assassination

[balmy condor]

It is though, 5% of all of your aoe is coming back

[hazy helm]

It’s 5% of th damage you’re doing to 20 mobs vs 5% of the damage you’re doing to 10 mobs.

[balmy condor]

YES IN ONE SINGLE PULL

If I’m doing two pulls of 10 we’re back to the same number

Well, very close to it

[severe sparrow]

i have no idea what inspired me to open this discord for the first time in months but im entertained that i did

[hazy helm]

Fuck I can’t explain this to you, you say you’re good at math. That’s okay. Be good at math it’ll help you figure out whether I’m giving you a good deal on the boost at the end of the season

[balmy condor]

[haughty flicker]

[balmy condor]

Brother you’re getting so worked up over a 2% talent

Breathe

[hazy helm]

Okay. Me speak caveman

[balmy condor]

Also I never claimed to be good at anything idk why you’re trying to make me out as some villain

[hazy helm]

Funnel damage equal prio damage

[hallow glade]

Do any prepatch gamers know what the best st spec might be on tuesday

[hazy helm]

More funnel mobs equal more prio damage

Bigger pull equal more funnel

[balmy condor]

So far so good

Correct

[hazy helm]

More funnel equal more prio

Unga bunga

[balmy condor]

Correct

We agree then

[gray raven]

All good points - I guess I felt myself getting phased out of bleed build last few seasons as we got higher up because my ST was cheeks and I had mentally checked out from doing hybrid again

So just trying some new copium lol

[balmy condor]

Okay maybe new example

You do one pull with a big target + 19 other small targets

Or

You do one pull with a big target + 9 other small targets

Big Target lives

You chain in 10 more small targets

Both situations have the same mobs

Which is more funnel

[tight ginkgo]

the one which makes me win the argument

[balmy condor]

They are functionally equal aside from the argument of like well during cds if you blow up 19 mobs with caustic then you technically get more aoe out of it

But on the margins we’re talking about, with how dogshit weak singular is these days

It’s just not going to matter sadly

It’s not about “is 20 mob more funnel than 10”

Fucking obviously, I’m not dense

But lower keys aren’t pulling 20 mobs instead of 10

They’re pulling the same 20 mobs in 2 pulls rather than 1

[hazy helm]

👍

[balmy condor]

And the overall difference in funnel for that is just whatever

[hazy helm]

I think the only thing we’re going to agree on is Assa is shit and not title worthy right now. But it’s less shit at higher level keys than lower.

[hallow glade]

Title worthy 😭 you mean on beta right now?

[hazy helm]

Release candidate patch you mean, with realistically one more week of significant tuning before launch

[balmy condor]

I think the better argument for assa in higher keys is having st cds for the prio

[hallow glade]

Release has no bearing on what is good for title

[haughty flicker]

good thing tuning for title doesnt matter until like halfway through the season anyway

[gray raven]

what impactful bugs still exist? all of them?

[hallow glade]

Imagine telling someone at the start of s3 that dark ranger bm was the best spec for getting title

[balmy condor]

Caustic doesn’t work with singular still

[haughty flicker]

[hallow glade]

Bro

[balmy condor]

Otherwise most of the big ones are fixed

[sonic zinc]

wasnt the whole packleader being the better spec in s3 a psyop

and sandbagging

[haughty flicker]

it really was better

but then the dark ranger buffs + apl changes came in

[gray raven]

So that caustic lack of interaction has to be "working as intended" then?

[hazy helm]

Pack leader was still better at the end of s3 in certain dungeons, so no

[hallow glade]

Dark ranger got ungodly buffs I think

[sonic zinc]

i mean wasnt it like DR wasnt as dog as it was percieved

and then it got overly tuned

[haughty flicker]

it probably wasnt as bad as it was perceived at first, but it was still worse than packleader

pl aoe was insane

[sonic zinc]

and also wasnt it good in ST, just no one bothered?

[balmy condor]

Can’t wait for sub meta for another season

[hazy helm]

Considering the damn bear reworked the whole hero tree

It was bad at th start of s3

[hallow glade]

Point is that even at patch release the tuning isn’t very relevant for title

[sonic zinc]

its obviously an outlaw season whispyr 🙂

[hazy helm]

Fair and valid and I’m dooming a bit

[gray raven]

I've been enjoying sub in prepatch

[hallow glade]

Assa was literally demon mode untouchable at the start of s3

[balmy condor]

Not unless they buff singular focus to 20%, then the funnel is real and both me and junkle would cream ourselves

[hallow glade]

And then one week in it was turned into a joke in m+

[hazy helm]

I would be pissed if they do that

Assa is almost as boring as sub

[balmy condor]

There’s no winning with you, eh?

[sonic zinc]

just dont cream on me pls

[tight ginkgo]

bro

[hazy helm]

❤️ I’m a stinker what can I say

[tight ginkgo]

toxic

[balmy condor]

I just want the funnel to actually funnel man

[sonic zinc]

how is this toxic, i said pls

[tight ginkgo]

ok fair

[balmy condor]

They had the opportunity to make deathstalker have a niche

And instead of big funnel st

[sonic zinc]

opportunity is outlaws thing whispyr 😠

[balmy condor]

They decided to make the niche “shit to play”

[hallow glade]

The niche is you get to relog when dsm bugs

Or lose your hero talent when the boss flies away

Or the paladin boss BOPS IT OFF 😭

[hazy helm]

Just delete the rogue class and give DH 3 more specs called outlaw, assassination, and subtlety and singular focus will get buffed to 20% and renamed “similarly wounded quarry”

[balmy condor]

Funny you mention it cause Vengeance dh funnels more with wounded quarry than assa rn im pretty sure

We’re getting mogged by a tank spec

[hazy helm]

🥹

[bitter solar]

We're all wounded quarry in the grand scheme of things

[hallow glade]

Vdh mogging assa and outlaw is crazy ngl

[balmy condor]

Wounded quarry is what singular focus should’ve been

But instead they deleted it interacting with caustic

And then nerfed all the hero talent stuff to shit

[bitter solar]

They stole our smoke bomb and now our funnel

[balmy condor]

[hazy helm]

THEY TOOK ER JOBSS

[sonic zinc]

they did take ER from us

[balmy condor]

I would’ve been happy if they made the tail coins do the big kabooms again

[sonic zinc]

that did happen

[balmy condor]

But the coins are weak as hell now too

[hallow glade]

Am I cooked or would it be cool if singular focus caused like a bigger number of your aoe to not damage the mobs but hit the prio target instead, maybe on a choice node

[balmy condor]

Why live only to suffer

[hallow glade]

At least the coins execute now

[balmy condor]

That’s too cool actually

We don’t do that

[hallow glade]

Like if it reduced your aoe actively to do more st

Idk

[hazy helm]

But but, then your overall damage would be shit and therefore you’re shit.

[hallow glade]

Like arcane in s2 was shit?

[hazy helm]

Exactly!

[gray raven]

then the big bad died so fast it was comical and we were left aoeing the trash

[hazy helm]

Except in cinderbrew. Because timing the whole dungeon went off one massive pull. So fire it was

[hallow glade]

CBM was too stressful

Good riddance

[hazy helm]

That’s what I said about priory, and Dawn. But we play this game with a bunch of dungeon subs that love pain.

