then they can disregard the spec with or without apex

which is subjective

My complain would be we dont pool hard enough

[grim jay]

if that is the complain, yes, but what was written above might aswell be a lack of direction/purpose

for many its been a "I'm sitting here dry on energy to wait and for what?" typa deal

[grim jay]

ye same

[frank trench]

My biggest complaint is energy isn’t called mana.

We all have crosses to bear 🐻

[lean plover]

then we would be too similar to mages

and fuck mages

[frank trench]

My biggest complaint is energy isn’t called not holy power

?

[lean plover]

Then we are too similar to the discord closing cringe class

[frank trench]

We’d have to shut ourselves down

[lean plover]

yeah

and all of the 14 rogue players would have no place to meme

we cant allow that

[frank trench]

Hahahahah

Tru tru

[lean plover]

do you know what happens when u unleash whispyr in another discord??

this happens

we need to contain him here

[frank trench]

I logged onto my ret paladin for fun last night and did a floodgate 14 my god the level of 99% peak performance you can hit with zero effort is just incredible

[frank trench]

Hahahahahahah

The fact you had that so quick brings me joy

[lean plover]

its pinned

[frank trench]

Ok more joy now

[lean plover]

in devourer discord

its a reminder that no matter how edgy dhs think they are

whispyr exists

its like, their aspirational goal

[frank trench]

lol hit this bar

Then come back for your true training

[lean plover]

exactly, you got it

if anything energy should be more like rage

bc warrior players are fucking chads

archmtiros is the biggest chad to ever exist

[royal lantern]

"how many interupts did i do this run"

blizzard dmg meter: YES

[ornate kelp]

Blizz dmg meter is such a let down, it's just a shell of what it needs to be it's so useless and details is a buggy mess now, what a shitshow

[spice surge]

Details is just a reskin of the default one

It doesnt do much by itself

(as are all other damage meter addons because they cant do what they used to do)

[shy heron]

also the data it gets is complete garbage

we're in the era of "just log everything"

[spice surge]

Yep

[shy heron]

I should probably reup my wcl sub since I'm just gonna fill my personal calendar with everything I do

[royal lantern]

wdym, i did 0.042811 interupts on Arcane Bolt

[shy heron]

[fleet whale]

this seems minor but I wish the blizz damage meter would color code the different damage types

like nature was green, shadow purple, etc

[keen tree]

Yes - in vanilla people were always looking for a rouge.

[pliant remnant]

Cinemagoers in 2001 were also always looking for a rouge...

[sinful verge]

Do we just run amplifying, deadly, crippling and atrophic all the time?

[lucid rune]

Are we best rogue spec with these inc buffs?

[royal lantern]

if you talent something, you use it

like, why else would you put talent poins into them

(you should swap atrophic for mindnumbing in m+ tbh)

[lean plover]

ive always runned atrophic in keys

except when im doing 12s and i dont trust my tank

[royal lantern]

i mean, mindnumbing makes the key more easy cus you get a bit more time for interupts

and it actually reduces tank dmg by a good chunk

atrophic is only really usefull in the absolute highest key levels where surviving non-avoidable dmg with a sliver of your health actually is a thing

[lean plover]

in 17s i liked atrophic

never pushed beyond that i think

not the highest keys but it was nice

[royal lantern]

eh, in 17s i can see it getting some value

but thats allready a key level that only a few people actually touch

[lean plover]

i think that was back in

october

but i can never play a full season seriously

bc of university

i rly want midnight s2 to be mid summer so i can go all in

[analog field]

Mind numbing especially in pugs is for sure better. Tank is it dying in 17's and cast time is more important

[lean plover]

im not sure, most of my depletes on 17s were random stupid deaths

[analog field]

I mean the only people playing atrophic even in higher keys were pre-made groups that didn't miss a kick

[lean plover]

maybe i should have used numbing yeah

[analog field]

in pugs it's suicidal to let a cast go off for 3% boss dmg on tank

[lean plover]

its whatever, it wouldnt have made me push 18s

but maybe could have made 17 push smoother

[analog field]

probably none of the poisons will make a big difference

[royal lantern]

how many random stupid deaths happend because of them taking normal dmg instead of 97% lol

99% of deaths are because people played a mechanic wrong, ate avoidable dmg or missed interupts

[lean plover]

mostly mechanics wrong

[royal lantern]

mindnumbing is better for tanks

[lean plover]

and the occasional guy doing 0 dps in a huge pull

that drags the pull for too long and wipe

[royal lantern]

less autohits = less tank dmg, and by far most dmg tanks get is autohits

[lean plover]

i still remember a couple of eles doing 0 dmg on priory huge pull

[royal lantern]

like, atrophics value is mostly on the absolute highest pushing keys where the non-avoidable dmg would kill you without it

