discipline warlock
#assassination
lean plover
flint tusk
Yeh, guys a bit of an amateur. seem to be in it for the power only.
marsh fjord
No it's monkadin
lean plover
cant wait for a whispyr video talking about how wowhead writers should be treated like celebrities
bc they have the real power
frank trench
All they should make a healer monk that meeles to heal people but instead of kicking mobs you have to kick life into your friends big brain idea
Could be called kickweaving
balmy condor
no it comes with more money and making @bleak sleet my bitch
bleak sleet
yes dear 
balmy condor
love you pookie bear
lean plover
is it true voodoo can fit more than 16 toes in his mouth at once?
bleak sleet
bleak sleet
is it true voodoo can fit more than 16 toes in his mouth at once?
probably but ive never tried
drifting cloud
would an average foot be 5.x toes or 4.x toes
spice surge
Surely losing a toe is more common than having an extra
drifting cloud
I cant say for sure!
lean plover
yeah its 4.x more likely
like avg arms per human is less than 2
thats why average is shitty
haughty flicker
its also more likely to lose multiple toes than it is to have multiple extra toes
average is definitely below 5
frank trench
Surely losing a toe is more common than having an extra
I mean diabeetus is more common than more toes so yeah it has to be.
I think toe amputation are the number one amputation
frank trench
Yeah i would guess it has to be
So many people have vascular issues as they age or get the beetus and do nothing
lean plover
yeah apparently vasc diseases are the leading cause
and what is the beetuus
diabetes
i guess?
cursive copper
Reset the talents again D:
frank trench
It’s a Wilfred Brimley boomer meme
cursive copper
Does anyone have any recommended build after this reset?
lean plover
i dont even know who he is
final void
its just rogue side... assassination is pretty much the same
lean plover
but thats a wild boomer name
balmy condor
Does anyone have any recommended build after this reset?
guides are good
would recommend guides
static glacier
Don’t believe him @cursive copper - there’s partisan interest
balmy condor
I don't even get paid by the click!
I just get paid!
I didn't even say which guide
cursive copper
Relax guys
balmy condor
lean plover
is the salary good?
balmy condor
it's aight
lean plover
like, can you make a living out of it?
balmy condor
depends on what a living means to you I guess
but yeah
it's not lavish by any means
but it's good enough
flint tusk
No more garage man? 😮
final void
Assa still feels pretty bad anyways
lean plover
enough for you to afford water?
flint tusk
Doesn't need water he's a rogue
lean plover
i always had the impression that wowhead paid very very little
final geode
How is assassination rogue raid damage looking now post buff
spice surge
enough for you to afford water?
Water? In this economy? Are you crazy? Fairly sure he can only afford monsters
final void
How is assassination rogue raid damage looking now post buff
bad
lean plover
my pookie needs a water sponsor so badly
final geode
No way it's bad still. All I saw was increased and figured they were top dog
final void
its bad
and most rogue at this point are still forced to play sub cause we got daggers!
lean plover
but tbf water brands in usa have to be so lame
severe meadow
No way it's bad still. All I saw was increased and figured they were top dog
The increases weren't like
onyx scroll
I want to like Arcui, but man am I horrible at building it out
severe meadow
that much tbf
severe meadow
what manner of ragebait is this
lean plover
its prepatch anywya
orchid eagle
sorry to be one of those ppl but any idea if sin overtakes sub for raid content in pre patch?
severe meadow
what are you doing for it to matter that much in pre patch
balmy condor
sorry to be one of those ppl but any idea if sin overtakes sub for raid content ...
probably not but there is legit not one theorycrafter that is doing work for prepatch
orchid eagle
probably not but there is legit not one theorycrafter that is doing work for pre...
ty for answer
frank trench
I want to like Arcui, but man am I horrible at building it out
You will get used to it once you figure it out it’s very fun and I’m adhd brain damaged and I made a sick ui
I spent like 12 hours on it though
onyx scroll
Yeah I've spent time on it and its just so scattered. I think I know what I want to do with it, but man some of the options are hidden
frank trench
Yeah some of the stuff isn’t intuitive
Like pandemic and grayscale for some reason took me forever to to figure out
And then making pandemic more visible
Also changing the white cooldown clock ⏰ thing
I made one for ass sub but outlaw is killing me
I’m actually so happy with it I kinda wanna try some m+ on death stalker just to see how it works out.
thorn thorn
Do not what
frank trench
Feed them after midnight or expose them to water
thorn thorn
Blue is betrayal
lean plover
does red prefer exan?
blue too likes poison bomb
blue would like kingsbane to be stronger
lean plover
blue is happy
blue didnt like kingsbane changes
blue wants to pool and clip envenoms
haughty flicker
lean plover
why pink no like what pink wrote
haughty flicker
lean plover
why pink has 2007 gifs in his pc
haughty flicker
lucid rune
Are the CS nerfs going live today? Or was it already in the game
balmy condor
today
simple harness
venomous wounds does not work, and shrouded suffocation no longer works it seems
balmy condor
wdym venomous wounds "does not work"
marsh fjord
wdym venomous wounds "does not work"
balmy condor
simple harness
if an enemy dies while afflicted by rupture you do not regain that energy
simple harness
damn nope youre right spoke too soon
balmy condor
10
but yeh
this was a 17 second rupture on a death
had a 1.7 tick rate with the haste at the time
10 ticks
10 energy
simple harness
nope nope my talanets were reset ive been messing everything up
reading the energy nerf now
quasi forge
what poisons is assa using?
balmy condor
the ones you talent into
quasi forge
ok so deadly and amp didnt see deadly wasnt baseline haha
obsidian oracle
Is assa absolutely dumbstering/exposing these other broke boy rogue specs with these new changes?
balmy condor
no
obsidian oracle
balmy condor
turns out when you just randomly push all the beta tuning onto live servers
it doesn't make prepatch tuning any better
almost like
we're missing 10 levels
obsidian oracle
balmy condor
so how does the class tree look like now with new gate cuck
1/2 lethality
balmy condor
tea is the single biggest energy talent on either tree with the nerfs to venomous wounds
is what it is
bronze pike
no i rather talk about how energy feels bad because im spamming rupture on tab target
balmy condor
simple harness
the return energy reduction really does hurt a lot
spice surge
Its to make aoe and ST more similar
So assa isnt stuck doing absolutely fuckall in ST on bosses in keys
But yeah its 1 per tick now instead of the 10 it was before
Quite a big change
The energy refund seems kinda redundant now when the numbers are that low ngl
lethal turtle
Still have 2 weeks to pray
spice surge
Theres like 5 weeks left until stuff matters
But they'll change things after that as well
sacred oyster
it changed from 10 to 1 today or is this about when prepatch first landed?
static glacier
it changed from 10 to 1 today or is this about when prepatch first landed?
