#assassination

1 messages · Page 2202 of 1

winged sun
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Ur so clueless its crazy

normal mist
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that bleed is not worth it

winged sun
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Its way bigger in lower keys what are u on about

shadow shuttle
strange surge
#

assassin is 4th on melee picks in high keys, i think top players know better than you.

thats not counting ranged

loud light
#

for fatebound, before (to buff the flips on deathmark). if you're talking deathstalker then after

normal mist
#

Most likely yes @shadow shuttle

winged sun
strange surge
#

no

shadow shuttle
#

cooll thansk!

winged sun
#

U sound like someone who gets baited by tier lists

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No offense

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Sin is the strongest m+ spec in the game rn by atleast 30%

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Im sure u dont do enough keys to know that anyways

strange surge
# winged sun No offense

im getting replies from other rogues in THIS DISCORD RIGHT NOW confirming what im saying, you're the only one defending stealthing.

You're the person who jacks off to 100 logs, sit down man.

winged sun
#

?

haughty flicker
winged sun
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I do r1 keys i think i know what im talking about

static glacier
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yes lmao, but wtf group is going to run 3x sin

winged sun
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Gonna just head back to bed low io talk is crazy omegalul

normal mist
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Why is it a problem to talk about low io

strange surge
static glacier
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to be perfectly clear

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a majority of our aoe is spatter / ct

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we don't NEED restealths

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and the loss is primarily in terms of feelsbad

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you dont lose that much

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from good chaining at all

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if anything you do more dps since you have more mobs to hit

strange surge
#

holy fuck, close to 200k messages kekW

image.png
static glacier
#

he's a sweat

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you can trust him

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like if a chain lets ur dk and mage hit 12 mobs instead of 3

winged sun
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In aoe packs that is

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If ur playing assa wrong thats on you

static glacier
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you need to remember ur 1/3rd of the dps and you would rather hit 12 mobs than 3

normal mist
static glacier
#

even if youd have to commit a vanish charge to speed up spreading bleeds

loud light
#

if you're arguing with zeross you already know it's going to end with him saying you suck at rogue and the guides are all wrong because they're not for r1 keys

strange surge
loud light
#

this is sorta what you guys get for engaging

winged sun
static glacier
#

even without a vanish youd fok rup a few times to keep energy going and start blasting envenoms

winged sun
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Everything is based on being good

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If ur minmaxing restealths i assume ur already good at the game

normal mist
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i minmax restealths because they feel good

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and i dont like to manually spread 5 ruptures

static glacier
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nalv, what are you trying to get at man

winged sun
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Unless ur making up minmaxes because u wanna feel like ur doing something

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Also

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Its not 5 ruptures

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U rupture everything in m+

static glacier
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3x sin would want restealths

winged sun
static glacier
winged sun
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Wouldn’t bother

static glacier
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ye with 1 its whatever

winged sun
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Ye no shit

lunar solstice
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can someone pls help me with my parse before i eat the insluation in my walls

winged sun
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That pull is just spatter ct dmg

normal mist
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i cant do log reviews

winged sun
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Maybe u guys haven’t seen ptr sin at all

normal mist
#

not good enough

static glacier
winged sun
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At max ilvl sin does like

normal mist
winged sun
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50% more dps

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Than everything

lunar solstice
static glacier
static glacier
winged sun
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Of ptr

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Genuinely curious

thorn thorn
static glacier
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yes

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sin wasnt 50% ahead xd

winged sun
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?

static glacier
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watched casual

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on ptr

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anyways, ill take you at your word

lunar solstice
static glacier
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provide me a log or vod with this level of damage

grave trail
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the whole no need to resealth just spread ur bleeds 1 by 1 smile argument is so disingenuous

static glacier
winged sun
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This is the best ptr comp atm

static glacier
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the idea is you have a few mobs remaining with ruptures on

winged sun
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Thats sin ptr dps

static glacier
winged sun
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On all keys except dawn and streets

thorn thorn
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40% isnt 50 but its still a lot

modest trail
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It's bugged in the middle of the mythical game, it's not activating.
Does anyone know anything?

image.png
static glacier
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and thats 40% ahead with pi

spice surge
grave trail
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people saying chain pulling infinite with no restealths is equally good or not that bad as getting a stealth

spice surge
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Pick the other talent

winged sun
weary spear
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Envenom spam with scents stacks isn’t your damage breakdown with bleed build you guys know how this works, right?

grave trail
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brother what?

ashen totem
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mfw when hes been talking about 50% ahead on dps, then links not 50% ahead on dps

frosty bridge
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!up

prisma monolithBOT
winged sun
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Its like saying enh in s1 tww doing 30% more do we account for pi?

static glacier
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bro if we're being real sin is somewhere in the 30s ahead

weary spear
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Restealths and bleed spreading with shiv is the damage breakdown

static glacier
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and lowkey i suspect there's player diff

earnest remnant
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my guess would be he is using 50% as a way of just driving home the point of how much better it is, ofc its not actually 50% if it was blizzard would have old yeller'd it

static glacier
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regardless ye we agree zeross, sin is broken

winged sun
static glacier
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for these higher keys

winged sun
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Like who gives a shit about +10 keys if u do +10 keys u can do them without a healer and without a tank too

normal mist
winged sun
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Bleed always, dawn and streets u play sub

winged sun
normal mist
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i believe you keep forgetting that single point

strange surge
midnight mist
winged sun
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+10 keys dont matter

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Zac

frosty bridge
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!up

prisma monolithBOT
winged sun
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This guy thinks comps matter in +10

modest trail
winged sun
thorn thorn
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+10s are also where most of the players are FeelsGoodEnoughMan

static glacier
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who's talking about comps in 10?

spice surge
earnest remnant
thorn thorn
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Comp never mattered in 10s

winged sun
weary spear
winged sun
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Just wait till we start pushing

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And people will start copying us all over again

thorn thorn
static glacier
tall jay
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so, raidbots is still siming Jastor...hmm, i have 4 hero rings as well

static glacier
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the thing isn't that restealth isn't good for you, it's that the overall group gains more from chains

earnest remnant
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its just not "bad" if its done right

thorn thorn
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But the essence of the quote remains

earnest remnant
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so if you chain a pack with 4 mobs still alive at like 30%

winged sun
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Idk who kess is

earnest remnant
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its very good

winged sun
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Never heard of him in top m+

thorn thorn
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Is his character name

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He goes by Kess

earnest remnant
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DH/dragon

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iirc

thorn thorn
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He play dragon yea

static glacier
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attack his argument