[sonic zinc]

i did not enjoy this seasons pool at all

[hazy helm]

I VoTeD fOr DaWnBrEaKeR aNd PrIoWy BeCaUsE tHeY’rE fWuN UwU

[balmy condor]

I just like giga aoe dungeons so I voted priory

[tight ginkgo]

howd you get that picture of me

[balmy condor]

But dawnbreaker is CBT

[sonic zinc]

i was fine with priory

[hazy helm]

Priory wouldn’t have been that bad if they didn’t fuck left side

[tight ginkgo]

delete

[haughty flicker]

i voted floodgate

[hallow glade]

Priory turned out not that bad this season ngl

[haughty flicker]

[sonic zinc]

i HATED streets, db

and i was tired of flood

[hazy helm]

Pugging title with right side routes was tilting

[hallow glade]

Maybe because it was gap city for sub

[balmy condor]

The Arakara simps voting because SURELY sacbrood is giga trinket

Those are the real degenerates

[sonic zinc]

oh right arakara

i hated that place oto

fuck ara kara

[hallow glade]

Ara was so bad

Applying to Ara as rogue felt like

[tight ginkgo]

ara is not a fun dungeon

[hallow glade]

“Please do charity for my shit class”

[sonic zinc]

they gotta stop letting people vote for dungeons

terrible

[hazy helm]

Oh, it’s fuckin messer

Shut up you pumped in ara

[hallow glade]

https://tenor.com/view/patrick-star-no-this-is-patrick-spongebob-angry-mad-gif-9319809

[hazy helm]

🙃

[tight ginkgo]

i do wonder what % of voters in these scenarios play the keys in the season

[hazy helm]

100% (???? On the dawn trinket) the voting was done because of trinkets/loot pools. Then they got nerfed after voting was closed. Giga fuckin kek

[hallow glade]

Sacbrood/signet of the priory/crystal on anub/seaforium, yeah all turned out so good in s3 💀

Voting priory for dogshit signet was really funny when no one even used it in s2

[hazy helm]

Dawn trinkets was doo doo to begin with, so I’m still baffled that Dawn made it though, they had to exclude the dungeon from MDI because of bugs ffs

[sonic zinc]

dawn was also the easiest dungeon by time

its just a giga buggy fucked up mess

[hallow glade]

Dawn was good for weeklies yeah

It’s very fast

But they overtuned first boss and made the timer tight

And also you could just time the key by one shotting last boss with an interrupt

[hazy helm]

Dats right tight, UGH, dats right tight. Now that song is stuck in my head

Hear me out, no tuning needed. Just give old TWW venomous wounds back. Problem fixed.

[desert salmon]

Roll back caustic nerf needed

[hearty seal]

the only dungeon I would possibly take over the final results we got
is mayb DFC over Ara

or over DB, perhaps
but Cinderbrew was a hellscape, Rookery is okay-to-bad-to-mid after each boss respectively, Stonevault is boring as fuck, and I don't think anyone liked CoT

the general final idea Blizz should really get out of this, though
"running the same dungeons for two seasons (not even in a row) in the same expansion is kinda bad guys, don't do it anymore"

[static glacier]

There’s a really important point to make about this

It doesn’t matter for us but for people who play less more dungeons is pressure

Namely they have to learn them in time, the more rotations there are the more the casuals have to learn to participate

It’s why we can’t have 15 dungeon seasons

[hearty seal]

well damn
I figure I am pretty casual myself, like, I don't Mythic raid, and I stop climbing M+ once I hit like 3k, just do my 12s and 13s

[static glacier]

I’m v similar key-wise but mirror that across like 3-4 chars

You’d be surprised that keys don’t actually get much harder til like higher teens, but for me there isn’t enough reward to push so I get all 12s on alts for turbo boost prep / boosting

[hearty seal]

eh, I feel like 10 and 12 are major enough jumps early on, like week 2-3
but my point is, we really should've had 24 dungeons over 3 seasons, rather than 20
while I'm glad S3 was mostly the best TWW dungeons of S1 and S2, I got rather tired of doing them despite only playing maybe 120, 130 keys per season
can't imagine how people who play a thousand feel

[sonic zinc]

mixed bag, since a lot of old keyers are used to running the same 8 dungeons repeatedly over 3-4 seasons

[haughty flicker]

we'd also just run out of dungeons

i think reusing some of the current expac dungeons for s3 is fine

[sonic zinc]

it wouldve been nice to have 2 new dungeons in s3 instead of just eco dome

[haughty flicker]

i mean ideally we'd get two new ones in s2 and s3 then yeah it would work fine

but thats not gonna happen

[static glacier]

Unironically

The expectation we have as a player base of everyone knowing the dungeon from v early on is actually ridiculous

Like within a few days of season start

[sonic zinc]

ya its ridiculous when u hear complaints about people not knowing shit so early on in a season

same shit happens in other competitive environments too

new character comes out

someone plays it to try it out

and then people are like ???

why arejnt u an expert

stop feeding

[hearty seal]

that's why they're adding an autoroute to low keys in MN

[sonic zinc]

by competitive environments i dont even mean ranked or anything

just games/modes that are inherently competitive

[blazing totem]

why didnt you play on beta for weeks to learn every route? smh

[sonic zinc]

why arent you looking at guides from these specific people to learn the routes of every dungeon on day 1???!??!?

why arent you doing this one route i ran with this other tank that you dont know?!?!??!?!?!?!?!

[hearty seal]

couldn't find a reason to pay for beta tbh
like MAYBE I'll shell out money for early access simply because I gotta get on that profession grind asap

[lucid spoke]

do you guys have problems with energy reg atm? and do u know if this gets better in midnight? i play assa since beginning sl and never had such energy problems like now

[main urchin]

So this spec feels and plays like shit now?

[humble verge]

[sonic zinc]

iirc sin is missing a big part of its energy economy rn, which is one of the apex talents

[static glacier]

I think a lot of people forget that tanks never really place with other tanks and same for healers, a privilege we have as dps is that we frequently play with others and can clearly see if we’re doing something fundamentally very wrong while tanks can spend a whole season doing some wierd route without ever really knowing what the right one is

This reason is the biggest thing that stopped me playing fellowship, I was a tank main and they added this Christmas event with new mini bosses that give buffs but it means I’d have to relearn all dungeon routes including the new stuff and I was CBA, already well into eternal so I just called it quits til the next reset

[placid snow]

Yes

[balmy condor]

Not more than usual, and it’s only getting a little faster

Unless you build giga haste, which might be something we wanna do

Assa honestly with the gear set I have for testing is faster than it was for all of Dragonflight and War Within

So I don’t really get the whole energy complaint

The only way it’s ever slower is in aoe

[lucid spoke]

Prepatch or Beta u mean ?

[balmy condor]

And that’s done on purpose because frankly it’s silly that you overcapped 80%+ of your energy just because you garroted a couple times

[balmy condor]

Beta

But even prepatch is like

Not actually that slow

Prepatch is faster than most season 1’s assa has had in recent expansions

And season 1 midnight is only faster than that

Like there is genuine concern about assa being too fast again by the time season 2 comes around

[lucid spoke]

Idk i get m+ First 5 Packs aoe and No tea Charge left

[balmy condor]

Season 1 is already basically maxed envenom uptime

[balmy condor]

Yes, aoe matches single target now

That’s by design, but even then in like 6+ targets you’re actually right back to where you were before because we take things like dashing that we didn’t before

The apex talent doesn’t actually add that much speed

But I think it helps give the feeling that it does

It just LOOKS like it’s doing a lot more than it actually is

[static glacier]

I feel like the energy complaint genuinely only ever comes from non sin mains

Like people trying the class or outlaw andies

[balmy condor]

I mean it is one of the truly unique specs remaining in the game

[lucid spoke]

Idk 4 me it feels Like sth is Missing also the energy getting Back from enemys dies with bleeds isnt that strong anymore

[balmy condor]

where you don't just have things

[static glacier]

Soon, soon whispyr

[balmy condor]

that got nerfed by 90%, also on purpose because rupture sniping was pretty degenerate

they took it from 10 energy per tick to 1

[static glacier]

Tbh they really can go with the “doing nothing is a profound choice” bit

I’d like some chomp style mechanic ngl

Honestly as soon as you remove gcd capped gameplay, give a limiting resource and then give ways to optimise within this context you’ve finished with sin

Blizz still fine tuning that last point

[balmy condor]

blizzard decided that the only thing to do was optimize a single apex talent

most mind boggling thing I could imagine

they literally said "here's the idea of assa"

and then added 1 apex talent

and said "that's the idea, job done"

you what

[hearty seal]

I mean, I've played Sin for all of TWW since 11.0.5 and I still don't like it (and the more I tried to branch out, the less I liked it because I kept seeing the advantages of other classes' resources)
it doesn't really mesh with my idea of how Sin should function, but since I missed like 15 years of design between Cata and TWW, I don't have the same idea as people who have been playing it since Legion or smth

