assassination

[waxen oyster]

sometimes i do wonder where people get the impression embellishments make a meaningful difference

[balmy condor]

I mean to be fair

they were very strong in df

[waxen oyster]

2 years ago

[balmy condor]

just so happens that they nerfed every embellishment by like 9000%

and now they all suck

thorn boots doing 7%

[waxen oyster]

yeah

still 2 years ago

[jaunty sky]

They were ijsane in DF no?

[waxen oyster]

s1 we played flaring cowl for ring

Yes DF was over a year ago

[jaunty sky]

Like i remember the toxic boots on my guardian doing like 20%+ of my dmg

[haughty flicker]

me crafting flaring cowl then not getting ring the entire season

[waxen oyster]

wow players seem kind of slow

to adapt to changes

is a thing i noticed

[shy creek]

read chat and immediately got traumatized

man im leavin

[waxen oyster]

i got mine week 3

noob moment

[normal mist]

I'm not ready for FOTM rerollers

[waxen oyster]

rogue rarely gets long lasting fotm

for some reason

[jaunty sky]

I think its good that theyre not that strong but it would be nice if they were like a consistent level of power each season

[normal mist]

Even so, the time they are here is bad

[waxen oyster]

they are consistent

consistently shit

[jaunty sky]

Nah s1 they were okay

Cause the stats were lower

No?

[normal mist]

Gotta love them repeat the words "sim" and "best build" and "but streamer said x"

[waxen oyster]

i mean it was still minor

i was playing double dawnthread most of s1

because i abused recraft bug

and got double mythic weapon early

i thinki gained maybe 2-3k dps going ascension

[jaunty sky]

How much was that, a percent?

2?

[waxen oyster]

under 1% pretty sure

[jaunty sky]

I think ~5% would feel nice on em

[waxen oyster]

meh i dont really care its nice they're non impactful imo

[jaunty sky]

I mean if the intention is for them to br outclassed by max myth track then yeah

But getting all myth track with usable items kinda sucks if youre not raiding

[waxen oyster]

i mean

3 ilvl off max is literally fine

on most slots

You’d gain more dps racechanging than playing a “best” embellishmen.

[jaunty sky]

Dont

Thats even more stupid

[runic hinge]

you make them impactful people cry at blizz for them having to buy tokens just for crafted gear to get invites or some shit

[haughty flicker]

ive had people argue its like that now

[jaunty sky]

Just farm some mats wtf

Buying tokens for crafted gear

[light harbor]

hey guys hows fatebound looking for s3?

[inner swift]

is it worth removing 1 lethal dose for iron wire?D:

[haughty flicker]

mr whippy put out a good video on it

[haughty flicker]

think the normal recommendation is drop double shiv for iw

(in bleed idk about other builds)

[inner swift]

nah the whole tier set revolvs around shive

[haughty flicker]

definitely not lethal dose though

[inner swift]

you cant do that no more

[haughty flicker]

oh you mean next season

yeah idk

just dont play it

it wont be ld though for sure

[thorn thorn]

The 11.2 guide is up

Read it to find all the incredible changes

[waxen oyster]

so nothing

iron wire is for chumps anyway

if he dies he dies

[hexed root]

so how we feeling about sin going into new raid?

[haughty flicker]

i can feel it mr krabs

[hallow glade]

Might be good on st fights and bad in cleave

[waxen oyster]

if its good its good

else we play another spec

or enjoy time off

[normal mist]

There are some funny things there actually

Like ... A sword

[balmy condor]

I'm still fixing some stuff

what

what sword

[hexed root]

https://tenor.com/view/fix-futurama-help-fry-fixit-gif-4525230

[haughty flicker]

there is no sword in ba sing se

[balmy condor]

bro we got our copyedits

and then immediately after they go

[balmy condor]

"moving guides to live"

[balmy condor]

okay

erm

adding that to the list

[haughty flicker]

the lightsaber pog

[balmy condor]

what the fuck happened there

[hexed root]

[normal mist]

Good luck with all the editing whispyr

[thorn thorn]

Yoooo when did they let sin use swords?

[shy heron]

Today and today only

[haughty flicker]

why does the raid icon on the trinket tier list still have nerubar

lazy wowhead smh

[keen spruce]

just make everything tooltip to a fishing pole

[balmy condor]

what do you suggest instead for an icon

[shy heron]

[haughty flicker]

[keen spruce]

make it a picture of a can of raid

or garf

[waxen oyster]

why is the trinket icon iqd

[haughty flicker]

yeah wtf

[jaunty sky]

Cool looking sword to be fair

[balmy condor]

I can't take any of you guys anywhere

[keen spruce]

as long as you ake me

take

[balmy condor]

someone tell me a dagger that drops in m+

[shy heron]

It's Sunday let me sleep in til 8pm

[jaunty sky]

You got unpaid QA at least

[haughty flicker]

oh a lot of the tooltips are cursed but idk if thats something you can fix

or if its even on my end

[balmy condor]

yeah I'm ngl

I saw that

and idk why

I tried to fix it for like 30 min

[haughty flicker]

[balmy condor]

and it wouldn't fix

[shy heron]

[balmy condor]

and I was like whelp

I think it might be a fucky cause its using the PTR database cause live isn't on 11.2 or some shit

idk

[haughty flicker]

seems to only be new trinkets so makes sense

[balmy condor]

oh boy a dagger

I found one

[normal mist]

Be sure it is an agility one too!

[balmy condor]

fuck

you're so right

there's no new agi dagger from m+

god fuck

[haughty flicker]

is there actually

[balmy condor]

you're telling me I have to go look for an old dagger

[haughty flicker]

that goes hard

uh

[balmy condor]

tazavesh has one surely right

DAWNBREAKER HAS ONE

aight saved

[haughty flicker]

oh you got one nice

[normal mist]

BIS

[balmy condor]

too slow bel

I found one before you

L + ratio

[normal mist]

Checkmate

[haughty flicker]

[normal mist]

Now I sleep

Y'all help whispyr with this school project

(I'm so not ready for reset day)

[balmy condor]

bro the databases not syncing

is so fucked

[thorny rain]

@balmy condor is your Fatebound video coming soon?