The latter
neon burrow
Didn't see anything in the patch notes or FAQ update here, why do we suddenly have more talent points, but less at the bottom?
errant swallow
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
balmy condor
Didn't see anything in the patch notes or FAQ update here, why do we suddenly ha...
it's the new point gates for midnight
vocal basalt
Did shrouded always give 3 combo points during the 6s window?
vocal basalt
Well its only giving one after breaking stealth
balmy condor
gotta love prepatch
vocal basalt
I was just making sure I wasn't going crazy
sacred oyster
am i missing something or did they fuck the rogue tree for the builds we had
coral ibex
balmy condor
they fucked it for everyone to be fair
gotta put an extra 3 points in before unlocking the 3rd area
that's the level 90 talent tree setup
so they just shoved it on us now
neon burrow
on the plus side, we get marginal more suvivability
balmy condor
through what
static glacier
I’m guessing danger sense or w/e it’s called
neon burrow
cast iron stomach and deadened nerves
neon burrow
You could say they....assassinate.
balmy condor
yeah, double ass
sometimes I wish I could go back to being new and ignorant of the game
so I can read talents and just imagine them being cool
neon burrow
You just have to believe.
balmy condor
like recuperator wow that's like
passive healing
all the time
that's so cool!
and just live in the bliss of reading a talent and moving on
neon burrow
yeah! or every time you flip a coin, you get healed. That happens all the time!
balmy condor
rather than being cursed with the knowledge that it's actually giga dogshit
neon burrow
Still better than nothing.
sacred oyster
wtf is yours healing, mine says 222 health
main bobcat
I’m guessing danger sense or w/e it’s called
log in aram
timber pawn
Was this actually a 13% or a 3% aura buff
balmy condor
It’s a combination of the previous two beta tuning passes
The first one was 10% to compensate for caustic nerf
The second one was 3%
timber pawn
@timber pagoda Thank you for clarifying good sir!
static glacier
log in aram
I’m in bed, the lights are off, gf is sleeping too. It’s time for you to log in to bedge
main bobcat
rigid pelican
Assa is better now o not ?
oak ember
What did they change to make my talents be refunded?
latent kernel
did they change the way garrote works, i get 3 combo points when used from stealth but now i only get one when i do it again while still in the 6 sec window
i swear it used to generate 3 every time
like even after we stopped taking subterfuge in pre-patch
static glacier
did they change the way garrote works, i get 3 combo points when used from steal...
Why
Are you pressing it again
What could be the reason
timber pawn
Caustic damage got fucking slashed
haughty flicker
What could be the reason
latent kernel
Are you pressing it again
in aoe press twice to pandemic it and then generate 6 combo points to rupture
in the opening
sacred oyster
Are you pressing it again
maximize time in the improved state, and yeah usually enough to then dump rupture
balmy condor
Prepatch Patch 2 Info
All of this tuning is not new, it is the combination of previous beta tuning from the pins below this one. Blizzard is just smashing the beta tuning onto prepatch, regardless of how stupid that is.
What this patch does:
- make assassination "stronger" than it was before
- maybe balance some stuff a little better than previously
- nerf caustic spatter + other irrelevant tuning
- add a 13% buff to all damage
What this patch does NOT do:
- make assa "good"
- have prepatch numbers make any logical sense
- actually balance the game similar to beta (we are missing all of our levels, secondaries scales differently at 90 than they do at 80)
In addition to that nonsense:
- Yes, you "lost" class tree talents. The last point gate has been increased from 20 to 23 points, which is what it is for midnight. The extra class tree points from leveling will give you back cold blooded killer, but for now you lose 3 points in the bottom area of the class tree
- Shrouded suffocation isn't giving combo points during improved garrotes window anymore, only from pure stealth. This is most likely a bug, but could be intended
As a final note if you haven't kept up with anything midnight so far, yes your energy "sucks", yes they deleted rupture sniping (it went from 10 energy to 1), yes that's intended, no the apex talent won't "fix" any of that, sudden demise indeed sucks, and it still doesn't work in open world, singular focus still doesn't work off of caustic spatter damage, fatebound is viable in m+, deathstalker's mark is arguably more annoying to play around than before, I love you + you're cute + prepatch is a fucking clown fiesta just spare yourself the pain and log out until midnight launches
static glacier
Gg
haughty flicker
static glacier
@whospyr how much dps do I lose from not getting restealth bc of the 2 combo point bug 
burnt venture
Whispyr is typing...
static glacier
And no it wasn’t a typo
haughty flicker
balmy condor
@whospyr how much dps do I lose from not getting restealth bc of the 2 combo poi...
