assassination

[hybrid jolt]

people should understand that the stat squish and balancing is targetting level 90.

[balmy condor]

you'd think so

[hybrid jolt]

so doom and gloom as much as you want, ONCE you're 90!

[golden loom]

big cd execute spec when bosses dont even live long enough to get a 2nd cd set off

[balmy condor]

when your best cd sequence is holding deathmark and raw sending a kingsbane on pull with lust

cause it's stronger to wait for 1:00 with DM

and hope it's in execute

and then of course it won't be in execute

so you hold everything until like 1:20

VERY COOL PATCH

[little ginkgo]

its the same ones that still press shiv as a damaging skill

[jolly stirrup]

Wait fr?

[balmy condor]

yeah ofc

zold is way bigger than lust

[jolly stirrup]

Its so joever

[golden loom]

im afraid of doing that

because I know that the boss will die in 1:02

[jolly stirrup]

Real

[balmy condor]

true

[little tulip]

i'm looking respectfully at midnight trinkets

https://youtube.com/watch?v=aTqgYAJOoIc

[balmy condor]

they're all generic and bad

[little tulip]

surely the m+ trinkets are interesting

[balmy condor]

here's every agi trinket in no particular order:

• stat stick
• proc damage
• sacbrood stacking agility buff
• mastery or crit stat stick
• 1:30 haste signet of the priory
• 3min on use damage, cdr with crits
• proc damage
• antenna for agi, but cringe
• 2min haste on use
• haste proc
• summon a dude proc
• 1:30 on use damage
• 2min mastery on use
• 1:30 on use damage
• crit proc

[blazing totem]

https://tenor.com/view/the-incredibles-syndrome-ang-when-everyones-super-no-one-will-be-super-heroes-gif-5389961

[balmy condor]

so slot 1 is either the 1:30 haste, 2min haste, or 2min mastery

and then slot 2 won't be damage, or on use

so we can rule out half the list insta

the stat stick is world boss, so can rule that out too

so you either got the sacbrood, mastery/crit stat stick, agi antenna where you have to chase down ghosts, haste proc, or crit proc

so without even knowing or simming any of the numbers

you got 3 options for slot A, and 5 options for slot B

and none of them are interesting

[golden loom]

full raid of summon a guy trinket users

[balmy condor]

yeah

a minion that does phys damage

SURELY

[golden loom]

bring back the goonsquad

that noone used

[little tulip]

resonant bellowstone looks cool i guess but tuning and 1st best trinkets etc

[balmy condor]

isn't that just stacking crit on proc

also it's from murder row

[little tulip]

yeah chase up time get crit

[balmy condor]

and that's not a s1 dungeon

[little tulip]

fud lol

[hasty gate]

rogue is making me cry

[balmy condor]

sorry to hear that

[hasty gate]

it just feels word ya know

[balmy condor]

I don't know, no

[little tulip]

i used cheap shot in a 19 today

[balmy condor]

[little tulip]

6 second stun

[hasty gate]

to me just feels weak atm

[golden loom]

on prepatch?

[carmine wedge]

Is that a dumb idea to switch the point in DTB (Assa Tree) to Sudden Demise ? (fatebound build, M+)

[balmy condor]

yes

[carmine wedge]

this answers 😄

[little tulip]

if you wanted to could you run bleed build without too many issues though?

[balmy condor]

what is "too many issues"

[hasty gate]

yes first day doing keys in a couple weeks

[balmy condor]

prepatch isn't tuned mate

[hasty gate]

i know just makes me sad

[little tulip]

well is it really far behind the current recommended build?

[golden loom]

tbc launches tomorrow if u want to play something before midnight

[balmy condor]

what is "really far behind"

[little tulip]

just turned off my computer to lizard out after a plate of food but guess simming it in dslice is a easier answer

[balmy condor]

well prepatch sims aren't really supported

bit of a mess

[little tulip]

how big is the hit to boss damage for example probs

[balmy condor]

but if you're doing like a +10 or whatever for fun, the demise damage alone probably makes it viable

boss damage wise you're losing like 10% easily

[little tulip]

it sounds kinda fun honestly getting cds to line up on fatebound was okay but also it wasn't smooth

had a 1 minute finish on a 18 or 19 halls with a havoc/surv hunter and maybe bleed might play a little better even with the hit to boss damage

[static glacier]

Taking demise is 10% jeez

Maybe it’s a hot take: sudden demise should be easy to get, it’s pretty much the one defining difference we have from other dot classes

I guess we can always just go sub or OL for low keys

[hearty seal]

frankly this is a bit of a general rogue problem - a lot of build-defining stuff is in the bottom third of the tree
it's more expressly a problem with the class tree but spec trees also have a bit of an issue there...aside from 'law whose final talents are all kinda lame

[static glacier]

It’s a shame that save for massive tuning if SD costs 10% st it’s a non starter the whole expac

[wise portal]

why blizz so jealous only gives 3% buff to assa

but so generous 8% to unholy？

is unholy really weak？now it do 100k single，but only 60k when it comes to assa

that is unfair，brilliant people can see how far the difference between the two，assa now only need a 8% aura buff at least

[balmy condor]

“Brilliant people” see beta tuning and understand that prepatch is not tuned remotely the same way

Be so serious please

There is no way you’re looking at prepatch numbers and complaining about beta tuning lmao

[wooden basin]

brilliant people

[balmy condor]

So called brilliant people using 1:30min mythic kills to tune an entirely different patch that’s 120 ilvl higher

My brain looks like a god damn Mandelbrot sets

The folds have folds

Infinite surface area in a finite space

[wooden basin]

So called free thinkers

[jaunty notch]

free thinkers when they see a ball pit

[latent kernel]

Seems right nice parse

[wooden basin]

https://tenor.com/view/nice-cock-bowling-gif-18674351

[jolly stirrup]

Now I want Mandelbrot

Nevermind

I thought its a Brot out od Mandel

Boi I was wrong

[hearty seal]

well the major thing here is that the tree itself is fairly inflexible
demise, dtb and dashing are all locked behind mandatory 2-pointers, and while the 2-pointers are fairly good, they also basically guarantee that getting to either is a massive commitment (4 pts out of 10) while only covering 1/5th of the tree itself in a way that doesn't make it any easier to path to other talents
most other spec trees I've seen tend to adopt a different pathing approach for their last thirds, with "all of left side is easy to get if you talent into left side starter, and the same applies to right side", but this is not universal and some specs have similar issues to Assa with pathing and talent exclusivity.

class trees, on the other hand, are basically better for everyone else - mostly because throughput talents in the last third are either far less impactful or far less common or both. I am still wondering why Vigor/Tea are 1) so late 2) so fenced off, while it is more or less mandatory for several specs to function, for instance. Rogue is about the only class where the class tree's last third is not 80% QoL or minor defensive benefits, but 80% major throughput increases (with WoT branch only ceasing to be such right now, otherwise it'd be essentially 100% throughput).