[lean plover]

using ascendance when 1st boss is at 10% hp is a decision

yeh im not arguing against that tryan

maybe numbing would have made 17s pushing smoother

[analog field]

for attack speed ? yeah didn't think about that

[lean plover]

its whatever now that was like, 5 months ago

somehow i still had champion track gear

[royal lantern]

because you are a champ

[lean plover]

dont make me blush on valentines day tryan

or ill numb your ass

[toxic quartz]

is assassination the easiest rouge spec to play? Looking to try rouge for the first time

[lean plover]

id say subtlety rogue is the easiest atm

[haughty flicker]

i'll agree just to piss off sub rogues

[lean plover]

hey

dont disrespect us blue players bel

[shy heron]

It doesn't even piss off sub rogues because it's objective truth

And if they get pissed off it's because they're little man syndrome brainlets

[haughty flicker]

idk everyone says sub rogue is easy then does half the damage the good ones are doing

[shy heron]

There's still a skill ceiling. The skill floor got way lowered though

[haughty flicker]

but i havent played much rogue myself since prepatch

[lean plover]

thats the case even with bm hunter

the bar isnt high

[haughty flicker]

not to this extent

especially not current bm

lmao

[shy heron]

Probably due to the ridiculous haste requirements of prepatch sub. We went from 0 haste as an ideal to ~35% while we don't have apexes

[haughty flicker]

im talking about beta, they all have access to the same gear

prepatch is clown show, no point talking about whats easier in prepatch when classes are all designed for lvl 90 and apex which we dont have

[fleet whale]

Nah I think we should make Midnight tier lists just based off this pre-patch alone
/s

[haughty flicker]

https://klipy.com/gifs/hello-i-like-money-1

[fleet whale]

But Blizz deciding to use two different builds for the pre-patch and Beta was certainly one of the decisions of all time

[lean plover]

i read earlier that its bc beta is in release candidate

[fresh horizon]

was it numbers from since the prepatch went live that drove the tuning, or was it from beta numbers?

[lean plover]

so they tune in prepatch and merge it on launch

[haughty flicker]

and they did tuning that was specifically meant to be for prepatch but then got merged to beta anyway and then got brought back to prepatch this week

[lean plover]

thats why prepatch tuning includes some apex talent nerfs

[fleet whale]

I hope assassin at level 90 isn't going to be like Shadowlands launch assassin

[fresh horizon]

refresh my memory?

[lean plover]

dogshit

[fresh horizon]

that was inferred

was it energy starved, low damage, ... ?

[fleet whale]

@fresh horizon it struggled to outdps tanks in M+

it was tuned absurdly low

[fresh horizon]

didn't play early shadowlands

thansk for clarifying

if it's just damage being off, I assume it would be easier to fix than energy/synergies being off

[lean plover]

for some reason i cant see the statistics from nathria

[fleet whale]

It's going to be hard to find early SL stats since assassin got a number of aura buffs as time went on in Nathria

[lean plover]

i mean in wlogs

i can see sepulcher

i guess they removed the stats from older ones

or not since i can see legion stats

[fresh horizon]

maybe there just weren't any assassination rogues?

[lean plover]

no this is what i see

[haughty flicker]

shadowlands is slowly being erased from history

[fresh horizon]

poor attempt at a joke on my part

[lean plover]

s1 and s2 at least

[fresh horizon]

the world is healing!

[lean plover]

i liked s3 and s4

[marsh fjord]

Best expansion after legion

[lean plover]

go back to sleep numbers

you need more rem sleep

[marsh fjord]

😄

[lean plover]

to think straight

[marsh fjord]

I genuinely had so much fun on my DK in shadowlands tho

after legion my most played expansion

They would give me PI ony my army cooldown

was so bonkers

[lean plover]

it was the 2nd expansion i bought after legion

i hated s1

i hated sw

s2

i loved s3 and s4, i failed exams bc i was too busy playing wow

[marsh fjord]

s2/s3 wasnt good no. but s1 was such a banger

castle nathria was really goated imo

[lean plover]

i hated covenant restrictions, i hated the maw

[marsh fjord]

Restrictions sucked only if you kept swapping

[lean plover]

i hated fucking disgusting korthia and fucking disgusting shards system

i loved zereth mortis and catalyst

and shadowlands s4 was the first m+ season with old expansion dungeons, that was neat

incredibly fun season imo

s3 had, imo, the worst ever wow storytelling event ever

wdym you forgive a blue mote, and wdym that blue mote is arthas

[marsh fjord]

wow storytelling always suck anyway

some cinematics are cool whats its really whatever

and thats coming from someone that really loves to play story games

[lean plover]

yeah wow storytelling isnt the best

but that was way too bad

it was awful for wow storytelling standards

[latent copper]

do we dont use SnD, cauze i cant see it in any guide? Same with Sub Rogue??