near fucking zero because shrouded is taken for the passive 20% garrote damage regardless of stealth and not the 2 extra cp but people don't understand that because the wording is a little weird and so they think it's just improved garrote 2
latent kernel
i mean i asked bc the interaction was different not bc i care about min-maxing prepatch lol
balmy condor
@mo bamba
static glacier
static glacier
Unironically though you’ve already got a goated evoker name, just add an e
balmy condor
the world is healing
vivid elm
Sheck Whespyr
haughty flicker
he logged in so i could check i wasnt deleting anything i cared about
unfortunately for him he was replaced
haughty flicker
ngl if ren didnt exist hayato would be very tempting
actually really fun
plus being overtuned as fuck helps
balmy condor
wdym, very balanced
lime onyx
ayy leggo
lethal turtle
Diddy wep of choice is not daggers
little tulip
roge
storm heron
Diddy wep of choice is not daggers
Should be baby oil and cheekz bane
tranquil bough
wtf is this dogshit gameplay sin is dead af
cunning needle
Yeah ikr, thank goodness we still have sub for some complexity in the rotation
tranquil bough
sad
cunning needle
for legal reasons my comment was satire
nocturne solar
im late to the party - for raid its still not worth to spec sin? damn i like this spec so much
balmy condor
for prepatch shit is all sorts of fucked
but the raid is also nerfed actually to shit
so
nocturne solar
barren yarrow
what are we yapping
we yap not because we want to, but because its annoying. 😛
nova kelp
Yeah ikr, thank goodness we still have sub for some complexity in the rotation
you just gota face facts man, sub is the new bm
just without the utility or range
cunning needle
lime onyx
im late to the party - for raid its still not worth to spec sin? damn i like thi...
For raid, I’d say it’s almost at sub level for most fights. Dimmy has better 1m30 timers for sub rn but it’s chill to play sin, you won’t be throwing
spice sentinel
im late to the party - for raid its still not worth to spec sin? damn i like thi...
i 100% parsed a fight tonight i parsed 10k higher and 95 parsed 2 weeks ago as sub.. ass just isnt it unless your group has abhorrent kill timers and everything dies at like 2mins 20 seconds or something.
magic summit
but the raid is also nerfed actually to shit
People still wipe on forge lol to not doing orbs
junior yoke
hi guys one question, how do I simulate without simulationcraft addon? not working anymore at least for me
junior yoke
dunno, I refreshed SC addon and says not updated XD
balmy condor
I guess there might not be a 12.0.1 version
but the 12.0 version should work perfectly fine
just load it anyway
junior yoke
ok, it's working. Dunno what happend that I uploaded the addon but it did not work with reload, had to disconnect and connect again and it worked
tyvm
balmy condor
np
glacial thistle
yo is there a way to remove periodic dmg numbers from popping up above the target? like I dont need to see the bleeds ticking
balmy condor
not periodic specifically
it's all or nothing
(I prefer nothing, we're all just looking at details and logs anyway)
little tulip
oh is plater still tracking all poisons or was that fixed
hollow river
we used-to-could hide any numbers under X value 
balmy condor
oh is plater still tracking all poisons or was that fixed
pretty sure it's still fucked
shit addon
sharp viper
@balmy condorlove u2 and you're a cutie 
just read the pin
hollow river
!ui
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination UI Imports:
Currently not available. Sharing UI's is not as standarized as it was with Weakauras.
For now, browse the following Blizzard HUD and Blizzard CDM imports on Wago:
hollow river
hmm
devout jasper
hey, how can I found fuu's sheet in here
balmy condor
!fuu
prisma monolithBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
balmy condor
will say though, prepatch sims aren't really fully supported or optimized
there was also just a huge tuning patch
sharp viper
prepatch tuning probably only has the purpose of people not all rolling the same fotm class which gets tuned down after first week of raid or so
are there bcdm profiles available somewhere?
golden loom
Why play prepatch when you can play tbc for 10 hours per day
And im still only level 69 somehow...
sharp viper
nah thanks, I'd rather farm decor
golden loom
Housing is cool but I have the creativity of a brick so I've only gotten my house and insta hearthstoned away
subtle kiln
prepatch tuning probably only has the purpose of people not all rolling the same...
The suppress number of total rogue players 
subtle tundra
who else excited???
normal mist
Not me
subtle tundra
what?? its wednesday??? get back from work and get FUCKING DRUNK
little tulip
i want a booze @_@
subtle tundra
leaden garden
Hey just went asa from sub, not played asa for a few seasons, but asa still opens with Ambush right? or garrote now?
leaden garden
gottcha, thank you
rare forum
Whispyr, how much damage are you doing now on single target?
balmy condor
I didn't raid today, but given the fights are like barely longer than a minute, probably like 42? 43?
rare forum
can you share me your st talents pls?
balmy condor
does it really matter when you're skipping 3/4ths of the fight
it's just the guide talents
I'm not going to put talents into the guide and then not use them 
rare forum
wowhead you mean?
jolly stirrup
I'm not going to put talents into the guide and then not use them <:KEKW:7989128...
next level on getting top logs, lure everyone into taking the wrong talents
balmy condor
sure, I mean all the guides say the same thing
jolly stirrup
balmy condor
wowhead works
if you hate me you can go to icyveins, I don't write that guide
has the exact same info
balmy condor
np
balmy condor
next level on getting top logs, lure everyone into taking the wrong talents
nah I can't be fucked trying to be cringe on prepatch
bottom spec to top spec in prepatch is legit a 100% difference
legit could not give a fuck
expansions over
raid is giga nerfed
m+ is meaningless time waste
just collect whatever you want to collect, empty the bags out
wait for launch
I'm not really logging in at all right now because what's the point
logging in on a tuesday to have the servers explode
walk up to dimensius, do my opener, boss is at 30% hp
delete the platforms before adds spawn
show up p3, kill boss before the rings go out
yippie I guess
rare forum
yeah it is true
balmy condor
scariest thing about the raid in prepatch is the fact that you might fall asleep during a boss
and when you wake up your raid killed the next boss without you
cause they accidentally thought it was part of the trash
fleet pagoda
Sounds like people in my raid at the start of a patch 
balmy condor
like salhadaar is one of the more technically difficult bosses
log in on prepatch
push to dragon phase before third ghosts
skip the platforms and the intermissions
the dragon gets obliterated even while missing half the cds
salhadaar comes back, run out one set of stars, he's dead
??????????????
what
the fight is missing
I am deadass,
80+% of the mechanics
just fully skipped
who the fuck is enjoying this
fleet pagoda
First half of the raid is pretty easily puggable right now too, no incoming damage at all
rare forum
I have the Signet of the Priority trinket, which stat should I raise to boost its power, Mastery?
fleet pagoda
Golly
balmy condor
I have the Signet of the Priority trinket, which stat should I raise to boost it...
