assassination

[jolly stirrup]

And they stay forever anyway because max CP so no need to worry about reapplying

[balmy condor]

darkest night especially is still your #1 priority even above crimson tempest

so probably not envenoming, yes

[hearty seal]

and yet they're not patching up shadowmeld
like this is stupid
anything that has truesight is basically a design point saying "this can't/shouldn't be skipped", that's basically the main reason to give anything truesight to begin with
and then people skip it with SM

[jolly stirrup]

I have DN on my mind always, but forget CT most of the time, so my dps is lacking

[fresh mica]

!up

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1403486905915408524/Dark_Mode.jpg

[silent breach]

Darkest night can’t even accidentally be used right? It just waits for max venom

[balmy condor]

yes

[jolly stirrup]

Yes

[tranquil wing]

Does this mean i'm ass (+10 streets)

[dusty phoenix]

Or before 3rd dm after? A bit confused about the usage of vanish.. is it for Double Jeopardy? Is there any gain to vanishing for dm because of the tier?

[balmy condor]

double jeopardy yes

[dense cedar]

maybe, tho might also be gear difference

[fresh mica]

!gear

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1405681489470951594/sin_.webp

[balmy condor]

compared to the evoker yes, but what the hell is the hunter doing

he's got like a full 10-12 ilvl on the rest of the group

why is he not obliterating

[dense cedar]

worried that gear command is tricking people

[dusty phoenix]

Wouldnt it be better to Double the guaranteed edge coin from dm then?

[balmy condor]

what does this mean

how would one double dm coins

what's that got to do with double jeopardy

[marble hemlock]

thats a frost DK skill, not a hunter one

[noble hull]

never play street as assa

[silent breach]

Maybe he means death mark and kb both being edge coins?

[stable apex]

Why does the FB opener Mutilate after Vanish, wouldnt Ambush be better? And why in general does the rotation not mention Ambush at all, even though the suggested builds pick up Improved Ambush and Blindside?

[balmy condor]

why can't we just vanish and get the coins from cold blood to match anyway

[balmy condor]

in order:
doesn't matter
because ambush procs overwrite your mutilate and you literally cannot cast mutilate during a proc

[hearty seal]

because ambush = mutilate in this case

[marble hemlock]

mutilate also hits twice, so chance for 2 poison procs from it, instead of 1 from ambush

[dense cedar]

ambush don't = mutilate how dare u

i will happily press mut over ambush after vanish

smh smh

[balmy condor]

like there's so much shit on that opener that doesn't matter but no matter where I put stuff I'm fucked

I could put the vanish before the deathmark, but then people would ask why we're deathmarking from stealth

so that doesn't work

[tranquil wing]

This is +10 FG, I'm trying my hardest to follow the rotation though. Not sure what I'm doing wrong

[balmy condor]

if I have it where it is right now people macro vanish to kb

and that doesn't work with the 4pc

if I put an ambush then people ask where I'm getting the ambush from

if I put a mutilate then people ask why not ambush

[marble hemlock]

practice makes perfect. assa is a tough spec to play well in m+, so dont be discouraged if youre not doing everything right immediately

[queen cosmos]

Why does this not work

[balmy condor]

if I put it in front of the envenom then people ask why we would envenom from stealth

[stable apex]

ah oke, ya im used to outlaw clunk where it matters which one we press and sometimes forcefully press sinister in stealth or need to make sure we press the sinister button for ambush procc because the normal ambush button does not get the procc benefits

ty

[balmy condor]

cause you'd vanish your 2:15 kingsbane instead of your 3:00 deathmark

[noble hull]

@marble hemlock please come back

[dense cedar]

lmao

[marble hemlock]

im washed up

[marsh fjord]

Like me yesterday but I’m used to it now so I’m vanishing and then death marking 😂

[balmy condor]

yeah assassination you can blindly hammer your keyboard 10-20% of the time and it changes nothing

[stable apex]

its crazy

when i compare

how much work i need to put in law

and sin i can jsut send it in keys for example 20mil on pulls

[dense cedar]

outlaw is like 4 spec concepts glued together

[onyx loom]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[stable apex]

but man, in st the energy starve is maddening me on sin

so slow and boring ahhhhh

[jolly stirrup]

Also, idk, does it really matter how well you perform if you clear the key? Who cares then (its me, I care :( )

[balmy condor]

yeah but with more energy it would just be fast and boring

[hearty seal]

it do be like that

[jolly stirrup]

Real

[marsh fjord]

@balmy condor I did feel like I had better openers when vanishing before DM. With buffing the coins like that

[stable apex]

i miss that from outlaw, always something to press and the biggest dps for most new outlaw is actually not pressing enough

[balmy condor]

you'd get nothing out of it except more opportunity to do the amazingly complex mutx2envenomx1

[silent breach]

Use crimson tempest! Now single target is one button less boring!

[hearty seal]

possibly the solution is to make it so recovering energy would make it more fun (rather than just giving more energy through venomous or w/e)

[stable apex]

i do in keys, still not the greatest haha

[balmy condor]

it literally doesn't matter

[dense cedar]

mutx1envenomx1 sometimes now

[balmy condor]

you can vanish before DM, but you don't consume the buff until your next envenom anyway

so you just vanished and then sat on the buff for 3 seconds

instead of vanishing and consuming it insta

[marsh fjord]

I know it doesn’t but I was just listening to your new video where you talked about it

[balmy condor]

yeah I mean it would be the lazy move with prism

turbo unnecessary

[dense cedar]

we all have a trinket bind anyways, right guys?

[balmy condor]

two in fact

after they took away about like 7 keybinds from assa over the last 2 years

my keybinds look like swiss cheese

I have buttons with nothing on them

[dense cedar]

whispyr dw, active button IC for Midnight

[marble hemlock]

if your on-use is in the upper trinket slot instead of the lower one, youre an animal btw

[jolly stirrup]

Are those the question marks?

[novel star]

wtf

[dense cedar]

ur a psycho

[balmy condor]

question marks and random shit yeah

I had a keybind just to mark mobs green

cause I legit ran out of ideas

[noble hull]

@marble hemlock does that makes me a cat ?

[jolly stirrup]

Ok so I don't need to feel bad that I have 3 bars, but some only have like 5 things on them

Good

[hearty seal]

I mean...somehow yeah, I automatically put use trinkets on the lower slot

[dense cedar]

I used to keybind toys that were off the gcd to my buttons

[hearty seal]

why? I just don't know

[marble hemlock]

this is the way

[peak bobcat]

real

[dense cedar]

evil people in here

[marble hemlock]

no

[silent breach]

The prune Just made space for my swap blaster

[noble hull]

rate my stats please

[silent breach]

Where’s speed

[balmy condor]

3.5/4.15

[hearty seal]

eyegouging mog
don't care about stats

[noble hull]

lmao

i know that's coming

[tulip fern]

Am I tripping or do you not use the extra socket items

[hearty seal]

seems like neck/rings are socketed

the rest is up to luck/unluck more than anything

[tulip fern]

Looks like they all have one socket to me

[noble hull]

@tulip fern not sure what u mean but everything is double socketed

[tulip fern]

Fair, the gear screen just doesn’t show it very well to me at least

Maybe me dumb

[noble hull]

no, u are right it just does not show

[half dawn]

worth crafting 1x dagger

[wispy iris]

!gear

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1405681489470951594/sin_.webp

[half dawn]

i currently have 678 daggers

[dense cedar]

Yes

once you get a better dagger u just slot the crafted in your off-hand

[half dawn]

what embelishment is it worth on the wep?

[warm vortex]

Pace only took like 5 runs on both chars combined

[half dawn]

i know they're all rpetty clsoe

[dense cedar]

ascendance

[elfin fossil]

!craft

[prisma monolith]

Preferences currently are wrist/dagger for embellishment depending on what you go for

Darkmoon Sigil Ascension (dagger) + Writhing Banding (wrist) is generally "the best" overall, but Blessed Weapon Grip + Dawnthread can be VERY VERY slightly better in m+

Always craft a dagger for at least an offhand. Put Ascencion or Blessed Weapon Grip on it. Additional Crafts should be Wrist (maybe Belt later in the patch after dropping the delve belt) for your second embellishment, after that whatever low item level slot is fine, necks can be good crafts.
If you have a myth track weapon in your main hand already read the above and pick whatever you prefer

[dry shoal]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[sullen monolith]

Do you know guys if there is any Deathmark timeline, just like "[LE] (TWW) Kingsbane Timeline" ? If not talented into Kingsbane, i would love to have this timeline for deathmark only

[balmy condor]

there is not

deathmark doesn't have any timing requirements

so a timeline wasn't made for it

[ruby oar]

Guys good morning, i'm having a problem, seems a bug, but need your help. When mutilate change for ambush because of blindside the ability dont came back again to mutilate, its a bug? Do you experience something like that?