[normal mist]

Already did

[balmy condor]

already out

n00b

[vestal geyser]

gottem

[thorny rain]

lol ok watching it now

noob

[urban iron]

is there a command for the bis list + sims etc...like used to be here?

[normal mist]

Oh no

[balmy condor]

yes but we don't suggest you use it

so you're gonna have to put the work in yourself cause I'm not enabling that behavior

[haughty flicker]

[normal mist]

Aka just sim your gear

Use whatever has more ilvl

[vestal geyser]

the best gear are* the ones that look the coolest

[balmy condor]

does someone know if this is like some stupid horde/alliance things

cause I fell for it before

with like a bfa dungeon

[pliant remnant]

The best gear is the gear you actually have and/or can get

[normal mist]

We are watching live how a BiS list is made

[tropic shard]

guys im new at rogue, in cds in aoe do we spend combo points to envenom or crimson ?

[normal mist]

Yes

[balmy condor]

crimson tempest is a dot

spamming dot is not advised

[vestal geyser]

the good ol' days when you could spam it are gone

[normal mist]

Back when it had instant damage

[harsh anchor]

Spamming a dot means it does damage over time more right

Like spam it as a dot ticks to get an extra tick, ez

[balmy condor]

[runic hinge]

only devouring plague

[pliant remnant]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-i-am-going-insane-insane-gif-25031823

[normal mist]

[haughty flicker]

i cant find the "ring of the panoply" in the dungeon journal in game so take that how you will

[balmy condor]

kys

kiss yourself*

sorry

[haughty flicker]

[balmy condor]

that means I need to find another ring

gg

that's what I get for just speedrunning through the database I guess

[slim copper]

is it safe to assume that our builds wont be changing too much?

[normal mist]

Yes

[balmy condor]

not at all in fact

[vestal geyser]

its usually safe to assume that nothing will ever change for rogue

[balmy condor]

SHURE HALLS OF ATONEMENT RING

[vestal geyser]

number change sometimes

[balmy condor]

LOOKS GOOD TO MEEEEE

[hexed root]

my guild requires bis lists though, we need bis lists Whispyr. bis is bis is bis

https://tenor.com/view/math-meme-math-is-math-meme-mr-incredible-the-incredibles-the-incredibles2-gif-20591317

[orchid cedar]

which Mythic build is more likely to be played this patch? Bleed?

M+*

[normal mist]

Whispyr are you doing the "overall" bis or just the "dungeon" bis?

[vestal geyser]

yes

[bronze pike]

probably bleed

who knows

[balmy condor]

ask again in like 2 months when there's an actual m+ meta

[bronze pike]

wait til patch is live

[vestal geyser]

im calling it now

mage priest evoker

[haughty flicker]

https://tenor.com/view/squidward-daring-today-spongebob-spongebob-meme-daring-today-arent-we-gif-23808696

[normal mist]

You dummy that's not a rogue

[jaunty sky]

Mage priest boomie as always

[balmy condor]

hot take, I think vengeance might be good

[waxen oyster]

Basically gear is go for highest ilvl

[balmy condor]

sorry for being so controversial

[waxen oyster]

first month of the tier

[vestal geyser]

I know, I really like to use my imagination

[waxen oyster]

and i guess ritual forge hasnt gotten nerfbat to the face yet

so that item is good too

[orchid cedar]

S1 again, Frost DK mage evoker 🙂

[vestal geyser]

another hot take: hunter will be good 🤭

[waxen oyster]

Honestly

most players arent good enough to play at the level

[balmy condor]

but azor said they're like negative double ZZ tier

[waxen oyster]

that “meta” matters

[balmy condor]

what

hunters good? no way

that man would not lie

[waxen oyster]

does azor still wall his sims

behind patreon

[haughty flicker]

but meta = good and im good so i must play meta

[balmy condor]

idk probably

[hexed root]

aren't we all glued to maximum's stream right now? MM rng can out dps any other class, time to reroll hunter

[balmy condor]

I don't watch him

[orchid cedar]

sadly meta dictates if you get invited when going solo

[balmy condor]

so no

[waxen oyster]

No i dont watch wow streams

[haughty flicker]

i never watch max's stream outside of rwf so nah

[waxen oyster]

i watch whispyr have a meltdown periodically

[balmy condor]

sadly that's kinda on you for playing an MMO by yourself

[jaunty sky]

Just pug own key, always invited into that

[balmy condor]

you can't really decide to play a game that by definition is "massive multiplayer"

[haughty flicker]

i actually have a group to do keys with this season

for the first time ever

[waxen oyster]

Its kind of crazy to me people choose to play solo in a multiplayer game

[balmy condor]

and then be surprised when its "massive multiplayer"

[haughty flicker]

finally i get to see if its actually a fun game mode

[waxen oyster]

especially when there are infinitely better solo games

on the market

[jaunty sky]

@waxen oyster like what

[vestal geyser]

we dont decide to play wow, we're addicted, big difference

[jaunty sky]

Name 5 rn

[deft shard]

You can play solo but with people

[waxen oyster]

Any souls games

[proven willow]

You can outskill invites I’m a solo player and played the same spec for over a decade

[dawn pollen]

rdr2

[bronze pike]

we pray for brew meta

[vestal geyser]

whats a brewmaster

never heard of him

[proven willow]

Prot warriors are currently cracked

[slim copper]

stupid question. When are we able to run the droptimizer for wowaudit? Next week or week one of raid?