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not his character

normal mist
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Mission impossible

winged sun
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Mo idc what he says or who he is everyone copies what top m+ers do eventually

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Its always how it goes

thorn thorn
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I think most top M+ers will tell lower level players that copying them isnt worth it

static glacier
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sure people copy if they['re pushing

winged sun
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And the playstyle in top m+ is the same as low keys this season

thorn thorn
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Even Dhanglin has told people that the stuff he does for Pres is sometimes only applicable to high keys

static glacier
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i think copying pushers if you're doing weeklies is dumb af

strange surge
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Most people dont just copy them. But if something is strong, the overall community will gravitate toward it for the same reason top players do.

static glacier
thorn thorn
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The reason isnt always the same

static glacier
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what is good at +10 is not whats good at +20

winged sun
thorn thorn
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Most of the time people have a lack of understanding

humble verge
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well lads

static glacier
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like I wouldn't dare argue with these push players about 20s bc i simply don't do that content nor do I have interest in doing it

humble verge
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looks ill have to play sub

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for the forseeable future in raid

static glacier
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I can discuss the theory of the spec

humble verge
jade saddle
winged sun
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This channel has exceeded the amount of daily cooked takes

strange surge
static glacier
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but when it comes down to it these people spend like 1k hours in keys above 20, i spend 0

thorn thorn
winged sun
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Everyone thinks they have perfect understanding of m+ dps by doing 3 keys a month

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💀

strange surge
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@winged sun you should tone down how you talk to people. You REEK of elitism. Extremely toxic

midnight mist
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@winged sun you should tone down how you talk to people. You REEK of elitism. Extremely toxic

strange surge
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like i automatically dismiss every opinion you have, when you talk the way you do

winged sun
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Relax stop calling me words bozo

static glacier
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AHAHAHAHHA

haughty flicker
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@chicken soup you should tone down how you talk to people. You REEK of elitism. Extremely toxic

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ono

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i goofed

thorn thorn
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@chicken soup you should tone down how you talk to people. You REEK of elitism. Extremely toxic

midnight mist
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goofy ass

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x2

winged sun
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True

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Fr fr

haughty flicker
static glacier
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tbh you should tone it down a bit, regardless of being right or wrong

winged sun
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Zac hes not a rogue too no cappy

thorn thorn
winged sun
normal mist
thorn thorn
#

I stg if your profile pic is for some shitty pun

haughty flicker
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i miss jerry

runic hinge
static glacier
#

his pfp is cap

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xd

thorn thorn
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Zeross replaced jerry for cappy

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Unreal

humble verge
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lads

main bridge
humble verge
#

do i buy 7 wowtokens

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and have no gold left

storm forum
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Yes

winged sun
humble verge
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to preorder midnight

winged sun
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So i did it no cappy

humble verge
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is this context

harsh harbor
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!loot

prisma monolithBOT
thorn thorn
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His profile pic is usually jerry from tom and jerry

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And now its cappy

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He replaced jerry for cappy

humble verge
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pocketwatching

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his pfp

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is crazy

thorn thorn
weary spear
humble verge
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well

thorn thorn
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Its part of having the tism

humble verge
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i didnt even notice it was him

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since he has his name as chicken soup

strange surge
storm forum
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I should change my pfp.....

runic hinge
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Back to dog?

humble verge
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i have not changed my pfp once

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since imade this discord account

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its always been ZULUL TotalBiscuit

thorn thorn
humble verge
storm forum
#

Maybe back to dog, maybe back to disc cat, maybe back to some weeb shit

runic hinge
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I have never changed my pfp

haughty flicker
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glorp

thorn thorn
storm forum
lusty narwhal
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Haranir racials being touched on, no mention of undead buffs fmlagony

thorn thorn
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Good

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Undead are nasty

lusty narwhal
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Awful take

strange surge
storm forum
main bridge
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undead is the purest and best form of rogue

thorn thorn
lusty narwhal
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Undead rogue is a staple of the game

weary spear
main bridge
normal mist
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the old models were better for that i believe

thorn thorn
strange surge
weary spear
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You guys do know how much damage you get from a carnage window right lol

humble verge
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im wondering

runic hinge
humble verge
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has rwf viewership kinda died off

main bridge
humble verge
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i remember when it was like

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100-200k

storm forum
thorn thorn
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Or the people who play undead

weary spear
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Your garrote talents are wasted, sanguine goes way down. Restealths matter less if your damage breakdown is caustic heavy. Which isn’t bleed build

main bridge
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you also have two charges of vanish

weary spear
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Yeah but we assuming someone is dry for the chain pulls command are we not?

thorn thorn
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I do terrible chain pulls out of spite when I have a rogue in my party

main bridge
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i don't think we really discussed what kind of chain pulling or tanking is happening

weary spear
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Well chain pulling with vanish is the same a restealth so that’s not part of the convo

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It only matters if the pack is dangerous enough that you need to kill it before it kills you tbh

loud light
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so I think the exhausting part is that whispyr / "the sim people" do a lot of work to try to get this stuff working and have some math behind the advice, but then when someone says restealths are super important there's literally no rigor put into it (maybe they are the lazy ones?) so you're arguing past each other

strange surge
main bridge
weary spear
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If a rogue does 5m less dps on a pull it won’t break the timer, unless that 5m dps was needed to survive

earnest remnant
thorn thorn
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Thats funny as hell

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Also lets not pretend sin is the only one that hates terrible chain pulling

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Aff hates it too

spice surge
sullen fjord
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yo guys, if im horde do i have to buy race chance or faction change in order to change to Nelf

thorn thorn
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Faction

weary spear
normal mist
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faction

weary spear
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Unless you’re going into a dangerous pack where you might need the extra damage

thorn thorn
hollow fulcrum
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so in raid do I shiv with 8 seconds of kb or dm

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with 4 piece fatebound

strange surge
normal mist
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2 then 1 then 2 then 1

vocal seal
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yo i did the thing where i press ambussy more and indeed it did the trick of splatter higher !!!