[lean plover]

Theres a passive called cut to the chase

Envenom/eviscerste/dispatch proc and extend snd

[marsh fjord]

Its automated by your finishers

[fleet whale]

well since CT does seem to give CPs when hitting nothing...
You could technically build up some cps before pull, and cast SND so it's up before the fight even starts
for a very microsopic dps gain

[marsh fjord]

I see this qeustion so many times kinda funny to me 😄

[lean plover]

some people dont read the talents when leveling

they follow a guide i guess

not saying is something bad tho

[latent copper]

no thats not. Some ppl come back and jump in and testing out and give questions here. For what are that discords? Sorry...

[lean plover]

i wasnt referring to you specificaly, sorry if it sounded like that

[latent copper]

and yes guides are the startpoint

[marsh fjord]

I mean it's okay to ask those qeustions, we are not saying its bad, its just funny to us

[latent copper]

but ty. now i can see it on Assa 😄

[lean plover]

ive been leveling a couple characters this month and ive leveled like 3 levels in a dungeon, i have definetely missed baseline abilities being added

didnt mean to sound mean

[fleet whale]

tbh it's kind of silly that SnD even still exists as a seperate ability since you almost never cast it

[golden loom]

well in season 1 u had to cast it

[latent copper]

yeah that why i was so confused...it was on my bar like 2 years ago and i could press but didnt understand, why not casting if its a 70% buff

[solar wyvern]

If allowed us to do cancelaura shenanigans on sub rogue last season hehe

[latent copper]

but yeah i guess i should read now all talents

[lean plover]

you cant even gain cdr anymore by pressing it between pulls as sub

[solar wyvern]

U can still cancel aura it on outlaw as well

[lean plover]

the min maxes you can do with snd are so miniscule (if any) that it shouldnt be an active anymore imo

[golden loom]

outlaw freak spec!

[solar wyvern]

Agree lmao

[tight ginkgo]

i remember the infinite snd refresh bug in SL

[lean plover]

feel free to ask if you are confused about any

[latent copper]

ty

[lean plover]

and dragonflight s3 bug, that was cool

[fleet whale]

it's also funny that blizz is legit recylcing class changes
cut to the chase was added as an assassin talent in WOTLK
then in WoD assassin got a perk to make snd passive for assassin (sub and combat still had to cast it)

then in Legion it gets removed for all rogue specs

then it's brought back in SL

[tight ginkgo]

i was in warrior prison at the time (sad)

[lean plover]

i was still a dk otp

[fleet whale]

and then they bring cut to the chase back for just assassin
and now snd just casts and refreshes automically when you use your main finisher

[lean plover]

i played rogue as an alt

df s4 i made the jump to rogue, i love it

[fleet whale]

peak Blizz game design

[golden loom]

peak perfomance looks like this

[fleet whale]

I saw a Reddit post of someone wanting Vendetta to come back

[marsh fjord]

nah it looks like this

[golden loom]

prot

[marsh fjord]

The giga chad of tanks

Those weak prot palas have nothing on me

[lean plover]

whats wrong with vendetta?

legit question when vendetta was a thing i was a turbo casual

[marsh fjord]

Deathmark is a better version of vendetta i think thats why

but its reddit

[fleet whale]

Boring CD. though it was effective

it was just like a 30% damage boost against the target

[golden loom]

wouldnt say deathmark is more interesting

[lean plover]

dm applying poisons twice is cool for kingsbane

i guess it also gives you dmg with lethal dose

since it has a bleed

i do prefer vendetta icon tho

[solar wyvern]

I like deathmark cause i go shlash swash swash and they start bleeding harder

[lean plover]

its kind of a boring cd

but its okay

[haughty flicker]

was*

dm doesnt double bleeds and all that anymore it just makes them do 100% more damage

[lean plover]

it still applies poisons twice

this is fro the beta talent calculator

[haughty flicker]

oh they just changed the bleeds

fair enough

[lean plover]

yp i was confused too

i was searching for dm in wowhead database and i thought it was outdated

[balmy condor]

Well it applies poisons twice

It doesn’t duplicate them

Which is important for amp

[storm forum]

I miss vendetta, it was funny pointing at something and having that make us do 30% extra damage for no other reason

[haughty flicker]

the power of spite

[shy heron]