I just don't think what Blizz are trying to do is a good fit for the spec idea, buuuut it's been around for so long it's basically embedded now, or at least the go-to idea on how to distinguish Sin from other classes and specs, even dot specs

[haughty flicker]

is the server icon different or am i losing my mind

the swords look different

[balmy condor]

it's back to the old icon

[haughty flicker]

oh it was the fucking christmas one wasnt it

[balmy condor]

yuh

no more jolly allowed

[haughty flicker]

https://klipy.com/gifs/christmas-jolly-7

back to killing 40k mobs on a shitty kanna

[normal mist]

I asked koffing the exact same thing

[balmy condor]

you mean hayato

[haughty flicker]

i havent logged into hayato yet

is his mobbing better

[balmy condor]

idk how good kanna mobbing is but hayato is like screen clearing with 4 different abilities

[haughty flicker]

if my kanna was stronger i could probably just afk in the middle and let oni murder everything

my little papers do no damage anyway its all her

[balmy condor]

yeh I'm definitely jumping around

it honestly feels like khali a bit

it's like if khali was blue and everything was a FMA

[haughty flicker]

i have to get him to 210 anyway so i try next week once i get more strawberry farm tickets

[balmy condor]

and then you press cd macro and go bing bang boom

and boss health disappears

and then you do noodle fucking zdps for 2 min

it's great

[haughty flicker]

yeah its pretty funny

these classes might as well afk outside of 2m

i think kannas paper shit is like 5% of her damage

[balmy condor]

it's kinda ironic because night lord got absolutely dumpstered the last like 2 years for having ugly disgusting giga burst

and the game was like DPM MATTERS!

NO MORE GIGA BURST!

and then hayato and kanna are just nuclear detonation every 2 min

incredibly strange decision making

[static glacier]

The whole schtick with sin forever was inherently implied bc of how envenom works / limited energy, we used to pool in mop / wod. The issue is if you remove the whole idea of energy bottleneck where is the gameplay? Based on current design theoretically a good sin rogue will have better envenom chaining, envenom uptime and bigger envenoms (reality is they didn’t gate energy enough so it probably doesn’t matter a ton)

If they let envenom stack infinitely with ironfur treatment I could see a different direction, but then it runs into other issues, namely your limiter becomes cp generation not energy

I guess the problem being addressed with this rework is the lack of reward for pooling / chaining

Since it didn’t matter if you spammed env or chained throughout tww

They’re giving meaning back, or trying to

I’m anxiously awaiting the response igni

[hearty seal]

Personally I think no Rogue spec should be non-GCD locked to begin with, giving a class 1 second GCD and then going "yeah but you're gonna only be using it in bursts unless you're playing Outlaw on certain patches" is...a choice, a choice that only really aligns with some PvE fight patterns (but fits kha, kha, peeveepee, kha better), and also a choice that nobody else is suffering from. Monks and DHs have the speed but not the design issues it seems to drag behind it for Rogue. Can't say anything about Feral because my sanity counter starts dropping the moment I see a Druid.

But this also goes back to the fact that Energy+CP is the most limiting resource setup to design for at the moment, IIRC it was you I discussed this with. Basically, all of current Rogue design is still very heavy on playing around with resources and cooldowns in a way like we're still in 2008 - our filler is also on the same resource, so no Energy = no buttons.

• Outlaw dodges this narrowly by having multiple procs and Restless creating gameplay just by the fact that a good Outlaw uses their CDs twice as often as a bad one. Their energy woes seem incidental rather than intentional (still need fixing tho).
• Assa is/should be, theoretically, about dot uptime (having had at various times from 3 to 5 dots), but Envenom overtook the spec completely at some point and dots are just there to feed your Envenom addiction instead. The new apex is trying to make Envenom give back something rather than being the final point of everything you do, but it seems kinda meh at that.
• Sub...tbh I have no fucking idea what current Sub design is even about, it looks extremely simple on the surface yet I'm sure there's like 5 totally unintuitive optimizations for a total +15% damage done or something, but it's basically a tried-and-true burst design with...not much stuff to do during burst anymore. IDK what the hell they're doing with Sub, really, it looks like a foundation rather than a complete spec.

I guess my point here is that pooling just to play the game seems rather uninteresting to design anything around. It's not pooling for massive burst, or for some long-lasting benefits - you just get regular downtime that you shouldn't feel bad about (but that also doesn't feel rewarding in any way).

[static glacier]

To start with and to clarify my general sentiment. My worry isn’t whether Sin is strong, it’s whether it still asks the player to choose restraint instead of just optimising flow.

[hearty seal]

But of course.

[static glacier]

Restraint vs flow is a concept that’s more and more infrequently coming up as blizzard typically takes choice away from us, as restraint implies choice.

Sub has flow in cooldown execution, outlaw has flow all the time

Hitting stuff as it’s ready / your prio says you should is flow, it’s the ability to execute

Restraint is different, it implies planning - an example is maximising your envenom damage in a limited time window with aoe or a dmg amp, you could pre-plan to fit multiple DN envenoms in those situations like in silken court dmg amp or mugzee cleave opportunities. The biggest enemy of restraint is actually damage that is on a low cd that you either hit on cd or are losing it

Of all the rogue specs since has occupied and thematically also occupies the restraint mindset best

Which is why this design is where it’s going instead of say making envenom like new between the eyes where we can just mash for massive dmg amp

[hearty seal]

(I'd argue that Sub should fit that better thematically, but do go on)

[static glacier]

The issue with sub fitting it thematically is that the very concept of TTK not working. Sub kills quickly, Sin kills inevitably.

They didn’t just pick the word implacable, we are not easily placated - there’s an idea of inexorableness there

We might not kill you ASAP, but we will kill you

Continuing the previous topic- the moment you make the skill check of a spec fill all your globals and hit this button every 4 globals as it does more damage than the stuff you use in the 3 other globals you make it about flow but remove opportunity for restraint as that kind of design simply makes restraint too costly

[hearty seal]

Eh, I suppose I have my own grievances with how Rogue specs are set up to begin with (Assassination taking a long time, but Subtlety being bursty? Huh?).

But whatever. The way I see Assa working with restraint is more like...building up to something by dot uptime, with Envenom mostly being filler that makes dots produce whatever stacks are needed for burst faster. Kind of like a Reverse Kingsbane - you build up stacks and you dump them at the right moment, with no real upper limit to not create a situation where you want to press it just to not lose damage.

I.e. you're working upwards for a big hit/series of hits/burst state.

[static glacier]

The thing is we do have that, kingsbane being backloaded damage plays to that paradigm

There’s mechanical differences but the way the damage manifests is similar

[hearty seal]

Well, the general difference is that Kingsbane is a side dish to Envenom atm.

You're playing for Envenom, not for Kingsbane-like mechanics.

[static glacier]

You’re actually playing for not wasting resources. Envenom fundamentally was always what excess energy and cp went towards

You note we always prio rupture first right

Envenom taking over more and more is a symptom of the energy flood

[hearty seal]

Well, yeah, Rupture still does enable a basic mechanic of the spec. I like VW, I think it contributes to what I see as Assa (naming notwithstanding) being about.

[static glacier]

Agreed, VW is the core of the spec

Anyhows, if we go along with your vision some more, would envenom stacking a buff/debuff that eventually you consume with another spell for very large damage your point?

Be*

[hearty seal]

I figure it'd be something like that. But probably not through Envenom itself, but with Envenom enabling the stacking to be faster. I.e. while Envenom lasts, ticks happen faster. Then once you dump the stacks, you want a full energy bar to fit as much into it as possible. Kind of like an Essence Break, but less boring?
I.e. the loop is - DoT up, Envenom to many stacks, dump stacks to do Kingsbane (initial damage based on stacks, but it also does stack up further once on target), you want to keep Envenom up during that window so that KB stacks up as much as possible. You pool for that KB burst.

Probably needs some extra intricacies, but the core would be like that.

[static glacier]

Also all I’ll say about what you’re suggesting is that it’s EXTREMELY variance prone based on player skill

Between spatter range and timing alongside dmg procs from trinket

The moment you remove the “you have to hit this within this time frame or suffer dps losses” / remove opportunity cost entirely you open the way for demons to infest your playerbase’s decision making - do I sent now? I could hold, I could hold forever

[hearty seal]

This is the difference between restraint and inaction.