[sullen monolith]

yeah i know that ... but im keep forgetting to press my 2nd shiv lol 😄

this 4pc makes it so akward to time it

[balmy condor]

has happened before, just relog

[balmy condor]

it's the same logic, whenever the first falls off you press the second

make your weakaura glow or something

[sullen monolith]

already made dots 😄

Im just maybe too used to use that timeline 🙂 Not sure

[balmy condor]

wtf

[celest estuary]

!faq

[balmy condor]

Bro is playing twister

[half dawn]

Is there a nice short guide for each boss somewhere for NM and HC

[balmy condor]

Wowhead

[half dawn]

i cba reading 1 A4 essay about first boss where the mechanic are avoid shit, move away and use extra action button

[half dawn]

you forgot #ad

[balmy condor]

Not my fault we have legit everything

:)

[whole dome]

I am switching from outlaw this season. How much haste is needed?

[novel star]

none

[balmy condor]

More than 0 less than 100

[novel star]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

There are no "recommended stat levels" or "breakpoint of X stat" or "required" amount of any stats. This is an outdated way to think about stats and simply is not relevant to the spec. If you're looking for a quick recommendation: Agi >> Crit = Mastery >= Haste > VersatilityIt's always more accurate to simulate your own character, as stat procs from trinkets/enchants can often de-value their stat relative to others. Stats are not a rigid construct, their values change constantly in relation to each other depending on your character.

• Signet of the Priory will require you have Mastery as your highest RATING (the actual number, not the %). Having Crit and Mastery close to one another will cause procs from Flask or Seaforium Pacemaker to cause your Signet to give you Crit. This is generally worse and will cause Signet to sim poorly.
• Compared to each other, Deathstalker wants more Mastery/Haste than Fatebound, and Fatebound wants more Crit than Deathstalker
• Always Always ALWAYS sim yourself through Top Gear and Droptimizer for accurate results

[balmy condor]

That’s a long command

Maybe we just shorten it to

“Go ask raidbots”

[novel star]

i’ve got a long command for you

my dearest

[balmy condor]

Let’s hear it then

[novel star]

Um

Shit

Uh

Sorry

[royal lantern]

astral antenna puts a small Moth on your head when it procs

10/10, best trinket in a long time

[balmy condor]

Immediately fumbled the bag that’s crazy

[novel star]

dude you made me nervous

[onyx pond]

This antenna is played by alot of specs

[balmy condor]

So more moths then

[royal lantern]

mainstat+crit is good

and more or less everyone wants a passive 2nd trinket

[onyx pond]

Not enough moths.

[jolly stirrup]

Sounds like a minecraft mod

[nova kelp]

BRUV

fatebound coins can be parried?

I just had a gigantor coin go off on nexus king and he was like "nah tho"

[half dawn]

!macro

[prisma monolith]

With this you will not accidently use more than 1 charge of tea if youre spamming:

/cast Shiv 
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null

Use this to cast cold blood with Kingsbane, which is optimal for Fatebound. The order does not matter, as Cold Blood is only consumed on Envenoms.

#showtooltip Kingsbane
/cast Cold Blood
/cast Kingsbane

Assassination uses no other macros aside from standard Deathmark+Potion+Racial+Trinket

[balmy condor]

Everything can be parried except CDs I’m pretty sure

[nova kelp]

I still hate it

[cunning cloak]

At least kb can't be parried

[warm vortex]

Whispyr dating sim

[cunning cloak]

I'd play TF outta that

[warm vortex]

Btw if your playing cleave do you only maintain garrote on one target and nobody else?

[lavish geyser]

is 2p2p something we wanna mess around with, for m+?

[warm vortex]

I doubt

Iirc whisp said to leave replace the 22 with 4

[nova kelp]

the cd thing with 4 piece is so weird lol

[lavish geyser]

okay. I just saw casual rocking 2p2p, and had to come in here to ask 🙂

[onyx pond]

!gear

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1405681489470951594/sin_.webp

[obsidian harbor]

Hi guys! Anyone can help me with Thistle tea?

[nova kelp]

macro to shiv, forget it exists

[warm vortex]

Asking this as I wanna try cleave on a 10 or 12 sometime

[obsidian harbor]

Is possible some abilty auto-trigger the use of tea?

I see some charge spent without I pressed the button

[zenith eagle]

when you fall below 30 energy it auto uses a charge

[obsidian harbor]

Oh what? Really?

[warm vortex]

Yes it says it on the tooltip

[zenith eagle]

yep it's written on the spell

[latent verge]

Is the quest A Twilight Oath’s End bugged?

[obsidian harbor]

So I want never go under 30 energy?

[warm vortex]

It’s completely fine either way

Just bind to shiv and forget

No

It’s completely fine to trigger

[obsidian harbor]

Oh okay

so bind with shiv and go?

[warm vortex]

Yep

[latent verge]

Can’t find ve’nari

[warm vortex]

!macro

[prisma monolith]

With this you will not accidently use more than 1 charge of tea if youre spamming:

/cast Shiv 
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null

Use this to cast cold blood with Kingsbane, which is optimal for Fatebound. The order does not matter, as Cold Blood is only consumed on Envenoms.

#showtooltip Kingsbane
/cast Cold Blood
/cast Kingsbane

Assassination uses no other macros aside from standard Deathmark+Potion+Racial+Trinket

[obsidian harbor]

Top thanks guys

[warm vortex]

Is this the one after dinensius

*dimensius

[latent verge]

Yes

[warm vortex]

Talk to blood elf bitch

Forget her name

Aleria

[latent verge]

She not there

[warm vortex]

And venari should appear

[latent verge]

Oh ok

Ty I’ll try that

[warm vortex]

At least that’s what worked for me

[obsidian harbor]

I'm now playng (for m+) without CB and Kingsbane

[warm vortex]

After she blabbers for a bit ven should appear

[warm vortex]

Good

[latent verge]

Thank you

[warm vortex]

Fatebound is ass in M+

[obsidian harbor]

Is the bleed build the best one, yeah?

[warm vortex]

Yes

!bleed

[prisma monolith]

Bleed vs Hybrid vs Cleave/FI builds
Broad rules and Section in Guide:

1. If you have to ask, you should play bleed
2. If you're not doing +20's or higher, you should play bleed
3. Even if you're doing higher, you should probably play bleed
4. No, Fatebound is not good, you play Deathstalker in every key.

Some general concepts as to why people play different things:

• 11.2/Season 3: Bleed has gotten stronger through some buffs and the single target damage you get from singular focus is ridiculously good with the tier set. During PTR testing many high end rogues were just playing bleed everywhere.
• Ease of play: Bleed build is simply the easiest to play due to subterfuge/no kingsbane/less need for giant prio targets
• Boss damage: The cleave build is mainly for boss damage (note: not prio, there is no significant difference in prio). Assa single target in keys is pretty bad, and some bosses during season 2 were not possible on high keys otherwise. It remains to be seen what push keys in Season 3 will bring in that regard.
• Specific Dungeons: Rookery as an example is very boss-heavy, especially the last boss, making bleed less ideal. Rookery is not in the rotation in Season 3, and there are a lot of AoE dungeons. Dawnbreaker might be a candidate, but unsure currently.
• Where the damage is: Bleed spreads out its damage and does great overall due to sudden demise and powerful 3-8 target damage. Hybrid is competitve but doesn't pull ahead outside of low target cleave and higher target AoE. Cleave is for single target damage and insanely large aoe because of how much caustic and crimson tempest carry aoe damage. At the end of the day, the builds are extremely similar, but Bleed is looking to simply be the best.