[steel parrot]

Sin energy sustain gets better later on? Im low lvl and still standing a lot of time hhahaha

[wooden basin]

Well we don’t have the apex talents right now so

You don’t get that burst of energy after implacable drops

Oh sorry do you mean you’re leveling ? Yea for sure it feels better when you have more points to fill your talent tree lol

[steel parrot]

Ye im in the 20ish rn

[jaunty notch]

https://tenor.com/view/arriba-gif-12324188786972117417

[coral ibex]

youre ready for the big leagues

[mild pulsar]

how much of a difference do the apex talent make? specially the first

[vocal knoll]

How is assa looking like for M+ after the last changes?

[royal lantern]

dont forget the small part where Beta Unholy and Prepatch Unholy are basically 2 different things

[mellow copper]

!ui

[prisma monolith]

Assassination UI Imports:
Currently not available. Sharing UI's is not as standarized as it was with Weakauras.

For now, browse the following Blizzard HUD and Blizzard CDM imports on Wago:

• Blizzard HUD
• Blizzard CDM

[charred obsidian]

do we have a new beta build to try out?

[snow kindle]

!bugs

!bug

[hearty reef]

120 ilvl higher with way less secondaries

[lean plover]

and 120 ilvl worth of main stat

quit more dmg

[marsh fjord]

@balmy condor did you remove the rik command?

[sharp viper]

!richard

[tender surge]

Can night elf vanish allow you to reapply another improved garrote?

[spice surge]

Never in boss fights, sometimes on trash in m+

[shy heron]

richard is so last expansion though

[marsh fjord]

On m+ in trash you can but you need to drop combat before coming out of it

[tender surge]

Ooo

How hard is it to drop combat? Trying to pick a race

Brand brand new

[spice surge]

Pick whatever looks the coolest to you, it doesnt matter much

[shy heron]

that's the neat part. it's not important how hard it is because it's not important to drop combat every pull

[tender surge]

Good in theory, Doesn't sound particularly awesome in execution

[shy heron]

because restealths don't matter 🙂

[tender surge]

Just good in theory

[marsh fjord]

!restealths

😄

[marsh fjord]

Play mechagnome and asort your dominance over everyone

[tender surge]

Hail your diaper master

I'm leaning goblin. Hoping they look good in leather. Mobility isn't bad for mythic raiding

[strange python]

Void elf best hair best mobility

[tender surge]

I haven't played with that passive. Does it function like venthir Teleport?

[shy heron]

no it's a traveling reticle basically

[tender surge]

So it has a travel time but instant cast.

Hawt damn

[shy heron]

^button press 1       ^wait time in transit          ^button re-press```

[tender surge]

Ty rogue fren

[shy heron]

it's a little different than venthyr teleport but it's useful for getting out of pretty much anything and across death zones on the ground

it aims where your character is facing

[tender surge]

What if I miss the repress

[shy heron]

it fizzles, iirc

[tender surge]

Is it forgiving as far as the portal staying there for a sec.

[wary light]

Yes

[tender surge]

Ah kk

Hell yeah

[wary light]

Waits at the end for a little bit

[shy heron]

I should have a monk laying around that's got it to demonstrate

[wary light]

There's also probably 500 YouTube videos on it

[waxen oyster]

Mobility is pretty much a non issue on rogue.

[shy heron]

yeah probably but OBS is easy to fire up @tender surge

[waxen oyster]

You have step x2 and sprint.

Outlaw has hook which in some cases is better tbh.

[tender surge]

Hey that's pretty good

[spice surge]

Hook is very slow now

[tender surge]

I'm leaning sin fatebound after looking at the trees

[waxen oyster]

Yeah nowadays step might just be better

[wary light]

Hook slander

[tender surge]

Shadowstep requires a target no?

[waxen oyster]

when are you not going to be in range of a target

[shy heron]

yes. friendly or enemy is fine

[waxen oyster]

in a raid setting

if you want to farm tmogs well

[tender surge]

True

[waxen oyster]

druid>>>>

[wooden basin]

Undead supremacy

[waxen oyster]

If classic model undead

modern undead model sucks

[wooden basin]

Real + true + based

[tender surge]

If I make a velf rogue I could lean into a madness tmog. Sounds fun

But idk. At this point I'm just going vibes.

[wary light]

Which is literally the advice yeah

Play what looks and seems cool and race change if you get to top 10 world raiding

[tender surge]

Going all goblins for kiljaeden mate

[waxen oyster]

nah rogue didnt

you just stepped archmage's spare staff

[tender surge]

Hoping the learning/addon onramp for sin isnt too bad. Dot classes can be hit or miss with new UI.

[proven latch]

sin does pretty well imo with the new ui

[strange python]

hi, guys! on beta we still go for fatebound ?

[wise portal]

no bro I'm not talking about prepatch, i dont care about prepatch number

i just said beta assa was,and is weak

how many people really test assa?the single still sucks ok?do only poor 55k ,unholy can easily does 100k

[coral ibex]

i dont care about beta, it will change and is not a permanent version of the game

[wise portal]

m+ data shows how 'great' assa do
i wanna know does assa have 34 bugs like sub that do not deverse buff?

[coral ibex]

you can go nuts being an unpaid beta tester

Beta testing is the next phase, in which the software is tested by a larger group of users, typically outside the organization that developed it. The beta phase is focused on reducing impacts on users and may include usability testing.

[wise portal]

no need to test assa because it has nothing to test

[proven jasper]

[severe meadow]

What Is bro yapping about

[proven jasper]

Complaining about beta tuning is some next level commitment

[severe meadow]

I say we shut the discord down

[marsh fjord]

SHUT IT DOWN

[wise portal]

hah rouge's status is far inferior to that of dk

[spice surge]

Then play DK

[marsh fjord]

Rogue*

[coral ibex]

ok guess its time to reroll DK

gotta pump those beta numbers

[proven jasper]

gl when they get nerfed two weeks in brother

[marsh fjord]

Complaining about beta tuning is like complaining to my boss i have to work to get money

[proven jasper]

My boss should just give me money for existing i think

seems like a good trade

[marsh fjord]

i told him this and he laughed in my face

[wise portal]

dk can't stay at T2, after 25% nerf it found weak so just generous to give 8% buff, but 3%-4% buff for assa

[proven jasper]

Let me text mine and try

he told me mcdonalds is hiring

[proven jasper]

Everything is 🔮 until midnight is actually out

you just gotta cope

[severe meadow]

Ranting on the forums is another great alternative

[wooden basin]

Forum posters are a special breed

[spice surge]

🏄 🏄‍♀️

[proven jasper]

Forums are legit no mans land

[spice spire]

I’d never

[proven jasper]

🌊

[wooden basin]

Death knight is baby’s first class. Little baby class

You just picked up wow ? Arthas 🤯

[spice surge]

A man with true integrity

[wooden basin]

Play a dk

[wise portal]

We all know that the assassin rogue mechanism is relatively complete and there are no major issues, but what is most lacking is the number. Currently, the single damage is far from the average level.