[static glacier]

Restraint implies there’s an element of holding back from a general direction

What you’ve suggested removes direction altogether

[hearty seal]

Of course stacks decay out of combat, so no saucy stacking the entire M+ run and then dumping on the last boss.

[static glacier]

If you remove constraints to when we can do our damage you create beasts like old demonology

Which had incredible amounts of flexibility to when it could send dmg

And would frequently shift into meta to match trinket procs + to spend soul fire decimation procs, or you could choose to use it outside of meta for less dmg but more meta resource generation

[hearty seal]

You mean the infamous WoD Demo?

[static glacier]

Imagine you can a resource you generated and you could shift into meta at any time, you built resource outside and spent inside

And yes, mop / wod demo

I’m more referencing mop since I personally mained that

[hearty seal]

Funny thing is, I've heard a lot of good things about it...outside of how hard it was to play at the top level.

[static glacier]

The big thing with demo was the amount of resource you could pool and how slowly it built

I’d say it’s my favourite wow spec of all time, it gave you, the player so much control and power with a lot of choices at all levels

Every spell had implications

Lots of little optimisations

The issue was it was too powerful if played well

Then if tuned around that it feels bad for the general playerbase

Peak example: sub rogue in manaforge omega and undermine

[hearty seal]

Yes, I know what you mean.

[static glacier]

Super strong in rwf, not as glamorous in regular guilds

• it just happened to have insane pvp aoe burst

Man just a choice like hand of gulden vs chaos wave

I’d kill for that kind of gameplay nowadays

There’s no decisions anymore

[hearty seal]

Well, those are also considerations. Could put Reverse-KB on a cooldown+charge system - you can't hold forever, but you can hold for a while. Say, 45 seconds per charge, two charges, you reach max stacks in approx...~60 seconds of Envenom uptime? IDK. Maybe if you blow a charge, it instantly gives you 100 stacks or whatever, like 1/2 of max, so your opener doesn't take 40 seconds to start and instead starts at ~10s in. But with that model you can hold a lot and double-slam during execute or amp, so IDK, it's risky design for sure.

As a reminder, my thinking here is that you can really have gameplay for Sin that doesn't fully revolve around your filler also being your burst at the same time (and therefore being limited all the time because your burst has to be limited) without losing its themes of "restraint" and "dot-focused spec".

[static glacier]

I guess shiv with AP fit the bill

It was built up over time as a standard cd

[hearty seal]

I will miss Shiv. It was 100% unnecessary to remove Shiv gameplay from Sin other than decluttering Shiv itself.

[static glacier]

And the dmg amp could just be seen as a big chunk of damage on its own

I think should have stayed

They coulda even let stuff like poison applications give cdr to it

And let it have a few charges

[balmy condor]

Somewhere out there

There’s a blizzard dev cooking up shiv as our titan artifact ability next expansion

[wooden basin]

https://tenor.com/view/rage-rage-bait-baited-rage-baited-angry-dog-gif-2047466162835898859

[hollow dirge]

shiv ❤️

[hollow dirge]

call it toxic blade, and send it

[wooden basin]

Was the discord logo updated it seems higher definition

[runic hinge]

God I hope so

[hearty seal]

Could unironically just bring back TTB separate from Shiv.

[runic hinge]

It’s not Christmas anymore

[hollow dirge]

change icon?
no. no need. name change is enough

[wooden basin]

Ohhh that’s what the difference was

[hollow dirge]

where do I sign

[hearty seal]

on job application to Blizzard

[hollow dirge]

idk if I have enough breastmilk

i mean dev experience

[wooden basin]

https://tenor.com/view/the-boys-home-lander-nao-no-gif-12606514540494555875

[static glacier]

[jade abyss]

[subtle tundra]

lol what if they made kingsbane an special ability attached to a weapon, some sort of artifact with giga powers

[iron carbon]

Nice not being able to use my utility as utility

Not that the amount of needed disenrage is big but still

[hearty seal]

That's what I meant by decluttering Shiv. Keep utility separate, but there was really no need to ditch the other functions entirely, just bring back TTB and have it do these things again.

[iron carbon]

Imo, your disenrage should not be part of your rotation. The design around shiv was nice but it should've been another spell. The sadest thing is that you need to take a useless talent as utility when you play Ass, now

[hearty seal]

That's the point. Keep Shiv as enrage removal, introduce TTB back to do the poison/bleed amp windows.

[iron carbon]

100 % agree

Fuck blizzard

[strange tundra]

🔒 Message has been Redacted.
-# Discord now requires ID verification in order to see certain messages. Learn More

[gray raven]

Pre-patch blues have you down? I've got the answer!

[jolly stirrup]

I see, a fellow Edmund McMillen Games enjoyer

[gray raven]

It's already a win

[jolly stirrup]

This game is gonna be so much fun. I will start later today or tomorrow

[sacred oyster]

does anyone know if the vault uses your currently equipped items in its generation logic, ultimately asking is it worth doing some MFO raids BEFORE opening vault to hopefully get an upgrade from MFO then get something diff from vault

[spice surge]

Your equiped ilvl has nothing to do with the vault

Its all depending on what content you did last week

[subtle tundra]

no it doesn't look at your equipped gear to not give you something you already have

[vestal wren]

wait, what are the other options

[wooden basin]

I’m pretty sure it does look at exactly what I got in raid the week before and gives me the same item

[balmy condor]

Might be on to something

[shy heron]

I needed bracers to finish my tmog set and it gave me those a week or two ago so that was nice

[gray raven]

safe and "random" lol

[vestal wren]

lol

[gray raven]

goty candidate, so fun

[strange tundra]

⁨⁨⁨🔒 Message has been Redacted.
-# Discord now requires ID verification in order to see certain messages. Learn More

[sacred oyster]

any addon that can give an audible alert when gar/rup hits/nearing pandemic window?

[balmy condor]

Shit

[wooden basin]

I really thought that discord news was like half true but yeah they are definitely gonna make people do that

Interesting to say the least

[coral ibex]

most people won't have to submit anything

they've developed a profile of you as a user independent of your message content

[wooden basin]

ya hoping that’s the case

[wooden basin]

they immediately see “yeah he plays wow he’s at least 40” and move to the next guy

[coral ibex]

exactly lol

"20 hours per week of 4x/city builders he's 55"

[wooden basin]

Lmao

[subtle tundra]

i am getting my id requested fo so

[coral ibex]

doubt it, your discord is almost 10 years old

they have an insane amount of data about you

[subtle tundra]

ewww

actually true

[runic hinge]

leaked dms

[subtle tundra]

hi my name is a borat i am 17

[left walrus]

What in the world is up with this spec right now? Garrote and rupture on 5 targets and it takes 12 seconds to fill up the energy bar? Am I doing something wrong or is assassination extremely energy starved at the moment?

[subtle tundra]

i am from kazakhstan, number one country

[runic hinge]

mine turned 10 yesterday

[subtle tundra]

do you have your poisons?

[coral ibex]

venemous wounds got nerfed to about 10% of what it used to do

[subtle tundra]

ON your weapons!?!

[spice surge]

You are not supposed to have infinite energy for every global correct

[coral ibex]

welcome to midnight

[left walrus]

I do have poisons, on my weapons yes 😄

[subtle tundra]

thats great

then yes what youre experiencing is intended

meow!:!:!:!