[warm vortex]

You can play hybrid and even cleave but bleed is a lot better, a lot easier, and tbh, for the other two you need shit to live a while

And even then bleed is better

[proper seal]

!fok

[prisma monolith]

Fok Conditions Post-Buff
Fan of Knives as a generator to replace ambush/mutilate:

• Baseline 3+ targets, -1 if talented into momentum of despair and thrown precision, +1 if talented into vicious venoms, +1 if talented into blindside. (Generally 5 with raid build, 3 with Bleed m+, 2 with Hybrid m+)
  Fan of Knives with Clear the Witnesses Up:
• Baseline 2+ targets, -1 if lingering darkness is up or you aren't talented into vicious venoms. With Vicious Venoms casting during lingering darkness is dps neutral.
  Fan of Knives with Darkest Night Up:
• Only on 2+ targets, or without Vicious Venoms talented. This is also a very very minor optimization

The most important to remember is the generator rules, clear the witnesses and darkest night optimizations can be effectively ignored as they are not meaningful DPS improvements

[obsidian harbor]

Okay thanks

[old terrace]

How do you guys cope with tanks doing massive chain pulls?

[warm vortex]

Vanish

[old terrace]

And when you’re out of charges?

[warm vortex]

Then don’t use it for dps

[manic quartz]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[warm vortex]

Save it only for chain pulls
At least that’s what I do with pug tanks

[oak eagle]

^

[warm vortex]

!chainpull

[prisma monolith]

Explanation of why stealth benefits aren't as important as you might think:

• For starters, "Chain pulls" are NOT when the tank pulls a new pack with 1% hp remaining on the previous mobs. That is called "Bad Tanking", and it sucks for everyone in your party.
• Correct Chain pulls usually happen while the previous pack is still alive and not dangerous. This increases uptime on more targets, which is the biggest increase in DPS for the entire party. This is also the biggest reason why you see high key level players doing so much damage.
• Garrote is roughly 7-9% of people's damage in a key, most of which is already empowered/cleaved
• Most energy spreading will come from Rupture to maintain scent of blood, not garrote
• Without a Trace (+1 vanish charge) only grants roughly 2 additional casts across a whole dungeon, but does allow for holding vanish for large chain pulls which improves the quality of each vanish
• You can argue that it "feels bad", but numerically there is very little ground to stand on, the dps simply isn't there.

[oak eagle]

i only use as a dps cd on bosses in key

[old terrace]

Just had a halls of atonement where the tank pulled group after group seconds apart. I used both vanish charges in the second and third group, but he just kept pulling after that. There were like 15+mobs at any time

[oak eagle]

especially as bleed build

when was he pulling

was he pulling as the mobs were like sub 5%

[old terrace]

No

[warm vortex]

That’s pugs for ya

[old terrace]

The mobs still had like 75% hp

[oak eagle]

then he was just chaining

[rough nimbus]

just did ara kara and the tank did exactly that

[oak eagle]

pug tanks always do that

[old terrace]

It’s so annoying.

[keen spruce]

get back in the m+ mines

[warm vortex]

I mean
If there’s one mob left of a pack yo could always kidney it so it doesn’t reach the other mobs and put you in combat

[oak eagle]

you just learn to expect it from pugs

[warm vortex]

And still
As the command says, you can still do fine without restealth

[oak eagle]

^

[keen spruce]

that just means the key is too low

[cunning needle]

in raiding, just got my 4p

[warm vortex]

Just start spreading rups manually and get to spattering

[keen spruce]

you'll have infinite energy from you bleeds rolling on the alive mobs

[warm vortex]

Damn nicee

[oak eagle]

i wish i could get tier

trial in new guild tho so no tier for me

[keen spruce]

and just roll them into new garrotes on the new pack

[warm vortex]

I have 2+2 on both my chars

[cunning needle]

had to beat a warrior in roll off

[keen spruce]

sounds like a good tank

keeping things moving

[cunning needle]

another cursed zenith tier

[keen spruce]

[warm vortex]

Tbh BM and AS fee similar in terms of dps in M+ somehow

But then again that’s with pugs

And it’s very easy to gap ppl in pugs

[oak eagle]

yeah fs

i did a key the other night with actual competent players and got out dpsd by a 4set arcane mage

[old terrace]

Arcane mages are crazy right now

[oak eagle]

did 7.5m in that key

woulda beat him i think had i had tier

i beat the aff lock who had 2p+2p

[west mica]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[old terrace]

It was a four, which I guess is kinda low.

[keen spruce]

if my tanks to drag every pack to the next one at 75% hp

for the whole key

your keys per hour

would be astronomical

[warm vortex]

Tbh in premades I’m even doing a large chunk more as BM still

[keen spruce]

that's like the m+ dream

[warm vortex]

Then again I’m trying to squeeze out every possible drop of dps I can

[oak eagle]

yeah but i mean this guy was getting funneled in raid, had heroic frac trink, 4p and it was also just a really good player, it was equibus

[warm vortex]

Lol fair
Playing with burst classes on low keys feels annoying sometimes

Nothing lives for more than 2 seconds XD

[oak eagle]

i mean it wasnt a low key, it was an 11, i probably woulda done more had it been a 12

[old terrace]

Taht would be true if we weren't wiping every 2 minutes to trash

[oak eagle]

but were just farming 704 gear

[warm vortex]

Fair

I need to start doing higher keys

But it’s week one so I might just try for 6s n shit

[oak eagle]

gotta get your 8 10s this week

[warm vortex]

Already got heroic pacemaker on both characters and crafted wep

[oak eagle]

kinda want a pacemaker for fatebound in raid

[warm vortex]

I’ve done 1 on my hunter and that’s it

[oak eagle]

rip

i been farming those since tuesday

[warm vortex]

It’s so difficult to get into pug groups, and I’m going back to uni soon while still trying to raid in 2 different guilds at once

[oak eagle]

oh yeah thats gonna suck

[warm vortex]

But eh
As said it’s only week 1
And knowing my luck that one mythic slot is gonna be lily or something

[warm vortex]

Tbh once I find out the actual schedules for my uni I can decide if I can raid mythic this tier or not

[oak eagle]

thats fair

[brisk path]

do we pop Shiv with 4p even when we have DN up during DM?

[marsh fjord]

The same rules still apply

you shiv, and 11 seconds later you shiv again

[brisk path]

okay, thanks...just asking cuz I didnt want to pop it during DN proc and I felt like its messing with my rotation

[old lily]

can some of you guys show me a SS of your post m+ details damage breakdown?

[devout hazel]

bro

did we got nerfed overnight

[old lily]

i think in the latest video whispyr mentioned that caustic was double dipping which they fixed so it went from 48% to 40

[old terrace]

do we hold our deathmark and shivs for execute phase? Or open with it?

[agile current]

how much should i pool for energy when cds are coming off?

[warm vortex]

What do you mean

[agile current]

like is there a specific number

[warm vortex]

If it’s for DM then I don’t think so

[old terrace]

whats confusing you? I can reword it

[warm vortex]

Do you mean like
In a pack

[old terrace]

boss fight

[warm vortex]

I mean
I’d open at the start

No reason to hold it

[hazy horizon]

guys how bad is it to have 15K haste

[warm vortex]

Not bad at all

If that’s what your sims say then it’s fine

!stats

[prisma monolith]

There are no "recommended stat levels" or "breakpoint of X stat" or "required" amount of any stats. This is an outdated way to think about stats and simply is not relevant to the spec. If you're looking for a quick recommendation: Agi >> Crit = Mastery >= Haste > VersatilityIt's always more accurate to simulate your own character, as stat procs from trinkets/enchants can often de-value their stat relative to others. Stats are not a rigid construct, their values change constantly in relation to each other depending on your character.

• Signet of the Priory will require you have Mastery as your highest RATING (the actual number, not the %). Having Crit and Mastery close to one another will cause procs from Flask or Seaforium Pacemaker to cause your Signet to give you Crit. This is generally worse and will cause Signet to sim poorly.
• Compared to each other, Deathstalker wants more Mastery/Haste than Fatebound, and Fatebound wants more Crit than Deathstalker
• Always Always ALWAYS sim yourself through Top Gear and Droptimizer for accurate results

[old terrace]

even with Zoldyck Recipe?

[warm vortex]

Yes

Hell depending on the boss you can prolly fit another in execute

[jolly stirrup]

You dont

You can for min/max

But not necessary

[twilit jacinth]

How much % dps increase does the set help in ST and aoe?