[wooden basin]

Ya bro we hear u

[spice surge]

Then it will get buffed

[spice spire]

I definitely have never terrorized my friends by bdk tanking

[wooden basin]

I would be way way more concerned as would most people here if the mechanics were broken instead of the number

[spice spire]

It is also Mickey Mouse ass prepatch tuning is always all over the place

[proven jasper]

Im going to play my sub rogue dk bongo spec and im going to love it!

[spice spire]

Like yeah if we’re looking so bad at launch sure be concerned

[marsh fjord]

HAHAHAH

[tender surge]

I'm really mad because a YouTuber that doesn't know dick about the game is really mad and I'm unable to form my own opinions what should I do?

[proven jasper]

Probably tell them they smell

[tender surge]

I think I should go to the rogue discord and yell about beta tuning and dks

Maybe then people will like me

[strange python]

I’m glad my oneliner about void elf hair helped ya

[subtle tundra]

if your opinion isnt exactly the same as whispyrs then you should be banned

[tender surge]

Probably gonna be undecided till character select lol

[tender surge]

Bellular told me we should all shit on Chris metzen and ignore his decades long career because one comment.

So yeah now I'm mad af

[thorn thorn]

But eleem my prepatch parses are at stake REEEEEEEEE

Imagine watching bellular in 2026

[fallow canopy]

[coral ibex]

2 things can be true at once

bellular sucks

metzen saying "i regret calling it warcraft" is dumb

[strange python]

Is he still making doomer wow videos

[civic trellis]

he is making videos about an mmorpg
if he doesnt doom he goes bankrupt

[coral ibex]

idk i taught my yt algo to not show me his stupid face

so i havent seen any bellular vids in months

[strange python]

yeah but if he's ever correct, the game dies and he goes bankrupt anyway. so why does anyone waste time on the middle step

[wooden basin]

I don’t think it’s possible for me to ever turn on Metzen

But yeah still a stupid comment

[strange python]

idk why everyone thinks every random oneliner in an interview is some kind of gospel authority take

i say dumb stuff all the time

[runic hinge]

I don’t.

Well except all the times I did

And every dm I’ve sent Whispyr

[tender surge]

I donno I think it's fine to have doubts about your creative legacy. I dont think wow mom should of repeated it

[coral ibex]

the warcraft story has been about war and conflict from the very beginning

that's why its called warcraft

[atomic creek]

Metzen isn't literally saying he regrets calling it Warcraft, did you watch the interview? Because it's pretty obvious what he means

[viscid spear]

Metzen trying to think of what to name a game set in the world of Warcraft

[tender surge]

I mean hes ultimately the loredad. It's fine to wish for more.

Idk if the thought was to go for high fantasy 40k originally, but I think it was close to that.

Turns out you can be more than that

[atomic creek]

He just looked at Warcraft and went "World of Warcraft", it's not like he put some insane thought into the naming

[viscid spear]

Let's be thankful that Warcraft lore isn't as insane and convoluted as Warhammer 40k.

[atomic creek]

And Metzen didn't choose the name for the Warcraft games, that was decided when he got hired

[strange python]

yeah maybe he's just had specific experiences where the way he named it has gotten him shit from marketing or w/e peeps

[tender surge]

Amen brother

[strange python]

like some movie producer says "this will flop because of the name"

[atomic creek]

He just means that it might come across intimidating towards new people who don't know what the game is about

Also since the game isn't JUST about the war

[viscid spear]

https://tenor.com/view/tim-and-sid-tim-and-friends-sid-seixeiro-sid-seixeiro-gif-7648021494333771074

[tender surge]

Ultimately it sounds like a pvp game to the uninitiated

[atomic creek]

I do think it can come across like that to people who don't know what it is

When Holly mentioned him saying it, she was purely talking in the sense of a business standpoint, not about a lore or gameplay standpoint

[tender surge]

Blizzard isn't particularly good at rebranding, overwatch 2 lol

[atomic creek]

I doubt they would ever even step away from the name World of Warcraft, that would be an incredibly dumb decision

[tender surge]

I'm as happy in this era as wow player as I've ever been. I donno maybe I'm copium-ing. But there's so much fun shit going on. I've been playing since launch.

I legit look at doomers and go HUH

[atomic creek]

The problem is that people seem to think that just because a feature is in the game that it means they HAVE to play it

Don't like housing? Don't engage with it, easy

[runic hinge]

Based as hell

[atomic creek]

Also, most of the doomers on socials are Classic players that don't even play Retail

[tender surge]

Classic is uh.. A great bucket for THOSE players to exist.

I'm happy they can have their little rage gdkp parties

[atomic creek]

I'm very happy that we have a place for those people to be so they don't have to be in our groups

[tender surge]

Amen lmao

[runic hinge]

1% commenter on the wow subreddit “I haven’t played since SL but….”

[atomic creek]

I hope Classic+ comes soon, so they are quiet for a bit

[spice surge]

"I dont like current retail wow because theres so many daily chores you have to do to keep up"

Many such cases

[runic hinge]

i wish we had a daily island and i probably sound insane for that but i hate world quests and i love when there's 9 blue question marks in the same spot ready for me to turn them in

[buoyant herald]

Crazy innovation

[tender surge]

I am very very uninterested in whatever the prepatch is doing lol

[buoyant herald]

Let me introduce you to Quel Danas from 2007

[tender surge]

I can't believe I got exalted with them but never once stepped into sunwell

Shit was crazy

[royal lantern]

its called warcraft becase it was orginaly a RTS series

thats it

[buoyant herald]

My brother 🤝

[coral ibex]

what was the premise of warcraft 1

[midnight atlas]

orcs coming through the dark portal

[coral ibex]

for friendly times?

[royal lantern]

RTS game where you have 2 factions fighting with a very light story campaign

and nobody that talks about wc1/2 ever played it anyway

god is that sentence stupid

"what is the premise" its a fucking RTS

stop making bad faith arguments

[coral ibex]

its not a bad faith argument

there is no economic win condition in warcraft

you win by routing your opponent

[mint urchin]

There are a lot of them... Like log in and play the game. How could they expect us to do that?

[coral ibex]

"warcraft sounds intimidating" -> don't make a game about conflict then

[royal lantern]

IT WAS A FRKING RTS

its not a RTS anymore

jesus christ

its a mmo based on the warcraft IP

[spice surge]

Just like the riot mmo will be based on the league IP

In 2032 or whenever it comes out

[runic hinge]

its not coming out

[royal lantern]

it comes out after we got GTA7

they just need to scrap and restart 5 more times

[blazing totem]

I thought it was canceled

[spice surge]

Iirc in like 24/early 25 they made a post that what they had wasnt "original" enough and they were gonna pivot it to something else so we shouldnt be expecting more news for a while

But they still have job listings related to it, so presumably something is still happening

But it might be cancelled in the future, i have no idea

Id guess they were making a wow clone with league skin and then decided that it just wasnt gonna work to do it like that

[supple spindle]

Brother, are playing CIV by any chance?