Vendetta also had azerite powers that let you do nearly criminal things from stealth in opposite faction cities

[lean plover]

is it better to be applied twice or duplicate

in that regard

[shy heron]

I should see if I still have that clip of me nuking lowbies that were flagged in orgrimmar despite never leaving stealth because of nothing personnel

[balmy condor]

Duplicate

[lean plover]

sad

[shy heron]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/179130711511531521/819396404106493982/2020-10-05_10-38-22.mp4?ex=6991d81e&is=6990869e&hm=be315cceef5f92632613d9e1c6fe255a0b8533930964c7bfd89606ce97d1f3f4&

[storm forum]

True evil

[severe meadow]

Happy Valentine’s Day pookies

[amber yoke]

Wait so that means thar the 5% rupture buff will be gone on release if they fuck up?

For example i mean

[royal lantern]

mf gets a heart attack because you point at them

[balmy condor]

In theory it should be fine because there’s no more split development and beta is on the same patch

But weirder things have happened in the past

[royal lantern]

just dont expect a expac launch to be smooth

enjoy the shitshow

[amber yoke]

I'll take any sliver of hope that bleeds will be good. Even if its just 5% rupture dam wich seems hilariously low

[royal lantern]

i mean, bleeds are doing good dmg rn overall

[amber yoke]

Iike if we're skipping a 20% rupture dam talent, a 5% aint gonna mean much right?

[balmy condor]

They’re arguably better than s3 by certain regards

[amber yoke]

Fingers crossed they keep it that way

Maybe theyll have a look at some talent positioning again

For 12.0.5 or smth

Iirc avulsion is in an awkward place atm right?

[balmy condor]

It’s not that awkward

It’s just behind amp poison

Which like is fine

Zoldyck is behind blindside and that doesn’t make much sense either

Or thrown precision behind ct

[amber yoke]

[balmy condor]

Like yeah there’s friction I guess if you want one of them and not the other

But that’s also kinda the point

[royal lantern]

they are both kinda execute talents or smth like that

[amber yoke]

Not taking a 20% buff to rupture will always feel giga shitty to me no matter the reason

[balmy condor]

You can just take it ya know

[amber yoke]

That actually makes sense kinda

[balmy condor]

Like just because shrouded is 0.2% better or whatever

You don’t have to min max like that

[amber yoke]

I guess avulsion and amp poison both buff a finisher

[balmy condor]

Nothing stopping you from taking avulsion

[amber yoke]

Yeah but giving shrouded also kinda blows tho

[lean plover]

Is that .2% post or pre buff

[amber yoke]

Just gimme all talents aight? every single juan

[severe meadow]

I just want a lil KB buff

[balmy condor]

dunno take your pick

Was an irrelevant choice beforehand

[amber yoke]

Mb not doomblade

[balmy condor]

Is still irrelevant now

[amber yoke]

Is KB dmg that "meh"? Like even with apex talents and all?

Sure feels like the button does a lot at least

[fleet whale]

what blizz needs to do is buff secondary poisoning

[amber yoke]

Whots dat?

U mean like DTB?

[fleet whale]

choice node talent under caustic splatter with flying daggers

currently, it's very bad

[amber yoke]

I dont doubt it is, but will buffing it be that exciting?

Does it enable smth im not seeing?

[fleet whale]

it could be kind of fun if it worked with AoE abilities
but every bad talent needs an advocate, so I'm gonna advocate for secondary poisoning

[thorn thorn]

Alexa roll the sim of the lowest simming talent combo being within 5%

[balmy condor]

Nah you can go much lower

You can troll on purpose

But like

Any builds with reasonable picks are probably within 3-6%

[lean plover]

Well 6% is a fuck ton

[balmy condor]

Yeah well in m+ you could argue for some cooked shit

[lean plover]

What cooked shit

Whats the cook

I need to know this recipe whispyr

[balmy condor]

Like you could do no dashing and then take sudden demise

Because you’re like

Fucked in the head

[lean plover]

Yeah i dont hate myself

[balmy condor]

And that’s like -6%

[thorn thorn]

[lean plover]

Shindigg used to play no dtb and sd

In beta

[balmy condor]

Yeah he’s just trying shit

[lean plover]

Misspelled dont start typing

[balmy condor]

That’s at least something

[lean plover]

I know

[balmy condor]

No dtb is the most reasonable thing

[lean plover]

Thats the point of beta

To try things

[thorn thorn]

How terrible is the node under KB

I forgor the name

[royal lantern]

its played rn in prepatch

[balmy condor]

It’s aight but falls off in aoe

[lean plover]

whats the difference bw these

[solar harbor]

so im currently trying to get comfortable with both assa and outlaw, but on assa im a but curious as to why we would take Canny Strikes over Internal bleeding. Is 2% percent crit chance really stronger than the guarenteed extra bleed?