Screenshot_673.png
strange surge
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2 mobs, 15% hp, next pack is 1 blink distance away. Do you press W?

normal mist
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1 shiv KB is always at last 8 secs

frigid lagoon
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People in here really needing more than 2 vanish charges is crazy

hollow fulcrum
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wdym 2 then 1

normal mist
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you cant have 2 shivs for every kb

hollow fulcrum
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do you mean 2 during dm and 1 during the second one cuz of cooldowns

thorn thorn
normal mist
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yes

hollow fulcrum
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ah ok

normal mist
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so you either do shiv kb and then finish with another shiv at last 8 seconds

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or just at last 8 seconds

main bridge
hollow fulcrum
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ahhhhh ok

steady chasm
#

i only have 2 pc, and deathmark keeps dropping and giving me darkest night way before the time expires, is this a bug or a part of my class i dont understand yet

thorn thorn
hollow fulcrum
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i was wondering if i save for next dm or just send but thats nice to know

strange surge
hollow fulcrum
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i also wondered if i trolling by shiving before kb but not the last 8 seconds when i only had one up

thorn thorn
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Infernal strike is the best movement ability in the game

vocal seal
thorn thorn
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Because it can take you from one pack to the dungeon entrance in 1 global

strange surge
#

i may be very guilty in leaping forward and charging at a pack, realizing my healer is 10 seconds behind me pepeGiggle

weary spear
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Starts to get too situational lol and the situational ones don’t matter in low keys

strange surge
thorn thorn
strange surge
weary spear
#

It’s a fkin time commitment to learn the game at a higher level than that each season

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Not everyone addicts like us

thorn thorn
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I used to think this was a meme until I started looking at rio M+ stats for key levels garf_sit

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And then I actually started pugging

weary spear
#

Dude

thorn thorn
#

And I realized its a miracle some people can even login

weary spear
#

Pugging low keys is aids

thorn thorn
#

Im painfully aware

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Its like the lottery

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Except you always lose

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And there is no reward

vocal seal
thorn thorn
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I dont key push cuz i aint got the time to practice every key constantly but im very aware that +10s-12s are disneyland

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But that doesnt make doing them with pugs any less difficult

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Some of them almost intentionally make the key hell to time

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Its like an inverse

strange surge
thorn thorn
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Cuz higher up you have to fight against the dungeon and comp for timer

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And lower down you have to fight against people to get even the expected performance

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To us yes

strange surge
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i didnt think the falloff to 12 was that big HUH

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i expected 12 to be where the nerds grinded, for more crests

vocal seal
#

12-13 to get 3K rio for the mount and i'm out

winged sun
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10 is the best crest farm level

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U get affix dmg buff and mobs 0 hp

strange surge
#

11 then

winged sun
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U get capped in few keys so 10 is the best

vocal seal
#

whats the red and blue mean ? alliance and horde ?

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timed or untimed ?.

strange surge
#

if you do 11, you get perfectly capped in 5 keys.

if you do 10, you need another key, and get like half of it as runed

weary spear
#

lol

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You’re both wrong tbh

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Admit it

winged sun
#

This guy said 12 30 seconds ago

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U just love to disagree

hollow fulcrum
#

i think 14s are easy af ngl

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(i havent done a single 14 yet)

winged sun
vocal seal
#

type shit fr

winged sun
#

Once u try 14s they’re chill

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Idk why but key levels are weird they’re omega ez this season early on up to 17s and above

lunar sonnet
#

4p no 1.5 min trink, do i just put forge as a 3m?

strange surge
# winged sun This guy said 12 30 seconds ago

i didnt state anything as a fact, i just expressed surprise that the falloff from 10 to 12 was as steep as it was.

you very firmly insisted on 10 being the best, twice. Thus i gave it a second thought.

winged sun
main bridge
#

you're wrestling with a pig dude. you're only going to get dirty while he enjoys himself

winged sun
#

No cappy

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Tank main too

sacred ibex
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!craft

prisma monolithBOT
#

Preferences currently are wrist/dagger for embellishment depending on what you go for

Darkmoon Sigil Ascension (dagger) + Writhing Banding (wrist) is generally "the best" overall, but Blessed Weapon Grip + Dawnthread can be VERY VERY slightly better in m+

Always craft a dagger for at least an offhand. Put Ascencion or Blessed Weapon Grip on it. Additional Crafts should be Wrist (maybe Belt later in the patch after dropping the delve belt) for your second embellishment, after that whatever low item level slot is fine, necks can be good crafts.
If you have a myth track weapon in your main hand already read the above and pick whatever you prefer

mint urchin
strange surge
#

fair

thorn thorn
#

You are the second person I have seen mention this so far this season

manic prism
#

!wa

prisma monolithBOT
vocal seal
thorn thorn
#

Shrimple

slim copper
#

for FB. do we hold prism til 18 stacks? or blwo with DM?

indigo mulch
#

with 4p you macro it with vanish

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and you use it every other dm

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without just macro it with dm

slim copper
#

gotcha thanks

dim spade
#

what is better stats? the sim said the first, but dont find the cap of mastery

image.png image.png
sullen fjord
#

any of u guys got macro for shadowmeld into stealth?

waxen oyster
#

Needs to be hit twice

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as both are a gcd

hollow river
runic hinge
digital venture
#

in FB we shiv>DM>KB and Vanish OR Vanish>shiv>DM and KB?

dim spade
#

well then vers 20% build

runic hinge
#

So it’s shiv dm kb envenom and then vanish

haughty flicker
#

all of those are correct

digital venture
haughty flicker
#

as long as you vanish before your second envenom it doesnt matter when exactly you vanish

digital venture
#

yeah taht!

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ok ty!

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was confused about the time to do so not to lose value

haughty flicker
#

yeah you just need to make sure double jeopardy effects one of the two cold blood buffed envenoms

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so as long as you dont vanish giga early or giga late its fine

vocal seal
#

!macro

prisma monolithBOT
#

With this you will not accidently use more than 1 charge of tea if youre spamming:

/cast Shiv 
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null

Use this to cast cold blood with Kingsbane, which is optimal for Fatebound. The order does not matter, as Cold Blood is only consumed on Envenoms.

#showtooltip Kingsbane
/cast Cold Blood
/cast Kingsbane

Assassination uses no other macros aside from standard Deathmark+Potion+Racial+Trinket

vocal seal
#

!focus

digital venture
#

ty friends pepe_chad

vocal ginkgo
#

hi, is the off-hand enchant just whatever is the best depending on our gear or is there a specific one

fallow canopy
vocal seal
#

how do i make a macro that targets my focused target ?

waxen oyster
#

Shouldnt you have @focus macros

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if you want to hit something else

vocal seal
#

i want to like

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have my focus target ( wich will be the deathmarked target ) in focus

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and when i have to interrupt another add or spread bleeds

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refocus on the focused '( deathmarked target )

waxen oyster
#

You normally put your kick target as the focus

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Losing autos on marked target is very very bad

vocal seal
#

yeah ok

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thanks

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but that doesnt concern what i asked tho

haughty flicker
#

!wa

prisma monolithBOT
runic hinge
thorn thorn
#

Setting one to /set focus is very trivial

vocal seal
#

should i maybe make 2 macros 1 to focus and 1 to target focus ?