[balmy condor]

would need to figure out what the tier set does for that to be the case

[haughty flicker]

all they said was brew not brewmaster

you outed yourself nerd

[deft shard]

I got a friend a friend who was 8/8mm pretty early and hás a war arm, it was difficult for him to find groups

[vestal geyser]

[waxen oyster]

vdh meta provides infinite entertainment

[balmy condor]

tuesday technically but running a droptimizer before m+ grind sounds insanely stupid

[proven willow]

Well you just said my main spec class for over a decade so I’m calling skill issue loudly xd

[vestal geyser]

tbf he did say stupid question

[slim copper]

good thing i'm only kinda stupid

[balmy condor]

true

[deft shard]

That's literally ni skill issue he cant do more

[balmy condor]

like might as well do a droptimizer with the gear you have on now I guess idk

[slim copper]

so more like week 2 or 3 then

[sacred schooner]

isnt vdh super vulnurable on first pull?

[balmy condor]

why bother getting gear

[slim copper]

lmao ok got it

[deft shard]

Its just people who are stupid and look at tierlist and dont take people

[balmy condor]

I mean if you need a droptimizer for wowaudit

what you do is you run it 15 min before raid

[waxen oyster]

Only if you’re dumb

[proven willow]

I mean your friend is dumb for thinking 8/8 mythic with 0 io gets you into competitive keys

[deft shard]

Nah

I never said je was 0 io

[slim copper]

the question stems from me not knowing how droptimizer works under the hood

[proven willow]

You’re typing like he is

[slim copper]

thanks though! 🙂

[proven willow]

Raiding has nothing to do with keys

Not sure why that was flexed

[deft shard]

Like you can be 3k2

And people just dont care

Just a fact

[orchid cedar]

it is

[bronze pike]

true

true

true

[proven willow]

I pugged to 3.2k before visions came out so ur buddy has no excuse

[jaunty sky]

3.2k is all 15s right

[waxen oyster]

any vdh that jumps into the middle of a pack

deserves to get onetapped

[vestal geyser]

yeah that 2% damage buff from visions really made the dif for everyone after trying to get 3.2k

[proven willow]

16/14 more common for the easy/hard puggable keys

[vestal geyser]

[orchid cedar]

i guess you can pug with anything, if you are willing to wait hours searching for 1

[brave comet]

this 8/8M guild is filled with demons

[orchid cedar]

and praying for not an insta deplete

[deft shard]

Its hás nothing to do with him like me with assa i get more easily in keys than him just because of the class

[slim copper]

!fatebound

[proven willow]

That’s your opinion

[slim copper]

hmmmm

!fb

[prisma monolith]

Only changes for fatebound are macroing cold blood to kingsbane and vanishing during the cold blood buff during deathmark in order to double flip coins. Otherwise regular rotation, finishers on 5+

[deft shard]

?????

[dawn pollen]

read pin

[deft shard]

1/10 ragebait

[proven willow]

Get io early get into keys

[vestal geyser]

!pleasepleasepleasepleasemakefateboundgood

[proven willow]

Maybe you’re a new player

[vestal geyser]

didnt work

still sucks in aoe

[balmy condor]

I'm surprised !fb is a command

when the hell did I make that

[hexed root]

!bislist

[balmy condor]

must be some leftover from beta or some shit

[deft shard]

If you cant understand basic observation not my prob

[haughty flicker]

!whispyr

[waxen oyster]

How do people play the game

[haughty flicker]

i miss him

[waxen oyster]

and not add people good

[proven willow]

You have much bigger problems clearly it’s all good

[hexed root]

1 button rotation

[waxen oyster]

i dont invites mages when pugging tbh

shit is doing an unpaid boost

perma

[thorn thorn]

Mages and evokers get auto declined in my groups

[balmy condor]

https://imgur.com/d4eVfF6

[orchid cedar]

the fact that the meta settles into one specific spec disproves that you must get IO early. Ppl eventually reroll and get invited into keys easier with the "meta" classes

[vestal geyser]

anyone else see that 1 button is outperforming like 75% of people

[waxen oyster]

I mean

[balmy condor]

unsurprising

[thorn thorn]

Its not surprising at all

[waxen oyster]

have you seen average tank player

or dps players

[proven willow]

Do tanks have one buttons

[sacred schooner]

they do lol

[deft shard]

I tend to not invite ret players because ive never seen one with more that 1 finger in their hands

[normal mist]

Now they only need one

[balmy condor]

that's all you need for ret though

[waxen oyster]

if you play male human or male belf

thats an instant decline

imo

[thorn thorn]

What about male draenei

Kick from party?

[waxen oyster]

Yes

[haughty flicker]

idk male draenei is kind of based

[proven willow]

I named my ret pally Headlnjury for class fantasy

[haughty flicker]

pauldrons the size of kentucky

[waxen oyster]

thats orcs

[haughty flicker]

nah male draenei is even bigger

you just never see them to notice

[proven willow]

Orc has the best looking shoulders

[orchid cedar]

they don't have a based racial

[proven willow]

Fridge spec just awkward

[waxen oyster]

i mean brown orc racial

is kinda based now

[deft shard]

[normal mist]

Yep

[jaunty sky]

Best proportions is still kultiran

On male

[proven willow]

My favorite streamer told me to go dwarf

But I wanted to go Maghar

[waxen oyster]

most people dont play at a level to utilize nelf

[thorn thorn]

[waxen oyster]

mfs will say they need meld

while doing 15s

ok buddy

[hexed root]

https://tenor.com/view/senshi-delicious-in-dungeon-dungeon-meshi-anime-studio-trigger-gif-13377781023860006167

[haughty flicker]

ngl if they ever made nelf stealth animation not suck i think i'd play them

looks good otherwise, and their other animations are good

[vestal geyser]

i feel like 90% of the time if anyone needs the meld its the tank anyways

[waxen oyster]

dwarf is consistently hood its just

[haughty flicker]

but you slide along like fucking michael jackson or something while in stealth

[waxen oyster]

you look ass in most mogs

[sacred schooner]

so true nelf stealth just yuik

[thorn thorn]

Nelf for me has been a metronome of being greatful i have meld when i have shit tanks and being pissy when meld doesnt work when i have shit tanks

[sacred schooner]

esp male

[haughty flicker]

stealth like a kid rubbing their socks on the carpet

[waxen oyster]

why would you play male nelf

seek help

[proven willow]

This a big problem

[sacred schooner]

nah i'm good as human male, ty

[waxen oyster]

female nelf>>>male nelf

[vestal geyser]

human male is psychopathic behavior

why are you even playing a fantasy game

[waxen oyster]

also its not like dh has more than 2 race choices

so….