Economic win condition lmao

[supple spindle]

The most would be toxic mmo (i hate league)

[royal lantern]

which is a bit funny because everyone reacted to that with "but thats what we want wtf"

[balmy condor]

I mean ghostcrawler as head essentially just guaranteed it would’ve been classic wow: league edition

[royal lantern]

IF it ever comes out, it will probably be Black Desert with a League Skin

[weary stump]

All I'm saying is all they have to do for easy money is give paradox entertainment the ability to make a Warcraft or starcraft rts

[spice surge]

I dont think so, think riot has enough capital to make it something new and unique, or cancel it completely if it doesnt pan out

I have no faith in any form of timeframe though

[royal lantern]

"riot" and "unique"

riot

[chilly herald]

Riot uniqueness since s3-s4: let's give every champ a dash

[royal lantern]

the guys that made unique games like

its not Dota

its not CS

its not Hearthstone

and its not a generic tagteam fighter

oh, and dont forget the newest release: its not Magic

[spice surge]

I mean by that definition nothing is ever new or unique

[royal lantern]

nah, but riot is just very blunt about it

[tender surge]

Starcraft hell divers PLEASE

I'm going to blizzcon this year I know there's rumors.

And heroes of the storm has started receiving updates again

[royal lantern]

wait

what

?????????

[tender surge]

YES

https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/feed/heroes-of-the-storm

January 14th 2026

A long list of them

Let's fucking go lads

I'm hyped for blizzcon and what this could mean

Renaming overwatch as well.

Imagine if blizz used it's ip

[severe meadow]

I LOVE heroes of the storm!!

Overwatch 2

!!

[balmy condor]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/838113932551258146/1468893479445987431/F3sxJaUXoAAV48u.png?ex=698655e8&is=69850468&hm=944492a22efa3eb03433b578ea233b541687a9db3452846624036b2f5cef0fc5&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

[severe meadow]

[royal lantern]

tbf

steam reviews

are a giant meme anyway

im pretty sure every single blizzard game just gets nuked into overwhelmingly negative in 1hour after it gets put in there

[balmy condor]

overwatch 2 was omega shit

[royal lantern]

and i will never forget the MH World review drama

where the game got review bombed because they made a single fight that had a elemental requirment

in a game about using the right elements for the fights

[royal lantern]

doesnt matter really tbh, steam reviews are always such a giant circlejerk

[proven jasper]

most of the overwhelming negative ones are deserved idk

like tarkov,overwatch being on steam are jokes

[royal lantern]

ff14 is very positive

the game is actually dying rn btw

1 1/2 SL level expansions in a row

[proven jasper]

Im sure most of those are probably years old now

that game is def dying

[royal lantern]

ye sure, people never update reviews on steam

[proven jasper]

idk a single person who would

[royal lantern]

ye which is like

making the reviews kinda dogshit

cus stuff gets dragged up/down massively by 200 year old "reviews" with 1hour playtime

[proven jasper]

Yeah thats definitely true

[onyx falcon]

im just playing catch-up, but im assuming CT has the same bleed spread logic as before? Its going to prio targets w/ no bleeds first or lowest duration?

[balmy condor]

no bleeds take priority

"lowest duration" isn't a thing

they're all the same duration, by definition

[onyx falcon]

but will it try and prio spreading the bleeds onto targets w/ no bleeds rather than trying to reapply it onto something that already has it?

[balmy condor]

yes

[onyx falcon]

kk ty

[runic hinge]

Np

[latent kernel]

What about in a scenario where you pandemic on your primary target and then you CT, it’ll still prioritize a mob with no bleed over something with your pre-pandemic bleeds about to run out right say if you’re chain pulling

[balmy condor]

Yes

[latent kernel]

And in that scenario is it even worth spreading your bleeds to targets that are low in a chain pull if they don’t tick the full time?

Wondering bc technically you get energy back

[balmy condor]

Yes

I mean the energy you get back is absolute piss

[latent kernel]

So why spread bleeds if they don’t get full value?

[balmy condor]

But CT’s competition is fok

And fok sucks

[spice surge]

During tww you got 10 energy per tick left, now you get 1 per tick left

Aka its fucking irrelevant

[balmy condor]

Even if only get a couple ticks it’s just better

[latent kernel]

Kk wasn’t sure

[mint urchin]

Did you look any further into when we just say fuck it to FoK?

[balmy condor]

CT hits like a truck and does everything fok would do but then also applies bleeds

[latent kernel]

I did not realize it was this much worse💀

[spice surge]

Well it was bugged to give almost 2x it shouldve before

[balmy condor]

It’s just an energy threshold, if you’re going to overcap you’d rather burn the energy by pressing ct

[spice surge]

And they fixed it, and they nerfed it

[latent kernel]

So basically if energy starved and everything has bleeds press fok, if lots of energy and everything has bleeds press CT anyways?

[balmy condor]

Ye

[latent kernel]

Okay next question real quick

[balmy condor]

In like big giga pulls, 15, 20 mobs whatever, you’re still getting 1 energy per tick

• dashing

So eventually there comes a point where you just actually have to press CT for the energy cost alone

[latent kernel]

Why do we take the talent all the way left side of tree that buffs fok if we just CT anyways

In mythic plus

[balmy condor]

Because it’s crazy good and you’re still pressing fok

Also also the alternatives are like

Legit awful

Systemic failure

[spice surge]

25% more damage on mutilate through a dot

[latent kernel]

Okay say super ideal dungeon where you always have enough mobs to keep energy capped, you wouldn’t ever use fok right

[balmy condor]

when a dungeon like that exists, wake me up

but yes, sure

[thorn thorn]

Wait do you just spam ct in aoe

[balmy condor]

not really

[latent kernel]

One can dream

[balmy condor]

even in the era of giga pulling the entire dungeon, I cannot name a single dungeon where you would consistently have 15-20 mobs across the entire dungeon

[latent kernel]

Neither can I was just a hypothetical

That mutilate dmg would be huge there💀

[thorn thorn]

Ok good

I was under the impression it was just spam ct to have bleeds on everything then fok

[latent kernel]

Is there any experimentation done where having a certain threshold of crit makes internal bleeding worth taking over the 2%

[balmy condor]

yes, but as aoe gets bigger, foks cost is too low

and eventually you start creeping up

and need to use a CT to burn

[thorn thorn]

I see

[balmy condor]

I don't understand the question

why would more crit change that equation

[latent kernel]

Like you get 2% crit or internal bleeding from that choice node right

[balmy condor]

yeah

[latent kernel]

So like if you get enough crit value is there a point where the extra 2% is just irrelevant

[placid snow]

Wake me up when assassination does damage in keys

[balmy condor]

98% crit, yeh

you would start losing value

[latent kernel]

So no lol

[balmy condor]

what

[severe meadow]

He is saying no to his own question

[latent kernel]

^^

[balmy condor]

I mean if you're at 99% crit, taking a talent for 2%

would waste 1%

oh

[mint urchin]

Even in this case the pack would die off and at a certain point you would switch back to FoK

[latent kernel]

I was more just thinking with seal fate like if there was a target crit % chance where you could basically guarantee enough combo points to where the 2% isn’t as good as the dot

[thorn thorn]