I would assume crit
rare forum
ok ty
balmy condor
crit should be your highest stat
so it's not like you really have a choice in the matter to begin with
wooden basin
Do you reckon it’ll be feasible to play both assa and sub at least in s1 midnight? I’m talking stat priority wise, a lot of times on other classes they have completely different stats they want so it made it not as easy to switch between the two
balmy condor
it's always been feasible
the impact of having "bad" secondaries on a different spec has always been a gross overestimation from the community
obviously if you don't have the haste for sub, it's not optimal
but like, you can still play it just fine and perform
it's not like the spec magically just shatters into a million pieces cause you're missing 10% haste
wooden basin
that’s fair, I do tend to look too much into secondaries
I think sub just feels better with a certain haste threshold right
Not the end of the world
balmy condor
idk if it's that much of a feel thing
it's more just like you have some breakpoints where you get another gcd, another finisher because of the dance duration
or you fit another sectec into a cooldown window cause the cd is hasted
gameplay wise it's pretty identical
but because of how you lower/extend your cds, you just end up fitting more things into the same windows
wooden basin
Right on. Appreciate the response, I like to mix things up from time to time and I realy like both assa and sub so
we never ever have a rogue so I might vacuum the daggers 
plush umbra
we never ever have a rogue so I might vacuum the daggers <:KEKW:7395154697819260...
keep in mind hunters can now actually use daggers as well 🙁
balmy condor
keep in mind hunters can now actually use daggers as well 🙁
they don't actually want to do that though to be fair
plush umbra
they don't actually want to do that though to be fair
but they're hunter players, have you ever known them to play optimally?
balmy condor
true
but also how stupid would a survival hunter look with double daggers
they're literally the "year of the spear" simps
wooden basin
keep in mind hunters can now actually use daggers as well 🙁
Man fuck hunters
Lowest of low keys
plush umbra
I'm not sure if it can look sillier than fury being able to transmog to daggers as well now
balmy condor
survival with daggers for sure looks dumber in my head
plush umbra
I tried transmogging to the smallest daggers I could find on my warrior, and it just looks like I'm punching things instead
weary stump
Just remember, hunters aren't real people
Unless they have a funny pet name of course, then all is forgiven
frank trench
I thought I read in a guide that daggers are worse for some reason I don’t remember why and could be totally full of crap
spice surge
but also how stupid would a survival hunter look with double daggers
Afaik they still need a 2h for one of their aoe abilities
But again, it's Survival hunters we are talking about
And nobody ever plays survival
balmy condor
And nobody ever plays survival
our raid roster in midnight might genuinely have 2 survival hunters and a rogue
spice surge
Mad
wooden basin
Last time I can remember survival being this good was like shadowlands maybe? That one season
Maybe they had a stint in DF. But also they could still be nuked we haven’t hit release soooo
plush umbra
I'm not sure why they keep trying to have specs use both dw and 2h
pliant falcon
are there any "optimal" talents for the time being on assa till midnight launches ? cuz the new point changes fked up what i was using pmuch 😭
plush umbra
the specs where it's an option, they've always just had a correct and a wrong one to play
oblique sorrel
I think it’s messed up that they can’t bring all the specs to within a margin of each other
Nothing should be 70k dps ahead of anything
plush umbra
if they were to really focus on getting every spec on a 5 minute patchwerk fight in bis gear, they could very much do that
they don't do it because that's not the entire game, and they're also taking other forms of content & other kinds of bosses in mind
see sub in S3 TWW, it was probably one of the worst specs for pure single target patchwerk
spice surge
I think it’s messed up that they can’t bring all the specs to within a margin of...
They usually do though?
plush umbra
but it was used in the raid because it had big burst, and big burst is very good when the boss takes double damage
balmy condor
are there any "optimal" talents for the time being on assa till midnight launche...
!guide
plush umbra
if you're looking at beta sims for that 70k ahead number, there's likely still one or two tuning rounds before the raid is out
oblique sorrel
Hopefully
spice surge
Raid balancing has genuinely been very good for a very long time
oblique sorrel
The night is darkest before the dawn
plush umbra
I thought the night was darkest after 3 finishers?
oblique sorrel
Death stalker was fine they had to go and mess with it
They are like children thy have to touch the thermostat leave it be
wooden basin
Nah that shit has sucked since its inception
oblique sorrel
Didn’t bother me
balmy condor
deathstalker has been the most dogshit thing since it was on alpha
oblique sorrel
In tww or now?
balmy condor
my intial review of the hero talent is probably still the harshest article I have ever written
in tww alpha
they revealed the concepts behind each hero talent and we went "okay, that sounds cool"
and the moment they revealed the mark and the talents
oblique sorrel
Who knows maybe next expansion after midnight we get something new
balmy condor
legit everyone went "this is fucking awful"
I cannot remember anyone being happy about the reveal
it was revealed first even
and the entire vibe at the time was
"trickster will save rogue because deathstalker is unsalvageable"
and then trickster had feint as a dps cooldown in first iteration
and the doom went INSANE
nova aspen
hi pookies
balmy condor
when "feint is a dps cd" is the second worst thing a class gets
it's really fucking bleak
lethal turtle
The devs rogue should have
plush umbra
I feel like rider is sick right now
rider is probably the ideal hero talent for many
thematically really cool
gives some more utility, more mobility
doesn't actually change gameplay for damage at all
little tulip
i thought the smoke bomb distract talent applying fazed was cool
spice surge
it's really fucking bleak
Yeah and they even made it worse now in Midnight for fun
little tulip
but also oh boy death and decay derivatives
spice surge
Very strange choice
plush umbra
it's a bit shocking that they looked at the one complaint overshadowing all others for deathstalker
and then decided to double down and make the biggest issue even worse
spice surge
i thought the smoke bomb distract talent applying fazed was cool
Ye it should be but instead it's completely and utterly useless
Also very strange
wooden basin
that would be pretty cool
provide like something like darkness if ur raid is inside it
plush umbra
I'm pretty sure if you block los for npc's with smokebomb that it would break so many things
balmy condor
nuh uh, we lost sbomb so that demon hunters could have darkness
darkess was literally just purple smoke bomb
distant helm
Can we take our glaives back too then
balmy condor
So we just take darkness back from them
but darkness is thematic to dh now 
west gyro
And the demo locks can take meta back too
balmy condor
Can we take our glaives back too then
okay grandpa lets get you to bed jfc
glaive rogue
distant helm
Just want the transmog 
balmy condor
2005 lookin ahh back before the towers fell
red schooner
Just delete DH it was a mistake
wooden basin
Ya right, way too many zoomer weeb lords would be in shambles
little tulip
i wanna make a dis is the way joke but the words aren't happening
ye that sounds more like a tank thing anyway
golden kestrel
Does anyone know if it is possible to show our poisons on plater bars? Neither cant seem to "whitelist" them anywhere in Blizz UI and Platynator
balmy condor
not unless you install plater, which is broken to shit and completely ignores the entire blacklisting
you don't need to show poisons at all
it's unnecessary visual clutter
golden kestrel
I would like to decide that for myself
spice surge
You cant anymore
golden kestrel
I enjoy the fantasy of dots ticking on my enemies. (and seeing how many stacks they have)
allright, got what I asked for
spice surge
Atleast "addons wont be playing the game for you" anymore either 
lethal turtle
I wish plater was playing the game for me
golden kestrel
I wish I had urgency to decide what i want to see or not.