[faint path]

Why they are not nerfing assas rogue its super asf broken 😄

[nova kelp]

coz it's fine clearly

[faint path]

sureee 😄

[nova kelp]

my anecdotal exp > yours

[faint path]

Its super asf broken overall dmg wise for sure they need to nerf assas 😄

[spice surge]

Then we can just swap to the other rogue specs which are also really strong in keys

[agile current]

@warm vortex @jolly stirrup ahh ty ty

[burnt star]

On what basis? On what content. On what gear lvl/tier. And with who are u conparing

Cose . It has its good but its not op

And there are better clas. So its fine

[nova kelp]

he's just going to say "literally every possible case"

[faint path]

11 key dawnbreaker old 4 set 720 weapon crafted

And thats op ıdk why u guys acting like that hahahah

[burnt star]

And clearly checking right now is troll. Balance was made with 4p on everyone and trinket weapon item lvl equal

[normal mist]

Eleem I've been doing keys with with some friends and we usually don't invite other rogues besides me so I haven't played with other specs.
I've been gapping people by 2M dps overall (they do around 4.5ish I'm at 6.5ish), are the other Rogue specs this crazy too?

[burnt star]

I mean.. ur basis to.compare is 1 dungeon. 🤣

[half dawn]

can we use bleed build on the council fight in raid?

[faint path]

Im doing 11 keys last 2 days all of them assas was super broken on aoe. Not single target tho

[half dawn]

in nm/hc

[nova kelp]

I've seen ferals pump 8 mill overall

nerf feral

I've seen dks pump 8 mill overall

nerf dks

[burnt star]

Look thid 1 time i did super good and people where bad.. therefore class op 🤣

[nova kelp]

I've pumped 8 mill overall, nerf me

[faint path]

Anyway there is no need to talk u guys are insanenly fanatic hahahahah

[normal mist]

I'm only 2set 692 tho

[nova kelp]

dont' think you actually got hit with any denail or fanatical behaviour my dude

just peeps meming on your knee jerk

[half dawn]

thoughts on bleed build on soul hunters?

[faint path]

Whatever I say u will just say assas is not broken

[burnt star]

Irs funny.. i wonder where 1 could check and compare number

[nova kelp]

whatever anyone says you'll say it is

pointless points

[burnt star]

Oh right.. u can check warcraft log and filter by dungeon and by key lvl

[faint path]

Even big rogue streamers are telling its suprr broken

[nova kelp]

streamers always talk about things being broken

[warm vortex]

Blizzard is just gonna nerf warrior

So no discussion is needed

[burnt star]

Stop spreading lie plz and asking for nerf

With 0 basis except a personnal experience with no data

[marble hemlock]

season has been out for 5 days, how about we wait a bit until everyone gets their 4pc and items they need to unleash their full potential before we proclaim what is op etc.

that being said, all 3 rogue specs are looking to be very competitive atm in m+, yeah.

[empty hinge]

maybe someone has asked this before but do we sim with crit flask now for fatebound

or still alchemical choas

[sage wagon]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[normal mist]

Can I then /lol at my gf because she's 4pc, higher ilvl than me and still doesn't pump?

[kindred breach]

Finally home lets rumbleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

https://tenor.com/view/eminem-mask-robin-gif-2620599489105382922

[marble hemlock]

sounds like that one might have certain repercussions, but you can certainly try

[royal lantern]

nobody here said that

the normal people say "its frking not even a week, why do people mald over balance"

like

jfc you have to be GIGA cooked to see week1 heroic/m+ where nobody has gear/tier/trinkets and allready talk about balance lol

assa in m+ is really strong yeha, but like, wait for 2 more weeks when everyone has some iems and then lets see how it looks again before you go full reddit brain

[rancid crypt]

How is Sin's ST dmg with the m+ build? i heard someone say it is crappy

[royal lantern]

bad

assa ST in dungeons is not great

[static glacier]

y'know what I don't understand

why are people saying sin is x sin is y

as if sins performance on patch release isn't always this good (which it is)

every patch this expac we've destroyed overalls

every single one

[normal mist]

She does ask me "do you want to die???" A lot

[marble hemlock]

and then you give her a mischievous wink and say "depends on how you plan on killing me"?

[royal lantern]

EVERY SINGLE PATCH its the same dance for every class

like

the game is over 20 years old

how can people still be so dumb about it all the time

and sorry, but it is just dumb

[static glacier]

idk another specs have a bit more variation in performance

[normal mist]

I've gotten past that phase already, the flirty winks are long gone, now I just say "you're all talk yet below me in details"

[royal lantern]

new patch releases->WTF X SPEC IS SO BROKEN OMG LOOK AT THIS WEEK 1 NUMBER WTF

and in the same frking week1 you allready see other stuff creeping up aswell

and then when everyone has gear it looks vaslty different again

always the same dance

[static glacier]

yep

[royal lantern]

and still, Gamers gonna be Gamers

[static glacier]

bleed build blasting

[normal mist]

Which isn't what I should say to a pregnant lady

[static glacier]

on patch release

[marble hemlock]

fair fair

[royal lantern]

like, remember TWW launch

where people went the same craze

cus assa in m0 was executing stuff early with SD

then m+ released and nobody cared

but during the m0 week i was OMG WTF ASSA SO OP 24/7 lol

[static glacier]

we saw some representation but we were like second choice behind fdk

for the melee spot

[raw marlin]

wen fatebound pog in m+ please fix, close discord or something

[midnight mist]

we have data from ptr tho

[tall atlas]

rationale for perfecto playin sub on forgemaster?

rashanan

[midnight mist]

sub nukes adds

[tall atlas]

ye

sec tech

fair

[torn dome]

Crafting order?

[midnight mist]

the adds need to die fast and sub manage to have damage on every set so its good

and sub damage is quick to go out so

boom boom you know

[past grail]

!MACRO

[prisma monolith]

With this you will not accidently use more than 1 charge of tea if youre spamming:

/cast Shiv 
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null

Use this to cast cold blood with Kingsbane, which is optimal for Fatebound. The order does not matter, as Cold Blood is only consumed on Envenoms.

#showtooltip Kingsbane
/cast Cold Blood
/cast Kingsbane

Assassination uses no other macros aside from standard Deathmark+Potion+Racial+Trinket

[midnight mist]

also there is a damage amp

that last uh

i think its like 20s or smth

but sin prolly can do similar damage during damage amp i think you can preramp

[raw marlin]

is Subnautica: Below Zero worth it if ive never completed subnautica? its on 75% discount atm for like £6 lol

[royal lantern]

ptr numbers, aka "people repeat what they heared a random content creator say"

[frigid lagoon]

when playing bleed build on st, does it matter if you stay above 150 energy?

[midnight mist]

?

what

[raw marlin]

its technically a gain but also very hard to manage

[royal lantern]

thats the way most players ineract with the ptr

[midnight mist]

you just do keys on ptr or watch other do keys on ptr

[royal lantern]

you think they actually look at the numbers?

[raw marlin]

no i just watch you

[midnight mist]

idk

i think if someone think assa is op rn

they are proilly right

[raw marlin]

I think I watched you on HoA and the outlaw dps was very dead lol

[midnight mist]

doesnt matter if they listened to a streamer tier list

[royal lantern]

like, the far far far FAR majority of WoW players are literally just Tier list repeaters and thats kinda it

[frigid lagoon]

what boss are you guys talking about that sub is better on

[raw marlin]

tbf i think ret paladin has a good balacned player base

[frigid lagoon]

and on mythic or hc?

[midnight mist]

forgeblaster

mythic ye

[royal lantern]

it is really strong rn

its about going insane on week1 of a patch where nobody has gear

when like, its 20 years, how often is it that a spec that is "insane broken on week1" where nobody has gear is still in the same spot 3weeks later lol

[midnight mist]

ok but

we know from ptr

that assa in keys

is prolyl the best spec in the game

by far

lucky its also strong in low keys with 0 gear

[royal lantern]

thats not the fucking point zac

[midnight mist]

whats the fucking point

[royal lantern]

brainlets going crazy mode on every single patch launch as if the sky is falling

[midnight mist]

hm

[raw marlin]

hm

[midnight mist]

they are right tho

[raw marlin]

baguette

i think we should nerf paladin

[royal lantern]

ill give it

zac is spending too much time with zeross

[tall atlas]

sin is probably the best spec to lean into

but sub has instant upfront huge damage

so if there is an add that NEEDS to die or some thing like that then sub is probably where you go

[midnight mist]

i mean im just confused whatr the point is

haha

[tall atlas]

just for sectech

[raw marlin]

sextech is fun though

[tall atlas]

it is

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAolDu_cCGk

and if you look here Perfecto is doing amazing overall on sub also

[midnight mist]

they should be playing outlaw fr

[tall atlas]

okay Capn <.<

[raw marlin]

outlaw was fun in DF

[tall atlas]

Capn Zac

Capn Zac Sparrow

[gray briar]

just asking, does the 30% bonus dmg only works for DOTS i apply AFTER i used shiv? or does shiv boost DOTs that are allready applied?