[balmy condor]

probably dependant on mastery or haste more than the actual crit

but sure, I guess

stat value is far more complicated in practice than that

would also depend on gear available and stuff

like if you're hitting a stat DR then the efficiency of taking the 2% crit and using a different piece and shit

[latent kernel]

In my head it makes sense what I’m saying I promise lol

[balmy condor]

it's a headache

ends up just being a robot question

[latent kernel]

🤖

I honestly just want to use internal bleeding in m+

Just looking for a reason to believe it might be viable

I think it’s a cool ability

[balmy condor]

they're both useless talents

go for it

whether you're getting a 2% talent or a different, equally passive 2% talent

[latent kernel]

True

The frost mage just gonna beat me anyways

[balmy condor]

idk assa seems pretty good on beta

[latent kernel]

I’m talking pre-patch where we are undertuned

Haven’t tried beta yet, played a couple keys on pre-patch then went overwatch

[latent kernel]

I saw all the aura buffs in patch notes but I haven’t tried anything yet

[balmy condor]

yeah logging into prepatch

is recipe for misery

but hey, new prepatch-patch on tuesday

[mint urchin]

That should change somewhat Tues no?

[balmy condor]

which changes nothing

no

literally zero

[mint urchin]

Rip

[balmy condor]

it's still an insane clown patch

[latent kernel]

Don’t mean to sound like a smartass with this, identifying edge cases like this just helps me understand stuff better

[balmy condor]

they're just porting over beta tuning and like talent reworks for some stuff

except because it's still level 80

none of the shit they're porting over

makes fucking sense

yes, they're tuning

but they're taking the level 90 tuning

and just dropping it onto level 80 characters

"good enough"

[latent kernel]

I’m surprised we still even have to level

At what point do they just drop that shit lol

[balmy condor]

never

[latent kernel]

I mean it quite literally adds nothing to the game at this point besides keeping the boost relevant to make money

[balmy condor]

[haughty flicker]

some people still like the rpg part of mmorpg

[balmy condor]

or it's an integral part of an mmo experience leveling through new zones and getting more power

but yeah, could be the boosts I guess

which also get upscaled as the cap increases

so it technically doesn't even really change?

[latent kernel]

I tried the “leveling through new zones” thing today and I made it out of the barrens at lvl 50, and about 20 minutes into dustwallow marsh I was 70

[knotty vapor]

just delete the whole game, play a rotation simulator to see how well you can perfectly press your keys for 5 minutes straight

the rest is all fluff

dont need it

[balmy condor]

okay and then how long till 80

[latent kernel]

I know this is sarcastic buts it’s not even that far off

Didn’t get there yet, but even so 70-80 becomes irrelevant again as soon as midnight drops

[balmy condor]

[knotty vapor]

at this point the leveling process exists to teach new players how to play the game without just giving them their entire spellbook at once. It's the tutorial, and skipping that is stupid.

[haughty flicker]

the 10 levels up to the current lvl cap is always the largest part of the grind

because thats where the new content is

[lament bolt]

This is definitely Nothing Matters Month, go forth and enjoy it

[haughty flicker]

they nerfed how long leveling takes because there are people who dont like it, but keep it in because there are people who do

[balmy condor]

leveling is so stupid
I leveled through the condensed content very quickly
no I haven't leveled through the actual 10 levels of current content why would I do that
🤡

[haughty flicker]

its just how it be

[latent kernel]

Yeah but how exactly is 6 zones considered “exploring new zones”

[knotty vapor]

well, they're new

and you explore them

[severe meadow]

Yeah I think areas should all be as slow as they were when they first released

[lament bolt]

70 to 71 actually takes less xp than 69 to 70 iirc

[balmy condor]

cause.... it's where you're going to... explore the content?

of the new expansion?

[severe meadow]

Let's play every expansions areas

[knotty vapor]

nah yknow what, delete all zones too, everything should be a default plane mesh in a default unity scene

dont need em

[balmy condor]

ffxiv leveling experience

[severe meadow]

Do people actually level on that game

[balmy condor]

need to experience the story from 1978 before even THINKING you could play the game

[severe meadow]

I can't imagine doing the main story from start to current

[haughty flicker]

you have to do the entire story to actually do endgame content

or buy a boost

[severe meadow]

ye I know, I've played since 2.0

Up until a few expacs ago

[haughty flicker]

so yeah people actually level

[balmy condor]

ironically also heralded as the best part of the game by people

[haughty flicker]

you dont normally start a new game and decide to immediately buy a microtransaction to skip a ton of it

[balmy condor]

people love story

[severe meadow]

man the main story was already insanely long way back when

[knotty vapor]

I did it last year, but starting from level 50 or so. It was very difficult to care about the story by the end because I was so braindead from the grind

[haughty flicker]

they did condense arr so its not so insanely long

[knotty vapor]

I played 1.0 to level 50 then quit in like 2014

so I skipped that

[haughty flicker]

but its still a lot of story to get through

[latent kernel]

I think they just give you the skip option if you already completed all the campaign and shi like they do with everything at max level

Why I gotta pay for a boost when I’ve done the campaign over 10 times lol

I can skip undermine and Karesh already

[balmy condor]

[latent kernel]

All I’m saying is that in that regard it’s just for monetization

[balmy condor]

you know you can just

level through other means

[haughty flicker]

leveling between expansions existed long before the boost did

[balmy condor]

I went to 80 on my demon hunter through nothing but timewalking dungeons

[haughty flicker]

timewalking is op

[latent kernel]

No one is saying that you can’t level a variety of different ways lol, the point is why do I even have to do it, I mean they literally let you skip everything else

[scarlet orbit]

shadowlands timewalking made me feel old. Started playing back then

[severe meadow]

Oh random thought, those twinked out level 11 warrior carries are dead now, huh?

[latent kernel]

The only reason they don’t let you skip leveling atp is bc the boost

[balmy condor]

sure bud

[scarlet orbit]

Think they fixed it yes

[haughty flicker]

why didnt they let you skip leveling before the boost existed then

if thats the only reason

[latent kernel]

When did they start selling boosts

Way before all the other skips were implemented

[balmy condor]

think it was bfa? or maybe shadowlands

end of legion?