WOOF WOOF WOOOOOOF

[left walrus]

I mean I realize I shouldn't have infinite energy. But like... If it's like this on 5 targets, it's way worse on single target

[spice surge]

Not really

Its the same

Or well, very similar

[left walrus]

sadface

[coral ibex]

well last season you did have infinite energy in aoe

[spice surge]

Having bleeds on multiple targets is for damage now, not energy

The main way you get more energy in aoe is from dashing scoundrel

[wooden basin]

they wanted assa to be slower and methodical

it’s definitely different, I wouldn’t call it worse but definitely takes some getting used to

do keep in mind if you’re talking about pre patch we do not have our apex talents so you won’t get that burst of energy from implacable

[left walrus]

Does it do any damage tho? Yeah no apex talents thats true. And I basically have newly dinged gear so my stats are dogshit. But if you have good gear does it feel semi ok? I haven't played it in a few years

[coral ibex]

its prepatch

[wooden basin]

pre patch tbh everything feels bad so I’m trying not to read too hard into it

[uncut snow]

I mostly play assa pvp, and it was quite decent. Not A+ like sub but B+ to A- ish

[wooden basin]

If you have beta access (is it an open beta now? Idk)

I’d mess around on there to get a better feel

[left walrus]

Yeah i'll do that. I've played a bunch of classes and tried to compare to the live game. But forgot about the rogue. Just started playing it today on live.

[subtle tundra]

no lol!

[plucky ember]

did the changes do much with the prefered builds?

or are they still prettyy much the same?

[spice surge]

Does not change anything with regards to builds

[wooden basin]

Rip

[spice surge]

Well if you buy the expensive giga edition you get access to the beta

But you know

Kinda pointless at this point to do it only for the beta

[left walrus]

I bought the giga pre order thing a long time ago 😄

[royal lantern]

what will they think when they see my daily :3 in #1080572530554835072

[latent kernel]

the face recognition being client side means its gonna get bypassed so fast lmao

[coral ibex]

[royal lantern]

i mean, if you give them your ID or Face

you kinda deserve idenity theft at that point

[weary stump]

Why wouldn't you just give them pictures of Walter white

Or even better, use the image of mark Zuckerberg drinking water in court

[coral ibex]

people use face id to open their phones for years now

[royal lantern]

if you think opening your phone and sending a shity 3rd party group either your ID details or a picture of your face in motion that will get saved is the same thing

idk man

[sacred oyster]

i dont get why people use discord for adult content, the only thing i see that may impact normal people is the stage voice thing which is so low utilization id bet. only thing i can see someone using stage was for like streamers community discord if they wanted to stream in their discord but not on other platforms, but how common is that even.

[weary stump]

I don't even use face ID for my phone either, I'm still vibing with just passwords

[royal lantern]

it has nothing to do with "using discord for adult content"

its about the entire concept that you are supposed to give up even MORE of your privacy for no reason at all

[sacred oyster]

but nothings making you do it, just dont give it

[lethal turtle]

Where is the new CEO from for discord

Curious

[sacred oyster]

its not like they are taking away core features

[royal lantern]

*nothing makes you do it RIGHT NOW

[weary stump]

We bequeath upon discord our face so they can see our lack of skincare routines

[lethal turtle]

What is EST

[sacred oyster]

if that changes then yes time to move on

[royal lantern]

EST these nuts

[lethal turtle]

Electric shock therapy ?

Ok

If you say so

[royal lantern]

[sacred oyster]

im fully against ever providing id/facial, but this discord one isnt really making me that upset, as i can kinda understand, that if content is explicitly marked as "adult only", laws are making it harder for companies to justify exposing minors to it.

but the stage chat one felt really weird they included that.

[lethal turtle]

Humam Sakhnini

[vestal chasm]

They are too vague about how they are handling the ID data. No real world details of how the data is technically processed. Don't do it. Discord is not security firm. They may have the best intentions, but come on they are not experts at this

[royal lantern]

i mean, we saw what happend with the ID data

[coral ibex]

the facial scan doesn't leave your phone, it is the same as facial recognition on your phone

[sacred oyster]

AI/VTuber type setup is prob gonna be easy to bypass it

[coral ibex]

the overwhelming majority of users won't need to upload anything

[royal lantern]

"it will not be saved"->immediatly a dataleak and 70000 Ids got hacked in the UK

👍

[sacred oyster]

people are tricking it with garys mod etc, but i can see them saying 'you didnt respond fast enough' in an update

[coral ibex]

the UK did require uploaded documents, thats why the third party had it

the facial scan does not leave your local device

[vestal chasm]

How so

[sacred oyster]

i think they are using local LLM to guage then sending the result to server

someone could crack the submission process

[vestal chasm]

Exactly

[sacred oyster]

wonder how long before trojan infested "discord adult unlockers" are being sold

[coral ibex]

"i wont scan my face but i will run unreviewed code from strangers on my device"

so we dont care about security, we're just stupid

[weary stump]

That's why the try my new video game scam that went around discord like two years ago worked so well lmao

[royal lantern]

dont ask whisp about that

[weary stump]

[royal lantern]

tbf, his case was more on the really special side

getting a DM from a longtime friend that even messages you on first name basis? yeha sure, i would not really think anything bad there aswell

[balmy condor]

yeah but that's different cause it's.... in the cloud..... and also apple has never had a data breach.... and wait a minute

[coral ibex]

is it in the cloud?

i thought it didnt actually leave your device

[weary stump]

Apple would never betray its users

[coral ibex]

or is that just apple pay

[balmy condor]

yeah sure bud

[coral ibex]

apple pay is actually one of the most secure payment methods as the card data never leaves your device

its never exposed

[royal lantern]

big tech said so, so it will absolutely do that

[lethal turtle]

Thought every card transaction used is randomized

[coral ibex]

apple pay creates a token

[weary stump]

You know what else creates tokens, dogecoin

[coral ibex]

the token contains an ID for your device and a timestamp for the transaction

your card info is never exposed to the merchant

[lethal turtle]

We love that

I know my Apple CC always changes its numbers I figured Apple Pay was similar. Security and card number

[coral ibex]

this ID is why it takes time for your card to be "approved" in apple pay

it is unique to your card + device

gpay is basically the same system except google stores your ID in the cloud instead of on your device

[sacred oyster]

its how everyone reasonable does billing systems now. I recently redid our billing system to tokenize at the banks site instead of our own so we never see card numbers, we only store the tokens. then stuff like stripe/paypal works same way.

reduces PCI Compliance costs

[weary stump]

I still just use my credit cards chip when I'm physically buying thing

[lethal turtle]

Physically being anywhere in 2026 is cringe

[marsh fjord]

I actually think the face ID is a good one because if you do some unhinged ass shit. like being a racist ass. or actually doing criminal stuff on discord. they can just look at your face easy peasy

[sacred oyster]

tap to pay is SUPPOSED to essentially be a tokenized transaction too.

[weary stump]

Nono I don't tap I insert the funny chip

[lethal turtle]

Yeah gonna turn into EU and jail people for saying racist things

[sacred oyster]

they say they arent storing faces. they just posted a summary on that https://fixupx.com/discord/status/2021295316469940606

Discord (@discord)

We’ve seen some questions about our age assurance update and we want to share more clarity. We know how important these changes are to our community.
︀︀
︀︀Here’s what we want you to know:
︀︀‣‣‣ 𝗗𝗶𝘀𝗰𝗼𝗿𝗱 𝗶𝘀 𝗻𝗼𝘁 𝗿𝗲𝗾𝘂𝗶𝗿𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗲𝘃𝗲𝗿𝘆𝗼𝗻𝗲 𝘁𝗼 𝗰𝗼𝗺𝗽𝗹𝗲𝘁𝗲 𝗮 𝗳𝗮𝗰𝗲 𝘀𝗰𝗮𝗻 𝗼𝗿 𝘂𝗽𝗹𝗼𝗮𝗱 𝗮𝗻 𝗜𝗗 𝘁𝗼 𝘂𝘀𝗲 𝗗𝗶𝘀𝗰𝗼𝗿𝗱.
︀︀
︀︀‣‣‣ 𝗧𝗵𝗲 𝘃𝗮𝘀𝘁 𝗺𝗮𝗷𝗼𝗿𝗶𝘁𝘆 𝗼𝗳 𝗽𝗲𝗼𝗽𝗹𝗲 𝗰𝗮𝗻 𝗰𝗼𝗻𝘁𝗶𝗻𝘂𝗲 𝘂𝘀𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗗𝗶𝘀𝗰𝗼𝗿𝗱 𝗲𝘅𝗮𝗰𝘁𝗹𝘆 𝗮𝘀 𝘁𝗵𝗲𝘆 𝗱𝗼 𝘁𝗼𝗱𝗮𝘆, 𝘄𝗶𝘁𝗵𝗼𝘂𝘁 𝗲𝘃𝗲𝗿 𝗯𝗲𝗶𝗻𝗴 𝗮𝘀𝗸𝗲𝗱 𝘁𝗼 𝗰𝗼𝗻𝗳𝗶𝗿𝗺 𝘁𝗵𝗲𝗶𝗿 𝗮𝗴𝗲.
︀︀…