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just so i dont have to right click focus

thorn thorn
#

Hm

waxen oyster
#

Sounds incredibly pointless

thorn thorn
#

eh

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I cant think of a way to make it work without it being overly complex

waxen oyster
#

focus targets are normally what you need to send a kick or cc on

vocal seal
#

i dont think it is actually i sometimes lose track or get overwhelmed by the size of the pack and in i pug 99% of keys

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so

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if i need to shadowstep and interrupt an add that in afghanistan

thorn thorn
#

/Set Focus
/Targetlasttarget

Normally something like this would be feasible but it doesnt accomplish what you want since it goes with how focus is usually used

vocal seal
#

and come back to my focus target

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wich is my deathmarked target

waxen oyster
#

step kicking a mob in range

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yeah ima just let the caster player die

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for not kicking

thorn thorn
#

Or a macro to set focus then target focus

waxen oyster
#

or some shit idk

thorn thorn
#

Yes

static glacier
#

fixed it for you

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🙂

waxen oyster
thorn thorn
#

It would be a /set focus then /target [@focus]

waxen oyster
#

i only do this shit in pvp

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because it often wins the game

thorn thorn
#

A delay should exist between those 2 but not sure thinkPeepo

static glacier
#

idk about you guys

#

i just mouseover step kick tbh

thorn thorn
#

Same bestie

vocal seal
#

nice thanks !

static glacier
#

dislike messing with focus

thorn thorn
#

I dont even use focus

vocal seal
#

it works !!

thorn thorn
#

Excellent

vocal seal
#

time to

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goon

thorn thorn
waxen oyster
#

Idk people supposedly told me assa st is low in keys this season

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yet i ended halkias at 3.8m

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so

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what the helly

static glacier
#

you played with any competent people on mm?

frank idol
#

Hi guys, for Bleed build does what goes first DM + shiv or shiv + DM? or it does not matter?

waxen oyster
#

or vault

vocal seal
#

fighting halkias without extra adds makes me want to cast shiv on myself irl

static glacier
#

granted it's rng

waxen oyster
#

I feel like opening for 7m

static glacier
#

but seeing him end 5m on last boss eco done

waxen oyster
#

as bleed isnt bad

cursive finch
#

cold blood macro?

static glacier
#

opening like 11

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its fucked up

#

we can't compete at all

#

unless he lowrolls

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on pure st

waxen oyster
#

it evens out though

static glacier
#

funnel / aoe sure we can

waxen oyster
#

over the key

static glacier
#

yeah on overall we win

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but if we're talking boss dam I think sin is relatively weak

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not as weak as last season imo

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but still below mid

#

dle

waxen oyster
#

yeah but people talking

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losing to tanks low

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which isnt true

thorn thorn
static glacier
#

i think that was more last season

waxen oyster
#

nah it was this season

static glacier
#

on st if you lsot to a tank you opened like

waxen oyster
#

now we send minibosses to poundtown

static glacier
#

1:40 cd on dm

waxen oyster
#

if they get pulled with adds

static glacier
#

on the pull

#

and the other guy has cds

#

and / or lust too

#

its gonna be a cd timing thing

waxen oyster
#

tbh if you start at that

static glacier
#

more than the spec

waxen oyster
#

and still get a dm before boss dies

#

its probably better

#

than only one dm at start

static glacier
#

depends on a ton of factors for sure

#

dm in zoldyck can save our boss st for sure

#

ive won a lot of boss dmg off it

#

highkey I think it's player / gear diff if we win on bosses though

waxen oyster
#

i really enjoy looking at replays on logs

thorn thorn
#

Imagine how much you would do if you ran cleave

waxen oyster
#

when a dm gets sent in zoldyck

#

with an 18 stack prism

static glacier
#

oh lawd

#

i just got prism on thursday

#

it's been an experience

#

this thing is so op

waxen oyster
#

yeah

#

its a "fuck you in particular" trinket

static glacier
#

im interested in fringe optimisations for its timing

waxen oyster
#

just dont die

static glacier
#

stuff like crazy demise maxxing

waxen oyster
#

pretty sure you'll lose stacks

static glacier
#

if it's like spymasters which i think it is then yeah

waxen oyster
#

real demise max strat would be

#

play both prism and araz

waxen oyster
#

and lasts through changing zones

static glacier
#

tell me it resets on key start

waxen oyster
#

yes

static glacier
#

thank god

waxen oyster
#

well i havent confirmed that

#

but pretty sure

static glacier
#

was dreading 3 mins autoing a turnip to start a key

digital venture
#

!loot

prisma monolithBOT
spice surge
static glacier
#

why'd you have to fucking remind dme

#

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

waxen oyster
#

"everyone ramp your prism before we pull boss"

static glacier
#

"wait guys, getting prism stacks before we pull|"

spice surge
#

Id recommend just never using it inbetween bosses

#

While it certainly is cringe, its also fun to do the biggest opener imaginable (especially as sub)

static glacier
#

ay eleem, real talk

#

do I ask for a forge

#

assuming Im just gonna play w/e spec is optimal

#

for the raid

#

got two nights to down loomithar and start forge so it's approaching the time myth forge will be on the table

#

i've seen rwf running 2x on use but i've also seen sims suggesting that antenna is ideal

quartz echo
#

!macro

prisma monolithBOT
#

With this you will not accidently use more than 1 charge of tea if youre spamming:

/cast Shiv 
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null

Use this to cast cold blood with Kingsbane, which is optimal for Fatebound. The order does not matter, as Cold Blood is only consumed on Envenoms.

#showtooltip Kingsbane
/cast Cold Blood
/cast Kingsbane

Assassination uses no other macros aside from standard Deathmark+Potion+Racial+Trinket

spice surge
static glacier
#

ill keep that in mind and inform my rl

spice surge
#

My suspicion is that the platform on nexus king isnt going to be as much of a DPS check for non rwf guilds and then you'd be better of with an antenna since it would amp the dragon phase

#

Dimensius not sure, probably leaning more towards double on-use, but eh

#

Either way, you want the forge or antenna

solid vault
#

!fuu

prisma monolithBOT
static glacier
#

I've been told im getting an antenna v soon

#

lots of people got vault / hero / norm antenna and I've been passed over for it

#

will have to see, I think tuning post rwf could shake things up

#

I wonder if sub will go unnerfed

mild pulsar
#

!macros

#

!macro

prisma monolithBOT
#

With this you will not accidently use more than 1 charge of tea if youre spamming:

/cast Shiv 
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null

Use this to cast cold blood with Kingsbane, which is optimal for Fatebound. The order does not matter, as Cold Blood is only consumed on Envenoms.