I forgor

somewhere in that mush

[spice surge]

Wod

I think

[balmy condor]

no shot

[severe meadow]

WoD

[latent kernel]

I think it was wod now that I remember

[knotty vapor]

if the argument is "why dont they let us skip" then honestly yeah probably because of the boost. But at that point you're just arguing "why dont they give us everything for free instead of making me pay for it"

[haughty flicker]

they snuck them in with the twitter implementations

[severe meadow]

You could boost to 90 in WoD

[spice surge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvTo3Jyuye0

[balmy condor]

crazy

[latent kernel]

And before Draneor was panda land which still had that whole leveling philosophy in place, none of the other skips existed

The level boost was really the first skip

[haughty flicker]

notice how this boost still doesnt skip wod leveling

[balmy condor]

the X, formerly known as twitter* implementation

[spice surge]

Well its because it was released during the prepatch

[latent kernel]

Whether or not you can skip to current content or not is kinda irrelevant even if I can skip 1-70 it still saves like 4 hours

[haughty flicker]

his argument is you cant skip leveling new expansion content simply because the boost exists

when boosts dont even skip that content for the majority of the time they existed

[severe meadow]

I remember it taking 4 hours to do a handful of quests

How we have fallen from grace

[balmy condor]

unc

imagine not pressing the solo queue quest button

[latent kernel]

The point is that the boost was really the first of the “skips”, and then that started adding all the other skips, so why they don’t just let you skip leveling atp is literally just for monetization

[balmy condor]

to instantly load screen into a closed instance

where you complete a 15-25 minute quest

in a 5v5 arena

[haughty flicker]

why dont they let me skip the gearing process

let me buy full mythic gear and jump into keys

[latent kernel]

They’re never let you do this it isn’t even comparable lol

[haughty flicker]

that would be great monetization

wdym

if the only reason is monetization

why not monetize it

[latent kernel]

You joke about it like they haven’t been upgrading the gear in the boosts to be better since WOD

[haughty flicker]

just because leveling isnt an aspect of the game you enjoy, doesnt mean the only reason it exists is to extract money from you

[balmy condor]

it's green gear be so for real

this whole discussion has major "why do I need to upgrade my gear if there's better gear next patch" energy

[haughty flicker]

like blizzard is a fucking terrible company dont get me wrong, but saying that leveling in an mmo only exists to make you pay to skip it is very silly

[latent kernel]

True but blizzards whole philosophy for the last 10 years is to make it more accessble for people to only do the content they want to do

Don’t see why this is any different

[balmy condor]

[haughty flicker]

then we go back to my gearing example

why cant i just buy the raid gear i need to go into my keys

[latent kernel]

Wouldn’t be surprised in 5 years if you could

Also see dinars

[haughty flicker]

yeah dinars are super monetized

very true

[latent kernel]

Raid carries

[knotty vapor]

this is such a fucking braindead debate lmaoooo

[severe meadow]

Yeah I don't

[haughty flicker]

where is the official blizzard raid carry service

[latent kernel]

Wow tokens

[haughty flicker]

your argument is silly

[latent kernel]

Pay in gold

[balmy condor]

get owned bel, he got you with the "I'll be right in 5 years just wait"

it's over

[severe meadow]

I don't know if Wapples just hates boosts or hates mmos

[haughty flicker]

!remindme 5 years

[latent kernel]

Wow tokens pay in gold, blizzard banned rmt there’s your answer

[balmy condor]

in my hypothetical future I will be proven correct

[haughty flicker]

rmt was banned long before wow tokens exist

was that also the long con

[latent kernel]

It was to monetize gold buying thru blizzard services

[haughty flicker]

they banned rmt back in classic knowing a couple decades in the future they could sell gold

[latent kernel]

Wouldn’t be surprised lol

[knotty vapor]

in other news i made it through the dark portal after 20 minutes

[fallow canopy]

what am I reading

[latent kernel]

You’re acting like we’re not talking about a multimillionaire company selling a for profit video game lmao

[balmy condor]

absolute peak

[fallow canopy]

I hope its just advanced ragebait

[haughty flicker]

oh its absolutely ragebait

[severe meadow]

Me thinks not

[knotty vapor]

https://tenor.com/view/rage-bait-ragebait-unsuccessful-ragebait-unsuccessful-gif-15226495446096725932

[haughty flicker]

but maplestory down for maintenance

so i play along

[balmy condor]

I mean it's basically just wow forum best hits compilation

[latent kernel]

And they killed boosting in tbc pre-patch… as soon as they released the boost… which is almost like… they released they can monetize leveling

[knotty vapor]

woop, there it goes... maybe later i guess

[haughty flicker]

quite literally the most recent wowhead article is about blizzard removing stuff that prevents boosting

[latent kernel]

After community outrage

[haughty flicker]

oh sorry there was a new one, second most recent

[latent kernel]

Like what do you genuinely think the motivation was there?

For them removing dungeon boosting

As soon as they gave monetized boost

[haughty flicker]

oh im sure it did impact that decision, but you also cant argue that someone paying someone else to afk level them is the same as blizzard wanting you to level and explore their new zones

your original argument is all of that exists just to sell a boost

when all of that existed long before the boost

and is a fundamental part of mmos

[latent kernel]

I mean maybe I can understand the whole aspect of leveling to explore new zones sure, but the is DEFINITELY an aspect of monetization going into that decision

Like if you sat down at blizzard office and had convo about why not to remove leveling, sure the first might be explore zones, but second is most definitely keep the most profitable service relevant

It’s just business

[knotty vapor]

https://tenor.com/view/idiots-idiot-no-intelligent-life-buzz-lightyear-toy-story-gif-12637964375483433713

[latent kernel]

It’s sole reason for existence might not to be to sell a boost I’ll concede there, but as for one of the main reasons it’s still in the game, gotta be for monetization

[haughty flicker]

well the second would be that the same people who are complaining about leveling would immediately complain about having nothing to do on launch

after one of the main things you do at the launch of an expansion is removed

[latent kernel]

True but you have to admit, there is an aspect of money involved, they probably make a ridiculous amount of money on that boost lol

And by increasing the cap every xpac it just is a constant revenue stream

[haughty flicker]

nowhere near as much money as they make just putting the brutosaur up once a year

also like

i dont use the boosts so i may be wrong here

but dont they not even boost you to max level until later in the expansion

like you arent skipping the leveling anyway

[latent kernel]

You skip the previous 80 lvls

[haughty flicker]

the previous 80 levels takes 17 minutes

like i said before, the focus is always on the 10 levels to cap

those take longer than all the previous levels combined

[latent kernel]

It takes a few hours be honest, and you know how many people will pay not to do that shit for a few hours lol

[haughty flicker]

well but

the point is

if the boost isnt even skipping the content we're talking about

how does that content exist to monetize a skip

[latent kernel]

I was talking about all of leveling, I can get the current shit having to do it, but I think the 1-70 shit just monetizes the boost

If you trial a character you get the same intro to the class as a tutorial

[rotund marsh]

is assa fun rn to you guys?

[lethal turtle]

Beta it is yeah

[rotund marsh]

oh wow the apex is cool

energy gen must be super nice

a lot less downtime in general with that compared to previous seasons? or nah

[lethal turtle]

Certainly downtime in the spec. Pooling certainly matters

[glacial relic]

Energy gen is overrated from apex, its not a game changer or anything

[rotund marsh]

hmm, was testing in prepatch and the energy feels like ass

hope it at least feels better with that lol

[wooden basin]

It’s not that big of a diffy

Assa just slower now by design

[rotund marsh]

oh..

[wooden basin]

But what the apex does do is finish that loop

[glacial relic]

You go smash those buttons until you burn tea charges then its low apm gaming

[rotund marsh]

rip, welp

[lethal turtle]

Always got outlaw if sin is the opposite of your preference

[rotund marsh]

outlaw is an entirely different spec now it feels like, ill have to learn about it more

but yeah i've never been a fan of waiting 3-5 seconds to be able to press abilities again

[wooden basin]

Outlaw was on meth now it’s just on adderall

[lethal turtle]

Yeah kinda like outlaw more now

Still favorite was S1 DF in recent memory

Good time to learn now tho TUBE

[rotund marsh]

but you wont be sitting still waiting to have the privilage to press a button?