[normal mist]

Why can't we play human now

[proven willow]

Not true human male is full immersion

[normal mist]

It's good on mogs

[waxen oyster]

female human is good on mogs

[proven willow]

Vulpera however is psycho behavior

[haughty flicker]

as long as you stand perfectly still and never move

[orchid cedar]

imma say leather mogs are the weakest of all armor types

[waxen oyster]

human female falling animation

sucks

[vestal geyser]

thats true for every race tbh

[normal mist]

You just need good cooks

[haughty flicker]

nah female belf animations are good enough

[vestal geyser]

the clipping is just getting worse and worse

[haughty flicker]

human male though

[waxen oyster]

leather mogs are good wfym

[haughty flicker]

oh clipping is a seperate issue

[waxen oyster]

just wear t3

[haughty flicker]

im just talking animations specifically

belf does have really bad clipping issues sometimes

like any time pants have like a flared coat bottom

[waxen oyster]

I mean i usually wear t3 or legion elite on rogue

[haughty flicker]

your hands perma clip

[waxen oyster]

when im not cooking a custom

[proven willow]

You should see the new chess set from trader on my Tauren rogue

[vestal geyser]

its pretty bad already on my female belf rogue

[normal mist]

I tried to cook something during the afternoon but it is still in the oven

[waxen oyster]

also im guilty of being biased

and trying to get mugzee plate legs

on every color

[proven willow]

I want to say 20% of it is clipped on the Tauren. Goes pretty hard

[vestal geyser]

ouch

[vestal geyser]

i would love it if hair didnt clip through clothes

[normal mist]

I can't find good shoulders

[vestal geyser]

but ig thats why they make you bald

on every hat

[haughty flicker]

my recent mog ruined by clipping

good times

[waxen oyster]

Yeah velf has a goated heritage

[normal mist]

A shame the wings come from the chestpiece

[waxen oyster]

Yeah

velf is just belf but better

[vestal geyser]

the worst offender for me is the legs clipping through the spring dress

its atrocious

im gonna see if i can find it

[waxen oyster]

i really wish the sepulcher dh boots didnt have a white component @normal mist

ruined me trying to make some red yellow mogs with it

[normal mist]

It's almost always the boots

[waxen oyster]

trying with no luck

for antorus normal shoes

ermm

aberrus

though its super weird how like half their sets

have a red+yellow color scheme

[haughty flicker]

its always the boots

[normal mist]

Fucking boots

[wooden timber]

do male elves have a bad reputation

[waxen oyster]

time to play troll-

[normal mist]

Draeneis were right all along

[waxen oyster]

Yes

[haughty flicker]

a lot of red/yellow or fel green(obviously)

[wooden timber]

i just play male chars by default and 2 people in my guild told me i dont have to play male elf

[haughty flicker]

but i really like it

[wooden timber]

oh ok

[haughty flicker]

because it makes it easy to match stuff between tiers

[waxen oyster]

basically

then again alot of dk sets are blue with skulls

[wooden timber]

i swapped my velf back to dwarf now that ill never fight mugzee again but my dh is still a male elf

[vestal geyser]

these black parts are the pants

[wooden timber]

is it just because the type of people who play them are weird guys

[vestal geyser]

clipping through the fucking dress

[wooden timber]

or because ugly

[vestal geyser]

what the fuck

[waxen oyster]

probably

only male race i play is orc sometimes

zug zug

put on the icc gimp mask and nothing else

[wooden timber]

i just wear hats that cover my face anyway

[waxen oyster]

then be top dam

[haughty flicker]

male gnome

[waxen oyster]

[haughty flicker]

[vestal geyser]

I would love to wear the summer hats

[waxen oyster]

its actually wild

[vestal geyser]

if they didnt get rid of the hair

[waxen oyster]

how many male gnome warriors exist

due to some pvp streamers saying

its good

[haughty flicker]

funnily enough when i first started playing my warrior was a gnome

not because of any streamer but because fury warrior gnome with 2 armageddons was funny

[waxen oyster]

they drag across the floor

[haughty flicker]

but also this is peak performance so i get it

[waxen oyster]

the fact you can look like that

as any class

[reef ginkgo]

are we dooming boys

[waxen oyster]

and blizz still decides mog restrictions

[jaunty sky]

Gnome rogue BiS

[dreamy rover]

dudes

[pliant remnant]

?

[fallow canopy]

fit check

[vestal geyser]

thats just

[brave comet]

assassination really doesnt care about ping as much

[vestal geyser]

the valdraken clothes right?

[haughty flicker]

should probably get those bandages clean

[thorn thorn]

Doesnt that dress have open parts on the sides

[fallow canopy]

its thematic

[thorn thorn]

And there are pants that specifically go with them

[haughty flicker]

yes

the places you can see the pants there are just open normally

[waxen oyster]

Just go black trenchcoat

[vestal geyser]

I literally just discovered this

[waxen oyster]

so i can flame you for being basic

[vestal geyser]

i always thought it was just clipping

i kept like cycling through in a panic trying to figure out hhow to not get that to happen

turns out, the pants needed to come off

[thorn thorn]

Yea they just have the sides open

[haughty flicker]

ye people were really mad at first when those dresses came out

[thorn thorn]

There is a set of pants that specifically goes with htem

[haughty flicker]

because it was before you could hide pants

[thorn thorn]

And it just "closes" the side

[haughty flicker]

so it just looked like shit

[waxen oyster]

Why do they bother designing evoker tier sets

its the biggest waste of time

[thorn thorn]

For the visage form that will clearly be visible

[haughty flicker]

they go hard too

is the worst part

[waxen oyster]

i dont think they ever will allow evokers

[haughty flicker]

like 90% of evoker tier sets are great

[waxen oyster]

to play in visage

[haughty flicker]

and you never get to see them

[tawny mango]

hows assa doing for the upcoming raid? i know it does sick dmg in m+

[thorn thorn]

what they can do is make the tmog for dracthyr not ass

[waxen oyster]

buddy thats a tall ask

for a company that cant even design hair and helmets

[vestal geyser]

hard to say without knowing the final tuning

[haughty flicker]

the other funny part is that while the evoker tier sets are normally great, they seem to intentionally make them not match any of the barbershop armors for dragon form

so even the good shoulders/belts you cant use

[waxen oyster]

Yeah that shit is annoying to me

[tawny mango]

I understand but based on current tuning, how does assa (or rog in general if another spec is better) for raiding?