pliant falcon
Seeing who used cds/cc in m+ was too toxic or why did they remove that shit from details?
balmy condor
yeah blizzard doesn't think you should decide that
spice surge
This is the cost we have to pay so that addons cant solve a fight like fractilus anymore
lethal turtle
No one will remember anything after 3 weeks on Midnight
little tulip
p is for participle
lethal turtle
Peptides for me
little tulip
the weirdest thing i've seen this pre patch is cast bars working on plater/platynator but being broke to hell on ice hud
isomers are kewl
lethal turtle
wicked valve
Its the year of our lord 2026, and I still have to apply my poisons every hour.
frank trench
Whispyr can I ask you a spell interaction question?
When you deathmark and kingsbane
wicked valve
I'm rock hard
frank trench
Does each use of crimson tempest have a different amount of damage ramping per cast depending on where kingsbane is at in its ramp?
Or is it flat from the deathmark
I struggle with all the interactions with these two spells since they have so much synergy
balmy condor
Does each use of crimson tempest have a different amount of damage ramping per c...
what
spice surge
CT does not spread kingsbane
balmy condor
yeah
marsh fjord
Im confused what does CT has to do with DM/KB?
balmy condor
the interaction here is CT spreads garrote and rupture
frank trench
But it’s boosting the bleeding damage from lethal dose?
frank trench
Ahh ok
frank trench
Yeah
balmy condor
think about it from the perspective of the target, not from the player right
if you think about the main mob getting it
spice surge
Deathmark doesnt make all your bleeds do 100% more damage, it only makes the target you have deathmark on take more damage
balmy condor
you applied garrote, rupture, 4 poisons
that's 6 stacks
but the second mob, doesn't have anything
so that's 0 stacks
they're separate instances
deathmark and kingsbane are the same way
they're target debuffs
frank trench
Ohhhhhhh that’s extremely well put and easy to understand thanks homie
balmy condor
so when you deathmark and kingsbane, that's 8 stacks
but the other target still doesn't have anything
so now you press CT right
wooden basin
Deathmark doesnt make all your bleeds do 100% more damage, it only makes the tar...
It should
balmy condor
you "copy" the garrote and rupture to the second target with that
but CT is also a hit, can apply poisons
frank trench
Because the other targets do t have the debuff it just gets the flat spell
balmy condor
so whatever you end up applying, now it for sure has 2 stacks of lethal dose, and maybe 2 more from poisons, whatever
but that's specific to THAT target
frank trench
Gotcha ❤️
balmy condor
the main target with all the shit is still it's own thing
wooden basin
popping death mark and then getting a mechanic 
balmy condor
and this logic applies to damage amps as well as caustic spatter
think of a situation where you have a boss taking 100% more damage, and there's adds around
when you envenom the boss normally, it's 100 damage, so it should spatter that 100 damage
but when the boss takes 100% more damage
you envenom 200 damage
do you spatter 200 damage?
balmy condor
aha, why
winged quail
sending this every time my guild suggests warmup raids in pre patch
frank trench
Cause the buff is unique to the mob not the other mobs
balmy condor
there ya go
this is also how aoe shiv worked for example
aoe shiv, your main target takes 30% more, your off target takes 30% more
frank trench
This conversation has changed my life lol
balmy condor
but you don't double dip that
the target taking the damage itself is taking 30% more
not you doing 30% more
spice surge
The only thing that doesnt work like whispyr is saying is amplifying poison
balmy condor
well
if you read amplifying poison VERY CLOSELY
it does actually say how it works
but it's a tricky one
spice surge
Ye
balmy condor
amplifying poison is a targeted debuff
winged quail
so caustic spreads damage before target-specific amps are applied?