[radiant snow]

!fatebound

[old terrace]

I would play outlaw, but I really don’t care to farm an extra set of weapons

[raw marlin]

can outlaws use off hand dagger?

[old terrace]

Idk, never tried

But I sold my boomy weapon or feral weapon like 4 times on Druid lol. I’ll just stick with sub/sin for now

[raw marlin]

i have 2 maces i think from raid as noone needed them lol

alsos preach getting jacked or what

[radiant snow]

anyone have any tips for fatebound

feel like im playing it wrong because im so used to deathstalker

[raw marlin]

wowhead and whispyr vide

o

[odd sun]

yes because outlaws offhand is just a statstick

[winter vapor]

see pins for videos by whispyr

[radiant snow]

tyty

[raw marlin]

but you can use all abilities?

[odd sun]

yes because outlaws abilities only hit with mainhand lol

[raw marlin]

lol dont do this well get nerfed

[gray briar]

?

[lapis shuttle]

!up

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1403486905915408524/Dark_Mode.jpg

[frigid lagoon]

has sub rotation changed this season?

just been playing assa so far x)

[raw marlin]

no idea im a moron at sub havent played it since DF academy lol

[frigid lagoon]

ah ok ok

[normal kite]

there is no snapshotting

[gray briar]

ok that mens?
(sry ^^)

[normal kite]

it will only buff dots during its duration

[old terrace]

Was there snapshotting last season?

[normal kite]

new or old, doesn't matter

[half dawn]

Does the ST fatebound build require new set?

[gray briar]

ah ok so i dont need to reapply them during shiv. thx!

[normal kite]

improved garrote and the 2-target hero talent for CT

[old terrace]

But not in this season? Cool, that changes things

[normal kite]

still relevant this season if you play with those talents

[spice surge]

Follow the blood does not snapshot

[visual sun]

tried 11 gambit... as fatebound cuz forgot to change

aoe is wet noodle, gaming on ST tho

[spice lagoon]

i just started playing rogue and im having a blast lol

[spice surge]

Its the "damage increased per target" bit of ct that snapshots

[visual sun]

was cringing not to be called out all throughout

[old terrace]

Idk why so many people hate it

[spice lagoon]

im not sure if its just the increase challenge for me then fury or fdk

[spice lagoon]

i love it its a challenge its feels so nice this season

[old terrace]

I feel naughty sneaking around and backstabbing people

[normal kite]

thought it did, mbmb

[spice lagoon]

helll yeah i love going stealth applying all my garrotes and ruptures and poisons on enemies and seeing that damage boost

after i got the back piece its been on

[spice lagoon]

fate bound sin in pvp is super crazy

[halcyon crypt]

guys i lost my macro for rupture that was working like mousover but if i dint have mouse over would cast on my taarget

can someone help ?

[spice lagoon]

so instead of me clicking the enemies name plate can i add a macro that auto casts once i put my mouse cursor over the enemies name plate?

[half dawn]

!up

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1403486905915408524/Dark_Mode.jpg

[spice lagoon]

auto cast like rupture and garrot

?

[halcyon crypt]

no

if i dont have my mouseover any target will caast on target

o should be able to cast on my target but i cant

unless i mouse over

[pliant remnant]

You just add "; Rupture" after it

as an "else" conditional

[quasi ledge]

#showtooltip
/cast [target=mouseover,exists,nohelp] Rupture,Rupture

[spice lagoon]

can i do that for garrott as well?^

[halcyon crypt]

dosent work wobagger

[pliant remnant]

because

you need

[warm vortex]

Usually a lot of bugs
Never given attention by bliz
Sub + outlaw especially receive a lot less attention
Removal of acro strikes was annoying for all 3 specs, especially outlaw

[pliant remnant]

to use

a semi-colon

like I said

not

a comma

[warm vortex]

Peter what do you put on yourself

[pliant remnant]

coffee

mostly

[warm vortex]

Like maple syrup, fruit, ect

Ah alr

[pliant remnant]

Ohhh

[warm vortex]

I meant on

[pliant remnant]

Jam usually

[warm vortex]

Autocorrect

[pliant remnant]

[tawdry flint]

whats up gamers, coming back this tier after missing the last. Quick question, we still running DS in m+? saw the recent pin about fatebound in raid now

[pliant remnant]

or just fruits

Strawberries are banger

[tawdry flint]

just want to check for m+

[radiant raven]

Strawberries are pretty good

[grim jay]

The last part is cope

[warm vortex]

Love strawberry

Have it + raspberries every morning for breakfast with porridge

[grim jay]

It affected all of them equally

[warm vortex]

It is

[grim jay]

[warm vortex]

Oh?

That part

[tawdry flint]

also frozen fruits in porridle is the game changer

[warm vortex]

I just heard people say it

So I put it in

[tawdry flint]

summer fruits, dark chocolate, oats and protein powder

[warm vortex]

I thought you meant the acro removal was cope

Haha

[pliant remnant]

Raspberry's decent

[warm vortex]

Also

Yes we are

[pliant remnant]

Strawberries + blueberries is the god combo though

[tawdry flint]

cheers boss

[warm vortex]

Fatebound is dog water in aoe

[hollow saddle]

what spec is the meta now? considering logging in.

[spice lagoon]

peter for that rupture macro up there can i aslo use that for my garrot to?

[grim jay]

Ye because they are crying for uptime all day

[warm vortex]

All 3 are good

[whole wolf]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[warm vortex]

And perform different roles

[grim jay]

Too early to say what will be meta

[tawdry flint]

DS so much more fun to play too, a tad more stimulating

[pliant remnant]

Yeh, 'course, just replace Rupture with Garrote

[spice lagoon]

ok ty

[warm vortex]

I disagree

Personally

[grim jay]

Got a feeling sub is kinda finding a place aswell in m+ setups

[warm vortex]

The 90s burst is fun

The big problem I have with DS is a specific one

Sometimes things interact horribly with it

Like the pillars or whatever on forgeweaver

Or smth like rashnan needing it reapplied

Not that big but it can be annoying. Mostly a skill issue on my part

[halcyon crypt]

#showtooltip Garrote
/cast [@mouseover,harm,exists,nodead][] Garrote

#showtooltip Rupture
/cast [@mouseover,harm,exists,nodead][] Rupture

[midnight atlas]

imagine how society would've looked like if DM was some sort of personal buff

[halcyon crypt]

i find on casual discor thanks god

ty for the help everyone

[rotund oak]

dont log in( Aff/Destro Lock,both insane both in pve and pvp)

[rotund oak]

how would that work

as a buff i mean

[warm vortex]

Would be so much nicer

[lunar pond]

Spatter but bleeds for who you mutilate

[warm vortex]

Just the debuff but on yourself
Some talents would need changing but you could easily use spatter in place of a mark when needed

[rotund oak]

thats some wild cook

[rotund oak]

ah nice liek BtE for the pirate

becoming a buff

cool cool

[quasi ledge]

What of the 3 Demon Hunter bosses is the one we want to hit? I remember one of them stays in one place most of the time

[shy sorrel]

Is 2x Active trinkets fine? I'm thinking one when you use DM and then the other one to use when you use Shiv for example

Bleed build^

[rotund oak]

not rly but depends

also depends the trinkets

like low ilvl doesnt even matter

[warm vortex]

Yes

You hit all 3

[brave comet]

i killed kyveza on easy mode, is there supposed to be no rewards?

[shy sorrel]

I'm thinking like 704 Stone idol or SIgnet and then 710 Lily of the valley

[warm vortex]

Believe so

[warm vortex]

What do sims say

[rotund oak]

achievement and a quest u can do IF u have cleared t11s before

[warm vortex]

Also double on use

[velvet pier]

!craft

[prisma monolith]

Preferences currently are wrist/dagger for embellishment depending on what you go for

Darkmoon Sigil Ascension (dagger) + Writhing Banding (wrist) is generally "the best" overall, but Blessed Weapon Grip + Dawnthread can be VERY VERY slightly better in m+

Always craft a dagger for at least an offhand. Put Ascencion or Blessed Weapon Grip on it. Additional Crafts should be Wrist (maybe Belt later in the patch after dropping the delve belt) for your second embellishment, after that whatever low item level slot is fine, necks can be good crafts.
If you have a myth track weapon in your main hand already read the above and pick whatever you prefer

[burnt star]

Dont forget tazavesh theater 😅

[lunar pond]

This and stone idol is annoying to use

[frigid lagoon]

even with fatebound 4p, am i meant to sync vendetta/kb with trinkets?