[haughty flicker]

it'll definitely be there

[waxen oyster]

always gonna be relevant due to atrophic

[thorn thorn]

There is no seem about it

[jaunty sky]

Someone has to play it

[thorn thorn]

Of all the set bonuses evoker has gotten the one from aberrus actually matches the dracthyr armors

[pliant remnant]

It's okay

[vestal geyser]

looks like whispyr is getting a paragraph ready for you

[haughty flicker]

im hoping for a new pin

i love when we get new pins

it awakens something in me

[pliant remnant]

Same

[thorn thorn]

Chat flood this guys pings with the fotm ping

[pliant remnant]

Harbouring a stiffy as we speak

Can't wait

[waxen oyster]

when has rogue been bad in raid

[waxen oyster]

honestly

[vestal geyser]

my body is ready

[thorn thorn]

Chat

Doom approaches

[pliant remnant]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/124251543334551553/1091354935104380948/cute_cat_story.gif

[proven willow]

what if hes just holding down the same letter

[vestal geyser]

its actually just his cat

[jaunty sky]

Cat on keyboard

[hallow glade]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-leaf-vibes-vibing-sleeping-cat-gif-17297041570420202318

[proven willow]

60 second internal monologue speedrun

[thorn thorn]

https://tenor.com/view/piano-piano-on-fire-man-playing-piano-fire-gif-18619744

[jaunty sky]

https://tenor.com/view/fire-writing-gif-24533171

[vestal geyser]

https://tenor.com/view/coinmetro-gif-8173034472085665867

[proven willow]

maybe hes typing the bislist pin

[vestal geyser]

YT I was here chat

[shy heron]

Maybe he's typing some long ass reply to a comment from 2015 but you don't know until it hits

[thorn thorn]

Maybe he eepy and fell asleep on the keyboard

He do be working very hard on the apl and wowhead

[hallow glade]

https://tenor.com/view/hatsune-miku-kasane-teto-bubble-gif-8473005348688012517

[pliant remnant]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/603866634490347530/960401358127792228/emit38.gif

[marsh fjord]

Guys how long is whipyr typing

[thorn thorn]

Its been 10 minutes at least

[balmy condor]

Wowhead Guide is up to date for Season 3

There are some database issues that are causing broken tooltips/item links. This will fix itself tuesday when the database moves over to the 11.2 version.

There are very few changes overall, and fatebound is basically the same but just 45s kb/1:30 dm, and some minor sequencing differences.

As per usual if you see something confusing/off, please do not hesitate to ping me so I can clarify or resolve the issue. At the end of the day, it's a very long guide, and I'm not capable of understanding where people will struggle to understand the concepts. The guide is for you, not me, and so I will need your help to make the guide the best it can be. I appreciate it.

Sims
Sims are not live yet, and raidbots is on a freeze until the patch goes out. When the patch is live on Tuesday, raidbots will update and I will have pushed all the sim updates along with it.

I'm still working on sims probably until the very end. Blizzard being very behind on tuning and bug fixes has in turn made the TC/Sim updates very behind as well.

I'm trying to hit all the points but frankly with how bad trinket tuning is and the fact that there are still bugs (notably KB on fatebound, which should have been fixed already but whatever), there will undeniably be stuff that will not be 100% perfect. I am aware of this fact, and that's just how it has to be. Raid sims will be far more accurate and I have faith in single target stuff, but with the actual insane amount of m+ builds and situations people want to sim all of those builds in, it's unrealisitc to ever be 100% accurate for everything. Be aware of this and as per usual, use the sims as a tool to make educated decisions, not ultimate truth.

Overall, thank you for your patience through this absolute dogshit mess of a patch cycle. If/when new things are found later, I will try my best to keep the pins updated and update the wowhead guide as fast as possible to reflect the changes, but the next 2 weeks are guaranteed to be a disaster. We are barreling full speed into a patch that is simply not ready, brace yourself and stay alert.

[pliant remnant]

[marsh fjord]

[hexed root]

Fuu's latest sims are exciting from today

[hallow glade]

[thorn thorn]

"We are barreling full speed into a patch that is simply not ready, brace yourself and stay alert."

Truer words have never been spoken

[balmy condor]

5.2

did he get his hands on an apl

[hexed root]

including last updated in ss

[balmy condor]

wait

he has an updated APL but it's from like a week ago

[proven willow]

i see something off as well

[balmy condor]

wait no it is updated

where the fuck did he get this from

[proven willow]

looks like theft to me

lock him up

[thorn thorn]

Bro is after the ptr APL like plankton is after the secret formula

Actual cartoon villain

[balmy condor]

bro someone leaked an APL

I'm gonna find them

I specifically wanted this to NOT happen

this isn't ok

[dawn pollen]

https://tenor.com/view/facts-factos-gif-24924684

[vast pond]

I figured those were outdated. They've been up all day.