#showtooltip Kingsbane
/cast Cold Blood
/cast Kingsbane

Assassination uses no other macros aside from standard Deathmark+Potion+Racial+Trinket

kind crater
#

do y'all think assassination is easier to learn than sub?

balmy condor
#

yes

static glacier
digital venture
#

is it too grief to craft a neck as 2nd item for this week as there's no real decent m+ option and Nexus king is too rough yet?

earnest remnant
#

can confirm as well reading whispyr wowhead guide made me rank 1 loomithar he the goat frfr

kind crater
#

I was kinda hoping sub would be easier since it shares more itemization with outlaw, lul

snow kindle
#

is bleed build the play for high keys rn?

warped osprey
earnest remnant
#

read wowhead guide

#

very good

warped osprey
#

is normal to underperform sims?

nova kelp
kind crater
#

I mean right now I was playing outlaw, so I have a lot of haste/vers gear

#

but we got double dagger drop on loomithar and I'm the only rogue, so I'm probably swapping to sub or assassination now lol

main bridge
nova kelp
kind crater
#

yeah...

runic hinge
nova kelp
#

It's also good on sin though

#

Sin doesn't really have BAD stats

static glacier
kind crater
#

ah ok, good to know

#

I thought sin was pretty big on crit/mastery and didn't like haste/vers

static glacier
#

!gear

prisma monolithBOT
runic hinge
#

I’m at like 18% haste rn

static glacier
#

read the line in red

nova kelp
#

It like crit mastery MORE but it doesn't hate anything

static glacier
#

the other specs really HATE

#

their bad stat

#

sin is fine with vers

main bridge
#

these are all just generalizations though and you don't need to know any of this because you can just sim and get a precise answer unique to your gear

cyan surge
#

With the set bonus and saving a shiv during lingering darkness, is it good to save a vanish ambush during that? I got a 3m according to details.

static glacier
#

if you wanted to multispec id always reccomend optmising for sub / ol and having sin be a secondary concern

#

one or two pieces of jewelry can fix a sub or outlaw set to be relatively good for sin

nova kelp
#

Sub/sin for life

static glacier
#

i've been more a sin / ol kinda guy this expac

nova kelp
#

Shivving mother fuckers is life

static glacier
#

last expac I played a lot more sub

heavy jolt
#

so sometimes on the fatebound opener the cooldown reduction doesnt effect kingsbane/cb right away. am i doing something wrong with it?

cyan surge
#

is this normal for a non crit ambush to hit this hard? I didnt use any potions or vials.

Screenshot_2025-08-22_231000.png
slim hamlet
#

checkmate

Gy33R7AXUAAle7n.png
rancid spade
#

ct on 1 target?

haughty flicker
#

in bleed build yes

cedar timber
#

I've heard a few times there are a couple of dungeons that are particularly bad for Sin. I think it was streets and one other. Is there somewhere that explains why they are bad and how much of an impact it will be? Is sub or ol the preferred spec for those dungeons.

haughty flicker
#

more specifically if you dont have amp poison, but bleed build is the only time you wouldnt atm

digital venture
#

So I'm questioning what to do with my 2nd spark.
I got a dagger last week and I was planning to craft a chest since it's a big numbered item, but I've noticed there's no real good neck in dungeons. The only good option is the neck from Nexus king but I doubt guild will get there next reset, but for a chest I can get the one from Halls that is good, what you guys think?

cyan surge
#

usually it is dagger and bracers

haughty flicker
#

when in doubt send bracers with free runed crest

slim copper
#

Had a decent night tn

image.png
cedar timber
digital venture
#

@cyan surge an @haughty flicker got myth bracers on 1st vault

haughty flicker
#

wow i'd shoot myself if i took bracers first vault

digital venture
cyan surge
cedar timber
#

I think best answer is throwing the different options into the robot with best/farmable offpiece and see the difference.

proud dust
#

I pulled a socket

#

it was sick

digital venture
cedar timber
#

Necks probably safest long term if you multi spec so you can craft it to different stats later in the season. But a big chest is likely the better short term.

#

But whatever you make you will get as your only options in your next vault. It is the way.

cyan surge
#

I'm still not sure how my ambush damage is varying so much and I'm not talking about procs. For normal, the minimum was 391k and the max was 4m. The crits were 1.58m.

fleet solstice
#

How does FB feel in Dawnbreaker? or id DS really the only way to go for keys?

cedar timber
cyan surge
#

just doing a regulary rotation on a target dummy in dorn

#

im not sure which ambush hit that hard but i save a vanish ambush if i have no procs during the shiv during lingering darkness

static glen
#

!wa

prisma monolithBOT
wary valley
#

!stats

prisma monolithBOT
#

There are no "recommended stat levels" or "breakpoint of X stat" or "required" amount of any stats. This is an outdated way to think about stats and simply is not relevant to the spec. If you're looking for a quick recommendation: Agi >> Crit = Mastery >= Haste > VersatilityIt's always more accurate to simulate your own character, as stat procs from trinkets/enchants can often de-value their stat relative to others. Stats are not a rigid construct, their values change constantly in relation to each other depending on your character.

  • Signet of the Priory will require you have Mastery as your highest RATING (the actual number, not the %). Having Crit and Mastery close to one another will cause procs from Flask or Seaforium Pacemaker to cause your Signet to give you Crit. This is generally worse and will cause Signet to sim poorly.
  • Compared to each other, Deathstalker wants more Mastery/Haste than Fatebound, and Fatebound wants more Crit than Deathstalker
  • Always Always ALWAYS sim yourself through Top Gear and Droptimizer for accurate results
cedar timber
#

Im not smart enough to give a definitive answer but liklely deathstalkers mark improves ambush and other buffs overlapping. Will have to see if the smart people come up with anything better. Keep smashing dummy's for a bit and see if it happens again.

balmy condor
#

regarding what?

unborn rain
#

why is halls so cursed

nocturne quail
#

bro i told my guild about the jastor proc bug and they CLOWNED me for having it on still

#

send help

burnt star
#

mr roboto was saying it was really strong

nocturne quail
#

it was

burnt star
#

cant blame for keeping it

nocturne quail
#

and yet

crimson vector
#

is consuming darkest night higher prio then refreshing your dots?

main bridge
#

as soon as you consume DN you'll be able to refresh them and get closer to the next DN

cedar timber
crimson vector
#

heard

#

that's what i thought

balmy condor
#

like are you looking at details, logs?