balmy condor
but when you have 10 stacks and envenom
you're technically consuming the stacks from the debuff
to buff yourself
to deal more damage
so that's actually fine, and you deal all the increases as normal
it's not 10 stacks of debuff -> target takes damage
it's 10 stacks of debuff -> your envenom deals more damage
winged quail
you wouldn't think spreading damage off a target would be so complicated
balmy condor
and that is a very important distinction
that last sentence
the wording is VERY precise
for that exact reason
the envenom is the thing consuming, to itself deal more damage
balmy condor
you wouldn't think spreading damage off a target would be so complicated
it kinda has to be, I give the example of "what if twin ogron in highmaul had a synced damage amp"
these two fuckers
spice surge
Or silken court
balmy condor
imagine you stun them both, they both take 100% increased damage
spice surge
Which had synced damage amp
fallow canopy
Or silken court
Bro went with the unc status reference
balmy condor
if it worked the way most people think
you end up in a situation where your 100 damage envenom
deals 200
and then cleaves 30% instead of 15%
because the 15% splash that caustic should do, then gets doubled
frank trench
lol if my teachers taught as clearly as this I would be be a lot smarter now
balmy condor
so you go from what should have been a 100 -> 15 splash
to a 200 -> 60 splash
you're dealing 4x the damage to the off target
because of a 2x amp
and that's obviously illegal
spice surge
If it was a 200% amp it wouldve been even sillier
balmy condor
the other more recent one that people misinterpreted was gnarlroot in amirdrassil
big tree guy, huge damage amp phase, and there were adds up
so the question becomes
if the boss is taking 100% more damage
and you have 15 shitter adds nearby
is it ethical for you to deal 2x your aoe
for essentially "free"
just because one of them is taking more damage
it's an extreme example, but like
obviously you can't just double your aoe for free
that's silly
balmy condor
or another example would be like singular focus
but that's a bit harder to visualize in your head
imagine the same situation, with 1 target taking 100% more damage, and 1 target taking normal damage
you envenom the target with the amp, it spatters, and then it comes back to the main target
well, if everything just buffed everything else
you would double your damage into the first target, which would then do "double" the cleave
and then that would come back in to the affected target, and get doubled AGAIN because of the singular
so you'd get double dipping off of that
and that's clearly silly as well
nova aspen
fallow canopy
haughty flicker
balmy condor
you deal 100% more, they take 100% more, then it comes back and takes another 100% more
so you go 100 damage out of your character hits for 200 damage, cleaves for 30% instead of 15%, then singular focus rips it back in for 10% rather than 5%
so under "normal circumstances" it shouldve been 100 damage -> cleave 15 -> singular for 0.75
but now it's 200 damage -> cleave 60 -> singular for 6
you've multiplied your funnel 8x
and these example specifically are specifically why it DOESNT do that
fallow canopy
I'm just waiting for the day that singular bugs out and ourobouros blizzard servers with infinite calculations
balmy condor
there was a bug sort of like that in shadowlands
you could exsanguinate your exsanguinated bleeds
and bone spike, counted as a bleed
with an infinite duration
balmy condor
it would crash entire open world zones
because someone decided to exsang something 5x
and the tick rate went to like 0.04
balmy condor
it was fixed rather quickly, yes
frank trench
Thanks @balmy condor this was insanely helpful to understand debuff on target 🎯
Appreciate the response
balmy condor
Np
lethal turtle
Tuning day. We will only see poisons are now permanent buffs.
haughty flicker
i like applying poisons
not enough to care if it gets changed though since most other people dont like it
weary stump
We should keep applying poisons because it lets us say rogue buff applied when the raid lead asks for buffs to go out and you have atrophic on
Anything to mildly annoy people
red schooner
i like applying poisons
Have permanent poisons be a toggleable option
lethal turtle
Havoc nerfs , Sin nerfs , Fire mage nerfs today
weary stump
Shaman nerfs so they can get buffed more significantly next month to please thrall
spice surge
Nah no shaman nerfs, one shaman spec must be meta in keys
Otherwise sub has no chance of being meta
sacred oyster
Havoc nerfs , Sin nerfs , Fire mage nerfs today
are you memeing or really see something saying nerfs today?
lethal turtle
strange tundra
Havoc nerfs , Sin nerfs , Fire mage nerfs today
🔒 Message has been Redacted.
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faint crescent
How does assa feel to play with apex talents. Completely ass or fine😅
balmy condor
Bout the same as now
strange tundra
How does assa feel to play with apex talents. Completely ass or fine😅
assa
ass
strange tundra
Idk u tell me
sacred oyster
doesnt apex give stuff that improves energy flow? so that should least be better than 'now' lol
red schooner
But you count to 5
Fuck, my weakness
sacred oyster
the buf yesterday is def felt, i was able to hold near equal dmg to a 170 hunter when im 158 when he use to double me with insane dmg
balmy condor
doesnt apex give stuff that improves energy flow? so that should least be better...
It’s not that much energy
lethal turtle
Itll just let you Mut one time instead of being starved
faint crescent
It’s not that much energy
Do you even have to play around that or?
balmy condor
Do you even have to play around that or?
Yes
frank trench
I’m so excited for next season. Even before apex just running some priory and flood gate assassination is so wildly fun to play.
The CT change is 🔥
severe meadow
The CT change is 🔥
It feels smooth, I’m a big fan of it
coral agate
sudden demise indeed sucks, and it still doesn't work in open worl
Obviously this is a bug, but will it still suck if this is fixed. Saw a Rogue last week with this and Sudden Demise was doing WORK, but of course this was in TW, soooooo
nova aspen
timewalking is an even bigger shit show than pre-patch, i would not take anything seriously in there
for example, i remember the wax coat on weapons from the kobolds rogue quest was 1 shotting mobs in there or something like that
plush umbra
timewalking is such a shitshow
radiance & symbiosis were broken on both embellishments & trinkets since the start of tww
you could do mage towers with both and just sit at 126% vers the entire time with a frequent procc for 126% crit
then prepatch comes out, both those items turn out to still be broken in prepatch
and then they scramble to fix them a day after prepatch, despite the scaling issue with those things being known for a year and a half
it's just an afterthought for blizzard and they never actually look at anything going on in there
shy creek
it's just an afterthought for blizzard and they never actually look at anything ...
tbf it is timewalking
things getting one shot in timewalking is a non issue
plush umbra
a surprising amount of people take offence to someone being able to oneshot things in timewalking
I was bored somewhere last year and made a few timewalking twinks, think lvl 11 warrior and some lvl 50's with essences, azerite armor and everything else
the amount of whispers I got from people telling me I was ruining their experience
literally did nothing besides say hi at the start and start running through the dungeon
tight ginkgo
But you count to 5
whispyr can you teach me to count to five please 
still kernel
hi you know where i can find new build for assa talent's please ?
royal lantern
hi you know where i can find new build for assa talent's please ?
wowhead is updated allready
lethal turtle
Tell ion to show us tuning notes
indigo ginkgo
!guide
indigo ginkgo
!addons
lethal turtle
!feet
indigo ginkgo
what addon you people using for the the complete ui like weakauras ?
fallow canopy
there are various alternatives, bettercdm + senseiresourcebar / arcui + sensei and some unit frames addon. Mostly up to personal taste
indigo ginkgo
thanks
random lily
Did assassination get an overall buff? Does it feel good?
runic hinge
ruby birch
Boizon
hazy ether
Hey guys, I am using the default personal resource to track my combo points but the personal resource field doesnt center combo points. How can I fix this?
quasi forge
Just suffer?
charred marten
AOE damage in keys feels noticeably worse, slightly higher ST but still lower than everyone else
wooden basin
in pre patch?
lime onyx
Hey guys, I am using the default personal resource to track my combo points but ...