[burnt star]

Being unable to stealth.. and mob not diying..

[warm vortex]

Oh yea fuck that

[rotund oak]

stone idol has a channel cast

[brave comet]

for easy mode? not the ?? difficulty

[rotund oak]

for easy mode as well

for ?? its ''let me solo her''

[burnt star]

Like.. this season is crazy on how many interaction incompatible with d.s

[warm vortex]

Tbh taz is great but I hate the band section on rogue and also captain hook tail is prolly my least fav boss this season

[shy sorrel]

Oh also, is bleed better than KB in higher keys?

[pliant remnant]

Bro said Vendetta

[rotund oak]

n1 rule

if u ask for bleed build u should play it

[warm vortex]

!bleed

[prisma monolith]

Bleed vs Hybrid vs Cleave/FI builds
Broad rules and Section in Guide:

1. If you have to ask, you should play bleed
2. If you're not doing +20's or higher, you should play bleed
3. Even if you're doing higher, you should probably play bleed
4. No, Fatebound is not good, you play Deathstalker in every key.

Some general concepts as to why people play different things:

• 11.2/Season 3: Bleed has gotten stronger through some buffs and the single target damage you get from singular focus is ridiculously good with the tier set. During PTR testing many high end rogues were just playing bleed everywhere.
• Ease of play: Bleed build is simply the easiest to play due to subterfuge/no kingsbane/less need for giant prio targets
• Boss damage: The cleave build is mainly for boss damage (note: not prio, there is no significant difference in prio). Assa single target in keys is pretty bad, and some bosses during season 2 were not possible on high keys otherwise. It remains to be seen what push keys in Season 3 will bring in that regard.
• Specific Dungeons: Rookery as an example is very boss-heavy, especially the last boss, making bleed less ideal. Rookery is not in the rotation in Season 3, and there are a lot of AoE dungeons. Dawnbreaker might be a candidate, but unsure currently.
• Where the damage is: Bleed spreads out its damage and does great overall due to sudden demise and powerful 3-8 target damage. Hybrid is competitve but doesn't pull ahead outside of low target cleave and higher target AoE. Cleave is for single target damage and insanely large aoe because of how much caustic and crimson tempest carry aoe damage. At the end of the day, the builds are extremely similar, but Bleed is looking to simply be the best.

[pliant remnant]

But also, if you have a 1min30 trinket, yes, otherwise AFAIK you never hold CDs for trinkets, you just send trinkets every other CD cycle

[warm vortex]

Just play bleed if you want the best build

[rotund oak]

pacemaker + that ecodome trinket is the cook

[frigid lagoon]

i keep doing that i keep forgetting its deathmark (theyre the same thing)

[rotund oak]

else the raid ones

[brave comet]

does it work as well in duos?

[shy sorrel]

You ignore the 50% energy in ST right?

[vagrant lagoon]

in bleed build do you fok for combo points (without proc) or just mutilate

[warm vortex]

Hybrid and even cleave are playable, but tbh

Bleed will do more damage in nearly every key, is easier, and is also more enjoyable for most people

[rotund oak]

im not sure,ive solo'd both easy mode and ??

[warm vortex]

Ye

[warm vortex]

What

[frigid lagoon]

apparently keeping above 50% is a gain

[shy sorrel]

Is it the same for like duobosses like Floodgate one?

[vagrant lagoon]

like how many mobs would you mutilate instead of fok

[warm vortex]

In carnage use gar
If all targets are dotted or out of carn in aoe, use Fok
If in st or 2 targets, use mutil

Oh

!fok

[prisma monolith]

Fok Conditions Post-Buff
Fan of Knives as a generator to replace ambush/mutilate:

• Baseline 3+ targets, -1 if talented into momentum of despair and thrown precision, +1 if talented into vicious venoms, +1 if talented into blindside. (Generally 5 with raid build, 3 with Bleed m+, 2 with Hybrid m+)
  Fan of Knives with Clear the Witnesses Up:
• Baseline 2+ targets, -1 if lingering darkness is up or you aren't talented into vicious venoms. With Vicious Venoms casting during lingering darkness is dps neutral.
  Fan of Knives with Darkest Night Up:
• Only on 2+ targets, or without Vicious Venoms talented. This is also a very very minor optimization

The most important to remember is the generator rules, clear the witnesses and darkest night optimizations can be effectively ignored as they are not meaningful DPS improvements

[warm vortex]

This should answer it

[vagrant lagoon]

oh sweet ty

[twin plume]

Guys does anyone have problem with /simc? I won't open for me

[normal mist]

you can see them... riiiight there!

[warm vortex]

I’m p sure whispy said it doesn’t matter

[normal mist]

^

[warm vortex]

Also hi royal

[normal mist]

Hi cutie

[pastel roost]

quick question , how de we initiate a surrender vote in M+ , does anyone know ?

[warm vortex]

How’s it going :>

[warm vortex]

What happened

[brave comet]

the door is locked the boss died during intermission

[burnt star]

Not in game yet

[brave comet]

i cant get to the chest

[frigid lagoon]

https://discordapp.com/channels/124169701881282560/316923750073499648/1406613936261955696

[warm vortex]

Yea, it’s like that with all nemisi no?

[pastel roost]

Friends in vocal going wild, dps has 4 kick total

[shy sorrel]

And like do you stay above 150 when the adds spawn on the first boss in gambit?

[warm vortex]

Yea, I said Whispyr said it probably doesn’t matter

[burnt star]

Happened to a hunter ib my.guild.. they received everhthing in mail

[normal mist]

i know... same happened to me once, boss died when she entered the clones hide and seek phase ._.

[sharp trellis]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[warm vortex]

Like yea you can stay above it

But most likely it’s just going to mess up your rota as you focus too much on it. Most times in ST you can’t stay above 150 while keeping everything else in check

[rotund oak]

normally on the guides ive seen for ?? and a couple of vids u always press DM+Trinket+pot after shades

[rose dirge]

Are we going bleed build or hybrid in m+?

[rotund oak]

so she wont bug out like that

[shy sorrel]

!bleed

[prisma monolith]

Bleed vs Hybrid vs Cleave/FI builds
Broad rules and Section in Guide:

1. If you have to ask, you should play bleed
2. If you're not doing +20's or higher, you should play bleed
3. Even if you're doing higher, you should probably play bleed
4. No, Fatebound is not good, you play Deathstalker in every key.

Some general concepts as to why people play different things:

• 11.2/Season 3: Bleed has gotten stronger through some buffs and the single target damage you get from singular focus is ridiculously good with the tier set. During PTR testing many high end rogues were just playing bleed everywhere.
• Ease of play: Bleed build is simply the easiest to play due to subterfuge/no kingsbane/less need for giant prio targets
• Boss damage: The cleave build is mainly for boss damage (note: not prio, there is no significant difference in prio). Assa single target in keys is pretty bad, and some bosses during season 2 were not possible on high keys otherwise. It remains to be seen what push keys in Season 3 will bring in that regard.
• Specific Dungeons: Rookery as an example is very boss-heavy, especially the last boss, making bleed less ideal. Rookery is not in the rotation in Season 3, and there are a lot of AoE dungeons. Dawnbreaker might be a candidate, but unsure currently.
• Where the damage is: Bleed spreads out its damage and does great overall due to sudden demise and powerful 3-8 target damage. Hybrid is competitve but doesn't pull ahead outside of low target cleave and higher target AoE. Cleave is for single target damage and insanely large aoe because of how much caustic and crimson tempest carry aoe damage. At the end of the day, the builds are extremely similar, but Bleed is looking to simply be the best.

[normal mist]

bleed

[shy sorrel]

Did not mean for it to be a response to you, terribly sorry

[rotund oak]

[warm vortex]

Yea sap, learn how to play assa

[rotund oak]

ik dw

[warm vortex]

Smh

[velvet pier]

How much crit do we want - like with every sim i do, im going WAY into penalty area with FB build.
Am i crazy for just trusting the sims and just overcap?