[solemn gale]

I would guess because you can really only stun one enemy at a time for a wimpy bleed + you can't stun bosses, or you can be marginally more efficient in both aoe and st. More efficient overall to get the 2% crit; I wish both were different.

[solar harbor]

this is true but it also works on rupture

so its another bleed on top of rupture. But if the 2 percent is really worth then thats what ill go with! Ty!!

[deep snow]

and it also spreads with CT

[lean plover]

more crit=more combo points

[solar harbor]

ah ok! Ty all for the help

[balmy condor]

you can think of the bottom one as being an energy talent, where as the top is more damage

kinda

[lean plover]

thats how i view it

[balmy condor]

but the bottom is better atm

[lean plover]

i kinda thoight top one was a 95% uptime 5% buff

is bottom one that big?

[balmy condor]

the bottom one is adding a bunch of extra envenoms and enabling apex easier

I haven't checked it on beta in a bit with energy changes

but yeh

[lean plover]

i see

thanks as always

the conclusion is nerf envenom duration

[balmy condor]

always has been

[solar harbor]

Is there anything in particular i can do to help my energy or do we just always hit a point if the fight goes to long where we are kinda starved?

[balmy condor]

Be like that

Apex talent adds some gameplay

[solar harbor]

gotchaa!

[thorn thorn]

Nerf envenom duration and lean harder into pooling

[lean plover]

YES

pooling and clipping envenoms

i thought that was the goal when they said they wanted assa to pool and i was excited

[thorn thorn]

Pool and resource management

94% uptime on envenom

[lean plover]

yeah

no bueno

[balmy condor]

Season 1 btw

[lean plover]

[thorn thorn]

Oh so it gets higher as xpac goes on then

Sick pooling gameplay blizzard ty

[lean plover]

df s3 gameplay

would have been great

[balmy condor]

Yeah more haste more crit right

[tight ginkgo]

What's past 100% uptime

[thorn thorn]

101%

Duh

[tight ginkgo]

[lean plover]

once you reach 100% uptime you transcend, and now haste does make you a 80 apm spec

[hardy rapids]

is assa back

or are we cooked still

never thought i'd ever switch up on my day 1 pick but raid wise its looking bleak

[humble verge]

blizzard and assa

[balmy condor]

Was it previously cooked?

It’s been fine

[humble verge]

i am cooked

[hardy rapids]

i mean there was this

and even in prepatch (I know its prepatch and no apex talents and such) im not getting any dps where on sub and outlaw I can get nearly 20k-30k more on aoe

I'm hella dooming and just getting into mythic raiding so I dont want to commit to assa if I cant get high on the meters. even if my parses are good it wouldnt matter if im still low on the charts you know?

[humble verge]

just play sub then

[hardy rapids]

What ive been doing but I still gravitate towards assa naturally

as its always what I've played

[balmy condor]

You can’t look at prepatch, you have to look at beta and during testing it was fine

Mix of sub/assa

[hardy rapids]

I'll take your word for it

[balmy condor]

Looking at prepatch is like looking at season 2 tuning for season 3

[humble verge]

wdym

prepatch numbers are real numbers

[hardy rapids]

are the apex talents that impactful on the beta?

[humble verge]

probably yeah

[snow kindle]

there are not because of scaling

[humble verge]

no they are real wdym

[snow kindle]

Are you worrying about preptach or midnight

[humble verge]

im not worrying about either

im just ragebaiting

and being bad at it

[hardy rapids]

[thorn thorn]

Man

That wasnt even like

Low effort

You somehow put less than 0 effort into that one

[potent oak]

Isn't the highest key on beta completed by an Assassination rogue +18? And sub is like +21?

[marsh fjord]

Everybody that thinks tuning matters in current wowcycle lives in a forest without trees.

[balmy condor]

He said raid btw

Also sub in m+ is actually so insano cringe lowkey

People get rock hard for funnel and prio damage but then sub presses black powder 37 thousand times and tops the meters

And people go crazy about how strong it is

[snow kindle]

also unkillable

[balmy condor]

First single target ability in this list

Is fucking coup

[honest oxide]

are there any sim charts for midnight yet

[balmy condor]

No, there’s barely even sims

Half the specs aren’t implemented and there’s like 1/3rd of the trinkets missing

[honest oxide]

im not too worried about other classes

just want to know what i am likely to be playing in raid next season

ass dont look too bad so far on beta

[pliant remnant]

bro play

whatever