Use an addon like sensei or wangbar
lethal turtle
My aoe dmg on beta keys at least in 18-19s feels really good on sin. Its not like arcane or demo but its def good.
Boss dmg def feels like bootycheeks
gray raven
sounds like the last 2 seasons
lethal turtle
Yeah, but people don't understand that and whysper hates beating dead horse
gotta spell it out sometimes
balmy condor
Even after the buffs?
I would’ve assumed with caustic nerf and the generic buffs to stuff the boss damage was okay
At least what I’ve been looking at
rotund oak
severe meadow
Whispyr did you do any mythic raid testing?
balmy condor
Every round in fact
severe meadow
How are the fights? Five big booms?
balmy condor
They’re alright
lethal turtle
Let me see if we have logs
balmy condor
It feels like they’re playing it a little safe
severe meadow
I was worried about complexity with WAs being neutered
spice surge
They are indeed world of warcraft raid bosses
lethal turtle
I’m usually around 20-30k behind them
severe meadow
But figured it was a testing grounds
lethal turtle
So I guess it’s not that bad
sweet glen
i assa saved?
severe meadow
normal mist
Ass is indeed saved
severe meadow
Ass is indeed saved
You…
normal mist
severe meadow
It’s time to return to monster hunter grind (I reinstalled)
normal mist
18th will be huge
fallow canopy
Ass is indeed saved
Certified dad jokes
normal mist
I'm so hyped
severe meadow
Theres already like 7 new things I haven’t fought
severe meadow
Something to do me thinks
Beat the game, did some end game farming, stopped
I stopped before any big updates
severe meadow
HR was the highest
normal mist
There's so much for you to do
normal mist
I'm currently 540hr
severe meadow
How’s LS looking rn?
sacred oyster
AOE damage in keys feels noticeably worse, slightly higher ST but still lower th...
? Mine was pretty decently improved. are you in lower keys? I could see lower keys where stuf dies faster giving less time for bleeds to tick, the caustic nerf hurtin you there, but in higher keys, where bleeds can actually tick, it got the dmg increase.
normal mist
The same as tu1
lethal turtle
Yeah playing sin in like anything under 15
Is def not something you wanna do
Just play sub
sacred oyster
meh at the lower keys it doesnt matter, dont need to minmax there lol
normal mist
Just do 10s
lethal turtle
Our lower keys might be someone else’s high keys
normal mist
Call it a day
lethal turtle
(:
normal mist
Be happy
sacred oyster
12's dont have affixes
normal mist
No you
spice spire
That’s false
normal mist
You're easy to love
lethal turtle
You are false
spice spire
Only you would know
lethal turtle
Please go wash yourself
spice spire
Demontime emoji or whatever the kids say
severe meadow
Please go wash yourself
We don’t wash here, sir
Approach filthed up, or not at all
spice spire
Tell that fraud
proven jasper
Nothing like queing up another adc game with tpain guiding me
spice spire
Put respect on Mike Jones’s name rn
proven jasper
On GOD
lethal turtle
I’m a jungler
I like to be flamed by apes
Continue. It will get my mental right for next game
spice spire
I’m a jungler
U every game
proven jasper
Continue. It will get my mental right for next game
its okay i que adc, im letting 4 robots take control of my LP
spice spire
Idk league I assume this is the case for all roles
proven jasper
never know what happens
lethal turtle
Yeah I have actually learned slurs at 35 years old I didn’t even know existed as a jungler
spice spire
Damn
proven jasper
man tpain really hitting it rn tho
lethal turtle
Love my irelia one tricks that fight before lvl 3 and die to Jax and I obtain slur
Where thin shad at
Need more wow content on YT
charred marten
? Mine was pretty decently improved. are you in lower keys? I could see lower ke...
16s and 17s, I guess that could be considered low with the new scaling
sacred oyster
then wth are you doing to see a dps reduction
run a sim and see if your dps matches what the sim shows at min?
charred marten
Haven’t simmed yet I was just going off the vibes from first big pull in floodgate and priory
sacred oyster
floodgate i feel is variable on that first pull of the randomness with sawblades, ive had numerous fuckups on that pull not getting bleeds spread correctly.
but i did a 12 priory last night and had good spread of bleeds going and felt like i was doing significantly better.
lean plover
Hope its only for you
weary stump
haughty flicker
Ngl the bubbles situation is actually very cool
Not only removing a dogshit miniboss due to player feedback, but brutally murdering it in front of them and leaving its child to die alone
severe meadow
Not only removing a dogshit miniboss due to player feedback, but brutally murder...
Are you okay
haughty flicker
I am now
Floodgate would honestly be a better dungeon if it ended at swampface though ngl
severe meadow
True, as long as I can still grief my friends by running the opposite way and killing them
weary stump
Not only removing a dogshit miniboss due to player feedback, but brutally murder...
He was too pure for this world just like glorp
proven jasper
Floodgate would honestly be a better dungeon if it ended at swampface though ngl
True
coral jasper
After todays patch we dont use shiv anymore and we dont use vanish in our cds right? So basicly just keep the bleeds up and use kb on 1 min and on 2 with dm if we get 2m fight even?
jaunty notch
anyone can share m+ talent ?
junior yoke
These changes of 12.0.1 is on live rn rigth?