[warm vortex]

Yes trust the sim

The robot knows

[rotund oak]

no break points,whatever the robot says

[normal mist]

My daughter is starting to kick the belly with some power lately btw, which was funny this morning because she was kicking lightly and when i told her that if she power kicked we'd go out for breakfast, she roundhouse kicked my wife's belly LOL @rotund oak @warm vortex

[warm vortex]

Ignore bis lists and stat prio (minus some breakpoints! And sim

[rotund oak]

u are gonna lose your mind bro,she's gonna hit u hard

hahahahaha

[warm vortex]

She heard you haha

[rotund oak]

❤️

[frigid lagoon]

if you macro vanish to kb, is there a chance it gets used on a kb outside of deathmark?

[normal mist]

dont do that

[frigid lagoon]

dont macro vanish to kb?

[acoustic roost]

Already more interrupts used than an average pug

[normal mist]

no

[fresh kelp]

my free crypto noo

[warm vortex]

Royal how am I meant to get money now

[normal mist]

all mine

[warm vortex]

!macro

[prisma monolith]

With this you will not accidently use more than 1 charge of tea if youre spamming:

/cast Shiv 
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null

Use this to cast cold blood with Kingsbane, which is optimal for Fatebound. The order does not matter, as Cold Blood is only consumed on Envenoms.

#showtooltip Kingsbane
/cast Cold Blood
/cast Kingsbane

Assassination uses no other macros aside from standard Deathmark+Potion+Racial+Trinket

[frigid lagoon]

oh i misread the guide, it says to only macro cb not vanish mb

[warm vortex]

These are the only rogue ones you rlly need

Yeye al good

[normal mist]

Wdym, whats up

[warm vortex]

Unlike hunter, I don’t need one of the crashin thrashin toys macroed

[normal mist]

xD

[warm vortex]

Was just joking about the scam post dw

[normal mist]

OH LOL

[warm vortex]

Yea

[normal mist]

Well you work

:3

[warm vortex]

Also I’m not joking about the crashing thing btw

It’s so cooked

[sand otter]

is everyone still using start attack macros for all thier basic moves?

[sand otter]

/startattack
/cast Mutilate```

like this?

[normal mist]

not really

[warm vortex]

I’ve never seen that in my life

[sand otter]

remember that being all the rage in like.... cata

[warm vortex]

Am I too much of a zoomer

Yea

[sand otter]

back in my day.....

[boreal mist]

with bleed in m+ are we playing above 150 energy on st, or just dump envenoms?

[normal mist]

no 150

just pump

150energy thing is dead

[warm vortex]

Iirc enven is the last thing on the prio list btw

You want your rups and gars and tempest up

Iirc DN is high prio tho

But I could be wrong

[normal mist]

DN - rupture - garrote - CT - env

[warm vortex]

Ye

DN is like top prio no matter what right? Or is CT higher in aoe

[modern pendant]

Whats my spender in aoe once all bleeds are up?

[warm vortex]

Enven

[normal mist]

envenom

[frigid lagoon]

i wanna ask what DN is but i feel like im being setup for a deez nuts joke

[warm vortex]

Make sure to mutil a target so you can spatter

[normal mist]

Darkest night

[warm vortex]

Aka the buff you get after consuming all marks

The one that gives your next 7cp enven big crit and applies mark

It’s how you reapply it outside of stealth or

[normal mist]

either that or you stealth ambush another target yeah

[warm vortex]

You also get it when a target dies

So you can open with garrote instead of ambush next pull

[frigid lagoon]

why does the wowhead guide have two sliders it's tilting me off the cliff of the earth

[normal mist]

wdym

[safe swift]

is the ticking sack of terror out of streets any good for m+? i seem to remember it was a pretty good trinket back in the day

[frigid lagoon]

it has that top one, and another slider underneath

[normal mist]

oh weird

[normal mist]

www.raidbots.com

[warm vortex]

You simmed it?

[safe swift]

nee

[warm vortex]

I think I know what you mean but I don’t remember how it simmed for me

The only thing I remember that well about taz trinkets was a guardian being v excited about looting a heroic mailbox thing

She then did a boss and said trinket was like 14% of her dps

[boreal mist]

wowhead says to play for 150 rip

[burnt star]

Forget wowhead

[charred mango]

I know DN is super high priority but if we’re going into a new pack with it shouldn’t we throw up a rupture/mut to spatter it?

[lethal forge]

guyzz best video for masterizing aoe rotation in m+???

[normal mist]

where

[raw marlin]

4. every key except streets lol

[boreal mist]

under single target rotation with bleed build mythic selected

[normal mist]

Okay, "if there is nothing significant happening" is important

BUT you can indeed ignore point 10, The guide writter himself said so

its such a small gain

its not worth thinking

[fathom flax]

It is insane how much nicer and smoother playing fate is

I love it

[normal mist]

me too actually

[fathom flax]

Or at least I don’t hate it like ds

[boreal mist]

yeah i wou,ld just try and sit above 150 not using teas and it felt shit

[normal mist]

you dont worry about teas

you also dont care if you proc them

[tawdry flint]

so we dont take kingsbane in the bleed m+ build?

[distant plinth]

No

[hard sparrow]

under unyielding netherprism it says with 4pc fatebound to play as a 3min cd and macro to vanish. but doesn't fatebound 4pc make dm a 1:30cd, so keeping it macro'd there would still make it a 3min cd. or am i missing something?

[hollow pulsar]

subtlety is better for raid? im watching method hes top 1 dmg in details

[ebon tundra]

do you garrote or ambush from stealth in your st fatebound opener
and if garrote, why so?

[shy edge]

hey guys i have a doubt about big pulls using the bleed build, should i keep applying garrote and rupture while Indiscriminate Carnage is active or I should just apply the amount that is described in the oppener?

[glossy river]

!tier

[prisma monolith]

Get your Season 2 Two Piece immediately, as it is a very powerful gain, stronger than both previous bonuses combined. This is true for both hero talents. The 4 piece is another big step up in dps for both hero talents on top of that.

[hard sparrow]

ye but if it's reduced by 30s twice that's 1min, so still divisible by 3 i don't understand

or is it better for 3 min because of building up stacks?

oh nvm it has 20s cd i thought it was a 2min cd mb xd

[ebon tundra]

pls help im really confused by this haha

[acoustic roost]

you garrote if you're playing the talent

[burnt star]

Takes 3 min for full stack. U get more benefit from using full stack with vanish then 50% without vanish and 50% with vanish

[ebon tundra]

weird that it says to garotte in all the st guides then

if youre not talenting it in st

but thank you <3

[burnt star]

U dont get benefit from ambush with fb

[hard sparrow]

you get an extra cp

[burnt star]

Better get your garrote out asap

[ebon tundra]

isnt it more dmg and 2 more combpoints

really

alright

[dawn seal]

!gear

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1405681489470951594/sin_.webp

[urban wren]

Guys, how much critical % we need on FB ST and DS cleave?

[acoustic roost]

raidbots.com

[prisma cypress]

more is better

[urban wren]

40%?

[acoustic roost]

100%

[midnight mist]

@balmy condor you talked about fatebound range in your last video regarding the adds, do you actually know what the range is ? We never really looked into it for outlaw

[main bridge]

there are no stat requirements, sim top gear

[elder gulch]

for any assa rogues doing 10s+ what is your uptime % of scent of blood generally?

[snow kindle]

Pacemaker is just an alright trinket right kinda bait for Fatebound?

[royal lantern]

i honestly always kinda assumed its the ussual 40yards?

[midnight mist]

what

no

[subtle tundra]

idk but hi

[midnight mist]

im talking about cleave things

disabling themselves and shit

[royal lantern]

oh the cleave

thought you meant the tails dmg

[shy edge]

does anyone can help me here?

[midnight mist]

hi cuh

you playing this season?

[twilit jacinth]

!plater

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Weakauras/Plater profiles:
Whispyr's Afenar Edit
Luxthos's Group
LE's Group
LE's Rogue Collection
Devlin's Group
Ceverion's Plater
Whispyr's Plater

[midnight mist]

im just talking about these 2 talents

[royal lantern]

5 bleeds for scent of blood and energy is what you always want

after that its mostly based on the situation, you dont wanna spend 12 years spreading bleeds on enemys that die fast

[subtle tundra]

logged in today to get my cloak

erm

[royal lantern]

dont

[midnight mist]

huge gaming

[royal lantern]

you escaped varas

dont fall into the trap again

[subtle tundra]

ill be in a split run for my team

[main bridge]

is there some reason you don't want to follow the guide?