[balmy condor]

I mean I have higher

but this APL is very recent

and there's only like 3 people including me who have had access

so someone fucked up

[dawn pollen]

was about to ask dosn't 5.2 seem low or are we just in the lower range xD

[thorn thorn]

Bring them before us

We shall throw stones and chant for their execution like old times

[humble verge]

noway

new pin

[brave comet]

i just got kicked out of a myth rik group cause im not doing "enough add damage" when we're getting to second intermission and not being able to kill the boss

[humble verge]

wait wtf

[vast pond]

I'm still surprised how low the m+ sims are, especially since we've seen how much it is cranking on PTR. Guess it's harder to sim for that though.

[humble verge]

fatebound is 45s kb and 1m30 dm?

[dawn pollen]

pugs xD

[jaunty sky]

Skill issue should hold cds for barrels

[humble verge]

fatebound is sub timers?

[brave comet]

next season ye

[dawn pollen]

yes you can make it 90sec spec

[haughty flicker]

https://tenor.com/view/fail-fall-no-trust-lesson-gif-5578096

[humble verge]

just boost

[balmy condor]

the number dungeonslice spits out is irrelevant

[humble verge]

pogar

[balmy condor]

dungeonslice is a set of situations that mimic a dungeon

not an actual dungeon

the number at the end of the day means nothing

it's about the comparison between things

[vestal geyser]

Did you send them this

[hexed root]

whats wrong with it?

[jaunty sky]

!richard

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923750073499648/1356363029951938700/image.png?ex=67ec4b02&is=67eaf982&hm=0780c2bf8a3eda7b622f455daac5267c32f3074f79ab55d181e8de68faf2a64e&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

[humble verge]

why are Mads Mikkelsen movies so based

[vast pond]

You just answered the question I was about to ask. Thanks.

[balmy condor]

what's wrong is that fuu has an APL that should not be public

[brave comet]

nah, they just said "they're pruning the bad players" and kicked me out first

[balmy condor]

which means fuu should not have it

which means someone gave it to him

[hexed root]

why shouldn't it be public?

[balmy condor]

and it wasn't me

[humble verge]

also

[hexed root]

just curious

[humble verge]

how are people struggling on rik

last week

😭

[haughty flicker]

its still being actively worked on

[balmy condor]

because it's unfinished PTR sims

[hexed root]

completely ignorant on the APL/PTR/Timings/etc stuff

[jaunty sky]

You dont want ppl critiquing your food before its done

[hexed root]

even though it's unfinished wouldn't that just means it'll get updated again?

[balmy condor]

PTR sims are bait misinformation

[brave comet]

thats what it is, theyre i think WR 2300, theyre just not great

[hexed root]

i like the disclaimer

[balmy condor]

yeah you're pretty naive for thinking anyone gives a shit about that disclaimer

ngl

[humble verge]

on gally..?

[hexed root]

I mean

[brave comet]

no rik

[hexed root]

there's a sim

based of WIP stuff

so it's accurate based off what we currently have

and will update again when it's more solidified

whats the issue?

[balmy condor]

okay so if you're baking a cake, right

and I give you an uncooked cake batter

it's accurate based off what I currently have

[haughty flicker]

i dont really like cake all that much

[dawn pollen]

he is about to cook

[balmy condor]

but you're not eating it

cause ITS NOT A FUCKING CAKE

[hexed root]

sure?

[thorny rain]

I might eat it, cake batter is good

[hexed root]

I'm watching it in the oven waiting for it to be finished

[thorn thorn]

But are you gonna eat the cake batter

[balmy condor]

collectively as a community, people have decided they cannot handle that responsibility

[haughty flicker]

i might

[hexed root]

why would I eat the cake batter? It's not the final product. It's cool to see the progress

[vestal geyser]

there are a lot of people who would eat the batter

in this analogy

[balmy condor]

yeah it's not about how cool it is to see the progress

[ionic kiln]

People will eat the cake batter and then shit all over complaining.

[balmy condor]

it's about not spreading raw misinfo about how a spec is performing

[humble verge]

jaha

[hexed root]

i can kinda see your point

if people just blindly accept what's posted as fact that's on them imo

[balmy condor]

like there's so many dipshits that make a PTR sheet or a tier list or spread some out of context screenshot of a sim

and go

[hexed root]

there's a disclaimer, we're on PTR, nothing is live yet, of course it's subject to change

[balmy condor]

LOOOK

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOK

LOOK

[thorn thorn]

The problem is most of the community does this

[thorny rain]

So do we have cake batter or no?

[thorn thorn]

A verifiably low % of people actually look at the disclaimer

Or give a shit about it

[hexed root]

that sounds like a them problem

[orchid cedar]

even if it's not finished, you can still figure out if you will like it or not right?

[balmy condor]

you posted this twice in like 5 minutes I'll mute your ass

[haughty flicker]

if we compare sims to cookies this whole analogy kind of falls apart

[hexed root]

that's good wording

[vestal geyser]

I'll give you some cake batter if you want

[humble verge]

wait did i

[summer trellis]

https://tenor.com/view/fish-fish-eating-eating-gif-19692552

[humble verge]

i didnt even see

[summer trellis]

me eating the cake batter

[humble verge]

man its 3am

cut me some slack

[balmy condor]

what does this even mean

[brave comet]

LMAO

[haughty flicker]

i dont have the ability to look at cake batter and decide if i'll enjoy the cake, no

[vestal geyser]

my cake batter is a little bitter tho

[thorn thorn]

Its actually the TCs problem since they have to deal with people spreading and asking about misinformation

[hexed root]

everyone just @ fuu about it, solved.

[balmy condor]

like what does seeing a sim that's bad and wrong do for you that's so important you need it weeks before the actual content comes out

[balmy condor]

no, that's not solved

[haughty flicker]

it helps me reroll

[hexed root]

i mean this problem is solved

[balmy condor]

no it's not

[thorn thorn]

?

[balmy condor]

cause fuu isn't the assa TC

he doesn't do any assa things

I do

and he just gave me a fucking migraine

[hexed root]

then where are your sims?!