#

cause if you're looking at details, it gets a little confused sometimes with vicious and whatever

#

and vicious venoms is buffed by mastery

#

so depending on if you have tea, trinket, etc

#

you'll see a big difference there

#

same thing with like prism/forge and big agi buffs

#

shiv will also give a pretty big swing with the deathstalker set

#

80% on the next ambush/mut after consuming a finisher if you're during shiv

#

so that's something to keep in mind as well

novel dock
#

!craft

prisma monolithBOT
#

Preferences currently are wrist/dagger for embellishment depending on what you go for

Darkmoon Sigil Ascension (dagger) + Writhing Banding (wrist) is generally "the best" overall, but Blessed Weapon Grip + Dawnthread can be VERY VERY slightly better in m+

Always craft a dagger for at least an offhand. Put Ascencion or Blessed Weapon Grip on it. Additional Crafts should be Wrist (maybe Belt later in the patch after dropping the delve belt) for your second embellishment, after that whatever low item level slot is fine, necks can be good crafts.
If you have a myth track weapon in your main hand already read the above and pick whatever you prefer

worthy shell
#

Hello! i have a question with Fatebound opener, with 2t Kingsbane have 4 sec more... so second shiv is better in last 8 sec o just when 1 shiv drop (10 sec aprox)

static glen
#

is there a macro to target ur deathstalked opponent or nah

main bridge
#

you could use mouseover macros for rupture/garrote and just not change your target

#

or make the DS target your focus if you're not using that for kicks

nova kelp
#

I imagine it would be a fucking common share if there was lol

cyan surge
#

Also I don't have the bis trinkets

vague dragon
#

guys i see ppl dont using shiv and tea macro and sometimes they dont use it with shiv why is that ?

obtuse ruin
#

are there any conditions that make meld -> stealth not work in dungeons?

main bridge
vague dragon
main bridge
#

what makes you think they aren't using it?

vague dragon
#

cuz i watching them on twitch

main bridge
#

so why not just ask them

vague dragon
#

idk i just like to talk here

lucid silo
#

is ritual forge or netherprism better in m+

kind crater
#

so if I'm running bleed spec in M+ am I kinda just accepting that my boss damage is going to be pure ass?

#

pun intended

#

seems like unless there's cleave I'm always bottom of the pack on bosses

obtuse ruin
#

ok this shadowmeld shit never works...

#

even if I dont have DS mark

kind crater
#

I feel like I'm doing something wrong, considering the wowhead guide says the bleed spec is one of the strongest for ST damage

obtuse ruin
#

if you have funnel then maybe yeah

#

Pure ST bleed build is bad

kind crater
#

"It should be noted that this is currently the best build for boss damage in Mythic+ without sacrificing AoE, even though it paradoxically does not take Kingsbane."

tough gorge
#

What do you think that means?

#

How did you interpret that as great ST

#

Boss damage at high end takes adds in to funnel

#

All the top M+ teams do this

kind crater
#

well typically 'best build for boss damage' would imply ST damage

#

I think it's kinda niche to assume most players will be doing something just b/c top end M+ teams do it, lol

tough gorge
#

Best build compared to what though?

exotic pulsar
#

yeah but nobody goes ST in keys dude

glad ferry
#

On opener, do I wait for last 7 seconds of KB for 2nd shiv or just shiv on CD?

exotic pulsar
#

so like its good st for an aoe build

tough gorge
#

It never says best build compared to all other classes

kind crater
#

lmao, y'all could have just said that when I asked the question above

#

that was my whole question, is it meant to be 'relatively' good or am I doing something wrong

tough gorge
#

Your prolly alright

runic hinge
#

Nah. Assa is mid as hell in keys ST

main bridge
#

i'd be really curious if the guide really says anywhere that assassination is the strongest spec for ST damage

#

could you link the page that says this?

runic hinge
#

Just accept it and still top overall

kind crater
exotic pulsar
#

tell tank to pull onto boss and do a stupid amount of damage

kind crater
#

in the 'bleed' section, it says verbatim "It should be noted that this is currently the best build for boss damage in Mythic+ without sacrificing AoE, even though it paradoxically does not take Kingsbane."

hallow glade
#

It is in fact the best build for boss damage

tough gorge
#

It is the best assa M+ build for boss dmg

#

Where's the lie lol

kind crater
#

wally

#

I am not accusing anyone of lying

tough gorge
#

It's just not better than every class

main bridge
#

yeah it doesn't say single target at all. just boss damage

kind crater
#

please take a breath

#

I was asking a question

hallow glade
#

Boss damage =/= pure st

kind crater
#

y'all are acting like I'm coming in here claiming otherwise, I'm just asking for clarification

#

because that sentence can be interpreted multiple ways

#

thank you for the answer

#

I appreciate it

hallow glade
#

Yeah you need to play around it as a group

#

If you want to maximum the damage profile

#

Like arcane mage

main bridge
#

i would not consider ST to be the strong point for bleed, but that also doesn't mean you aren't making mistakes. so if you find that this is a problem for you, i would start logging your keys and make sure you aren't making any mistakes

and yeah, if you can pull trash onto bosses that is ideal for bleed as it is a strong funnel spec

#

as far as ST damage goes it was worse last season

glad ferry
main bridge
#

it's last 8 seconds of KB. this is all in the guide and it's worth reading

#

Whispyr has a nice video on FB also

mint valve
#

!fuu

prisma monolithBOT
little tulip
#

is it okay to break 4 set for 2/2?

main bridge
#

yes it's much better but if you're unsure you can sim it

little tulip
#

sending 10s no time

night vessel
#

Dumb question. Does shiv aoe sooth?