[subtle tundra]

not like i can play lol next saturday im going away for a week

[shy edge]

oh thank you so much tryan

[cloud musk]

does DS not like crit in m+ at all? i have 7k crit 17k mastery and 14.5k haste and it wants me to get rid of even more crit in favor of haste and mastery in that order

[shy edge]

another doubt, I have one piece of my tier set, should I catalyst another piece to be 2p and lost the old tier set bonus?

[tiny cradle]

Hey all, I know its something I am doing wrong but when I load the WA it says I am missing Anchors. Where can I get/set that up in the addon?

[main bridge]

are you simming stat weights or something

[main bridge]

the page for the WA you installed probably mentions the requirements. i'm guessing it's Causes Anchors

[tiny cradle]

Thank you I will check that.

I was trying to use https://wago.io/TyRLPd41N

[cold marten]

question , so I feel like everything dies before I can apply my garottes and ruptures from invis

[cloud musk]

no, gear sims from bag.

and droptimizer

[cold marten]

is spreading dots prio in big packs? I feel like my damage is inconsistant and im trying to figure out if im spending to much time trying to do apply dots

[main bridge]

i guess i don't know why you are obsessing over the stats then. you just sim top gear and equip what it suggests

[main bridge]

!carnage

[prisma monolith]

Indiscriminate Carnage Targetting and Swapping
TLDRMouseovers/Target swapping is optimal on 6 target, or 8+ targets, but not necessarily required

• The 2 Bleeds spread by carnage are smart and will prioritize mobs without the bleed. If everything already has bleeds it'll apply randomly
• You as the character are still casting the bleed against your target like normal, this is why people will sometimes use mouseover macros or swap targets

Swapping targets is situationally better, but can be ignored if you're having difficulties with it. Take 5 mob aoe as an example, your first garrote cast will apply to 3 targets (your target + 2 more). Regardless of if you swap or not, your second cast of garrote will hit your target, and then apply 2 more garrotes, prioritizing the mobs that do not have garrote. In very large aoe pulls (12 or more), a standard opener (garrote-garrote-rupture-rupture-garrote-garrote) will only apply 9 garrotes (3+2+2+2) and 5 ruptures (3+2) if you do not swap, losing you 3 garrotes and a rupture.

It is technically worse, but the situations in which you lose bleeds aren't very common; the lost ruptures/garrotes don't contribute much to your already flooded energy, you don't get additional scent of blood stacks, etc. The loss is purely the extra damage from those bleeds.

[main bridge]

if stuff isn't living long i wouldn't spend time applying bleeds because of this ^ - it is already happening

when there isn't a lot of time it's better to make sure you're applying caustic spatter and getting envenoms out in DN

[cold marten]

alright cool it started to feel like that but wasnt to sure

[frigid lagoon]

are there any youtube channels with videos i can watch of people clearing heroic on sin?

[shy edge]

no no, was just a doubt that came up and i thought that more bleed spred more damage i'd cause

[main bridge]

look for the ones with the YT icon https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/rankings/44?class=Rogue&spec=Assassination&difficulty=4

[frigid lagoon]

ty

[fresh mica]

!gear

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1405681489470951594/sin_.webp

[cloud musk]

cause i want to know what to farm, and seeing as DS for m+ and FB for raid prio a different stat, i dont want to waste time, cause i dont have a lot of it

[main bridge]

i just use different gear for each one

you can sim both

[frigid lagoon]

when will they remove power infusion from the game

[visual sun]

when all class discord are hostaged

[marsh fjord]

if you aint doing like 16/17s your stats on DS does not matter a lot. but DS is mastery/crit and FB is crit/mastery

[rose dirge]

Man i really dont like bleed build

[marsh fjord]

I really like it

[rose dirge]

i much prefer kingsbane aoe build

[normal mist]

it aint really good

[marsh fjord]

the kingsbane build even got nerfed due to the bug fix i feel like

since spatter is doing less now

[rose dirge]

yeah i guess i will just have to get used to bleed build

[marsh fjord]

what keys are you doing

what level?

[rose dirge]

but like in opener how much are we spreading garrote and ruptures?

[marsh fjord]

5 atleast. more is extra damage. but not needed

[rose dirge]

alright ty

just doing 10 keys for now

[marsh fjord]

you can play whatever build in keys bro. it doesnt really matter

if your doing 10s

[final star]

If I CT during shiv with new set, does it buff follow the blood CT?

[zenith coral]

"hot envenom loads"

wild

[shy edge]

is 2p better then 4p old tier set guys?

[chrome blaze]

Okay first raid in the books, first time rogue, I did absolutely shit on Soulbinder and Forgeweaver. Does all your pad/AOE damage come from just Caustic, or do you actually try to bleed those targets? Assuming im running DS w/ Caustic

[snow kindle]

caustic

[chrome blaze]

i must be doing other stuff wrong then i dont know. i feel so bad after my performance lol

[snow kindle]

i would bleed one for an energy snipe but thats about it

[steel geyser]

!macro

[prisma monolith]

With this you will not accidently use more than 1 charge of tea if youre spamming:

/cast Shiv 
/castsequence reset=5 Thistle Tea, null

Use this to cast cold blood with Kingsbane, which is optimal for Fatebound. The order does not matter, as Cold Blood is only consumed on Envenoms.

#showtooltip Kingsbane
/cast Cold Blood
/cast Kingsbane

Assassination uses no other macros aside from standard Deathmark+Potion+Racial+Trinket

[snow kindle]

well i mean if your group is intentionally using AOE on adds youre going to do alot less damage

[hexed root]

did they make any changes for forgeweaver? The amount of times we need to change targets and the collector's not giving darkest night felt really bad. I'd assume fatebound w/ caustic is the way to go on that fight?

[chrome blaze]

yeah we're not that coordinated so who knows what people were doing in general

[zenith coral]

!GEAR

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1405681489470951594/sin_.webp

[hoary scroll]

with new 4piece is it still deathmark->shiv? if i sim he always does shiv->deathmark

[acoustic roost]

with fatebound its shiv > deathmark because the shiv buffs the coin flips

[modern pendant]

Can you macro mutilate and ambush?

[main bridge]

Whispyr guide enjoyer

[main bridge]

you don't need to because mutiliate turns into ambush when you have Blindside

[modern pendant]

It doesnt ambush if u mutilate from stealth right? To apply mark

[snow kindle]

where can i read that

how it buffs it

[main bridge]

coin is cosmic damage which includes nature and shiv buffs nature damage

[hoary scroll]

yeah and with deathstalker? sim does shiv->deathmark and not deathmark->shiv

[acoustic roost]

read the top yellow part of a quick sim where it does a sample rotation

[peak helm]

@balmy condor this video slapped https://youtu.be/8m0FA81cLU4?si=LkHsIKOo4M7X5AvW

[golden loom]

[royal lantern]

you play assa

stats are a lie

they allready are for everyone and people LOVE to overthink them

but espacially assa doesnt really care

[fresh kelp]

that no look right

fatebound wants big crit

[cloud musk]

seeing as i would gain ~4%dps just switching to more crit for FB is quite huge for mythic progress

[royal lantern]

(reminder that whisp puts stat priority in there because he HAS too)

[hexed root]

guess whispyr needs to update

[main bridge]

those are just generalizations though and the best answer specific to your gear is to sim

[royal lantern]

brother

what 4% dps

you are how geared again

[cloud musk]

700

[royal lantern]

why do you care about secondarys before you have stuff on max ilvl and then other options avaible

like

[hexed root]

prob because whispyr's update video says to

[cloud musk]

cause i dont want to get benched against our other rogue?

[acoustic roost]

play better

[royal lantern]

secondarys are a giant meme across the game allready

just equip higher ilvl, if its same ilvl sim

thats it

you mastered World of Warcraft gearing

[hexed root]

apparently fatebound wants crit enough that its worth using different enchants and mana oils and regemming etcetc, obv sim but yea

at our ilvl/hero gear

[royal lantern]

now look at consumables again

and how little they do

[hexed root]

im just listening to the theorycrafter o7

[snow kindle]

i wish just equip higher ilvl was true but for some reason 684 ring was a 50k dps increase over the 694 ring lol

probably not true with gear that has actual main stat tho

[royal lantern]

yeha, because rings and necks are the only exception

cus no mainstat