D:

[balmy condor]

I thought I just explained this

you cannot be this dense

[thorn thorn]

Bro is either rage baiting or dumb

[hexed root]

i need a bis list to submit to readycheck asap

im dense

[thorn thorn]

Let me rephrase my statement then

[hexed root]

it's a problem, legit dense

[thorn thorn]

Its actually Whispyrs problem since he has to deal with people spreading misinformation and asking about it

[hexed root]

i think i've always gone to fuu's spreadsheet for sims, not sure where others are

[balmy condor]

raidbots.com

[cursive root]

yo i watched the whispyr video and i didnt get 13 in a row flips wtf

[balmy condor]

sim yourself

[hexed root]

can't whispyr just make a pin? "fuu's spreadsheet isn't accurate yet"

[jaunty sky]

Pick 4 tier slots with mastery and other gear with mastery, forge and another good trinket

Done

[haughty flicker]

people famously read pins

[thorn thorn]

Nobody is going to look at it or care

And if you think even for a second it will change anything

[balmy condor]

that wouldn't help because in my eyes it's ALWAYS inaccurate

[thorn thorn]

You are unfortunately extremely delusional to how the wow community functions

[hexed root]

oh 100% I'm never claiming I did.

[balmy condor]

my version of that pin would be "never open fuu's spreadsheet"

[hexed root]

I said I was extremely naive on it

[balmy condor]

but there's obviously some shit stirring that would happen if I did that

he's welcome to make his spreadsheet and show off whatever numbers he pleases

but I don't agree that it is 1. useful or 2. informational

especially in a PTR setting

[orchid cedar]

i mean, anyone with half a brain can figure out that sims are not real data, but you can still get info from them

[balmy condor]

when the patch isn't out yet

[orchid cedar]

i think

[harsh anchor]

sim is gospel

[balmy condor]

that's not what 90% of the community does

[harsh anchor]

especially ptr sim

[thorn thorn]

If they are not real data then what info can be gotten from them

[dawn pollen]

I love following new seasons arguments xD its so entertaining im just glad im not whispyr have to deal and answer it all

[harsh anchor]

sims damaged the brain of the community

change my mind

[dawn pollen]

sims are 98% useless

[thorn thorn]

I cant because you are correct

[hexed root]

it's real based off the current information, and it will be updated when it changes, just stuck on that i guess

[orchid cedar]

it's a simulation, how do you think science works?

[thorn thorn]

Not an answer

What info can be gotten from them

That is useful

Outside of "oh they are doing this much damage"

[harsh anchor]

bis list

[hexed root]

its like, never make a sim or theorycraft because of the chance of buffs/nerfs since we're never in a "final" state of the game

thats bad wording

but yea

[vestal geyser]

thats not

it at all

you've completely missed it

[hexed root]

its definitely an extreme

[orchid cedar]

if we sim an ST fight, and one class does half the dmg of the other one, with the most basic set up, you can draw some conclusions

isn not rocket science

[vestal geyser]

so it is rocket science?

[balmy condor]

like trust me, if it wasn't a nightmare, I would be streaming my APL adventures instead of sitting in a dark room for hours, that's what I used to do. I used to stream them all the time, hours of sitting there, full vods of just raidbots testing, and people crowdsourced ideas and stuff, it was nice

[harsh anchor]

LMAO

[balmy condor]

but people cannot be trusted with that anymore

[runic hinge]

Assa always sims low and yet we havent been down bad in a while

[thorn thorn]

But its not indicative of the live version of the game if its from PTR data

[hexed root]

let those people be the victims of their actions?

[balmy condor]

the community as a whole is simply not intelligent or responsbile enough to handle that

[thorn thorn]

And anybody doing PTR testing will see thats the case

So what use does it provide outside of telling us something we would already know

[runic hinge]

[balmy condor]

I cannot in good faith do that and I think that's pretty obvious

[vestal geyser]

the problem is that its a huge headache for people like whispyr

[dawn pollen]

rip us

[hexed root]

you obviously don't view them in high regard, so why stress yourself over it?

[thorn thorn]

Because he still has to deal with it bro

[orchid cedar]

the use is as feedback for the team to look into it, it doesn't matter for the player that's waiting for the patch, but it's mandatory for the devs

[balmy condor]

like if I stream the entire process, and say 100 people look at it and go "cool" and accept that PTR sims suck and don't do anything and don't make bad assumptions

there are still going to be 5000 people that do

[thorn thorn]

The devs will not look at sims they will look at pure ptr data

[orchid cedar]

we shouldn't care until the product is finished but ppl can have opinions regardless

[thorn thorn]

The sims are entirely useless info for them

[runic hinge]

devs are not using raidbot sims

[balmy condor]

so I'm basically feeding people just raw dogshit that confuse the shit out of people

for a tiny tiny minority

it's simply not worth it

[hexed root]

i get not feeding them stuff

[orchid cedar]

i mean is like that shitting on a plate meme that says, "how do you know is shit if it isn't out yet?"

[hard river]

just play a spec no one cares about (outlaw) so all tc numbers and stuff is just for funsies

[vestal geyser]

https://tenor.com/view/kuzhi-vettu-arya-sarpatta-parambarai-movie-heroes-gif-gif-4636062412279361150

[balmy condor]

and the problem is when fuu's sheet updates, its well known enough to propagate out to a mass of bad actors

at the end of the day, I don't give a shit about what fuu does

[bronze pike]

its kinda sad isnt it

cause like

streaming apl stuff used to be more common place

during the start

[balmy condor]

but fuu's sheet is problematic for me because there are many clowns in the background

[bronze pike]

of sim era

[balmy condor]

that will make slop

using it

[bronze pike]

but like now people are demons with that info

[hexed root]

just reply to anyone asking stupid questions based off incomplete data with a screenshot of the disclaimer

[balmy condor]

you wanna do that for me

and go around into other discords

doing that for me?