#

Bc I felt like it in HOA

main bridge
#

no

coral ibex
#

yes

#

with AP

main bridge
#

wait really

rotund oak
#

with arterial precision it does yes

#

yes rly

main bridge
#

i'm unaware of this behavior

coral ibex
#

bro has never soothed on gally

humble ginkgo
#

it does

runic hinge
#

Skip is right

humble ginkgo
#

Thank you.

main bridge
#

ooh very cool. it didn't occur to me that it would also soothe

night vessel
#

When the bear/wolf things went enrage I shived and all of them went back

main bridge
#

large shiv

humble ginkgo
rotund oak
#

🗡️

humble ginkgo
#

I will forever be outlaw color because thats how i started

#

cant switch up on my day 1s

runic hinge
#

Sticking to his roots. Gotta respect it.

rotund oak
#

let alone wow or rogue

#

u need to adapt

night vessel
#

Sometimes, life gives you the chance to do the right thing. Switching to assa in this case

rotund oak
#

could go all philosophical but im old and its saturday

runic hinge
#

You are old

graceful bane
#

When running the Fatebound build on Nexus-king. do we swap internal bleeding for caustic splatter?

main bridge
#

FB with spatter CRANKS that boss

#

it's so fun

night vessel
#

Oh I didn't do that lol

main bridge
#

i just watch myself shoot to the top of the meters in the add phase

graceful bane
#

roger ty ty

main bridge
#

also nice to see when they use cds

shell spade
#

How much haste do you all recommend?

main bridge
#

!stats

prisma monolithBOT
#

There are no "recommended stat levels" or "breakpoint of X stat" or "required" amount of any stats. This is an outdated way to think about stats and simply is not relevant to the spec. If you're looking for a quick recommendation: Agi >> Crit = Mastery >= Haste > VersatilityIt's always more accurate to simulate your own character, as stat procs from trinkets/enchants can often de-value their stat relative to others. Stats are not a rigid construct, their values change constantly in relation to each other depending on your character.

  • Signet of the Priory will require you have Mastery as your highest RATING (the actual number, not the %). Having Crit and Mastery close to one another will cause procs from Flask or Seaforium Pacemaker to cause your Signet to give you Crit. This is generally worse and will cause Signet to sim poorly.
  • Compared to each other, Deathstalker wants more Mastery/Haste than Fatebound, and Fatebound wants more Crit than Deathstalker
  • Always Always ALWAYS sim yourself through Top Gear and Droptimizer for accurate results
dark thorn
bleak eagle
#

How big is putting netherprism on vanissh instead of deathmmark?

golden roost
#

I think it’s a 0.5% increase? Someone correct me if I’m wrong

balmy condor
buoyant herald
#

yeah looks like that's the cu;prit

waxen oyster
obtuse ruin
#

guys can anyone share their meld-stealth macro

floral thorn
#

Why does my 2nd use of deathmark come up at 1minute? Does the tier set proc twice on the opener?

#

Read pins, see its a bug

waxen oyster
#

caustic doing more instant hotfix though

fallen arch
#

How big is 4 piece for deathstalker in keys?

balmy condor
#

it's not insane but it's a couple %

fallen arch
#

Aight

#

Lol the leap fron Echelon in HoA doesn’t hurt that much anymore? I remember that shit oneshotting in lower keys even in SL

strange moss
#

when do you know to envenom over putting up more ruptures?

keen spruce
#

In keys

strange moss
#

what is dn sorry

fallen arch
#

Darkest Night

#

Deathstalkrr capstone

wary light
#

That was a layup right there

strange moss
#

haha

#

i've watched guides and read up on sin but i dont understand deathstalkers mark.. when should u be proccing it.. e.g in M+

#

i dont understadn the point of proccing it

balmy condor
#

constantly

quasi ledge
#

Just play at dummys with it. Then you will understand

balmy condor
#

having the mark up gives you a ton of damage

#

having darkest night gives you a ton of damage

#

so you go from getting a ton of damage -> break down the mark -> ton of damage -> now you have mark again -> ton of damage

wary quest
#

yep the most you rotate it the most damage you output from it in the same amount of time, it's simple

strange moss
#

but proccing the mark doesnt it just deal damage to the 1 target?

#

if u are in aoe are u meant to be proccing it?

#

sorry for the noob questions i think im missing something

balmy condor
#

big darkest night envenom -> big nature damage -> big caustic spatter

#

hunt them down is plague, that spatters

#

clear the witnesses is pretty chunky aoe, and also spatters

strange moss
#

gotcha thanks man

grave trail
spiral escarp
#

Hey, is the Gally ring issue specific to rogues only?
My guildies (WL and Priest) told me my info is not correct

balmy condor
grave trail
spiral escarp
#

Details

image0.jpg
balmy condor
#

okay

#

did you

#

read any of the pin

#

or did you just read "it doesn't work"

#

and so it must be true that it NEVER works

spiral escarp
#

I read the pin that you pinned and shared it with guildies. Then they said maybe it is just about rogues, so I wanted to confirm.

balmy condor
#

the pin literally shows mostly not rogue

quasi ledge
#

its 2 wls a dk and a hunter log in the pin

spiral escarp
#

I see inly this in the pins:

image0.jpg
haughty flicker
#

every single fight for my guild someones ring either didnt proc at all or had insanely low uptime

balmy condor
#

to read the pin

#

instead of looking at the preview

wary quest
#

!build

spiral escarp
haughty flicker
#

my ring and our dks ring didnt even proc on forgeweaver and half the rings that did have piss poor uptime

image.png
balmy condor
#

aintnoway THATS LITERALLY JUST WHAT THE PIN SAYS

#

🎙️ IS THIS THING ON

spiral escarp
haughty flicker
#

sorry mr whippy

balmy condor
#

Pepega📣 HELLLLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO?????????

spiral escarp
strange moss
#

for bleeds its just to maintain 5 ruptures right.. like someone said DN -> 5 ruptures -> envenom? and no so much garrote?

onyx pond
#

Does garrote needs to be spread to the whole pack ?

quasi ledge
#

In Raid as DS we macro prism to mark right?

noble basalt
#

I've gotten unlucky and a SIgnet and a Lily, obviously pop my Lily during Deathmark when should I pop my Signet?

split grail
#

So is there something I’m not getting or are tanks chain pulling in m+ killing our dps? Like I only have 2 vanish unless I’m doing something wrong

wise loom
#

all the rogues in my guild quiting to go to DK sadage

radiant quarry
crisp venture
oak tangle
little magnet
#

should i finally replace that delve belt?

image.png
quasi ledge
#

Sim it

#

I got the same and its -0,8% for me. Need to upgrade the belt first

little magnet
#

on it!

oak tangle
#

the guides do say something like 710

old lily
#

arakara +10 anyone got similar damage spreads or notice anything that might be low/high

image.png
nimble tartan
#

could this be happening to that int trinket i was lookin at aome fishy stuff with that too

#

the prapodia..

little magnet
#

it is super close with that belt

image.png
mint valve
#

are people getting a bug in dungeons when sometimes you have a poison+rupture up on target. and you mutilate and caustic doesnt apply?