I mean the class changes
haughty flicker
yeah
haughty flicker
there seems to be a good amount of stuff sub is min/maxing around with apex
but on prepatch yeah its not the most interesting spec
junior yoke
live is 12.0.1
tyvm
lethal turtle
Where my notes for today
haughty flicker
no more notes until the last titan
tall jay
Anyone got a good platy or plater profile for us yet? 🙂
sacred oyster
just pick one you like in platy
sacred oyster
I set non cast transparency to 50%, target size 150%, casting size 200% so casting mobs stick out, and cur target is a different size (and i have target indicators)
tall jay
Ok cool
thorn thorn
Floodgate would honestly be a better dungeon if it ended at swampface though ngl
Would it be better if the architects were removed
severe meadow
Would it be better if the architects were removed
I love being pinned to the ground 2 inches from meleeing a mob
lethal turtle
You just like being pinned to ground by men
severe meadow
Only if it’s @spice spire
spice spire
I love being pinned to the ground 2 inches from meleeing a mob
Two inches is a lot!
Too much even
severe meadow
A very generous amount
spice spire
Only if it’s <@226508540746006528>
spice spire
A very generous amount
It’s called hero worship king
thorn thorn
Only if it’s <@226508540746006528>
spice spire
Jealousy is a disease get well soon xoxo
thorn thorn
Jealousy is a disease get well soon xoxo
severe meadow
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1159545771998331022/1182291627151200296...
I took a loan out
Thriving
thorn thorn
YUGE
lethal turtle
Pulsating
thorn thorn
lethal turtle
<:corncerned:1249439936751468625>
Can’t pulsate in peace
severe meadow
<:corncerned:1249439936751468625>
You better say yes lil gup
thorn thorn
I aint no side piece
haughty flicker
spice spire
You better say yes lil gup
Put on the cat ears homie
lean plover
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1159545771998331022/1182291627151200296...
will red give blue a discount?
thorn thorn
Only if blue is good
lean plover
blue is a grey parser
ornate cloud
So I'm in a bit of a pickle with Assassination lately, my rogue is 150 and slowly climbing up in the gearing but in M+ my DPS is just barely inching over 11-15k, is Assassination really that poor performing right now or am I just terrible?
sacred oyster
So I'm in a bit of a pickle with Assassination lately, my rogue is 150 and slowl...
somethings off in rotation,l you should be doing 18k min
crude helm
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1159545771998331022/1182291627151200296...
Edating price hikes after Kyedae and tenz split 
thorn thorn
My prices havent changed
haughty flicker
who
thorn thorn
I have standards
thorn thorn
blue is a grey parser
So is red
sacred oyster
So I'm in a bit of a pickle with Assassination lately, my rogue is 150 and slowl...
run a simc quick sim on Dungeon slice. see if your rotation is off from recommended.
balmy condor
Edating price hikes after Kyedae and tenz split <:sadge:786012034881421372>
love is dead
crude helm
I made a banger copy pasta about it
Bro did you hear TenZ and Kydae split? Haha speaking of Split remember that time you pocket saged me in your plat 1 rank up game on split? Maybe we can duo swift play sometime?
ornate cloud
I will say this, spamming crimson tempest just for dot cleave uptime is a hassle so that could be what I'm doing wrong too
sacred oyster
well no you def ned to do that to keep everything dotted
I personally do 2 CT's to 1 envenom on the opening of a pull to get the dots spread faster regardless if the first CT hit 5 CP or not.
as 2 CT's is pretty much guaranteed to be 5+ CP so keeps focus off of monitoring CP and just spread, dump, stay out of stupid, interrupt important stuff.
but when i get to FOK I then monitor CP
fresh coyote
Is it just me or does Assa feel horrible to play right now? The energy problems are crazy.
sacred oyster
but my usual tanks super aggressive so always chain pulling so spreading with CT constantly
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2QdVRh4NpE5RHry4ii7kuQ caustic is so low on the list now, im really thinking 3 CT Envenom would be better.
spice spire
love is dead
I’m right here king
spice surge
Is it just me or does Assa feel horrible to play right now? The energy problems ...
Its not a "problem", its how the spec is intended to play, to not have energy for every global
But obviously you might not like it, and thats completely fine
sacred oyster
oh, i just realized can expand envenom to see 6.2% of it is from aoe. ok thats good to know
fresh coyote
Its not a "problem", its how the spec is intended to play, to not have energy fo...
Yeah I get its how the spec is 'intended' to play, but it's never been this bad. You literally have to wait 2/3 seeconds to usee CT, 2 seconds into the fight. Feels grim
Right now, I feel it is definitely a problem, but that's probably because everything is scaled for level 90.
spice surge
Theres very little difference at 90
You get like 10% more energy overall from apex
So not that major
sacred oyster
this bothers me about sims. in a big ad pack, why is it using FOK before CT has spread bleeds to everything?
lethal turtle
Walk me thru why you think that is
sacred oyster
i dont know, it sure as hell isnt what I do. I CT until everything is bleeding then FOK
fresh coyote
Theres very little difference at 90
Stats I mean; not abilities.
sacred oyster
i dont understand why you would FOK first and then spread bleeds as stuff is dieing or dead
sacred oyster
is your goal to get more value for energy from the CD's since FOK is cheaper?
lethal turtle
Idk I thought getting caustic up first would be smarter
I’m playing a bunch of specs right now on beta not a expert at one yet
sacred oyster
im not saying to not use envenom, im questioning FOK over CT
fresh coyote
Yeah you have more stats now
Sigh, nevermind.
spice surge
Sigh, nevermind.
Things arent going to be drastically different at 90 is all im saying
sacred oyster
it makes more sense to me to get everything bleeding first then use FOK
spice surge
Idk why youre sighing 
haughty flicker
sometimes we all need a good sigh
ivory elk
How do tou guys track dots? I find it kinda difficult to know when they've been spread to all targets and switch from CT to FOK
sacred oyster
How do tou guys track dots? I find it kinda difficult to know when they've been ...
nameplate icons. Platy is what I use as plater is having filtering issues I believe