[wooden basin]

As outlaw? Nah never

[rotund marsh]

i saw you dont have infinite uptime on abilites anymore

[lethal turtle]

You always slamming something Outlaw

[rotund marsh]

oh ok

[jaunty sky]

Unless u roll 1 buff

Then it kinda sucks

[lethal turtle]

True

[wooden basin]

I haven’t tried new outlaw yet maybe I should play around with it

[rotund marsh]

so for assa you only apply bleeds at the start of combat?

crimson tempest applies for the rest of it?

[marsh fjord]

And when they run out you re apply

and CT again

[rotund marsh]

just on one and then ct i see

[marsh fjord]

Yes

[rotund marsh]

i like that change, not having an actual aoe spender feels a bit odd

[marsh fjord]

You dont have to manually spread anymore

[rotund marsh]

but its just envenom i guess

[marsh fjord]

Your aoe spender is envenom

[wooden basin]

Yeah envenom (caustic) does a fuck ton of damage

[marsh fjord]

because it does CS damage

[rotund marsh]

yeah its nice

[wooden basin]

Rip CT twice bc it’s a lot of energy and we aren’t flush with it and just slam envenoms

[rotund marsh]

yeah i need to just think of the class as how outlaw works lol

your ST is your aoe

without old crimson tempest, is sudden demise shit now?

[wooden basin]

at least caustic isn’t from mutilate anymore. that was actual poopy butt

[marsh fjord]

SD isn't shit, but getting to SD is shit

[rotund marsh]

i didnt even check what they did to CS

let me go check

[rotund marsh]

hmm, sacrifice a lot of damage for it i assume

[marsh fjord]

yeah

[lethal turtle]

Give us another aura buff and nerf the top specs

[night delta]

Turns out we can't really afford turning down Dashing and Zoldyck 2 huh

[mint urchin]

They just made assa less annoying to do the same thing it already does

[night delta]

Multidotting ?

As a dot spec, it kinda is the point tho, isn't it

[mint urchin]

Applying caustic is less annoying, spreading dots is less annoying, doing AOE is less annoying. All of it

Well applying caustic and AOE is the same but w/e

[night delta]

Yeah, that's one of the reasons i came back after leaving near the end of DF

[lethal turtle]

One day we will bring a throughput raid buff so we can be auto meta m+

[earnest remnant]

just be tuned higher than any other class

[night delta]

Literally this

Any dps spec that brings in a dps buff has more dps contibution than rogue by default, even when severely undertuned

Well, the 1st representative of that class anyway

[earnest remnant]

@balmy condor whats your favorite number?

[balmy condor]

I'm a big fan of 111, 55, and 73

[cunning needle]

what about your favorite fraction

[balmy condor]

111 cause if you square it, its 12321, which means 111 * 111 = 12321, all palindromes

55 is a fibonacci number

but also a triangular number

[earnest remnant]

best number is 9

[balmy condor]

and 73 is a mirror prime

[urban fern]

Whispyr over here with the craziest, smartest favorite numbers

meanwhile I like 42 because it was Cartoon Network on the TV when I was a kid :p

[earnest remnant]

cuz when you take 9 and multiply it with any 2-9
and you take those two numbers and + them
its 9

[balmy condor]

what

[earnest remnant]

9x4 =36
3+6=9

[balmy condor]

oh

sure yeah

[wooden basin]

67

[shy pecan]

[wooden basin]

Are we able to see overall damage on blizz damage meters?

[solar wyvern]

Ye

[wooden basin]

I am just blind I guess I can’t figure it out

[balmy condor]

Ye

[barren yarrow]

am I just bad, or does pre patch for M+ feel like we are worse off than before?

its totally possible im bad

[storm wave]

Would be nice if atrophic poison gave armour pen or something

[lethal turtle]

Sucks they don’t balance around m+ and raid buffs

Sad boy

[grave osprey]

Who said they dont?

[lethal turtle]

[magic summit]

Dose sin have execute anymore?

[buoyant herald]

Yes

Hasn’t really changed

You still get zoldyck for more poison and bleed damage and blindside for lots of ambush procs below 35%

[magic summit]

Yesh okey need to read about How it plays seems cool atm on pre patch just changed too it

[magic summit]

Yesh that's cool

Never played sin before but it bring more simple to keep stuff up is nice

[buoyant herald]

Yeah

[magic summit]

Need to work out the apex talent stuff but it's basically Pool then burst then pool?

[buoyant herald]

Yeah you want to hit 5 envenoms then let the buff drop to proc the regen, so there’s a bit of a flow to it. Otherwise at least in single target it’s very much the same as it has been

[magic summit]

Yesh okey so kinda what I was thinking 🙂 want to spend above 250 eng still?

[buoyant herald]

The only pooling I think will be to ensure you’re able to string 5 envenoms together at a time. I haven’t played enough beta to know how hard that’s gonna be energy wise

[magic summit]

Too easy! Works for me

[buoyant herald]

I think it’s going to be pretty forgiving if you can only get to 4 though

Aoe is the real winner

in terms of qol

Stealth is a small buff to garrotte damage but not like. Critical for even doing aoe

[balmy condor]

In terms of actual “pooling”

There is no such thing

[magic summit]

Yesh that's the big one for me I play Bear phys so playing sin is a meme but hey 🤔

[buoyant herald]

So we’re not even playing around the apex talent? It’s just fun bonus for hitting buttons?

Or is it one of those feeble human hands things

[balmy condor]

No, we’re playing around letting envenom drop

Hit 5 and let it drop is correct

But there’s no actual pooling involved

You press envenom, it drops, you repeat

[buoyant herald]

But not pooling at that stage to ensure you’ll be able to get to 5 again?