drifting cloud
#

needs to be deadly poison

little magnet
#

deadly poison maybe fell off?

mint valve
#

im using deadly poison all the time

#

its just weird.. its very rare

#

but sometimes when i mutilate.. caustic just doesnt apply

oak tangle
#

poisons aren't guranteed to apply

#

we have a high likelyhood to apply them, probably why your issue is rare

oblique slate
#

!plater

prisma monolithBOT
oak tangle
#

but not 100%

blissful storm
#

for streets first boss do we cloak before interrogation cast ends or after we are caged to skip it?

oak tangle
#

i don't believe you can take actions after the cage

blissful storm
loud light
#

have cloak up when the cast would cage you

#

and it immunes

blissful storm
#

ty

half dawn
#

!plater

prisma monolithBOT
haughty flicker
prisma monolithBOT
#

Caustic is not bugged. The Green Puddle on the ground is Poison Bomb, not Caustic Spatter. You are either:

  1. Not using Deadly/Amplifying poison (or its not applied to your target)
  2. Not using Rupture on your target
  3. Not using Mutilate/Ambush if the above two are applied
humble verge
runic hinge
humble verge
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one of the rem dps

haughty flicker
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after whispyr got asked 4 times in one day if caustic was bugged

humble verge
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decided to not stand on the statue

runic hinge
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Is caustic bugged tho

haughty flicker
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good question

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!causticbug

prisma monolithBOT
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Caustic is not bugged. The Green Puddle on the ground is Poison Bomb, not Caustic Spatter. You are either:

  1. Not using Deadly/Amplifying poison (or its not applied to your target)
  2. Not using Rupture on your target
  3. Not using Mutilate/Ambush if the above two are applied
runic hinge
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Sounds like it’s not bugged

humble verge
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man

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this 13 hoa

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was going so well

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even with the fucking half wipe we had after 1st boss

runic hinge
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Shoulda done more dps

dim nymph
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Is anyone else having issues where simming is just inconsistent? I just simmed my same exact talent setup and gear setup with the same sim options and got 2 different results...

balmy condor
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I don't believe you

dim nymph
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I swear on everything I'm not lying lol

balmy condor
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link the two then

dim nymph
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is it possible to show past sims?

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nvm i see it

balmy condor
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yeah just hit the button on the right

image.png
dim nymph
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just a second

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i need to find the sims where it happens might take a second

unique lark
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five keys in a row...tanks who chain-pulled each pack. I'm just going to start leaving and play another game while deserter debuff runs out. If I had to dot mobs individually 80% of the time, I would play a different class.

balmy condor
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thanks for sharing

runic hinge
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What do you do with your vanish charges?

strange moss
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in opener when applying garrote and rupture do you garrote, garrote, rupture, rupture do you appy just to main target or switch targets then cast each?

balmy condor
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you ambush garrote rupture rupture

humble verge
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its preference how you do it

balmy condor
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but yeh

humble verge
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most "high" level m+ rogues

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might tab

balmy condor
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doesn't really matter what you do with it

humble verge
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to do rupture for 6 targets

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over having 5

balmy condor
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mouseovers technically super duper most optimal

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but shrugeg

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oh no the bonus damage of one measly rupture

strange moss
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wait so im confusing u ambush garotte rupture rupture on the 1 target or tab target?

balmy condor
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ambush to apply the mark

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then you can do whatever

dim nymph
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Bro I'm not crazy lol I swear it has happened twice now but I'm looking at my past sims that I deemed weird are now showing what my latest sim is showing???

balmy condor
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hit your main target

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mouseover

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whatever you want

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tab it shrugeg

humble verge
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what is mousover, and why is he in my chat

balmy condor
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as long as you can get back to your marked target

dim nymph
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like in aoe it was just showing that the ring from priory was my largest upgrade over the trinket from halls... @balmy condor

runic hinge
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With tier is MA the drop instead of second shiv?

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For iron wire

buoyant herald
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thats what sims told me

runic hinge
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Word

balmy condor
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MA or I guess lethal dose

buoyant herald
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probably need to check yourself

balmy condor
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but dropping lethal dose is just

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wtf.jpg

runic hinge
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Yeah I ain’t doing that

dim nymph
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but my most recent sim is now saying that the trinket beats the rings tenfold

balmy condor
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sounds like you didn't sim it correctly the first time idk

dim nymph
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possible, it was also saying before that my highest upgrade in aoe was like 40k from the ring lol

subtle tundra
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whats new

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ass good?

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ass always good

bleak prairie
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Hi guys, quick question, started playing assa recently, i find myself struggling in pure st with damage and energy. Im playing the bleed build and once my opener is done i go into the standard rotation and keep my bleeds up, but i cant seem to do good damage and im out of energy so eventually i struggle to keep my bleeds up

golden loom
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intended in single target and even more so with bleed build yes

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the solution? drag mobs onto boss

glacial relic
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!design

prisma monolithBOT
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Running out of energy in single target is completely normal, intended design of Assassination. As a burst spec our damage is mainly loaded into Deathmark/Shiv and massive Envenoms through stacking multiple nature damage buffs such as Lingering Darkness, Shiv, Darkest Night, Amplifying Poison, and more. This comes with the natural downside of our damage suffering outside of these windows, in part due to the designed lack of energy slowing us down.

Because of this, there is only one minor (0.3%) min-max with energy, which is pooling 3-4 seconds into an upcoming Kingsbane. Ideally this would put you at around 50-60% energy before you enter your Kingsbane, which is more than enough energy alongside thistle tea. Outside of that, spam Envenom and just accept that you will run out of energy. There is nothing you can do to not run out of energy. Playing around Envenom uptime also is not relevant anymore, as Twist the knife allows for two stacks at a time, which reduces wasted uptime dramatically. Without twist the knife, wasting uptime is unavoidable.

golden loom
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pure single target with no possibility of adds? it is what it is

subtle tundra
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assa has absolutely bonkers dogshit st with m+ build

bleak prairie
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yeah but it feels like when i watch others play assa with the same build their damage is higher

crisp venture
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does wound poison work on the HOA miniboss before 4th?

bleak prairie
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i may not be the best yes, but I dont feel as though there is something terribly wrong in my rotation

crisp venture
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or do we need improved wound poison

subtle tundra
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with bleed build especially

bleak prairie
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also is the hybrid build worth it or do I just stick to bleed?

glacial relic
golden loom
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hybrid bad

bleak prairie
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so its pretty much bleed build and then cleave build for big boys in high keys?

golden loom
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this season its probably just bleed everywhere