FixupX · Feb 10, 2026, 6:48 PM

[crisp steppe]

can't imagine a worse thing than being jailed 😔

[final geode]

This assassination buff might make it top dog for prepatch atleast

[sacred oyster]

theres a buff for prepatch in todays patch? wheres notes

[coral ibex]

undertuned during raid prog

[royal lantern]

imagine still being trapped in your physical body lmao

just achieve a higher state of consciosness and ascend past the physical realm bozo, whats the problem

[weary stump]

I'll be real discord telling me they don't store the data doesn't invoke much trust in me, just paranoia reasoning there

[final geode]

Every other rogue spec nerfed and assassination rises to the top

[sacred oyster]

damn bliz site loading like ass

[lethal turtle]

2 more weeks

[sacred oyster]

https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/article/24246298/second-midnight-pre-expansion-update-notes

[crisp steppe]

there is no reason to trust them.

they're not a serious company. who is compelling them to do this?

[lethal turtle]

I won't trust anything from Discord after I found where the CEO is from

[weary stump]

There is one single reason actually, it's just not enough: wumpus

[crisp steppe]

from israel, who cares

your entire country is pay2play. whoever has money can influence you

[lethal turtle]

You are legit influencing me for free

[crisp steppe]

😘

[lethal turtle]

🫃🏻

[final geode]

Y'all aren't submitting your face picture? Just AI it

[crisp steppe]

sending a picture of the CEO

[final geode]

I'm doing the screen recording one. I'ma send them will smith eating spaghetti

[short sparrow]

sooo are we ever getting anything that means we don't have to manually maintain our poisons?

[weary stump]

Brother that's our one thing don't take it away from us

[final geode]

That's the fun of it though. Coating your weapons in 4 different poisons

[sacred oyster]

are you wanting to do nothing but FOK/Mut > Envenom the entire rotation (except CD's) lol?

[latent kernel]

You guys were using poisons?

[sacred oyster]

or did you mean wep poison application

[final geode]

I think they only need to buff assassination a little more and let crimson spread to 3 other targets

[twilit crown]

They need to merge crimson tempest to fan of knives

[sacred oyster]

3 would be nice. or honestly just merge it into FOK. thankfully whisp confirmed its not a big deal if you over use CT which i def do to not go crazy trying to count mobs

[gritty laurel]

i dunno, i kinda like that there's a choice between CT and FOK. the spec is already extremely simple as is

[short sparrow]

sorry yes i mean applying poisons to the weapons lol

[sacred oyster]

but im curious with todays changes, it looks like caustic is getting nerfed, feels like it would put less pressure on dumping and more focus on spreading?

[short sparrow]

four buffs with a cast time

not just some stat boost either, crucial to our rot

[balmy condor]

it changes nothing

[gritty laurel]

it doesn't really change anything about the rotation because it comes with an aura buff and various other stuff

yeah that

[balmy condor]

you already spread to everything

now you just spread MORE EVERYTHING

[royal lantern]

ultimately it means they want dots to be a bigger part of your aoe dmg

and not just "lol spatter cleave"

which is a good thing imo

[sacred oyster]

i mean, you pull a pack of 15, i lot of times do 2 CTs then dump envenom, even if the first one is 5+ CP, just to help get the bleeds spread faster and ticking across all, then go to FOK>Envenom loop.

but if caustic got dmg reduced, and bleeds got dmg increased, i question if 3-4 CT then Envenom dump would be better play.

[royal lantern]

we allready did spread with CT until everything important had Bleeds

cus in midnight the bleeds do good dmg

[sacred oyster]

so you dont dump envenom until you CT'd everything at all?

[short sparrow]

yeah wa gonna say, i was already CTing until bleeds were everywhere, only then Envenom comes into play

[spice surge]

You dump with envenom yes

But you dont swap CT to fok

[sacred oyster]

ah ok, i thought youd still try to dump it in between the CT's

[royal lantern]

i mean, you gotta envenom when CP are full

[waxen oyster]

Do people not spam refresh poisons between pulls

[sacred oyster]

refresh poisons at start of a key lol, be wild if you take 1hr on a single key

[waxen oyster]

Yeah its an hour buff im not sure how its ever an issue

[short sparrow]

just make them instant

and i'd be infinitely happier

[waxen oyster]

Biggest nonissue

its a bit longer in dtb builds yeah

[short sparrow]

it's QOL, not saying it's breaking my gameplay experience

but it's not in line with other classes

and i don't see what having 4 buffs with cast times adds to the experience

[waxen oyster]

gives something to do between pulls

just castsequence it

[sacred oyster]

i just returned after 15 years of not playing, didnt we have to apply it to each weapon too in the past? so its def better than what it use to be lol. cant say ive been bothered by it. can even 1 button DPS assist to spam hit same keybind to apply them too if dont feel like clicking

[short sparrow]

a long time ago yeah. it had reagents and you had to apply it to each weapon lol

and had to craft them

[sacred oyster]

find a new tank lol? my tank is constantly flowing to the next pack. i barely get to restealth a lot w/o vanish.

[waxen oyster]

I said raid

[sacred oyster]

oh didnt see that

[waxen oyster]

keys you just press the key 4x

before start

[short sparrow]

in fairness being able to cast them while moving would also improve it

[waxen oyster]

chaining tanks is annoying but you can often kill off stragglers and restealth instantly

idk i just watch the combat drop and mash stealth

[final geode]

Chain pulling is the new meta and idk when it became that

[waxen oyster]

It was a dps gain usually anyway in s3

Since you still had ruptures going from last pack for vw

[short sparrow]

i don't even have the energy to ambush so what do i need stealth for 🙂

[runic hinge]

Without ic tied to stealth I’m fairly sure Idc about restealth

[balmy condor]

BFA

[runic hinge]

Bfa dn

[waxen oyster]

I mean energy seems fine?

[sacred oyster]

this is assassination room lol, we garrote.

[waxen oyster]

we dont have infinite energy in aoe anymore

sure

[runic hinge]

I think energy issues are overblown by people who don’t always play rogue and come back for expack release and want to spam on the gcd

[waxen oyster]

Yeah expac launches be full of fotm andys

[sacred oyster]

well from before prepatch to after it was a noticable felt difference

[runic hinge]

In aoe maybe

[waxen oyster]

feels fine on beta tbh

[short sparrow]

so much of the content is aoe with the way it is played

[runic hinge]

There’s like a 2 apm difference in st

[waxen oyster]

if you want an actual slow energy spec

feral

tbh

[left walrus]

Haha you got me 😄

[rare moss]

Yup

[waxen oyster]

rogue does take more getting used to i will agree compared to other melee like dk or ret

who just drool

[sacred oyster]

i get energy starved in ST too in a mythic aoe build. does feel odd standing there letting autos go waiting to pool up energy for CD's

[runic hinge]

Aoe with dashing I thought I was getting a ton of energy back from Fok but yeah idk

And bleed build last season had a ton of doing nothing in ST

I don’t think it’s that much slower

[left walrus]

Do you play improved poisons aswell?

[sacred oyster]

i just hope todays buff is significant, it def felt a lil sad that people with 15 ilvls below me could keep up/beat me in dps

[runic hinge]

Whatever the build on wowhead is I play

[waxen oyster]

real

i copypaste and dont read what a single talent does

[runic hinge]

I also played a lot of feral and a lot of sin so I don’t mind slow specs

[waxen oyster]

if its not a major one

arent the tuning changes for beta

not live

[sacred oyster]

it was listed in todays patch notes

https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/article/24246298/second-midnight-pre-expansion-update-notes

[waxen oyster]

Oh idk prepatch is kind of a nothingburger

i logged in for sale last reset and havent gotten on since

[balmy condor]

the only thing I know

is that the tuning we get today

is meant for beta

cause they just slapped the beta tuning

onto prepatch

even though doing so makes no fucking sense

[waxen oyster]

keys on prepatch seem useless

like whats the point

[sacred oyster]

well the notes least look good for sin lol.