[bronze pike]

i mean imma be real

[humble verge]

no whyspir

[bronze pike]

i do that sometimes

[humble verge]

ok listen to me

[balmy condor]

can answer all the dms

[bronze pike]

and tell people this is shit

[humble verge]

when you wanna confuse anyone

just send them this mp4

[bronze pike]

when it appears in other discords

[hexed root]

have chat gpt make a disc bot

[bronze pike]

but like

its stil lcrazy

[harsh anchor]

ooo hire some minions to do that for you

there's some lackies here that would love that

I bet

[humble verge]

and then dont respond to them anymore

[runic hinge]

I think you underestimate the amount of people who come in here and type !fuu and nothing else and leave

[hexed root]

if someone is making shit off PTR sims they're just baiting/making bad content anyway

[bronze pike]

i want a special color name

[balmy condor]

yes

[bronze pike]

if i do it

[haughty flicker]

[balmy condor]

that is the issue

that is exactly the problem

[bronze pike]

basically every content creator now

[balmy condor]

and there's legit DOZENS of them

[hexed root]

so let them fail?

[restive falcon]

fatebound

[balmy condor]

they don't fail

[bronze pike]

they dont fail

[thorn thorn]

they dont fail

[bronze pike]

jinx you owe me a soda

[balmy condor]

where is your logical break here

what are you not getting

[hexed root]

i cant think of how to word it

i dont get why you're trying to be a parent to the idiots

[bronze pike]

its like

[balmy condor]

these people have built a platform on doing this

[hexed root]

yea, and they suck

call em out on it

[bronze pike]

the community is to stupid and the plateform is to big to fail

[harsh anchor]

Nothing will change tho

[hexed root]

"yea, that was an idiot on old data, here's the right data"

[bronze pike]

you have streamer tanks saying absolute misinfo

[vestal geyser]

i just dont understand what you're still arguing about dude

[bronze pike]

and theyre minions will dm tank tcers syaing slurs and shit

[vestal geyser]

your whole argument is for him to fix it

and he has

[bronze pike]

cause they said something different from the almight streamer

[vestal geyser]

by not releasing early numbers

[hexed root]

im just dense and replying, im not telling anyone to fix anything

[vestal geyser]

and you just keep arguing

[balmy condor]

when you say "right data", you realize that they've been making PTR sheets since PTR opened right

[hexed root]

im saying let people deal with the consequences of their actions

[bronze pike]

theres no fix

[vestal geyser]

because its not fixed the way YOU want it fixed

[hexed root]

and don't stress over people bringing stuff to you, that you didn't produce

[bronze pike]

all ptr info is irrelevant

[hexed root]

^

[bronze pike]

unless you personally have a handle on this shit

or get to hear people personally rant about apl stuff

like me

but like

thats unrealistic

[runic hinge]

you mean youtubers making weekly ptr tierlists based on weird sims and their audeinces using that to shape community perception which has been going on for years

[balmy condor]

the disconnect here is you're asking me to correct misguided people or let people be misinformed

[bronze pike]

and people will still believe the slkop they want to believe from content creators over actual math and work

[balmy condor]

when I could just

not make things public in the first place

and avoid all of this

[bronze pike]

the only way to win is not play

[hexed root]

im not, i was saying to ignore them if they cause you headaches

[bronze pike]

thats why alot specs dont post sim info

[balmy condor]

they would still be misinformed

[bronze pike]

and thats why any spreadsheet involving sim stuff is inheritly inaccurate and wrong

[balmy condor]

also "just ignore them" is kinda rich

[vestal geyser]

https://tenor.com/view/digg-digging-timbertramps-patchan-gif-5022752873029185193

[bronze pike]

cause they probably grabbed what ever sim they could fine even if its a meme one

[balmy condor]

cause what, you want me to just close my dms

or how is that gonna work

block all pings

leave all other discords

[bronze pike]

a good example is like havoc last season, where they made a meme one where you only spam chaos strike and it ended up on izens spreadsheet

it was

a funny time

[hexed root]

if you're annoyed by people bringing other peoples stuff to you, i would just have something prepped to deal with it

i wouldn't be trying to fix the whole community

[balmy condor]

okay

but why would I go through that effort

[vestal geyser]

thats more work thats exactly the point

[balmy condor]

of prepping something

[hexed root]

the same way when you always refer to pins when people bring that shit up

[balmy condor]

to deal with it

[vestal geyser]

you are telling him to do more shit

when he could just

not

[hexed root]

how do you deal with it now?

[balmy condor]

you're coming up with solutions to a problem that I can simply avoid

[hexed root]

im telling him not to deal with it

[thorn thorn]

Your statements are advice for people not in a position like whispyr is and dont have a form of responsibility in the community to uphold in trying to propagate useful information about the spec.

What you are saying is just pure delusion that any of this would work

[humble verge]

hey guys lets use some PTR data and information to create my biased views on how to think that this class and spec will somehow win over all other specs because the data says so - surely it WONT change after ive made this post/video, but just know that if you try to oppose me, youre a stinky poopyhead

[haughty flicker]

https://tenor.com/view/flashbang-gif-22572243

[bronze pike]

only way to win is not play

this guy was hardignored and buried in felhammer

we should do that too

[thorn thorn]

Correct

Do not make info public

[hexed root]

as of the 3rd of august 2025, we're simming more then sub :3

[haughty flicker]

can i get jiggy

[balmy condor]

you actually piss me off

[vestal geyser]

big youtubers headline: "SUB CONFIRMED BEST ROGUE SPEC IN 11.2!!!!!!!!!"

[hexed root]

I'm sorry I care 🙁

[humble verge]

he is blue actively hating blue

[balmy condor]

how you feel is irrelevant to the issue

[frozen glacier]

too many bunnies not enough garfs

[runic hinge]

[haughty flicker]

[thorn thorn]

[haughty flicker]

someone glarf for me please

i miss him

[runic hinge]

[humble verge]

❗

[jaunty sky]

Anyways, i hope you find out where that apl came from whispyr, thank you losing your sanity wvery few months for us

[humble verge]

apl

what

[balmy condor]

I already found it and dm'd them

[runic hinge]

what sanity

[balmy condor]

it's been corrected in the future

[bronze pike]

based