[balmy condor]

Nah

No point

[buoyant herald]

Neato

[magic summit]

Kinda cool

[balmy condor]

The other way to think about it

Is that the apex is adding an energy buff to envenom’s buff

Like a delayed dashing

So every envenom you cast inherently gives you that energy back

Granted you don’t overcap on the buff

And because every envenom is giving you the energy back, pooling isn’t actually relevant

There’s no “end” that you’re pooling too

[naive scroll]

Think they'll change how that works so you don't need to wait 5 seconds after getting 80 stacks to get the buff? Just feels weird to play it like that and not good

[balmy condor]

No

The only thing they might change is nerf the duration of envenom by 1 second

But the fact that they haven’t already done that so far

Probably means they don’t give a shit

And we’re just back to 3 billion % envenom uptime again as per usual

Blizzard and being incapable of making envenom’s buff not perma uptime

Like peanut butter and jelly

[buoyant herald]

It’s been so long it’s kind of all I’ve ever known with assass now

[marble hemlock]

maybe theyll "fix" it by making a talent that lets you stack envenom buffs or smth

[grim jay]

Saves time because the tracker doesnt need to be good

[static glacier]

Maybe the part of TTK that needed to go was the duration, not the stacks

Idk though, the issue is poison application has become such a fringe thing, only really mattering for KB, everything else isn’t actively played around

[grim jay]

Tbf poison application with the current state of poisons is probably the least interesting part they could make your gameplay about

[static glacier]

Agreed, the thing is back in the day when sin was more bare bones pooling for maximising applications under env actually did real damage + I even remember the archimonde trinket for sin reinforcing pooling and chaining envs

Idk where aoe went wrong but it did at some point where poisons stopped doing the majority of your aoe, im guessing it was legion times with rupture spam

[grim jay]

Well legion had your pb go insane

So there is that

[static glacier]

Agonizing poison memory unlocked

But ye id say that was the beginning of the end for healthy sin aoe, and it carried over til late df xd

[grim jay]

Imo there should really be a poison finisher that somewhat scales with your bleed count

So it works together with your multi dotting

[static glacier]

What about poison bomb being guaranteed at the end of env chains?

The more you chain the bigger it gets

[grim jay]

And spatter remains to be a cleave option

[static glacier]

They’d need to give it a hard cap, otherwise it becomes cringe in lust

[grim jay]

Idk I like finishers and it kinda feels empty on the poison front

With just envenom doing it all

Now that ct is a builder aswell, it would be reasonable to get a poison finisher

[static glacier]

Shiv was kinda it

Somewhat

And now it’s gone

[grim jay]

Could also integrate a mechanic like that. Poison finisher that applies a debuff to all enemies hit scaling with targets affected by bleeds

Maybe increasing in potency through your envenoms used while its up

But that might also end up kinda complicated

The gameplay implication would be interesting tho

Would singlehandedly make aoe more interesting without removing any of the current gameplay foundation tbh

[old lily]

is fatebound recommended for m+ too in prepatch?

[balmy condor]

Ye

[old lily]

oh shi time to go exploring i guess

thanks 🙂

anyone know if someone potentially made a video on rotation stuff since a few things seems to be different

[balmy condor]

deathstalker is kinda unrecommended just because it plays like ass

I would've made a video but I got insano sick the last week

I think shindigg has an overview of all 3 specs

assa is fairly unchanged

[magic summit]

And you got sidetracked with Voodoo memeing in the Aug discord

[magic summit]

He dose its a 12 min overview of all 3 specs

[balmy condor]

I can shitpost on the artichoke man from my deathbed

I can't yap and cough for 20 minutes about assa

[magic summit]

Hahahah it was cat posts I loved it

Was funny

[thorn thorn]

A very serious discussion was happening

Voodoo doesnt know the difference between a leek and an artichoke

[magic summit]

Hahahah it was a funny wTch man you where there too :p

[hollow dirge]

this should straight up be pb. thought about this many times, active pb that scales with dots per target

[winged gust]

damn i thought deathstalker used to be best for M+ what changed that made it shit?

[blazing totem]

they made Mark management even worse

you can potentially brick yourself and lose your mark

so you play without hero tree

[winged gust]

no way wtf is blizzard doing

[blazing totem]

even if you dont lose it, you are stuck to whatever you hit first

till you can darkest night out

[hollow dirge]

super hard to make it a buff on player instead of all these shitty attempts , patch to patch, to make it somehow work

lets be dumb and invent a deathmark redirect ability before realizing we're dumb af and put it on players. Feels like we did this before

[balmy condor]

fatebound isn't 30% behind in AoE anymore because it has actual aoe talents

and the mark is even more shit

so like, yeah you used to have to play deathstalker in m+ before

even with the garbage ass gameplay and janky mark

but that was mostly cause fatebound was unplayable dogshit numerically

and now, the worst case with fatebound is you gain boss damage but deathstalker is a couple percent ahead in aoe

and that tradeoff is way more manageable and probably even preferrable depending on the single target gain

just not enough of a gain there to justify ever playing deathstalker unless you're a masochist freak

[winged gust]

oh shit thats cool

[winged gust]

LOL great way to describe it

[viscid spear]

https://tenor.com/view/pirate-ship-arr-leek-in-the-boat-leek-cloudy-with-a-chance-of-meatballs-gif-12107967

[spice surge]

that assa gets the sub tuning treatment where deathstalker is worse numerically everywhere

[keen mantle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDku-9pBRx8

I helped us

[lean plover]

our hero

how bugged is blizz details to show demo rogue lmfao

[keen mantle]

oh wait

that was the sub rogue key

i thought it was the assa

[lean plover]

doesnt rly matter, u are still 75k dps behind

[keen mantle]

its ok i played my main after

[lean plover]

beating the otp allegations

[old lily]

anyone else having issues where sometimes nameplates show up, sometimes they don't and somethimes they show up with debuffs on

here i only get 1 but i also don't get any debuffs on the plate

[violet hemlock]

Do u have multiple nameplate addons that are conflicting

[old lily]

i used plater (i haven't played for a while first time logging in since prepatch) i also have elvui still on but i belive plater is set to the default

[lucid rune]

Anyone playing sudden demise in beta?

[night crag]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[weak isle]

do u even do dmg? that is a rough one

[blazing totem]

it's just troll rn

feel good talent for lower M+, you lose ST as a tradeoff

[lucid rune]

Is that also the case in prepatch?

[blazing totem]

I am pretty sure, yes

[keen mantle]

Thats the max

[weak isle]

That's crazy, 8% nerf btw

On a pretty decent dungeon for sub

[frank trench]

I would 100% prefer more boss dmg and a slight decrease in AoE anyways. In m+ extending boss fights in high keys is absolute hell at a certain point.

[weak isle]

I'd say

[wide widget]

So what is blizzad's design phisolophy, if a class has specifically 3 dps specs, no brez, no lust, basically no raid buff, shouldn't it at least do a truckload of dmg

[frank trench]

You have a raid wide damage decrease

In your poison

Is there a missing utility…..yes group stealth skips are too niche imo. There should be something. Like cloak a friend or a spell called trick the witness or something catchy where you can pull all dmg to you and cloak for a friend like sac bubble.

Literally anything

[wide widget]

i like that idea

[blazing totem]

there is a lot of room they could explore for rogue

personally I am still silently hoping for 4th "Apothecary" spec for Rogue that could brew concoctions/elixirs and throw them at people for good or ill

at that point you can just give rogue raid buff in form of 2% haste from Invigorating concoction or smth

[frank trench]

Well most classes have 2 things they bring. Rogues only have one damage reduction and a make people invis before a pull. So at least toss us a one person bone spell

[blazing totem]

iirc tricks also boosted dmg of the targeted person back in the ancient days

rogue had mini PI

I think it was a glyph

[frank trench]

Bro

Seriously?

I would kill to be able to mini pi someone

lol hunters get misdirect, lust, AND mark

[blazing totem]

yeah back in classic

I mean it was just 6 sec so

baby PI

[frank trench]

My god

That’s sick bring that back lol