[spice surge]

Theyre also changing the gates on the class tree to match what it is on beta

[waxen oyster]

i havent even checked if i got mailed my sales gold yet

[spice surge]

Why they didnt do that on prepatch release is beyond me

[balmy condor]

yeh

except mage

for some reason

[sacred oyster]

i only just returned to the game 1 month ago roughly, after not playing for 15 years, so content, raider.io score, practice, fun. about to hit 3k tonight.

[balmy condor]

mage doesn't lose 3 points

[spice surge]

Hero class

[jolly stirrup]

Better win that yorik Game sir

[waxen oyster]

does io do anything in prepatch

[spice surge]

Do they even have dps nodes in there

[balmy condor]

no clue

[sacred oyster]

achievements, mounts

3k has a mount is my understanding

[waxen oyster]

I thought they removed it

[sacred oyster]

but i can understand people who are veteran and has everything already not having a point to do em outside of just desire to push keys as far as you can

[waxen oyster]

since season ended

[sacred oyster]

nah its still giving stuff

most my guild is hitting 3k past few days

[waxen oyster]

pushing seems a bit meh when title isnt an option anymore

[sacred oyster]

lot of us hadnt played since 2005-2010 lol

[oblique sorrel]

I’ll never hit title pugging but doesn’t hurt to push as far as you can go

Test your might

[sacred oyster]

why not? sure its hit or miss but keep at it and youll eventually get it, if you can get groups of people who do know the mechs at 12+. 12 keys def are doable in pug.

I only need priory, im at 2996. we had someone disconnect literally at the final room who was the 2nd top DPS and that hurt us on timing :(. and run before that was clean until that final room and deaths got us.
watched a twitch streamer do a 19 last night and final room wiped them out lol.

[drifting cloud]

title is 0.1%

so around 3900

[oblique sorrel]

Title is like 3800 in

[sacred oyster]

ohh

[oblique sorrel]

Yea 3k is doable for sure

[sacred oyster]

i thought you meant triple threat

[oblique sorrel]

Triple threat as in healer dps tank?

[balmy condor]

the thing is like yes if you haven't played in a long time then sure, everythings exciting

[sacred oyster]

yeah

[balmy condor]

but prepatch is such a clown fiesta tuning wise

that it's just not appealing for anyone else

when the raid you just played gets nerfed by legit 40% overnight

it's uh

it's something alright

[sacred oyster]

if they just applied the beta tuning to live, isnt that leaving only the apex talents for differences?

[balmy condor]

and being level 90

and the extra class tree points

and the extra hero talent points

[sacred oyster]

ohh, so we can fill out more of the trees with 90. that opens sudden demise right?

[waxen oyster]

wdym i love my 1:15 kill times

[balmy condor]

no, cause you get 4 spec talent points

those are the apex talents

[waxen oyster]

I have the circus soundtrack looped

when sale night starts

[sacred oyster]

well thats what i meant by apex being the main difference, but in beta do you fill out entire hero tree again at 90?

[balmy condor]

yes

you get 3 class tree points, 3 hero talent points, 4 spec points

[sacred oyster]

what we looking to spend the class points on?

[balmy condor]

cold blooded killer

[royal lantern]

(pls remove the visual/sound effect of that talent)

[sacred oyster]

2 to get cold, and i guess deadened nerves for 3rd?

[balmy condor]

something like that

[sacred oyster]

SnD seems like only other pve combat related option but that heal amount feels too small to care

reducing dmg taken seems more logical

[solar wyvern]

More like our previous class tree could have grabbed cb fi and deeper with 1 point to spare and those 3 points could have gone tea. Then they added more fluff talents in middle XD

(Swift slasher, 4% agi do be nutty greek yogurt tho)

[sacred oyster]

which i dont understand why the builds on wowhead says chosens revelry, that heal amount is laughable (its like 100 health when we have 100k health), i take the other option to reduce dmg.

[balmy condor]

the heal is actually pretty good with the healing changes

[spice surge]

But also youre free to pick whichever utility options you prefer

[balmy condor]

and all the abilities you get hit by are magic

so ya know

5% phys reduction

for when your tank dies

[sacred oyster]

i guess

just pop evasion and finish that last 1% lol, i literally had to do that on nexus princess fight, tank tied at the very last minute

that was an insane fight

but i guess not too bad once you get the mechs down, but was frustrating to learn

but yeah i guess it does make sense to just do the snd one, does no aoe count as physical dmg? iirc FF14 still had physical aoes

[coral ibex]

i love playing a caster and having less armor and also less base hp and eating complete SHIT to phys raidwides

(i get funneled gear first to survive aoes)

[balmy condor]

there is phys aoe

it just

doesn't exist

[spice surge]

Its very rare in raids

Happens a couple of times per season in keys that there is a dangerous bleed or aoe stomp that does physical

But like 95% of all damage you take is magic

[waxen oyster]

dont bleeds ignore armor

[spice surge]

They do

But deadend nerves is not armor

[waxen oyster]

True

phys aoes are so far and few

[balmy condor]

and now with healing changes

you're never overhealing

it's lit

[waxen oyster]

that new class passive kind of rng

as all hell

[sacred oyster]

whats these healing changes? how would it make a 1% every 3s mean anything. if you are sitting there unhealed for 9 seconds to get just 3% back, healers prob dead and not looking good anyways.

[balmy condor]

healing/damage intake is way less spikey

you're basically perma 50-80% hp

[sacred oyster]

the new content isnt near 1 tapping you?

[balmy condor]

no

it's all smoothed out

[sacred oyster]

well thats nice, i see they buffed holy priest today, i was wondering how the hell a cast time based heal would even work on high tier content

[balmy condor]

the same way as every other heal?

[sacred oyster]

i mean vs instant/hot based, like the evoker w/e that cast based heal is, too slow too land if dmg rate would kill the person faster than it can cast

[balmy condor]

I'm not sure we play the same game

most instant cast heals

are just insanely inefficient

[bronze pike]

word of glory for ret

[balmy condor]

yeh

like unless you have to

you're not pressing instant casts

[bronze pike]

@bronze marsh

ive been mentioned

4 days ago

[royal lantern]

ill give it half the season

[severe meadow]

Does that mean we have less enemies to actually kick or is the damage they piss out just tuned better?

[balmy condor]

it's just healers can't take you from 5% to 100% instantly

so the damage intake is smoothed

[static glacier]

Remind me about this in 3 months

I have a feeling this is our 99th time believing blizzard about fixing healing and that it’s cope, like the last x times

They say this shit every expac

[balmy condor]

yeh I mean

based on the raid testing

it seems to be true

we had like 6% overhealing

instead of 60%

[royal lantern]

i mean, what will happen is more likely

that healers dont like it

and complain until its changed

[static glacier]

The thing is for healing to be healthy you need every dps to function like a prot warrior

[royal lantern]

cus "you need to commit for actually healing people to full and have no downtimes" is something many healers cant handle well at all lmao

[static glacier]

We can’t be self sufficient

Like the entire dependency breaks once you add shit like death strike into the equation

Since how is death strike supposed to be fit for purpose if it can’t move your health bar, but then how is healing supposed to be healthy if the healer can top you up immediately

It just doesn’t fit idk

[royal lantern]

are you really complaining about deathstrike rn there?

when blood dk selfhealing hasnt been great or unique for like, 3 expansions now lol

[severe meadow]

I think it was for an example

But could be wrong

[royal lantern]

its just a bit funny cus like

in TWW, prot warriors also where near 100% self sufficent with selfhealing

if anything DK suffered because they gave all tanks so much selfhealing that bloods entire niche of "less mitigation but strong selfheal" just turned into "less mitigation and everyone has strong selfheal"

[waxen panther]

what the hell thsee changes i cant go down on the left side of the tree before its fucked

[severe meadow]

6% seems crazy

Room full of rats type shit

[velvet snow]

why blizz hate rogue

[balmy condor]

what's wrong with rogue

[marsh fjord]

everything

when DS exist

Who ever designed that i want to have a word with

[severe meadow]

It’s just mark really

[marsh fjord]

Yes

Thats DS no?

[severe meadow]

I like DS but blizzard is just stubborn

However, I don’t like it enough to play it xd

FB is just too brain off

[marsh fjord]

i mean if you mean DS withoutmark

sure

but thats not possible

[severe meadow]

Ignore mark

https://tenor.com/view/gigachad-chad-gif-20773266

[marsh fjord]

I remember doing forgeweaver prog

and i told whispyr

bro mark is disspearing on the pillars

[gray raven]

ugh new gating on the rogue class tree

[marsh fjord]

guide went rteally quick to fatebound on that fight

[severe meadow]

Was DS ever good on that fight, I can’t remember now

[marsh fjord]

i mean its better then fb

Since there were 4 targets

[velvet snow]

wdym what's wrong with rogue

class does such little dps

[coral ibex]

you joined this discord just now to post this

complaining about prepatch

[velvet snow]

no

I just want to join the discussion (^;

[severe meadow]

Ours died too fast to get any value outside of the last phase padding

Got more boss damage out of FB

[royal lantern]

sub is/was literally 1 of the prepatch god specs lol

[marsh fjord]

Yeah but in the start everyone played DS @severe meadow

[thorn thorn]

Sin is best and i will take no further questions

[severe meadow]

Jokes on you buddy I played sub for prog

[spice surge]

First week yeah

Then nerf, and now another one

[marsh fjord]

you fucking traitor

you are not worthy of the red name

[severe meadow]

Listen we kinda struggled on Araz for no reason

I played a little sub on NK too but got the kill on assa

[marsh fjord]

bro we had a resto shaman kept walking in the circles that come from the pillars. so we made him tank on a different spec so he coujld soak them for the melee dps

i am not kidding

[severe meadow]

Ngl we got some banger trials coming in for midnight

Recruiting kinda fire when you’re 3x CE

[thorn thorn]

[marsh fjord]

being in a lower WR guild is actually banger content

you laugh your ass off

[severe meadow]

We’re def aiming for higher WR this expac

[marsh fjord]

Yeah our guild is also. we have 2 new officer, we kicked 5 people. trials are coming in now.

[thorn thorn]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-gif-15677826050545973054

[severe meadow]

Come raid with sera and I

https://tenor.com/view/evil-dog-dog-golden-retriever-evil-golden-retriever-golden-retriever-smile-gif-11824514057033619716

[thorn thorn]

I cant bro

Im aotc trash

[errant swallow]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[royal lantern]

Us, every expansion, and then we decide on a random tier to drop 300 ranks for no reason

[thorn thorn]

[severe meadow]

If we fix our roster issues we’d look so much better

But we have people in who are like

Have been in forever / friends

[thorn thorn]

Im aware

Raid with an aotc only guild

You see some amazing things

[severe meadow]

You remember that warlock I was raging about

[royal lantern]

what is consistent progress

on one boss we get top5 lowest pullcount in the world, and on the next boss we drop a couple hundred ranks

[thorn thorn]

Yes

[severe meadow]

He got kicked from the guild

[thorn thorn]

Someone in wyrmrest temple had 700 pulls on dimmy

[severe meadow]

My brain would be so fried at 700 pulls dude

[frank trench]

I don’t mind stealth dmg mechanics but improved garotte existing for m+ will mildly irritate me 60% of the time when we pull that one last mob right into the pack with 3% health my tank is already complaining just knowing it exists lol I’m like chill tf due it’s fine

[thorn thorn]

@ whispyr restealth talk has begun

[balmy condor]

do not

[severe meadow]

I miss !rik

I can’t wait to see the new pins

[marsh fjord]

Restealths are my favorite topic

and whispyr told me in dms

he loves it also

[frank trench]

I love that it’s part of rotation and gives me something to skill gap with

[severe meadow]

Skill gapping with only imp garrote

[marsh fjord]

Imp garrote is more skillful then entire assa kit change my mind

[lean plover]

imp garr is part of assa

red name not knowing that

[marsh fjord]

Can't bait me blue name

[severe meadow]

He’s more of our mascot

[lean plover]

dw i figured that out a looooooong time ago

[marsh fjord]

WTF

Mascot also have feelings youknow

https://tenor.com/view/的9-gif-12565004940729182637

[lean plover]

probably

anyway

whats your takes on the superbowl show drama

[marsh fjord]

My takes is that super bowl is hella lame. and that EU footbal is better

[lean plover]

hallelluyah

man utd drew so that guy wont get a haircut

[marsh fjord]

Yeah

now it resets again 😄

he needs 5 wins again

[lean plover]

from man utd

that guy will have to make his hair straight

[marsh fjord]

Bro i always buzzcut my hair i could never do stuff like that

[lean plover]

just so the pressure from it being on top doesnt kill him

just say you are bald man

[marsh fjord]

WTF

[static glacier]

I’m sorry but did you fail to see the context

It’s about a dps dk’s deathstrike

I’m not talking tanks

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/fell-gif-11242683397767497522

[static glacier]

When I said dps needed to be like prot warrior it meant that we can’t be self sufficient, like a warr can’t be

[lean plover]

one spec having a strong self sustain wont brake healing balance

[static glacier]

You latch on to a specific example but fail to see the larger point

[frank trench]

Not caring about any of the drama that set they used was fire

[static glacier]

If a healer can move 5% of ur hp per fucking spell how the fuck is any of it balanced

[lean plover]

sorry man, u said i couldnt bait you and i took it personally

[static glacier]

Either they make personals dogshit

Or it’s all a lie

[marsh fjord]

You still didnt bait me

hehe

[lean plover]

okay baldie

[static glacier]

And we’re going through the same song and dance

[marsh fjord]

From a greylogger i take nothing personal

[lean plover]

are you trying to insult me by saying i get better logs than i do?

not a good strat

[marsh fjord]

So your worse then greylogging?

[lean plover]

im a - parser

[balmy condor]

you guys are parsing?

[lean plover]

mages parse, hence i refuse to do it

[marsh fjord]

oke mr rank 1 forgeweaver

relax there buddy

[lean plover]

whispyr has it so easy to parse tho

all he has to do is lie on the guide/sims

and take all the good stuff for himself

[royal lantern]

thats why you ignore the guides and feelcraft

[lean plover]

yep, cant wait to use sudden demise in st

to execute the boss

[severe meadow]

Imma feelcraft SD on pure ST

[lean plover]

thats the forbidden tech

[severe meadow]

Blue name gets it

https://tenor.com/view/predator-arnold-schwarzenegger-hand-shake-arms-gif-3468629

[lean plover]

blue name plays a lot more assa

but when blue name entered discord blue name clicked on sub

blue name learnt a couple weeks ago colors go by spec

[severe meadow]

You can change it I think

[lean plover]

blue name refuses to change

[frank trench]

If I was a guide writer I’d publish the wrong talents and rotation the first week of raid get a bunch of 100% parses and then republish

Gods will

[lean plover]

or you can sandbag sims so your spec gets buffed in a -balance- way

[royal lantern]

red name did that and never bothered to change

[marsh fjord]

I heard that whispyr also ddos warcraftlogs assa page so nobody can actually look at the talents used

[royal lantern]

red name doesnt even like red as a color

[lean plover]

blue name and red name did same

blue name and red name make purple

give us purple

[marsh fjord]

blue name for sub

who ever tought of that

that guy needs to be benched

[lean plover]

bc whispyr is purple

and whispyr refused to give purple up

or maybe it was koffing, since koffing is purple

[balmy condor]

wowhead guide quality really has gone downhill since that whispyr guy got promoted

[marsh fjord]

Didn't hear a any truer statement in 2027

[royal lantern]

why does that guy even whisper

mf should speak up if he wants to be taken seriously

[frank trench]

Does a promotion come with the same no money and more work?

[lean plover]

no it comes with new specs

[radiant quarry]

So, sin new bis ST spec pre patch?! been playing sub last few weeks >_<

[lean plover]

like enhacement rogue

[frank trench]

lol